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View Full Version : Is Caldwell "better" than Dungy, or is it just all about Manning?


DarkHorse30
02-05-2010, 03:53 PM
It looks to me like Caldwell came out of nowhere to be a pretty stinking good coach. I just think he's all about the game and not about anything else.

bpc
02-05-2010, 03:58 PM
Anybody could coach that team to a championship. Except McDaniels. He'd flip Manning for a couple firsts and draft a slow, short, nickel CB. ha ha.

Hamrob
02-05-2010, 04:07 PM
I don't know if anyone saw the lockerroom clip of the Colts after their Championship win. It wasn't Caldwell doing the talking...it was Manning.

He was telling everyone, you'd better be prepared. Take some time off, but do your job. Prepare yourself well. We still have one game left. And, he wasn't playing. He was telling them...you better, or else.

That guy runs that team (period). He's the only guy who I think could do that and everybody is o.k. with it.

To me Elway was the best football player ever. I grew up with him....lived a block from training camp in Greeley...and even got to spend some time with him as a kid. he was simply AMAZING.

Peyton Manning on the other hand...is a MACHINE. He's easily the best QB ever. Guys like Elway, Favre, Unitus were Football Players. Guys like Manning, Montana, Moreno are/were purely QB's. I'm not saying either is better, just pointing out the difference. Both sets are great. Manning will be the best QB ever. To me, Elway will always be the best Football Player ever!

strafen
02-05-2010, 04:11 PM
I think he walked into a good situation.
His situation could be compared to what George Siefert walked into when Walsh retired as head coach for the 49'ers
Still, the best thing Caldwell did is what he didn't do; don't mess with success...

I give him credit for the way he managed the team. Certainly, there could've been a lot of things go wrong for him and he clearly managed to keep it together.

BroncoMan4ever
02-05-2010, 04:14 PM
Manning is the QB and HC of that team. Caldwell is nothing but a figurehead. He is like the Queen of England, has the title but no power. as Manning goes, so go the Colts.

WolfpackGuy
02-05-2010, 04:16 PM
Does Caldwell speak?

broncswin
02-05-2010, 05:10 PM
Anybody could coach that team to a championship. Except McDaniels. He'd flip Manning for a couple firsts and draft a slow, short, nickel CB. ha ha.

only took a couple of post...

Manning is a stud...Dungy built that team, I do think the new guy is a good coach, but he was handed a frickin high powered rocket8')

ColoradoDarin
02-05-2010, 06:09 PM
only took a couple of post...

Manning is a stud...Dungy built that team, I do think the new guy is a good coach, but he was handed a frickin high powered rocket8')

This message is hidden because bpc is on your ignore list.

:strong:

Archer81
02-05-2010, 06:11 PM
They swapped Dungy for Caldwell. The staff remained largely intact. Caldwell is exactly like Dungy in temperment, so nothing really dramatic happened in Indi. He also had a year or two to sit behind Dungy and learn how to be a HC.

:Broncos:

hades
02-05-2010, 06:12 PM
Does Caldwell speak?

Only when Peyton asks him a question.

bpc
02-05-2010, 08:05 PM
only took a couple of post...

Manning is a stud...Dungy built that team, I do think the new guy is a good coach, but he was handed a frickin high powered rocket8')

Sorry, had to the take the shot!

I've prided myself on not doing it but couldn't pass it up.

bpc
02-05-2010, 08:06 PM
This message is hidden because bpc is on your ignore list.

:strong:

I like the ignore function because the people's opinion I care least about are the ones that use it.

What's the use of listening to sheep?

Baaaaaaaa. Baaaaaaaaaaaa.

Dudeskey
02-05-2010, 08:08 PM
Dennis Erickson could 'switzer' his way to the SB w/ this team

broncswin
02-05-2010, 09:06 PM
Sorry, had to the take the shot!

I've prided myself on not doing it but couldn't pass it up.

:curtsey:

maher_tyler
02-05-2010, 09:41 PM
Anybody could coach that team to a championship. Except McDaniels. He'd flip Manning for a couple firsts and draft a slow, short, nickel CB. ha ha.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_dlkAw43cLC0/SSgRL66koDI/AAAAAAAAA_Y/l8nSAZMJcMo/s800/24-Retards.jpg

woodall
02-05-2010, 09:44 PM
The Colts are Peyton Manning. Any coach in the NFL could get to the Super bowl with Peyton Manning at quarterback even McDouchebag.

Killericon
02-05-2010, 10:08 PM
It's not as if Caldwell came out of nowhere, he's been with the team for years.

azbroncfan
02-06-2010, 04:16 AM
Anybody could coach that team to a championship. Except McDaniels. He'd flip Manning for a couple firsts and draft a slow, short, nickel CB. ha ha.

So your comparing Cutler to Manning again?

DarkHorse30
02-06-2010, 04:30 AM
a hypothetical scenario:

Irsay hires a new young guy instead of promoting within. Colts don't advance to the SB. Caldwell was the right guy on a great team.

I could compare Indy to what happened with Denver, but it's a pointless comparison because a) there was no-one to promote from within - NO ONE b) our team wasn't NEAR good enough with or without the baby-who-won't-be-named, and c) our team was barely average in 2008 ....barely

bpc
02-06-2010, 05:22 AM
So your comparing Cutler to Manning again?

Nah. You could argue statistically on many fronts for Jay Cutler but statistics are wasted on the masses, and besides its water under the bridge. However, you don't take a young, talented QB and flip him for nothing.

The key to winning in this league is good Qb play. Not guys like Kyle Orton.

Think about Indy. Everything has changed. Defensive players, skill position players, offensive linemen, coodinators, head coaches. Everything has changed yet they've had 10 seasons out if Manning's 12, where they've won 10 games or more. Eight straight playoff appearances.

It's all about the QB position. When you find that talented young signal caller, you better hold on to them. That's the key to winning football games. :thumbsup:

Doggcow
02-06-2010, 07:33 AM
Nah. You could argue statistically on many fronts for Jay Cutler but statistics are wasted on the masses, and besides its water under the bridge. However, you don't take a young, talented QB and flip him for nothing.

The key to winning in this league is good Qb play. Not guys like Kyle Orton.

Think about Indy. Everything has changed. Defensive players, skill position players, offensive linemen, coodinators, head coaches. Everything has changed yet they've had 10 seasons out if Manning's 12, where they've won 10 games or more. Eight straight playoff appearances.

It's all about the QB position. When you find that talented young signal caller, you better hold on to them. That's the key to winning football games. :thumbsup:

I don't consider leading the league in picks talented...

Didn't he even have to throw like 4 tds against detroit in week 17 to get his ratio back to positive? lol

azbroncfan
02-06-2010, 08:17 AM
Nah. You could argue statistically on many fronts for Jay Cutler but statistics are wasted on the masses, and besides its water under the bridge. However, you don't take a young, talented QB and flip him for nothing.

The key to winning in this league is good Qb play. Not guys like Kyle Orton.

Think about Indy. Everything has changed. Defensive players, skill position players, offensive linemen, coodinators, head coaches. Everything has changed yet they've had 10 seasons out if Manning's 12, where they've won 10 games or more. Eight straight playoff appearances.

It's all about the QB position. When you find that talented young signal caller, you better hold on to them. That's the key to winning football games. :thumbsup:

your comparing apples to rotten oranges. A hall of fame vs overrated loser that is closer to a bust than hof. Stats don't work either because Manning has won early in his career and your boy never has. poor comparison.

jhns
02-06-2010, 08:21 AM
Well, it isn't all Manning. Maybe the offense is Manning but I wouldn't know. They have a really good defense and I would think Manning isn't the one coaching or calling the plays on that side of the ball. Also, they have had Manning for a long time and only have one SB with him. If it was all him, I would think they would have 2-3 more. The head coach has made at least some difference (or the d coordinator, don't know).

TotallyScrewed
02-06-2010, 09:02 AM
Dennis Erickson could 'switzer' his way to the SB w/ this team

I think that's the point. Name a coach that couldn't take that team to the SB. Winning might be another thing...


I can hope, too.

Killericon
02-06-2010, 09:05 AM
a hypothetical scenario:

Irsay hires a new young guy instead of promoting within. Colts don't advance to the SB. Caldwell was the right guy on a great team.

I could compare Indy to what happened with Denver, but it's a pointless comparison because a) there was no-one to promote from within - NO ONE b) our team wasn't NEAR good enough with or without the baby-who-won't-be-named, and c) our team was barely average in 2008 ....barely

Dungy retired. Shanahan was fired.

bpc
02-06-2010, 11:12 AM
I don't consider leading the league in picks talented...

Didn't he even have to throw like 4 tds against detroit in week 17 to get his ratio back to positive? lol

How was his OL? WR's?

That's right, STFU.

bpc
02-06-2010, 11:20 AM
your comparing apples to rotten oranges. A hall of fame vs overrated loser that is closer to a bust than hof. Stats don't work either because Manning has won early in his career and your boy never has. poor comparison.

How do you figure? His career numbers were trending up going into his fourth year. Last year could be considered a setback, but where's the talent around him? Could you even tell me there was a Devin Aromashodu before the season? NO. And he made him look competent.

I'm not even saying that Cutler IS a Peyton Manning type of player. I think Peyton Manning is going down as the greatest QB of all time. That's my opinion.

I think it's extremely likely that Cutler is a Drew Brees type of player. Brees has thrown seasons with 15 interceptions twice, 16, 17 and 18 interception seasons.

What's your overall opinion of him?

Good call.

I can certifiably say that Jay Cutler has had to carry his team every year he has started in the NFL. Often with a poor supporting cast overall. I think he's done very well in that aspect.

Don't let information get in the way of your hate parade. _i_O_i_

"Kill the pig, cut her throat, spill her blood! Kill the pig, cut her throat, spill her blood!"

azbroncfan
02-06-2010, 12:11 PM
How do you figure? His career numbers were trending up going into his fourth year. Last year could be considered a setback, but where's the talent around him? Could you even tell me there was a Devin Aromashodu before the season? NO. And he made him look competent.

I'm not even saying that Cutler IS a Peyton Manning type of player. I think Peyton Manning is going down as the greatest QB of all time. That's my opinion.

I think it's extremely likely that Cutler is a Drew Brees type of player. Brees has thrown seasons with 15 interceptions twice, 16, 17 and 18 interception seasons.

What's your overall opinion of him?

Good call.

I can certifiably say that Jay Cutler has had to carry his team every year he has started in the NFL. Often with a poor supporting cast overall. I think he's done very well in that aspect.

Don't let information get in the way of your hate parade. _i_O_i_

"Kill the pig, cut her throat, spill her blood! Kill the pig, cut her throat, spill her blood!"


My opinion of him is he hasn't improved since his second season in the league. It is quite obvious to me that Cutler will never be a Manning, Brees, Brady type that can go through multiple progressions and make a good decision. He has lead the league in poor redzone decisions since he entered the league and hasn't improved on it. He locks on to his #1 read and sometimes goes to #2 and throws some terrible off balance prayers. Hard to win with a turnover prone QB in this league. You shouldn't let your masterbation of your Bears Cutler fathead get in the way of reality. Call a spade a spade.

bpc
02-06-2010, 01:59 PM
My opinion of him is he hasn't improved since his second season in the league. It is quite obvious to me that Cutler will never be a Manning, Brees, Brady type that can go through multiple progressions and make a good decision. He has lead the league in poor redzone decisions since he entered the league and hasn't improved on it. He locks on to his #1 read and sometimes goes to #2 and throws some terrible off balance prayers. Hard to win with a turnover prone QB in this league. You shouldn't let your masterbation of your Bears Cutler fathead get in the way of reality. Call a spade a spade.

What read do you think Eddie Royal was in our offense two years ago? Marshall? Scheffler? You don't think Cutler can make his 2nd and 3rd reads?

Who was the #1, 2, 3 and 4th options in Chicago?

Greg Olsen had 60 catches, Matt Forte and Devin Hester had 57 catches a piece, and Earl Bennett had 54 catches. Johnny Knox had 45 catches as a rookie. Devin Aromashodu had 24 catches as FA journeyman.

How about that for spreading the ball around to different progressions?

You are an idiot, and you prove it every time you post this ignorant stuff. It would make more sense if it was accurate, but it's not.

Knock him for red zone INT's. That may be warranted. Then again, what did he have to work with this year? Where was the balance in the redzone between running and passing? His last two offenses have been terrible running the ball in the red zone. It makes pretty easy for a defense to drop back 7 into coverage inside 30 yards when you know a team is going to have to pass every time. It's not an excuse, it's fact.

azbroncfan
02-06-2010, 05:36 PM
What read do you think Eddie Royal was in our offense two years ago? Marshall? Scheffler? You don't think Cutler can make his 2nd and 3rd reads?

Who was the #1, 2, 3 and 4th options in Chicago?

Greg Olsen had 60 catches, Matt Forte and Devin Hester had 57 catches a piece, and Earl Bennett had 54 catches. Johnny Knox had 45 catches as a rookie. Devin Aromashodu had 24 catches as FA journeyman.

How about that for spreading the ball around to different progressions?

You are an idiot, and you prove it every time you post this ignorant stuff. It would make more sense if it was accurate, but it's not.

Knock him for red zone INT's. That may be warranted. Then again, what did he have to work with this year? Where was the balance in the redzone between running and passing? His last two offenses have been terrible running the ball in the red zone. It makes pretty easy for a defense to drop back 7 into coverage inside 30 yards when you know a team is going to have to pass every time. It's not an excuse, it's fact.

So your saying that in Denver's offense the number 1 progression is always Brandon Marshall? Are you saying the same WR/TE is always the first progression? Say what you want but Cutler does suck at going through his reads. Like I said before he is good for one or two but stuggles after that. In fact he rarely gets past his first because he lets it fly no matter what. Why don't you look up Marshall's targeted balls when he was here. Hmm, I'm an idiot I see. You should just do us all a favor and quit even trying and spend more time on trying to figure out if your going to be a Bears or Redskins fan. I know you want to be a Bears fan but know in your heart your boy is just a step above J. George. Might as well be a skins fan no one here will want you on the boat once it is righted anyway.

elsid13
02-06-2010, 05:40 PM
Cadwell doesn't get enough credit, along with Coyer, with really turning Indy into an excellent defense team. Manning is great, but about 50% of the wins were because of the defense.

TheReverend
02-06-2010, 05:54 PM
I like the ignore function because the people's opinion I care least about are the ones that use it.

What's the use of listening to sheep?

Baaaaaaaa. Baaaaaaaaaaaa.

I lol'd hard

TheReverend
02-06-2010, 05:56 PM
My opinion of him is he hasn't improved since his second season in the league. It is quite obvious to me that Cutler will never be a Manning, Brees, Brady type that can go through multiple progressions and make a good decision. He has lead the league in poor redzone decisions since he entered the league and hasn't improved on it. He locks on to his #1 read and sometimes goes to #2 and throws some terrible off balance prayers. Hard to win with a turnover prone QB in this league. You shouldn't let your masterbation of your Bears Cutler fathead get in the way of reality. Call a spade a spade.

Soooooo... what about breaking franchise records in his 3rd season?

TheReverend
02-06-2010, 05:58 PM
So your saying that in Denver's offense the number 1 progression is always Brandon Marshall? Are you saying the same WR/TE is always the first progression? Say what you want but Cutler does suck at going through his reads. Like I said before he is good for one or two but stuggles after that. In fact he rarely gets past his first because he lets it fly no matter what. Why don't you look up Marshall's targeted balls when he was here. Hmm, I'm an idiot I see. You should just do us all a favor and quit even trying and spend more time on trying to figure out if your going to be a Bears or Redskins fan. I know you want to be a Bears fan but know in your heart your boy is just a step above J. George. Might as well be a skins fan no one here will want you on the boat once it is righted anyway.

Why don't you look up Marshall's targeted balls this season?

And even funnier to the point you're trying to make, why don't you look at the ratio of passes to targets for 08 and 09 towards Brandon?

Marshall's a player, that's why he gets the ball.

azbroncfan
02-06-2010, 09:29 PM
Why don't you look up Marshall's targeted balls this season?

And even funnier to the point you're trying to make, why don't you look at the ratio of passes to targets for 08 and 09 towards Brandon?

Marshall's a player, that's why he gets the ball.

I wasn't comparing Orton to Marshall and I sure as hell wasn't comparing Cutler to Manning. All I was saying is Cutler isn't very good past his first two reads. There aren't a lot of QB's that are but I don't think Cutler is anything more than a glorified Jeff George. As far as Franchise records I could care less about stats. Doesn't Gus F have a record? Plummer tied Elway with another. I could care less about stats get me wins as we all know Elway wasn't the best stat machine.

bpc
02-06-2010, 10:33 PM
So your saying that in Denver's offense the number 1 progression is always Brandon Marshall? Are you saying the same WR/TE is always the first progression? Say what you want but Cutler does suck at going through his reads. Like I said before he is good for one or two but stuggles after that. In fact he rarely gets past his first because he lets it fly no matter what. Why don't you look up Marshall's targeted balls when he was here. Hmm, I'm an idiot I see. You should just do us all a favor and quit even trying and spend more time on trying to figure out if your going to be a Bears or Redskins fan. I know you want to be a Bears fan but know in your heart your boy is just a step above J. George. Might as well be a skins fan no one here will want you on the boat once it is righted anyway.

Thanks for the idiot rant that made no sense, but happened to make you look extremely desperate to get out of this conversation. No explanation needed. Just a weak attempt to call out my fanhood because your argument sucked.

Good job.

TheReverend
02-06-2010, 10:56 PM
I wasn't comparing Orton to Marshall and I sure as hell wasn't comparing Cutler to Manning. All I was saying is Cutler isn't very good past his first two reads. There aren't a lot of QB's that are but I don't think Cutler is anything more than a glorified Jeff George. As far as Franchise records I could care less about stats. Doesn't Gus F have a record? Plummer tied Elway with another. I could care less about stats get me wins as we all know Elway wasn't the best stat machine.

Poor argument, imo, and I like you azbroncfan.

Perhaps it comes down to a diff of opinion. Reality says we'll know for sure in a few years

azbroncfan
02-07-2010, 05:25 AM
Thanks for the idiot rant that made no sense, but happened to make you look extremely desperate to get out of this conversation. No explanation needed. Just a weak attempt to call out my fanhood because your argument sucked.

Good job.

Poor argument for what? I stand by my statement that Cutler sucks at going past two reads. You just threw stats out blah blah blah look at the stats. Still doesn't change the fact that he only goes through two reads and forces the ball. Whatever makes you happy. I made the same argument when he was here in Denver too so it isn't a hating on him except half of the board was still on him as the next Elway.

DarkHorse30
02-07-2010, 08:38 AM
Dungy retired. Shanahan was fired.

....and the situation becomes the same in either event. You have to replace a great coach.

Caldwell came from a great group and should get props for a great season. It's not really like Switzer, because Switzer had Aikman, Emmitt, Irvin, great O-line, great D-line, etc. Barry did absolutely nothing but stand on the sideline with a concerned look on his face.

Caldwell, OTOH, worked a few new WRs in and managed to withstand losing Bob Sanders for more than half of the season. The week before, starting CB Marlin Jackson was put on IR. I figured Indy was done after that news, 7 games in. Peyton Manning LOST a lot of big games with a GREAT team around him, when Dungy was around, so I just can't push off this year as an anomaly. IMO, Caldwell did more with less than any coach in the league. I'm not calling him a great coach, yet, but he appears to knowing exactly what he's doing.

Additionally, Caldwell should get recognition for INTENTIONALLY dropping that game instead of going for the undefeated season. Listen to the interviews of Manning and the other players after that, and they all said "that's what our coach wanted to do" and they didn't apologize for it. Caldwell took the hits on that one; I wonder how many rook HCs could do it. You think an owner wouldn't put a little pressure on to remain undefeated? You think Jerry Jones would have let ANY coach do that? Maybe Polian and Irsay were on Caldwell's page, but I doubt it......too much fandemonium for a team that has the potential to bust that 16-game season cherry.

To me, it's funny because of what happened to the patsies, and because of the cartoon that the miami-shula-undefeated team has become. Caldwell said, "we don't care about being undefeated". The sportswriters were shocked, but the team didn't care, and focused on getting to the championship game. period.