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SoCalBronco
02-22-2010, 11:06 PM
Saw this on ChiefsPlanet. Good stuff.

The exchange is below. This happened at the beginning of the semester.

"To give a little background, Scott Galloway is a professor at NYU Stern School of Business. He was also the founder of RedEnvelope.com. He teaches a Brand Management class at the school. Anyway, the student below sent him an e-mail to which Prof. Galloway responded. Galloway then proceeded to send it to his TA and instructed him to XXXX out the student's name and then forward it to the rest of the class. The e-mail now appears to be making the rounds."


Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2010 7:15:11 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Brand Strategy Feedback
Prof. Galloway,

I would like to discuss a matter with you that bothered me. Yesterday evening I entered your 6pm Brand Strategy class approximately 1 hour late. As I entered the room, you quickly dismissed me, saying that I would need to leave and come back to the next class. After speaking with several students who are taking your class, they explained that you have a policy stating that students who arrive more than 15 minutes late will not be admitted to class.

As of yesterday evening, I was interested in three different Monday night classes that all occurred simultaneously. In order to decide which class to select, my plan for the evening was to sample all three and see which one I like most. Since I had never taken your class, I was unaware of your class policy. I was disappointed that you dismissed me from class considering (1) there is no way I could have been aware of your policy and (2) considering that it was the first day of evening classes and I arrived 1 hour late (not a few minutes), it was more probable that my tardiness was due to my desire to sample different classes rather than sheer complacency.

I have already registered for another class but I just wanted to be open and provide my opinion on the matter.
Regards,
xxxx

xxxx
MBA 2010 Candidate
NYU Stern School of Business
xxxx.nyu.edu
xxx-xxx-xxxx


The Reply:
—— Forwarded Message ——-
From:
To: "xxxx"
Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2010 9:34:02 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: Brand Strategy Feedback
xxxx:

Thanks for the feedback. I, too, would like to offer some feedback.
Just so I've got this straight...you started in one class, left 15-20 minutes into it (stood up, walked out mid-lecture), went to another class (walked in 20 minutes late), left that class (again, presumably, in the middle of the lecture), and then came to my class. At that point (walking in an hour late) I asked you to come to the next class which "bothered" you.
Correct?

You state that, having not taken my class, it would be impossible to know our policy of not allowing people to walk in an hour late. Most risk analysis offers that in the face of substantial uncertainty, you opt for the more conservative path or hedge your bet (e.g., do not show up an hour late until you know the professor has an explicit policy for tolerating disrespectful behavior, check with the TA before class, etc.). I hope the lottery winner that is your recently crowned Monday evening Professor is teaching Judgement and Decision Making or Critical Thinking.

In addition, your logic effectively means you cannot be held accountable for any code of conduct before taking a class. For the record, we also have no stated policy against bursting into show tunes in the middle of class, urinating on desks or taking that revolutionary hair removal system for a spin. However, xxxx, there is a baseline level of decorum (i.e., manners) that we expect of grown men and women who the admissions department have deemed tomorrow's business leaders.

xxxx, let me be more serious for a moment. I do not know you, will not know you and have no real affinity or animosity for you. You are an anonymous student who is now regretting the send button on his laptop. It's with this context I hope you register pause...REAL pause xxxx and take to heart what I am about to tell you:
xxxx, get your **** together.


Getting a good job, working long hours, keeping your skills relevant, navigating the politics of an organization, finding a live/work balance...these are all really hard, xxxx. In contrast, respecting institutions, having manners, demonstrating a level of humility...these are all (relatively) easy. Get the easy stuff right xxxx. In and of themselves they will not make you successful. However, not possessing them will hold you back and you will not achieve your potential which, by virtue of you being admitted to Stern, you must have in spades. It's not too late xxxx...
Again, thanks for the feedback.
Professor Galloway

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=223796

Baba Booey
02-22-2010, 11:19 PM
The kid is obviously an idiot but that professor definitely loves the smell of his own farts.

http://www.mgroves.com/images/south_park_smug.jpg

DHallblows
02-22-2010, 11:23 PM
Yeah...the kid looked dumb, but the professor is clearly a douche. Knowing that he forwarded this to the class, I would probably drop his class immediately just to make the point that the professor is an ass.
But lol at the kid trying to decide between 3 different night classes. He must be a joy to hang out with ROFL!

DomCasual
02-22-2010, 11:28 PM
The kid is obviously an idiot but that professor definitely loves the smell of his own farts.

http://www.mgroves.com/images/south_park_smug.jpg

Who doesn't? ???

HAT
02-22-2010, 11:58 PM
"Those that can, do...Those that can't...teach."
(N/A if you are teaching Jr. High and below)

Am I supposed to be impressed b/c he started an online gift store?

Sounds like the self important type who also sits on his HOA board or mods a message board.

extralife
02-23-2010, 12:05 AM
people teaching graduate classes at a top flight university generally aren't doing so because they don't have the ability to do anything else.

extralife
02-23-2010, 12:06 AM
but I suppose you are an expert in these matters, having attended NYU

HAT
02-23-2010, 12:14 AM
Dude...I'm a college drop out who sells building materials for a living. What's your point?

I don't give a **** what his resume is. The fact that he wrote and distributed that email tells me everything I need to know about his character. He's a first class douche with a Napoleon complex.

extralife
02-23-2010, 12:16 AM
what would you do if you were in an International Building Material Sellers Conference, giving a presentation, and some dude walked in a hour late and then sent you a whiny e-mail about how he felt bad that this was frowned upon. I'm sure the professor just had fun writing the e-mail, and I'm sure the kid either got over it, or he'll end up dropping out of NYU because he wont be able to hack it.

Swedish Extrovert
02-23-2010, 12:34 AM
Yeah...the kid looked dumb, but the professor is clearly a douche.

Most professors are somewhat douches, lol.

McDman
02-23-2010, 04:01 AM
"Those that can, do...Those that can't...teach."
(N/A if you are teaching Jr. High and below)

Am I supposed to be impressed b/c he started an online gift store?

Sounds like the self important type who also sits on his HOA board or mods a message board.

SO what exactly is wrong with being a high school teacher?

Drek
02-23-2010, 04:10 AM
Yeah...the kid looked dumb, but the professor is clearly a douche. Knowing that he forwarded this to the class, I would probably drop his class immediately just to make the point that the professor is an ass.
But lol at the kid trying to decide between 3 different night classes. He must be a joy to hang out with ROFL!

I'd say at that level of education they have the right to be.

It isn't milk and cookies, nap time teaching. Its graduate school at one of the higher level schools for its field you can find.

Maybe if the standards for general decorum and consideration where impressed upon the respective management groups currently running Wall Street we wouldn't have the massive financial cluster **** we have now.

A little risk management and long term critical thinking goes a long way. Anyone teaching an MBA course after what has happened the last couple years has full license to bust balls at will if you ask me.

The MVPlaya
02-23-2010, 04:14 AM
what would you do if you were in an International Building Material Sellers Conference, giving a presentation, and some dude walked in a hour late and then sent you a whiny e-mail about how he felt bad that this was frowned upon. I'm sure the professor just had fun writing the e-mail, and I'm sure the kid either got over it, or he'll end up dropping out of NYU because he wont be able to hack it.

The fact is, the professor was not at any sellers conference, he was teaching a lecture on the first day of class - that is it. A class students paid for - a university students chose to go to - a university students are investing a huge portion of money on.

The professor is obviously a douche, and he has the "right" to do what he did. However, in the students point of view, he didn't do anything wrong. All he did was sit (or attempted to) in some lectures and weighed out his options to his preferences.

Professors, teachers, people using the logic of the real world is pathetic. I don't think most people would go into several meetings disrespectfully, in the "real" world.

Being that this is a graduate student, it makes it worse on the professor.

I see it both ways though - from a professors point of view he has the right to do what he did and has a point of disrupting his lecture.

From the students point of view - he has the right to view his class options - considering it's Day 1 of school.

The professor started reaching though - talking bout risk analysis..etc. I think his goal was more to try and "own" the kid rather than teach him anything.

You will always run into people like this professor though - it's the people that you'll want to stomp on in the future or refer back to and shove your **** in their face when/if you become success in the future.

The MVPlaya
02-23-2010, 04:22 AM
I'd say at that level of education they have the right to be.

It isn't milk and cookies, nap time teaching. Its graduate school at one of the higher level schools for its field you can find.

Maybe if the standards for general decorum and consideration where impressed upon the respective management groups currently running Wall Street we wouldn't have the massive financial cluster **** we have now.

A little risk management and long term critical thinking goes a long way. Anyone teaching an MBA course after what has happened the last couple years has full license to bust balls at will if you ask me.

What did the student do to indicate he wasn't taking his **** seriously? If he wasn't - he wouldn't be going through 3 different classes on the same day to see what he liked.

Lol busting balls isn't going to get rid of what happened on wall street, any one can sit there and be good, respectful, smart, etc and work his way to be smart on the outside while something is burning on the inside.

Honestly, I wouldn't see it as a big deal - he was more likely trying to own the kid than be serious. A little bit of army strictness I guess you can say. At the end of the day, from the kids perspective, he just take it for what it is and move on as that professor obviously isn't worth his time.

I mean come on - a professor writing out a longer email than another student that isn't even in his class? Of course he had to pass it out - or else his time was being wasted through everything he learned in being productive through his education. :spit:

WolfpackGuy
02-23-2010, 04:25 AM
Just another person hiding as a college instructor who couldn't hack it in the real world.

The professor was acting like the student came in late to the final.

Ran into plenty of them in my school daze.

The MVPlaya
02-23-2010, 04:28 AM
http://www.portfolio.com/executives/features/2008/01/31/Scott-Galloway-Profile/

more info about him

http://twitter.com/ProfGalloway

his twitter...

I guess after doing about 5-10 minutes of reading on him it seems as if he's known to be a jackass/dick

Garcia Bronco
02-23-2010, 04:36 AM
Yeah...the kid looked dumb, but the professor is clearly a douche. Knowing that he forwarded this to the class, I would probably drop his class immediately just to make the point that the professor is an ass.
But lol at the kid trying to decide between 3 different night classes. He must be a joy to hang out with ROFL!

I professor shopped in college. It a wise move. It keeps one from ending up with an asshole teacher. Don't forget that as a student you are a paying customer.

Garcia Bronco
02-23-2010, 04:38 AM
Dude...I'm a college drop out who sells building materials for a living. What's your point?

I don't give a **** what his resume is. The fact that he wrote and distributed that email tells me everything I need to know about his character. He's a first class douche with a Napoleon complex.

This.

The MVPlaya
02-23-2010, 04:44 AM
I professor shopped in college. It a wise move. It keeps one from ending up with an a-hole teacher. Don't forget that as a student you are a paying customer.

Yes.

Drek
02-23-2010, 04:53 AM
What did the student do to indicate he wasn't taking his **** seriously? If he wasn't - he wouldn't be going through 3 different classes on the same day to see what he liked.
Because 20 minute snipets mid-lecture is a great way to see what class you want?

How about meeting with the professors before the beginning of the semester if he's so serious? Thats what I always did when I was trying to decide between classes.

Sounds like a dude checking classes for the best study buddy turned one night stand prospects. Nothing wrong with that, just don't act like a bitch when you get called on it.

Lol busting balls isn't going to get rid of what happened on wall street, any one can sit there and be good, respectful, smart, etc and work his way to be smart on the outside while something is burning on the inside.
Hammering home critical thinking would though. Only the most self obsessed clown could possibly think that 1. 20 minutes of a class would be indicative of his experience over a full semester with the professor and 2. that a professor isn't going to be offended by someone walking in an hour late.

Honestly, I wouldn't see it as a big deal - he was more likely trying to own the kid than be serious. A little bit of army strictness I guess you can say. At the end of the day, from the kids perspective, he just take it for what it is and move on as that professor obviously isn't worth his time.
I see it more as a professor tired of the unprofessional, self entitled bull**** that is growing within all segments of society, especially when he's supposed to be teaching at one of the elite MBA programs in the country.

I mean come on - a professor writing out a longer email than another student that isn't even in his class? Of course he had to pass it out - or else his time was being wasted through everything he learned in being productive through his education. :spit:
If it gets just one of the people who received it to stop and think just once about their actions as it pertains to all the parties involved, and not just their own viewpoint it would have been well worth his time I'd say.

Drek
02-23-2010, 04:56 AM
I professor shopped in college. It a wise move. It keeps one from ending up with an a-hole teacher. Don't forget that as a student you are a paying customer.

This isn't undergrad. This is a graduate program. Most grad students are on grants, fellowships, or scholarship and are effectively paid staff of the university.

gunns
02-23-2010, 05:20 AM
Because 20 minute snipets mid-lecture is a great way to see what class you want?

How about meeting with the professors before the beginning of the semester if he's so serious? Thats what I always did when I was trying to decide between classes.

Sounds like a dude checking classes for the best study buddy turned one night stand prospects. Nothing wrong with that, just don't act like a b**** when you get called on it.


Hammering home critical thinking would though. Only the most self obsessed clown could possibly think that 1. 20 minutes of a class would be indicative of his experience over a full semester with the professor and 2. that a professor isn't going to be offended by someone walking in an hour late.


I see it more as a professor tired of the unprofessional, self entitled bull**** that is growing within all segments of society, especially when he's supposed to be teaching at one of the elite MBA programs in the country.


If it gets just one of the people who received it to stop and think just once about their actions as it pertains to all the parties involved, and not just their own viewpoint it would have been well worth his time I'd say.

This

The word that jumped out at me in the professor's email was manners, something that is severely lacking in this country. The student thought he was owed something, he wasn't. The sooner he learns that lesson the better. Doesn't sound to me like he could have handled that professor anyway.

ElwayMD
02-23-2010, 06:25 AM
SO what exactly is wrong with being a high school teacher?

That quote is just a way to make those who DON'T teach feel better about themselves when summer comes along.

ElwayMD
02-23-2010, 06:37 AM
Just another person hiding as a college instructor who couldn't hack it in the real world.

The professor was acting like the student came in late to the final.

Ran into plenty of them in my school daze.

Apparently don't know much about Masters Degree programs. To effectively teach at the Masters level you need to have some sort of achievement in your field in the "real world" as you call it. Most professors at the Masters level in a practical discipline like Business are currently working in the "real world". I'm pretty sure if someone came to you and said "would you like to teach students about xyz in order to help them achieve the same level of success that you have? We'll give you summers off and a stress free (except for midterms and finals) work environment". Sounds like a no-brainer to me.

Beantown Bronco
02-23-2010, 06:41 AM
Lucky for me, the last time I saw a Professor really own a student, I had my camera phone handy. Here's the footage:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Xfi4s8cjLFI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Xfi4s8cjLFI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

ant1999e
02-23-2010, 06:55 AM
This

The word that jumped out at me in the professor's email was manners, something that is severely lacking in this country. The student thought he was owed something, he wasn't. The sooner he learns that lesson the better. Doesn't sound to me like he could have handled that professor anyway.

Agree. Lack of respect and responsibility is really hurting our country.

dbfan4life
02-23-2010, 07:59 AM
people teaching graduate classes at a top flight university generally aren't doing so because they don't have the ability to do anything else.

This is true of Prof's in general. Most Prof's have real world experience in their fields as should be the case. It is rare that you have one straight out of doctorate school and into the classroom. Prof's choose to be there for the students and deserve a certain level of courtesy and respect. That being said, this Prof was a douche. Reply to the student, yes. Distribute the conversations for the whole world to see is seriously messed up. That guy must really love him some him.

Kaylore
02-23-2010, 08:07 AM
I'm personally annoyed when I'm in a class and some douche always comes in late with this look on his face like he can come and go when he wants. I remember one professor I had locked the door after class started so you couldn't get in from the outside. He didn't even take attendance, he just hated people being late.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-23-2010, 08:27 AM
I think that not letting the kid in is just fine, and is his prerogative. I wouldn't have let him in either.

But the discussion should have stayed between A and B, and should not have been distributed across campus (though I'm sure a lot of his colleagues now think he's got quite the pair of balls, and it probably resulted in more high fives at the professor's cocktail hour). I don't even disagree with what he said; personal responsibility is lacking in this country, and the kid embodied that pretty well. It just shouldn't have been sent around.

sixtimeseight
02-23-2010, 08:28 AM
Apparently don't know much about Masters Degree programs. To effectively teach at the Masters level you need to have some sort of achievement in your field in the "real world" as you call it. Most professors at the Masters level in a practical discipline like Business are currently working in the "real world". I'm pretty sure if someone came to you and said "would you like to teach students about xyz in order to help them achieve the same level of success that you have? We'll give you summers off and a stress free (except for midterms and finals) work environment". Sounds like a no-brainer to me.

I'm guessing Wolfpack Guy's school "daze" were short and not too sweet. But of course I'm sure it was all the professor's faults that he couldn't get through college.

bronco militia
02-23-2010, 08:35 AM
yeah the professor is a dick....so what.

the world is full of them.

FYI, that sounds like the conversations I have with my 18 year old son. It was so much easier when you could spank them

Beantown Bronco
02-23-2010, 08:35 AM
I remember one professor I had locked the door after class started so you couldn't get in from the outside.

I had a principal in high school like that once. Put chains on the doors even. Always made us sing in the halls, in assemblies, etc. Walked down the halls shouting into a bull horn. Beat up the local gang members. It got pretty annoying to say the least.

Here he is.


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z6zryIyVlmo&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z6zryIyVlmo&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Garcia Bronco
02-23-2010, 08:50 AM
I had a principal in high school like that once. Put chains on the doors even. Always made us sing in the halls, in assemblies, etc. Walked down the halls shouting into a bull horn. Beat up the local gang members. It got pretty annoying to say the least.

Here he is.


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z6zryIyVlmo&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z6zryIyVlmo&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I remember that guy...they used to call him Crazy Joe....now they call him Batman. He always claimed that the only thing he ever had to do was stay black and die.

Garcia Bronco
02-23-2010, 08:56 AM
I think everyone here has made good points, but this how you can tell this teacher doesn't spend a whole lotta time in the "real world". Had he done that at a company..sent out an email to everyone dressing down someone..he'd be fired for creating a hostile work environment and his company could be sued.

TotallyScrewed
02-23-2010, 09:26 AM
The fact is, the professor was not at any sellers conference, he was teaching a lecture on the first day of class - that is it. A class students paid for - a university students chose to go to - a university students are investing a huge portion of money on.

The professor is obviously a douche, and he has the "right" to do what he did. However, in the students point of view, he didn't do anything wrong. All he did was sit (or attempted to) in some lectures and weighed out his options to his preferences.

Professors, teachers, people using the logic of the real world is pathetic. I don't think most people would go into several meetings disrespectfully, in the "real" world.

Being that this is a graduate student, it makes it worse on the professor.

I see it both ways though - from a professors point of view he has the right to do what he did and has a point of disrupting his lecture.

From the students point of view - he has the right to view his class options - considering it's Day 1 of school.

The professor started reaching though - talking bout risk analysis..etc. I think his goal was more to try and "own" the kid rather than teach him anything.

You will always run into people like this professor though - it's the people that you'll want to stomp on in the future or refer back to and shove your **** in their face when/if you become success in the future.


Your post is a boat load of crap by somebody who hasn't taken a graduate level course.

Graduate level courses are for serious students only. You DON'T sample because there aren't first day gimmies. This isn't freshman english. The first day you are expected to have read XXX number of pages from the text (Yes, hundreds of pages) and be prepared to discuss critically. These courses are required or are of specific interest to you. The very idea of sampling is stupid, which is why I doubt the legitimacy of the entire scenario.

So given that it might be true or not...

1) Did the other students pay a lot of money? Does the interruption help?
2) Is grading subjective?
3) Do the other students want the instructor going off or pissy?

Don't interrupt the class without a well thought out reason...period. I don't think it happened.

TotallyScrewed
02-23-2010, 09:31 AM
I think everyone here has made good points, but this how you can tell this teacher doesn't spend a whole lotta time in the "real world". Had he done that at a company..sent out an email to everyone dressing down someone..he'd be fired for creating a hostile work environment and his company could be sued.

The upper echelon can and will do whatever they feel is necessary...be they engineering, management or whatever. They can be blunt or even rude because they are right. It's called life and working "at will".

Rabb
02-23-2010, 09:35 AM
The upper echelon can and will do whatever they feel is necessary...be they engineering, management or whatever. They can be blunt or even rude because they are right. It's called life and working "at will".

no, they can't...not anymore

not saying I agree or disagree with your point...but the reality is that in this touchy feely litigious society we are in, if this happened in my work place someone would be standing tall in front of HR

not to mention, it's just unprofessional IMO

WolfpackGuy
02-23-2010, 09:41 AM
I'm guessing Wolfpack Guy's school "daze" were short and not too sweet. But of course I'm sure it was all the professor's faults that he couldn't get through college.

Like I really give a fug what you think. I did just fine in school.

By the way, I'll take 30 bucks, regular unleaded.

Squeegie my windshield too while you're at it.

gyldenlove
02-23-2010, 09:51 AM
I think that not letting the kid in is just fine, and is his prerogative. I wouldn't have let him in either.

But the discussion should have stayed between A and B, and should not have been distributed across campus (though I'm sure a lot of his colleagues now think he's got quite the pair of balls, and it probably resulted in more high fives at the professor's cocktail hour). I don't even disagree with what he said; personal responsibility is lacking in this country, and the kid embodied that pretty well. It just shouldn't have been sent around.

This - the other people in class have a right to be taught uninterupted, but sending out a mass email like that is a douchey move.

Garcia Bronco
02-23-2010, 09:57 AM
The upper echelon can and will do whatever they feel is necessary...be they engineering, management or whatever. They can be blunt or even rude because they are right. It's called life and working "at will".

I wouldn't call a professor upper echelon. Even that dumbass at harvard got hauled off to jail.

Nope. You can't dog someone like that in a professional environment. You'll end up with bad press and lawsuits.

ghwk
02-23-2010, 09:57 AM
As someone who holds a professional position and has taught at the university level, I have to admit the prof was within his rights but I just think he picked the wrong time to enforce them. First night of class; folks get a one class grace period to understand the rules, especially if they are non standard e.g. how I am going to enforce my attendance policy especially if that isn't standard for the college. I would have made the point about the policy when he came in, that is all the calling out that is necessary. My guess is this student would have no problem following the policy from that point forward.

Garcia Bronco
02-23-2010, 09:58 AM
As someone who holds a professional position and has taught at the university level, I have to admit the prof was within his rights but I just think he picked the wrong time to enforce them. First night of class; folks get a one class grace period to understand the rules, especially if they are non standard e.g. how I am going to enforce my attendance policy especially if that isn't standard for the college. I would have made the point about the policy when he came in, that is all the calling out that is necessary. My guess is this student would have no problem following the policy from that point forward.

I agree with his response to the email. He's not wrong, but you don't send that out to everyone. And technically putting it in writing is a bad idea because now there is a "paper" trail

yerner
02-23-2010, 11:04 AM
That professor is a twit. I had a Phd guy do the same thing to me at UofA when I was taking some Masters classes a few years ago. It was the first class and I had signed up only the day before and he expected some reading to have already been done. When he asked me to leave I said I wouldn't. We stared at each other for awhile until he finally started teaching. Sometimes physical intimidation is great. I would have a real problem with him posting that email btw.

The MVPlaya
02-23-2010, 02:46 PM
Because 20 minute snipets mid-lecture is a great way to see what class you want?

How about meeting with the professors before the beginning of the semester if he's so serious? Thats what I always did when I was trying to decide between classes.

Sounds like a dude checking classes for the best study buddy turned one night stand prospects. Nothing wrong with that, just don't act like a b**** when you get called on it.


Hammering home critical thinking would though. Only the most self obsessed clown could possibly think that 1. 20 minutes of a class would be indicative of his experience over a full semester with the professor and 2. that a professor isn't going to be offended by someone walking in an hour late.


Look - no one knows the scenario, the amount of students in class, how it happens, etc. So we can draw up any scenario we want.

However, the fact is - he walked in late prior to his previous class too, and obviously didn't get much heat for that.

A lot of people take 20 minute snippets of classes to see if they like it...? You can get a good feel of the professor within a short amount of time. This isn't something new.

No one is saying it would be indicative of the whole semester or term either. You go in the class for the first day, get the syllabus, see how the professor teachers, interacts, etc and that's usually enough for some students to feel comfortable with taking that certain professor. That's all it is, nothing more.

The MVPlaya
02-23-2010, 02:55 PM
Your post is a boat load of crap by somebody who hasn't taken a graduate level course.

Graduate level courses are for serious students only. You DON'T sample because there aren't first day gimmies. This isn't freshman english. The first day you are expected to have read XXX number of pages from the text (Yes, hundreds of pages) and be prepared to discuss critically. These courses are required or are of specific interest to you. The very idea of sampling is stupid, which is why I doubt the legitimacy of the entire scenario.

So given that it might be true or not...

1) Did the other students pay a lot of money? Does the interruption help?
2) Is grading subjective?
3) Do the other students want the instructor going off or pissy?

Don't interrupt the class without a well thought out reason...period. I don't think it happened.

No, I haven't taken any graduate courses. This isn't about that, this isn't about someone purposely interrupting class, or going to class an hour late on the 3rd class meeting. This is day 1, where you usually gain information first. If he was expected to have read hundreds of pages and discuss critically prior to that session then that is that - but we don't have this information so this type of assumption just tells me you're trying to hype up graduate courses to boost your credibility of this situation.

Like I said, what is an indicator that he wasn't serious? The only one that WASN'T serious was the professor as hinted in the email. The student is going around seeing what professor would fit best, that's IT. People are acting as if he didn't pay money, etc.

Someone said most students are in grad school based of grants, etc - free money pretty much. Again do we know this? No. How do you know he didn't have to take out loans?

There are so many scenarios or information we do not know but it's definitely not in favor of the teacher. It's known he is a dick/a-hole... and his email proved so.

The end my point - if this happened - it would be a rare scenario because most professors wouldn't mind this happening on the first day. To sit here and tell me or anyone that the student is an idiot is an indicator that you are holding judgment off of your own bias towards your beliefs of a student being serious.

Pony Boy
02-23-2010, 03:35 PM
I would say the Professor has Tenure and is untouchable. They tend to be double douche bags when they know they can't be fired for doing or writing whatever they wish.

Endy
02-23-2010, 03:48 PM
I am a college professor and while the sense of entitlement that some of my students have would drive all of us crazy, what the professor did in this case (if this is actually true) was obviously done in a moment of "Wow, look at me."

While college students do pay for their education, that doesn't give them carte blanche to disrespect the learning environment. They can certainly drop classes they don't like, or avoid professors who are jerks, but coming and going as one pleases is not stipulated on the tuition bill. Neither is the right to send text messages, hold conversations, sleep, or conduct oneself in an otherwise distracting manner. If you want to do any of those things, fine, just stay home. I don't care if you are there or not.

That being said, most professors I know don't get that worked up over the comings and goings of students. They're adults, sometimes they have to leave early or show up late.

My response probably would have been something like:

"Dear XXXX,

It is unfortunate that you are unhappy about being asked to leave my class. As a professor it is my job to ensure that everybody in the class has the opportunity to learn in an environment that isn't constantly disrupted by the entrance of late students. This is the reason for my policy and the first day of class is not any less important than any of the other subsequent days. I can understand your desire to check out classes before you commit. Perhaps next semester you should show up to my class first. Of course if you leave to check out other classes, I wouldn't plan on coming back until the next class meeting.

Sincerely,

Dr. Phat Endy"

Houshyamama
02-23-2010, 03:55 PM
Dude...I'm a college drop out who sells building materials for a living. What's your point?

I don't give a **** what his resume is. The fact that he wrote and distributed that email tells me everything I need to know about his character. He's a first class douche with a Napoleon complex.

Not trying to call you out here, but you're probably wrong. Really wrong.

Higher levels of education have traditional guidelines of behavior. This kid here is most likely an entitled douche who thinks he's a bit smarter than he really is. The professor's response cracked me up, it was very tongue-in-cheek and mocked the kid's passive-aggressive efforts.

Abqbronco
02-23-2010, 04:49 PM
I think everyone here has made good points, but this how you can tell this teacher doesn't spend a whole lotta time in the "real world". Had he done that at a company..sent out an email to everyone dressing down someone..he'd be fired for creating a hostile work environment and his company could be sued.

As an employee, I have been spoken to like this. As a manager I have spoken to people like this. As a older student I am sick of seeing students acting like this one. Screw the lawsuit. More people need to be spoken to like this to stop the feeling of entitlement.

His/her "shopping" for a professor is a joke too. He is NOT a customer. He/she is a graduate student that wants to lead others and is going to have to deal with many different personalities along the way. It shouldn't be a damn country club. In my class today there were at least 8 people late to class. My professor is 75 years old, intelligent as hell and treated with a lack of respect that is alarming at best. If a student wants to be treated like a guest they should go to a hotel. I have heard this logic from students this semester and it pisses me off to no end. They should quit if they don't like it.

Of course that is just my opinion. I could be wrong...

Abqbronco
02-23-2010, 04:52 PM
I wouldn't call a professor upper echelon. Even that dumbass at harvard got hauled off to jail.

Nope. You can't dog someone like that in a professional environment. You'll end up with bad press and lawsuits.

Yes you can. Just don't do it in front of anyone or put it in an e-mail.

Houshyamama
02-23-2010, 04:56 PM
As an employee, I have been spoken to like this. As a manager I have spoken to people like this. As a older student I am sick of seeing students acting like this one. Screw the lawsuit. More people need to be spoken to like this to stop the feeling of entitlement.

His/her "shopping" for a professor is a joke too. He is NOT a customer. He/she is a graduate student that wants to lead others and is going to have to deal with many different personalities along the way. It shouldn't be a damn country club. In my class today there were at least 8 people late to class. My professor is 75 years old, intelligent as hell and treated with a lack of respect that is alarming at best. If a student wants to be treated like a guest they should go to a hotel. I have heard this logic from students this semester and it pisses me off to no end. They should quit if they don't like it.

Of course that is just my opinion. I could be wrong...

:thumbs: This

TotallyScrewed
02-23-2010, 05:29 PM
no, they can't...not anymore

not saying I agree or disagree with your point...but the reality is that in this touchy feely litigious society we are in, if this happened in my work place someone would be standing tall in front of HR

not to mention, it's just unprofessional IMO

Here's the thing...

HR reports to the upper's or works for those you seriously value the upper's.

I've run into plenty of super smart people who were able to cop attitude, rudeness and flaunt any transgression that "average" folks couldn't because of their value to the corporation. Their super smarts are their pass. If you or I don't like it...we can walk. It's part of intellectual property that separates struggling firms from really successful firms...people are the key. That doesn't mean the key people are Mr. or Ms. Nice Person.

There are also plenty of super smarts who are down to earth and value others.

Litigious?? Based on...

Endy
02-23-2010, 05:37 PM
Here's the thing...

HR reports to the upper's or works for those you seriously value the upper's.

I've run into plenty of super smart people who were able to cop attitude, rudeness and flaunt any transgression that "average" folks couldn't because of their value to the corporation. Their super smarts are their pass. If you or I don't like it...we can walk. It's part of intellectual property that separates struggling firms from really successful firms...people are the key. That doesn't mean the key people are Mr. or Ms. Nice Person.

There are also plenty of super smarts who are down to earth and value others.

Litigious?? Based on...

Make no mistake, the same is true in academia. If you are a superstar in terms of your intellectual contribution to the field and you bring in millions of dollars in grant money, you could pretty much get away with walking into class, throwing up the double bird to the class and then walking out. What many of our students don't understand is that teaching is only part of what professors do. At some schools it is more important than others, but at large universities, teaching is far from the primary concern. At the end of my career I will be measured by my contribution to the field, not by what a student thought about my "late to class" policy.

That doesn't mean I have the right to be a prick though.

ColoradoDarin
02-23-2010, 06:27 PM
So to sum up:

Kid - entitled douche
Prof - entitled douche

Welcome to America; circa 2010.

KipCorrington25
02-23-2010, 06:36 PM
It wasn't that funny...

jebures
02-23-2010, 07:08 PM
I am in a doctoral program and we do not even have the choice of what classes we are able to take. They set a curriculum for us and we are stuck with it. We can't even miss class unless an "immediate" family member passes away or you are deathly sick. They barely let me miss class to go to my g/f of 7 years father's funeral.

That being said, teachers here would never get away with doing what that professor did to one of us. Obviously, the student was a dumbass but that is no reason to ridicule him like that. That professor obviously hates his job and I hope he gets some sort of reprimand for his behavior.

loborugger
02-23-2010, 07:16 PM
I assume the Prof is the one who leaked this exchange - again, assuming it actually transpired. He loses points in my book for doing that. Having a decent point is negated by having a "look at me!" moment. But, that is what you get all too often with the college prof types. They love captive audiences, they love to pontificate, and they can never take too long to come to the point.

Plenty of buffoonery all the way around on this one... actually coming into a class an hour late, then having the gall to address it, and finally the leaking of the letter.

gunns
02-23-2010, 07:36 PM
I think everyone here has made good points, but this how you can tell this teacher doesn't spend a whole lotta time in the "real world". Had he done that at a company..sent out an email to everyone dressing down someone..he'd be fired for creating a hostile work environment and his company could be sued.

The "real world" sucks. You have people who do crappy jobs and then call harrassment (sexual, racial, gender) when they are told about their crappy work or fired. School is preparing them for that "real world" and if the professors position helps this kid realize he's not entitled to do whatever he feels like because he thinks the world revolves around him, I applaud him.

If that kid had apologized in that email I would have had more respect for his position, but he had no respect for the professor's classroom and generated an email to whine about something that upset his little feelers. And as far as the email, I could see the problem publicly distributing it had he left the kids name in but he didn't and a lesson for more than one is good.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-23-2010, 09:05 PM
Make no mistake, the same is true in academia. If you are a superstar in terms of your intellectual contribution to the field and you bring in millions of dollars in grant money, you could pretty much get away with walking into class, throwing up the double bird to the class and then walking out. What many of our students don't understand is that teaching is only part of what professors do. At some schools it is more important than others, but at large universities, teaching is far from the primary concern. At the end of my career I will be measured by my contribution to the field, not by what a student thought about my "late to class" policy.

That doesn't mean I have the right to be a prick though.

You'd probably never forward an email like that to the rest of your class or campus, either.

And that's how you become known for something other than being a prick with your attendance policy. Well, that, and being tops in your field. :peace:

Dagmar
02-23-2010, 09:30 PM
It wasn't that funny...

.

Garcia Bronco
02-24-2010, 06:35 AM
Yes you can. Just don't do it in front of anyone or put it in an e-mail.

If it's private its not as big a deal. But I'd be careful in this age of cell phones and cameras. The best thing to do is to kill them with kindness.

Garcia Bronco
02-24-2010, 06:36 AM
The "real world" sucks. You have people who do crappy jobs and then call harrassment (sexual, racial, gender) when they are told about their crappy work or fired. School is preparing them for that "real world" and if the professors position helps this kid realize he's not entitled to do whatever he feels like because he thinks the world revolves around him, I applaud him.

If that kid had apologized in that email I would have had more respect for his position, but he had no respect for the professor's classroom and generated an email to whine about something that upset his little feelers. And as far as the email, I could see the problem publicly distributing it had he left the kids name in but he didn't and a lesson for more than one is good.

I disagree. The first day of class, all bets are off. Now if the kid was doing consistently then that's a different issue.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-24-2010, 06:46 AM
I disagree. The first day of class, all bets are off. Now if the kid was doing consistently then that's a different issue.

I disagree. The first day of class in graduate school is not the same as the first day of class in undergrad.

If the kid really wanted to see which class he was interested in, he should have met with all the professors privately, not interrupted those who WANTED to be there by showing up late.

Rabb
02-24-2010, 07:23 AM
Here's the thing...

HR reports to the upper's or works for those you seriously value the upper's.

I've run into plenty of super smart people who were able to cop attitude, rudeness and flaunt any transgression that "average" folks couldn't because of their value to the corporation. Their super smarts are their pass. If you or I don't like it...we can walk. It's part of intellectual property that separates struggling firms from really successful firms...people are the key. That doesn't mean the key people are Mr. or Ms. Nice Person.

There are also plenty of super smarts who are down to earth and value others.

Litigious?? Based on...

I am not a lawyer, I am just saying that if this were to happen in my company (someone forwarding an email to everyone with the same tones) and it was the wrong person on the receiving end of the lashing...they would make it an HR issue, I have no doubt about this. To add to it, I wouldn't at all be shocked to see a suit come out of it for harassment.

Make no mistake, I am not saying it SHOULD be a legal issue, I am just saying, it COULD be whether it's right or wrong. People are court happy now, and have sued and won for far less than this. The guy is just asking for trouble, you do this to the wrong person and watch out.

The kid was wrong, there is no question there.

SleepingTiger
02-24-2010, 01:33 PM
The problem I see here is the student was very disrespectfull. He was in the wrong and for him to write an email and be critical of the proffesor made it even worse. If this was to happen in a country like Korea or Japan, the student would of been kicked out of the program.

Garcia Bronco
02-24-2010, 02:11 PM
I disagree. The first day of class in graduate school is not the same as the first day of class in undergrad.

If the kid really wanted to see which class he was interested in, he should have met with all the professors privately, not interrupted those who WANTED to be there by showing up late.

school is school. Get real. I am interviewing this week to replace a position here at my office. The first thing I do with the resume's is find the losers with masters degrees and throw them out.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-24-2010, 02:13 PM
school is school. Get real.

Riiiiiiiiiiiight. School is school. Got it.

Sort of like "If you're being sued in small claims court, just don't show up!" Brilliant (and wrong) in its simplicity.

School is not school. I barely studied in undergrad and pulled a B average. I'm studying for the LSAT and hoping to get into law school, and it's a completely different beast.

Garcia Bronco
02-24-2010, 02:14 PM
Riiiiiiiiiiiight. School is school. Got it.

Sort of like "If you're being sued in small claims court, just don't show up!" Brilliant (and wrong) in its simplicity.

School is not school. I barely studied in undergrad and pulled a B average. I'm studying for the LSAT and hoping to get into law school, and it's a completely different beast.

And yet I never heard another peep about it.

School is school. It's the same no matter what you do.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-24-2010, 02:16 PM
And yet I never heard another peep about it.

School is school. It's the same no matter what you do.

Spoken like someone who has no interest in an advanced degree.

No offense man, but you don't know what you're talking about in this instance.

Garcia Bronco
02-24-2010, 02:19 PM
Spoken like someone who has no interest in an advanced degree.

No offense man, but you don't know what you're talking about in this instance.

An advanced degree is pointless in my profession. However, I gain about 2-3 certifications...including re-ups per year....I am constantly in school. Learning everyday.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-24-2010, 02:28 PM
An advanced degree is pointless in my profession. However, I gain about 2-3 certifications...including re-ups per year....I am constantly in school. Learning everyday.

GOOD FOR YOU! That's great. And it's good that you continue to learn.

But "school is school" is just very inaccurate. /shrug

The MVPlaya
02-24-2010, 02:36 PM
GOOD FOR YOU! That's great. And it's good that you continue to learn.

But "school is school" is just very inaccurate. /shrug

School is school is pretty accurate...how is it not? Anything after HS/CC/JC you're paying some people's lifetime worth of money to be there, and yet you have to go around acting like you have no sense of worth or entitlement compared to professors? Now THAT'S funny.

Step into reality and understand that schooling especially at the graduate level is about money and drives a boatload of money and is EXTREMELY profitable. It's a business system fundamentally.

Anyways - doesn't it say this guy teaches 2nd year M.B.A classes?

I honestly don't know if that means every student is a 2nd year grad student but I would assume so... so if that's true, that means this student most likely did it multiple times already in the 1st year.

Back to what I said - this is a rare issue and the only people that is really hating on the kid are people who need to feel a sense of entitlement or power over someone. Talking about how this kid is rude/disrespectful is ridiculous and the problem with some of america today. It's slowly shifting, and people need to understand that everyone is human, and this kid wasn't doing anything out of line that is ABNORMAL.

I originally said that this is a RARE case and the people that are hating on the kid are probably just ones that are stressed and need to grab some sort of entitlement for themselves for their education because they haven't gotten enough of it elsewhere.

All the kid was doing was checking out the class - on the first day.

If this was as serious/wrong as people are saying - then there would probably be a rule for it - but there is NOT.

The MVPlaya
02-24-2010, 02:41 PM
I am in a doctoral program and we do not even have the choice of what classes we are able to take. They set a curriculum for us and we are stuck with it. We can't even miss class unless an "immediate" family member passes away or you are deathly sick. They barely let me miss class to go to my g/f of 7 years father's funeral.

That being said, teachers here would never get away with doing what that professor did to one of us. Obviously, the student was a dumbass but that is no reason to ridicule him like that. That professor obviously hates his job and I hope he gets some sort of reprimand for his behavior.

So because you ARE in a doctoral program and YOU don't have a choice of what classes to take that makes this MBA student a dumbass.

Again - the problem of academia - because you struggle in your situation means that OTHERS have a different situation below you.

:thumbsup:

Garcia Bronco
02-24-2010, 02:42 PM
GOOD FOR YOU! That's great. And it's good that you continue to learn.

But "school is school" is just very inaccurate. /shrug

It really isn't because at the end of the day you are talking about attendind some kind of presentation and then demostrating at some point that you have learned. The rigors of said material is going to be different from individual to individual some that rigors are irrelevent.

The MVPlaya
02-24-2010, 02:44 PM
The problem I see here is the student was very disrespectfull. He was in the wrong and for him to write an email and be critical of the proffesor made it even worse. If this was to happen in a country like Korea or Japan, the student would of been kicked out of the program.

Yeah - and that's why America has the #1 advanced education in the world (college/graduate college and on).

That's why rich parents from other countries ESPECIALLY Asian countries send their kids to American for school.

That's why education is the foundation of the worlds strongest economy.

Comparison to another country is pretty much invalid - this can go on about any subject. The kid is doing what he is doing based on his situation - he's not thinking about what the **** would happen to him if he was in North Korea or if he dropped the soap in prison - get real.

The MVPlaya
02-24-2010, 02:48 PM
Put it like this - if someone is going check out classes on the first day and one teacher out of all gets mad - it's going to keep happening. It happens all the time - most teachers don't care and that's that. He probably should have went to this first and the others last.

Turn it around though - what if the kid came here first and left early? That'd be clearly interrupting class, and even worse if you ask me. It's easy to enter class without much disruption - but leaving is a whole different thing if you're not sitting in the back row.

At that point there would be nothing to say but to not return to his class.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-24-2010, 02:53 PM
I don't think school is school. An MBA program has different expectations than an undergrad program, as does law school, or med school, or doctoral programs.

All of those are "after HS/JC/CC" and none of them are the same.

You'd be more correct to say "all advanced degree programs are the same" or "all undergrad programs are the same. At least that's approaching accuracy.

IMO, of course. Not trying to disrespect anyone here.

The MVPlaya
02-24-2010, 03:00 PM
I don't think school is school. An MBA program has different expectations than an undergrad program, as does law school, or med school, or doctoral programs.

All of those are "after HS/JC/CC" and none of them are the same.

You'd be more correct to say "all advanced degree programs are the same" or "all undergrad programs are the same. At least that's approaching accuracy.

IMO, of course. Not trying to disrespect anyone here.

The programs may be different - the expectations - the "seriousness" - the requirements - the work - the experience...etc

However, school IS school.

They may all have their special quirks or differences but at the end of the day - SCHOOL is SCHOOL.

Everyone is a student. And everyone goes to sleep at the end of the day knowing that they are in SCHOOL.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-24-2010, 03:04 PM
The programs may be different - the expectations - the "seriousness" - the requirements - the work - the experience...etc

However, school IS school.

They may all have their special quirks or differences but at the end of the day - SCHOOL is SCHOOL.

Everyone is a student. And everyone goes to sleep at the end of the day knowing that they are in SCHOOL.

Right, and according to Sylvia Plath, we're all dying. School is school in that incredibly general sense. Hell, in that way, first grade is no different from a doctoral program.

But that's not where the discussion is.

The MVPlaya
02-24-2010, 03:08 PM
Right, and according to Sylvia Plath, we're all dying. School is school in that incredibly general sense. Hell, in that way, first grade is no different from a doctoral program.

But that's not where the discussion is.

It is what the discussion is?

It is general and it is what the point Garcia is making. You're saying school is school is too general and you want to go into detail why it's different - when in fact you're just describing the different types of schooling.

At the end of the day - whatever your interests are - there is some sort of schooling for it and that's it. Telling me graduate is a whole different level is valid - but all it is a whole different level of schooling.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-24-2010, 03:29 PM
It is what the discussion is?

It is general and it is what the point Garcia is making. You're saying school is school is too general and you want to go into detail why it's different - when in fact you're just describing the different types of schooling.

At the end of the day - whatever your interests are - there is some sort of schooling for it and that's it. Telling me graduate is a whole different level is valid - but all it is a whole different level of schooling.

Which is exactly the point. This guy wasn't going to his first day of freshman Mass Media studies in a huge lecture hall (sorry; that's one of the few large lecture hall classes I ever took in undergrad... probably seems a bit obtuse). First day of grad school is different than first day of undergrad. Someone made the point earlier in the thread that you're expected to have already read some of the material and come prepared to discuss it on day number one. This guy was obviously not prepared if he was going to three classes on one day (although it's conceivable that he read materials for all three classes, it is somewhat doubtful), and if he didn't realize it was rude to show up halfway through a lecture... he probably should go back to undergrad.

But whatever. I still think the kid was out of line but the prof was WAY out of line to send the email around.

ghwk
02-24-2010, 04:02 PM
An advanced degree is pointless in my profession. However, I gain about 2-3 certifications...including re-ups per year....I am constantly in school. Learning everyday......The first thing I do with the resume's is find the losers with masters degrees and throw them out.


Probably a good thing you are throwing out all those losers with a masters degree, they would probably quickly realize they wouldn't want to work for you anyway. Dude you sound like a blue collar elitist.

broncosteven
02-24-2010, 07:00 PM
I think you guys are missing Socals point.

I read into it that the students actions were kind of like some of the posters who end up banned here.

They come in and expect to do as they please with no regard for others dragging the site down without expecting to have to be accountable for their actions.

Maybe I am WAY off but I read into it that the teacher was a mod here and the student was someone recently banned.

SoCalBronco
02-24-2010, 07:07 PM
I think you guys are missing Socals point.

I read into it that the students actions were kind of like some of the posters who end up banned here.

They come in and expect to do as they please with no regard for others dragging the site down without expecting to have to be accountable for their actions.

Maybe I am WAY off but I read into it that the teacher was a mod here and the student was someone recently banned.

No....I didn't even think of that at all. I just saw it on Chiefsplanet and thought it was a funny story.

broncosteven
02-24-2010, 07:10 PM
No....I didn't even think of that at all. I just saw it on Chiefsplanet and thought it was a funny story.

So I am way off after all.

I have a tendancy to read into things...

Broncos4tw
02-24-2010, 08:36 PM
Previously, I'd be in agreement that the student was a dolt, and the professor had every right to go off on him. But that was awhile ago. Now, university's are about screwing students out of their money.

College's have made this a serious business about $$$, and as such, I think it's the student's right to try to make the most of the investment as possible. Parking fees (even if you don't drive), library computer fees (even if you don't use them), outrageous book costs (80 to 120 bucks for a single book), and even vaccination fees (required to be vaccinated in many schools now).

They made it about money. They went commercial. As such, they better be prepared for students who treat it as any other business. My wife is taking classes, and it's ridiculous the fees and crap she has to pay. And then take a class in an overcrowded trailer, with no cooling (in the summer), being taught repeatedly by the "asssistant."

My respect for many universities has diminished over the years.

extralife
02-25-2010, 02:41 AM
Right, and according to Sylvia Plath, we're all dying. School is school in that incredibly general sense. Hell, in that way, first grade is no different from a doctoral program.

But that's not where the discussion is.

just wanted to come in here and note that this is probably the first time in the history of the internet that Sylvia Plath has been mentioned on a football message board.

Garcia Bronco
02-25-2010, 05:47 AM
Probably a good thing you are throwing out all those losers with a masters degree, they would probably quickly realize they wouldn't want to work for you anyway. Dude you sound like a blue collar elitist.

It doesn't matter what color my collar is. A masters degree doesn't actually increase your value in most places and can price you out of a job. It's just a piece of paper.

Dedhed
02-25-2010, 07:30 AM
People who think that because they paid for college they're entitled to do whatever they want, don't get their money's worth.

It's like telling a cop you pay his salary while he's arresting you for vandalizing public property that you b think you were entitled to ruin because your tax dollars paid for that also.

It's a professor's job to teach. The whiny little brat got a lesson. FOR FREE.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-25-2010, 07:34 AM
just wanted to come in here and note that this is probably the first time in the history of the internet that Sylvia Plath has been mentioned on a football message board.

I hope it's the last time...

ghwk
02-25-2010, 11:44 AM
It doesn't matter what color my collar is. A masters degree doesn't actually increase your value in most places and can price you out of a job. It's just a piece of paper.

Nor does it automatically make you a loser, and in a lot of places it does increase your value. It was a snobbish comment to make.

DrFate
02-25-2010, 12:25 PM
This isn't undergrad. This is a graduate program. Most grad students are on grants, fellowships, or scholarship and are effectively paid staff of the university.

Some grad students are on grants, fellowships, or scholarships.

And graduate instructors don't have any more credentials that undergraduate instructors (on average)

DrFate
02-25-2010, 12:30 PM
The first thing I do with the resume's is find the losers with masters degrees and throw them out.

That's OK Garcia - I wouldn't want to work with you anyway.
:)