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TonyR
02-11-2010, 06:26 PM
I know, I know, who cares about Jay Cutler. But this is hilarious and too good not to share. An analysis by Ron Jaworski of every one of Cutler's 26 interceptions.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/-1,jay-cutler-picks-11.photogallery?index=0

TonyR
02-11-2010, 06:28 PM
Protection wasn't Cutler's problem
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on February 11, 2010 3:44 PM ET

Masochistic Chicago Bears fans were given a treat Thursday. Sean Jensen of the Chicago Sun-Times examined all 26 of Jay Cutler's interceptions in grisly detail, with a huge assist from Ron Jaworski,.

The amazing takeaway is that protection problems weren't the cause of any of the interceptions. Sure, Orlando Pace was a bust. But this analysis supports my subjective thought that the Bears were far worse in their run blocking than their pass protection last year.

Most of Jay Cutler's picks came from mental mistakes, with some mechanical issues thrown in. That's why "Jaws" thinks Mike Martz is the perfect tutor for Cutler to fulfill his potential, if Cutler is willing to listen.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/11/protection-wasnt-cutlers-problem/

Dagmar
02-11-2010, 06:29 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_sIvWMQvGKyA/SVqqMqybPLI/AAAAAAAABxM/X264IvgZk8w/s400/emo+jay+cutler.jpg

misturanderson
02-11-2010, 06:41 PM
Protection wasn't Cutler's problem
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on February 11, 2010 3:44 PM ET

Masochistic Chicago Bears fans were given a treat Thursday. Sean Jensen of the Chicago Sun-Times examined all 26 of Jay Cutler's interceptions in grisly detail, with a huge assist from Ron Jaworski,.

The amazing takeaway is that protection problems weren't the cause of any of the interceptions. Sure, Orlando Pace was a bust. But this analysis supports my subjective thought that the Bears were far worse in their run blocking than their pass protection last year.

Most of Jay Cutler's picks came from mental mistakes, with some mechanical issues thrown in. That's why "Jaws" thinks Mike Martz is the perfect tutor for Cutler to fulfill his potential, if Cutler is willing to listen.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/11/protection-wasnt-cutlers-problem/
Were there actually people blaming Cutler's picks on pass protection? He has always thrown bad passes when he was under almost no pressure, usually to a receiver that he's been staring down for 3 seconds. It's because he isn't that good and doesn't work very hard to get better (or if he does work hard to get better, it isn't translating).

He also doesn't seem to understand game management at all. He needs to learn that checking down is ok when nothing else is open and that you don't force a bad throw on 1st down or wait for routes to develop when the other team is blitzing.

ColoradoDarin
02-11-2010, 07:25 PM
Looks like they breakdown into approximately: 40% bad decisions, 30% poor mechanics/poor throws and 30% good plays by defenders.

Jay could really use some advise from a QB developing coach. Instead Martz will get him killed.

DivineBronco
02-11-2010, 07:29 PM
there were a number of people who refuse to believe it could have possibly been his fault and yeah pass protection was one of the many excuses the jay-4-lifers gave

DenverBrit
02-11-2010, 08:10 PM
Pass protection wasn't Jay's problem in Denver, either.

Maybe it's Jay? :wiggle: :D

azbroncfan
02-11-2010, 08:17 PM
Pretty much goes with what I have always said he struggles with his progressions. Where you at BigP*$$Chris? How many times did they say in there I don't know why you don't check it down.

Florida_Bronco
02-11-2010, 08:19 PM
Jay could really use some advise from a QB developing coach. Too bad he ran himself out of the city that just acquired the best QB developing coach in the league.

This was pretty good analysis here, although not surprising for anyone who watched Jay with an objective outlook this season.

baja
02-11-2010, 08:49 PM
So happy with the trade wish Smith had shown more though.

HEAV
02-11-2010, 09:20 PM
On my drive today I was listening to ESPN Radio (Scott Van Pelt and Ryen Russillo) and they were discussing Danica Patrick and her push in NASCAR and about how she has acted over the years when things don't go her way....

Anyway Ryen Russillio called her the female Jay Cutler! LOL

BroncoMan4ever
02-11-2010, 09:20 PM
So happy with the trade wish Smith had shown more though.

i am not ready to give up on Smith. not all corners come into the NFL and immediately kick ass. it is a very difficult position to transition from college to the NFL. he has way too much natural ability to not at least be a decent eventual starter.

strafen
02-11-2010, 09:26 PM
According how Bears fans see it, only 2 of those intercptions were Cutler's fault... Ha!

baja
02-11-2010, 09:38 PM
i am not ready to give up on Smith. not all corners come into the NFL and immediately kick ass. it is a very difficult position to transition from college to the NFL. he has way too much natural ability to not at least be a decent eventual starter.

Oh I haven't given up on him I just wish he had a better rookie outing, I mean we had to exhume Ty Law to fill in.

strafen
02-11-2010, 09:40 PM
Oh I haven't given up on him I just wish he had a better rookie outing, I mean we had to exhume Ty Law to fill in.That's hilarious, man! ^5

Dedhed
02-11-2010, 09:58 PM
Looks like they breakdown into approximately: 40% bad decisions, 30% poor mechanics/poor throws and 30% good plays by defenders.

Jay could really use some advise from a QB developing coach. Instead Martz will get him killed.
I only counted 3 good plays by defenders.

More like 65% poor decisions, 25% mechanics, and 10% good defense.

azbroncfan
02-11-2010, 09:59 PM
According how Bears fans see it, only 2 of those intercptions were Cutler's fault... Ha!

Most of the Bears fan's I know don't like the guy. There are a ton of Chicago people here in Arizona too.

strafen
02-11-2010, 10:00 PM
Most of the Bears fan's I know don't like the guy. There are a ton of Chicago people here in Arizona too.I'm referring to those from the team website board...

Florida_Bronco
02-11-2010, 10:01 PM
Most of the Bears fan's I know don't like the guy. There are a ton of Chicago people here in Arizona too.

The ones I know are split about 60/40 with the majority not liking him too much.

baja
02-11-2010, 10:03 PM
The ones I know are split about 60/40 with the majority not liking him too much.

Those numbers were close to what the fan base here felt about Jay.

Hamrob
02-11-2010, 10:14 PM
What's funny to me is how so many of you want to write Jay's ticket to Ryan Leafdom so quickly.

Passing Stats
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
1991 ATL 2 0 4 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 2 0.0
1992 GNB 15 302 471 64.1 3227 6.9 18 76 13 85.3
1993 GNB 16 318 522 60.9 3303 6.3 19 66 24 72.2
1994 GNB 16 363 582 62.4 3882 6.7 33 49 14 90.7
1995 GNB 16 359 570 63.0 4413 7.7 38 99 13 99.5
1996 GNB 16 325 543 59.9 3899 7.2 39 80 13 95.8
1997 GNB 16 304 513 59.3 3867 7.5 35 74 16 92.6
1998 GNB 16 347 551 63.0 4212 7.6 31 84 23 87.8
1999 GNB 16 341 595 57.3 4091 6.9 22 74 23 74.7
2000 GNB 16 338 580 58.3 3812 6.6 20 67 16 78.0
2001 GNB 16 314 510 61.6 3921 7.7 32 67 15 94.1
2002 GNB 16 341 551 61.9 3658 6.6 27 85 16 85.6
2003 GNB 16 308 471 65.4 3361 7.1 32 66 21 90.4
2004 GNB 16 346 540 64.1 4088 7.6 30 79 17 92.4
2005 GNB 16 372 607 61.3 3881 6.4 20 59 29 70.9
2006 GNB 16 343 613 56.0 3885 6.3 18 82 18 72.7
2007 GNB 16 356 535 66.5 4155 7.8 28 82 15 95.7
2008 NYJ 16 343 522 65.7 3472 6.7 22 56 22 81.0
2009 MIN 16 363 531 68.4 4202 7.9 33 63 7 107.2
Career 289 6083 9811 62.0 69329 7.1 497 99 317 86.6

Take a look at the above stats...this guys headed to the HOF folks. With a little of luck and some good coaching...Cutler will be headed in the same direction. Take a look at Favre's 3rd year in the league...he threw 24 picks and only 19 TD's at least Cutler threw more TD's than INT's. Look what Favre was able to accomplish after that year. Yet he still stumbled in 99 and 05. Say what you will, but don't count this guy out just yet.

There first 4yrs in the NFL:
TD INT
Cutler 81 63
Favre 70 53

Cutler threw 10 more picks...but 11 more TD's. Pretty even steven if you ask me.

azbroncfan
02-11-2010, 10:25 PM
There first 4yrs in the NFL:
TD INT
Cutler 81 63
Favre 70 53

Cutler threw 10 more picks...but 11 more TD's. Pretty even steven if you ask me.

How many wins and playoff appearence's and wins for the two? Farve makes players around him better Jay doesn't.

azbroncfan
02-11-2010, 10:25 PM
Those numbers were close to what the fan base here felt about Jay.

No he was a future HOF'er before the trade.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=52837&highlight=jay+cutler+trade

BroncoMan4ever
02-11-2010, 10:29 PM
Oh I haven't given up on him I just wish he had a better rookie outing, I mean we had to exhume Ty Law to fill in.

good point. i was ok with Law, simply because that to me had a Patriots style move written all over it. Bring in the veteran who is past his prime and stick him into a starting role. Patriots do that all the time. the thing that had me a little wary on the guy was when he could beat out the UDFA.

i am still optimistic that he will get it together and be a decent playmaker for us. another year like last season and i will definitely begin to worry.

baja
02-11-2010, 10:30 PM
No he was a future HOF'er before the trade.

Many of us saw Jay as a spoiled, hard to coach prick with some talent but uncoachable.

BroncoMan4ever
02-11-2010, 10:34 PM
What's funny to me is how so many of you want to write Jay's ticket to Ryan Leafdom so quickly.

Passing Stats
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
1991 ATL 2 0 4 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 2 0.0
1992 GNB 15 302 471 64.1 3227 6.9 18 76 13 85.3
1993 GNB 16 318 522 60.9 3303 6.3 19 66 24 72.2
1994 GNB 16 363 582 62.4 3882 6.7 33 49 14 90.7
1995 GNB 16 359 570 63.0 4413 7.7 38 99 13 99.5
1996 GNB 16 325 543 59.9 3899 7.2 39 80 13 95.8
1997 GNB 16 304 513 59.3 3867 7.5 35 74 16 92.6
1998 GNB 16 347 551 63.0 4212 7.6 31 84 23 87.8
1999 GNB 16 341 595 57.3 4091 6.9 22 74 23 74.7
2000 GNB 16 338 580 58.3 3812 6.6 20 67 16 78.0
2001 GNB 16 314 510 61.6 3921 7.7 32 67 15 94.1
2002 GNB 16 341 551 61.9 3658 6.6 27 85 16 85.6
2003 GNB 16 308 471 65.4 3361 7.1 32 66 21 90.4
2004 GNB 16 346 540 64.1 4088 7.6 30 79 17 92.4
2005 GNB 16 372 607 61.3 3881 6.4 20 59 29 70.9
2006 GNB 16 343 613 56.0 3885 6.3 18 82 18 72.7
2007 GNB 16 356 535 66.5 4155 7.8 28 82 15 95.7
2008 NYJ 16 343 522 65.7 3472 6.7 22 56 22 81.0
2009 MIN 16 363 531 68.4 4202 7.9 33 63 7 107.2
Career 289 6083 9811 62.0 69329 7.1 497 99 317 86.6

Take a look at the above stats...this guys headed to the HOF folks. With a little of luck and some good coaching...Cutler will be headed in the same direction. Take a look at Favre's 3rd year in the league...he threw 24 picks and only 19 TD's at least Cutler threw more TD's than INT's. Look what Favre was able to accomplish after that year. Yet he still stumbled in 99 and 05. Say what you will, but don't count this guy out just yet.

There first 4yrs in the NFL:
TD INT
Cutler 81 63
Favre 70 53

Cutler threw 10 more picks...but 11 more TD's. Pretty even steven if you ask me.

shouldn't you be comparing the 4th seasons of each QB?

Jay in his 4th season had 27 TDs and 26 INTs
Farve his 4th season had 33 TDs and 14 INTs

everyone who still swings from Cutler's ball sack tries to pull the stats of another player and make a comparison of Jay's stats to either a QB who at that point was washed up or was still a rookie. it is never compared to the correct year in which both played.

if you're going to compare QBs stats, compare the correct seasons.

in Favre's 4th season he took the next step in becoming elite. in Cutler's 4th season he **** the bed.

misturanderson
02-11-2010, 11:59 PM
shouldn't you be comparing the 4th seasons of each QB?

Jay in his 4th season had 27 TDs and 26 INTs
Farve his 4th season had 33 TDs and 14 INTs

everyone who still swings from Cutler's ball sack tries to pull the stats of another player and make a comparison of Jay's stats to either a QB who at that point was washed up or was still a rookie. it is never compared to the correct year in which both played.

if you're going to compare QBs stats, compare the correct seasons.

in Favre's 4th season he took the next step in becoming elite. in Cutler's 4th season he **** the bed.

You could pretty much make the argument that the 38 and 13 year was Farve's true 4th year as well considering his whole 4 attempts as a rookie. He did poorly his first year, got worse, and then got way better. He did not get slightly better, stayed the same and got worse during his 1st 3 offseasons.

We'll see if Cutler improves this offseason, because if he doesn't there won't be many more chances for him.

BroncoMan4ever
02-12-2010, 12:41 AM
You could pretty much make the argument that the 38 and 13 year was Farve's true 4th year as well considering his whole 4 attempts as a rookie. He did poorly his first year, got worse, and then got way better. He did not get slightly better, stayed the same and got worse during his 1st 3 offseasons.

We'll see if Cutler improves this offseason, because if he doesn't there won't be many more chances for him.

i agree. potential and athletic ability will only get you a pass for so long. the NFL is based on results, and Jay's is not giving the type of results that will keep an organization from looking into other potential options that would get them the results they want.

another season like this year and it would not surprise me at all to see the Bears either look into a replacement, bring in veteran competition, or look into potential trade offers.

~Crash~
02-12-2010, 01:09 AM
same old ass hats

Kaylore
02-12-2010, 02:10 AM
I love the argument that because one hall of famer had a bad year that means another bad player with a bad year will go to the hall of fame too. Think about how stupid that is. That's like saying because some local politician lost an election he's going to be the next president because Lincoln also lost an election once. It's completely retarded.

rastaman
02-12-2010, 05:06 AM
What's funny to me is how so many of you want to write Jay's ticket to Ryan Leafdom so quickly.

Passing Stats
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
1991 ATL 2 0 4 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 2 0.0
1992 GNB 15 302 471 64.1 3227 6.9 18 76 13 85.3
1993 GNB 16 318 522 60.9 3303 6.3 19 66 24 72.2
1994 GNB 16 363 582 62.4 3882 6.7 33 49 14 90.7
1995 GNB 16 359 570 63.0 4413 7.7 38 99 13 99.5
1996 GNB 16 325 543 59.9 3899 7.2 39 80 13 95.8
1997 GNB 16 304 513 59.3 3867 7.5 35 74 16 92.6
1998 GNB 16 347 551 63.0 4212 7.6 31 84 23 87.8
1999 GNB 16 341 595 57.3 4091 6.9 22 74 23 74.7
2000 GNB 16 338 580 58.3 3812 6.6 20 67 16 78.0
2001 GNB 16 314 510 61.6 3921 7.7 32 67 15 94.1
2002 GNB 16 341 551 61.9 3658 6.6 27 85 16 85.6
2003 GNB 16 308 471 65.4 3361 7.1 32 66 21 90.4
2004 GNB 16 346 540 64.1 4088 7.6 30 79 17 92.4
2005 GNB 16 372 607 61.3 3881 6.4 20 59 29 70.9
2006 GNB 16 343 613 56.0 3885 6.3 18 82 18 72.7
2007 GNB 16 356 535 66.5 4155 7.8 28 82 15 95.7
2008 NYJ 16 343 522 65.7 3472 6.7 22 56 22 81.0
2009 MIN 16 363 531 68.4 4202 7.9 33 63 7 107.2
Career 289 6083 9811 62.0 69329 7.1 497 99 317 86.6

Take a look at the above stats...this guys headed to the HOF folks. With a little of luck and some good coaching...Cutler will be headed in the same direction. Take a look at Favre's 3rd year in the league...he threw 24 picks and only 19 TD's at least Cutler threw more TD's than INT's. Look what Favre was able to accomplish after that year. Yet he still stumbled in 99 and 05. Say what you will, but don't count this guy out just yet.

There first 4yrs in the NFL:
TD INT
Cutler 81 63
Favre 70 53

Cutler threw 10 more picks...but 11 more TD's. Pretty even steven if you ask me.

BINGO! The Jay haters are "HOPING" that Cutler is a failure just b/c he demnded a trade to get a way from McSatin.

Something tells me that Cutler will have the last laugh here. And the possibility of McD screwing up the two number 1 picks from the Bears for the Cutler trade will always be a glaring possibility over the next 4 or 5 years

rastaman
02-12-2010, 05:11 AM
shouldn't you be comparing the 4th seasons of each QB?

Jay in his 4th season had 27 TDs and 26 INTs
Farve his 4th season had 33 TDs and 14 INTs

everyone who still swings from Cutler's ball sack tries to pull the stats of another player and make a comparison of Jay's stats to either a QB who at that point was washed up or was still a rookie. it is never compared to the correct year in which both played.

if you're going to compare QBs stats, compare the correct seasons.

in Favre's 4th season he took the next step in becoming elite. in Cutler's 4th season he **** the bed.

Thats why they play the game. Each season players have a chance to improve or not to improve. And fans simple get to critize or glorify the players.

See ya in 2010. Jay welcomes the bullseye his haters from Denver places on him. You know Cutler wants to prove his haters wrong. We will see.

Punisher
02-12-2010, 06:21 AM
Ever since he got traded this website has gone done the drain nothing but Jay Cutler threads, for **** sake just let go

colonelbeef
02-12-2010, 06:58 AM
Too bad he ran himself out of the city that just acquired the best QB developing coach in the league.

This was pretty good analysis here, although not surprising for anyone who watched Jay with an objective outlook this season.

Who is the best QB developing coach in the league?

Cutler will recover and be the star QB everyone expects him to be, this year will have been humbling enough to put him in the right place where Martz will have his undivided attention. Can't imagine the abuse he is getting in Chicago, let alone elsewhere in the country.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-12-2010, 08:01 AM
Who is the best QB developing coach in the league?

Cutler will recover and be the star QB everyone expects him to be, this year will have been humbling enough to put him in the right place where Martz will have his undivided attention. Can't imagine the abuse he is getting in Chicago, let alone elsewhere in the country.

http://chelsea.theoffside.com/files/2009/08/miss-cleo.jpg

Call beef now for a free reedin'.

colonelbeef
02-12-2010, 08:18 AM
shouldn't you be comparing the 4th seasons of each QB?

Jay in his 4th season had 27 TDs and 26 INTs
Farve his 4th season had 33 TDs and 14 INTs

everyone who still swings from Cutler's ball sack tries to pull the stats of another player and make a comparison of Jay's stats to either a QB who at that point was washed up or was still a rookie. it is never compared to the correct year in which both played.

if you're going to compare QBs stats, compare the correct seasons.

in Favre's 4th season he took the next step in becoming elite. in Cutler's 4th season he **** the bed.

Dude, Favre threw 29 INTs in ****ing 2005.

The comparison is completely valid.

colonelbeef
02-12-2010, 08:22 AM
http://chelsea.theoffside.com/files/2009/08/miss-cleo.jpg

Call beef now for a free reedin'.

It's called being unbiased.

I called the Broncos' offense completely sucking this year, how'd that work out?

oubronco
02-12-2010, 08:42 AM
Jay will be fine just watch the world is his oyster

kamakazi_kal
02-12-2010, 08:45 AM
People that liked him still do

People that hate him are still hating

Do we really need another thread about it?

Man-Goblin
02-12-2010, 09:00 AM
Martz's offense yields a lot of interceptions for normal QBs. If Cutler somehow manages to stay healthy after being tee'd up every time he drops back, he probably will throw even more interceptions next year.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-12-2010, 09:33 AM
It's called being unbiased.

I called the Broncos' offense completely sucking this year, how'd that work out?

Unbiased? You're predicting that a as-yet unreliable quarterback will suddenly make the leap simply because you love him. how is that "unbiased"?

And for the record, we took 4 places back on scoring offense. Not exactly "completely sucking," but... oh, wait, i see. Just another example of your "unbiased" observation.

Ray Finkle
02-12-2010, 09:41 AM
I miss the days of Griese vs Plummer.....

Hamrob
02-12-2010, 09:49 AM
I love the argument that because one hall of famer had a bad year that means another bad player with a bad year will go to the hall of fame too. Think about how stupid that is. That's like saying because some local politician lost an election he's going to be the next president because Lincoln also lost an election once. It's completely retarded.All I'm saying is...giving up on a guy with the talent Cutler has...after his 4th year in the league is idiotic! I think it's easy to see...his performance through his first 4 seasons compare well with Favre's. In addition, Favre had a year where he threw for 29 ints. Look how many years he threw for 20+ picks.

Cutler's gone, I'm fine with that. But, I won't say that he sucks or doesn't have a chance at greatness just because Josh McDaniels didn't want him.

That's stupidity at its highest point.

Br0nc0Buster
02-12-2010, 09:49 AM
Shanahan made probowlers out of Plummer, Griese, and Cutler

I think its obvious where Cutler got his success from and why he looks like **** now

His throwing mechanics are still terrible, how is it that he keeps throwing off his back foot in his 4th year?

Hamrob
02-12-2010, 09:51 AM
How many wins and playoff appearence's and wins for the two? Farve makes players around him better Jay doesn't.Favre had zero after 4yrs...the same as Cutler.

Br0nc0Buster
02-12-2010, 09:51 AM
All I'm saying is...giving up on a guy with the talent Cutler has...after his 4th year in the league is idiotic! I think it's easy to see...his performance through his first 4 seasons compare well with Favre's. In addition, Favre had a year where he threw for 29 ints. Look how many years he threw for 20+ picks.

Cutler's gone, I'm fine with that. But, I won't say that he sucks or doesn't have a chance at greatness just because Josh McDaniels didn't want him.

That's stupidity at its highest point.

He sucks because he sucks
he led the league in turnovers

and stop with the Josh didnt want him bs, Jay demanded a trade, not the other way around

Hamrob
02-12-2010, 09:54 AM
shouldn't you be comparing the 4th seasons of each QB?

Jay in his 4th season had 27 TDs and 26 INTs
Farve his 4th season had 33 TDs and 14 INTs

everyone who still swings from Cutler's ball sack tries to pull the stats of another player and make a comparison of Jay's stats to either a QB who at that point was washed up or was still a rookie. it is never compared to the correct year in which both played.

if you're going to compare QBs stats, compare the correct seasons.

in Favre's 4th season he took the next step in becoming elite. in Cutler's 4th season he **** the bed.I compared both players to one another after each had 4 seasons in the NFL. They compare favorably.

Apples to Apples

Hamrob
02-12-2010, 09:56 AM
He sucks because he sucks
he led the league in turnovers

and stop with the Josh didnt want him bs, Jay demanded a trade, not the other way aroundThe coach held the power...it was his decision.

You think he sucks...he's given plenty of reason for folks to think he sucks. I'm not defending that.

I just think he's got too much talent and is too smart to not succeed. We'll see. My point with the Favre comparison is...it's too early to write him off.

Br0nc0Buster
02-12-2010, 09:57 AM
The coach held the power...it was his decision.

You think he sucks...he's given plenty of reason for folks to think he sucks. I'm not defending that.

I just think he's got too much talent and is too smart to not succeed. We'll see. My point with the Favre comparison is...it's too early to write him off.

no the owner held the power and it was his decision, he said as much

I think he will improve from this past season, but I think it is becoming more clear that he was vastly overrated

WolfpackGuy
02-12-2010, 10:01 AM
The Broncos got Ayers, Orton, and whatever first rounder this year that doesn't fulfill a need.

I'd say that's pretty even...

Hamrob
02-12-2010, 10:11 AM
The Broncos got Ayers, Orton, and whatever first rounder this year that doesn't fulfill a need.

I'd say that's pretty even...Gawd I hope Ayers pans out. Orton is an average jouneyman QB and you could argue the Smith/Quinn picks as being part of the deal.

But, sticking with our 1st round pick this year from Chi...I think we need to hit on it or this was a busted trade.

baja
02-12-2010, 10:11 AM
I compared both players to one another after each had 4 seasons in the NFL. They compare favorably.

Apples to Apples

Your DNA and the DNA of a chimpanzee are 99.6 % the same is that apples to apples?

Hamrob
02-12-2010, 10:14 AM
no the owner held the power and it was his decision, he said as much

I think he will improve from this past season, but I think it is becoming more clear that he was vastly overratedThe owner had no choice but to back his boy wonder coach. I think Bowlen has been plenty honest about JM's many mistakes.

I don't know how he'll fit in with Martz, we'll see. I don't think he was overrated though. I think he needs the right coaching...similar to what he had with us. The next couple years will tell the story.

Hamrob
02-12-2010, 10:15 AM
Your DNA and the DNA of a chimpanzee are 99.6 % the same is that apples to apples?That's closer than a Cutler to Orton comparison. :-)

baja
02-12-2010, 10:16 AM
That's closer than a Cutler to Orton comparison. :-)

You do realize you just said you are more like a chimp that Orton is like Jay Cutler. ;D

Hamrob
02-12-2010, 10:37 AM
You do realize you just said you are more like a chimp that Orton is like Jay Cutler. ;DThat's how far away Orton is from being a decent qb. And the more I watch Orton play, the more I feel like a chimp.

Triplelefthook
02-12-2010, 10:44 AM
I actually think Cutler could have and would have thrived here under McNugget, it's a shame we didn't get to see it happen and I didn't want to see him traded... but he is gone.

He did his part in getting us a good (but not too good) draft pick this year, so LET IT GO. Everyone needs to stop this Cutler nonsense... he isn't Peyton Manning and no he isn't Jeff George yet either. Until we meet the Bears in the superbowl or in the regular season, these threads should be deleted immediately before they gather steam. set an example FFS

Inkana7
02-12-2010, 10:46 AM
Favre had zero after 4yrs...the same as Cutler.

Dude...no. In his 3rd year they made the playoffs and went 1-1, in his second year they made it and went 1-1.

~Crash~
02-12-2010, 10:59 AM
I actually think Cutler could have and would have thrived here under McNugget, it's a shame we didn't get to see it happen and I didn't want to see him traded... but he is gone.

He did his part in getting us a good (but not too good) draft pick this year, so LET IT GO. Everyone needs to stop this Cutler nonsense... he isn't Peyton Manning and no he isn't Jeff George yet either. Until we meet the Bears in the superbowl or in the regular season, these threads should be deleted immediately before they gather steam. set an example FFS

watch out talking sense to this bunch gets you bad rep ...:wave:

Triplelefthook
02-12-2010, 11:03 AM
watch out talking sense to this bunch gets you bad rep ...:wave:

i honestly think this is a very fun topic to bring up when it is relevant. If this topic came up everytime we played the Bears it would be great, but its useless to beat the dead horse like this when we are a full year removed of Mr. Cutler, dont you think?

baja
02-12-2010, 11:17 AM
Cutler is sick look at him and tell me he looks healthy to you. He'll be out of the league in 3 years. mark my words ;D

bronco610
02-12-2010, 11:38 AM
Cutler is sick look at him and tell me he looks healthy to you. He'll be out of the league in 3 years. mark my words ;D

Maybe, but then that will be McDs fault and we will have all new threads bitching about what kind of career jay would have had if he hadn't gotten sick. All because of McD.

NYBronco
02-12-2010, 02:37 PM
Most of the Bears fan's I know don't like the guy. There are a ton of Chicago people here in Arizona too.

I've approached a couple of Bears fans and asked how they like their new "franchise" QB and the response is not to favorable.

azbroncfan
02-12-2010, 03:30 PM
Favre had zero after 4yrs...the same as Cutler.

http://football.about.com/cs/2003nflplayoffs/a/playoffhistgrnb.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Favre

Where do you guys come up with this stuff? It also doesn't matter if you consider Farve's first year with only 4 attempts his first or the next year when he got some playing time. There is no comparison about the two except a strong arm.

azbroncfan
02-12-2010, 03:38 PM
Why are we comparing this guy to Farve? Cutler is John Elway. They both have had 20+ INT years in first 4 years, both had 4000 yard years and Cutler had 500 or so more, Cutler's arm is stronger, both drunks, etc except Jay has done it a little more. Let's don't stop at Farve.

BroncoMan4ever
02-12-2010, 04:32 PM
Thats why they play the game. Each season players have a chance to improve or not to improve. And fans simple get to critize or glorify the players.

See ya in 2010. Jay welcomes the bullseye his haters from Denver places on him. You know Cutler wants to prove his haters wrong. We will see.

Jay has had haters since he came into the league. every year there is a comparison to Jeff George, and yet going into season 5 he has yet to do a single thing to pick up his game to get the haters off of his back. why would anything change this season?

i hate hearing this crap about Jay wanting to prove people wrong, or trying to become the greatest ever. he doesn't want to put in the work to do either of those things.

he has it in his mind that he is god's gift to the NFL and that he is already great. he doesn't see anything wrong in his game.

mechanics are a relatively simple aspect of a QBs game that can be corrected, yet after 4 years in the league he still has the same bad mechanics he did as a rookie.

if Shanahan couldn't get the guy to take the next step in becoming an elite QB, no one is going to make it happen.

Florida_Bronco
02-12-2010, 10:26 PM
Who is the best QB developing coach in the league? Josh McDaniels. You know, the guy who turned Tom Brady into a record setting quarterback and Matt Cassel into an 11-5 starter that commanded a 2nd round pick in the off season.

Drek
02-13-2010, 07:34 AM
Gawd I hope Ayers pans out. Orton is an average jouneyman QB and you could argue the Smith/Quinn picks as being part of the deal.

But, sticking with our 1st round pick this year from Chi...I think we need to hit on it or this was a busted trade.

Yeah, it'll be a busted trade when Orton alone out played Cutler last year.

The owner had no choice but to back his boy wonder coach. I think Bowlen has been plenty honest about JM's many mistakes.

I don't know how he'll fit in with Martz, we'll see. I don't think he was overrated though. I think he needs the right coaching...similar to what he had with us. The next couple years will tell the story.

If you had paid attention last off-season instead of putting the blinders on as soon as someone questioned your man crush you'd have seen that McDaniels intention was to make Cutler show up and play. Bowlen demanded McDaniels trade Cutler when Cutler stopped communicating with Bowlen.

baja
02-13-2010, 07:50 AM
I'll never forget what Bowlen said about Jay Cutler when we were searching for a new coach. Someone asked Pat if he were going to consult with Jay before hiring the new coach. Bowlen said I planned to because "Jay was the man around here". Thing about it is Bowlen seemed to chock on his words as if he hated to make that statement. It was then I realized that Bowlen did not like his QB very much and that was before McDaniels was even hired.

rastaman
02-13-2010, 08:15 AM
Cutler is sick look at him and tell me he looks healthy to you. He'll be out of the league in 3 years. mark my words ;D

McD could be fired! In one to three years as well. :giggle:

rastaman
02-13-2010, 08:18 AM
Jay has had haters since he came into the league. every year there is a comparison to Jeff George, and yet going into season 5 he has yet to do a single thing to pick up his game to get the haters off of his back. why would anything change this season?

i hate hearing this crap about Jay wanting to prove people wrong, or trying to become the greatest ever. he doesn't want to put in the work to do either of those things.

he has it in his mind that he is god's gift to the NFL and that he is already great. he doesn't see anything wrong in his game.

mechanics are a relatively simple aspect of a QBs game that can be corrected, yet after 4 years in the league he still has the same bad mechanics he did as a rookie.

if Shanahan couldn't get the guy to take the next step in becoming an elite QB, no one is going to make it happen.

You could be right. However, I going to give Martz and Cutler 2 years to see what they can get done together.

CEH
02-13-2010, 08:26 AM
50/50 odds says both Lovie Smith and Martz wil be out after this year and Cutler will be on his 4th HC in 2 years. Everyone in Chitown is tied to the success of Jay Cutler. If Cutler fails with Martz, I think it's a foregone conclusion that Cutler is a coach killer

rastaman
02-13-2010, 08:42 AM
50/50 odds says both Lovie Smith and Martz wil be out after this year and Cutler will be on his 4th HC in 2 years. Everyone in Chitown is tied to the success of Jay Cutler. If Cutler fails with Martz, I think it's a foregone conclusion that Cutler is a coach killer

That's what you're wishing for which say's you havent fully told your story why you belive in one year both Lovee and Martz will be gone. ;)

CEH
02-13-2010, 09:47 AM
That's what you're wishing for which say's you havent fully told your story why you belive in one year both Lovee and Martz will be gone. ;)

Martz will ride with Lovie and Lovie's leash gets shorter and shorter each year. Buy a clue . Lovie doesn't get a do over just because he brought in his buddy Martz after several younger candiates passed. Win this year or I think they have seen enough of Lovie to move in another direction.

BroncoBuff
02-13-2010, 10:16 AM
watch out talking sense to this bunch gets you bad rep ...:wave:

Tell me about it ... :oyvey:

BroncoBuff
02-13-2010, 10:17 AM
If you had paid attention last off-season instead of putting the blinders on as soon as someone questioned your man crush you'd have seen that McDaniels intention was to make Cutler show up and play. Bowlen demanded McDaniels trade Cutler when Cutler stopped communicating with Bowlen.

My mancrush wasn't about Jay being a "great" player, it was that he was "our" guy ... we targeted him, traded up to draft him, he was gonna grow up with the best young, all-homegrown Bronco offense I've ever seen, for me that was tough to lose. Of course he definitely had a monolithically horrible year, but I'm confident he'll turn it around right away.

That article btw, a bit obsesssive.

Hamrob
02-13-2010, 10:24 AM
There's no doubt that Cutler needs to have a good season to save Lovie. If not, Lovie is gone and Martz with him.

Cutler needs to cut down on the mistakes and Martz needs to get him there. I think he will.

The biggest problems in Chicago (IMO) were:

1. Defense
2. Playcalling
3. Decision Making

Look, Chicago has a great back in Forte and they have a very good TE in Olson...why were they throwing the ball down the field so much? Bad play calling and poor execution.

I think their WR's are pretty good, they just needed time together. With Martz's system forcing Jay to get the ball out quicker focused on timing...I think they'll be alot better off.

Chicago needs to improve their DB's and LB's on defense. They'll be better next year...but playing against GB and Minn...they'll have their work cut out for them.

BroncoBuff
02-13-2010, 10:29 AM
Rep Hamrob ... good post.

Not sure Lovei's in that much trouble. Cutler's at fault for '09, and they are just a couple years past a Super Bowl.

barryr
02-13-2010, 11:55 AM
That's been the issue with Cutler, being able to take criticism and working on things and not believing he's just fine as he is. Cutler needs maturity first before anything else.

BroncoMan4ever
02-13-2010, 12:02 PM
You could be right. However, I going to give Martz and Cutler 2 years to see what they can get done together.

i honestly think in Martz pass happy offense Jay could wind up setting a new single season mark for INTs.

that type of offense is for a more disciplined QB who is adept to locating his checkdowns and using them. Jay in balanced offenses that use the run a lot is always looking for the deep pass or locking onto his receiver and throw a ton of INTs, put him in an offense where he is free to simply throw all day and it is likely his INT numbers could rocket up.

Florida_Bronco
02-13-2010, 12:06 PM
My mancrush wasn't about Jay being a "great" player, it was that he was "our" guy ... we targeted him, traded up to draft him, he was gonna grow up with the best young, all-homegrown Bronco offense I've ever seen, for me that was tough to lose.

All the more reason to be angry with Jay.

BroncoBuff
02-13-2010, 12:29 PM
All the more reason to be angry with Jay.

I definitely see why you think that, but I'm pretty sure he didn't really want to leave. That was fairy evident in his reaction the day he was traded, remember? He made a couple of strange, wide-eyed remarks like "I didn't want this."

He wanted Josh to give him some personal respect face to face. In a childish way he just wanted some 'cover' so he could come back with ego intact. Josh's "trade talks" probably didn't go very far, but Jay got wind of them and reacted badly. Josh is also, imho, pretty egotistical and even childish too, as evident after the preseason Bears game when he (I think in frustration from losing the game) took a shot a Jay.

Josh always refused to give 'the player' the kind of treatment adults should give children to keep them happy, most evident in the bad results in those meetings. That's what you get sometimes when you hire a 32 year-old to manage 53 rich young guys.

Dagmar
02-13-2010, 12:36 PM
I definitely see why you think that, but I'm pretty sure he didn't really want to leave. That was fairy evident in his reaction the day he was traded, remember? He made a couple of strange, wide-eyed remarks like "I didn't want this."

He wanted Josh to give him some personal respect face to face. In a childish way he just wanted some 'cover' so he could come back with ego intact. Josh's "trade talks" probably didn't go very far, but Jay got wind of them and reacted badly. Josh is also, imho, pretty stubborn and even childish too ... he refused to give 'the player' the kind of treatment adults should give children to keep them happy, most evident in the bad results in those meetings. That's what you get sometimes when you hire a 32 year-old to manage 53 rich young guys.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2igyk2t.png

BroncoBuff
02-13-2010, 12:38 PM
http://i49.tinypic.com/2igyk2t.png

Interesting you point that out .... I just edited my post you quoted above. read the bolded part:



I definitely see why you think that, but I'm pretty sure he didn't really want to leave. That was fairy evident in his reaction the day he was traded, remember? He made a couple of strange, wide-eyed remarks like "I didn't want this."

He wanted Josh to give him some personal respect face to face. In a childish way he just wanted some 'cover' so he could come back with ego intact. Josh's "trade talks" probably didn't go very far, but Jay got wind of them and reacted badly. Josh is also, imho, pretty egotistical and even childish too, as evident after the preseason Bears game when he (I think in frustration from losing the game) took a shot a Jay.

Josh always refused to give 'the player' the kind of treatment adults should give children to keep them happy, most evident in the bad results in those meetings. That's what you get sometimes when you hire a 32 year-old to manage 53 rich young guys.

Florida_Bronco
02-13-2010, 12:47 PM
I definitely see why you think that, but I'm pretty sure he didn't really want to leave. That was fairy evident in his reaction the day he was traded, remember? He made a couple of strange, wide-eyed remarks like "I didn't want this." He can say whatever the hell he wants to the media, but he reportedly (from credible sources) wanted a trade as soon as Bates was gone and then publicly demanded a trade later, refused to meet one on one with Josh and did not return Bowlen's phone calls.

You are (or were?) a lawyer. If this was a court of law and Jay Cutler was on trial for allegedly wanting a trade, do you think he could beat the charges given the evidence.

I sure don't.

BroncoBuff
02-13-2010, 12:57 PM
He can say whatever the hell he wants to the media, but he reportedly (from credible sources) wanted a trade as soon as Bates was gone and then publicly demanded a trade later, refused to meet one on one with Josh and did not return Bowlen's phone calls.
You are (or were?) a lawyer. If this was a court of law and Jay Cutler was on trial for allegedly wanting a trade, do you think he could beat the charges given the evidence.
I sure don't.

All of the conduct you describe there falls under Jay's childish tantrum I already descibed. Jay was like Opie Taylor with all his stuff in a bandana tied to a stick, saying he was running away forever. He didn't really want to go, he wanted a certain kind of respect/understanding from Sheriff Andy. Andy handled Opie like an adult should handle a child ... much differently than Josh handled the player.

I don't believe Jay really wanted to go ... and I'm the only juror ballot that matters to me anymore ;D

Dagmar
02-13-2010, 12:58 PM
Interesting you point that out .... I just edited my post you quoted above. read the bolded part:



I definitely see why you think that, but I'm pretty sure he didn't really want to leave. That was fairy evident in his reaction the day he was traded, remember? He made a couple of strange, wide-eyed remarks like "I didn't want this."

He wanted Josh to give him some personal respect face to face. In a childish way he just wanted some 'cover' so he could come back with ego intact. Josh's "trade talks" probably didn't go very far, but Jay got wind of them and reacted badly. Josh is also, imho, pretty egotistical and even childish too, as evident after the preseason Bears game when he (I think in frustration from losing the game) took a shot a Jay.

Josh always refused to give 'the player' the kind of treatment adults should give children to keep them happy, most evident in the bad results in those meetings. That's what you get sometimes when you hire a 32 year-old to manage 53 rich young guys.

In my opinion, and this is where we differ and can agree to be amicable I hope, Josh is the boss and Jay was not. Josh needs to be respected by 53 exorbitantly rich young men, not just one. I am sure it could have been handled better by all sides but we will never come to a resolution in this.

Buff, to many on here Jay's childish attitude had begun to bother us long before Shanahan was fired and Josh was installed.

It is what it is.

tsiguy96
02-13-2010, 01:06 PM
I definitely see why you think that, but I'm pretty sure he didn't really want to leave. That was fairy evident in his reaction the day he was traded, remember? He made a couple of strange, wide-eyed remarks like "I didn't want this."

He wanted Josh to give him some personal respect face to face. In a childish way he just wanted some 'cover' so he could come back with ego intact. Josh's "trade talks" probably didn't go very far, but Jay got wind of them and reacted badly. Josh is also, imho, pretty egotistical and even childish too, as evident after the preseason Bears game when he (I think in frustration from losing the game) took a shot a Jay.

Josh always refused to give 'the player' the kind of treatment adults should give children to keep them happy, most evident in the bad results in those meetings. That's what you get sometimes when you hire a 32 year-old to manage 53 rich young guys.

i think you forgot cutler was going around high fiving teammates at vanderbilt after he found out he got traded.

cutler wanted out, and got it, and most of us are pretty happy about it.

BroncoMan4ever
02-13-2010, 01:15 PM
All of the conduct you describe there falls under Jay's childish tantrum I already descibed. Jay was like Opie Taylor with all his stuff in a bandana tied to a stick, saying he was running away forever. He didn't really want to go, he wanted a certain kind of respect/understanding from Sheriff Andy. Andy handled Opie like an adult should handle a child ... much differently than Josh handled the player.

I don't believe Jay really wanted to go ... and I'm the only juror ballot that matters to me anymore ;D

the way i look at the Jay situation. Jay has never been in a situation where he had to work for anything he accomplished. he never had a coach kick his ass and lay down the law. think about it. small town boy in Indiana is better than everyone else on his high school team, no coach is going to get in his best players face, goes to college at Vanderbilt, once again he is the top dog on the team and of course no one is going to call out the star QB, goes to the NFL to the Broncos to a team that has been looking for its suitable replacement to a legend for almost a decade and of course he is coddled again. now in Chicago, they have been looking for their guy since the 50s, so again no one is going to jump on his ass and push him because he is better than anything they have had in decades.

up until McDaniels told him how it was going to be, he had never had a situation where he didn't have everyone kissing his ass. he never had to mature. he got by on natural athletic ability and never bothered to grow the mental ability to put the god given talent to use.

and Josh treated him how a player in the NFL should be treated. you don't bend to a players will, just because he is upset that the coach answered a phone call, especially when to date that player has done nothing to warrant having any kind of authority with the team.

BroncoMan4ever
02-13-2010, 01:21 PM
to many on here Jay's childish attitude had begun to bother us long before Shanahan was fired and Josh was installed.

exactly. his attitude on the field even to his biggest supporters had to be a problem. the moping when the team was down was a big problem to me.

i mean you look at the true greats at the position and they didn't mope when their was still time left in the game. they may have been down at the time but they relished the opportunity to throw caution to the wind and go for a comeback, or just chomping at the bit for one last shot on the field to possibly do something special.

with Jay the moment the team fell behind and he moped every Broncos fan in the back of their minds knew the game was over. he never did anything to give a fan hope that he could lead the team back.

WolfpackGuy
02-13-2010, 01:25 PM
Even with the moping and turnovers, was it worth it to get rid of Cutler when you look at what the team got in return?

Dagmar
02-13-2010, 03:03 PM
Even with the moping and turnovers, was it worth it to get rid of Cutler when you look at what the team got in return?

http://i50.tinypic.com/2ustrfp.png

Better stats, no beetus and a Neckbeard.

http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/ortonjack.gif

BroncoMan4ever
02-13-2010, 05:08 PM
Even with the moping and turnovers, was it worth it to get rid of Cutler when you look at what the team got in return?

Orton outplayed him. so many say Orton is mediocre and we need an upgrade, but looking at it that way, a guy many believe should be a backup at best outplayed Cutler.

i think we made the right move getting rid of him while his value was still high.

baja
02-13-2010, 09:03 PM
<b>i think you forgot cutler was going around high fiving teammates at vanderbilt after he found out he got traded.</b>



cutler wanted out, and got it, and most of us are pretty happy about it.

Through all the Cutler/McD saga I had never heard this before. Is this true? Is it on video?

rastaman
02-13-2010, 09:38 PM
i honestly think in Martz pass happy offense Jay could wind up setting a new single season mark for INTs.

that type of offense is for a more disciplined QB who is adept to locating his checkdowns and using them. Jay in balanced offenses that use the run a lot is always looking for the deep pass or locking onto his receiver and throw a ton of INTs, put him in an offense where he is free to simply throw all day and it is likely his INT numbers could rocket up.

I think your scenario comes to fruition should Cutler and the Bears WR's fail to work out on their own during the off season to get their timing down and familiarity with each others tendencies. Of course it wouldn't hurt if Martz joined them as well.

I believe last year Turner had no choice but to pass more b/c the OL was riddled with injuries. There's a reason Matt Forte struggled so badly last year after getting rookie of the year consideration in 2008 by rushing for over 1200 yds.

Also, Cutler has talented corp of WR's in Devin Hester, Earl Bennett, Johnny Knox and Devin Aromashodu. If Martz can get Cutler to make better reads and keep Cutler interceptions down to 18 or less and improve the OL to get Matt Forte back on track; the Bears can greatly improve upon their 7-9 finish.

Here's reason for optimism with the Bears receiving corp:

Hester established career highs with 57 receptions for 757 yards despite missing three games late in the season.

The dynamic fourth-year pro turned a short Jay Cutler pass into a 36-yard touchdown with 1:52 remaining Sept. 27 in Seattle to transform a 19-17 deficit into a 25-19 victory.

Hester’s most productive outing came in a Week 7 loss at Cincinnati when he caught eight passes for 101 yards—the first 100-yard game of his career—including a 5-yard TD.

After failing to catch any passes in limited action as a rookie in 2008, Bennett had 54 receptions for 717 yards and 2 TDs in his second NFL season. He was the only Bears wide receiver to catch at least one pass in all 16 games. Bennett also returned a punt 49 yards for a TD in a Week 15 loss at Baltimore.

Bennett (15) and Hester (12), both of whom averaged 13.3 yards per reception, were one of 10 wide receiver tandems in the NFL to each catch at least 12 passes of 20 or more yards.

A fifth-round draft pick from Abilene Christian, Knox emerged as a star. He became the first Bears rookie since Hall of Famer Walter Payton in 1975 to score a touchdown in four straight games, and his 102-yard kickoff return score against the Lions was the second longest in Bears history.

Knox’s 45 receptions tied for third most by a Bears rookie and tied for the most by a rookie wide receiver in team history. His 527 yards were the fifth most by a Bears rookie receiver. Knox’s six total TDs tied for fifth among NFL rookies, trailing only Broncos running back Knowshon Moreno (9), Vikings receiver Percy Harvin (8), Cardinals running back Beanie Wells (7) and Colts receiver Austin Collie (7).

Aromashodu, a Cutler favorite since training camp, developed into a go-to receiver late in the season. Aromashodu caught 22 passes for 282 yards and 4 TDs in the final four games after compiling nine receptions for 112 yards and no TDs in 12 career contests prior to Week 14.

Aromashodu’s four TD catches over the final four weeks tied for the second most in the NFL during that span behind Colts tight end Dallas Clark, who had five scores. In the last two games, Aromashodu caught a 39-yard TD pass from Cutler to beat the Vikings in overtime before hauling in two scoring grabs in the season finale in Detroit.

Aromashodu’s 150 yards versus Minnesota were the most by a Bears player since Marty Booker had 157 yards Oct. 24, 2002 in an overtime victory over the Lions.

Martz has got to like what has on the offensive side of the ball to work with thats for sure.

rastaman
02-13-2010, 09:53 PM
Even with the moping and turnovers, was it worth it to get rid of Cutler when you look at what the team got in return?

I think right now its too early to tell. I think long term it will be proven Denver let go of Cutler to be a major blunder. Especially if 3 years from now Cutler is an elite QB and Denver is w/o an elite QB and McD has been fired.

We may have gotten two number 1 draft picks for trading Cutler, but if those draft picks don't pan out to be impact players with Pro bowls in their future and Cutler returns to his pro bowl form.....then Cutler and the Bears win, and Denver blows it.

Point is, there are unknowns right now to say which organization will benefit from the trade and the draft picks. However, something tells me......long term we will regret getting rid of Cutler.

Here's something else to consider, the Bears drafted their WR Johnny Knox with the 5th round pick they got from Denver for the Cutler trade, and Knox's statistically was right up there with Moreno who was drafted in the 1st round. Not saying that Ayers is going to be a bust, however, the clock is ticking when you're a number one pick. 2010 and 2011 will be keyes to evaluating whether Ayer's was a bust as a number one pick. Ayers could be McD's version of Shanahan's Moss as the number one pick.