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ZONA
02-03-2010, 12:31 AM
Just going through several mock drafts and finding the players that have been slotted to go in the high to mid 1st round and trying to see where the Broncos might go if no trade down is available (and not saying the would anyway).

This first list of guys, it's pretty much a given they won't be there at #11.

Ndamukong Suh (DT)
Gerald McCoy (DT)
Eric Berry (S)

This second list of guys I would assume the Broncos are not interested in.


Russell Okung (OT)
Anothony Davis (OT)
Trent Williams (OT)
CJ Spiler (RB)
Bryan Bulaga (OT)


So I'm thinking this is what the Broncos are going to be realistically looking at come pick #11. Obviously some of these players on this list will be gone already but this is what they will be trying to break down and who best fills a need and is the better value.

Joe Haden (CB)
Derrick Morgan (DE)
Sam Bradford (QB)
Jimmy Clausen (QB)
Dez Bryant (WR)
Jason Pierre-Paul (DE)
Rolando McClain (ILB)
Carlos Dunlap (DE)
Everson Griffen (DE)
Earl Thomas (S)
Brian Price (DT)
Dan Williams (DT)
Taylor Mays (S)

We can break it down further and just assume the Broncos are happy right now with their starters and depth at CB and S. So let's remove Mays, Thomas and Haden.

Derrick Morgan (DE)
Sam Bradford (QB)
Jimmy Clausen (QB)
Dez Bryant (WR)
Jason Pierre-Paul (DE)
Rolando McClain (ILB)
Carlos Dunlap (DE)
Everson Griffen (DE)
Brian Price (DT)
Dan Williams (DT)

Can we break it down further? I'm going to say that Morgan at only 270 and Pierre-Paul at only 260 won't hold up as a 3-4 DE so I think we pass on them.

So that leaves....

Sam Bradford (QB)
Jimmy Clausen (QB)
Dez Bryant (WR)
Rolando McClain (ILB)
Carlos Dunlap (DE)
Everson Griffen (DE)
Brian Price (DT)
Dan Williams (DT)

Is this what the Broncos board might look like, if they had to pick at #11, would this be the short list they would have to work with. It could be that Clausen, Bradford and McClain are gone, maybe leaving a S, RB and OT on the baord instead, but we won't go there I venture to say. It could very well come down to us having to pick between these guys.


Dez Bryant (WR)
Carlos Dunlap (DE)
Everson Griffen (DE)
Brian Price (DT)
Dan Williams (DT)

To me, Bryant is the only one who represents true value at #11. Dunalp (6'6 290) and Griffen (6'4 280) both can play in a 3-4 but is that too high to pick a DE for a 3-4? Price seems more like a natural fit as NT in a 4-3 since he goes 295.

And Williams is projected to go late first round so getting him at #11 fills a need but not getting the best value.

The more I look at this, the more it makes sense to trade down if we can. That is, if Clausen, Bradford and McClain are gone when we pick.

strafen
02-03-2010, 12:40 AM
Rolando McClain, Carlos Dunlap, and Lupati would be in my wish list in the first round.
No need to draft a WR or secondary as it's the front line we need immediate help along with the OL

Whatever happened to Taylor Mays' stock this year. He was highly touted last year before he decided to stey in school one more year?

TheReverend
02-03-2010, 12:47 AM
Rolando McClain, Carlos Dunlap, and Lupati would be in my wish list in the first round.
No need to draft a WR or secondary as it's the front line we need immediate help along with the OL

Whatever happened to Taylor Mays' stock this year. He was highly touted last year before he decided to stey in school one more year?

Extremely competitive class.

This is a really, really, REALLY strong draft

strafen
02-03-2010, 12:50 AM
Extremely competitive class.

This is a really, really, REALLY strong draftFor the need of our team right now, it is. I agree.
Last year it was very deep and rich on defense, and we missed the boat.
Let's hope we can redeem ourselves this year and make it right...

TheReverend
02-03-2010, 12:55 AM
For the need of our team right now, it is. I agree.
Last year it was very deep and rich on defense, and we missed the boat.
Let's hope we can redeem ourselves this year and make it right...

For the need of EVERY team. With the pending CBA negotiations and the owners wanting to put a significantly cheaper slotted pay scale in for rookies, they're all out of the wood work and declaring looking to get paid.

If we're going to lose any of our superstar players, getting pick compensation BEFORE the draft will be paramount to Denver's future success, and as adverse as I usually am to trading down, this year is the year that I hope to god we manuever day one of draft day like Jenna Jameson in a banana peeling contest.

Pick Six
02-03-2010, 01:03 AM
Just say "no" to Dez Bryant and his agent...ugh!~

bap454
02-03-2010, 01:16 AM
I think its a givin that Bradford wont be there at 10/11. I totally agree with you on value at that point for us.... so my question is this, If Clausen is there at 10/11 and the 5 you guys you list as "our pool to pick from" are left, could we possibly draft Clausen at that point? In reallity my question should be .... can we not pick Clausen at that point with whats left on the board??


BTW... nice post.

NFLBRONCO
02-03-2010, 01:21 AM
If McClain is gone at 11 I think Spiller and Dez are BPA at 11 which most want to pass one. Is it a bad practice to pass BPA over and draft need with top pick.

BroncoMan4ever
02-03-2010, 01:48 AM
If McClain is gone at 11 I think Spiller and Dez are BPA at 11 which most want to pass one. Is it a bad practice to pass BPA over and draft need with top pick.

McDaniels showed last season he will take the player he likes best and thinks the team needs the most when he is on the clock. so while 11 may be early for a Guard. i am expecting Iupati at 11. if he goes BPA it will be Bryant.

watermock
02-03-2010, 02:52 AM
Beavis won't take anyone without performing the "sniff test".

He seems to draft thru scent...

BroncoMan4ever
02-03-2010, 03:08 AM
Beavis won't take anyone without performing the "sniff test".

He seems to draft thru scent...

do you seriously have nothing better to do than bitch and moan about all things McDaniels?

Traveler
02-03-2010, 04:46 AM
Seems like everyone is assuming that Denver gets the 11th pick. Why? Have they flipped the coin already?

watermock
02-03-2010, 04:55 AM
do you seriously have nothing better to do than b**** and moan about all things McDaniels?

Not really. He's an idiot.

Ray Finkle
02-03-2010, 05:09 AM
Not really. He's an idiot.

Takes one to know one....:yayaya:

HILife
02-03-2010, 06:42 AM
For the need of EVERY team. With the pending CBA negotiations and the owners wanting to put a significantly cheaper slotted pay scale in for rookies, they're all out of the wood work and declaring looking to get paid.

If we're going to lose any of our superstar players, getting pick compensation BEFORE the draft will be paramount to Denver's future success, and as adverse as I usually am to trading down, this year is the year that I hope to god we manuever day one of draft day like Jenna Jameson in a banana peeling contest.

lol

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2010, 07:28 AM
Extremely competitive class.

This is a really, really, REALLY strong draft


That fact makes me so happy the Broncos got Fonzie Smith!

Ballhawk my azz.

broncofan7
02-03-2010, 07:36 AM
That fact makes me so happy the Broncos got Fonzie Smith!

Ballhawk my azz.
10/11 and 14 look mighty good right about now.....especially considering that so many rookie DB's outperformed Fonzie last season....but I like BPA @ 10/11. After that, start drafting for need........OL, DL

Ray Finkle
02-03-2010, 07:36 AM
That fact makes me so happy the Broncos got Fonzie Smith!

Ballhawk my azz.

give the guy more than one year.....

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 07:37 AM
do you seriously have nothing better to do than b**** and moan about all things McDaniels?

Are you new to the Mane?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 07:38 AM
give the guy more than one year.....

But they want to bitch and moan and cry NOW!

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2010, 07:42 AM
10/11 and 14 look mighty good right about now.....especially considering that so many rookie DB's outperformed Fonzie last season....but I like BPA @ 10/11. After that, start drafting for need........OL, DL

He might turn out to be a decent player, but you should be getting more than DECENT at the #37 pick.

When something bad happened on defense/special teams, he was usually involved.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 07:48 AM
He might turn out to be a decent player, but you should be getting more than DECENT at the #37 pick.

When something bad happened on defense/special teams, he was usually involved.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Is that a fact?

Let's see... when Sproles broke that return for a TD in San Diego, do you know who was responsible? I'll give you a hint: It wasn't Smith.

It was Mr. Holes in his Hands himself Peyton Hillis Christ.

If you get a solid player at 37, you're happy. If he contributes for 5-7 years, you're happy.

broncofan7
02-03-2010, 07:51 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Is that a fact?

Let's see... when Sproles broke that return for a TD in San Diego, do you know who was responsible? I'll give you a hint: It wasn't Smith.

It was Mr. Holes in his Hands himself Peyton Hillis Christ.

If you get a solid player at 37, you're happy. If he contributes for 5-7 years, you're happy.

we traded the rights to draft @ #14 this yr for the rights to draft @ #37 last yr--that is failure enough in itself. Coupled with Fonzie being unable to even be our nickelback--and it is a McGenius level of failure.

mr007
02-03-2010, 07:52 AM
Extremely competitive class.

This is a really, really, REALLY strong draft

Yes and imagine if we had that 2nd 1st!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 07:55 AM
we traded the rights to draft @ #14 this yr for the rights to draft @ #37 last yr--that is failure enough in itself. Coupled with Fonzie being unable to even be our nickelback--and it is a McGenius level of failure.

Yeah. Too bad careers in the NFL last more than just a rookie season, huh BowelMovement?

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2010, 07:58 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Is that a fact?

Let's see... when Sproles broke that return for a TD in San Diego, do you know who was responsible? I'll give you a hint: It wasn't Smith.

It was Mr. Holes in his Hands himself Peyton Hillis Christ.

If you get a solid player at 37, you're happy. If he contributes for 5-7 years, you're happy.

I guess I was the only one who saw Washington turn him into a pretzel REPEATEDLY in the Ravens game.

How many penalties did he have in the first KC game? 2? 3? I lost track.

Guess who gets toasted on 3rd and long by Collie to jump start the Colts final scoring drive? I'll give you a hint. His last name is Smith.

Oh yeah, he also got replaced by a 60 year old corner and a guy off the street during the season. Great trade and subsequent pick that was!

Cool Breeze
02-03-2010, 07:59 AM
do you seriously have nothing better to do than b**** and moan about all things McDaniels?

no

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 08:01 AM
I guess I was the only one who saw Washington turn him into a pretzel REPEATEDLY in the Ravens game.

How many penalties did he have in the first KC game? 2? 3? I lost track.

Guess who gets toasted on 3rd and long by Collie to jump start the Colts final scoring drive? I'll give you a hint. His last name is Smith.

Oh yeah, he also got replaced by a 60 year old corner and a guy off the street during the season. Great trade and subsequent pick that was!

When did the NFL restrict players to ONLY their first year in the league. Rookies for all!

PLAYERS NEVER IMPROVE! LISTEN TO ME! THE SKY IS FALLING!

Ever hear of a guy named Troy Polamalu? He was ****ing ATROCIOUS his first year.

The list of rookie-year struggles is about 100x longer than the list of rookie year studs. Hate to break it to you.

broncofan7
02-03-2010, 08:02 AM
Yeah. Too bad careers in the NFL last more than just a rookie season, huh BowelMovement?

Not even a nickelback in his rookie season? Really? You want to argue that he shows promise?...but keep up with the name calling-as usual-that's all you have in this argument.......

Cool Breeze
02-03-2010, 08:03 AM
He might turn out to be a decent player, but you should be getting more than DECENT at the #37 pick.

When something bad happened on defense/special teams, he was usually involved.

324 points allowed - points allowed are bad - all on Alphonso...Hilarious!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 08:03 AM
Not even a nickelback in his rookie season? Really? You want to argue that he shows promise?...but keep up with the name calling-as usual-that's all you have in this argument.......

/yawn

I'm saying it's too early to tell. I know, reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

broncofan7
02-03-2010, 08:08 AM
No one here can justify trading the rights to the #14 for the rights to draft #37--NO ONE. Even if we had won the SB this year--we still would have given up 5 spots to draft a guy who couldn't even be our nickelback.......and we all knew that we were not drafting @ 32 this year....but back on point--BPA @ #10/11 then we can start going after DL then OL...bring the beef.

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2010, 08:10 AM
When did the NFL restrict players to ONLY their first year in the league. Rookies for all!

PLAYERS NEVER IMPROVE! LISTEN TO ME! THE SKY IS FALLING!

Ever hear of a guy named Troy Polamalu? He was ****ing ATROCIOUS his first year.

The list of rookie-year struggles is about 100x longer than the list of rookie year studs. Hate to break it to you.

Well, we can just agree to disagree on Smith.

My main gripe is not having that extra first rounder in this year's LOADED draft sucks.

Beantown Bronco
02-03-2010, 08:34 AM
we traded the rights to draft @ #14 this yr for the rights to draft @ #37 last yr--that is failure enough in itself.

I pointed out yesterday that it was pretty much the equivalent of the Broncos trading away their rights in the 2007 draft to Jarvis Moss for the opportunity in 2006 to select DeMeco Ryans in the 2nd round. I don't think anyone would object to such a move today, now would they?

Rohirrim
02-03-2010, 08:38 AM
Beavis won't take anyone without performing the "sniff test".

He seems to draft thru scent...

Hilarious!

Rohirrim
02-03-2010, 08:41 AM
Since Orton doesn't have three seconds to throw it down the field, Dez would be a wasted pick. I'd scratch him off the list as well. Bulaga would make a nice LG. Tate would be a better pick for the Broncos at WR. He's more of a Hines Ward type. I'm hoping the Broncos use that number one pick on a DT. There's some good ones in this draft.

broncofan7
02-03-2010, 08:44 AM
I pointed out yesterday that it was pretty much the equivalent of the Broncos trading away their rights in the 2007 draft to Jarvis Moss for the opportunity in 2006 to select DeMeco Ryans in the 2nd round. I don't think anyone would object to such a move today, now would they?

Except for the simple fact the DeMeco came in and filled a need while we had Champ on one side and had just signed Goodman as a FA. We weren't trading up to draft a starter--as it turned out, we didn't even trade up to draft a nickelback.

EDIT: furthermore, how many times does this hyptothetical actually happen where a team trades a 1st rounder in the next season for a chance to draft a second rounder this year?

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2010, 08:54 AM
I hated the Moss pick even if it was a Bates pick.

Pretty much jumped into the first round off one game.

They needed a safety in the worst way that year, and there were some good ones in that area.

cmhargrove
02-03-2010, 09:00 AM
Just going through several mock drafts and finding the players that have been slotted to go in the high to mid 1st round and trying to see where the Broncos might go if no trade down is available (and not saying the would anyway).

This first list of guys, it's pretty much a given they won't be there at #11.

Ndamukong Suh (DT)
Gerald McCoy (DT)
Eric Berry (S)

This second list of guys I would assume the Broncos are not interested in.


Russell Okung (OT)
Anothony Davis (OT)
Trent Williams (OT)
CJ Spiler (RB)
Bryan Bulaga (OT)


So I'm thinking this is what the Broncos are going to be realistically looking at come pick #11. Obviously some of these players on this list will be gone already but this is what they will be trying to break down and who best fills a need and is the better value.

Joe Haden (CB)
Derrick Morgan (DE)
Sam Bradford (QB)
Jimmy Clausen (QB)
Dez Bryant (WR)
Jason Pierre-Paul (DE)
Rolando McClain (ILB)
Carlos Dunlap (DE)
Everson Griffen (DE)
Earl Thomas (S)
Brian Price (DT)
Dan Williams (DT)
Taylor Mays (S)

We can break it down further and just assume the Broncos are happy right now with their starters and depth at CB and S. So let's remove Mays, Thomas and Haden.

Derrick Morgan (DE)
Sam Bradford (QB)
Jimmy Clausen (QB)
Dez Bryant (WR)
Jason Pierre-Paul (DE)
Rolando McClain (ILB)
Carlos Dunlap (DE)
Everson Griffen (DE)
Brian Price (DT)
Dan Williams (DT)

Can we break it down further? I'm going to say that Morgan at only 270 and Pierre-Paul at only 260 won't hold up as a 3-4 DE so I think we pass on them.

So that leaves....

Sam Bradford (QB)
Jimmy Clausen (QB)
Dez Bryant (WR)
Rolando McClain (ILB)
Carlos Dunlap (DE)
Everson Griffen (DE)
Brian Price (DT)
Dan Williams (DT)

Is this what the Broncos board might look like, if they had to pick at #11, would this be the short list they would have to work with. It could be that Clausen, Bradford and McClain are gone, maybe leaving a S, RB and OT on the baord instead, but we won't go there I venture to say. It could very well come down to us having to pick between these guys.


Dez Bryant (WR)
Carlos Dunlap (DE)
Everson Griffen (DE)
Brian Price (DT)
Dan Williams (DT)

To me, Bryant is the only one who represents true value at #11. Dunalp (6'6 290) and Griffen (6'4 280) both can play in a 3-4 but is that too high to pick a DE for a 3-4? Price seems more like a natural fit as NT in a 4-3 since he goes 295.

And Williams is projected to go late first round so getting him at #11 fills a need but not getting the best value.

The more I look at this, the more it makes sense to trade down if we can. That is, if Clausen, Bradford and McClain are gone when we pick.

Great analysis, and I pretty much agree with everything you said.
My opinion - Take Dan Williams and don't look back. They guy already has the size, skills, and motor to be a real player in the NFL. Let's never let the Chiefs run for 200+ yards on us again...

If we trade down and get one of the top QB's, so be it. But, if we end trading back to the lower first round, I would like to see us get Iupati or Brandon Graham (especially if something happens to Elvis).

Gob
02-03-2010, 09:00 AM
Yeah. Too bad careers in the NFL last more than just a rookie season, huh BowelMovement?

lol, so Hillis, a seventh round pick, has one suprisingly good year under Shanny and one invisible one under McDaniels (where he still averages more YPC and less fumbles then Moreno) and your comfortable ripping on him, but 2nd round (using this years first) pick Smith has an invisible year and must not be judged yet?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-03-2010, 09:15 AM
lol, so Hillis, a seventh round pick, has one suprisingly good year under Shanny and one invisible one under McDaniels (where he still averages more YPC and less fumbles then Moreno) and your comfortable ripping on him, but 2nd round (using this years first) pick Smith has an invisible year and must not be judged yet?

You really want to talk about how great Hillis was, with his 350 yard season? really? REALLY?

He was so good, he couldn't beat out anyone else on the depth chart in '08, and was a backup fullback in '09, but you want to point to a TINY sample size and talk about his yards per carry?

Every rookie is different, Gob. Some are successful their first year. Some are not. Some wash out in 3 years. Some do not. Not sure what's so complicated about that.

The truth is, Hillis "great" year with his "amazing" 350 yards probably isn't worth judging, either.

Sorry I dissed your boyfriend. I hope he doesn't want to beat me up.

PRBronco
02-03-2010, 09:24 AM
To me, Bryant is the only one who represents true value at #11. Dunalp (6'6 290) and Griffen (6'4 280) both can play in a 3-4 but is that too high to pick a DE for a 3-4? Price seems more like a natural fit as NT in a 4-3 since he goes 295.

And Williams is projected to go late first round so getting him at #11 fills a need but not getting the best value.

The more I look at this, the more it makes sense to trade down if we can. That is, if Clausen, Bradford and McClain are gone when we pick.

Good post Zona, too bad it's already been ruined in the usual style. The "zomgzzz i wish we had our 1st rounder back" crowd actually took longer than usual.

It wouldn't hurt my feelings taking Dan Williams at #11, that's for sure, but I think you're right, the real value might be trading back (not too far) and accumulating more picks in this awesome draft, if the situation isn't right.

Traveller, I think everyone's just assuming the worst, re: 10 vs 11, the coin flip happens at the owners meetings, from what I understand.

Gob
02-03-2010, 09:28 AM
You really want to talk about how great Hillis was, with his 350 yard season? really? REALLY?

He was so good, he couldn't beat out anyone else on the depth chart in '08, and was a backup fullback in '09, but you want to point to a TINY sample size and talk about his yards per carry?

Every rookie is different, Gob. Some are successful their first year. Some are not. Some wash out in 3 years. Some do not. Not sure what's so complicated about that.

The truth is, Hillis "great" year with his "amazing" 350 yards probably isn't worth judging, either.

Sorry I dissed your boyfriend. I hope he doesn't want to beat me up.

If you want to increase the sample size, you are free to use his career YPC verses Moreno. I have no problem with that.
Nothing complicated about different players developing differently. It gets more complicated when you change your standards depending on how much you think McDaniels likes them though, and when you expect more out of a 7th round pick then what is effectively a first you lose me.
By the way Mark, isn't it about time to go freshen up Josh's coffee again?

Rabb
02-03-2010, 09:37 AM
the more I think about our situation, the more I want us to trade down...this could be a fantastic draft

broncofan7
02-03-2010, 09:37 AM
If you want to increase the sample size, you are free to use his career YPC verses Moreno. I have no problem with that.
Nothing complicated about different players developing differently. It gets more complicated when you change your standards depending on how much you think McDaniels likes them though, and when you expect more out of a 7th round pick then what is effectively a first you lose me.
By the way Mark, isn't it about time to go freshen up Josh's coffee again?

Hilarious! I knew that there must be some ulterior motive for his delusions........

Paladin
02-03-2010, 09:42 AM
There's not much difference between 10 and 11 in picks as I see in most mocks. But I would think that 11 would be preferable from a dollars point because the top 10 are vastly overpriced, and 11 drops in costs a great deal. So, I'd imagine some FO types would prefer 11.

But I am in favor of trading down. If the Broncos can find a trading partner, that would be great. Also, I expect that Marshall will bring some value and Sheffler might well bring a late two or three. So, it seems that an influx of some talent should be anticipated....

The way this years' draft time table is set up, seems to me that teams will have time after the first round (Thursday) to think about trades for rounds 2 and 3 (Friday). May be more drama this year and the parties can go for longer periods. AND we will see many of the tired, used, repetitive McD haters in theriifull idiocy hanging out for the for the evening.

epicSocialism4tw
02-03-2010, 09:43 AM
I pointed out yesterday that it was pretty much the equivalent of the Broncos trading away their rights in the 2007 draft to Jarvis Moss for the opportunity in 2006 to select DeMeco Ryans in the 2nd round. I don't think anyone would object to such a move today, now would they?

DeMeco played well right away.

Not the best analogy, especially given the fact that you chose the worst case scenario in Moss and the best case scenario in Ryans.

What we have in reality is the first part of a worst case scenario. By all indications, a quality player will be there at #14...one of the same group of players that the team should be looking at at #11. Denver flat out screwed the pooch with that trade, and rationalizing it away doesnt make sense. Just accept it as it is and move on knowing that a mistake was made.

Rabb
02-03-2010, 09:47 AM
DeMeco played well right away.

Not the best analogy, especially given the fact that you chose the worst case scenario in Moss and the best case scenario in Ryans.

What we have in reality is the first part of a worst case scenario. By all indications, a quality player will be there at #14...one of the same group of players that the team should be looking at at #11. Denver flat out screwed the pooch with that trade, and rationalizing it away doesnt make sense. Just accept it as it is and move on knowing that a mistake was made.

that cuts both ways, and I agree

Requiem
02-03-2010, 09:49 AM
I think the Broncos would very much consider an offensive tackle if one is the BPA. There are many good ones, and as much of a fan I am of Ryan Harris, whether or not he is what we need at RT in the new scheme remains to be seen.

Paladin
02-03-2010, 09:49 AM
DeMeco played well right away.

Not the best analogy, especially given the fact that you chose the worst case scenario in Moss and the best case scenario in Ryans.

What we have in reality is the first part of a worst case scenario. By all indications, a quality player will be there at #14...one of the same group of players that the team should be looking at at #11. Denver flat out screwed the pooch with that trade, and rationalizing it away doesnt make sense. Just accept it as it is and move on knowing that a mistake was made.

So what? Ain't like those things haven't happened before, is it? I remember sitting through several Shanahan drafts saying: "Who the F is that? What the F are you doing, Shanahan?" Did you? All coaches make judgments on who they like and don't like. It's part of the "Devine Rights of Head Coaches", and there is nothing you can do to change it.

Rohirrim
02-03-2010, 09:51 AM
So what? Ain't like those things haven't happened before, is it? I remember sitting through several Shanahan drafts saying: "Who the F is that? What the F are you doing, Shanahan?" Did you? All coaches make judgments on who they like and don't like. It's part of the "Devine Rights of Head Coaches", and there is nothing you can do to change it.

More often than not. Ha!

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2010, 09:55 AM
the more I think about our situation, the more I want us to trade down...this could be a fantastic draft

Once Raji was gone last year, they should've traded down from 12.

Paladin
02-03-2010, 09:55 AM
I think the Broncos would very much consider an offensive tackle if one is the BPA. There are many good ones, and as much of a fan I am of Ryan Harris, whether or not he is what we need at RT in the new scheme remains to be seen.

Given the Hamilton deal, I would think the LG would be more of a concern for McD than tackle. I would not be surprsised of an Olineman was the first pick, particularly if they are able to trade down to a decent slot. And the 11 pick would be a bit more desireable than the 10 pick (( less money), for some team that wants a shot at Bryant.

cmhargrove
02-03-2010, 09:57 AM
I think the Broncos would very much consider an offensive tackle if one is the BPA. There are many good ones, and as much of a fan I am of Ryan Harris, whether or not he is what we need at RT in the new scheme remains to be seen.

I agree on the "build the lines" approach, but our Tackles did pretty well as run blockers last year, whether blocking man or zone. There is no good reason to doubt his skill unless proven otherwise. Hell, by that standard, Clady still hasn't figured out Tamba Hali yet - although he will be seeing him twice a year and get plenty of chances.

Just think of how many games we would have won if we had more power in the LG and Center position last year? Get us a big freak at LG (which we already have a couple 310lb choices on the roster) to push the pile. Even draft Pouncey in the second round if you want a larger Center. But Harris? He'll do just fine.

OldschoolFreak
02-03-2010, 10:00 AM
I like the idea of trading down only a few slots BUT STILL LANDING Dan Williams. One scenario for that would be Bradford/Clausen slipping to us. Rather than pulling the trigger, we could probably entice a mid first round team to trade if one of them was on the board.

Requiem
02-03-2010, 10:03 AM
I don't necessarily doubt Harris' skill, I was his biggest supporter throughout the 2007 draft process and was thrilled when we got him and Crowder, my two favorite players at the time. Fact is, he has missed significant time due to injury as a rookie and this past season. If I'm going to take a player at #11 for the OL, I'd go OT over a G, even if it is Iupati.

OldschoolFreak
02-03-2010, 10:05 AM
I don't necessarily doubt Harris' skill, I was his biggest supporter throughout the 2007 draft process and was thrilled when we got him and Crowder, my two favorite players at the time. Fact is, he has missed significant time due to injury as a rookie and this past season. If I'm going to take a player at #11 for the OL, I'd go OT over a G, even if it is Iupati.

Anyone know who of a versatile tackle, projected in the late 2nd/3rd who can also play guard?

Rohirrim
02-03-2010, 10:07 AM
I don't necessarily doubt Harris' skill, I was his biggest supporter throughout the 2007 draft process and was thrilled when we got him and Crowder, my two favorite players at the time. Fact is, he has missed significant time due to injury as a rookie and this past season. If I'm going to take a player at #11 for the OL, I'd go OT over a G, even if it is Iupati.

Or take a guy like Bulaga who could play pretty much any position on the line. Clady at LT and Bulaga at LG would be pro-bowl heaven for about twelve years.

PRBronco
02-03-2010, 10:10 AM
Anyone know who of a versatile tackle, projected in the late 2nd/3rd who can also play guard?

Vlad Ducasse maybe? If we're talking first round, Bulaga.

Requiem
02-03-2010, 10:10 AM
Or take a guy like Bulaga who could play pretty much any position on the line. Clady at LT and Bulaga at LG would be pro-bowl heaven for about twelve years.

Bulaga is really a guy I'm starting to like. A tough S.O.B. indeed, I think his value at #11 far surpasses Iupati's.

epicSocialism4tw
02-03-2010, 10:17 AM
So what? Ain't like those things haven't happened before, is it? I remember sitting through several Shanahan drafts saying: "Who the F is that? What the F are you doing, Shanahan?" Did you? All coaches make judgments on who they like and don't like. It's part of the "Devine Rights of Head Coaches", and there is nothing you can do to change it.

Personally, I hope McD learned from his mistakes and gets better. That doesnt change the fact that mistakes were made. If mistakes continue to be made, then you make changes and let McD make mistakes somewhere else.

Only scouting 30 players for the draft is just flat out neglectful.

Mediator12
02-03-2010, 10:21 AM
Or take a guy like Bulaga who could play pretty much any position on the line. Clady at LT and Bulaga at LG would be pro-bowl heaven for about twelve years.

That's absolutely true. His teammate Kyle Calloway would also fit that bill as a RT or LG stud.

OldschoolFreak
02-03-2010, 10:25 AM
Bulaga is really a guy I'm starting to like. A tough S.O.B. indeed, I think his value at #11 far surpasses Iupati's.

Yeah, could be good. My hunch though is that our stud first rounder should be DT beef and that a highly rated but not elite LG/LT works better than vice versa.

lookin' glass
02-03-2010, 10:26 AM
I'm under the impression Dan Williams has played himself into top 10 status. I think he would make the quickest impact for the Broncos. I'm not sold on Bryant's maturity and would hope the lines are addressed first and foremost.
The Dline needs an impact player DT or DE. Odrick might be that guy or the kid from Cal. The guys currently playing are ok but that's it just ok. As for the Oline I think Iupati would be great at LG if they can teach him to quit grabbing. But McDaniels wants versatile guys and I don't don't know if Iupati can be versatile.

strafen
02-03-2010, 10:32 AM
I pointed out yesterday that it was pretty much the equivalent of the Broncos trading away their rights in the 2007 draft to Jarvis Moss for the opportunity in 2006 to select DeMeco Ryans in the 2nd round. I don't think anyone would object to such a move today, now would they?Why do you always use whatever Shanahan did in the past to defend the stupidity of McDaniels?
It's getting old. Just because Shanahan ****ed-up in some areas, doesn't by any stretch give McDaniels a pass.
Stop that crap anytime you get a chance now, would ya'?

There's a reason Shanny got fired, there's a reason we didn't make the play-offs, so the only thing you need to learn about comparing Shanahan failures to justify McDaniels' is that Bowlen has also learned.
If McDaniels fails this year, he will be shot out of this town faster than a champagne cork.
Bowlen will can his ass sooner than people are thinking...

misturanderson
02-03-2010, 10:35 AM
Only scouting 30 players for the draft is just flat out neglectful.

Good thing that he absolutely did not do that then isn't it?

Mediator12
02-03-2010, 10:36 AM
I'm under the impression Dan Williams has played himself into top 10 status. I think he would make the quickest impact for the Broncos. I'm not sold on Bryant's maturity and would hope the lines are addressed first and foremost.
The Dline needs an impact player DT or DE. Odrick might be that guy or the kid from Cal. The guys currently playing are ok but that's it just ok. As for the Oline I think Iupati would be great at LG if they can teach him to quit grabbing. But McDaniels wants versatile guys and I don't don't know if Iupati can be versatile.

I think the guys currently playing are not OK. I think every single DL would struggle to get playing time on any other team in the league. This DL needs to get better for the defense to maintain any reasonable success down the stretch. The DL got seriously exposed the last half of the year and was the single biggest factor in the latest Defensive implosion.

That being said, Williams or Price might get up into the top 15 of this draft. I would take either, but they might not be value picks at 10/11. That is why Trading back for once is a real option for DEN. I would rather get one of those guys and a late second early third over any one player left at the DEN spot.

PRBronco
02-03-2010, 10:40 AM
I'm under the impression Dan Williams has played himself into top 10 status. I think he would make the quickest impact for the Broncos. I'm not sold on Bryant's maturity and would hope the lines are addressed first and foremost.
The Dline needs an impact player DT or DE. Odrick might be that guy or the kid from Cal. The guys currently playing are ok but that's it just ok. As for the Oline I think Iupati would be great at LG if they can teach him to quit grabbing. But McDaniels wants versatile guys and I don't don't know if Iupati can be versatile.

Drafting D line early is a wise move, and a common denominator on most successful teams, but it's not a move that you want to get your hopes up for a quick impact from, especially on the nose.

epicSocialism4tw
02-03-2010, 10:41 AM
Good thing that he absolutely did not do that then isn't it?

Prove it.

Mediator12
02-03-2010, 10:46 AM
Why do you always use whatever Shanahan did in the past to defend the stupidity of McDaniels?
It's getting old. Just because Shanahan ****ed-up in some areas, doesn't by any stretch give McDaniels a pass.
Stop that crap anytime you get a chance now, would ya'?

There's a reason Shanny got fired, there's a reason we didn't make the play-offs, so the only thing you need to learn about comparing Shanahan failures to justify McDaniels' is that Bowlen has also learned.
If McDaniels fails this year, he will be shot out of this town faster than a champagne cork.
Bowlen will can his ass sooner than people are thinking...

How the hell would you know that? How can you make such a prediction? Seriously, it weakens anything you say to try and tie your own feelings about what should happen to the totally unknown feelings of the real owner.

The draft takes time, and on the surface everyone is bitching about the opportunity cost of losing the #14 pick to acquire Smith. In a draft this deep, it looks like a terrible move since we think we know the outcome of how well Smith will ever be. CB's can take time to develop, especially when they have to switch schemes. A perfect example would be higher taken CB's Aqib Talib and Mike Jenkins. It took awhile to acclimate to the better WR's and much more complex schemes.

However, to simply bitch about outcomes that are still in the process shows only a lack patience and understanding. What happens if DEN takes a kid with that pick 14 and he gets seriously injured? Then, the switch turns on for Smith and he becomes a 8-10 year starter after the 2 30+ starting CB's are long gone?

Can we just stop attacking for once and try and discuss the possible outcomes without making it all personal and emotional?

Requiem
02-03-2010, 10:47 AM
Mediator, I've read several places and heard that the Kansas City Chiefs are absolutely in love with Dan Williams, and would take him to play at NT to pair with the other defensive lineman they have now who would play ends in their scheme.

PRBronco
02-03-2010, 10:48 AM
Prove it.

I'm sure you're referring to this article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/package?id=3835137

"The Denver Broncos' 33-year-old Boy Blunder boasted this week that his draft board had fewer than 100 names on it, which made it easy for him to make his picks. Less than a hundred names when 256 players were drafted? Most boards had 500-plus names on them! Furthermore, he said the Broncos had worked out nearly 30 players and all 10 of his choices were among those 30. "

No mention of how many players he scouted, to think they scouted only 30 players is ludicrous. He went into the draft with a list of players he wanted to draft, and got who he wanted. Would people prefer he just shot in the ****ing dark?

strafen
02-03-2010, 10:54 AM
How the hell would you know that? How can you make such a prediction? Seriously, it weakens anything you say to try and tie your own feelings about what should happen to the totally unknown feelings of the real owner.



I went from mildly disliking McDaniels, kind of liking the guy, to absolutely hating the mo-fo, because of the people of this board
The McDaniles knob-slobbering is so bad, it's disgusting, it's a turn off.

Mediator12
02-03-2010, 10:56 AM
Mediator, I've read several places and heard that the Kansas City Chiefs are absolutely in love with Dan Williams, and would take him to play at NT to pair with the other defensive lineman they have now who would play ends in their scheme.

It is still early FEB pre-combine and all these guys could move compared to the original post season sites evals. However, the chiefs moves this early would be anything but reliable, or for any team since most personnel Depts have not even started their draft meetings until post SB.

That being said, Williams and Price could both move way up IMHO. They are that good, it just depends on the grades of the other players for the teams. I have not even really gotten to the offensive side of the ball or finished the secondary really yet to see the value of the first round IMHO.

It is just way too early for me to think about final draft grades. You might be further along than I am, but I still think teams are nowhere near what they are going to do yet.

Mediator12
02-03-2010, 11:06 AM
I went from mildly disliking McDaniels, kind of liking the guy, to absolutely hating the mo-fo, because of the people of this board
The McDaniles knob-slobbering is so bad, it's disgusting, it's a turn off.

I am neither, but being anywhere near the extreme is a serious turnoff to the majority of us posters. It makes anything you say suspicious as just being biased.

And, BTW the McDaniels Haters are just as bad and Worse in certain things. I love to talk football, but I hate to listen to hate from any side. It just becomes draining and infectious. I am OK with disagreement, that is life in a nutshell. I just wish people could be respectful in doing it and at least TRY and see the other side. Every topic has at least 2 sides and when people stop looking at the other side it just becomes nasty, especially here on a Board.

I just wish more people would see things as being shades of gray with competing sides to why, instead of all the biased simple either/or mentality that seems to pervade this place. Nothing good comes of squaring off with no sense of seeing the other persons point.

epicSocialism4tw
02-03-2010, 11:18 AM
I'm sure you're referring to this article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/package?id=3835137

"The Denver Broncos' 33-year-old Boy Blunder boasted this week that his draft board had fewer than 100 names on it, which made it easy for him to make his picks. Less than a hundred names when 256 players were drafted? Most boards had 500-plus names on them! Furthermore, he said the Broncos had worked out nearly 30 players and all 10 of his choices were among those 30. "

No mention of how many players he scouted, to think they scouted only 30 players is ludicrous. He went into the draft with a list of players he wanted to draft, and got who he wanted. Would people prefer he just shot in the ****ing dark?

Point proved. Thanks.

NFLBRONCO
02-03-2010, 11:22 AM
I am neither, but being anywhere near the extreme is a serious turnoff to the majority of us posters. It makes anything you say suspicious as just being biased.

And, BTW the McDaniels Haters are just as bad and Worse in certain things. I love to talk football, but I hate to listen to hate from any side. It just becomes draining and infectious. I am OK with disagreement, that is life in a nutshell. I just wish people could be respectful in doing it and at least TRY and see the other side. Every topic has at least 2 sides and when people stop looking at the other side it just becomes nasty, especially here on a Board.

I just wish more people would see things as being shades of gray with competing sides to why, instead of all the biased simple either/or mentality that seems to pervade this place. Nothing good comes of squaring off with no sense of seeing the other persons point.

No doubt that would be nice.

Requiem
02-03-2010, 11:24 AM
Point proved. Thanks.

No point of yours was proven. The Broncos decided after evaluating and scouting, that there were 100 players they'd consider for their team. The brought in 30 prospects for visits, and only drafted ones they brought in for a closer look. This does not mean they didn't scout more than 100 players, after all the evaluations were done, they had 100 guys they thought were worthy of a selection. There is nothing wrong with that.

SportinOne
02-03-2010, 11:26 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


If you get a solid player at 37, you're happy. If he contributes for 5-7 years, you're happy.

Well, he's still got 5-7 years of contributing to do before anyone is happy.

It will be interesting to see what McDaniels does.

If he has any confidence in Smith at all he will not draft a CB. Time will tell.

Requiem
02-03-2010, 11:28 AM
Well, he's still got 5-7 years of contributing to do before anyone is happy.

It will be interesting to see what McDaniels does.

If he has any confidence in Smith at all he will not draft a CB. Time will tell.

With the age of our starters, it is a possibility for the Broncos to be looking to find another young corner. Smith and and my boy Tony Carter have a lot of work to do, and Ty Law isn't going to be playing forever. Depth and youth at the CB position is most certainly a concern, even if Smith becomes a good player.

boppool
02-03-2010, 11:31 AM
Dez Bryant (WR)
Carlos Dunlap (DE)
Everson Griffen (DE)
Brian Price (DT)
Dan Williams (DT)

Out of those five, I'd have to go with Bryant. The other four really don't deserve to be the 11th pick.

I just hope McClain can somehow fall on our lap.

epicSocialism4tw
02-03-2010, 11:31 AM
No point of yours was proven. The Broncos decided after evaluating and scouting, that there were 100 players they'd consider for their team. The brought in 30 prospects for visits, and only drafted ones they brought in for a closer look. This does not mean they didn't scout more than 100 players, after all the evaluations were done, they had 100 guys they thought were worthy of a selection. There is nothing wrong with that.

I was saying that he proved his point, idiot. No interjection from you was wanted or needed. Mind your own business.

Requiem
02-03-2010, 11:44 AM
I was saying that he proved his point, idiot. No interjection from you was wanted or needed. Mind your own business.

My business is whatever I make of it. Don't go calling Ghostbusters.

Dagmar
02-03-2010, 11:52 AM
Mediator, I wish you posted more.

epicSocialism4tw
02-03-2010, 11:55 AM
My business is whatever I make of it. Don't go calling Ghostbusters.

Sure buddy. You keep telling yourself that you are that important.

"I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it...people like me."

http://www.thehotjoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/stuartsmalley.jpg

Dagmar
02-03-2010, 11:59 AM
Sure buddy. You keep telling yourself that you are that important.

"I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it...people like me."


Why is Req opinion not important when you believe yours is? We aren't talking ****ty Dallas basketball teams or soccer. And he ain't mock!

Requiem
02-03-2010, 12:08 PM
Sure buddy. You keep telling yourself that you are that important.

"I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it...people like me."

A Christian like yourself should really have better manners. Better hit up the church this weekend for your cleanse.

Dagmar
02-03-2010, 12:11 PM
A Christian like yourself should really have better manners. Better hit up the church this weekend for your cleanse.

http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/theremoteisland/2009/02/church_lady.jpg

bronco610
02-03-2010, 12:13 PM
http://www.nerve.com/cs/blogs/theremoteisland/2009/02/church_lady.jpg

lol

Requiem
02-03-2010, 12:18 PM
Nah, more like this.

http://kiddmillennium.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/jesus-thumps-up1.jpg

Popcorn Sutton
02-03-2010, 12:20 PM
we traded the rights to draft @ #14 this yr for the rights to draft @ #37 last yr--that is failure enough in itself. Coupled with Fonzie being unable to even be our nickelback--and it is a McGenius level of failure.

Are you aware of the "rule of thumb" that teams typically gain a round by waiting a year. In other words a 1st rounder in 2010 is roughly worth a 2nd rounder in 2009?

The Broncos effectively traded the 14th pick in 2010 first round for the 5th pick in the 2009 2nd round. It's pretty much on par with typical trades for future draft picks.

Fonzie was a disappointment but it's not uncommon for a first year player to struggle. What amazes me is people are so focused on Fonzie and the negativity that they overlook the fact that the Broncos picked up Tony Carter (undrafted rookie) and he turned out to be a pretty solid contributor.

I guess negativity overshadows anything positive around here.

gyldenlove
02-03-2010, 12:25 PM
Dan Williams.

Mcclain is looking like a likely pick from Kansas City
Bradford will go to Buffalo or Washington
I am not big on Haden and Dunlap. Haden looks weak in man to man against better opponents and his backpedal is sloppy at best, Dunlap is much more of a power end in a 4-3, I know because of his size he will get thrown around as a 3-4 DE, but he just doesn't have the lower body power to fit that position, he would have to bulk up so much that his quickness would be negated.

Iupati is just not good enough to be a top 15 pick, he is not the next Steve Hutchinson. I would like him around number 20, but not higher than that.

I don't want anything to do with Bryant, he has 1 super year, sat out all this season and is a Parker/Sanders client which spells trouble to me.

Derrick Morgan is my outsider, he is a great pass rusher with good size. I am still not sold on Ayers at OLB, I think moving Ayers in to DE and getting Morgan would help - but then I really do like Graham out of Michigan better.

gyldenlove
02-03-2010, 12:37 PM
Are you aware of the "rule of thumb" that teams typically gain a round by waiting a year. In other words a 1st rounder in 2010 is roughly worth a 2nd rounder in 2009?

The Broncos effectively traded the 14th pick in 2010 first round for the 5th pick in the 2009 2nd round. It's pretty much on par with typical trades for future draft picks.

Fonzie was a disappointment but it's not uncommon for a first year player to struggle. What amazes me is people are so focused on Fonzie and the negativity that they overlook the fact that the Broncos picked up Tony Carter (undrafted rookie) and he turned out to be a pretty solid contributor.

I guess negativity overshadows anything positive around here.

What the hell does Tony Carter have to do with the Al Smith trade? or did you just pull something out of your ass to move the debate away from that awful trade?

There is also a rule of thumb that says that people who are 5'9 and slow tend to be poor cornerbacks.

The value of the trade in terms of draft picks was okay, nothing major there, but why the f did we feel the need to move up for a slow short cornerback who can't play? Smith was so bad he got bumped down the depth chart by a street free agent and a practice squad player and in very limited playing time still managed to lose us a game - that is some achievement, suckage doesn't come much bigger than that.

You are saying that Tony Carter who was 4th on the depth chart and played in 2 games making 3 tackles is a solid contributor? doesn't take much to make you happy does it?

misturanderson
02-03-2010, 01:18 PM
There is also a rule of thumb that says that people who are 5'9 and slow tend to be poor cornerbacks.

From His Wake Forrest bio:

2007 (Junior):
Considered one of the top corners in the ACC ... First team All-ACC ... Second team All-America by Walter Camp ... Third team AP All-America squad and honorable mention on the Sports Illustrated All-America team ... Led the nation and the ACC with a school-record eight interceptions ... Had three interception returns for touchdowns.

Now all of that just SCREAMS poor cornerback doesn't it?

Oh and Alphonso is so "slow" that he ran the 40 in a pathetic 5 100ths of a second slower than the fastest CB in the draft. If he had run it in 4.49 seconds instead of 4.51 seconds, nobody would be complaining about his speed.

Jesus Christ stop with the ****ing hyperbole. Smith wasn't some ****ty CB projected to go in the 6th round, he went where he was projected to go. He was the consensus 3rd or 4th best CB in the draft and was supposed to go in the late 1st or early 2nd. WHICH IS WHERE HE WENT.

Requiem
02-03-2010, 01:29 PM
Alphonso Smith was my favorite corner in the draft, and went where he was expected to by many draftniks and reports league-wide. Yes, we mortgaged a bit to get him, and looking at this draft -- having another pick right behind ours would be nice, but I'm not going to throw Smith in the can after one year. It is a tough transition. Luckily, he couldn't be in a better situation with some of the greatest defensive backs over the past decade to ever see the field. He'll learn from his mistakes, work harder, and hopefully become a good player for us. As long as Champ and Goodman are playing well, he'll have a hard time being a starter. Hopefully he'll be a playmaker for us in the nickel packages next year.

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2010, 01:36 PM
Fonzie could be starting sooner than we think if Bailey doesn't take a paycut...

Popcorn Sutton
02-03-2010, 01:41 PM
What the hell does Tony Carter have to do with the Al Smith trade? or did you just pull something out of your ass to move the debate away from that awful trade?

There is also a rule of thumb that says that people who are 5'9 and slow tend to be poor cornerbacks.

The value of the trade in terms of draft picks was okay, nothing major there, but why the f did we feel the need to move up for a slow short cornerback who can't play? Smith was so bad he got bumped down the depth chart by a street free agent and a practice squad player and in very limited playing time still managed to lose us a game - that is some achievement, suckage doesn't come much bigger than that.

You are saying that Tony Carter who was 4th on the depth chart and played in 2 games making 3 tackles is a solid contributor? doesn't take much to make you happy does it?

First of all, a short small cornerback who can't play? What exactly was it about his college career that led you to believe Alphonso Smith couldn't play? You accept that Mike Mayock is a solid resource when it comes to college prospects and drafting right? If so, you probably should recognize that he had him as a fringe first rounder and in his final mock he had him going to the Steelers at pick 31. People have consistently propped Mayock up as one of the best there is at spotting talent for the NFL draft. Mayock was high on Smith and Ayers for that matter so your "short cornerback who can't play" description is a little over the top.

And yes a-hole, I do consider an undrafted rookie cornerback that worked his way into the 53 man - game day roster and eventually into the nickel cornerback role (prior to Ty Law) as being a solid contributor. Notice I said contributor... I didn't say he was a ****ing all star you dick wad. The point is, it was a positive that is overshadowed by all the negativity around here. The other point is that sometimes draft picks fail and sometimes you find a undrafted player that ends up being a contributor.

God, get over yourself. You this miserable in your daily life?

RaiderH8r
02-03-2010, 01:41 PM
give the guy more than one year.....

Guy can't cover a pile of dog sh@t in a phone booth. Sure, I'll give him another year.

Popcorn Sutton
02-03-2010, 01:42 PM
From His Wake Forrest bio:

2007 (Junior):
Considered one of the top corners in the ACC ... First team All-ACC ... Second team All-America by Walter Camp ... Third team AP All-America squad and honorable mention on the Sports Illustrated All-America team ... Led the nation and the ACC with a school-record eight interceptions ... Had three interception returns for touchdowns.

Now all of that just SCREAMS poor cornerback doesn't it?

Oh and Alphonso is so "slow" that he ran the 40 in a pathetic 5 100ths of a second slower than the fastest CB in the draft. If he had run it in 4.49 seconds instead of 4.51 seconds, nobody would be complaining about his speed.

Jesus Christ stop with the ****ing hyperbole. Smith wasn't some ****ty CB projected to go in the 6th round, he went where he was projected to go. He was the consensus 3rd or 4th best CB in the draft and was supposed to go in the late 1st or early 2nd. WHICH IS WHERE HE WENT.

Excellent post.

bronco610
02-03-2010, 01:55 PM
How the heck did this thread become about Smith ???

Popcorn Sutton
02-03-2010, 01:58 PM
How the heck did this thread become about Smith ???

Didn't you know? Any thread that talks about this years draft will immediately be derailed by negative comments regarding last years draft. It's OM policy.

bronco610
02-03-2010, 01:59 PM
Didn't you know? Any thread that talks about this years draft will immediately be derailed by negative comments regarding last years draft. It's OM policy.

Got it, that clears that and about every other thread up! Thanks Ha!

Rohirrim
02-03-2010, 02:03 PM
Anyway, whoever the #1 pick is, I just hope it's a big ugly. On either line, I don't care. ;D

ColoradoDarin
02-03-2010, 02:10 PM
Another thread for me to bring up Trevor Pryce and his outstanding rookie season? Yes, yes it is.

cmhargrove
02-03-2010, 02:13 PM
Another thread for me to bring up Trevor Pryce and his outstanding rookie season? Yes, yes it is.

But what about Ed Reeeeeeeeed?

RaiderH8r
02-03-2010, 02:19 PM
Anyway, whoever the #1 pick is, I just hope it's a big ugly. On either line, I don't care. ;D

Indeed. That's as good of an idea this year as it was last year.

*WARHORSE*
02-03-2010, 02:44 PM
Iupati Please.

At 10......11....or moving down, who cares? Just bring the dude in.


We need a SAMOAN on this team. No place on earth produces more NFL players than SAMOA!

CHEEEEAHHH!!!

Rohirrim
02-03-2010, 02:57 PM
Iupati Please.

At 10......11....or moving down, who cares? Just bring the dude in.


We need a SAMOAN on this team. No place on earth produces more NFL players than SAMOA!

CHEEEEAHHH!!!

I am hoping against hope that we can get Alualu in the second. IMO, he will be a star.

PRBronco
02-03-2010, 03:00 PM
Iupati Please.

At 10......11....or moving down, who cares? Just bring the dude in.


We need a SAMOAN on this team. No place on earth produces more NFL players than SAMOA!

CHEEEEAHHH!!!

Lol Samoan fever's coming on strong from that TV special eh?

Mediator12
02-03-2010, 03:06 PM
I am hoping against hope that we can get Alualu in the second. IMO, he will be a star.

I think Alualu will be a very good player, but name one 3-4 DE that is a "STAR" anymore :strong: Yeah, not easy.

Requiem
02-03-2010, 04:36 PM
I think Alualu will be a very good player, but name one 3-4 DE that is a "STAR" anymore :strong: Yeah, not easy.

Randy Starks had a hell of a year this year, but he ain't no star -- I was pleased to see him excel though.

misturanderson
02-03-2010, 04:57 PM
It is nearly impossible to predict who will be an option at #11 in the draft until after the combine and pro-days.

If Haden or Bryant runs a low 4.4 or a 4.3 40, they will definitely be in the mix, if McClain runs a 4.7 or lower he may drop out of the mix. Dan Williams may be rising in much the same way that Raji did last year. We still don't know if Bradford's shoulder is actually better, that may be a huge factor in our draft. What happens if somone like Odrick tests off the charts? He'll likely be in the mix again. There are way too many variables at this point in the process to accurately predict who would bring value at our spot.

I would personally say that the 3 players that should absolutely not get past #3 would be G. McCoy, Suh and Berry. Anyone else is in a lower tier due to injury, size, production, competition, being out a year, etc. concerns or doesn't play a high value position or doesn't play at a position of need. The distinction between the #4-15(maybe #4-20?) prospects is less clear.

2KBack
02-03-2010, 05:14 PM
I would like to point out that this has been one of the better threads I've read in a while, despite some minor derailment.

Mediator, you may very well save this board.

As for the draft, I am down for the big uglies as well. I have been very impressed by McClain, and would love to have him, but the lines are more important at this point.

epicSocialism4tw
02-03-2010, 05:16 PM
A Christian like yourself should really have better manners. Better hit up the church this weekend for your cleanse.

Ah...thanks for the lesson in morals. I dont know what I would do without college aged tech nerd wannabe scouts and their keen sense of internet morality.

Rohirrim
02-03-2010, 05:20 PM
I think Alualu will be a very good player, but name one 3-4 DE that is a "STAR" anymore :strong: Yeah, not easy.

Tyson will be the first. ;D

He's like Troy. Non-stop motor. He'll fire up the whole team.

epicSocialism4tw
02-03-2010, 05:22 PM
Iupati Please.

At 10......11....or moving down, who cares? Just bring the dude in.


We need a SAMOAN on this team. No place on earth produces more NFL players than SAMOA!

CHEEEEAHHH!!!

Iupati looks like a nice player.

TheChamp24
02-03-2010, 05:27 PM
I will seriously throw a fit if we draft Carlos Dunlap.
Did we not learn from our mistake when we took Moss?
Or learn from the Jaguars mistake when they took Derrick Harvey?
These Florida DE's have been nothing in the Pro's, and I honestly don't see Dunlap being a dominant force.

Mr.Meanie
02-03-2010, 05:45 PM
How the heck did this thread become about Smith ???

You can expect every draft thread to at least derail into 2-4 pages of argument about Smith.

Requiem
02-03-2010, 05:51 PM
Ah...thanks for the lesson in morals. I dont know what I would do without college aged tech nerd wannabe scouts and their keen sense of internet morality.

You probably don't do much anyways, McSkillet.

Rohirrim
02-03-2010, 05:51 PM
The Broncos shouldn't draft anyone in the first round whose ass does not weigh at least fifty pounds all by itself. I don't know how you would figure that out. Put them in a tank of water and use some fancy logarithm.

strafen
02-03-2010, 06:08 PM
Iupati Please.

At 10......11....or moving down, who cares? Just bring the dude in.


We need a SAMOAN on this team. No place on earth produces more NFL players than SAMOA!

CHEEEEAHHH!!!The more I hear about Iupati, the more I'm intrigued about him.
I've heard Mark Schreleth talking big about him.
We're weak on the interior side of our offensive line. We're solid at the ends. We need at least one more guard that can play and a good prospect at center.

epicSocialism4tw
02-03-2010, 07:43 PM
You probably don't do much anyways, McSkillet.

I don't "scout" for free, so you got me there.

misturanderson
02-03-2010, 08:27 PM
The more I hear about Iupati, the more I'm intrigued about him.
I've heard Mark Schreleth talking big about him.
We're weak on the interior side of our offensive line. We're solid at the ends. We need at least one more guard that can play and a good prospect at center.

The main reason (only reason?) Stink talks about him as much as he does is because he plays the same position that he did at the same college.

Tombstone RJ
02-03-2010, 08:37 PM
I have no problem with McD building from the inside out. Keep building up the lines.

strafen
02-03-2010, 10:38 PM
The main reason (only reason?) Stink talks about him as much as he does is because he plays the same position that he did at the same college.

I don't see a problem with that.
He's not the only one raving about the kid, but then again, we can only hope he'll be as good as advertised should we get him...

Chris
02-03-2010, 11:25 PM
Who are the top G prospects behind iupati?

misturanderson
02-03-2010, 11:52 PM
I don't see a problem with that.
He's not the only one raving about the kid, but then again, we can only hope he'll be as good as advertised should we get him...

I wasn't saying it was bad the Schlereth was interested, just pointing out that he would have more interest in Iutapi than most due to his college.

He would be a good player to get if we can drop back about 10 spots or get him in the 2nd, but he was fairly disappointing in the senior bowl and doesn't look to be a good choice for a high 1st round selection. Way too many questions about technique and competition.

NFLBRONCO
02-03-2010, 11:59 PM
I would guess front 7 is our target at 11. I think we'll get a better idea after trades are actually made.

I'll all for building the lines 100% but, still struggling with this possibility taking need over BPA at 11 not sure its the best idea.

BroncoMan4ever
02-04-2010, 01:20 AM
I would like to point out that this has been one of the better threads I've read in a while, despite some minor derailment.

Mediator, you may very well save this board.

As for the draft, I am down for the big uglies as well. I have been very impressed by McClain, and would love to have him, but the lines are more important at this point.

as much as i like McClain and Bryant, and I do believe they will become good players, this draft, at least the 1st 3 or 4 rounds needs to be all about linemen.

i look at it this way. Look at Indy. Peyton is playing at an incredible level but outside of Wayne, he really doesn't have any elite WRs. Garcon, Collie neither of them are particularly great receivers, but if you give a QB good protection, and allow him time to find an open man, he will make his pass catchers look better than they actually are. I know that is a bad example, considering it is Peyton Manning, but hypothetically if he had the kind of protection Orton had this season, there is no chance in hell that he is playing this upcoming weekend and more than likely no one knows about Garcon or Collie.

same thing with the D. our LBs are nothing special. DJ is constantly out of place or overpursuing, Davis has the best instincts but lacks the athleticism at this point in his career to make a big difference, Haggan is a feel good story and a decent LB, but really the guy shouldn't be a starter, Doom is a great pass rusher but weak in coverage and in the running game. But if we had a stronger DL, it frees up our LBs to make plays, it gives them time to read and react.


so while a LB like McClain would be an upgrade to the front 7, it would be more beneficial to the defense as a whole if we upgraded the line, because even though our LBs can be improved upon, stronger play in front of them would help them to look better.

and while a pass catcher like Bryant, especially with the more than likely departure of Marshall seems like a smart move, if we can upgrade our OL, then our running game can really start moving well which opens up the passing game and helps Orton. and a QB with protection can make decent receivers look better than they are.

BroncoMan4ever
02-04-2010, 01:29 AM
I wasn't saying it was bad the Schlereth was interested, just pointing out that he would have more interest in Iutapi than most due to his college.

He would be a good player to get if we can drop back about 10 spots or get him in the 2nd, but he was fairly disappointing in the senior bowl and doesn't look to be a good choice for a high 1st round selection. Way too many questions about technique and competition.

i don't think the senior bowl was a fair representation of Iupati. for some retarded reason the majority of the game they had him lined up at the RG position. I know many will say what is the big deal of a linemen playing the same position on the opposite side of the line? but it is a big difference, there is a whole learning curve and having to basically relearn your position, and do your normal blocking routine in reverse.

it would be like lining up Clady on the right side. he is an elite LT quite possibly the best in the business, however on the right side he wouldn't immediately be an elite RT. he would be alright simply because of his strength size and athleticism, but until he fully learned the position over the course of months, he would simply be an average linemen.


if McDaniels is truly serious about upgrading our interior line, then we better spend the number 11 pick on the best LG in the draft.....Iupati

ZONA
02-04-2010, 01:37 AM
as much as i like McClain and Bryant, and I do believe they will become good players, this draft, at least the 1st 3 or 4 rounds needs to be all about linemen.

i look at it this way. Look at Indy. Peyton is playing at an incredible level but outside of Wayne, he really doesn't have any elite WRs. Garcon, Collie neither of them are particularly great receivers, but if you give a QB good protection, and allow him time to find an open man, he will make his pass catchers look better than they actually are. I know that is a bad example, considering it is Peyton Manning, but hypothetically if he had the kind of protection Orton had this season, there is no chance in hell that he is playing this upcoming weekend and more than likely no one knows about Garcon or Collie.

same thing with the D. our LBs are nothing special. DJ is constantly out of place or overpursuing, Davis has the best instincts but lacks the athleticism at this point in his career to make a big difference, Haggan is a feel good story and a decent LB, but really the guy shouldn't be a starter, Doom is a great pass rusher but weak in coverage and in the running game. But if we had a stronger DL, it frees up our LBs to make plays, it gives them time to read and react.


so while a LB like McClain would be an upgrade to the front 7, it would be more beneficial to the defense as a whole if we upgraded the line, because even though our LBs can be improved upon, stronger play in front of them would help them to look better.

and while a pass catcher like Bryant, especially with the more than likely departure of Marshall seems like a smart move, if we can upgrade our OL, then our running game can really start moving well which opens up the passing game and helps Orton. and a QB with protection can make decent receivers look better than they are.

I would agree with most everything you said but I think it's been stated, even Josh has said so himself, it's not obvious Marshall is on his way out. That was just the fans and media getting their panties all in a wad because of what happened in the last game. Josh and BM both said they are past that, it was LAST season and now the focus is on this season. BM could very easily be on this team next year.

Now, about those lines. If McClain and the QB's go before our pick, I'm sure hoping Baltimore would want to move up to snag Bryant and give us their 2nd round pick. We could trade that 2nd round pick and the 25th pick to move back up to #18 or so and pick up a mid round 3rd. We could snag Dan Williams with #18 and then a solid Guard with our 2nd round pick. Then, that gives us two 3rd round picks and we can get Walton the Center and maybe add some LB depth with the other 3rd. Then from 4th on down, whatever.

BroncoMan4ever
02-04-2010, 02:37 AM
I would agree with most everything you said but I think it's been stated, even Josh has said so himself, it's not obvious Marshall is on his way out. That was just the fans and media getting their panties all in a wad because of what happened in the last game. Josh and BM both said they are past that, it was LAST season and now the focus is on this season. BM could very easily be on this team next year.

Now, about those lines. If McClain and the QB's go before our pick, I'm sure hoping Baltimore would want to move up to snag Bryant and give us their 2nd round pick. We could trade that 2nd round pick and the 25th pick to move back up to #18 or so and pick up a mid round 3rd. We could snag Dan Williams with #18 and then a solid Guard with our 2nd round pick. Then, that gives us two 3rd round picks and we can get Walton the Center and maybe add some LB depth with the other 3rd. Then from 4th on down, whatever.

i slightly agree that the talk about Marshall being gone is premature and pretty much just conjecture by fans and the media looking for something to b**** about. But with Marshall, i just envision us offering him a deal with a lot of outs on the franchises part based on him staying out of trouble, and no athlete will ever sign a deal like that. the thing working in our favor with him is the CBA problem. with it being unsure how to handle picks and the giving out of huge contracts it could hinder would be suitors from opening their wallets for the guy. that could put us in a favorable position to re sign him if no real good offers come in for him.

Rohirrim
02-04-2010, 05:30 AM
I would agree with most everything you said but I think it's been stated, even Josh has said so himself, it's not obvious Marshall is on his way out. That was just the fans and media getting their panties all in a wad because of what happened in the last game. Josh and BM both said they are past that, it was LAST season and now the focus is on this season. BM could very easily be on this team next year.

Now, about those lines. If McClain and the QB's go before our pick, I'm sure hoping Baltimore would want to move up to snag Bryant and give us their 2nd round pick. We could trade that 2nd round pick and the 25th pick to move back up to #18 or so and pick up a mid round 3rd. We could snag Dan Williams with #18 and then a solid Guard with our 2nd round pick. Then, that gives us two 3rd round picks and we can get Walton the Center and maybe add some LB depth with the other 3rd. Then from 4th on down, whatever.

I think Dan Williams will go for Larry Allen's record of 43 on the bench press at the Combine, and after that, he will go up into the top 15. You just can't beat strength at that position. Some people are saying the Chiefs will take him at 5. I really doubt he lasts to 18.

mhgaffney
02-04-2010, 05:47 AM
We could still trade down a few spots though and grab an extra pick -- maybe another 2nd or 3rd rounder - and still pick up a beastie in the mid first.

broncogary
02-04-2010, 06:25 AM
I wasn't saying it was bad the Schlereth was interested, just pointing out that he would have more interest in Iutapi than most due to his college.

He would be a good player to get if we can drop back about 10 spots or get him in the 2nd, but he was fairly disappointing in the senior bowl and doesn't look to be a good choice for a high 1st round selection. Way too many questions about technique and competition.

I know everyone is saying Iupati looked bad at the Senior Bowl, but according to John McClain of the Houston Chronicle,

"The offensive lineman whose stock is rising fastest is guard Mike Iupati (Idaho), who was so impressive at the Senior Bowl that scouts think he can play any position in the line."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6848306.html

lookin' glass
02-04-2010, 10:23 AM
If Berry were there when Denver picks should they take him regardless of other choices like Iupati, Williams, McClain.... despite more pressing needs along the lines? Do you think they should trade the pick for more bounty?

strafen
02-04-2010, 10:42 AM
If Berry were there when Denver picks should they take him regardless of other choices like Iupati, Williams, McClain.... despite more pressing needs along the lines? Do you think they should trade the pick for more bounty?I think we need to get people to solidify and anchor the OL.
Berry is rated high. He's the top safety on many draft mocks despite being a junior.
Not saying we're set on the secondary by any means, but we're ok for another year or two, plus we have a couple players from last year's draft that could emerge this year.
The OL needs help, and the sooner we can get help there, the sooner we could solidify the line.
Of course we need help up front on defense as well. Good push and dominance upfront will also help our secondary...

NFLBRONCO
02-04-2010, 10:48 AM
I think we need to get people to solidify and anchor the OL.
Berry is rated high. He's the top safety on many draft mocks despite being a junior.
Not saying we're set on the secondary by any means, but we're ok for another year or two, plus we have a couple players from last year's draft that could emerge this year.
The OL needs help, and the sooner we can get help there, the sooner we could solidify the line.
Of course we need help up front on defense as well. Good push and dominance upfront will also help our secondary...

I'm all for upgrading OL just not sure thats the best position to address at 11. I expect DL at 11

PRBronco
02-04-2010, 10:52 AM
If Berry were there when Denver picks should they take him regardless of other choices like Iupati, Williams, McClain.... despite more pressing needs along the lines? Do you think they should trade the pick for more bounty?

Naw, if Berry's there at our pick, we all lol at the previous 9 or 10 teams, take him and never look back. And then dominate.

****, if Berry makes it past the Chiefs, I'd say move up to take him.

strafen
02-04-2010, 10:56 AM
I'm all for upgrading OL just not sure thats the best position to address at 11. I expect DL at 11I agree.
I think we need to upgrade the people in the trenches if you will.
Those are areas of immediate attention and must be dealt right now.

The other problem I see is that we don't have anybody to build this team around on.
We don't have a QB that we can build this team around, and we don't have a dominant running back that we could do the same.
This is a problem because by not having a QB to build a team around, we need to draft one, or groom Brandstater, only then we can start to build the pieces around him. The OL is a good start regardless of the QB. A DL is also a good starting point, but we still need to figure out TE's, WR's and RB's to have an operational offense with some kind of identity...

NFLBRONCO
02-04-2010, 11:08 AM
I agree.
I think we need to upgrade the people in the trenches if you will.
Those are areas of immediate attention and must be dealt right now.

The other problem I see is that we don't have anybody to build this team around on.
We don't have a QB that we can build this team around, and we don't have a dominant running back that we could do the same.
This is a problem because by not having a QB to build a team around, we need to draft one, or groom Brandstater, only then we can start to build the pieces around him. The OL is a good start regardless of the QB. A DL is also a good starting point, but we still need to figure out TE's, WR's and RB's to have an operational offense with some kind of identity...

Yep I agree with your post. Trenches are huge but, at 11 I'd still rather draft BPA at 11 I hope that player is on the lines.

strafen
02-04-2010, 12:15 PM
Who are the top G prospects behind iupati?There's a guard from Illinois who is projected as the second best guard in the draft behind Iupati

Dos Rios
02-04-2010, 12:23 PM
BPA regardless of position. As long as the guy is over 6'4"/300 lbs and can benchpress a horse, I don't care if he's a field stretching wr, scatback or just happens to play defensive tackle.

misturanderson
02-04-2010, 12:29 PM
I know everyone is saying Iupati looked bad at the Senior Bowl, but according to John McClain of the Houston Chronicle,

"The offensive lineman whose stock is rising fastest is guard Mike Iupati (Idaho), who was so impressive at the Senior Bowl that scouts think he can play any position in the line."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6848306.html

I assume that this was written before the actual game. He looked very out of place in every position they tried him at other than LG in the game. He also didn't show great hand technique and looks a little more raw than he was expected to. People are thinking that he will probably get a lot of holding calls unil he fixes his hand technique, which is the last thing we need on this team. Holding penalties killed way too many of our drives last year.

I would not be against picking him up, in fact I would love to see him on our team, but I doubt he will be BPA at #10 or 11. I would venture to guess that there will be at least a couple OL or DL players that would be better picks at our draft spot unless he absolutely tests off the charts at the combine.

misturanderson
02-04-2010, 12:31 PM
Naw, if Berry's there at our pick, we all lol at the previous 9 or 10 teams, take him and never look back. And then dominate.

****, if Berry makes it past the Chiefs, I'd say move up to take him.

Ain't that the truth. While we're dreaming though, why not dream about Gerald McCoy or Suh falling to our pick? Those are the only 2 players I would take over Berry in this draft.

broncogary
02-04-2010, 05:43 PM
I assume that this was written before the actual game. He looked very out of place in every position they tried him at other than LG in the game. He also didn't show great hand technique and looks a little more raw than he was expected to. People are thinking that he will probably get a lot of holding calls unil he fixes his hand technique, which is the last thing we need on this team. Holding penalties killed way too many of our drives last year.

I would not be against picking him up, in fact I would love to see him on our team, but I doubt he will be BPA at #10 or 11. I would venture to guess that there will be at least a couple OL or DL players that would be better picks at our draft spot unless he absolutely tests off the charts at the combine.

It was just written yesterday, but it's possible that the discussions he had with the scouts were before the game.

BroncoMan4ever
02-04-2010, 05:51 PM
If Berry were there when Denver picks should they take him regardless of other choices like Iupati, Williams, McClain.... despite more pressing needs along the lines? Do you think they should trade the pick for more bounty?

unless Berry is going to be the next Ed Reed and have immediate major impact, i say we trade back and pick up additional picks and then draft Iupati or DL. as much as secondary players would be a welcome addition, it doesn;t matter who plays in the secondary if the line can't do anything.

PRBronco
02-04-2010, 06:05 PM
unless Berry is going to be the next Ed Reed and have immediate major impact, i say we trade back and pick up additional picks and then draft Iupati or DL. as much as secondary players would be a welcome addition, it doesn;t matter who plays in the secondary if the line can't do anything.

That's actually the popular comparison for him so far!

eddie mac
02-13-2010, 07:02 PM
I think Alualu will be a very good player, but name one 3-4 DE that is a "STAR" anymore :strong: Yeah, not easy.

I'd go for the Smith's personally and the former Patriot, now Raider.

How's things anyway Med, long time no talk.