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Harvitz81
02-22-2010, 11:33 AM
So I just purchased a 52" LCD Samsung TV and am now looking to upgrade my speaker system. I'm looking to spend around $800 and have been contemplating the Onkyo HT-7200 HTIB system.

I'm asking the experts on the mane for their opinion. I really like that the Onkyo system gives me a good mid-range receiver with 5 HDMI ports, 2 towers, 4 speakers, a center speaker and a sub. I am a little worried about the quality though, as that seems like getting a lot for not a huge price tag. My living room is only around 16' x 18', but I don't think there would be too much clutter with that system.

The other thing that I'm contemplating over is to purchase a really good mid-range receiver, say the Onkyo Ht-rc180, Onkyo TX-sr706 or TX-sr806, marantz sr5004 or sr6003 receiver. To begin with I would just use it with my current speaker setup, but then can eventually add in what I want, which is new towers, front, rear, and center speakers and a sub. I am a little anal about having all my speakers match, so that would be essential. I have seen that Fluance has a 5 speaker setup (SX-HTB+) that has gotten pretty good reviews and is cheap, but then I would need to add a sub to it and they don't really have any matching ones. The other ones I've come across are the avs123 x-series, however the ones I would look to build a system with (x-ls, x-sls, x-cs, and x-sub) are discontinued and the new series is a bit out of my price range.

Essentially I am looking to buy either a HTIB for under $800 with the mindset that in 4-5 years I would have to replace it with much better stuff. The other option is to buy a really good receiver and slowly buy really good speakers with the mindset that it will last me quite awhile (>5 years). What are the maners opinions on this.

Also, what is the best speaker wire and banana plugs to buy?

Traveler
02-22-2010, 11:41 AM
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1132432

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1045041

Beantown Bronco
02-22-2010, 11:43 AM
If you like the 7200 and have the room for it (16x18 room is fine provided the furniture isn't taking up too much of that), then you will LOVE the 9100. It will blow the 7200 out of the water and has all the specs you could ever want for full THX and TrueHD sound.

Just read some of the reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-HT-S9100THX-Channel-Receiver-Speaker/dp/B001AMUFSE/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1266867644&sr=8-5

If you can wait a little while, it will no doubt go down to $899 in the next few weeks. $100 more than you wanted to spend, but you won't have to upgrade ANYTHING for a few extra years.

Harvitz81
02-22-2010, 12:20 PM
If you like the 7200 and have the room for it (16x18 room is fine provided the furniture isn't taking up too much of that), then you will LOVE the 9100. It will blow the 7200 out of the water and has all the specs you could ever want for full THX and TrueHD sound.

Just read some of the reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-HT-S9100THX-Channel-Receiver-Speaker/dp/B001AMUFSE/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1266867644&sr=8-5

If you can wait a little while, it will no doubt go down to $899 in the next few weeks. $100 more than you wanted to spend, but you won't have to upgrade ANYTHING for a few extra years.

The only thing I don't like about the 9100 is that it doesn't come with tower speakers, meaning I would also have to purchase some speaker stands. I was actually thinking of buying the receiver that comes with the 9100 and the speaker package that comes with the 7200.

Also, I know the 9100 says as a selling point that it is full THX and TrueHD sound, but do you think I would really notice the difference by going with the 7200 that isn't full THX?

Beantown Bronco
02-22-2010, 12:24 PM
The only thing I don't like about the 9100 is that it doesn't come with tower speakers, meaning I would also have to purchase some speaker stands. I was actually thinking of buying the receiver that comes with the 9100 and the speaker package that comes with the 7200.

Yup, or you could build some shelves or wall mounts for cheap. In reality, you're not gonna go wrong with either setup. You do get a lot of bang for your buck with these onkyo sets and they always seem to get very high ratings from both the professional and average joe reviewers.

Harvitz81
02-22-2010, 02:06 PM
Yup, or you could build some shelves or wall mounts for cheap. In reality, you're not gonna go wrong with either setup. You do get a lot of bang for your buck with these onkyo sets and they always seem to get very high ratings from both the professional and average joe reviewers.

All the reviews I've read on the Onkyo HTIB systems have very good ratings, so this is what I was thinking as well. I think I'm probably going to go with the 7200 as I found a place that with shipping it is $640. The cheapest I've found the 9100 is $900, so I really don't think it is worth spending $200+ more on. Plus, in 4-5 years when I am more settled (I'm only 28 and am still doing a post-doc....), I'm planning on really shelling out for a high range receiver and speakers. The 7200 looks like it could abide me for that long.

Besides, what is more important right now is to get something with HDMI input and output as my current receiver doesn't have this. Kind of defeats the purpose of having such a nice TV if I can't enjoy blue-ray, PS3, sweet sound to its fullest.

Harvitz81
02-22-2010, 02:35 PM
Any thoughts on speaker wire and banana plugs or should I just opt for some 16 gauge wire and whatever banana plugs on amazon that are the cheapest and have the highest ratings?

Also, since it will have all those HDMI ports, do I need a digital optical cable, or will an HDMI cable take care of that.

Thanks to those who answered.

crazyhorse
02-22-2010, 06:39 PM
www.audiogon.com

Buy used.

Buy a pre-pro and build it up over time. Thats what I did. I'm very happy with my system.

The hdmi cable ought to do the trick.

ghwk
02-22-2010, 07:44 PM
Any thoughts on speaker wire and banana plugs or should I just opt for some 16 gauge wire and whatever banana plugs on amazon that are the cheapest and have the highest ratings?

Also, since it will have all those HDMI ports, do I need a digital optical cable, or will an HDMI cable take care of that.

Thanks to those who answered.

Buy all your cables and wire from monoprice.com and save a bundle. To tell you the truth and I can't see a difference between component and HDMI but less wires is nice.

Harvitz81
02-22-2010, 08:46 PM
www.audiogon.com

Buy used.

Buy a pre-pro and build it up over time. Thats what I did. I'm very happy with my system.

The hdmi cable ought to do the trick.

Any suggestions on a good receiver and speakers? I really don't know much about this, hence the reason I was leaning towards a HTIB option.

Traveler
02-23-2010, 03:39 AM
buy all your cables and wire from monoprice.com and save a bundle.

qft!

Harvitz81
02-23-2010, 07:19 AM
www.audiogon.com

Buy used.

Buy a pre-pro and build it up over time. Thats what I did. I'm very happy with my system.

The hdmi cable ought to do the trick.

Thanks for the site. I'm now looking at the Marantz SR7002 receiver, but if I'm going to go that high on a receiver what kind of speakers would you recommend?

Initially I would probably just purchase some tower speakers and use the rest of what I have right now. Later I could replace the Front, rear and center speakers and sub.

crazyhorse
02-23-2010, 10:33 AM
Thanks for the site. I'm now looking at the Marantz SR7002 receiver, but if I'm going to go that high on a receiver what kind of speakers would you recommend?

Initially I would probably just purchase some tower speakers and use the rest of what I have right now. Later I could replace the Front, rear and center speakers and sub.

For me to recommend speakers would be like me recommending what kind of woman you prefer. Everyone is different.

However, if it were me and I had a limited budget, I would take it a piece at a time. If you are going with quality then you arent going to be able to buy it all at once if you're a poor boy like me. So Get your fronts. Ore better yet, since you're going HT, you should get your center channel figured out. In HT, 80% of your sound will come from this speaker. It should be a substantial speaker. In HT it's more important than your fronts. With that in mind, there is a thing called timber match. If you have mix and match speakers, they will have different sound. Timber is when they all have the same sound characteristic.

The sub is next in importance. It gives your system the backbone. The thump. You dont have to go super expensive here. Especially if you will be going with a tower front in the future. You also dont want to go too big. Some think bigger is better here and its not. If you have a room about 20 by 20 go 12". Biggter than that you might start thinking about 15". Personally I wouldnt go bigger than 12 unless my room was over 600 square feet.

I am liking the Paradigm speakers these days. The reference studio series. I currently have Klipsch R3 fronts and center. They are pretty awesome for movies. In fact most movie theaters use Klipsch speakers. So it would be difficult to do better in recreating the movie theater sound than with these speakers. I might be selling these and going with the Paradigms in the near future.

You will probably really like your Marantz. I have a couple Marantz pieces. I have a BD7004 Blu-ray player and I have 3 Marantz MA700 mono block amps for my front side.

Harvitz81
02-23-2010, 11:11 AM
For me to recommend speakers would be like me recommending what kind of woman you prefer. Everyone is different.

However, if it were me and I had a limited budget, I would take it a piece at a time. If you are going with quality then you arent going to be able to buy it all at once if you're a poor boy like me. So Get your fronts. Ore better yet, since you're going HT, you should get your center channel figured out. In HT, 80% of your sound will come from this speaker. It should be a substantial speaker. In HT it's more important than your fronts. With that in mind, there is a thing called timber match. If you have mix and match speakers, they will have different sound. Timber is when they all have the same sound characteristic.

The sub is next in importance. It gives your system the backbone. The thump. You dont have to go super expensive here. Especially if you will be going with a tower front in the future. You also dont want to go too big. Some think bigger is better here and its not. If you have a room about 20 by 20 go 12". Biggter than that you might start thinking about 15". Personally I wouldnt go bigger than 12 unless my room was over 600 square feet.

I am liking the Paradigm speakers these days. The reference studio series. I currently have Klipsch R3 fronts and center. They are pretty awesome for movies. In fact most movie theaters use Klipsch speakers. So it would be difficult to do better in recreating the movie theater sound than with these speakers. I might be selling these and going with the Paradigms in the near future.

You will probably really like your Marantz. I have a couple Marantz pieces. I have a BD7004 Blu-ray player and I have 3 Marantz MA700 mono block amps for my front side.

I spent the morning at work researching speakers and I think that for the price I really like the av123 ELT525 set. You can get a 5.1 set plus sub for $1200 shipped.

I'm now looking at receivers and I like the marantz 7002, but it looks like it only upconverts with HDMI to 480i/p. I also like the Denon 3808 and Onkyo TX-SR707, HT-RC180, and TX-SR876 all of which upconverts HDMI to 1080i/p. I know that Marantz is probably better quality and not sure if I should let the HDMI thing affect my decision, as I have a ps3 and that upconverts to 1080.

Right now I need to get a new receiver first and then later I will add the speakers.

Anyone own these receivers or have any opinion on them?

crazyhorse
02-23-2010, 11:19 AM
I spent the morning at work researching speakers and I think that for the price I really like the av123 ELT525 set. You can get a 5.1 set plus sub for $1200 shipped.

I'm now looking at receivers and I like the marantz 7002, but it looks like it only upconverts with HDMI to 480i/p. I also like the Denon 3808 and Onkyo TX-SR707, HT-RC180, and TX-SR876 all of which upconverts HDMI to 1080i/p. I know that Marantz is probably better quality and not sure if I should let the HDMI thing affect my decision, as I have a ps3 and that upconverts to 1080.

Right now I need to get a new receiver first and then later I will add the speakers.

Anyone own these receivers or have any opinion on them?


Leave the upconversion to your DVD player.

How much do you have to spend on a pre pro?

Harvitz81
02-23-2010, 12:04 PM
Leave the upconversion to your DVD player.

How much do you have to spend on a pre pro?

I'm actually way over budget on what I want now, so a pre pro will have to wait at least a half year.

What about a directTV HD receiver. I'll have to plug that into the receiver and then receiver to TV. Will I lose the 1080p if I went with the Marantz receiver? I know it sounds like a stupid question, but again I am pretty new to this. I would think that would not be an issue

crazyhorse
02-23-2010, 12:19 PM
I'm actually way over budget on what I want now, so a pre pro will have to wait at least a half year.

What about a directTV HD receiver. I'll have to plug that into the receiver and then receiver to TV. Will I lose the 1080p if I went with the Marantz receiver? I know it sounds like a stupid question, but again I am pretty new to this. I would think that would not be an issue


1st I have to say that 480i is the lowest. So nothing would have to be converted to that. It would have to be down converted. Iff your DTV is 1080 then it will run through the reciever at 1080. It may or may not be converted from 1080i to 1080p. I dont know if its a misprint or perhaps there is something I dont understand. But you dont have all those hdmi imputs for the purpose of degrading the picture. Upconversion is taking a lesser signal and converting it to a cleaner signal. if you feed 1080 in you should get 1080 out.

Harvitz81
02-23-2010, 06:38 PM
1st I have to say that 480i is the lowest. So nothing would have to be converted to that. It would have to be down converted. Iff your DTV is 1080 then it will run through the reciever at 1080. It may or may not be converted from 1080i to 1080p. I dont know if its a misprint or perhaps there is something I dont understand. But you dont have all those hdmi imputs for the purpose of degrading the picture. Upconversion is taking a lesser signal and converting it to a cleaner signal. if you feed 1080 in you should get 1080 out.

I think the 480i was mentioned on the marantz 7002 as in it doesn't upconvert anything. However, I really shouldn't have to worry about that as my DTV is 1080 and ps3 upconverts already.

Basically I have narrowed down the receiver to either the marantz 7002, denon 3808ci, or Onkyo TX-SR876. Based on the reviews it seems that I can't really go wrong with any of these. The marantz seems like it has better sound quality and would be better for music. The denon seems like a jack of all trades and might be better for me if I'm leaning more towards a HT setup. The Onkyo seems to compare well to the denon, but from what I've read it seems like it is much easier to setup and use.

Price wise I actually found the marantz selling for $650 used, while the denon will probably run me near $1000 and the Onkyo $900. This is why I'm leaning towards the marantz right now, but I'm still undecided and will probably over think this anyway.

BroncoBuff
02-23-2010, 07:25 PM
I used to have a very high end system, Denon AVR 2500, KEF speakers, Klipsch subwoofer, etc ...

But now I have this simple Sony: http://www.amazon.com/Sony-BRAVIA-Theater-Technology-DAVHDX277W/dp/B0015HOG0C/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1266981845&sr=1-10

All-in-one, tuner, 5 CD/DVD, HDMI's, subwoofer, etc... maybe I'm just getting older, but I prefer this one to my old "high end" system. Sounds great.

crazyhorse
02-25-2010, 08:05 AM
I used to have a very high end system, Denon AVR 2500, KEF speakers, Klipsch subwoofer, etc ...

But now I have this simple Sony: http://www.amazon.com/Sony-BRAVIA-Theater-Technology-DAVHDX277W/dp/B0015HOG0C/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1266981845&sr=1-10

All-in-one, tuner, 5 CD/DVD, HDMI's, subwoofer, etc... maybe I'm just getting older, but I prefer this one to my old "high end" system. Sounds great.


Old? Perhaps.

Deaf? Indisputable.

Seriously though, you get little return on your money once you achieve class A/B.

My stuff-

Lexicon MV5 pre pro.
Marantz MA700 mono block amps for 5.1
Marantz BD 7004 DVD player
Rotel 1070 CD player
Klipsch R3 fronts
Klipsch rs3 surrounds
Klipsch rc3 center
B&W ASW 700 sub
MIT Terminator 2 bi-wire speaker cables
Sraightwire Encore 2 interconnects
Mitsubishi 65 inch DLP

crazyhorse
02-25-2010, 08:16 AM
I think the 480i was mentioned on the marantz 7002 as in it doesn't upconvert anything. However, I really shouldn't have to worry about that as my DTV is 1080 and ps3 upconverts already.

Basically I have narrowed down the receiver to either the marantz 7002, denon 3808ci, or Onkyo TX-SR876. Based on the reviews it seems that I can't really go wrong with any of these. The marantz seems like it has better sound quality and would be better for music. The denon seems like a jack of all trades and might be better for me if I'm leaning more towards a HT setup. The Onkyo seems to compare well to the denon, but from what I've read it seems like it is much easier to setup and use.

Price wise I actually found the marantz selling for $650 used, while the denon will probably run me near $1000 and the Onkyo $900. This is why I'm leaning towards the marantz right now, but I'm still undecided and will probably over think this anyway.

Denon and Marantz are very similar. Not as familiar with Onkyo. I would decide between the Marantz and Denon based on features because they will have a similar sound.

I strongly recommend going and listening to these brands. Each has its own sound. What rates high with one person you may not like at all. You can go listen without being pressured to buy. Like test driving a car. Just tell them you have a list of brands you want to listen to before you make a decision and they will do everything you want. They will set up any combo for you to listen to.

crazyhorse
02-25-2010, 07:44 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/B-K-AVR-202-Surround-Multizone-AV-Receiver_W0QQitemZ190375457511QQcmdZViewItemQQptZR eceivers_Tuners?hash=item2c5342f2e7


http://cgi.ebay.com/Rocketfish-4-Way-HDMI-Switcher-Switch-Box-RF-HDMI4_W0QQitemZ260556439694QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item3caa5fc08e


http://cgi.ebay.com/Home-Theater-A-V-Receiver-B-K-Components-AVR-505-5-1_W0QQitemZ330407041189QQcmdZViewItemQQptZReceiver s_Tuners?hash=item4cedcb58a5

This combo smokes anything you've listed.

When I say smoke I mean smokes.

The 505 is the better of the two I think.

Harvitz81
02-25-2010, 08:23 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/B-K-AVR-202-Surround-Multizone-AV-Receiver_W0QQitemZ190375457511QQcmdZViewItemQQptZR eceivers_Tuners?hash=item2c5342f2e7


http://cgi.ebay.com/Rocketfish-4-Way-HDMI-Switcher-Switch-Box-RF-HDMI4_W0QQitemZ260556439694QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item3caa5fc08e


http://cgi.ebay.com/Home-Theater-A-V-Receiver-B-K-Components-AVR-505-5-1_W0QQitemZ330407041189QQcmdZViewItemQQptZReceiver s_Tuners?hash=item4cedcb58a5

This combo smokes anything you've listed.

When I say smoke I mean smokes.

The 505 is the better of the two I think.


Those are good receivers, but I honestly want something with HDMI input/output. I know I can get an HDMI switcher, but neither of these receivers have an HDMI i/o. After spending the last couple days reading reviews and not really working, I think I am set on getting a marantz 8002/7002.


I'm going to go into town this weekend and see if I can find a store to demo these, the Denon, and Onkyo. In addition I've read good things about the new Yamaha's and some good stuff about Rotel and NAD.

I've decided that video upconversion from my AVR is not at all important as I'm planning on upgrading all my equipment to the point that it should do this. This is why I'm leaning towards the Marantz's because everything I've read about them indicate superior sound quality over all the other receivers I've listed. Again, I'm going to go and try to test my own ears on it this weekend.

Still going back and forth on speakers. I like the aperions, axioms, av123's just based on reviews. Hopefully this weekend I can test out some Klipsch, Polk, Kef's, B&W's etc.

Ultimately I think my setup in a couple months will be:

Samsung 52lnb750 LCD TV
Marantz 8002 receiver (from what I've read unless you spend a fortune on an amp, the amp in this does really well)
Oppo 983 DVD player/upconverter
Ps3
Speakers from the list above

I think this will be a good start towards my HT...

crazyhorse
02-26-2010, 10:36 AM
Those are good receivers, but I honestly want something with HDMI input/output. I know I can get an HDMI switcher, but neither of these receivers have an HDMI i/o. After spending the last couple days reading reviews and not really working, I think I am set on getting a marantz 8002/7002.


I'm going to go into town this weekend and see if I can find a store to demo these, the Denon, and Onkyo. In addition I've read good things about the new Yamaha's and some good stuff about Rotel and NAD.

I've decided that video upconversion from my AVR is not at all important as I'm planning on upgrading all my equipment to the point that it should do this. This is why I'm leaning towards the Marantz's because everything I've read about them indicate superior sound quality over all the other receivers I've listed. Again, I'm going to go and try to test my own ears on it this weekend.

Still going back and forth on speakers. I like the aperions, axioms, av123's just based on reviews. Hopefully this weekend I can test out some Klipsch, Polk, Kef's, B&W's etc.

Ultimately I think my setup in a couple months will be:

Samsung 52lnb750 LCD TV
Marantz 8002 receiver (from what I've read unless you spend a fortune on an amp, the amp in this does really well)
Oppo 983 DVD player/upconverter
Ps3
Speakers from the list above

I think this will be a good start towards my HT...

The reason I put the hdmi switch on there was due to the fact those units dont have thier own switch. That would solve that issue but would signifigantly upgrade your system over what you are considering.

On a scale of 1-10 the systems you are considering are a 5/6 compared to a 9 that I linked. The difference is where you plug in your hdmi cable.

I would say that Yamaha is well below what you are considering as well.

B&W is way better than most of the speakers you have outlined. KEF makes a good speaker.

I like the Oppo. But I like the new one. However, your ps3 is probably as good as the Oppo. Believe it or not, for bluray ps3 is one of the top players on the market. Not sure where its rated for music. You might consider a CD player or perhaps save that money towards your speakers or whatever.

Now, please dont take this the wrong way, because Im telling you to help you. Some of those speakers are junk you have listed. Im not going to tell you which ones because I want you to listen for yourself. You're going to be investing a pretty good chunk on this stuff.. You better get what you like the 1st time. The way to do that is to listen.

I once had a complete Rotel system. that is some good stuff. A little better than the other stuff you're looking at. But not near as good as the B&K I found for you.

You are exactly right. You will have a pretty nice setup with most of that stuff. But again, watch out on some of those speakers.

Good luck.

p.s.You might find a good deal on a Rotel on that audiogon site I posted.

BroncoBuff
02-27-2010, 02:30 AM
Old? Perhaps.

Deaf? Indisputable.

Two CD players, really? I thought I was the one who was old ::olddude:

BroncoBuff
02-27-2010, 02:51 AM
Old? Perhaps.

Deaf? Indisputable.

I hear ya there.

Seriously though, you get little return on your money once you achieve class A/B.

My stuff-

Lexicon MV5 pre pro.
Marantz MA700 mono block amps for 5.1
Marantz BD 7004 DVD player
Rotel 1070 CD player
Klipsch R3 fronts
Klipsch rs3 surrounds
Klipsch rc3 center
B&W ASW 700 sub
MIT Terminator 2 bi-wire speaker cables
Sraightwire Encore 2 interconnects
Mitsubishi 65 inch DLP

Very impressive ... you're bi-amping with active crossovers obviously ... that's generally great, obviously. But I'm telling you those KEF Model 3 Reference are right there with bi-amp quality, especially with the Klipsch sub. And the Denon AVR2500 was great, a Mosfet-smooth mother. I generally prefer Harmon Kardon, but the Denon was nails.

Not sure what Class A/B means, but I chose this stuff only after many many hours at TheGoodGuys across from Beverly Center in L.A. You wouldda loved that place, they used to be open 24/7.

Never was a fan of Klipsch (except subwoofers), never liked the horn sound on the high end ... horns are great to move sound through a large room, but up close it's kinda brassy.


These are the exact KEFs I had ... though my center channel speaker had just two cones I think.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6070/img1373h.jpg

BroncoBuff
02-27-2010, 02:55 AM
And just btw ... every independent study says the high-end cables add nothing.

Monsters are cool, I had a ton of 'em ... but you don't have to spend nonsense money to get that level.

crazyhorse
02-27-2010, 07:34 AM
And just btw ... every independent study says the high-end cables add nothing.

Monsters are cool, I had a ton of 'em ... but you don't have to spend nonsense money to get that level.

Not my high end study. When you say every independent study, I have to disagree. If every study revealed that, they wouldn't make them. I personally can tune my system using different combinations of copper, silver, and gold. Now the degree of difference and what it's worth to the individual is debatable. But to say there is no difference is incorrect. I've got 100 bucks tied up in speaker cables. I wouldn't spend 1000s like some. But a huink of 16awg OFC isn't the pinnacle of speaker cable either.

Yeah the KEFs are excellent. No doubt about it.

I also am flat on the Klipsch. They are a speaker suited for tube amps. I am in the process of switching to the Paradigm reference Studio 100s with a CC690 center channel and Studio 20s as surrounds.

http://www.paradigm.com/en/reference/fronts-studio-studio100-model-2-13-1-29.paradigm

http://www.paradigm.com/en/reference/centers-studio-studiocc690-model-3-13-1-50.paradigm

http://www.paradigm.com/en/reference/fronts-studio-studio20-model-2-13-1-26.paradigm

There's class A, then there's Class B, then theres in between. Class A being top of the line quality. Harmon Kardon own Lexicon and Mark Levinson. HK is the bottom tier of that line but still quality equipment. If you liked that Denon you would love my Lex. It replaced a B&K which was pretty damn good. I'm a big movie guy and so these pieces are well known for thier HT properties.

Sounds like you had a nice setup, old man. ;)

Harvitz81
02-27-2010, 06:25 PM
The reason I put the hdmi switch on there was due to the fact those units dont have thier own switch. That would solve that issue but would signifigantly upgrade your system over what you are considering.

On a scale of 1-10 the systems you are considering are a 5/6 compared to a 9 that I linked. The difference is where you plug in your hdmi cable.

I would say that Yamaha is well below what you are considering as well.

B&W is way better than most of the speakers you have outlined. KEF makes a good speaker.

I like the Oppo. But I like the new one. However, your ps3 is probably as good as the Oppo. Believe it or not, for bluray ps3 is one of the top players on the market. Not sure where its rated for music. You might consider a CD player or perhaps save that money towards your speakers or whatever.

Now, please dont take this the wrong way, because Im telling you to help you. Some of those speakers are junk you have listed. Im not going to tell you which ones because I want you to listen for yourself. You're going to be investing a pretty good chunk on this stuff.. You better get what you like the 1st time. The way to do that is to listen.

I once had a complete Rotel system. that is some good stuff. A little better than the other stuff you're looking at. But not near as good as the B&K I found for you.

You are exactly right. You will have a pretty nice setup with most of that stuff. But again, watch out on some of those speakers.

Good luck.

p.s.You might find a good deal on a Rotel on that audiogon site I posted.


Don't worry about it - no offense taken. I am really surprised that you think the Marantz is sub quality to the ones you listed. I went and listened to some Marantz, Denon, Harmon Kardon and Rotel systems today and the marantz 7002 and 8002 both sounded superior. There was no B&K to compare.

The ones you listed though have some flaws for me. I don't want to have to deal with an HDMI switch, this is one of the reasons I'm upgrading. I like the fact that I only have to run 1 HDMI to my TV from the receiver and I already have the other 4 inputs taken care of (Oppo, PS3, DTV, and Macmini). If I get more equipment then I'll have to purchase a splitter/switch. I just want to minimize cables as much as possible.

Another thing, the Marantz has audyssey’s MultEQ setup and beings as I kind of a noob to setting these up, I think this will greatly help me get the best of my receiver/speakers. Also, I eventually want to have a 7.1 setup and the AVRs you listed only support 5.1.

I'm still trying to pick out speakers and I have a feeling this is going to take me awhile. Once I have my receiver (leaning strongly towards the marantz 8002 after listening to a number of receivers) I'm going to listen to a number of speakers with this receiver if possible. this will probably take me awhile.

Thanks for all the advice though. Once I started getting into this process I realized what a pain in the ass it is. In the end I just want to be happy with my setup, which I think I will. Of course, everyone who spent a good chunk of change on a setup will think their system is the best (not implying you, but several of my friends are this way - and I'm sure I'll have my own biases after this). What really matters is my own ears and I'm going to take the time and demo as much as possible to find what sounds good to me.

crazyhorse
02-27-2010, 07:08 PM
Don't worry about it - no offense taken. I am really surprised that you think the Marantz is sub quality to the ones you listed. I went and listened to some Marantz, Denon, Harmon Kardon and Rotel systems today and the marantz 7002 and 8002 both sounded superior. There was no B&K to compare.

The ones you listed though have some flaws for me. I don't want to have to deal with an HDMI switch, this is one of the reasons I'm upgrading. I like the fact that I only have to run 1 HDMI to my TV from the receiver and I already have the other 4 inputs taken care of (Oppo, PS3, DTV, and Macmini). If I get more equipment then I'll have to purchase a splitter/switch. I just want to minimize cables as much as possible.

Another thing, the Marantz has audyssey’s MultEQ setup and beings as I kind of a noob to setting these up, I think this will greatly help me get the best of my receiver/speakers. Also, I eventually want to have a 7.1 setup and the AVRs you listed only support 5.1.

I'm still trying to pick out speakers and I have a feeling this is going to take me awhile. Once I have my receiver (leaning strongly towards the marantz 8002 after listening to a number of receivers) I'm going to listen to a number of speakers with this receiver if possible. this will probably take me awhile.

Thanks for all the advice though. Once I started getting into this process I realized what a pain in the ass it is. In the end I just want to be happy with my setup, which I think I will. Of course, everyone who spent a good chunk of change on a setup will think their system is the best (not implying you, but several of my friends are this way - and I'm sure I'll have my own biases after this). What really matters is my own ears and I'm going to take the time and demo as much as possible to find what sounds good to me.

Awsome post. I agree 100%. Every ear is different. Like I said in my original post. For me to tell you what you would like is like me telling you what type of woman is the best. There are certainly different levels of equipment. But in the end, how that equipment sounds to you is most important. The fact you are out testing and listening is the best advice I could have given you. I have been playing with this stuff for years. In fact, since my illness, I have been buying and selling AV equipment online. So I have a fairly experienced ear and knowledge of whats out there. Keep in mind too that when listening to stuff you are not listening to it in your home. It will sound different in your house than it does in the showroom. Also, you should take your own listening material. The CDs and DVDs that these stores carry are generally acoustic which always sounds pretty good. You should hear what you are going to be listening to.

Marantz is one of those companies that has mediocre stuff all the way up to class A stuff. So I am not qualifying Marantz. For example Denon makes one hell of a DVD player. But Im not in love with thier preamps. I have some Marantz stuff so I obviously like it. I simply upgraded to a Lexicon.

Another example. Rotel. I once had a rotel processor and amp. The processor was an older unit as was the amp. The amp was class B. But the amps they are making now are class D. So if you listened to my setup, compared to todays setup, there would be a world of difference. So you cant say Rotel doesn't sound great any more than you can say they do sound great. It depends on what you are listening to.

Not very many DVDs are recorded in 7.1. Also depending on your room, it might be overkill. Just like the HDMI thing. I am like you. I prefer my HDMI switching to go through my pre pro. But It doesnt dictate what HT I buy. That cuts out a a whole world of options for a 2 dollar option. Its like saying you wont buy a car that dont have keyless entry. You are selling yourself short for something that can be overcome with a simple remote controled switch. Whether it's an external swich or internal switch makes no difference. They both do the same thing exactly. but it also can open up another 10X the options you have if you arent stuck on internal switching.

I dont think you will go wrong with the Marantz. Its a good bang for the buck line that you are in. I personally like Marantz pretty well. Thats what I use for amplification on my sytem.

BroncoBuff
02-27-2010, 11:16 PM
Not my high end study. When you say every independent study, I have to disagree. If every study revealed that, they wouldn't make them. I personally can tune my system using different combinations of copper, silver, and gold.

Come on now, everything is digital these days, for almost 20 years now, so data transfer is a black and white issue. I suppose speaker cables can make some difference ... but you can get the same high-gauge cord at Radio Shack for a quarter the price.

Just sayin' ... if guys think they have to spend $45 for a 3-foot RCA to hook up a CD player, they're caught up in the hype.

But my point was more about branding than about the cable itself. Monster strikes insane sweetheart deals to obtain 'THX Certified' and perhaps now 'HDMI Certified' statuses prior to and to the exclusion of other manufacturers. And of course they pay for the privilege. They are a high-end supplier, and they know their customer base. This kind of branding appeals to that base - it's a base that appreciates the 'status' of their product, if not it's importance.

crazyhorse
02-28-2010, 09:19 AM
Come on now, everything is digital these days, for almost 20 years now, so data transfer is a black and white issue. I suppose speaker cables can make some difference ... but you can get the same high-gauge cord at Radio Shack for a quarter the price.

Just sayin' ... if guys think they have to spend $45 for a 3-foot RCA to hook up a CD player, they're caught up in the hype.

But my point was more about branding than about the cable itself. Monster strikes insane sweetheart deals to obtain 'THX Certified' and perhaps now 'HDMI Certified' statuses prior to and to the exclusion of other manufacturers. And of course they pay for the privilege. They are a high-end supplier, and they know their customer base. This kind of branding appeals to that base - it's a base that appreciates the 'status' of their product, if not it's importance.

I can appreciate where you are coming from. You obviously are speaking from a place of inexperience. I persoanlly have travelled hundreds of miles to listen to nothing but cables. I travelled miles to listen to preamps, CD players, DVD players, the whole deal. I personally can tell huge differences in sound. The clarity. More open presentation. Blacker backgounds, separation, the whole bit. Now what a person is willing to pay for theses things is a personal decision. But any ol hunk of cable from Radio Shack isn't good enough here. I have to disagree with you.

I mean, you said it yourself. You prefer your Sony over your high end system. You have no idea what Im talking about.

Harvitz81
02-28-2010, 01:13 PM
Crazy, what kind of speaker cables would you recommend? I don't want to spend more than $100, but am willing to shell out more than just picking up some cheap wire at the hardware store.

I was looking at Dayton Speaker Cables with connected Banana plugs and they were getting pretty good reviews. $35 a pair, so I would need 2 of those and a center channel to wire 5 speakers (center channel was $27). Also need a subwoofer wire.

crazyhorse
02-28-2010, 02:52 PM
Crazy, what kind of speaker cables would you recommend? I don't want to spend more than $100, but am willing to shell out more than just picking up some cheap wire at the hardware store.

I was looking at Dayton Speaker Cables with connected Banana plugs and they were getting pretty good reviews. $35 a pair, so I would need 2 of those and a center channel to wire 5 speakers (center channel was $27). Also need a subwoofer wire.

I would go relatively inexpensive on the sub cable. IMO, because it just doesn't require definition its not as important and you can save your money towards decent front cable. The cable you get is dependent on your system. If your system is one that is treble heavy, then a copper cable will help tone it down a bit. If your system is to laid back and lacks definition then a silver cable will tune it up a bit and add a little definition. With most new systems, there is a burn in time. Most of them dont sound very good until they are broken in. So I would suggest you wait until you get 100 hours or more on your components before you consider cables. Brand is a personal preference. I am partial to MIT.

I also suggest going used. Cables are such that once bought they genarally sell for half thier retail price. So you can get better bang for your dollar there. They also require a burn in time. But if you go used they will ikely be burned in already.

So to make a long story short. I dont recommend any particular cable. But recommend you try some used ones that you can resell for what you have in them. In other words buy used cables so if you dont like them or decide to upgrade, you can get your money back out of them.

Just remember that if they are "bright", or treble heavy, go copper. If you sound too warm or "muddy" go silver.

Hope that helps a little. With Marantz you will likely be looking at copper.

I am using a pair if MIT terminator 2 bi-wire cables I bought off ebay for 110. shipped.

I have some cheapo $2.00 a foot cables on my surrounds. Of course, I bought 50 feet of it, so it wasn't too cheap. My Center is MIT as well.

crazyhorse
03-02-2010, 04:01 PM
Didn't know if you might be interestd. But here is a lightly used unit. You might get a better deal on a brand new one. But thought that given this one is used, the guy might consider an offer for less than he has it listed for.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?miscrcvr&1272729983&/Marantz-SR8002-7.1-channel-thx

Drek
04-03-2010, 02:31 PM
Not my high end study. When you say every independent study, I have to disagree. If every study revealed that, they wouldn't make them.
Monster makes a $250 HDMI cable. That costs more than a 24 karat gold chain of the same length. It definitively and irrefutably gives the exact same signal a radio shack or wal-mart cable gives you. Every study and the entire basis of physical science on earth as we know it says this to be true, yet Monster still makes it.

I can appreciate where you are coming from. You obviously are speaking from a place of inexperience. I persoanlly have travelled hundreds of miles to listen to nothing but cables. I travelled miles to listen to preamps, CD players, DVD players, the whole deal. I personally can tell huge differences in sound. The clarity. More open presentation. Blacker backgounds, separation, the whole bit. Now what a person is willing to pay for theses things is a personal decision. But any ol hunk of cable from Radio Shack isn't good enough here. I have to disagree with you.

I mean, you said it yourself. You prefer your Sony over your high end system. You have no idea what Im talking about.

This from someone who said that every year was different just a few posts up.

I'm not a Sony sound fan at all mind you, but saying its largely a matter of taste and then running down a person's taste?

And its great that you did a lot of driving in your search. Maybe you should consider if all the time you put into it jaded your perspective.

When it comes to digital cable (HDMI or optical) there is absolutely zero difference between a bargain bin cable and a $250 monster cable unless you're running distances of >50'. That is a scientific fact.

With non-digital signal there is some marginally improved quality with better cabling, but even at the most extreme examples the signal degradation is so small that dozens of other factors (ambient noise, slight errors in speaker timing, unnecessarily long cable runs, etc.) do more to degrade sound quality.

To the OP: I think Onkyo is a great first step into the higher end audio world. They make a solid system for the price and with their Audyssey system they make correct speaker timing a breeze. Its a great way to get your feet wet without breaking the bank on something you probably don't have an acute enough ear to pick up at this point.

Doggcow
04-03-2010, 04:02 PM
I bought an Onkyo system a few years ago. Piece of **** :P

BroncoBuff
04-03-2010, 04:29 PM
I bought an Onkyo system a few years ago. Piece of **** :P

You should've bought Monster cables, man!