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View Full Version : If the Cavaliers get Amare', will they beat the Lakers for the title?


ZONA
02-15-2010, 10:46 PM
Looks more and more like this deal to send Amare to Cleveland is going to go through. With James, Shaq and now Amare, are they set to dethrone the Lakeshow?

But apparently the Miami Heat are really pushing to make a deal to acquire Stoudemire. With Wade and Amare', the Heat could really make a serious push in the playoffs.

I think the Suns still prefer the Sixers deal where they would get Iguadala but the Sixers still haven't totally commited to that deal. Their time is running out. The Suns are going to deal Amare and only days away from the deadline, they probably won't wait till the last minute when things could just fall apart.

So, if Amare goes to the Heat or the Calvs, would that be enough to take the Lakers down? I certainly think if the Calves get Amare, they are the clear favorite in the East and could indeed take out the Lakers. If the Heat landed Amare, I think that puts them right there with Boston and Cleveland in the hunt for the top seed in the East.

Wow, that would be one hell of a series and I think Cleveland would come out on top.

SoCalBronco
02-15-2010, 10:48 PM
Go anyone not named the Lakers!

azbroncfan
02-15-2010, 10:52 PM
Probably not. Amare will disrupt the chemistry they have and is one demensional. As much as he helps you on Offense he kills your team defensively and rebounding. I say no he doesn't but I hate the lakers so I hope so.

watermock
02-15-2010, 10:56 PM
He's a ball hog and poor defensively.

I hope he Lakers get him, honestly.

DBroncos4life
02-15-2010, 11:16 PM
He is the only guy that I wouldn't be upset with trading J.J Hickson for. I don't think things really would change that much other then teams would have to respect the 4 position for the Cavs.

azbroncfan
02-15-2010, 11:23 PM
He is the only guy that I wouldn't be upset with trading J.J Hickson for. I don't think things really would change that much other then teams would have to respect the 4 position for the Cavs.

His defensive efforts and rebounding is atrocious at times. There is a reason the SUNS are moving him. He can score though but the problem is the guy he is guarding will score a lot more than normal.

BroncoMan4ever
02-15-2010, 11:26 PM
don't count out the Nuggets. they have played a good chunk of this season without either Melo or Billups and continued playing at a very high level. now add in that they are really pushing to acquire Tyrus Thomas.

if any of those deals do go through though. the talent gap between Lakers and everyone else gets a hell of a lot smaller.

DBroncos4life
02-15-2010, 11:32 PM
His defensive efforts and rebounding is atrocious at times. There is a reason the SUNS are moving him. He can score though but the problem is the guy he is guarding will score a lot more than normal.

lol, Hickson isn't a all-star defender either. He has upside and moves well without the ball but he doesn't have much of a jump shot yet. I'm sure there are a number of reasons why the Suns are trying to move him. Getting something when they know he isn't going to resign with them is on top of that list. Amare Stoudemire might be that great at D, who knows maybe he will improve under Brown but I can tell you this it does give someone the Cavs can count on to score when James is on the bench. The Cavs blow big leads when James rests.

DBroncos4life
02-15-2010, 11:49 PM
What are the Heat going to give then? I heard the Suns didn't want any part of Michael Beasley but I guess that has changed now. I think the 76ers would be fools to trade Andre Iguodala for a guy that won't resign with them. Corey Maggette's name is now being rumored to the Cavaliers for Hickson.

azbroncfan
02-15-2010, 11:53 PM
lol, Hickson isn't a all-star defender either. He has upside and moves well without the ball but he doesn't have much of a jump shot yet. I'm sure there are a number of reasons why the Suns are trying to move him. Getting something when they know he isn't going to resign with them is on top of that list. Amare Stoudemire might be that great at D, who knows maybe he will improve under Brown but I can tell you this it does give someone the Cavs can count on to score when James is on the bench. The Cavs blow big leads when James rests.

You sound like a SUNS fan from a few years ago defending his piss poor play on one side of the court. SUNS have shopped him more than this year. He should help Cleveland but it has the potential to destroy their chemistry too.

DBroncos4life
02-16-2010, 12:02 AM
You sound like a SUNS fan from a few years ago defending his piss poor play on one side of the court. SUNS have shopped him more than this year. He should help Cleveland but it has the potential to destroy their chemistry too.

I'm not defending his play at all. I simply saying that Hickson is raw and defense isn't always that great either. If Amare is a step down on D then so be it. The Cavs are getting 8.4 points per game from Anderson Varejao and 7.4 from Hickson. Amare would improve the scoring from the PF. Also Anderson Varejao disappeared in the playoffs last year. I don't think the Cavs want to risk something like that again. As for the chemistry, I'm aware of that. I have said many times in the NBA thread that I would rather the Cavs not trade anyone, but if we did I would prefer it be for Amare then Jamison.

DBroncos4life
02-16-2010, 12:36 AM
I feel bad for the Cavs front office. The pressure they must be under this season must be unreal.

24champ
02-16-2010, 12:56 AM
Amare is overrated. I don't see his addition to the east impacting the Lakers. He's been with Shaq and Nash (a two time MVP) and they didn't accomplish jack squat.

extralife
02-16-2010, 01:02 AM
It doesn't matter whether they get Amare or not. He doesn't even address the biggest weakness any team has against LA, which is post defense and rebounding, because he can't defend or rebound. Cleveland wins a title when Lebron feels like kicking into overdrive. He's never done that. He plays hard, works hard, whatever, but he doesn't have that edge yet, and they won't win until he has it because that team is garbage. when he gets that edge they will win because he is a transcendent athlete.

OBF1
02-16-2010, 01:56 AM
He's a ball hog and poor defensively.

I hope he Lakers get him, honestly.

Once again you prove yourself an idiot :thumbsup:

Punisher
02-16-2010, 04:47 AM
Nope GO LAKERS

RhymesayersDU
02-16-2010, 05:26 AM
I'm not a huge Amare fan, but he would make the Cavs better, and they're already a good team. A big Laker advantage is the Pau/Bynum/Odom size advantage, and Shaq and Amare would combat that.

It'd be a good finals.

Man-Goblin
02-16-2010, 06:13 AM
All these teams that are allowed to make trades at the deadline to make themselves better can go **** themselves.

Carmelo15
02-16-2010, 06:26 AM
This Amare to the Cavs deal is about keeping LeBron in Cleveland. Whether they win this year or not this trade is about the future. They now have another legit young allstar to grow with LeBron n entice him to stay. He is to LeBron what Pau was to Kobe

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-16-2010, 07:04 AM
Lakers won't beat Denver for the West. Mark it down.

orangemonkey
02-16-2010, 07:05 AM
Lakers won't beat Denver for the West. Mark it down.

Yes!!! I agree.

Los Broncos
02-16-2010, 07:45 AM
They still wont beat the Lakers.

ohiobronco2
02-16-2010, 07:56 AM
This will make the Cavs a better team. Hickson scores the majority of his points in the paint with LeBron putting him in good positions to be successful. Amare doesn't completely rely on alley oop dunks like Hickson. Sure, he's not an all world defender, but look at what we would be giving up. Illgauskus (sp?) will likely resign with the cavs afterwards. The Magic don't have Turkey Glue this year to kill them from the outside. Frankly, I think this is every bit the steal that the Gasol trade was for the Lakers a few years ago.

ohiobronco2
02-16-2010, 07:57 AM
They still wont beat the Lakers.

You're right they won't be playing them in the finals. Lakers won't make it.

ohiobronco2
02-16-2010, 07:57 AM
This Amare to the Cavs deal is about keeping LeBron in Cleveland. Whether they win this year or not this trade is about the future. They now have another legit young allstar to grow with LeBron n entice him to stay. He is to LeBron what Pau was to Kobe

Spot on.

Los Broncos
02-16-2010, 07:58 AM
You're right they won't be playing them in the finals. Lakers won't make it.

Same thing a lot of people said last year.

Mountain Bronco
02-16-2010, 08:43 AM
The Cavs would be giving up good defense for more scoring. Amare is an awful 4 on defense, maybe the worst in the league.

I don't see him improving the Cavs enough to get by the Lakers, I actually believe that he would hinder them in that 7 game set.

Rulon Velvet Jones
02-16-2010, 08:48 AM
Don't you need to play defense in the playoffs?

Even still, I don't know who challenges the Cavs out of the East, even before this trade. LeBron is going to get to do whatever he wants en route to another Finals performance.

Go Mavs.

strafen
02-16-2010, 09:15 AM
Looks more and more like this deal to send Amare to Cleveland is going to go through. With James, Shaq and now Amare, are they set to dethrone the Lakeshow?

But apparently the Miami Heat are really pushing to make a deal to acquire Stoudemire. With Wade and Amare', the Heat could really make a serious push in the playoffs.

I think the Suns still prefer the Sixers deal where they would get Iguadala but the Sixers still haven't totally commited to that deal. Their time is running out. The Suns are going to deal Amare and only days away from the deadline, they probably won't wait till the last minute when things could just fall apart.

So, if Amare goes to the Heat or the Calvs, would that be enough to take the Lakers down? I certainly think if the Calves get Amare, they are the clear favorite in the East and could indeed take out the Lakers. If the Heat landed Amare, I think that puts them right there with Boston and Cleveland in the hunt for the top seed in the East.

Wow, that would be one hell of a series and I think Cleveland would come out on top.I don't follow Basketball much...
According to what I've heard yesterday, they actually give the Cavs a strong chance to win a championship.
The thing the Cavs seem to be more concerned about is making Lebron happy.
They want to surround him with good players.

bfoflcommish
02-16-2010, 09:20 AM
Amare is overrated. I don't see his addition to the east impacting the Lakers. He's been with Shaq and Nash (a two time MVP) and they didn't accomplish jack squat.


correct. him and shaq do not mesh at all. Now add that to Lebron as well. Amare is very good but overrated, I equate him to someone like Antonio Mcdyess when he was younger.


The Cavs would be giving up good defense for more scoring. Amare is an awful 4 on defense, maybe the worst in the league.

I don't see him improving the Cavs enough to get by the Lakers, I actually believe that he would hinder them in that 7 game set.


again, exactly! this is why amare is overated, he doesnt and cant play d all that well. when it comes to a 5 or 7 game set that will hurt them more than help them

Inkana7
02-16-2010, 09:25 AM
The Lakers don't play defense to begin with so I wouldn't be too concerned with any drop defensively. Mike Brown is a good defensive coach. Anyone who's ever been on the Suns is not.

bfoflcommish
02-16-2010, 09:27 AM
The Lakers don't play defense to begin with so I wouldn't be too concerned with any drop defensively. Mike Brown is a good defensive coach. Anyone who's ever been on the Suns is not.

hmm


Kobe is always one of the leagues top defenders, and With thier big men always hard to go inside on them.


that said GO NUGGETS!

Inkana7
02-16-2010, 09:30 AM
hmm


Kobe is always one of the leagues top defenders, and With thier big men always hard to go inside on them.


that said GO NUGGETS!

And yet they're always giving up 100+ points. It's nuts, I know.

bfoflcommish
02-16-2010, 09:33 AM
And yet they're always giving up 100+ points. It's nuts, I know.

Not ALWAYS, I will give you 90's but 90's and 100+ are totally different things espcially come playff time.

Jason in LA
02-16-2010, 10:40 AM
Lakers won't beat Denver for the West. Mark it down.

I heard that around here a lot last year.

orangemonkey
02-16-2010, 10:42 AM
I heard that around here a lot last year.

Lakers had some great support from the Refs last year. The Nuggets are a much better team this year.

That said, the Lakers were probably better last year. The Nuggets, however, are the scariest team in the West this year.

ludo21
02-16-2010, 11:06 AM
Amare for Hickson/Z is retarded.

I cant believe how dumb Kerr is for even considering this. We are better off finishing off this year and see if Amare will test the UDFA. I doubt anyone wil pay him more than the 18 mil or whatever we own him next year anyway,. Especially with the lockout looming

24champ
02-16-2010, 12:45 PM
I heard that around here a lot last year.

Year before that too, yet supposedly the Nuggets "own the Lakers" after two regular season wins. Ha! It's cute....really.

One thing we can count on in the playoffs is George Karl folding up like a cheap Chinese tent against Phil Jackson.

ohiobronco2
02-16-2010, 02:13 PM
Same thing a lot of people said last year.

Just messing with you. On paper the Lakers have the best team in the league but they have not played up to their potential this year. The west is just always so tough.

Los Broncos
02-16-2010, 02:44 PM
Just messing with you. On paper the Lakers have the best team in the league but they have not played up to their potential this year. The west is just always so tough.

I figured you were smart ass :)

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-16-2010, 03:01 PM
Year before that too, yet supposedly the Nuggets "own the Lakers" after two regular season wins. Ha! It's cute....really.

One thing we can count on in the playoffs is George Karl folding up like a cheap Chinese tent against Phil Jackson.

Did someone say the Nuggets "owned" the lakers? Did I miss that? Was it in this thread?

Huh. Weird.

It has some to do with the Nuggets beating the Lakers. It has more to do with this team getting another year together, and playing really well in spite of injuries to their core players.

Time will tell.

DBroncos4life
02-16-2010, 03:13 PM
Some of you guys make me laugh about how this makes the Cavs D worse. I love J.J. Hickson's potential, I really do. There is a reason he isn't playing more minutes though. He has no jump shot right now and he isn't all that great on D either. I'm sure he will be better the Stoudemire in the long run but Stoudemire is out rebounding Hickson right now period. Stoudemire will log more minutes and get more rebounds then Hickson but he still is getting more rebounds per minutes played.

Big Z will be brought back as well. Cleveland will have Shaq, Ilgauskas, Varejao, and Stoudemire as their big men. Powe will be back soon as well.

I'm not sure how many of you guys watched the last Magic/Cavs game. The sideline reporter asked them about Hickson and what adjustments they would make to stop him. Stan Van Gundy laughed and said we are not worried about J.J Hickson. Personally I don't think he could say that about Stoudemire.
Last thing that gets over looked is Stoudemire gets to the line and shoots better then Hickson. Stoudemire draws more fouls which gets other teams big men in foul trouble faster then what Hickson would give us come playoff time.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-16-2010, 03:36 PM
From Vic Lombardi on twitter:

"Doesn't sound like a trade. Another Denver TV station reporting that George Karl will announce a medical leave of absence." (at a 7pm presser tonight)

azbroncfan
02-16-2010, 03:40 PM
Some of you guys make me laugh about how this makes the Cavs D worse. I love J.J. Hickson's potential, I really do. There is a reason he isn't playing more minutes though. He has no jump shot right now and he isn't all that great on D either. I'm sure he will be better the Stoudemire in the long run but Stoudemire is out rebounding Hickson right now period. Stoudemire will log more minutes and get more rebounds then Hickson but he still is getting more rebounds per minutes played.

Big Z will be brought back as well. Cleveland will have Shaq, Ilgauskas, Varejao, and Stoudemire as their big men. Powe will be back soon as well.

I'm not sure how many of you guys watched the last Magic/Cavs game. The sideline reporter asked them about Hickson and what adjustments they would make to stop him. Stan Van Gundy laughed and said we are not worried about J.J Hickson. Personally I don't think he could say that about Stoudemire.
Last thing that gets over looked is Stoudemire gets to the line and shoots better then Hickson. Stoudemire draws more fouls which gets other teams big men in foul trouble faster then what Hickson would give us come playoff time.

Amare always takes stupid fouls in big games and sits the bench. I can't count how many times he thinks a foul should of been called for him and bang next two possesions 2 quick fouls and too the bench. You talk about Hickson like some of us think he is a great player. So far he is just a roll player that is very limited. Again Amare's offensive out put would have a big effect but you can't undervalue what he brings on the other end. Shaq and Amare defending pick and rolls has already proved to be an abortion. Amare may help but he may destroy what Cleveland has going right now.

DBroncos4life
02-16-2010, 03:55 PM
Amare always takes stupid fouls in big games and sits the bench. I can't count how many times he thinks a foul should of been called for him and bang next two possesions 2 quick fouls and too the bench. You talk about Hickson like some of us think he is a great player. So far he is just a roll player that is very limited. Again Amare's offensive out put would have a big effect but you can't undervalue what he brings on the other end. Shaq and Amare defending pick and rolls has already proved to be an abortion. Amare may help but he may destroy what Cleveland has going right now.

I get it you don't like Amare.

I talk about Hickson like I like him because I do. He is 21 years old and I think he has the ability to be better then just a role player.

As for the rest of what you said the Cavs are going to have 4 big men if the trade even goes down. They will figure out the best combo on the floor for defense. Shaq isn't even playing the most minutes out of our big men anyways. Anderson Varejao is. I'm not as worried about Shaq and Amare being on the court as the same time as you are. The only time you will see them log more court time together is 30 period the Cavs have to wait to get Big Z back.

DBroncos4life
02-16-2010, 04:58 PM
Question for you guys who makes the Cavs better Jameson or Stoudemire?

24champ
02-16-2010, 05:34 PM
Did someone say the Nuggets "owned" the lakers? Did I miss that? Was it in this thread?


:giggle: It's in the NBA thread you moron.

ZONA
02-16-2010, 09:08 PM
Well, I do think most people are not giving Amare enough credit on defense. It's true he has his share of weaknesses on defense but he does do some things well. He can block shots as good as any 6'10" forward there is. Okay, so that's about it. Everthing else on defense he's not that great at. But, he can rebound when he WANTS to.

Make no mistake, there are other forwards in this league that have good offense but what Amare does bring to a team is a forward who puts immense pressure on the other teams bigs. He will get them into foul trouble more times then not because he forces action inside all the time. Plus, he has one of the sweetest jumpshots for a big man there is. If anybody doubts that, you are a frickin retard. Usually, if you have a strong inside forward, he doesn't have a good outside shot, or the vise versa. It's rare to find a big forward that can take it inside and blast it down or go outside and nail down jumpers like nothing.

I hope the Suns don't send him to Cleveland though for next to nothing. I really hope the Sixers get with it and send over Iguadala to the Suns. Then the Suns can sit Grant Hill on the bench and trade Richardson. Get that rookie Clark in there in place of Hill so he can start learning now. Lopez is really starting to get things ticking at center. But this would be a sure sign the Suns have decided to rebuild with younger guys and Nash could want let go if Amare is gone.

azbroncfan
02-16-2010, 09:32 PM
I get it you don't like Amare.

.

It's not that I don't like Amare I was just answering your question in the post title. I don't think Amare instantly makes Cleveland the team to beat. I will also say again I think the trade will help but it wouldn't surprise me if Cleveland's Chemistry is disrupted either.

DBroncos4life
02-16-2010, 10:27 PM
I'm wondering more about the Jason Richardson part of this rumor. What is his deal? I like his stats better then Anthony Parker by a long shot. How is his D?

robbieopperude
02-17-2010, 01:16 AM
If Denver somehow lands T.Thomas or Murphy at the deadline they are going to be awfully tough on the Lakers. I just don't see how they can land anyone without getting into there core rotation. I presume Lawson has to be on the move in any deal. I like the Cavs chances of defeating the Lakers alot better with Amare because it gives them a go to guy when Lebron is resting or not on his game. They can just dump it in there and have Amare get his. Cleveland has no one else that can do that.
With the presumed trade of Amare to Clev. I would put Cavs as the favorites of Lakers. Denver is 2nd in the West and if Boston can get healthy I will put them as my darkhorse.

ZONA
02-17-2010, 01:51 AM
I'm wondering more about the Jason Richardson part of this rumor. What is his deal? I like his stats better then Anthony Parker by a long shot. How is his D?

JRich is the very definition of "streaky". There are times we he gets 28 points, 6 rebounds and a few steals. But all too often lately, he tries to get going with the 3 pointer instead of taking it to the rim first to get going, then taking some 3's. He had a great start to the season but after the first 4 weeks, he was not playing well at all. Recently, last few weeks he's stepped it up again. But he HAS to be alot more consistant for the Suns to be happy with what they are paying him. He's still got a nice sized contract.

But to answer your question, his "D" is not really stellar. This may sound wierd but for somebody who can jump like he does, he really isn't the quickest guy. He's got somewhat slow feet and his sprint speed is rather slowish for a 6'6 slasher/leaper. As I said, his shooting is very streaky but what he does do very well is post up smaller forwards and guards. He has excellent creativity and touch around the rim and certainly can get up and finish dunks. His passing I guess is average, nothing great but not bad.

Well, there you have my analysis on Jason Richardson. I watch every Suns game there is so that's my take on him.

But I never heard any rumors on trades regarding him. What did you hear? Link?

DBroncos4life
02-17-2010, 02:57 AM
JRich is the very definition of "streaky". There are times we he gets 28 points, 6 rebounds and a few steals. But all too often lately, he tries to get going with the 3 pointer instead of taking it to the rim first to get going, then taking some 3's. He had a great start to the season but after the first 4 weeks, he was not playing well at all. Recently, last few weeks he's stepped it up again. But he HAS to be alot more consistant for the Suns to be happy with what they are paying him. He's still got a nice sized contract.

But to answer your question, his "D" is not really stellar. This may sound wierd but for somebody who can jump like he does, he really isn't the quickest guy. He's got somewhat slow feet and his sprint speed is rather slowish for a 6'6 slasher/leaper. As I said, his shooting is very streaky but what he does do very well is post up smaller forwards and guards. He has excellent creativity and touch around the rim and certainly can get up and finish dunks. His passing I guess is average, nothing great but not bad.

Well, there you have my analysis on Jason Richardson. I watch every Suns game there is so that's my take on him.

But I never heard any rumors on trades regarding him. What did you hear? Link?

POSTED: Feb. 16 -- 7:51 p.m. ET

J.A. Adande: With rampant speculation that Miami is trying to pry Amare Stoudemire from the Phoenix Suns before the Cleveland Cavaliers can get him, here are two possible scenarios.

According to an NBA source, the Heat are offering Daequan Cook, Quentin Richardson, Dorell Wright, Mario Chalmers and draft picks to the Suns. Cook is the only player among that group who is under contract for next season (Chalmers has a team option for $847,000). It is believed that the Suns would rather have a package from Cleveland that would include Zydrunas Ilgauskas, J.J. Hickson and a draft pick, with the young Hickson as the most appealing part of the package.

Another league source said the Suns would like to attach Jason Richardson to a Stoudemire trade, which would relieve Phoenix from having to pay Richardson's $14 million salary next season. The combined $29 million of outgoing salary from Stoudemire and Richardson this season would be too difficult for Cleveland to match to make a trade work under the salary-cap guidelines. Miami, however, could add the $23 million expiring salary of Jermaine O'Neal to the previously mentioned offer and come within the 25 percent range of matching salaries. I have yet to hear that the Heat are willing to do so, I am merely mentioning the possibility.

That would have obvious appeal to the Suns, allowing them to escape from luxury-tax land next season and positioning them to go after a major free agent this summer.

The Suns would be looking at nine players under contract for a total of about $33 million next season: Steve Nash ($10.3 million), Leandro Barbosa ($7.1 million), Grant Hill ($3.3 million player option), Channing Frye ($2 million player option), Goran Dragic ($2 million), Earl Clark ($1.9 million), Robin Lopez ($1.9 million), Jared Dudley ($2.2 million) and Cook ($2.2 million).

The Heat would be stuck with Richardson's contract and could potentially have Stoudemire opt out and leave them as a free agent. But they would also have Stoudemire's Larry Bird rights, enabling them to offer a longer and more lucrative contract than any other team. And they would have demonstrated to Dwyane Wade that they would do whatever it takes to bring another All-Star to play alongside him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=TradeTalkRoundup-2010

Looking at him I would have to think he would be a upgrade over Parker on O anyways. I think Parker is pretty solid on D. I doubt any of this happens but the thought of this line up looks good on paper at least.
PG Mo Williams
SG Jason Richardson
SF Lebron James
PF Amare Stoudemire
C Shaquille O'Neal
Again its all rumors :)

HAT
02-17-2010, 08:15 AM
The Lakers don't play defense to begin with

This post is funny.

9th in points allowed
2nd in differential
5th in FG% allowed
1st in 3pt FG% allowed

azbroncfan
02-17-2010, 09:16 AM
I'm wondering more about the Jason Richardson part of this rumor. What is his deal? I like his stats better then Anthony Parker by a long shot. How is his D?

He is an upgrade over Anthony Parker for sure. He is another lazy player though that doesn't get everything out of his abilities. Very streaky shooter who would rather shoot the 3 that drive and draw fouls. When he decides to play and posts up players he is very good. Amare and JRICH both have no excuse for being poor defenders other than lack of effort and laziness. I think he is better at D than Amare though and is average rather than a liability. I can't say I have watched him much in Phoenix as I did at GS and Nelly doesn't care if his players play D. He would be better than Parker though.