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The MVPlaya
02-23-2010, 04:26 PM
The running scheme in Denver is changing and so are the players.

The Broncos released center Casey Wiegmann Tuesday as they continue to transition away from the zone blocking system that Mike Shanahan made famous. Wiegman is undersized for the position and 37 years old.

Running back LaMont Jordan was also released. A public supporter of Josh McDaniels, Jordan only saw 25 carries last season while playing behind Knowshon Moreno and Correll Buckhalter.

At 31, Jordan may struggle to find another job in the league.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/23/broncos-release-wiegmann-jordan/

broncos-rock
02-23-2010, 04:27 PM
merge

SonOfLe-loLang
02-23-2010, 04:29 PM
The running scheme in Denver is changing and so are the players.

The Broncos released center Casey Wiegmann Tuesday as they continue to transition away from the zone blocking system that Mike Shanahan made famous. Wiegman is undersized for the position and 37 years old.

Running back LaMont Jordan was also released. A public supporter of Josh McDaniels, Jordan only saw 25 carries last season while playing behind Knowshon Moreno and Correll Buckhalter.

Because he sucks, Jordan may struggle to find another job in the league.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/23/broncos-release-wiegmann-jordan/

That's more accurate

Pony Boy
02-23-2010, 04:41 PM
There goes the unemployment rate again...... thank God for the jobs bill

jebures
02-23-2010, 04:59 PM
That's more accurate

that was hilarious

Lolad
02-23-2010, 05:04 PM
waste of space. Hillis could have gotten Jordans carries last year

zdoor
02-23-2010, 05:04 PM
Not surprised...

The Joker
02-23-2010, 05:07 PM
No big surprises there, Weigmann was a pleasant surprise in his first year but just looked lost last season.

I wish him well.

Jordan is probably done in the NFL. In a couple of years he'll be one of those guys you completely forget ever having played for Denver. He never really recovered from that injury in 2006. His first year in Oakland he was a beast, but he never really managed to stay healthy in what should have been his prime years.

Caveat Lector
02-23-2010, 05:07 PM
waste of space. Hillis could have gotten Jordans carries last year

Hillis will be joining Jordan on the bread line very shortly....

BroncoMan4ever
02-23-2010, 05:34 PM
thank christ, we are upgrading the line and dumping dead weight

HAT
02-23-2010, 05:36 PM
Wow...Only it took 6 posts for a Hillis Derail? The 'Mane is slipping.

Florida_Bronco
02-23-2010, 05:39 PM
Not exactly shocking news.

Taco John
02-23-2010, 05:53 PM
Wow...Only it took 6 posts for a Hillis Derail? The 'Mane is slipping.

Derail? Hillis is the most interesting part of this news because of the questions it raises. It's not even a subject change. It's like the next logical thought. "Huh, Jordan's cut. I wonder what that means for Hillis?"

Taco John
02-23-2010, 05:54 PM
So I wonder what that means for Hillis.

bowtown
02-23-2010, 05:55 PM
So I wonder what that means for Hillis.

Means he still has a job... nothing more, nothing less.

HAT
02-23-2010, 05:56 PM
Derail? Hillis is the most interesting part of this news because of the questions it raises. It's not even a subject change. It's like the next logical thought. "Huh, Jordan's cut. I wonder what that means for Hillis?"

CL arleady answered that question in post #9. McMeanie is cleary cutting him next. :thumbsup:

HAT
02-23-2010, 05:58 PM
So I wonder what that means for Hillis.

25 more carries next year?

mhgaffney
02-23-2010, 06:39 PM
how about 250?

Florida_Bronco
02-23-2010, 06:43 PM
So I wonder what that means for Hillis.

I'd say it probably means that Josh has enough faith in Peyton's ability to grasp the offense that he is willing to let him be the #3 back next year.

Beyond that, probably nothing.

TonyR
02-23-2010, 06:48 PM
Hillis is young and probably makes next to nothing so not much reason to cut him at this point.

bronco militia
02-23-2010, 06:48 PM
hillis cut this week?

Bowlen can afford to pay for 7th round fullbacks in the 3rd year of a rookie contract

montrose
02-23-2010, 06:54 PM
"He’s got a lot of different talents and abilities, and we’re glad he’s on our team. We’ll look forward to moving forward and seeing how his role can maybe be different and more productive next year.” - Josh McDaniels on Peyton Hillis - January 4, 2010
http://www.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/mediaroom/transcripts/09%20transcripts/100401_McDaniels_Season_Ender%20(2).doc

Rabb
02-23-2010, 07:04 PM
So I wonder what that means for Hillis.

that he will be 4th behind whatever 3rd back we sign/draft

strafen
02-23-2010, 07:13 PM
Derail? Hillis is the most interesting part of this news because of the questions it raises. It's not even a subject change. It's like the next logical thought. "Huh, Jordan's cut. I wonder what that means for Hillis?"

I'll be happy if they cut him. The guy has a lot of potential, but no here with the Broncos.
Once he's cut, traded or what have you, we can then sign another washed-up RB to take his place and everybody will be stoked...

oubronco
02-23-2010, 07:21 PM
So I wonder what that means for Hillis.

He'll be getting more carries

Popps
02-23-2010, 07:23 PM
Derail? Hillis is the most interesting part of this news because of the questions it raises. It's not even a subject change. It's like the next logical thought. "Huh, Jordan's cut. I wonder what that means for Hillis?"

:spit:

yerner
02-23-2010, 07:27 PM
The thought of Hillis as a redskin and then eventually having to hear all my redskin fan friends pretend to have 'discovered' Hillis makes me sick. I'll probably stab someone.

KipCorrington25
02-23-2010, 07:33 PM
Lamont will be fine, they are casting the remake of What's Happenin!?!? and he looks great in a red beret.

Ray Finkle
02-23-2010, 08:29 PM
The thought of Hillis as a redskin and then eventually having to hear all my redskin fan friends pretend to have 'discovered' Hillis makes me sick. I'll probably stab someone.

Hillis will be lucky to be playing in a few years. 1 HOF coach only played him out of desperation, another coach didn't play him......he lasted until the 7th round for a reason.

All the folks that think he is the second coming of Riggins are smoking crack.

Yes, I was told that by my redskin buddy in the "know" they really think he is Riggins II

azbroncfan
02-23-2010, 08:49 PM
Not exactly shocking news.

Your going to be heart broke when Denver sends Moss packing too.

Florida_Bronco
02-24-2010, 12:44 AM
Your going to be heart broke when Denver sends Moss packing too.

Why? It makes no difference to me.

ZONA
02-24-2010, 12:54 AM
Hillis will be joining Jordan on the bread line very shortly....

If that was going to happen, it probably already would have. Jordan has no value and whether you like it or not, Hillis does have value. Josh isn't just going to throw value out on the street. He may get traded, and it may not be for a high pick, but certainly not just cut and thrown away. Don't be stupid.

Kaylore
02-24-2010, 12:56 AM
Hillis is earning the salary of a seventh round pick with no incentives. There is absolutely nothing to gain from cutting Hillis now unless he is so horribly stupid that he's completely useless and the Broncos know that most teams don't feel that away about him.

SoCalBronco
02-24-2010, 01:01 AM
Hillis will be lucky to be playing in a few years. 1 HOF coach only played him out of desperation, another coach didn't play him......he lasted until the 7th round for a reason.

All the folks that think he is the second coming of Riggins are smoking crack.

Yes, I was told that by my redskin buddy in the "know" they really think he is Riggins II

Come on, dude. Let's be real here. We were all over this guy's jock in 2008. There was no question he could play. Sure...there's some element of system specificity here, but it was beyond clear to everyone that he had the physical talent needed to not just do well...but really well. Just because he doesn't fit the system and/or was disfavored for whatever reason by the staff doesn't mean "he'll be lucky to be playing in a few years". Give me a break. Did he just forget how to play football in one year? Did his skills magically erode just like that? I think not. It's not unreasonable at all to say that he'll do fine in this league when he leaves here....and its quite possible...maybe even likely that he'll do significantly more than fine. Just because the guy looks to be on the way out doesn't mean he sucks, or he can't play, or will somehow be out of the league in a few years, or its everyone's fault except for the staff that he didn't see the field this year.

ZONA
02-24-2010, 01:03 AM
Hillis will be lucky to be playing in a few years. 1 HOF coach only played him out of desperation, another coach didn't play him......he lasted until the 7th round for a reason.

All the folks that think he is the second coming of Riggins are smoking crack.

Yes, I was told that by my redskin buddy in the "know" they really think he is Riggins II

It doesn't matter how a starting opportunity comes to you, it's what you make of it. And Hillis made the most of it while he was healthy. In fact, the coach like him so much he started all the games until he was hurt. He played fantastic. That was his rookie season. Then a new coach comes in and wants his guys or to change things up, that's his choice. But to tell us Hillis is a joke is stupidity. He lasted until the 7th round because FB's usually don't go high in the draft. But most people who know football already know that. And I can think of plenty of great players in this lague that were not drafted high. And I love Shanny but the HOF coach hasn't done jack in 10 years and his player evaluations were not exactly great for quite awhile. Some could argue that Hillis looked better in those few games then any of the back did before him that season. He probably should have been starting all along.

Now I don't think there should be a love fest for Hillis but damn if I'm going to just say the dude is a scrub. Go back and watch some friggin highlight tapes to refresh that weak memory of yours. The guy is a player.

barryr
02-24-2010, 06:35 AM
It has been well believed by most the Broncos need to upgrade at center and LG, so not a real surprise here. Jordan didn't play much and I would rather have a RB who can catch the ball out of the backfield as the 3rd RB anyway.

Ray Finkle
02-24-2010, 07:24 AM
It doesn't matter how a starting opportunity comes to you, it's what you make of it. And Hillis made the most of it while he was healthy. In fact, the coach like him so much he started all the games until he was hurt. He played fantastic. That was his rookie season. Then a new coach comes in and wants his guys or to change things up, that's his choice. But to tell us Hillis is a joke is stupidity. He lasted until the 7th round because FB's usually don't go high in the draft. But most people who know football already know that. And I can think of plenty of great players in this lague that were not drafted high. And I love Shanny but the HOF coach hasn't done jack in 10 years and his player evaluations were not exactly great for quite awhile. Some could argue that Hillis looked better in those few games then any of the back did before him that season. He probably should have been starting all along.

Now I don't think there should be a love fest for Hillis but damn if I'm going to just say the dude is a scrub. Go back and watch some friggin highlight tapes to refresh that weak memory of yours. The guy is a player.

Please....where did I call him a scrub, nice revisionist history dumbass. FB get drafted before round 7 many times.....

If the guy had that much talent, he'd start or some team would have traded for him. Why are all of you so thick to get that the guy is not "bright" enough to pick up schemes. Shanahan only used him when he had to and McDaniel's spoke highly of him last offseason only to not use him.

His "big" three games in 08 came against the Raiders, Chiefs, and Jets....not exactly great run defense teams that year.

Ray Finkle
02-24-2010, 07:26 AM
Come on, dude. Let's be real here. We were all over this guy's jock in 2008. There was no question he could play. Sure...there's some element of system specificity here, but it was beyond clear to everyone that he had the physical talent needed to not just do well...but really well. Just because he doesn't fit the system and/or was disfavored for whatever reason by the staff doesn't mean "he'll be lucky to be playing in a few years". Give me a break. Did he just forget how to play football in one year? Did his skills magically erode just like that? I think not. It's not unreasonable at all to say that he'll do fine in this league when he leaves here....and its quite possible...maybe even likely that he'll do significantly more than fine. Just because the guy looks to be on the way out doesn't mean he sucks, or he can't play, or will somehow be out of the league in a few years, or its everyone's fault except for the staff that he didn't see the field this year.

Simple, let's see where he is in 4 years. If he is in the league, I will take a picture of myself holding a "Crosby is my idol" and keep it as my Avatar for 6 months. If he is not, you take a pic "Crosby blows goats, I have proof" pic...

Broncomutt
02-24-2010, 08:04 AM
So I wonder what that means for Hillis.

Maybe McDaniels will actually substitute him in for a play or two if our only tailback is gasping for air and hobbling in the backfield.

strafen
02-24-2010, 08:09 AM
Hillis will be lucky to be playing in a few years. 1 HOF coach only played him out of desperation, another coach didn't play him......he lasted until the 7th round for a reason.

All the folks that think he is the second coming of Riggins are smoking crack.

Yes, I was told that by my redskin buddy in the "know" they really think he is Riggins III'm willing to bet, Hillis will have a longer and more successful career in the NFL than Moreno.
That's why I want Hillis to be cut and go to another team and make fools out of you idiots.

Rabb
02-24-2010, 08:17 AM
I'm willing to bet, Hillis will have a longer and more successful career in the NFL than Moreno.
That's why I want Hillis to be cut and go to another team and make fools out of you idiots.

I will take that bet

Baba Booey
02-24-2010, 08:21 AM
That's more accurate

I laughed.

Inkana7
02-24-2010, 08:56 AM
I'm willing to bet, Hillis will have a longer and more successful career in the NFL than Moreno.
That's why I want Hillis to be cut and go to another team and make fools out of you idiots.

You are a sad, pathetic little man.

azbroncfan
02-24-2010, 09:41 AM
Why? It makes no difference to me.

Because your his number 1 fan boy and you'll have to throw away your 80 dollar fathead.

Requiem
02-24-2010, 09:46 AM
Instead of making this a Hillis thread, why not discuss the implications this has for the team?

I wonder if this means we'll look to draft a center for the future. I'm not sure there is anyone on our line right now on the roster who is a true center or is capable of playing it. I know we picked up Dustin Fry, but he is nothing special. Anyone out there in free agency?

Moreno, Hall, Buckhalter and Hillis are the RB guys. We also have Lance Ball on futures/reserve. Definitely feel an upgrade coming on there via FA or the draft for additional help.

oubronco
02-24-2010, 09:47 AM
Instead of making this a Hillis thread, why not discuss the implications this has for the team?

I wonder if this means we'll look to draft a center for the future. I'm not sure there is anyone on our line right now on the roster who is a true center or is capable of playing it. I know we picked up Dustin Fry, but he is nothing special. Anyone out there in free agency?

Moreno, Hall, Buckhalter and Hillis are the RB guys. We also have Lance Ball on futures/reserve. Definitely feel an upgrade coming on there via FA or the draft for additional help.

Wasn't Olson drafted as a center?

Requiem
02-24-2010, 09:49 AM
Wasn't Olson drafted as a center?

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure he was seen as a future guard for the team, I believe that is where he played a majority of his snaps with the Hawkeyes. I wouldn't be surprised with his versatility if he can play center too.

oubronco
02-24-2010, 09:54 AM
I don't think so. I'm pretty sure he was seen as a future guard for the team, I believe that is where he played a majority of his snaps with the Hawkeyes. I wouldn't be surprised with his versatility if he can play center too.

with his size I wonder if they had him taking snaps at center in practice last year

illbroncsfn
02-24-2010, 09:59 AM
Wiegman was initially signed just as insurance for Nalen, ended up not missing a snap for 2 years. Thanks for your efforts Casey!

HILife
02-24-2010, 10:04 AM
Wow...Only it took 6 posts for a Hillis Derail? The 'Mane is slipping.

Hillis for President!

bowtown
02-24-2010, 11:06 AM
I'm willing to bet, Hillis will have a longer and more successful career in the NFL than Moreno.
That's why I want Hillis to be cut and go to another team and make fools out of you idiots.

What are your terms?

Punisher
02-24-2010, 11:17 AM
Who cares we still gonna suck this year any way i say we release everybody to free space for the 2011 Free agency. Oh wait that's basketball...

Well at least we have a cool logo

strafen
02-24-2010, 12:33 PM
You are a sad, pathetic little man.Wouldn't that be true tough big guy?

Bronco CB40
02-24-2010, 12:39 PM
http://sportretort.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/pro-bowl-08.jpg

Dagmar
02-24-2010, 12:43 PM
Oh god, this dick is back.

gyldenlove
02-24-2010, 12:49 PM
Oh god, this dick is back.

Just zip up your damn pants, don't make such a big deal about this, I am sure the surgery will be painless and you will be just fine afterwards. :peace:

Florida_Bronco
02-24-2010, 12:50 PM
Because your his number 1 fan boy and you'll have to throw away your 80 dollar fathead.

Ya know, if you're going to attempt to call out every single thing I say, can you at least put a little effort into being correct? If you go back and read my posts I was against drafting Jarvis Moss.

HAT
02-24-2010, 01:21 PM
just zip up your damn pants, don't make such a big deal about this, i am sure the surgery will be painless and you will be just fine afterwards. :peace:

:thanku:

Lolad
02-24-2010, 02:12 PM
Please....where did I call him a scrub, nice revisionist history dumbass. FB get drafted before round 7 many times.....

If the guy had that much talent, he'd start or some team would have traded for him. Why are all of you so thick to get that the guy is not "bright" enough to pick up schemes. Shanahan only used him when he had to and McDaniel's spoke highly of him last offseason only to not use him.

His "big" three games in 08 came against the Raiders, Chiefs, and Jets....not exactly great run defense teams that year.

I would love to see where you got the Jets as being a bad run D team. They were ranked 7th. And when we played them they were coming off a big win vs. Titans.

Hillis played well in all the games he got carries. A couple of big plays in all. Clevland who can forget the 1st down? Or the Atlanta game when Hillis tip-toed the sideline to give a 1st down on our final TD drive.

How quickly we forget

BroncoBuff
02-24-2010, 02:32 PM
I'm willing to bet, Hillis will have a longer and more successful career in the NFL than Moreno.
That's why I want Hillis to be cut and go to another team and make fools out of you idiots.

I disagree with the Moreno take, but I think you're right about Hillis ... I want to keep him, but if we do trade him, he'll make us look bad somewhere.

When I covered the team years ago for KOA, I recall a quote "dumb player" unquote, who because of his mad skills Reeves dumbed down parts of the playbook, had just a dozen or so plays for him ... and with those dozen plays the guy helped us get to two Super Bowls: Orson Mobley. Hillis isn't the same raw talent, but he does have a skillset - especially as a receiver - which we should at least try to utilize.

Had this conversation a few days ago, but I think - like Mobley - we could practice Hillis on a specific set of plays only, utilizing him as a 3rd down/Kevin Faulk type guy. You don't have to know every single play in the book to contribute.

BroncoBuff
02-24-2010, 02:57 PM
Oh god, this dick is back.

Come on! He's only a "dick" because you disagree with him.

I think you and Florida and lots of others, on both sides, should try to accept different opinions without hurling insults.

I'll sic the "OrangeMane Bill of Rights" on you .... grrrrr

azbroncfan
02-24-2010, 03:21 PM
Ya know, if you're going to attempt to call out every single thing I say, can you at least put a little effort into being correct? If you go back and read my posts I was against drafting Jarvis Moss.

But in typical fashion once Denver did you changed your tune and were his biggest fan boy. Just saying and I have only really disagreed with you on your homerism for the defensive line that Denver has patched together with bubble gum for years that you have defended.

BroncoBuff
02-24-2010, 03:24 PM
http://sportretort.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/pro-bowl-08.jpg

Two down, one to go .....

strafen
02-24-2010, 03:42 PM
I disagree with the Moreno take, but I think you're right about Hillis ... I want to keep him, but if we do trade him, he'll make us look bad somewhere.

When I covered the team years ago for KOA, I recall a quote "dumb player" unquote, who because of his mad skills Reeves dumbed down parts of the playbook, had just a dozen or so plays for him ... and with those dozen plays the guy helped us get to two Super Bowls: Orson Mobley. Hillis isn't the same raw talent, but he does have a skillset - especially as a receiver - which we should at least try to utilize.

Had this conversation a few days ago, but I think - like Mobley - we could practice Hillis on a specific set of plays only, utilizing him as a 3rd down/Kevin Faulk type guy. You don't have to know every single play in the book to contribute.I still haven't found a solid source to verify what people here seems to regurgitate quite often about Hillis having difficulty picking up the system.
I just don't buy it, nor do I buy that Shanahan crap that he didn't used him until he had to as if he was at the beginning of the 08 season th featured back, or some sort of hight draft pick that went bust.
That's not the case, if anything for a 7th round pick we've got ourselves a good football player.
The guy is has great hands, great power running abilities and we decided not to play him.
We drafted Moreno a RB we really didn't need to draft which brought a lot of criticism to McDaniels.
Tell me if McDaniels was going to let Moreno warm the pine in his first year?
Not a chance in hell, so who was going to the bench?
Hillis.
That we all saw. The rest of the talk about why Hillis didn't play as much as he should've is just regurgitating stories I'm not sure they even mean it when they say it...

Dagmar
02-24-2010, 03:54 PM
Come on! He's only a "dick" because you disagree with him.

I think you and Florida and lots of others, on both sides, should try to accept different opinions without hurling insults.

I'll sic the "OrangeMane Bill of Rights" on you .... grrrrr

Wrong he is a dik because he gave me 8 neg reps becase I agreed with ZackKC, two of which told me me and then my lady were going to get "full blown AIDS".

Ok?

watermock
02-24-2010, 04:04 PM
So then you gave me 8 neg reps.

Feel stupid yet or still to dumb?

Florida_Bronco
02-24-2010, 04:24 PM
But in typical fashion once Denver did you changed your tune and were his biggest fan boy. Whoa! Imagine that. Being a fan of your team. LOL

Just saying and I have only really disagreed with you on your homerism for the defensive line that Denver has patched together with bubble gum for years that you have defended. I've been one of the biggest advocate of fixing the defensive line for years now. Again, please get your **** straight before attempting to call me out.

I still haven't found a solid source to verify what people here seems to regurgitate quite often about Hillis having difficulty picking up the system. Exhibit "A" - The scouting report that SPECIFICALLY addressed his mental shortcomings and questioned whether he could digest an NFL level playbook.

Exhibit "B" - Hillis gets significant playing time in week 1 of 2008, yet doesn't even touch the ball again until week 9 because Spencer Larsen was getting the snaps at fullback. Reason? Difficulty knowing his assignments.

Exhibit "C" - The multiple times he failed to line up in correct position, running the wrong pass routes and costing us timeouts. Hillis again goes to the bench.

At this point, it's about as proven of a fact as you can get.

strafen
02-24-2010, 04:29 PM
Exhibit "A" - The scouting report that SPECIFICALLY addressed his mental shortcomings and questioned whether he could digest an NFL level playbook.

Exhibit "B" - Hillis gets significant playing time in week 1 of 2008, yet doesn't even touch the ball again until week 9 because Spencer Larsen was getting the snaps at fullback. Reason? Difficulty knowing his assignments.

Exhibit "C" - The multiple times he failed to line up in correct position, running the wrong pass routes and costing us timeouts. Hillis again goes to the bench.

At this point, it's about as proven of a fact as you can get.
Exhibit D: When Hillis gets at least 12-15 times a game he's proven the experts wrong.
The important thing is how he performs. Everything else he might need work is on the coaches to make sure you prepare your players the right way.
We're talking about spending a huge amount of time to work with Orton, yet nobody sees that in a negative way, but it is for Hillis somehow... :wave:

Florida_Bronco
02-24-2010, 04:41 PM
Exhibit D: When Hillis gets at least 12-15 times a game he's proven the experts wrong. How so? No one has ever questioned his physical talent.

The important thing is how he performs. Everything else he might need work is on the coaches to make sure you prepare your players the right way.
We're talking about spending a huge amount of time to work with Orton, yet nobody sees that in a negative way, but it is for Hillis somehow... :wave: The difference is how well the player absorbs that coaching. Orton has been shown to digest information quickly throughout his career. Hillis has been the exact opposite.

Dagmar
02-24-2010, 06:17 PM
So then you gave me 8 neg reps.

Feel stupid yet or still to dumb?

Learn to spell retard before you call me dumb.

I gave you those neg reps as spam. I've told you before. You spammed my Clinton thread so much I had to delete it. So I neg repped you for every comment you made and then deleted the thread.

Purchase.
A.
Consonant.

Dagmar
02-24-2010, 06:20 PM
Dragster69 you always claim to be above petty name calling... Wanna explain the neg reps doing exactly that or shall we assume you are a hypocrite and move on?

oubronco
02-24-2010, 07:07 PM
Wrong he is a dik because he gave me 8 neg reps becase I agreed with ZackKC, two of which told me me and then my lady were going to get "full blown AIDS".

Ok?

well hell then sick em

broncosteven
02-24-2010, 07:51 PM
It is very sad that this thread had to degenerate so quickly.

If anyone wants to know who is dragging this site down all they need to look at are the fools arguing and calling each other names and dredging up past history like neg rep wars and the like.

Get over yourselves and lets talk football!


I appreciate what Weigman did here. He played well under the ZBS and was part of one of the best O-lines I have seen in Denver in 2008. He is way too small and old for a power run game system but could go to Houston or some other place that runs the ZBS and still be effective. I hated him when he was with KC because he was part of their great Olines for years. Best wishes to Weigman.

Jordan was brought in because he knew the system and to help the other backs learn it.

Sure Jordan got rushes that Hillis should have had but I think that is was more Hillis's fault than Jordan stealing the carries.

I expect more from both Knowson and Hillis this year, if Hillis can get his act together and limit the personal issues and learn the system he will be a contributor if not he will be gone. It was fun watching his play in 08 also.

Dagmar
02-24-2010, 08:09 PM
Uh oh, did someone insult Gene?? Who did it!

strafen
02-24-2010, 08:39 PM
It is very sad that this thread had to degenerate so quickly.

If anyone wants to know who is dragging this site down all they need to look at are the fools arguing and calling each other names and dredging up past history like neg rep wars and the like.

Get over yourselves and lets talk football!


I appreciate what Weigman did here. He played well under the ZBS and was part of one of the best O-lines I have seen in Denver in 2008. He is way too small and old for a power run game system but could go to Houston or some other place that runs the ZBS and still be effective. I hated him when he was with KC because he was part of their great Olines for years. Best wishes to Weigman.

Jordan was brought in because he knew the system and to help the other backs learn it.

Sure Jordan got rushes that Hillis should have had but I think that is was more Hillis's fault than Jordan stealing the carries.

I expect more from both Knowson and Hillis this year, if Hillis can get his act together and limit the personal issues and learn the system he will be a contributor if not he will be gone. It was fun watching his play in 08 also.

I'm with you there. As a matter of fact, you can pick any 3+ page-thread and you'll see the same thing, the same guys, the "old-timer/high-post count elite members of this board bringing the house down under their false sense of entitlement.
There are always those jackasses stalking the members they don't like so they can start their one-on-one fights.

Case in point.
This one only lasted two replies from a jackass to derail the thread.
Check it out.
It starts with moron #1 and follows the rest of the morons down the page...
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=89597

bowtown
02-24-2010, 08:42 PM
I'm with you there. As a matter of fact, you can pick any 3+ page-thread and you'll see the same thing, the same guys, the "old-timer/high-post count elite members of this board bringing the house down under their false sense of entitlement.
There are always those jackasses stalking the members they don't like so they can start their one-on-one fights.

Dude, your new found self-rightous schtick is vomit inducing.

broncosteven
02-24-2010, 09:12 PM
Uh oh, did someone insult Gene?? Who did it!

Actually yes, in the Broncosouth thread but I defended Gene with the facts.

Dagmar
02-24-2010, 09:43 PM
Actually yes, in the Broncosouth thread but I defended Gene with the facts.

Alright. ARE YOU GENE? His brother?

Son?

Seriously though, fair play to you. We all have our heroes.

broncosteven
02-24-2010, 09:51 PM
Alright. ARE YOU GENE? His brother?

Son?

Seriously though, fair play to you. We all have our heroes.

Nope, just came across his book and could not believe what he was able to do during his life. I read everything I could on him and NASA history.

Guy's like Kranz, Beethoven, Steinbeck, amaze me at what they accomplished in their lives.

BroncoBuff
02-25-2010, 02:22 AM
Wrong he is a dik because he gave me 8 neg reps becase I agreed with ZackKC, two of which told me me and then my lady were going to get "full blown AIDS".

Ok?

8 neg reps ... with an AIDS reference?!

Okay, that's psychotic, I withdraw my comment with apologies Dag.

So this was mock doing this, or is he just taking random credit there?

Dammit mock, I can't defend you - even on "free speech" grounds - if you spam somebody negative rep. That kinda stuff really undercuts your position, that's indefensible ... at the very least keep your rants on the board.

BroncoBuff
02-25-2010, 02:56 AM
Come on, dude. Let's be real here. We were all over this guy's jock in 2008.

Aren't these guys hilarious? The same guys who bought Hillis jerseys a year ago are now railing on him as "dumb" and "just a 7th rounder."

There's alotta after-the-fact supporters around here ... whatever happens, WHATEVER happens, they'll support as "the right move." AFTER the fact. And attack anyone who disagrees ...

These guys would support even the unthinkable ... here's what they'd say:


"Gosder Cherilus is a quality right tackle, he'll start for us a long time, Josh knows that."

"Ryan Harris was a solid LT at Notre Dame and he's proven he can play, so we move him to LT now."

"It's not just Cherilus ... just imagine what we'll get with the 2nd round pick ... it's a deep draft BroncoBuff!"

"Josh realizes, as all of us who watch the game know, there's no hiding the fact Clady's play dropped off this year."

"Clady would have been a cap-buster to re-sign, while Harris and Cherilus's combined salaries are more manageable cap-wise."

"Big surprise, BroncoBuff is weeping for another Saint Shanahan player ... Clady's gone Buff! You're not a real fan if you cry about it!"


I wish more people had the backbone to continue to support players they like, players like Hillis, even after they're set aside. It would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.

barryr
02-25-2010, 06:45 AM
I never thought Hillis was that bright a guy. Again, Shanahan only played him when 5 other RB's got hurt and 2 of them were undrafted free agent types, so Shanahan was hardly in awe of the guy.

WolfpackGuy
02-25-2010, 07:00 AM
Dumb, smart, or whatever, when Hillis got in the games in 2008, he performed well.

Noone can deny that.

Broncomutt
02-25-2010, 07:47 AM
Nope, just came across his book and could not believe what he was able to do during his life. I read everything I could on him and NASA history.

Guy's like Kranz, Beethoven, Steinbeck, amaze me at what they accomplished in their lives.

Bowlen should make Mr. Kranz our next HC.

Just tell him, 'We choose to go to the Super Bowl in this decade and win other games, not because they are easy, but because they are hard....."

Failure is not an option. :notworthy

Pick Six
02-25-2010, 10:31 AM
Since we cut Jordan, that might mean that Hillis will be able to play the "bruiser back" role...

broncosteven
02-25-2010, 01:18 PM
Bowlen should make Mr. Kranz our next HC.

Just tell him, 'We choose to go to the Super Bowl in this decade and win other games, not because they are easy, but because they are hard....."

Failure is not an option. :notworthy

Kennedy said the 1st line, Gene had me with his Tough and Competent speach after the Apollo 1 fire, google it one of the greatest speaches ever.

broncosteven
02-25-2010, 01:20 PM
Since we cut Jordan, that might mean that Hillis will be able to play the "bruiser back" role...

I am more interested in who will be playing WR this season than who is replacing the "Big Dummy" Lemont.

There are a lot of holes to fill as it is.

BroncoBuff
02-25-2010, 01:24 PM
I am more interested in who will be playing WR this season than who is replacing the "Big Dummy" Lemont.

There are a lot of holes to fill as it is.

Did we use him enough to really need a replacement?

If Hillis can be utilized (there's that name again), I think Moreno-Buckhalter-Hillis is a very decent trio.

broncosteven
02-25-2010, 03:05 PM
Did we use him enough to really need a replacement?

If Hillis can be utilized (there's that name again), I think Moreno-Buckhalter-Hillis is a very decent trio.

That was my point, we need to replace C, WR, LG, for sure and need to upgrade DL, and maybe need a TE.

I think RB should be stable or depth could be filled by a UDFA. We should be talking about who is going to replace Marshall.

strafen
02-25-2010, 05:05 PM
That was my point, we need to replace C, WR, LG, for sure and need to upgrade DL, and maybe need a TE.

I think RB should be stable or depth could be filled by a UDFA. We should be talking about who is going to replace Marshall.

The thing about Marshall is that IF he's not going to be here next year, guess what? We're going to have to spend a high pick on a receiver we didn't have to in order to fill Marshall's void, and as you've mentioned, we have a lot of holes to fill and WR wasn't one of them to start with...

elsid13
02-25-2010, 05:25 PM
Come on, dude. Let's be real here. We were all over this guy's jock in 2008. There was no question he could play. Sure...there's some element of system specificity here, but it was beyond clear to everyone that he had the physical talent needed to not just do well...but really well. Just because he doesn't fit the system and/or was disfavored for whatever reason by the staff doesn't mean "he'll be lucky to be playing in a few years". Give me a break. Did he just forget how to play football in one year? Did his skills magically erode just like that? I think not. It's not unreasonable at all to say that he'll do fine in this league when he leaves here....and its quite possible...maybe even likely that he'll do significantly more than fine. Just because the guy looks to be on the way out doesn't mean he sucks, or he can't play, or will somehow be out of the league in a few years, or its everyone's fault except for the staff that he didn't see the field this year.

Let be fair there were some of us, that didn't get hooked into the Hillis Mania that captured this board two years ago. I was criticized for stating that I didn't like him in ZBS scheme, because I didn't think he had the ability to attack the edge or cut back. That we had to adjust our blocking scheme to make him effective. Funny thing is that I think Hillis actually works better as RB in current scheme that McDaniels wants to run then anything Shanahan or Turner had in place.

Drek
02-25-2010, 05:31 PM
The thing about Marshall is that IF he's not going to be here next year, guess what? We're going to have to spend a high pick on a receiver we didn't have to in order to fill Marshall's void, and as you've mentioned, we have a lot of holes to fill and WR wasn't one of them to start with...

Why?

Highly drafted WRs are a crap shoot of the highest order. The #1 WR on the Super Bowl champs was a 7th round pick. The #2 and #3 guys on the team they played where late rounders as well. Wes Welker is one of the best WRs in the NFL, he was a UDFA.

If Marshall leaves we need to look at it as finding a system fit, not getting a "#1 WR!" to replace him. You find #1 WRs when your offense is running well and guys fit their roles.

If Marshall leaves we have two questions that need to be answered. One, is Gaffney his replacement from a routes/packages standpoint? Its the role Gaffney played in NE, and he did very well in it our last game of the 2009 season. Two, is Royal moving to the slot? In my opinion he should, taking on the 'Wes Welker role' he seems made for. He played more of the Randy Moss down field role last season because he was the only guy with speed enough to stretch secondaries and get Marshall the openings he needed, but if Marshall is here he obviously won't be the focus of the offense.

If Marshall leaves you answer those questions and respond accordingly. You don't just draft another WR high because of some "#1 WR" perception.

watermock
02-25-2010, 05:31 PM
I'm more woried about Marshall getting shot before we can trade him.

That would bad for him AND the Broncos.

The carnival never ends at Dove Valley.

Fusionfrontman
02-25-2010, 05:32 PM
It is very sad that this thread had to degenerate so quickly.

If anyone wants to know who is dragging this site down all they need to look at are the fools arguing and calling each other names and dredging up past history like neg rep wars and the like.

Get over yourselves and lets talk football!


I appreciate what Weigman did here. He played well under the ZBS and was part of one of the best O-lines I have seen in Denver in 2008. He is way too small and old for a power run game system but could go to Houston or some other place that runs the ZBS and still be effective. I hated him when he was with KC because he was part of their great Olines for years. Best wishes to Weigman.

Jordan was brought in because he knew the system and to help the other backs learn it.

Sure Jordan got rushes that Hillis should have had but I think that is was more Hillis's fault than Jordan stealing the carries.

I expect more from both Knowson and Hillis this year, if Hillis can get his act together and limit the personal issues and learn the system he will be a contributor if not he will be gone. It was fun watching his play in 08 also.


Best post of the year. I like different opinions on football matters but serious what the hell is a neg rep and why do a bunch of adults care if someone neg regs them on a message board? I hope noone's children are begging their message board posting fathers to spend some time with them, only to hear 'Not now son, this bastard neg repped me, I need to insult him over the internet and let him know that because he doesn;t worship an undrafted backup FB on the Broncos he's a silly muffin face!"

And I do like Hillis, but he should be held accountable for the reason he is not playing. Accountability, crazy concept. You can sit around and complain for not getting your chance or you can do something about it. Does anyone think Rod Smith sat around crying that he wasn't getting playing time?

strafen
02-25-2010, 11:50 PM
Why?

Highly drafted WRs are a crap shoot of the highest order. The #1 WR on the Super Bowl champs was a 7th round pick. The #2 and #3 guys on the team they played where late rounders as well. Wes Welker is one of the best WRs in the NFL, he was a UDFA.

If Marshall leaves we need to look at it as finding a system fit, not getting a "#1 WR!" to replace him. You find #1 WRs when your offense is running well and guys fit their roles.

If Marshall leaves we have two questions that need to be answered. One, is Gaffney his replacement from a routes/packages standpoint? Its the role Gaffney played in NE, and he did very well in it our last game of the 2009 season. Two, is Royal moving to the slot? In my opinion he should, taking on the 'Wes Welker role' he seems made for. He played more of the Randy Moss down field role last season because he was the only guy with speed enough to stretch secondaries and get Marshall the openings he needed, but if Marshall is here he obviously won't be the focus of the offense.

If Marshall leaves you answer those questions and respond accordingly. You don't just draft another WR high because of some "#1 WR" perception.

You never go into the draft thinking a 1st round pick is going to bust. Now, it can happen, and as you've said it's a crapshoot. That said, your chances are better in the earlier rounds than trying to strike gold in the later rounds.
Whatever the case may be, we shouldn't be in a position to have to draft a WR.
It's my feeling -unless Mcdaniels is lying like a rug- that he will try to keep Marshall.

Bronco Yoda
02-26-2010, 12:02 AM
http://sportretort.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/pro-bowl-08.jpg

What did I say about the Pro Bowl. It's the damn kiss of death I tell ya...

Thanks for your service Weigmann. You kept the line rolling for a time.

broncocalijohn
02-26-2010, 12:03 AM
No big surprises there, Weigmann was a pleasant surprise in his first year but just looked lost last season.

I wish him well.

Jordan is probably done in the NFL. In a couple of years he'll be one of those guys you completely forget ever having played for Denver. He never really recovered from that injury in 2006. His first year in Oakland he was a beast, but he never really managed to stay healthy in what should have been his prime years.

I think he will always be tied to taking Hillis' carries away that could and should have been his. Jordan was brought in because he was a Pat and nothing left in the tank. Boy, for once i sound like a McD hater.

Drek
02-26-2010, 04:17 AM
You never go into the draft thinking a 1st round pick is going to bust. Now, it can happen, and as you've said it's a crapshoot. That said, your chances are better in the earlier rounds than trying to strike gold in the later rounds.
Whatever the case may be, we shouldn't be in a position to have to draft a WR.
It's my feeling -unless Mcdaniels is lying like a rug- that he will try to keep Marshall.

Big problem here is that it might not be McDaniels choice.

Bengals, Ravens, and Jets could all use a legit #1 WR like Marshall, and they all pick in the 20's. The Jets don't have a 3rd but they do have Braylon Edwards, who could probably bring them a 3rd and then some pretty easily. The Giants could also really use a proven possession WR like Marshall.

If Arizona is sticking with the 1st rounder minimum for Boldin then whats the incentive for these teams to not just sack up and sign Marshall to a poison pill offer sheet and pay us the 1st and 3rd? Any one of them would need to be the favorite in their division if they did that.

And the reason I say we don't need a 1st round WR to get elite WR production is that we can find good system fits in later rounds. If Marshall leaves and McDaniels is going to give his role in the offense to Gaffney (obviously with fewer plays as the first read) then someone like Denario Alexander would be a great late round draft and develop type to take over in a year or two. So would Demaryius Thomas. If we need a fast guy to replace Royal as the deep WR, letting Royal move to the slot, someone like Mardy Gilyard or Golden Tate could work out very well.

Dez Bryant is the only unquestionable 1st round talent at WR I see in this draft and come the start of next camp he'll be almost a year out from having played any real football. Other than that you've got a pretty tight talent grouping throughout rounds 2-4 with plenty of interesting late rounders to roll the dice on as well.

Punisher
02-26-2010, 06:29 AM
We should release Clady too, you know just for the hell of it.