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View Full Version : Interesting stats about Moreno and all our 2009 draft picks


BroncoMan4ever
02-26-2010, 06:49 PM
Link for the full article. the portion I found most interesting was about Moreno.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/2/26/1319841/answers-in-search-of-a-question?ref=yahoo

I know a lot of people were pretty down on Moreno and trying to deflect blame from our ****ty OL play onto him or Orton, but an interesting stat this article points out about Moreno, is that 64% of his total rushing yards for the season came after 1st contact. 603 of his total 947 rushing yards came after he was 1st hit.


the rest of the article goes more in depth and discusses the full draft class.

oubronco
02-26-2010, 06:50 PM
Fix the Lines and they will all look better

BroncoMan4ever
02-26-2010, 07:05 PM
Fix the Lines and they will all look better

I agree. i just find it interesting what his stats could have been like if he wasn't getting initial contact behind or at the LOS, and instead was receiving intial contact after even a pickup of 2 yards

BlaK-Argentina
02-26-2010, 07:15 PM
I bet this thread doesn't get more than 5 replies.

Archer81
02-26-2010, 07:19 PM
Clearly Moreno is a bust. Our resident experts have said as much.


:Broncos:

rastaman
02-26-2010, 07:20 PM
Link for the full article. the portion I found most interesting was about Moreno.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/2/26/1319841/answers-in-search-of-a-question?ref=yahoo

I know a lot of people were pretty down on Moreno and trying to deflect blame from our ****ty OL play onto him or Orton, but an interesting stat this article points out about Moreno, is that 64% of his total rushing yards for the season came after 1st contact. 603 of his total 947 rushing yards came after he was 1st hit.


the rest of the article goes more in depth and discusses the full draft class.

How can you say Denver had a F*@ked Up OL? After all the OL McDuffus inherited was built for zone blocking. Its not the OL's fault that McD tried to force the OL to turn into one-on-one power blocking OL. It was McD that screwed up the OL and then he threw the OL under the Bus in the Press and during press conferences.

Now Slick Ass McD will tell Bowlen and the fans its going to take two years to get his OL in place. Ya see, McD's ego tells him that everything has to be in his image. After all, had McD allowed the zone blocking OL to stay in place it would have reminded him of Shanahan's system.

Who knows, had McD allowed Dennison & Turner to execute the zone blocking scheme, Moreno would have been a candidate for rookie of the year and the Broncos wouldn't have had a 2-8 meltdown and made the playoffs! Moreno had the perfect intangibles to flourish in a zone blocking scheme, that requires a RB to make "one-read", "one-Cut", and "run-downhill".

Oh well its all behind us now. Lets all sit back and watch McD's power blocking running attack take shape over the next two years. I can't wait!:sunshine:

TonyR
02-26-2010, 07:21 PM
Last 4 games in particular he had nowhere to run. Seems like he was met in the backfield on almost every run.

rastaman
02-26-2010, 07:23 PM
I agree. i just find it interesting what his stats could have been like if he wasn't getting initial contact behind or at the LOS, and instead was receiving intial contact after even a pickup of 2 yards

So explain why McD did not allow Dennison and Turner to bring the full force of their stretch the LOS zone blocking schemes to bear? Do ya think Moreno could have found some running lanes to run through? I guess we will never know now.:approve:

houghtam
02-26-2010, 07:27 PM
Moreno had the perfect intangibles to flourish in a zone blocking scheme, that requires a RB to make "one-read", "one-Cut", and "run-downhill".

I think those are the biggest misnomers about the zone-blocking scheme. There aren't two many blocking schemes out there that require a back to make "two-cuts", or to "run-east/west". The beauty of the ZBS is not so much how it relates to the running back (we should know, ANYONE could have broken off 2k in our system), but rather how it relates to the O-line.

rastaman
02-26-2010, 07:28 PM
Last 4 games in particular he had nowhere to run. Seems like he was met in the backfield on almost every run.

Question I have over the last four games what running scheme was McD running? was it more of a NE hybrid power running attack or did he allow Dennison and Turner to unleash the zone blocking scheme.

Remember the OL McD inherited from Shanny was drafted and developed to execute the zone blocking scheme. Last years OL was ill-suited to execute a NE McD-Belicheat hybrid power running attack.

rastaman
02-26-2010, 07:40 PM
I think those are the biggest misnomers about the zone-blocking scheme. There aren't two many blocking schemes out there that require a back to make "two-cuts", or to "run-east/west". The beauty of the ZBS is not so much how it relates to the running back (we should know, ANYONE could have broken off 2k in our system), but rather how it relates to the O-line.

The basic concept of Denver's zone blocking scheme was based on the theory of "one-read", "one-Cut", and "run-downhill". If you recall when TD ran for 1500 plus, 1700 plus and 2008 yards in 3 consecutive seasons, the zone blocking scheme also allowed for the use of a lead blocking FB as well.

The lead blocking FB kept the penetrating Def. lineman off TD as well, thus allowing the running attack to be even more efficient. All these attributes were missing from McD's philosophy with the running attack.

Likewise, Moreno would have benefited from a lead blocking FB to take on the def. player that penetrated the LOS.

There is no doubt that McD squandered and mis-utilized the talent on last years Broncos offensive line.

eddie mac
02-26-2010, 07:41 PM
Rasta when did you think McD was going to implement his own offense then???

2010, 2011???

What would've been the point in that. He gave the existing line a shot at changing to his scheme. So far it has not worked out especially internally but there's no way in hell anyone should've expected McD to come in here and just run Shanahan's offense.

Had that been the vision, why the hell fire Shanahan in the first place.

McD's his own man, he isn't Mike Mk2 nor will he ever be. 2 completely different coaches with completely different philosophies on how to get things done and you know what he came away with the same record as Shanahan last year via implementing a new scheme, playing far harder opponents and with a downgrade at QB talentwise.

Give the man a chance to properly implement his own ideals.

broncosteven
02-26-2010, 07:42 PM
Link for the full article. the portion I found most interesting was about Moreno.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/2/26/1319841/answers-in-search-of-a-question?ref=yahoo

I know a lot of people were pretty down on Moreno and trying to deflect blame from our ****ty OL play onto him or Orton, but an interesting stat this article points out about Moreno, is that 64% of his total rushing yards for the season came after 1st contact. 603 of his total 947 rushing yards came after he was 1st hit.


the rest of the article goes more in depth and discusses the full draft class.

Buckhalter had a 5.4 yard avg and 642 yards on 120 carries, It would be interesting to see how may yards he got after 1st hit and how many times 1st contact was behind the LOS for him.

Knowshon had 3.8 yards on 247 carries (twice the amount of carries) and couldn't gain more than 947.

I would hope with that many carries he would be around 1200 yards next year.

To me it seemed a lot of time that Knowshon was slow to the hole or read the wrong one. I think a lot of the issues were with the inside power blocking being performed poorly.

Buck saw the hole much faster, made better decisions and exploded through it. If he was healty I am guessing he would have done some more damage.

I would also like to see Knowshon bust off some longer gains, his hig was a run of 36. He needs to put together more 20+ yard gains and bust off at least 1 long TD this year if he wants to be a game changer.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-26-2010, 07:47 PM
How can you say Denver had a F*@ked Up OL? After all the OL McDuffus inherited was built for zone blocking. Its not the OL's fault that McD tried to force the OL to turn into one-on-one power blocking OL. It was McD that screwed up the OL and then he threw the OL under the Bus in the Press and during press conferences.

Now Slick Ass McD will tell Bowlen and the fans its going to take two years to get his OL in place. Ya see, McD's ego tells him that everything has to be in his image. After all, had McD allowed the zone blocking OL to stay in place it would have reminded him of Shanahan's system.

Who knows, had McD allowed Dennison & Turner to execute the zone blocking scheme, Moreno would have been a candidate for rookie of the year and the Broncos wouldn't have had a 2-8 meltdown and made the playoffs! Moreno had the perfect intangibles to flourish in a zone blocking scheme, that requires a RB to make "one-read", "one-Cut", and "run-downhill".

Oh well its all behind us now. Lets all sit back and watch McD's power blocking running attack take shape over the next two years. I can't wait!:sunshine:

Was McDaniels hired to keep the status quo? Or to bring his own system in?

Your point is invalid.

http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/the_cat_is_pushing_a_watermelon_out_of_a_lake.jpg

Archer81
02-26-2010, 07:50 PM
Was McDaniels hired to keep the status quo? Or to bring his own system in?

Your point is invalid.

http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/the_cat_is_pushing_a_watermelon_out_of_a_lake.jpg


http://tinyurl.com/ychxgm9


:Broncos:

Dagmar
02-26-2010, 07:53 PM
Was McDaniels hired to keep the status quo? Or to bring his own system in?

Your point is invalid.

http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/the_cat_is_pushing_a_watermelon_out_of_a_lake.jpg

http://www.upmyownass.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/my-hair-is-a-bird-argument-invalid-386x449.jpg

gyldenlove
02-26-2010, 07:54 PM
I think those are the biggest misnomers about the zone-blocking scheme. There aren't two many blocking schemes out there that require a back to make "two-cuts", or to "run-east/west". The beauty of the ZBS is not so much how it relates to the running back (we should know, ANYONE could have broken off 2k in our system), but rather how it relates to the O-line.

That is true, but there are several no-cut run schemes - in fact most power or gap assignment run schemes do not use cuts on anything other than misdirection and broken plays. The same for reads, most power runs do not require reads at all since the RB has a gap he is supposed to hit and only if that gap is clearly not open does he have to do anything.

There are two different meanings to downhill running, the original definition I believe is a running style where the runner leans forward which lowers the center of gravity and gives more leverage when taking on tacklers. Some people do however use it to desribe north-south running, which is the sense it is used in for zone blocking. In a gap assignment run the runner will often be running at an angle to the yard lines when he reaches the gap since that is the quickest way to get there and when trying to open up a run lane time is essential. In zone blocking since the gap isn't designed to be open the runner doesn't have to run the shortest path to get there, and can thus focus on running so he gains as many yards as possible which is done by running directly down field, this only applies however once the cut has been made.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-26-2010, 07:54 PM
http://www.upmyownass.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/my-hair-is-a-bird-argument-invalid-386x449.jpg

Ha! ROFL! LOL

rastaman
02-26-2010, 07:55 PM
Rasta when did you think McD was going to implement his own offense then???

2010, 2011???

What would've been the point in that. He gave the existing line a shot at changing to his scheme. So far it has not worked out especially internally but there's no way in hell anyone should've expected McD to come in here and just run Shanahan's offense.

Had that been the vision, why the hell fire Shanahan in the first place.

McD's his own man, he isn't Mike Mk2 nor will he ever be. 2 completely different coaches with completely different philosophies on how to get things done and you know what he came away with the same record as Shanahan last year via implementing a new scheme, playing far harder opponents and with a downgrade at QB talentwise.

Give the man a chance to properly implement his own ideals.

Why change what was working is my question. You don't make changes "Just B/c You Can". You make changes b/c something is broken or isn't working. If you make changes b/c you can or b/c you want to....all that says is that you have a big ego. A smart HC keeps whats working while also adding his own wrinkles to make the process even more efficient.

Instead what Denver got in the end was its 4th consecutive year of missing the playoffs and an offense that declined from the previous year; all b/c the HC wanted to implement a system he had yet drafted/developed/signed the right players to execute.

Archer81
02-26-2010, 07:55 PM
http://www.upmyownass.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/my-hair-is-a-bird-argument-invalid-386x449.jpg

Uh oh...look what got started...

http://tinyurl.com/n58bd6


:Broncos:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-26-2010, 07:57 PM
Why change what was working is my question. You don't make changes "Just B/c You Can". You make changes b/c something is broken or isn't working. If you make changes b/c you can or b/c you want to....all that says is that you have a big ego. A smart HC keeps whats working while also adding his own wrinkles to make the process even more efficient.

Instead what Denver got in the end was its 4th consecutive year of missing the playoffs and an offense that declined from the previous year; all b/c the HC wanted to implement a system he had yet drafted/developed/signed the right players to execute.

Excuse me, Rasta?

Can you answer the question please?

Was McDaniels hired to run Mike Shanahan's system, or to bring in a new system?

An honest answer will suffice.

Archer81
02-26-2010, 07:58 PM
Excuse me, Rasta?

Can you answer the question please?

Was McDaniels hired to run Mike Shanahan's system, or to bring in a new system?

An honest answer will suffice.


You will be waiting a long damn time.


:Broncos:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-26-2010, 07:59 PM
You will be waiting a long damn time.


:Broncos:

I never said I'd wait for it.

rastaman
02-26-2010, 08:01 PM
[QUOTE=ThatOneDenverMooseGuy;2761412]Was McDaniels hired to keep the status quo? Or to bring his own system in?

Your point is invalid.

Meh! McD was brought in to WIN and return the Broncos to the playoffs! PERIOD!

McD wasn't brought here to Denver to prove his ego comes first. Simply put, a smart none egotistical head coach would have used a scheme that meets the talent and player personnel he has on hand.

Remember.....its a players league not a coaches league.

Archer81
02-26-2010, 08:02 PM
I never said I'd wait for it.


Very true. Point still stands. Waiting for rasta to make an honest assessment is like waiting for the moon to turn purple and do a jig.


:Broncos:

rastaman
02-26-2010, 08:03 PM
Excuse me, Rasta?

Can you answer the question please?

Was McDaniels hired to run Mike Shanahan's system, or to bring in a new system?

An honest answer will suffice.

McD was brought in to WIN and return the Broncos to the playoffs! PERIOD!

McD wasn't brought here to Denver to prove his ego comes first. Simply put, a smart none egotistical head coach would have used a scheme that meets the talent and player personnel he has on hand.

Remember.....its a players league not a coaches league.

Dagmar
02-26-2010, 08:05 PM
Uh oh...look what got started...

http://tinyurl.com/n58bd6


:Broncos:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HuegrK2s-SA/SqASw0Taj8I/AAAAAAAABiA/OaZU5GFU0wg/s400/argument_is_invalid.jpg

Archer81
02-26-2010, 08:07 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HuegrK2s-SA/SqASw0Taj8I/AAAAAAAABiA/OaZU5GFU0wg/s400/argument_is_invalid.jpg


http://tinyurl.com/ybqskpu


:Broncos:

Dagmar
02-26-2010, 08:11 PM
http://roflrazzi.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/129053729091391141.jpg

rastaman
02-26-2010, 08:12 PM
Very true. Point still stands. Waiting for rasta to make an honest assessment is like waiting for the moon to turn purple and do a jig.


:Broncos:

Don't worry Sirhcyenneck81....live long enough and McD will reveal himself.


http://lennyfromindy.mywnde.com/files/2009/08/joshmcdevil.jpg

rastaman
02-26-2010, 08:19 PM
http://media.avclub.com/images/articles/article/31195/jmac_jpg_595x325_crop_upscale_q85.jpg

Hey Dagmar, Schrchnney81, so What I led the Broncos to a 2-8 finish after starting out 6-0! You 3 Knuckle Heads just deal with it and theres more disappointment coming from me. JUST GIVE ME A CHANCE!.....SUCKERS.

Archer81
02-26-2010, 08:19 PM
Don't worry Sirhcyenneck81....live long enough and McD will reveal himself.


http://lennyfromindy.mywnde.com/files/2009/08/joshmcdevil.jpg


http://tinyurl.com/yl7ylpq


:Broncos:

Archer81
02-26-2010, 08:21 PM
http://media.avclub.com/images/articles/article/31195/jmac_jpg_595x325_crop_upscale_q85.jpg

Hey Dagmar, Schrchnney81, so What I led the Broncos to a 2-8 finish after starting out 6-0! You 3 Knuckle Heads just deal with it and theres more disappointment coming from me. JUST GIVE ME A CHANCE!.....SUCKERS.


Who?

You only listed 2 names...


:Broncos:

Dagmar
02-26-2010, 08:24 PM
Who?

You only listed 2 names...


:Broncos:

what?

He listed ONE.

One was me and the other was Schrchnney81!

rastaman
02-26-2010, 08:24 PM
http://tinyurl.com/ybqskpu


:Broncos:



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XFWmNyyPSTQ/SwrMNVgcTXI/AAAAAAAAAmM/g2wxJCMbMTo/s400/bill+belichick+josh+mcdaniels.jpg

Dagmar
02-26-2010, 08:24 PM
http://media.avclub.com/images/articles/article/31195/jmac_jpg_595x325_crop_upscale_q85.jpg

Hey Dagmar, Schrchnney81, so What I led the Broncos to a 2-8 finish after starting out 6-0! You 3 Knuckle Heads just deal with it and theres more disappointment coming from me. JUST GIVE ME A CHANCE!.....SUCKERS.

http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/img/2009/cute-stupid.jpg

Archer81
02-26-2010, 08:26 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XFWmNyyPSTQ/SwrMNVgcTXI/AAAAAAAAAmM/g2wxJCMbMTo/s400/bill+belichick+josh+mcdaniels.jpg


http://tinyurl.com/ybjwfkb


:Broncos:

Archer81
02-26-2010, 08:28 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XFWmNyyPSTQ/SwrMNVgcTXI/AAAAAAAAAmM/g2wxJCMbMTo/s400/bill+belichick+josh+mcdaniels.jpg


http://tinyurl.com/ycx2m8w


:Broncos:

rastaman
02-26-2010, 08:30 PM
http://tinyurl.com/ycx2m8w


:Broncos:



IN MCD WE TRUST-----RIGHT!: :sunshine:


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XFWmNyyPSTQ/SwrHpIGWE3I/AAAAAAAAAl8/GfWloLE5KPQ/s400/josh+mcdaniels+sucks.jpg

KevinJames
02-26-2010, 08:33 PM
Buckhalter had a 5.4 yard avg and 642 yards on 120 carries, It would be interesting to see how may yards he got after 1st hit and how many times 1st contact was behind the LOS for him.

Knowshon had 3.8 yards on 247 carries (twice the amount of carries) and couldn't gain more than 947.

I would hope with that many carries he would be around 1200 yards next year.

To me it seemed a lot of time that Knowshon was slow to the hole or read the wrong one. I think a lot of the issues were with the inside power blocking being performed poorly.

Buck saw the hole much faster, made better decisions and exploded through it. If he was healty I am guessing he would have done some more damage.

I would also like to see Knowshon bust off some longer gains, his hig was a run of 36. He needs to put together more 20+ yard gains and bust off at least 1 long TD this year if he wants to be a game changer.

or Buckhalter had more longer runs and fewer carriers thus his average YPC his higher.

Moreno got all the tough carries and obvious run down carries also most of the goal line work so hes going to be stuffed more.

Of course Buckhalter is going to have a better YPC, that has nothing to do him seeing the whole faster.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-26-2010, 08:34 PM
Sorry Pastagirl. You're wrong.

McDaniels was hired to bring his systems and implement them, not to run someone else's system. it has less to do with ego and more to do with his job description, but them you'd have to understand football to get that.

I won't hold my breath.

rastaman
02-26-2010, 08:34 PM
http://tinyurl.com/ybjwfkb


:Broncos:


I HATE PEOPLE....I WAS GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY IN THE NFL....I WASN'T GIVEN A CHANCE BECAUSE OF MY HEIGHT.....I WAS TOO TALL! ;D


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/peter_king/10/25/mmqb/josh%20mcdaniels.jpg

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-26-2010, 08:35 PM
I HATE PEOPLE....I WAS GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY IN THE NFL....I WASN'T GIVEN A CHANCE BECAUSE OF MY HEIGHT.....I WAS TOO TALL! ;D


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/peter_king/10/25/mmqb/josh%20mcdaniels.jpg

Just when I start to wonder why I had you on ignore to begin with... you give me a whole new reason.

You're a child.

Archer81
02-26-2010, 08:37 PM
IN MCD WE TRUST-----RIGHT!: :sunshine:


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XFWmNyyPSTQ/SwrHpIGWE3I/AAAAAAAAAl8/GfWloLE5KPQ/s400/josh+mcdaniels+sucks.jpg



http://tinyurl.com/ybpuyub
Who is Barack Obama for $500 Alex...

:Broncos:

rastaman
02-26-2010, 08:41 PM
Sorry Pastagirl. You're wrong.

McDaniels was hired to bring his systems and implement them, not to run someone else's system. it has less to do with ego and more to do with his job description, but them you'd have to understand football to get that.

I won't hold my breath.

Hey Hoe-Biscuit......Bowlen hired McDisaster to WIN and by any means necessary!

Bowlen didn't say "Hey McDummy" all I care about is your unproven system! Josh has an ego problem plain and simple and Bowlen is starting to find this out the hard way.

Do you for a moment believe that Bowlen would called a meeting with McD complaining about how successful Shanny's zone blocking scheme is ..... and to stop using it immediately-----I HIRED YOU TO USE YOUR OWN SYSTEM EVEN IF IT DOESN'T WORK!

Come on Dude! Get real. A smart experienced coached would not have forced his system on the team unless he had the talent and personnel to execute his system.

montrose
02-26-2010, 08:43 PM
I'm really excited to see a healthy Moreno with a (hopefully) better OL in a system better suited to his skills.

Archer81
02-26-2010, 08:44 PM
I'm really excited to see a healthy Moreno with a (hopefully) better OL in a system better suited to his skills.


Exactly. Should be interesting to watch develop.


:Broncos:

rastaman
02-26-2010, 08:45 PM
http://tinyurl.com/ybpuyub
Who is Barack Obama for $500 Alex...

:Broncos:

GOD I MISS THE PATRIOTS.....I WONDER IF BELECHEET WILL TAKE ME BACK IN 2011?

http://cdn.faniq.com/images/blog/8d925890d3c357a0524f89c403b4194c.jpg

rastaman
02-26-2010, 08:46 PM
Just when I start to wonder why I had you on ignore to begin with... you give me a whole new reason.

You're a child.

You overly sensitive "Little Hoe".....where's your sense of humor!:thumbs:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-26-2010, 08:46 PM
Hey Hoe-Biscuit......Bowlen hired McDisaster to WIN and by any means necessary!

Bowlen didn't say "Hey McDummy" all I care about is your unproven system! Josh has an ego problem plain and simple and Bowlen is starting to find this out the hard way.

Do you for a moment believe that Bowlen would called a meeting with McD complaining about how successful Shanny's zone blocking scheme is ..... and to stop using it immediately-----I HIRED YOU TO USE YOUR OWN SYSTEM EVEN IF IT DOESN'T WORK!

Come on Dude! Get real. A smart experienced coached would not have forced his system on the team unless he had the talent and personnel to execute his system.

You can't honestly be this retarded.

If we were going to keep the same schemes in place, why even fire Shanahan?

If Bowlen didn't want a change in culture and play calling, why did he say that's what he was after when he hired McDaniels?

You are such a flaming retard, it's honestly hard to believe. I mean, you take yourself seriously, even when everyone here is constantly laughing at the constant moron-a-thon that has become the Rastaman brand.

Amazing.

rastaman
02-26-2010, 08:47 PM
Exactly. Should be interesting to watch develop.


:Broncos:


Yep! What else does one have to do over the next two years while McD's OL develops.:peace:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-26-2010, 08:48 PM
You overly sensitive "Little Hoe".....where's your sense of humor!:thumbs:

Oh, so you WERE joking. I knew I shouldn't take your retarded takes seriously.

Thanks for clearing that up.

BTW: When you start calling names it just makes it more and more obvious that I've destroyed every single one of your arguments, and you have nothing left.

You're a slightly more-coherent watermock. Congrats.

rastaman
02-26-2010, 08:50 PM
Oh, so you WERE joking. I knew I shouldn't take your retarded takes seriously.

Thanks for clearing that up.

BTW: When you start calling names it just makes it more and more obvious that I've destroyed every single one of your arguments, and you have nothing left.

You're a slightly more-coherent watermock. Congrats.

OH CRY ME A RIVER WHY DON'TCHA!

http://users.chariot.net.au/~misterx/steve/images/cry_me_a_river.jpg

Yeah.....your the winner! There do you feel better now "MooseGuy"!Hilarious!

Hamrob
02-26-2010, 08:51 PM
Since when has New England ever ran the ball worth a ****?

Do you think that the reason that Moreno got 60+% of his yards after contact because he's slow as hell?

Archer81
02-26-2010, 08:53 PM
Yep! What else does one have to do over the next two years while McD's OL develops.:peace:


http://tinyurl.com/m847pb


:Broncos:

gyldenlove
02-26-2010, 08:56 PM
Can't you guys just whip your dicks and have that pissing contest once and for all, this **** is getting seriously boring, I don't mind a bit of good natured ineptitude but this is getting beyond stupid and dangerously close to idiotic.

Archer81
02-26-2010, 08:57 PM
Since when has New England ever ran the ball worth a ****?

Do you think that the reason that Moreno got 60+% of his yards after contact because he's slow as hell?


NE Patriots 2007: 451 att, 1849 yds, 4.1 ypc 17 tds.
NE Patriots 2008: 513 att, 2278 yds, 4.4 ypc 21 tds.
Den Broncos 2009: 440 att, 1836 yds, 4.2 ypc, 9 tds.

Could be the guys up front cant block consistently. Or in the RZ, as the TD numbers indicate.

:Broncos:

strafen
02-26-2010, 09:02 PM
Can't you guys just whip your ***** and have that pissing contest once and for all, this **** is getting seriously boring, I don't mind a bit of good natured ineptitude but this is getting beyond stupid and dangerously close to idiotic.

That's what happen when you have morons trolling this board with their childish crap. They continue to pollute threads when they feel they have not enough to make a good debate against it
That's all they do. They bring zero value to this board, yet they think they're in a special class because they feel if they shoot down posters they don't agree with they're showing how true fans they really are.
Stupidity runs rampant around here...

rastaman
02-26-2010, 09:12 PM
http://tinyurl.com/m847pb


:Broncos:

HEY DUMB ASS.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_JVVaXmiE24g/RmwzHVAkE6I/AAAAAAAABuI/48kVVRMLclw/s400/bushbeer_2.jpg

Dagmar
02-26-2010, 09:19 PM
That's what happen when you have morons trolling this board with their childish crap. They continue to pollute threads when they feel they have not enough to make a good debate against it
That's all they do. They bring zero value to this board, yet they think they're in a special class because they feel if they shoot down posters they don't agree with they're showing how true fans they really are.
Stupidity runs rampant around here...

http://icanhascheezburger.wordpress.com/files/2008/04/funny-pictures-superior-cat-on-horse.jpg

Cool Breeze
02-26-2010, 09:20 PM
I bet this thread doesn't get more than 5 replies.

You were so close...

strafen
02-26-2010, 09:21 PM
You were so close...Yup, no more than 5 decent replies before it becomes a circus...

Archer81
02-26-2010, 09:24 PM
That's what happen when you have morons trolling this board with their childish crap. They continue to pollute threads when they feel they have not enough to make a good debate against it
That's all they do. They bring zero value to this board, yet they think they're in a special class because they feel if they shoot down posters they don't agree with they're showing how true fans they really are.
Stupidity runs rampant around here...


http://tinyurl.com/ylygsy9


:Broncos:

Archer81
02-26-2010, 09:26 PM
HEY DUMB ASS.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_JVVaXmiE24g/RmwzHVAkE6I/AAAAAAAABuI/48kVVRMLclw/s400/bushbeer_2.jpg


You know what they say about glass houses, Rasta.


http://tinyurl.com/yl8yy94


:Broncos:

BroncoMan4ever
02-26-2010, 09:29 PM
How can you say Denver had a F*@ked Up OL? After all the OL McDuffus inherited was built for zone blocking. Its not the OL's fault that McD tried to force the OL to turn into one-on-one power blocking OL. It was McD that screwed up the OL and then he threw the OL under the Bus in the Press and during press conferences.

Now Slick Ass McD will tell Bowlen and the fans its going to take two years to get his OL in place. Ya see, McD's ego tells him that everything has to be in his image. After all, had McD allowed the zone blocking OL to stay in place it would have reminded him of Shanahan's system.

Who knows, had McD allowed Dennison & Turner to execute the zone blocking scheme, Moreno would have been a candidate for rookie of the year and the Broncos wouldn't have had a 2-8 meltdown and made the playoffs! Moreno had the perfect intangibles to flourish in a zone blocking scheme, that requires a RB to make "one-read", "one-Cut", and "run-downhill".

Oh well its all behind us now. Lets all sit back and watch McD's power blocking running attack take shape over the next two years. I can't wait!:sunshine:

Moreno isn't a guy like Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, or any of the other guys who were brought in specifically for the ZBS. he can play in and flourish in any running system, and in fact his best fit would be in a straight ahead running style like SD has.

also, it isn't McDaniels fault that Hamilton and Weigman both had age catch up on them and turn into revolving doors for defenders to rush through

also, has anyone heard 1 excuse from McDaniels in his year in Denver? he has not made a single excuse, and the fact that he was capable of turning Shanahan's turd of a defense into something resembling a decent NFL defense in a single offseason, has me completely in his corner that he can replace 2 guys on the OL and make it formidable again. Clady, Harris and Kuper all have the necessary strength, size, youth, and ability to play in a power blocking scheme

also, on a side note for all those so butt hurt about the fact that the ZBS is gone. NO TEAM SINCE 1998 WHEN DENVER WON THE SUPER BOWL RUNNING THE ZBS, NO TEAM THAT RUNS THAT RUNNING SCHEME HAS REACHED OR WON A SUPER BOWL SINCE.

rastaman
02-26-2010, 09:31 PM
You know what they say about glass houses, Rasta.


http://tinyurl.com/yl8yy94


:Broncos:


http://www.angehr.com/images/bush-cocaine.jpg

BroncoMan4ever
02-26-2010, 09:35 PM
So explain why McD did not allow Dennison and Turner to bring the full force of their stretch the LOS zone blocking schemes to bear? Do ya think Moreno could have found some running lanes to run through? I guess we will never know now.:approve:

explain something to me. were you expecting a new HC to come in and run the team exactly like Shanahan? run the same style of offense, basically just make a clone of what Mike did in Denver? because every coach will build a team in their vision, not the vision of the guy he replaced.

when were you expecting him to put in his offense? in 2010? 2011? or was he in your eyes expected to keep everything the same?

wake up and grow a brain, he is an NFL coach building the team his way, in the style he believes will have most success with. regardless of how Mike built that offense, it wasn't getting the job done.

if Bowlen wanted things to remain the same, he never would have fired Shanahan

Archer81
02-26-2010, 09:35 PM
http://www.angehr.com/images/bush-cocaine.jpg



http://tinyurl.com/2uvky3


:Broncos:

BroncoMan4ever
02-26-2010, 09:41 PM
McD was brought in to WIN and return the Broncos to the playoffs! PERIOD!

McD wasn't brought here to Denver to prove his ego comes first. Simply put, a smart none egotistical head coach would have used a scheme that meets the talent and player personnel he has on hand.

Remember.....its a players league not a coaches league.

McD was brought here to change the way things were being run with the team and to instill some discipline into the players and rebuild a team that Mike left in shambles. once his rebuild was done, then his job is to get to the playoffs

name 1 NFL head coach in this league that has had success and who isn't an arrogant egotistical prick.

and you're back to the argument that he needs to run his predecessors offense because of the players that were there. he was brought in to make the team in his style, not to copy Shanahan's. when were you expecting him to make this his team with his style of play?

Inkana7
02-26-2010, 09:48 PM
That's what happen when you have morons trolling this board with their childish crap. They continue to pollute threads when they feel they have not enough to make a good debate against it
That's all they do. They bring zero value to this board, yet they think they're in a special class because they feel if they shoot down posters they don't agree with they're showing how true fans they really are.
Stupidity runs rampant around here...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Vy2Puo54Ko0/SoJgRccbK4I/AAAAAAAAGWQ/PBapiDwS4kQ/s400/irony.jpg

strafen
02-26-2010, 09:52 PM
name 1 NFL head coach in this league that has had success and who isn't an arrogant egotistical prick.

Lovie Smith, Norv Turner, Wade Phillips, Gary Kubiak, Jeff Fisher...
Oops! wrong bunch ;D

Flex Gunmetal
02-26-2010, 09:59 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Vy2Puo54Ko0/SoJgRccbK4I/AAAAAAAAGWQ/PBapiDwS4kQ/s400/irony.jpg

No kidding.

Dagmar
02-26-2010, 10:05 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Vy2Puo54Ko0/SoJgRccbK4I/AAAAAAAAGWQ/PBapiDwS4kQ/s400/irony.jpg

Where would we start in threads drag?

http://i49.tinypic.com/2z6a36a.png

http://i47.tinypic.com/2chb5sw.png

http://i49.tinypic.com/eiqer6.png

BroncoMan4ever
02-26-2010, 10:07 PM
Lovie Smith, Norv Turner, Wade Phillips, Gary Kubiak, Jeff Fisher...
Oops! wrong bunch ;D

i don't recall a lot of success coming from Smith, Turner, Phillips or Fisher sure they have won a lot of games but i don't recall them winning any super bowls.

strafen
02-26-2010, 10:11 PM
i don't recall a lot of success coming from Smith, Turner, Phillips or Fisher sure they have won a lot of games but i don't recall them winning any super bowls.That was a joke, man :~ohyah!:

strafen
02-26-2010, 10:13 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Vy2Puo54Ko0/SoJgRccbK4I/AAAAAAAAGWQ/PBapiDwS4kQ/s400/irony.jpgOh, my number one fan.
How's going big guy?! :wave:

And thanks for another worthless contribution. Not that we needed yet another fight here, did we?

strafen
02-26-2010, 10:15 PM
No kidding.

My number 2 fan.
How's going kiddo?! :welcome:

And thanks for another worthless contribution. Not that we needed yet another fight here, did we?

KipCorrington25
02-26-2010, 10:25 PM
Moreno seems to run hard which is great but it doesn't overcome the fumbles and the pure lack of speed... not for the 12th pick in the draft... and he's way undersized to make it as a power back.

strafen
02-26-2010, 10:28 PM
Moreno seems to run hard which is great but it doesn't overcome the fumbles and the pure lack of speed... not for the 12th pick in the draft... and he's way undersized to make it as a power back.

The only thing you hope is that he would produce better with the change of scheme (PBS)

Dagmar
02-26-2010, 10:32 PM
Moreno seems to run hard which is great but it doesn't overcome the fumbles and the pure lack of speed... not for the 12th pick in the draft... and he's way undersized to make it as a power back.

2 fumbles in 247 rushes?

he fumbles twice as a reciever aswell I know.

~Crash~
02-26-2010, 11:49 PM
Very true. Point still stands. Waiting for rasta to make an honest assessment is like waiting for the moon to turn purple and do a jig.


:Broncos:

oh and like you guys are any better neither of you are right.

Doggcow
02-26-2010, 11:53 PM
2 fumbles in 247 rushes?

he fumbles twice as a reciever aswell I know.

1.4% of the time, he fumbles every time.

ROFL, the people on this board can be ridiculous.

Archer81
02-26-2010, 11:57 PM
oh and like you guys are any better neither of you are right.


Well...

1. I am better than Rasta in almost every way.

2. I am right, while Rasta merely thinks he is.

This help?

:kiss:

:Broncos:

Baba Booey
02-26-2010, 11:58 PM
2 fat n slow lulz

BroncoMan4ever
02-27-2010, 02:22 AM
1.4% of the time, he fumbles every time.

ROFL, the people on this board can be ridiculous.

weren't all his fumbles during the 1st few weeks of the season while he was still getting used to the speed and strength difference between the college ranks and the NFL?

also, he never fumbled in college, so in my eyes he is pretty secure with the ball.

Br0nc0Buster
02-27-2010, 11:26 AM
Knowshon wasnt overly impressive to me, but he has the tools to be a very good player in the league
He was an excellent receiver in college and while he lacked elite breaking speed he was very shifty for a "power" back

Hopefully Olsen is as good as advertised and we can find a good run blocking center

eddie mac
02-27-2010, 06:53 PM
Why change what was working is my question. You don't make changes "Just B/c You Can". You make changes b/c something is broken or isn't working. If you make changes b/c you can or b/c you want to....all that says is that you have a big ego. A smart HC keeps whats working while also adding his own wrinkles to make the process even more efficient.

Instead what Denver got in the end was its 4th consecutive year of missing the playoffs and an offense that declined from the previous year; all b/c the HC wanted to implement a system he had yet drafted/developed/signed the right players to execute.

Shouldn't that question be for Pat Bowlen???

Obviously Pat wasn't happy with the way things were going and despite what people thought of our offense in 2008, we still couldn't put the ball in the endzone often enough. Cutler and his cast (despite a **** defense) still had plenty of opportunities down that 3-4 game stretch to get that all important win, thus giving us a playoff berth.

They didn't get it done and however promising those skill players were they were not doing enough, whether it was down to coaching or whatever.

McDaniels gave all those guys an opportunity last year from Day1. Some got their heads down and worked hard, others bitched and gurned and didn't produce.

The offense from 2008/scheme or whatever was overrated because it looked good on the yardage charts but at the end of the day the horrible performances by that unit in games against Oak, Miami and Buffalo at home and at Carolina, New England and Kansas City cost this team just as much as the porous defense did.

Dedhed
02-27-2010, 07:19 PM
Why change what was working is my question. You don't make changes "Just B/c You Can". You make changes b/c something is broken or isn't working. If you make changes b/c you can or b/c you want to....all that says is that you have a big ego. A smart HC keeps whats working while also adding his own wrinkles to make the process even more efficient.

Instead what Denver got in the end was its 4th consecutive year of missing the playoffs and an offense that declined from the previous year; all b/c the HC wanted to implement a system he had yet drafted/developed/signed the right players to execute.

4TH CONSECUTIVE YEAR was the key part of that post. 8-8 and no playoffs was working for you with Shanny?

Are you really suggesting that McDaniels should have run Shanahan's system until he had all the players he needed. B/c that would be, perhaps, the dumbest thing you've ever said, and that's quite an accomplishment.

McDaniels equaled Shanahan with unsuited personnel as a 1st year coach. I think there's some upside there.

rastaman
02-27-2010, 09:44 PM
4TH CONSECUTIVE YEAR was the key part of that post. 8-8 and no playoffs was working for you with Shanny?

Are you really suggesting that McDaniels should have run Shanahan's system until he had all the players he needed. B/c that would be, perhaps, the dumbest thing you've ever said, and that's quite an accomplishment.

McDaniels equaled Shanahan with unsuited personnel as a 1st year coach. I think there's some upside there.

The point you're missing here was that McD should have utilized the best schemes-execution that worked best and most efficiently with the player personnel he had on hand for the 2009 season. Then gradually, every draft and FA season McD could have brought in players i.e. OL that were best suited to run his power blocking running attack.

You don't blow up the entire blocking scheme the first year....just b/c you can. The OL McD in herited wasn't chopped liver. McD's ego and power trip are why the Broncos OL did not establish a consistent attack last season.

We don't know how Moreno would have performed running behind an OL that stretched the LOS and accompanied with running behind a lead blocking FB that could have taken on the first tackler that preached the LOS. Who knows, had McD kept the zone blocking scheme with a lead blocking FB, Moreno rushes for over 1,200 yards, is in contention for Rookie of the year, and the Broncos make the playoffs and go 12-4 or 11-5 after starting out
6-0.

McD has 4-5 years to fully implement his system and to get the right personnel to execute his system.....whats the rush?

rastaman
02-27-2010, 09:53 PM
Shouldn't that question be for Pat Bowlen???

Obviously Pat wasn't happy with the way things were going and despite what people thought of our offense in 2008, we still couldn't put the ball in the endzone often enough. Cutler and his cast (despite a **** defense) still had plenty of opportunities down that 3-4 game stretch to get that all important win, thus giving us a playoff berth.

They didn't get it done and however promising those skill players were they were not doing enough, whether it was down to coaching or whatever.

McDaniels gave all those guys an opportunity last year from Day1. Some got their heads down and worked hard, others b****ed and gurned and didn't produce.

The offense from 2008/scheme or whatever was overrated because it looked good on the yardage charts but at the end of the day the horrible performances by that unit in games against Oak, Miami and Buffalo at home and at Carolina, New England and Kansas City cost this team just as much as the porous defense did.

So what are you saying about the offense in 2009? Did the 2009 offense also play a vital role in posting a 2-8 melt down after starting out 6-0?

Another point, McD isn't the only person that has the last word or final say in the grand scheme of things. The players will let the HC know in so many different ways that he isn't god and will let their play or lack their of speak for itself to protest how McD is running the team. Players can either rebell or simple quit ON THE HC.

Remember when Marshall said...quote "McD has never played in the NFL!" Do you think Bmarsh was the only one feeling that way? The team quit on McD during the last 4 games of the season, and the 44-24 blow out against KC proved just that

TomServo
02-28-2010, 12:04 AM
i waited and waited for knoshow to impress me. i even said he would be a great back. but at seasons end i changed my mind. the cell phone guy tatem bell came out of his kiosk and had a longer run(37yards) than knoshow. mike anderson had a superior ypc average and he sat out a couple years going to war. and he had a run for 80 yards for a td as a rookie. but no, Knoshow had some lame a ss hand slap dance as he scored a td behind hillis.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-28-2010, 06:33 AM
i waited and waited for knoshow to impress me. i even said he would be a great back. but at seasons end i changed my mind. the cell phone guy tatem bell came out of his kiosk and had a longer run(37yards) than knoshow. mike anderson had a superior ypc average and he sat out a couple years going to war. and he had a run for 80 yards for a td as a rookie. but no, Knoshow had some lame a ss hand slap dance as he scored a td behind hillis.

Ummmmmmm, when did Mike Anderson "go to war"? He was in the marines. He never went to war, as far as I know.

I'll wait to judge knowshon until after he's had more than one year in the league. Because that's the sane thing to do.

azbroncfan
02-28-2010, 07:21 AM
The basic concept of Denver's zone blocking scheme was based on the theory of "one-read", "one-Cut", and "run-downhill". If you recall when TD ran for 1500 plus, 1700 plus and 2008 yards in 3 consecutive seasons, the zone blocking scheme also allowed for the use of a lead blocking FB as well.

The lead blocking FB kept the penetrating Def. lineman off TD as well, thus allowing the running attack to be even more efficient. All these attributes were missing from McD's philosophy with the running attack.

Likewise, Moreno would have benefited from a lead blocking FB to take on the def. player that penetrated the LOS.

There is no doubt that McD squandered and mis-utilized the talent on last years Broncos offensive line.

Our resident X's and O's expert chimes in. Comparing this OL to the superbowl OL's doesn't make you too smart. The superbowl OL was better at everyposition including FB. Sorry Hillis couldn't hold Howard G's jock strap at FB or TD's at the RB. I am ok sh$tcanning the good between the 20's zone scheme for a power running scheme. BTW rasta I love on the other post about MCD holding them back and not "TURN THE OL LOOSE!" comment.

rastaman
02-28-2010, 07:44 AM
Well...

1. I am better than Rasta in almost every way.

2. I am right, while Rasta merely thinks he is.

This help?

:kiss:

:Broncos:

I See Rasta Is In Your Head!......Boy What A Weak Minded Young PUNK you truly are.:wiggle:

rastaman
02-28-2010, 07:54 AM
Our resident X's and O's expert chimes in. Comparing this OL to the superbowl OL's doesn't make you too smart. The superbowl OL was better at everyposition including FB. Sorry Hillis couldn't hold Howard G's jock strap at FB or TD's at the RB. I am ok sh$tcanning the good between the 20's zone scheme for a power running scheme. BTW rasta I love on the other post about MCD holding them back and not "TURN THE OL LOOSE!" comment.

Okay AX...WHATEVER you say. We all know the type of OL drafted and developed by Shanny and in herited by McDaniels! Shanny left McD a zone blocking stretch the line of scrimage OL which could have been supplemented by a LEAD BLOCKING FULL BACK.

Point is, McD stubbornly tried to force a POWER Running attack on an OL ill-suited to execute such a system.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-28-2010, 07:57 AM
Okay AX...WHATEVER you say. We all know the type of OL drafted and developed by Shanny and in herited by McDaniels! Shanny left McD a zone blocking stretch the line of scrimage OL which could have been supplemented by a LEAD BLOCKING FULL BACK.

Point is, McD stubbornly tried to force a POWER Running attack on an OL ill-suited to execute such a system.

Again, rasta:

Was McDaniels hired to bring his systems to Denver? Or to continue the regime run by Mike Shanahan?

Just an honest answer will do. No spin. Try it.

WolfpackGuy
02-28-2010, 07:59 AM
Did/will the Broncos get their #12 pick's worth?

Moreno just doesn't look like a gamebreaker you should be getting at 12.

Especially when the team had more pressing needs than RB.

strafen
02-28-2010, 07:59 AM
Okay AX...WHATEVER you say. We all know the type of OL drafted and developed by Shanny and in herited by McDaniels! Shanny left McD a zone blocking stretch the line of scrimage OL which could have been supplemented by a LEAD BLOCKING FULL BACK.

Point is, McD stubbornly tried to force a POWER Running attack on an OL ill-suited to execute such a system.And that's what most people are referring as our OL having issues. That our OL needs to be ugraded.
Well, if they're switching system is obvious they need to change personnel, but don't blame the current players manning the Ol for that.
It's like trying to fit a square peg on a round hole...

Looking back, of all the immediate changes this team needed when McDaniels took over, the OL should've been at the top of his list. Yet, that's the only area where he made the least amount of changes, if any at all.
You figure with the guy having his own offensive system to install that building a tailor made OL for it would've been the right thing to do...

Dedhed
02-28-2010, 08:01 AM
Point is, McD stubbornly tried to force a POWER Running attack on an OL ill-suited to execute such a system.
Could you please just reference ONE actual FACT in your takes. Please, just ONE!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-28-2010, 08:01 AM
Did/will the Broncos get their #12 pick's worth?

Moreno just doesn't look like a gamebreaker you should be getting at 12.

Especially when the team had more pressing needs than RB.

Did they? No. Rarely is a player's full potential reached in his rookie season. That's why NFL careers are longer than one season, I think.

Will they? Have you consulted a crystal ball?

I agree he didn't look like a gamebreaker this year, but neither did Emmit Smith in his rookie season... he managed to turn it around pretty well, if I remember correctly. It took a beefed up line and improvement from his quarterback to get there, but he got there.

Dedhed
02-28-2010, 08:05 AM
And that's what most people are referring as our OL having issues. That our OL needs to be ugraded.
Well, if they're switching system is obvious they need to change personnel, but don't blame the current players manning the Ol for that.
It's like trying to fit a square peg on a round hole...

Yet you're perfectly willing to blame the coach for transitioning to his system.

You and rasta just want Shanahan back, or for McDaniels to run Shanhan's system. You're not willing to move forward, which makes it impossible for you to acknowledge that any time you change systems you have players who are ill-suited to the new system.

You won't acknowledge that we needed to change, so anything that McDaniels does is wrong.

WolfpackGuy
02-28-2010, 08:06 AM
Did they? No. Rarely is a player's full potential reached in his rookie season. That's why NFL careers are longer than one season, I think.

Will they? Have you consulted a crystal ball?

I agree he didn't look like a gamebreaker this year, but neither did Emmit Smith in his rookie season... he managed to turn it around pretty well, if I remember correctly. It took a beefed up line and improvement from his quarterback to get there, but he got there.

Really?

Smith went to the Pro Bowl his ROOKIE year and 5 straight years after that.

strafen
02-28-2010, 08:10 AM
Again, rasta:

Was McDaniels hired to bring his systems to Denver? Or to continue the regime run by Mike Shanahan?

Just an honest answer will do. No spin. Try it.I think he answered that question.
If I can read correctly what he said, he's saying our OL was not suited for McDaniels new system. Obviously he was going to implement his own system.
The question is, was the OL from the previous regime fit run his system?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-28-2010, 08:12 AM
Really?

Smith went to the Pro Bowl his ROOKIE year and 5 straight years after that.

****, you're absolutely right. Withdrawn.

rastaman
02-28-2010, 08:13 AM
Again, rasta:

Was McDaniels hired to bring his systems to Denver? Or to continue the regime run by Mike Shanahan?

Just an honest answer will do. No spin. Try it.

You are asking a loaded question to fit your argument. McD was hired to come in and WIN while making due with the caliber of players he inherited, at least in his first year as HC. Bowlen didn't hire McD on the sole purpose to just bring in McD's system ONLY!

Thats if you wanted to make the playoffs in your first year as HC. But I don't know thats just me. McD has proven in his first year as HC thats he's a poor Strategest and is vey strubborn in his ways. Such are the perils of an inexperienced un proven 30 something year old HC.

McD's 2009 Broncos were a playoff team had he implented a perfect blend of his own system as well as a system that suited for the talent and players he in-herited.

McD still has another 4 years to fully draft, sign, develop the players to execute his un proven system......my only question is what was mcD's rush?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-28-2010, 08:14 AM
I think he answered that question.
If I can read correctly what he said, he's saying our OL was not suited for McDaniels new system. Obviously he was going to implement his own system.
The question is, was the OL from the previous regime fit run his system?

That's not the point.

He's angry that McDaniels would have the "ego" to run his own system after being brought in to run his own system.

That's moronic. Seriously.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-28-2010, 08:16 AM
You are asking a loaded question to fit your argument. McD was hired to come in and WIN while making due with the caliber of players he inherited, at least in his first year as HC. Bowlen didn't hire McD on the sole purpose to just bring in McD's system ONLY!

Thats if you wanted to make the playoffs in your first year as HC. But I don't know thats just me. McD has proven in his first year as HC thats he's a poor Strategest and is vey strubborn in his ways. Such are the perils of an inexperienced un proven 30 something year old HC.

McD's 2009 Broncos were a playoff team had he implented a perfect blend of his own system as well as a system that suited for the talent and players he in-herited.

McD still has another 4 years to fully draft, sign, develop the players to execute his un proven system......my only question is what was mcD's rush?

STOP.

The question isn't loaded.

Was McDaniels hired to bring in his own system? Yes or no?

His rush is getting every unit up to his standards and systems as quickly as possible. Period. It has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with doing the job for which he was hired.

strafen
02-28-2010, 08:19 AM
Yet you're perfectly willing to blame the coach for transitioning to his system.

You and rasta just want Shanahan back, or for McDaniels to run Shanhan's system. You're not willing to move forward, which makes it impossible for you to acknowledge that any time you change systems you have players who are ill-suited to the new system.

You won't acknowledge that we needed to change, so anything that McDaniels does is wrong.I'm not advocating to bring Shanahan back.
If you're following the discussion at hand, we're talking about how the OL got blamed for our shortcomings on short-and-goal situations, pass protection, and our running game in general.
I think what we're saying is that McDaniels system couldn't have been fit to work with the personnel he inherited from Shanahan...

And to answer the question you've already answer to yourself in regards to
"You're not willing to move forward, which makes it impossible for you to acknowledge that any time you change systems you have players who are ill-suited to the new system.

You won't acknowledge that we needed to change, so anything that McDaniels does is wrong"
Yes, we needed change and McDaniels made some good changes, both on defense and ST and it showed a tremendous improvement in those areas.
I think the most prevalent issue was the OL. If our offensive line was not fit for a PBS why didn't he then make changes to work his system, or for his system to have had a better chance to succeed?

WolfpackGuy
02-28-2010, 08:19 AM
****, you're absolutely right. Withdrawn.

Well, I wasn't trying to bust your balls. Not my style.

I feel Moreno will have a DECENT career, just maybe not worthy of the 12th pick. The few times he broke into the open field were painful.

The team really should've traded down last year or even traded into this year's draft where there is abundant talent. It lost a big chance to load up on players following the Cutler trade in my opinion.

Popcorn Sutton
02-28-2010, 08:33 AM
Where would we start in threads drag?

http://i49.tinypic.com/2z6a36a.png

http://i47.tinypic.com/2chb5sw.png

http://i49.tinypic.com/eiqer6.png

Hey, don't be lumping me in with tsiguy! :welcome: LOL

Dedhed
02-28-2010, 08:38 AM
Really?

Smith went to the Pro Bowl his ROOKIE year and 5 straight years after that.
Behind an absolutely dominant OL.

strafen
02-28-2010, 08:46 AM
Hey, don't be lumping me in with tsiguy! :welcome: LOL

You know what's funny?
dagmar is trying to display my posts to prove that I'm starting crap with people.
My qouted posts by him just shows me responding to verbal attacks and insults as clearly seen there.
Note how I was the one quoting and not being quoted by anyone?
The guy just shows how retarded he is and craves my attention.

I have him on my ignore list and he STILL keeps hunting me down everywhere I post just to take shots at me while derailing threads.

This thread has now been officially derailed by dagmar. He will soon accuse me of being the one who actually started it.
dagmar, you're on my ignore list for a reason. You need to do the same and put me on your ignore list so you don't look like a biatch following me around and providing zero value to a discussion.
Feel free at any time to say something relevant to a football discussion.
Stop the personal attacks and get over.

Dedhed
02-28-2010, 08:47 AM
I'm not advocating to bring Shanahan back.
If you're following the discussion at hand, we're talking about how the OL got blamed for our shortcomings on short-and-goal situations, pass protection, and our running game in general.
I think what we're saying is that McDaniels system couldn't have been fit to work with the personnel he inherited from Shanahan...

And to answer the question you've already answer to yourself in regards to
"You're not willing to move forward, which makes it impossible for you to acknowledge that any time you change systems you have players who are ill-suited to the new system.

You won't acknowledge that we needed to change, so anything that McDaniels does is wrong"
Yes, we needed change and McDaniels made some good changes, both on defense and ST and it showed a tremendous improvement in those areas.
I think the most prevalent issue was the OL. If our offensive line was not fit for a PBS why didn't he then make changes to work his system, or for his system to have had a better chance to succeed?How much of the playbook do you cut out by saying "I need to change the system for these guys"? You can't make statements like that in a vacuum.

Does a car handle better with a doughnut spare tire (ill-suited equipment) or with only 3 tires (removing a major portion of the system). You have to bend your system as much as possible to the players you have, but it's far worse to simply abandon what you do.

Not to mention the fact that this OL has struggled for years in short yardage and goal-line situations. Which is why we've been terrible in the red zone for a decade, and exactly why McDaniels prefers the PBS to the ZBS.

strafen
02-28-2010, 08:48 AM
Behind an absolutely dominant OL.

There we go. Whose fault is it to put together an OL best suited for your system, the players?

strafen
02-28-2010, 08:57 AM
How much of the playbook do you cut out by saying "I need to change the system for these guys"? You can't make statements like that in a vacuum.

Does a car handle better with a doughnut spare tire (ill-suited equipment) or with only 3 tires (removing a major portion of the system). You have to bend your system as much as possible to the players you have, but it's far worse to simply abandon what you do.

Not to mention the fact that this OL has struggled for years in short yardage and goal-line situations. Which is why we've been terrible in the red zone for a decade, and exactly why McDaniels prefers the PBS to the ZBS.I'm not favor one system over another.
Heck, if the PBS is what McDaniels offense best perform, I'm all for it.

My point is, we did a wholesale changes on defense, and boy did we need it!
That was great. I think it showed McDaniels having done his homework in realizing the team weaknesses and where we needed to improve.
That was great. The results way excelled eveybody's expectations
Now, what I have a hard time wrapping my brain around is on the offense.
For McDaniels, the offense is his forte, that's his bread and butter and where all his knowledge is. He's a well-rounded guy, but offense is what he's a master in.
Why then he didn't make changes on the interior line?
The only untouchables on our OL are Ryan Clady and Ryan Harris; our two best OT's
The interior line could've easily been upgraded since those are the guys most likely to be gone when McDaniels system is fully implemented

Popps
02-28-2010, 10:30 AM
Can't wait to see Moreno run this year as we develop our lines to be able to run a power scheme. He showed some nice flashes and put up a solid YPC average, considering the struggles our line had late in the season.

I'd love to see us add a speed-back in the middle or late rounds, though. I love Buck, but I just don't trust him to stay healthy. Moreno is a pounder, and we really need a complimentary back.

rastaman
02-28-2010, 11:18 AM
STOP.

The question isn't loaded.

Was McDaniels hired to bring in his own system? Yes or no?

His rush is getting every unit up to his standards and systems as quickly as possible. Period. It has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with doing the job for which he was hired.

STOP! Bowlen brought McDaniels to Denver to WIN REGULAR SEASON GAMES, THE PLAYOFFS AND SUPER BOWLS.

It doesn't make sense to rush in a system if you don't have the players in place to execute your system.....point is, when McD has finally gotten his players in on the OL to execute a power running scheme then so be it. However, Dennison and Turner could have ensured in 2009 that the zone blocking scheme based on the personnel on OL would have the most pruedent and most effective scheme to us during 2009, or why bother keeping Dennison and Turner in the first place? Why didn't McD replace Dennison and Turner and bring in his own guys who understood the power running game.

rastaman
02-28-2010, 11:27 AM
Can't wait to see Moreno run this year as we develop our lines to be able to run a power scheme. He showed some nice flashes and put up a solid YPC average, considering the struggles our line had late in the season.

I'd love to see us add a speed-back in the middle or late rounds, though. I love Buck, but I just don't trust him to stay healthy. Moreno is a pounder, and we really need a complimentary back.

Moreno will need a lead blocking FB to help keep him fresh and healthy even with a PBS, I believe Moreno will get worn down over a 16 game season b/c he's not built to be a main cog RB.

mhgaffney
02-28-2010, 05:42 PM
Next year -- Hillis will do for Moreno what he did for Mcfadden at Ark

strafen
02-28-2010, 06:19 PM
Can't wait to see Moreno run this year as we develop our lines to be able to run a power scheme. He showed some nice flashes and put up a solid YPC average, considering the struggles our line had late in the season.

I'd love to see us add a speed-back in the middle or late rounds, though. I love Buck, but I just don't trust him to stay healthy. Moreno is a pounder, and we really need a complimentary back.A lot will be riding on the "OL" this year.
A lot of people talk about the OL as the root cause of our offense collapse.
We will see.
As for Moreno, let's hope we can save that investment, but to say that at 3.8 ypc average was solid, is stretching it a little bit there, man! ;)

oubronco
02-28-2010, 06:37 PM
Can't wait to see Moreno run this year as we develop our lines to be able to run a power scheme. He showed some nice flashes and put up a solid YPC average, considering the struggles our line had late in the season.

I'd love to see us add a speed-back in the middle or late rounds, though. I love Buck, but I just don't trust him to stay healthy. Moreno is a pounder, and we really need a complimentary back.

I hear McD says he'll be splittin carries with Hillis

Archer81
02-28-2010, 06:41 PM
I hear McD says he'll be splittin carries with Hillis


I would not be shocked at all if one of the big backs who ran at the combine today end up a Bronco. Impressive group, and could help add to what Moreno, Buckhalter and Hillis already brings.

:Broncos:

strafen
02-28-2010, 06:42 PM
I hear McD says he'll be splittin carries with HillisAwesome!
That's what we should've done last year. Let's hope he keeps his word! :thumbsup:

oubronco
02-28-2010, 06:42 PM
Gerhart would be nice

Archer81
02-28-2010, 06:43 PM
Gerhart would be nice


Dude, he is built like a DT or LB from the waist down. Lot of power, and some wheels, too.


:Broncos:

oubronco
02-28-2010, 06:47 PM
Dude, he is built like a DT or LB from the waist down. Lot of power, and some wheels, too.


:Broncos:

3rd and 1 wouldn't be a problem

Archer81
02-28-2010, 06:49 PM
3rd and 1 wouldn't be a problem


**** no it wouldnt. More size at the guards and center spot, deep rotation with Moreno, Buckhalter, Hillis and Gerhart. Can call it the ebony and ivory backfield.


:Broncos:

oubronco
02-28-2010, 06:49 PM
Hell Yea i'm all for it

Archer81
02-28-2010, 06:52 PM
Hell Yea i'm all for it


I really didnt think Gerhart would run a 4.55 40. Thats crazy for a 230 pound back.


:Broncos:

Popps
02-28-2010, 06:57 PM
I hear McD says he'll be splittin carries with Hillis

That would be great. I think we're all rooting for Hillis to catch on and become a productive part of the team. He's certainly got the physical ability.

strafen
02-28-2010, 07:05 PM
That would be great. I think we're all rooting for Hillis to catch on and become a productive part of the team. He's certainly got the physical ability.Say what? :rofl:

gyldenlove
02-28-2010, 07:28 PM
**** no it wouldnt. More size at the guards and center spot, deep rotation with Moreno, Buckhalter, Hillis and Gerhart. Can call it the ebony and ivory backfield.


:Broncos:

It is only a matter of weeks before that title is released as an interacial gay porn.

Archer81
02-28-2010, 07:31 PM
It is only a matter of weeks before that title is released as an interacial gay porn.


How inventive do you think I am? Thats where I got it from...HEYO...Ha!



:Broncos:

Beantown Bronco
03-01-2010, 03:49 AM
I really didnt think Gerhart would run a 4.55 40. Thats crazy for a 230 pound back.


:Broncos:

Almost par for the course nowadays...

Ben Tate Auburn 220 4.43

Montario Hardesty Tennessee 5116 225 4.49

Lonyae Miller Fresno State 221 4.53

Jonathan Dwyer Georgia Tech 229 4.59

gunns
03-01-2010, 12:00 PM
I think Rasta answered the question. Obviously with his response McD was not suppose to maintain Shanny's system.

Meh! McD was brought in to WIN and return the Broncos to the playoffs! PERIOD

underrated29
03-01-2010, 12:05 PM
Almost par for the course nowadays...

Ben Tate Auburn 220 4.43

Montario Hardesty Tennessee 5116 225 4.49

Lonyae Miller Fresno State 221 4.53

Jonathan Dwyer Georgia Tech 229 4.59




lets not forget about my boy stewie! Even though it was 2 years ago...Stewie ran a 4.4 at 235lbs and a broken foot.

BroncoMan4ever
03-01-2010, 02:48 PM
You are asking a loaded question to fit your argument. McD was hired to come in and WIN while making due with the caliber of players he inherited, at least in his first year as HC. Bowlen didn't hire McD on the sole purpose to just bring in McD's system ONLY!

Thats if you wanted to make the playoffs in your first year as HC. But I don't know thats just me. McD has proven in his first year as HC thats he's a poor Strategest and is vey strubborn in his ways. Such are the perils of an inexperienced un proven 30 something year old HC.

McD's 2009 Broncos were a playoff team had he implented a perfect blend of his own system as well as a system that suited for the talent and players he in-herited.

McD still has another 4 years to fully draft, sign, develop the players to execute his un proven system......my only question is what was mcD's rush?

actually, the 6-0 start illustrates that McDaniels like Shanahan before him is a great strategist and X's and O's coach, because until midway through the season his strategies were hiding the talent deficiencies on the team. it wasn't until it became about talent that we dropped off.

BroncoMan4ever
03-01-2010, 02:50 PM
lets not forget about my boy stewie! Even though it was 2 years ago...Stewie ran a 4.4 at 235lbs and a broken foot.

man i wanted Stewart in Denver so badly that season, but in hindsight am very happy with the fact we used our pick on Clady.

underrated29
03-01-2010, 03:32 PM
man i wanted Stewart in Denver so badly that season, but in hindsight am very happy with the fact we used our pick on Clady.

Agreed!