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View Full Version : Offense, better or worse under McD?


LonghornBronco
02-03-2010, 01:09 PM
The argument over how successful the offense was in 08 is a hard one to settle. So I looked at the stats from a different perspective. yards per play, and 3rd down efficiency. I think these two stats above the others really isolates the offense from the team stats such as points per game, as much as could be. It turns out Denver was second in the league in both these stats. While this season we were 15th and 22nd respectively.

Invariably I have to side with the McD bashers and say the offense has taken a step back. But, as is sometimes the case when you change system/philosophy(sp?) you can expect that. I'd say this comming year will tells us alot about the so called offensive genius.

PRBronco
02-03-2010, 01:14 PM
It most certainly took a step back, that's what happens with new coaches (exept Jim Caldwell lol). He has a different system he wants to run, and one offseason wasnt' enough time to implement it (let's hope 2 is).

NFLBRONCO
02-03-2010, 01:16 PM
It took steps back yes but, geez 1st yr of a new system unhappy players . Old system was in place ask us this in 2 yrs. Our better offense was way overrated in my ways.

oubronco
02-03-2010, 01:18 PM
The 08' offense was set if we would've gotten a stud RB and could explode in a second and the young guys were explosive

The 09' offense was dull and bland with all the bubble screens and 3-5 yd passes and all the young players regressed

You make the call

Flex Gunmetal
02-03-2010, 01:22 PM
Offensive PPG
2008: 23.1
2009: 20.4

Not an earth-shattering falloff.

kamakazi_kal
02-03-2010, 01:23 PM
Is boring a stat?

TDmvp
02-03-2010, 01:24 PM
Is boring a stat?

LOL damn you LOL ... I was in the middle of posting the same thing :O)

HAT
02-03-2010, 01:24 PM
Sometimes you gotta take one step back to go two steps forward....

TDmvp
02-03-2010, 01:25 PM
All I know is if I have to watch many more bubble screens I'm going to punch a baby :O) BM you can eat it after.

kamakazi_kal
02-03-2010, 01:26 PM
All I know is if I have to watch many more bubble screens I'm going to punch a baby :O) BM you can eat it after.

punch for the throat .... I hear that's acceptable on the mane.

Flex Gunmetal
02-03-2010, 01:27 PM
I will take PPG over YPP and 3rd% all day.

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2010, 01:31 PM
Worse

cmhargrove
02-03-2010, 01:33 PM
I'm ready to say this year (2010) and next (2011) will be the determining factors if we will ever be an "offensive juggernaut" like the undefeated Patriots squad under McDaniels.

To be fair, he was trying to work a square hole into a round peg last year. Dennison is a tremendous coach at what he does, but he isn't known as an inside running power-blocking guru. Same with Bobby Turner (one my all time favorites).

We turned the defensive roster inside out last year, and you get the feeling that some of that may be coming for the offense this year.

So to answer your question, we took a small step back this year, but if we have a solid run game that gets us to the playoffs by the end of next season, I am all for the changes.

cousinal11
02-03-2010, 01:33 PM
Sometimes you gotta take one step back to go two steps forward....

:pray:

Flex Gunmetal
02-03-2010, 01:35 PM
The difference between the supporters and the haters is patience.
I support mcdaniels, because I support the broncos. I'm not saying if you don't support him, you don't support the broncos. It is just how I see it internally.

LonghornBronco
02-03-2010, 01:42 PM
I will take PPG over YPP and 3rd% all day.

At first glance PPG appears to be the "bottom line" for offensive potency, but would'nt you agree that bad defense could limit offensive touches and bad special teams could screw the offenses starting field possition, both affecting the PPG?

jhns
02-03-2010, 01:42 PM
I agree with the original post. I think 3rd down and red zone efficiencies are key. Those both got worse. I also think the per play and per drive breakdowns really tell the whole story. If you look at these two charts, there is no debate. This years defense was way better than last years. This years offense was worse than last years.


http://aaronschatz.com/stats/drivestats2008
http://aaronschatz.com/stats/drivestats

Hopefully those work. It is hard to get links on my phone.

montrose
02-03-2010, 01:51 PM
Oh boy here we go...

DBroncos4life
02-03-2010, 02:00 PM
Other then turnovers the 09 O wasn't better in any stat so if anyone thinks we had a better O last year then the 08 is just being stubborn. The one part of the O that upsets me the most is the rushing. The 08 team out rushed and scored 6 more times then the 09 O while going through 7 RBs in the process. Anyways we will see what happens next year. We have things we need to work on that much is obvious.

Mediator12
02-03-2010, 02:02 PM
The offense regressed for sure, but it did not implode. I thought wrongly that they would gain less yards between the twenties, but make up for it with a higher red zone TD% with a stronger running game. That would essentially be a wash to me in the first year.

However, they did not get better at the end of the year, they got worse. This is a clear sign to me that they still lacked the personnel to get it done once scheme is no longer an advantage and the players are the determining factors in execution. And yes, that 2008 offense regressed horribly down the stretch too. Therefore, while a lot of people will complain ad hominem about the scheme and losing Cutler etc., the players in 2008 were not getting the job done the last 6 games either.

So, I hope they continue to make personnel adjustments on offense in order to be able to continue to execute down the stretch on both sides of the ball. This is a marvelous draft for Linemen on both sides and some quality players outside of QB. Plenty of opportunity in the draft, but FA could be extremely dicey this year.

PRBronco
02-03-2010, 02:03 PM
Oh boy here we go...

On a related note...does anyone wish we had that first rounder we traded for Alphonso back?

I keed, go back on topic.

TheReverend
02-03-2010, 02:08 PM
The argument over how successful the offense was in 08 is a hard one to settle. So I looked at the stats from a different perspective. yards per play, and 3rd down efficiency. I think these two stats above the others really isolates the offense from the team stats such as points per game, as much as could be. It turns out Denver was second in the league in both these stats. While this season we were 15th and 22nd respectively.

Invariably I have to side with the McD bashers and say the offense has taken a step back. But, as is sometimes the case when you change system/philosophy(sp?) you can expect that. I'd say this comming year will tells us alot about the so called offensive genius.

No. It's really not.

Archer81
02-03-2010, 02:09 PM
http://tinyurl.com/yldefhw


:Broncos:

DBroncos4life
02-03-2010, 02:13 PM
http://tinyurl.com/yldefhw


:Broncos:

Jesus dude if you don't like football discussions on a message board and want to talk food go to a damn food message board.

Archer81
02-03-2010, 02:15 PM
Jesus dude if you don't like football discussions on a message board and want to talk food go to a damn food message board.


Wow. Touchy a bit? Its fajitas. How can you hate fajitas? As for the "football" discussion, rehashing an old argument portrayed in 15 other threads is boring.

:Broncos:

Rabb
02-03-2010, 02:20 PM
I like to cook fajitas in bacon fat

DBroncos4life
02-03-2010, 02:21 PM
Wow. Touchy a bit? Its fajitas. How can you hate fajitas? As for the "football" discussion, rehashing an old argument portrayed in 15 other threads is boring.

:Broncos:

It's the off-season. There are lots of threads talking about the same damn crap with the same damn people fighting. So far this thread had none of them in it. No one was bashing McD for the most part either.

Archer81
02-03-2010, 02:24 PM
It's the off-season. There are lots of threads talking about the same damn crap with the same damn people fighting. So far this thread had none of them in it. No one was bashing McD for the most part either.


The offense sucks now mantra has been in full effect since week 12. Clearly the offense fell off. Arguing that it fell off is pointless, because obviously it did. Why it fell off was covered too. So...

Pizza?

http://tinyurl.com/2vxafg

:Broncos:

Archer81
02-03-2010, 02:24 PM
I like to cook fajitas in bacon fat


That sounds like a rainbow of delicious.


:Broncos:

DBroncos4life
02-03-2010, 02:31 PM
The offense sucks now mantra has been in full effect since week 12. Clearly the offense fell off. Arguing that it fell off is pointless, because obviously it did. Why it fell off was covered too. So...

Pizza?


:Broncos:

Who is really arguing? I think the only thing that is pointless is coming here thinking that I'm going to talk about football. I'm better off on the college boards. It's cool that you don't want to discuss the topic at hand, I get that. I don't want to talk about Cutler, the Bears or who they picked for their OC so I don't post in that thread. I should go post naked pictures again so I get banned from here. Lord knows I won't stay way from here if I can post. :P

Popcorn Sutton
02-03-2010, 02:33 PM
Shanahan's established system of many years was definitely a little better in 2008 than the entirely new Power blocking system played with holdovers from a ZBS system, a new quarterback and new coaching staff.

Archer81
02-03-2010, 02:37 PM
Who is really arguing? I think the only thing that is pointless is coming here thinking that I'm going to talk about football. I'm better off on the college boards. It's cool that you don't want to discuss the topic at hand, I get that. I don't want to talk about Cutler, the Bears or who they picked for their OC so I don't post in that thread. I should go post naked pictures again so I get banned from here. Lord knows I won't stay way from here if I can post. :P


You posted naked pictures?


:Broncos:

oubronco
02-03-2010, 02:40 PM
:approve:

DBroncos4life
02-03-2010, 02:45 PM
You posted naked pictures?


:Broncos:

Of butts in the speaking of butts thread, many years ago. :~ohyah!:

jhns
02-03-2010, 02:46 PM
, a new quarterback.
I bet it isn't half as bad of a falloff if we don't change QBs. Going to Orton tends to do that. I said so last offseason. I called the o-line and receivers falling off. I called the stats falling off. I'm sure it was all lucky guesses though.

As for all of these new system excuses. They are kind of lame. Offensive genius' should be able to get the best out of whoever they have. Look at when Shanahan came here. Watch what happens his first year in Washington. I bet they are statistically better on offense. You know why? Shanahan is an offensive genius.

Anyways, I figured I would get this thread going since all the crybabies are already jacking it. Who would want real football discussions on a football message board?

strafen
02-03-2010, 02:47 PM
Offensive PPG
2008: 23.1
2009: 20.4

Not an earth-shattering falloff.So it's worse. That's all it matters...

Archer81
02-03-2010, 02:49 PM
Of butts in the speaking of butts thread, many years ago. :~ohyah!:


Huh. That thread needs to be revived and brought into the daylight.


:Broncos:

Mr.Meanie
02-03-2010, 02:53 PM
The offense regressed a bit, but the defense and special teams drastically improved.

I am really looking forward to seeing how everything comes together in year 2. In another 9 months. :(

strafen
02-03-2010, 02:54 PM
The offense sucks now mantra has been in full effect since week 12. Clearly the offense fell off. Arguing that it fell off is pointless, because obviously it did. Why it fell off was covered too. So...

Pizza?

http://tinyurl.com/2vxafg

:Broncos:why do you feel the urge to sabotage the thread with your stupid pics, you stupid **********?

Hamrob
02-03-2010, 02:57 PM
I will take PPG over YPP and 3rd% all day.Try factoring in the defensive unit each team had in 2008 and 2009...don't you think that has an impact on points per game?

Archer81
02-03-2010, 02:58 PM
why do you feel the urge to sabotage the thread with your stupid pics, you stupid **********?


http://tinyurl.com/yzajkkh

Have a donut and a smile and shut the **** up.


:Broncos:

Hamrob
02-03-2010, 03:03 PM
The difference between the supporters and the haters is patience.
I support mcdaniels, because I support the broncos. I'm not saying if you don't support him, you don't support the broncos. It is just how I see it internally.I support McDaniels, but I point out his mistakes as well. I look forward to a better year next year...but I think his first year was a definite step back on offense and a step forward on defense.

At the end of the day we were the same...8-8 both years. You are what your record says you are!

We need to take the next step...make the playoffs this coming year. Do that, and no-one can argue that he wasn't a good hire. Miss the playoffs next year, noone will be able to defend him anymore.

Just my internal voice speaking to me. :notworthy

Bigdawg26
02-03-2010, 03:15 PM
http://tinyurl.com/yzajkkh

Have a donut and a smile and shut the **** up.


:Broncos:


Man those look good!

broncofan7
02-03-2010, 03:17 PM
how is this even a topic worthy of a thread? Of course it's WORSE.

here's a hint homers :

www.nfl.com (http://www.nfl.com)

look up something called 'team statistics'.....

baja
02-03-2010, 03:17 PM
Comparing 08 to 09 is an unfair comparison.

scttgrd
02-03-2010, 03:19 PM
Comparing 08 to 09 is an unfair comparison.

Why is that?

NFLBRONCO
02-03-2010, 03:19 PM
I support McDaniels, but I point out his mistakes as well. I look forward to a better year next year...but I think his first year was a definite step back on offense and a step forward on defense.

At the end of the day we were the same...8-8 both years. You are what your record says you are!

We need to take the next step...make the playoffs this coming year. Do that, and no-one can argue that he wasn't a good hire. Miss the playoffs next year, noone will be able to defend him anymore.

Just my internal voice speaking to me. :notworthy

I think playoffs in 10 would be nice but, its a tall order for us in AFC. I think Denver can make a huge step bolstering lines in 10. Then in 11 we bolster final pieces. I do not think Denver will go wild in FA this year and Doom and BM situations are messy because I don't see Bowlen handing out huge contracts but, we'll see.

Archer81
02-03-2010, 03:19 PM
Man those look good!


Stir fry is pretty good too.

http://tinyurl.com/yf6oaop


:Broncos:

broncofan7
02-03-2010, 03:20 PM
why do you feel the urge to sabotage the thread with your stupid pics, you stupid **********?

Because he is a miguided, thrill driven phag..... and posting pics of food gives him as much pleasure as bending over for some HIV + ex con in a McDonalds bathroom...I am convinced that his pics of food are actually code for where his next act of sexual depravity will take place---I'd be on notice if I worked at a Papa Johns :rofl:

broncofan7
02-03-2010, 03:21 PM
Why is that?

because it doesn't come out favorably to their blind, homeristic fetish for McGenius.......but they will talk about that defense!

Archer81
02-03-2010, 03:23 PM
Because he is a miguided, thrill driven phag..... and posting pics of food gives him as much pleasure as bending over for some HIV + ex con in a McDonalds bathroom...I am convinced that his pics of food are actually code for where his next act of sexual depravity will take place---I'd be on notice if I worked at a Papa Johns :rofl:


Wow. If you are going to insult someone, at least spell the insult correctly. As for subconscious desires, no one else on the board really feels the need to describe their junk in detail as you seem so eager to do...I sense a closet case.

Steak?

http://tinyurl.com/47hv3r



:Broncos:

broncofan7
02-03-2010, 03:25 PM
Wow. If you are going to insult someone, at least spelll the insult correctly. As for subconscious desires, no one else on the board really feels the need to describe their junk in detail as you seem so eager to do...I sense a closet case.

Steak?

http://tinyurl.com/47hv3r



:Broncos:

don't you have some truck stop to service?

Archer81
02-03-2010, 03:28 PM
don't you have some truck stop to service?


Is that what gets you going? Naughty.


Lasagna?

http://tinyurl.com/ykwlaxl


:Broncos:

baja
02-03-2010, 03:29 PM
Why is that?

Shanny had 14 years to build that offense and McD had six months to install his.

baja
02-03-2010, 03:30 PM
this thread;

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/parking-ticket-geek/assets_c/2009/06/crap-thumb-640xauto-2314.jpg

Archer81
02-03-2010, 03:31 PM
Shanny had 14 years to build that offense and McD had six months to install his.

Careful. Dont want to be labeled a...


http://tinyurl.com/yg2euph


:Broncos:

Requiem
02-03-2010, 03:31 PM
I'm in the mood for some. . .

http://www.urantiansojourn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/crispy-chicken-wings.jpg

broncofan7
02-03-2010, 03:32 PM
this thread;

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/parking-ticket-geek/assets_c/2009/06/crap-thumb-640xauto-2314.jpg

that best summarizes the content of your posts on this board..........

Mediator12
02-03-2010, 03:32 PM
This is why this place has gone to hell in a handbasket. People point to stats with zero analysis or theory and go scoreboard baby! Then, all we get for half the thread is people taking shots at each other. I just wish half you all knew football half as well as you know how to hurl insults at each other on a message board.

Pathetic really.

Popcorn Sutton
02-03-2010, 03:32 PM
I bet it isn't half as bad of a falloff if we don't change QBs. Going to Orton tends to do that. I said so last offseason. I called the o-line and receivers falling off. I called the stats falling off. I'm sure it was all lucky guesses though.

As for all of these new system excuses. They are kind of lame. Offensive genius' should be able to get the best out of whoever they have. Look at when Shanahan came here. Watch what happens his first year in Washington. I bet they are statistically better on offense. You know why? Shanahan is an offensive genius.

Anyways, I figured I would get this thread going since all the crybabies are already jacking it. Who would want real football discussions on a football message board?

If games were won between the 20s I'd be on board with you. However, if Cutler was able to untangle his panties and act like a professional, I do think McDaniels could have been good for him. The problem and the thing you keep ignoring is Cutler did not want to be here. He made it abundantly clear by ignoring the owner of the team. Of course, you see it differently. ;D

broncofan7
02-03-2010, 03:33 PM
Is that what gets you going? Naughty.


Lasagna?

http://tinyurl.com/ykwlaxl


:Broncos:

Repent son.

Popcorn Sutton
02-03-2010, 03:34 PM
that best summarizes the content of my posts.

I agree. :thumbsup:

misturanderson
02-03-2010, 03:34 PM
Why is that?

You seriously don't understand why? I'm sure you do, you're just trying to start ****.

Nobody has EVER claimed that the 2009 offense was better than the 2008 offense. What they have said is: given the scheme change, the players/coaches that didn't fit the scheme, the injuries to key positions and the tougher defensive schedule, the drop off that the Broncos experienced in offensive production should have been expected and isn't an indication that McDaniels took a top 10 offense (which is debatable) and destroyed it to the point that it will take 10 years to rebuild.

It is also EXTREMELY debatable as to whether the offense or the TEAM would have been any better this year if Cutler had been retained as QB instead of Orton.

Archer81
02-03-2010, 03:35 PM
Repent son.


Hello pot.


Speaking of pots...

Chili?

http://tinyurl.com/byno3u

:Broncos:

baja
02-03-2010, 03:36 PM
that best summarizes the content of your posts on this board..........

Thanks coming from you I will take that as a high compliment.

DBroncos4life
02-03-2010, 03:36 PM
This is why this place has gone to hell in a handbasket. People point to stats with zero analysis or theory and go scoreboard baby! Then, all we get for half the thread is people taking shots at each other. I just wish half you all knew football half as well as you know how to hurl insults at each other on a message board.

Pathetic really.

I was gone for two days and when I logged back on I saw the same people arguing in a new thread about the same crap they have been for a year. You would think by now people would understand that you won't change anyone's mind on here one way or another. The only thing I have to look forward too on here is the mock drafts that we do.

Archer81
02-03-2010, 03:38 PM
I was gone for two days and when I logged back on I saw the same people arguing in a new thread about the same crap they have been for a year. You would think by now people would understand that you won't change anyone's mind on here one way or another. The only thing I have to look forward too on here is the mock drafts that we do.


I'm sayin...


:Broncos:

DBroncos4life
02-03-2010, 03:38 PM
Oh and I forgot Survivor which I always get voted out in the second round so I don't get to have fun doing that very long :P

misturanderson
02-03-2010, 03:43 PM
If games were won between the 20s I'd be on board with you. However, if Cutler was able to untangle his panties and act like a professional, I do think McDaniels could have been good for him. The problem and the thing you keep ignoring is Cutler did not want to be here. He made it abundantly clear by ignoring the owner of the team. Of course, you see it differently. ;D

I really don't see what in Cutler's NFL career has led certain people on this board to believe that he is so much better than Orton other than how amazing he looks on the semi-rare occasion that he isn't playing like total dog ****.

He took over what was supposed to be an upgraded version of the offense that Orton played in last year and the offense performed worse than with Orton at the helm. He hasn't improved his game in any significant way since his 2nd season. What the hell has he done to deserve so much respect from people?

Regardless of someone's feelings on Orton, I don't understand how anyone can seriously look at Cutler's game and support him at this point in his career. He lacks every possible intangible skill you would want in a QB except confidence, which for him is a detriment as much as it is an advantage.

jhns
02-03-2010, 03:47 PM
If games were won between the 20s I'd be on board with you. However, if Cutler was able to untangle his panties and act like a professional, I do think McDaniels could have been good for him. The problem and the thing you keep ignoring is Cutler did not want to be here. He made it abundantly clear by ignoring the owner of the team. Of course, you see it differently. ;D

Oh I get Cutler didn't want to be here. Unlike you, McDaniels, and Bowlen, I just didn't care. Screw Cutler and what he wants. I would have told him if he doesn't want to be here, he can retire. Pretty simple. He is a guy that always put in the work and I doubt he dogs it to show up McDaniels. Why would he want to give up his career and any chance at a payday just to spite his coach? He worked all of every offseason he was on this team. He went with receivers to work out one year and was here to work with McDaniels in the drama offseason. I have no doubt he would have continued to develope if McDaniels is half the offensive coach he is made out to be (which I haven't seen here yet).

I also don't care if they like each other. Plummer and Shanahan hated each other and would get in each others faces on the sidelines. They made the AFCCG and had some good years.

Anyways, enough with opinions. Lets get to the real point of posting. You are a stupid dumb-dumb poo pants. Have a nice day.

scttgrd
02-03-2010, 03:47 PM
You seriously don't understand why? I'm sure you do, you're just trying to start ****.

Nobody has EVER claimed that the 2009 offense was better than the 2008 offense. What they have said is: given the scheme change, the players/coaches that didn't fit the scheme, the injuries to key positions and the tougher defensive schedule, the drop off that the Broncos experienced in offensive production should have been expected and isn't an indication that McDaniels took a top 10 offense (which is debatable) and destroyed it to the point that it will take 10 years to rebuild.

It is also EXTREMELY debatable as to whether the offense or the TEAM would have been any better this year if Cutler had been retained as QB instead of Orton.

Shanny also put a lousy defense on the field that put the offense in bad positions constantly and got very few turnovers. He had to go, and as far as Cutler, what does he have to do with this? McDaniels brought his offense and had little success getting it to work with the personell.

Add to that all the improvement of the defense getting more turnovers and giving the offese more possessions it should have been at least as successfull as last year. The defense did fine with the scheme change. Wasn't McDaniels supposed to be an offensive genius?

oubronco
02-03-2010, 03:53 PM
,

jhns
02-03-2010, 03:59 PM
I really don't see what in Cutler's NFL career has led certain people on this board to believe that he is so much better than Orton other than how amazing he looks on the semi-rare occasion that he isn't playing like total dog ****.

He took over what was supposed to be an upgraded version of the offense that Orton played in last year and the offense performed worse than with Orton at the helm. He hasn't improved his game in any significant way since his 2nd season. What the hell has he done to deserve so much respect from people?

Regardless of someone's feelings on Orton, I don't understand how anyone can seriously look at Cutler's game and support him at this point in his career. He lacks every possible intangible skill you would want in a QB except confidence, which for him is a detriment as much as it is an advantage.

Well, I tend to think Elway and McDaniels know more than any of us about QB's. Lets see what they think:

“Jay’s a great talent. I think he can really play the game and has a chance to be a great quarterback in his career,” Elway said.

Elway called Kyle Orton, who was acquired from the Bears by the Broncos, “a decent quarterback,” not exactly a ringing endorsement. “The Broncos now need a quarterback to step up and help get this team back to elite status in the NFL. They’ve got to replace what Jay gave to the team.”

http://insidesportsgeek.wordpress.com/2009/04/03/paige-cutlers-departure-saddens-the-duke/


Asked at what point would it be in the best interest of the team to trade Cutler (who is staying away from the team's offseason workout program and has formally asked to be traded) McDaniels answered: "Never."

McDaniels said the chance of coaching Cutler was the initial selling point of the job for him. He admitted he never imagined this situation so early in his tenure.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/2125/mcdaniels-handles-cutler-circus

I don't think they agree with you guys.

gyldenlove
02-03-2010, 04:11 PM
All the important meassurables dropped this year by some amount. Clearly not as good as last year.

Is the drop a long term trend or a dip before the rise, we don't know that yet. Much will be settled this year, I think the 08 offensive numbers will be the benchmark for the 2010 season at least in terms of points, we have to at least match the 08 team. We also have to improve running, 3rd down conversions and red zone scoring, maybe not to the level of the 08 offense, but we have to get closer to 08 numbers than 09 numbers.

Mr.Meanie
02-03-2010, 04:25 PM
Well, I tend to think Elway and McDaniels know more than any of us about QB's. Lets see what they think:

“Jay’s a great talent. I think he can really play the game and has a chance to be a great quarterback in his career,” Elway said.

Elway called Kyle Orton, who was acquired from the Bears by the Broncos, “a decent quarterback,” not exactly a ringing endorsement. “The Broncos now need a quarterback to step up and help get this team back to elite status in the NFL. They’ve got to replace what Jay gave to the team.”

http://insidesportsgeek.wordpress.com/2009/04/03/paige-cutlers-departure-saddens-the-duke/


Asked at what point would it be in the best interest of the team to trade Cutler (who is staying away from the team's offseason workout program and has formally asked to be traded) McDaniels answered: "Never."

McDaniels said the chance of coaching Cutler was the initial selling point of the job for him. He admitted he never imagined this situation so early in his tenure.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/2125/mcdaniels-handles-cutler-circus

I don't think they agree with you guys.

You say this, and then every other post you say Bowlen wouldn't trade Cutler without McD's stamp of approval. Which is it?

jhns
02-03-2010, 05:17 PM
You say this, and then every other post you say Bowlen wouldn't trade Cutler without McD's stamp of approval. Which is it?

I don't see the contradiction.

misturanderson
02-03-2010, 05:39 PM
All the important meassurables dropped this year by some amount. Clearly not as good as last year.

Is the drop a long term trend or a dip before the rise, we don't know that yet. Much will be settled this year, I think the 08 offensive numbers will be the benchmark for the 2010 season at least in terms of points, we have to at least match the 08 team. We also have to improve running, 3rd down conversions and red zone scoring, maybe not to the level of the 08 offense, but we have to get closer to 08 numbers than 09 numbers.

This is what any reasonable person would be thinking right now.

LonghornBronco
02-03-2010, 07:07 PM
I think sacks, points, run game and 3rd down efficiancy. All indicate inferior QB play, and if we are to take the next step we need to improve in that area firstand fore most.

misturanderson
02-03-2010, 07:23 PM
I think sacks, points, run game and 3rd down efficiancy. All indicate inferior QB play, and if we are to take the next step we need to improve in that area firstand fore most.

Barring a Tom Brady-like performance from Brandstater next year, it will be impossible given the lack of available QBs out there. We can draft a QB, but even if they get forced into the lineup next year, they will not live up to Orton's performance from last year. No rookie QB has since Marino and even he did it on less than a full season. Who knows what would have happened if he had played the whole year.

To sum things up: get used to waiting if you want change at the QB position because there is about a 1% chance that Orton isn't our starter for a majority of the 2010 season (barring injury).

And to directly reply to your post: the run game, sacks and 3rd down efficiency were DEFINITELY impacted more by regression of (and injuries to) our offensive line than by the QB. It really isn't even debatable if you watched the games.

doonwise
02-03-2010, 11:02 PM
If you really want to compare stats, why not compare Shanahan's first year (ended 8-8) to McDaniels (ended 8-8). I would be curious to see where the '95 team ranked in yards per play, 3rd down efficiency, etc.

DBroncos4life
02-03-2010, 11:33 PM
If you really want to compare stats, why not compare Shanahan's first year (ended 8-8) to McDaniels (ended 8-8). I would be curious to see where the '95 team ranked in yards per play, 3rd down efficiency, etc.

9th in scoring, 3rd in yards and 5th in first downs. We ranked in the top ten in every pass category and the top fifteen in every rushing category but attempts.

jhns
02-04-2010, 05:58 AM
9th in scoring, 3rd in yards and 5th in first downs. We ranked in the top ten in every pass category and the top fifteen in every rushing category but attempts.

I haven't seen the third down efficiency for both but Shanahan did improve the offense his first year here. I bet he does the same in Washington.

broncofan7
02-04-2010, 06:12 AM
9th in scoring, 3rd in yards and 5th in first downs. We ranked in the top ten in every pass category and the top fifteen in every rushing category but attempts.

We had a HOF caliber QB--Orton is bottom third QB....the comparison to 1995 is ridiculous and although the 2009 Broncos come out on the short end in that matchup as well--further proving my point the McGenius is anything but, 2008 is a far better measuring stick b/c most of the talent (save for the QB) remained the same--it was the scheme that changed. and our offensive reults were worse because of it....

jhns
02-04-2010, 06:17 AM
I haven't seen the third down efficiency for both but Shanahan did improve the offense his first year here. I bet he does the same in Washington.

Ok, I have their 3rd down stats now.

1994
30 FGs
37 TDs
5487 yards
87/231 third downs %37.7
4.9 per play

1995
31 FGs
42 TDs
89/207 third down - %43
6040 yards
5.7 per play

WolfpackGuy
02-04-2010, 06:20 AM
Basically the same situation as 2009, but Shanahan didn't come in and blow up the offense.

He changed the running game, but the Broncos were already running a similar passing game under Fassel.

That 95 team was also still recovering from the piss poor defenses of 93 and 94.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2010, 06:44 AM
We had a HOF caliber QB--Orton is bottom third QB........

Yup, up until 1999. Haven't had another since.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2010, 06:48 AM
Sure glad someone started a new thread on this. I mean, really, how have we neglected this subject for so long? Crazy!

I think anyone looking objectively at the performances of the past two years would have to say that the offense in '09 took a step back. /shrug This generally happens when you have a new scheme, new coach, new quarterback.

Again: /shrug

jhns
02-04-2010, 06:55 AM
Sure glad someone started a new thread on this. I mean, really, how have we neglected this subject for so long? Crazy!

I think anyone looking objectively at the performances of the past two years would have to say that the offense in '09 took a step back. /shrug This generally happens when you have a new scheme, new coach, new quarterback.

Again: /shrug

Really? Shanahan makes his offenses instantly better... Our defense had a much bigger scheme change, a ton more new players, and a new coach. They improved a ton. I guess I just expect someone billed as such an offensive guru to be able to get the best out of his offense and put them in a position to succeed.

Anyways, the reason I personally have a problem with the dropoff is that our team decided to cut its nose off in spite of its face this past offseason. We were not nearly as good as we would have been if they didn't do this. The future would be a lot brighter if we weren't now stuck with Orton. I have no doubt we are in the playoffs if we don't give away Cutler.

broncofan7
02-04-2010, 07:17 AM
Yup, up until 1999. Haven't had another since.

But even with a bottom third QB in Griese (similar to Orton)we still produced very good offensive numbers under Shanny........

Popcorn Sutton
02-04-2010, 08:07 AM
Really? Shanahan makes his offenses instantly better... Our defense had a much bigger scheme change, a ton more new players, and a new coach. They improved a ton. I guess I just expect someone billed as such an offensive guru to be able to get the best out of his offense and put them in a position to succeed.

Anyways, the reason I personally have a problem with the dropoff is that our team decided to cut its nose off in spite of its face this past offseason. We were not nearly as good as we would have been if they didn't do this. The future would be a lot brighter if we weren't now stuck with Orton. I have no doubt we are in the playoffs if we don't give away Cutler.

You know jhns... I do believe that -- had Cutler and McDaniels put the trade issue behind them and Cutler came to camp determined to prove what an idiot McDaniels was for allowing his name to come up in trade discussions; that the offense would have improved. I really believe with Cutler this offense would have been better this year.

The problem is that Cutler said that he wouldn't play in Denver unless they guaranteed he wouldn't be traded. (See interview with Andrea Kramer in the Chicago Vs. Denver preseason game). That is simply not going to happen. McDaniels probably had no intentions of trading him at that point but knew he couldn't guarantee that he wouldn't be traded strictly on principal. McDaniels believes (rightly so) that one player is not above the rest of the team and if he were to guarantee Jay no trade, then he would be going against his beliefs right out of the gate.

With that said, McDaniels brought in a QB with far less physical talent and still managed to have a decent season. My hopes are that Orton can give us one more serviceable season (improve on last year) and McDaniels can find his QB for the long term by 2011. Although, I think Orton is not the worst QB out there I can certainly acknowledge that he is not the QB that will take the Broncos to the promise land.

baja
02-04-2010, 09:13 AM
Barring a Tom Brady-like performance from Brandstater next year, it will be impossible given the lack of available QBs out there. We can draft a QB, but even if they get forced into the lineup next year, they will not live up to Orton's performance from last year. No rookie QB has since Marino and even he did it on less than a full season. Who knows what would have happened if he had played the whole year.

To sum things up: get used to waiting if you want change at the QB position because there is about a 1% chance that Orton isn't our starter for a majority of the 2010 season (barring injury).

<b>And to directly reply to your post: the run game, sacks and 3rd down efficiency were DEFINITELY impacted more by regression of (and injuries to) our offensive line than by the QB. It really isn't even debatable if you watched the games.

This!

kamakazi_kal
02-04-2010, 09:16 AM
Football is supposed to be entertaining. Our offense was almost taxing to watch last year.

Here's to hoping if Orton is our QB (....shutter....) that we can expand past the same 3 plays as 90% of our game plan.
Unless we draft a rookie or Brandstater magicly works his way into the lineup that playbook better be expanded ....... oh and Moreno ...... try a salad every now and then I want to see you if not faster at least quicker to the hole.

Archer81
02-04-2010, 10:03 AM
We had a HOF caliber QB--Orton is bottom third QB....the comparison to 1995 is ridiculous and although the 2009 Broncos come out on the short end in that matchup as well--further proving my point the McGenius is anything but, 2008 is a far better measuring stick b/c most of the talent (save for the QB) remained the same--it was the scheme that changed. and our offensive reults were worse because of it....


http://tinyurl.com/l94aup

Cupcake?

:Broncos:

jhns
02-04-2010, 10:16 AM
http://tinyurl.com/l94aup

Cupcake?

:Broncos:

Uh oh. Sir is back to cry some more. He doesn't like it when the mean message board people talk about stuff he doesn't agree with.

Don't worry little one, we will just go to every other thread and talk about this since you can't stand a thread staying on topic.

Archer81
02-04-2010, 10:27 AM
Uh oh. Sir is back to cry some more. He doesn't like it when the mean message board people talk about stuff he doesn't agree with.

Don't worry little one, we will just go to every other thread and talk about this since you can't stand a thread staying on topic.


I think I made my point about the offense taking a step back from where it was a year ago. What I am tired of is the arguing by the same two sides about the same topic over and over and over again. No kidding the offense last year was better than this year's. Neither offense can be considered good, no matter how you skew stats or point to extinuating circumstances. The fact that neither the 08 or 09 teams were good enough to make the playoffs should automatically tell you the team was no where near the level of competing for a championship. So if pictures of food bugs you that much, ignore me.

http://tinyurl.com/ygr5bb2


:Broncos:

mr007
02-04-2010, 10:32 AM
Sometimes you gotta take one step back to go two steps forward....

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6ByNROf8v-Q&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6ByNROf8v-Q&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

jhns
02-04-2010, 10:33 AM
I think I made my point about the offense taking a step back from where it was a year ago. What I am tired of is the arguing by the same two sides about the same topic over and over and over again. No kidding the offense last year was better than this year's. Neither offense can be considered good, no matter how you skew stats or point to extinuating circumstances. The fact that neither the 08 or 09 teams were good enough to make the playoffs should automatically tell you the team was no where near the level of competing for a championship. So if pictures of food bugs you that much, ignore me.

http://tinyurl.com/ygr5bb2


:Broncos:

Your pictures don't bug me. I'm just saying that you have no room to bitch when this topic takes over other threads. We try taking it to its own thread and you troll it.

That and I like to point out when people sound like little girls. "Mommy they are talking about a subject I don't approve of again! Wahhhhhhhh!!!!" Poor thing. I'm sure everyone feels bad for you.

Archer81
02-04-2010, 10:39 AM
Your pictures don't bug me. I'm just saying that you have no room to b**** when this topic takes over other threads. We try taking it to its own thread and you troll it.

That and I like to point out when people sound like little girls. "Mommy they are talking about a subject I don't approve of again! Wahhhhhhhh!!!!" Poor thing. I'm sure everyone feels bad for you.


Did I say anything about approving of or not approving of the topic? In my opinion, its been argued to the point of stupidity. So why create another thread rehashing an old argument? Threads exist that already contain the full spectrum of this argument from both sides.

I was unaware posting pictures of food is me whining about anything. Maybe you should stop projecting.

:Broncos:

jhns
02-04-2010, 10:42 AM
Did I say anything about approving of or not approving of the topic? In my opinion, its been argued to the point of stupidity. So why create another thread rehashing an old argument? Threads exist that already contain the full spectrum of this argument from both sides.

I was unaware posting pictures of food is me whining about anything. Maybe you should stop projecting.

:Broncos:

"They are talking about stuff I don't want to talk about. I will just troll even though it is pretty obvious many others still want to talk about the subject."

Sure looks like a 2 year olds temper tantrum to me.

Archer81
02-04-2010, 10:52 AM
"They are talking about stuff I don't want to talk about. I will just troll even though it is pretty obvious many others still want to talk about the subject."

Sure looks like a 2 year olds temper tantrum to me.


Yup. Projecting.


:Broncos:

strafen
02-04-2010, 11:12 AM
http://tinyurl.com/l94aup

Cupcake?

:Broncos:

I've got a cupcake between my legs for you to suck on, moron.
Quit sabotaging thread, idiot!