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Bronco Rob
03-11-2010, 03:59 AM
Woody's Mailbag: Elway away from sway with McD



Joe in Connecticut asks Woody what John Elway thinks about today's Broncos
By Woody Paige
The Denver Post
Posted: 03/11/2010 01:00:00 AM MST


Woody, I love the column. I was wondering if John Elway has made any comments about the Josh McDaniels/Kyle Orton situation that you can print? He seems far too loyal to say anything of substance, but I figured I'd take a shot anyway. -- Joe, Griswold, Conn.



Joe: You're right. John hasn't made any public comment in regard to the season Josh McDaniels and Kyle Orton had. I talk to Elway occasionally, and the subject, honestly, hasn't come up.

I imagine, based on our private discussions, that he wasn't any more thrilled than the rest of us. Elway never was a fan of Brian Griese's play, and Orton had a Griese kind of season.

I don't think McDaniels has ever met with Elway or invited him out to practice. So there's no close relationship between Elway and the coach or the player. But then, Elway and Mike Shanahan, who were the closest of friends while Elway was playing, didn't really have much of a relationship when the quarterback's career ended.

I will always believe it was because Bowlen wanted to give Elway a piece of the team and bring him into the front office, and Mike didn't want to work for him. Elway told me a year ago he was opposed to the Cutler trade.

I will ask him as soon as I talk to him again. But he isn't going to be critical, because he maintains a good relationship with Pat Bowlen. That's why I'm so surprised Bowlen and the Broncos, or even the city of Denver, has not erected a statue of John outside the stadium. He is the Broncos' all-time franchise player. It might require an outside group to get it done.


If you were the San Diego Chargers, wouldn't you sign Brandon Marshall to an offer sheet slightly higher than market value, forcing the Broncos to either: 1. Give a division rival one of the top receivers in the game for a very low first-round pick (No. 28); or 2. Over-pay for a receiver they don't even want? -- Sam, Golden




Sam: No. I think you'll find that very few teams want to take on Brandon at his price and with his luggage. If the Chargers did make an offer, the Broncos would accept the first-round draft choice and move on their way merrily.

The Chargers already have Northern Colorado's Vincent Jackson how did the Broncos miss out on him in their backyard? and aren't going to go after Marshall, and the Broncos wouldn't match the offer, anyway. So, end of that story.

I get your thinking, and I love solutions-oriented people except some of the yammerers who just want to hear themselves talk. But you better hope Cincinnati or Washington or Seattle does this deal.

By the way, I sat all day in the courtroom of the Darrent Williams murder trial, and the comments in the closing arguments by the defense attorney were certainly more brutal than anything sports writers ever said. And tape from the night of the murder, taken by a camera at the club, showed rather conclusively that Marshall didn't tell the truth about one important issue and try to make himself an innocent bystander when he was anything but.


Will there be more of a sense of urgency for players who can contribute with this upcoming NFL draft? It seems Josh McDaniels spent most of last year's draft picks on potential, rather than on guys who could come in right away and compete to start. Does he have the luxury of a draft-for-the-future approach? -- Matthew Hollis, Washington, D.C.


Matthew: Uh ... I don't think you can expect to get serious contributions from more than a couple of players in the draft, no matter which team you are. Last year the Broncos got a lot of production (you can debate how much) from Knowshon Moreno, and that was about it. Robert Ayers started most games and was on the field, but he only made two plays (running back a fumble for a touchdown) and had to have been a disappointment to the Broncos.

I got grief for comments in this mailbag about the lack of excellence revealed by Alphonso Smith, but his year was totally mediocre when you consider the Broncos gave up a No. 1 draft pick this year. I think we all, including the Broncos brass, would like to have that pick back.

The Broncos have already signed a free agent to use as the nickel back, so they're not counting on Smith to be much more than a dime package guy and a backup waiting for an injury in the next season. Tight end Richard Quinn was no contributor.

Both safeties they drafted were good additions, I think, but they didn't play much except on special teams. Seth Olsen, the offensive lineman, could start this year. Actually, all of their draft choices, except the last one, Blake Schlueter, made the team. But we still don't know about all of them.

Is Moreno a legitimate 1,300-yard runner? Is Ayers cut out to be an outside backer? Smith? Quinn? I'd say that in retrospect it was a pretty average draft for the Broncos. Based on conversations with McD, I think he expected all four of those picks to really help last year, but they didn't.

I believe he's drafting for now because his window is open for three years.


Hi Woody! I enjoyed your most recent column about the Broncos dipping their toes into the NFL free-agency period up until now. I don't always agree with your way of thinking, but I think Antonio Bryant and Jake Delhomme would be good additions to the team. You wrote that the Broncos "will never trust Chris Simms again." If that is the case, why hasn't he been released yet? What is his contract situation? -- Allan, Englewood


Allan: Chris Simms signed a two-year contract for $6 million. The Broncos owe him another $3 mil. As we discovered me, painfully last year, Simms doesn't have it anymore, and he didn't have a lot of it to begin with. The loss of his spleen ruined a promising career. He wasn't ready against the Redskins when he went in at Washington because of Orton's injury, and he was so terrible as a starter in the next game after a week of preparation that the Broncos inserted an injured Orton.

The coaches have no trust in Simms that he can win a game, and I don't think anybody in Denver would have any belief in Simms if he were to play. It's best for everybody to move on.

The Broncos probably will draft a QB, and either that player or Brandstater would be the backup, or the Broncos will go sign another veteran a Jeff Garcia or Jake Delhomme, on the cheap for a year. Shanahan used to bring in a new guy every year, at $1 million or so, and it worked out. Simms is never going to work out here. And I'm hoping the Broncos will draft Dan LeFevour in the second round and train him to take over in 2011 for Orton.

Quarterbacks no longer have to sit and watch for several years. Look at Sanchez, Ryan, Flacco. They all stepped in immediately. I'm certain McDaniels will want to ride with Orton one more time. Orton is tough, but he's had injuries and likely won't play every game next year. You'd better have someone else who can play.

Simms hasn't been released because the Broncos are waiting to see how the draft goes.






http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_14650469?source=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-sports-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%29

Paladin
03-11-2010, 04:29 AM
The remarks on Marshall are telling. He is a punk who instigated events that killed a friend. I just don't see how he would get an offer from some where else, but I could be wrong on that. I have advocated his trade for some time, but we will have to see if the reality checks on him help him to mature. Peronally, I am not hopeful......

ColoradoDarin
03-11-2010, 07:18 AM
John hasn't made any public comment in regard to the season Josh McDaniels and Kyle Orton had.

Oh okay, maybe I imagined Elway's interview that I transcribed (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2703065#post2703065)....

I'm always dumber after I read Woody.

gunns
03-11-2010, 07:43 AM
I will ask him as soon as I talk to him again. But he isn't going to be critical, because he maintains a good relationship with Pat Bowlen. That's why I'm so surprised Bowlen and the Broncos, or even the city of Denver, has not erected a statue of John outside the stadium. He is the Broncos' all-time franchise player. It might require an outside group to get it done.


I've often wondered about that. Get it done!

The coaches have no trust in Simms that he can win a game, and I don't think anybody in Denver would have any belief in Simms if he were to play. It's best for everybody to move on.


Thank the Lord!

bfoflcommish
03-11-2010, 08:02 AM
By the way, I sat all day in the courtroom of the Darrent Williams murder trial, and the comments in the closing arguments by the defense attorney were certainly more brutal than anything sports writers ever said. And tape from the night of the murder, taken by a camera at the club, showed rather conclusively that Marshall didn't tell the truth about one important issue and try to make himself an innocent bystander when he was anything but.




wow thats what I took most from that article

Dr. Broncenstein
03-11-2010, 08:09 AM
By the way, I sat all day in the courtroom of the Darrent Williams murder trial, and the comments in the closing arguments by the defense attorney were certainly more brutal than anything sports writers ever said. And tape from the night of the murder, taken by a camera at the club, showed rather conclusively that Marshall didn't tell the truth about one important issue and try to make himself an innocent bystander when he was anything but.

Honestly, was there ever a doubt in anyone's mind?

strafen
03-11-2010, 08:13 AM
I'm surprised nobody has called Elway a moron yet... ROFL!

titan
03-11-2010, 08:14 AM
Oh okay, maybe I imagined Elway's interview that I transcribed (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2703065#post2703065)....

I'm always dumber after I read Woody.

Yes Elway was on Vic and Gary's radio show all football season (every Monday) and made lots of comments about Orton and the Broncos. I don't remember anything too negative John said. After the KC loss I remember John said "I've made throws like that - Kyle just didn't see him" regarding the last interception for a touchdown.

TotallyScrewed
03-11-2010, 08:19 AM
Of course the Brandon haters are going to read a ton more into Woody's comments than are actually printed and I don't give a crap if somebody talks crap about you and your entire family and everyone you've ever known, that doesn't give you the right to go violent and I won't put blame on the talkers because I'm certain that it wasn't one sided.

I've actually been surprised by Elways' comments all year. He seems to be riding the "party" line as if he were management. Disappointing really.

Hopefully, McD and the scouts will do better this go round in the draft. I can't complain about their FA's but I'm not overwhelmed either. I'm taking the we'll see attitude. Quite frankly, I'm hoping for a QB upgrade.

Meck77
03-11-2010, 09:50 AM
Of course the Brandon haters are going to read a ton more into Woody's comments than are actually printed and I don't give a crap if somebody talks crap about you and your entire family and everyone you've ever known, that doesn't give you the right to go violent and I won't put blame on the talkers because I'm certain that it wasn't one sided.
.

Nevermind the fact that brandon down played his role in all of it and lied about it.

If we took our orange colored glasses off we'd realize the guy has been more trouble in just a few years than TO has been in his ENTIRE career. Even TO hasn't been involved with the law as much. Think about it.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-11-2010, 10:04 AM
Hey, Brandon didn't pull the trigger. Regardless of what he may have done in the club, to suggest he's even remotely responsible for Darrent Williams's murder is absurd.

bronco militia
03-11-2010, 10:04 AM
Nevermind the fact that brandon down played his role in all of it and lied about it.

If we took our orange colored glasses off we'd realize the guy has been more trouble in just a few years than TO has been in his ENTIRE career. Even TO hasn't been involved with the law as much. Think about it.

TO's is 10 times the bigger headache on the field and in the locker room..

BM>TO

SonOfLe-loLang
03-11-2010, 10:05 AM
oh yeah, and Brian Greise wishes he had a year like Orton's last season.

bronco militia
03-11-2010, 10:09 AM
oh yeah, and Brian Greise wishes he had a year like Orton's last season.

he had a couple that were better than Orton's 2009

the G-Boy

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=1493

Orton



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=8520

SonOfLe-loLang
03-11-2010, 10:19 AM
he had a couple that were better than Orton's 2009

the G-Boy

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=1493

Orton



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=8520

Uhhh and which seasons would this be (aside from his PROBOWL one in which he missed a bunch of games?)

Beantown Bronco
03-11-2010, 10:39 AM
Uhhh and which seasons would this be (aside from his PROBOWL one in which he missed a bunch of games?)

Seriously. A couple? At best, one could make an argument for the 2000 season in which he only played 10 games. Other than that, you can't even pretend to make an argument for any of those seasons.

bronco militia
03-11-2010, 10:43 AM
Uhhh and which seasons would this be (aside from his PROBOWL one in which he missed a bunch of games?)

just pointing out the exaggeration of your claim. These guys are essentially the same player except you'd probably have a better time hanging out with Kyle Orton

Dr. Broncenstein
03-11-2010, 10:47 AM
just pointing out the exaggeration of your claim. These guys are essentially the same player except you'd probably have a better time hanging out with Kyle Orton

I think watching Griese getting his ass kicked by his own football team would be a biatchin time. Sign me up.

RaiderH8r
03-11-2010, 11:00 AM
Hey, Brandon didn't pull the trigger. Regardless of what he may have done in the club, to suggest he's even remotely responsible for Darrent Williams's murder is absurd.

Agreed.:thumbs:

SonOfLe-loLang
03-11-2010, 11:03 AM
just pointing out the exaggeration of your claim. These guys are essentially the same player except you'd probably have a better time hanging out with Kyle Orton

I wasnt exaggerating. Not to mention, Kyle's best years are probably ahead of him if he were to stay in this offense. And if he plays like Griese did during that pro bowl campaign (19 td/4ints) we should be so lucky.

Dedhed
03-11-2010, 12:40 PM
I'm surprised nobody has called Elway a moron yet... ROFL!

For what exactly?

Taco John
03-11-2010, 01:02 PM
Call me when Kyle manages to throw 100 receptions to two receivers in the same season.

bronco militia
03-11-2010, 01:11 PM
I wasnt exaggerating. .

you said Brian Griese wishes he had a season like Orton's 2009.


I don't expect orton to improve upon 2009...what you see is what you get

montrose
03-11-2010, 01:22 PM
Call me when Kyle manages to throw 100 receptions to two receivers in the same season.

In all fairness, a good number of those catches came from Gus who started 6 games.

Beantown Bronco
03-11-2010, 01:23 PM
you said Brian Griese wishes he had a season like Orton's 2009.


Technically, Griese didn't have any season like Orton's 2009 season.

I don't expect orton to improve upon 2009...what you see is what you get

The guy played half the season with a dislocated finger on his throwing hand and missed time with a busted leg when he was arguably playing some of his best ball. Even if he actually made zero improvement in his game, by simply staying healthy in 2010, he'd easily have top 10 QB numbers playing the same type of ball he did last year.

bronco militia
03-11-2010, 01:27 PM
Technically, Griese didn't have any season like Orton's 2009 season.



The guy played half the season with a dislocated finger on his throwing hand and missed time with a busted leg when he was arguably playing some of his best ball. Even if he actually made zero improvement in his game, by simply staying healthy in 2010, he'd easily have top 10 QB numbers playing the same type of ball he did last year.

he got worse as the season played out and was better with the glove on...


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/gamelog?playerId=8520

kappys
03-11-2010, 01:28 PM
Call me when Kyle manages to throw 100 receptions to two receivers in the same season.

That'll never happen.

His upside is Rich Gannon - mediocre QB with good smarts decent arm. If he can develop some deep ball accuracy and has a good line could pick teams apart and distribute the ball well.

bronco militia
03-11-2010, 01:30 PM
anyway looking at those number again, it's weird how his passer rating fell to the 80's....IMO, he was mostly in the 90's ....


never mind, carry on.

I can't beleive he had those numbers. I though he was doing his best impression of Brian Griese all year.

Beantown Bronco
03-11-2010, 02:02 PM
he got worse as the season played out and was better with the glove on...


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/gamelog?playerId=8520

Better with the glove on? The numbers do not at all back that up, certainly not initially when he was getting used to it for the first time. Weeks one through three, with the glove on, he was not at all even close to 100% and wasn't doing much of anything as your link proves. If I remember right, he was healed up by the Cowboys or Pats game more or less, but kept wearing the glove for another week or two for precautionary reasons.

And he wasn't any worse as the season went along. In fact, looking at your own link, his 2nd half numbers were better than his 1st half numbers (his yds and TDs over the last 8 games were way up over his first 8 games), so I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove by putting it here. You're just showing that you're wrong.

bronco militia
03-11-2010, 02:43 PM
see above post

Atwater His Ass
03-11-2010, 03:18 PM
im confused. some people around here say you can't use stats to backup a "football" argument because it means you don't watch the games or something.

then they come back and start posting about stats in another thread to backup their football "analysis". awesome.

bronco militia
03-11-2010, 03:20 PM
im confused. some people around here say you can't use stats to backup a "football" argument because it means you don't watch the games or something.

then they come back and start posting about stats in another thread to backup their football "analysis". awesome.

sometimes I watch 16 games and think "damn these guy's suck" only to look back at their stats 3 months later and say "they weren't that bad".

anyway, heres' to the broncos besting their 8-8 standard of the last 11 years