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Bronco Rob
02-02-2010, 04:32 AM
Hall of Fame debate: If Sayers is in, TD should be a lock


By Patrick Saunders
The Denver Post


Updated: 02/01/2010 03:20:02 PM MST



For longtime Broncos fans, Super Bowl Saturday, not Super Bowl Sunday, is what matters most.

Saturday is when Broncomaniacs discover whether or not franchise legend Floyd Little or elite pass-catching tight end Shannon Sharpe enter the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

The Denver Post's Mark Kiszla wrote a terrific profile of Little in Sunday's paper. Broncos beat writer Mike Klis blogs that if quarterback Kurt Warner is worthy of the Hall of Fame, then former Broncos running back Terrell Davis is even more deserving.

Here's my take on the T.D. candidacy: If Chicago Bears great Gayle Sayers has a bust in Canton, Davis deserve one too.

Sayers the Kansas Comet was one of the most exciting forces of nature ever unleashed on the NFL. His stats are impressive, too. In seven injury plagued seasons, he rushed for 4,956 yards and 39 rushing touchdowns. He averaged 5.0 yards per carry and 72.9 yards rushing per game. Plus, don't forget that he was an amazing kick returner.

But T.D.'s regular-season rushing numbers actually eclipse Sayers'. In his seven seasons knee injuries also cut short Davis' career T.D. rushed for 7,607 yards and 60 TDs. He averaged 4.6 yards per carry and 97.5 yards per game. Remember, too, that in 1998 he rushed for 2,008 yards and was named league MVP.

But it's Davis' postseason resume that should make him a lock for the Hall of Fame. T.D. is arguably the best playoff running back in NFL history. In eight career playoff games he ran for 1,140 yards rushing on 204 carries and 12 touchdowns, leading the Broncos to back-to-back Super Bowl titles.

During his postseason career, Davis averaged an incredible 143 rushing yards per game. Projected over a full NFL season, Davis' numbers would be: 408 carries, 2,280 yards (5.59 average) and 24 touchdowns.

On the biggest stage, T.D. stole the show.






http://www.denverpost.com/ci_14310624

Killericon
02-02-2010, 04:40 AM
In eight career playoff games he ran for 1,140 yards

I never heard that particular stat before. Sweet jesus.

Blueflame
02-02-2010, 05:01 AM
Hall of Fame debate: If Sayers is in, TD should be a lock


By Patrick Saunders
The Denver Post


Updated: 02/01/2010 03:20:02 PM MST



For longtime Broncos fans, Super Bowl Saturday, not Super Bowl Sunday, is what matters most.

Saturday is when Broncomaniacs discover whether or not franchise legend Floyd Little or elite pass-catching tight end Shannon Sharpe enter the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

The Denver Post's Mark Kiszla wrote a terrific profile of Little in Sunday's paper. Broncos beat writer Mike Klis blogs that if quarterback Kurt Warner is worthy of the Hall of Fame, then former Broncos running back Terrell Davis is even more deserving.

Here's my take on the T.D. candidacy: If Chicago Bears great Gayle Sayers has a bust in Canton, Davis deserve one too.

Sayers the Kansas Comet was one of the most exciting forces of nature ever unleashed on the NFL. His stats are impressive, too. In seven injury plagued seasons, he rushed for 4,956 yards and 39 rushing touchdowns. He averaged 5.0 yards per carry and 72.9 yards rushing per game. Plus, don't forget that he was an amazing kick returner.

But T.D.'s regular-season rushing numbers actually eclipse Sayers'. In his seven seasons knee injuries also cut short Davis' career T.D. rushed for 7,607 yards and 60 TDs. He averaged 4.6 yards per carry and 97.5 yards per game. Remember, too, that in 1998 he rushed for 2,008 yards and was named league MVP.

But it's Davis' postseason resume that should make him a lock for the Hall of Fame. T.D. is arguably the best playoff running back in NFL history. In eight career playoff games he ran for 1,140 yards rushing on 204 carries and 12 touchdowns, leading the Broncos to back-to-back Super Bowl titles.

During his postseason career, Davis averaged an incredible 143 rushing yards per game. Projected over a full NFL season, Davis' numbers would be: 408 carries, 2,280 yards (5.59 average) and 24 touchdowns.

On the biggest stage, T.D. stole the show.






http://www.denverpost.com/ci_14310624

... and that despite losing significant playing time in SB 32 due to the migraine....

watermock
02-02-2010, 05:03 AM
I bet that's record.

No wonder we abandoned the ZBS...

no-pseudo-fan
02-02-2010, 08:13 AM
Teams knew we were going to run and still couldn't stop it.

Those playoff numbers say it at. He played his best against the best.

ludo21
02-02-2010, 08:32 AM
I bet that's record.

No wonder we abandoned the ZBS...

;D

"ZBS System doesn't win titles"............ who said that, what a tard

atomicbloke
02-02-2010, 08:44 AM
TD doesn't belong in the hall. He never proved anything without Elway, Shanny, or HOF OL in Zimmerman and Nalen. Also, his playoff record doesn't count since he was on a Super Bowl winning team during that run.

Rohirrim
02-02-2010, 08:46 AM
The HOF isn't good enough for TD.

WolfpackGuy
02-02-2010, 08:53 AM
For three years, he was the best back in the league.

I knew he wasn't going to be around much longer after his comeback when they beat the Jets in the middle of 2000. He STRUGGLED to break 100 yards that game. Sad, because he used to carry 75 yards in his back pocket.

Even with the rings, I'm not sure if his career merits HOF.

Definitely, the best back the Broncos have ever had.

Rabb
02-02-2010, 09:08 AM
TD doesn't belong in the hall. He never proved anything without Elway, Shanny, or HOF OL in Zimmerman and Nalen. Also, his playoff record doesn't count since he was on a Super Bowl winning team during that run.

that is the most retarded logic I have ever seen posted here, sorry.

By that logic, Elway never won A SB without Shanny and TD...so he doesn't belong either right?

SonOfLe-loLang
02-02-2010, 09:13 AM
He should be in for his playoff numbers alone.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-02-2010, 09:14 AM
TD doesn't belong in the hall. He never proved anything without Elway, Shanny, or HOF OL in Zimmerman and Nalen. Also, his playoff record doesn't count since he was on a Super Bowl winning team during that run.

Is this serious?

Jason in LA
02-02-2010, 09:32 AM
TD doesn't belong in the hall. He never proved anything without Elway, Shanny, or HOF OL in Zimmerman and Nalen. Also, his playoff record doesn't count since he was on a Super Bowl winning team during that run.

I can't believe I just read that. That's just dumb. I guess Montana should be taken out the HOF. That dude had everything around him.

PRBronco
02-02-2010, 09:34 AM
"In eight career playoff games he ran for 1,140 yards rushing on 204 carries and 12 touchdowns"
I never heard that particular stat before. Sweet jesus.

That's freakin sick.
Just for funsies I looked up LT's playoffs stats:
8 games, 96 carries for 327 yards (3.4 avg), 4 touchdowns. :giggle:

~Crash~
02-02-2010, 09:48 AM
TD doesn't belong in the hall. He never proved anything without Elway, Shanny, or HOF OL in Zimmerman and Nalen. Also, his playoff record doesn't count since he was on a Super Bowl winning team during that run.

are you for real if so please let me know and if there is any more people silly please help me with my Iggy list.

Jason in LA
02-02-2010, 09:48 AM
I've been making the argument for a long time that based on TD's resume he should get in. League MVP, Super Bowl MVP, three time All Pro (by his fourth season), and he is the greatest playoff back ever. It's not even close. He has by far the most rushing yards per game. 2nd is Riggins I believe with 111 yards per game. He has the highest average per carry at 5.8. Next is Dickerson with 5.2 yards per carry. In half a season worth of games against the best teams in the league he was on pace to go for over 2,000 yards. That's just insane. I mean, a lot of runners can put up big numbers during the regular season, when they get to play a lot of bad teams. But come playoff time nobody is bad.

I think longevity is important, but it can be overrated. Curtis Martin (who better not get in the HOF over TD) had longevity. But did he come close to accomplishing what TD did? Not even close. You know what longevity really is? A bunch of average seasons after a few great seasons. Think of Emmit Smith, who had longevity. Toss out his rookie year. From '91 to '95 the guy was a beast. 3 seasons over 1,500 yards (nearly 4 seasons, but he held out and went for 1,486), and he had two seasons above 1,700. But from '96 to '04, when he got his longevity and got the yards to break the all time record, he was just above average most of those years. He had two seasons in the 1,300 yard range, which is good, but certainly not HOF great. He had a bunch of seasons in the 1,000 to 1,200 range, which is really just average to above average. So why does a player need a bunch of average to above average seasons to validate the great seasons that he had earlier in his career? That doesn't make sense. If Smith retired after '95 he wouldn't be in the HOF because he wouldn't have a bunch of average to above average seasons? Does that make any sense?

I'm all for longevity, but I'd say that in certain cases it is overrated because longevity for a player can just be him compiling stats. I guess if TD didn't blow out his knees and had a bunch of seasons around 1,100 yards he'd be a shoe in. Yeah, that makes no sense at all.

Rohirrim
02-02-2010, 09:52 AM
TD is my favorite Bronco of all time, so I am biased. ;D

snowspot66
02-02-2010, 10:09 AM
I never heard that particular stat before. Sweet jesus.

He was a post season dominator. The epitome of clutch.

Pony Boy
02-02-2010, 10:09 AM
I love TD but I would put Atwater and Gradishar in before him.

Nalen, Smith and Bailey are locks.........

Rohirrim
02-02-2010, 10:12 AM
I love TD but I would put Atwater and Gradishar in before him.

Nalen, Smith and Bailey are locks.........

Nobody who wears the Orange & Blue is a "lock." If there's anything we've learned from the HOF, it's that. Frankly, I'll be surprised if they let Shannon in this time, and he's the best TE of all time.

BigPlayShay
02-02-2010, 10:23 AM
What the writer failed to do, which would have made his argument stronger, is mention that Sayers had no postseason stats. So, as good as he was, he did not impact his team the way that TD impacted the Broncos.

NFLBRONCO
02-02-2010, 10:32 AM
lack of respect in media is why he'll never go in even though he should without question.

Garcia Bronco
02-02-2010, 10:32 AM
I never heard that particular stat before. Sweet jesus.

Huh? He averaged well over 100 yards per playoff game and was/is the only back in NFL history to do so consecutively.

Garcia Bronco
02-02-2010, 10:34 AM
TD doesn't belong in the hall. He never proved anything without Elway, Shanny, or HOF OL in Zimmerman and Nalen. Also, his playoff record doesn't count since he was on a Super Bowl winning team during that run.

Seriously...go back to China and ****ing stay there.

loborugger
02-02-2010, 10:36 AM
I love TD but I would put Atwater and Gradishar in before him.

Nalen, Smith and Bailey are locks.........

Sorry, but no. There is a dirth of viable candidates waiting to get in. I dont see any of those names as locks. I dont see any Broncos - except Sharpe who hopefully gets in this years - as locks.

The arguement of "Sayers is in, therefore TD should be in" doesnt hold a whole lotta water outside of the Rocky Mtn region.

I love TD. I hope he gets in. But in an era where a 12000 yd career isnt an automatic trip to Canton, I dont see TD getting there.

bowtown
02-02-2010, 10:45 AM
I love TD but I would put Atwater and Gradishar in before him.

Nalen, Smith and Bailey are locks.........

Too early to say on Smith. He's still a rookie and struggled to get on the field as our nickle. I'd say there is a good chance of it happeneing, but probably a year too early to call it a lock for Alphonso.

PRBronco
02-02-2010, 10:47 AM
Sorry, but no. There is a dirth of viable candidates waiting to get in. I dont see any of those names as locks. I dont see any Broncos - except Sharpe who hopefully gets in this years - as locks.

The arguement of "Sayers is in, therefore TD should be in" doesnt hold a whole lotta water outside of the Rocky Mtn region.

I love TD. I hope he gets in. But in an era where a 12000 yd career isnt an automatic trip to Canton, I dont see TD getting there.

Nalen deserves to get in, he had a long, successful, decorated career, but it still won't be easy. Peter King is a big fan of Nails though; when he's eligible I think you'll see a lot of campaigning from King, which should be a big help.

strafen
02-02-2010, 10:50 AM
TD,1140 yards in 8 games!
That's remarkable
To put that in perspective, it will take 1st round and 12th overall selection in the 2009 NFL Draft by the Denver Broncos Knowshon Moreno, 19 games to get that many yards!

Jason in LA
02-02-2010, 11:02 AM
I love TD but I would put Atwater and Gradishar in before him.

Nalen, Smith and Bailey are locks.........

I'm a huge Rod Smith fan. But he's nowhere near a lock to get in, and I'd say that he probably doesn't get in. Only Broncos fans will try to make the argument that he should get in, and I don't think very many will.

Like it was mentioned earlier in this thread, there are a lot of players waiting to get in. The NFL HOF is weird. It's damn near impossible to get in. On top of that there is a log jam of WRs waiting to get in and the list keeps getting longer. The HOF voters will probably never get around to considering Smith.

Pony Boy
02-02-2010, 11:04 AM
Nobody who wears the Orange & Blue is a "lock." If there's anything we've learned from the HOF, it's that. Frankly, I'll be surprised if they let Shannon in this time, and he's the best TE of all time.


HOF Letter To Shannon Sharpe

Dear Mr. Sharpe,

The Hall of Fame voting committee regrets to inform you that you have not been elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame in the Class of 2009. We understand that, at the time of your retirement, you held ever single significant personal record that a tight end could possibly hold. Your 815 receptions, 10,060 receiving yards, and 62 career touchdowns put you in a class all your own.

Furthermore, it was difficult to look past your 8 Pro Bowl selections in 14 years, as well as the facts that you were selected as a first-team All Pro 4 times, a 2nd-team All Pro once, and a member of the All-Decade Team of the 1990's. These numbers would certainly warrant a first-ballot Hall of Fame selection. Also, yes, we are aware that you were a member of three Super Bowl Championship teams, as well as being the record holder for playing in and winning the most consecutive playoff games in NFL history.

Generally, people that transform and revolutionize their positions in the way that you did are elected to the Hall of Fame in their first year of eligibility. However, that rule only applies if those players happen to play in cities such as Pittsburgh, Dallas, Chicago, or Washington, D.C. You played 12 of your 14 NFL seasons in Denver, and the Pro Football Hall of Fame isn't in the habit of electing players that played for the Denver Broncos. How else could we explain the fact that there are only two Denver Broncos in the Hall of Fame? Since Gary Zimmerman was inducted last year, we just couldn't justify putting another Bronco in this year.

Out of 32 NFL franchises, only 9 - Baltimore, Atlanta, Carolina, Cincinatti, Houston, Jacksonville, New Orleans, Seattle, and Tampa Bay - have fewer Hall of Famers than Denver, and we intend to keep it that way. Granted, the Baltimore franchise has plenty of inductees under the Cleveland Browns moniker. New Orleans, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, and Cincinatti all have never had much success. Jacksonville, Carolina, and Houston have all come into the NFL in the past 15 years. We know that the Broncos have been around since 1960, and have been one of the most successful franchises in the NFL since the merger with the AFL in 1970. Denver's 2 Super Bowl wins, 6 AFC Championships, and 8 appearances in AFC title games definitely put that franchise a cut above most, but we just don't want to have too many Denver Broncos in the Hall of Fame. Had you elected to go in as a Baltimore Raven, you probably would have been elected this year, since that team plays on the East Coast. However, we simply could not justify putting in another Denver Bronco. Thank you for your understanding.

Respectfully,

The Pro Football Hall of Fame Voters

P.S.
Don't worry, Cris Carter is getting a letter similar to this one.

PRBronco
02-02-2010, 11:09 AM
Nalen deserves to get in, he had a long, successful, decorated career, but it still won't be easy. Peter King is a big fan of Nails though; when he's eligible I think you'll see a lot of campaigning from King, which should be a big help.

Holy **** have you guys ever actually sat down and looked at Nalen's career? I just read his bio on the Broncos page and his Wiki page. His career blows Dwight Stephenson's (the most recently inducted center I could think of) out of the water.

Rohirrim
02-02-2010, 11:36 AM
HOF Letter To Shannon Sharpe

Dear Mr. Sharpe,

The Hall of Fame voting committee regrets to inform you that you have not been elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame in the Class of 2009. We understand that, at the time of your retirement, you held ever single significant personal record that a tight end could possibly hold. Your 815 receptions, 10,060 receiving yards, and 62 career touchdowns put you in a class all your own.

Furthermore, it was difficult to look past your 8 Pro Bowl selections in 14 years, as well as the facts that you were selected as a first-team All Pro 4 times, a 2nd-team All Pro once, and a member of the All-Decade Team of the 1990's. These numbers would certainly warrant a first-ballot Hall of Fame selection. Also, yes, we are aware that you were a member of three Super Bowl Championship teams, as well as being the record holder for playing in and winning the most consecutive playoff games in NFL history.

Generally, people that transform and revolutionize their positions in the way that you did are elected to the Hall of Fame in their first year of eligibility. However, that rule only applies if those players happen to play in cities such as Pittsburgh, Dallas, Chicago, or Washington, D.C. You played 12 of your 14 NFL seasons in Denver, and the Pro Football Hall of Fame isn't in the habit of electing players that played for the Denver Broncos. How else could we explain the fact that there are only two Denver Broncos in the Hall of Fame? Since Gary Zimmerman was inducted last year, we just couldn't justify putting another Bronco in this year.

Out of 32 NFL franchises, only 9 - Baltimore, Atlanta, Carolina, Cincinatti, Houston, Jacksonville, New Orleans, Seattle, and Tampa Bay - have fewer Hall of Famers than Denver, and we intend to keep it that way. Granted, the Baltimore franchise has plenty of inductees under the Cleveland Browns moniker. New Orleans, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, and Cincinatti all have never had much success. Jacksonville, Carolina, and Houston have all come into the NFL in the past 15 years. We know that the Broncos have been around since 1960, and have been one of the most successful franchises in the NFL since the merger with the AFL in 1970. Denver's 2 Super Bowl wins, 6 AFC Championships, and 8 appearances in AFC title games definitely put that franchise a cut above most, but we just don't want to have too many Denver Broncos in the Hall of Fame. Had you elected to go in as a Baltimore Raven, you probably would have been elected this year, since that team plays on the East Coast. However, we simply could not justify putting in another Denver Bronco. Thank you for your understanding.

Respectfully,

The Pro Football Hall of Fame Voters

P.S.
Don't worry, Cris Carter is getting a letter similar to this one.

Ain't that the truth.

Rohirrim
02-02-2010, 11:37 AM
Holy **** have you guys ever actually sat down and looked at Nalen's career? I just read his bio on the Broncos page and his Wiki page. His career blows Dwight Stephenson's (the most recently inducted center I could think of) out of the water.

If he played for the Giants, he's a first ballot HOFer.

atomicbloke
02-02-2010, 11:57 AM
TD doesn't belong in the hall. He never proved anything without Elway, Shanny, or HOF OL in Zimmerman and Nalen. Also, his playoff record doesn't count since he was on a Super Bowl winning team during that run.

Jesus Christ.... are people too stupid here to detect sarcasm.... I used the same argument against TD, that the voters used against Sharpe last year...

atomicbloke
02-02-2010, 11:58 AM
Seriously...go back to China and ****ing stay there.

China? What's in China?

Jason in LA
02-02-2010, 12:38 PM
Jesus Christ.... are people too stupid here to detect sarcasm.... I used the same argument against TD, that the voters used against Sharpe last year...

When using typed sarcasm you have to make sure that it is obvious that you are being sarcastic. I'm just saying. ;D

BroncoMan4ever
02-02-2010, 12:58 PM
I bet that's record.

No wonder we abandoned the ZBS...

maybe we abandoned it because it doesn't work anymore as an exclusive running scheme for a team. it is useful through the course of a game, but not only that style of running. this can be evidenced by the fact tha tno NFL team that runs the ZBS has even reached the super bowl let alone won it since we did in 98.

BroncoMan4ever
02-02-2010, 01:04 PM
I never heard that particular stat before. Sweet jesus.

also, his 2008 rushing yards in 98 should have an asterics by it, simply because there were a number of games in which he left the game by at halftime or didn't play the 4th quarter.

Sir_Robin
02-02-2010, 02:46 PM
When using typed sarcasm you have to make sure that it is obvious that you are being sarcastic. I'm just saying. ;D

He was clearly using hyperbole. Worst case scenario this should have become evident somewhere around the time the reader reached Zimmerman's name.

MagicHef
02-02-2010, 03:20 PM
This place is immune to sarcasm a lot of the time.

rastaman
02-02-2010, 06:02 PM
TD doesn't belong in the hall. He never proved anything without Elway, Shanny, or HOF OL in Zimmerman and Nalen. Also, his playoff record doesn't count since he was on a Super Bowl winning team during that run.

Steve Young never proved anything w/o Jerry Rice and benefiting from the 49ers system stacked with talent on both sides of the ball, yet he's in the HOF!

Bronco Rob
02-03-2010, 03:15 AM
:thumbs:

The Moops
02-03-2010, 04:16 AM
I believe TD will get in during the next 5 years. He's a HOFer. If Sharpe doesn't get in, he should realize that the greatest tight end ever -- John Mackey -- didn't get in until 1992. Mackey retired in 1972. Tight ends, for whatever reason, usually have to wait, although Sharpe won't have to wait too much longer.

Floyd hopefully will get in . . . since his is more than worthy and this is basically his only, last chance.

watermock
02-03-2010, 06:18 AM
I'm rooting for Floyd but I don't think he makes it.

Sharpe and TD are no brainers.

Especially Shannon. He has 3 freakin' rings.