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tsiguy96
02-03-2010, 03:31 AM
Mike - Is the axing of Mike Nolan another rash move by the Boy King, or a really smart way to stock up on more New England driftwood? And do you think the Boy King will cut the old guard Broncos fans next and bring in replacement fans from New England?
-- Dan Nace, St. Louis

Dan, Dan, Dan. You're funny. Harsh, but funny.

No doubt, Nolan's departure enlarged McDaniels' reputation as someone who's difficult to work for. But at the Pro Bowl and Super Bowl events the past week or so, I talked to several writers who covered Nolan at various points in his career. They all described him as a good man, but a micromanaging control freak. McDaniels is also a good man who also appears to be a micromanaging control freak. The difference is, McDaniels, as the head coach, is the only guy who has the right.

So it wasn't going to work. Nolan is now the Dolphins' defensive coordinator. Miami is his seventh team since he became a defensive coordinator for the first time in 1993. In other words, McDaniels isn't the first guy who didn't want to work with Nolan anymore. I don't mean to criticize Nolan, who is an outstanding person, and a good coach. But to put 100 percent blame for his latest breakup on McDaniels is ridiculous.

rest of them:
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_14314460?source=rss

Bronco Rob
02-03-2010, 03:34 AM
Broncos Mailbag: Why did McDaniels come here?


J Will from Lakewood gets to wondering about overhaul of roster, staff, schemes
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 02/03/2010 01:00:00 AM MST


It's safe to say that Tony Scheffler and Brandon Marshall are going the way of Jay Cutler. Gone as well are the offensive-coaching staff and the zone-running scheme and probably some of the athletic, undersized offensive line (and Peyton Hillis). This means that since Josh McDaniels arrived in Denver, he's completely stripped apart the formerly second-ranked offense and dropped two young Pro Bowl, franchise-caliber players. So my question: Since we had almost nothing that he wanted, why did Josh McDaniels come to Denver?
-- J Will, Lakewood


J Will - A nicely written query. Liked your setup. Cutler was a big reason why McDaniels sought the Broncos' job. Perhaps, you call this ironic.

As for that second-ranked offense McDaniels inherited, don't forget it finished 16th in scoring. Football games, J Will, are not won between the 20s.

I know change, particularly dramatic change, is difficult for anyone to accept. But the Broncos were 24-24 in the three years before McDaniels arrived. They had won one playoff game in the previous 10 years.

Why wouldn't you want change? Granted, McDaniels' first season only continued this disturbing trend of mediocrity. But at least give him a second year.




Mike - We need a QB, and it's not Kyle Orton. The playing-not-to-lose thing is just painful to watch. Broncos fans are so used to seeing the QB scramble out of trouble and make a play downfield. Now we watch Orton go down on a pinky tackle. What's the answer: the draft or free agency? Mike Vick?
-- Dave Leonard, McCook Lake, S.D.


Dave - The answer in 2010 is giving Orton a second year. The key for Orton is staying healthy.

His next step as a quarterback, in my opinion, is doing a better job of staying out of harm's way. This is two consecutive seasons 2008 with the Bears and 2009 with the Broncos when he was playing extremely well, only to suffer a significant ankle injury and then not play so well.
To get a better idea of how a bum ankle would affect a quarterback, think what it would do to a baseball pitcher. A pitcher with a bum ankle couldn't pitch. Orton played but he wasn't nearly as effective post-ankle injury.



Mike - I wanted to ask you what the Broncos think about Chris Kuper. Do you predict that he will be back? Will he be back as a starter? I get the feeling that the entire interior of our offensive line will be different. Thanks.
-- Chris, Thornton


Chris - I believe Kuper will be back. Yes, McDaniels wants to strengthen his offensive interior line. And yes, Kuper, as a right guard, is an interior lineman who was drafted by the Broncos in 2006 as a prototype zone blocker. But Kuper is too young, too talented, too competitive, and even as a restricted free agent, too inexpensive to let go. Chris Kupers are simply too difficult to find to let go.



Hey, Mike. I completely understand that Josh McDaniels wants to take control of the team. But do you think getting rid of our Pro Bowl receiver is the smart thing to do?
-- Neil, Antioch, Calif.



Neil - I choose to report on this question; not answer it. It's my job to deliver this issue from both sides the reasons why McDaniels will trade Marshall, and reasons why Marshall deserves to stay and get paid.

I will opine that Marshall will be traded. McDaniels' decision to dismiss Marshall from the season's final game, and Marshall's insistence on receiving the type of contract the Broncos don't feel comfortable providing him make his departure certain.

But whether this is smart or not is left to you, our columnists and radio's sports-talk hosts



With Josh McDaniels' success with quarterbacks, do you see the Broncos drafting Tim Tebow? Could McDaniels develop him to be a starter?
-- Justin, Superior, Wis.


Justin - McDaniels isn't afraid to think outside the box or make decisions that don't sit well with the majority. I'm guessing McDaniels has at least spent time thinking of how he could develop and use Tebow.

But there's no way McDaniels or any other NFL head coach believes Tebow can be an every-down quarterback. A slash, maybe. A wildcat QB, tops. But nothing more.

Larry Walker, when he played right field for the Rockies, had a more compact throwing delivery than Tebow. I think Tebow has enough arm strength, but there are too many other flaws.

Now could McDaniels draft Tebow with, say, a second, fourth-round pick to become a Wildcat QB/small tight end/fullback? He might think about it.



Will the Broncos match any offer for Elvis Dumervil, or might he end up in Miami with Mike Nolan?
-- Everett, Phoenix



Everett - If it gets that far, I'm certain the Broncos will match any offer. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if a deal is worked out before the tender date of March 5.

Besides the fact Dumervil is the league's best pass rusher, McDaniels needs him for his locker room. Publicly and privately, Dumervil is complimentary of McDaniels, just as he was with Shanahan. Dumervil is the type of guy who respects authority. He's McDaniels' kind of guy.



Mike - Is the axing of Mike Nolan another rash move by the Boy King, or a really smart way to stock up on more New England driftwood? And do you think the Boy King will cut the old guard Broncos fans next and bring in replacement fans from New England?
-- Dan Nace, St. Louis



Dan, Dan, Dan. You're funny. Harsh, but funny.

No doubt, Nolan's departure enlarged McDaniels' reputation as someone who's difficult to work for. But at the Pro Bowl and Super Bowl events the past week or so, I talked to several writers who covered Nolan at various points in his career. They all described him as a good man, but a micromanaging control freak. McDaniels is also a good man who also appears to be a micromanaging control freak. The difference is, McDaniels, as the head coach, is the only guy who has the right.

So it wasn't going to work. Nolan is now the Dolphins' defensive coordinator. Miami is his seventh team since he became a defensive coordinator for the first time in 1993. In other words, McDaniels isn't the first guy who didn't want to work with Nolan anymore. I don't mean to criticize Nolan, who is an outstanding person, and a good coach. But to put 100 percent blame for his latest breakup on McDaniels is ridiculous.







http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_14314460

watermock
02-03-2010, 03:39 AM
Must be lonely at the top.

http://www.ricksteves.com/images/pledge/insights/eagles_nest_hr.jpg

watermock
02-03-2010, 03:48 AM
Jesus, Kliss must pass the sniff test.

Why doesn't he just lick boy wonder's balls?

chadta
02-03-2010, 04:21 AM
you know you watch to much porn if you wondered what a dp was doing on the omane

Blueflame
02-03-2010, 04:27 AM
A lotta words for basically saying nothing......

watermock
02-03-2010, 04:30 AM
Mike - Is the axing of Mike Nolan another rash move by the Boy King, or a really smart way to stock up on more New England driftwood? And do you think the Boy King will cut the old guard Broncos fans next and bring in replacement fans from New England?
-- Dan Nace, St. Louis

Dan, Dan, Dan. You're funny. Harsh, but funny.

No doubt, Nolan's departure enlarged McDaniels' reputation as someone who's difficult to work for. But at the Pro Bowl and Super Bowl events the past week or so, I talked to several writers who covered Nolan at various points in his career. They all described him as a good man, but a micromanaging control freak. McDaniels is also a good man who also appears to be a micromanaging control freak. The difference is, McDaniels, as the head coach, is the only guy who has the right.

So it wasn't going to work. Nolan is now the Dolphins' defensive coordinator. Miami is his seventh team since he became a defensive coordinator for the first time in 1993. In other words, McDaniels isn't the first guy who didn't want to work with Nolan anymore. I don't mean to criticize Nolan, who is an outstanding person, and a good coach. But to put 100 percent blame for his latest breakup on McDaniels is ridiculous.

rest of them:
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_14314460?source=rss


Wow.

Nolan comes in and makes shiola from shiat and Beavis destroys the offense.

jhns
02-03-2010, 05:57 AM
Orton was bad well before the ankle injury. We weren't 16th in offensive scoring, this guy needs to learn what he is talking about. Now he is sounding like McDaniels trying to twist stats to get people on his side. It tells you how much of an argument they really have for destroying that offense. Even with the twisted stats, do they not realize we were worse at scoring this year? We were worse on third down. We were worse in the red zone. All young players regressed other than Marshall. We were far healthier than the past 8-8 season. I don't see the argument that favors tearing that offense apart.

go_broncos
02-03-2010, 05:59 AM
If given a chance, Mcd will trade bowlen for few draft picks.

Rulon Velvet Jones
02-03-2010, 06:11 AM
Orton was bad well before the ankle injury. We weren't 16th in offensive scoring, this guy needs to learn what he is talking about. Now he is sounding like McDaniels trying to twist stats to get people on his side. It tells you how much of an argument they really have for destroying that offense. Even with the twisted stats, do they not realize we were worse at scoring this year? We were worse on third down. We were worse in the red zone. All young players regressed other than Marshall. We were far healthier than the past 8-8 season. I don't see the argument that favors tearing that offense apart.

The year before, which is what he was talking about - they were 16th in scoring.

watermock
02-03-2010, 06:13 AM
How bout those Cowboys!?

jhns
02-03-2010, 06:15 AM
The year before, which is what he was talking about - they were 16th in scoring.

Sure. Just not offensive scoring. That is a team stat being used against the offense. If you can only dog the offense with a team stat, it shows you have no argument.

Florida_Bronco
02-03-2010, 06:16 AM
Orton was bad well before the ankle injury. Umm yeah, Ok. ::)

We weren't 16th in offensive scoring. this guy needs to learn what he is talking about. Now he is sounding like McDaniels trying to twist stats to get people on his side. It tells you how much of an argument they really have for destroying that offense. Really?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STAT S&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1

Care to read to me what team is in the 16th slot when sorted by points per game?

Even with the twisted stats, do they not realize we were worse at scoring this year? We were worse on third down. We were worse in the red zone. All young players regressed other than Marshall. We were far healthier than the past 8-8 season. Think a new scheme, new quarterback and the lack of some suitable players might have had something to do with it?

I don't see the argument that favors tearing that offense apart. The only argument required is that we hired a coach who ran a completely different system and brought that to Denver. Seeing as how it was the same system that he used when calling the greatest offense in NFL history I'd say he just might know what he's doing.

Beantown Bronco
02-03-2010, 06:20 AM
We were far healthier than the past 8-8 season. I don't see the argument that favors tearing that offense apart.

The ONLY position that this was true for is RB. The rest of the offense in 2008 was extremely healthy. OLine and QB in particular suffered key injuries in 2009 that directly contributed to the offense's struggles. How anyone can't at least acknowledge that a little is beyond me.

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2010, 06:23 AM
There usually isn't much difference between teams in the middle third of the scoring rankings.

jhns
02-03-2010, 06:27 AM
Umm yeah, Ok. ::)

Really?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STAT S&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1

Care to read to me what team is in the 16th slot when sorted by points per game?

Think a new scheme, new quarterback and the lack of some suitable players might have had something to do with it?

The only argument required is that we hired a coach who ran a completely different system and brought that to Denver. Seeing as how it was the same system that he used when calling the greatest offense in NFL history I'd say he just might know what he's doing.

Why don't you do yourself a favor and go to ESPN. Go to the team page and look at the stats page. They have a section called scoring. Look at how we got our points, which add up to that total. Did Webster rush for his TD or was he a reveiver? I don't really remember him playing on offense.....

He can install his scheme. He f'd up giving away our QB only to leave us stuck with Orton. If you are going to give away a good QB, you might want a better plan than Orton if you want everyone to support you. What a joke. We regressed in every way on offense. We keep Culter and Royal continues to look like a receiver and we have half the offensive line problems. Having such a limited QB has made everyone elses job much harder and now they have all regressed. I know you think that is the smart thing to do, I just don't agree.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 06:27 AM
The year before, which is what he was talking about - they were 16th in scoring.

Yeah, but not in JHNS's little head.

jhns
02-03-2010, 06:32 AM
The ONLY position that this was true for is RB. The rest of the offense in 2008 was extremely healthy. OLine and QB in particular suffered key injuries in 2009 that directly contributed to the offense's struggles. How anyone can't at least acknowledge that a little is beyond me.

As a team, we were far healthier this year. That is even if you take out all injuries to RBs. I agree, injuries play a big role. They are not more of an excuse than last year. We had our QB hurt his throwing hand in 2006, it is when our offense declined. Our top receiver played the season with a hype that needed surgery right after. The only healthy position on that team was o-line. The entire defense was injured by the end. I would say they have a much better injury excuse.

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2010, 06:33 AM
Anyone notice how most if not ALL the mailbag emails are NEGATIVE?

LOL

God, I hope the team doesn't draft Tebow, but something tells me it will.

jhns
02-03-2010, 06:34 AM
Yeah, but not in JHNS's little head.


LOL

You defend that? Nice. You guys only prove my point. You have nothing.

Beantown Bronco
02-03-2010, 06:34 AM
As a team, we were far healthier this year.

We're talking offense here. Not team.

injuries play a big role. They are not more of an excuse than last year. We had our QB hurt his throwing hand in 2006, it is when our offense declined. Our top receiver played the season with a hype that needed surgery right after. The only healthy position on that team was o-line. The entire defense was injured by the end. I would say they have a much better injury excuse.

2006 was last year? What, were you in a coma for a few years or something?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 06:40 AM
As a team, we were far healthier this year. That is even if you take out all injuries to RBs. I agree, injuries play a big role. They are not more of an excuse than last year. We had our QB hurt his throwing hand in 2006, it is when our offense declined. Our top receiver played the season with a hype that needed surgery right after. The only healthy position on that team was o-line. The entire defense was injured by the end. I would say they have a much better injury excuse.

I hurt my hype in late '07. Brutal, brutal injury.

Florida_Bronco
02-03-2010, 06:41 AM
Why don't you do yourself a favor and go to ESPN. Go to the team page and look at the stats page. They have a section called scoring. Look at how we got our points, which add up to that total. Did Webster rush for his TD or was he a reveiver? I don't really remember him playing on offense... You do realize that if you take those points away it actually makes our offense look worse, right?

He can install his scheme. I'm sure he's glad that he has your permission.

He f'd up giving away our QB only to leave us stuck with Orton. This is really ****ing dumb to be going over Jay Cutler bull**** again, but I remind you of 2 facts.

1) Cutler refused to meet with McDaniels, ignored Bowlen's phone calls and demanded a trade.

2) Bowlen, by his own admission, made the decision to trade Cutler.

If you are going to give away a good QB, you might want a better plan than Orton if you want everyone to support you. Orton out performed Cutler this year. Also seeing as how McD brought Brady up to elite levels and made Cassel a very impressive QB, I'll trust that he got the best available option to be his QB.

What a joke. We regressed in every way on offense. We keep Culter and Royal continues to look like a receiver and we have half the offensive line problems. How would Cutler do anything for the offensive line other than possibly somewhat masking their weaknesses?

Having such a limited QB has made everyone elses job much harder and now they have all regressed. We replaced a talented but turnover prone QB for a less (but not by a huge margin) talented QB who is smarter and plays mistake free football. Pretty much a wash, especially since Orton was the better player this year.

I know you think that is the smart thing to do, I just don't agree. No, it wasn't really the smart thing to do. All things being equal there is hardly any reason to even consider trading Cutler for Orton, but Cutler refused to act like a professional and forced Bowlen and McDaniels hand. I simply feel like they made the best of a pretty bad situation.

jhns
02-03-2010, 06:42 AM
We're talking offense here. Not team.

2006 was last year? What, were you in a coma for a few years or something?


Offense alone we were healthier this past year. The team was also healthier. I know all of you think the other two parts of the team don't mess with the third one, but that just isn't true. Defense and special teams do affect the offense. This past year had a far healthier and far better defense and special teams.

Sorry, I don't want to move on to 2010 yet. I would prefer to think I have a couple years of Shanahan left.

Sure.

watermock
02-03-2010, 06:44 AM
http://www.sneeko.net/images/macros/Spelling-DictionaryNazi.gif.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 06:44 AM
Offense alone we were healthier this past year. The team was also healthier. I know all of you think the other two parts of the team don't mess with the third one, but that just isn't true. Defense and special teams do affect the offense. This past year had a far healthier and far better defense and special teams.

Sorry, I don't want to move on to 2010 yet. I would prefer to think I have a couple years of Shanahan left.

Sure.

We know. We know you wish Shanahan was still here. Sorry to break your little heart, girl.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 06:45 AM
http://www.sneeko.net/images/macros/Spelling-DictionaryNazi.gif.

Yet another great contribution from this forum's version of the drunk on the street corner.

jhns
02-03-2010, 06:52 AM
You do realize that if you take those points away it actually makes our offense look worse, right?

I'm sure he's glad that he has your permission.

This is really ****ing dumb to be going over Jay Cutler bull**** again, but I remind you of 2 facts.

1) Cutler refused to meet with McDaniels, ignored Bowlen's phone calls and demanded a trade.

2) Bowlen, by his own admission, made the decision to trade Cutler.

Orton out performed Cutler this year. Also seeing as how McD brought Brady up to elite levels and made Cassel a very impressive QB, I'll trust that he got the best available option to be his QB.

How would Cutler do anything for the offensive line other than possibly somewhat masking their weaknesses?

We replaced a talented but turnover prone QB for a less (but not by a huge margin) talented QB who is smarter and plays mistake free football. Pretty much a wash, especially since Orton was the better player this year.

No, it wasn't really the smart thing to do. All things being equal there is hardly any reason to even consider trading Cutler for Orton, but Cutler refused to act like a professional and forced Bowlen and McDaniels hand. I simply feel like they made the best of a pretty bad situation.

Ummm, you do realize that means every team has their defensive and special teams scores included, right? We are top 10 in offensive scoring that year. Want to know what's funny? We scored more with defense and special teams this year only to finish even lower in scoring.

They didn't handle Cutler correctly. Listen to him sob after the trade "I didn't want to be traded..." Again, our problem is we need a real GM. That is especially true when we bring in a coach with 0 experience. He has never been a head coach at any level. He has 2 years experience as a coordinator. I fail to see how he is qualifies to be head coach/GM/offensive play caller. There isn't even an experienced coach that is successful doing all of that right now. Cutler was under contract and would have had to retire if he didn't want to play.

Also, Bowlen is not trading the starting QB without the head coach wanting it to happen. Let's not act like we are new to following this team. Anyone who actually thinks that has not payed attention.

jhns
02-03-2010, 06:53 AM
[/B]

We know. We know you wish Shanahan was still here. Sorry to break your little heart, girl.

This is a big boy conversation. Why are you here?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 06:54 AM
This is a big boy conversation. Why are you here?

Really? Then tell your dad he's wanted on the Mane.

jhns
02-03-2010, 06:57 AM
Really? Then tell your dad he's wanted on the Mane.

Good one Mr. Do-do head.

Is that more what you are looking for? It is all you seem to bring.

colonelbeef
02-03-2010, 07:00 AM
The year before, which is what he was talking about - they were 16th in scoring.

As a team, including defensive scoring. The offense on it's own was 12th, and a few missed field goals by a young kicker from being top 10. A totally misleading statistic used by those who do not fully understand football, and only wish to criticize Shanahan or Cutler, without true merit.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 07:02 AM
As a team, including defensive scoring. The offense on it's own was 12th, and a few missed field goals by a young kicker from being top 10. A totally misleading statistic used by those who do not fully understand football, and only wish to criticize Shanahan or Cutler, without true merit.

Yeah, because when I think of people who don't know football and who just want to criticize Shanahan or Cutler i think of Mike ****ing Klis.

the stupidity level in here is chest-high.

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2010, 07:06 AM
As a team, including defensive scoring. The offense on it's own was 12th, and a few missed field goals by a young kicker from being top 10. A totally misleading statistic used by those who do not fully understand football, and only wish to criticize Shanahan or Cutler, without true merit.

Yes, the scoring ranking thing is an overused and misunderstood subject around here. You have to actually look at the return scores, total plays ran, and time of possession together.

jhns
02-03-2010, 07:07 AM
MOMMY, SOMEONE JUT SAID CUTLER ON THE MESSAGE BOARDS AGAIN! I'll go show those do-do heads.

Youz guys R st00p1D!.!..!

You are getting kind of sad at this point.

Gob
02-03-2010, 07:35 AM
Umm yeah, Ok. ::)

Really?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STAT S&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1

Care to read to me what team is in the 16th slot when sorted by points per game?

Think a new scheme, new quarterback and the lack of some suitable players might have had something to do with it?

The only argument required is that we hired a coach who ran a completely different system and brought that to Denver. Seeing as how it was the same system that he used when calling the greatest offense in NFL history I'd say he just might know what he's doing.

Of course. The question is was it necessary to immediatly alter fundamental parts of a young talented offense whose worse problems were inconsistency and immaturity. We know the opinion of one NFL coach with inside knowledge of the team (anyone who messes with the offense is crazy - Shanny's last Bronco press conference). We know McDaniels timeframe on when he wanted to be judged on his changes (he said last offseason to judge him that season). We know why McDaniels decided to mess with it, because he thought his changes would improve red zone scoring and two minute offense, and we know our scoring is now even worse then last years, despite better field position and more turnovers provided by the defense.

By the way, Brian Billick was offensive coordinator for the highest scoring offense in NFL history (at the time) featuring Moss and great complimentary recievers, but I don't respect his work on offense as a head coach much either.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-03-2010, 08:19 AM
Its come to the point that i just click off a thread when i see Mock has posted in it

Rulon Velvet Jones
02-03-2010, 08:30 AM
As a team, including defensive scoring. The offense on it's own was 12th, and a few missed field goals by a young kicker from being top 10. A totally misleading statistic used by those who do not fully understand football, and only wish to criticize Shanahan or Cutler, without true merit.

So, there's a squabble over what essentially amounts to +/- 1.5 points a game?

Rabb
02-03-2010, 08:32 AM
Its come to the point that i just click off a thread when i see Mock has posted in it

unfortunately I have about a dozen or so people I do this with, because on one side or another they just can't help but ****ing bait people and start drama to ruin otherwise solid posts/threads

ThatOneDenverMooseGuy is someone I agree with a lot of the times and like some of his takes, he just gets into these infantile pissing matches with winners like jhns and both sides look retarded.

It's usually a matter of time with any post anymore...can't even enjoy some good football talk.

Pretty sad, but whatever.

Beantown Bronco
02-03-2010, 08:37 AM
he just gets into these infantile pissing matches with winners like jhns and both sides look retarded.

Maybe we should tell that to Rain Man, because he practically bankrupted a casino, and he was a ruh-TARD. :approve:

Rabb
02-03-2010, 08:39 AM
Maybe we should tell that to Rain Man, because he practically bankrupted a casino, and he was a ruh-TARD. :approve:

is this place pager friendly?

Taco John
02-03-2010, 08:47 AM
Anyone notice how most if not ALL the mailbag emails are NEGATIVE?

LOL

God, I hope the team doesn't draft Tebow, but something tells me it will.

What!?

Some of you guys give McDaniels absolutely no credit whatsoever. Tebow!?

strafen
02-03-2010, 09:03 AM
Yet another great contribution from this forum's version of the drunk on the street corner.Stop getting butt-hurt.
People have the right to post, if you don't like it, move on and shut the hell up.
You're one whose only contribution is to attack those who talk about the current desmise of our team.

jhns
02-03-2010, 09:26 AM
unfortunately I have about a dozen or so people I do this with, because on one side or another they just can't help but ****ing bait people and start drama to ruin otherwise solid posts/threads

ThatOneDenverMooseGuy is someone I agree with a lot of the times and like some of his takes, he just gets into these infantile pissing matches with winners like jhns and both sides look retarded.

It's usually a matter of time with any post anymore...can't even enjoy some good football talk.

Pretty sad, but whatever.

I do like to think of myself as a winner.

As far as all of your crying. Maybe someday you will realize a lot of these threads (like this one) were on topic until Moose and your crybaby type joined in with no takes and only insults. Maybe you would like to point out where you and Moose have productive football breakdowns? I don't ever see it.

Did you guys not read the original post? What of my posts were of topic? What part of this thread did I start calling everybody stupid retards? What of my points is so out there that it is just baiting people?

Exactly. Grow up.

strafen
02-03-2010, 09:48 AM
I do like to think of myself as a winner.

As far as all of your crying. Maybe someday you will realize a lot of these threads (like this one) were on topic until Moose and your crybaby type joined in with no takes and only insults. Maybe you would like to point out where you and Moose have productive football breakdowns? I don't ever see it.

Did you guys not read the original post? What of my posts were of topic? What part of this thread did I start calling everybody stupid retards? What of my points is so out there that it is just baiting people?

Exactly. Grow up.The McDaniles sniff-ass connection will not look at guys like moose or tsigay to find fault.
I've been posting here maybe less than 6 months (I've been registered longer) and I've already been accused of running off "good" posters
As much as I like Taco John, this borad already had a reputation of being hostile before I've got here, and still is.

You're never going to win with these people. If you don't support McDaniels, you're out of their exclusive elite circle, hence you're a troublemaker, you know nothing about football, you're a retard and a hater.
When McDaniels screws up, just bring out the pompoms and start cheering. You'll quickly become a good poster and will have a plethora of other posters serving as your personal attorney here. They will gang up on other posters not agreeing with you.

Stay strong, and be your own man!

vancejohnson82
02-03-2010, 10:00 AM
The McDaniles sniff-ass connection will not look at guys like moose or tsigay to find fault.
I've been posting here maybe less than 6 months (I've been registered longer) and I've already been accused of running off "good" posters
As much as I like Taco John, this borad already had a reputation of being hostile before I've got here, and still is.

You're never going to win with these people. If you don't support McDaniels, you're out of their exclusive elite circle, hence you're a troublemaker, you know nothing about football, you're a retard and a hater.
When McDaniels screws up, just bring out the pompoms and start cheering. You'll quickly become a good poster and will have a plethora of other posters serving as your personal attorney here. They will gang up on other posters not agreeing with you.

Stay strong, and be your own man!

no...the problem is that things get pinned on McDaniels that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM.

He changed the offensive scheme...you want to know why? Because Bowlen fired Shanahan and then hired McDaniels to run HIS SCHEME --- Bowlen's decision

Bowlen traded Cutler --- not McDaniels.

Nolan wanted to leave....McDaniels didnt fire him


These are just three examples off the top of my head...

scttgrd
02-03-2010, 10:35 AM
So what has McDaniels done? So far I only see the positive things being attributed to him, but all the controversial ones always seem to be someone elses decision. I am wondering what sign of progress most of you see?

vancejohnson82
02-03-2010, 10:51 AM
So what has McDaniels done? So far I only see the positive things being attributed to him, but all the controversial ones always seem to be someone elses decision. I am wondering what sign of progress most of you see?

listen...the guy hasnt proved ANYTHING yet...at all...I don't think anyone on the "McDaniels Knob-Slobbing Crew" is claiming that.

What we are saying is that he hasn't "ripped apart the organization" or "set this team back two decades." Thats the kind of sentiment that gets me confused.

What has he done?

- instilled a team first attitude (good? maybe...that seems to be an argument)
- made it clear that its HIS team (kinda like Shanny did)
- said the team is going to be a power running team that makes few mistakes and relies on field position
- had a really good FA class last year

thats about it...nothing too special but nothing close to the doom and gloom crowd's view

scttgrd
02-03-2010, 11:00 AM
So basically they still need upgrades on the D-line, and now the O-line needs to be upgraded as well. The offense has regressed at least for now. I like the attitude change of the team, but you can't keep getting rid of talented guys for "team" guys. At some point he has to learn how to work with players of all types. That is what scares alot of people.

I guess the original question is correct. If everything was wrong with this team, then why does a coach take this job knowing there will be no patience for anything but winning. And to make it harder on himself he said to only judge him on his wins. If the team needed a complete overhaul why put that kind of pressure on yourself?

azbroncfan
02-03-2010, 11:02 AM
Wow.

Nolan comes in and makes shiola from shiat and Beavis destroys the offense.

You don't think MCD had any imput on the defense?

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2010, 11:13 AM
So basically they still need upgrades on the D-line, and now the O-line needs to be upgraded as well. The offense has regressed at least for now. I like the attitude change of the team, but you can't keep getting rid of talented guys for "team" guys. At some point he has to learn how to work with players of all types. That is what scares alot of people.

I guess the original question is correct. If everything was wrong with this team, then why does a coach take this job knowing there will be no patience for anything but winning. And to make it harder on himself he said to only judge him on his wins. If the team needed a complete overhaul why put that kind of pressure on yourself?

Agreed, why not go to STL, DET, KFC, or TB if you want to play Extreme Home Makeover?

The Broncos were supposedly the "jewel" of the job openings last offseason.

Unquestioning owner.

YOUNG offensive talent that showed flashes, but needed to mature further and become more consistent.

The defense was horrible 2 years running, but there were a FEW pieces in places to work with.

YOUNG kicker and punter who just needed more seasoning.

Now they're becoming more like the bird crap on your window.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 11:20 AM
Huh. I guess I'm the only one who remembers that Cutler demanded a trade. That he thought the coaches were "acting weird towards" him. That he got his feelings hurt because he may or may not have had his name brought up in a trade discussion.

Seems like he shouldn't be playing football. He can't handle himself as a professional, so why is he a professional athlete?

McD deserves some of the blame too, but Cutler demanded his way out of town. Not sure how you gloss over facts like that.

RaiderH8r
02-03-2010, 11:22 AM
Yeah, because when I think of people who don't know football and who just want to criticize Shanahan or Cutler i think of Mike ****ing Klis.

the stupidity level in here is chest-high.

As soon as you leave it'll drop to ankle deep with the stupidity and McKid bullsh!t.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 11:24 AM
As soon as you leave it'll drop to ankle deep with the stupidity and McKid bull****.

Not if you're still around.

RaiderH8r
02-03-2010, 11:24 AM
Huh. I guess I'm the only one who remembers that Cutler demanded a trade. That he thought the coaches were "acting weird towards" him. That he got his feelings hurt because he may or may not have had his name brought up in a trade discussion.

Seems like he shouldn't be playing football. He can't handle himself as a professional, so why is he a professional athlete?

McD deserves some of the blame too, but Cutler demanded his way out of town. Not sure how you gloss over facts like that.

The entire fiasco began at McKid's behest. McKid made the call, McKid made the inquiries and McKid started the whole thing to bring in Matt "Driftwood" Cassell. WTF was he thinking? Don't know. But if McKid wants to make big moves I expect big results and 2-8 after the bye ain't cutting it. Cutler demanded a trade after it became clear that McKid was not wearing big boy pants and was not a fair broker in any conversation to bring the sides closer together.

RaiderH8r
02-03-2010, 11:29 AM
Not if you're still around.

Pretty weak. That's one step short of, "I know you are but what am I?"

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 11:30 AM
The entire fiasco began at McKid's behest. McKid made the call, McKid made the inquiries and McKid started the whole thing to bring in Matt "Driftwood" Cassell. WTF was he thinking? Don't know. But if McKid wants to make big moves I expect big results and 2-8 after the bye ain't cutting it. Cutler demanded a trade after it became clear that McKid was not wearing big boy pants and was not a fair broker in any conversation to bring the sides closer together.

Naturally, you know for a fact that "McKid" made the call and "started the whole thing," right? I mean, you wouldn't post something as fact when you had no facts to back it up, right?

You wouldn't just spout mindless, repetitive bull**** over and over again without getting the real, authentic truth, right?

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2010, 11:31 AM
Jayby is gone, but he got WAY too asshurt over the trade talks. He got his $30 million...in Chicago.

"The Coach" let it linger too long as well. He got Orton, Ayers...and Smith.

Both parties screwed the pooch on that one though.

oubronco
02-03-2010, 11:34 AM
The only argument required is that we hired a coach who ran a completely different system and brought that to Denver. Seeing as how it was the same system that he used when calling the greatest offense in NFL history I'd say he just might know what he's doing.

I think Bill Belicheck had more to do with that than you think

scttgrd
02-03-2010, 11:37 AM
Jayby is gone, but he got WAY too asshurt over the trade talks. He got his $30 million...in Chicago.

"The Coach" let it linger too long as well. He got Kyle Orton and...Robert Ayers.

Both parties screwed the pooch on that one though.

Exactly right, but Culter gets all the hate and the coach gets a pass. I don't care that they traded Cutler. But you only make that kind of trade if it makes the team better. So far I don't see any overall improvement.

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2010, 11:52 AM
Exactly right, but Culter gets all the hate and the coach gets a pass. I don't care that they traded Cutler. But you only make that kind of trade if it makes the team better. So far I don't see any overall improvement.

Well, those two first round picks SHOULD'VE been parlayed into more picks.

Instead, they were used 1 for 1.

There was a real chance to stock up on picks/talent, but it was missed.

scttgrd
02-03-2010, 11:59 AM
Well, those two first round picks SHOULD'VE been parlayed into more picks.

Instead, they were used 1 for 1.

There was a real chance to stock up on picks/talent, but it was missed.

And that is what has a lot of fans concerned. Not only did the D-line not get addressed the way it needed to be, picks for next year were used on positions of strenth. Now they come into this draft with as many or more needs as last year, and are talking about trading away more talented players that will be tough to replace.

jhns
02-03-2010, 12:15 PM
What is funny is even McDaniels knows he f'd up.

When asked when it would be in the best interest of the Broncos to get rid of Cutler, he replied "Never."

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/2125/mcdaniels-handles-cutler-circus

I know you all like to argue but let's see you argue with that. I didn't see the reply: "When he cries a little more and doesn't return a phone call."

McDaniels also said Cutler was a selling point for this job. He must not be able to judge QBs from what everyone here is saying. A turnover machine that can't play was a selling point?

Then later Bowlen says: "He has made some rookie mistakes but".... I'm sure he was saying that because the whole Cutler situation was his own fault. You know, I usually take ownership of stuff by saying others made mistakes.

Try arguing against the coach you are all trying to defend.

Now we have an entire offense that regressed. Every young offensive player outside of Marshall regressed. The "positive" fans actually think it is being a good fan to throw all of the other players under the bus and act like Orton and McDaniels aren't the problem. So the two that have been with this team the least amount of time need to be backed while we throw everyone else under the bus? This is what makes you positive? I don't see it. I think guys like Royal can still play when they have a coach that puts them in position to make plays and a QB that can get the ball to them. Our o-line would not have had this much trouble with Cutler. They didn't all suddenly get worse. Zone blocking is a running scheme. Their pass pro also went to crap.

RaiderH8r
02-03-2010, 12:20 PM
Naturally, you know for a fact that "McKid" made the call and "started the whole thing," right? I mean, you wouldn't post something as fact when you had no facts to back it up, right?

You wouldn't just spout mindless, repetitive bull**** over and over again without getting the real, authentic truth, right?

Yep, he was even "late to the game" in making the call and still f'ed it all up. It was awe inspiring in its way really. McKid was anti-Midas in that whole deal. Everything he touched turned to crap.

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2010, 12:20 PM
And that is what has a lot of fans concerned. Not only did the D-line not get addressed the way it needed to be, picks for next year were used on positions of strenth. Now they come into this draft with as many or more needs as last year, and are talking about trading away more talented players that will be tough to replace.

Should be a great draft!

Maybe they'll move up to 35 names on this year's LIST.

If you knew you were going in semi-blind to the 2009 draft, why not trade down or trade out altogether? Especially with the high picks.

Not picking up defensive line help at the nose was inexcusable.

RaiderH8r
02-03-2010, 12:25 PM
Should be a great draft!

Maybe they'll move up to 35 names on this year's LIST.

If you knew you were going in semi-blind to the 2009 draft, why not trade down or trade out altogether? Especially with the high picks.

Not picking up defensive line help at the nose was inexcusable.

I'm just hoping they can trade a first round pick to move up in the second round to take a third rate talent. That would be awesome. That was an Al Davisian move. Pulling it twice would be epic.

Rabb
02-03-2010, 12:30 PM
you guys are pretty ****ing pathetic

oubronco
02-03-2010, 12:30 PM
Why did McDaniels come here?

Probably because we were the first team to offer him a HC job, not to mention complete control of all football operations (something unheard of for a rookie HC)?

That'd be my guess.

scttgrd
02-03-2010, 12:37 PM
you guys are pretty ****ing pathetic

See, now this is exactly what some around here laugh at. Nothing to say but insults. Defend your position, but why bring the insults? Your doing exactly what you complain about.

jhns
02-03-2010, 12:40 PM
See, now this is exactly what some around here laugh at. Nothing to say but insults. Defend your position, but why bring the insults? Your doing exactly what you complain about.

You didn't know? The new standard is to never post anything related to football and just run around insulting everyone. If you do that, you are a good poster that is helping the board be a great place for discussion.

TDmvp
02-03-2010, 12:42 PM
Why did McDaniels come here?

God hates me ...

Paladin
02-03-2010, 12:46 PM
There used to be some mature people around here. Now there are only teenagers and other retards.

bronco610
02-03-2010, 12:57 PM
There used to be some mature people around here. Now there are only teenagers and other retards.

I resent that :wave:

LonghornBronco
02-03-2010, 01:00 PM
The argument over how successful the offense was in 08 is a hard one to settle. So I looked at the stats from a different perspective. yards per play, and 3rd down efficiency. I think these two stats above the others really isolates the offense as much as could be. It turns out Denver was second in the league in both these stats.

Invariably I have to side with the McD bashers and say the offense has taken a step back. But, as is sometimes the case when you change system/phelosephies (sp?) you can expect that. I'd say this comming year will tells us alot about the so called Offensive genius.

jhns
02-03-2010, 01:03 PM
I resent that :wave:

Immaturity is ruining the boards you retard. Please stop with these immature resposes dummy poo-pee head! If everyone posted mature like me, we would have a much better board. Got it stupid?

Rabb
02-03-2010, 01:17 PM
See, now this is exactly what some around here laugh at. Nothing to say but insults. Defend your position, but why bring the insults? Your doing exactly what you complain about.

sure, ok

it is pointless to defend any position here, it all falls upon deaf ears

instead the popular thing to do is hate on the team, any moves they make and dwell on the past

but you're right, I am the problem

kamakazi_kal
02-03-2010, 01:21 PM
sure, ok

it is pointless to defend any position here, it all falls upon deaf ears

instead the popular thing to do is hate on the team, any moves they make and dwell on the past

but you're right, I am the problem

I think the majority of this board is willing to swollow anything the FO or McD spew....... just saying. Your not the problem. The people who question are.

bronco610
02-03-2010, 01:26 PM
Immaturity is ruining the boards you retard. Please stop with these immature resposes dummy poo-pee head! If everyone posted mature like me, we would have a much better board. Got it stupid?

Please see post #586
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=88748&page=24

scttgrd
02-03-2010, 01:30 PM
sure, ok

it is pointless to defend any position here, it all falls upon deaf ears

instead the popular thing to do is hate on the team, any moves they make and dwell on the past

but you're right, I am the problem

Ok, like I asked earlier. What do you see in this team and coach that makes you think there will be a marked improvement on both sides of the ball?

Rabb
02-03-2010, 01:57 PM
Ok, like I asked earlier. What do you see in this team and coach that makes you think there will be a marked improvement on both sides of the ball?

well to begin with, our defense was light years ahead of the 08' squad

I also like the power scheme for blocking over the ZBS, I think it will suit a guy like Moreno far better and really pay off once we get some interior line improvement (knock on wood)

I also like what he has done with a guy like Orton, who isn't the most talented in the world but had a good year and was the least of our issues

not to mention, I think McDaniels has a contagious passion that this team was lacking, and he also recognizes the importance of veteran leadership which the team was also lacking

yeah, he dismantled the offense from last season but in the long run I think it will pay off...for him to take the team to 8-8 after those major changes, is amazing

scttgrd
02-03-2010, 02:13 PM
I can agree with a lot of that, but what concerns me is the use of the guys he had to work with. Why make such dramatic changes if you don't have the guys to run it. Also not being able to find more of a role for the talent you have.

I can't see Orton as along term solution, the guy is average and needs to be managed closely to keep him from making the game changing mistake.

Rabb
02-03-2010, 02:17 PM
I agree with you actually, there was some talent I wished he had used more also. I am just not sure about Orton either way yet myself. I really want to like the guy...actually I DO like him, he seems like a genuinely good guy and leader but I don't really understand yet whether McD limited his down field throws because of confidence...or just not wanting to do it.

This year will tell me a lot, if McD is what he seems to be...Orton should be improved this season in every aspect.

jhns
02-03-2010, 02:23 PM
Please see post #586
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=88748&page=24

I fail to see how this is relavant to me making fun of Paladins post.

jhns
02-03-2010, 02:28 PM
well to begin with, our defense was light years ahead of the 08' squad

I also like the power scheme for blocking over the ZBS, I think it will suit a guy like Moreno far better and really pay off once we get some interior line improvement (knock on wood)

I also like what he has done with a guy like Orton, who isn't the most talented in the world but had a good year and was the least of our issues

not to mention, I think McDaniels has a contagious passion that this team was lacking, and he also recognizes the importance of veteran leadership which the team was also lacking

yeah, he dismantled the offense from last season but in the long run I think it will pay off...for him to take the team to 8-8 after those major changes, is amazing

So in other words you have a bunch of feelings and nothing real to go off of? Nice you retard McFagg. This board is filled with idiots.

Am I posting better now?

bronco610
02-03-2010, 02:42 PM
I fail to see how this is relavant to me making fun of Paladins post.

Your as un-yielding as the posters you call out. If someone supports McD. they are ignorant according to you, or can't think for themselves. They can't see the forest for the trees that McD is causing the down fall of the organization.
So if the Broncos turn it around in the next couple of years and are back in the play offs will you be a supporter then?

I am no big fan of McD.s but I am willing to see where this goes.

If you hate the Broncos now you should have been around in 1968 thru 1974.

My question to you is why must a judgement be made either way right now. Give it 2 years then see.

scttgrd
02-03-2010, 02:50 PM
I agree with you actually, there was some talent I wished he had used more also. I am just not sure about Orton either way yet myself. I really want to like the guy...actually I DO like him, he seems like a genuinely good guy and leader but I don't really understand yet whether McD limited his down field throws because of confidence...or just not wanting to do it.

This year will tell me a lot, if McD is what he seems to be...Orton should be improved this season in every aspect.

I liked the guy too, I was hopefull he could come in and use his system to make the improvements in the offense it needed. I was even more happy when Nolan was brought in. I was not happy with the way the Cutler thing went down but they got picks back that could have hurried the changes and improvement. It just didn't work out that way. This is going to take time, and most of us aren't willing to watch him learn on the job the next few years.

jhns
02-03-2010, 02:51 PM
Your as un-yielding as the posters you call out. If someone supports McD. they are ignorant according to you, or can't think for themselves. They can't see the forest for the trees that McD is causing the down fall of the organization.
So if the Broncos turn it around in the next couple of years and are back in the play offs will you be a supporter then?

I am no big fan of McD.s but I am willing to see where this goes.

If you hate the Broncos now you should have been around in 1968 thru 1974.

My question to you is why must a judgement be made either way right now. Give it 2 years then see.

I do not call people dumb for disagreeing with me. I do not just cry and insult because I have a different take. I give my take back. Do you want to show me where I did that and wasn't making fun of the children that come in and do it?

Why must I judge now? Because that is my opinion.

Rabb
02-03-2010, 02:52 PM
I liked the guy too, I was hopefull he could come in and use his system to make the improvements in the offense it needed. I was even more happy when Nolan was brought in. I was not happy with the way the Cutler thing went down but they got picks back that could have hurried the changes and improvement. It just didn't work out that way. This is going to take time, and most of us aren't willing to watch him learn on the job the next few years.

can't argue with you there

this year is pretty pivotal really, for the franchise

Paladin
02-03-2010, 02:54 PM
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DenverBrit
02-03-2010, 02:56 PM
God hates me ...

God apparently works in mysterious ways. ;D

DenverBrit
02-03-2010, 03:00 PM
Why did McDaniels come here?


LOL

To piss off the Drama Queens and Whiners. :peace:

http://www.slublog.com/archives/Mission%20Accomplished.jpg

jhns
02-03-2010, 03:10 PM
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LOL

That did you a lot of good huh?

misturanderson
02-03-2010, 03:10 PM
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I wish more people would take your lead.

GeniusatWork
02-03-2010, 03:11 PM
Agreed, why not go to STL, DET, KFC, or TB if you want to play Extreme Home Makeover?

The Broncos were supposedly the "jewel" of the job openings last offseason.

Unquestioning owner.

YOUNG offensive talent that showed flashes, but needed to mature further and become more consistent.

The defense was horrible 2 years running, but there were a FEW pieces in places to work with.

YOUNG kicker and punter who just needed more seasoning.

Now they're becoming more like the bird crap on your window.

These type of ridiculous statemets are why some people consider you, dragster, jhns, colnelbeef, rastaman fools and ridicule you.

DenverBrit
02-03-2010, 03:12 PM
I wish more people would take your lead.

It's a growth industry. ;D

bronco610
02-03-2010, 03:12 PM
I do not call people dumb for disagreeing with me. I do not just cry and insult because I have a different take. I give my take back. Do you want to show me where I did that and wasn't making fun of the children that come in and do it?

Why must I judge now? Because that is my opinion.

Fair enough.

Still can you answer the question?

So if the Broncos turn it around in the next couple of years and are back in the play offs will you be a supporter then?

GeniusatWork
02-03-2010, 03:23 PM
The entire fiasco began at McKid's behest. McKid made the call, McKid made the inquiries and McKid started the whole thing to bring in Matt "Driftwood" Cassell. WTF was he thinking? Don't know. But if McKid wants to make big moves I expect big results and 2-8 after the bye ain't cutting it. Cutler demanded a trade after it became clear that McKid was not wearing big boy pants and was not a fair broker in any conversation to bring the sides closer together.

Again with the ridiculous statements.

The 2-8 I agree with.

Requiem
02-03-2010, 03:27 PM
I don't know about you, but I think Josh McDaniels came here to coach some football.

jhns
02-03-2010, 03:32 PM
Fair enough.

Still can you answer the question?

So if the Broncos turn it around in the next couple of years and are back in the play offs will you be a supporter then?

I was a supporter when I saw the defense(new scheme and a LOT more new players BTW, funny they didn't need these excuses) McDaniels was putting together. I then found out his hand picked defensive staff and him couldn't even work together. So now we have regressed on offense and have no direction or stability on defense for the 4th offseason in a row.

Yes, I will support him if I think he is doing things correctly. Between the Cutler thing, all of our young offensive players regressing, and now the defense becoming a revolving door yet again, I don't feel he is good for this team right now.

Honestly, I would be a supporter tomorrow if he showed he didn't honestly think Orton was the answer here. I would take Vick over Orton and that is saying something.

Requiem
02-03-2010, 03:38 PM
All of our young offensive players regressing? Who? Eddie Royal? Keep reachin'.

bronco610
02-03-2010, 03:40 PM
I was a supporter when I saw the defense(new scheme and a LOT more new players BTW, funny they didn't need these excuses) McDaniels was putting together. I then found out his hand picked defensive staff and him couldn't even work together. So now we have regressed on offense and have no direction or stability on defense for the 4th offseason in a row.

Yes, I will support him if I think he is doing things correctly. Between the Cutler thing, all of our young offensive players regressing, and now the defense becoming a revolving door yet again, I don't feel he is good for this team right now.

Honestly, I would be a supporter tomorrow if he showed he didn't honestly think Orton was the answer here. I would take Vick over Orton and that is saying something.

While I am not a big Orton fan and would rather see Brandstarter I def. do not want vick. As far as Nolan goes he did a good job but this defense still needs an infusion of talent. I will how ever say if orton beats out Brandsarter in camp then we need a QB. Orton is average and that is all.

jhns
02-03-2010, 04:04 PM
All of our young offensive players regressing? Who? Eddie Royal? Keep reachin'.

I would say all 3 young o-linemen looked worse. Royal looked far worse. Sheffler looked a little worse. Hillis looked a lot worse. Who exactly does that leave? Marshall? I said he didn't regress. I guess Larsen didn't regress either. He was doing good when playing FB.

strafen
02-03-2010, 05:14 PM
While I am not a big Orton fan and would rather see Brandstarter I def. do not want vick. As far as Nolan goes he did a good job but this defense still needs an infusion of talent. I will how ever say if orton beats out Brandsarter in camp then we need a QB. Orton is average and that is all.I think if Brandstater gets a legit shot at competing for the starting QB position that he will easily beat out Orton.
Brandstater wasn't in the plans to compete last year. He was presumed to learn the position while practicing with the second team.
I think this year he will have his chance...

wandlc
02-03-2010, 08:52 PM
2008 40 Offensive TDs, 25 FGs, 22.19 ppg
2009 30 Offensive TDs, 30 FGs, 18.75 ppg

I would agree that the offense regressed.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 09:47 PM
I think if Brandstater gets a legit shot at competing for the starting QB position that he will easily beat out Orton.
Brandstater wasn't in the plans to compete last year. He was presumed to learn the position while practicing with the second team.
I think this year he will have his chance...

Yes, should be no problem for the kid who couldn't beat out Simms -- who looked like a double amputee playing quarterback -- to beat out Orton for the starting job. I don't think that's a stretch at all.

SoCalBronco
02-03-2010, 09:56 PM
Yes, should be no problem for the kid who couldn't beat out Simms -- who looked like a double amputee playing quarterback -- to beat out Orton for the starting job. I don't think that's a stretch at all.

Poor argument. A QB's best growth spurt from a mental perspective is generally believed to be between the 1st and 2nd year. The vast majority of rookie QB's will be crap their first year...much less 6th rounders. Tom has some physical skills the other two don't, so there's reason to think he might be able to compete. Will he win? I don't know....but Orton isn't exactly a badass...to put it nicely, so its well within the realm of possibility.

In all honesty, Denver needs to find a realistic option for the future. Unfortunately, the most gifted QB with the biggest upside (Jake Locker) did not come out this year. There might be some prospects worth looking at, though.

bronco610
02-03-2010, 10:10 PM
Poor argument. A QB's best growth spurt from a mental perspective is generally believed to be between the 1st and 2nd year. The vast majority of rookie QB's will be crap their first year...much less 6th rounders. Tom has some physical skills the other two don't, so there's reason to think he might be able to compete. Will he win? I don't know....but Orton isn't exactly a badass...to put it nicely, so its well within the realm of possibility.

In all honesty, Denver needs to find a realistic option for the future. Unfortunately, the most gifted QB with the biggest upside (Jake Locker) did not come out this year. There might be some prospects worth looking at, though.

This. Plus with the chance of a rookie payscale for future drafted QB's why would you take a chance this year with the marginal talent coming out?

bronco610
02-03-2010, 10:13 PM
Yes, should be no problem for the kid who couldn't beat out Simms -- who looked like a double amputee playing quarterback -- to beat out Orton for the starting job. I don't think that's a stretch at all.

Look, I dont like some of the posters on this board either but if Dragster comes out with an actual football take that isnt polarized or insulting why should you be?

bronco610
02-03-2010, 10:14 PM
I think if Brandstater gets a legit shot at competing for the starting QB position that he will easily beat out Orton.
Brandstater wasn't in the plans to compete last year. He was presumed to learn the position while practicing with the second team.
I think this year he will have his chance...

Kind of what Im hoping.

DBroncos4life
02-03-2010, 11:02 PM
Yes, should be no problem for the kid who couldn't beat out Simms -- who looked like a double amputee playing quarterback -- to beat out Orton for the starting job. I don't think that's a stretch at all.

Well considering Simms was the highest paid QB last year I highly doubt Brandstater would have been given that great of a shot to compete.

Taco John
02-04-2010, 12:15 AM
Well considering Simms was the highest paid QB last year I highly doubt Brandstater would have been given that great of a shot to compete.


A JMcD tattoo on your off ankle will get you places in this league.

tsiguy96
02-04-2010, 03:11 AM
Poor argument. A QB's best growth spurt from a mental perspective is generally believed to be between the 1st and 2nd year. The vast majority of rookie QB's will be crap their first year...much less 6th rounders. Tom has some physical skills the other two don't, so there's reason to think he might be able to compete. Will he win? I don't know....but Orton isn't exactly a badass...to put it nicely, so its well within the realm of possibility.

In all honesty, Denver needs to find a realistic option for the future. Unfortunately, the most gifted QB with the biggest upside (Jake Locker) did not come out this year. There might be some prospects worth looking at, though.


true dat. the problem is, orton did just have a decent year, it would be hard for him to bench orton for an untested brandstater right out of the gate. if brandstater gets a shot this year, it wont be until later in the season.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2010, 06:52 AM
Look, I dont like some of the posters on this board either but if Dragster comes out with an actual football take that isnt polarized or insulting why should you be?

My take wasn't intended to be polarizing.

Regardless of a quarterback's first-year development, he could NOT have done worse than Simms. I cannot believe that he would have done worse than Simms. Did you watch Simms play? He was FIVE TO TEN seconds behind on every single play. He held on to the ball too long. he stared down his receivers. He was playing WORSE than a sixth round rookie. He was playing like a JuCo Freshman. Seriously.

And Brandstater couldn't beat him out for the rights to the second string job?

Nobody finds it odd that we haven't heard ANYTHING about Brandstater since training camp?

Look man, it would be great if he panned out. I think relying on that is dodgy at best.

strafen
02-04-2010, 08:23 AM
Yes, should be no problem for the kid who couldn't beat out Simms -- who looked like a double amputee playing quarterback -- to beat out Orton for the starting job. I don't think that's a stretch at all.WTH are you talking about?
The competition last year for the starting QB position for the Denver Broncos was a two-way race between Orton and Simms from the get-go.

Orton beat out Simms for the job. Simms became the back-up QB, Brandstater was not a part of the competition for the starting job
I went to training camp and TB was always practicing with the 2nd and 3rd teams.
He wasn't even given a shot to practice with the first unit...

strafen
02-04-2010, 08:27 AM
Look, I dont like some of the posters on this board either but if Dragster comes out with an actual football take that isnt polarized or insulting why should you be?Thanks man. I appreciate that...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2010, 11:43 AM
WTH are you talking about?
The competition last year for the starting QB position for the Denver Broncos was a two-way race between Orton and Simms from the get-go.

Orton beat out Simms for the job. Simms became the back-up QB, Brandstater was not a part of the competition for the starting job
I went to training camp and TB was always practicing with the 2nd and 3rd teams.
He wasn't even given a shot to practice with the first unit...

Teams juggle the depth chart all the time, even for the quarterback position, ESPECIALLY when a player shows that he can't get the job done at all, as Simms did during his limited shot.

Now, even though Simms looked like utter dog **** (most people here were calling for him to be cut), why did he retain his job? Why wasn't he overtaken by Brandstater?

Answer: Because Brandstater isn't ready. He's a project. If he was even close to being ready, we would have seen him move up.

/shrug

strafen
02-04-2010, 01:25 PM
Teams juggle the depth chart all the time, even for the quarterback position, ESPECIALLY when a player shows that he can't get the job done at all, as Simms did during his limited shot.

Now, even though Simms looked like utter dog **** (most people here were calling for him to be cut), why did he retain his job? Why wasn't he overtaken by Brandstater?

Answer: Because Brandstater isn't ready. He's a project. If he was even close to being ready, we would have seen him move up.

/shrug
You're right. You're backing up my point. Brandstater wasn't ready. That's another reason why he was not thrown into the competition circle.
That's why he never practiced with the first unit.
Why are you then making such a big deal about him not beating out Simms?

If what you're contending now is that Brandstater should've moved up the depth chart after Simms performance is kind of an unjust statement; you just can't judge a guy for just one game given the history of Simms career in the last few years.
Simms had a better pre-season IMO than Orton.
We can sit over here and judge all we want, but ultimately it was McDaniels decision to keep Simms as his 2nd string QB. A coach decision.
I thought you should know by now how McDaniels operates. See: Moreno...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2010, 01:55 PM
You're right. You're backing up my point. Brandstater wasn't ready. That's another reason why he was not thrown into the competition circle.
That's why he never practiced with the first unit.
Why are you then making such a big deal about him not beating out Simms?

If what you're contending now is that Brandstater should've moved up the depth chart after Simms performance is kind of an unjust statement; you just can't judge a guy for just one game given the history of Simms career in the last few years.
Simms had a better pre-season IMO than Orton.
We can sit over here and judge all we want, but ultimately it was McDaniels decision to keep Simms as his 2nd string QB. A coach decision.
I thought you should know by now how McDaniels operates. See: Moreno...

Oh boy, another Hillis defender.

We finally have an answer to the question, "Why did McDaniels come here?"

Answer: To keep the white man down.

Whew. Thank god.

As for Simms/Brandstater, if B-stater was ready for a STARTING job, or even anything CLOSE to a starting job, he would have been moved up the depth chart. That is the point.

Simms looked TERRIBLE. He got a full week of reps and looked WORSE than when he came in relief. I mean... it's not rocket science here.

Gob
02-04-2010, 02:56 PM
Oh boy, another Hillis defender.

We finally have an answer to the question, "Why did McDaniels come here?"

Answer: To keep the white man down.

Whew. Thank god.



Oh boy, another Hillis deflection.

We finally have an answer to the question, "Why did ThatOneDenverMooseGuy come here?"

Answer: To defend Royal, Alf Smith, and Moreno from any criticism of a subpar year, and make every conversation about Hillis into a conspiracy or race issue.

Whew. Thank god.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2010, 03:04 PM
Oh boy, another Hillis deflection.

We finally have an answer to the question, "Why did ThatOneDenverMooseGuy come here?"

Answer: To defend Royal, Alf Smith, and Moreno from any criticism of a subpar year, and make every conversation about Hillis into a conspiracy or race issue.

Whew. Thank god.

Really? I defended Royal, Smith and Moreno? Where did I do that?

rastaman
02-05-2010, 07:40 AM
well to begin with, our defense was light years ahead of the 08' squad

I also like the power scheme for blocking over the ZBS, I think it will suit a guy like Moreno far better and really pay off once we get some interior line improvement (knock on wood)

I also like what he has done with a guy like Orton, who isn't the most talented in the world but had a good year and was the least of our issues

not to mention, I think McDaniel's has a contagious passion that this team was lacking, and he also recognizes the importance of veteran leadership which the team was also lacking

yeah, he dismantled the offense from last season but in the long run I think it will pay off...for him to take the team to 8-8 after those major changes, is amazing

Oh BS! You can continue to hug McD's Nut sack if you want to.....but the facts remain that after the bye week McD-Look-at-me! Lead and managed the Broncos to a 2-8 RECORD!

Tell ya what! This contagious passion you rail about on behalf of McD is a coaching style grown men in the NFL will more than likely grow tired of. After all this is the NFL not college or H.S. The last game against KC showed the team had QUIT on McDaniel's. How does a team with a unproven egotistical HC allow themselves to get blown-out by the KC's 44-24 with PLAYOFF implications on the line? Where was all the contagious-passion to win? Where did it all of sudden vanish to?

Could the team have quit on McD b/c they were tired of his endless high pitched voice of Rah-Rah College contagious passion? McD has got some work to do next season thats for sure. McD is going to realize that to win in the NFL you need an even balance of star players and team players.

Thus far McD has brought in his NE castoff team players, has added some wily over the hill veterans looking to milk as many million dollar paychecks as possible; while alienating his star players. Thats a recipe for disaster in the star driven player NFL.

McD is running out of people to blame for his incompetence. But hey if you want to buy a ticket on the McTitantic you go right ahead, just don't get pissed off on the people who don't buy any Tickets along with you and your ilk!