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RonDaChamp24
03-08-2010, 07:17 AM
According to Adam Schefter and Mike Tirico Marshall has said he's open to staying in Denver but his trip to Seattle went great. This could be bs, but I really hope it's true.


@Adam_Schefter:1/2 Colleague Mike Tirico bumped into Brandon Marshall after the wide receiver returned to Denver. Marshall said the visit was great...

@Adam_Schefter: Marshall also said he sitll very open to staying in Denver and would not be surprised if this process lasts until the NFL draft.

i4jelway7
03-08-2010, 07:19 AM
already posted

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=89830&page=3

Garcia Bronco
03-08-2010, 07:22 AM
I bet so since no team is actually interested in him at the price the Broncos are asking.

RMT
03-08-2010, 07:47 AM
I bet so since no team is actually interested in him at the price the Broncos are asking.

or interested in BM at the price HE is asking.

TailgateNut
03-08-2010, 07:50 AM
No matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd.

TheDave
03-08-2010, 07:54 AM
This is the toughest situation to figure out...

Brandon is one of, if not the most gifted recievers I've seen in a VERY long time. We are absolutely a better team with him on the field.

On the other hand, he is one of the biggest head cases I've ever seen.

I don't blame the FO for shopping him, I'm just afraid if he is traded they have no idea how to replace him.

In the end, staying here on a one year deal is the best for us... assuming he doesn't lose his mind playing for $2.5mil again.

TailgateNut
03-08-2010, 07:57 AM
This is the toughest situation to figure out...

Brandon is one of, if not the most gifted recievers I've seen in a VERY long time. We are absolutely a better team with him on the field.

On the other hand, he is one of the biggest head cases I've ever seen.

I don't blame the FO for shopping him, I'm just afraid if he is traded they have no idea how to replace him.

In the end, staying here on a one year deal is the best for us... assuming he doesn't lose his mind playing for $2.5mil again.

Regardless of the amount of the contract given to BM, it MUST have clauses which protect the team which signs him from his next on/off field episode.

UberBroncoMan
03-08-2010, 07:57 AM
This is the toughest situation to figure out...

Brandon is one of, if not the most gifted recievers I've seen in a VERY long time. We are absolutely a better team with him on the field.

On the other hand, he is one of the biggest head cases I've ever seen.

I don't blame the FO for shopping him, I'm just afraid if he is traded they have no idea how to replace him.

In the end, staying here on a one year deal is the best for us... assuming he doesn't lose his mind playing for $2.5mil again.

Yeah... that's not happening... nor should it. He deserves more than that per-year now that his rookie contract is up.

TailgateNut
03-08-2010, 07:59 AM
Yeah... that's not happening... nor should it. He deserves more than that per-year now that his rookie contract is up.

He desrves more based on talent and performance but his attitude and off field activities and screw ups are one GIANT RISK.

Tombstone RJ
03-08-2010, 08:02 AM
Broncos have been more than fair to Bmarsh, esp. if they offered him a new contract last year and he refused it. Now they are putting him out on the market for all the world to see and all it takes is a first to get him... if Bmarsh can't make it work with another team, it's his fault (and his agent's fault) and his fault alone.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the only thing holding Bmarsh back is Bmarsh.

eddie mac
03-08-2010, 08:03 AM
Yeah... that's not happening... nor should it. He deserves more than that per-year now that his rookie contract is up.

Like dozens of other pros around the league. We'll see if they play for that amount as well.

Garcia Bronco
03-08-2010, 08:07 AM
Yeah... that's not happening... nor should it. He deserves more than that per-year now that his rookie contract is up.

"Deserve" has nothing to do with it. He deserves exactly what he gets because remember this...if it weren't for football he'd be in jail where he belongs.

TheDave
03-08-2010, 08:07 AM
The problem here is everyone is right...

Brandon is not only incredibly talented he is also historically productive. 3 straight 100 catch season out of 4 total is a HOF level of productivity. On top of that he has done it with 2 different QB's 3 Different OC's, 2 Different HC's, and 2 totally different schemes. The guy is a ****ing stud and deserves to be paid as such.

Unfortunately, he is also a woman beater, has been arrested countless times, almost managed to cut his own arm off a couple of seasons ago, lost his mind on film at practice, and frankly could be viewed as a menace to society. Hell if you just look at the off field stuff he deserves to be cut... yesterday.

Point is... everyone is right.

**** I just don't know how to handle this one.

Killericon
03-08-2010, 08:14 AM
I've come down against him in this one. **** him. On the field he's an amazing athlete who can make amazing plays. It's not worth it, though.

TailgateNut
03-08-2010, 08:18 AM
He has way to many "aw****s" on his record to counteract his "attaboys".

TheDave
03-08-2010, 08:20 AM
He has way to many "aw****s" on his record to counteract his "attaboys".

If we do trade him... I think some of you are going to be absolutely shocked at how anemic our offense becomes without him.

Br0nc0Buster
03-08-2010, 08:25 AM
well thats good because I bet he stays

bowtown
03-08-2010, 08:25 AM
Point is... everyone is right.


Noooooooooooo... now we will never know who is better at teh internetz!

chex
03-08-2010, 08:29 AM
If we do trade him... I think some of you are going to be absolutely shocked at how anemic our offense becomes without him.

Any offense would take a hit if they lost a productive guy like Marshall. Itís not exclusive to this team or this offense.

However, at least if he moves on, we can plan around it, which is much better than if we keep him long term for mega bucks, and heís not playing here anyway because of league suspension. Iím sorry, but we stand to lose more than we gain. Any team does, which is why he has generated little interest thus far. Itís not just the Broncos that recognize the potential disaster. He has yet to demonstrate he can stay out of trouble. That will not change with the wave of a magic wand in the form of a big contract.

DenverBrit
03-08-2010, 08:30 AM
The problem here is everyone is right...

Brandon is not only incredibly talented he is also historically productive. 3 straight 100 catch season out of 4 total is a HOF level of productivity. On top of that he has done it with 2 different QB's 3 Different OC's, 2 Different HC's, and 2 totally different schemes. The guy is a ****ing stud and deserves to be paid as such.

Unfortunately, he is also a woman beater, has been arrested countless times, almost managed to cut his own arm off a couple of seasons ago, lost his mind on film at practice, and frankly could be viewed as a menace to society. Hell if you just look at the off field stuff he deserves to be cut... yesterday.

Point is... everyone is right.

**** I just don't know how to handle this one.

I agree, no one does.

We all like his on field production and most want, or do, like him.

But his incredible number of incidents make him a liability which could be triggered again as soon as he gets a big payday.

There's a reason why teams....Denver included....aren't beating the doors down to tie themselves to his ability to suddenly change.

BM needs to understand that being paid 10 million a year, guaranteed only by his good behavior, is a great deal.

Maybe in a couple of years that will change, but for now, he's his own worst enemy.

Tombstone RJ
03-08-2010, 08:34 AM
If we do trade him... I think some of you are going to be absolutely shocked at how anemic our offense becomes without him.

This is why the Broncos have to be firm on any trade. They have to get compensation that can make an immediate impact. If Orton's bff on the field is going bye-bye the Broncos have to adjust.

Traveler
03-08-2010, 08:36 AM
Regardless of the amount of the contract given to BM, it MUST have clauses which protect the team which signs him from his next on/off field episode.

This is exactly where I am on the BM situation. While he is a top ten WR, the kid is just one misstep away from another suspension. You just don't commit guaranteed money to anyone in this position.

Why would you pay a player like this millions in guaranteed money when he can't behave himself making much less?

Brandon is a good player, and good players get replaced all the time. He is not the next Jerry Rice or someone that can take over a game and elevate the play of his team.

Truth be told, my guess is that he'll be playing for us this season and we'll get nothing for him when he leaves in 2011 unless we franchise him. The only benefit is that we may not be saddled with his contract guarantees if we were to sign him long term and he screws up again.

bowtown
03-08-2010, 08:38 AM
This is exactly where I am on the BM situation. While he is a top ten WR, the kid is just one misstep away from another suspension. You just don't commit guaranteed money to anyone in this position.

Why would you pay a player like this millions in guaranteed money when he can't behave himself making much less?

Brandon is a good player, and good players get replaced all the time. He is not the next Jerry Rice or someone that can take over a game and elevate the play of his team.
Truth be told, my guess is that he'll be playing for us this season and we'll get nothing for him when he leaves in 2011 unless we franchise him. The only benefit is that we may not be saddled with his contract guarantees if we were to sign him long term and he screws up again.

I'm not so sure I agree with the second half of that sentence.

TheDave
03-08-2010, 08:38 AM
Any offense would take a hit if they lost a productive guy like Marshall. Itís not exclusive to this team or this offense.

Obviously, did you really believe I thought we were the only team in the NFL that would take a step back if we lost a highly productive player?

However, at least if he moves on, we can plan around it, which is much better than if we keep him long term for mega bucks, and heís not playing here anyway because of league suspension. Iím sorry, but we stand to lose more than we gain. Any team does, which is why he has generated little interest thus far. Itís not just the Broncos that recognize the potential disaster. He has yet to demonstrate he can stay out of trouble. That will not change with the wave of a magic wand in the form of a big contract.

Every team can "plan around" losing a player. That doesn't mean we can replace his production. None of these guys are angles... at some point you have to pay for their production.

As for the rest of the post I've already acknolodged he is a problem off the field. Hell, everyone has. But saying that is the reason why he has generated little interest so far is simply untrue. At this point, not one sigle RFA has signed an offer. This isn't just a Brandon Marshall phenomenon, this is league wide right now.

Look I get he is a major problem, I just wish the "Get rid of him' types would admit this is going to really hurt our team on the field.

Traveler
03-08-2010, 08:48 AM
I'm not so sure I agree with the second half of that sentence.

I've yet to see him do so. He's made some great catches, scored some touchdowns, but he has yet to win a single ball game for us by elevating his play. He's not a long-ball, downfield threat.

Brandon's greatest talent is making yards after the catch. Just doesn't do that consistently enough and sometimes gets alligator arms going across the middle.

Hell, even his 20+ catch game wasn't enough to help us win. Brandon is not a game changer.

While he is a top ten WR, he has enough baggage that will make it difficult for him to get the type of money his talent suggest he should be making.

gyldenlove
03-08-2010, 08:52 AM
I've yet to see him do so. He's made some great catches, scored some touchdowns, but he has yet to win a single ball game for us by elevating his play. He's not a long-ball, downfield threat.

Brandon's greatest talent is making yards after the catch. Just doesn't do that consistently enough and sometimes gets alligator arms going across the middle.

Hell, even his 20+ catch game wasn't enough to help us win. Brandon is not a game changer.
While he is a top ten WR, he has enough baggage that will make it difficult for him to get the type of money his talent suggest he should be making.

I bet the Cowboys might disagree with you on that one.

Traveler
03-08-2010, 08:53 AM
Look I get he is a major problem, I just wish the "Get rid of him' types would admit this is going to really hurt our team on the field.

I agree with you in this sense. It will be hard to replace his production on the field. Hard, but not impossible. It will hurt our team short term, but like anything else, we'll get past this too.

If we can lose Cutler without too much ill effect, losing will not hurt us too badly IMO.

Traveler
03-08-2010, 08:59 AM
I bet the Cowboys might disagree with you on that one.

Hence my point. You can only recall one game in which Brandon contributed greatly and helped determine the outcome.

He just doesn't do it consistently enough in my book. This offense will be setback a little by him possibly not being here. Having said that, we are rebuilding and if his loss helps the team get better over the long haul, I can live with that.

chex
03-08-2010, 09:04 AM
Obviously, did you really believe I thought we were the only team in the NFL that would take a step back if we lost a highly productive player?



Every team can "plan around" losing a player. That doesn't mean we can replace his production. None of these guys are angles... at some point you have to pay for their production.

As for the rest of the post I've already acknolodged he is a problem off the field. Hell, everyone has. But saying that is the reason why he has generated little interest so far is simply untrue. At this point, not one sigle RFA has signed an offer. This isn't just a Brandon Marshall phenomenon, this is league wide right now.

Look I get he is a major problem, I just wish the "Get rid of him' types would admit this is going to really hurt our team on the field.

Personally speaking, I think Iíve made myself very clear. Iím looking at both sides of the coin. I am of the belief, if we can get good compensation for him, we should do it. Not because I donít think heís a highly talented, highly productive WR, but because we stand to lose more if we sign him to a big contract and he gets suspended, as opposed to living life without him. A year or two from now, do you really want to be discussing cap hits when talking about Marshall? Itís really not that complicated to figure out.

Never mind asking if anyone here realizes what weíre losing if he leaves, ask why other teams arenít willing to go near him despite what they would be gaining. I am scared to death of getting burned, and so is the rest of the league. I would be very surprised if Marshall stays out of trouble the life of his next contract, so ask yourself, would you be as well? Unless anyone here confidently feels he would, why would you want to take on such risk?

BlaK-Argentina
03-08-2010, 09:05 AM
I agree with you in this sense. It will be hard to replace his production on the field. Hard, but not impossible. It will hurt our team short term, but like anything else, we'll get past this too.

If we can lose Cutler without too much ill effect, losing will not hurt us too badly IMO.

But Cutler sucks. Marshall doesn't.

It will be a lot harder to replace him but I think we'll be ok.

rmsanger
03-08-2010, 09:05 AM
The problem here is everyone is right...

Brandon is not only incredibly talented he is also historically productive. 3 straight 100 catch season out of 4 total is a HOF level of productivity. On top of that he has done it with 2 different QB's 3 Different OC's, 2 Different HC's, and 2 totally different schemes. The guy is a ****ing stud and deserves to be paid as such.

Unfortunately, he is also a woman beater, has been arrested countless times, almost managed to cut his own arm off a couple of seasons ago, lost his mind on film at practice, and frankly could be viewed as a menace to society. Hell if you just look at the off field stuff he deserves to be cut... yesterday.

Point is... everyone is right.

**** I just don't know how to handle this one.
X2

Great post, sums up all of my feelings on the subject!

TheDave
03-08-2010, 09:05 AM
I agree with you in this sense. It will be hard to replace his production on the field. Hard, but not impossible. It will hurt our team short term, but like anything else, we'll get past this too.

If we can lose Cutler without too much ill effect, losing will not hurt us too badly IMO.

But that's just it... there was a negative in losing cutler. Yes we got rid of a lot of boneheaded plays. We also lost almost all of our playmaking ability at the QB position. There is a reason opposing defense were so comfortable lining up 8 in the box and just pounding on us.

That will be the same thing with Marshall. We will lose his ability to make the big play. IMO, we lose both the Dallas and NE games without him.

The fact is talent wins in the NFL. Now I'll never defend him because of his off field BS, but I'm not about to pretend that this isn't going to be a MAJOR loss to our offense.

Traveler
03-08-2010, 09:12 AM
But that's just it... there was a negative in losing cutler. Yes we got rid of a lot of boneheaded plays. We also lost almost all of our playmaking ability at the QB position. There is a reason opposing defense were so comfortable lining up 8 in the box and just pounding on us.

That will be the same thing with Marshall. We will lose his ability to make the big play. IMO, we lose both the Dallas and NE games without him.

The fact is talent wins in the NFL. Now I'll never defend him because of his off field BS, but I'm not about to pretend that this isn't going to be a MAJOR loss to our offense.

Me either.

I just happen to think the effect of losing him won't be as magnified as you might think.

Talent does win football games. On this we agree. Brandon possibly not being here just isn't the doom and gloom for this offense IMO.

Again, it'll hurt us short term, but I think we'll deal with it and move on.

TheDave
03-08-2010, 09:13 AM
Never mind asking if anyone here realizes what weíre losing if he leaves, ask why other teams arenít willing to go near him despite what they would be gaining. I am scared to death of getting burned, and so is the rest of the league. I would be very surprised if Marshall stays out of trouble the life of his next contract, so ask yourself, would you be as well? Unless anyone here confidently feels he would, why would you want to take on such risk?

You keep saying that... But not one RFA has been singed this offseason.

Again I know he is a turd, but you need to quit lying to yourself. The NFL signs turds all the time.

Ray Lewis murdered someone... didn't stop baltimore from signing him a couple of times.

Leonard little... Killed someone. Still got signed.

Michael Vick... currently playing in the NFL.

Jamal Lewis... drug dealer, managed a couple of contracts after doing jail time.


You need to quit pretending Brandon is the only turd in this bowl.

Paladin
03-08-2010, 09:15 AM
I think the Broncso would survive. NY survived teh Buress fiasaco, Atlanta survived the Vick instance. I am sure there have been many players over the years thought to be "irreplaceable" that teams have survived their leaving the team, one way or another. It would not be necessary to play the Funeral Dirge if Marshal left. In fact, that event could herald the dawning of a new era in Bronco football, provided the League survives after next year. I would hesitate to predict the total demise of the Broncos if Marshall left..............

And you need to stop pretending that your tfavorite turd is better than all the other turds......

Cito Pelon
03-08-2010, 09:19 AM
Regardless of the amount of the contract given to BM, it MUST have clauses which protect the team which signs him from his next on/off field episode.

That just doesn't fly in contracts, though. Hence the Broncos offered him a good contract, but not much guaranteed. That is the only way a team can protect themselves.

We'll see if there is any team that wants to make an offer to BM as an RFA or even trade for him after FA expires. The holdback will be how much a team will offer guaranteed. Even after FA expires a team won't trade for him unless they have a contract agreed to in advance, and again, the upfront money will be the tough point.

Denver is apparently willing to give BM a good contract, but not much upfront and I'm thinking BM is gonna run into the same thing with every team.

Whatever happens, Denver will do ok. If they keep him, hopefully he's smarter and calmer. If they trade him, they'll get decent compensation.

TheDave
03-08-2010, 09:21 AM
And you need to stop pretending that your tfavorite turd is better than all the other turds......

Who's doing that?

chex
03-08-2010, 09:23 AM
You keep saying that... But not one RFA has been singed this offseason.

Again I know he is a turd, but you need to quit lying to yourself. The NFL signs turds all the time.

Ray Lewis murdered someone... didn't stop baltimore from signing him a couple of times.

Leonard little... Killed someone. Still got signed.

Michael Vick... currently playing in the NFL.

Jamal Lewis... drug dealer.


You need to quit pretending Brandon is the only turd in this bowl.

Who is pretending? Really, Iíve laid my cards out on the table, yet you keep insisting Iím trying to convince people otherwise. Not sure why youíre getting pissed.

Out of the other RFAís how many come with as cheap a price tag compared to production? On the one hand youíre telling me his production will leave a vast void in the offense, yet you compare his not getting signed to an offer sheet to other, lesser players. A guy with his production hits the market with a 1st round tag, and youíre telling me itís normal he hasnít garnered more interest?

Once again, I will say it as clearly as possible Ė we are worse off if we are stuck with a big contract and suspension, than if he is not here at all. I never said his production would be easily replaced, so stop insinuating that Iím saying we could. If you or anyone could 100% guarantee he would stay out of trouble from here on in, I would say give the guy whatever he wants.

And by the way, I wouldn't sign any of the other guys you listed either.

gyldenlove
03-08-2010, 09:26 AM
Hence my point. You can only recall one game in which Brandon contributed greatly and helped determine the outcome.

He just doesn't do it consistently enough in my book. This offense will be setback a little by him possibly not being here. Having said that, we are rebuilding and if his loss helps the team get better over the long haul, I can live with that.

You can only recall one game in which his had the opportunity and didn't win the game.

Marshall won the Dallas and New England games for us, he took over the Indy game and was the only player on that offense who did anything, and you can hardly blame him for the defense just standing by as Dallas Clark gave the Colts a 14 point lead - or is this another one of those players who is responsible for how the entire team performs when they are bad but not when they are good? He all but won the Redskins game right up until Priefer despite a time out couldn't work out how to react to a fake field goal and Simms somehow managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but maybe that was Marshalls faul as well?

No other player on this team gave us as good a chance to win so many games last season as Marshall did, that is a fact.

Requiem
03-08-2010, 09:27 AM
My stance on the situation is this.

If we cannot get top value for Marshall, which I would state would be Seattle's #6 or something comparable, do what you can to keep him here. Pay him money. His production is off the charts.

I'd prefer it if he stayed, but if he doesn't, just get value.

TheDave
03-08-2010, 09:29 AM
Who is pretending? Really, Iíve laid my cards out on the table, yet you keep insisting Iím trying to convince people otherwise. Not sure why youíre getting pissed.

Out of the other RFAís how many come with as cheap a price tag compared to production? On the one hand youíre telling me his production will leave a vast void in the offense, yet you compare his not getting signed to an offer sheet to other, lesser players. A guy with his production hits the market with a 1st round tag, and youíre telling me itís normal he hasnít garnered more interest?


Not real sure why you think I'm pissed...

Here is the deal RFA rarely ever get traded. Especially early on. Take a moment and look back through the history of RFA. It rarely happens no matter how talented the player is. Especially early in the process.

Think about it this way... If a team needs a WR they would be foolish to sign a RFA to an offer sheet. Wait 7 days while all the other teams lap up the UFA WR's on the market only to have their tender matched. Point is RFA's don't recieve any action this early one. Be patient.

He will get offers... I'm just afraid the offers will not match his talent or production.

Cito Pelon
03-08-2010, 09:29 AM
If we do trade him... I think some of you are going to be absolutely shocked at how anemic our offense becomes without him.

Oh, c'mon. Please. Jebus, enough of the drama. ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED!!!! ANEMIC!!!!! 3-13!!!!! OMG!!!!!! JUST WAIT AND SEE!!!!

Heard it all before. Good lord, get a grip on reality, EEyore.

2KBack
03-08-2010, 09:30 AM
I'm kinda with the Dave on this whole thing. When watching him play I love the guy, I want him here forever, then within a couple weeks I hear about some other stupid thing he did, or is doing. It's not hard to NOT get arrested, I've done it my whole life, without even trying. One day a week I am the biggest Marshall fan, then by Wed I'm usually thinking "**** that guy."

This is a very odd and frustrating scenario

TheDave
03-08-2010, 09:31 AM
Oh, c'mon. Please. Jebus, enough of the drama. ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED!!!! ANEMIC!!!!! 3-13!!!!! OMG!!!!!! JUST WAIT AND SEE!!!!

Heard it all before. Good lord, get a grip on reality, EEyore.

Just put me on ignore already... No one is b****ing and whining about my takes but you.

Please stop following me around and crying about everything I say...

Cito Pelon
03-08-2010, 09:35 AM
I agree, no one does.

We all like his on field production and most want, or do, like him.

But his incredible number of incidents make him a liability which could be triggered again as soon as he gets a big payday.

There's a reason why teams....Denver included....aren't beating the doors down to tie themselves to his ability to suddenly change.

BM needs to understand that being paid 10 million a year, guaranteed only by his good behavior, is a great deal.

Maybe in a couple of years that will change, but for now, he's his own worst enemy.

Yup.

gyldenlove
03-08-2010, 09:39 AM
Personally speaking, I think Iíve made myself very clear. Iím looking at both sides of the coin. I am of the belief, if we can get good compensation for him, we should do it. Not because I donít think heís a highly talented, highly productive WR, but because we stand to lose more if we sign him to a big contract and he gets suspended, as opposed to living life without him. A year or two from now, do you really want to be discussing cap hits when talking about Marshall? Itís really not that complicated to figure out.

Never mind asking if anyone here realizes what weíre losing if he leaves, ask why other teams arenít willing to go near him despite what they would be gaining. I am scared to death of getting burned, and so is the rest of the league. I would be very surprised if Marshall stays out of trouble the life of his next contract, so ask yourself, would you be as well? Unless anyone here confidently feels he would, why would you want to take on such risk?

There are 4 possibilities:

1. We sign Marshall long term to a big contract and he performs like he has over the last 3 years and doesn't get suspended indefinitely. (There is no indication that his performance would go down significantly so it really hinges on the suspension., lets call this one somewhat probable).

2. We sign Marshall long term to a big contract and he suddenly performs a lot worse than the last 3 years or incurs an indefinite or 16 game suspension. (I really doubt the big drop in performance so this one hinges on suspension, again I would call this one somewhat probable).

3. We trade Marshall for a 1st round pick or something similar, that 1st round pick becomes a servicable player at best. (We have spend a big or moderate contract on a player who fails to deliver, in this case we might be slightly better off from a monetary stand point but worse on the field, so this reduces the quality of the team as well as costing money, since more than 50% of players drafted in the 1st round fails to live up to expectations and contract this is pretty likely).

4. We trade Marshall and get a player in return who plays at a consistent pro bowl level. (We save a bit of money at best and a get player who matches Marshalls level or almost matches but doesn't get suspended, a win)

Lets look at probabilities:

If we call Marshall getting a suspension 50/50, then that leaves us with a 50/50 shot of having a top talent in the league with no problems if we do not trade him.

In the 1st round in the 04, 05 and 06 drafts I count about 15 players I would call on the same level of Marshall in terms of peak performance and consistency, that is out of about 90 people drafted, making it about a 15% probability that we can get a player of that magnitude in the 1st round. Regardless a 1st round draft pick will cost us a pretty significant contract, especially a top 10 pick.

If we consider that a trade is 50/50 to happen or not, simplified I know that gives probabilities of outcome:

25% We keep Marshall and he doesn't get suspended.
25% We keep Marshall and he does get suspended.
7.5% We trade Marshall and get a player of similar level in the draft.
42.5% We trade Marshall get a player that is significantly worse in the draft.

Using this extremely simplified estimate of probabilities it is easy to see that we are better off keeping Marshall - if we do even in the worst case we have a highly productive player available some of the time and if we use a signing bonus as well as roster bonuses due right before the start of the league year to ensure that we can cut ties. On the other hand it if we trade him we are still on the hook for a big contract to a rookie who has an overwhelming probability of not matching the level of the player we traded.

2KBack
03-08-2010, 09:41 AM
You can only recall one game in which his had the opportunity and didn't win the game.

Marshall won the Dallas and New England games for us, he took over the Indy game and was the only player on that offense who did anything, and you can hardly blame him for the defense just standing by as Dallas Clark gave the Colts a 14 point lead - or is this another one of those players who is responsible for how the entire team performs when they are bad but not when they are good? He all but won the Redskins game right up until Priefer despite a time out couldn't work out how to react to a fake field goal and Simms somehow managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but maybe that was Marshalls faul as well?

No other player on this team gave us as good a chance to win so many games last season as Marshall did, that is a fact.

I can't agree with this. All credit to Marshall, none to anyone else in those games. Dallas was a great play, an amazing play, but it's not like he tore up that game. Moreno had as much to do with that win as Marshall, the defense even more. Eddie Royal was the leading receiver in the NE game, and you completely discount the fact that was probably Orton's finest game of his career. Washington was looking to top that game for Orton. If that game was all Marshall in the first half, why couldn't he do it again with Simms. You are giving the guy that catches the ball too much credit, and I doubt you are willing to give Orton credit as the guy who orchestrated these wins, and the first half of Wash.

Cito Pelon
03-08-2010, 09:43 AM
Just put me on ignore already... No one is b****ing and whining about my takes but you.

Please stop following me around and crying about everything I say...

BS. There's plenty of people tired of your sniveling. Every little thing is a potential disaster to you, Eeyore.

I'll make you a deal - you stop your constant sniveling, and I'll stop sniveling about your sniveling. Deal?

TheDave
03-08-2010, 09:45 AM
BS. There's plenty of people tired of your sniveling. Every little thing is a potential disaster to you, Eeyore.

I'll make you a deal - you stop your constant sniveling, and I'll stop sniveling about your sniveling. Deal?

I'll do it for both of us then... RIP.

ScottXray
03-08-2010, 09:47 AM
The good thing about all this is that by allowing him to go out and talk to other teams and see what they offer he is finally seeing what his real
marketability is. Seattle and whoever else want him...but if they don't offer guaranteed money up front he is in the same boat as if he stays with Denver,
who offerred him 9.25 million a year last year. Now he has a second pro-bowl...so a reasonably higher offer might come in....but Denver can match, or take a first round pick.

At some point even he will realise that his previous behavior is what holds him back.

chex
03-08-2010, 09:51 AM
He will get offers... I'm just afraid the offers will not match his talent or production.

They probably won't, and it is 100% tied to his baggage. That is something we will have to live with, and so be it. I think in the long run, it will work out to our benefit. I really don't think his troubles are behind him, and that, and that alone, is why I would let him walk. In my opinion, with all the talk on here the past year of the franchise being set back, I firmly believe that would really be the case with a big contract + his troubles. We would be like the NY Knicks with a hamstrung cap.

Play2win
03-08-2010, 09:51 AM
I would gladly give up Marshal for some (serious) help upfront-- on either the D-Line or O-Line.

Meaning that, I would have no problem if the team got worse in the WR department, if it could get (much) better in the Trenches. It would be a sacrifice definitely worth doing. It would also be an investment that would definitely benefit us in the mid/longterm.

Traveler
03-08-2010, 09:52 AM
You can only recall one game in which his had the opportunity and didn't win the game.

Marshall won the Dallas and New England games for us, he took over the Indy game and was the only player on that offense who did anything, and you can hardly blame him for the defense just standing by as Dallas Clark gave the Colts a 14 point lead - or is this another one of those players who is responsible for how the entire team performs when they are bad but not when they are good? He all but won the Redskins game right up until Priefer despite a time out couldn't work out how to react to a fake field goal and Simms somehow managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but maybe that was Marshalls faul as well?

No other player on this team gave us as good a chance to win so many games last season as Marshall did, that is a fact.

Dude, nowhere did I mention any other phases of this team. That's another discussion for another thread. I'm talking only about Marshall, so keep on topic.

I will agree there are other factors in many of our losses this past season. So, while BM does bring talent to our offense, he's not the type of player teams fear since his greatest asset is ability to make yardage after the catch. That my friend, doesn't win you alot of ball games.

Marshall didn't win any of the games you mentioned above for us. I've admitted his play was certainly a major part of it. You're still remain hard pressed to name any other games where Brandon play was the direct result in our winning that game or made the game winning play.

Brandon does most of his damage between the twenties.

That's why I stand by my comment that BM is not a game changer. If he was, even with all his baggage, teams would be clamoring for his services. They aren't!

More specifically to your mention above, he didn't help win the Redskins game. His two TD's were the result of busted coverages. Look at the tape again if you have them recorded.

Marshall is high risk, medium reward. Top ten talent at WR.

s0phr0syne
03-08-2010, 09:55 AM
There are 4 possibilities:

1. We sign Marshall long term to a big contract and he performs like he has over the last 3 years and doesn't get suspended indefinitely. (There is no indication that his performance would go down significantly so it really hinges on the suspension., lets call this one somewhat probable).

2. We sign Marshall long term to a big contract and he suddenly performs a lot worse than the last 3 years or incurs an indefinite or 16 game suspension. (I really doubt the big drop in performance so this one hinges on suspension, again I would call this one somewhat probable).

3. We trade Marshall for a 1st round pick or something similar, that 1st round pick becomes a servicable player at best. (We have spend a big or moderate contract on a player who fails to deliver, in this case we might be slightly better off from a monetary stand point but worse on the field, so this reduces the quality of the team as well as costing money, since more than 50% of players drafted in the 1st round fails to live up to expectations and contract this is pretty likely).

4. We trade Marshall and get a player in return who plays at a consistent pro bowl level. (We save a bit of money at best and a get player who matches Marshalls level or almost matches but doesn't get suspended, a win)

Lets look at probabilities:

If we call Marshall getting a suspension 50/50, then that leaves us with a 50/50 shot of having a top talent in the league with no problems if we do not trade him.

In the 1st round in the 04, 05 and 06 drafts I count about 15 players I would call on the same level of Marshall in terms of peak performance and consistency, that is out of about 90 people drafted, making it about a 15% probability that we can get a player of that magnitude in the 1st round. Regardless a 1st round draft pick will cost us a pretty significant contract, especially a top 10 pick.

If we consider that a trade is 50/50 to happen or not, simplified I know that gives probabilities of outcome:

25% We keep Marshall and he doesn't get suspended.
25% We keep Marshall and he does get suspended.
7.5% We trade Marshall and get a player of similar level in the draft.
42.5% We trade Marshall get a player that is significantly worse in the draft.

Using this extremely simplified estimate of probabilities it is easy to see that we are better off keeping Marshall - if we do even in the worst case we have a highly productive player available some of the time and if we use a signing bonus as well as roster bonuses due right before the start of the league year to ensure that we can cut ties. On the other hand it if we trade him we are still on the hook for a big contract to a rookie who has an overwhelming probability of not matching the level of the player we traded.


Great post

chaz
03-08-2010, 10:05 AM
No matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd.

A superstar turd. A once-in-a-decade turd.

Cool Breeze
03-08-2010, 10:06 AM
Mike Florio

6. Seahawks should pull an end run around the Broncos

With the Seattle Seahawks flirting with Brandon Marshall, the Broncos are getting the word out, loud and clear: If the Seahawks want Marshall, they need to sign him to an offer sheet and be prepared to give up the sixth overall pick in the draft.
The position is more than a little donkey-headed, given that the Seahawks also hold the 14th overall pick in the draft, which Denver sent to them in 2008 for a second-round pick. With the Broncos essentially begging someone to sign Marshall to an offer sheet by tendering the restricted free agent at the first-round level only, the Broncos should be happy with any first-round pick they can get.
So here's what the Seahawks should do. They should communicate to a team like the Saints or the Colts or anyone who picks below No. 14 the terms they'd be comfortable paying to Marshall, and the Seahawks should offer to those teams the 14th overall pick for Marshall's contract. Then, one of the teams picking below No. 14 should sign Marshall to an offer sheet.
It would be a lot easier for the Broncos just to take the 14th overall pick and send Marshall to Seattle. But if they refuse to relent, then the Seahawks should give some other team an easy chance to upgrade to No. 14 — and to stick the Broncos with a pick a lot lower than No. 6.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-03-08/10-pack-cowboys-redskins-oddly-quiet-during-first-few-days-nfl-free-agency

bronco militia
03-08-2010, 10:08 AM
Mike Florio

6. Seahawks should pull an end run around the Broncos

With the Seattle Seahawks flirting with Brandon Marshall, the Broncos are getting the word out, loud and clear: If the Seahawks want Marshall, they need to sign him to an offer sheet and be prepared to give up the sixth overall pick in the draft.
The position is more than a little donkey-headed, given that the Seahawks also hold the 14th overall pick in the draft, which Denver sent to them in 2008 for a second-round pick. With the Broncos essentially begging someone to sign Marshall to an offer sheet by tendering the restricted free agent at the first-round level only, the Broncos should be happy with any first-round pick they can get.
So here's what the Seahawks should do. They should communicate to a team like the Saints or the Colts or anyone who picks below No. 14 the terms they'd be comfortable paying to Marshall, and the Seahawks should offer to those teams the 14th overall pick for Marshall's contract. Then, one of the teams picking below No. 14 should sign Marshall to an offer sheet.
It would be a lot easier for the Broncos just to take the 14th overall pick and send Marshall to Seattle. But if they refuse to relent, then the Seahawks should give some other team an easy chance to upgrade to No. 14 ó and to stick the Broncos with a pick a lot lower than No. 6.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-03-08/10-pack-cowboys-redskins-oddly-quiet-during-first-few-days-nfl-free-agency

Ha!

florio is a moron!

TonyR
03-08-2010, 10:56 AM
Think about it this way... If a team needs a WR they would be foolish to sign a RFA to an offer sheet. Wait 7 days while all the other teams lap up the UFA WR's on the market only to have their tender matched. Point is RFA's don't recieve any action this early one. Be patient.


Maybe. But if you really want Marshall and think giving up a 1 for him is such a slam dunk don't you take a risk that another team will sign him while you're sitting home playing it safe? Denver has made it clear that they're willing to let him go so if you offer him a solid contract he's yours. I don't know if I buy that teams are strategically waiting. I think teams just question the risk that Marshall brings. If Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson were 1st round tendered do you think they'd still be without an offer sheet?

Traveler
03-08-2010, 11:09 AM
Maybe. But if you really want Marshall and think giving up a 1 for him is such a slam dunk don't you take a risk that another team will sign him while you're sitting home playing it safe? Denver has made it clear that they're willing to let him go so if you offer him a solid contract he's yours. I don't know if I buy that teams are strategically waiting. I think teams just question the risk that Marshall brings. If Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson were 1st round tendered do you think they'd still be without an offer sheet?

Nice post.

gyldenlove
03-08-2010, 11:33 AM
Dude, nowhere did I mention any other phases of this team. That's another discussion for another thread. I'm talking only about Marshall, so keep on topic.

I will agree there are other factors in many of our losses this past season. So, while BM does bring talent to our offense, he's not the type of player teams fear since his greatest asset is ability to make yardage after the catch. That my friend, doesn't win you alot of ball games.

Marshall didn't win any of the games you mentioned above for us. I've admitted his play was certainly a major part of it. You're still remain hard pressed to name any other games where Brandon play was the direct result in our winning that game or made the game winning play.

Brandon does most of his damage between the twenties.

That's why I stand by my comment that BM is not a game changer. If he was, even with all his baggage, teams would be clamoring for his services. They aren't!

More specifically to your mention above, he didn't help win the Redskins game. His two TD's were the result of busted coverages. Look at the tape again if you have them recorded.

Marshall is high risk, medium reward. Top ten talent at WR.

25% of the games we played is not enough for you?

No other player we have is even close in impact.

Marshall didn't win the Cowboys and Patriots games? you can't be serious. He didn't outperform the rest of the team and put the team in a position to win against the Colts and Redskins? He scored 7 TDs in those 4 games, 42 points, the rest of the team 28 points in those games including extra points after Marshalls TDs.

He does most of his damage between the 20s? only 6 players had more recieving TDs than Marshall. He does more damage than almost every other player in the red zone. He had more TDs than any other Bronco this year.

Then who is a game changer? Drew Brees wasn't sought for except by 2 teams, one of them tentatively. Boldin? a couple of teams. Vincent Jackson? no teams, Elvis Dumervil, no teams. You would think that these game changers would have the league clamoring for them wouldn't you?

Busted coverage huh. The secondary that was ranked number 1 in the league at the time couldn't cover Marshall but of course that wasn't his doing, the fact that he had more yards recieving than the rest of the team combined doesn't persuade you that it was more him than the Redskins?

Yeah, 10 TDs, 100 catches and 1100 yards is medium reward. Yet it was still a lot better than any other Bronco managed.

Just give up.

oubronco
03-08-2010, 11:36 AM
25% of the games we played is not enough for you?

No other player we have is even close in impact.

Marshall didn't win the Cowboys and Patriots games? you can't be serious. He didn't outperform the rest of the team and put the team in a position to win against the Colts and Redskins? He scored 7 TDs in those 4 games, 42 points, the rest of the team 28 points in those games including extra points after Marshalls TDs.

He does most of his damage between the 20s? only 6 players had more recieving TDs than Marshall. He does more damage than almost every other player in the red zone. He had more TDs than any other Bronco this year.

Then who is a game changer? Drew Brees wasn't sought for except by 2 teams, one of them tentatively. Boldin? a couple of teams. Vincent Jackson? no teams, Elvis Dumervil, no teams. You would think that these game changers would have the league clamoring for them wouldn't you?

Busted coverage huh. The secondary that was ranked number 1 in the league at the time couldn't cover Marshall but of course that wasn't his doing, the fact that he had more yards recieving than the rest of the team combined doesn't persuade you that it was more him than the Redskins?

Yeah, 10 TDs, 100 catches and 1100 yards is medium reward. Yet it was still a lot better than any other Bronco managed.

Just give up.

good post some poeple just don't get it

RonDaChamp24
03-08-2010, 11:53 AM
I've yet to see him do so. He's made some great catches, scored some touchdowns, but he has yet to win a single ball game for us by elevating his play. He's not a long-ball, downfield threat.

Brandon's greatest talent is making yards after the catch. Just doesn't do that consistently enough and sometimes gets alligator arms going across the middle.

Hell, even his 20+ catch game wasn't enough to help us win. Brandon is not a game changer.

While he is a top ten WR, he has enough baggage that will make it difficult for him to get the type of money his talent suggest he should be making.

Did you see the Dallas game? I was at the game and he did elevate his play and WIN that game for us.

broncswin
03-08-2010, 12:00 PM
"Deserve" has nothing to do with it. He deserves exactly what he gets because remember this...if it weren't for football he'd be in jail where he belongs.

Rep...I don't know why all these people think Marsh deserves more than what Denver is giving him...this guy would be a pile of shiat if it weren't for the NFL...not the other way around, so please save your he has earned it...the Broncos are so mean to him...think about it more like this...if you f-d up as much as Marsh would your boss be trying to give you a raise and grant your every wish..if so where in the hell do I sign up!!:thanku:

Caligula
03-08-2010, 12:04 PM
Rep...I don't know why all these people think Marsh deserves more than what Denver is giving him...this guy would be a pile of shiat if it weren't for the NFL...not the other way around, so please save your he has earned it...the Broncos are so mean to him...think about it more like this...if you f-d up as much as Marsh would your boss be trying to give you a raise and grant your every wish..if so where in the hell do I sign up!!:thanku:

If you were making him as much money as Marshall is making the Broncos...damn right.

2KBack
03-08-2010, 12:06 PM
Did you see the Dallas game? I was at the game and he did elevate his play and WIN that game for us.

Sort of. The game was tied, and Denver was moving the ball with ease on that drive. A great play for sure, and very exciting, but Denver wasn't exactly in a hole that the great Marshall needed to pull them out of.

A lot of people seem to forget that the Dallas game ended on a goal line stand as well. Champ was actually the hero of the Dallas game.

broncswin
03-08-2010, 12:08 PM
If you were making him as much money as Marshall is making the Broncos...damn right.

And can you tell me how much money Marsh is making the Broncos, with your inside know it all?

Caligula
03-08-2010, 12:10 PM
25% of the games we played is not enough for you?

No other player we have is even close in impact.

Marshall didn't win the Cowboys and Patriots games? you can't be serious. He didn't outperform the rest of the team and put the team in a position to win against the Colts and Redskins? He scored 7 TDs in those 4 games, 42 points, the rest of the team 28 points in those games including extra points after Marshalls TDs.

He does most of his damage between the 20s? only 6 players had more recieving TDs than Marshall. He does more damage than almost every other player in the red zone. He had more TDs than any other Bronco this year.

Then who is a game changer? Drew Brees wasn't sought for except by 2 teams, one of them tentatively. Boldin? a couple of teams. Vincent Jackson? no teams, Elvis Dumervil, no teams. You would think that these game changers would have the league clamoring for them wouldn't you?

Busted coverage huh. The secondary that was ranked number 1 in the league at the time couldn't cover Marshall but of course that wasn't his doing, the fact that he had more yards recieving than the rest of the team combined doesn't persuade you that it was more him than the Redskins?

Yeah, 10 TDs, 100 catches and 1100 yards is medium reward. Yet it was still a lot better than any other Bronco managed.

Just give up.


Good post....... I think some actually believe Gaffney would take over and repeat the same kind of stats. After all, he did such a great job against the chiefs :~ohyah!:

TheDave
03-08-2010, 12:12 PM
Maybe. But if you really want Marshall and think giving up a 1 for him is such a slam dunk don't you take a risk that another team will sign him while you're sitting home playing it safe? Denver has made it clear that they're willing to let him go so if you offer him a solid contract he's yours. I don't know if I buy that teams are strategically waiting. I think teams just question the risk that Marshall brings. If Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson were 1st round tendered do you think they'd still be without an offer sheet?

I don't know... There is a reason why this happens every year with RFA's. This isn't the first time.

As far as Marshall goes, I've always felt teams will try and wait us out. So far it looks like that is happening.

Rohirrim
03-08-2010, 12:14 PM
Any minute now, teams who really need a WR are going to be busting down our doors waving their first round picks in the air...






...any minute now.

Beantown Bronco
03-08-2010, 12:38 PM
People love to bring up the Cowboys game because of that last catch and run, but what they fail to acknowledge are two things:

1. He did NOTHING in that game for 58 minutes. NOTHING.

2. The game was tied and they most likely win that game even if he doesn't make that play to end the game. He didn't make some miracle play like was needed at the end of the Cincy game in order to win it.

The Pats game is the one and only game in which his absence probably turns a win into a loss if we simply play Gaffney in place of Marshall.

Good post....... I think some actually believe Gaffney would take over and repeat the same kind of stats. After all, he did such a great job against the chiefs :~ohyah!:

And the Eagles. And neither of those pass defenses were ranked in the bottom third of the league, so try again. People bag on KC, but their pass defense was actually not that bad last year.

TonyR
03-08-2010, 12:45 PM
I don't know... There is a reason why this happens every year with RFA's. This isn't the first time.

As far as Marshall goes, I've always felt teams will try and wait us out. So far it looks like that is happening.

To your first point, agree that it happens frequently with RFA's. But I think it's much less frequent that players of Marshall's caliber are RFA's, and when they are they are tendered at the highest level and/or you know the team is almost certain to match the offer. Marshall wasn't tendered a 1st and 3rd and there is high uncertainty that Denver will match.

To your second point, may be something to that. Could well be a team or two lurking. But giving up a 1st rounder and signing a player to a big contract is a pretty huge move and I'd think teams would have a pretty good feel for whether or not they want to make a deal like that by this point. And if you want him you've only got one chance to beat another suitor to the punch.

24champ
03-08-2010, 12:54 PM
This is the toughest situation to figure out...

Brandon is one of, if not the most gifted recievers I've seen in a VERY long time. We are absolutely a better team with him on the field.

On the other hand, he is one of the biggest head cases I've ever seen.

I don't blame the FO for shopping him, I'm just afraid if he is traded they have no idea how to replace him.

In the end, staying here on a one year deal is the best for us... assuming he doesn't lose his mind playing for $2.5mil again.

A big headcase that tries to disupt things in the locker room. Marshall acting like a good boy and having "fun" with his new Head Coach was all a show. For both the Broncos and for himself, the Broncos would get the compensation they want for him. For Marshall and his agent, they get the contract they have been seeking.

I don't see the Broncos attempting to replace him, they will go ahead and address other areas of the team. Making it more complete and adding depth.

Traveler
03-08-2010, 01:46 PM
I see everyone keeps mentioning the Dallas game. Nothing more.

My point stands. I'm still waiting for the listing of other 09 games in which Brandon made the game winning play.

I'm going to do a little research and comparison to determine his value in the redzone and address some the statements posted earlier by gyldenlove to see if what was said bear out.

My guess is that the truth falls somewhere in the middle. Brandon is a good player, not elite. He's a very good possession receiver.

Although his possible departure might hurt the team, it'll be addition by subtraction IMO.

Caligula
03-08-2010, 03:52 PM
My guess is that the truth falls somewhere in the middle. Brandon is a good player, not elite. He's a very good possession receiver.

.

I absolutely HATE this statement. I've read it so many times, and its so not the truth.

Here are a couple other "possession" WRs' stats after their first four seasons in the NFL.

Larry Fitzgerald: 330rec ... 4544yrds ... 13.7ypc ... 34 TDs

Andre Johnson: 311rec ... 3953yrds ... 12.7ypc ... 17 TDs

Brandon Marshall: 327rec ... 4019yrds ... 12.3ypc ... 25TDs

I guess Larry and Andre are just as much 'possession' WRs as well. I guess they aren't Elite, either.

Caligula
03-08-2010, 03:54 PM
And the Eagles. And neither of those pass defenses were ranked in the bottom third of the league, so try again. People bag on KC, but their pass defense was actually not that bad last year.

They were 29th in points and 30th in yards against. They had absolutely no pass rush. THeir defense was bad, their pass defense was NOT good in the least. They didn't even man-up on Gaffney.

The MVPlaya
03-08-2010, 03:57 PM
lol Caligula - you seem like someone who just looks at numbers to prove your case rather than watching actual football.

Brandon Marshall is not a deep threat.

bowtown
03-08-2010, 04:17 PM
I don't know... There is a reason why this happens every year with RFA's. This isn't the first time.

As far as Marshall goes, I've always felt teams will try and wait us out. So far it looks like that is happening.

I agree with this. I think that it being the last year of the CBA also plays a big part. Teams, in general, are really appprehensive about signing huge money deals this year. Even if Branon didn't have his past problems, I'm not sure he would be signed to an offer sheet already. I think Brandon might be right that this could last all the way up to the draft... maybe even longer.

Here's the question. Let's say no one signs him to an offer sheet, if Brandon doesn't sign his tender with us by June 1, he can only negotiating a new contract with us for the rest of the season. If he signs our tender before June 1, then he can be traded for lesser compensation BUT he runs the risk of being on our roster all season at the tender price. So what does Brandon do? At what point does he bite the bullet and sign the tender?

Beantown Bronco
03-08-2010, 07:02 PM
They were 29th in points and 30th in yards against. They had absolutely no pass rush. THeir defense was bad, their pass defense was NOT good in the least. They didn't even man-up on Gaffney.

My sole comment was pass defense. Conveniently ignoring that are we?

Their 31st ranked rush defense was the cause of what you point out above. Their pass defense was actually a relative "bright" spot. 22nd ranked overall and gave up only 30 yds more per game through the air than the #5 ranked team.

And nothing about Philly's pass d? Convenient again.

DenverBrit
03-08-2010, 07:34 PM
lol Caligula - you seem like someone who just looks at numbers to prove your case rather than watching actual football.

Brandon Marshall is not a deep threat.



Sounds like Boob.

Dedhed
03-08-2010, 07:52 PM
Here's what it boils down to for me:

The likelihood of Marshall having another run in with the law, getting suspended, being a distraction in the locker room, etc is far greater to me than a first round pick being a total bust; particularly in one of the most talent rich draft classes in recent memory.

Marshall can play, he's also a flava clown. Unfortunately I think he's going to live up to his nickname and always be an uber-talented distraction.

oubronco
03-08-2010, 07:55 PM
lol Caligula - you seem like someone who just looks at numbers to prove your case rather than watching actual football.

Brandon Marshall is not a deep threat.

What are you talking about? Where have you been for the last 3 yrs

Tombstone RJ
03-08-2010, 08:01 PM
Bmarsh is a deep threat, but that's not his strength. He's not gonna outrun a CB, but he is gonna overpower them. He's as much of a complete WR as anyone else in the NFL, but his strength is redzone production and possession receiving.

The MVPlaya
03-08-2010, 08:26 PM
Looks like he likes Denver...

Marshall at the Nuggets and Blazers game yesterday

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100308/capt.2240ace316bc4a7aafc456c82ba1f944.trail_blazer s_nuggets_basketball_codz104.jpg

gyldenlove
03-08-2010, 08:26 PM
Bmarsh is a deep threat, but that's not his strength. He's not gonna outrun a CB, but he is gonna overpower them. He's as much of a complete WR as anyone else in the NFL, but his strength is redzone production and possession receiving.

You tell em!

The MVPlaya
03-08-2010, 08:38 PM
Bmarsh is a deep threat, but that's not his strength. He's not gonna outrun a CB, but he is gonna overpower them. He's as much of a complete WR as anyone else in the NFL, but his strength is redzone production and possession receiving.

in 2008, the last year with Jay and when we were 2nd in yards -

Marshall's longest catch was 47 yards (not a TD). He had 1 catch for 32, 2 catches for 34 yards and 1 for 35 yards.

Outside of those catches - his longest catch for the rest of the season was 24 yards, which happened once...and he did not have a catch over 21 yards from those catches.

You don't have to look at stats though - as I'm willing to bet a lot of those longer catches were yards after the catch.

Marshall is not a deep threat. Anyone who watches other teams can easily identify this.

If you've ever watches Andre Johnson - Larry Fitzgerald - Steve Smith (Panthers) - Desean Jackson - etc, those are deep threats.

Marshall's WEAKNESS, is the deep ball in stride aka Randy Moss esque catches.

chaz
03-08-2010, 09:45 PM
Brandon Marshall is not a deep threat.

Moss, DJax, AndreJ wouldn't be deep threats either with Orton throwing them the ball and McD calling the dink and dunk

Florida_Bronco
03-08-2010, 09:52 PM
Moss, DJax, AndreJ wouldn't be deep threats either with Orton throwing them the ball and McD calling the dink and dunk

That's funny. Randy Moss set an NFL record for touchdown catches in McDaniel's offense.

Popps
03-08-2010, 10:18 PM
Looks like he likes Denver...

Marshall at the Nuggets and Blazers game yesterday

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100308/capt.2240ace316bc4a7aafc456c82ba1f944.trail_blazer s_nuggets_basketball_codz104.jpg

LOL

Look at the little dude on the bottom right.

Looking at Marshall like... "could you please get your **** together?"

Tomeboy58801
03-08-2010, 11:24 PM
I do not think Brandon wants to be a Bronco, he was offered a contract and did not accept, I know he wants more money upfront, but with his past I am not sure you can give him a ton of upfront money. Any team that signs him should protect themselves, in case he is a retard again and gets in trouble. Make his contract void if he gets in trouble again and is suspended. I know he is a nightmare on the field, but he is also a nightmare off the field. Good luck with whatever team gets him, they will need it, including Denver if they resign him.

UberBroncoMan
03-08-2010, 11:46 PM
That's funny. Randy Moss set an NFL record for touchdown catches in McDaniel's offense.

Orton isn't Tom Brady is the point I think he was getting at.

Florida_Bronco
03-09-2010, 12:05 AM
Orton isn't Tom Brady is the point I think he was getting at. He made a point of mentioning McD's "dink and dunk" offense.

ZONA
03-09-2010, 12:59 AM
No doubt there is risk with BM due to his past. But we also must remember something as we look at this. I honestly believe BM wants to be a great player in this league for a long time. He likes money just like anybody else does and he knows messing up off the field again is only going to erode his chances of making big dollars and staying on the field so that he can produce and achieve his personal and team goals. He is also maturing and learning from his mistakes. He showed that after his team suspension early last season by accepting that he had to honor his current contract and go help contribute to the team and did he ever. This whole thing about him not playing in the final game was not his choice, he was sat down by a rookie head coach who later admitted that he may have not been thinking with a cool head. The entire thing may have easily been overblown into something it really wasn't. He was taking injections on the sideline in the previous game so we know he was indeed hurt. To what extent, who really knows. That's the past. BM produces on the field and I don't think the risk of him messing up is as high as it was previously.

But you have to be open about this thing going either way. Him going to another team and us getting a 1st round pick or him staying. If he stays, he will be ripping it up on the field and be careful if you are trashing the guy because there are going to be many times next year you are going to be happy he is wearing a Broncos uni and giving your buddy a high five as he hauls in a TD or makes a big play. You can't have it both ways. Trash the guy here all offseason and then love him as he produces big plays for us again next year. What, are you going to bang on him here and then when he makes big plays, say to your buddy, ah damn, there goes that guy I hate playing well again for us, lol.

rastaman
03-09-2010, 03:25 AM
in 2008, the last year with Jay and when we were 2nd in yards -

Marshall's longest catch was 47 yards (not a TD). He had 1 catch for 32, 2 catches for 34 yards and 1 for 35 yards.

Outside of those catches - his longest catch for the rest of the season was 24 yards, which happened once...and he did not have a catch over 21 yards from those catches.

You don't have to look at stats though - as I'm willing to bet a lot of those longer catches were yards after the catch.

Marshall is not a deep threat. Anyone who watches other teams can easily identify this.

If you've ever watches Andre Johnson - Larry Fitzgerald - Steve Smith (Panthers) - Desean Jackson - etc, those are deep threats.

Marshall's WEAKNESS, is the deep ball in stride aka Randy Moss esque catches.

If Marshall's weakness is catching the ball in-stride especially last season, you need to question Orton's inability to throw long accurately and inconsistently as well. Last season on several occasions Orton could not hit Brandon in full stride. Marshall had to slow down to make circus catches or Orton under threw Marshall to where the CB could deflect the ball away.

In fact Orton is not known for nor does he have a reputation for having a big arm and having the ability to hit his receivers in full stride.

Having just played two years with Cutler who has a big time arm and could throw the deep, can't say how many deep-fly patterns Shanny called with Marshall the main target.

So the jury is still out on whether or not Brandon is a deep threat or whether he can catch the ball in full stride. We haven't seen Marshall at his peak or physical prime yet.

rastaman
03-09-2010, 03:45 AM
I do not think Brandon wants to be a Bronco, he was offered a contract and did not accept, I know he wants more money upfront, but with his past I am not sure you can give him a ton of upfront money. Any team that signs him should protect themselves, in case he is a retard again and gets in trouble. Make his contract void if he gets in trouble again and is suspended. I know he is a nightmare on the field, but he is also a nightmare off the field. Good luck with whatever team gets him, they will need it, including Denver if they resign him.

Denver has scared teams away from signing Marshall for the high compensation of draft picks Denver is demanding. The Broncos have unfortunately planted in teams minds that Marshall is one off the field incident away from an 8 game suspension etc., and further run in with the law.

The irony is Denver is demanding top 5 draft compensation, yet aren't willing to pay him top 5 WR salary, using their reasoning they are afraid of Brandons potential for suspension or further off the field problems. Well shouldn't other teams interested in Marshall's services be concerned with the same possibilities.

Denver is running the risk of passing up what could be the highest value they can get for Brandon in 2010, while running the risk in 2011 Marshall's value may not be as high and the same goes for 2012. Bowlen would be smart to tell NFL owners he's willing to take a 14th-32nd first round pick for Brandon and just move on. The risk of doing otherwise, i.e. insisting upon a #6 and
4th round pick for trading Brandon in 2010 could blow in their faces.

We already know the chances of McD and Brandon getting along for the entire 2010 season is "Slim-to-None"! Marshall will enter into the 2010 season not being a distraction during training camp and the pre-season games. Marshall will seek his revenge for being under paid by taking plays off during games or not playing hurt...when he could have played b/c Denver has poisoned the well and scared off teams while demanding unfair compenstation trade demands, all while under paying him in 2010.

Remember Ranndy Moss's value/trade compensation while in Oakland dropped all the way down to a 4th round pick compensation. Same scenario could happen to Denver with Marshall. Meanwhile, in two or three years Marshall will still be one talented beast with a new team and Denver won't be compensated for the talent they lost.

Beantown Bronco
03-09-2010, 03:52 AM
Denver is demanding top 5 draft compensation, .

False. Try top 32 draft compensation.

Bowlen would be smart to tell NFL owners he's willing to take a 14th-32nd first round pick for Brandon and just move on. The risk of doing otherwise, i.e. insisting upon a #6 and
4th round pick for trading Brandon in 2010 could blow in their faces.

Dude, we've only explained this 2,458 times. By definition, he has already told NFL owners that he's willing to take the 14th-32nd pick by giving Marshall the first round tender. If one of those teams that holds those picks want Marshall and sign him to an offer sheet, Bowlen has no choice but to accept it (or match the offer).

DBroncos4life
03-09-2010, 03:57 AM
My sole comment was pass defense. Conveniently ignoring that are we?

Their 31st ranked rush defense was the cause of what you point out above. Their pass defense was actually a relative "bright" spot. 22nd ranked overall and gave up only 30 yds more per game through the air than the #5 ranked team.

And nothing about Philly's pass d? Convenient again.

I guess the Lions pass defense was OK too. It was only gave up 30 yards more yards then the 22nd ranked D. Philly's pass D was out of the top 15 as well, but you have this magic 30 yard rule so I guess Philly would have finished in the top 3 if they didn't allow 30 more yards then they really did.

bowtown
03-09-2010, 04:00 AM
Denver has scared teams away from signing Marshall for the high compensation of draft picks Denver is demanding. The Broncos have unfortunately planted in teams minds that Marshall is one off the field incident away from an 8 game suspension etc., and further run in with the law.

I'm sorry, the Broncos have planted this in teams' minds? Seems to me that Brandon Marshall and Rodger Goodell have a lot more to do with that one.

DBroncos4life
03-09-2010, 04:18 AM
He made a point of mentioning McD's "dink and dunk" offense.

The Pats O was good before, during, and now after McD. One year since 2001 have the Pats failed to be in the top ten in scoring. The season they failed to be in the top ten they finished 12th. More often then not you will find the Pats in the top 10 in yards too. I'm sure McD put some new wrinkles on the Pats O from when Weis was there but I also believe McD had better talent at WR then Weis as well. McD over the season had some good game plans and some bad ones. I don't think our drop off in yards, points, third down %, and red zone % means we need to panic and that McD isn't capable of coaching a good O either. I just think we should give the credit to BB in having the system that he has in place for his coordinators to be successful during their time with the Pats.

The MVPlaya
03-09-2010, 04:19 AM
If Marshall's weakness is catching the ball in-stride especially last season, you need to question Orton's inability to throw long accurately and inconsistently as well. Last season on several occasions Orton could not hit Brandon in full stride. Marshall had to slow down to make circus catches or Orton under threw Marshall to where the CB could deflect the ball away.

In fact Orton is not known for nor does he have a reputation for having a big arm and having the ability to hit his receivers in full stride.

Having just played two years with Cutler who has a big time arm and could throw the deep, can't say how many deep-fly patterns Shanny called with Marshall the main target.

So the jury is still out on whether or not Brandon is a deep threat or whether he can catch the ball in full stride. We haven't seen Marshall at his peak or physical prime yet.

You quoted me in order to say that? I did not even mention Orton.

I OBVIOUSLY picked 2008 with Cutler for a reason, because the deep ball with Orton probably wouldn't be the most accurate gauge with that. :rofl:

Seriously tho - this is not last season - this is his career as a player.

If Marshall was a deep threat he'd be the best WR in the league right now, why do you think he isn't? His hands are a question at times, but he'd be easily the best if he was a deep threat. You can't line up Marshall against a DB and expect him to burn him, and even tho he is super physical and beastly, his hands aren't like Fitz where he can always out battle and get the catch.

all you need to do is watch game tape on BM and see that he's not a deep threat - it's not even a debate.

Paladin
03-09-2010, 06:53 AM
<TABLE class=tborder id=post2771206 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=5 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt1>This message is hidden because rastaman is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).
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This guy is just too fugging dense to even read...........
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watermock
03-09-2010, 06:55 AM
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This guy is just too fugging dense to even read...........
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Why do you post then?
STFU.