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View Full Version : Legwold's efforts to get Little in.


DomCasual
02-08-2010, 09:10 AM
This was mentioned in the Floyd Little thread, but I think it's cool enough that it deserves its own. For all those years, Woody made the pitches to get Broncos in. I'm sure he got up and used flowery metaphors, and poetic prose. And it took one of the greatest quarterbacks in history to get us a Hall of Famer.

Nice job, Jeff, for taking your job seriously.

From Peter King's MMQB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/02/08/mmqb.superbowl/1.html): "On Little's election: I did not support the Denver running back because I felt his numbers and impact were shy (3.9 yards per carry, one 1,000-yard rushing season, 54 rush yards per game), but as I've said on many occasions, I'm one voter, with an equal vote to the other 43 voters, and the will of the voters spoke loudly. Senior Committee nominees need 80 percent of the vote to be inducted, and both Little and LeBeau got at least the requisite 36 votes to get in.

There's no doubt in my mind that the exhaustive work of Denver Post writer Jeff Legwold either got Little in or was a major factor in his election. The way the system works is that each candidate has his case for election presented by a member of the media from where he played. Then there's free-flowing debate about the candidate. Little's speaker was Legwold. Our bylaws prevent me from discussing freely what Legwold said in the meeting, but with permission of Hall of Fame VP Joe Horrigan, I can say that one factor in Legwold's argument was that Legwold personally viewed about 1,200 of 1,641 carries in Little's nine NFL seasons.

Though I can't tell you what Legwold said in his presentation, I can tell you I discussed this with him after the presentation and Legwold said he kept records of each carry and where Little was first contacted by a defender behind a subpar Denver offensive line. Legwold said about 30 percent of the time Little was first hit behind the line. That's an amazing number. "I saw a runner who had to struggle to get to the line of scrimmage often,'' Legwold said afterward. "He had no time to be a patient runner, because he was in a bad offense with no other options.''

I called Little Saturday night, and he was unaware of the lengths to which Legwold had gone. "Wow,'' Little said. "If he swayed more than one person, I am so deeply indebted.'' Legwold's legwork will be the kind that, to me, future presenters will strive to match."

bronco militia
02-08-2010, 09:13 AM
yeah whatever, attention whore

;D

DomCasual
02-08-2010, 09:15 AM
yeah whatever, attention whore

;D

I can't help it if you don't have a flare for the dramatic, your crazy Asian!

bronco militia
02-08-2010, 09:17 AM
I can't help it if you don't have a flare for the dramatic, your crazy Asian!

bwhahaha! Hilarious!

dbfan21
02-08-2010, 09:26 AM
I am so happy for Floyd Little. He is very deserving and waited such a long time to experience his day. I know there will be a ton of Cowboy and 9er fans in canton this summer, but I hope Little gets a respectable showing from Broncos Country. Wish I could be there myself.

gyldenlove
02-08-2010, 09:41 AM
Little is very deserving, he is one of the first dominant runningbacks one of the greatest Broncos ever, for a team with such an illustrious history that should count for something. While the Broncos may have been a bad team in Little's day, his play elevated the team.

bronco_diesel
02-08-2010, 09:43 AM
This was mentioned in the Floyd Little thread, but I think it's cool enough that it deserves its own. For all those years, Woody made the pitches to get Broncos in. I'm sure he got up and used flowery metaphors, and poetic prose. And it took one of the greatest quarterbacks in history to get us a Hall of Famer.



I am not entirely familiar with how the process works, or who has been representing Denver players. Has Woody taken the lions share of this? If so, could this be a reason that Denver is so often bypassed in the Hall of Fame?

DomCasual
02-08-2010, 09:57 AM
I am not entirely familiar with how the process works, or who has been representing Denver players. Has Woody taken the lions share of this? If so, could this be a reason that Denver is so often bypassed in the Hall of Fame?

The way it works is that when the voters get together, a media representative (usually a beat writer) from the nominated player's city gets in front of the voters and makes a pitch for his player. I'm not even sure why that was Legwold - as far as I know, it's been Woody for years and years. He used to write an annual column, bemoaning the lack of Broncos in the Hall.

Now, I don't know the history of Little getting down to where Woody would even have a chance to make an argument. Maybe he didn't even get to that point, until he was in his last possible year of consideration by the senior committee. What I do believe is that Woody isn't the type to have put in the kind of "Leg Work" Legwold apparently did for Floyd Little. What I could see is Woody getting up, using a lot of alliteration, really impressing himself with his prose, and basically boring everyone in the room.

Popps
02-08-2010, 10:42 AM
Lewgold is simply the best Broncos writer out there.

bowtown
02-08-2010, 10:56 AM
Lewgold is simply the best Broncos writer out there.

But he comes in a distant second when it comes to Tweeting with his mouth full.

broncosteven
02-08-2010, 11:42 AM
Great find!

bombay
02-08-2010, 12:23 PM
We're lucky to have Legwold. He's among the best in his business. Taking the time to do what he did to advance Little's candidacy is most admirable.

Master___Pain
02-08-2010, 12:35 PM
I'm so happy for Floyd.

and finding a #44 jersey shouldn't be as tough to find now.

DenverBrit
02-08-2010, 01:17 PM
Well done Leggy!! :thumbsup:

no-pseudo-fan
02-08-2010, 01:41 PM
But he could not get Shannon Sharpe in?

DomCasual
02-08-2010, 01:54 PM
But he could not get Shannon Sharpe in?

To be honest, I kind of wonder if that's why Legwold gave the presentation. I bet Woody gave Sharpe's presentation, and I would think it would be pretty tough doing two.

If that's the case, then I hope Woody gets some sort of weird stomach flu next year.

broncosteven
02-08-2010, 01:57 PM
I'm so happy for Floyd.

and finding a #44 jersey shouldn't be as tough to find now.

http://store.profootballhof.com/Floyd-Little-Class-of-2010-Shirt.aspx?DepartmentId=1309

Not quite a jersey but this wasn't on the PF HOF site yesterday so I am guessing items will be added over the coming days/weeks.

Beantown Bronco
02-08-2010, 02:13 PM
Legwold said he kept records of each carry and where Little was first contacted by a defender behind a subpar Denver offensive line. Legwold said about 30 percent of the time Little was first hit behind the line. That's an amazing number. "I saw a runner who had to struggle to get to the line of scrimmage often,'' Legwold said afterward. "He had no time to be a patient runner, because he was in a bad offense with no other options.''[/B]"

sounds familiar

Old Dude
02-08-2010, 03:12 PM
Kudos to Legwold, but it's not like this stat was a stunning discovery. Anyone who watched any of the games back then could have told you the same thing. Several of us old timers have mentioned it multiple times on this board.

And it wasn't just Little's offensive line that was subpar. In the first 5 years of his career, the QBs were Tensi, Briscoe, Liske and Ramsey. Tensi was a shell-shocked wreck (passer ratings of 54.8 and 68.1). Briscoe was basically a slash-type player (62.9). Liske was a refugee from the Canadien Football League (55.3). Ramsey had a vey high IQ, but not a lot of physical talent (ranging between 46.6 in his first year as a Bronco and 64.9 at his peak).

It was pretty much all up to Floyd and the defense and everyone knew it.



It wasn't until the last couple years of his career that Little was teamed with a good QB who could actually manage a passing attack.

no-pseudo-fan
02-08-2010, 04:17 PM
To be honest, I kind of wonder if that's why Legwold gave the presentation. I bet Woody gave Sharpe's presentation, and I would think it would be pretty tough doing two.

If that's the case, then I hope Woody gets some sort of weird stomach flu next year.

How hard of a sell is it to get a 3 time Super Bowl winner to get into the HOF?

He retire the # 1 TE in NFL history.

Shannon Sharpe

Games 204 Games Started 169 Receptions 815 Yards 10060 Avg per catch 12.3 TD's 62


Michael Irvin

Games 159 Games Started 147 Receptions 750 Yards 11904 Ave Per Catch 15.9 TD's 65

How is Michael Irvin voted in year two, and Shannon still waiting? They both have 3 rings. Shannon is a better person too, not like that is saying much compared with Irvin.

Just doesn't seem like a hard sell to me.

Cito Pelon
02-08-2010, 05:26 PM
The way it works is that when the voters get together, a media representative (usually a beat writer) from the nominated player's city gets in front of the voters and makes a pitch for his player. I'm not even sure why that was Legwold - as far as I know, it's been Woody for years and years. He used to write an annual column, bemoaning the lack of Broncos in the Hall.

Now, I don't know the history of Little getting down to where Woody would even have a chance to make an argument. Maybe he didn't even get to that point, until he was in his last possible year of consideration by the senior committee. What I do believe is that Woody isn't the type to have put in the kind of "Leg Work" Legwold apparently did for Floyd Little. What I could see is Woody getting up, using a lot of alliteration, really impressing himself with his prose, and basically boring everyone in the room.

This is probably true.

King still doesn't get the picture, he stopped at "YPC", never mind this:

Rushing Yds/Game
1968 AFL 53.1 (7)
1969 AFL 81.0 (1)
1970 NFL 64.4 (4)
1971 NFL 80.9 (1)

Rushing Att
1967 AFL 130 (7)
1968 AFL 158 (9)
1970 NFL 209 (5)
1971 NFL 284 (1)
1972 NFL 216 (10)
1973 NFL 256 (7)

Pro Bowls (when only coaches and players voted)
1968
1969
1970
1971
1973

Rushing TD
1969 AFL 6 (3)
1972 NFL 9 (4)
1973 NFL 12 (1)

All-Purpose Yds
1967 AFL 1604 (1)
1968 AFL 1825 (1)
1969 AFL 1098 (9)
1970 NFL 1375 (6)
1971 NFL 1587 (4)
1973 NFL 1409 (7)
Career 12157 (69)

Touches
1967 AFL 188 (7)
1968 AFL 227 (4)
1970 NFL 254 (5)
1971 NFL 317 (1)
1972 NFL 255 (8)
1973 NFL 298 (6)
Career 2041 (47)

And look at Little's punt and kick return stats.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LittFl00.htm

Peter King, pffffft.

Schmuck says 54 YPG rushing is nothing, yet that's still 95th best in the NFL to date. And according to Peter King, 95th best in the NFL isn't good enough for the HOF, and King doesn't figure in all of Little's other accomplishments. Peter King, pfffffft.

Cito Pelon
02-08-2010, 05:43 PM
Little is very deserving, he is one of the first dominant runningbacks one of the greatest Broncos ever, for a team with such an illustrious history that should count for something. While the Broncos may have been a bad team in Little's day, his play elevated the team.

Dude was a great contributor to AFL/NFL history, and kudos to Legwold for pressing the point to completion.

broncogary
02-08-2010, 06:03 PM
Kudos to Legwold, but it's not like this stat was a stunning discovery. Anyone who watched any of the games back then could have told you the same thing. Several of us old timers have mentioned it multiple times on this board.

And it wasn't just Little's offensive line that was subpar. In the first 5 years of his career, the QBs were Tensi, Briscoe, Liske and Ramsey. Tensi was a shell-shocked wreck (passer ratings of 54.8 and 68.1). Briscoe was basically a slash-type player (62.9). Liske was a refugee from the Canadien Football League (55.3). Ramsey had a vey high IQ, but not a lot of physical talent (ranging between 46.6 in his first year as a Bronco and 64.9 at his peak).

It was pretty much all up to Floyd and the defense and everyone knew it.



It wasn't until the last couple years of his career that Little was teamed with a good QB who could actually manage a passing attack.

I agree it was more the QB than the OL. I remember when the Broncos beat Cleveland 27-0 in 1971, and one of the Bronco's coaches said that the OL was one of the strengths of the team. They opened the game with a 12 minute drive for a TD.

The Moops
02-09-2010, 02:32 AM
I agree that Jeff Legwold did an outstanding job. But that WAS his job to be outstanding. Floyd had waited 30 years to get into that room to hear his story told to the voters 1 time. Do or die. I would have been hugely disappointed if Legwold DID NOT put forth an outstanding effort. He not only owed that to Floyd but to the legions of Broncos fans who have seen there stars pass over too many times.

King makes it sound that Floyd would never have gotten in without that flawless presentation. And Floyd's career itself was not worthy. Bull crap. The 3 things he kept complaining about: 54 yards per game, one 1,000-yard season, 3.9 are ludicrous. Floyd averaged 54 yards. Leroy Kelly and John Henry Johnson, from his era, averaged 53 and 47 yards respectively. HOFers Paul Hornung not only never gained 1,000 yards. He never even gained 700. And don't give me, well he kicked field goals too. 3.9 yard average -- you know who is in the HOF with a 3.9 average? John Riggins, who played behind Grimm and the arguably the greatest O-line ever. The HOGs. I think Floyd's yards were tougher to get than Riggos.

Also, from what I've been told by various insiders is that Floyd already had support from 40 of the 44 voters (more than 80%) in the room BEFORE Legwold ever got up to speak.

Thanks Jeff for doing an outstanding job. But Floyd's numbers and career speak for themselves.

tsiguy96
02-09-2010, 02:37 AM
I agree that Jeff Legwold did an outstanding job. But that WAS his job to be outstanding. Floyd had waited 30 years to get into that room to hear his story told to the voters 1 time. Do or die. I would have been hugely disappointed if Legwold DID NOT put forth an outstanding effort. He not only owed that to Floyd but to the legions of Broncos fans who have seen there stars pass over too many times.

King makes it sound that Floyd would never have gotten in without that flawless presentation. And Floyd's career itself was not worthy. Bull crap. The 3 things he kept complaining about: 54 yards per game, one 1,000-yard season, 3.9 are ludicrous. Floyd averaged 54 yards. Leroy Kelly and John Henry Johnson, from his era, averaged 53 and 47 yards respectively. HOFers Paul Hornung not only never gained 1,000 yards. He never even gained 700. And don't give me, well he kicked field goals too. 3.9 yard average -- you know who is in the HOF with a 3.9 average? John Riggins, who played behind Grimm and the arguably the greatest O-line ever. The HOGs. I think Floyd's yards were tougher to get than Riggos.

Also, from what I've been told by various insiders is that Floyd already had support from 40 of the 44 voters (more than 80%) in the room BEFORE Legwold ever got up to speak.

Thanks Jeff for doing an outstanding job. But Floyd's numbers and career speak for themselves.

maybe thats why little commented that if legwold swayed even a single voter, hes deeply indebted (or whatever he said to that same degree)

rastaman
02-10-2010, 12:10 PM
But he could not get Shannon Sharpe in?

Or Randy Gradishar for that matter.

bendog
02-10-2010, 12:18 PM
do you know how the voting process works? guess not.

DomCasual
02-10-2010, 02:23 PM
do you know how the voting process works? guess not.

Are you talking to me, you crazy old bastard? Because I know how it works.