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bronco militia
02-06-2010, 10:23 PM
Bowlen says Brandon Marshall might be back with Broncos

By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 02/06/2010 08:23:57 PM MST
Updated: 02/06/2010 08:44:23 PM MST


Denver Broncos owner Pat Bowlen watches the clock tic down during their win over the Oakland Raiders 23-3 Sunday, September 27, 2009, at the Oakland Coliseum. (John Leyba, The Denver Post)FORT LAUDERDALE, FLA. — In his first interview since the Broncos faded from a 6-0 start to an 8-8 finish, Pat Bowlen, the team's owner since 1984, addressed his club's hot-button issues with The Denver Post on Super Bowl eve Saturday.

Bowlen said he would like star receiver Brandon Marshall to remain with the Broncos, but wouldn't block a trade if rookie coach Josh McDaniels feels it would benefit the team. Bowlen revealed the plan is for Kyle Orton to remain the Broncos' quarterback, but the team hopes to select another quarterback in the upcoming draft.

Bowlen said he wasn't troubled by McDaniels' decision to bench Marshall and Tony Scheffler in the season's final game, saying it was necessary for a young coach

"If I learned anything, (it) is these kinds of things are learning experiences, especially for a brand new, 33-year-old coach, who obviously has all the pedigree but has never before had the job," Bowlen said. "And now he's faced with the job. And so I think from my standpoint, he did a very good job handling that."

For the first time in his 26-year reign as Broncos owner, Bowlen has gone through four consecutive seasons without a playoff experience.

"Thanks for reminding me," Bowlen said.

In those four seasons, Bowlen often has had a Marshall issue cross his desk. Marshall has been the team's most talented and productive player the past four years. But he also has forced Bowlen to make sure head trainer Steve "Greek" Antonopulos never runs out of aspirin.

"I think Brandon is going through a maturing process," Bowlen said. "Personally, I saw change in his personality and approach to things (this past season). He didn't have the same sort of attitude and anxiety that he's had. I personally would like to see him stay. And there's still a good possibility that could happen."

However, Bowlen understands there are extenuating circumstances to guarantee Marshall's return — most notably the uncertainty of the league's labor situation. Bowlen respected the gag order commissioner Roger Goodell placed on owners at their meeting earlier Saturday, but the Broncos may not be in position to offer multiyear contracts to any of their restricted free agents — a group that includes Marshall, Orton, Scheffler, Elvis Dumervil and Chris Kuper. That's the case so long as there remains a threat of a work stoppage in 2011.

Would Marshall return on a one-year deal?

"I'd like to see Brandon stay," Bowlen said. "Now, if the head coach sits down and says no, I want to trade him, or I've got a deal that's going to be beneficial to the club, I don't think I'm going to override him.

"I think Brandon going through this whole process last year, I think it matured him a little bit, if not a lot. And I think he's, at least I hope he is, wondering if it's the right thing for him to move to another team. I think that's a question mark in his mind. He hasn't told me that, but I have a sense of that."

As for who will throw to Marshall next season, or throw to receivers other than Marshall, Bowlen said Orton is his man.

"I want Kyle back," Bowlen said. "Orton is a good quarterback. I'd also like to think we might have the opportunity to draft a young quarterback, not necessarily to come in and play right away, but if you have the opportunity to draft somebody, that would be a plus for us."

He wasn't specific, but the assumption is the Broncos would not wait until the later rounds if they chose to draft a quarterback.

Aware McDaniels has received his share of criticism through his first year for making such bold moves as trading away quarterback Jay Cutler, benching Marshall and Scheffler for the season's final game, and allowing defensive coordinator Mike Nolan to leave for a similar job with Miami, Bowlen endorsed his coach's style while adding any mistakes that were made will be corrected with experience.

"I wasn't particularly upset or in angst about the way he handled it," Bowlen said. "He wants to establish his own discipline and his own personality as far as the way he wants to run his club. And I think, as time goes, that will mellow out a little bit. But I think he was trying to make a point or let people know that he wasn't going to be a pushover. And I think a lot of that comes from his age. The fact is he's young, he has to assert that kind of authority. And I agree with him, because he has to gain the respect of the players.

"I'm certainly not disappointed. We would have liked to have won a couple more games and made it to the playoffs, but we didn't. We were 8-8 essentially for the fourth year in a row, but he's got his stamp on the team. I think at this point going forward, players and staff are going to know what to expect."

Near the end of the interview, Bowlen was told about rumors he was out of touch with what was going on with his franchise. Told that didn't seem to be the case, he said: "Are you sure? Something must be wrong. No, I'm very comfortable with what I have regarding our team. You might come back to me nine months from now and ask, 'Are you still comfortable?' But I'm not uncomfortable with what I see as far as the Broncos are concerned."



Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_14350572#ixzz0epBvwrRV

Popps
02-06-2010, 10:34 PM
Interesting read.

Nothing too surprising, though I still can't imagine Marshall suiting up for us next year. Maybe my read on the whole thing is just off... but I think he wants to be the highest paid receiver in the league, and I don't think the Broncos want any part of that.

WolfpackGuy
02-06-2010, 10:43 PM
I'm glad the owner feels the team is in a position to "draft a young QB" if one is available.

Also good to know "mistakes will be corrected with experience" or something or another.

SureShot
02-06-2010, 10:45 PM
Its good to know that Pat is willing to let both Marshall and McDaniels to learn on the job.

Tombstone RJ
02-06-2010, 10:46 PM
I don't remember Bowlen being more involved in football operations than he is now. Does anyone here remember Bowlen being as involved in football operations as he is now? I'm I wrong thinking this?

WolfpackGuy
02-06-2010, 10:49 PM
I don't remember Bowlen being more involved in football operations than he is now. Does anyone here remember Bowlen being as involved in football operations as he is now? I'm I wrong thinking this?

He's always been an "in the background" owner as far as I know.

His "involvement" in the Cutler saga was a surprise to me.

No word on whether he had the right cellphone number though.

Paladin
02-06-2010, 11:02 PM
Stuff about Marshall and a qb is not the important part of the interview. If the lack of a CBA affects the FA and contracts as much as he implies, and the threat of a lockpout in 2011 is a strong as he seems to imply, then it may be that FAs will not get contracts for more tha a year, and not as big of a deal as they would hope. Guarantees may be a bit small. So, there may not be much movement at all.

The BM stuff is pretty neutral, and the QB thing seems to be the sort of thing anyone would say. I'd look for Skelton in the 4th.

KipCorrington25
02-06-2010, 11:15 PM
I'm just going to read between the lines and totally just assume he's saying Orton is a one year stop gap while we develop another QB... God, I wish that was the case.

Ratboy
02-06-2010, 11:24 PM
Nice.

Bowlen needs to pay Marshall!

bpc
02-06-2010, 11:29 PM
I would rather have him come out and say we're keeping Doom.

MMMMMmmmmmm. On the job head coach training. Sounds uninspiring. Basically Bowlen bent over to kiss Josh's ass at the ripe age of 32.

cmhargrove
02-06-2010, 11:36 PM
Would you be a little nervous if you were Brandstater and the team owner mentions he would like to draft a QB?

Maybe he won't be our Tom B. Superstar?

baja
02-07-2010, 12:16 AM
Sounds like Pat foresees a worsening of the economy and resulting in smaller revenues for the Broncos, at least that is what I get reading between the lines.

NFLBRONCO
02-07-2010, 12:28 AM
This is why Champ Doom and BM situations are going to be interesting this offseason. I doubt either player will take 1 yr deals to stay.

yerner
02-07-2010, 12:34 AM
I didn't find that comforting at all.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-07-2010, 01:13 AM
Would you be a little nervous if you were Brandstater and the team owner mentions he would like to draft a QB?

Maybe he won't be our Tom B. Superstar?

Tom B will be so upset, he'll demand a trade for the team having the audacity to mention having someone else play QB for the team.

Oh wait. Not Tom B. Cutler. Cutler does that kind of whiny bitch stuff.

And BPC, Bowlen hardly "kissed McD's ass" as you say... I know you need something to bitch about at all times, but... doesn't that get old?

Pick Six
02-07-2010, 01:17 AM
Bowlen's drunk...or gutless...take your pick. He's definitely not both at the same time...:sunshine:

ZONA
02-07-2010, 02:17 AM
So funny how everybody was thinking it looked like BM would be gone. Everybody buying the media BS hype stories about this crap and the final week issue being totally over blown. BM is going to be a Bronco next year people. Live with it and love it.

And Popps, why the hell do you think BM thinks he is going to be the highest paid WR in the league? What merit do you have for thinking that way. The dude has been an AllPro for the last 2 years and way below standard pay for a player like that and now you think he wants the most money of any WR? I find that hard to swallow. I think BM would be very happy with a top 10 WR contract.

Killericon
02-07-2010, 02:38 AM
I don't think this Marshall thing will blow over...Then again, I was SURE Cutlergate was entirely in the minds of the fans, and that Josh and Jay had moved on, and I was dead wrong, so what do I know?

Bronco Rob
02-07-2010, 05:15 AM
For the first time in his 26-year reign as Broncos owner, Bowlen has gone through four consecutive seasons without a playoff experience.

"Thanks for reminding me," Bowlen said.


How many team owners can say that........

elsid13
02-07-2010, 05:49 AM
So this is what I learned from that interview.

1. McDaniels has complete control of personnel issue.
2. That Orton will get a single year deal, and look for us to draft a QB earlier
3. That economy and CBA uncertainty means no big name FA.

peacepipe
02-07-2010, 06:37 AM
So this is what I learned from that interview.

1. McDaniels has complete control of personnel issue.
2. That Orton will get a single year deal, and look for us to draft a QB earlier
3. That economy and CBA uncertainty means no big name FA.

Games are still selling out as a they did before & are still getting the same billions in TV contracts as they did before. Nothing has really changed with regards to the money they are pulling in. This is all CBA related.

elsid13
02-07-2010, 06:45 AM
Games are still selling out as a they did before & are still getting the same billions in TV contracts as they did before. Nothing has really changed with regards to the money they are pulling in. This is all CBA related.

Bowlen, like most owners doesn't make all his monies from Football Operations. If outside interest are performing poorly, that will/might effect Bowlen ability to put big signing bonuses.

LRtagger
02-07-2010, 06:46 AM
I'm not sure I understand....we may not be able to sign some of our best players because of the potential for a lockout in 2011, but he thinks we should draft a QB early in 2010 and have Orton play over him for the year?

If we sign a QB to a 4 year deal out of the draft, that is essentially two years of said contract wasted. I haven't read much into the lockout, but what would it entail? Would coaches be able to interact/practice with players in 2011? I assume there will still be a draft? If a player will be able to interact with coaches and deal with football operations, it may be a better idea to draft a QB in 2011. Plus I hate the QB prospects in this draft.

gtown
02-07-2010, 06:52 AM
Please please please keep Marshall!! We are never gonna get fair value for him through a trade. And draft a QB, but not in the first two rounds. If Tebow is there in the 3rd or 4th, take a flier on him, if we like Skelton or whoever, grab them up. I read between the lines and can assume Simms is gone!!

ayjackson
02-07-2010, 07:54 AM
I get the sense everybody's just saying the right thing.

UboBronco
02-07-2010, 07:57 AM
I think Bowlen will tell McDaniels to draft his fellow Oklahoma alum, Sam Bradford, if the opportunity presents the team. Just my hunch.

rastaman
02-07-2010, 08:40 AM
Bowlen, like most owners doesn't make all his monies from Football Operations. If outside interest are performing poorly, that will/might effect Bowlen ability to put big signing bonuses.

Outside interests such as? It would appear that Bowlen receives the majority of his money from corporate interest i.e. Invesco Field, sold out stadiums-luxury boxes, TV and Cable revenue, and the sell of Bronco merchandise.

elsid13
02-07-2010, 08:46 AM
Outside interests such as? It would appear that Bowlen receives the majority of his money from corporate interest i.e. Invesco Field, sold out stadiums-luxury boxes, TV and Cable revenue, and the sell of Bronco merchandise.

Most of Bowlen's wealth comes from real estate holding and Canadian oil business.

Rohirrim
02-07-2010, 08:57 AM
I hope they pick up Sean Canfield in the fourth.

rastaman
02-07-2010, 09:02 AM
He's always been an "in the background" owner as far as I know.

His "involvement" in the Cutler saga was a surprise to me.

No word on whether he had the right cellphone number though.

I have the feeling had Bowlen had a chance to do over the Cutler vs McD spat, he would have intervene immediately versus waiting one month to get involved.

Until Denver can find another QB to be the face of the franchise and should Cutler only avg 14-16 Interceptions and becomes an elite QB, while Denver's QB's continue to flounder; Bowlen will always regret letting Cutler go.

We will see if Bowlen has learned his lesson on whether he's willing to make Marshall a top 5 paid WR in the league or use the NE philosophy of holding back payroll by signing team first players.

In the back of Bowlen's mind he has reservations about trading known Pro Talent for high risk 1st round draft picks who's only guarantee is that they will demand big rookie signing bonuses and contracts; but could have bust or mediocrity as the final outcome 2-4 years down the road.

So Bowlen is at the cross roads of wanting to draft a QB early and how to sign both Doom and Marshall to long term top 5 salaries; or does Bowlen let Doom and Bmarsh walk for high draft picks of the likes of Moreno and Ayers.

Kinda Sucks to be Pat Bowlen right now. Bowlen finds himself in the quandry of financial risk with signing his Pro Bowl players, just like the Bronco Pro Bowl players finds themself in with injury risk while waiting to cash in on the longterm financial security NFL contract.

bowtown
02-07-2010, 09:10 AM
.

Hamrob
02-07-2010, 09:21 AM
Everybody is saying the right things. Marshall is saying he wants to be with the Broncos, McDaniels is saying he's o.k. with that idea and the Owner is saying he wants Marshall Back.

I'm calling Bull****!

Although, this is all very smart. For Marshall to get the contract he wants, he has to be traded for top compensation...a 1 and a 3. Why? Because he wants to be paid like he's worth a 1 and a 3 or more. If some teams gives away a 2nd for Marshall...do you think they'll pay him like a top 5 WR? No.

For the Broncos to get top payment for Marshall, they need teams to believe he's worth paying the piper for. How do you do that? You make Marshall seem like he's matured and that you really don't want to trade him. Then...boom...you trade him!

He might be back....but, I'm not holding my breath!

Hamrob
02-07-2010, 09:29 AM
IMO. There's only one guy (QB) in this draft that McD wants...Jimmy Clauson. If he falls to us or if we trade BM to the Browns for swapping first round picks and pick up a 2nd rounder. Then we could grap him at #7.

Clauson has that Weis connection...and therefore part of the family. He's got a nice arm and is smart. He's probably the type of kid McD would want to build around. He's got the pedigree to be a great NFL QB.

Bradford might be the next Montana, Clauson might be the next Aikman...outside of those two...you're really stretching...so, why even bother to take a guy like McCoy...not going to be better than Orton in my opinion.

If they could get Clauson...that's their target...they'll pull the trigger.

Dedhed
02-07-2010, 09:37 AM
I get the sense everybody's just saying the right thing.I get that sense too, particularly about the CBA and a potential lockout.

I don't think there's any way they don't get a deal done. Right now we're just in a cycle of rhetoric where everyone is saying that a stoppage is likely in order to make the other side like they aren't going to budge.

They'll all budge. If there's a stoppage in the NFL, both the owners and the NFLPA are staffed entirely with idiots.

Installing a rookie cap is going to make a lot of owners feel better, and I can't see the PA being opposed to that. How can more money for proven players and less wasted money for owners be a bad thing?

We're just in the stages of whistling Dixie and smoke blowing right now. Nothing more.

Dedhed
02-07-2010, 09:38 AM
I hope they pick up Sean Canfield in the fourth.

Skelton would be a much better pick up in the fourth.

Hamrob
02-07-2010, 09:48 AM
Looks like I'm not the only one thinking this:

Bowlen would like to keep Marshall
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on February 7, 2010 8:44 AM ET

Brandon Marshall is willing to stay in Denver, and owner Pat Bowlen is willing to keep him. Now it's Josh McDaniels' move.

In comments Saturday to Mike Klis of the Denver Post, Bowlen believes Marshall is going through a "maturing process."

"Personally, I saw change in his personality and approach to things [this past season]. He didn't have the same sort of attitude and anxiety that he's had," Bowlen said. "I personally would like to see him stay. And there's still a good possibility that could happen."

Marshall said recently he took some things too personally during the 2009 campaign, and vowed to go in whatever direction the Broncos choose this offseason.

Conventional wisdom says McDaniels wants Marshall out, and the receiver may only be saying the right things now to help his trade value. (A good idea.) But McDaniels strikes us as a pragmatist.

McD knows how valuable Marshall is to the team's offense, and he's not going to give him up for 50 cents on the dollar. The recent comments by Marshall and Bowlen give the head coach greater flexibility to drive a hard bargain.

Meck77
02-07-2010, 09:52 AM
Outside interests such as? It would appear that Bowlen receives the majority of his money from corporate interest i.e. Invesco Field, sold out stadiums-luxury boxes, TV and Cable revenue, and the sell of Bronco merchandise.

Who says the luxury boxes are sold out? Club level certainly is not.

rastaman
02-07-2010, 10:00 AM
Another key to the 2010 draft is whether McD and the GM is able to capitalize and spot small school Gems who go un-noticed by all the draft guru's. Many times these athletes from small schools have always been doubted talent wise and as a result, they are much hungrier, have something prove, play with a chip on their shoulders, and want to prove everyone WRONG! In McD's case, if you're trying to rebuild a franchise in your own image, you can't have enough players who are talented, team players, and who will pull up all stops just to make an NFL roster. These players are more than likely to buy into McD's "Rah-Rah" coaching mentality. So from the 2nd round pick to the 7th round pick, having a GM on hand that can spot, evaluate, develop and draft premim talant from small schools not only saves your franchise money, but it can also rebuild and stack your team players.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-07-2010, 10:03 AM
Small school talent: Marc Mariani, WR/KR, Montana. Cannot get enough of this guy, and I REAAAAAAAAAAAAALLY want him to be a Bronco.

oubronco
02-07-2010, 10:30 AM
"I wasn't particularly upset or in angst about the way he handled it," Bowlen said. "He wants to establish his own discipline and his own personality as far as the way he wants to run his club. And I think, as time goes, that will mellow out a little bit. But I think he was trying to make a point or let people know that he wasn't going to be a pushover. And I think a lot of that comes from his age. The fact is he's young, he has to assert that kind of authority. And I agree with him, because he has to gain the respect of the players.


BS McD is a Belichick clone he even try's to dress like him

uplink
02-07-2010, 10:40 AM
Bowlen didn't really give McD a ringing endorsement and didn't think he rose above being a 'young coach' IMO. I don't think McD is going to be happy with the Bowlen interview, I wouldn't if I were in his place.

Bowlen would have said something like 'he is a young guy but you won't have known it by the way he handled the team', if he was happy. But he didn't, McD is on the hot seat IMO.

oubronco
02-07-2010, 10:43 AM
McD better take heed Bowlen doesn't speakout very often

rastaman
02-07-2010, 10:55 AM
McD better take heed Bowlen doesn't speakout very often

Rep! McD can't assume nor get comfortable! He's not remembered for his 6-0 start.....but McD is remembered for his 2-8 melt down by the owner, the fans and the rest of the league. Not even Shanahan went 2-8 in any of his 14 seasons in Denver! And that fact weighs on Bowlen's mind. McD in 2010 should he go 2-8, 3-7, or 4-6 will more than likely be his last season as HC of the Denver Broncos. McD in 2010 can ill-afford to have the player--coach drama and polarization that transpired in 2009 and have a 2nd half melt down as well.

Rohirrim
02-07-2010, 10:57 AM
Skelton would be a much better pick up in the fourth.

I've never watched Skelton in a game. I've seen a few Canfield games. He's very cool in the pocket and very accurate. Reminds me of Tom Brady.

broncos-rock
02-07-2010, 10:57 AM
I think Bowlen will tell McDaniels to draft his fellow Oklahoma alum, Sam Bradford, if the opportunity presents the team. Just my hunch.

For me the most important part of that article was that they are going to take a qb early. I could see them taking Bradford or Clausen. I thought for sure it was going to be someone in the later rounds like Pike or LeFlevor(sp). I assumed that qbs were to Mcdaniels like rbs were to Shanny. Its going to be a fun draft though thats for sure!

Paladin
02-07-2010, 10:59 AM
Gee, I didn't know there were so many people who "know" what Bowlen or MvD are thinking.....

Sometimes what they say is what they really, really believe......

maher_tyler
02-07-2010, 10:59 AM
I think Bowlen will tell McDaniels to draft his fellow Oklahoma alum, Sam Bradford, if the opportunity presents the team. Just my hunch.

I wouldn't be totally against that...we have other holes to fill but i'd feel a lot better about our QB situation.

Hogan11
02-07-2010, 11:17 AM
I didn't find that comforting at all.

and nobody should, especially after this quote:

"I'd like to see Brandon stay," Bowlen said. "Now, if the head coach sits down and says no, I want to trade him, or I've got a deal that's going to be beneficial to the club, I don't think I'm going to override him.


Pure and simple, it's in McD's hands and last time I looked, these guys were far from being on the same page.

I realize most want him to stay but the stretches lately to find some kinda hope for that have been extreme to say the least.

Beantown Bronco
02-07-2010, 11:20 AM
I love how people are now choosing to believe what they read pre-draft. Same thing every year. It's all a smokescreen.

rastaman
02-07-2010, 11:28 AM
I love how people are now choosing to believe what they read pre-draft. Same thing every year. It's all a smokescreen.

What isn't smoke screen is the Broncos lack of talent and inconsistencies at the QB position. Its better to address this weakness in 2010 vs waiting 2 or 4 years down the road and still be faced with the same dilemma.

tsiguy96
02-07-2010, 11:30 AM
What isn't smoke screen is the Broncos lack of talent and inconsistencies at the QB position. Its better to address this weakness in 2010 vs waiting 2 or 4 years down the road and still be faced with the same dilemma.

im pretty sure mcdaniels has a better grasp on the broncos QB position than you do :thumbs:

Requiem
02-07-2010, 11:47 AM
This isn't the year to belooking for a QB.

gunns
02-07-2010, 11:48 AM
Oh please don't let us draft a QB in the first round, unless we get another 1st rounder.

elsid13
02-07-2010, 11:52 AM
This isn't the year to belooking for a QB.

No ****. Like last years was the year to pick interior offense line, and this one isn't

Requiem
02-07-2010, 11:56 AM
No ****. Like last years was the year to pick interior offense line, and this one isn't

Canfield and LeFevour as mid-round options, but other than that, I'm not even that interested. As much as people are down on Snead, I think if he's available in the third or fourth, he is worth the look because he has the size and tools to develop into a decent player, IMHO. No to Clausen or Bradford.

rastaman
02-07-2010, 12:02 PM
im pretty sure mcdaniels has a better grasp on the broncos QB position than you do :thumbs:

Naw.....you just think McDaniel's is PRETTY! Meanwhile the two of you aren't SURE of anything. Isn't that right HOMER! LOL

elsid13
02-07-2010, 12:03 PM
Canfield and LeFevour as mid-round options, but other than that, I'm not even that interested. As much as people are down on Snead, I think if he's available in the third or fourth, he is worth the look because he has the size and tools to develop into a decent player, IMHO. No to Clausen or Bradford.

I was high on Canfield, til his senior bowl appearance. When you skip balls when throwing outside the numbers without pressure, you're going to struggle in the NFL. LeFevours remind me of Seneca Wallace, and project more of back-up then a starter. Snead, is a mix of Boller with BVP social life skills. The rest are blah. Skelton project the best if light turn on for him and a team give him time to develop.

Rather wait for next year when you could have Locker, Luck, Mallett, Ponder, Gabbert, Foles in the draft.

rastaman
02-07-2010, 12:11 PM
This isn't the year to belooking for a QB.

Meh! I don't know, is there another Joe Flacco out there in the 2010 draft as far as QB prospects go?

Requiem
02-07-2010, 12:13 PM
Not really. Unless you think Skelton can be that guy, and I don't know if he is. Thing is, all his deficiencies (like footwork) are correctable. I just hate this QB class, especially when next years is so promising. I'm cool with getting a mid-round guy this year, but not early -- and then hopefully finding our guy next year.

HEAV
02-07-2010, 12:17 PM
As for who will throw to Marshall next season, or throw to receivers other than Marshall, Bowlen said Orton is his man.


"I want Kyle back," Bowlen said. "Orton is a good quarterback. I'd also like to think we might have the opportunity to draft a young quarterback, not necessarily to come in and play right away, but if you have the opportunity to draft somebody, that would be a plus for us."

DenverBrit
02-07-2010, 12:23 PM
I have the feeling had Bowlen had a chance to do over the Cutler vs McD spat, he would have intervene immediately versus waiting one month to get involved.

Nah, Bowlen never liked Cutler, didn't want to give him a fat contract and was happy to see him go.

Until Denver can find another QB to be the face of the franchise and should Cutler only avg 14-16 Interceptions and becomes an elite QB, while Denver's QB's continue to flounder; Bowlen will always regret letting Cutler go.

Yeah, he told me that was a risk, but Orton doesn't raid his liquor locker like Jay did, so all's well for now..

We will see if Bowlen has learned his lesson on whether he's willing to make Marshall a top 5 paid WR in the league or use the NE philosophy of holding back payroll by signing team first players.

Bowlen said he doesn't want any of the NE philosophy rubbing off on the Broncos. He'd have to enlarge the SB trophy cabinet and that would cut into his Scotch allowance.

In the back of Bowlen's mind he has reservations about trading known Pro Talent for high risk 1st round draft picks who's only guarantee is that they will demand big rookie signing bonuses and contracts; but could have bust or mediocrity as the final outcome 2-4 years down the road.

How did you get in there??

So Bowlen is at the cross roads of wanting to draft a QB early and how to sign both Doom and Marshall to long term top 5 salaries; or does Bowlen let Doom and Bmarsh walk for high draft picks of the likes of Moreno and Ayers.

Hurry and make his mind up for him, it's obvious he can't think and drink!

Kinda Sucks to be Pat Bowlen right now. Bowlen finds himself in the quandry of financial risk with signing his Pro Bowl players, just like the Bronco Pro Bowl players finds themself in with injury risk while waiting to cash in on the longterm financial security NFL contract.

Yeah, who would want to be Pat Bowlen and own the Broncos, a distillery and your unwavering support?


So who do you like in the SB? ;D

rastaman
02-07-2010, 12:38 PM
Not really. Unless you think Skelton can be that guy, and I don't know if he is. Thing is, all his deficiencies (like footwork) are correctable. I just hate this QB class, especially when next years is so promising. I'm cool with getting a mid-round guy this year, but not early -- and then hopefully finding our guy next year.

What I'm thinking about is if you go back to 2008 Joe Flacco wasn't exactly a house hold name and the favorite can't miss with the 2008 draft class. After all Flacco was drafted from the small school of Delaware. McD maynot have the luxury nor time to wait for the ideal year where the draft has allot of great/good QB's to draft. The Broncos and McD's time to upgrade the QB position maybe in 2010.

bowtown
02-07-2010, 12:38 PM
So who do you like in the SB? ;D

Rasta will probably say he wants he Saints to win, but deep down he is conflicted because he doesn't really like jazz. We know that for certain. Also, this morning he woke up and found himself questioning how hard he could root for the Saints today when he knew in his heart that if he ever met Peyton Manning, they would probably become really good friends, and Peyton would eventually be able to see into Rastas soul and see that he had betrayed him in the past. These are just the facts.

rastaman
02-07-2010, 12:41 PM
So who do you like in the SB? ;D

Peyton "Place" Manning and his merry band of Colts. Manning will shred the secondary of the Saints. Colts 33 the Who Dat Saints 21.

Elway777
02-07-2010, 12:43 PM
Sam Bradford, Dan Williams, Rolando McClain or Dez Bryant in the first round.

DenverBrit
02-07-2010, 12:51 PM
Peyton "Place" Manning and his merry band of Colts. Manning will shred the secondary of the Saints. Colts 33 the Who Dat Saints 21.

Have you told BF7 the Colts will cover?

Oh, wait, it's not a pre-season game, never mind. ;D

rastaman
02-07-2010, 12:54 PM
Rasta will probably say he wants he Saints to win, but deep down he is conflicted because he doesn't really like jazz. We know that for certain. Also, this morning he woke up and found himself questioning how hard he could root for the Saints today when he knew in his heart that if he ever met Peyton Manning, they would probably become really good friends, and Peyton would eventually be able to see into Rastas soul and see that he had betrayed him in the past. These are just the facts.

Bow-Wow.....I like smooth jazz but don't have any interest in New Orleans type jazz sound b/c it sounds like mass chaos of infused instruments. As far as Peyton Manning is concerned, he's a product of the rules changes in the NFL where the Offense has been given the advantages over the Defenses to give the fans more scoring and to protect the QB's. Had Peyton been playing in the 70's, 80's and early 90's he wouldn't be putting up the stats he is today.

By the way.....you suck at Psychoanalysis. Don't quit your day job.

baja
02-07-2010, 02:13 PM
After reading the article I think Bowlen should take a vow of silence.

epicSocialism4tw
02-07-2010, 03:23 PM
I'm not sure I understand....we may not be able to sign some of our best players because of the potential for a lockout in 2011, but he thinks we should draft a QB early in 2010 and have Orton play over him for the year?

If we sign a QB to a 4 year deal out of the draft, that is essentially two years of said contract wasted. I haven't read much into the lockout, but what would it entail? Would coaches be able to interact/practice with players in 2011? I assume there will still be a draft? If a player will be able to interact with coaches and deal with football operations, it may be a better idea to draft a QB in 2011. Plus I hate the QB prospects in this draft.

I can just about guarantee that McD likes Bradford.

Hulamau
02-07-2010, 03:50 PM
I would rather have him come out and say we're keeping Doom.

MMMMMmmmmmm. On the job head coach training. Sounds uninspiring. Basically Bowlen bent over to kiss Josh's ass at the ripe age of 32.

Man, Chris what are you smoking? Come out of the weeds man, you've wandered too far down the rabbit hole if that is what you got out of that interview!

Dedhed
02-07-2010, 04:01 PM
I've never watched Skelton in a game. I've seen a few Canfield games. He's very cool in the pocket and very accurate. Reminds me of Tom Brady.

I agree with you on Canfield, I just think he's a journeyman when it comes to talent. Skelton is raw, but has a ton of upside.

For a 4th round pick, I think going with upside is better than taking another Brandstater type of talent.

I also think that Skelton's perfect for McDs offense. He reminds me of a 3-way cross between Rivers, Rothlisberger, and Marino. Huge frame, but can still move, a little awkward in his delivery, but gets the ball out amazing quick and plenty of arm.

bronco militia
02-07-2010, 04:02 PM
After reading the article I think Bowlen should take a vow of silence.

I think it's a warning...

do things your way while missing the playoffs again and you are fired.

NFLBRONCO
02-07-2010, 04:30 PM
I think it's a warning...

do things your way while missing the playoffs again and you are fired.

Highly doubt Bowlen fires Josh before 2012 offseason. He will not want 3 HC salaries to pay for.

bombay
02-07-2010, 05:05 PM
Love the QB from Central Michigan.

I want the Broncos to draft him, whatever kind of maneuvering it takes - maybe trade down to get an extra 2nd rounder and take him there.

UberBroncoMan
02-07-2010, 05:15 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing us get Dan LeFevour at all.

He reminds me of Cutler (from a physical skill set)... and you can hate on Cutler all you want but he's very gifted physically... he just makes a lot of retarded decisions.

Toss Simms, move Brandstater to backup and have LeFavour as our QB of the future.

bombay
02-07-2010, 05:26 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing us get Dan LeFevour at all.

He reminds me of Cutler (from a physical skill set)... and you can hate on Cutler all you want but he's very gifted physically... he just makes a lot of retarded decisions.

Toss Simms, move Brandstater to backup and have LeFavour as our QB of the future.


Bingo. Physically gifted and without the attitude issues.

tsiguy96
02-07-2010, 06:29 PM
Bingo. Physically gifted and without the attitude issues.

definitely, that guy is a true leader. ive been calling for him for awhile hes awesome.

baja
02-07-2010, 06:37 PM
definitely, that guy is a true leader. ive been calling for him for awhile hes awesome.

got any vids on him?

tsiguy96
02-07-2010, 06:40 PM
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the gmac bowl was him absolutely on his mark, had to be one of the top 5 games of the year. went to OT and was awesome.

Tombstone RJ
02-07-2010, 07:45 PM
Here's my point about this Bowlen article: I don't ever remember Pat Bowlen being this involved in football operations aka players on the roster. If Bowlen didn' wanna keep McD and if he didn't think he could win with McD, Bowlen would not be involved with football decisions. He'd let McD hang himself and be gone in one more year. But Bowlen isn't doing that. He's not sitting back this offseason and playing golf the entire time while Shanny makes all the decisions. He's involved and he's supportive of McD.

That tells me Bowlen cares and wants to see McD succeed.

broncofan7
02-07-2010, 08:49 PM
Near the end of the interview, Bowlen was told about rumors he was out of touch with what was going on with his franchise. Told that didn't seem to be the case, he said: "Are you sure? Something must be wrong. No, I'm very comfortable with what I have regarding our team. You might come back to me nine months from now and ask, 'Are you still comfortable?' But I'm not uncomfortable with what I see as far as the Broncos are concerned

Translation: PLAYOFFS OR ELSE McGenius!!! just like I have been writing...2010 is a MAKE or BREAK year for McDaniels

broncofan7
02-07-2010, 08:56 PM
As for who will throw to Marshall next season, or throw to receivers other than Marshall, Bowlen said Orton is his man.


"I want Kyle back," Bowlen said. "Orton is a good quarterback. I'd also like to think we might have the opportunity to draft a young quarterback, not necessarily to come in and play right away, but if you have the opportunity to draft somebody, that would be a plus for us."

you cannot seriously take this as a vote of confidence for Orton going forward ...no where in this article did Bowlen state that he had confidence that Orton could be our Franchise guy--the guy to lead us to another championship....in fact--TO THE CONTRARY--he mentions drafting a young QB to groom to be precisely that type of Franchise guy...

Fusionfrontman
02-07-2010, 09:18 PM
Why do people think Branstarter will be anything better than BVP?
I'm down for Skelton in the 4-5th but I'm nervous that your paying him for 2 years NOT to play if there is a lockout.

Broncoman13
02-07-2010, 09:39 PM
I think it's funny people comparing Cutler to LeFevour. Cutler has a cannon, LeFevour's arm strength is maybe...MAYBE as good as Kyle Orton's. Probably somewhere between Chad Pennington and Kyle Orton. He does very well with his feet and can make a lot of plays scrambling, but I'm not sure McD wants his QBs doing that...

Paladin
02-07-2010, 10:56 PM
Kyle Bowler could throw the ball 70 yards while on his knees. To a point, arm strength is overrated......

Kaylore
02-07-2010, 11:02 PM
Why do people think Branstarter will be anything better than BVP?
Because he's actually a quarterback other than a second string linebacker in denial.

BroncoMan4ever
02-08-2010, 12:40 AM
I don't remember Bowlen being more involved in football operations than he is now. Does anyone here remember Bowlen being as involved in football operations as he is now? I'm I wrong thinking this?

i honestly think the last time if ever that he has been this involved aside from signing checks, was probably during the Wade Phillips 2 years and maybe the 1st season of Shanahan until he saw that Mike knew what he was doing and then he went back behind the scenes.

Beantown Bronco
02-08-2010, 07:12 AM
Highly doubt Bowlen fires Josh before 2012 offseason. He will not want 3 HC salaries to pay for.

Newsflash: Shanny was hired by the Skins for $7 mil/season. Bowlen is no longer paying him.

jhns
02-08-2010, 07:21 AM
I agree Bowlen. I want Marshall back and a new QB. You are the one with the money to make this happen though, so get on it.

Bigdawg26
02-08-2010, 07:23 AM
Yeah I'll got with Bowlen I want to keep Marshall if he matures that's a big IF. I would really like another QB as well but please no TEBOW!

CEH
02-08-2010, 07:44 AM
Newsflash: Shanny was hired by the Skins for $7 mil/season. Bowlen is no longer paying him.

From the Denver Post:

Bowlen will be relieved of roughly $7 million in expenses today when the Washington Redskins announce Mike Shanahan as their new coach. Shanahan, who was the Broncos' head coach from 1995 until he was fired after the 2008 season, completed a five-year deal Tuesday evening with the Redskins, according to two sources familiar with the negotiations.

Shanahan will receive approximately the same average guaranteed salary $7 million a season he had during his final contract with the Broncos. He still had three years remaining on his deal when he was fired nearly a year ago.

The Broncos will still owe Shanahan approximately $3.5 million per year in 2010 and 2011 to essentially have him coach the Redskins. Then again, Bowlen will save roughly $3.5 million each of the next two years now that their former coach is no longer unemployed.

cousinal11
02-08-2010, 07:47 AM
Give me Skelton. Do it. Do it.

go_broncos
02-08-2010, 07:56 AM
Finally bowlen realizes that we can't win games with average QB's like Griese, Orton etc.
We need to draft a QB.I am jealous when i see QB's like manning,brady,brees play with other teams.

TonyR
02-08-2010, 08:34 AM
The Broncos will still owe Shanahan approximately $3.5 million per year in 2010 and 2011 to essentially have him coach the Redskins. Then again, Bowlen will save roughly $3.5 million each of the next two years now that their former coach is no longer unemployed.

Yup, and I never have fully understood exactly how this works. I've never seen/heard a good explanation for this.

Bigdawg26
02-08-2010, 08:41 AM
Yeah well if you look at the play off teams they all have Franchise QB's espically in the AFC and NFC championships. We need a QB that we can depend on for more than 30 screens a game.

Beantown Bronco
02-08-2010, 08:42 AM
Yup, and I never have fully understood exactly how this works. I've never seen/heard a good explanation for this.

If the Post is correct in their figures, then the only thing I can think of is that his Redskins contract must look something like this:

2010: $3.5 mil
2011: $3.5 mil
2012: $9.667 mil
2013: $9.667 mil
2014: $9.667 mil

Beantown Bronco
02-08-2010, 08:44 AM
Yeah well if you look at the play off teams they all have Franchise QB's espically in the AFC and NFC championships. We need a QB that we can depend on for more than 30 screens a game.

To be honest, outside of two or three throws by Brees last night, the NO game plan was right in Orton's wheelhouse. Lots of dump offs, screens and 6-9 yard WR routes with YAC.

go_broncos
02-08-2010, 09:00 AM
To be honest, outside of two or three throws by Brees last night, the NO game plan was right in Orton's wheelhouse. Lots of dump offs, screens and 6-9 yard WR routes with YAC.

The difference is that teams respect brees and his ability to throw the ball downfield.

Bowlen recognizes that a team needs a QB to compete for a SB every year.

I am glad he is telling what he has in his mind..

elsid13
02-08-2010, 09:01 AM
To be honest, outside of two or three throws by Brees last night, the NO game plan was right in Orton's wheelhouse. Lots of dump offs, screens and 6-9 yard WR routes with YAC.

Yes and no. The saints adjust to Coyer defense, but most of the season they have been targeting the WR and TE on the seams routes. They attempted to attack the Colts that way, but the Colts kept there Safeties deep to prevent that.

bronco militia
02-08-2010, 09:03 AM
The difference is that teams respect brees and his ability to throw the ball downfield.

..

IMO, the difference was both teams OL. They both kept their QB's upright

TonyR
02-08-2010, 09:05 AM
...then the only thing I can think of is that his Redskins contract must look something like this:

2010: $3.5 mil
2011: $3.5 mil
2012: $9.667 mil
2013: $9.667 mil
2014: $9.667 mil

That makes sense. Snyder sticking it to Bowlen pretty good there. What a d*ck.

elsid13
02-08-2010, 09:06 AM
I think it's funny people comparing Cutler to LeFevour. Cutler has a cannon, LeFevour's arm strength is maybe...MAYBE as good as Kyle Orton's. Probably somewhere between Chad Pennington and Kyle Orton. He does very well with his feet and can make a lot of plays scrambling, but I'm not sure McD wants his QBs doing that...

Lefevours arm strength isn't as bad as Pennington, it more in the SOB/Plummer/Brees range. You are right, he doesn't have Cutler physical abilities. He has shown the ability to get the ball deep (Mich State game) and outside the numbers (but he needs to be right on with his timing). He would work real well in Shanahan's style WCO, not what McDaniels is running, were his mobility would let him get outside the pocket on the rollout/PA to make plays.

cmhargrove
02-08-2010, 09:11 AM
Why do people think Branstarter will be anything better than BVP?
I'm down for Skelton in the 4-5th but I'm nervous that your paying him for 2 years NOT to play if there is a lockout.

Seriously? You watched Brandstater in the preseason and think he was no better than BVP?

Brandstater may only have the impact of BVP (might never get a real chance) but I saw a guy that can definitely become a very successful pocket QB (can make all the throws, work the pocket). BVP was never, ever, going to become a pocket passing "field general" type. I loved his competitiveness, but he was never destined to be an NFL QB. Brandstater has an honest shot if he gets the chance.

Gob
02-08-2010, 09:14 AM
IMO, the difference was both teams OL. They both kept their QB's upright

Personally I give both qb's alot of credit for that all season long. They have good pocket awareness, move well, make decisions quickly, get rid of the ball, and punish blitzes with big plays. I think if lesser qb's were back there the sacks would have been mounting up.

go_broncos
02-08-2010, 09:20 AM
IMO, the difference was both teams OL. They both kept their QB's upright

OL is important..but, the entire team(including coaching staff) will benefit if we have a good QB.

It is sad that we couldn't get a good QB since Elway retired.

jhns
02-08-2010, 09:24 AM
Personally I give both qb's alot of credit for that all season long. They have good pocket awareness, move well, make decisions quickly, get rid of the ball, and punish blitzes with big plays. I think if lesser qb's were back there the sacks would have been mounting up.

This. The QB is just as important to his protection as the o-line is. QBs have to manipulate the pocket and get rid of the ball quickly when being blitzed. It is the reason o-line play changes so dramatically with every QB change.

rastaman
02-08-2010, 09:57 AM
To be honest, outside of two or three throws by Brees last night, the NO game plan was right in Orton's wheelhouse. Lots of dump offs, screens and 6-9 yard WR routes with YAC.

The only problem I see with your analysis the Colts had to respect Brees accuracy with the deep and intermediate passes. Two areas Orton has shown inconsistencies. Teams would have played Orton differently by daring him to beat them with the deep and intermediate passes. The Colts gave up the dumps offs, screen passes etc short passing game against Brees to stop his ability to hurt the Colts with the deep/intermediate passes.

Kaylore
02-08-2010, 10:03 AM
Lefevours arm strength isn't as bad as Pennington, it more in the SOB/Plummer/Brees range. You are right, he doesn't have Cutler physical abilities. He has shown the ability to get the ball deep (Mich State game) and outside the numbers (but he needs to be right on with his timing). He would work real well in Shanahan's style WCO, not what McDaniels is running, were his mobility would let him get outside the pocket on the rollout/PA to make plays.

This is exactly what I was thinking. He's more a west coast guy and I'm not that thrilled with him at all.

Tombstone RJ
02-08-2010, 11:07 AM
Bowlen telling the media he wants to draft another QB is better than Bowlen telling McD he wants to draft another QB. Basically, we are drafting another QB and McD better get it right.

Bowlen has given McD a mandate to draft a QB and I bet his focus in this draft will be which QB to take...

If fact, we should just go ahead and start a thread about which QB the Broncos are gonna draft...

bronco militia
02-08-2010, 11:11 AM
Bowlen telling the media he wants to draft another QB is better than Bowlen telling McD he wants to draft another QB. Basically, we are drafting another QB and McD better get it right.

Bowlen has given McD a mandate to draft a QB and I bet his focus in this draft will be which QB to take...

If fact, we should just go ahead and start a thread about which QB the Broncos are gonna draft...

I vote tombstone for the next Broncos GM!!!

PRBronco
02-08-2010, 11:16 AM
Bowlen telling the media he wants to draft another QB is better than Bowlen telling McD he wants to draft another QB. Basically, we are drafting another QB and McD better get it right.

Bowlen has given McD a mandate to draft a QB and I bet his focus in this draft will be which QB to take...

If fact, we should just go ahead and start a thread about which QB the Broncos are gonna draft...

I think you should! I'm not really a fan of any of the QBs in this draft, I wanna hear some discussion.

epicSocialism4tw
02-08-2010, 11:45 AM
I think you should! I'm not really a fan of any of the QBs in this draft, I wanna hear some discussion.

I think that Sam Bradford will be gone by the time the Broncos draft, but Clausen could be there.

Bradford is legit. He's very, very good. In our modern "what have you done for me lately" sports world, Bradford has been somewhat forgotten. All that people remember about him is that he had a bum shoulder. However, if he gets into the combine and shows that that shoulder is healed, I believe that he'll be the first player taken in the draft. There's just too much upside there and he has already shown so much.

I dont know about Clausen. I didn't watch a single Notre Dame game this year. Maybe someone who is familiar with him can give a report on Clausen.

montrose
02-08-2010, 11:53 AM
I think this sinches it for BMarsh being back next year. While the CBA's the biggest reason, IMO, now the owner's gone on record he wants the guy back. Add in that BMarsh has been working the PR campaign to come back and even McD's recent interviews have implied BMarsh would be back - and I just don't see the Broncos dumping him (and given the CBA, I do think the lack of value they'd receive back would be dumping him).

TonyR
02-08-2010, 11:59 AM
Add in that BMarsh has been working the PR campaign to come back...

Yup, Marshall's agent may have explained to him that without a CBA he isn't going anywhere so he better play nice.

gtown
02-08-2010, 12:23 PM
Bowlen telling the media he wants to draft another QB is better than Bowlen telling McD he wants to draft another QB. Basically, we are drafting another QB and McD better get it right.

I agree. That was pretty much a mandate and with us inquiring about McNabb, it looks like this will become the focus of the offseason (again).

Unfortunately, trading for McNabb or moving up to grab Claussen or Bradford is gonna take multiple picks, leading us to ignore elite talent on the lines. The Cutler trade is starting to look like crap.

TotallyScrewed
02-08-2010, 12:25 PM
Tom B will be so upset, he'll demand a trade for the team having the audacity to mention having someone else play QB for the team.

Oh wait. Not Tom B. Cutler. Cutler does that kind of whiny b**** stuff.

And BPC, Bowlen hardly "kissed McD's ass" as you say... I know you need something to b**** about at all times, but... doesn't that get old?

Speaking of bitching all the time...

BroncoMan4ever
02-08-2010, 03:10 PM
I think that Sam Bradford will be gone by the time the Broncos draft, but Clausen could be there.

Bradford is legit. He's very, very good. In our modern "what have you done for me lately" sports world, Bradford has been somewhat forgotten. All that people remember about him is that he had a bum shoulder. However, if he gets into the combine and shows that that shoulder is healed, I believe that he'll be the first player taken in the draft. There's just too much upside there and he has already shown so much.

I dont know about Clausen. I didn't watch a single Notre Dame game this year. Maybe someone who is familiar with him can give a report on Clausen.

i don't know about Bradford. without the 2 injuries to the same shoulder, i would be ok with us drafting him, but because of those injuries that are basically putting him in the scenario of another hit to that shoulder and he goes from decent armed QB to Chad Pennington clone.

also, i am not really high on this QB class. if i had my choice I maybe draft Skelton late, give Orton 1 more year to either solidify his position as our long term starter or go elsewhere, and draft someone next season when the class is much better

jhns
02-08-2010, 03:17 PM
The Cutler trade is starting to look like crap.

There is no starting. The Cutler give away was dumb the second it happened. In 5 years everyone will be laughing at McDaniels for how dumb he was. Even the "McDaniels is above the team" crowd that roams here will not be able to spin it. Hopefully it teaches Bowlen a lesson and he gets a real GM in a couple years when McD is gone.

Beantown Bronco
02-08-2010, 03:25 PM
There is no starting. The Cutler give away was dumb the second it happened. In 5 years everyone will be laughing at McDaniels for how dumb he was. Even the "McDaniels is above the team" crowd that roams here will not be able to spin it. Hopefully it teaches Bowlen a lesson and he gets a real GM in a couple years when McD is gone.

Yay! Keep rooting for the team to fail.

TonyR
02-08-2010, 03:28 PM
The Cutler give away was dumb the second it happened. In 5 years everyone will be laughing at McDaniels for how dumb he was.

Funny because the way he played much of this past season a lot of people wonder how the Broncos got so much for him. Did you already forget? Or did his strong finish with nothing on the line fool you?

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 03:28 PM
There is no starting. The Cutler give away was dumb the second it happened. In 5 years everyone will be laughing at McDaniels for how dumb he was. Even the "McDaniels is above the team" crowd that roams here will not be able to spin it. Hopefully it teaches Bowlen a lesson and he gets a real GM in a couple years when McD is gone.

Yeah - even though it was pretty much Jay's decision to leave after Shanny and Bates left... Even tho it was BOWLEN's decision to trade him...

Broncos fans are getting dumber and and dumber.

:thumbsup:

TonyR
02-08-2010, 03:32 PM
Broncos fans are getting dumber and and dumber.


When it comes to some of these guys, there is no "getting". They started there and are now finding new levels of stupidity.

Beantown, isn't there a clip from Dumb and Dumber that may fit here perfectly?

jhns
02-08-2010, 03:32 PM
Funny because the way he played much of this past season a lot of people wonder how the Broncos got so much for him. Did you already forget? Or did his strong finish with nothing on the line fool you?

Maybe Mike Shanahan fooled me into thinking he knows what a good QB is.

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 03:34 PM
When it comes to some of these guys, there is no "getting". They started there and are now finding new levels of stupidity.

Beantown, isn't there a clip from Dumb and Dumber that may fit here perfectly?

That's exactly what was in my head... new levels of stupidity. Some of these guys are just blind with goggles/tunnel vision.

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 03:35 PM
Maybe Mike Shanahan fooled me into thinking he knows what a good QB is.

You're completely disregarding what I said? Not surprising... because you know how stupid you are yet you continue to act like what I said wasn't true. :rofl:

jhns
02-08-2010, 03:36 PM
Yeah - even though it was pretty much Jay's decision to leave after Shanny and Bates left... Even tho it was BOWLEN's decision to trade him...

Broncos fans are getting dumber and and dumber.

:thumbsup:

Maybe this is the problem. People don't even know what happened after all of this time. I have some interviews from Bowlen and McDaniels that I will post in about an hour. They will show how smart you are as you call others dumb. It will be good times.

orangemonkey
02-08-2010, 03:36 PM
Yeah - even though it was pretty much Jay's decision to leave after Shanny and Bates left... Even tho it was BOWLEN's decision to trade him...

Broncos fans are getting dumber and and dumber.

:thumbsup:

wrong. Jay's studying playbook for two weeks prior to Cassel rumors. Hears the rumors and gets pissed. He and McD piss and moan and act like immature kids (ego sword fight). Jay gets his agent involved, McD gets Bowlen involved. Bowlen makes the final decision allegedly because Jay won't return calls. Bowlen states later that if both McD and Jay could do it over again, both would prob handle it differently.

This **** started with McD's big ego and got worse with Jay's. Either way, Jay will not be competing for a starting job for at least the next 5 years and Orton will be for the rest of his career.

The current statement from Bowlen does not bode well for Orton in my opinion.

Beantown Bronco
02-08-2010, 03:36 PM
Broncos fans are getting dumber and and dumber.

:thumbsup:

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Beantown Bronco
02-08-2010, 03:38 PM
Either way, Jay will not be competing for a starting job for at least the next 5 years

I wouldn't be so sure about the next 2 years, much less 5.

jhns
02-08-2010, 03:40 PM
Yay! Keep rooting for the team to fail.

How exactly does this little spin work? Do you care to break it down? Show the hope part of it. I mean, you don't make any sense. I'm not sure why I expect more from you at this point though.

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 03:41 PM
wrong. Jay's studying playbook for two weeks prior to Cassel rumors. Hears the rumors and gets pissed. He and McD piss and moan and act like immature kids (ego sword fight). Jay gets his agent involved, McD gets Bowlen involved. Bowlen makes the final decision allegedly because Jay won't return calls. Bowlen states later that if both McD and Jay could do it over again, both would prob handle it differently.

This **** started with McD's big ego and got worse with Jay's. Either way, Jay will not be competing for a starting job for at least the next 5 years and Orton will be for the rest of his career.

The current statement from Bowlen does not bode well for Orton in my opinion.

Wrong? It wasn't Bowlen's decision to trade Jay? reread dumber and dumber.

PRBronco
02-08-2010, 03:41 PM
wrong. Jay's studying playbook for two weeks prior to Cassel rumors. Hears the rumors and gets pissed. He and McD piss and moan and act like immature kids (ego sword fight). Jay gets his agent involved, McD gets Bowlen involved. Bowlen makes the final decision allegedly because Jay won't return calls. Bowlen states later that if both McD and Jay could do it over again, both would prob handle it differently.

This **** started with McD's big ego and got worse with Jay's. Either way, Jay will not be competing for a starting job for at least the next 5 years and Orton will be for the rest of his career.

The current statement from Bowlen does not bode well for Orton in my opinion.

Hilarious!

Beantown Bronco
02-08-2010, 03:43 PM
How exactly does this little spin work? Do you care to break it down? Show the hope part of it. I mean, you don't make any sense. I'm not sure why I expect more from you at this point though.

You're hoping that McD is gone in a few years. You just said so. In order for that to be true, then he would've had to have failed here.

jhns
02-08-2010, 03:43 PM
You're completely disregarding what I said? Not surprising... because you know how stupid you are yet you continue to act like what I said wasn't true. :rofl:

Poor kid. It is much better posting here before school gets out. The majority of posters during the day have moved on from the "you're a do-do head" posts.

I'm not arguing it because there is nothing to argue. Like I said, you will all see the truth in a few years. Be patient.

The MVPlaya
02-08-2010, 03:46 PM
Poor kid. It is much better posting here before school gets out. The majority of posters during the day have moved on from the "you're a do-do head" posts.

I'm not arguing it because there is nothing to argue. Like I said, you will all see the truth in a few years. Be patient.

This topic isn't about a few years - it's about how the misconception of the Cutler situations trickles down to dumb fans like you.

A few years? Ok Ms. Cleo. Hilarious!

epicSocialism4tw
02-08-2010, 03:54 PM
i don't know about Bradford. without the 2 injuries to the same shoulder, i would be ok with us drafting him, but because of those injuries that are basically putting him in the scenario of another hit to that shoulder and he goes from decent armed QB to Chad Pennington clone.

also, i am not really high on this QB class. if i had my choice I maybe draft Skelton late, give Orton 1 more year to either solidify his position as our long term starter or go elsewhere, and draft someone next season when the class is much better

Its one injury to one shoulder. They arent two separate injuries.

jhns
02-08-2010, 04:19 PM
You're hoping that McD is gone in a few years. You just said so. In order for that to be true, then he would've had to have failed here.

When did I say I hope?

jhns
02-08-2010, 04:19 PM
This topic isn't about a few years - it's about how the misconception of the Cutler situations trickles down to dumb fans like you.

A few years? Ok Ms. Cleo. Hilarious!

Ahh, how fun it was to be 13.

jhns
02-08-2010, 04:25 PM
Yeah - even though it was pretty much Jay's decision to leave after Shanny and Bates left... Even tho it was BOWLEN's decision to trade him...

Broncos fans are getting dumber and and dumber.

:thumbsup:

So you know more than us stupid fans about this situation, right?

McDaniels says bull****.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/2125/mcdaniels-handles-cutler-circus

"McDaniels said Cutler never asked him to be traded early in the offseason. It has been reported that Cutler did ask for a trade prior to Denver talking about acquiring Matt Cassel and trading Cutler. McDaniels maintained Denver never initiated trade talks. Cutler has said he knows for a fact that the Broncos did start talks."

Bowlen said the same thing. Cutler never wanted out because of Bates. You don't even know the basics of the situation and you are in here acting like a 2 year old. You may want to get your facts straight before calling everyone else dumb.

By the way. McDaniels says Cutler is a good QB there. He replies to the question of when it is a good thing for the Broncos to trade him with, "Never.". I agree McDaniels, I agree.....

jhns
02-08-2010, 04:28 PM
This topic isn't about a few years - it's about how the misconception of the Cutler situations trickles down to dumb fans like you.

A few years? Ok Ms. Cleo. Hilarious!

Actually, you are the one going on about nothing. I didn't even respond to you when you went off on the "you didn't even respond to what I said". Well, duh. That happens when I quote someone else and reply to them......

Funny that you are the one telling people they are dumb.

TonyR
02-08-2010, 05:43 PM
Jay's studying playbook for two weeks...

Did he sit at the actual bar while studying or did he sit at one of those little round, high tables adjacent to the bar? And did he look up from the playbook when the bar maid approached or did he just grunt his order while looking down? And while studying said playbook did he have visions of firing strikes beyond the outstretched hands of the three defenders covering his target?

Beantown Bronco
02-08-2010, 06:09 PM
Did he sit at the actual bar while studying or did he sit at one of those little round, high tables adjacent to the bar? And did he look up from the playbook when the bar maid approached or did he just grunt his order while looking down? And while studying said playbook did he have visions of firing strikes beyond the outstretched hands of the three defenders covering his target?

Obviously his buddies quizzed him while playing beer pong. Jeez.

baja
02-08-2010, 06:31 PM
Get Orton protection and a running game and you will be surprised how much you like him as our starting QB.

tsiguy96
02-08-2010, 06:34 PM
its baffling that people still criticize mcd for trading cutler after the season he just had. are you serious? hes regressing at an alarming rate, and hiring mike martz just ended cutlers chance at a good career.

bronco militia
02-08-2010, 06:34 PM
Get Orton protection and a running game and you will be surprised how much you like him as our starting QB.

until the playoff teams force orton to beat them.....see brian griese, jake plummer, kyle orton.

orangemonkey
02-08-2010, 06:38 PM
Tony, Bean, Thug-life (AKA stupid, stupider and stupidest)

Read this article for the sequence of events:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3949578

Pay particular attention (if you can manage) to this paragraph:

Cutler was upset about the trade talks and completely blindsided by the notion. Smyth said Tuesday that Cutler is aware that the team is releasing the statement about its stance of not trading him and the fact that he will be meeting with the team next week. Cutler is in Nashville. He was going to return to Denver this week to study the playbook with McDaniels before the bombshell news broke.

I'll also dig up the article that shows Cutler in Denver prior actually studying the playbook.

orangemonkey
02-08-2010, 06:56 PM
I wouldn't be so sure about the next 2 years, much less 5.

Cutler will be fine and he has a lot of upside unlike Orton. The real point here is that McD's youth caused big problems for us and is the key reason our QB stable is jacked. Ironic since he's supposed to be a QB genius. Right.

I'm pretty excited about Bowlen's comments. It gives McD an out on the Bmarsh situation but puts some earned pressure on the QB issue and knee-jerk, ego driven decision making of a 33 year old head coach. Also, makes for a much more exciting draft and free agency.

I can see Ellis up in McD's ass this pre-season.

orangemonkey
02-08-2010, 07:04 PM
Wrong? It wasn't Bowlen's decision to trade Jay? reread dumber and dumber.

no you wrong because you focused on Bowlen making the final decision. Who cares about the rubber stamp. It was irreparable before Bowlen decided to ship him out.

BroncoMan4ever
02-08-2010, 08:19 PM
Its one injury to one shoulder. They arent two separate injuries.

i thought he had the bad injury and then rehabbed it for several weeks it got better and then he got hit and suffered the same injury again.

even if it was just aggravating the previous injury, that takes a big toll on the throwing arm. if it wasn't his throwing arm, i would be fine bringing him in, but i don't like the idea of picking a guy in the top 10/11 picks with previous injury or injuries to his throwing shoulder.

BroncoMan4ever
02-08-2010, 08:21 PM
Get Orton protection and a running game and you will be surprised how much you like him as our starting QB.

i agree completely.

BroncoMan4ever
02-08-2010, 08:26 PM
Cutler will be fine and he has a lot of upside unlike Orton. The real point here is that McD's youth caused big problems for us and is the key reason our QB stable is jacked. Ironic since he's supposed to be a QB genius. Right.


why do so many talk about Cutler like we dumped Peyton Manning? he was nothing special in Denver, never took the next step in his development, had it in his mind that he was already great and didn't need to work on anything, and this season he actually regressed as a player.

also, Cutler has more athletic ability that Orton, but doesn't have the intelligence or mentality to put that together. it is said a QB will show you how good he can be in his 3rd or 4th season. in his 3rd and 4th seasons Jay has thrown more INTs than anyone else in the league, and has gone 15-17.

if he hasn't gotten his act on the field together by now, he never will
McDaniels saw what he was and got rid of that inevitable cancer.

and what made Orton so bad?

he threw the ball like 150 times fewer than Jay the year before, had 5 fewer TDs, but half the amount of Turnovers Jay did, and only a few hundred fewer passing yards.

face facts, the QB so many claim is so far inferior to the diabetic b**** we had before, put up almost equal stats. give the guy some protection and help with a running game and he will outperform Jay's 2008 season

jhns
02-08-2010, 09:53 PM
why do so many talk about Cutler like we dumped Peyton Manning? he was nothing special in Denver, never took the next step in his development, had it in his mind that he was already great and didn't need to work on anything, and this season he actually regressed as a player.

also, Cutler has more athletic ability that Orton, but doesn't have the intelligence or mentality to put that together. it is said a QB will show you how good he can be in his 3rd or 4th season. in his 3rd and 4th seasons Jay has thrown more INTs than anyone else in the league, and has gone 15-17.

if he hasn't gotten his act on the field together by now, he never will
McDaniels saw what he was and got rid of that inevitable cancer.

and what made Orton so bad?

he threw the ball like 150 times fewer than Jay the year before, had 5 fewer TDs, but half the amount of Turnovers Jay did, and only a few hundred fewer passing yards.

face facts, the QB so many claim is so far inferior to the diabetic b**** we had before, put up almost equal stats. give the guy some protection and help with a running game and he will outperform Jay's 2008 season

He didn't put up near the stats. The offense was worse in every important category other than turnovers and it barely was better at that. They were great at not turning it over at the beginning of the seasons but it didn't last.

Anyways, you just said it. We know a QB by their 3rd or 4th season. We just saw Ortons 5th season. Orton got us the same record as Cutler and he had a far superior defense and special teams. Great argument.... McDaniels way downgraded the position because a young player cried and the team **** its pants. Hopefully we will get a GM before we hire such an underqualified HC. Two seasons as offensive coordinator and zero years as a head coach at any level and this guy gets full control. I don't understand.

BroncoMan4ever
02-08-2010, 11:25 PM
He didn't put up near the stats. The offense was worse in every important category other than turnovers and it barely was better at that. They were great at not turning it over at the beginning of the seasons but it didn't last.

Anyways, you just said it. We know a QB by their 3rd or 4th season. We just saw Ortons 5th season. Orton got us the same record as Cutler and he had a far superior defense and special teams. Great argument.... McDaniels way downgraded the position because a young player cried and the team **** its pants. Hopefully we will get a GM before we hire such an underqualified HC. Two seasons as offensive coordinator and zero years as a head coach at any level and this guy gets full control. I don't understand.

there are basically 2 full seasons that Orton didn't play. technically in terms of games played(49), Orton just completed year 3 of his playing career, and he took a huge leap forward in terms of development in his 3rd year, and if given a chance looks poised to build on that. Cutler in game 53 of his career, jthe equivalent of 3 full seasons and 5 games regressed in his 3rd season, to looking like a Jeff George clone and looking like he is always going to be a story of potential that never put it together

Orton 2009 in Denver
Rating 86.8 Completions 336 Attempts 541 PCT 62.1 Yards3802 YPG 237.6 Average 7.0 TD 21 INT 12

Cutler 2008 in Denver
Rating 86.0 Completions 384 Attempts 616 PCT 62.3 Yards 4526 YPG 282.9 Average 7.3 TD 25 INT 18

Orton had almost identical Passer Rating, Completion percentage, yards per attempt

Orton threw 1 TD for every 26 attempts
Cutler threw 1 TD for every 25 attempts

Orton threw 1 INT in every 45 attempts
Cutler threw 1 INT in every 34 attempts

the only reason Cutler's numbers look superior to Orton, is because he threw the ball more often. if averaged out, Orton was the better more efficiant passer.

~Crash~
02-08-2010, 11:31 PM
Interesting read.

Nothing too surprising, though I still can't imagine Marshall suiting up for us next year. Maybe my read on the whole thing is just off... but I think he wants to be the highest paid receiver in the league, and I don't think the Broncos want any part of that.

Link ??? or is this more blow hard for you ...:P

broncofan7
02-09-2010, 07:10 AM
Link ??? or is this more blow hard for you ...:P

oh--he BLOWS AND HARD.

jhns
02-09-2010, 07:24 AM
there are basically 2 full seasons that Orton didn't play. technically in terms of games played(49), Orton just completed year 3 of his playing career, and he took a huge leap forward in terms of development in his 3rd year, and if given a chance looks poised to build on that. Cutler in game 53 of his career, jthe equivalent of 3 full seasons and 5 games regressed in his 3rd season, to looking like a Jeff George clone and looking like he is always going to be a story of potential that never put it together

Orton 2009 in Denver
Rating 86.8 Completions 336 Attempts 541 PCT 62.1 Yards3802 YPG 237.6 Average 7.0 TD 21 INT 12

Cutler 2008 in Denver
Rating 86.0 Completions 384 Attempts 616 PCT 62.3 Yards 4526 YPG 282.9 Average 7.3 TD 25 INT 18

Orton had almost identical Passer Rating, Completion percentage, yards per attempt

Orton threw 1 TD for every 26 attempts
Cutler threw 1 TD for every 25 attempts

Orton threw 1 INT in every 45 attempts
Cutler threw 1 INT in every 34 attempts

the only reason Cutler's numbers look superior to Orton, is because he threw the ball more often. if averaged out, Orton was the better more efficiant passer.

Orton just played his 5th year. He doesn't get a pass for the years he sat. That is still NFL experience. Look at guys like Rivers and Rodgers that sat. They didn't look like fresh rookies when they started and quickly showed their worth.

You just showed it. Orton was asked to do a lot less than Cutler and still wasn't any more efficient. Cutler, with E less years of experience and while carrying this team, was far better than Orton. The QB efficiency rating proves it. Also, you are missing a couple of Cutlers TDs that don't even go into that. Of course, we could continue to ignore the other parts of his game that he brought.

No matter the spin, or how butthurt you are, there is no defending going from Cutler to Orton. It will be McDaniels downfall in Denver. I don't understand why everyone finds it OK. Of course, you guys actually argue that Orton is good, so.....

Paladin
02-09-2010, 07:32 AM
Link ??? or is this more blow hard for you ...:P

Its an opinion and Krieger in the Post today implies the same thing. (See posted article)....

I think sometimes you are the missing link.....

oubronco
02-09-2010, 08:03 AM
there are basically 2 full seasons that Orton didn't play. technically in terms of games played(49), Orton just completed year 3 of his playing career, and he took a huge leap forward in terms of development in his 3rd year, and if given a chance looks poised to build on that. Cutler in game 53 of his career, jthe equivalent of 3 full seasons and 5 games regressed in his 3rd season, to looking like a Jeff George clone and looking like he is always going to be a story of potential that never put it together

Orton 2009 in Denver
Rating 86.8 Completions 336 Attempts 541 PCT 62.1 Yards3802 YPG 237.6 Average 7.0 TD 21 INT 12

Cutler 2008 in Denver
Rating 86.0 Completions 384 Attempts 616 PCT 62.3 Yards 4526 YPG 282.9 Average 7.3 TD 25 INT 18

Orton had almost identical Passer Rating, Completion percentage, yards per attempt

Orton threw 1 TD for every 26 attempts
Cutler threw 1 TD for every 25 attempts

Orton threw 1 INT in every 45 attempts
Cutler threw 1 INT in every 34 attempts

the only reason Cutler's numbers look superior to Orton, is because he threw the ball more often. if averaged out, Orton was the better more efficiant passer.

The difference is Cutler threw the ball farther than 2-5yds and wasn't throwing screens every other throw and goes to show you how important B Marsh is

CEH
02-09-2010, 08:04 AM
there are basically 2 full seasons that Orton didn't play. technically in terms of games played(49), Orton just completed year 3 of his playing career, and he took a huge leap forward in terms of development in his 3rd year, and if given a chance looks poised to build on that. Cutler in game 53 of his career, jthe equivalent of 3 full seasons and 5 games regressed in his 3rd season, to looking like a Jeff George clone and looking like he is always going to be a story of potential that never put it together

Orton 2009 in Denver
Rating 86.8 Completions 336 Attempts 541 PCT 62.1 Yards3802 YPG 237.6 Average 7.0 TD 21 INT 12

Cutler 2008 in Denver
Rating 86.0 Completions 384 Attempts 616 PCT 62.3 Yards 4526 YPG 282.9 Average 7.3 TD 25 INT 18

Orton had almost identical Passer Rating, Completion percentage, yards per attempt

Orton threw 1 TD for every 26 attempts
Cutler threw 1 TD for every 25 attempts

Orton threw 1 INT in every 45 attempts
Cutler threw 1 INT in every 34 attempts

the only reason Cutler's numbers look superior to Orton, is because he threw the ball more often. if averaged out, Orton was the better more efficiant passer.

How about 3rd down percentage? Pretty even?
A key discriminator when evaluating an QBs effectiveness to keep his team on the field.

bronco militia
02-09-2010, 08:05 AM
why do so many talk about Cutler like we dumped Peyton Manning? he was nothing special in Denver, never took the next step in his development, had it in his mind that he was already great and didn't need to work on anything, and this season he actually regressed as a player.



he was only here 3 seasons and made the pro-bowl....it was way too early to give up on him. I would have benched the spoiled brat before ever trading him.

oubronco
02-09-2010, 08:07 AM
he was only here 3 seasons and made the pro-bowl....it was way too early to give up on him. I would have benched the spoiled brat before ever trading him.

No Doubt

jhns
02-09-2010, 08:07 AM
How about 3rd down percentage? Pretty even?
A key discriminator when evaluating an QBs effectiveness to keep his team on the field.

Cutlers offense wasa better on 3rd down and in the red zone.

CEH
02-09-2010, 08:12 AM
Cutlers offense wasa better on 3rd down and in the red zone.

47% vs 36% a signifcant drop off.

Beantown Bronco
02-09-2010, 08:20 AM
Tony, Bean, Thug-life (AKA stupid, stupider and stupidest)

Read this article for the sequence of events:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3949578

Pay particular attention (if you can manage) to this paragraph:

Cutler was upset about the trade talks and completely blindsided by the notion. Smyth said Tuesday that Cutler is aware that the team is releasing the statement about its stance of not trading him and the fact that he will be meeting with the team next week. Cutler is in Nashville. He was going to return to Denver this week to study the playbook with McDaniels before the bombshell news broke.

I'll also dig up the article that shows Cutler in Denver prior actually studying the playbook.

Why am I being named here? Not once here have I even pretended to comment on the sequence of events that led to Cutler's departure.

2KBack
02-09-2010, 08:34 AM
Why am I being named here? Not once here have I even pretended to comment on the sequence of events that led to Cutler's departure.

because you also haven't verbally assaulted any current Broncos for the drama. It's pretty black and white around here.

WolfpackGuy
02-09-2010, 09:02 AM
he was only here 3 seasons and made the pro-bowl....it was way too early to give up on him. I would have benched the spoiled brat before ever trading him.

But, but, but Matt Cassel went 10.5-5 with a team that had just come off an 18-1 season!

I really don't know why Bowlen had to get involved.

Cutler would've shown up at minicamp May 17th or whatever day it was.

I'm just glad it wasn't the Broncos who gave that chump Cassel $63 million.

Drek
02-09-2010, 11:02 AM
No matter the spin, or how butthurt you are, there is no defending going from Cutler to Orton. It will be McDaniels downfall in Denver. I don't understand why everyone finds it OK. Of course, you guys actually argue that Orton is good, so.....

I don't know, Orton, 2 1sts and a 3rd for Cutler, only to watch Orton do almost as well with Cutler's old team despite an offensive system transition for the entire unit, an interior OL that fell apart, a #1 WR who he didn't play with all pre-season, and open dissension from a starting member of the team (Tony Scheffler) seems pretty good.

Especially since Cutler did worse in Chicago than Orton did the year before, where Cutler was the only one changing systems, their first round pick from the year before was actually healthy, they brought in (the corpse of) Orlando Pace, and their ROY candidate RB was going into his second year with all the promise in the world.

Orton picked up our team QB rating by 0.8 points and we finished with the same record. Cutler lowered the Bears QB rating by 2.8 points and they finished 7-9 after going 9-7 the year before, a two game slide.

So far one team looks to have won that trade and it sure isn't the team that got Cutler. So is Cutler going to suddenly flip the switch right off here? He needs to because the Broncos have a young OLB who already contributed last year despite everyone labeling him a three year project and they've got the #10 or #11 pick this year to only improve Denver's return on that deal.

jhns
02-09-2010, 11:38 AM
I don't know, Orton, 2 1sts and a 3rd for Cutler, only to watch Orton do almost as well with Cutler's old team despite an offensive system transition for the entire unit, an interior OL that fell apart, a #1 WR who he didn't play with all pre-season, and open dissension from a starting member of the team (Tony Scheffler) seems pretty good.

Especially since Cutler did worse in Chicago than Orton did the year before, where Cutler was the only one changing systems, their first round pick from the year before was actually healthy, they brought in (the corpse of) Orlando Pace, and their ROY candidate RB was going into his second year with all the promise in the world.

Orton picked up our team QB rating by 0.8 points and we finished with the same record. Cutler lowered the Bears QB rating by 2.8 points and they finished 7-9 after going 9-7 the year before, a two game slide.

So far one team looks to have won that trade and it sure isn't the team that got Cutler. So is Cutler going to suddenly flip the switch right off here? He needs to because the Broncos have a young OLB who already contributed last year despite everyone labeling him a three year project and they've got the #10 or #11 pick this year to only improve Denver's return on that deal.

First off, Orton got the same record as Cutler here. Orton had the same offense with the addition of a few receivers, a first round RB, and a second round TE. The starters were the same here and the offense was far less productive. Orton got a defense and special teams and still only managed the same record. Cutlers last year here also saw far more injuries. That is even true if you take out the 7 RB injuries. What a joke of an argument.

As for Chicago, they have no offensve coaching. They didn't start the same offense as Orton had. Their defense took on a ton more injuries and didn't play near as good. What Cutler does in Chicago isn't the point though. The point is what he would have done here as he grew with that extremely young offense and had a good offensive coach. You may care about Chicago but I don't. I care that the offense is far worse now than it was just because we got a rookie coach that has no idea how to deal with players or run a team.

Also, Josh McDaniels said it himself. It was never in the best interest of the team to trade Cutler. He didn't say it was in the best interest of the team if Cutler cries and they can get some picks.

Oh well, you will all agree with me after McDaniels is fired in a year or two. It will get even worse as Cutler developes over the next few years and we have no QB.

BroncoMan4ever
02-09-2010, 11:55 AM
he was only here 3 seasons and made the pro-bowl....it was way too early to give up on him. I would have benched the spoiled brat before ever trading him.

give me a break on pro bowl talk. he went in a year that ignored a guy who was putting up MVP calibur numbers in Rivers. the only reason Rivers didn't go, is because he is a bit of a dikwad and he didn't get the player vote. Kerry Collins was in that pro bowl.

the pro bowl is nothing. for the most part it is a joke, because it never gets the best players correct.

jhns
02-09-2010, 12:02 PM
give me a break on pro bowl talk. he went in a year that ignored a guy who was putting up MVP calibur numbers in Rivers. the only reason Rivers didn't go, is because he is a bit of a dikwad and he didn't get the player vote. Kerry Collins was in that pro bowl.

the pro bowl is nothing. for the most part it is a joke, because it never gets the best players correct.

If anyone was to be replaced from the original selection, it was Favre. Anyways, it does make people look dumb that try convincing others Cutler had a bad year with us. The 3 best may not be in the pro bowl but it isn't like they have players who were bad that season. That is especially true when talking about young players that make it.

Drek
02-09-2010, 12:08 PM
First off, Orton got the same record as Cutler here. Orton had the same offense with the addition of a few receivers, a first round RB, and a second round TE. The starters were the same here and the offense was far less productive. Orton got a defense and special teams and still only managed the same record. Cutlers last year here also saw far more injuries. That is even true if you take out the 7 RB injuries. What a joke of an argument.
So Cutler had to deal with Tyler Polumbus at RT for 10 games last season? I must have missed that. Thanks.

Other than RB, where we plugged in worthwhile options up until near the end of the season in '08, what big offensive injury was there? I can't think of one. The whole OL was healthy. Marshall was apparently hurt but he still played, and well enough so that no one even knew until the season was over. Royal, Scheffler, Graham, and Stokley where all healthy pretty much the whole season too.

The team was marginally less productive on offense when it came to actually scoring points, and that was with the entire roster changing scheme except a small handful of players. Orton was still a great match for Cutler in production and the team finished with the same record, largely because while the defense was amazing the first six games it was very pedestrian much of the last 10. Cutler should know a thing or two about that though, he watched it happen in '07 just before he took over at QB. Sometimes end of season numbers can be very deceiving.

As for Chicago, they have no offensve coaching.
Pretty much the same guys Orton had to work with.

They didn't start the same offense as Orton had.
What productive player did they lose? All the changes made where supposed to be upgrades.

Their defense took on a ton more injuries and didn't play near as good.
They didn't play nearly as good because their starting QB kept turning the ball over. So they lost Urlacher and his replacement at MLB. They played the entire 2008 season without Tommi Harris and where still trying to rely on Mike Brown in the secondary. They've had a lot of injuries the last two years on defense, period. In 2008 they where 21st in the league in Yards per game against, 334. In 2009 they where 17th in the league at 337. They allowed 2 points per game more last season, but finished in nearly the same exact spot from a league wide perspective (scoring was up). In short, the defense was pretty much the same from a production standpoint as what Orton played with.

What Cutler does in Chicago isn't the point though. The point is what he would have done here as he grew with that extremely young offense and had a good offensive coach. You may care about Chicago but I don't. I care that the offense is far worse now than it was just because we got a rookie coach that has no idea how to deal with players or run a team.
I don't care what happens to Cutler, he's not a Bronco anymore. But you're trying to play revisionist history and that is bull****. Maybe Cutler would have found a way to stop making the big INT when the game mattered most, or maybe he would have stayed true to form his entire career and wasted another five years of this franchise's time. Either way, he didn't want to play here and now he doesn't, end of story.

Also, Josh McDaniels said it himself. It was never in the best interest of the team to trade Cutler. He didn't say it was in the best interest of the team if Cutler cries and they can get some picks.

Oh well, you will all agree with me after McDaniels is fired in a year or two. It will get even worse as Cutler developes over the next few years and we have no QB.
Sure thing, we'll see how that works out for you. Singing the exact same tune as the last off-season even though the results from the 2009 season go directly in the face of it. It shows commitment at least.

WolfpackGuy
02-09-2010, 12:11 PM
So what would Denver's record have been with Cutler in 2009?

Chicago's record with Orton?

jhns
02-09-2010, 12:30 PM
I'm not quoting all of that Drek as it looks huge on my phone.

You should really look into the injury thing. Last years team had 5-10 times the number of injuries.

This years offense was not nearly as productive as last years. That goes for points, yards, 3rd down, red zone, or anything else you can think of. This years offense was also older.

As far as the scheme change argument goes, it is a lame one. The defense changed all but 2 starters and had a much bigger scheme change. They got a ton better. I don't think that is a good excuse. There are many examples of teams getting better after coaching and scheme changes. We got worse on offense because we gave away our good QB for a junk QB.

You say the defense was bad after week 6? Well, when exactly did our wins come? You may want to look at other stuff like the Pitt game. The defense played great but the offense went 3 and out all but one drive the first half. Of course they are going to get tired and start breaking down.

As for Chicago, I didn't even read that part of your argument. It is a pretty lame one. They were missing stars on defense and their defense played far worse this year. They changed a bunch on offense and it turned out their lack of offensive minds didn't make the right moves. Again, I really don't care what happens in Chicago. I am worried about the Broncos.

Beantown Bronco
02-09-2010, 12:32 PM
I'm not quoting all of that Drek as it looks huge on my phone.

The dreaded Sean Salisbury effect.

Dedhed
02-09-2010, 12:37 PM
I wonder how people explain that Chicago's offense averaged 3 points less with Cutler than it did with Orton. Just like our offense this year vs last.

jhns
02-09-2010, 12:47 PM
I wonder how people explain that Chicago's offense averaged 3 points less with Cutler than it did with Orton. Just like our offense this year vs last.

Well, they have the same o-line excuses we do. Their offseason moves turned out to be bad in that department. They also changed receivers and a rookie was their best target.

The reality is they had a horrible offensive coordinator that seems to think getting a QB means you don't need to run. They tried to let Cutler wing it around every play. That was as bad for Cutler as it was for them. They didn't have a coordinator that could get guys open consistently and that called horrible plays. If Cutler is going to be good, he is going to have to hook up with a good offensive mind again. That team should have been commited to the run like they were with Orton. The few games I watched, they never established the run and wouldn't even attempt to run for 2-3 series in a row at times.

BroncoMan4ever
02-09-2010, 12:57 PM
So what would Denver's record have been with Cutler in 2009?

Chicago's record with Orton?

i say Denver would have gone sub .500 with Cutler turning the ball over at an almost 2 INTs a game rate.

Chicago, i say would have gone over .500 with Orton. there were a few games that Chicago lost this season that were only by a very small amount, or due to untimely mistakes by Cutler. cut out those mistakes and those close losses could potentially have been wins.

this past season without Cutler we had a +5 turnover margin with Orton leading the way, no way does that record happen with the -17 turnover margin that the Cutler led offense had in Jay;s last season here.

jhns
02-09-2010, 01:05 PM
this past season without Cutler we had a +5 turnover margin with Orton leading the way, no way does that record happen with the -17 turnover margin that the Cutler led offense had in Jay;s last season here.

LOL

See you guys only continue to prove who isn't being rational. I'm real sure that 22 difference in turnover margin was because we got rid of Cutler. The offense having 6 less turnovers is exactly where that difference comes in.... It can't be the defense that was one turnover away from the record for fewest turnovers ever in a season.....

Again, only showing Cutler was asked to do far more with far less. Oh yeah, he also had 2 fewer years in the league than what Orton had last year.

The best part of all of this is even McD and Bowlen are showing Orton didn't get it done. Yeah, McD listened to some calls about Cutler. Well, he is making calls for a new QB this year. The owner said he wants to draft a QB in an interview. How does all of this fit in your argument that Orton is getting the job done?

Mr.Meanie
02-09-2010, 01:11 PM
Well, they have the same o-line excuses we do. Their offseason moves turned out to be bad in that department. They also changed receivers and a rookie was their best target.

The reality is they had a horrible offensive coordinator that seems to think getting a QB means you don't need to run. They tried to let Cutler wing it around every play. That was as bad for Cutler as it was for them. They didn't have a coordinator that could get guys open consistently and that called horrible plays. If Cutler is going to be good, he is going to have to hook up with a good offensive mind again. That team should have been commited to the run like they were with Orton. The few games I watched, they never established the run and wouldn't even attempt to run for 2-3 series in a row at times.

I'm curious to see what Martz' approach is going to be in this area.

tsiguy96
02-09-2010, 01:15 PM
jhns, go to the bears forum and tell them everything you are telling us, they need all the comfort they can get knowing they have no way to build their team at all this year.

jhns
02-09-2010, 01:19 PM
jhns, go to the bears forum and tell them everything you are telling us, they need all the comfort they can get knowing they have no way to build their team at all this year.

How would I comfort the Bears? By telling them why they were bad last season? I don't get it.

tsiguy96
02-09-2010, 01:24 PM
How would I comfort the Bears? By telling them why they were bad last season? I don't get it.

by telling the half of them that hate cutler that its ok, hell be good sometime!

jhns
02-09-2010, 01:29 PM
by telling the half of them that hate cutler that its ok, hell be good sometime!


I will leave that to you. You are the one obsessed with the Bears and their board. I don't feel like registering. You can just link them to my posts.

WolfpackGuy
02-09-2010, 01:40 PM
i say Denver would have gone sub .500 with Cutler turning the ball over at an almost 2 INTs a game rate.

this past season without Cutler we had a +5 turnover margin with Orton leading the way, no way does that record happen with the -17 turnover margin that the Cutler led offense had in Jay;s last season here.

Does anybody really think Cutler would've turned it over that many times had he remained in Denver in 2009?

By the way, the 2008 defense forced 13 turnovers while the 2009 defense forced 30. The 2008 offense turned it over 30 times while the 2009 offense had 23 turnovers. (Less than half a turnover per game difference.)

Yeah, they took care of the ball slightly better in 2009, but forced over twice as many turnovers on defense.

Beantown Bronco
02-09-2010, 01:50 PM
Does anybody really think Cutler would've turned it over that many times had he remained in Denver in 2009?


1. He was close in 2008.

2. He turned it over 5 freaking times in a 10-6 loss in which his defense played one of the best games I've ever seen out of a single unit. His insanity at the position knows no bounds.

watermock
02-09-2010, 01:52 PM
By the way, the 2008 defense forced 13 turnovers while the 2009 defense forced 30. The 2008 offense turned it over 30 times while the 2009 offense had 23 turnovers. (Less than half a turnover per game difference.)


So let's hire an existing coach so he can suck Beavis' nuts and hire his brother to coach Orton. Brilliant!

Meanwhile, Denver hasn't signed ANY RFA's, none.

Beantown Bronco
02-09-2010, 01:53 PM
Meanwhile, Denver hasn't signed ANY RFA's, none.

Care to know why? Because FA hasn't even opened yet.

watermock
02-09-2010, 01:54 PM
1. He was close in 2008.

2. He turned it over 5 freaking times in a 10-6 loss in which his defense played one of the best games I've ever seen out of a single unit. His insanity at the position knows no bounds.

The Buffalo game he made alot of bad throws, now explain the home KC and Oakland choke job.

TonyR
02-09-2010, 02:20 PM
Care to know why? Because FA hasn't even opened yet.

LOL Should we ask him what RFA's other teams have signed or will that just further confuse the poor guy?

TonyR
02-09-2010, 03:39 PM
Mayock said it's not a good quarterback year -- in fact, he doesn't think there are any top 10 quarterbacks. Colt McCoy and Sam Bradford have shoulder issues.

"There are some Jimmy Clausen fans out there. I'm not one of them," Mayock said.



Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/97021/index.html#ixzz0f55tK1Vl

PRBronco
02-09-2010, 03:55 PM
Mayock said it's not a good quarterback year -- in fact, he doesn't think there are any top 10 quarterbacks. Colt McCoy and Sam Bradford have shoulder issues.

"There are some Jimmy Clausen fans out there. I'm not one of them," Mayock said.



Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/97021/index.html#ixzz0f55tK1Vl

I wonder if that's why they traded up for Tom B last year, they didn't see any developmental QBs on the horizon?

Dedhed
02-09-2010, 04:10 PM
Well, they have the same o-line excuses we do. Their offseason moves turned out to be bad in that department. They also changed receivers and a rookie was their best target.
How does all that compare to every single offensive player learning a new system?

Mr.Meanie
02-09-2010, 04:11 PM
Meanwhile, Denver hasn't signed ANY RFA's, none.

lol

Dedhed
02-09-2010, 04:14 PM
explain the home KC and Oakland choke job.

Are you talking about this year's choke jobs against Oakland and KC or last year's?

Dedhed
02-09-2010, 04:16 PM
LOL Should we ask him what RFA's other teams have signed or will that just further confuse the poor guy?

No one's changed his diaper in a few days. Bear with him.

elsid13
02-09-2010, 04:22 PM
I wonder if that's why they traded up for Tom B last year, they didn't see any developmental QBs on the horizon?

Really, that truly wishful thinking.

broncofan7
02-09-2010, 05:55 PM
I wonder if that's why they traded up for Tom B last year, they didn't see any developmental QBs on the horizon?

yeah--This years'sQB draft class was part of the 90 players that they limited themselves in looking at before LAST year's draft--gimme a BREAK! :rofl:

BroncoMan4ever
02-09-2010, 06:17 PM
Does anybody really think Cutler would've turned it over that many times had he remained in Denver in 2009?

By the way, the 2008 defense forced 13 turnovers while the 2009 defense forced 30. The 2008 offense turned it over 30 times while the 2009 offense had 23 turnovers. (Less than half a turnover per game difference.)

Yeah, they took care of the ball slightly better in 2009, but forced over twice as many turnovers on defense.

i agree 26 INTs from Jay had he remained in Denver would have been highly unlikely. but i still think 18-22 would have probably been his end of the season total. 18 is how many he threw in 08 and he regressed as a player in 09, so i think his total would have been around the same or even a little higher than 08 if he was still in Denver

Flex Gunmetal
02-09-2010, 07:49 PM
Meanwhile, Denver hasn't signed ANY RFA's, none.

You are such an idiotic jackass it's astounding.

521 1N5
02-09-2010, 08:10 PM
You are such an idiotic jackass it's astounding.

No, it's called being contrary just for attention. It's sad really. But that's how some get by.

rastaman
02-10-2010, 07:14 AM
i agree 26 INTs from Jay had he remained in Denver would have been highly unlikely. but i still think 18-22 would have probably been his end of the season total. 18 is how many he threw in 08 and he regressed as a player in 09, so i think his total would have been around the same or even a little higher than 08 if he was still in Denver

So how many interceptions are QB's allowed throw per season? I think fans over react to a degree when it comes to interceptions and it serves as a safe bet for reasons to complain about a QB(s) they really don't like for some reason. I for one think if a Qb throws 20 or more picks then its a problem no doubt. However to pick on a QB b/c they throw picks under 20 are just complainers. Point is, QB's will throw interceptions its part of the game. You wish they didn't throw them but they do. Sooner or later a QB will get on a bad streak and start throwing interceptions. Even Orton had his streak of interceptions and got a view breaks when some of his passes were dropped at 5 or 6 times by opposing players.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-10-2010, 07:35 AM
Care to know why? Because FA hasn't even opened yet.

Now, now, Beantown. No sense using facts to talk to mock. He's been in the peanut butter again, and now he's fallen and he can't get up.