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View Full Version : Which 2nd year player will make the biggest jump in 2010?


montrose
02-18-2010, 11:45 AM
Positive Thread!:thumbs:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-18-2010, 11:47 AM
Love it.

Honestly, I think it's Ayers. I think he's going to fly out of the gate and have a great 2010 season.

I think Moreno will be pretty good too, but I think that the guy who led all rookies in rushing actually had a pretty good rookie year, that's how much of a moron I am.

I think Ayers has the biggest jump.

I think we might be waiting and hoping for Alphonso in year three, unfortunately.

Baba Booey
02-18-2010, 11:47 AM
I voted for Moreno with the hope that we can improve the interior line and really get him going. My second choice would be McBath. I really liked what I saw from him.

montrose
02-18-2010, 11:49 AM
Probably should answer my own thread. I actually have high hopes for most of these guys. I think Moreno's going to make the greatest impact because his knee will be healthy, the OL (hopefully) better and a system with coaching that better fits his skill set.

With that, I like Smith (suprise!) to make the biggest jump in his second year. The game was coming too fast for him as a rookie but I like his work ethic and mindset, and I do believe that with experience he'll be an absolute ballhawk. I like Smith to make a major impact next season, go Broncos!

bap454
02-18-2010, 11:49 AM
Positive Thread!:thumbs:

I agree, we definately need a positive thread. In reallity theres not a wrong answer. They were all a major disapointments...cant really get anyworse, right? :wiggle:

Dagmar
02-18-2010, 11:50 AM
I think Alphonso proves his worth next year.

Broncosfreak_56
02-18-2010, 11:50 AM
Every week it seemed ayers was close to making a big play. I think he will bring it next year.

ColoradoDarin
02-18-2010, 11:51 AM
Knowshon - because we'll upgrade the line.

montrose
02-18-2010, 11:51 AM
Love it.

Honestly, I think it's Ayers. I think he's going to fly out of the gate and have a great 2010 season.

I think Moreno will be pretty good too, but I think that the guy who led all rookies in rushing actually had a pretty good rookie year, that's how much of a moron I am.

I think Ayers has the biggest jump.

He was playing a lot better to me late in the season, I'm not sure he'll ever be a dominate sack guy but I could see him as a really solid member of the defense. I don't think there was another player on the team who had to adjust as much as he did, not only going from college to the NFL but DE to OLB. He would be my #3 behind Smith and Quinn.

My second choice would be McBath. I really liked what I saw from him.

Dude looks like a stud, that pick against Manning was sweet. I'm not sure he'll be starting this year with Dawk and Hill still here but I think he'll be a key contributor to our defense in some packages and be a starter in the future.

montrose
02-18-2010, 11:53 AM
They were all a major disapointments...cant really get anyworse, right? :wiggle:

Of course it could've been worse. Knowshon could've not led rookies in rushing, Ayers could've been inactive week-to-week, McBath could've looked like crap instead of awesome when he played and Bruton could've not been our best ST player.

Doggcow
02-18-2010, 11:56 AM
Moreno doesn't have tons of room for improvement imo, the Oline does though. Fonzie will be better this year.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-18-2010, 11:56 AM
I agree, we definately need a positive thread. In reallity theres not a wrong answer. They were all a major disapointments...cant really get anyworse, right? :wiggle:

Ahem:

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/42/427086.jpg

I respectfully disagree.

Beantown Bronco
02-18-2010, 12:07 PM
This is a great poll IMO. All of these guys, with the exception of perhaps Moreno, have the potential to do FAR more than they did this past season. And some guys in particular, like Quinn and McKinley, could be asked to do quite a bit this year if the guys ahead of them (namely Schef and Marshall) move on in trades.

The favorites are probably Smith and Ayers, just because of where they were selected in the draft and what is expected of them compared to the other guys. I'll go with Ayers, mostly because of what I and some others saw of him this season when it appeared that often he was just a half step slower than Dumervil in getting to the QB. If he can simply tweak his game a little bit and if Doom stays healthy, he could find himself on the receiving end of those sacks.

jhat01
02-18-2010, 12:13 PM
I voted for Smith. I'm hoping he's going to be our nickel guy. I think Ayers improves as well, but like Montrose, I don't know if he's gona be a big time sack guy. Knowshon had a good year. I think he will be conditioned for the "grind" a lot better next year. The kid took a pounding and played through several dings. YOu gotta love his work ethic.

The ST contributions we got from the safeties were very, very good and they got a chance to learn behind one of the best. I can't wait!

Rabb
02-18-2010, 12:20 PM
I think Moreno is going to play with a chip on his shoulder this year, and improve some of the little things that will make a big change

ColoradoBuff
02-18-2010, 12:31 PM
I think Moreno will make the biggest step with McD moving to a power running attack. I look for a big year next year from Moreno. But I also see Ayers and Smith making considerable contributions!

Mogulseeker
02-18-2010, 12:36 PM
Ayers - he has nowhere to go but up.

gyldenlove
02-18-2010, 12:38 PM
Ayers and it won't even be close.

Defensive linemen and pass rushers always take a little longer to get into the league than many other positions and Ayers as has been said already was just lacking half a step or a step on many occasions. I think with another year, good coaching by Wink and some more mental reps in front of the video he should be ready to really bust out and do some damage.

You could say Al Smith based on his woeful performance in 09, it can only go one way right? but I think in terms of performance Ayers will outperform Smith by miles.

BroncoBuff
02-18-2010, 12:38 PM
Ayers - he has nowhere to go but up.

Along those lines, I voted Quinn. With zero catches 2009, there's also nowhere to go but up.

baja
02-18-2010, 12:47 PM
"Improve the most" is the key here.

I like McBath here because he is starting at zero and we will need a safety to step up next year.

Hamrob
02-18-2010, 12:50 PM
I hope they all do. We spent alot on those first 5 guys, so they have to pay off. They were all rookies and did pretty well. Even Quinn did o.k. on special teams. And even though I've been tough on Smith...the kid has the talent...it's just putting it all together on the field.

I think it will be Moreno. He was a stud in college and really didn't know what he was getting himself in to. Now he's experienced it. I say he rushes for 1300+yds and has a 4.5yd per carry season with 10 TD's.

Hamrob
02-18-2010, 12:54 PM
I guess the main positive I see right now...is that all 5 of our first choices last year...still have a shot at being good.

Certainly couldn't say that about Moss and/or who was the guy selected after him?

broncosteven
02-18-2010, 12:58 PM
This is a great poll IMO. All of these guys, with the exception of perhaps Moreno, have the potential to do FAR more than they did this past season. And some guys in particular, like Quinn and McKinley, could be asked to do quite a bit this year if the guys ahead of them (namely Schef and Marshall) move on in trades.

The favorites are probably Smith and Ayers, just because of where they were selected in the draft and what is expected of them compared to the other guys. I'll go with Ayers, mostly because of what I and some others saw of him this season when it appeared that often he was just a half step slower than Dumervil in getting to the QB. If he can simply tweak his game a little bit and if Doom stays healthy, he could find himself on the receiving end of those sacks.

I am hoping it is Ayers, I didn't see the promise others here did in him last year but I hope he can be a force in some aspect of the D.

BTW is Ayers supposed to be a pass rusher or run stopper or jack of all trades?

I couldn't get a read on what this guy was good at because he made no impact and it is hard to see on TV.

outdoor_miner
02-18-2010, 01:08 PM
Good thread. I said Knowshon, although it was tough between he and Ayers. Yes - he did pretty good his first year. BUT - I'm hopeful that next year, we'll all be thinking: "THAT'S why we spent the #12 pick on a running back." Comparing his college tape to what I saw on the field, I think he hasn't come close to performing at the level he can. At least - I'm keeping my fingers crossed. :)

broncowill
02-18-2010, 01:08 PM
Well Smith Ayers and Moreno will probably be the only ones playing enough to do anything but I'll go with Ayers

Hamrob
02-18-2010, 01:11 PM
I am hoping it is Ayers, I didn't see the promise others here did in him last year but I hope he can be a force in some aspect of the D.

BTW is Ayers supposed to be a pass rusher or run stopper or jack of all trades?

I couldn't get a read on what this guy was good at because he made no impact and it is hard to see on TV.I think the problem we face with Ayers...is the fact that he's a Rush DE.

Truly, I don't think he has the speed to be an every-down OLB. He's the perfect DE in a 4-3. I couldn't believe we drafted him. He's got talent...just not 3-4 talent (IMO).

colonelbeef
02-18-2010, 01:18 PM
Bruton or McBath, if healthy. outside shot that Ayers puts it together.

Hamrob
02-18-2010, 01:20 PM
By the way...I selected "Other" on the poll. I'm thinking maybe it will be Olson at Guard. He's a big kid that we spent a 4th round pick on. And Guard is a huge need for us.

UberBroncoMan
02-18-2010, 01:29 PM
Robert Ayers = 0 sacks + 1 FR.

He will make the biggest jump because if he can't improve on that...

McBath was one of our most impressive rookies, if not the most and he wasn't even a starter. Saw a lot of good stuff out of him.

BroncoBuff
02-18-2010, 01:36 PM
Robert Ayers = 0 sacks + 1 FR.

If we're waiting for Ayers to be a sack guy, it's probably gonna be a long wait. He had just 3 sacks as a senior, and 2 were against Vanderbilt .... and just 9 his entire college career.

Maybe he'll do better in a 3-4 defense though.

Fusionfrontman
02-18-2010, 05:13 PM
Ayers. Can't say Moreno unless he rushes for 1700 yards and 15 TD. I'd expect him to rush for 1,000-1,200 yards with 7-10 TD. That's not much of an improvement from last years 900 yards and 5 TD or so.
I like Moreno a lot though, Just want to put that out there. But I think Ayers with Smith being second. However, Ayers will be more of a playmaker and have more 'sexy' stats.
I like someon's opbservation about Ayers last year, regarding him being inposition to make a lot of plays just not getting therer quick enough or finishing the deal (or Elvis being faster to the QB).

RhymesayersDU
02-18-2010, 05:24 PM
Well, considering all these players have nowhere to go but up, they'll all hopefully make a big jump.

misturanderson
02-18-2010, 05:27 PM
I voted Ayers, but if one of the safeties gets hurt for an extended period of time next year it will almost certainly be McBath (he would be starting already if he wasn't playing behind two very good players). Ayers will have moved on in his transition from DT/DE to OLB in the 3-4 and will be in there making the plays that he was a half step too slow to make because he was thinking about it too much last year.

I don't see Smith taking time away from Bailey or Goodman, so I have a hard time believing that he'll have enough of an impact to be most improved.

Kaylore
02-18-2010, 05:47 PM
I say our safeties. They look good.

broncosteven
02-18-2010, 06:02 PM
...
I like someon's opbservation about Ayers last year, regarding him being inposition to make a lot of plays just not getting therer quick enough or finishing the deal (or Elvis being faster to the QB).

I still think Ayers was out of position and not making the right reads from the snap, that may have been why he was always chasing the play. I just want him not to be a liability like Gold was at times.

Drek
02-18-2010, 06:21 PM
The safeties will be playing behind Dawkins and Hill for another season so they'll have a hard time making a big impact.

Quinn will be the #2 behind Graham, so it'll be tough for him as well.

Ayers is in excellent position, but he's very raw and will need a lot of teaching to have a big season.

My personal bet is Moreno. If he doesn't screw up a knee ligament again like the MCL in pre-season last year he'll show a good bit more speed, know the offense better, and we'll almost definitely give him a better OL. Should all that come to pass he could very possibly be a top 5 back in the entire league.

Of the 2009 class I expect to see the following breakout seasons:
2010 - Moreno establishes himself as a very good to great starter, Ayers takes the majority of the OLB snaps opposite Doom, Alphonso Smith takes over the nickel CB job.

2011 - Ayers breaks out as a very good to great starter, Smith takes over the #2 CB job as a good starter, and Darcel McBath replaces either Dawkins or Hill in the starting lineup.

2012 - Bruton gets his chance to establish himself as an every down starter replacing the other safety.

TonyR
02-18-2010, 06:22 PM
I'm going to go with Ayers. If I recall correctly he said that in three years Ayers would be the best defensive player in this draft class so he knew there would be some developmental hurdles.

KipCorrington25
02-18-2010, 07:06 PM
Ugh, that list is so depressing...

DenverBrit
02-18-2010, 07:26 PM
I'll go with Ayers, he showed flashes while playing a new position.

2nd year can be a charm.

TheReverend
02-18-2010, 07:44 PM
Went with Ayers because I think he has the most ROOM to jump out of him, Knowshon and McBath. Those two had solid seasons as rookies.

azbroncfan
02-18-2010, 07:58 PM
Ayers-They are going to finally "turn the DL loose."

broncogary
02-18-2010, 08:24 PM
Quinn will be the #2 behind Graham, so it'll be tough for him as well.



He should see a lot more playing time than last year. That's why I picked him.

Broncoman13
02-19-2010, 04:48 AM
Love it.

Honestly, I think it's Ayers. I think he's going to fly out of the gate and have a great 2010 season.

I think Moreno will be pretty good too, but I think that the guy who led all rookies in rushing actually had a pretty good rookie year, that's how much of a moron I am.

I think Ayers has the biggest jump.

I think we might be waiting and hoping for Alphonso in year three, unfortunately.


I would have voted for both Ayers and Moreno if there were multi votes. I think both will be much improved. But I gave the edge to Moreno mainly b/c I think he'll focus on nothing but football (no prep for combines or pro days or any other BS this offseason). I fully expect Knowshon to show up to camp in the 220-225lb range and strong as ever. I think his knee never really recovered last year and I think the season really took it's toll on his rookie body last year. He will be stronger, quicker, faster, and smarter in year two. Couple that with the fact that we will most likely make some changes to the OLine to both improve the run game and sustain drives (converting those third and shorts) and I think you'll see him have better success and more opportunity with those conversions. Would be very surprised if he didn't have a 1300 yard season.

Ayers, McBath and Alphonso Smith should all be improved as well. Not sure how much Bruton can improve over his rookie season. IMO, he was a pro-bowl caliber ST Ace as a rookie. Another performance like last year's and he'll be in the pro-bowl for sure.

Good thread Raj ;D

Drek
02-19-2010, 07:55 AM
He should see a lot more playing time than last year. That's why I picked him.

He should, but he'll still be primarily used in two TE sets where we're focused more on power running, which means he'll be blocking.

he's an impressive physical athlete and our TE coach last year (now OL coach) has a good track record of turning physically gifted guys like him into very good TEs. But I feel like he's in the same boat as Ayers. Next year is a step in the right direction, year three is when they have the chance to really break out.

Mediator12
02-19-2010, 08:38 AM
I just watched some old film of Smith at Wake when I was Watching Film on Brandon Ghee, just to compare them. Smith was a freaking Playmaker at Wake with a 21 INTS, 9 sacks, 23.5 tackles behind the line of scrimmage and eight forced fumbles for his career. He also could cover outside pretty damn well, but they did not use him in the slot very much, which could be why he did not play well there this past season.

This kid has a ton of natural talent to play CB, and it was not there last year for some reason. The real reason may be playing inside in so much space with a lot of Zone responsibilities. That was not why he was such a playmaker at Wake. He was a much better outside CB that really recognized routes and anticipated throws. I think he got lost inside trying to cover quicker and smarter players across zones with much more complicated route patterns game to game.

I am not sure how much he learned from that, but if he did, he can be a weapon there. The kid can blitz, makes solid tackles behind the LOS, and can cover. I just hope he learns quickly and can make the adjustments needed to play the slot at this level. I know he can play outside at this level, but that is not where they need him right now.

So, I'll take a chance on him and say he will break out this year. He was a playmaker outside in college, and I think he works hard enough to try and be one in the slot this year too.

montrose
02-19-2010, 10:08 AM
I just watched some old film of Smith at Wake when I was Watching Film on Brandon Ghee, just to compare them. Smith was a freaking Playmaker at Wake with a 21 INTS, 9 sacks, 23.5 tackles behind the line of scrimmage and eight forced fumbles for his career. He also could cover outside pretty damn well, but they did not use him in the slot very much, which could be why he did not play well there this past season.

This kid has a ton of natural talent to play CB, and it was not there last year for some reason. The real reason may be playing inside in so much space with a lot of Zone responsibilities. That was not why he was such a playmaker at Wake. He was a much better outside CB that really recognized routes and anticipated throws. I think he got lost inside trying to cover quicker and smarter players across zones with much more complicated route patterns game to game.

I am not sure how much he learned from that, but if he did, he can be a weapon there. The kid can blitz, makes solid tackles behind the LOS, and can cover. I just hope he learns quickly and can make the adjustments needed to play the slot at this level. I know he can play outside at this level, but that is not where they need him right now.

So, I'll take a chance on him and say he will break out this year. He was a playmaker outside in college, and I think he works hard enough to try and be one in the slot this year too.

Great post!

misturanderson
02-19-2010, 11:38 AM
I just watched some old film of Smith at Wake when I was Watching Film on Brandon Ghee, just to compare them. Smith was a freaking Playmaker at Wake with a 21 INTS, 9 sacks, 23.5 tackles behind the line of scrimmage and eight forced fumbles for his career. He also could cover outside pretty damn well, but they did not use him in the slot very much, which could be why he did not play well there this past season.

This kid has a ton of natural talent to play CB, and it was not there last year for some reason. The real reason may be playing inside in so much space with a lot of Zone responsibilities. That was not why he was such a playmaker at Wake. He was a much better outside CB that really recognized routes and anticipated throws. I think he got lost inside trying to cover quicker and smarter players across zones with much more complicated route patterns game to game.

I am not sure how much he learned from that, but if he did, he can be a weapon there. The kid can blitz, makes solid tackles behind the LOS, and can cover. I just hope he learns quickly and can make the adjustments needed to play the slot at this level. I know he can play outside at this level, but that is not where they need him right now.

So, I'll take a chance on him and say he will break out this year. He was a playmaker outside in college, and I think he works hard enough to try and be one in the slot this year too.

And this is exactly why it is so completely ridiculous how much bitching there has been about picking him up. Everyone seems to want to complain as if he did nothing to justify a high pick in the draft, when he actually went exactly where he was slotted to go and would have been taken much higher if he were 2 inches taller than he is.

He was a playmaker in college and he had some good plays in the first 2 games and then he was injured and never seemed to recover. I fully expect him to become a good starter within the next couple years.

Bigdawg26
02-19-2010, 08:29 PM
Ayers because if he gets ONE sack he doubled his impact!

strafen
02-19-2010, 10:40 PM
Darcel McBath should have a great year.
Depending on the defense changes next year, I would hope Ayers finds a spot on the rotation that best fits his skills...

_Oro_
02-20-2010, 07:08 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but Ayers job in the defense is not about getting sacks. I have the impression that any sacks he does get will be pure gravy. Even if he has a stellar year next year in terms of his job in the defense, I'm sure some will be calling for his head because he only got .5 sacks.

broncswin
02-20-2010, 07:35 AM
I just watched some old film of Smith at Wake when I was Watching Film on Brandon Ghee, just to compare them. Smith was a freaking Playmaker at Wake with a 21 INTS, 9 sacks, 23.5 tackles behind the line of scrimmage and eight forced fumbles for his career. He also could cover outside pretty damn well, but they did not use him in the slot very much, which could be why he did not play well there this past season.

This kid has a ton of natural talent to play CB, and it was not there last year for some reason. The real reason may be playing inside in so much space with a lot of Zone responsibilities. That was not why he was such a playmaker at Wake. He was a much better outside CB that really recognized routes and anticipated throws. I think he got lost inside trying to cover quicker and smarter players across zones with much more complicated route patterns game to game.

I am not sure how much he learned from that, but if he did, he can be a weapon there. The kid can blitz, makes solid tackles behind the LOS, and can cover. I just hope he learns quickly and can make the adjustments needed to play the slot at this level. I know he can play outside at this level, but that is not where they need him right now.

So, I'll take a chance on him and say he will break out this year. He was a playmaker outside in college, and I think he works hard enough to try and be one in the slot this year too.


That is a great take...this guy thrives on the one on one situations...if he gets a shot at the CB spot...I think he will thrive...plus with one year under his belt in the "zone position" he will quickly improve...I see this guy watching a lot more film and working harder...he was a stud in college, because of raw ability...he now sees that he has to put a lot more work into his game at this level...I for one, am rooting for him:strong:

Mediator12
02-20-2010, 08:21 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but Ayers job in the defense is not about getting sacks. I have the impression that any sacks he does get will be pure gravy. Even if he has a stellar year next year in terms of his job in the defense, I'm sure some will be calling for his head because he only got .5 sacks.

OK, I will correct you ;D

His job is to be a pass rusher and pressure the QB. He definitely is not there to be in coverage. However, its about getting pressure more than sacks alone. Some people here seem to think he had some pressures this year, but I did not see enough to call them QB Pressures. What he needs to do is refine his technique and get off from the stand up and three point stance.

He has the talent, he just needs to learn to apply it better than he did last season. He never played OLB in a 3-4 AND he made the jump from College last year. Some people get it faster than others, like Damarcus Ware. Others, take more time to adjust. Since it took Ayers several years to progress @ TEN to become a standout Senior player, it holds merit that it might take him several years in the NFL to become a standout player. His LTI, or Length To Impact, might be a little longer than usual for a player of his talent. That is just the way it is sometimes.

Now, the player that no one is talking about is Jarvis Moss. I wonder where he ends up next year?

oubronco
02-20-2010, 08:25 AM
Ayers doesn't go all out on every play and he gives up on plays too early for where he was drafted you would think he would know how to "Bring it"

HEAV
02-20-2010, 09:23 AM
Orton? (He's going to be in his second year in the system) But your thread is about rookie players from 09, so I'm going with Knowshon.

strafen
02-20-2010, 09:46 AM
Ayers doesn't go all out on every play and he gives up on plays too early for where he was drafted you would think he would know how to "Bring it"To say last year's draft wasn't one of our best ones is an understatement.
That said, Ayers could still be put in a position to show his worth.
I never got a good feel for what they wanted to do with him.
There was some talks about having him play both LB and DL. I'm not sure what position he saw the most action as.

He was pretty much the cornerstone of the draft from the defensive perspective. I would like to see him be an impact player this upcoming season...

~Crash~
02-20-2010, 10:17 AM
Ahem:

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/42/427086.jpg

I respectfully disagree.

hate to tell you moss did get some playing time I still have some hope ...not much but I still hope..

~Crash~
02-20-2010, 10:30 AM
I think Ayers get no love but I think for the most part was still not a bad rookie season . He really never had much of a College Carrier .


My Dark horse I know I am kind of crazy here but I watched Richard Quinn some and I think the guy looks better than his stats show. I think he can be damn good at catching the football.

fontaine
02-25-2010, 02:45 AM
OK, I will correct you ;D

His job is to be a pass rusher and pressure the QB. He definitely is not there to be in coverage. However, its about getting pressure more than sacks alone. Some people here seem to think he had some pressures this year, but I did not see enough to call them QB Pressures. What he needs to do is refine his technique and get off from the stand up and three point stance.

He has the talent, he just needs to learn to apply it better than he did last season. He never played OLB in a 3-4 AND he made the jump from College last year. Some people get it faster than others, like Damarcus Ware. Others, take more time to adjust. Since it took Ayers several years to progress @ TEN to become a standout Senior player, it holds merit that it might take him several years in the NFL to become a standout player. His LTI, or Length To Impact, might be a little longer than usual for a player of his talent. That is just the way it is sometimes.

That's pretty much the way I saw it too.

Ayers was lined up both in three/four point stances last year and he WAS there to rush the QB because in a lot of the early games we were ahead and the front 7 was allowed to attack. Nolan didn't really play a contain Defense anyway so Ayers was there to get after the QB which he did very poorly.

His burst off the snap was slow and inconsistent, he gave up on plays and didn't really seem all that interested. And this too with Dumervil getting a lot of attention on the other side.

I agree with Med that it's going to take a lot of time for this kid to develop at this stage. At least two more years which in reality is pretty disapointing considering where he was drafted. You expect 2nd day players to take 3/4 years to develop but expect more of an impact from high first rounders.

Mediator12
02-25-2010, 05:52 AM
That's pretty much the way I saw it too.

Ayers was lined up both in three/four point stances last year and he WAS there to rush the QB because in a lot of the early games we were ahead and the front 7 was allowed to attack. Nolan didn't really play a contain Defense anyway so Ayers was there to get after the QB which he did very poorly.

His burst off the snap was slow and inconsistent, he gave up on plays and didn't really seem all that interested. And this too with Dumervil getting a lot of attention on the other side.

I agree with Med that it's going to take a lot of time for this kid to develop at this stage. At least two more years which in reality is pretty disapointing considering where he was drafted. You expect 2nd day players to take 3/4 years to develop but expect more of an impact from high first rounders.

I think LTI is the most important part of investing a draft pick. A first rounder, outside of a QB, should be challenging to start by the end of their rookie season. A second rounder by training camp of year 2. A third rounder, by the middle of year 2. Rounds 4-7 players should be scheme specific players that can challenge to play by the end of year 2 based on the players in front of them.

Unfortunately, too many teams pick players early based on the physical tools and think they can "coach Them up" to reach their potential in the NFL. If they struggled mentally in college, the only people who get better in the NFL are the ones who clawed to get there. People like Clay Matthews who had to start as a walk on and then excel at ST's to even get a sniff of playing LB on defense. It is extremely rare to see players develop mentally at the NFL level, without witnessing them progress on film for years in college.

Player development is a skillset in 2 ways. First, its a player skillset. The player has to appreciate the process of getting better. Second, its a coaching skillset. Coaches have to be able to reach, teach, encourage, and cajole players based on how they learn. Some do it much better than others. There are great X's and O's coaches in the NFL, but very few great X's and O's who can also develop talent at the same time.

Unfortunately, the trend is to get younger less skilled talent developing coaches in the NFL right now. Guys like Howard Mudd and Tom Moore in INDY are leaving the game due to economics of their pensions. These guys routinely put average players into a system and coached them up to play with a great QB. It will be interesting to see how certain teams react to losing great developmental coaches that have kept them in the race year in and year out with new players.

dbfan21
02-25-2010, 06:51 AM
I agree with many of the posts regarding Ayers. He showed flashes of brilliance as the season kept going. With more time in the weight room, film room and on the practice field, his game will get substantially better. He will also benefit from Doom's presence on the other side.

If we can get the o-line fixed, I can see Moreno having a pretty big year too if he studies film and tweaks his running style (I think he took too long to hit the hole when it was there).

Excellent thread, Montrose!

TonyR
02-25-2010, 06:53 AM
I agree with Med that it's going to take a lot of time for this kid to develop at this stage. At least two more years which in reality is pretty disapointing considering where he was drafted. You expect 2nd day players to take 3/4 years to develop but expect more of an impact from high first rounders.

As has been stated countless times in numerous threads Mike Mayock stated before the draft something to the effect that Ayers would be the best defensive player in that draft in two to three years. The implications were that it would take some time for him to develop. Let's hope he's right. Patience.

_Oro_
02-25-2010, 06:57 AM
So basically what I was talking about were the Martindale quotes earlier in the year. They can be found in this article

ENGLEWOOD – Outside linebacker Robert Ayers is coming along just fine.
At first glance, the Denver Broncos (http://www.gazette.com/sections/broncos/)’ first-round pick hasn’t lived up to expectations, with only one tackle and no other stats through three games. But linebackers coach Don Martindale explained that Ayers, who has played in the Broncos’ nickel defense on passing downs, has done plenty that doesn’t show up in the stat sheet and is making a normal progression for a rookie.
“He’s doing a lot of good things in our team defensive scheme that people don’t see and recognize,” Martindale said.
Martindale offered an example: Against the Browns, Ayers’ responsibility on certain plays was to “set the edge,” or keep the quarterback contained in the pocket. Ayers held his ground against Cleveland Pro Bowl left tackle Joe Thomas. Dumervil benefited with a four-sack day.
“That was able to free up Elvis Dumervil, along with everybody else,” Martindale said. “If he doesn’t play his role in that pass rush, in that situation, Brady Quinn is able to get out of the pocket. There’s things like that, times that we ask him to do a lot of different things other than just rush the passer or setting the edge of the defense. I’m really excited about him.”
The Broncos admit Ayers isn’t a finished product. He’s still learning the nuances of the defense and of playing outside linebacker after being primarily a defensive end in college. Martindale said Ayers is working in a positive direction toward becoming a full-time starter, but all of Denver’s starting linebackers ahead of him are playing well.
The team is fine with how Ayers has fared so far as a rookie.
“I have nothing but good things to say about Robert Ayers,” Martindale said. “I think he’s right on schedule.”


http://www.gazette.com/sports/ayers-63053-broncos-englewood.html

I especially like the "He's doing a lot of things people don't see." :)

oubronco
02-25-2010, 06:58 AM
As has been stated countless times in numerous threads Mike Mayock stated before the draft something to the effect that Ayers would be the best defensive player in that draft in two to three years. The implications were that it would take some time for him to develop. Let's hope he's right. Patience.

Grasshopper has no patience

Houshyamama
02-25-2010, 10:24 AM
Darcel Mcbath. He was playing lights out at the end of last season.

montrose
06-13-2010, 10:04 PM
Anybody feeling differently?

strafen
06-13-2010, 10:08 PM
I agree, we definately need a positive thread. In reallity theres not a wrong answer. They were all a major disapointments...cant really get anyworse, right? :wiggle:There's nothing past rock bottom! :D

TheReverend
06-14-2010, 12:20 AM
Anybody feeling differently?

No. I still don't Smith or Bruton will ever develop into anything special. My favorite, McBath, doesn't really have that much room after a great rookie outting. Ayers was/is still the best opportunity to make the most improvement, imo.

Mediator12
06-14-2010, 09:12 AM
Anybody feeling differently?

No, but I still want to see Jarvis Moss play in this system. Finally, he seems to be getting it mentally and hopefully his body has developed into a more physical setup and he can take a pounding. This kid was always a 2-3 year project coming out, but he has some serious natural pass rush ability and athleticism.

bronco militia
06-14-2010, 09:19 AM
Now, the player that no one is talking about is Jarvis Moss. I wonder where he ends up next year?

:thumbsup:

baja
06-14-2010, 09:28 AM
I think if Jarvis Moss was a bust for McD than he would have traded him to Shanny who is copying Josh on the 3-4 D and is the guy that drafted him and knows Moss would be a even better fit for that new D in Wash.

I know Moss is not a second year player but he did loose two years. One recovering from health issues and another learning a new position. I believe he will be the most improved Bronco on D this season.

KM will be the most improved O player.

Orton will surprise many here too.

Ambiguous
06-14-2010, 09:47 AM
Ayers because if he gets ONE sack he doubled his impact!

Did he get half a sack last season? Last I checked, 0 + 0 = 0 - he has the chance to double his production by doing nothing!