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View Full Version : Think Coyer STILL doesn't make 2nd half adjustments?


DarkHorse30
02-07-2010, 07:39 PM
I do. The best thing about Nolan, was that he coached his team in the locker room; Larry never did. That 2nd half 1st drive was textbook Offense against the coach who can't adjust.

Taco John
02-07-2010, 07:43 PM
Peyton Manning threw the interception that cost the Colts the game, not Larry Coyer.

SoCalBronco
02-07-2010, 07:43 PM
Coyer gave up only 24 points to the No. 1 offense in the league. I'd say his side of the ball did its job.

Kaylore
02-07-2010, 07:44 PM
What was he supposed to adjust? Everything was working. Then the Saints just started dumping off to backs because the Colts linebackers couldn't keep up. They really held the Saints in check all game and ironically the Colts offense and special teams did them in. It's not like that pick six Manning threw had anything to do with Larry Coyer or his defense.

Just own up and admit that firing Larry Coyer was the stupidest move Shanahan ever made and is likely what lost him his job.

Taco John
02-07-2010, 07:45 PM
I do. The best thing about Nolan, was that he coached his team in the locker room; Larry never did. That 2nd half 1st drive was textbook Offense against the coach who can't adjust.



Just for a laugh, what adjustment do you think needed to be made?

2KBack
02-07-2010, 07:47 PM
you guys do realize that the saints only punted twice the whole game, the first two posessiona of the game.

bronco militia
02-07-2010, 07:51 PM
.

Just own up and admit that firing Larry Coyer was the stupidest move Shanahan ever made and is likely what lost him his job.

I won't agree with that.....

DarkHorse30
02-07-2010, 07:53 PM
Just for a laugh, what adjustment do you think needed to be made?

did you happen to notice how many times WRs were WIDE OPEN in the second half? Laugh all you want, I just remember how terrible Coyer's defenses for Denver stumbled in the second half. OTOH, remember when Nolan came on and was holding teams scoreless or maybe a figgie in the first half of last season? Those blown coverages on Indy's part in the SB have to be on someone. I choose to blame the DC......because I remember how bad we looked in the last half season in 08, Coyer did not have an answer for the Panthers, Bills and Chargers. They scored at will.....not unlike this SB

TheChamp24
02-07-2010, 07:54 PM
After the 1st quarter, the Saints offense couldn't be stopped. Coyer had a good plan to start out, but the Saints adjusted, then Coyer couldn't adjust to the Saints adjustment.

Popps
02-07-2010, 07:56 PM
Peyton Manning threw the interception that cost the Colts the game, not Larry Coyer.

Plummer.... Manning... it's always someone else's fault.

I will say this, Coyer's squad managed to keep the game close, despite marginal offensive output in the first half. Too bad his D couldn't have done that against Pittsburgh in 05.

The mark of a true championship defense is being able to keep games close when your offense is struggling, not an if/then-scenario that calls for your defense to give up playoff records in first half points and yardage just because your O gets off to a slow start.

Look, props to Coyer. He's clearly a good coach or he wouldn't have taken one D to the SB, and another to the brink. He may have flaws, but I've been saying all season that Indy's D was suspect.

Indy's D was suspect in 06, which is why I think that was one of the worst teams to ever win a SB.

Coyer deserves congrats today, not bashing. But... the whole issue of his leaving Denver and its importance (or lack thereof) has been largely overstated.

Ray Finkle
02-07-2010, 07:59 PM
What was he supposed to adjust? Everything was working. Then the Saints just started dumping off to backs because the Colts linebackers couldn't keep up. They really held the Saints in check all game and ironically the Colts offense and special teams did them in. It's not like that pick six Manning threw had anything to do with Larry Coyer or his defense.

Just own up and admit that firing Larry Coyer was the stupidest move Shanahan ever made and is likely what lost him his job.

1. Paul Tonevossi
2. The Claw in the second round
3. Dale Carter

....it's not the worst but it is right up there.

oubronco
02-07-2010, 08:00 PM
you guys do realize that the saints only punted twice the whole game, the first two posessiona of the game.

Dat dar be a Good point

oubronco
02-07-2010, 08:01 PM
1. Paul Tonevossi
2. The Claw in the second round
3. Dale Carter

....it's not the worst but it is right up there.

Clarett?

Lev Vyvanse
02-07-2010, 08:04 PM
1. Paul Tonevossi
2. The Claw in the second round
3. Dale Carter

....it's not the worst but it is right up there.

Bad second round picks are the worst moves ever?Hilarious!Hilarious!

Taco John
02-07-2010, 08:23 PM
Clarett?



Clarett was selected with a compensatory pick at the end of the third round.

Taco John
02-07-2010, 08:26 PM
Plummer.... Manning... it's always someone else's fault.

Most definitely in those two cases, you're right. It's called controlling the ball. If you don't do this against high powered offenses, you'll end up scored on.

I can't imagine how anyone could look at this game and pin the loss on Coyer. Pretty stupid.

24champ
02-07-2010, 08:29 PM
Plummer.... Manning... it's always someone else's fault.


That's the way it is with these Larry Coyer apologists. It's always the special teams, Quarterback play, somebody else...but never Larry Coyer.

BroncoBuff
02-07-2010, 08:45 PM
That's the way it is with these Larry Coyer apologists. It's always the special teams, Quarterback play, somebody else...but never Larry Coyer.

Yeah ... three years in a row Top 10 defenses. He sucked.

strafen
02-07-2010, 08:51 PM
I do. The best thing about Nolan, was that he coached his team in the locker room; Larry never did. That 2nd half 1st drive was textbook Offense against the coach who can't adjust.The Saints made adjustments on their offense. They came out playing a different game in the second half, so to talk about the Colts defense making adjustments is a moot point.
For starters they opened up the second half woth an on-side kick that the Colts almost recovered...

maher_tyler
02-07-2010, 08:51 PM
Why do people forget Freeney wasn't 100%...more like 75%!!

BroncoBuff
02-07-2010, 08:52 PM
He still had a sack, and some decent pressure. He was a factor, first half anyway.

_Oro_
02-07-2010, 08:54 PM
Seems like Larry Coyer's defense still doesn't wrap up. One of the worst tackling games I've seen all year for both sides.

Taco John
02-07-2010, 08:58 PM
That's the way it is with these Larry Coyer apologists. It's always the special teams, Quarterback play, somebody else...but never Larry Coyer.

I'm sure it wasn't the fault of the guy with 5 interceptions and 3 fumbles in four playoff games.

Taco John
02-07-2010, 08:59 PM
Why do people forget Freeney wasn't 100%...more like 75%!!

I can't believe that Freeny didn't come out taped and ready to play there in the second half. Even at 75%, they needed him on the field.

TheReverend
02-07-2010, 08:59 PM
Considering they shut out the Jets in the 2nd half of the CG after giving up 17 in the first half, and that in this game, they dominated the Saints offense in the first half and had no adjustments to make at the half... I'm gonna say "no" to the OP.

BroncoBuff
02-07-2010, 09:00 PM
Seems like Larry Coyer's defense still doesn't wrap up. One of the worst tackling games I've seen all year for both sides.

Yep, Colts should've stuck with the running game. Saints couldn't stop Addai, bad tackling.

Had the Colts stuck with the run, after they took the lead, they would've eaten up the clock and sucked all the momentum ourtta that stadium. Colts would've won.

Popps
02-07-2010, 09:04 PM
Most definitely in those two cases, you're right. It's called controlling the ball. If you don't do this against high powered offenses, you'll end up scored on.

I can't imagine how anyone could look at this game and pin the loss on Coyer. Pretty stupid.

Bla bla bla....

Point is, Taco... you refuse to recognize that while a team's O can affect their D, they also operate as their own entity. A single mistake or a slow start by an offense doesn't give a defense a free pass to lay down. Conversely, a true championship D will step up its game in those situations.

I don't want to rehash Coyer's work in Denver. He did some good things. But, his defenses had problems in big games... and they did again tonight.

BroncoBuff
02-07-2010, 09:07 PM
Point is, Taco... you refuse to recognize that while a team's O can affect their D, they also operate as their own entity.

Yeah, Taco ... you refuse to realize so damn much.

I can't believe they even let you post here anymore.


LISTEN TO POPPS AND LEARN!

azbroncfan
02-07-2010, 09:24 PM
It has been rehashed over and over and mayber over again but Coyer's failure in Denver was the crap he was given to work with. He isn't the greatest DC since sliced bread but he is far from Slowik. Tonight they just kept giving the Saints the RB flat, checkdown, and WR 10 yard outs and comebacks. I am not sure I ever saw Brees throw a deep pass.

24champ
02-07-2010, 09:27 PM
Yeah ... three years in a row Top 10 defenses. He sucked.

And where did that get us in the big games? When it mattered?


He gets exposed in big games, it's his M.O.

Taco John
02-07-2010, 09:30 PM
Bla bla bla....

Point is, Taco... you refuse to recognize that while a team's O can affect their D, they also operate as their own entity. A single mistake or a slow start by an offense doesn't give a defense a free pass to lay down. Conversely, a true championship D will step up its game in those situations.

I don't want to rehash Coyer's work in Denver. He did some good things. But, his defenses had problems in big games... and they did again tonight.


Sort of like refusing to recognize that committing 8 turnovers in four playoff games isn't "starting slow" but instead "choking fast." Coyer's defense was the best thing we had going for us while he was here, and his success has pretty much invalidated anything you've had to say on him. And don't tell me that the Saints won this game with superior defense. This game wasn't about which defense was the best. This game was about scoring points. The NFL has slanted the rules for years to make it so. Defense isn't what wins championships in the modern age. It's not 1970 anymore.

Taco John
02-07-2010, 09:30 PM
And where did that get us in the big games? When it mattered?



It got us 8 turnovers from a guy who choked when the stakes were high.

24champ
02-07-2010, 09:32 PM
Tonight they just kept giving the Saints the RB flat, checkdown, and WR 10 yard outs and comebacks. I am not sure I ever saw Brees throw a deep pass.

I was having flashbacks to both of the Colts beatdowns, and the Pittsburgh game where we couldn't stop third down conversions....but yeah great regular season DC.

bpc
02-07-2010, 09:36 PM
What was he supposed to adjust? Everything was working. Then the Saints just started dumping off to backs because the Colts linebackers couldn't keep up. They really held the Saints in check all game and ironically the Colts offense and special teams did them in. It's not like that pick six Manning threw had anything to do with Larry Coyer or his defense.

Just own up and admit that firing Larry Coyer was the stupidest move Shanahan ever made and is likely what lost him his job.

You just couldn't wait to throw out that Shanahan jab, could you?

Get over it.

BroncoBuff
02-07-2010, 09:37 PM
And where did that get us in the big games? When it mattered?


He gets exposed in big games, it's his M.O.

Dunno about that, big games? Let's see .... we won the Patriots playoff game, held them to like 10 points, first playoff loss ever for Brady. Steelers game wasn't Coyer's fault. Nick Ferguson two inches too short, Steelers TD, a rare blown coverage by Champ, another Steelers TD, Jake tried too hard with that pick as the first half winded down, another Steelers TD. Second half Jake fumbled, another Steelers TD. As I recall, Steelers scored most of their points there in the 2nd quarter on those mistakes ... they score all their TDs off turnovers.

Besides, the Colts defense was doing pretty well today in the first half, stopped the 4th and goal ... the onsides kick was botched by special teams of course. All that said, what adjustments were required? Why fix something that isn't broke?

The MVPlaya
02-07-2010, 09:39 PM
Colts lost as a team today - I'm not sure how you guys say "Coyer did his job." A bunch of homerism - that's all it is.

Did you see the ball control the Saints had after the first half? Does anyone even remember the Colts getting any big stops other than the goal line stop and the sack? No 3 and outs, nothing to disrupt the Saints offense as the game progressed.

Saints offense was like a train that was empty at the beginning of the game but they kept adding freight to it and Colts D kept getting dominated.

Brees had ALL day in the pocket when no one was open.

Face it - it was the same old bend but don't break defense that was here when we made it to the AFC Championships. Colts offense had 432 yards. Peyton Manning choked it up in the clutch situation but he definitely didn't get helped out by the defense.

And BroncoBuff - the Colts running game was created by their passing game. The times the Colts ran the ball after passing/positive plays was when they were most effective. When they ran the ball on a "rushing down" or when it was "obvious" they weren't exactly dominate. Did you forget the 3 and out they had at the end of half that led to the Saints 3 points? All rushing plays.

Saints were able to adjust and the rushing attack became less effective as they adjusted.

Anyone saying Coyer did his job is most likely a. not watching the game with much intelligence b. homers

Not sure why they didn't try to go back to man after they started off with it so well.

Coyers bend but don't break defense fails again and this time Manning isn't here to save the day.

BroncoBuff
02-07-2010, 09:39 PM
I loved that '05 defense ... Courtney Brown, Trevor Pryce, Gerard Warren ... best D-line here since he Super Bowl years.

Al Wilson, John Lynch, D-Will ... damn good defense.

24champ
02-07-2010, 09:40 PM
It got us 8 turnovers from a guy who choked when the stakes were high.

When the third down conversion rates are above 60 percent on the other team, you're not going to win the game.

bpc
02-07-2010, 09:40 PM
I don't think it was Coyer's fault.

A few things became apparent in this game:

1. Saints were willing to do whatever to win the game... and they did.

2. Any coach could succeed with Manning at the helm. IN the same regard, I think the bloom came off Caldwell's rose because he didn't bring anything to this game. You lose a guy like Dungy who's outspoken in his own way, brings a swagger to the team, and Caldwell looked like a dead-fish most of the season. It didn't look like he showed any emotion, and he definitely didn't bring any intangibles to this team to lift them to a super bowl win.

In any case, congrats to the Saints. They deserved the super bowl because they were the hungriest.

That 2nd half on-side kick was GENIUS.

Taco John
02-07-2010, 09:48 PM
Colts lost as a team today - I'm not sure how you guys say "Coyer did his job." A bunch of homerism - that's all it is.

Did you see the ball control the Saints had after the first half? Does anyone even remember the Colts getting any big stops other than the goal line stop and the sack? No 3 and outs, nothing to disrupt the Saints offense as the game progressed.

Saints offense was like a train that was empty at the beginning of the game but they kept adding freight to it and Colts D kept getting dominated.

Brees had ALL day in the pocket when no one was open.

Face it - it was the same old bend but don't break defense that was here when we made it to the AFC Championships. Colts offense had 432 yards. Peyton Manning choked it up in the clutch situation but he definitely didn't get helped out by the defense.

And BroncoBuff - the Colts running game was created by their passing game. The times the Colts ran the ball after passing/positive plays was when they were most effective. When they ran the ball on a "rushing down" or when it was "obvious" they weren't exactly dominate. Did you forget the 3 and out they had at the end of half that led to the Saints 3 points? All rushing plays.

Saints were able to adjust and the rushing attack became less effective as they adjusted.

Anyone saying Coyer did his job is most likely a. not watching the game with much intelligence b. homers

Not sure why they didn't try to go back to man after they started off with it so well.

Coyers bend but don't break defense fails again and this time Manning isn't here to save the day.





Right. The Colts offense scored 17 points against the highest scoring team in the league, and Peyton Manning threw the game out of reach when he was driving to tie the game, and it's Larry Coyer who was the problem here.

Taco John
02-07-2010, 09:50 PM
When the third down conversion rates are above 60 percent on the other team, you're not going to win the game.


The Saints were 3 for 9 on third downs (33%). The Colts were 6 for 13 (46%).

What are you talking about?

Merlin
02-07-2010, 09:55 PM
You gotta use some serious twisted logic to loud the efforts of a D that only stopped a team 2 times, and that was being killed from the second quarter forward.

BPC, seriously...the deadpan delivery of a Dungy can be differentiated from Caldwell's? I thought people were reaching with Manning (even though I don't think he is the god so many were claiming in this forum for the past week), but to lay this loss on Caldwell's lack of emotion, when Dungy is about as calm as they come...that is a little difficult to argue from any perspective.

24champ
02-07-2010, 10:00 PM
Dunno about that, big games? Let's see .... we won the Patriots playoff game, held them to like 10 points, first playoff loss ever for Brady

The only reason why that happened was because of Champ Bailey making an on the field call and then switched up with Darrent Williams and Brady didn't realize it until it was too late. That play really didn't have much to do with Coyer.



Steelers game wasn't Coyer's fault. Nick Ferguson two inches too short, Steelers TD, a rare blown coverage by Champ, another Steelers TD, Jake tried too hard with that pick as the first half winded down, another Steelers TD. Second half Jake fumbled, another Steelers TD. As I recall, Steelers scored most of their points there in the 2nd quarter on those mistakes ... they score all their TDs off turnovers.


Whenever Ben needed to make a pass, he usually made it. They controlled the clock, see 8 minute drive after our fg. We didn't get any pressure on him that day, and yes Jake was off his game but he wasn't fully responsible for the loss. Steelers came out aggressive, and the Broncos did not.


Besides, the Colts defense was doing pretty well today in the first half, stopped the 4th and goal ... the onsides kick was botched by special teams of course. All that said, what adjustments were required? Why fix something that isn't broke?

Like I said above, the Saints controlled the clock and the game. It was over once the Colts couldn't stop the underneath passes...that sounds familiar. hmm.

24champ
02-07-2010, 10:01 PM
What are you talking about?

Steelers game.

Kaylore
02-07-2010, 10:18 PM
1. Paul Tonevossi
2. The Claw in the second round
3. Dale Carter

....it's not the worst but it is right up there.

But those didn't cost Shanahan his job. Coyer was a desperation move to try and deflect blame. This despite Slowik undermining him from the get-go and Shanahan's refusal to listen to Coyer's pleas for better defensive line talent.

Also I'd like to point out that the Saints didn't start scoring touchdowns until Dwight Freeney left the game at the half after his ankle finally gave out. Sure he came back in but anyone with even the the tinniest bit of football knowledge could tell he wasn't half the player he usually is. Even so, the Colts were a missed field goal and bad Manning pass from potentially winning this thing. The reason the Colts lost the game were not because of Coyer or his defense. Holding the top offense in the league to two three and outs to start the game and then hold them to field goals and one huge goal-line stand doesn't warrant needing to make "half-time adjustments."

Coyer's a great coach. Our defense never ranked better than when he was here and he worked with no-names up front, and as soon as he left it was crap.

listopencil
02-07-2010, 11:13 PM
Right. The Colts offense scored 17 points against the highest scoring team in the league, and Peyton Manning threw the game out of reach when he was driving to tie the game, and it's Larry Coyer who was the problem here.

Heh, exactly. Nolan's job as DC this past season gave me a few flashbacks to the Coyer days. The Offense can't sustain a drive to save its life but blame the D for not killing 100 drives a game. Whatever, O-Maners. Nolan will go on to be appreciated somewhere else just like Coyer has been.

The MVPlaya
02-07-2010, 11:44 PM
Right. The Colts offense scored 17 points against the highest scoring team in the league, and Peyton Manning threw the game out of reach when he was driving to tie the game, and it's Larry Coyer who was the problem here.

You negated my very first line of my post - that's pretty cool. :thumbsup:

They lost as a team - the defense definitely didn't help the offense with those long drives - the offense didn't help the defense at all by not putting up more points.

The defense didn't get any turnovers - either.

Listen to what you said though - Manning threw the game OUT OF REACH (meaning they were already down because the defense couldn't get a stop).

Take your goggles off.

I don't think any 1 player/coach/side on the Colts deserves all the blame. If you will - it should be on Caldwell but he never got credit to begin with so that's why I say no 1 player/coach deserves blame.

bpc
02-07-2010, 11:53 PM
You gotta use some serious twisted logic to loud the efforts of a D that only stopped a team 2 times, and that was being killed from the second quarter forward.

BPC, seriously...the deadpan delivery of a Dungy can be differentiated from Caldwell's? I thought people were reaching with Manning (even though I don't think he is the god so many were claiming in this forum for the past week), but to lay this loss on Caldwell's lack of emotion, when Dungy is about as calm as they come...that is a little difficult to argue from any perspective.

Caldwell doesn't have near the clout Dungy does. I'm sure there are many statements that fall within that sentence as well.

When the Colts NEEDED a gutsy call which would bring them back in front in this game, it fell upon a muted voice. Sean Payton pulled all the punches in this game and it won a super bowl for the Saints. Where were the great calls and leadership from the Colts?

The MVPlaya
02-07-2010, 11:53 PM
I loved that '05 defense ... Courtney Brown, Trevor Pryce, Gerard Warren ... best D-line here since he Super Bowl years.

Al Wilson, John Lynch, D-Will ... damn good defense.

That defense where we were 3rd to last in sacks?

Come on man - that was the weak link to our team. It was a very good run stop defense but we couldn't get pressure for ****... pretty much what happened today with Colts.

That lets you know how bad our dline has been since then... that defense was another bend don't break defense... we stopped teams in the red zone which is why we were able to have success.

Taco John
02-08-2010, 12:04 AM
That was a wiley win for the Saints. They pulled out every gun they had. I wouldn't have been suprised to watch them pull out some BSU garbage out there.

That was a great feel good Superbowl. One of the most enjoyable that I can remember since Elway and Favre faced off. Manning vs. Brees. That was absolutely sweet.

Dedhed
02-08-2010, 05:13 AM
Anyone arguing that getting rid of Coyer was anything but moronic should consider what followed with the defense after he left. If you do that, there really isn't any way to get the egg of Shanahan's face.

HEAV
02-08-2010, 05:42 AM
Drew Brees completed 18 of his last 19 passes, including his last 10 of the game.

_Oro_
02-08-2010, 05:49 AM
But those didn't cost Shanahan his job. Coyer was a desperation move to try and deflect blame. This despite Slowik undermining him from the get-go and Shanahan's refusal to listen to Coyer's pleas for better defensive line talent.

Also I'd like to point out that the Saints didn't start scoring touchdowns until Dwight Freeney left the game at the half after his ankle finally gave out. Sure he came back in but anyone with even the the tinniest bit of football knowledge could tell he wasn't half the player he usually is. Even so, the Colts were a missed field goal and bad Manning pass from potentially winning this thing. The reason the Colts lost the game were not because of Coyer or his defense. Holding the top offense in the league to two three and outs to start the game and then hold them to field goals and one huge goal-line stand doesn't warrant needing to make "half-time adjustments."

Coyer's a great coach. Our defense never ranked better than when he was here and he worked with no-names up front, and as soon as he left it was crap.

A few people have said you don't make half time adjustments if what your doing in the first half works. This isn't necessarily the case. For example, say the only person on your defense generating pass rush, is no longer, because he's injured and getting double teamed, then you need to adjust and find a way to get pressure. Anyway Coyer's defense doesn't suck because of his lack of halftime adjustments. His defense sucks because of horrible tackling and a serious lack of pressure.

Beantown Bronco
02-08-2010, 07:08 AM
I remember how bad we looked in the last half season in 08, Coyer did not have an answer for the Panthers, Bills and Chargers. They scored at will.....not unlike this SB

2008? You're blaming Coyer for a season in which he was not even on our staff? Coyer's last year here was 2006. I realize this is the Mane, but that's one of the biggest reachest I've ever seen here.

WolfpackGuy
02-08-2010, 07:12 AM
The Saints seemed a little nervous early, but they picked it up after their first two possessions.

Actually, their second possession probably would've netted points had Colston not dropped that pass.

They were killing the Colts' third and/or fourth corners over the middle.

Garcia Bronco
02-08-2010, 07:22 AM
Colts gave up 31 points after the first quarter. Their defense got owned.

TonyR
02-08-2010, 07:23 AM
...the Colts running game was created by their passing game. The times the Colts ran the ball after passing/positive plays was when they were most effective.

Exactly. People criticizing Indy for "abandoning the run" clearly didn't understand what was happening in the game. The run was effective primarily because the Saints were expecting, and playing, the pass.

Re the OP, I don't pin this loss on Coyer, and Shanahn shouldn't have fired him, but Gregg Williams > Larry Coyer. The Saints adjusted much better than the Colts did. This cannot be argued.

Ray Finkle
02-08-2010, 07:28 AM
Bad second round picks are the worst moves ever?Hilarious!Hilarious!

When one player was (Tonevossi) was taken off most draft boards and figured to be a late round flyer/FA because of his knee issues and Watts was pegged a mid round pick, yes.

gunns
02-08-2010, 07:30 AM
1. Paul Tonevossi
2. The Claw in the second round
3. Dale Carter

....it's not the worst but it is right up there.

Slowik.

DarkHorse30
02-08-2010, 08:43 AM
2008? You're blaming Coyer for a season in which he was not even on our staff? Coyer's last year here was 2006. I realize this is the Mane, but that's one of the biggest reachest I've ever seen here.

oops, my bad; But I do remember Coyer's inability to adjust at the half, and I saw it yesterday. I'm not saying he isn't a good coach, I just want a DC to make adjustments. I didn't see it, and the Colts started out good, but faded on D.....like Coyer's Defense did when he was with Denver.

Manning had to thread the ball in everywhere, and Brees had WIDE OPEN guys all day and they got even more wide open late in the game. It was supposed to be a shootout and it turned into one after the half. The Indy D was often out of position and struggled after the half......which is when you would adjust, right? Remember that the saints offense started to move pretty effectively at the end of the first half, so it wasn't like they came out after the half and switched things up (aside from OS kick, of course. After that they cruised right down the field)

Kaylore
02-08-2010, 08:53 AM
The momentum turned when the Saints fielded the on-side kick (not Coyer's fault) and the Colts offense kept punting the ball back to the Saints only scoring seven points in the second half with a failed field goal and a pick six (again, both have nothing to do with Coyer). You guys are just in denial.

2KBack
02-08-2010, 09:07 AM
The momentum turned when the Saints fielded the on-side kick (not Coyer's fault) and the Colts offense kept punting the ball back to the Saints only scoring seven points in the second half with a failed field goal and a pick six (again, both have nothing to do with Coyer). You guys are just in denial.

Actually, the Colts only punted the ball twice as well. The colts defense simply could not get off the field,and that really is directly pointed at Coyer. I don't blame him for the loss, there aren't any signifigant stats to blame any one unit for that. The closest key to victoy in this game was the Saints ability to keep Manning on the sideline. The only thing that stopped manning on offense was the pick and a couple of dropped passes by Garcon and Wayne. The Colts played the classic defense of nothing big, and make them work the short stuff down the field until they make a mistake. It failed, the saints were happy to take their time and play safe ball.

Look, I don't blame Coyer for the loss. I do think that people have overrated Coyer though. He's good, he keeps teams competitive, but he isn't going to put together a game plan to dominate good offenses, and he also will not match wits well with talented OC's.

Garcia Bronco
02-08-2010, 09:23 AM
Coyer got abused.
Manning playd like crap
Freeny was a stiff in the second
Caldwell got outcoached

I couldn't help but think about how badly both those teams would hav been destroyed by the 1998 Broncos.

Popps
02-08-2010, 09:24 AM
Coyer got abused.
Manning playd like crap
Freeny was a stiff in the second
Caldwell got outcoached

I couldn't help but think about how badly both those teams would hav been destroyed by the 1998 Broncos.

Wouldn't have even been close.

Gob
02-08-2010, 09:26 AM
Coyer did exactly what he was supposed to do, took away what the Saints do best. The Saints had to go underneath all game. If you want to take away the short underneath routes, you leave yourself vulnerable for what the Saints do best, explosive big plays downfield. If you blitz Brees, you leave yourself vulnerable for the same. That would certainly have helped with the time of possession problem, but at the cost of the Saints scoring more points. The best pass rusher is injured and Brees excells at getting big plays vs blitzes, yet the O only scores 24? Not enough, but still well done.

Old Dude
02-08-2010, 11:03 AM
1. Paul Tonevossi
2. The Claw in the second round
3. Dale Carter

....it's not the worst but it is right up there.

Uhm, not dumping on Shanny, because he made a lot of great moves as well, but ...

4. Failing to bring in Wilie Roaf, future Hall of Famer, who badly wanted to play here.

5. Signing SOB to long term contract (and screwing our salary cap for years) AFTER the injury that ruined his arm.

6. 2002: Ashley instead of ED REED

7. Letting go of Pryce & Sharpe.



I can think of a few others ...

Inkana7
02-08-2010, 11:15 AM
If I was a Broncos fan turned Colts fan, after that first quarter, it would give me haunting memories of the 2005 AFC Championship game.

bronco militia
02-08-2010, 11:24 AM
If I was a Broncos fan turned Colts fan, after that first quarter, it would give me haunting memories of the 2005 AFC Championship game.

I got that feeling watching B-Marsh catch 21 against the colts

WolfpackGuy
02-08-2010, 11:26 AM
The momentum turned when the Saints fielded the on-side kick (not Coyer's fault) and the Colts offense kept punting the ball back to the Saints only scoring seven points in the second half with a failed field goal and a pick six (again, both have nothing to do with Coyer). You guys are just in denial.

The onside kick was HUGE, but I thought the tide began to turn when the Colts went three and out after stuffing the Saints at the goalline near the end of the first half. NO got great field position to tack on 3 points going into the break.

24champ
02-08-2010, 11:30 AM
Saw this stat regarding Drew Brees play.


1st quarter-

Completed 3 of 7 passes
27 Passing yds
0 TD 0 Int
Passer rating of 53.9


Then the rest of the game...

29-32
261 Yds
2 TDs 0 int
Passer rating of 121.5.


That's just mind boggling.

Rock Chalk
02-08-2010, 11:33 AM
Most definitely in those two cases, you're right. It's called controlling the ball. If you don't do this against high powered offenses, you'll end up scored on.

I can't imagine how anyone could look at this game and pin the loss on Coyer. Pretty stupid.

A great DC allows 7 points in 3 quarters of football to get your team back in it. A great DC Does not allow a team to score on every possession after the first two possessions.

I dont know if Coyer is completely at fault here but he did fail at making adjustments throughout that game. Gregg Williams made adjustments and held a very high powered potent offense to 7 points after the first quarter. Coyer didn't make adjustments and proceeded to give up 23 points after the first quarter.

WolfpackGuy
02-08-2010, 11:39 AM
Saw this stat regarding Drew Brees play.


1st quarter-

Completed 3 of 7 passes
27 Passing yds
0 TD 0 Int
Passer rating of 53.9


Then the rest of the game...

29-32
261 Yds
2 TDs 0 int
Passer rating of 121.5.


That's just mind boggling.

One incompletion was on a spike.

Another was just a plain ol' drop by a wide open Colston.

Truly an amazing performance.

Popps
02-08-2010, 11:54 AM
If I was a Broncos fan turned Colts fan, after that first quarter, it would give me haunting memories of the 2005 AFC Championship game.

Bingo.

Taco John
02-08-2010, 11:56 AM
A great DC allows 7 points in 3 quarters of football to get your team back in it. A great DC Does not allow a team to score on every possession after the first two possessions.

I dont know if Coyer is completely at fault here but he did fail at making adjustments throughout that game. Gregg Williams made adjustments and held a very high powered potent offense to 7 points after the first quarter. Coyer didn't make adjustments and proceeded to give up 23 points after the first quarter.


You can't just say "he failed at making adjustments," and not point out the adjustments that he failed to make.

24champ
02-08-2010, 12:09 PM
One incompletion was on a spike.

Another was just a plain ol' drop by a wide open Colston.

Truly an amazing performance.

Yeah it was, I would chalk up that 1st quarter performance as Super Bowl jitters.

Popps
02-08-2010, 12:23 PM
You can't just say "he failed at making adjustments," and not point out the adjustments that he failed to make.

Not stopping a passing play... ever.

This marks something like the 4th or 5th time in HUGE games that his defense simply couldn't even come close to interrupting the opposing QB's flow. As Inkana pointed out... we've seen this before.

You blamed it on Plummer before, now you're blaming it on Manning.

The bottom line is, a defensive unit has to be able to operate as its own entity, to some degree. Every time a defense allows a score, you can't just say... "well, if the offense wouldn't have done this or that... that never would have happened."

The mark of a great defense is one that can help its team win a game, DESPITE having offensive troubles. That's playoff football.

When the Saints recovered that onside kick... it wasn't worth 7 points until Indy's D let them march down and score. Had Indy's D stepped up and made a defensive stand... that trick-play would have been a non-story.

Again, Coyer's squad had a nice season. But, there's a pattern here. Having a healthy Freeney certainly would have helped. But, Brees basically didn't throw an incompletion after thet 2nd quarter. Something is wrong in that scenario.

Beantown Bronco
02-08-2010, 12:25 PM
Why do people equate "giving up yds/pts" with "not making adjustments"?

Couldn't it possibly be that the 2nd half Indy defense DID make adjustments, but the 2nd half NO offense simply made either different or better adjustments of their own?

bendog
02-08-2010, 12:39 PM
What game did you watch? LOL In the second qtr Indy ran SIX offensive snaps. The Saints had one 9 play drive for a fg. A 13 play drive stopped at 4-1 at the goal. And a 4 play drive for 19 yds and a fg to close the half. No, Indy didn't have any defensive adjustments to make. Not at all.\

But I would agree that the Saint's plan was to control the ball and limit Manning's touches. Still, Coyer seemed to be trying to keep the game in front of his safeties. The Saints could run recievers deep and clear out underneath cause Coyer seemed to be playing deep, which is what he did in Den. That would be understandable, because Brees has aired it out all season, but it played into the Saint's game plan.

BroncoBuff
02-08-2010, 12:42 PM
What game did you watch? LOL In the second qtr Indy ran SIX offensive snaps.

Yeah, the first long Saints drive and the onsides kick really skewed TOP... when Manning threw his first pass in the 2nd half, Jim Nantz said it had been 79 minutes in real time since he had thrown one.

TheReverend
02-08-2010, 12:49 PM
It was 5 years ago guys... and currently the Denver Broncos have a lot more issues to work out than Larry Coyer does, so why not focus on our own dysfunctional team instead of the AFC Champions?

Taco John
02-08-2010, 12:50 PM
Not stopping a passing play... ever.

This marks something like the 4th or 5th time in HUGE games that his defense simply couldn't even come close to interrupting the opposing QB's flow. As Inkana pointed out... we've seen this before.

You blamed it on Plummer before, now you're blaming it on Manning.

The bottom line is, a defensive unit has to be able to operate as its own entity, to some degree. Every time a defense allows a score, you can't just say... "well, if the offense wouldn't have done this or that... that never would have happened."

The mark of a great defense is one that can help its team win a game, DESPITE having offensive troubles. That's playoff football.

When the Saints recovered that onside kick... it wasn't worth 7 points until Indy's D let them march down and score. Had Indy's D stepped up and made a defensive stand... that trick-play would have been a non-story.

Again, Coyer's squad had a nice season. But, there's a pattern here. Having a healthy Freeney certainly would have helped. But, Brees basically didn't throw an incompletion after thet 2nd quarter. Something is wrong in that scenario.


You sure you know what an adjustment is, chief?

"Not stopping a passing play ever" is not an adjustment.

24champ
02-08-2010, 12:51 PM
onsides kick really skewed TOP...

It was only skewed because the Colts defense allowed Brees to have his way.

Like Popps said, they didn't earn 7 points for recovering an onside kick.

Merlin
02-08-2010, 12:53 PM
Sean Payton pulled all the punches in this game and it won a super bowl for the Saints. Where were the great calls and leadership from the Colts?
Agreed. Can you give me an example of where Dungy did the same as Payton? The only thing that comes close is when PM told Dungy to take the ST back in because HE was going for it in 4th down, during a game in the playoff rounds of their SB win. Dungy has never demonstrated the guts that SP showed last night, and I can't think of any game in which Dungy coached to SP's degree. So to suggest that Dungy's leadership would have made a difference is a gigantic stretch.

As to Kaylore's point regarding Freeney. Indy was not able to stop New Orleans after the 1st qtr, and Freeney was still playing well in the 2nd qtr. The only reason Indy didn't score on the goal line stand is because the NO's player slipped on his way in. Nonetheless, Indy could not stop NO's after they started making the short-medium range passes up the middle, and a healthy Freeney would not have made a difference because those are fairly quick passes. The adjustment had to be made with the LB's and a nickle CB in the middle of the field, but there was none to be seen. 24 points after the First Qtr. In fact, they could have scored 10 in the 2nd Qtr alone if the NO's player does not slip with 2 yds to go.

Coyer's D has rarely if ever been beaten by strong running team. But every team with a passing game has beaten him in the playoffs (NE had a good passing game, but that win had more to do with Champ than Coyer). Lucky for him they met the Jets on the way there. A team with great running and mediocre passing. No wonder he was able to stop them.

Popps
02-08-2010, 12:54 PM
You sure you know what an adjustment is, chief?

"Not stopping a passing play ever" is not an adjustment.

Obviously, it was a joke.

That said, yea... one adjustment I would attempt to make would be to put oen of my players in position to stop a pass... at some point in an important game.

We saw a repeat of what has plagued his defenses in so many past big games.

Coincidence? Who knows.

bendog
02-08-2010, 12:58 PM
Well, assuming Coyer brought up a safety and tried to choke off the short stuff, Brees would have killed them deep ... unless Freeney was planting Brees. So, I'd question what they did initially, and it's not that the Saints didn't have success getting guys open underneath early, because Colquitt killed their second drive with a drop that would have been a first down. Freeney was pretty much useless after the first 10-15 offensive snaps. But just watching on tv, it's really impossible to see if it's even cover two. Nance and the color guy both noted that Indy's safeties were keeping the game in front of them. And it was reported this a.m. that the Saints all along wanted ball control, and the decision to make the on sides kick was intended from the moment the saints won the flip to recieve the ball. That was two entire possessions they kept it away from Manning. So, while there's no doubt Williams was the DC with adjustments, Payton just outcoached Indy.

(Williams has played the run soft early on, and then come up with safties later in the game. They did that to Minny too)

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 02:16 PM
The momentum turned when the Saints fielded the on-side kick (not Coyer's fault) and the Colts offense kept punting the ball back to the Saints only scoring seven points in the second half with a failed field goal and a pick six (again, both have nothing to do with Coyer). You guys are just in denial.

Let's quote 24champ

1st quarter-

Completed 3 of 7 passes
27 Passing yds
0 TD 0 Int
Passer rating of 53.9


Then the rest of the game...

29-32
261 Yds
2 TDs 0 int
Passer rating of 121.5.


Regardless of the momentum changing or not - it's still the responsibility of the defense to play well... you don't just take the pin off because of philosophical beliefs.

Anyone not including Coyer in the mix of the Colts failure is anything but a intelligent person.

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 02:25 PM
It was 5 years ago guys... and currently the Denver Broncos have a lot more issues to work out than Larry Coyer does, so why not focus on our own dysfunctional team instead of the AFC Champions?

Because it was the Super Bowl?

LOL

Gob
02-08-2010, 02:28 PM
Let's quote 24champ

1st quarter-

Completed 3 of 7 passes
27 Passing yds
0 TD 0 Int
Passer rating of 53.9


Then the rest of the game...

29-32
261 Yds
2 TDs 0 int
Passer rating of 121.5.


Regardless of the momentum changing or not - it's still the responsibility of the defense to play well... you don't just take the pin off because of philosophical beliefs.

Anyone not including Coyer in the mix of the Colts failure is anything but a intelligent person.

Just out of curiosity, your generally a McDaniels defender, aren't you? No connection, just asking....

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 02:32 PM
Just out of curiosity, your generally a McDaniels defender, aren't you? No connection, just asking....

:rofl:

Yes - all I post about is McDaniels.

It's pretty cool that the first thread I made after the season ended, it was about McDaniels failing. But we'll just completely disregard that.

But you guys only see things in the fire. :thumbs:

Gob
02-08-2010, 02:35 PM
:rofl:

Yes - all I post about is McDaniels.

It's pretty cool that the first thread I made after the season ended, it was about McDaniels failing. But we'll just completely disregard that.

But you guys only see things in the fire. :thumbs:

Well then your consistent and your post makes sense to me. Just giving you a hard time.

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 02:36 PM
Well then your consistent and your post makes sense to me. Just giving you a hard time.

I don't mind - I prefer it haha

Mile High Mojoe
02-08-2010, 03:19 PM
Coyer had little to do with this loss, he didn't miss recovering an on-sides kick and he didn't throw the INT that sealed the deal.

I remember way back when, many people on this board couldn't wait to boot Coyer out of Denver. He's proven to be a great DC and in my mind has vindicated himself nicely with the Colts. Broncos Fans who were Coyer Haters are now eating humble pie.

I was in the camp that said he should have stayed in Denver but Shanahan made him the fall guy after the 2006 AFC Championship Game. I know itís an old and tired worn out subject to some but Plummer not Coyerís D blew the game. Down the stretch of that season they were not playing as well as they did at the start but that D in 2006 was good enough to win a Super Bowl. All the tools for a 3rd ring where there but it was all for not because we had a bumbling choke artist at QB.

I havenít been on the board for a while so bombs away, Plummer lovers, back him up and convince me that he alone wasnít the one who cost us a 3rd ring

As it turns out now that opportunity may be the last one for very long time. Honestly the way I feel today the Broncos are farther away from a Championship than they were before the great teams of the 70ís.

Off the topic of this thread but Iím glad Bowlen mentioned possibly drafting a QB. The Broncos need all kinds of help at many positions but none so much as QB. Why waste another season with Orton and thatís what itíll be, maybe a Rookie wonít start but at least after McGenius loses his job after the 2010 season maybe then the process of putting the Broncos back together again will begin.

Iím feeling very pessimistic about the Broncos future, I want to believe theyíll rebound but I just donít see it happening in the near future. All you Tony Roberts Broncos Fans can commence with an all out attack now.

TheReverend
02-08-2010, 03:27 PM
Because it was the Super Bowl?

LOL

Kinda my point, exactly.

You're trying to **** on someone who coached a large part of a superbowl team, yet you are all up in arms defending our 2-8 finish and dismissal of Mike Nolan to defend all that is Josh.

Get some perspective and **** in your own house

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 03:32 PM
Coyer had little to do with this loss, he didn't miss recovering an on-sides kick and he didn't throw the INT that sealed the deal.


I didn't know those were the only 2 plays that happened during the game.

Coyer had "little" to do with the loss is a bit of an understatement.

I'm not sure how Manning not throwing the ball for 79 minutes is not his fault. I'm not sure how not being able to stop the freight train Saints ran was not his fault. I'm not sure how allowing Brees to go 29-32 is not his fault. It's not his fault that he did absolutely nothing to pressure Brees once Dwight's ankle caught up to him. It's not his fault his defense made 2 great defensive plays the whole game. It's not his fault the Colts couldn't create any TO's. It's not his fault you didn't see a Saints punt after the 1st quarter.

With your logic - it's not the coaches fault that they lost it's the players because they didn't make the plays.

Coyer and that defense is just as much at fault as the offense - if not more. The fact is the offense did more than the defense were able to with the given opportunities.

Mile High Mojoe
02-08-2010, 03:33 PM
kinda my point, exactly.

You're trying to **** on someone who coached a large part of a superbowl team, yet you are all up in arms defending our 2-8 finish and dismissal of mike nolan to defend all that is josh.

Get some perspective and **** in your own house


^5

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 03:36 PM
Kinda my point, exactly.

You're trying to **** on someone who coached a large part of a superbowl team, yet you are all up in arms defending our 2-8 finish and dismissal of Mike Nolan to defend all that is Josh.

Get some perspective and **** in your own house

The first thread I made as the season ended was the failure of the Denver Broncos and McDaniels. Completely disregard that though.

You're logic doesn't make any sense anyways... what does me ****ting on someone who coached in the super bowl and defending someone on our team have anything to do in correlation? What, are we not allowed to talk about these topics on the forum? The Super Bowl just happened YESTERDAY man - the topic is still very relevant and fresh.

SMH... I'm not the one here asking people to photoshop myself onto homo pictures. Hilarious!

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 03:36 PM
^5

Did that smiley come from the gay teenage boys forum?

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 03:53 PM
The Saints scored on 5 of the last 6 drives of the game ( the drive where they didn't score was the 4th down goal line stop). The scored on all 4 of their drives after that goal line stop. The Saints did not punt the ball after the first 2 drives of the game.

This is the type of stat where you can repeat over and over and it will pretty much negate anything in attempt to take the pin off of the defense (and amongst Broncos fans, Coyer).

FOR THE RECORD

The Colts offense did not play well either.

TheReverend
02-08-2010, 04:04 PM
You were expecting a clash of defensive titans, I presume?

Gob
02-08-2010, 04:04 PM
There is a hell of a lot of weak link defenses out there then, the Colts held the Saints O to the least amount of points of any D they played in the playoffs, and from a quick look only the Jets, Cowboys and Buc's D held them to less during the regular season (not counting the Panthers vs the backups).


Edit: It is worth pointing out that the Jets - Colts game was 17 to 30 but nobody said the Jets defense was the weakest link. I think the Jets head coach said before the Jet/Colt game he didn't expect his defense to hold the Colts 5th place offense under 24 points, which is how much the Colts D gave up to the second place offense of the Saints.

DBroncos4life
02-08-2010, 04:25 PM
Another spin off thread by this guy! All I what to know is what did Justin Spiers, Billy Spiers, Blake Myers, Harry Mitchell, and Frank Velasquez from Modesto think of the game.

Really who cares anyways, I take it you approved of Mike Shanahan decision to fire Coyer then.

steeledude
02-08-2010, 04:40 PM
As much **** as I gave Coyer while he was in Denver, I can't say his unit did anything wrong against the Saints.

In fact if we could get Coyer back I'd say take him in a heartbeat--he is second to Nolan in my opinion. If he had some defensive talent to work with things might have been different. I'm just thinking back what he did with the Browns defensive line. Amazing!

His patchwork blitz schemes didn't work against Manning, but they kept us in most games.

Mr.Meanie
02-08-2010, 04:42 PM
I like Coyer, and I thought the Colts defense was very underrated this year... but they could get absolutely zero pressure on Brees. He took that defense apart.

Peoples Champ
02-08-2010, 04:55 PM
well if you do take out the pick 7 that manning threw, the colts Defense held the Saints well under their season average of 35 pts per game,

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/totalPointsPerGame

NASurfer
02-08-2010, 05:00 PM
The Saints scored on 5 of the last 6 drives of the game ( the drive where they didn't score was the 4th down goal line stop). The scored on all 4 of their drives after that goal line stop. The Saints did not punt the ball after the first 2 drives of the game.

This is the type of stat where you can repeat over and over and it will pretty much negate anything in attempt to take the pin off of the defense (and amongst Broncos fans, Coyer).

FOR THE RECORD

The Colts offense did not play well either.
Hey, be glad the Saints didn't have one wide receiver with like 350+ yards receiving.

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 05:07 PM
I am honestly baffled by the stupidity on this forum. Yes, DBroncos4life, I am once again talking about how people are incapable of any football logic.

How can you read what I just said and say the Colts defense didn't do anything wrong? What did they do to help out the Colts? The Saints and Colts are both high powered offense teams - so that leaves you with what? Special Teams and Defense.

This was full complementary football by the Saints, and those clock killing drives that ended up in scores EVERY time was my point.

How the hell can you read what I said and say Colts defense didn't do anything wrong? What did they do RIGHT?

What did the Colts defense do to help out the offense?

I honestly feel like some forum members have big giant holes in their brain.

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 05:11 PM
There is a hell of a lot of weak link defenses out there then, the Colts held the Saints O to the least amount of points of any D they played in the playoffs, and from a quick look only the Jets, Cowboys and Buc's D held them to less during the regular season (not counting the Panthers vs the backups).


Edit: It is worth pointing out that the Jets - Colts game was 17 to 30 but nobody said the Jets defense was the weakest link. I think the Jets head coach said before the Jet/Colt game he didn't expect his defense to hold the Colts 5th place offense under 24 points, which is how much the Colts D gave up to the second place offense of the Saints.
:notthissh

How old are you?

Why are you making comparisons for Rex Ryan saying he didn't expect to hold Colts offense under 24 points to how much points the Colts gave up to the SAINTS? WTF?

DBroncos4life
02-08-2010, 05:23 PM
I'm sure you are factoring Freeney's health when evaluating this game right? They did everything they could to prevent the Saints from going deep on them and making the big play. That appeared to be the game plan and hope that they could get enough out of Freeney and the front four to disrupt Brees. They failed to do that and lost. Despite how bad you believed that the Colts D let them down they were only down by 7 points with 5:42 left to play in the game. You act like they made it impossible for the Colts to win this game.
Did the D play great? Nope they share equal amount of blame but as others have pointed out the Colts D allowed less then the Saints offensive scoring average while the Colts failed to match its season average or the average points allowed by the Saints D.

I don't know why it is so difficult for you to give credit to the coaching staff of the Saints. They risked more to win the Super Bowl and took chances like no other team I have seen before. No one saw that onside kick coming. It was unheard of and changed the tide of that game.

Popps
02-08-2010, 05:42 PM
No one saw that onside kick coming. It was unheard of and changed the tide of that game.

Of course, Indy did have the option to actually stop the subsequent drive.

The onside kick didn't score 7 points. The slice-up job Brees did on Indy's defense did.

It helps to be able to stop QBs in big games.

Gob
02-08-2010, 06:04 PM
:notthissh

How old are you?

Why are you making comparisons for Rex Ryan saying he didn't expect to hold Colts offense under 24 points to how much points the Colts gave up to the SAINTS? WTF?

Let me make it as simple as I can.
Jets - good defense, not the weakest link of team in any game they played, or do you disagree?
Jets head coach does not expect his defense (which he thinks is as good as any in the league) to keep Colts offense from scoring 24 points. The ultra cocky defensive minded Jets coach. If jets D do hold Indy to around 24, they did their job according to him. I know that was a long one but I hope your still with me.
Now... here comes the tricky part but stick with it.
Saints offense averages almost 10 more points per game then the Colts over the season, and scores more in each game of the playoffs then the Colts do, yet the Colts D holds the Saints O to 24 points. If giving up around 24 points is the most that Rex Ryan could ask his top D to do against an offense that averages 22 points a game, who the hell are you to say allowing 24 points against an offense that averages 36 points per game is anything but a good job?

DBroncos4life
02-08-2010, 06:08 PM
Of course, Indy did have the option to actually stop the subsequent drive.

The onside kick didn't score 7 points. The slice-up job Brees did on Indy's defense did.

It helps to be able to stop QBs in big games.

Well not everyone has as strong of a defense as what the Saints had this year. Combine that with their rushing attack from that game and it was just another typical case of the team that plays better defense and runs the ball better winning the game.

blackpower
02-08-2010, 06:25 PM
manning sucks thats why they lost

Cito Pelon
02-08-2010, 06:37 PM
There's an argument to me made that the Indy D f'd it up. I think it was more about the Colt's O couldn't put the Saints away.

A big deal was in the first half the Saints won the field position battle, they were able to get some first downs in the first half even though they didn't score much, and their punter was dropping the ball beautifully inside the 10.

Hell, the Indy O ran 6 plays in the second quarter, then the Saints pulled off the onside kick to open the third quarter.

Basically the Saints outplayed the Colts in all three phases. The Saint kicker nailed three field goals over 44 yards, right? Nine points, that was 37% of their total offensive points. Hartley should have been co-MVP.

Archer81
02-08-2010, 06:43 PM
I hate it when a superbowl telecast uses the Broncos as a negative stat...(biggest SB deficit being 10 points...****ing Redskins...) The Colts went up 10-0, looked awesome, then proceeded to get outscored 31-7. Colts defense didnt do the job. Colts offense couldnt do much when they did get the ball. Colts Fail.

:Broncos:

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 07:00 PM
I'm sure you are factoring Freeney's health when evaluating this game right? They did everything they could to prevent the Saints from going deep on them and making the big play. That appeared to be the game plan and hope that they could get enough out of Freeney and the front four to disrupt Brees. They failed to do that and lost. Despite how bad you believed that the Colts D let them down they were only down by 7 points with 5:42 left to play in the game. You act like they made it impossible for the Colts to win this game.
Did the D play great? Nope they share equal amount of blame but as others have pointed out the Colts D allowed less then the Saints offensive scoring average while the Colts failed to match its season average or the average points allowed by the Saints D.

I don't know why it is so difficult for you to give credit to the coaching staff of the Saints. They risked more to win the Super Bowl and took chances like no other team I have seen before. No one saw that onside kick coming. It was unheard of and changed the tide of that game.

Oh no, don't get me wrong - I give ALL the credit in the world to Drew Brees - Sean Payton - Gregg Williams - the New Orleans Saints. Saints definitely deserved this win and it was a brilliant performance on all cylinders.

Gregg Williams and the scheme they ran this year is one of the first schemes I've seen in a while that was as aggressive as they were and played a 4-3. They did it with limited talent and the coaches did a great job of helping their DB's learn to be in the right position at crucial times.

Colts offense definitely fucced up. In most their key situational plays they failed.

Onside kick. Garcon's dropped 3rd down pass. 3 and out right after a 4th down goaline stop (Manning didn't even get to make a play? I personally thought this was an extremely crucial situation. I believe there was a little under 2 minutes to go and you have a chance to let Manning run his great 2 minute offense but you run it 3 straight times. Saints only ended up with 3, but believe that this was a huge momentum opp for Colts and they failed). Stovers missed FG...etc.

I don't believe the D did anything to deserve to win the Super Bowl or to help the offense, that's what I'm saying. The Colts had less opportunities than the Saints. The offense got off to a hot start and cooled down (congrats Saints). However the defense never showed up after the 1st quarter.

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 07:07 PM
Let me make it as simple as I can.
Jets - good defense, not the weakest link of team in any game they played, or do you disagree?
Jets head coach does not expect his defense (which he thinks is as good as any in the league) to keep Colts offense from scoring 24 points. The ultra cocky defensive minded Jets coach. If jets D do hold Indy to around 24, they did their job according to him. I know that was a long one but I hope your still with me.
Now... here comes the tricky part but stick with it.
Saints offense averages almost 10 more points per game then the Colts over the season, and scores more in each game of the playoffs then the Colts do, yet the Colts D holds the Saints O to 24 points. If giving up around 24 points is the most that Rex Ryan could ask his top D to do against an offense that averages 22 points a game, who the hell are you to say allowing 24 points against an offense that averages 36 points per game is anything but a good job?

I get what you're saying - but trust me when I say this - you're reaching pretty far with your comparisons. Rex Ryan talking about holding Colts to 24 point is press talk. If you seen his persona enough - you'd know his whole mantra would to not allow the Colts to score period. That means - 24 points would still be too much. Who knows what his game plan was - but to hope that his offense would score 24+ points is a reach against the Colts. Again - that doesn't matter - you're talking about 2 different teams - 2 different coaches - 2 different schemes - 2 different playing styles. 2 different game plans, period. You're reaching pretty far, I know you hope you think what you're saying makes sense - but to anyone in the football world - it irrelevant. Saying that since Rex said this means that Colts did this against the Saints means this etc etc is absolutely ludicrous.

Saints won the game with not allowing Manning to touch the ball with ball control offense. Read my post again and tell me - how can you say the defense did good? Because they allowed 24 points? Or do you completely disregard momentum and other variables of the game? This isn't Madden.

Keeping Manning off the field for 79 minutes isn't something you'd exactly credit to the defense.

The Saints gained momentum EVERY TIME they touched the ball. They were not stopped AT ALL in the 2nd half!

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 07:08 PM
Oh don't forget - credit to the Saints kicker... not much experience and setting a SB record with clutch FG's that were right down the middle...

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 07:12 PM
29/32 passes after the 1st quarter... think about it!!! That's exactly the type of sh1t that happened with Slowik/Coyer! Bend but don't break... same thing we tried to do - KEEP THE BALL IN FRONT OF US.

I think if there's anything to be learned in super bowl champions - it is that you need to be AGGRESSIVE.

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 07:14 PM
Well not everyone has as strong of a defense as what the Saints had this year. Combine that with their rushing attack from that game and it was just another typical case of the team that plays better defense and runs the ball better winning the game.

RUNS THE BALL BETTER???

Saints

18 attempts 51 yards 2.8 average 0 TD

Colts

19 attempts 99 yards 5.2 average 1 TD

:notthissh

DBroncos4life
02-08-2010, 07:19 PM
RUNS THE BALL BETTER???

Saints

18 attempts 51 yards 2.8 average 0 TD

Colts

19 attempts 99 yards 5.2 average 1 TD

:notthissh

One would think someone as bright as you would come to recognize a sarcastic post.

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 07:23 PM
One would think someone as bright as you would come to recognize a sarcastic post.

I didn't read it with a sarcastic vibe because they did play better defense... scratch it though - if you were sarcastic then so be it.

azbroncfan
02-08-2010, 07:27 PM
Well not everyone has as strong of a defense as what the Saints had this year. Combine that with their rushing attack from that game and it was just another typical case of the team that plays better defense and runs the ball better winning the game.

I don't care bringing up the stats but I would dare wager that the Colts ran the ball better. Saints won with good defensive adjustments and only gave Manning 8 possessions. Coyer didn't make any adjustments and once NO figured it out after first three drives they carved them up. It reminded me of the Colts/Broncos game in Cutler's rookie year were Coyer let Manning dink and dunk there way to a victory when Denver was supposed to have a great D.

DBroncos4life
02-08-2010, 07:37 PM
I didn't read it with a sarcastic vibe because they did play better defense... scratch it though - if you were sarcastic then so be it.

That game they played better then Indy's. Regular season not so much. They are aggressive and took advantage of Manning's rare mistake. It's not often Manning will lock on and make that throw. Still the Saints D has to be one of the worst D yards allowed (25th) and points allowed (20th) defenses to win the Super Bowl in awhile. Popps post that I was quoting was talking about the better D won which really that isn't true. Indy just got out played on all three phase of that football game.

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 07:39 PM
I don't care bringing up the stats but I would dare wager that the Colts ran the ball better. Saints won with good defensive adjustments and only gave Manning 8 possessions. Coyer didn't make any adjustments and once NO figured it out after first three drives they carved them up. It reminded me of the Colts/Broncos game in Cutler's rookie year were Coyer let Manning dink and dunk there way to a victory when Denver was supposed to have a great D.

I guess I wasn't the only one that didn't get a sarcastic vibe.:~ohyah!:

azbroncfan
02-08-2010, 07:47 PM
That game they played better then Indy's. Regular season not so much. They are aggressive and took advantage of Manning's rare mistake. It's not often Manning will lock on and make that throw. Still the Saints D has to be one of the worst D yards allowed (25th) and points allowed (20th) defenses to win the Super Bowl in awhile. Popps post that I was quoting was talking about the better D won which really that isn't true. Indy just got out played on all three phase of that football game.

Well you said played better D and I don't care what they were in regular season but they played better anyway. Your team will be at the bottom of the league in Defensive stats when your Offenses scores so quick and so much. I am guessing without looking at the stats that NO D was on the field more than most. The Cards D was terrible last year til the playoffs and then they played downright nasty. If you were sarcastic I guess I didn't get it but no hard feelings.

TheReverend
02-08-2010, 09:11 PM
The first thread I made as the season ended was the failure of the Denver Broncos and McDaniels. Completely disregard that though.

You're logic doesn't make any sense anyways... what does me ****ting on someone who coached in the super bowl and defending someone on our team have anything to do in correlation? What, are we not allowed to talk about these topics on the forum? The Super Bowl just happened YESTERDAY man - the topic is still very relevant and fresh.

SMH... I'm not the one here asking people to photoshop myself onto homo pictures. Hilarious!

If you can't see the massive success that he coached as it's staring you in the face, then you're oblivious beyond any regard. Do I have multiple issues with some of his playoff decisions in Denver? Yes. Do I think he was the "weak link" for the Colts this season or yesterday? No, and I think that's a retardedly laughable question.

As per your last picture... wow, that really hurts my feelings, coming from the self-dubbed MV"Playa"

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 11:06 PM
If you can't see the massive success that he coached as it's staring you in the face, then you're oblivious beyond any regard. Do I have multiple issues with some of his playoff decisions in Denver? Yes. Do I think he was the "weak link" for the Colts this season or yesterday? No, and I think that's a retardedly laughable question.

As per your last picture... wow, that really hurts my feelings, coming from the self-dubbed MV"Playa"

lol @ taking the lex route with my user name - when you have to resort to that it's pretty sad because I'm probably more intelligent and educated than you - that's only in that area of life. This is the internet though - you're dealing with face value. Hilarious!

You're favorite players/athletes have self dubbed names and all that BS that are 10000x worst than me - stop acting as if my MVPlaya user name is the representation of stupidity.

all I said was that the Colts D and Coyer were the weakest link to the Super Bowl loss - that's all I said.

Massive success? What "massive" success are you talking about? The defense that was 18th in the league last year? I surely as hope you're not talking about the year when we made it to the AFC Championships, when we were 5th in offense and 15th in defense. Our 3rd in the league scoring defense was nice though.

Don't get me wrong - Coyer put us in a good position that year and we were exposed again, maybe because it was because we failed to play offensively but that is the problem with this bend but don't break defense. If you're offense ain't clicking - you're defense won't be there to lift it up.

Let's put it like this - if the defense actually played anywhere near the offense - they'd have a better chance of winning. But this statement is all hindsight. LOL

My point is that his bend but don't break defense broke as it did with us against the Steelers.

Laughable question? How can you read that the Saints did not punt after the first 2 drives - scored on every single drive but 1 (4th down goaline stop) after the 2nd drive - that Drew Brees went 29/32 after the 1st quarter - and say they aren't the weak link? Is that laughable or are you just disregarding these stats because you're like every other dumbass that has tunnel vision?

You've proven yourself to me and by comment of many other members here to be pretty much worthless like a piece of sh*tt when it comes to anything related to football. You make statements with nothing whatsoever as proof - as reasoning. You just blab about random sh*t with no reasoning. These words are not only from my mouth either, Hilarious!

Why don't you actually respond with something that I can read from a football standpoint?

Popps
02-08-2010, 11:37 PM
My point is that his bend but don't break defense broke as it did with us against the Steelers.

(2005) It was just broken... out of the gate, for that whole game. It never had a chance to bend. The Steelers went through us like a junior varsity team from start to finish. Just another massive collapse in a big game for our defense.

In any case, it's a new era. Let's hope we can build a D that shows up big in big games.

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 11:40 PM
(2005) It was just broken... out of the gate, for that whole game. It never had a chance to bend. The Steelers went through us like a junior varsity team from start to finish. Just another massive collapse in a big game for our defense.

In any case, it's a new era. Let's hope we can build a D that shows up big in big games.

lol exactly.

We need an aggressive defense, I'm glad we're done with this conservative bend but don't break BS. But most importantly - being able to play in big game situations is key. Not the easiest thing though - just ask the Chargers - they've been SB favorites for the past 100 years and are still looking for their playoff defense. :thanku:

TheReverend
02-09-2010, 12:24 AM
lol @ taking the lex route with my user name - when you have to resort to that it's pretty sad because I'm probably more intelligent and educated than you - that's only in that area of life. This is the internet though - you're dealing with face value. Hilarious!

You're favorite players/athletes have self dubbed names and all that BS that are 10000x worst than me - stop acting as if my MVPlaya user name is the representation of stupidity.

Nothing of substance at all yet. Par for the course with you.

all I said was that the Colts D and Coyer were the weakest link to the Super Bowl loss - that's all I said.

Massive success? What "massive" success are you talking about? The defense that was 18th in the league last year? I surely as hope you're not talking about the year when we made it to the AFC Championships, when we were 5th in offense and 15th in defense. Our 3rd in the league scoring defense was nice though.

I'd call improving the 26th scoring defense in 2008 to 8th in one season with an injury riddled team on the way to a perfect W/L record until the headcoach started pulling starters, and still headed to the superbowl while being a major part of the staff a massive success. All this DESPITE the WORST rushing attack in the lead and thus, an unfavorable time of possession.

Then of course there's the OP thread topic about half-time adjustments when in the championship game, adjustments were made that didn't just improve performance, but SHUT DOWN the opposing offense for the rest of the game.

As for your point of bringing up 2005... apparently you missed my post... you know the one your dumb ass RESPONDED TO:

If you can't see the massive success that he coached as it's staring you in the face, then you're oblivious beyond any regard. Do I have multiple issues with some of his playoff decisions in Denver? Yes. Do I think he was the "weak link" for the Colts this season or yesterday? No, and I think that's a retardedly laughable question.

As per your last picture... wow, that really hurts my feelings, coming from the self-dubbed MV"Playa"



Don't get me wrong - Coyer put us in a good position that year and we were exposed again, maybe because it was because we failed to play offensively but that is the problem with this bend but don't break defense. If you're offense ain't clicking - you're defense won't be there to lift it up.

Let's put it like this - if the defense actually played anywhere near the offense - they'd have a better chance of winning. But this statement is all hindsight. LOL

Apparently you're unaware that the defense held opponents to 20 points or less 13 times this year... and two of the games where they didn't was when they were benching starters.

My point is that his bend but don't break defense broke as it did with us against the Steelers.

Laughable question? How can you read that the Saints did not punt after the first 2 drives - scored on every single drive but 1 (4th down goaline stop) after the 2nd drive - that Drew Brees went 29/32 after the 1st quarter - and say they aren't the weak link? Is that laughable or are you just disregarding these stats because you're like every other dumbass that has tunnel vision?

Apparently you know football so well that you never even watched New Orleans this year.

I mean... otherwise I think you'd know that the only team to match Indianapolis's defensive performance against them up until they hit the wringer in Dallas was the New York Jets, who managed to tie the 24 points surrendered mark despite losing.

You've proven yourself to me and by comment of many other members here to be pretty much worthless like a piece of sh*tt when it comes to anything related to football. You make statements with nothing whatsoever as proof - as reasoning. You just blab about random sh*t with no reasoning. These words are not only from my mouth either, Hilarious!

Yes, you and your ass-pal tsiguy have quite the reputation with posts pertaining to football

Why don't you actually respond with something that I can read from a football standpoint?

Because you apparently can't read and gloss over anything that blatantly contradicts your points and detract from the obvious by creating posts about something entirely different?

But we're the ignorant ones, huh?

You're so far in the ****ing closet you found Narnia.

24champ
02-09-2010, 01:11 AM
I got this from Josina's twitter-

"Cyr iz a baad dfensv cord. Brez toar Cyr up aftr teh frst qtr."

Kaylore
02-09-2010, 01:20 AM
I got this from Josina's twitter-

"Cyr iz a baad dfensv cord. Brez toar Cyr up aftr teh frst qtr."

:spit:

rastaman
02-09-2010, 03:11 AM
Most definitely in those two cases, you're right. It's called controlling the ball. If you don't do this against high powered offenses, you'll end up scored on.

I can't imagine how anyone could look at this game and pin the loss on Coyer. Pretty stupid.

Agreed. Manning and the Colts pass first and often offense is what lost the game for Coyer and his Defense. The Saints had no answer for the Colts running attack. Yet Manning felt it was all about him! He had to show the entire world what a great look at me QB he is. Had the Colts fooled the Saints and the NFL and decided to run/ram the ball down the Saints throats; the Colts would have won the time of possession game. Instead, it was Coyer's defense that were on the field more than the Colts offense was on the field.

Manning has alot of passing records etc., however, if the Colts and Manning want a chance to win 3 or 4 SB's before Manning retires, the Colts must find a way to establish a rushing/running attack where they have 1500 yd plus rusher and actually beat teams with their running attack or the passing attack.

rastaman
02-09-2010, 03:34 AM
(2005) It was just broken... out of the gate, for that whole game. It never had a chance to bend. The Steelers went through us like a junior varsity team from start to finish. Just another massive collapse in a big game for our defense.

In any case, it's a new era. Let's hope we can build a D that shows up big in big games.

Coyer's 2005 Defense would have been good enough for the 97 and 98 Denver Broncos to have won those SB's. What was missing in 2005 team and getting to the SB, was the Broncos offense and players from the 97 and 98 teams. Its extremely difficult if not impossible to ever assemble again the offense and players of the 97 and 98 Broncos.

In fact, Robinson's Defenses of 97 and 98 would have been hard pressed to have held off the Steelers with Denver's inconsistent Jake Plummber led offense at Quarterback.

Also, keep in mind, after Elway and Terrell Davis retired, its was impossible to assemble the same offensive personnel that had carried Denver to two consecutive SB wins. However, Shanhan was able to assemble another Robinson type DC and players in Coyer's 05 and 06 Defense's. Case in point, had Cutler had a Coyer 05 Defense in 07 and 08 he would have had winning records his last two years as a Bronco starter.

I guess you can say timing is everything when trying to put together and assemble a team and key players (W/o Key player injuries) on both sides of the ball to win a SB. Shanahan was able to assemble such teams in 96, 97, and 98. From 99-08 Shanahan was unable to put together teams and players that had been assembled in 96, 97, 98 on both sides of the ball.

The MVPlaya
02-09-2010, 03:48 AM
Nothing of substance at all yet. Par for the course with you.

I'd call improving the 26th scoring defense in 2008 to 8th in one season with an injury riddled team on the way to a perfect W/L record until the headcoach started pulling starters, and still headed to the superbowl while being a major part of the staff a massive success. All this DESPITE the WORST rushing attack in the lead and thus, an unfavorable time of possession.

Then of course there's the OP thread topic about half-time adjustments when in the championship game, adjustments were made that didn't just improve performance, but SHUT DOWN the opposing offense for the rest of the game.

As for your point of bringing up 2005... apparently you missed my post... you know the one your dumb ass RESPONDED TO:

Apparently you're unaware that the defense held opponents to 20 points or less 13 times this year... and two of the games where they didn't was when they were benching starters.

Apparently you know football so well that you never even watched New Orleans this year.

I mean... otherwise I think you'd know that the only team to match Indianapolis's defensive performance against them up until they hit the wringer in Dallas was the New York Jets, who managed to tie the 24 points surrendered mark despite losing.

Yes, you and your ass-pal tsiguy have quite the reputation with posts pertaining to football

Because you apparently can't read and gloss over anything that blatantly contradicts your points and detract from the obvious by creating posts about something entirely different?

But we're the ignorant ones, huh?

You're so far in the ****ing closet you found Narnia.

lol @ Narnia - I liked that. :rofl:

Honestly man - if you're still stuck on that 24 points thing - and that's pretty much the only point you can make - you've pretty much shown you have nothing intelligent to say.

If football was as easy as looking at the scores I'm not sure why we have so many analysts, coaches, statisticians, etc.

I'll just add this -

Saints controlled the clock. They had all the momentum and gained momentum through every single drive. The defense did nothing to stop this - thus BEND. They scored 24 points - in this situation - they didn't break if you want to use their points scored as an indicator. Did the defense "break"? You could go either way, but if you're talking about points, I wouldn't say so.

However in every other facet of the game, yes they broke. Think about how many times we let QB's run over us with high % passing type games (slowik...etc)... it hurts your offense one way or another even you're Peyton Manning.

The fact is it didn't do anything to help the Colts win. Watching to game you could feel the Saints holding all the momentum - Drew Brees was completing passes at WILL. The only thing that didn't break was that goaline stop.

The philosophy of a bend don't break/conservative defense is not to give up the big play. You'll LIVE with allowing QB's to chop you up as long as you make them score in the redzone. The whole idea behind this IS the redzone and hence why the redzone is always a huge battle - that's why they say the game is not won between the 20 yard lines. The IDEA is to get a team within the redzone/kicking distance.

The Saints ATE up clock and it hurt the team just as much as that onside kick.