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Bronco Rob
02-08-2010, 07:48 PM
Donovan McNabb and the Denver Broncos: What do trade talks mean for Kyle Orton?


By Michael Roberts, Feb. 8 2010 @ 12:55PM


if you think the Broncos' quarterback situation is stable, think again. This weekend, ESPN's Sal Paolantonio reported that Denver's had multiple conversations with the Philadelphia Eagles about the availability of QB Donovan McNabb.

Is a deal likely to be reached between these two teams for a player as high profile as McNabb? Survey says unlikely -- although this time last year, most observers would have bet money on a bromance developing between Jay Cutler and Josh McDaniels. But even if nothing happens, there's little doubt that the continuing search isn't good news for Kyle Orton.

The assumption on the part of many fans is that the team would look for a new quarterback to groom and keep Orton around in a caretaker role. But McNabb is hardly a fresh-faced rookie. He's 33, with a decade-plus in the league under his belt, not to mention a history of injuries that have spawned oodles of criticism -- much of it undeserved, but still.

Given McNabb's age, however, he'd only make sense for the Broncos as someone to keep the center's butt warm for a younger quarterback -- suggesting that McDaniels and company aren't even confident Orton can handle a gap-filling role.

That's a long fall for KO from October of last year, when plenty of folks were comparing him favorably to Cutler, in part because of his unexpectedly healthy winning percentage. That's what losing six of the season's last eight games can do to a reputation.

Even if a McNabb deal doesn't happen, Orton shouldn't get comfortable -- because Coach McD appears to be in a shopping-around mood.




http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2010/02/donovan_mcnabb_and_the_denver.php

tsiguy96
02-08-2010, 07:51 PM
countdown til orton stops answering his phone calls from bowlen?

SoCalBronco
02-08-2010, 07:53 PM
Even if a McNabb deal doesn't happen, Orton shouldn't get comfortable -- because Coach McD appears to be in a shopping-around mood.



Good. I fully applaud McDaniels and the FO for being aggressive on this issue. It shows they recognize the obvious and painful problem at QB. It is real and it is there and it needs to be addressed. Good for them that they're already talking to people and trying to improve this area. Not sure how I feel about McNabb specifically...he is an upgrade for sure, but I would strongly prefer a real long-term solution and he isn't one.

Punisher
02-08-2010, 07:53 PM
Please i hope we don't get McNabb he sucks balls

Atwater His Ass
02-08-2010, 07:53 PM
McNabb would also be a stop gap until we can get a QB of the future. However, McNabb is light years better than Orton and would be a good move in my mind.

TheDave
02-08-2010, 07:58 PM
If this is real, and they are this down on Orton... I wish we would have dangled cutler out there a little longer and gotten someone else.

or traded up and gotten Sanchez...

I hope this is just an Internet rumor run amok

DBroncos4life
02-08-2010, 08:06 PM
If this is real, and they are this down on Orton... I wish we would have dangled cutler out there a little longer and gotten someone else.

or traded up and gotten Sanchez...

I hope this is just an Internet rumor run amok

Both Pat and McD said they wanted Orton back so you know what that means. :P

BroncoMan4ever
02-08-2010, 08:10 PM
McNabb would also be a stop gap until we can get a QB of the future. However, McNabb is light years better than Orton and would be a good move in my mind.

the thing with McNabb is will he learn the system well enough for the talent gap between him and Orton to be evident? because if Orton in his 2nd season is going to play as well as McNabb in his 1st season in Denver, it makes no sense to trade valuable picks away for McNabb.

i am looking at it this way. McNabb is a talented QB, but not very smart, fragile and near the end of his career. even if we got him, the search for a QBOTF is still in progress and he may only be of use for a season or 2.

the asking price for the guy will probably be a minimum of a 2nd and at his age and the injury risk, he isn't worth it.

in fact i would bet more that we called about Kolb and not McNabb. Young talented, itching to finally get the opportunity to start and able to fill the role of QB for now, and QBOTF.

SoDak Bronco
02-08-2010, 08:11 PM
If you don't have a top tier qB you are always looking to upgrade...i hope we draft a stud qb, bc that is going to insure long term success. n

elsid13
02-08-2010, 08:13 PM
If this is real, and they are this down on Orton... I wish we would have dangled cutler out there a little longer and gotten someone else.

or traded up and gotten Sanchez...

I hope this is just an Internet rumor run amok

Or held onto those thirds to draft McGee out of Texas AM

DBroncos4life
02-08-2010, 08:15 PM
Although we continue to hear speculation of a Donovan McNabb trade to a variety of locations, there have been concurrent signs that Kevin Kolb could be on the move, too.

Eagles TE Brent Celek was on WFAN on Friday morning, and he compared Kolb to Drew Brees, per a tweet from Eagles beat writer Geoff Mosher. Does that mean his career will take off with another team? On Sunday night, Bud Shaw of the Cleveland Plain Dealer wrote that Mike Holmgren and Tom Heckert are on the lookout for their version of Brees. Hmmm.

In comments this past week to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Kolb said, "I want to be a starter in the NFL. ... But I'm going to be a team player. I trust [coach] Andy [Reid]. I trust his decisions and his ability to see what's in the future and plan out my career the right way." Kolb has been spending his time off fishing, per the Star-Telegram. We'll be interested to see whether he catches his wish -- becoming an NFL starting QB -- as well this offseason.

It makes you wonder who people are calling about McNabb or Kolb.

Requiem
02-08-2010, 08:15 PM
Means Kyle Orton is a dumb son of a beeyatch who couldn't throw a football through a tire swing at the local fair to win a child a stuffed Anima.l./

KipCorrington25
02-08-2010, 08:22 PM
My lasting image is of McNabb converting that 3rd and 25 against us with total improvisation something Orton couldn't do in special olympics game.

SoCalBronco
02-08-2010, 08:24 PM
Although we continue to hear speculation of a Donovan McNabb trade to a variety of locations, there have been concurrent signs that Kevin Kolb could be on the move, too.

Eagles TE Brent Celek was on WFAN on Friday morning, and he compared Kolb to Drew Brees, per a tweet from Eagles beat writer Geoff Mosher. Does that mean his career will take off with another team? On Sunday night, Bud Shaw of the Cleveland Plain Dealer wrote that Mike Holmgren and Tom Heckert are on the lookout for their version of Brees. Hmmm.

In comments this past week to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Kolb said, "I want to be a starter in the NFL. ... But I'm going to be a team player. I trust [coach] Andy [Reid]. I trust his decisions and his ability to see what's in the future and plan out my career the right way." Kolb has been spending his time off fishing, per the Star-Telegram. We'll be interested to see whether he catches his wish -- becoming an NFL starting QB -- as well this offseason.

It makes you wonder who people are calling about McNabb or Kolb.

Kolb would be a very, very interesting option. He's got some nice skills that the staff could coach up. That might not be a bad idea at all for us to go after him.

broncswin
02-08-2010, 08:24 PM
Please i hope we don't get McNabb he sucks balls

wow...he sucks balls...are you serious, the guy is a proven winner in this league for over ten years now

broncswin
02-08-2010, 08:26 PM
If you don't have a top tier qB you are always looking to upgrade...i hope we draft a stud qb, bc that is going to insure long term success. n

Really...drafting a stud college QB is not insuring long term success to our team.

Archer81
02-08-2010, 08:26 PM
What does it mean for Orton if we pursue McNabb? 2 things. His lease is month to month, and his tab at Spanky's Liquor Emporium is paid up.


:Broncos:

broncswin
02-08-2010, 08:27 PM
My lasting image is of McNabb converting that 3rd and 25 against us with total improvisation something Orton couldn't do in special olympics game.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

maher_tyler
02-08-2010, 08:31 PM
Good. I fully applaud McDaniels and the FO for being aggressive on this issue. It shows they recognize the obvious and painful problem at QB. It is real and it is there and it needs to be addressed. Good for them that they're already talking to people and trying to improve this area. Not sure how I feel about McNabb specifically...he is an upgrade for sure, but I would strongly prefer a real long-term solution and he isn't one.

I'd say he's got 5 good years left and it's more than Orton will give us! We get McNabb and draft or groom Tom B for the future! I wouldn't be against picking up McNabb at all!!

TonyR
02-08-2010, 08:35 PM
If this is real, and they are this down on Orton... I wish we would have dangled cutler out there a little longer and gotten someone else.


We need to remember to decouple Cutler and Orton. Cutler was not traded for Orton. Orton was acquired to fill the void at the QB position probably with full knowledge that he wasn't likely the long term answer.

elsid13
02-08-2010, 08:40 PM
We need to remember to decouple Cutler and Orton. Cutler was not traded for Orton. Orton was acquired to fill the void at the QB position probably with full knowledge that he wasn't likely the long term answer.

That not exactly true. The trade with Chicago went through, because McDaniels like him better then any of the other QB offered (like Campbell) to run this offense. So you can not decouple the two.

Hamrob
02-08-2010, 08:43 PM
McNabb is a top 10 QB (period). Orton is not.

Orton is a good backup QB. He's a guy you feel comfortable about if you need to lean on your running game and defense in order to win a few games. He's not a guy you build a championship team around.

That being said, you don't find franchise QB's bagging groceries (well maybe you do.).

I would absolutely love to get McNabb this year and then draft a kid like Locker next year. We would be set.

The only problems I see...one was mentioned and that is...how quickl can DNAB learn our system and the second...is, how much will it cost us?

Would you give a 2nd for him?
Would you trade BMarsh for him?
How about BMarsh for DNAB and another player or draft pick?

TheDave
02-08-2010, 08:47 PM
We need to remember to decouple Cutler and Orton. Cutler was not traded for Orton. Orton was acquired to fill the void at the QB position probably with full knowledge that he wasn't likely the long term answer.

Yeah, whatever... in a blockbuster trade like that there shouldn't be any "throw aways". Assuming this is true, and that is a big assumption, then the QB position hs been miss-handled.

Would a jason campbell/Washington trade been better?

If Orton was just a throw-in, then we should have addressed the QB position in the draft.

If they are really looking to dump him already (and again that is a big if) then the Cutler trade continues to confuse me.

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 08:52 PM
Yeah, whatever... in a blockbuster trade like that there shouldn't be any "throw aways". Assuming this is true, and that is a big assumption, then the QB position hs been miss-handled.

Would a jason campbell/Washington trade been better?

If Orton was just a throw-in, then we should have addressed the QB position in the draft.

If they are really looking to dump him already (and again that is a big if) then the Cutler trade continues to confuse me.

The Cutler trade was about the 2 first round picks and Orton. There's nothing confusing about it - they never planned to do it. They did it because Cutler babied his way out.

TonyR
02-08-2010, 08:52 PM
So you can not decouple the two.

I understand what you're saying but I'm going to make my point again: Cutler was not traded for Orton. Put another way, Cutler was not traded for purposes of acquiring Orton. Cutler was traded because some combination of Bowlen, McDaniels, and Ellis wanted Cutler gone. They found what they thought was the best deal for Cutler and that deal included acquiring Kyle Orton from Chicago to play the QB position in Denver for some indeterminate time period. So there is an inherent link between them but I'll say it again in case it hasn't sunk in yet: Jay Cutler was not traded for Kyle Orton.

TheDave
02-08-2010, 08:54 PM
The Cutler trade was about the 2 first round picks and Orton. There's nothing confusing about it - they never planned to do it. They did it because Cutler babied his way out.

Yeah... again, whatever.

We controlled all the cards just like we do with BMarsh. We got Orton because he was part of the package we wanted.

TonyR
02-08-2010, 08:55 PM
Would a jason campbell/Washington trade been better?


That's a whole different discussion. Clearly Josh McD didn't think Campbell fit his offense as well as Orton for whatever reasons we can safely assume he has a lot better perspective on than we ever will. I personally like Campbell better and think he has more talent and upside but for whatever reasons he has been a very inconsistent and unsuccessful NFL QB.

TheDave
02-08-2010, 08:59 PM
That's a whole different discussion. Clearly Josh McD didn't think Campbell fit his offense as well as Orton for whatever reasons we can safely assume he has a lot better perspective on than we ever will. I personally like Campbell better and think he has more talent and upside but for whatever reasons he has been a very inconsistent and unsuccessful NFL QB.

True, but if hee is actually looking to dump Orton already, then his perspective was flawed.

and again, my hope is that this is just a rumor.

IMO we should make fixes to the line, find a way of keeping BMarsh, and see if Orton can grow into the role.

Popps
02-08-2010, 09:15 PM
I've given up on trying to predict these things. But, at gunpoint... I'd suspect McD still plans to have Orton starting next season.

These call rumors sound semi-credible, at best. We shall see.

SportinOne
02-08-2010, 09:17 PM
Whether we get McNabb or not, this is just awesome.

Everyone cuddled up to McDaniels and took everything he said for gospel.

How he hand picked Orton in the Cutler trade because he knew Orton was the right man for the job, not just because he was a throw in.
How you all regurgitated the same crap over and over, making all those excuses for Orton late in the season.

Guess what. There is one man who thinks that Orton probably WON'T get a whole heck of a lot better with an upgraded offensive line and a year in the system.

His name is Josh Mother****ing McDaniels and he eats his own!!!!!!!!!!

Rigs11
02-08-2010, 09:19 PM
unbelievable. so we are basically starting over again with mcnabb. instead of going with orton who has one year under mcd's offense, we bring in a 33 year old qb?WTF?

misturanderson
02-08-2010, 09:23 PM
Whether we get McNabb or not, this is just awesome.

Everyone cuddled up to McDaniels and took everything he said for gospel.

How he hand picked Orton in the Cutler trade because he knew Orton was the right man for the job, not just because he was a throw in.
How you all regurgitated the same crap over and over, making all those excuses for Orton late in the season.

Guess what. There is one man who thinks that Orton probably WON'T get a whole heck of a lot better with an upgraded offensive line and a year in the system.

His name is Josh Mother****ing McDaniels and he eats his own!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing that has happened even remotely counts as proof that McD doesn't want Orton to be our starting QB next year, let alone that he thinks he made the wrong choice choosing Orton over Campbell. It also doesn't prove that Orton is a below average QB like you believe, despite evidence to the contrary.

BigPlayShay
02-08-2010, 09:24 PM
unbelievable. so we are basically starting over again with mcnabb. instead of going with orton who has one year under mcd's offense, we bring in a 33 year old qb?WTF?

Sorta like when Shanahan brought in Chris Miller, and also pursued Steve Young?

SportinOne
02-08-2010, 09:26 PM
Nothing that has happened even remotely counts as proof that McD doesn't want Orton to be our starting QB next year, let alone that he thinks he made the wrong choice choosing Orton over Campbell. It also doesn't prove that Orton is a below average QB like you believe, despite evidence to the contrary.

It doesn't count as proof, this is true. But it would say it does count as evidence of his lack of faith, a little bit more than remotely.

bpc
02-08-2010, 09:27 PM
Who cares what this means to Kyle Orton. The only thing keeping Orton relevant is that McD knows he'll look stupid benching him until he can replace him with somebody who will make him look better... a la McNabb.

Orton is a joke playing in a dump off efficient offense. He doesn't look half as good as Griese would have playing in this system.

Bigdawg26
02-08-2010, 09:27 PM
Here we go with this again! De Ja Vu all over again except this Quarterback sucks and McNabb is awesome, but I still wouldn't give up more than a second for him.

TheReverend
02-08-2010, 10:19 PM
Kolb would be a very, very interesting option. He's got some nice skills that the staff could coach up. That might not be a bad idea at all for us to go after him.

He concerns me in this system. He's been a shotgun/WCO player since high school and the similarities stop at the short passing game.

Now I'm certain he's capable of adjusting to a lot more pro form snaps than he saw in Houston or Philly, and I'm sure the endless barrage of bubble screens won't exactly be challenging him, but hopefully there's a lot more in the arsenal that went unused due to Kyle Orton's limited skill set.

DBroncos4life
02-08-2010, 10:21 PM
Kolb would be a very, very interesting option. He's got some nice skills that the staff could coach up. That might not be a bad idea at all for us to go after him.

I would rather do that. McNabb is a proven vet but atleast Kolb plays into the talk that we are rebuilding the team. The McNabb move means we think we are close and I just don't see that.

Paladin
02-08-2010, 10:28 PM
Considering that nothing official has happened, talk has nothing to do with Orton. Strange how people around here make assumptions and then just run with it.

uplink
02-08-2010, 10:32 PM
i am looking at it this way. McNabb is a talented QB, but not very smart, fragile and near the end of his career. even if we got him, the search for a QBOTF is still in progress and he may only be of use for a season or 2.

the asking price for the guy will probably be a minimum of a 2nd and at his age and the injury risk, he isn't worth it.


Why don't you think McNabb is smart? I though he was in the top 8-10 QBs in that area. He is not that old really and has another good 5 years left. He would be an absolute steal for a 2nd rounder.

Cool Breeze
02-08-2010, 10:45 PM
Oh my god we may have talked to another team about stuff...
The sky is falling!

I think we are exploring all options - something Cutler couldn't get his head around.

Good for them!

DBroncos4life
02-08-2010, 10:48 PM
He concerns me in this system. He's been a shotgun/WCO player since high school and the similarities stop at the short passing game.

Now I'm certain he's capable of adjusting to a lot more pro form snaps than he saw in Houston or Philly, and I'm sure the endless barrage of bubble screens won't exactly be challenging him, but hopefully there's a lot more in the arsenal that went unused due to Kyle Orton's limited skill set.

Every scouting report says Kolb is very good in short to medium passes. It sounds like he is more mobile then Orton as well. He scored a 28 on the wonderlic test in case anyone cared. The more I read about Kolb the more I think we are contacting the Eagles about him. JMO

Taco John
02-08-2010, 10:48 PM
I'll be suprised if Orton isn't our starting QB in week one.

SouthStndJunkie
02-08-2010, 10:52 PM
I'm just happy that it appears Josh McDaniels and the Broncos realize that Kyle Orton is not the future QB of the team, outside of possibly another year, while we groom or find his replacement.

TheReverend
02-08-2010, 11:08 PM
I'll be suprised if Orton isn't our starting QB in week one.

Yes, but at this time last year, everyone on the planet would've said "I'd be surprised if Orton was sitting on top of an NFL depth chart anywhere in week one."

azbroncfan
02-08-2010, 11:27 PM
The bears make a big three team trade and get Orton back. The deal falls out at last minute and Jay sits out 2010 season because his feelings are hurt and he doesn't trust anyone.

BroncoMan4ever
02-08-2010, 11:44 PM
Why don't you think McNabb is smart? I though he was in the top 8-10 QBs in that area. He is not that old really and has another good 5 years left. He would be an absolute steal for a 2nd rounder.

just recent events of him not knowing rules of the game he has played for over a decade make me think he isn't exactly the sharpest QB

and i don't mean he is old in terms of age, I mean old in terms of wear and tear on the body. he is starting to look more and more like McNair in his final seasons, the heart and mind want it, but the body is starting to go. it won't last another 5 years.

Popps
02-09-2010, 12:21 AM
Who cares what this means to Kyle Orton. The only thing keeping Orton relevant is that McD knows he'll look stupid benching him until he can replace him with somebody who will make him look better... a la McNabb.

Orton is a joke playing in a dump off efficient offense. He doesn't look half as good as Griese would have playing in this system.


Hey, everyone listen to BPC, O.K.? He's the guy who told us Cutler would be a huge success in Chicago.

So, his track record is AWESOME.

Listen to him.

TheReverend
02-09-2010, 01:00 AM
Hey, everyone listen to BPC, O.K.? He's the guy who told us Cutler would be a huge success in Chicago.

So, his track record is AWESOME.

Listen to him.

You act like that story already came to it's end when actually it's just getting started.

On the other hand, if rumors are true, McDaniels may very well be writing Kyle Orton's ending.

BroncoMan4ever
02-09-2010, 01:28 AM
You act like that story already came to it's end when actually it's just getting started.



the story of Cutler as a viable option as an NFL starter is not over yet. I agree with you there, but he is running out of time and chances to get his **** together before his story is written and he goes down in history as Jeff George 2.0

think of QBs in the last decade of the NFL. how many of those QBs with a ton of potential but without the mental ability to put it together keep their jobs long? how many guys throwing 3 INTs for every 4 TDs (or this season 1 TD for every 1 INT) remain as starters? how many of those guys who have career win total's below .500 remain starters.

Cutler has not matured at all. he has not stepped up his game at all, he has not changed one thing about his game from his rookie year. in fact if you look at last season, he is actually regressing.

potential will only buy you a pass from your employer for so long, eventually they will start to look at the results and realize the results are not indicitive of the potential and the team will go in a new direction.

another season like this year, and don't be surprised if Jay is the talk of potential trades, possible release, or that the Bears are on the lookout for a guy like McNabb to come in and either demote Jay to 2nd string or push him to get better.

TheReverend
02-09-2010, 01:35 AM
think of QBs in the last decade of the NFL. how many of those QBs with a ton of potential but without the mental ability to put it together keep their jobs long? how many guys throwing 3 INTs for every 4 TDs (or this season 1 TD for every 1 INT) remain as starters? how many of those guys who have career win total's below .500 remain starters.

Cutler has not matured at all. he has not stepped up his game at all, he has not changed one thing about his game from his rookie year. in fact if you look at last season, he is actually regressing.

potential will only buy you a pass from your employer for so long, eventually they will start to look at the results and realize the results are not indicitive of the potential and the team will go in a new direction.

another season like this year, and don't be surprised if Jay is the talk of potential trades, possible release, or that the Bears are on the lookout for a guy like McNabb to come in and either demote Jay to 2nd string or push him to get better.

Bolded statement is where your post ends man and I disagree with nearly everything you had to say.

That being said, time will tell and I really have no desire or care to rehash this discussion out for the 10,000th time when it really doesn't concern me whatsoever.

extralife
02-09-2010, 01:45 AM
Sorta like when Shanahan brought in Chris Miller, and also pursued Steve Young?

oh god don't remind me of this. if we convince Young to play for a year or two more, TD doesn't get killed and we compete for another super bowl :(

Steve still had it in him and he and Shanny were made for each other :(

BroncoMan4ever
02-09-2010, 01:48 AM
Bolded statement is where your post ends man and I disagree with nearly everything you had to say.

That being said, time will tell and I really have no desire or care to rehash this discussion out for the 10,000th time when it really doesn't concern me whatsoever.

to each their own opinion, but i thank you for stopping the Cutler talk before it really got heated. the guy doesn't matter to this franchise anymore so who cares anymore.

bpc
02-09-2010, 01:57 AM
Hey, everyone listen to BPC, O.K.? He's the guy who told us Cutler would be a huge success in Chicago.

So, his track record is AWESOME.

Listen to him.

I love in your hatred of Cutler, you married the success of your argument to Kyle Orton. spin, Spin, SPIN!!! ha ha.

I cannot truly state HOW much I absolutely love that. I think it's amazing. You're 100% guaranteed to look like foolish down the road. And in the end, you'll flip flop, redirect, blame potential failure on Shanahan, or the CBA. Just putting the spotlight on you before it happens.

It's great.

The best thing that could happen to you is McNabb getting you out of the corner you backed yourself into because at least he's been a quality pro, which would relegate your "chosen one" to the bench.

TheReverend
02-09-2010, 01:58 AM
to each their own opinion, but i thank you for stopping the Cutler talk before it really got heated. the guy doesn't matter to this franchise anymore so who cares anymore.

^

Though I do still like him and think he'll end up immensely successful in the league... I just don't give a ****

bpc
02-09-2010, 02:02 AM
to each their own opinion, but i thank you for stopping the Cutler talk before it really got heated. the guy doesn't matter to this franchise anymore so who cares anymore.

Obviously popps does, which is why he came to his boy's defense by invoking another public Cutler bashing.

long beach bronco
02-09-2010, 05:23 AM
Orton is a real good guy and I like him, but he just can't move in the pocket and is horrified to take off and run which I think killed many of our drives and stalled this offense on numerous occasions. We need a mobile, bootlegging, pocket awareness QB that will keep this offense moving.

WolfpackGuy
02-09-2010, 06:43 AM
If the offense is really that hamstrung because of Orton's limitations, get him outta there.

I don't see the Broncos being strong enough to hide him for at least a few years.

cmhargrove
02-09-2010, 06:51 AM
I heard on the light rail that we were trading our first, second, and B-Marsh for Michael Vick.

broncofan7
02-09-2010, 06:52 AM
this just reaffirms what myself and many of the so called 'haters' have been saying--Orton is a bottom 3rd NFL QB.......HOMERS EVEN YOUR FEARLESS LEADER RECOGNIZES ORTON'S INEPTITUDE. and Bowlen has served notice to McGenius that it is playoffs in 2010 or back to coaching with his Dad..

bronclvr
02-09-2010, 07:23 AM
I really like Mcnabb (as a person), and I think he's pretty darn good QB, but he seems to have an injury bug-while I don't think he's our replacement Elway, he would certainly be a step up from Orton in the long ball and broken plays (although Orton appears to one tough SOB and the lockeroom likes him)-

I wonder what his completion ratio is vs. Orton?

misturanderson
02-09-2010, 07:33 AM
I wonder what his completion ratio is vs. Orton?

60.3 for McNabb, vs. 62.1 for Orton, though McNabb gained an extra yard per play compared to Orton.

jhns
02-09-2010, 07:33 AM
What is funny is that people here still argue that Orton is good. I don't get it. Don't you guys watch the games? It is good to see our Madden generation coach is already getting trade happy this offseason. Trade your 25 year old pro bowl QB for Orton and then start looking for trades for another QB within a year. Well done McDaniels. You have no chance of getting GM powers at your next stop.

Broncomutt
02-09-2010, 07:36 AM
If we got McNabb would he be able to put up with the same scathing abuse that McDaniels dumped on Orton this year? The abuse that everybody here (myself included) said would have made Cutler cry. When you're a journeyman like Orton, or worthless like Simms, I guess you don't really have a choice, you take what you can get.

But I'm not sure a 10 year vet who has had success in this league is going to like suddenly being screamed at all the time. McNabb is used to be treated like a professional. Andy Reid doesn't seem like the type of coach prone to tantrums.

Like Jeff Fisher said, "Good luck in free agency." ???

WolfpackGuy
02-09-2010, 07:45 AM
This is all making last year's trade look even dumber and dumber.

elsid13
02-09-2010, 07:54 AM
This is all making last year's trade look even dumber and dumber.

But we have midget Cornerback. Everyone loves little people.

oubronco
02-09-2010, 08:01 AM
we should've just traded up and took Sanchez last year but if we are going to trade with Philly I would rather have Kolb

TheDave
02-09-2010, 08:04 AM
we should've just traded up and took Sanchez last year but if we are going to trade with Philly I would rather have Kolb

This^

If this turns out to be true, and Orton was no more than a stop gap we should have done more behind the scenes last year.

elsid13
02-09-2010, 08:09 AM
we should've just traded up and took Sanchez last year but if we are going to trade with Philly I would rather have Kolb

That wasn't going to happen. McDaniels didn't even work him out, he sent Xanders and McCoy to USC. The was to much faith in the freaking system. Systems work a helluva lot better when you have QB that can make things happen.

2KBack
02-09-2010, 08:27 AM
Orton is a real good guy and I like him, but he just can't move in the pocket and is horrified to take off and run which I think killed many of our drives and stalled this offense on numerous occasions. We need a mobile, bootlegging, pocket awareness QB that will keep this offense moving.

This is seriously a myth as far as I'm concerned. Everyone seems to focus on the times he was sacked and not the times he escaped and ran. Look, QB's are not often expected to run. Here's a list of QB's that had fewer rushing yards than Orton last season:
Warner
Schaub
P.Manning
Favre
Brady
Brees
Ryan
Flacco
Delhomme
Henne
E.Manning
Rivers
Smith

This tells me that either Orton ran the ball more than these guys or was more effective when doing it. That is a hell of a list of QB's. How many MVPs, Championships, and probowls are on this list? The best offenses do not ask their QB's to run.

Pocket awareness is another story, and while I don't think Kyle's is as bad as other people here, I do think it is something he can improve on as he gets familiar with his offensive line.

Honestly, the lack of mobility complaint sounds like an excuse to dislike Orton, and is extremely exaggerated. Much like the arm strength thing. It's like the only QB Bronco fans can compare guys to is Elway.

summerdenver
02-09-2010, 08:35 AM
This^

If this turns out to be true, and Orton was no more than a stop gap we should have done more behind the scenes last year.

We can always do that next year. If McD does not turn out to be the answer, it will also give the next coach a chance to build with his own guy.

Broncos_OTM
02-09-2010, 08:39 AM
Obviously popps does, which is why he came to his boy's defense by invoking another public Cutler bashing.
i personally am sick and tired of you and popps. and your bickering. give it a ****ing rest kids. Jesus are you guys two? may i suggest a Orangemane Celebrity Death match.

WolfpackGuy
02-09-2010, 08:55 AM
But we have midget Cornerback. Everyone loves little people.

How bout it? Maybe he can get his own show too.

The QB position was seemingly filled for several years before the trade. Even if McNabb is brought in, the team is going to have to look for a QB AGAIN a few years down the road.

elsid13
02-09-2010, 09:01 AM
How bout it? Maybe he can get his own show too.

The QB position was seemingly filled for several years before the trade. Even if McNabb is brought in, the team is going to have to look for a QB AGAIN a few years down the road.

Yes it did, and yes it will be. But with lack of quality QBs in this draft, it better to stick with what we got and wait til next season, hoping there is no lock-out.

WolfpackGuy
02-09-2010, 09:05 AM
Yes it did, and yes it will be. But with lack of quality QBs in this draft, it better to stick with what we got and wait til next season, hoping there is no lock-out.

Yeah, I'm not overly impressed with this year's QB crop outside of maybe using a later round pick on one.

TonyR
02-09-2010, 09:41 AM
we should've just traded up and took Sanchez last year...

This is such revisionist history. I don't recall very many people here being very high on Sanchez coming into the draft. And when you go look at his numbers he was really a very mediocre QB this year but he did play pretty well in the playoffs. He has more talent and upside, and he'll be a better QB than Orton, but we wouldn't have been any better this year with him and very possibly would have been worse. And by the way, trading up to get him would have really compromised our ability to do much else.

oubronco
02-09-2010, 09:43 AM
This is such revisionist history. I don't recall very many people here being very high on Sanchez coming into the draft. And when you go look at his numbers he was really a very mediocre QB this year but he did play pretty well in the playoffs. He has more talent and upside, and he'll be a better QB than Orton, but we wouldn't have been any better this year with him and very possibly would have been worse. And by the way, trading up to get him would have really compromised our ability to do much else.

Being in his first year i'd say he had a pretty good year and with McD being a QB genius he would have succeeded in our offense

Drek
02-09-2010, 09:48 AM
This^

If this turns out to be true, and Orton was no more than a stop gap we should have done more behind the scenes last year.

Every QB is a stop gap until you find a Brady/Manning/Brees type franchise cornerstone.

Orton is a good QB, McNabb is a very good QB with moments of greatness in his career. The organization needs to weigh the cost of McNabb versus what those resources could do for the rest of the team.

If for example McNabb was going to cost a 3rd round pick then it'd be pretty hard to argue that the upgrade from Orton to McNabb would be worth less than someone we could draft at that spot.

If he costs a 2nd? Well, then it starts getting questionable because we need help on the lines and this draft looks to have some real quality linemen who will likely go in the 2nd rounds (most of the guards for example).

If McDaniels stopped kicking the tires on upgrades just because Orton was his boy then he should be fired post haste.

bronco militia
02-09-2010, 09:49 AM
we should've just traded up and took Sanchez last year but if we are going to trade with Philly I would rather have Kolb

the problem with that logic is that no one would have agreed with you until about week 10 of this year. the jets were winning despite his play for most of the year

Ray Finkle
02-09-2010, 09:52 AM
Being in his first year i'd say he had a pretty good year and with McD being a QB genius he would have succeeded in our offense

the league is littered with rookie QB's that have good first seasons and do little after that. Now, I am not saying Sanchez will be a bust, I think he will be good because of his footwork/accuracy. Matt Ryan was a golden boy last year and fell to earth this year.

TonyR
02-09-2010, 09:54 AM
Being in his first year i'd say he had a pretty good year and with McD being a QB genius he would have succeeded in our offense

He was the 28th rated passer in the league. Orton's numbers were better across the board. The Jets won with defense.

Again, I'd rather have Sanchez than Orton going forward. But hating on McD for not moving up to take him? I don't recall much support for such a move before, during, or after the draft last year.

TonyR
02-09-2010, 09:57 AM
the problem with that logic is that no one would have agreed with you until about week 10 of this year. the jets were winning despite his play for most of the year

Exactly. I like his potential but he's really nothing special at this point. Orton was actually a better QB this year. People literally manufacturing new reasons to complain. A bunch of regular Thomas Edisons when it comes to inventing new ways to gripe.

oubronco
02-09-2010, 09:59 AM
He was the 28th rated passer in the league. Orton's numbers were better across the board. The Jets won with defense.

Again, I'd rather have Sanchez than Orton going forward. But hating on McD for not moving up to take him? I don't recall much support for such a move before, during, or after the draft last year.

I'm not hating on McD for not moving up to get him, just sayin i'd rather of done that than trade for McNabb after trading Cutler and going with Orton for one year

oubronco
02-09-2010, 09:59 AM
Exactly. I like his potential but he's really nothing special at this point. Orton was actually a better QB this year. People literally manufacturing new reasons to complain. A bunch of regular Thomas Edisons when it comes to inventing new ways to gripe.

again i'm not griping your jumping to conclusions

TonyR
02-09-2010, 10:02 AM
again i'm not griping your jumping to conclusions

That's fair. Apologies if I assumed incorrectly.

~Crash~
02-09-2010, 10:11 AM
Hey, everyone listen to BPC, O.K.? He's the guy who told us Cutler would be a huge success in Chicago.

So, his track record is AWESOME.

Listen to him.

So he has completely failed wow popps says so , so this must be true.

Bronco Rob
02-09-2010, 10:25 AM
Eagles must make Donovan McNabb decision by early May



Donovan McNabb is due a $6.2 million roster bonus in early May. If he’s still part of the organization, that is. The timing of that bonus isn’t a coincidence. It gives the Eagles and the veteran time to take a look at the big picture before making any more commitments. Like Vick, McNabb is in the last year of his contract. — Delco Times



http://benmaller.com/nfl/#1

rastaman
02-09-2010, 10:48 AM
McNabb would also be a stop gap until we can get a QB of the future. However, McNabb is light years better than Orton and would be a good move in my mind.

McNabb baring injuries would give the Broncos a significant upgrade and 3 or 4years of reliable QB play while the Broncos draft, develop or sign a long term QB.

Beantown Bronco
02-09-2010, 10:50 AM
McNabb baring injuries would give the Broncos a significant upgrade and 3 or 4years of reliable QB play while the Broncos draft, develop or sign a long term QB.

For emphasis.

5 out of the last 6 years, you couldn't say that about him. I don't see it all of a sudden happening now at his age and with his physical style of play.

Doggcow
02-09-2010, 10:50 AM
McNabb baring injuries would give the Broncos a significant upgrade and 3 or 4years of reliable QB play while the Broncos draft, develop or sign a long term QB.

This is how I feel. I think McNabb could instantly make our team much better.

Also frees us from needing a QB as soon. Then we can do what Pitt did and plop a QB into a well oiled machine and let him rip.

cmhargrove
02-09-2010, 02:03 PM
This is such revisionist history. I don't recall very many people here being very high on Sanchez coming into the draft. And when you go look at his numbers he was really a very mediocre QB this year but he did play pretty well in the playoffs. He has more talent and upside, and he'll be a better QB than Orton, but we wouldn't have been any better this year with him and very possibly would have been worse. And by the way, trading up to get him would have really compromised our ability to do much else.

I'm with 'ya.

The Jets started winning because they were so successful in the run game, and their defense was "best in the league" for a stretch at the end of the season. They actually started winning again when they scaled back on the number of attempts for Sanchez.

Hamrob
02-09-2010, 04:09 PM
DNAB is about a 2game swing from Orton in my opinion. I think he'd have that much of an impact. Then if we could improve our lines and running game...we'd be contenders.

With Orton...same rules apply...but we're fighting for a wild card instead of contending for a Championship.

I think Orton can help get us 10 wins. McNabb can help win 12.

Just my opinion.

broncswin
02-09-2010, 04:32 PM
DNAB is about a 2game swing from Orton in my opinion. I think he'd have that much of an impact. Then if we could improve our lines and running game...we'd be contenders.

With Orton...same rules apply...but we're fighting for a wild card instead of contending for a Championship.

I think Orton can help get us 10 wins. McNabb can help win 12.

Just my opinion.

couldn't have said it better myself Ham..:thumbsup:

strafen
02-09-2010, 05:35 PM
McNabb baring injuries would give the Broncos a significant upgrade and 3 or 4years of reliable QB play while the Broncos draft, develop or sign a long term QB.After reading and listening to numerous comments about McNabb possibly being dealt to Denver, it kinda makes sense.
IF we're not going with a young QB next year, which is what we all hope someday to have, then having McNabb is not a bad idea.
You have a choice of two evils here: Orton or McNabb. I'll take McNabb any day if that's all we have to choose from.
That said, grooming a QB in the meantime will be nice, but I think we have a greater chance to make the play-offs and go deeper into the play-offs with McNabb than with Orton.
Orton can have 5 years in the system and Orton will still be the player he is today and in 5 years from now.
True story...

Beantown Bronco
02-09-2010, 05:40 PM
Orton can have 5 years in the system and Orton will still be the player he is today and in 5 years from now.
True story...

all evidence to the contrary.

This guy just had a career year by far and it was only his first season in a completely new system, with a new supporting cast/coach/etc AND he was hurt for over half of it. If he can make that kind of leap in one year, how can you be so sure of what he could do in the future? You can't.

blackpower
02-09-2010, 05:49 PM
kyle should be traded

Broncos4tw
02-09-2010, 05:54 PM
all evidence to the contrary.

This guy just had a career year by far and it was only his first season in a completely new system, with a new supporting cast/coach/etc AND he was hurt for over half of it. If he can make that kind of leap in one year, how can you be so sure of what he could do in the future? You can't.

He is limited by his physical abilities. Regardless of how well he picked up the system (which I debate - how many audibles did he call? None?), he isn't going to magically get a more accurate throw, or better on his feet, or better pocket presence. He is what he is. And that's an average to PERHAPS slightly better than average QB. Decent leadership, nice guy, strong arm, but inaccurate. Doesn't scramble for squat, and is attracted to the turn like a magnet. Keep in mind a lot of his yards were YAC by Marshall.

Look at the QB teams. Brees throwing with players hanging off of him. Under pressure. Manning doing the same. Brees at a critical time, completing 10 consecutive passes to lead his team back. I don't see Orton ever doing this against a premier team. Which is the point. If he can do this against crappy teams, great. If he can't do it against premier teams, we never get to let alone win, the SB.

errand
02-09-2010, 05:55 PM
If this is real, and they are this down on Orton... I wish we would have dangled cutler out there a little longer and gotten someone else.

or traded up and gotten Sanchez...

I hope this is just an Internet rumor run amok

Yeah dangle a QB that threw 26 INT's...or draft one that threw 20. Sheer genius!

misturanderson
02-09-2010, 06:00 PM
Being in his first year i'd say he had a pretty good year and with McD being a QB genius he would have succeeded in our offense

Except that there has literally not been a rookie QB in the last 30+ years that has had a better year than Orton did this year. The only possible exception would be Marino and he didn't even play his whole rookie year and was a once in a lifetime talent.

And I suggest you look at Sanchez' numbers again if you think he had what could be considered a "good" year. Especially considering he was on a team with the #1 defense and running game in the league.

We would have been much worse this year with a rookie at QB, it's really undebatable.

misturanderson
02-09-2010, 06:07 PM
He is limited by his physical abilities. Regardless of how well he picked up the system (which I debate - how many audibles did he call? None?), he isn't going to magically get a more accurate throw, or better on his feet, or better pocket presence. He is what he is. And that's an average to PERHAPS slightly better than average QB. Decent leadership, nice guy, strong arm, but inaccurate. Doesn't scramble for squat, and is attracted to the turn like a magnet. Keep in mind a lot of his yards were YAC by Marshall.

Look at the QB teams. Brees throwing with players hanging off of him. Under pressure. Manning doing the same. Brees at a critical time, completing 10 consecutive passes to lead his team back. I don't see Orton ever doing this against a premier team. Which is the point. If he can do this against crappy teams, great. If he can't do it against premier teams, we never get to let alone win, the SB.

So Orton wasn't one of the top 5 QBs to play in the league for the last 20 years? Who would've thunk it?

QBs like Brees and Manning are not something your team is guaranteed to obtain if they try hard enough, you have to get ridiculously lucky as well and have a system that fits them perfectly.

And as for the YAC argument, look it up, we had the 13th most YAC and the 13th ranked passing offense. That argument is bull**** at best.

Orton may not take us to the superbowl, but get used to him because he did well enough to get another shot and there really aren't many, if any, better options out there for next year. We may be able to get McNabb, but the only people that think that it is an obvious upgrade (for the additional compensation that he will require) are the same people that refuse to admit that Orton did better than average this last year considering his poor OL play and injuries.

Oddly enough, you seem to be one of those people.

DBroncos4life
02-09-2010, 06:15 PM
So Orton wasn't one of the top 5 QBs to play in the league for the last 20 years? Who would've thunk it?

QBs like Brees and Manning are not something your team is guaranteed to obtain if they try hard enough, you have to get ridiculously lucky as well and have a system that fits them perfectly.

And as for the YAC argument, look it up, we had the 13th most YAC and the 13th ranked passing offense. That argument is bull**** at best.

Orton may not take us to the superbowl, but get used to him because he did well enough to get another shot and there really aren't many, if any, better options out there for next year. We may be able to get McNabb, but the only people that think that it is an obvious upgrade (for the additional compensation that he will require) are the same people that refuse to admit that Orton did better than average this last year considering his poor OL play and injuries.

Oddly enough, you seem to be one of those people.

Isn't that like the main reason why they play the game of football?

misturanderson
02-09-2010, 06:20 PM
Isn't that like the main reason why they play the game of football?

Yeah, and I said he MAY not take us to the Superbowl. It is also possible that he could win a Superbowl like big Ben did in 2005, completely on the backs of his defense and running game, or he could pull a Brees or Warner and get good all of a sudden and carry us to the Superbowl on his back.

No matter how you want to play it we aren't going to have a significantly better QB next year (and if we do get one he will almost certainly not be around much past next year) without throwing away draft picks that we need to fix the various other parts of this team that are broken and need to be fixed before this TEAM is ready to compete for a Superbowl.

Mr.Meanie
02-09-2010, 06:23 PM
Every QB is a stop gap until you find a Brady/Manning/Brees type franchise cornerstone.

Orton is a good QB, McNabb is a very good QB with moments of greatness in his career. The organization needs to weigh the cost of McNabb versus what those resources could do for the rest of the team.

If for example McNabb was going to cost a 3rd round pick then it'd be pretty hard to argue that the upgrade from Orton to McNabb would be worth less than someone we could draft at that spot.

If he costs a 2nd? Well, then it starts getting questionable because we need help on the lines and this draft looks to have some real quality linemen who will likely go in the 2nd rounds (most of the guards for example).

If McDaniels stopped kicking the tires on upgrades just because Orton was his boy then he should be fired post haste.

Common sense in a thread full of over-reaction. Who would have guessed?

DBroncos4life
02-09-2010, 06:27 PM
Yeah, and I said he MAY not take us to the Superbowl. It is also possible that he could win a Superbowl like big Ben did in 2005, completely on the backs of his defense, or he could pull a Brees or Warner and get good all of a sudden and carry us to the Superbowl on his back.

No matter how you want to play it we aren't going to have a significantly better QB next year without throwing away draft picks that we need to fix the various other parts of this team that are broken and need to be fixed before this TEAM is ready to compete for a Superbowl.

LOL I don't view getting a significantly better QB as throwing draft picks away. If you already think their are various parts of the team missing then there is no way you really believe that the D is capable of caring the team like what the Steelers did. I don't have a problem with Orton but my biggest worry is in his "career" year he was still below the top ten QB's in the NFL. And that lead us to 8 wins. If he has a off year then what happens too us?

toad
02-09-2010, 06:28 PM
This is how I feel. I think McNabb could instantly make our team much better.

Also frees us from needing a QB as soon. Then we can do what Pitt did and plop a QB into a well oiled machine and let him rip.

Basically sums up my opinion as well - instant upgrade and, with 4-5 good years left, the need for the QB of the future isn't as urgent.

Definitely would be for bring Donovan in...

errand
02-09-2010, 06:32 PM
Kyle Orton threw for over 3800 yards, 21 TD's and only 12 INT's....his completion pct was over 60%...and he's the problem?

I think we need to look at a defense that while it did improve from the previous year, gave up tons of points down the stretch, and against the better teams...and even surrendered 20 points to an inept Raider's that only hit that many in 3 games all season. Not to mention they gave up over 500 yards and 30 points to the freaking Chiefs.

misturanderson
02-09-2010, 06:53 PM
LOL I don't view getting a significantly better QB as throwing draft picks away. If you already think their are various parts of the team missing then there is no way you really believe that the D is capable of caring the team like what the Steelers did. I don't have a problem with Orton but my biggest worry is in his "career" year he was still below the top ten QB's in the NFL. And that lead us to 8 wins. If he has a off year then what happens too us?

We NEED much better players at DE, LG and C and there are other positions that should arguably be addressed before QB due to the lack of talent/depth. If we want to use a 2nd to get a QB then draft one.

We don't need a QB with a terrible injury history, who costs a ton and has only a few more years left just because he is a slight upgrade over what we have now. Especially not for a 2nd round pick in a draft that is so deep that everyone is complaining that we don't have enough picks as it is.

Worst case scenario for Orton based on his career so far is still better than McNabb's "I'll play 2 games and need to be put on IR for the season, thanks for the paycheck and mortgaging of your future."

DBroncos4life
02-09-2010, 07:08 PM
We NEED much better players at DE, LG and C and there are other positions that should arguably be addressed before QB due to the lack of talent/depth. If we want to use a 2nd to get a QB then draft one.

We don't need a QB with a terrible injury history, who costs a ton and has only a few more years left just because he is a slight upgrade over what we have now. Especially not for a 2nd round pick in a draft that is so deep that everyone is complaining that we don't have enough picks as it is.

Worst case scenario for Orton based on his career so far is still better than McNabb's "I'll play 2 games and need to be put on IR for the season, thanks for the paycheck and mortgaging of your future."

We might have bigger needs at DE (3-4), LG, and C but those are not common picks at the 11th spot in the first round and odds are I don't see us using the 11th pick on either of those three positions. The DE/DT would have the highest chance out of all those three positions to be addressed in the first round and that is if we don't address it via the free agent period.

misturanderson
02-09-2010, 07:26 PM
We might have bigger needs at DE (3-4), LG, and C but those are not common picks at the 11th spot in the first round and odds are I don't see us using the 11th pick on either of those three positions. The DE/DT would have the highest chance out of all those three positions to be addressed in the first round and that is if we don't address it via the free agent period.

I'm not opposed to picking up Bradford or Clausen if they are available at #10/11, they wouldn't be playing next year if Orton stays healthy, but they are possibly better long term answers. I would rather we pick up Dan Williams if he's still there or trade down a tad and get Odrick or Price, then take Pike in the 3rd/4th after addressing LG/C in the 2nd.

I am firmly against trading a high pick for an old, extremely injury prone QB that has never played in this sytem. I don't think it would help us enough in the short or long term to make that trade worth it. If we trade a 2nd (I'd still be hesitant to trade a 1st) for Kolb, I could be convinced to see that as a worthwhile trade.

DBroncos4life
02-09-2010, 07:33 PM
I'm not opposed to picking up Bradford or Clausen if they are available at #10/11, they wouldn't be playing next year if Orton stays healthy, but they are possibly better long term answers. I would rather we pick up Dan Williams if he's still there or trade down a tad and get Odrick or Price, then take Pike in the 3rd/4th after addressing LG/C in the 2nd.

I am firmly against trading a high pick for an old, extremely injury prone QB that has never played in this sytem. I don't think it would help us enough in the short or long term to make that trade worth it. If we trade a 2nd (I'd still be hesitant to trade a 1st) for Kolb, I could be convinced to see that as a worthwhile trade.

No one even knows what the asking price for McNabb is though. I doubt we are offering a first rounder for him. As for drafting Pike I would rather send a 2nd and a 3rd/4th to Philly for McNabb or Kolb then drafting him.

misturanderson
02-09-2010, 07:41 PM
No one even knows what the asking price for McNabb is though. I doubt we are offering a first rounder for him. As for drafting Pike I would rather send a 2nd and a 3rd/4th to Philly for McNabb or Kolb then drafting him.

You're entitled to your opinion, I disagree with what kind of impact you think McNabb could have on our team, mainly because I don't think that he could make it through the year without going on IR with our OL. I could potentially get on board with trading for Kolb, but I would still rather see us shore up the lines first and then worry about a QB for the future.

I personally think that upgrading our lines will have the greatest impact on the team's future success. The offense and defense were pretty awful at the end of this year almost exclusively due to poor play from the OL and DL.

oubronco
02-09-2010, 08:14 PM
Yeah, and I said he MAY not take us to the Superbowl. It is also possible that he could win a Superbowl like big Ben did in 2005, completely on the backs of his defense and running game, or he could pull a Brees or Warner and get good all of a sudden and carry us to the Superbowl on his back.

No matter how you want to play it we aren't going to have a significantly better QB next year (and if we do get one he will almost certainly not be around much past next year) without throwing away draft picks that we need to fix the various other parts of this team that are broken and need to be fixed before this TEAM is ready to compete for a Superbowl.

Sorry but Rosenbanger is head and shoulders above Orton

tsiguy96
02-09-2010, 08:18 PM
Sorry but Rosenbanger is head and shoulders above Orton

you are clearly missing the point. possibly the worst performance ever by a winning superbowl QB was that year, but who cares right?

misturanderson
02-09-2010, 08:21 PM
Sorry but Rosenbanger is head and shoulders above Orton

He played worse in 2005 (on a much better team than the 2009 Broncos) than Orton is capable of playing.

I didn't claim that Orton is as good as he is, or that our defense could play as well as the 2005 steelers, or that we could get the refs to give the game to us. I was just pointing out that saying that there is no way we could win a Superbowl with Orton at QB isn't true.

DBroncos4life
02-09-2010, 08:35 PM
you are clearly missing the point. possibly the worst performance ever by a winning superbowl QB was that year, but who cares right?

How many NFL games did Ben have under his belt?

TonyR
02-09-2010, 08:35 PM
No one even knows what the asking price for McNabb is though.

No, but with the possibility of both Minnesota and Arizona needed QB's, along with the teams rumored to be interested including Cleveland and Buffalo, you can bet the price will go up and not down. The Eagles have no reason to give him away even assuming they will consider trading him in the first place.

But back to Minnesota and Arizona, both are contenders, the Vikings are coached by his former offensive coordinator, and Arizona is where his offseason home is. So both of those teams would appear to have a large lead for his services over Denver. The chances of McNabb ending up in Denver are really, really remote.

Hamrob
02-09-2010, 09:14 PM
So Orton wasn't one of the top 5 QBs to play in the league for the last 20 years? Who would've thunk it?

QBs like Brees and Manning are not something your team is guaranteed to obtain if they try hard enough, you have to get ridiculously lucky as well and have a system that fits them perfectly.

And as for the YAC argument, look it up, we had the 13th most YAC and the 13th ranked passing offense. That argument is bull**** at best.

Orton may not take us to the superbowl, but get used to him because he did well enough to get another shot and there really aren't many, if any, better options out there for next year. We may be able to get McNabb, but the only people that think that it is an obvious upgrade (for the additional compensation that he will require) are the same people that refuse to admit that Orton did better than average this last year considering his poor OL play and injuries.

Oddly enough, you seem to be one of those people.Look Orton's o.k. He can run this offense, but he's limited in terms of his atheletic ability which seems to relate to his ability to make big plays. Again, he's going to be better than a rookie. Big deal. He's stop-gap.

Elway's last year was 1998...we're moving into the 2010 season. We've had Brister, Griese, Plummer, Cutler & Orton calling signals. I think it's been plenty long enough.

Trade for DNAB, draft a rookie QB next year when there's better stock available. Keep Orton as your backup.

DBroncos4life
02-09-2010, 09:16 PM
No, but with the possibility of both Minnesota and Arizona needed QB's, along with the teams rumored to be interested including Cleveland and Buffalo, you can bet the price will go up and not down. The Eagles have no reason to give him away even assuming they will consider trading him in the first place.

But back to Minnesota and Arizona, both are contenders, the Vikings are coached by his former offensive coordinator, and Arizona is where his offseason home is. So both of those teams would appear to have a large lead for his services over Denver. The chances of McNabb ending up in Denver are really, really remote.

I guess that settles it Arizona or the Vikings will give a first round pick for McNabb. I guess we are out of the running.

I don't know why you think the bold part would be true. Where he lives or his former OC have nothing to do with what teams will give Philly in return for McNabb. It might make those teams a more logical choice or a better place for him to be but it has nothing to do with his value. Do you really think that Philly would turn down 9th over all pick in the NFL draft from the Bills because he has no ties to them?

TheDave
02-09-2010, 09:20 PM
Yeah dangle a QB that threw 26 INT's...or draft one that threw 20. Sheer genius!


We were already "dangling" him, might as well have tried to squeeze someone other than Chicago... if it's true were already trying to dump Orton.

and Sanchez is a rookie you halfwit, remember Peyton threw 28 hs rookie year and he turned out alright.

I have no idea in the world why I bother talking to you...

strafen
02-09-2010, 09:27 PM
Kyle Orton threw for over 3800 yards, 21 TD's and only 12 INT's....his completion pct was over 60%...and he's the problem?

I think we need to look at a defense that while it did improve from the previous year, gave up tons of points down the stretch, and against the better teams...and even surrendered 20 points to an inept Raider's that only hit that many in 3 games all season. Not to mention they gave up over 500 yards and 30 points to the freaking Chiefs.Haven't you seen Orton play enough to see he just doesn't have it?
Forget about his stats. What you need to look is at his intangibles. The guy is an absolute statue. He's a freakin' sloth.
You need a QB that is excited to play the game. Someone who shows some fire and plays inspired football.
You don't want somebody like Orton on the field to represent a QB, to do things right so the team won't lose the game. When the game is on the line, he's NOT the guy you want in there, period...

DBroncos4life
02-09-2010, 11:06 PM
TonyR I also don't think the Eagles are going to be in any hurry to help solve either of the Vikings or the Cards QB problems. Even if either of those two teams wanted to give the Eagles a first round pick I would believe they would take a 2nd and a 4th rounder from either the Bills or the Broncos before they would risk having to deal with McNabb in the playoffs.

jhns
02-10-2010, 07:08 AM
Kyle Orton threw for over 3800 yards, 21 TD's and only 12 INT's....his completion pct was over 60%...and he's the problem?


The owner that said we need to draft a QB thinks so. The coach/GM that is calling around for veteran QBs sure thinks so.

I agree with our owner and coach/GM.

TonyR
02-10-2010, 07:22 AM
TonyR I also don't think the Eagles are going to be in any hurry to help solve either of the Vikings or the Cards QB problems. Even if either of those two teams wanted to give the Eagles a first round pick I would believe they would take a 2nd and a 4th rounder from either the Bills or the Broncos before they would risk having to deal with McNabb in the playoffs.

I think you make a good point there, Eagles would much prefer moving him out of the conference. But McNabb will have some control in this situation much as Cutler did in his. He can state that he won't sign a contact extension with a particular team meaning they'd be giving up a lot to have him for one year which would kill the deal. McNabb will want to go to a team ready to compete, he's not going to immerse himself in a rebuild.

TonyR
02-10-2010, 07:26 AM
... if it's true were already trying to dump Orton.
...

I don't know that that's an accurate description of the situation. There is a high probability Orton will be the starter next year. But if you can upgrade the position of course you look into it. Why wouldn't you?

Beantown Bronco
02-10-2010, 08:03 AM
he isn't going to magically get a more accurate throw,

Over 60% completion percentage and call me crazy, but I think losing the busted finger and glove will only help there.

Look at the QB teams. Brees throwing with players hanging off of him. Under pressure. Manning doing the same. Brees at a critical time, completing 10 consecutive passes to lead his team back. I don't see Orton ever doing this against a premier team. Which is the point. If he can do this against crappy teams, great. If he can't do it against premier teams, we never get to let alone win, the SB.

1. Let's please not compare him to the two best in the game right now. Every QB in the league looks worse than them by a significant margin right now.

2. Lead his team back against a premier team? Looks like someone missed the Cowboys, Pats, and Philly games. Sure, we didn't win the last one, but he was instrumental in bringing us back from a big deficit when, in the recent past, we would've simply turtled.

Haven't you seen Orton play enough to see he just doesn't have it?
Forget about his stats. What you need to look is at his intangibles. The guy is an absolute statue. He's a freakin' sloth.


Looks like someone missed this little pearl yesterday:

This is seriously a myth as far as I'm concerned. Everyone seems to focus on the times he was sacked and not the times he escaped and ran. Look, QB's are not often expected to run. Here's a list of QB's that had fewer rushing yards than Orton last season:
Warner
Schaub
P.Manning
Favre
Brady
Brees
Ryan
Flacco
Delhomme
Henne
E.Manning
Rivers
Smith

This tells me that either Orton ran the ball more than these guys or was more effective when doing it. That is a hell of a list of QB's. How many MVPs, Championships, and probowls are on this list? The best offenses do not ask their QB's to run.

Pocket awareness is another story, and while I don't think Kyle's is as bad as other people here, I do think it is something he can improve on as he gets familiar with his offensive line.

Honestly, the lack of mobility complaint sounds like an excuse to dislike Orton, and is extremely exaggerated. Much like the arm strength thing. It's like the only QB Bronco fans can compare guys to is Elway.

You need a QB that is excited to play the game. Someone who shows some fire and plays inspired football.
You don't want somebody like Orton on the field to represent a QB, to do things right so the team won't lose the game. When the game is on the line, he's NOT the guy you want in there, period...

Weird, cause I saw him win several games in which we were losing in the 4th quarter this year and saw him cost us literally zero games that we were winning, tied, or within one score in the 4th quarter this year.

Rabb
02-10-2010, 08:17 AM
I think you make a good point there, Eagles would much prefer moving him out of the conference. But McNabb will have some control in this situation much as Cutler did in his. He can state that he won't sign a contact extension with a particular team meaning they'd be giving up a lot to have him for one year which would kill the deal. McNabb will want to go to a team ready to compete, he's not going to immerse himself in a rebuild.

I cannot help but think that Dawk and Buck are in his ear a little

TheDave
02-10-2010, 08:56 AM
I don't know that that's an accurate description of the situation. There is a high probability Orton will be the starter next year. But if you can upgrade the position of course you look into it. Why wouldn't you?

Are we really going to have a symantics argument?

Replacing the current guy with someone better is in essence "Dumping the current guy"... call it what ever you want, but the fact remains if McNabb is brought in Orton is at most a back up, and more likely would be on the streets.

That's getting dumped.

As for the "upgrade" question... I'm not sure McNabb would be an upgrade in his 1st year. He has played under Andy Reid in a WCO offense his entire career. This would be a completely new offense to him. I'm not convinced he would be any better this year than Orton was last year.

IMO Orton gets another year with Brandstater as the backup. If we want to upgrade the position then we need to do it in the draft.

Popcorn Sutton
02-10-2010, 08:58 AM
Are we really going to have a symantics argument?

Replacing the current guy with someone better is in essence "Dumping the current guy"... call it what ever you want but the fact remains if McNabb is brought in Orton is at most a back up and more likely would be on the streets.

That's getting dumped.

As for the "upgrade" question... I'm not sure McNabb would be an upgrade in his 1st year. He has played under Andy Reid in a WCO offense his entire career. This would be a completely new offense to him. I'm not convinced he would be any better this year than Orton was last year.

IMO Orton gets another year with Brandstater as the backup.

Well how about that... I think I agree with you. ;D

elsid13
02-10-2010, 08:58 AM
Are we really going to have a symantics argument?

Replacing the current guy with someone better is in essence "Dumping the current guy"... call it what ever you want but the fact remains if McNabb is brought in Orton is at most a back up and more likely would be on the streets.

That's getting dumped.

As for the "upgrade" question... I'm not sure McNabb would be an upgrade in his 1st year. He has played under Andy Reid in a WCO offense his entire career. This would be a completely new offense to him. I'm not convinced he would be any better this year than Orton was last year.

IMO Orton gets another year with Brandstater as the backup.

Stop lying theDave, we all know this rumor was started by you to ensure that McDaniels fails and Simms gets the starting job, after Orton breaks down in tears and goes on 4 month bender. ;D

TheDave
02-10-2010, 09:00 AM
Stop lying theDave, we all know this rumor was started by you to ensure that McDaniels fails and Simms gets the starting job, after Orton breaks down in tears and goes on 4 month bender. ;D

Good gawd man, I thought we were going to keep that between us... WTF? ;D

elsid13
02-10-2010, 09:03 AM
Good gawd man, I thought we were going to keep that between us... WTF? ;D

Wheels within Wheels my friend. If we put it out in the open, no one would believe we are actually doing it. They will never see the 5 way trade for Tom Brady until it to late.

broncswin
02-10-2010, 09:11 AM
The owner that said we need to draft a QB thinks so. The coach/GM that is calling around for veteran QBs sure thinks so.

I agree with our owner and coach/GM.

oh my god...I just agreed with you...theres a first time for everythingHilarious!

broncswin
02-10-2010, 09:14 AM
I don't know that that's an accurate description of the situation. There is a high probability Orton will be the starter next year. But if you can upgrade the position of course you look into it. Why wouldn't you?

I don't know why people say we are dumping him, or giving up on him...if there is better talent out there, you test the waters...Orton will probably be our QB next year...I don't think he will feel he was being given up on...he will work harder to keep his job.

0SE7EN
02-11-2010, 11:07 AM
Orton wasn't horrible last year, but he wasn't great either. McNabb isn't the best QB, but he's hands down a major upgrade over Orton. He can still scramble (3rd and 25...remember???). He has the ability to stretch the field and get use out of speedy guys like Royal, which we sorely lacked with Orton last year.

Who cares if McNabb has played in the WCO for his whole career. He's not stupid. Did anyone have these concerns when Shanahan was hired and changed the offense to WCO, something that Elway never played in before? It is just a matter of learning a new playbook. That's why they practice and have preseason. There's plenty of time to adjust. McNabb is a pro, I don't think changing offensive styles is going to be an issue for the guy. Orton came to a new team and learned McD's offense pretty well. Not the best at executing since he has limitations with his arm strength and deep ball accuracy, but mentally you could tell that the guy knew the plays and studied the playbooks. McNabb is fully capable of the same thing.

He'll get good protection from the O-line and he has a much better ability to buy time and stretch the play than Orton. To me it is a no brainer, getting McNabb if we can get him. The question is whether Denver wants to pay up that big salary and potential bonuses that he's due, in addition to giving up any talent + picks that Philly may be demanding. These rumors are fun for fans like us to speculate and discuss...I just hope this one is true.

Gotta love Dove Valley denying the reports.

TonyR
02-11-2010, 05:58 PM
What's next for McNabb in Philly?

PHILADELPHIA -- Will the Eagles trade Donovan McNabb? With apologies to the Brett Favre retirement watch, this is the most compelling story of the 2010 NFL offseason.

Eagles coach Andy Reid has said all the right things -- almost. So has McNabb. And that's the problem. This time of year, it's not what they say that counts but what's going on behind the scenes and how you read between the lines.

Philadelphia is the only team in the NFL with all three quarterbacks on its roster going into the final year of their contracts. Teams are calling, wondering who's available, who's not and what the Eagles would want in any potential trade.

Read the rest here: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=paolantonio_sal&id=4904977

misturanderson
02-11-2010, 06:13 PM
What's next for McNabb in Philly?

PHILADELPHIA -- Will the Eagles trade Donovan McNabb? With apologies to the Brett Favre retirement watch, this is the most compelling story of the 2010 NFL offseason.

Eagles coach Andy Reid has said all the right things -- almost. So has McNabb. And that's the problem. This time of year, it's not what they say that counts but what's going on behind the scenes and how you read between the lines.

Philadelphia is the only team in the NFL with all three quarterbacks on its roster going into the final year of their contracts. Teams are calling, wondering who's available, who's not and what the Eagles would want in any potential trade.

Read the rest here: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=paolantonio_sal&id=4904977
There is no way in hell that they are getting a 1st rounder for McNabb at this point. If that's their starting position, he's not going anywhere.

TonyR
02-11-2010, 06:19 PM
There is no way in hell that they are getting a 1st rounder for McNabb at this point.

They shouldn't, but it wouldn't shock me. Lots of teams need QB's, including possible Super Bowl contenders Minnesota and Arizona assuming Favre and Warner don't come back.

Dagmar
02-11-2010, 06:26 PM
There is no way in hell that they are getting a 1st rounder for McNabb at this point. If that's their starting position, he's not going anywhere.

Every time I see this posted about a player I am reminded of Roy WIlliams to Dalolas.

DBroncos4life
02-11-2010, 06:27 PM
I wonder what the Panthers would want for Matt Moore? Our OC (yeah right) was the former QB coach for them so he would have good insight on him.

misturanderson
02-11-2010, 06:56 PM
Every time I see this posted about a player I am reminded of Roy WIlliams to Dalolas.

The main difference is that Jerry Jones is an idiot and for some reason thought that they were a receiver away from the superbowl.

Bronco Rob
02-12-2010, 04:21 AM
Broncos say they don’t want Donovan McNabb


Two Broncos sources emphatically said there is “no truth” to reports describing Denver as a possible landing spot for Donovan McNabb. Unless the Broncos, Eagles coach Andy Reid and McNabb are fibbing, McNabb figures to be in Philadelphia one more season. Reid already has said McNabb is his starting quarterback for 2010 and McNabb said last week in Miami he would be with the Eagles in the 2010 season. McNabb has a year left on his contract, which was re-negotiated in June 2009, with a salary cap figure of $5 million for 2010, according to NFL salary documents. It includes some additional bonus money as well. — Denver Post



http://benmaller.com/nfl/#1

colonelbeef
02-12-2010, 07:07 AM
We need to remember to decouple Cutler and Orton. Cutler was not traded for Orton. Orton was acquired to fill the void at the QB position probably with full knowledge that he wasn't likely the long term answer.

Correct, although it's impossible to extricate either QB when they were the only names included in the trade....

HEAV
02-12-2010, 10:20 AM
According to ESPN's Sal Paolantonio, the Eagles have "so far" told teams that both Donovan McNabb and Kevin Kolb are unavailable for trade.


Ok so a few days ago Sal was saying Denver and Philly had multiple discussions on McNabb, but now he's saying the Eagles are telling teams he's not available...

So which one is it Sal? If Denver called asking and Philly said he's not available, why then would the teams have multiple talks?

Sal just trying to keep up with Schefter in my opinion. Never trust a word Sal says.

Beantown Bronco
02-12-2010, 10:32 AM
Ok so a few days ago Sal was saying Denver and Philly had multiple discussions on McNabb, but now he's saying the Eagles are telling teams he's not available...

So which one is it Sal? If Denver called asking and Philly said he's not available, why then would the teams have multiple talks?

The talks were about Vick, not McNabb or Kolb. :stirstir:

errand
02-13-2010, 06:30 AM
We were already "dangling" him, might as well have tried to squeeze someone other than Chicago... if it's true were already trying to dump Orton.

and Sanchez is a rookie you halfwit, remember Peyton threw 28 hs rookie year and he turned out alright.

I have no idea in the world why I bother talking to you...

...so now Sanchez is the next Manning? The point being a rookie QB wouldn't have had success in this offense.