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ELEVATION
03-22-2010, 02:52 AM
TRADES-

Please dont tell me trades(or madden trades) wont happen during the draft, we pulled numerous trades in the draft last year to move up spots and all the ones below are equal value across the board...

Denver Trades Pick 11, and 2011 4th rd pick to San Francisco for pick 13 and 3rd rd pick(79)- San Francisco Desperately needs Cb and Safety Help.....at 14both haden and Earl Thomas could be gone. With pick 11 San francisco has the chance to draft Earl Thomas or Joe haden..elite talents for their secondary for the small cost of their 3rd rd pick.

Denver Trades Sheffler to Carolina for 4th rd pick(110)- With sheffler on the outs, MCD deals sheff to a team that needs a field stretching threat besides steve smith, gives matt moore another dangerous catching threat, who has improved his blocking over the past year.

Denver Trades its own 3rd rd pick(79) and the 4th rd pick(110) from Carolina to Indy for their 2nd rd pick(63)


And yes i still have marshall as a bronco next year!!!!!


DRAFT-

1(13) DE JARED ODRICK- Denver needs a youth injection on the DL, outside of Marcus thomas and Chris baker the guys are up there in age and tenure. Jarvis green is not a full time 3-4 RDE, Odrick would be able to step into the rotation on day 1 and be a factor from the Rt side

2(45) C JD WALTON- we have no reall center options on our roster, and Walton should be able to step in day 1 as a starter, would provide a lunchpail mentaily and road grader for us for years, he would go along ways to solidfying our OL

2(63) OL VLADIMIR DUCASSE- We lack effective depth at guard and tackle, Duccase is exactly the type of Ol we want tough, physical, powerful and versatile, he would not only give us depth at Guard, but he can back-up tackle as well. We saw the issue we had last year when harris went down.

3(80) WR ANDRE ROBERTS- Depsite the small school the guy is a great athlete, his stock is on the rise after being the best WR at the senior bowl. He has field stretching ability and good speed, he would not only give our Corps anotehr viable weapon, but he would provide the deep threat we lack in this offense, great route runner, with great hands, and good seperation ability, also provide punt return ability....avg 15 yds last year

4(112)RB MONTARIO HARDESTY- Arrignton is a unknown, Bucky is injury prone and Knowshon could use help. Hardesty would be a good compliment to knowshon, we do need RB depth and hardesty is a very tough, N/S runner capable of getting tough yards

6(176) LB MICAH JOHNSON- Another Kentucky backer, with a tough, lunchpail work ethic, would provide Solid depth at the TED position behind haggan and Larsen in case of injury. Its unknow who will fill the void left by davis but we have only 1 FB in larsen so depth is needed inside.

7(205) FB MATT CLAP- a outstanding blocker, would free larsen up a bit for more LB duty if need, provides depth at a position where only 1 FB exists who isnt even a full time FB....would do wonders for our RB's in the new power scheme MCd wants to run.


Have at it folks im sure criticism will abound.....

The Joker
03-22-2010, 04:03 AM
I'd have no problems whatsoever with that draft, nice work.

Only issue is that I don't think a power back is what we need to compliment Moreno at all. What we need is a speed back, someone who gives us the big play capability that I think Moreno lacks. Moreno can be the 15-20 carries a game guy who does the short yardage and goalline work, what he needs as a compliment is a speedster.

Buckhalter hopefully has another year left in him, maybe Arrington will step up... but they're both big question marks.

If we add a RB I'd rather it be Jahvid Best or Joe McKnight.

ELEVATION
03-22-2010, 04:28 AM
I'd have no problems whatsoever with that draft, nice work.

Only issue is that I don't think a power back is what we need to compliment Moreno at all. What we need is a speed back, someone who gives us the big play capability that I think Moreno lacks. Moreno can be the 15-20 carries a game guy who does the short yardage and goalline work, what he needs as a compliment is a speedster.

Buckhalter hopefully has another year left in him, maybe Arrington will step up... but they're both big question marks.

If we add a RB I'd rather it be Jahvid Best or Joe McKnight.

Thanks,


Im counting on arrignton for that role hopefully. im also basing the need for a power back off MCD's lack of using hillis last year becasue of no FB on the roster when larsen went down....I do belive we need a legit power back. I alos belive he thinks that as well, especilly since our 2 private Workouts for Rb's so far have been hardesty and gerhart and there are rumours of Dixon coming in as well(nothing confirmed yet)

I would have no problem with a speed back but the top 2 are rd 1 picks and i just cant justify that right now...i could see a guy like Mccluster being used for a speed back role maybe 8 touches a game....but the reality i belive is that Moreno will be the starter/Bucky will back him up/arrignton will be our third down back,speed back/and a back from the draft would be goalline, power short situations etc..


In most cases you dont select a rb in rd 1 or 2 if you only expect him to get 10 touches a game for the so called speed role, and while bucky is injury prone and arrington is a unknown, i just dont see the 1-2 rd speed back happening...

I agree with MUG that both best and spilelr are being overated a bit becasue of the chris johnson love...but he is a absolute rarity for his size and speed and durability combo....

s0phr0syne
03-22-2010, 05:31 AM
Like all the players picked a lot. Even without the trade, I think you'd get a good haul, so I like that aspect of your mock. Most trade mocks fall apart without their hypothesized transactions.

Do you think that Hardesty will last until the 4th? I've been really impressed watching him through the season. Thought he shows a lot of skills as an RB, and even though I can see where people might say he doesn't bring anything "unique" to the backfield, he does have great all around skills. His combine times were pretty good, to boot.

I don't know much about Micah Johnson, will have to read up on him a bit.

ELEVATION
03-22-2010, 05:41 AM
Like all the players picked a lot. Even without the trade, I think you'd get a good haul, so I like that aspect of your mock. Most trade mocks fall apart without their hypothesized transactions.

Do you think that Hardesty will last until the 4th? I've been really impressed watching him through the season. Thought he shows a lot of skills as an RB, and even though I can see where people might say he doesn't bring anything "unique" to the backfield, he does have great all around skills. His combine times were pretty good, to boot.

I don't know much about Micah Johnson, will have to read up on him a bit.

it will be interesting right now i dont belive he is in rd 3 value territory by most scouts...it seems that tate, starks have the most rd 3 hype with maybe all purpose mccluster in there as well....i do belive he could easily go in rd 3, but im feeling rd 4 is where his target is....but if we didnt get hardesty i would have no problem with a guy like Dixon...

Broncoman13
03-22-2010, 05:48 AM
What happened to our #13 pick?

Broncoman13
03-22-2010, 05:53 AM
TRADES-

Please dont tell me trades(or madden trades) wont happen during the draft, we pulled numerous trades in the draft last year to move up spots and all the ones below are equal value across the board...

Denver Trades Pick 11, and 2011 4th rd pick to San Francisco for pick 13 and 3rd rd pick(79)- San Francisco Desperately needs Cb and Safety Help.....at 14both haden and Earl Thomas could be gone. With pick 11 San francisco has the chance to draft Earl Thomas or Joe haden..elite talents for their secondary for the small cost of their 3rd rd pick.

Denver Trades Sheffler to Carolina for 4th rd pick(110)- With sheffler on the outs, MCD deals sheff to a team that needs a field stretching threat besides steve smith, gives matt moore another dangerous catching threat, who has improved his blocking over the past year.

Denver Trades its own 3rd rd pick(79) and the 4th rd pick(110) from Carolina to Indy for their 2nd rd pick(63)


And yes i still have marshall as a bronco next year!!!!!


DRAFT-

1(14) DE JARED ODRICK- Denver needs a youth injection on the DL, outside of Marcus thomas and Chris baker the guys are up there in age and tenure. Jarvis green is not a full time 3-4 RDE, Odrick would be able to step into the rotation on day 1 and be a factor from the Rt side

2(45) C JD WALTON- we have no reall center options on our roster, and Walton should be able to step in day 1 as a starter, would provide a lunchpail mentaily and road grader for us for years, he would go along ways to solidfying our OL

2(63) OL VLADIMIR DUCASSE- We lack effective depth at guard and tackle, Duccase is exactly the type of Ol we want tough, physical, powerful and versatile, he would not only give us depth at Guard, but he can back-up tackle as well. We saw the issue we had last year when harris went down.

3(80) WR ANDRE ROBERTS- Depsite the small school the guy is a great athlete, his stock is on the rise after being the best WR at the senior bowl. He has field stretching ability and good speed, he would not only give our Corps anotehr viable weapon, but he would provide the deep threat we lack in this offense, great route runner, with great hands, and good seperation ability, also provide punt return ability....avg 15 yds last year

4(112)RB MONTARIO HARDESTY- Arrignton is a unknown, Bucky is injury prone and Knowshon could use help. Hardesty would be a good compliment to knowshon, we do need RB depth and hardesty is a very tough, N/S runner capable of getting tough yards

6(176) LB MICAH JOHNSON- Another Kentucky backer, with a tough, lunchpail work ethic, would provide Solid depth at the TED position behind haggan and Larsen in case of injury. Its unknow who will fill the void left by davis but we have only 1 FB in larsen so depth is needed inside.

7(205) FB MATT CLAP- a outstanding blocker, would free larsen up a bit for more LB duty if need, provides depth at a position where only 1 FB exists who isnt even a full time FB....would do wonders for our RB's in the new power scheme MCd wants to run.


Have at it folks im sure criticism will abound.....


1(13) RB CJ Spiller

2(45) C JD WALTON-

2(63) OL VLADIMIR DUCASSE-

3(80) DT Terrence "Mt" Cody

4(112)RB LaGarrett Blount

6(176) WR Jordan Shippley

7(205) OL (anyone from ND, Montanta, or Iowa ;D

ELEVATION
03-22-2010, 06:24 AM
1(13) RB CJ Spiller

Bad value he is not the next chris johnson, good back, but lets not get carried away...thats like taking iputati at 11...yikes....;D Ryan Matthews should be the first RB off the board...

2(45) C JD WALTON-

Great pick

2(63) OL VLADIMIR DUCASSE-

great pick

3(80) DT Terrence "Mt" Cody

Doubtful he is there there are many teams in need of a NT...San diego, KC, miami, buffalo, Washington, pitt for depth....and there are exactly 3 that could contribute right away...only 1 projects as elite and he could go as high as 4 to washington...3-4 NT's are premium right now....that leaves Cam thomas and terrence cody....its doubtful Cody makes it out of the first ten picks of rd 2....

4(112)RB LaGarrett Blount

MCD does not touch players with chracter concerns like him during the draft, he takes chracter flawed players in UDFA where the risk is small...last year is a perfect example of this with chris baker...Blount is a good back but i am 100% certain he wont be in denver unless he falls to UDFA

6(176) WR Jordan Shippley

Shipley could go as high as rd 3 as low as rd 6..so i wont say the value is wrong but i would wager he will go before rd 6

7(205) OL (anyone from ND, Montanta, or Iowa ;D

lol, possibly...but a FB is a bigger need than most realize, and we do need DL youth so i would even go that route with a guy like Travis ivey before going OL here...


in red:thumbsup:

ELEVATION
03-22-2010, 06:31 AM
What happened to our #13 pick?

nothing maybe i was editing so you couldnt see it for a minute...lol

Broncoman13
03-22-2010, 06:46 AM
nothing maybe i was editing so you couldnt see it for a minute...lol

Nope, you're saying it's pick 14 like we traded with Seattle or something?

CJ Spiller at 11 isn't high. He may not be Chris Johnson, but he brings a lot more production than CJ did when he was drafted. While Mathews may be a more complete back, he is far too similar to Knowshon Moreno to even consider.

Mt. Cody has been completely removed from several team's draft boards. He could go anywhere between round two and round five. Think of the drop guys like Rodrique Wright and Alan Branch went through. Both were considered top 5 overall guys.

Speaking of reaching, Ordick at #13 (14 on your list). If a DE is what you want then why not take Carlos Dunlap? Think Calais Campbell with outstanding speed. 4.6... are you kidding me? Probably the most suited player to play DE in a 3-4 in this draft.

ELEVATION
03-22-2010, 06:56 AM
Nope, you're saying it's pick 14 like we traded with Seattle or something?

yeah i changed it to 13 its updated now....it was my error...


CJ Spiller at 11 isn't high. He may not be Chris Johnson, but he brings a lot more production than CJ did when he was drafted. While Mathews may be a more complete back, he is far too similar to Knowshon Moreno to even consider.

i agree matthews is not in consideration for us at all, but i belive he is the first back taken which shows i value spiller around the early to mid 20's, while i consider matthews a top 20 pick

and while spiller has the production, the question mark is does he have the ability to be a all round back, many belived chris johnson did, many dont belive spilelr does, so why draft a 15 touch back at 11...that value doesnt see mright to me financially....

Mt. Cody has been completely removed from several team's draft boards. He could go anywhere between round two and round five. Think of the drop guys like Rodrique Wright and Alan Branch went through. Both were considered top 5 overall guys.

i dont totally disagree with you, but NT is much more premium this year than last with even more teams running 3-4's and many have no NT's currently...he may be considered by many teams not worth it but im certain(although speculating) he is the 3rd NT on 3-4 teams draft boards if not the second....

Speaking of reaching, Ordick at #13 (14 on your list). If a DE is what you want then why not take Carlos Dunlap? Think Calais Campbell with outstanding speed. 4.6... are you kidding me? Probably the most suited player to play DE in a 3-4 in this draft.

He blew up the SB, combine and had a great year this and last, many boards now have him as a top 15 pick...jackson went at 3 overall last year, and odrick is a much better 3-4 end prospect...even mayock raves about the guy as a top 15-20 pick..and again we wont touch dunlap becasue of work ethic concerns, laziness, and poor production...im 100% certain we would take spiller before dunlap...

MCD drafts team captains, team leaders, productive and cerebral players...dunalp fits none of those...



in bold above

Drek
03-22-2010, 07:56 AM
1. Why would San Fran trade up to #11 for Haden or Thomas? Its doubtful that Miami will go that route, so why pay to leap a team that won't take your guy?

2. Why would Indy trade out of #63 when Ducasse is exactly the kind of OL prospect they need to add themselves?

Your trades make sense from a straight value standpoint, but I don't see why those teams would want to make those moves. There is little incentive for them to make those deals.

Mediator12
03-22-2010, 08:28 AM
INDY is a very shrewd Trade partner and would probably consider trading their late first first for a second and third, but not sure they would trade that second for a lower prospect and then a player outside the sweet zone in this draft. They need players who can play right away on the Lines and selecting a lesser valued player and then getting a mid round pick probably would not appeal to Polian this year...

I also agree the first round trade back is suspect unless someone was also actively trying to trade up for one of the DB's. Personally, this CB draft is plenty deep enough to NOT have to trade up for a solid starting level prospect. There are more than 5 guys that will be there around their second pick that are outstanding value as opposed to giving up a third that could yield a starter caliber player. I am not sure you saw this, but SF just switched their draft leadership as Scot McCloughan is taking an indefinite leave of absence and San Francisco's director of player personnel Trent Baalke will lead the 49ers into a critical draft. Baalke is not a battle hardened negotiator, this will be his first time running a draft, so that kind of trade seems pretty unlikely.

As for the picks you made with the trades, they are all quality players with solid value outside of Odrick. I still think Odrick is being overvalued in the top 15. His skillset is not a prototypical 3-4 DE, despite having an immense level of talent. That will push his value down in this draft. I think he could be a great player at the next level, I just think he is a much better fit at the 3T instead of the 5T. It would be like putting McCoy on the 5T. He might still be very good at it, but it wastes his strengths and will allow his weaknesses into the play.

Durango
03-22-2010, 08:39 AM
I'm not even in the same solar system as far as draft knowledge goes, but even in my ignorance I've heard that this year premium DT/NT's are available in numbers not seen in many drafts. It would seem logical to me that the Broncos should take advantage of that considering the need for talent at that position. A RB at 11 seems a terrible waste of draft position to me.

Cito Pelon
03-22-2010, 08:58 AM
Could be a good scenario, elevation. But, if Joe Haden or Dan Williams are there at 11 it might be best to go with one of them. Seems hard to pass on one of them, despite the attraction of trading down from 11.

ELEVATION
03-22-2010, 10:22 AM
1. Why would San Fran trade up to #11 for Haden or Thomas? Its doubtful that Miami will go that route, so why pay to leap a team that won't take your guy?

2. Why would Indy trade out of #63 when Ducasse is exactly the kind of OL prospect they need to add themselves?

Your trades make sense from a straight value standpoint, but I don't see why those teams would want to make those moves. There is little incentive for them to make those deals.

Mug and i were talking about Ducasse at 63 as well and our best bet actually would be a earlier 2nd for him but i having trouble madden trading that one into legit scenario...haha

it may even be a better bet to get ducasse at our pick and tennant in the third rd or at that pick if he is there....so you make a very valid point there completely...

and i belive the more obvious trade partner would be a team like houston for haden or thomas but i wanted to start small before getting crazy....and san fran probally knows we like haden and if he is there at 11 he could be our pick, but th extra pick in the 3rd could be enough to entcie MCD to bite, and miami has a number of routes to go..but i belive they jump us entirely for dan williams...so 12 becomes a BPA thing...and then im banking on the fact that San fran loves thomas or haden and doubts that they can get eitehr unless they swap with us....

the more i think about it... houston is a pretty likely partner if haden and thomas are around at 11....

bottom line is just to tinker around a bit and get feedback on trade value and what not...because im firmly on the odrick/walton/ducasse or odrick/Ducasse/Tennant bandwagon for our first 3 picks....

the feedback is much appricieated....

ELEVATION
03-22-2010, 10:24 AM
Could be a good scenario, elevation. But, if Joe Haden or Dan Williams are there at 11 it might be best to go with one of them. Seems hard to pass on one of them, despite the attraction of trading down from 11.

i just dont see the finacial responsiblity with taking haden unless we have no otehr chocie, and personally i belive both kyle wilson and devin mccourty will be better pros....so perhaps my bias has a part here....and i am in a minority than belives dan williams doesnt get past buffalo and could go as high as 4 to washington....

ELEVATION
03-22-2010, 10:29 AM
INDY is a very shrewd Trade partner and would probably consider trading their late first first for a second and third, but not sure they would trade that second for a lower prospect and then a player outside the sweet zone in this draft. They need players who can play right away on the Lines and selecting a lesser valued player and then getting a mid round pick probably would not appeal to Polian this year...

I also agree the first round trade back is suspect unless someone was also actively trying to trade up for one of the DB's. Personally, this CB draft is plenty deep enough to NOT have to trade up for a solid starting level prospect. There are more than 5 guys that will be there around their second pick that are outstanding value as opposed to giving up a third that could yield a starter caliber player. I am not sure you saw this, but SF just switched their draft leadership as Scot McCloughan is taking an indefinite leave of absence and San Francisco's director of player personnel Trent Baalke will lead the 49ers into a critical draft. Baalke is not a battle hardened negotiator, this will be his first time running a draft, so that kind of trade seems pretty unlikely.

As for the picks you made with the trades, they are all quality players with solid value outside of Odrick. I still think Odrick is being overvalued in the top 15. His skillset is not a prototypical 3-4 DE, despite having an immense level of talent. That will push his value down in this draft. I think he could be a great player at the next level, I just think he is a much better fit at the 3T instead of the 5T. It would be like putting McCoy on the 5T. He might still be very good at it, but it wastes his strengths and will allow his weaknesses into the play.


very good response, and the trade with indy is probally the least likely of all the scenarios but many of the scenarios i was coming up with for a good second rd pick invlove marshall or some bad value combo....i dont like that....haha....but trading with houston could get us what we need if they really value haden or thomas, that would be a much better trade than with san fran....so i have no qualms with your disagreement on the indy or san fran trades being unlikely at all....

as i stated to drek im tinkering a bit to try and find a good second rd pick and get feedback on a good scenario for another solid second...becasue while you have doubts about odrick Im firmly on the odrick/Walton or tennant/Ducasse train someway somehow...hahaha

and actually i didnt see the switch in the 49er's front o so thanks for that, becasue i do agree fully that kind of changes the likliehood of my scenario....

Houston here we come:D

Harvitz81
03-22-2010, 10:44 AM
Mug and i were talking about Ducasse at 63 as well and our best bet actually would be a earlier 2nd for him but i having trouble madden trading that one into legit scenario...haha

it may even be a better bet to get ducasse at our pick and tennant in the third rd or at that pick if he is there....so you make a very valid point there completely...

and i belive the more obvious trade partner would be a team like houston for haden or thomas but i wanted to start small before getting crazy....and san fran probally knows we like haden and if he is there at 11 he could be our pick, but th extra pick in the 3rd could be enough to entcie MCD to bite, and miami has a number of routes to go..but i belive they jump us entirely for dan williams...so 12 becomes a BPA thing...and then im banking on the fact that San fran loves thomas or haden and doubts that they can get eitehr unless they swap with us....

the more i think about it... houston is a pretty likely partner if haden and thomas are around at 11....

bottom line is just to tinker around a bit and get feedback on trade value and what not...because im firmly on the odrick/walton/ducasse or odrick/Ducasse/Tennant bandwagon for our first 3 picks....

the feedback is much appricieated....

I think you are right that houston is the more likely trading partner if both haden and thomas are there. In that scenario we could potentially get their 2nd rounder.

Ducasse may go before we even pick at 45. KC, Oak, Wash, Bills, etc will be looking at Olineman. I think if he is there we take him at 45 and hope Walton or Tennant are there for either our 3rd rounder or there in the 2nd if we someone get an extra one.

I would absolutely love it if our first three look something along the lines of what you are thinking.

Cito Pelon
03-22-2010, 10:59 AM
Ya know, you guys that are looking at OL drafted high might have the right picture. I'd like to see the D built up strong in this draft for the future, but judging by the lack of OL FA's and the attention to DL FA's, maybe the strategy will be to go OL heavy so Elevation's and other's strategy holds up.

DBroncos4life
03-22-2010, 11:41 AM
Does Micah Johnson's lack of speed concern you at all? I know he was faster at his pro day with a 4.84 40 but that still isn't that great. I would rather find a LB in round 4 where you have Hardesty going and then draft a smaller back like Michael Smith, Brandon James, or Deji Karim. We seem to be missing the Kevin Faulk sized back that McD wants more then a power back. I think that is why he is in love with Arrington.

Drek
03-22-2010, 11:52 AM
Mug and i were talking about Ducasse at 63 as well and our best bet actually would be a earlier 2nd for him but i having trouble madden trading that one into legit scenario...haha

it may even be a better bet to get ducasse at our pick and tennant in the third rd or at that pick if he is there....so you make a very valid point there completely...

and i belive the more obvious trade partner would be a team like houston for haden or thomas but i wanted to start small before getting crazy....and san fran probally knows we like haden and if he is there at 11 he could be our pick, but th extra pick in the 3rd could be enough to entcie MCD to bite, and miami has a number of routes to go..but i belive they jump us entirely for dan williams...so 12 becomes a BPA thing...and then im banking on the fact that San fran loves thomas or haden and doubts that they can get eitehr unless they swap with us....

the more i think about it... houston is a pretty likely partner if haden and thomas are around at 11....

bottom line is just to tinker around a bit and get feedback on trade value and what not...because im firmly on the odrick/walton/ducasse or odrick/Ducasse/Tennant bandwagon for our first 3 picks....

the feedback is much appricieated....

I'd say a trade back with the Giants to #15, with them including #76 (their 3rd) makes more sense. They need a MLB, if McClain gets past Jacksonville he won't get past Miami, and their 1st and 3rd is ideal value for our 1st.

You'd still be able to get Odrick at #15, though he wouldn't be my pick, but that gets you the extra third the indy deal is shooting for. If Schefter brings back a 4th (I think that is likely) then its very likely you'll be able to move a 3rd and 4th to jump back into the late 2nd.

Personally I'd make that trade with the Giants so they could get McClain, then take the BPA at #15 (Iupati, Sean Weatherspoon, etc.). Then at #45 take Ducasse, Tennant at #76, and then back to BPA with #79.

In reality I think there is a good chance (assuming we get Mawae in house pre-draft) that #45 is earmarked for a WR, either Aurrelius Benn or Demariyus Thomas. We'll then look for the center of the future in the third, Tennant or Walton, whichever one is still on the board.

ELEVATION
03-22-2010, 12:45 PM
Does Micah Johnson's lack of speed concern you at all? I know he was faster at his pro day with a 4.84 40 but that still isn't that great. I would rather find a LB in round 4 where you have Hardesty going and then draft a smaller back like Michael Smith, Brandon James, or Deji Karim. We seem to be missing the Kevin Faulk sized back that McD wants more then a power back. I think that is why he is in love with Arrington.

not really he has good game speed my concern with him is his knee injury, but i think he will be fine, and actually a few of us are starting to consider ILB a wash period...perhaps a rush LB but we are more stacked at ILB than people realize....including me up untill a hour ago....

DJ Woodyard, larsen, haggan, griesen, kelly

where as at OLB we have Doom, ayers, reid(come of knee injury), moss camp cut probally...

ELEVATION
03-22-2010, 12:47 PM
I'd say a trade back with the Giants to #15, with them including #76 (their 3rd) makes more sense. They need a MLB, if McClain gets past Jacksonville he won't get past Miami, and their 1st and 3rd is ideal value for our 1st.

You'd still be able to get Odrick at #15, though he wouldn't be my pick, but that gets you the extra third the indy deal is shooting for. If Schefter brings back a 4th (I think that is likely) then its very likely you'll be able to move a 3rd and 4th to jump back into the late 2nd.

Personally I'd make that trade with the Giants so they could get McClain, then take the BPA at #15 (Iupati, Sean Weatherspoon, etc.). Then at #45 take Ducasse, Tennant at #76, and then back to BPA with #79.

In reality I think there is a good chance (assuming we get Mawae in house pre-draft) that #45 is earmarked for a WR, either Aurrelius Benn or Demariyus Thomas. We'll then look for the center of the future in the third, Tennant or Walton, whichever one is still on the board.


fair enough and i had the giants deal a month ago, but mcclain i belive is in free fall and that the ginats wont consider him at 15 anymore....bu they also are thijn there so its still a possibility...as for the otehr scenarios good, but i dont plan on marshall going anywhere so i see no need for a WR that high, and if he does we have more picks to work with anyways to still obtain a duccasse/walton or tennant combo

DBroncos4life
03-22-2010, 01:13 PM
not really he has good game speed my concern with him is his knee injury, but i think he will be fine, and actually a few of us are starting to consider ILB a wash period...perhaps a rush LB but we are more stacked at ILB than people realize....including me up untill a hour ago....

DJ Woodyard, larsen, haggan, griesen, kelly

where as at OLB we have Doom, ayers, reid(come of knee injury), moss camp cut probally...

I liked him up till his 40 time. As for rush LB's what are your thoughts on Adrian Tracy, Dane Fletcher, or Arthur Moats? All are undersized speed rushers that would be available late.

Cito Pelon
03-22-2010, 02:15 PM
Looks like there's a lot of tweeners available in this draft, college DE's available in the later rounds that could be 3-4 LB's and contribute on ST's. There seems to be a plethora of them. An argument for trading down. Trouble is, Denver needs a lot of OL help.

DBroncos4life
03-22-2010, 02:28 PM
Looks like there's a lot of tweeners available in this draft, college DE's available in the later rounds that could be 3-4 LB's and contribute on ST's. There seems to be a plethora of them. An argument for trading down. Trouble is, Denver needs a lot of OL help.

Antonio Coleman and Brandon Sharpe are 'tweeners that have late round grades. Coleman's pro day numbers are almost ILB like. 6-1, 248 4.77 40. Brandon Sharpe numbers are pretty close too, 6-2, 254 4.71 40. Coleman had 10 sacks, Sharpe had 15. I wonder how well they would do moving around from inside to outside as a pass rushing specialist.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
03-22-2010, 03:31 PM
I'd have no problems whatsoever with that draft, nice work.

Only issue is that I don't think a power back is what we need to compliment Moreno at all. What we need is a speed back, someone who gives us the big play capability that I think Moreno lacks. Moreno can be the 15-20 carries a game guy who does the short yardage and goalline work, what he needs as a compliment is a speedster.

Buckhalter hopefully has another year left in him, maybe Arrington will step up... but they're both big question marks.

If we add a RB I'd rather it be Jahvid Best or Joe McKnight.


I think the thought process behind the bigger backs we are looking at is the occasional Fullback usage as well as playing the closer role late in games. McD loves that role, its too bad LaMont Jordan was incapable of fulfilling it last year.

So, I don't view it as a power back compliment because, Knowshon, is a power back despite smaller size. If Arrington returns to form, we have a very nice trio of small-medium backs. We just need that hybrid FB/RB. I'm imagining a scenario where the player is a Fullback lead blocking on some plays early in the game and then is given a chance to run down the clock in the 4th.

I think that scenario would play to the strengths of a bigger back like Gerhart, Dixon, or Charles Scott. All have some fullback experience in their past. Scott in particular is an excellent blocker and with his slower times and collarbone injury, he might be an ideal pick in the 6th Round.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
03-22-2010, 03:39 PM
Nope, you're saying it's pick 14 like we traded with Seattle or something?

CJ Spiller at 11 isn't high. He may not be Chris Johnson, but he brings a lot more production than CJ did when he was drafted. While Mathews may be a more complete back, he is far too similar to Knowshon Moreno to even consider.

Mt. Cody has been completely removed from several team's draft boards. He could go anywhere between round two and round five. Think of the drop guys like Rodrique Wright and Alan Branch went through. Both were considered top 5 overall guys.

Speaking of reaching, Ordick at #13 (14 on your list). If a DE is what you want then why not take Carlos Dunlap? Think Calais Campbell with outstanding speed. 4.6... are you kidding me? Probably the most suited player to play DE in a 3-4 in this draft.


We're not going to take CJ Spiller. That will be a 27 million deal on top of Moreno's 23 million. Just like with ILB, finances completely dictate that we will not spend the #11 Overall selection on those two positions, regardless of how good Spiller or McClain/Weatherspoon may be.


As for Odrick v. Dunlap. Carlos showed up at the Combine weighing in the 270s. He's much more of a 4-3 DE than anything in the 3-4. He might work in a one gap system, like I believe we will continue to employ, but his character concerns makes him a non-factor for us most likely.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
03-22-2010, 03:53 PM
I'm not even in the same solar system as far as draft knowledge goes, but even in my ignorance I've heard that this year premium DT/NT's are available in numbers not seen in many drafts. It would seem logical to me that the Broncos should take advantage of that considering the need for talent at that position. A RB at 11 seems a terrible waste of draft position to me.

For a 4-3, yes. For a 3-4, I say no.

You have one 5 star elite prospect at NT: Dan Williams, and you have one 5 star elite prospect at 5: Jared Odrick.


After that, you have no 2nd tier at NT, but you have a decent 2nd Tier at 5: Tyson Alualu, Lamarr Houston, Arthur Jones. The problem with each of these guys though is that they are not the prototype size. They are productive, have nice resumes, and in the case of Alualu, have serious experience at the position from college. Still, there long term upside is more of a blue collar starter, than a Pro Bowl level. Also, there is some question as to whether they could start in the NFL, they all might be solid rotational guys, such as Jarvis Green-like nickel rushers.


Then you have the 3rd tier guys. At NT, Terrance Cody and Cam Thomas. Both are boom or bust. There's a lot of risk here for a 2nd round pick. I don't really see a 3rd tier at 5 tech.


Then you have the 4th tier guys. At NT, I'd lump Linval Joseph, Torrell Troup, and Al Woods in here, maybe Kade Weston as well. Likely 4th-6th Round picks that could be bargains, but nobody you would bet on to become a stud. At 5, Mike Neal, Corey Peters, and maybe Vince Oghobaase round out this tier. The talent has really been exhausted at this point.



So, I'd actually argue that this draft is really deep in 4-3 prospects, but not so much in 3-4 linemen. The only two guys I'd feel really good about, like they are sure bets, are Williams and Odrick. I could feel excited for the potential of Alualu, Houston, or Jones. I could hope for the boom from Cody or Thomas. But, in terms of expected Pro Bowl calibur prospects, I only see Williams and Odrick. And I hope we get one of them, especially Odrick.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
03-22-2010, 04:04 PM
I'd say a trade back with the Giants to #15, with them including #76 (their 3rd) makes more sense. They need a MLB, if McClain gets past Jacksonville he won't get past Miami, and their 1st and 3rd is ideal value for our 1st.

You'd still be able to get Odrick at #15, though he wouldn't be my pick, but that gets you the extra third the indy deal is shooting for. If Schefter brings back a 4th (I think that is likely) then its very likely you'll be able to move a 3rd and 4th to jump back into the late 2nd.

Personally I'd make that trade with the Giants so they could get McClain, then take the BPA at #15 (Iupati, Sean Weatherspoon, etc.). Then at #45 take Ducasse, Tennant at #76, and then back to BPA with #79.

In reality I think there is a good chance (assuming we get Mawae in house pre-draft) that #45 is earmarked for a WR, either Aurrelius Benn or Demariyus Thomas. We'll then look for the center of the future in the third, Tennant or Walton, whichever one is still on the board.


Miami's not taking McClain. They can't afford to have two ILBs with that high of a salary. That's even worse than us taking him and pairing him with Williams.

As for a 4-3 team taking McClain, I don't think that is going to happen. He doesn't look like a 3 down MIKE due to his limited athleticism. And while a 2-down thumper with elite intangibles starts to look good for the cost around the Mid-20s, I don't think he'll go before that. We watched this play out last year with Laurinaitis and Maualuga.

The value for ILBs is going to be in the 2nd Round with Chaney, Lee, and Butler. The Giants are in pretty bad shape on the O-line too. They could desperately use an influx of talent at both OTs and OC. They got the young guy in the late 2nd last year, but I think they're hoping one of the elite OTs drop, specifically Williams or Bulaga.

Right now, it looks like Haden or Earl Thomas will be our best bargaining chip for a trade down. SF will take one of them. Somebody like Houston may jump. The problem is that trading down to #20 puts us in the precarious position of missing out on Odrick and Pouncey. I really expect Pittsburgh to take Pouncey at #18.

Caligula
03-22-2010, 04:04 PM
I think the thought process behind the bigger backs we are looking at is the occasional Fullback usage as well as playing the closer role late in games. McD loves that role, its too bad LaMont Jordan was incapable of fulfilling it last year.



I'd like to say you are right here, but he didn't use the hybrid stud we had on the team last year.

Cito Pelon
03-22-2010, 04:15 PM
Antonio Coleman and Brandon Sharpe are 'tweeners that have late round grades. Coleman's pro day numbers are almost ILB like. 6-1, 248 4.77 40. Brandon Sharpe numbers are pretty close too, 6-2, 254 4.71 40. Coleman had 10 sacks, Sharpe had 15. I wonder how well they would do moving around from inside to outside as a pass rushing specialist.

Sheesh, man, there's a bunch of college DE's that have sub-4.9 speed with good size, available maybe in rounds 3-4-5. I'm wondering what the FO is gonna do to address the OL. These DL/DE guys can contribute on ST's while the FA signings hold the fort for a year. Maybe a D stud round one, OL rounds 2 and 3, then back to the DL? I dunno.

DBroncos4life
03-22-2010, 04:26 PM
Sheesh, man, there's a bunch of college DE's that have sub-4.9 speed with good size, available maybe in rounds 3-4-5. I'm wondering what the FO is gonna do to address the OL. These DL/DE guys can contribute on ST's while the FA signings hold the fort for a year. Maybe a D stud round one, OL rounds 2 and 3, then back to the DL? I dunno.

The three players I mentioned earlier are all fast undersized 'tweeners as well from small schools.

Arthur Moats, James Madison 6-0, 246 4.57 40 time. 11 sacks as a senior. Small school 1-AA. 23.5 TFL as well as a senior.

Dane Fletcher, Montana State 6-1, 245 4.61 40 time. One of the best pass rushers in Big Sky history. He also has a 36 inch vert

Adrian Tracy, William & Mary 6-3, 248 4.79 40 time. 12 sacks as a senior.
In 47 career starts, Adrian Tracy had 62.5 TFL and 31 sacks at William & Mary.

There are lots of pass rushing OLB's in this draft for teams looking for guys like that for the 3-4.

Cito Pelon
03-22-2010, 04:33 PM
I think the thought process behind the bigger backs we are looking at is the occasional Fullback usage as well as playing the closer role late in games. McD loves that role, its too bad LaMont Jordan was incapable of fulfilling it last year.

So, I don't view it as a power back compliment because, Knowshon, is a power back despite smaller size. If Arrington returns to form, we have a very nice trio of small-medium backs. We just need that hybrid FB/RB. I'm imagining a scenario where the player is a Fullback lead blocking on some plays early in the game and then is given a chance to run down the clock in the 4th.

I think that scenario would play to the strengths of a bigger back like Gerhart, Dixon, or Charles Scott. All have some fullback experience in their past. Scott in particular is an excellent blocker and with his slower times and collarbone injury, he might be an ideal pick in the 6th Round.

Oh, that's just great you guys introduce a tailback/FB into the draft mix. Thanks a lot. And thanks for your input MUG on a later round fullback.

OL, DL, LB, CB seem to be the priorities. I see good prospects in the rounds one thru three at DL, OL, LB, CB. Sure would be nice if Denver could add some picks in rounds 1, 2, 3.

Cito Pelon
03-22-2010, 04:43 PM
The three players I mentioned earlier are all fast undersized 'tweeners as well from small schools.

Arthur Moats, James Madison 6-0, 246 4.57 40 time. 11 sacks as a senior. Small school 1-AA. 23.5 TFL as well as a senior.

Dane Fletcher, Montana State 6-1, 245 4.61 40 time. One of the best pass rushers in Big Sky history. He also has a 36 inch vert

Adrian Tracy, William & Mary 6-3, 248 4.79 40 time. 12 sacks as a senior.
In 47 career starts, Adrian Tracy had 62.5 TFL and 31 sacks at William & Mary.

There are lots of pass rushing OLB's in this draft for teams looking for guys like that for the 3-4.

Those guys are what, 4th-5th rounders? Fine with me, I'm fine with any D man. I'm wondering what the FO is gonna do about the OL.

I'd love to see the D built up to be the best in the NFL for the next 15 years, but I'm a little worried about the OL right now.

DBroncos4life
03-22-2010, 04:48 PM
Those guys are what, 4th-5th rounders? Fine with me, I'm fine with any D man. I'm wondering what the FO is gonna do about the OL.

I'd love to see the D built up to be the best in the NFL for the next 15 years, but I'm a little worried about the OL right now.

I'm thinking and I'm not a guru, anywhere from 6th to UDFA's. Undersized and from small colleges. They will have lots to over come.

Cito Pelon
03-22-2010, 06:24 PM
I'm thinking and I'm not a guru, anywhere from 6th to UDFA's. Undersized and from small colleges. They will have lots to over come.

I'm not looking to bag on you, 4life. Any D guys are fine with me. I'd love to see the D built up to 1975-89 standards, best D in the NFL.

Broncoman13
03-22-2010, 06:29 PM
We're not going to take CJ Spiller. That will be a 27 million deal on top of Moreno's 23 million. Just like with ILB, finances completely dictate that we will not spend the #11 Overall selection on those two positions, regardless of how good Spiller or McClain/Weatherspoon may be.


As for Odrick v. Dunlap. Carlos showed up at the Combine weighing in the 270s. He's much more of a 4-3 DE than anything in the 3-4. He might work in a one gap system, like I believe we will continue to employ, but his character concerns makes him a non-factor for us most likely.

Just like drafting two safeties last year after giving Hill and Dawkins sizeable contracts... or signing Jordan, Buckhalter, and Arrington in Free Agency while we had Hillis and Torain, and then drafting Knowshown with our first pick.

While I think you have a point that it is less likely and less of a need, I don't think that it's out of the question b/c Spiller has a skillset that many teams covet. It's kind of like the Vikes taking AD even though Chester Taylor was just coming off a 1200 yard season. If Spiller is their highest rated prospect, they'll take him. Same thing if Eric Berry were to fall. Not a huge need, but he'd be the pick if he were the highest rated prospect.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
03-22-2010, 06:43 PM
Just like drafting two safeties last year after giving Hill and Dawkins sizeable contracts... or signing Jordan, Buckhalter, and Arrington in Free Agency while we had Hillis and Torain, and then drafting Knowshown with our first pick.

While I think you have a point that it is less likely and less of a need, I don't think that it's out of the question b/c Spiller has a skillset that many teams covet. It's kind of like the Vikes taking AD even though Chester Taylor was just coming off a 1200 yard season. If Spiller is their highest rated prospect, they'll take him. Same thing if Eric Berry were to fall. Not a huge need, but he'd be the pick if he were the highest rated prospect.


But you can't. An NFL team simply cannot spend 50-60 million at RB by utilizing the draft two years running. Not only is it not cost-effective, but it's limiting your stud young talent at other positions.

You are accurately presenting the fact that we signed/drafted a multitude of players/prospects at similar positions. I'm advocating doing the same on the D-line this draft. Get the older vets for a few years, draft the rooks like hell so they can be coached up in the interrim. However, you are ignoring the sheer magnitude of the cost of the #11 Overall selection, and the sheer cost of the #12 Overall selection from last season.

I'm not ruling out a RB in this draft, but finances will dictate we can't take one before the Mid-late 20s at the earliest. If we trade back and Spiller falls, sure he's an option. If we stay put at #11, he is not. The Lions (WR) and the Seahawks (LB) are two recent examples that have emphasized the foolishness of investing your top resources into the same position year after year. Both teams have failed, and both front offices have been completely cleaned out. I don't anticipate McD/Xanders making that same mistake, regardless of how shiny the prospect may appear.

Cito Pelon
03-22-2010, 07:06 PM
But you can't. An NFL team simply cannot spend 50-60 million at RB by utilizing the draft two years running. Not only is it not cost-effective, but it's limiting your stud young talent at other positions.

You are accurately presenting the fact that we signed/drafted a multitude of players/prospects at similar positions. I'm advocating doing the same on the D-line this draft. Get the older vets for a few years, draft the rooks like hell so they can be coached up in the interrim. However, you are ignoring the sheer magnitude of the cost of the #11 Overall selection, and the sheer cost of the #12 Overall selection from last season.

I'm not ruling out a RB in this draft, but finances will dictate we can't take one before the Mid-late 20s at the earliest. If we trade back and Spiller falls, sure he's an option. If we stay put at #11, he is not. The Lions (WR) and the Seahawks (LB) are two recent examples that have emphasized the foolishness of investing your top resources into the same position year after year. Both teams have failed, and both front offices have been completely cleaned out. I don't anticipate McD/Xanders making that same mistake, regardless of how shiny the prospect may appear.

Jeez, you've ruled out ILB and RB at 11 because of financial considerations.

You're locked into Dan Williams at 11 and Odrick? You wouldn't consider Joe Haden or Brandon Graham at 11? I'm being a dick for arguments' sake, but it's a legitimate question.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
03-22-2010, 08:53 PM
Jeez, you've ruled out ILB and RB at 11 because of financial considerations.

You're locked into Dan Williams at 11 and Odrick? You wouldn't consider Joe Haden or Brandon Graham at 11? I'm being a dick for arguments' sake, but it's a legitimate question.


Legitimate questions aren't being a dick, you just want to know where the hell I'm coming from. I have no problem with that.

The only positions I'm ruling out due to finances are ILB, OLB, and RB. Assuming we eventually resign Dumervil for big bucks, and we have Ayers locked up for relatively big dollars, 16 million or so, I don't see a financial fit for prospects at those same positions to be selected at #11. If we trade down to the Mid-Late 20s, the financial ramifications are greatly diminished.

As for Dan Williams, I don't think there is any chance he is there at #11. Zero. If somehow he gets past KC and Buffalo, Miami will give up a 4th to jump us and take him. Jacksonville is 100% trading down if possible. So, I don't even consider him, though he'd be the pick if the impossible happens.

As for Haden, I think that's more political. We are in bed with Alphonso Smith, it will look horrific if we take a CB in Round 1. On top of that, we'll only keep 5 CBs. You have to assume Champ, Goodman, Smith, and Jones are locks. We gave Jones a hefty nickel contract, so he's at worst, the dime back. You'd have to believe we'll let Smith be the #3 or #4 depending on who wins nickel duties between he and Jones. Your 5th CB doesn't always dress. I don't think we'll bump down any of our current CBs to inactive status. And, I don't think we'll draft a CB at #11 Overall and not have him at least instantly start in the nickel. I don't see a fit here for political and roster spot reasons. Same deal for Earl Thomas or Eric Berry at Safety. You could cut Renaldo Hill, but then you banish McBath to the bench, and he looked like a future stud last year.


Now, obviously in my mind, that leaves very few positions, and even fewer players, that are good value or options at #11. Dez Bryant would be a very exciting option if we trade Marshall, but until we do, he doesn't look like an option with the team picking up Stokley's bonus and re-signing Lloyd. I don't see Gaffney, Royal, or McKinley getting cut in camp. We won't carry more than 6 WRs. An OT would be interesting, but you generally don't take an OG or RT prospect that high. Obviously, we don't need a LT. Thus, I think the odds heavily favor us not going after an OT at #11. ILB, OLB, RB, S, CB, QB, FB, P, K, OT, OG, and TE are out. That leaves OC and D-Line. Well, I don't think Dan Williams will be there. There's no other NT worth that selection. That leaves Odrick. And it leaves Pouncey at OC. Well, no OC has ever been drafted that early in modern draft history. You almost have to trade down at least a little for Pouncey. Thus, the only player worth the #11 selection outside of possibly Dez Bryant, is Jared Odrick. He's a prototype 5 technique that could hopefully start in front of Jarvis Green at RDE, allowing Green to fill Holliday's nickel role, which is where he prefers to play and excels at.

Unless we trade down, I think Odrick is the pick. And I think it's a superb selection. He's better in every way than last year's #3 Overall 5 tech, Tyson Jackson.

ELEVATION
03-23-2010, 12:48 AM
I liked him up till his 40 time. As for rush LB's what are your thoughts on Adrian Tracy, Dane Fletcher, or Arthur Moats? All are undersized speed rushers that would be available late.

i like all 3 guys becasue they are small school guys and i always have a good feeling about small school guys, i would be fine with any of those guys in rd 6. they probally all our better than moss....haha

i guess the best thing to do would be possibly a rd 3 or 4 rush LB...and anotehr guy late....i have a good feeling about UDFA as well i think we will probally bring in 12 guys from UDFA for TC battles....those can be very fun and we might fin a suprise there to....perhaps someone like beauchamp, dexter davis, albert mclellan etc....

the main thing is we def need a rush LB....we can use haggan as a swing guy if need be and have larsen inside Ted starter, but haggan is really only solid against the run, he isnt a great edge rusher....so the prefernce for me now is to add depth at Rush lb

ELEVATION
03-23-2010, 12:55 AM
just a quick shout out to everyone in this thread, some good discussion has been brewing, so thanks to all of you involved.

Broncoman13
03-23-2010, 07:14 AM
MUG, everything you say makes sense for a team that is on the verge and has an abundance of talent. That is not the Broncos. We lack playmakers and the deficit in talent when compared to teams like the Chargers, Colts, Steelers and Pats is remarkable. The only way you can make up that talent is by drafting BPA. You yourself said that Odrick should be a mid to later first round pick. Why would you give someone that you feel is a late first, close to top 10 money?


Defensive Tackle | Penn State | SR Jared Odrick
Height: 6-5 | Weight: 304 | 40-Time: 5.06

Official Bio


Strengths:
Great size with a long frame --- Very good athlete --- Terrific speed and quickness --- Really fires off the snap --- Strong and powerful --- Active with a non-stop motor --- Does a nice job in pursuit --- Has a burst to close --- Uses his hands well --- Able to penetrate, get upfield and can collapse the pocket --- Aggressive --- Competitive --- Smart with superb instincts and awareness --- Hard worker --- Some schematic versatility.

Weaknesses:
Doesn't always play with proper leverage --- Not very agile and doesn't move well laterally --- Is not overly stout at the point of attack --- Feet go dead at times --- Gets neutralized by double-teams --- Has trouble getting off blocks once engaged --- Relatively average production and did not make a lot of impact plays --- Some minor durability concerns.

Notes:
Last name is pronounced "ODD-rick" --- Was a three-year starter for the Nittany Lions --- Earned All-American honors in 2009 --- Named 1st Team All-Big Ten in 2008 and 2009 --- The Big Ten Defensive Player and Defensive Lineman of the Year as a senior --- Season was cut short by a broken hand and ankle in '07 --- The type who does everything well but nothing great --- Could project to either defensive tackle (three-technique) in a 4-3 or defensive end (five-technique) in a 3-4 --- Not particularly flashy but offers a nice mix of physical tools and intangibles.


And people are advocates for this guy being the #11 pick???

Requiem
03-23-2010, 11:09 AM
Absolutely hate Odrick at #13.

I love the picks of Walton, Ducasse and Roberts, but I think Ducasse goes in the top fifty selections.

I'm so-so on Hardesty. He has an injury history but really excelled as a senior. I was thinking with his five years in school, he'd of been a lot older -- but he just turned 23 from what I can see so it isn't that bad. He'd be a good N/S compliment runner in our scheme. I think that he could go a little earlier than that, but it is exceptionally good value.

Can't disagree with the Johnson pick that late, he is a good player, and would be solid for two downs in the NFL, I like D'Impiero from Rutgers around that time too -- but I can't complain.

Could care less about the fullback pick, good reasoning, but I'd explore another position in all honesty.

Overall, I'd give this draft a solid B+ rating. The Odrick pick is what sours me, but I think our gut of the draft kicks ass. Thank you for sharing.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
03-23-2010, 01:47 PM
MUG, everything you say makes sense for a team that is on the verge and has an abundance of talent. That is not the Broncos. We lack playmakers and the deficit in talent when compared to teams like the Chargers, Colts, Steelers and Pats is remarkable. The only way you can make up that talent is by drafting BPA. You yourself said that Odrick should be a mid to later first round pick. Why would you give someone that you feel is a late first, close to top 10 money?


Defensive Tackle | Penn State | SR Jared Odrick
Height: 6-5 | Weight: 304 | 40-Time: 5.06

Official Bio


Strengths:
Great size with a long frame --- Very good athlete --- Terrific speed and quickness --- Really fires off the snap --- Strong and powerful --- Active with a non-stop motor --- Does a nice job in pursuit --- Has a burst to close --- Uses his hands well --- Able to penetrate, get upfield and can collapse the pocket --- Aggressive --- Competitive --- Smart with superb instincts and awareness --- Hard worker --- Some schematic versatility.

Weaknesses:
Doesn't always play with proper leverage --- Not very agile and doesn't move well laterally --- Is not overly stout at the point of attack --- Feet go dead at times --- Gets neutralized by double-teams --- Has trouble getting off blocks once engaged --- Relatively average production and did not make a lot of impact plays --- Some minor durability concerns.

Notes:
Last name is pronounced "ODD-rick" --- Was a three-year starter for the Nittany Lions --- Earned All-American honors in 2009 --- Named 1st Team All-Big Ten in 2008 and 2009 --- The Big Ten Defensive Player and Defensive Lineman of the Year as a senior --- Season was cut short by a broken hand and ankle in '07 --- The type who does everything well but nothing great --- Could project to either defensive tackle (three-technique) in a 4-3 or defensive end (five-technique) in a 3-4 --- Not particularly flashy but offers a nice mix of physical tools and intangibles.


And people are advocates for this guy being the #11 pick???


Dez Bryant is going to be the best player available in all likelihood. I'd be fine with taking him, but I don't see it as a possibility unless we trade Marshall.

Odrick is going to be a superb player. He has all the physical skills in the world and he has a tremendous work ethic. Any player with talent and want-to combined does not fail unless due to injuries. I think he's a great value at #11 and a very safe selection which will greatly impact the future of our D-line, which currently has no impact youth.

A 3-4 DE will rarely ever be the best player on the board, but their positional value transends statistics, plus with the 3-4 now in vogue, finding a prototype at NT or DE is almost impossible. Odrick at #11, based on Jackson going #3 last year, would be a steal. Odrick is better.

I know Odrick isn't as flashy as Spiller, Bryant, or McClain. I know he will take a year or two to fully develop. I know that turns off some people. I know he was from Penn State and some have this negative perception of Penn State D-linemen. I get it that this is not a sexy pick. But everyone here saw what happened with our D-line and our DEs last year. We watched McD sign almost every upgradeable stopgap veteran. We still have no starting RDE. Jarvis Green's contract is really a 2 year, 7 million deal. He's our nickel rusher.

For all the people not liking Odrick, they better start to at least appreciate all that he has accomplished and the talent he possesses. He has a very, very large probability of being our 1st Round selection.

DBroncos4life
03-23-2010, 02:14 PM
I think the Dez Bryant thing is over-blown as well. Unlike Spiller, Bryant was always looked at as a top 10 pick. Even with Marshall I would welcome Bryant on the team. There is no reason to believe that Marshall would stay longer then a franchise tag, so why not have a guy up to speed if or when Marshall does leave.

gunns
03-23-2010, 06:19 PM
TRADES-

Please dont tell me trades(or madden trades) wont happen during the draft, we pulled numerous trades in the draft last year to move up spots and all the ones below are equal value across the board...

Denver Trades Pick 11, and 2011 4th rd pick to San Francisco for pick 13 and 3rd rd pick(79)- San Francisco Desperately needs Cb and Safety Help.....at 14both haden and Earl Thomas could be gone. With pick 11 San francisco has the chance to draft Earl Thomas or Joe haden..elite talents for their secondary for the small cost of their 3rd rd pick.

Denver Trades Sheffler to Carolina for 4th rd pick(110)- With sheffler on the outs, MCD deals sheff to a team that needs a field stretching threat besides steve smith, gives matt moore another dangerous catching threat, who has improved his blocking over the past year.

Denver Trades its own 3rd rd pick(79) and the 4th rd pick(110) from Carolina to Indy for their 2nd rd pick(63)


And yes i still have marshall as a bronco next year!!!!!


DRAFT-

1(13) DE JARED ODRICK- Denver needs a youth injection on the DL, outside of Marcus thomas and Chris baker the guys are up there in age and tenure. Jarvis green is not a full time 3-4 RDE, Odrick would be able to step into the rotation on day 1 and be a factor from the Rt side

2(45) C JD WALTON- we have no reall center options on our roster, and Walton should be able to step in day 1 as a starter, would provide a lunchpail mentaily and road grader for us for years, he would go along ways to solidfying our OL

2(63) OL VLADIMIR DUCASSE- We lack effective depth at guard and tackle, Duccase is exactly the type of Ol we want tough, physical, powerful and versatile, he would not only give us depth at Guard, but he can back-up tackle as well. We saw the issue we had last year when harris went down.

3(80) WR ANDRE ROBERTS- Depsite the small school the guy is a great athlete, his stock is on the rise after being the best WR at the senior bowl. He has field stretching ability and good speed, he would not only give our Corps anotehr viable weapon, but he would provide the deep threat we lack in this offense, great route runner, with great hands, and good seperation ability, also provide punt return ability....avg 15 yds last year

4(112)RB MONTARIO HARDESTY- Arrignton is a unknown, Bucky is injury prone and Knowshon could use help. Hardesty would be a good compliment to knowshon, we do need RB depth and hardesty is a very tough, N/S runner capable of getting tough yards

6(176) LB MICAH JOHNSON- Another Kentucky backer, with a tough, lunchpail work ethic, would provide Solid depth at the TED position behind haggan and Larsen in case of injury. Its unknow who will fill the void left by davis but we have only 1 FB in larsen so depth is needed inside.

7(205) FB MATT CLAP- a outstanding blocker, would free larsen up a bit for more LB duty if need, provides depth at a position where only 1 FB exists who isnt even a full time FB....would do wonders for our RB's in the new power scheme MCd wants to run.


Have at it folks im sure criticism will abound.....

I don't know about the last 3. I just wouldn't take Odrick, just my own personal preference to never take a Penn St. player. And Ducasse is listed as an OT, while not a bad thing I think we need to focus on OG, unless he can play both.

Requiem
03-23-2010, 09:25 PM
He will be a monster LG in the NFL, and an above-average tackle. Leonard Davis type abilities.

ELEVATION
03-23-2010, 11:41 PM
Absolutely hate Odrick at #13.

I love the picks of Walton, Ducasse and Roberts, but I think Ducasse goes in the top fifty selections.

I'm so-so on Hardesty. He has an injury history but really excelled as a senior. I was thinking with his five years in school, he'd of been a lot older -- but he just turned 23 from what I can see so it isn't that bad. He'd be a good N/S compliment runner in our scheme. I think that he could go a little earlier than that, but it is exceptionally good value.

Can't disagree with the Johnson pick that late, he is a good player, and would be solid for two downs in the NFL, I like D'Impiero from Rutgers around that time too -- but I can't complain.

Could care less about the fullback pick, good reasoning, but I'd explore another position in all honesty.

Overall, I'd give this draft a solid B+ rating. The Odrick pick is what sours me, but I think our gut of the draft kicks ass. Thank you for sharing.


lol u hate odrick....well i can live wit that, as i probally hate pouncey as much as you hate odrick....so i get where your coming from...

as for ducasse yeah we would probally have to nab himn with our first second rd pick and hope for Walton to still be around, if not settle for tennant.

Hardesty seems like he just is that all round player we could really use, but it may be even more in our interest to get a guy like starks, dixon or tate...i think the general consesus is to take another Rb in rd 3 or later...its def a need.

As for johnson im actually now switching him out for a rush LB somewhere. I also am a big fan of imperio,very big fan...it seems a bigger need for us at LB is outside than in though....its pretty much been stated by MCD himself the plan is for haggan to be inside next to DJ, that leaves woodyard and lasren as first back-ups, and im almost certain both braxton kelly and griesen will make the team...giving us six ILB...while we have really only doom and ayers outside. i doubt moss makes it out of camp, and reid is coming off injury, so outside of haggan possibly moving out if we get in a jam, we certainly need some more players at rush lb...

As for FB im tired of worrying about larsen, i hope they just let him concetrate on being a LB, because while he is cereberal enough to handle both, i don't think its doing this team any favors, i know our offesne is a spread one, but with a power run scheme coming a Devestaing blocking FB is in my mind exactly what could put a exclamtion point on our run offense..

i belive hillis wasnt utilized last year becasue when larsen went down, hillis was really are only option there at FB, i also belive MCD wants all his options available on offense and doesnt like being handcuffed by limitaions from injured players or lack of depth. I feel both he and Mccoy would like a FB for the long haul and not just a FB/LB/SP hybrid....

i could see us getting one in UDFA though however instead of the draft, and using that pick for something else. dont have any issue with that at all.

thanks for the comments bro.:thumbsup:

DBroncos4life
03-24-2010, 12:09 AM
I'm not looking to bag on you, 4life. Any D guys are fine with me. I'd love to see the D built up to 1975-89 standards, best D in the NFL.

I didn't think you were. I have a hard time placing value on players from small schools. I got killed in the mock draft vs the real draft because of the players I drafted from small schools. I agree with you 100% though looking at the 40 times of these players projected to be OLB's in 3-4 systems it will be a great year for late round value.

s0phr0syne
03-30-2010, 12:27 PM
What about subbing out Clapp and getting Eldridge instead? Eldridge can play FB and would give us a good TE presence as well.