PDA

View Full Version : Toyota ... O come on ...


TDmvp
02-04-2010, 01:35 PM
I just got done hearing this TERRIBLE 911 audio from a group of 4 who died because of a stuck throttle on the news and it was just insane.

It got me thinking about past recalls and besides the Ford rollover I can't think of one this bad ... I mean come on IT'S THE FING gas peddle , you would think that is something you actually get right before it leaves production.

I so hope they get @$$ pounded by lawsuits.


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/03m7fmnhO0I&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/03m7fmnhO0I&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

tsiguy96
02-04-2010, 01:37 PM
cant they put teh car in neutral? sure the engine blows, big deal. guess ive never tried to put a car in neutral mid-throttle.

Flex Gunmetal
02-04-2010, 01:39 PM
Terrible.
I heard those a-holes wouldn't let a guy return his truck he recently bought. He drove it through the front of the store and claimed his pedal got stuck.

TDmvp
02-04-2010, 01:44 PM
cant they put teh car in neutral? sure the engine blows, big deal. guess ive never tried to put a car in neutral mid-throttle.

One. They didn't pay for a new car to have to put it in neutral to avoid death.

Two. Like you said you have never tried to put one in neutral and actually it's pretty hard ... I had a floor mat make mine stick on a pontiac once and getting it into neutral wasn't supper easy.

Three. Most don't know to put it in neutral and in the panic even if they did there is a chance they forget ... they didn't pay 30K or whatever to have to manage the cars issues.



I can handle recalls for simple $hit and some stuff sneaks through any test.
BUT on something like a gas peddle,that we have been making now for what 70+ years ? You would think they would get it right...

tsiguy96
02-04-2010, 01:46 PM
One. They didn't pay for a new car to have to put it in neutral to avoid death.

Two. Like you said you have never tried to put one in neutral and actually it's pretty hard ... I had a floor mat make mine stick on a pontiac once and getting it into neutral wasn't supper easy.

Three. Most don't know to put it in neutral and in the panic even if they did there is a chance they forget ... they didn't pay 30K or whatever to have to manage the cars issues.



I can handle recalls for simple $hit and some stuff sneaks through any test.
BUT on something like a gas peddle,that we have been making now for what 70+ years ? You would think they would get it right...


you act like im defending toyota because they cant get an accelerator right, im clearly not. im talking about this situation where you said 4 people died because it stayed stuck, in this exact case, in order to avoid death is it possible to put a moving car in neutral and just let teh engine blow. if i could stop the car and the brakes woudl not stop it, my first move would be to try and get the car out of gear.

TDmvp
02-04-2010, 01:48 PM
you act like im defending toyota because they cant get an accelerator right, im clearly not.



Not at all .... I even had put a little add on in my post at first saying I'm not disagreeing with you Tsi , but I removed cause I thought my tone was in no way combative ... I know this is the mane and all but everyone isn't always trying to start a fight.

Pony Boy
02-04-2010, 01:49 PM
I have a boat that has an emergency kill switch on the throttle, you would think autos would have something to kill the engine.....

Garcia Bronco
02-04-2010, 01:50 PM
Putting an automatic in neutral while the throttle is stuck is as easy as it gets and I perosnally have never seen an engine blow from it.

Garcia Bronco
02-04-2010, 01:51 PM
Terrible.
I heard those a-holes wouldn't let a guy return his truck he recently bought. He drove it through the front of the store and claimed his pedal got stuck.

Nice! I love thqat kinda ****...as long as it's not me...or I am in the store. :)

TDmvp
02-04-2010, 01:51 PM
I have a boat that has an emergency kill switch on the throttle, you would think autos would have something to kill the engine.....

I HAVE THOUGHT THAT FOR YEARS !!!! ....

Why cars don't have kill switches is beyond me.

So easy to add and hide it would be nothing and shocked this Toyota thing hasn't made more people bring this up... Soon as I heard about this stuff I told my GF I have no idea why cars don't have kill switches like bikes and boats because that would make this so much simpler.

bronco militia
02-04-2010, 01:52 PM
it's a terrible tragedy but..

the driver was an off duty cop and the wife called 911, but neither one thought of putting the vehicle in neutral?

kamakazi_kal
02-04-2010, 01:53 PM
I was reading on MSN yesterday that their have been 20 fatalites in the 20 million cars being recalled. That Ford thing with the SUV tires blowing out killed like 300 or so.

Not saying one is right or wrong but you have a greater chance of being struck by lightning or dying in a plane crash then getting one of these cars.

kamakazi_kal
02-04-2010, 01:54 PM
I HAVE THOUGHT THAT FOR YEARS !!!! ....

Why cars don't have kill switches is beyond me.

So easy to add and hide it would be nothing and shocked this Toyota thing hasn't made more people bring this up... Soon as I heard about this stuff I told my GF I have no idea why cars don't have kill switches like bikes and boats because that would make this so much simpler.

Well I wonder if you kill a car doing 80mph would the engine braking slowdown and loss of power steering cause you to roll lose control or something?

tsiguy96
02-04-2010, 01:57 PM
Well I wonder if you kill a car doing 80mph would the engine braking slowdown and loss of power steering be worse?

it shouldnt kill the whole car, a lot of cars are so fully electronically controlled it may cause an accident. kill power to throttle/ignition/plugs etc anything that actually makes the car move? definitely.

Pony Boy
02-04-2010, 01:59 PM
I HAVE THOUGHT THAT FOR YEARS !!!! ....

Why cars don't have kill switches is beyond me.

So easy to add and hide it would be nothing and shocked this Toyota thing hasn't made more people bring this up... Soon as I heard about this stuff I told my GF I have no idea why cars don't have kill switches like bikes and boats because that would make this so much simpler.

Probably has something to do with losing your brakes and power steering when the engine is cut off but would be simple to have an emergency switch that powered down to idle speed.

kamakazi_kal
02-04-2010, 02:01 PM
Probably has something to do with losing your brakes and power steering when the engine is cut off but would be simple to have an emergency switch that powered down to idle speed.

Any car that has cruse control has the components in place already.

TDmvp
02-04-2010, 02:01 PM
it shouldnt kill the whole car, a lot of cars are so fully electronically controlled it may cause an accident. kill power to throttle/ignition/plugs etc anything that actually makes the car move? definitely.

yupyup , you don't have to kill the whole car I don't think , just disengage the things that make it move. Just a throttle disengage would do.

TDmvp
02-04-2010, 02:02 PM
Any car that has cruse control has the components in place already.

great point.

Pontius Pirate
02-04-2010, 02:03 PM
it's a terrible tragedy but..

the driver was an off duty cop and the wife called 911, but neither one thought of putting the vehicle in neutral?

Maybe there is something in the particular car that prevents it from going into neutral at high speeds? Like when you're going at high speeds most new convertibles prevent you from putting up or taking down the top.

JJJ
02-04-2010, 02:03 PM
I actually had this happen to me a long time ago in high school. There was 7 of us in a big old Ford LTD and the gas pedal broke and got stuck on full throttle on the freeway. I was in back. One guy in front on the floor trying to pull up the gas peddle while the other guy steered and screamed at him while 4 of us were yelling various instructions. It was pure bedlam. The biggest guy was sitting there rocking back and forth mumbling he was going to die.

We got up to around 95 MPH passing people like crazy and driving in the far left margin most of the time with the freeway ending in about a half a mile. The brakes were going and smoking when I finally got some clarity and blurted out "turn off the key". Major backfires but it worked.

We told the drivers dad the long story of our harrowing experience and of course he said we were a bunch of dumbasses and we should have just thrown it in neutral and turned off the key. I went from feeling like a hero to a complete imbical in about 1 second.

Pony Boy
02-04-2010, 02:08 PM
yupyup , you don't have to kill the whole car I don't think , just disengage the things that make it move. Just a throttle disengage would do.

Now that's funny, I think the whole idea is throttle is stuck .....LOL

TDmvp
02-04-2010, 02:14 PM
Now that's funny, I think the whole idea is throttle is stuck .....LOL

You can shut something down that is held wide open / stuck open via computer . So LOL

WolfpackGuy
02-04-2010, 02:16 PM
They should start putting E-stops/kill switches in their vehicles.

My last car was a 2000 Camry. Looks like I luckily snuck by before the trouble.

TailgateNut
02-04-2010, 02:16 PM
It's called a ****ing emergency brake!

Pony Boy
02-04-2010, 02:17 PM
You can shut something down that is held wide open / stuck open via computer

I know ... just messin with ya.... :~ohyah!:

TDmvp
02-04-2010, 02:20 PM
I know ... just messin with ya.... :~ohyah!:

whew I thought I was crazy for a sec ... I don't know much about cars but could have sworn I had seen shows with bait cars where they set them up that just kills the throttle so the crooks can still brake and control wheel.

watermock
02-04-2010, 02:22 PM
cant they put teh car in neutral? sure the engine blows, big deal. guess ive never tried to put a car in neutral mid-throttle.

The car won't blow, they have rev limiters.

mr007
02-04-2010, 02:24 PM
While this is tragic, I kind of feel like it has a place in the Darwin awards.... I mean seriously? You're a cop and you don't know how the F to slow down a car that has the accelerator stuck that's not 350+HP?

Even a wide open throttle can be mitigated with brake and ebrake combo to get yourself to a point where you can crash into something at least somewhat safely. I thought shifting into neutral would be common sense.

Conklin
02-04-2010, 02:26 PM
Know the truth before you post. CTS is the manufacturer of this pedal, not Toyota. CTS is also used by GM, honda, ford, and Chrysler. This is a WEAR problem in which the mechanical portion of the pedal can prematurely wear. This is in cars with close to 100,000 miles or more. Toyota has yet to be able to replicate this problem on a new pedal so thus, it definately was pretty hard to determine that there could be a potential problem until there already was one. Now back to the other car manufacturers, be expecting recalls from them in the very near future now that Toyota has come up with a solution

watermock
02-04-2010, 02:27 PM
I have a boat that has an emergency kill switch on the throttle, you would think autos would have something to kill the engine.....

Killing the engine, you lose power steering and brakes.

mr007
02-04-2010, 02:28 PM
After hearing the call, I have more sympathy, but I still think common sense should have overcome the situation.

Pony Boy
02-04-2010, 02:28 PM
While this is tragic, I kind of feel like it has a place in the Darwin awards.... I mean seriously?

I think this wins the award

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SbX_I_lrmIc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SbX_I_lrmIc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2010, 02:37 PM
Know the truth before you post. CTS is the manufacturer of this pedal, not Toyota. CTS is also used by GM, honda, ford, and Chrysler. This is a WEAR problem in which the mechanical portion of the pedal can prematurely wear. This is in cars with close to 100,000 miles or more. Toyota has yet to be able to replicate this problem on a new pedal so thus, it definately was pretty hard to determine that there could be a potential problem until there already was one. Now back to the other car manufacturers, be expecting recalls from them in the very near future now that Toyota has come up with a solution

bingo.

That's why I love how everyone in the world now that owns a Toyota are all coming out of the woodwork and blaming the pedal anytime they get in an accident now. I saw one guy on the news yesterday try to do it with a 2009 or 2010 Corolla. Sorry buddy. Nice try, but that pedal won't even come close to being a problem for another 5+ years if you drive all the time, and if you are simply one of the few unlucky ones.

Gort
02-04-2010, 02:37 PM
While this is tragic, I kind of feel like it has a place in the Darwin awards.... I mean seriously? You're a cop and you don't know how the F to slow down a car that has the accelerator stuck that's not 350+HP?

Even a wide open throttle can be mitigated with brake and ebrake combo to get yourself to a point where you can crash into something at least somewhat safely. I thought shifting into neutral would be common sense.

shifting to neutral is common sense. and seriously... anyone who wouldn't know to do that shouldn't have a license in the first place. this whole thing is a media trumped up story anyway. i had a CJ-5 once that would occasionally have the accelerator pedal stick. the first time it happened was a surprise, but after 2-3 seconds or so, i realized what was happening and shifted to neutral.

TailgateNut
02-04-2010, 02:41 PM
shifting to neutral is common sense. and seriously... anyone who wouldn't know to do that shouldn't have a license in the first place. this whole thing is a media trumped up story anyway. i had a CJ-5 once that would occasionally have the accelerator pedal stick. the first time it happened was a surprise, but after 2-3 seconds or so, i realized what was happening and shifted to neutral.



...and I had the bleed bands get stuck on my Huey during a top end test flight and we started to autorotate and when I finally figured out what was happening I put it in neutral an we stopped falling.Hilarious!

NYBronco
02-04-2010, 02:43 PM
I had a company provided 2008 Toyota Tacoma and received a "recall" notice about a year ago concerning the stuck accelerator issue. All I was required to do at the time was remove the floor mat from the driver side. I thought it was odd but, I removed the floor mat by unhooking it from the preinstalled floor mounted hooks that keep the mat from slipping forward to the pedals. The notice also mentioned that additional "recall" information would be coming for further action. I didn't receive any additional recall information because I had to give the truck up sometime last August.

ColoradoDarin
02-04-2010, 02:44 PM
shifting to neutral is common sense. and seriously... anyone who wouldn't know to do that shouldn't have a license in the first place. this whole thing is a media trumped up story anyway. i had a CJ-5 once that would occasionally have the accelerator pedal stick. the first time it happened was a surprise, but after 2-3 seconds or so, i realized what was happening and shifted to neutral.

My old Nissan Pulsar did that a couple of times too. Push in clutch (yay sticks!), jab repeatedly on accelerator until it unstuck, back into gear and off we go.

Gort
02-04-2010, 02:47 PM
...and I had the bleed bands get stuck on my Huey during a top end test flight and we started to autorotate and when I finally figured out what was happening I put it in neutral an we stopped falling.Hilarious!

and your point is... helicopter = car? cause i'm confused.

TailgateNut
02-04-2010, 02:49 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FT07_JbnKWQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FT07_JbnKWQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

TailgateNut
02-04-2010, 02:50 PM
and your point is... helicopter = car? cause i'm confused.


Never mind!:rofl:


I'm sure some people will "get it".:~ohyah!:

ColoradoDarin
02-04-2010, 02:50 PM
and your point is... helicopter = car? cause i'm confused.

His helicopter is black, and it's outside your window right now.

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 02:52 PM
I'm very sorrry for the people who were injured or killed because of this, but I'm having a great timne laughing at Toyota-couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. Now the Prius is being recalled-pure comedy-Hilarious!

mr007
02-04-2010, 02:55 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FT07_JbnKWQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FT07_JbnKWQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I feel a lot better about thinking what a retard this guy must have been now, thanks.

Conklin
02-04-2010, 02:56 PM
I'm very sorrry for the people who were injured or killed because of this, but I'm having a great timne laughing at Toyota-couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. Now the Prius is being recalled-pure comedy-Hilarious!

once again, MISINFORMED!!! the Prius is NOT RECALLED!!! the guy starting this fight is a former lawyer employee that is a bit upset his contract was terminated.

Gort
02-04-2010, 02:57 PM
I'm very sorrry for the people who were injured or killed because of this, but I'm having a great timne laughing at Toyota-couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. Now the Prius is being recalled-pure comedy-Hilarious!

i agree. sad that people died. but understanding WHAT neutral is and WHERE it is on the gearshift is pretty fundamental to understanding the basic functionality of a car. anyone who doesn't know the basics really shouldn't be allowed to have a license until they do.

Flex Gunmetal
02-04-2010, 03:01 PM
Killing the engine, you lose power steering and brakes.

No, thats ignition.

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 03:08 PM
once again, MISINFORMED!!! the Prius is NOT RECALLED!!! the guy starting this fight is a former lawyer employee that is a bit upset his contract was terminated.

Oops, you are correct, however "Toyota earlier Thursday acknowledged design problems with the brakes in its prized gas-electric hybrid, but said it was still deciding how to inform customers and whether a recall is needed"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35214248/ns/business-autos/

watermock
02-04-2010, 03:31 PM
No, thats ignition.

Jesus.

Conklin
02-04-2010, 03:34 PM
Oops, you are correct, however "Toyota earlier Thursday acknowledged design problems with the brakes in its prized gas-electric hybrid, but said it was still deciding how to inform customers and whether a recall is needed"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35214248/ns/business-autos/

There is a minor delay when transitioning from electric to gas, there is no hesitation in brakes. This is just the media piling it on Toyota while its down. Nothing to see here, Move on!

Pony Boy
02-04-2010, 03:35 PM
Jesus.

No, it's "Jesus Take the Wheel"

Rabb
02-04-2010, 03:37 PM
just to play devil's advocate, not everyone thinks clearly in a pressure (in this case life/death) situation, especially with people in the car likely panicking and making it worse

him being a cop you would think he could think clearly (he sounded like it) but still, everyone can say how easy it would be to do something until you actually find yourself in that situation

hell I am pretty cool in stressful situations but if my old lady was next to me in that scenario I guarantee she would be going bat**** crazy, making me a little more nervous

JJJ
02-04-2010, 03:44 PM
just to play devil's advocate, not everyone thinks clearly in a pressure (in this case life/death) situation, especially with people in the car likely panicking and making it worse

him being a cop you would think he could think clearly (he sounded like it) but still, everyone can say how easy it would be to do something until you actually find yourself in that situation

hell I am pretty cool in stressful situations but if my old lady was next to me in that scenario I guarantee she would be going bat**** crazy, making me a little more nervous

That is it exactly. And having mutliple people in the car makes it much worse because everyone starts yelling, believe me. When you start racing past cars like they are standing still you first focus on avoidance and not the logical thing of getting the car shut down.

watermock
02-04-2010, 03:55 PM
All I know is that '86 Celica only had 4k on it and the accellorator went to THE FLOOR, beyond my input. It was scary. and that's 25 years ago, so it's nothing new, but I would drive 1000 toys a year, and that is the only one that did it.

I did drive the piss out of it. Never buy a demo.

BTW, those had the same driveline as a 4 cyl Camry.

ksBRONCOfan
02-04-2010, 03:55 PM
I've never had my throttle stuck, but have had the shifter get shifted to neutral on me and it wasn't difficult and I started to slow down immediately. I've had my brakes fail on me twice and managed to stop the vehicle without dying.

One statement I've always gone by is "It is a mechanical device and a mechanical device can fail."

Maybe we make it too easy to get a license in the US (here in Kansas for sure). I could ace the drivers test here on my worst day. I know in Germany you have to spend a lot of money and time on training to get a license. Maybe we should make sure people are more capable behind a wheel before they are allowed to drive.

Killericon
02-04-2010, 03:56 PM
One time I was driving to school(I was only 16 at the time) and I ran out of gas at the top of the hill leading into town, and without power brakes or power steering, I coasted down the hill, in control, and made it on momentum to the gas pump. Anyways, if my stupid 16 year old ass could handle that, then I don't think losing power steering/brakes is that bad.

Then again, I was driving my '98 Toyota 4Runner, so it's not like it was a terribly advanced car.

Flex Gunmetal
02-04-2010, 04:16 PM
Jesus.

Yes, my son?

sixtimeseight
02-04-2010, 04:47 PM
I'm very sorrry for the people who were injured or killed because of this, but I'm having a great timne laughing at Toyota-couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. Now the Prius is being recalled-pure comedy-Hilarious!

The funniest thing about this post (other than the fact that I didn't realize people like you could even manage to turn on a computer) is that the faulty parts were manufactured in the U.S.

watermock
02-04-2010, 04:54 PM
There are serious questions that it may be a computer problem connected with electomagnetic cellphone energy.

Whatever, my Celica didn't just stick, it floored itself, beyond manual input.

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 04:56 PM
The funniest thing about this post (other than the fact that I didn't realize people like you could even manage to turn on a computer) is that the faulty parts were manufactured in the U.S.

So, what you are saying is that Toyota doesn't have quality control (as they DESIGNED the Pedal)? They don't check their Vendors' supplied parts for quality, function and safety? Figures. By the way, CTS manufactures Pedals for many AMERICAN cars also and I don't see any Throttle recalls on them-by the way, I wonder, do YOU drive a Toyota by chance?

And yes, I do know where the little button is to turn on my Computer-thanks for your concern though-;D

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 04:57 PM
There are serious questions that it may be a computer problem connected with electomagnetic cellphone energy.

Whatever, my Celica didn't just stick, it floored itself, beyond manual input.

The difference here Mock, is that you Celica wasn't drive-by-wire-

watermock
02-04-2010, 05:03 PM
Not sure, but it was new genation. '86 was a whole new generation for Camry and Celica.

In fact, I don't think they are true drive by wire even now.

I think your full of it and it still has linkage.

watermock
02-04-2010, 05:15 PM
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249028

I dunno, I assumed they still had linkage and the computer handled the valve timing and induction.

DenverBrit
02-04-2010, 05:19 PM
cant they put teh car in neutral? sure the engine blows, big deal. guess ive never tried to put a car in neutral mid-throttle.

Neutral is the first step, then applying the brakes is the second.
Seems so obvious, I wonder why the driver chose to make a phone call instead of doing the obvious.

I wouldn't worry about the engine blowing, it shouldn't, but if it did, it's a better outcome than a crash at 90mph..

watermock
02-04-2010, 05:24 PM
There is a rev limiter.

The engine won't blow up, and it it does, so what as long as you get it pulled over and stopped.

azbroncfan
02-04-2010, 05:27 PM
I had a bad spring on my throttle on an old truck and it stuck on me once and I just turned the key off. Not sure if you can do that with a new car though.

watermock
02-04-2010, 05:35 PM
I never sold toys when they had hooks to hold the floormats in place.

That's a new one to me.

All I know is that Celica FLOORED itself, beyond my input, and it wasn't on cruise.

watermock
02-04-2010, 05:38 PM
I had a bad spring on my throttle on an old truck and it stuck on me once and I just turned the key off. Not sure if you can do that with a new car though.

All I can say is shift to N, then bang on the throttle.

lostknight
02-04-2010, 05:41 PM
Sorry, the Prius braking issue is the third major brake/stopping related issue for Toyota in a year. That, combined with their repeated lying to the press (this was in no way a voluntary recall, and they stonewalled the US DoT for a year on this) make me swear off them for a while.

Conklin
02-04-2010, 05:51 PM
So, what you are saying is that Toyota doesn't have quality control (as they DESIGNED the Pedal)? They don't check their Vendors' supplied parts for quality, function and safety? Figures. By the way, CTS manufactures Pedals for many AMERICAN cars also and I don't see any Throttle recalls on them-by the way, I wonder, do YOU drive a Toyota by chance?

And yes, I do know where the little button is to turn on my Computer-thanks for your concern though-;D


I'll repeat again. TOYOTA has been UNABLE TO REPLICATE THIS PROBLEM!!! this is an issue of dirt, grime, and god knows what else getting deposited on the mechanical part of the floor pedal over a prolonged period of time that has caused a VERY rare number to become stuck at low rpms. This is something that couldnt have been tested.

Neutral is the first step, then applying the brakes is the second.
Seems so obvious, I wonder why the driver chose to make a phone call instead of doing the obvious.

I wouldn't worry about the engine blowing, it shouldn't, but if it did, it's a better outcome than a crash at 90mph..

Toyota's have a rev limiter that will shut the engine off after a few seconds of high revs if the car is in park or neutral

watermock
02-04-2010, 05:59 PM
I'll repeat again. TOYOTA has been UNABLE TO REPLICATE THIS PROBLEM!!! this is an issue of dirt, grime, and god knows what else getting deposited on the mechanical part of the floor pedal over a prolonged period of time that has caused a VERY rare number to become stuck at low rpms. This is something that couldnt have been tested.



Wrong. Tell me this is a low RPM problem.

Please do.

Moron.

And I think Toyata's are great vehicles.

The problem is, I don't think they are even sure what is the cause.

And it isn't from lack of concern. They build great cars.

Bronx33
02-04-2010, 06:26 PM
Couldn't they just turn it off with the key?

watermock
02-04-2010, 06:34 PM
No, you lose brake and steering.

PUT IN NEUTRAL.

ksBRONCOfan
02-04-2010, 06:40 PM
What a driver should do if the accelerator sticks

AP - Wednesday, January 27, 2010 10:40:46
By The Associated Press

Toyota Motor Corp. has stopped selling and building eight models, saying there's a possibility that their accelerator pedals may get stuck in a partially depressed position or return slowly to the idle position. The automaker and experts have advice for drivers if a vehicle's accelerator pedal sticks:

BASIC ADVICE:

Consumer Reports magazine's instructions is simple: First, brake hard. Then put the car in neutral. When you come to a stop, turn off the engine.

The engine may keep revving loudly while you try to stop, but don't turn it off if you can avoid it. Turning off the engine means you lose power-assisted steering and brakes, and if you turn the key too far, you could lock the steering wheel.

The revving isn't good for the transmission, but that's not important, said John Heywood, director of MIT's Sloan Automotive Lab.

Consumer Reports has a video demonstration on its Web site at http://tinyurl.com/yegvesp

DON'T PUMP THE BRAKES. PRESS FIRMLY AND STEADILY.

Toyota warns that pumping the brake pedal will deplete the vacuum assist, which boosts the braking force using power from the engine. If that's depleted, you'll need to put much stronger pressure on the brake pedal, and it still might not be enough force to stop safely.

"If the engine really goes to wide open throttle it's really scary," Heywood said. "You have to jam your foot on the brake really hard."

IF ALL ELSE FAILS, TURN OFF THE ENGINE.

If you can't put the vehicle in neutral, then turn the engine off. This will not cause loss of steering or braking control, but the power assist to these systems will be lost.


Sources: Toyota documents, Consumer Reports, AP interviews

http://www.mail.com/Article.aspx/money/business/APNews/General-Business/20100127/U_Toyota-If-It-Happens-to-You?pageid=1

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 06:43 PM
I'll repeat again. TOYOTA has been UNABLE TO REPLICATE THIS PROBLEM!!! this is an issue of dirt, grime, and god knows what else getting deposited on the mechanical part of the floor pedal over a prolonged period of time that has caused a VERY rare number to become stuck at low rpms. This is something that couldnt have been tested.

Please, we continue with this line of misinformation and this will not go well. So what you are saying is that Toyota is the only Automobile Company that has a problem with dirt and grime and "god knows what else" on a drive-by-wire Throttle system (and, yes it is Mock!)? Better not mention that to the Ford, Dodge and GM owners who take their 4X4's off road and get them muddy (they are also drive-by-wire-I own two of them), or the Law Enforcement Officers who use the Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptors, and continually get in and out fo them with muddy feet (and they put on more than 100K on those Cars)-there are many Vehicles made today the use drive-by-wire, this isn't a Toyota thing.

Now, COULD this problem occur to a Ford, GM or a Dodge/Chrysler/Fiat product? Of course it could, but that was not the reason I am happy about it-I'm happy because the mighty Toyota Motor Company is taking it in the shorts! Maybe they saved another AMERICAN JOB unknowingly with this, ahem, "recall"-

Dudeskey
02-04-2010, 06:48 PM
I just got done hearing this TERRIBLE 911 audio from a group of 4 who died because of a stuck throttle on the news and it was just insane.

It got me thinking about past recalls and besides the Ford rollover I can't think of one this bad ... I mean come on IT'S THE FING gas peddle , you would think that is something you actually get right before it leaves production.

I so hope they get @$$ pounded by lawsuits.


I remember the Ford rollover, the driver was stoned @ the time of the wreck, but for some reason Ford wasn't allowed to use that in court.

From a PR standpoint, Toyota's ****ing up in a lot of the same ways Ford did during the whole Firestone debacle. More computer **** to **** things up of course. They need to take a page out of the Tylenol scare in the 80's. Tylenol went out and handled that well from a PR standpoint.

Anyway, most these newer cars have drive by wire system, so there's no throttle cable. What befuddles me here is why nobody thinks to just put the ****er in neutral (or push in the clutch) then stop the car. These have rev limiters, so you aren't going to blow the engine. But this brings it back to Toyota's bang up job on the PR side.

watermock
02-04-2010, 06:49 PM
DON'T turn the engine off, these motors will run at 10,000 rpm, but the throttle will only let tham go to 7k.

They lose the belts a 8,9/1000.

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 06:50 PM
"The Times also reports complaints of unintended acceleration increased after Toyota began using its drive-by-wire system in 2002, starting with the ES 300."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2010/112_1001_toyota_recall_crisis/los_angeles_times_report.html#ixzz0ecdJ5ztN

Dudeskey
02-04-2010, 06:58 PM
"The Times also reports complaints of unintended acceleration increased after Toyota began using its drive-by-wire system in 2002, starting with the ES 300."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2010/112_1001_toyota_recall_crisis/los_angeles_times_report.html#ixzz0ecdJ5ztN

Honda runs the same system on most their cars and yet no issues. My guess is Toyota's using a cheaper, ****tier supplier for these throttle systems.

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 07:00 PM
Personally, I wonder if maybe they are having a software problem in the ECU-

watermock
02-04-2010, 07:01 PM
I think that Gaffney should write a book about this.

Sound's like a CIA move.

Bronx33
02-04-2010, 07:02 PM
DON'T turn the engine off, these motors will run at 10,000 rpm, but the throttle will only let tham go to 7k.

They lose the belts a 8,9/1000.

I don't mean shut if off when they were going 120mph but when the throttle first got stuck iam kinda amazed they let the car get going that fast and only managed to make a phone call.

watermock
02-04-2010, 07:04 PM
I don't mean shut if off when they were going 120mph but when the throttle first got stuck iam kinda amazed they let the car get going that fast and only managed to make a phone call.

'Yeah, grab the cell phone.

ksBRONCOfan
02-04-2010, 07:04 PM
Lowest Vehicle Deaths Per Million Vehicles
Chevrolet Astro: minivan very large 7
Infiniti G35: luxury car midsize 11
BMW 7 Series: luxury car very large 11
Toyota 4Runner: 4WD SUV midsize 13
Audi A4/S4 Quattro: 4dr car midsize 14
Mercedes E-Class: luxury car large 14
Toyota Highlander: 4WD SUV midsize 14
Mercedes M-Class: 4WD SUV midsize 14
Toyota Sienna: minivan very large 17
Honda Odyssey: minivan very large 17
Lexus ES 330: luxury car midsize 18
Lexus RX 330: 2WD SUV midsize 18
Toyota Sequoia: 2WD SUV large 18
Honda Pilot: 4WD SUV midsize 19
BMW X5: 4WD SUV midsize 19

Highest Vehicle Deaths Per Million Vehicles
Chevrolet Blazer: 2dr 2WD SUV midsize 232
Acura RSX: 2dr car small 202
Nissan 350Z: sports car midsize 193
Kia Spectra: hatchback 4dr car small 191
Pontiac Sunfire: 2dr car small 179
Kia Rio: 4dr car mini 175
Chevrolet Cavalier: 2dr car small 171
Mitsubishi Eclipse: 2dr car small 169
Dodge Neon: 4dr car small 161
Pontiac Grand Am: 2dr car midsize 160
Chevrolet Cavalier: 4dr car small 150
Ford Mustang: sports car midsize 150
Ford Ranger: 4WD pickup small 150
Mazda B Series: 2WD pickup small 147
Mitsubishi Eclipse: convertible sports car small 146
Mitsubishi Montero: Sport 2WD SUV midsize 146

http://www.leftlanenews.com/iihs-study-reveals-deadliest-vehicles.html

DarkHorse
02-04-2010, 07:09 PM
Putting an automatic in neutral while the throttle is stuck is as easy as it gets and I perosnally have never seen an engine blow from it.


This.

On 100% of the automatic transmission vehicles out there Neutral is one click up from the OD gear selection.

My mustang is still easy and it has a reverse manual valve body w/ a neutral lockout lever.


In no way defending Toyota, i'm simply commenting on the ease of the actual motion finding Neutral. Should they have to? Depends on your thinking. I like to think that I teach my wife and 2 kids that drive exactly how to operate a motor vehicle so that, God forbid, in the event of an emergency they know exactly how a car operates. In my family i'll admit it differs because we build hobby race cars, the wife and kids work on them so their understanding gets kinda technical.

Car manufacturer cannot help you in the middle of a runaway car so you should always know the basics.

tsiguy96
02-04-2010, 07:10 PM
that really makes you wonder if buying a small vehicle is a smart thing.

watermock
02-04-2010, 07:21 PM
On 100% of the automatic transmission vehicles out there Neutral is one click up from the OD gear selection.



You can't discount panic, but c'mon.

My brother had a 482 69 SS nova at 18 w./3.78 gears and a holly deepthroat.

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 07:24 PM
My brother had a 482 69 SS nova at 18 w./3.78 gears and a holly deepthroat.

Could you possibly mean a Holley double pumper?

watermock
02-04-2010, 07:27 PM
Yeah, ****er twisted off the line.

He blew up the 396/375 outrunning the cops.

The 482 was going to be a special corvette engine that was scrapped. He bought it off hot rod magazine.

crazyhorse
02-04-2010, 07:33 PM
DON'T turn the engine off, these motors will run at 10,000 rpm, but the throttle will only let tham go to 7k.

They lose the belts a 8,9/1000.

Any engine with drive by wire also has a rev limiter, and many that dont have DBW as well.

They will run "wide open throttle" for plenty of time to get a car stopped and the ignition shut off with no internal or external engine damage.

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 07:34 PM
Yeah, ****er twisted off the line.

He blew up the 396/375 outrunning the cops.

The 482 was going to be a special corvette engine that was scrapped. He bought it off hot rod magazine.

Cool, I'm right now building a 540 BBC (Eagle forged Stroker Crank and Rods, ported AFR Heads/Cam, ported Victor Jr. Intake, a Holley 950 Ultra Carb/etc. -should make aboiut 700 h.p.), for my '35 Ford 5 Window Coupe-

crazyhorse
02-04-2010, 07:38 PM
that really makes you wonder if buying a small vehicle is a smart thing.

I would classify the second list as teenager cars.

crazyhorse
02-04-2010, 07:40 PM
Cool, I'm right now building a 540 BBC (Eagle forged Stroker Crank and Rods, ported AFR Heads/Cam, ported Victor Jr. Intake, a Holley 950 Ultra Carb/etc. -should make aboiut 700 h.p.), for my '35 Ford 5 Window Coupe-

Depending on exhaust, that carb might be too big. Maybe not 540 is pretty big.

On my mustang the carb is 750 cfm, and the exhaust is 722. It has fantasic flow characteristics and very snappy throttle response. Its like flipping a light switch.

El Minion
02-04-2010, 07:44 PM
Lowest Vehicle Deaths Per Million Vehicles
Chevrolet Astro: minivan very large 7
Infiniti G35: luxury car midsize 11
BMW 7 Series: luxury car very large 11
Toyota 4Runner: 4WD SUV midsize 13
Audi A4/S4 Quattro: 4dr car midsize 14
Mercedes E-Class: luxury car large 14
Toyota Highlander: 4WD SUV midsize 14
Mercedes M-Class: 4WD SUV midsize 14
Toyota Sienna: minivan very large 17
Honda Odyssey: minivan very large 17
Lexus ES 330: luxury car midsize 18
Lexus RX 330: 2WD SUV midsize 18
Toyota Sequoia: 2WD SUV large 18
Honda Pilot: 4WD SUV midsize 19
BMW X5: 4WD SUV midsize 19

Highest Vehicle Deaths Per Million Vehicles
Chevrolet Blazer: 2dr 2WD SUV midsize 232
Acura RSX: 2dr car small 202
Nissan 350Z: sports car midsize 193
Kia Spectra: hatchback 4dr car small 191
Pontiac Sunfire: 2dr car small 179
Kia Rio: 4dr car mini 175
Chevrolet Cavalier: 2dr car small 171
Mitsubishi Eclipse: 2dr car small 169
Dodge Neon: 4dr car small 161
Pontiac Grand Am: 2dr car midsize 160
Chevrolet Cavalier: 4dr car small 150
Ford Mustang: sports car midsize 150
Ford Ranger: 4WD pickup small 150
Mazda B Series: 2WD pickup small 147
Mitsubishi Eclipse: convertible sports car small 146
Mitsubishi Montero: Sport 2WD SUV midsize 146

http://www.leftlanenews.com/iihs-study-reveals-deadliest-vehicles.html

I wonder how much it change if was per mile driven per vehicle, luxury vehicles by their very nature are fewer and safer than the regular Joe's car.

watermock
02-04-2010, 07:47 PM
I think my brother's was an 850.

LONG time ago, but my nephew still has it.

I does have history

I had a Lemans 400 that wound up winning in Jackson Mn.

I wish
i could get back it that.

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 07:49 PM
Depending on exhaust, that carb might be too big.


Nice to talk to another Car nut, and I hope you are doing well! No, it has Sanderson 1 7/8 Headers, and 3" Exhaust-do you know Joe Sherman? He is a renowned Engine Builder in California (he won the first Engine Masters Challenge)-he's building it for me, and actually wanted me to use a 1050 Dominator and a regular Victor Intake! The Heads are CNC ported 325cc AFR's (they flow 380cc's), and Joe Sherman and Tony Mamo (he's AFR's top guy) designed if together-I just need to do my part and get the rest of the Car done!

watermock
02-04-2010, 07:54 PM
Is the beast street legal tho?

slyinky
02-04-2010, 08:01 PM
I feel a lot better about thinking what a retard this guy must have been now, thanks.

You stay classy San Diego... Did you find time to cruise over to Chula Vista for the memorial and express your thoughts? A memorial for 4 people, including the 13 year old daughter of the retard?

crazyhorse
02-04-2010, 08:03 PM
Nice to talk to another Car nut, and I hope you are doing well! No, it has Sanderson 1 7/8 Headers, and 3" Exhaust-do you know Joe Sherman? He is a renowned Engine Builder in California (he won the first Engine Masters Challenge)-he's building it for me, and actually wanted me to use a 1050 Dominator and a regular Victor Intake! The Heads are CNC ported 325cc AFR's (they flow 380cc's), and Joe Sherman and Tony Mamo (he's AFR's top guy) designed if together-I just need to do my part and get the rest of the Car done!

Sounds like it'll flow.

Post some pics when you get a chance.

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 08:06 PM
Is the beast street legal tho?

Yes, it will be-this is the first 700 h.p. street Car i"ve ever had, and I'm quite excited about it=here's a picture from about a Year ago-it's on the Frame now, but I chopped the Top, and did a bunch of custom work to it

http://i49.tinypic.com/2v2jiw0.jpg

crazyhorse
02-04-2010, 08:13 PM
Very cool project.

watermock
02-04-2010, 08:15 PM
Meh...

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 08:16 PM
Very cool project.

Thank you very much for the compliment, it means something coming from you-sorry the picure is so big (I'm not good at that)and that I hi-jacked this Thread-you all can now return to your regularly scheduled broadcast-

Flex Gunmetal
02-04-2010, 08:23 PM
Meh...

Clearly you should be concerned, mock disapproves.

ColoradoDarin
02-04-2010, 08:23 PM
Infiniti G35: luxury car midsize – 11
Nissan 350Z: sports car midsize – 193

Aren't these the same car?

Then it's not the car, it's the driver.

watermock
02-04-2010, 08:23 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_i_AovfzNXgQ/SY8rz8KK6nI/AAAAAAAApFM/iZTdhuBi3k0/s400/et.jpg

Funny, I hated that car, but man was it fast.

The 400 was faster.

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 08:26 PM
Clearly you should be concerned, mock disapproves.

I am-with as much as I really like Mock (even though he calls me names), this is really a setback-I am considering scrapping the entire Project and moving to lower Slobovia-

Flex Gunmetal
02-04-2010, 08:27 PM
Aren't these the same car?

Then it's not the car, it's the driver.

Guts are pretty close. Not entirely sure.

Flex Gunmetal
02-04-2010, 08:28 PM
I am-with as much as I really like Mock (even though he calls me names), this is really a setback-I am considering scrapping the entire Project and moving to lower Slobovia-

I am arranging a mass suicide for those scorned by mock. We're going to drink concrete until everyone has passed on to a higher state of consciousness.

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 08:29 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_i_AovfzNXgQ/SY8rz8KK6nI/AAAAAAAApFM/iZTdhuBi3k0/s400/et.jpg

Funny, I hated that car, but man was it fast.

The 400 was faster.

Hey, I blew the Engine up in one of those on my Senior Prom night (it was a Convertible GTO of the same Year though)-don't ask for details=

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 08:30 PM
I am arranging a mass suicide for those scorned by mock. We're going to drink concrete until everyone has passed on to a higher state of consciousness.

Sign me up=where do I stand?

watermock
02-04-2010, 08:32 PM
It's funny, I alwas felt mimimized. My brothers has 396's with Hursts, all I got were Cutlass Supremes with 350's.

Flex Gunmetal
02-04-2010, 08:33 PM
Sign me up=where do I stand?

On the road in jefferson tunnel at rush hour. I mean, if you are really with us.

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 08:34 PM
It's funny, I alwas felt mimimized. My brothers has 396's with Hursts, all I got were Cutlass Supremes with 350's.

Hey man, I've seen some nice Cutlass=after all, weren't those called a "Rocket 350"?

bronclvr
02-04-2010, 08:36 PM
On the road in jefferson tunnel at rush hour. I mean, if you are really with us.


Just say the Date and Time-I assume it's BYOF (Bring your Own Funnel)?

Flex Gunmetal
02-04-2010, 08:37 PM
12/12/12
I know, I know. It will come a lot sooner than you think.












































(thats what she said)

watermock
02-04-2010, 08:44 PM
Hey man, I've seen some nice Cutlass=after all, weren't those called a "Rocket 350"?

I wrecked a 71 sport my missing a curve in a nature reserve and bouning into a tree out of a corfield.

Then I was given a gold 72 salon with white velour interior and cragars.

I launched it over a jump and sunk the frame. Doh!

azbroncfan
02-04-2010, 08:48 PM
I am-with as much as I really like Mock (even though he calls me names), this is really a setback-I am considering scrapping the entire Project and moving to lower Slobovia-

It's okay the rot gut and bad peanut butter have gotten to him so you have to take it with a grain of salt not grain of barley. I am sure you know that already though.

azbroncfan
02-04-2010, 08:49 PM
I wrecked a 71 sport my missing a curve in a nature reserve and bouning into a tree out of a corfield.

Then I was given a gold 72 salon with white velour interior and cragars.

I launched it over a jump and sunk the frame. Doh!

How much booze was involved in those incidents?

watermock
02-04-2010, 08:54 PM
I haven't wrecked a car in 25 years.

Prodigal19
02-04-2010, 09:06 PM
http://i.imgur.com/UyY5v.png

SoCalBronco
02-04-2010, 09:50 PM
I have a 2007 Toyota Camry and am very worried about this as that's one of the cars that may have this problem. I called these people...they said I'll be getting a letter soon re: repair (although I havent had any problems yet...there's only 9k miles on the car, I don't use it except on the weekends, as I use my company car to work and back).

I'm really starting to get worried about it, though.

SportinOne
02-04-2010, 10:35 PM
i'm not reading through 5 pages.

1. Put the car in neutral.
2. Use the breaks to slow down (hey!).
3. Pull over in a safe spot and shut the car off.

Or is that playing god?

crazyhorse
02-04-2010, 11:00 PM
i'm not reading through 5 pages.

1. Put the car in neutral.
2. Use the breaks to slow down (hey!).
3. Pull over in a safe spot and shut the car off.

Or is that playing god?

This would work in most cases.

However, say you're pulling up to an intersection and the thing takes off on you. By the time you react, you're in the cross traffic. Not all situations would allow you the time to safely remedy a runaway car. It's not only dangerous for you to drive, but could potentially take someone elses life. I realize that not all people that are crashing, had to crash. Some could have prevented it. Bottom line is, get out of these cars and get them fixed before more people die. It's not just Toyotas responsibility at this point. It's the owners responsibility as well.

Another senario would be: you're in a sharp turn on a twisting road and it takes off. It could put you into the other lane where you meet someone head on. Or it could put you off the road and down the mountain.

Conklin
02-04-2010, 11:51 PM
This would work in most cases.

However, say you're pulling up to an intersection and the thing takes off on you. By the time you react, you're in the cross traffic. Not all situations would allow you the time to safely remedy a runaway car. It's not only dangerous for you to drive, but could potentially take someone elses life. I realize that not all people that are crashing, had to crash. Some could have prevented it. Bottom line is, get out of these cars and get them fixed before more people die. It's not just Toyotas responsibility at this point. It's the owners responsibility as well.

Another senario would be: you're in a sharp turn on a twisting road and it takes off. It could put you into the other lane where you meet someone head on. Or it could put you off the road and down the mountain.

it is sticking @ 3k rpms, not enough to do those scenarios, now the floormat issue could cause those. then again, who's dumb enough to stack a floor mat on top of another floormat?

mr007
02-05-2010, 12:15 AM
You stay classy San Diego... Did you find time to cruise over to Chula Vista for the memorial and express your thoughts? A memorial for 4 people, including the 13 year old daughter of the retard?

People die from stupid things all the time. The situation sucks, it doesn't change the fact.

crazyhorse
02-05-2010, 04:54 AM
it is sticking @ 3k rpms, not enough to do those scenarios, now the floormat issue could cause those. then again, who's dumb enough to stack a floor mat on top of another floormat?

1st I've heard of the 3000 rpm only thing. But even if true, both senarios could still happen at 3000 rpm. Especially in a 4 banger.

Those are just a couple instances off the top of my head. I am sure there are situations where you dont have time driving a car, to excersize additional procedures to get a car stopped. Sometimes it's all you can do to get stopped when everything is working correctly.

Hogan11
02-05-2010, 08:07 AM
Nothing wrong with the Toyota I own.....I'm sticking with them (no pun intended).

cutthemdown
02-05-2010, 01:10 PM
you act like im defending toyota because they cant get an accelerator right, im clearly not. im talking about this situation where you said 4 people died because it stayed stuck, in this exact case, in order to avoid death is it possible to put a moving car in neutral and just let teh engine blow. if i could stop the car and the brakes woudl not stop it, my first move would be to try and get the car out of gear.

I thought same thing. ****ty the car malfunctioned but if you have time to call 9-11 why not just turn car off and go without power steering, or throw it in neutral. Sounds like driver panicked.

UberBroncoMan
02-05-2010, 04:47 PM
That call makes me sick to my stomach.

Didn't go through the thread so I don't know if this was posted.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FT07_JbnKWQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FT07_JbnKWQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Might have saved their lives... panic does wonders to a psyche though.