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View Full Version : We should take C.J. Spiller


baja
03-20-2010, 04:19 PM
This would give us a young running back tandem for the next several seasons. We need playmakers on Offense to help our above average but still developing QBs. We can get the O line help in the later rounds

C.J. Spiller would give us a great returner as well, another area of need on this team.

Spiller would give us immediate help more so than any other player in the draft we could reasonably expect to draft.

baja
03-20-2010, 04:20 PM
What do you guys and gals think....

extralife
03-20-2010, 04:22 PM
back to back firsts on guys that play the same position? a position where careers end early? and where talent usually is fairly cheap?

yeah, I'll pass.

The MVPlaya
03-20-2010, 04:25 PM
back to back firsts on guys that play the same position? a position where careers end early? and where talent usually is fairly cheap?

yeah, I'll pass.

That's the whole idea of going to a 2 back system, keeping your RB's under 250 carries a season.

Spiller would also be a returner...

extralife
03-20-2010, 04:28 PM
two backs is great--just make sure they aren't both earning top ten money and taking away your main way of getting premier talent. no tandem back is worth the 11th pick, trends be damned.

Dr. Broncenstein
03-20-2010, 04:29 PM
Build a dominant offensive line, and it wont matter who is running the ball.

iDENVER
03-20-2010, 04:32 PM
Build a dominant offensive line, and it wont matter who is running the ball.

this :thumbs:

Killericon
03-20-2010, 04:32 PM
I think Orton has developed as much as he's going to.

baja
03-20-2010, 04:32 PM
I have watched Sproles almost single handedly distroy the Broncos. C.J. Spiller is this type of player I think he would be one of those players that would make our offense better at every skill position. Normally I would never want a running back at #1 but this guy is a game changer.

Ideally we could trade down a few spots and get him later in the first round.

I just don't see anyone that is likely going to be available at 11 that could help us more. This will help on O and on ST.

Look what guys like Sproles and Hall and the returner form Chicago have done to us and others they change games and C.J. Spiller is in the league.

Rohirrim
03-20-2010, 04:33 PM
He could very easily be the best player on the board when the #11 pick comes around, so it's a possibility.

tsiguy96
03-20-2010, 04:33 PM
i heard a stat the other day, anyone have the exact stat?

he has 50 some TDs in college, and over 20 of them were from 50+ yards.

GoBroncos84
03-20-2010, 04:35 PM
A backfield of Moreno and Spiller would be amazing, and he has great value in the return game. Perhaps his best usage would come as a receiver out of the backfield, since our new offense loves screen plays. I would not be upset with drafting Spiller at all. He has that special "it" factor, he is just an electric player. A rare talent. I have been saying he is this drafts Percy Harvin, in terms of the immediate impact he could have.


However, I have not yet joined the camp that is advocating it. He may be the BPA when we pick, but he certainly doesn't fill the biggest need. Not even close. We most likely won't be looking at center or guard if we stay at 11, so I expect it to be a defensive selection for a need position. I don't want us to take Dez Bryant, and hope we retain Marshall. So if one of these 3 names is called I will be a happy guy: Rolando McClain, Dan Williams, C.J. Spiller.

The MVPlaya
03-20-2010, 04:37 PM
two backs is great--just back sure they aren't both earning top ten money and taking away your main way of getting premier talent. no tandem back is worth the 11th pick, trends be damned.


Two backs that were 11th and 12th picks might be a difficult investment to make...yes.

extralife
03-20-2010, 04:46 PM
I have watched Sproles almost single handedly distroy the Broncos. C.J. Spiller is this type of player I think he would be one of those players that would make our offense better at every skill position. Normally I would never want a running back at #1 but this guy is a game changer.

Ideally we could trade down a few spots and get him later in the first round.

I just don't see anyone that is likely going to be available at 11 that could help us more. This will help on O and on ST.

Look what guys like Sproles and Hall and the returner form Chicago have done to us and others they change games and C.J. Spiller is in the league.

I've also seen Sproles **** the bed against teams with real defenses, draw no interest in free agency, show near nothing last year, and yet somehow still end up making 7 million. if your example is Sproles, you only hurt the cause.

FireFly
03-20-2010, 04:47 PM
I do NOT want this to happen.

It would be a luxury that this team can't really afford at this point in time with so many other glaring holes imo.

With that being said, I honestly would not be surprised if it DID happen, simple from the perspective that he might well be the highest rated player left on the board by the time we pick

cabronco
03-20-2010, 04:49 PM
I think he's the best value at #11. I think McD plans on building the O-line too just not at 11. Spiller & Moreno would make a great tandem. I think you need more than just Moreno. Buckhalter is prone to injury and past his prime. Arrington's not the answer either. So unless there's one of the top d-lineman there for the taking at #11, and we still have Marshall, I wouldnt mind taking Spiller. JMHO

Arkansas Bronco
03-20-2010, 04:50 PM
I think we have drafted a guy that is suppose to be a return guy about every year. Is it the player or those that block for him?

Bronco Boy
03-20-2010, 05:01 PM
It doesn't really matter who the running backs are if they can't get past the line of scrimmage due to crappy blocking.

mr007
03-20-2010, 05:03 PM
If someone could guarantee me he would be as dominating as CJ, I'd say yes. Since you can't, we have more pressing needs.

baja
03-20-2010, 05:07 PM
A backfield of Moreno and Spiller would be amazing, and he has great value in the return game. Perhaps his best usage would come as a receiver out of the backfield, since our new offense loves screen plays. I would not be upset with drafting Spiller at all. He has that special "it" factor, he is just an electric player. A rare talent. I have been saying he is this drafts Percy Harvin, in terms of the immediate impact he could have.


However, I have not yet joined the camp that is advocating it. He may be the BPA when we pick, but he certainly doesn't fill the biggest need. Not even close. We most likely won't be looking at center or guard if we stay at 11, so I expect it to be a defensive selection for a need position. I don't want us to take Dez Bryant, and hope we retain Marshall. So if one of these 3 names is called I will be a happy guy: Rolando McClain, Dan Williams, C.J. Spiller.

I would love McCain but his Crones disease is energy sapping. It is a serious handy cap for an NFL player especially a three down player. That position is so important that you want a sure fire guy to play it and with the Crones disease it is too risky IMO I would be OK with Dan Williams but still think C.J. Spiller would add more than any other player at 11.

NFLBRONCO
03-20-2010, 05:10 PM
If someone could guarantee me he would be as dominating as CJ, I'd say yes. Since you can't, we have more pressing needs.

The needs we have don't fit 11th pick. I want more help on OL/DL but, not at 11. The best players I see are Spiller and Dez worth 11th pick. Who knows both might go in top 10 we'll see.

Caligula
03-20-2010, 05:12 PM
I can't see justifying spending another 1st round pick for a RB. That just makes no sense

Hogan11
03-20-2010, 05:13 PM
Not a chance

baja
03-20-2010, 05:13 PM
I've also seen Sproles **** the bed against teams with real defenses, draw no interest in free agency, show near nothing last year, and yet somehow still end up making 7 million. if your example is Sproles, you only hurt the cause.

What do you mean "No interest" there were six teams chomping at the bit to sign Sproles.

And my example is the man himself, C.J. Spiller.

Who would help us more at 11?

baja
03-20-2010, 05:14 PM
It doesn't really matter who the running backs are if they can't get past the line of scrimmage due to crappy blocking.

Agreed but we can fix the O line without using thew 11 pick on an OL.

We can have C.J. Spiller and a good line.

Pony Boy
03-20-2010, 05:15 PM
Take Toby Gerheart in a later round, it will help fill the Hillis hole in my heart.

baja
03-20-2010, 05:16 PM
The needs we have don't fit 11th pick. I want more help on OL/DL but, not at 11. The best players I see are Spiller and Dez worth 11th pick. Who knows both might go in top 10 we'll see.

We already got a Dez type his name is Brandon Marshall.

You want to rid yourself of one head case only to draft, at 11 no less, another head case?

Hogan11
03-20-2010, 05:20 PM
We already got a Dez type his name is Brandon Marshall.

You want to rid yourself of one head case only to draft, at 11 no less, another head case?

I've been told that it's an unwritten rule that every team has to have one.

baja
03-20-2010, 05:21 PM
well lets keep the one we got than.

Hogan11
03-20-2010, 05:23 PM
well lets keep the one we got than.

Probably will....and if you think he was acting up last year, just wait till this one (no contract, no interest, no (sob) appreciation) Yikes!

The circus will be back in town. They'll probably take Dez as insurance

baja
03-20-2010, 05:27 PM
Probably will....and if you think he was acting up last year, just wait till this one (no contract, no interest, no (sob) appreciation) Yikes!

The circus will be back in town.

I don't know about that. Brandon is in a tough spot. If he wants to get paid he knows he has to show maturity this season. The Broncos hold all the cards on this one. It will cost Brandon millions if he does what you say he will. I think he comes in and has a monster year.

Hogan11
03-20-2010, 05:32 PM
I don't know about that. Brandon is in a tough spot. If he wants to get paid he knows he has to show maturity this season. The Broncos hold all the cards on this one. It will cost Brandon millions if he does what you say he will. I think he comes in and has a monster year.

I have absolutely zero faith in him.

Although I'd rather see picks for the lines, the Dez pick makes sense as insurance and as the eventual replacement.

baja
03-20-2010, 05:37 PM
I have absolutely zero faith in him.

Although I'd rather see picks for the lines, the Dez pick makes sense as insurance and as the eventual replacement.

At least we are paying Marshall 4th round money we get Dez and he proves to be another head case and we pay him #11 money - I no likey

gtown
03-20-2010, 05:51 PM
Spiller may be BPA at #11. The Broncos need an infusion of talent even if we have some redundancies. We can get good interior lineman in later rounds.

Plus Spiller is a special player and would give us a constant home run threat who can rack up yards in ST, running, and passing. Have we ever had a player like that? Especially one as historically proficient as Spiller was in college?

meangene
03-20-2010, 05:58 PM
Weatherspoon and Spiller are my two picks for #11 right now. I would be happy with either.

gtown
03-20-2010, 06:03 PM
Weatherspoon and Spiller are my two picks for #11 right now. I would be happy with either.

If we had a late first rounder we could get both. It would suck to lose Marshall, but if we got Spoon with that pick, I would feel a whole lot better. Spiller and Spoon? I would **** a gold brick.

NFLBRONCO
03-20-2010, 06:07 PM
We already got a Dez type his name is Brandon Marshall.

You want to rid yourself of one head case only to draft, at 11 no less, another head case?

I didn't say we should take Dez he might be the BPA at 11. Pretty sad when you think all the needs we have that their isn't more clear cut must have's at our pick in a huge need area.

Arkansas Bronco
03-20-2010, 06:12 PM
Id like to see just a OL/LB entire draft with a punter thrown in. If we deal BMarsh then a couple wr's. Yea I said draft on needs cause it seems like unless we guess right in the late rounds we piss away on drafting on potential.

robbieopperude
03-20-2010, 06:12 PM
I wouldn't mind taking Dez Bryant to go along with Marshall. I know McD likes his power running game but the BPA at 11 is likely going to be Dez, D.Williams who is moving up boards rapidly, Spiller, and the Safety from Texas. His name escapes me at the moment but he is very highly rated by some scouts.

meangene
03-20-2010, 06:14 PM
If we had a late first rounder we could get both. It would suck to lose Marshall, but if we got Spoon with that pick, I would feel a whole lot better. Spiller and Spoon? I would **** a gold brick.

:~ohyah!:

LRtagger
03-20-2010, 06:23 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't be completely opposed to it...but I would fear we would head in the same direction as Carolina. Where they have DeAngelo Williams and J-Stew. Two first round RBs selected three years apart. Now look where they are...rebuilding mode while their two stud RBs get older.

The only difference being Carolina had the luxury of being able to take that chance because in 08 they had two first round picks and were still able to pick up their LT with the other pick.

The sad thing is if we dont make that (what looks to be) stupid trade for Phonzy, we would have the luxury of selecting Spiller at say 14 and still select a guy like McClain or Williams at 11.

This coming from a guy who generally is a McDaniels supporter.

tsiguy96
03-20-2010, 06:46 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't be completely opposed to it...but I would fear we would head in the same direction as Carolina. Where they have DeAngelo Williams and J-Stew. Two first round RBs selected three years apart. Now look where they are...rebuilding mode while their two stud RBs get older.

The only difference being Carolina had the luxury of being able to take that chance because in 08 they had two first round picks and were still able to pick up their LT with the other pick.

The sad thing is if we dont make that (what looks to be) stupid trade for Phonzy, we would have the luxury of selecting Spiller at say 14 and still select a guy like McClain or Williams at 11.

This coming from a guy who generally is a McDaniels supporter.

i really hope phons is capable next year of unseating goodman, and not due to injury.

spdirty
03-20-2010, 06:54 PM
Well, I guess I need to watch the first round on my crappy tv, with nothing but pillows surrounding me, in case we do take Spiller.

tsiguy96
03-20-2010, 07:03 PM
Well, I guess I need to watch the first round on my crappy tv, with nothing but pillows surrounding me, in case we do take Spiller.

i wouldnt be too worried if we took him, hes a ridiculous talent thats as fast as chris johnson and tore apart a lot of teams in college. hes not a bad or wasted pick by any means. however, he may not fit the teams needs as much as another guy would (but then again, if that other guy is a total reach and spiller is or near BPA, as they say you can never have enough great football players)

baja
03-20-2010, 07:14 PM
Who doesn't need a home run threat in the passing running and return game?

That is what C.J. Spiller is folks.

Not to mention Orton will be a better QB just by having C.J. Spiller on the field.

Caligula
03-20-2010, 07:19 PM
There is no way to justify a spiller pick for the Broncos. Not after using a top pick last year for the same position. All your first round going to RBs? A position that has a history of short lived careers? A position that is considered the easiest to play in the NFL? A position that starters can be foound later in the draft for much less money?

A RB doesn't even fit into the McD offense.... not to mention having a use for yet ANOTHER 1st round pick. He spent last season doing his best just to justify Moreno.

Man.. makes me just want to put my head through a wall thinking of using another first round pick on a RB again.

Carmelo15
03-20-2010, 07:26 PM
Take Toby Gerheart in a later round, it will help fill the Hillis hole in my heart.

Ah yes, the overhyped white running back.

Caligula
03-20-2010, 07:29 PM
Ah yes, the overhyped white running back.

let me guess. You think he's overhyped because he's white. I guess we should start going around and talk about the over-hyped black RB.. or the wasted black QB. Talk about the WR is purely talked about because he's black or hispanic.

The Stanford boy is a stud.... white or black

baja
03-20-2010, 07:34 PM
There is no way to justify a spiller pick for the Broncos. Not after using a top pick last year for the same position. All your first round going to RBs? A position that has a history of short lived careers? A position that is considered the easiest to play in the NFL? A position that starters can be foound later in the draft for much less money?

A RB doesn't even fit into the McD offense.... not to mention having a use for yet ANOTHER 1st round pick. He spent last season doing his best just to justify Moreno.

Man.. makes me just want to put my head through a wall thinking of using another first round pick on a RB again.He's not just a running back.

He would be a great receiving target for Orton a guy that would be a home run threat running or receiving and on ST a great return threat.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-20-2010, 07:47 PM
Can we please draft on the O or D line?

baja
03-20-2010, 07:48 PM
Can we please draft on the O or D line?

Who would you like at 11?

Bronco Boy
03-20-2010, 07:49 PM
Seriously, RB is the least of our problems.

Tombstone RJ
03-20-2010, 07:56 PM
This would give us a young running back tandem for the next several seasons. We need playmakers on Offense to help our above average but still developing QBs. We can get the O line help in the later rounds

C.J. Spiller would give us a great returner as well, another area of need on this team.

Spiller would give us immediate help more so than any other player in the draft we could reasonably expect to draft.

Yah, sure, why not? Seriously, if he can impact your offense immediately, why not take him? Moreno will have a little more incentive to make up for a subpar rookie year. Address either the oline or dline with best player available in the second.

spdirty
03-20-2010, 08:31 PM
i wouldnt be too worried if we took him, hes a ridiculous talent thats as fast as chris johnson and tore apart a lot of teams in college. hes not a bad or wasted pick by any means. however, he may not fit the teams needs as much as another guy would (but then again, if that other guy is a total reach and spiller is or near BPA, as they say you can never have enough great football players)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIFwBp0xVPU

Doesnt look like he is big enough to get the tough 3rd and 1 straight up the middle. Thanks, but Id rather have a big fat guard or center instead.

NFLBRONCO
03-20-2010, 08:34 PM
Seriously, RB is the least of our problems.

Maybe but, I don't see how you'd complain majorly adding SPEED to a very slow offense.

baja
03-20-2010, 08:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIFwBp0xVPU

Doesnt look like he is big enough to get the tough 3rd and 1 straight up the middle. Thanks, but Id rather have a big fat guard or center instead.

At 11???

You can get both later, good ones too.

tsiguy96
03-20-2010, 08:37 PM
Maybe but, I don't see how you'd complain majorly adding SPEED to a very slow offense.

pretty much. its not a bad pick by any means, but maybe not ideal.

NFLBRONCO
03-20-2010, 08:39 PM
At 11???

You can get both later, good ones too.

I agree Baja I just don't see any player other then Spiller if he's there at 11. I can see Seattle and Buff targeting him though.

DBroncos4life
03-20-2010, 09:01 PM
What do you mean "No interest" there were six teams chomping at the bit to sign Sproles.

And my example is the man himself, C.J. Spiller.

Who would help us more at 11?

People that tackle and people that block. Since 1999 the Pats have draft (when they have a first rounder) a center, defensive tackle, tight end, defensive end, defensive tackle/nose guard, guard, running back, safety, and linebacker. If we are going to model our team around the Pats we should at least us the method that brought the core of their championship runs.

HAT
03-20-2010, 09:03 PM
I would've hated this pick last month but after the FA DL signings........I'm down.

If he was just an RB....no. But like baja said, he's a weapon that can be used all over the field. If BM gets traded on Draft day, there's an even bigger need for a bona fide play maker.

A draft like this would work just fine for me.....
RD1A Spiller RB/X factor
RD1B Iupati G
RD2 Spikes ILB
RD3 Decker WR
RD4 Olsen C
RD6 OL depth
RD7 P


Mock's head would explode with all those picks on offense but that fills a lot of needs IMO.

Spiller and Iupati contribute immediately, Spikes fills the Davis void, Decker is an immediate #3-4 WR with a good shot at being the #1 possession guy to Royals speedster role in 2011.

DBroncos4life
03-20-2010, 09:06 PM
I would've hated this pick last month but after the FA DL signings........I'm down.

If he was just an RB....no. But like baja said, he's a weapon that can be used all over the field. If BM gets traded on Draft day, there's an even bigger need for a bona fide play maker.

A draft like this would work just fine for me.....
RD1A Spiller RB/X factor
RD1B Iupati G
RD2 Spikes ILB
RD3 Decker WR
RD4 Olsen C
RD6 OL depth
RD7 P


Mock's head would explode with all those picks on offense but that fills a lot of needs IMO.

Spiller and Iupati contribute immediately, Spikes fills the Davis void, Decker is an immediate #3-4 WR with a good shot at being the #1 possession guy to Royals speedster role in 2011.
lol you want to draft a LB that just ran a 5.00 40 time in the second round?

HAT
03-20-2010, 09:11 PM
People that tackle and people that block. Since 1999 the Pats have draft (when they have a first rounder) a center, defensive tackle, tight end, defensive end, defensive tackle/nose guard, guard, running back, safety, and linebacker. If we are going to model our team around the Pats we should at least us the method that brought the core of their championship runs.

In bold....Either not a need or not worth looking at with #11.

From your list, that leaves DL/RB/LB. If you have Spiller rated higher than the 3-4 DL lineman available & McClain, than you pull the trigger.

HAT
03-20-2010, 09:13 PM
lol you want to draft a LB that just ran a 5.00 40 time in the second round?

That's the reason he will be available @ #45 (barely)

BPA DL works fine for me in round 2 as well.

DBroncos4life
03-20-2010, 09:14 PM
In bold....Either not a need or not worth looking at with #11.

From your list, that leaves DL/RB/LB. If you have Spiller rated higher than the 3-4 DL lineman available & McClain, than you pull the trigger.

Did you notice that they never picked people from the same position in back to back years?

Baba Booey
03-20-2010, 09:22 PM
Spiller would be a game changer a la Sproles like baja said. A home run threat like that is something any offense could use.

I don't think it will happen, but Spiller could very well be BPA at 11 so who knows?

After watching him torch my Miami Hurricanes year after year I really couldn't be opposed to picking him. He's very similar to Chris Johnson.

DBroncos4life
03-20-2010, 09:23 PM
That's the reason he will be available @ #45 (barely)

Not many people think he is second round material. Todd McShay thinks the third round is a very strong possibility now. He was on a faster track then what the players run on during the combine and he still managed to run the slowest 40 time by any LB in the draft. We already have a hard enough time matching up our LB's to cover TE's. Drafting a LB in the second round that couldn't out run molasses is a poor idea.

HAT
03-20-2010, 09:23 PM
Did you notice that they never picked people from the same position in back to back years?

Yes....And to me, that is the only negative aspect. It's a luxury pick that looks a lot better if BM gets traded for an additional 1st rounder.

Nobody is making the point that RB is a need (And I like Moreno)...But what team doesn't need play making home run threats?

If we are stuck with #11 and ONLY #11....than I don't like it as much but it wouldn't bug me. BPA approach works for me better than reaching on a perceived need. If they are going to do that, I'd just assume they take Iupati and be done with it.

HAT
03-20-2010, 09:30 PM
Drafting a LB in the second round that couldn't out run molasses is a poor idea.

And drafting one @ 11 that ran a 4.71 at his pro day AND has Crohn's isn't? :wiggle:

baja
03-20-2010, 09:31 PM
Did you notice that they never picked people from the same position in back to back years?

If he were just another running back you would have a point

DBroncos4life
03-20-2010, 09:34 PM
Yes....And to me, that is the only negative aspect. It's a luxury pick that looks a lot better if BM gets traded for an additional 1st rounder.

Nobody is making the point that RB is a need (And I like Moreno)...But what team doesn't need play making home run threats?

If we are stuck with #11 and ONLY #11....than I don't like it as much but it wouldn't bug me. BPA approach works for me better than reaching on a perceived need. If they are going to do that, I'd just assume they take Iupati and be done with it.

It's not how the Pats work period. Who is the fastest on that team? Moss? The never have much speed at the RB position and very rarely do they make sexy picks like Spiller would be. Besides that McD seems to have a lot of love for Arrington. I think he is the guy he wants as a return man. I would wager that we would trade down and try and add more picks before we drafted Spiller.

HAT
03-20-2010, 09:35 PM
If he were just another running back you would have a point

Also....I've been seeing Spiller mocked to SF @ 13 quite a bit. And they've got Gore AND Coffee in the fold already.

baja
03-20-2010, 09:39 PM
Also....I've been seeing Spiller mocked to SF @ 13 quite a bit. And they've got Gore AND Coffee in the fold already.

Just to be clear I, like you, am not in love with this pick but it makes sense for our team. If he is there at 11 and we were unable to trade down than he is the best use of the pick.

Baba Booey
03-20-2010, 09:40 PM
Just to be clear I, like you, am not in love with this pick but it makes sense for our team. If he is there at 11 and we were unable to trade down than he is the best use of the pick.

I'll have to agree with this sentiment. I would prefer we just take Spiller at 11 than reach for need.

DBroncos4life
03-20-2010, 09:40 PM
And drafting one @ 11 that ran a 4.71 at his pro day AND has Crohn's isn't? :wiggle:

lol I never said McClain at 11th after his Crohn's. McClain has his own set of flaws but even with Crohn's he still is a better player then Spikes. I'll take a LB that runs 4.7 over a LB 5.00 any Sunday. Hell I bet there was 15 players on the DL/OL that ran faster then 5.00 in the 40.

tsiguy96
03-20-2010, 09:46 PM
lol I never said McClain at 11th after his Crohn's. McClain has his own set of flaws but even with Crohn's he still is a better player then Spikes. I'll take a LB that runs 4.7 over a LB 5.00 any Sunday. Hell I bet there was 15 players on the DL/OL that ran faster then 5.00 in the 40.

yea, 5.0 is very, very bad. normally i dont put a ton of stock into these numbers, but that is such a huge red flag that it almost has to make you basically cross him off your list. him trying to cover an NFL TE or WR? yea right.

NFLBRONCO
03-20-2010, 09:48 PM
Ali highsmith went undrafted I can see the same with Spikes.

DBroncos4life
03-20-2010, 09:55 PM
If he were just another running back you would have a point

So he is a change of pace back and a KR in our system? You want to use the 11th pick on that? He's not a very good third down back because he is poor in pass protection.
I'd rather take my chances with Jahvid Best slipping to the 2nd round.

HAT
03-20-2010, 10:03 PM
lol I never said McClain at 11th after his Crohn's.

I understand that. But in trying to make a point about how the Pat's built their dynasty with what positions they drafted in the 1st round.....We were left with DL/RB/LB after eliminating DB's & non-tackle OL-men because it's either not a need or the position would be a traditional reach at #11.

So now we can basically eliminate LB as well. What available 3-4 DL-man would Denver have to pass on for you to not find taking Spiller as BPA at #11 acceptable?

KipCorrington25
03-20-2010, 10:06 PM
Can we retroactivly trade last year's 12th pick because we wasted it on a slow, fumble prone, non special teams version of Glynn Milburn...

baja
03-20-2010, 10:08 PM
So he is a change of pace back and a KR in our system? You want to use the 11th pick on that? He's not a very good third down back because he is poor in pass protection.
I'd rather take my chances with Jahvid Best slipping to the 2nd round.

Fine... Who do you take at 11 than?

DBroncos4life
03-20-2010, 10:20 PM
Fine... Who do you take at 11 than?

I don't know. I can tell you this Spiller wasn't regarded by many as a top 15 pick till the combine when he ran a impressive 40 time. Players like McClain, Williams, Berry, Derrick Morgan, Dez Bryant, Jason Pierre-Paul and Jared Odrick would be higher on my wish list then Spiller.

Tombstone RJ
03-20-2010, 10:26 PM
I don't know. I can tell you this Spiller wasn't regarded by many as a top 15 pick till the combine when he ran a impressive 40 time. Players like McClain, Williams, Berry, Derrick Morgan, Dez Bryant, Jason Pierre-Paul and Jared Odrick would be higher on my wish list then Spiller.

He's still considered the best RB in the draft and a guy that could be special in the NFL. I'd love a backfield with Moreno and Spiller...

DBroncos4life
03-20-2010, 10:36 PM
He's still considered the best RB in the draft and a guy that could be special in the NFL. I'd love a backfield with Moreno and Spiller...

That isn't saying much IMO. I don't think this is a great RB class at the top. I'm not trying to hate on Spiller, I just don't get this new found hype around him. I think the drop off in talent between Spiller to Best isn't all that much do so I see much more value in Best.

The problem with Best is there is so much talent to be had in the second round at other positions. 11th is a crappy spot in this draft.

baja
03-20-2010, 10:43 PM
I don't know. I can tell you this Spiller wasn't regarded by many as a top 15 pick till the combine when he ran a impressive 40 time. Players like McClain, Williams, Berry, Derrick Morgan, Dez Bryant, Jason Pierre-Paul and Jared Odrick would be higher on my wish list then Spiller.

McClain - debilitating illness

Williams - not bad but we can get a good tackle later.

Berry - won't be there if he is it's a no brainer take him

Morgan won't be there if he is take him.

Dez Bryant head case no thank you.

Jason Pierre-Paul - to high

Jared Odrick - too high

worm
03-20-2010, 10:44 PM
Every year there is a CJ Spiller...or a Vernon Davis...or a Mike Williams (hi baja :welcome:) or some other skill player that everyone oohs and ahs over.

Denver needs to resist the temptation and select the BPA in the front 7 on D or on the OL.

Don't succumb to the ESPiN highlight reels!

If the Broncos deal Marshall...then they can use that #1 on a skill position. Not before.

Hamrob
03-20-2010, 10:51 PM
i heard a stat the other day, anyone have the exact stat?

he has 50 some TDs in college, and over 20 of them were from 50+ yards.I don't know...I hear he only had like 14 100yd games his entire College career?

DBroncos4life
03-20-2010, 10:53 PM
McClain - debilitating illness Didn't stop him from being the best LB in College. He has far more issues to worry about then that.

Williams - not bad but we can get a good tackle later. Agree

Berry - won't be there if he is it's a no brainer take him Agree

Morgan won't be there if he is take him. Agree

Dez Bryant head case no thank you. WAY over blown.

Jason Pierre-Paul - to high Wrong

Jared Odrick - too high I know but he fills a need WAY better then Spiller

My responses in bold

baja
03-20-2010, 10:59 PM
Every year there is a CJ Spiller...or a Vernon Davis...or a Mike Williams (hi baja :welcome:) or some other skill player that everyone oohs and ahs over.

Denver needs to resist the temptation and select the BPA in the front 7 on D or on the OL.

Don't succumb to the ESPiN highlight reels!

If the Broncos deal Marshall...then they can use that #1 on a skill position. Not before.

Ha ha ya got me worm.

I did want Mike Williams (Good memory) In my defense I still think he would have had a far different career had Mike Shanahan got ahold of him..

Broncoman13
03-20-2010, 11:04 PM
I don't know. I can tell you this Spiller wasn't regarded by many as a top 15 pick till the combine when he ran a impressive 40 time. Players like McClain, Williams, Berry, Derrick Morgan, Dez Bryant, Jason Pierre-Paul and Jared Odrick would be higher on my wish list then Spiller.

Spiller was regarded as a high first round pick before the season ever started. And his 40 time was actually slower than most expected. He has run a sub 4.3 in the past, his speed isn't new!

worm
03-20-2010, 11:10 PM
Ha ha ya got me worm.

I did want Mike Williams (Good memory) In my defense I still think he would have had a far different career had Mike Shanahan got ahold of him..

Sorry Baja. Couldn't pass up the :poke: Its the law that I mention it any time you advocate for a specific draft pick.

baja
03-20-2010, 11:14 PM
Sorry Baja. Couldn't pass up the :poke: Its the law that I mention it any time you advocate for a specific draft pick.

Ya TheDave never misses a chance to remind be about my crush on Darius Watts.

Guess receivers are not my area of expertise. ;D

What was your biggest miss?

DBroncos4life
03-20-2010, 11:28 PM
Spiller was regarded as a high first round pick before the season ever started. And his 40 time was actually slower than most expected. He has run a sub 4.3 in the past, his speed isn't new!

Top ten high? He had a first round grade on pretty much every mock but not that high. That is pretty high for a guy that they view as a change of pace back.

Also find me where people thought he was faster then a 4.3

Broncoman13
03-20-2010, 11:29 PM
Mine was probably Lelie as far as the Broncos are concerned. Overall... Probably Rashan Salaam or Akili Smith followed closely by Curtis Enis and Dwayne Robertson.

cutthemdown
03-20-2010, 11:29 PM
I think Broncos will take a RB, but I would be shocked if it was one of the high picks they used. I would be really surprised to see them use a first day pick on a RB.

I think Broncos will take 2 interior olineman by the end of the 5th round. Probably 1 true center, and then a guard/center type prospect.

Then for sure some WR.

Broncoman13
03-20-2010, 11:34 PM
Top ten high? He had a first round grade on pretty much every mock but not that high. That is pretty high for a guy that they view as a change of pace back.

How quickly you forget about the Chris Johnson effect! All season long that is all you heard... CJ Spiller, the next Chris Johnson. Size and speed are very similar but Spiller isn't nearly as instinctive or strong. Personally, I think 12-17 is the right slotting for Spiller, but it wouldn't surprise me if he went higher. Copycat league and a lot of teams will be looking to repeat the CJ magic. One thing I can pretty much assure you, he will not get past 14 as long as the Shehawks keep that pick!

Broncoman13
03-20-2010, 11:37 PM
I think Broncos will take a RB, but I would be shocked if it was one of the high picks they used. I would be really surprised to see them use a first day pick on a RB.

I think Broncos will take 2 interior olineman by the end of the 5th round. Probably 1 true center, and then a guard/center type prospect.

Then for sure some WR.

Jacoby Ford will be a Bronco. Hoping for Pouncey and Trent Williams as well! Gonna have to use some picks to move up and make it happen though.

DBroncos4life
03-20-2010, 11:55 PM
How quickly you forget about the Chris Johnson effect! All season long that is all you heard... CJ Spiller, the next Chris Johnson. Size and speed are very similar but Spiller isn't nearly as instinctive or strong. Personally, I think 12-17 is the right slotting for Spiller, but it wouldn't surprise me if he went higher. Copycat league and a lot of teams will be looking to repeat the CJ magic. One thing I can pretty much assure you, he will not get past 14 as long as the Shehawks keep that pick!

I understand that. Also I believe had Jahvid Best not took that shot that kept him out of the finial four games people would be all over his nuts instead of Spillers. Up till that game Best was viewed as unstoppable.

Broncoman13
03-21-2010, 12:09 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/acc/2008-07-29-sw-clemson_N.htm

Broncoman13
03-21-2010, 12:25 AM
http://www.gridironstuds.com/blog/the-fastest-40-yard-dash-ever/comment-page-1/

pretty interesting article. I guess several scouts had Spiller under 4.3 at the combine as well. Keep in mind, the combine electronic times are only partially electronic. Starts are hand started which is why scouts still gather their own times.

DBroncos4life
03-21-2010, 12:47 AM
http://www.gridironstuds.com/blog/the-fastest-40-yard-dash-ever/comment-page-1/

pretty interesting article. I guess several scouts had Spiller under 4.3 at the combine as well. Keep in mind, the combine electronic times are only partially electronic. Starts are hand started which is why scouts still gather their own times.
I don't know how they clocked him at a unofficial time of 4.27 and then have his official time at 4.37. I would like to see who is really faster Best or Spiller. The biggest difference I see between the two is the concussion's for Best. Like I said in my opinion had he not been hurt and missed the finial four games he would have been viewed as the best RB in the draft.

Lomax
03-21-2010, 01:09 AM
If we took C.J. Spiller we wouldn't be able to draft this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjLh_yO41jw

DBroncos4life
03-21-2010, 01:21 AM
While I think Best at pick 45 would give us everything Spiller would at 11 (complimentary, homerun threat, return man), I do however think that Spiller would have better value because of there are not as many sure lock players to select at 11.

Someone else pointed out that if Trent Williams was there at 11 they would love to see Denver draft him because of his ability to play everywhere on the OL. That isn't a bad idea at all.

Borks147
03-21-2010, 01:21 AM
*fap fap fap* 40 times *fap fap fap*

tatum bell had the best 40 time back in the day too...or at least he tells that to his cell phone customers.

SouthStndJunkie
03-21-2010, 01:26 AM
I'd have no problem drafting C.J. Spiller at 11.

There is a good chance he will be the BPA at 11 and the team could use an infusion of speed on offense and in the return game.

Knowshon and Spiller would be a nice duo. You can line Spiller up in the slot as well, and he is a dynamic punt returner. Sometimes when you see a game breaker on the draft board, you have to take him.

He is a valuable chess piece that can be used in many ways.

Lomax
03-21-2010, 01:48 AM
I'd have no problem drafting C.J. Spiller at 11.

There is a good chance he will be the BPA at 11 and the team could use an infusion of speed on offense and in the return game.

Knowshon and Spiller would be a nice duo. You can line Spiller up in the slot as well, and he is a dynamic punt returner. Sometimes when you see a game breaker on the draft board, you have to take him.

He is a valuable chess piece that can be used in many ways.

We have no power backs, and sent the one guy who most resembled one of those to Cleveland. There are several bigger backs in the draft, and we're going to scout Gerhart on the 30th. He fits the offensive concept of a big, physical, move-the-chains type we would want. I'm pretty certain that's the type of guy we're looking for.

SouthStndJunkie
03-21-2010, 01:58 AM
We have no power backs, and sent the one guy who most resembled one of those to Cleveland. There are several bigger backs in the draft, and we're going to scout Gerhart on the 30th. He fits the offensive concept of a big, physical, move-the-chains type we would want. I'm pretty certain that's the type of guy we're looking for.

If I'm looking for a power back, I'll take LeGarrette Blount or Anthony Dixon in the 4th round (although I think Blount ends up going in the 3rd round) over Toby Gerhart in the 2nd round.

That said, I think this team needs an influx of speed on offense.

JJJ
03-21-2010, 02:52 AM
As a Charger fan it would be great if you waste a first round pick on Spiller. Then you will be able to say McD wasted both first round picks in 2010.

elsid13
03-21-2010, 06:02 AM
I don't know. I can tell you this Spiller wasn't regarded by many as a top 15 pick till the combine when he ran a impressive 40 time. Players like McClain, Williams, Berry, Derrick Morgan, Dez Bryant, Jason Pierre-Paul and Jared Odrick would be higher on my wish list then Spiller.

Spillier has always been a special back that destined to be first rounder. The kid might be the fastest person I have every seen with football in his hands. I still remember watching his first TD 50 plus yarder leaving defenders in the dust. The speed he showed at the combined is displayed on the field unlike some 40 guys.

What I like best about him is that he actually will run between tackles and get the tough yards, he not a power back but a faster version Portis. If we were a ZBS I would serious consider him, because he has that one cut a go style.

elsid13
03-21-2010, 06:03 AM
If I'm looking for a power back, I'll take LeGarrette Blount or Anthony Dixon in the 4th round (although I think Blount ends up going in the 3rd round) over Toby Gerhart in the 2nd round.

That said, I think this team needs an influx of speed on offense.

Dixon is a power type guy, Blount isn't he more of zone runner with size.

Lomax
03-21-2010, 07:05 AM
If I'm looking for a power back, I'll take LeGarrette Blount or Anthony Dixon in the 4th round (although I think Blount ends up going in the 3rd round) over Toby Gerhart in the 2nd round.

That said, I think this team needs an influx of speed on offense.

Spiller is said to be more of an outside runner. Trouble is, the Broncos are becoming an inside running team in the new offense. Doesn't really seem to be a fit.

I'm not quibbling over who we get as much as I'm suggesting that the coaching staff is not looking for a home run threat at the RB position as much as a big inside runner who can come in and move the pile. Considering that was our worst area last season, it would make more sense than getting an outside runner who doesn't help in that area, wouldn't you say?

baja
03-21-2010, 07:08 AM
I'd have no problem drafting C.J. Spiller at 11.

There is a good chance he will be the BPA at 11 and the team could use an infusion of speed on offense and in the return game.

Knowshon and Spiller would be a nice duo. You can line Spiller up in the slot as well, and he is a dynamic punt returner. Sometimes when you see a game breaker on the draft board, you have to take him.

<b>He is a valuable chess piece that can be used in many ways.

Well reasoned post Junkman. I like the chess piece analogy it says it perfectly.

baja
03-21-2010, 07:17 AM
Spiller is said to be more of an outside runner. Trouble is, the Broncos are becoming an inside running team in the new offense. Doesn't really seem to be a fit.

I'm not quibbling over who we get as much as I'm suggesting that the coaching staff is not looking for a home run threat at the RB position as much as a big inside runner who can come in and move the pile. Considering that was our worst area last season, it would make more sense than getting an outside runner who doesn't help in that area, wouldn't you say?

Our problem running up the middle was not so much with the backs but was an issue with the line, our ZBS guys just could not power block. I think this was McD's biggest coaching mistake trying to make our Oline guys into something they were not suited for.

Again as many have said it is not a running back you would be drafting at 11 but a multi dimensional game breaking threat, something we have not had, well maybe ever.

Broncoman13
03-21-2010, 08:44 AM
I don't know how they clocked him at a unofficial time of 4.27 and then have his official time at 4.37. I would like to see who is really faster Best or Spiller. The biggest difference I see between the two is the concussion's for Best. Like I said in my opinion had he not been hurt and missed the finial four games he would have been viewed as the best RB in the draft.

B/C the scouts still keep hand held times. The "official" times are a hand held start with an electronic stop at the end of the 40. Still, it's not 100% accurate b/c there is still the human element at the start. Again, this is why many of the scouts keep their own times rather than relying on the official times.

Cito Pelon
03-21-2010, 09:05 AM
I want the club to build the D up to be at perennially superb level, so no to Spiller.

Tombstone RJ
03-21-2010, 09:09 AM
We have no power backs, and sent the one guy who most resembled one of those to Cleveland. There are several bigger backs in the draft, and we're going to scout Gerhart on the 30th. He fits the offensive concept of a big, physical, move-the-chains type we would want. I'm pretty certain that's the type of guy we're looking for.

I don't think the spread offense that McD is developing has a need for a big RB. Did the Pats use a big RB in their system? Corey Dillon was about the biggest RB I remember for the Pats the last 10 years. The one RB who has been in their system for a long time is Kevin Faulk and he's not really big, neither is the RB from Minnesota who Shanny coveted so much...

SouthStndJunkie
03-21-2010, 09:36 AM
Dixon is a power type guy, Blount isn't he more of zone runner with size.

Blount would be good in a ZBS or a PBS in my opinion and is a dude that is big and strong enough to run over and through defenders and also athletic and quick enough to make a cut and go. I think his skill set is adequate for any style.

If he keeps himself in check and stays out of trouble, he will be a stud on the next level.

NFLBRONCO
03-21-2010, 09:39 AM
I'd have no problem drafting C.J. Spiller at 11.

There is a good chance he will be the BPA at 11 and the team could use an infusion of speed on offense and in the return game.

Knowshon and Spiller would be a nice duo. You can line Spiller up in the slot as well, and he is a dynamic punt returner. Sometimes when you see a game breaker on the draft board, you have to take him.

He is a valuable chess piece that can be used in many ways.

Exactly great post junkman

baja
03-21-2010, 09:50 AM
I want the club to build the D up to be at perennially superb level, so no to Spiller.

What defensive player that is likely to be available at 11 would you take?

HAT
03-21-2010, 09:55 AM
One thing I can pretty much assure you, he will not get past 14 as long as the Shehawks keep that pick!

Seattle may well end up being a trading partner again.

If PC really has CJ in his sights....you'd think there would be enough a worry that Miami or SF would pull the trigger.

How would you guys feel about swapping #11 for #14 & #60? :strong:

Requiem
03-21-2010, 09:57 AM
Spiller is personally my number one offensive prospect for the Broncos on my list of players in all this draft, and would love him to be on our team.

baja
03-21-2010, 10:01 AM
Seattle may well end up being a trading partner again.

If PC really has CJ in his sights....you'd think there would be enough a worry that Miami or SF would pull the trigger.

How would you guys feel about swapping #11 for #14 & #60? :strong:

That would be awesome as it is 11 is an awkward position for us.


http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/arts/photos/2008/07/08/5-untitled.jpg

400HZ
03-21-2010, 10:06 AM
I really hope you guys don't take him. I don't think you will. It would be tantamount to McDaniels saying he made the wrong call drafting Moreno as high as he did.

SouthStndJunkie
03-21-2010, 10:09 AM
Spiller is personally my number one offensive prospect for the Broncos on my list of players in all this draft, and would love him to be on our team.

Yep....I know there are other positions that might be better addressed at 11....but there will not be a better player on the board at 11.

The last thing we need to do at 11 is reach for need and take a player 10-15 spots higher than they should be going.

In 2007 the Titans had a young LenDale White, just coming off an 1100+ yard season where he looked like he was the future RB of the Titans. RB did not look like a need coming into the 2008 draft for them. The Titans were drafting in the first round in 2008 and saw a chance to add a lot of speed and dynamic play making ability with a super fast RB named Chris Johnson.

At the time, people wondered why they were taking another RB? Why? Because if you see a player you think will be dynamic and special, you take them. Doesn't matter if you have Knowshon Moreno or LenDale White on your roster already. There would be plenty of carries for Knowshon still. Having a second back like C.J. Spiller would probably give the Broncos more ROI from Knowshon in the long run. I like Knowshon and think he can be an above average back in the NFL, but he does not posses the special skill set of a C.J. Spiller. Those 2 would be an excellent combination.

Cito Pelon
03-21-2010, 10:14 AM
What defensive player that is likely to be available at 11 would you take?

Joe Haden, Dan Williams, Brandon Graham.

BroncoInferno
03-21-2010, 10:15 AM
I really hope you guys don't take him. I don't think you will. It would be tantamount to McDaniels saying he made the wrong call drafting Moreno as high as he did.

Not really. The two back system is coming into play again. Look at Carolina with Stewart and Williams. Did drafting Stewart in the 1st show that it was the wrong call to take Williams? Of course not. That has worked out pretty well for them. Moreno and Spiller would be an excellent duo and easy to justify because we need to upgrade the speed on offense and Spiller is excels all around as a runner, receiver, and returner.

Cito Pelon
03-21-2010, 10:31 AM
Yep....I know there are other positions that might be better addressed at 11....but there will not be a better player on the board at 11.

The last thing we need to do at 11 is reach for need and take a player 10-15 spots higher than they should be going.

In 2007 the Titans had a young LenDale White, just coming off an 1100+ yard season where he looked like he was the future RB of the Titans. RB did not look like a need coming into the 2008 draft for them. The Titans were drafting in the first round in 2008 and saw a chance to add a lot of speed and dynamic play making ability with a super fast RB named Chris Johnson.

At the time, people wondered why they were taking another RB? Why? Because if you see a player you think will be dynamic and special, you take them. Doesn't matter if you have Knowshon Moreno or LenDale White on your roster already. There would be plenty of carries for Knowshon still. Having a second back like C.J. Spiller would probably give the Broncos more ROI from Knowshon in the long run. I like Knowshon and think he can be an above average back in the NFL, but he does not posses the special skill set of a C.J. Spiller. Those 2 would be an excellent combination.

I want a defense again. Been a long time since we had one. Even if Ayers, Smith, McBath, Bruton, Baker play well in their second year it doesn't hurt to build the D up some more with this draft. The FA's are older guys just holding a place.

400HZ
03-21-2010, 10:31 AM
Not really. The two back system is coming into play again. Look at Carolina with Stewart and Williams. Did drafting Stewart in the 1st show that it was the wrong call to take Williams? Of course not. That has worked out pretty well for them. Moreno and Spiller would be an excellent duo and easy to justify because we need to upgrade the speed on offense and Spiller is excels all around as a runner, receiver, and returner.

They were taken 3 years apart and Williams really hadn't done much up until they drafted Stewart. There's a big difference between being drafted 12th and being drafted 27th, too.

Cito Pelon
03-21-2010, 11:00 AM
They were taken 3 years apart and Williams really hadn't done much up until they drafted Stewart. There's a big difference between being drafted 12th and being drafted 27th, too.

You want Spiller, right?

Tombstone RJ
03-21-2010, 11:02 AM
They were taken 3 years apart and Williams really hadn't done much up until they drafted Stewart. There's a big difference between being drafted 12th and being drafted 27th, too.

Your basically saying Moreno was a mistake. I happen to believe Moreno is going to be very productive in this offense. Regardless of whether the Broncos draft Spiller or not, Moreno is going to play and he's going to be better. He's actually a more rounded RB than Spiller. In fact, I'm willing to say that Moreno is the next great RB in the Broncos long line of great RBs.

The Joker
03-21-2010, 11:17 AM
Spiller and Moreno would actually be a tremendous RB tandem.

I know he struggled at times last year, but Moreno looks to me a guy who'll be very good at consistently moving the chains at the starting RB position for years to come. Once we get better on the interior O-Line I expect him to be a good short yardage/goal-line back. He's got a great ability to make himself very small and get an yard or two at the end of the run, which is invaluable in short yardage spots.

He'll never be a highlight reel/superstar playmaker sort of guy who can take over a game and put up close to 200 yards rushing in one game, but rather a very well rounded back who does most things well and can get that tough yard or two when you need it.

Spiller meanwhile doesn't look like an every down back to me, rather a guy who you can move around a bit and try and find different ways to get him the ball. I think he'd be best used as a Reggie Bush type, let him return kicks and give him 5-10 carries a game and use him as a receiver too. He'd certainly be a real threat in our screen/ short pass offense.

Realistically though I can't see it happening, as exciting as it would be. Consecutive high firsts on RB's? It's a lot of money tied up in one position.

400HZ
03-21-2010, 12:03 PM
You want Spiller, right?

:yep:

400HZ
03-21-2010, 12:06 PM
Your basically saying Moreno was a mistake. I happen to believe Moreno is going to be very productive in this offense. Regardless of whether the Broncos draft Spiller or not, Moreno is going to play and he's going to be better. He's actually a more rounded RB than Spiller. In fact, I'm willing to say that Moreno is the next great RB in the Broncos long line of great RBs.

Honestly I was rarely impressed by Moreno. He is what he is: a 4.6 runner. You can blame your offensive line if you want, but Buckhalter did pretty well behind it and he's a 31 year old journeyman.

mhgaffney
03-21-2010, 12:20 PM
Moreno rarely looked comfortable, last year.

He looked like he was trying too hard.

Many times, he was a half step away from breaking a long one. But he kept tripping over his own feet.

If the kid gains a half step, this year -- watch out..

tsiguy96
03-21-2010, 12:22 PM
Honestly I was rarely impressed by Moreno. He is what he is: a 4.6 runner. You can blame your offensive line if you want, but Buckhalter did pretty well behind it and he's a 31 year old journeyman.

buckhalter got the runs to the outside, much higher potential or a long run. moreno had to run behind our pathetic man blocking line, and it showed as he was constantly hit 2 yards behind the line.

Tombstone RJ
03-21-2010, 12:29 PM
Honestly I was rarely impressed by Moreno. He is what he is: a 4.6 runner. You can blame your offensive line if you want, but Buckhalter did pretty well behind it and he's a 31 year old journeyman.

Are you saying he's not going to pan out?

long beach bronco
03-21-2010, 12:43 PM
I have been wanting Spiller since day one, the truth is our offense sucks. If we draft Spiller our offense will not suck, plain and simple. We're going to draft somebody with the 11th pick, it might as well be CJ Spiller. When you can get a player that every time he steps on the field the defenses get nervous and on their toes, you take him.

400HZ
03-21-2010, 12:50 PM
Are you saying he's not going to pan out?

He's not going to get any faster.

Broncoman13
03-21-2010, 01:55 PM
Moreno's speed is plenty fast enough. He may not make a lot of plays that speed backs can make but he is a savvy runner that makes up for his speed in other ways. Moreno is more power than anything else anyhow. Take a look at his yards after first contact. Add to the fact that he played the entire year less than 100% and going through training that was less focused on football than any other time in his playing career. He'll come in to camp at 220-225 and in the best shape of his life. He is going to be an absolute beast this year. We're talking 4.8 yards per carry and double digit TDs.

P.S. Terrell Davis just called and said speed don't mean shiat.

Play2win
03-21-2010, 02:47 PM
I think why many players make big jumps in their 2nd and 3rd year nowadays, is because in the offseason of their rookie year, and leading up to the draft, they are seriously training for one thing, and one thing only-- The Combine and the sellability of their "product".

This is different, and some times quite different, than the shape/training/conditioning that they need to be in to be their most successful in the NFL.

It seems to takes them at least full year to be in Football Shape, instead of Combine Shape.

Drek
03-21-2010, 03:04 PM
He's not going to get any faster.

He was plenty fast enough to run all over the SEC, the fastest and most athletic conference in collegiate football.

He didn't run a good 40 because he's not a track guy, he's a football player. He played through injuries from day one last year, starting with an MCL that never really got 100% the rest of the season. If he can avoid injuries he'll tear it up in 2010 behind a line better suited to his and the offensive scheme's skills.

broncswin
03-21-2010, 03:33 PM
I lol at the haters of Mereno...this guy will only get better, he made the first guy miss on a high percentage, don't forget the first guy usually hit him in the backfield, this guy is gonna get it!! and to those who think speed is everything, think TD baby...

400HZ
03-21-2010, 03:40 PM
He was plenty fast enough to run all over the SEC, the fastest and most athletic conference in collegiate football.

He didn't run a good 40 because he's not a track guy, he's a football player. He played through injuries from day one last year, starting with an MCL that never really got 100% the rest of the season. If he can avoid injuries he'll tear it up in 2010 behind a line better suited to his and the offensive scheme's skills.

With the short life span that running backs have, needing to make excuses for one drafted #12 overall is not a good sign. Just saying. :flower:

Lomax
03-21-2010, 06:03 PM
Our problem running up the middle was not so much with the backs but was an issue with the line, our ZBS guys just could not power block. I think this was McD's biggest coaching mistake trying to make our Oline guys into something they were not suited for.

Again as many have said it is not a running back you would be drafting at 11 but a multi dimensional game breaking threat, something we have not had, well maybe ever.

I know it was the line, but that's not to say that a power runner won't help. The goal is to fix the short yardage situations. And to convert to a power blocking scheme. You don't do that by getting an outside runner who will struggle between the tackles.

I don't think the spread offense that McD is developing has a need for a big RB. Did the Pats use a big RB in their system? Corey Dillon was about the biggest RB I remember for the Pats the last 10 years. The one RB who has been in their system for a long time is Kevin Faulk and he's not really big, neither is the RB from Minnesota who Shanny coveted so much...If a 235 lb back doesn't fit McDaniels' system, why is he working out Gerhart? Seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through to check out a player who doesn't fit. That's obviously what he's looking for. Big, physical, tough, smart, etc. That's what he's after.

It's not about the system. It's about the quality and type of offensive player that fit the team. At some point we're going to have to accept that McDaniels is building his own team in Denver, and isn't simply cloning the Pats.

HAT
03-21-2010, 06:50 PM
If a 235 lb back doesn't fit McDaniels' system, why is he working out Gerhart?

In before someone else says........"Smokescreen"

baja
03-21-2010, 06:58 PM
Just watched the video clip on Spiller again all I can say is there are a lot of teams that are going to be sorry they passed on this kid.

Lomax
03-21-2010, 07:28 PM
In before someone else says........"Smokescreen"

How does that work exactly? We spend our allotted meeting hours on guys we won't draft so guys we didn't check out will fall to us?

Was Moreno a smokescreen too? Because the FO was really high on him pre-draft last year after meeting with him.

HAT
03-21-2010, 07:54 PM
How does that work exactly? We spend our allotted meeting hours on guys we won't draft so guys we didn't check out will fall to us?

Was Moreno a smokescreen too? Because the FO was really high on him pre-draft last year after meeting with him.

The "smokescreen" line is a long standing tradition on the 'Mane bro.....I'm a Pac-10 homer so Toby wouldn't bother me in the least.

baja
03-21-2010, 09:08 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxkNT9IxEu8

LOOK AT 2:56

Never mind here it is....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU_HjK0va1k&feature=related

We don't need any of this, do we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXWpSN06HAc&feature=related

Or this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IRWT_woUOQ&feature=fvw

chaz
03-21-2010, 10:40 PM
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baja posted this but everyone needs to look at 2:40...

ayjackson
03-21-2010, 11:46 PM
I think Jacoby Ford is the fastest football player I've ever seen.

DBroncos4life
03-22-2010, 12:20 AM
Funny how fast people forget how good this guy is....

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Lomax
03-22-2010, 12:35 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxkNT9IxEu8

LOOK AT 2:56

Never mind here it is....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU_HjK0va1k&feature=related

We don't need any of this, do we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXWpSN06HAc&feature=related

Or this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IRWT_woUOQ&feature=fvw

You're right, how could any team live without this...

http://www.nfl.com/players/reggiebush/profile?id=BUS294963

baja
03-22-2010, 12:55 AM
The real question is who would help the team the most at #11?

Doggcow
03-22-2010, 01:58 AM
You're right, how could any team live without this...

http://www.nfl.com/players/reggiebush/profile?id=BUS294963

I'll take a guy that was a key piece to a superbowl champion caliber team.

Lomax
03-22-2010, 02:37 AM
I'll take a guy that was a key piece to a superbowl champion caliber team.

Yep. Good thing they had Reggie. He made their team what it is.

long beach bronco
03-22-2010, 04:49 AM
Spiller reminds me of Marshall Faulk when he came out of San Diego State, simply a gamebreaker. He's that player where everyone on the defense is looking to see where he is lining up at. The defenses game plan for him alone. We noticed how MCD loves the bubble screens last season, can you imagine Spiller with 4 or 5 bubble screens a game? At least 2 are going to the house. We need a gamebreaker on this offense, and I think MCD knows that, and my guess is that if Spiller is there at 11, he will be a Bronco. Our Defense is set for the 2010 season, now we need to focus on our Offense with some gamebreakers and guards.

Broncoman13
03-22-2010, 05:42 AM
Yep. Good thing they had Reggie. He made their team what it is.

Reggie was a huge piece of that offense. More than anyone gives him credit for. People look for #s in the stat books but rarely think about the way teams design coverages and make sure he is accouted for first. He opens things up for everyone else on that offense just by being on the field. If you want to know what happens when you don't game plan for him, look no further than the Broncos 2008 matchup with the Saints.

Broncoman13
03-22-2010, 05:45 AM
Funny how fast people forget how good this guy is....

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I'd take CJ Spiller long before I took Best. Spiller looks like the much more explosive player and seems to have a lot better balance when getting hit. Spiller comes out of traffic, Best usually gets caught in traffic. Both are going to be good but Best is more JJ Arrington than he is anyone else. CJ Spiller reminds me of a faster Jamaal Charles (Even though Charles is a sub 4.4 guy himself).

chex
03-22-2010, 05:48 AM
Well, at his size, I doubt anyone is going to draft him with the idea of giving him the keys to the offense. He's not going to be someone's everydown back, so if his role is going to be the change-of-pace-gamebreaker, we might as well reap the rewards instead of someone else. I'm in the camp of getting Dan Williams, but I'm starting to warm up to the idea of Spiller. There are a few guys you can legitimately make a case for who would be great for us at 11, but obviously you can only take one guy.

Would it be too far out of the question of us trading Marshall for #14 and getting Iupati there to go along with Spiller? Would be a nice job of upgrading that side of the ball, along with the upgrades we made to the defense.

Broncoman13
03-22-2010, 05:59 AM
Well, at his size, I doubt anyone is going to draft him with the idea of giving him the keys to the offense. He's not going to be someone's everydown back, so if his role is going to be the change-of-pace-gamebreaker, we might as well reap the rewards instead of someone else. I'm in the camp of getting Dan Williams, but I'm starting to warm up to the idea of Spiller. There are a few guys you can legitimately make a case for who would be great for us at 11, but obviously you can only take one guy.

Would it be too far out of the question of us trading Marshall for #14 and getting Iupati there to go along with Spiller? Would be a nice job of upgrading that side of the ball, along with the upgrades we made to the defense.

I don't think Iupati is quite as strong as people think. I was huge on him until the Sr. Bowl and it became so apparent that he is a grabber. He'll struggle in Pass Pro for a while. If you want to go OL in the first then take a guy like Trent Williams at 11 and convert him to OG while also having someone that can play RT at a high level and LT in a pinch. I personally believe that Trent Williams would be the best possible draft pick at 11. I just don't think he'll last that long.

I wish we would have grabbed a few FA OLinemen, that way we could truly go BPA at 11.

oubronco
03-22-2010, 06:46 AM
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baja posted this but everyone needs to look at 2:40...

who's number 6 blocking for Spiller that dude can flatout fly

ELEVATION
03-22-2010, 06:46 AM
no thanks, i cant see 11 being good value....for a COP back....its almost like everyone just wants there to be another chris johnson so there annointing spiller that guy, but chris johnson is just rare they dont come around every draft, he was drafted where he was becasue peopel felt he could be a every down back..I dont here that with spiller..11 in my opinion is way to high...early 20's i wouldnt be to upset...but ryan matthews should be the first rb taken this draft anyways becasue he is a complete all round franchise back.......

i like spiller as a prospect and wouldnt even be to upset if we finally decided to go that route...but im doubtful 11 is good value for him....


As for dan williams i find it highly improbable he is there at 11 for us....I can see him going as high as 4 to washington who makes huge reaches all the time for DL players...KC could really use him, and pioli did take jackson at 3 becasue he loves positional value and 3-4 DE's and NT's are at a all time high right now....

if williams did make it past buffalo at 9 i find it also, highly improbable that miami wouldnt jump us to nab him.....

meangene
03-22-2010, 08:02 AM
Funny how fast people forget how good this guy is....

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I think they bring a similar dimension to an offense. The difference for me is the concussion issue with Best. Two concussions last year which caused him to miss most of the season. With the new rules on head injuries and the emphasis being placed on it, that really concerns me. Is he prone to these kinds of injuries? We won't know until he gets back out on the field and takes some hits. For a running back, this could be a significant problem.

That would definitely sway me towards Spiller over him.

DBroncos4life
03-22-2010, 11:06 AM
I'd take CJ Spiller long before I took Best. Spiller looks like the much more explosive player and seems to have a lot better balance when getting hit. Spiller comes out of traffic, Best usually gets caught in traffic. Both are going to be good but Best is more JJ Arrington than he is anyone else. CJ Spiller reminds me of a faster Jamaal Charles (Even though Charles is a sub 4.4 guy himself).

I think you are wrong. Both are a change of pace backs that are not great at protecting the QB's. I'm by far not the first person to think that Best and Spiller are pretty much the same type of back and I am not the first on this board that thinks Spiller is getting over hyped because of a weak top of this RB class. Spiller wasn't a top 10 pick and all of the sudden he is being talked about like he was always a lock for it. That is far from the case. I stand by what I said before had Best not taken that shot he did to force him to miss 4 games he would have been the best RB in the nation two years in a row.

It will be fun to revisit this thread later. I don't see near the drop off between the two players as you must.

s0phr0syne
03-22-2010, 11:10 AM
who's number 6 blocking for Spiller that dude can flatout fly


pretty sure it's jacoby ford, a WR in the draft this year.

Cito Pelon
03-22-2010, 01:30 PM
I don't think Iupati is quite as strong as people think. I was huge on him until the Sr. Bowl and it became so apparent that he is a grabber. He'll struggle in Pass Pro for a while. If you want to go OL in the first then take a guy like Trent Williams at 11 and convert him to OG while also having someone that can play RT at a high level and LT in a pinch. I personally believe that Trent Williams would be the best possible draft pick at 11. I just don't think he'll last that long.

I wish we would have grabbed a few FA OLinemen, that way we could truly go BPA at 11.

That's a good statement. I've been focused on D, but the OL needs to be addressed.

Spiller seems to be a luxury pick considering the other longterm needs along the LOS. I've been wanting D players, and OL also is a priority.

chaz
03-22-2010, 02:28 PM
Spiller reminds me of Marshall Faulk when he came out of San Diego State, simply a gamebreaker. He's that player where everyone on the defense is looking to see where he is lining up at. The defenses game plan for him alone. We noticed how MCD loves the bubble screens last season, can you imagine Spiller with 4 or 5 bubble screens a game? At least 2 are going to the house. We need a gamebreaker on this offense, and I think MCD knows that, and my guess is that if Spiller is there at 11, he will be a Bronco. Our Defense is set for the 2010 season, now we need to focus on our Offense with some gamebreakers and guards.

Exactly how I would envision his workload...all KR/PR, 6-8 carries, and 6-8 catches...he and Moreno could definitely coexist without limiting either's touches.

However I disagree he is the likely pick at 11. As much as I would love it, I don't see Josh agreeing with us.

chaz
03-22-2010, 02:32 PM
pretty sure it's jacoby ford, a WR in the draft this year.

i like his KR potential, but i'm always wary of track stars

Rabb
03-22-2010, 02:33 PM
If he is there, I would say we would regret not taking him

Spiller and Moreno would be a tremendously dangerous backfield

Dagmar
03-22-2010, 02:43 PM
If he is there, I would say we would regret not taking him

Spiller and Moreno would be a tremendously dangerous backfield

And the meltdowns here would be epic.

elsid13
03-22-2010, 02:48 PM
who's number 6 blocking for Spiller that dude can flatout fly

Ford - WR

Rabb
03-22-2010, 02:49 PM
And the meltdowns here would be epic.

oh no doubt

but it's the Mane, so I am expecting a meltdown in any case

Dagmar
03-22-2010, 02:55 PM
oh no doubt

but it's the Mane, so I am expecting a meltdown in any case

They will be immense. I cannot wait for draft day.

SouthStndJunkie
03-22-2010, 03:20 PM
My concern regarding Jahvid Best is his dented melon.

If he comes out and gets his melon dented right off the bat, he will be sitting a number of games, due to the issues he had with concussions last year.

The NFL is not screwing around with concussions anymore.

Cito Pelon
03-22-2010, 03:52 PM
If he is there, I would say we would regret not taking him

Spiller and Moreno would be a tremendously dangerous backfield

I love offense, (see my tag - attack at all times), but this draft might have to be on the lines and DB's. There's a lot of DL guys in the first three rounds, plus some CB's and LB's. Denver is short on OL also, and it looks to me like the good OL guys will be available late first thru early third, maybe that should be a focus.

chaz
03-24-2010, 12:25 PM
I love offense, (see my tag - attack at all times), but this draft might have to be on the lines and DB's. There's a lot of DL guys in the first three rounds, plus some CB's and LB's. Denver is short on OL also, and it looks to me like the good OL guys will be available late first thru early third, maybe that should be a focus.

I agree that the lines should be the focus, but I'm just not thrilled about the players available at 11...maybe someone will fall but it really seems to be an awkward spot for our needs.

Spiller is electric, and could still touch the ball 20 times a game in various ways to add a gamebreaker dimension to our offense that we very may well lose if Marshall is traded. Spiller becomes a much more realistic option if Brandon is traded IMO.

Rounds 2 and later (and perhaps a later first rounder) should all be dedicated to the lines as you say, especially with the level of talent available at those spots, but I don't like the idea of leaving a game changer on the board to reach for a need. It screams Jarvis Moss.

Play2win
03-24-2010, 02:36 PM
Trade Brandon for Tampa's 2 second rounders, Select Spiller in the first, and use the 3 second rounders to beef up the lines. Done deal.

tsiguy96
03-24-2010, 02:39 PM
I agree that the lines should be the focus, but I'm just not thrilled about the players available at 11...maybe someone will fall but it really seems to be an awkward spot for our needs.

Spiller is electric, and could still touch the ball 20 times a game in various ways to add a gamebreaker dimension to our offense that we very may well lose if Marshall is traded. Spiller becomes a much more realistic option if Brandon is traded IMO.

Rounds 2 and later (and perhaps a later first rounder) should all be dedicated to the lines as you say, especially with the level of talent available at those spots, but I don't like the idea of leaving a game changer on the board to reach for a need. It screams Jarvis Moss.

i thought we agreed to not talk about that anymore

BroncoMan4ever
03-24-2010, 02:44 PM
This would give us a young running back tandem for the next several seasons. We need playmakers on Offense to help our above average but still developing QBs. We can get the O line help in the later rounds

C.J. Spiller would give us a great returner as well, another area of need on this team.

Spiller would give us immediate help more so than any other player in the draft we could reasonably expect to draft.

i would rather eat a nice big bowl of dog **** than see us waste the number 11 pick on Reggie Bush lite.

BroncoMan4ever
03-24-2010, 02:46 PM
I agree that the lines should be the focus, but I'm just not thrilled about the players available at 11...maybe someone will fall but it really seems to be an awkward spot for our needs.

Spiller is electric, and could still touch the ball 20 times a game in various ways to add a gamebreaker dimension to our offense that we very may well lose if Marshall is traded. Spiller becomes a much more realistic option if Brandon is traded IMO.

Rounds 2 and later (and perhaps a later first rounder) should all be dedicated to the lines as you say, especially with the level of talent available at those spots, but I don't like the idea of leaving a game changer on the board to reach for a need. It screams Jarvis Moss.

since when is Spiller a borderline top 10 pick? he was always listed as a mid to late 1st pick.

also if we are going to pair a RB with Moreno for the next few years, i say bring in power and size in the form of either Dwyer or Gerhart in the middle rounds. i would like for us to trade back in the 1st to around 20 and get Iupati and build the OL and in the middle rounds get a complimentary back instead of taking 1 at 11.

baja
03-24-2010, 02:49 PM
i would rather eat a nice big bowl of dog **** than see us waste the number 11 pick on Reggie Bush lite.

Fine post a video of that, be sure to catch the steam part and I will let Josh know Spiller is off the table. ;D

watermock
03-24-2010, 09:42 PM
Two backs that were 11th and 12th picks might be a difficult investment to make...yes.

Denver can do whatever it wants in an uncapped year.

Spiller would be an instand MAJOR upgrade, especially is BM is gone. He has little wear, quit hoping Moreno is going to be a feature back.

watermock
03-24-2010, 09:56 PM
Seriously, RB is the least of our problems.

Wow.

Forget we lost our OC,RC coach, and Nolan, Whatever, we have an unusually easy schedule next year.

You think Buck is going to have another good year in power blocking?

meangene
03-25-2010, 03:31 AM
since when is Spiller a borderline top 10 pick? he was always listed as a mid to late 1st pick.

Mayock has him ranked #6 and Charles Davis has him gone at #9 to Buffalo.

Dagmar
03-25-2010, 05:36 AM
Wow.

Forget we lost our OC,RC coach, and Nolan, Whatever, we have an unusually easy schedule next year.

You think Buck is going to have another good year in power blocking?

I get it, you've started posting late so no one is around to call you on this bull****! Do you spend the rest of your day on a vikings board?