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montrose
02-22-2010, 02:58 PM
With LT being released, and Mike Klis' recent piece that some "name" Broncos could be released; who might be gone during this uncapped year that gives teams an opportunity to do away with large contracts? Here are some candidates:

Daniel Graham
Brandon Stokley
Jarvis Moss
LaMont Jordan
Chris Simms

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-22-2010, 02:59 PM
I hope Simms gets cut. In fact, he should have been cut already. EFF that guy. EFF him in his A.

gyldenlove
02-22-2010, 03:01 PM
There is little reason to cut players who don't have roster bonuses due now, may as well keep them through the offseason and see how they do.

LT had a massive roster bonus due so he had to go.

bowtown
02-22-2010, 03:07 PM
I bet Graham restructures. Stokely might as well. The rest I are addition by subtraction.

oubronco
02-22-2010, 03:10 PM
Simms is the only sure fire cut out of those

Hercules Rockefeller
02-22-2010, 03:12 PM
There is little reason to cut players who don't have roster bonuses due now, may as well keep them through the offseason and see how they do.


This.

And there is no reason to cut guys like Simms or Jordan, unless they're beaten out in camp, since their contracts are up after this season.

oubronco
02-22-2010, 03:14 PM
Reality would suggest that Simms isn't worth a roster spot

ColoradoBuff
02-22-2010, 03:16 PM
Hopefully Graham restructures.

yerner
02-22-2010, 03:17 PM
ALL those guys probably get cut or restructure. What's Buckhalters number this year? DJ's? Lots of dudes making more money than their production warrants. Champ?

baja
02-22-2010, 03:17 PM
I thought Simms was signed for a 3 year deal?

jhns
02-22-2010, 03:26 PM
Daniel Graham
Brandon Stokley
Jarvis Moss
LaMont Jordan
Chris Simms

I would agree with this list other than Graham. He is pretty important to our blocking. Unless we completely fix the line, we are going to need him. That is, unless Quinn got good or we don't plan on using a TE in any formation. He is expensive though and I could see us asking him to restructure.

Garcia Bronco
02-22-2010, 03:28 PM
Graham doesn't need to restructure and cutting him would be dumb.

TheDave
02-22-2010, 03:34 PM
Hamilton... or is his contract up?

eddie mac
02-22-2010, 03:36 PM
Ben's a UFA.

montrose
02-22-2010, 03:39 PM
Hamilton... or is his contract up?

I believe it's up, I'd expect retirement, Houston or Washington. I'm interested to see what happens - I'd love for all of those guys (sans Simms) to be back. I think Graham is a very important piece to our team but I'd imagine he's being paid pretty well for a blocking TE while Stokley is an awesome backup WR but he can't play special teams and I believe is making $1.4 million. It should be interesting.

eddie mac
02-22-2010, 03:40 PM
The only players due decent bonuses this offseason are

Champ $3m
Graham $700k
Stokes $600k
Moss $250k
1st rd picks from 2008 and 2009 who's bonuses were never broken down publicly.

Last time I checked we only have about $60m tied up in payroll for 2010 which is one of the lowest in the league. If you compare that to the likes of Dallas, who have $103m or so tied up or even Washington with almost double what we have approx $119m.

There'll be a lot of other releases outside the Mile High city this year.

~Crash~
02-22-2010, 04:11 PM
we are in good shape for once ..thanks EM

TheDave
02-22-2010, 04:18 PM
I believe it's up, I'd expect retirement, Houston or Washington. I'm interested to see what happens - I'd love for all of those guys (sans Simms) to be back. I think Graham is a very important piece to our team but I'd imagine he's being paid pretty well for a blocking TE while Stokley is an awesome backup WR but he can't play special teams and I believe is making $1.4 million. It should be interesting.

I agree with the exception of simms no one should let go... having said that there will be a major cut tomorrow. ;D

baja
02-22-2010, 04:18 PM
The only players due decent bonuses this offseason are

Champ $3m
Graham $700k
Stokes $600k
Moss $250k
1st rd picks from 2008 and 2009 who's bonuses were never broken down publicly.

Last time I checked we only have about $60m tied up in payroll for 2010 which is one of the lowest in the league. If you compare that to the likes of Dallas, who have $103m or so tied up or even Washington with almost double what we have approx $119m.

There'll be a lot of other releases outside the Mile High city this year.

True but seems like most of our key guys need new contracts so the 60 mil is a deceiving number. How many players under contract for that 60 mil?

broncosteven
02-22-2010, 04:20 PM
With LT being released, and Mike Klis' recent piece that some "name" Broncos could be released; who might be gone during this uncapped year that gives teams an opportunity to do away with large contracts? Here are some candidates:

Daniel Graham
Brandon Stokley
Jarvis Moss
LaMont Jordan
Chris Simms

I would be surprised to see Stokely back.

Graham I am guessing 50-50 depending on how our 2nd round pick last year is doing as a blocking TE

Moss should be gone and I hope we draft a true 3-4 LB.

Jordan, dunno depends on his lockeroom value.

Simms was bad, unless mCd saw something he shouldn't let the door hit him on the way out.

Mr.Meanie
02-22-2010, 04:46 PM
Tying up Doom, Marshall, Orton and Kuper I would imagine are going to eat into that low yearly payroll...

Paladin
02-22-2010, 04:58 PM
I think Simms is getting a bad rap here. He actually has a decent arm, and he is not inexperienced. He did not have a very good year at all, and I am actually surprised how poorly things went for him when he was in. The issues that plagued Orton plagued Simms even moreso.

He had not played for two years, and he was very rusty. Moreover, he was trying to learn a system he had not played at all before, a complex one at that. Since Orton got the most practice time so that he could learn the system,Simms actually had very little opportunity to practice, and certainly not in games conditions. In short, he was having a second "rookie" year. I would not be surprised if there were gigantic differences this year from last in his play and his understanding of the Offense. He would also benefit from a decent fix to the Oline just as Orton would.

I am not defending the poor play. But I do suggest that his total dismissal may be a bit premature. He has had some success in the NFL before he was hurt. Sometimes I think it is better to give a guy a chance than to just simply kick him to the curb.

Consequently, I don't think he will be - or even should be - dismissed until after the FA period and/or the Draft, and certainly not until after the OTAs through the summer. There is one more year left on his deal, and I think a degree of patience is needed.

Graham should be back. Hamilton was "let go" after his demotion, and I think Moss is likely gone if a FA or a Draft pick can be found. Jordon might stay of Hillis is deemed expendable.

TDmvp
02-22-2010, 05:01 PM
The fact Simms wasn't cut mid season and replaced by a stuffed bear suit is a knock on Josh's coaching.

Paladin
02-22-2010, 05:07 PM
I noticed you were not a coach.........

Good thing, too.......

eddie mac
02-22-2010, 06:21 PM
True but seems like most of our key guys need new contracts so the 60 mil is a deceiving number. How many players under contract for that 60 mil?

41 not including futures players.

eddie mac
02-22-2010, 06:22 PM
Tying up Doom, Marshall, Orton and Kuper I would imagine are going to eat into that low yearly payroll...

Orton and Kuper will be brought back on 1 year tenders for a couple of million $$ each, hardly breaking the bank.

In truth the Broncos could bring back all 5 rfa's for $11.8m this season

Marshall 1st and 3rd $3.168m
Dumervil 1st and 3rd $3.168m
Orton 1st $2.521m
Kuper 2nd $1.759m
Scheffler original rd (2nd rd) $1.176m

DarkHorse
02-22-2010, 06:31 PM
This.

And there is no reason to cut guys like Simms or Jordan, unless they're beaten out in camp, since their contracts are up after this season.

90% of the people on this board could beat out Jordan.

74% could beat Simms.

broncosteven
02-22-2010, 06:44 PM
90% of the people on this board could beat out Jordan.

74% could beat Simms.

I couldn't physically beat any player out for a roster spot but I would make a damn good locker room snitch.

BroncoMan4ever
02-22-2010, 07:38 PM
90% of the people on this board could beat out Jordan.

74% could beat Simms.

i have a pretty good right arm. former pitcher clocked in the low 90s, and i feel i could beat out Simms throwing with my left arm. that is how bad he sucked

BroncoMan4ever
02-22-2010, 07:43 PM
Orton and Kuper will be brought back on 1 year tenders for a couple of million $$ each, hardly breaking the bank.

In truth the Broncos could bring back all 5 rfa's for $11.8m this season

Marshall 1st and 3rd $3.168m
Dumervil 1st and 3rd $3.168m
Orton 1st $2.521m
Kuper 2nd $1.759m
Scheffler original rd (2nd rd) $1.176m

if all we do is tender out guys and don't work towards long term deals it is highly likely we would lose 3 out of those 5


if Doom is available after just being tendered, he is good as gone.

for a 2nd round tender, Kuper will be gone, because Houston and Washington will be chomping at the bit to bring him in, as well as a number or other teams in the league who see the talent and potential he has to become one of the best interior linemen in the league.

I worry too many undervalue Orton. there were multiple teams inquiring about Cassell last season and the Chiefs sent a 2nd rounder and gave the guy 63million. Derek Anderson got paid. i don't think another team would drop a 1st rounder for Orton, but it wouldn't shock me if a team did.

BroncoSexyDaddy
02-22-2010, 08:12 PM
With LT being released, and Mike Klis' recent piece that some "name" Broncos could be released; who might be gone during this uncapped year that gives teams an opportunity to do away with large contracts? Here are some candidates:

Daniel Graham
Brandon Stokley
Jarvis Moss
LaMont Jordan
Chris SimmsStokely
Moss
Simms
Jordan

Daniel Graham Stays!!!

azbroncfan
02-22-2010, 09:36 PM
The Moss experiment needs to be euthanized and ended. It was one big fail.

Pontius Pirate
02-22-2010, 09:42 PM
I'd cut lamont jordan. I mean, c'mon. Dude is older than LT

Caveat Lector
02-22-2010, 09:55 PM
The Moss experiment needs to be euthanized and ended. It was one big fail.

I think McD held on to him for nostalgic value, almost as insurance. If one of his guys was an almighty bust, he could produce Moss and say "but look what the last regime did". I'm sure his dad has already handed in his playbook.

Like it or not, there's no way they pay Champ what he's meant to get this year. Either he restructures or they trade him, something's gotta give....

eddie mac
02-23-2010, 03:16 AM
if all we do is tender out guys and don't work towards long term deals it is highly likely we would lose 3 out of those 5


if Doom is available after just being tendered, he is good as gone.

for a 2nd round tender, Kuper will be gone, because Houston and Washington will be chomping at the bit to bring him in, as well as a number or other teams in the league who see the talent and potential he has to become one of the best interior linemen in the league.

I worry too many undervalue Orton. there were multiple teams inquiring about Cassell last season and the Chiefs sent a 2nd rounder and gave the guy 63million. Derek Anderson got paid. i don't think another team would drop a 1st rounder for Orton, but it wouldn't shock me if a team did.

1. Marshall and Scheffler are being traded anyway so get used to that.

2. No-one is giving up 1st and 3rd rd picks for a tweener DE/OLB who was moved around to every LB/DL position last year to get the best match-up possible by Nolan and guess what, it worked.

3. No-one is giving up a 1st for Orton and no-one is giving up a 2nd rounder for Kuper.

You seriously overrate our players and undervalue draft picks in 2010. It's a shame the rest of the league dont.

This is the best draft in 25 years in terms of depth and as King says if we struggle to get a 1st rd offer for Marshall wtf would anyone think we're going to get offers of 1st and 2nd's for Orton and Kuper respectively???

Drek
02-23-2010, 05:22 AM
1. Marshall and Scheffler are being traded anyway so get used to that.

2. No-one is giving up 1st and 3rd rd picks for a tweener DE/OLB who was moved around to every LB/DL position last year to get the best match-up possible by Nolan and guess what, it worked.

3. No-one is giving up a 1st for Orton and no-one is giving up a 2nd rounder for Kuper.

You seriously overrate our players and undervalue draft picks in 2010. It's a shame the rest of the league dont.

This is the best draft in 25 years in terms of depth and as King says if we struggle to get a 1st rd offer for Marshall wtf would anyone think we're going to get offers of 1st and 2nd's for Orton and Kuper respectively???
I personally think Peter King is being overly cautious in his estimation of what Marshall will bring. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Baltimore just signs him outright and gives the 1st and 3rd. They need a #1 WR now, not in a year or two when a rookie develops if they hit on someone, right now while Flacco is just getting to his prime. They're picking late in the draft too.

And Shanahan burning a 2nd to get Kuper wouldn't surprise me as well. Its a gross overpay and I'd gladly take it for Kuper in all reality, but Washington has never had a problem giving up draft value to get guys they want because Snyder will just buy the FAs needed to fill in the gap. In an uncapped year he's the biggest threat to go crazy with the check book.

If we tendered Kuper at a 1st I still wouldn't be surprised if Shanahan came calling for him. They need OL help, specifically interior OL help, more than anything in Washington. If Shanahan can get Hamilton out of FA and Kuper in trade he's probably feeling like he's got a winner already.

gunns
02-23-2010, 06:47 AM
I think McD held on to him for nostalgic value, almost as insurance. If one of his guys was an almighty bust, he could produce Moss and say "but look what the last regime did". I'm sure his dad has already handed in his playbook.

Like it or not, there's no way they pay Champ what he's meant to get this year. Either he restructures or they trade him, something's gotta give....

Agree on Champ, I could see that as a real possibility. I'd like to see Moss, Simms and Jordan gone. Keeping them on does not provide depth, it's empty space wasting money. As far as Simms being rusty, it didn't appear to be the case to me. When a player is rusty you begin to see improvement. There was none, it was almost as if the kid was afraid to be out there. I saw that with Griese after his shoulder injury.

eddie mac
02-23-2010, 07:21 AM
I personally think Peter King is being overly cautious in his estimation of what Marshall will bring. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Baltimore just signs him outright and gives the 1st and 3rd. They need a #1 WR now, not in a year or two when a rookie develops if they hit on someone, right now while Flacco is just getting to his prime. They're picking late in the draft too.

And Shanahan burning a 2nd to get Kuper wouldn't surprise me as well. Its a gross overpay and I'd gladly take it for Kuper in all reality, but Washington has never had a problem giving up draft value to get guys they want because Snyder will just buy the FAs needed to fill in the gap. In an uncapped year he's the biggest threat to go crazy with the check book.

If we tendered Kuper at a 1st I still wouldn't be surprised if Shanahan came calling for him. They need OL help, specifically interior OL help, more than anything in Washington. If Shanahan can get Hamilton out of FA and Kuper in trade he's probably feeling like he's got a winner already.

If we get a 1,2 and 3 for Marshall and Kuper, I'll be ecstatic.

~Crash~
02-23-2010, 08:02 AM
1. Marshall and Scheffler are being traded anyway so get used to that.

2. No-one is giving up 1st and 3rd rd picks for a tweener DE/OLB who was moved around to every LB/DL position last year to get the best match-up possible by Nolan and guess what, it worked.

3. No-one is giving up a 1st for Orton and no-one is giving up a 2nd rounder for Kuper.

You seriously overrate our players and undervalue draft picks in 2010. It's a shame the rest of the league dont.

This is the best draft in 25 years in terms of depth and as King says if we struggle to get a 1st rd offer for Marshall wtf would anyone think we're going to get offers of 1st and 2nd's for Orton and Kuper respectively???

take a damn good look at what is out there and what teams went threw this last season . Kuper never allowed a sack his first year as a starter ! I could see a team giving up a 1 and a 3 for him . yes his first year in this system and a guy that was struggling next to him the second part of the season made him have a few lapses. don't be to damn sure there are not teams waiting to pounce on him .

you guys act like he is not going to be looked at. I have seen that team are wanting a chance at Hamilton I have no links just sports radio on the Hamilton part but trust me we need help but there are plenty teams struggling to find a solid Guard to make a difference.

~Crash~
02-23-2010, 08:03 AM
If we get a 1,2 and 3 for Marshall and Kuper, I'll be ecstatic.

then you would be willing to give them up for bust's

~Crash~
02-23-2010, 08:06 AM
I personally think Peter King is being overly cautious in his estimation of what Marshall will bring. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Baltimore just signs him outright and gives the 1st and 3rd. They need a #1 WR now, not in a year or two when a rookie develops if they hit on someone, right now while Flacco is just getting to his prime. They're picking late in the draft too.

And Shanahan burning a 2nd to get Kuper wouldn't surprise me as well. Its a gross overpay and I'd gladly take it for Kuper in all reality, but Washington has never had a problem giving up draft value to get guys they want because Snyder will just buy the FAs needed to fill in the gap. In an uncapped year he's the biggest threat to go crazy with the check book.

If we tendered Kuper at a 1st I still wouldn't be surprised if Shanahan came calling for him. They need OL help, specifically interior OL help, more than anything in Washington. If Shanahan can get Hamilton out of FA and Kuper in trade he's probably feeling like he's got a winner already.

so who in the 2nd round will you get that will be better than a two year starter ... I think you should stop smelling gule.:thanku:

Rabb
02-23-2010, 08:09 AM
I want Graham to stay, I like him as a player and think he is invaluable as a mentor to guys like Quinn

Simms...he gotsta' go...now, and I don't care what impact it has

oubronco
02-23-2010, 08:11 AM
Simms is good as gone and send Moss with him

eddie mac
02-23-2010, 09:39 AM
take a damn good look at what is out there and what teams went threw this last season . Kuper never allowed a sack his first year as a starter ! I could see a team giving up a 1 and a 3 for him . yes his first year in this system and a guy that was struggling next to him the second part of the season made him have a few lapses. don't be to damn sure there are not teams waiting to pounce on him .

you guys act like he is not going to be looked at. I have seen that team are wanting a chance at Hamilton I have no links just sports radio on the Hamilton part but trust me we need help but there are plenty teams struggling to find a solid Guard to make a difference.

Year 1 ZBS team how many sacks did we give up total, think it was 9 or so.

If someone gives up a 1 and 3 for Kuper I'll send you 12 crates of Guinness a year for life.

eddie mac
02-23-2010, 09:41 AM
then you would be willing to give them up for bust's

Busts???

Crash only dickheads evaluate a rookie after one season. Are you one of those???

Have you seen the depth of this draft or how many juniors have come out???

Rabb
02-23-2010, 09:43 AM
Busts???

Crash only dickheads evaluate a rookie after one season. Are you one of those???

Have you seen the depth of this draft or how many juniors have come out???

you answered your own question

hell Sanchez could be classified a bust if we go on stats, he was pretty terrible overall

TonyR
02-23-2010, 09:47 AM
...Kuper never allowed a sack his first year as a starter ! I could see a team giving up a 1 and a 3 for him .

And this genius called me a "putz" in another thread today. You can't make this stuff up.

missingnumber7
02-23-2010, 09:51 AM
Kuper never allowed a sack his first year as a starter !

You sure your not confusing Kuper and Clady?

baja
02-23-2010, 09:55 AM
You sure your not confusing Kuper and Clady?

clearly

bloodsunday
02-23-2010, 10:23 AM
Just wondering, but if the idea is to get rid of bad contracts during this uncapped year. What about DJ Williams? He's a hold over from Shanahan with a big contract and he's never really found a home in our defense.

Dagmar
02-23-2010, 10:29 AM
Just wondering, but if the idea is to get rid of bad contracts during this uncapped year. What about DJ Williams? He's a hold over from Shanahan with a big contract and he's never really found a home in our defense.

SoCal will ban you for that.

eddie mac
02-23-2010, 10:44 AM
Just wondering, but if the idea is to get rid of bad contracts during this uncapped year. What about DJ Williams? He's a hold over from Shanahan with a big contract and he's never really found a home in our defense.

For what DJ is earning this year ($3m) there's no real point. Plus the rest of his money is base salaries down the stretch.

Mountain Bronco
02-23-2010, 11:55 AM
And this genius called me a "putz" in another thread today. You can't make this stuff up.

Seriously, E Mac has been the resident cap guru and has consistently put out theories and possibilites that come closest to reality on this board for years, yet the fools on this board come in and bash him for providing the realistic take on the RFA.

No wonder i rarely come on this site anymore.

Dagmar
02-23-2010, 12:01 PM
Seriously, E Mac has been the resident cap guru and has consistently put out theories and possibilites that come closest to reality on this board for years, yet the fools on this board come in and bash him for providing the realistic take on the RFA.

No wonder i rarely come on this site anymore.

Eddie Mac = :notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy

Drek
02-23-2010, 02:03 PM
so who in the 2nd round will you get that will be better than a two year starter ... I think you should stop smelling gule.:thanku:

I actually really like Kuper, but he's athletically a better fit for Shanahan's system. If that is where he'd personally prefer to be (and its hard to imagine it isn't if Shanahan is willing to give him a multi-year multi-million dollar deal) then I'd be happy with a very early 2nd round pick in return for him.

Especially since Bobbie Williams and Stephen Neal are both UFAs. Both are at least on Kuper's level and better fits for what we're looking to do from a schematic standpoint.

Ideal world we get a 1 and 3 for Marshall, a 2 for Kuper, and a 3 for Scheffler. At that point you can pretty easily make a play for Iupati in round 1 and sign a Bobbie Williams or Neal to man the other guard spot, with Hochstein on the vet minimum and Olsen to back them up.

~Crash~
02-23-2010, 02:18 PM
Busts???

Crash only dickheads evaluate a rookie after one season. Are you one of those???

Have you seen the depth of this draft or how many juniors have come out???


You don't hit on every draft pick and to say you will is quite silly if you have talent and it is young and fits you team you sign them long term . I see a Detroit lions fans syndrome setting in on broncos fans ... new a shiny...lol

eddie mac
02-23-2010, 03:17 PM
You don't hit on every draft pick and to say you will is quite silly if you have talent and it is young and fits you team you sign them long term . I see a Detroit lions fans syndrome setting in on broncos fans ... new a shiny...lol

I want Chris to stick here and if the Broncos feel he warrants a long-term deal and he fits the system, then great.

If they aren't ready to take the plunge yet long-term (depending on his contract price) then I think a 2nd rd tender would be enough to keep him here because I believe that GM's around the league will value draft picks very highly this year especially lower costing 2nd rounders.

gyldenlove
02-23-2010, 05:52 PM
Orton and Kuper will be brought back on 1 year tenders for a couple of million $$ each, hardly breaking the bank.

In truth the Broncos could bring back all 5 rfa's for $11.8m this season

Marshall 1st and 3rd $3.168m
Dumervil 1st and 3rd $3.168m
Orton 1st $2.521m
Kuper 2nd $1.759m
Scheffler original rd (2nd rd) $1.176m

Actually in that scenario Scheffler would be a 3rd round compensation because of an obscure rule regarding upgrade tenders.

Basicly if a player recives an upgraded tender (requiring higher compensation than the round the player was drafted in) then any player drafted in the 2nd round who recieves the original round tender will only require 3rd round compensation, I am not sure but I think players drafted in the 1st round would also only net a 3rd rounder in that scenario.

eddie mac
02-23-2010, 06:33 PM
Actually in that scenario Scheffler would be a 3rd round compensation because of an obscure rule regarding upgrade tenders.

Basicly if a player recives an upgraded tender (requiring higher compensation than the round the player was drafted in) then any player drafted in the 2nd round who recieves the original round tender will only require 3rd round compensation, I am not sure but I think players drafted in the 1st round would also only net a 3rd rounder in that scenario.

The only rule I ever heard of was the 1st rd pick would be 2nd round compensation. I've never heard of it filtering down throughout the picks.

KipCorrington25
02-23-2010, 07:53 PM
Graham mailed it in against KC, I wouldn't bat an eye if he wasn't back.

gunns
02-23-2010, 09:15 PM
Graham mailed it in against KC, I wouldn't bat an eye if he wasn't back.

The whole team mailed it in.

Kaylore
02-24-2010, 12:35 AM
The fact Simms wasn't cut mid season and replaced by a stuffed bear suit is a knock on Josh's coaching.

This is the first criticism of Josh I CAN get behind 100%.

***EDIT***

ZONA
02-24-2010, 01:11 AM
Moss has to be cut, roster bonus or not. Normally I would say keep him as long as you can and release him late so that another team who might pick him up won't have as much time to get him familiar with their playbook, but I don't think it will matter much in his case. He can't play. Same goes for Simms. Neither guy has a great chance at getting picked up and lasting through another teams camp.

missingnumber7
02-24-2010, 10:15 AM
This is the first criticism of Josh I can't get behind 100%.

After pulling him the next week when Orton wasn't ready or at least thats what Josh said, after what 2 turnovers in 2 possessions, I thought that was the end of Simms for sure.