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Archer81
03-03-2010, 01:48 PM
Ok, I am taking psychology 101, and this class is possibly the wierdest one I have ever been in. I have never taken a class based on a science that relies more on a gray area than this course. Are all psychology courses this way or am I just in a special class?


:Broncos:

OABB
03-03-2010, 01:58 PM
Ok, I am taking psychology 101, and this class is possibly the wierdest one I have ever been in. I have never taken a class based on a science that relies more on a gray area than this course. Are all psychology courses this way or am I just in a special class?


:Broncos:

they are all this way...It's a psuedo science. Just like prescription drugs for depression. I tried to argue this before but got a lot of psychculties upset(the dave)...

Pseudofool
03-03-2010, 02:18 PM
No, they aren't all that way. Psychological Stat classes and Psych Research and Methods class are pretty math based. Cognitive psychology and Abnormal Psychology tends to rely much more on biology, than say Freud. While classes like Psychology of Personality really work with metaphor to understand how the mind works.

Psychology as a discipline has it's roots in the Humanities, so an introductory course, is likely to be less science-y.

All 101 classes tend to short-sell their disciplines. Institutionally, 101 courses are used to weed out non-majors who aren't serious about the given discipline. So they tend to be tedious and generalized.

Mediator12
03-03-2010, 02:23 PM
Psych is not pseudoscience, it is just not as reliable as other sciences based on the limitations of self reporting. It still follows the scientific method, but the science part is harder to establish without objective measures like chemistry, physics, and biology. It requires a ton of subjective analysis and much more research to quantify results.

In essence, a lot of people might call it pseudo science because it uses more qualitative data versus quantatative data. The whole problem of narrowing variables and isolating results makes it much less reliable in its results than some of the other sciences.

I think it will grow as neuroscience expands its parameters to establish certain things that currently can not be measured. However, I will call it a limited science because it can not explain things as easily as chemistry can. I am a big fan of Cognitive-Behavioral science, but it suffers from the same things all psychology studies do. Humans are predictable, but not reliable sources of data.

Play2win
03-03-2010, 02:27 PM
B.S. - M.S. - PhD.

Bullsh*t... More Sh*t... Piled Higher and Deeper... ;D

Br0nc0Buster
03-03-2010, 02:28 PM
A lot of it is backed by evidence based models

It is a bit more abstract and therefore can seem like it is less scientific, but for the stuff your class will be talking it is far from "pseudoscience"

I have taken 3 psych classes so far and enjoyed all of them
Interesting stuff

I recall learning about parts of the brain and basic emotions in my intro psych class
IMO it starts getting better once you get past the intro stuff

Archer81
03-03-2010, 02:35 PM
A lot of it is backed by evidence based models

It is a bit more abstract and therefore can seem like it is less scientific, but for the stuff your class will be talking it is far from "pseudoscience"

I have taken 3 psych classes so far and enjoyed all of them
Interesting stuff

I recall learning about parts of the brain and basic emotions in my intro psych class
IMO it starts getting better once you get past the intro stuff


We learned about the brain. For midterms she is having us write a paper on any topic we've covered rather than give us a test. So I wrote about Erik Erikson's psychosocial development stages.

:Broncos:

Cito Pelon
03-03-2010, 02:38 PM
WTF, it was an elective, right? You could have chosen a better elective, IMO. What's your major?

Psych 101 is where you meet potential party partners, basically. There's maybe one person in the 40 Psych 101 classes offered at a major University that will get a PhD in psychology. It's a party elective, they may as well call it Party 101 or FoolAround 101.

OABB
03-03-2010, 02:39 PM
Psych is not pseudoscience, it is just not as reliable as other sciences based on the limitations of self reporting. It still follows the scientific method, but the science part is harder to establish without objective measures like chemistry, physics, and biology. It requires a ton of subjective analysis and much more research to quantify results.

In essence, a lot of people might call it pseudo science because it uses more qualitative data versus quantatative data. The whole problem of narrowing variables and isolating results makes it much less reliable in its results than some of the other sciences.

I think it will grow as neuroscience expands its parameters to establish certain things that currently can not be measured. However, I will call it a limited science because it can not explain things as easily as chemistry can. I am a big fan of Cognitive-Behavioral science, but it suffers from the same things all psychology studies do. Humans are predictable, but not reliable sources of data.



You say Tomato I say Tomato.....Psuedoscience or "Limited" science as you call it makes the same basic point.

Limited is as "grey area" as psuedo imo.

Archer81
03-03-2010, 02:40 PM
WTF, it was an elective, right? You could have chosen a better elective, IMO. What's your major?

Psych 101 is where you meet potential party partners, basically. There's maybe one person in the 40 Psych 101 classes offered at a major University that will get a PhD in psychology. It's a party elective, they may as well call it Party 101 or FoolAround 101.


Anthropology and political science. It is an elective. I wanted to take abnormal psych, but the advisor thought this would be a better class...


:Broncos:

Ray Finkle
03-03-2010, 02:50 PM
Ok, I am taking psychology 101, and this class is possibly the wierdest one I have ever been in. I have never taken a class based on a science that relies more on a gray area than this course. Are all psychology courses this way or am I just in a special class?


:Broncos:

101 is typically crap. It when you get into some of the more specialized classes, that it gets interesting. Abnormal Psych, Physiology, Developmental....those were some of my favorites.

I was a Psych Major/Criminology Minor in my undergrad years.

Pick Six
03-03-2010, 02:52 PM
Anthropology and political science. It is an elective. I wanted to take abnormal psych, but the advisor thought this would be a better class...


:Broncos:

That could have been a wrong move. You're in political science. It doesn't get much more "abnormal" than politicians...

OOJack
03-03-2010, 02:58 PM
Psych is not pseudoscience, it is just not as reliable as other sciences based on the limitations of self reporting. It still follows the scientific method, but the science part is harder to establish without objective measures like chemistry, physics, and biology. It requires a ton of subjective analysis and much more research to quantify results.

In essence, a lot of people might call it pseudo science because it uses more qualitative data versus quantatative data. The whole problem of narrowing variables and isolating results makes it much less reliable in its results than some of the other sciences.

I think it will grow as neuroscience expands its parameters to establish certain things that currently can not be measured. However, I will call it a limited science because it can not explain things as easily as chemistry can. I am a big fan of Cognitive-Behavioral science, but it suffers from the same things all psychology studies do. Humans are predictable, but not reliable sources of data.

Psychology is not a science. It's a bunch of random theories.

Cito Pelon
03-03-2010, 03:06 PM
Anthropology and political science. It is an elective. I wanted to take abnormal psych, but the advisor thought this would be a better class...


:Broncos:

You have a double major? Are you planning on making a career from those, or do you just want a great education?

You'll get a great education from Political Science courses, because you'll have to read and read and read and read from Aristotle to Henry Kissinger. I only made it to PoliSci 301 and the professor asked me if I was serious about it or just fooling around, taking a slot away from someone. I said I'm just trying to learn, he said "Here's a reading list for you, and don't take 401."

In fairness, I was just fooling around. I was on the GI Bill, and trying to cram as much education into the 48 months available, not serious about a PoliSci degree. That PoliSci 301 was pretty brutal.

Archer81
03-03-2010, 03:09 PM
You have a double major? Are you planning on making a career from those, or do you just want a great education?

You'll get a great education from Political Science courses, because you'll have to read and read and read and read from Aristotle to Henry Kissinger. I only made it to PoliSci 301 and the professor asked me if I was serious about it or just fooling around, taking a slot away from someone. I said I'm just trying to learn, he said "Here's a reading list for you, and don't take 401."

In fairness, I was just fooling around. I was on the GI Bill, and trying to cram as much education into the 48 months available, not serious about a PoliSci degree. That PoliSci 301 was pretty brutal.


Both. People interest me. We are all crazy, so that is why I am taking anthropology, political science just has my interest, and I want to pursue it. Reading im good with.

:Broncos:

Ray Finkle
03-03-2010, 03:13 PM
Psychology is not a science. It's a bunch of random theories.

to those that don't study it. Psychology is more math based than I think you realize.

Cito Pelon
03-03-2010, 03:15 PM
Anthropology and political science. It is an elective. I wanted to take abnormal psych, but the advisor thought this would be a better class...


:Broncos:

History would be a better elective for you. You can probably skip the survey history courses because you're a PoliSci/anthropology major. You could jump into History 201 or even 301. PoliSci and History go hand in hand, they dovetail.

I think you'll find some of the same reading material applies to both. Look into it. A big deal is to go talk to your professors a lot, take every opportunity to talk to them during office hours, catch them after class, any opportunity you get.

Archer81
03-03-2010, 03:18 PM
History would be a better elective for you. You can probably skip the survey history courses because you're a PoliSci/anthropology major. You could jump into History 201 or even 301. PoliSci and History go hand in hand, they dovetail.

I think you'll find some of the same reading material applies to both. Look into it. A big deal is to go talk to your professors a lot, take every opportunity to talk to them during office hours, catch them after class, any opportunity you get.


I have 5 classes this semester. 3 of them have to deal directly with my majors. Other two are geography and psychology. One is an elective, the other a requirement...cant believe I have to take geography again.

:Broncos:

OOJack
03-03-2010, 03:19 PM
to those that don't study it. Psychology is more math based than I think you realize.

haha, i have, it's more like a religion than anything...and if you mean statistical analysis on pools of individuals, that doesn't count.

Cito Pelon
03-03-2010, 03:24 PM
Both. People interest me. We are all crazy, so that is why I am taking anthropology, political science just has my interest, and I want to pursue it. Reading im good with.

:Broncos:

So anthropology is your major, minor in PoliSci?

Archer81
03-03-2010, 03:26 PM
So anthropology is your major, minor in PoliSci?


Double major. If I added a minor I think my head would explode. My advisors recommended I load up as many of the required classes as possible the first 3 semesters, with some electives sprinkled in...some of these classes I took back in middle school. Seems a little redundant.


:Broncos:

Ray Finkle
03-03-2010, 03:41 PM
haha, i have, it's more like a religion than anything...and if you mean statistical analysis on pools of individuals, that doesn't count.

not at all...it all depends on what field you are concentrating on. Metapsychology may be similar but you cannot compare all psychological studies to religious studies.

Cito Pelon
03-03-2010, 03:42 PM
Double major. If I added a minor I think my head would explode. My advisors recommended I load up as many of the required classes as possible the first 3 semesters, with some electives sprinkled in...some of these classes I took back in middle school. Seems a little redundant.


:Broncos:

Seems to me you've been around a little bit, so you can tell your advisors "geography" is not gonna happen. You can probably jump into more advanced classes and skip the 101 garbage. I went through the same baloney when I jumped from the US Army to University. They thought I was just some dumb **** with just a high school diploma and couldn't jump past the survey courses. I challenged a few times and took it to the omnibus. And won.

Don't f around, if you're sure of your knowledge tell them you want to jump right into 201 or 301. Of course, you're gonna have to read and read and read and read. I mean really read like crazy.

OOJack
03-03-2010, 03:47 PM
not at all...it all depends on what field you are concentrating on. Metapsychology may be similar but you cannot compare all psychological studies to religious studies.

opinion, not science

Irish Stout
03-03-2010, 03:58 PM
opinion, not science

Biological Psychology and Clinical Psychology disagree with you.

Ray Finkle
03-03-2010, 04:03 PM
opinion, not science

Psychology is a science. It is not based upon opinion....you are showing your lack of knowledge on this.

Pseudofool
03-03-2010, 04:15 PM
The problem with psychology is it applies the scientific method to phenomenons that are largely unmeasurable. It doesn't make it worthless, just problematic.

OABB
03-03-2010, 04:21 PM
The problem with psychology is it applies the scientific method to phenomenons that are largely unmeasurable. It doesn't make it worthless, just problematic.

so do Ghost Hunters.

SportinOne
03-03-2010, 04:24 PM
Newly declared psych. major. 6 courses under my belt so far. I have no idea what i'll do with the degree as of yet but i find it incredibly interesting and I would encourage anyone to take a couple psych. classes as electives. You just might learn something about yourself.

Lev Vyvanse
03-03-2010, 04:28 PM
It's a "soft" science.

SportinOne
03-03-2010, 04:39 PM
so do Ghost Hunters.

Agreeableness: low. Your avatar might indicate that this is a trend with you. If so, you are prone to lower levels of empathy as well as fewer instances of joy. Your version of joy is to feel content, and are sad more often than you are angry.

You could also be low in extraversion and have a tendency to withdraw from others.. You are also likely to have a higher level of neuroticism than most.

But don't worry, with the new health care bill that Obama is George-W.-Bushing through you will probably be able to afford a good psychiatrist.

:thumbsup:

Lev Vyvanse
03-03-2010, 04:50 PM
Agreeableness: low. Your avatar might indicate that this is a trend with you. If so, you are prone to lower levels of empathy as well as fewer instances of joy. Your version of joy is to feel content, and are sad more often than you are angry.

You could also be low in extraversion and have a tendency to withdraw from others.. You are also likely to have a higher level of neuroticism than most.

But don't worry, with the new health care bill that Obama is George-W.-Bushing through you will probably be able to afford a good psychiatrist.

:thumbsup:

Are you trying to prove his point?

Cito Pelon
03-03-2010, 04:50 PM
Agreeableness: low. Your avatar might indicate that this is a trend with you. If so, you are prone to lower levels of empathy as well as fewer instances of joy. Your version of joy is to feel content, and are sad more often than you are angry.

You could also be low in extraversion and have a tendency to withdraw from others.. You are also likely to have a higher level of neuroticism than most.

But don't worry, with the new health care bill that Obama is George-W.-Bushing through you will probably be able to afford a good psychiatrist.

:thumbsup:

That was pretty good. And finished it with a political reference. LOL

OOJack
03-03-2010, 06:12 PM
Biological Psychology and Clinical Psychology disagree with you.

you mean based off their "theories" ?!? when they pull from the 6+ billion people stat pool for their final conclusions, as opposed to assumptive reasoning based on subsets, then we can talk

Cito Pelon
03-03-2010, 06:34 PM
you mean based off their "theories" ?!? when they pull from the 6+ billion people stat pool for their final conclusions, as opposed to assumptive reasoning based on subsets, then we can talk

Psychology is all about theory. Until one has a theorem to control the nut cases.

Arkie
03-03-2010, 07:03 PM
http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/gpr/7/2/images/gpr_7_2_150_fig1a.gif

OABB
03-03-2010, 07:33 PM
Agreeableness: low. Your avatar might indicate that this is a trend with you. If so, you are prone to lower levels of empathy as well as fewer instances of joy. Your version of joy is to feel content, and are sad more often than you are angry.

You could also be low in extraversion and have a tendency to withdraw from others.. You are also likely to have a higher level of neuroticism than most.

But don't worry, with the new health care bill that Obama is George-W.-Bushing through you will probably be able to afford a good psychiatrist.

:thumbsup:
Wow. You psychoanalyzed me and my avatar by copying and pasting. You must be a psych. By the way you are way off. I feel joy. Although it comes from arguing against stupidity.

Requiem
03-03-2010, 07:43 PM
Those are my exact double majors. Very cool Sir. Hope you are enjoying your studies. I wrap up undergrad this fall.

Psychology is a nice side discipline to add to your knowledge in those courses. I never went that route, but I know many who have and it certainly helps. An understanding of psychology will be extremely beneficial as you go on in Anthropology and Political Science and deal with a lot of big theories. (Like if you get to the "psychic unity of mankind" idea in anthropology, etc.) History would be apt as well, but in particular I would encourage you to delve into as many philosophy courses as possible.

They will teach you how to think, approach things differently, and appreciate differences amongst ourselves that happen for a variety of reasons. It'll also show cycles of human thought and processes through time, and if you're interested, you will always be able to make inferences based on the information you know.

As a POLS/ANTH double major, you are already committed to knowing a lot about people and are obviously interested in humanity. The classes you take will be practical for you in regards to real life knowledge and how to approach instances outside the workforce, but you have two majors which regardless of what people might think of them give you a wealth of opportunity, especially if you are into higher education down the road.

I'm not sure what year you are or where you go, but enjoy the ride. I can't imagine doing college over without picking up Anthropology as my second major. I learned a lot about myself and especially about others, which I think will help me a lot in the long run. FWIW, I personally had my best experiences in college through those professors, especially the Anthropology ones because you know they care about humanity and what they do for a living. Great people to look up to, they really care about students.

Cito Pelon
03-03-2010, 08:06 PM
Those are my exact double majors. Very cool Sir. Hope you are enjoying your studies. I wrap up undergrad this fall.

Psychology is a nice side discipline to add to your knowledge in those courses. I never went that route, but I know many who have and it certainly helps. An understanding of psychology will be extremely beneficial as you go on in Anthropology and Political Science and deal with a lot of big theories. (Like if you get to the "psychic unity of mankind" idea in anthropology, etc.) History would be apt as well, but in particular I would encourage you to delve into as many philosophy courses as possible.

They will teach you how to think, approach things differently, and appreciate differences amongst ourselves that happen for a variety of reasons. It'll also show cycles of human thought and processes through time, and if you're interested, you will always be able to make inferences based on the information you know.

As a POLS/ANTH double major, you are already committed to knowing a lot about people and are obviously interested in humanity. The classes you take will be practical for you in regards to real life knowledge and how to approach instances outside the workforce, but you have two majors which regardless of what people might think of them give you a wealth of opportunity, especially if you are into higher education down the road.

I'm not sure what year you are or where you go, but enjoy the ride. I can't imagine doing college over without picking up Anthropology as my second major. I learned a lot about myself and especially about others, which I think will help me a lot in the long run. FWIW, I personally had my best experiences in college through those professors, especially the Anthropology ones because you know they care about humanity and what they do for a living. Great people to look up to, they really care about students.

Agreed.

Archer81
03-03-2010, 08:07 PM
Those are my exact double majors. Very cool Sir. Hope you are enjoying your studies. I wrap up undergrad this fall.

Psychology is a nice side discipline to add to your knowledge in those courses. I never went that route, but I know many who have and it certainly helps. An understanding of psychology will be extremely beneficial as you go on in Anthropology and Political Science and deal with a lot of big theories. (Like if you get to the "psychic unity of mankind" idea in anthropology, etc.) History would be apt as well, but in particular I would encourage you to delve into as many philosophy courses as possible.

They will teach you how to think, approach things differently, and appreciate differences amongst ourselves that happen for a variety of reasons. It'll also show cycles of human thought and processes through time, and if you're interested, you will always be able to make inferences based on the information you know.

As a POLS/ANTH double major, you are already committed to knowing a lot about people and are obviously interested in humanity. The classes you take will be practical for you in regards to real life knowledge and how to approach instances outside the workforce, but you have two majors which regardless of what people might think of them give you a wealth of opportunity, especially if you are into higher education down the road.

I'm not sure what year you are or where you go, but enjoy the ride. I can't imagine doing college over without picking up Anthropology as my second major. I learned a lot about myself and especially about others, which I think will help me a lot in the long run. FWIW, I personally had my best experiences in college through those professors, especially the Anthropology ones because you know they care about humanity and what they do for a living. Great people to look up to, they really care about students.

I actually wanted to ask you some questions, but I will PM you those about the route you took to get to where you are now. I am in my 2nd semester of freshman year. If I take the same course load next year, I should have my associates and be ready to move up by Fall 2012. I've always loved history, and both my parents had all types of books on historical periods lying around.

My favorite professor Ive had now for two straight semesters. She teaches physical, cultural and religious anthropology, as well as abnormal psych. Im also taking Logic and Psych this semester with cultural anthro. Next semester I am going to take the two Polisci courses the school offers (community college...I take what I can). My advisors recommend alot of courses in Humanities, so they want me to load up on as many of those as I can. I actually love it. If they offered these classes in HS I would have probably gone more often.

:Broncos:

Requiem
03-03-2010, 08:29 PM
Feel free to PM me and ask whatever you would like. It is always nice seeing people following similar paths. I wish you the best and look forward to talking to you over PM!

Cito Pelon
03-03-2010, 09:55 PM
You guys are lucky you can ask me some questions. Same with baja, we won't be around forever, eh? We lived it, get your questions in now. There's only a few of us old-timers, get your questions in now.

SportinOne
03-04-2010, 12:15 AM
Wow. You psychoanalyzed me and my avatar by copying and pasting. You must be a psych. By the way you are way off. I feel joy. Although it comes from arguing against stupidity.

It was more of a joke than anything. So, no, I am not a "psych." However, i didn't have to copy and paste anything. Those are just fundamental personality trait characteristics and they are actually statistically valid and reliable for large groups of people. The thing is, you can establish all the norms and the correlations and what not but those statistics can only reliably speak for the group as a whole. Individuals could fall in line with those numbers or they could be completely different.

On a serious note, i wonder if anyone is doing studies on the the type of people who frequent message forums. A lot of people have absolutely no desire to ever post on one and for others it can become quite the addiction. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to come up with some key traits right off the bat. I am not suggesting that anyone attempt to understand individuals.. like Mock for instance... that's one stone that needs to be left unturned.

Br0nc0Buster
03-04-2010, 08:18 AM
It was more of a joke than anything. So, no, I am not a "psych." However, i didn't have to copy and paste anything. Those are just fundamental personality trait characteristics and they are actually statistically valid and reliable for large groups of people. The thing is, you can establish all the norms and the correlations and what not but those statistics can only reliably speak for the group as a whole. Individuals could fall in line with those numbers or they could be completely different.

On a serious note, i wonder if anyone is doing studies on the the type of people who frequent message forums. A lot of people have absolutely no desire to ever post on one and for others it can become quite the addiction. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to come up with some key traits right off the bat. I am not suggesting that anyone attempt to understand individuals.. like Mock for instance... that's one stone that needs to be left unturned.

Mock is an enigma wrapped in a conundrum

orinjkrush
03-04-2010, 08:30 AM
all "sciences" have a large degree of opinion.
cosmology, meteorology, biology, psychology...etc.etc....

what we "know" is often based apriori on what we "believe"
(what, continents move? WTF?......what, comets hit the earth and the moon? WTF? what, all life on earth from the same origin? WTF? what, people's behavior is predictable? WTF?)

the redeeming quality of the scientific approach is the ability to self-correct.
much better than other belief systems: e.g. religions, politics.

SportinOne
03-06-2010, 12:44 AM
all "sciences" have a large degree of opinion.
cosmology, meteorology, biology, psychology...etc.etc....

what we "know" is often based apriori on what we "believe"
(what, continents move? WTF?......what, comets hit the earth and the moon? WTF? what, all life on earth from the same origin? WTF? what, people's behavior is predictable? WTF?)

the redeeming quality of the scientific approach is the ability to self-correct.
much better than other belief systems: e.g. religions, politics.

good god that is one awful avatar! and yet i can't look away...

but yeah i agree. science, at its best, should always look to correct itself. after all, it is one giant, never ending puzzle.