Obama Walks into the Lion's Den

[Rohirrim]

I've got to give him major kudos for this. This was gutsy. Bush would never, in a million years, have done something like this - Especially without a tele-prompter. This action is actually good for the country, IMO. Obama is going beyond the political boundaries to try and resurrect bipartisanship. I'm way too cynical to believe it will do any good. I believe the ideological entrenchment of the Right is impenetrable, but Obama is courageous to do this. Like he told the Republicans, the politicians in Washington aren't there to secure their own well-being, but to secure the well-being of the American people.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/35152390#35152390

[Spider]

:d ............

[enjolras]

If you only watch one part... watch it from 55:00 on.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/35147797#35147797

[cutthemdown]

This was another one of McCains ideas. Basically Obama saying McCain had better ideas then me, but it also says he's willing to not be stubborn and just say no to every other idea put forth.

I think Obama would like to be more center, but gets pulled left. Just like Bush IMO would have liked to be more center but let guys like Cheney pull him right.

The line item veto would be a huge weapon for a President. Surprised to hear repubs bring it up when the other party has white house.

[yavoon]

the funny part is obama has no problems with the house republicans. there is no filibuster, democrats have a solid majority and the house bill even came with a public option. methinks he missed his "showdown" target.

[JJJ]

This was another one of McCains ideas. Basically Obama saying McCain had better ideas then me, but it also says he's willing to not be stubborn and just say no to every other idea put forth.

I think Obama would like to be more center, but gets pulled left. Just like Bush IMO would have liked to be more center but let guys like Cheney pull him right.

The line item veto would be a huge weapon for a President. Surprised to hear repubs bring it up when the other party has white house.

No, no. He is in his core a progressive and extremely left. He was the most left voting senator in his very brief congressional career. He wants to give the impression he is center left and a compromiser but this is in speech only.

His political DNA is far left of what he is willing to show in public and his actions are clear, he has no intention of working with Republicans (e.g. the I won comment) but will put on appearances. He is a crafty manipulator of the English language and of his personal charm but he is sticking his liberal agenda knife in you the whole time.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I I'm way too cynical to believe it will do any good. I believe the ideological entrenchment of the Right is impenetrable, but Obama is courageous to do this.

No doubt about that whatsoever.

If eight years of Bush weren't enough to wake them up, then I'm afraid nothing will.

http://bartblog.bartcop.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/cartoon-fascist-america.gif

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.slowpokecomics.com/strips/stupiditycircle.png

[Spider]

damn ,Now Obama needs to go have the same talk with Democrats......

[barryr]

Actually, I believe Bush did talk to the democratic caucus, but it wasn't televised. But what keeps getting lost on the liberals is the republicans haven't been the problem since the democrats had the votes to do all they wanted, but have fought with themselves more than anything. Sure, makes them feel good to blame the other party since that's been the game for years, but reality says something different, which liberals tend not to live in that world.

[JJJ]

damn ,Now Obama needs to go have the same talk with Democrats......

:rofl:

Now that was funny. And good advice.

I am sure it would be a much more interesting and loud meeting.

[enjolras]

No, no. He is in his core a progressive and extremely left. He was the most left voting senator in his very brief congressional career. He wants to give the impression he is center left and a compromiser but this is in speech only.

His political DNA is far left of what he is willing to show in public and his actions are clear, he has no intention of working with Republicans (e.g. the I won comment) but will put on appearances. He is a crafty manipulator of the English language and of his personal charm but he is sticking his liberal agenda knife in you the whole time.

Except that his actual actions have shown your entire premise to be false. It's funny, the left is yelling and screaming that Obama tricked them into thinking that he was far more 'progressive' than he is.

I'll leave this on you: What has Obama proposed that would put him on the 'far left' of anything? The public health option? I suppose, but that was a privately administered as it was proposed.

Beyond that I see very little paint him as a leftist. His economics are fairly conservative. He's in favor of tax-cuts, just aimed at different folks than Republicans (which he's already enacted). He's taken steps towards a balanced budget, and I see no indication that he's going in a different direction. He's a strong advocate for PAYGO.

He's probably a bit more socially liberal than Republicans like, hardly out of line with the middle of the country. The reality is, we're not a nation of bible-thumpers no matter what O'Reilly would want you to believe.

In short... I don't see any measure by which Obama is anything but downright moderate. The only people who would say different are the ones crafting their own reality on FOX news and the right-wing AM radio talk shows.

[Spider]

Actually, I believe Bush did talk to the democratic caucus, but it wasn't televised. But what keeps getting lost on the liberals is the republicans haven't been the problem since the democrats had the votes to do all they wanted, but have fought with themselves more than anything. Sure, makes them feel good to blame the other party since that's been the game for years, but reality says something different, which liberals tend not to live in that world.

even people on the same side of the isle as you think youre stupid .........

[Spider]

Except that his actual actions have shown your entire premise to be false. It's funny, the left is yelling and screaming that Obama tricked them into thinking that he was far more 'progressive' than he is.

I'll leave this on you: What has Obama proposed that would put him on the 'far left' of anything? The public health option? I suppose, but that was a privately administered as it was proposed.

Beyond that I see very little paint him as a leftist. His economics are fairly conservative. He's in favor of tax-cuts, just aimed at different folks than Republicans (which he's already enacted). He's taken steps towards a balanced budget, and I see no indication that he's going in a different direction. He's a strong advocate for PAYGO.

He's probably a bit more socially liberal than Republicans like, hardly out of line with the middle of the country. The reality is, we're not a nation of bible-thumpers no matter what O'Reilly would want you to believe.

In short... I don't see any measure by which Obama is anything but downright moderate. The only people who would say different are the ones crafting their own reality on FOX news and the right-wing AM radio talk shows.

LOL it is JJJ what do you expect ? obama will always be left until Rush , InSannity , Beck say different ........

[Rohirrim]

Except that his actual actions have shown your entire premise to be false. It's funny, the left is yelling and screaming that Obama tricked them into thinking that he was far more 'progressive' than he is.

I'll leave this on you: What has Obama proposed that would put him on the 'far left' of anything? The public health option? I suppose, but that was a privately administered as it was proposed.

Beyond that I see very little paint him as a leftist. His economics are fairly conservative. He's in favor of tax-cuts, just aimed at different folks than Republicans (which he's already enacted). He's taken steps towards a balanced budget, and I see no indication that he's going in a different direction. He's a strong advocate for PAYGO.

He's probably a bit more socially liberal than Republicans like, hardly out of line with the middle of the country. The reality is, we're not a nation of bible-thumpers no matter what O'Reilly would want you to believe.

In short... I don't see any measure by which Obama is anything but downright moderate. The only people who would say different are the ones crafting their own reality on FOX news and the right-wing AM radio talk shows.

Just shows, by contrast, how fanatical the Right has become. They're edging up on the fascist meter to about the category of storm trooper.

[Stormontheplains]

I was impressed with what he had to say, I was unhappy to see him pout quite a bit. He is very defensive with certain questions, which countered dont take it personall and work together spill

[SoCalBronco]

The line item veto would be a huge weapon for a President. Surprised to hear repubs bring it up when the other party has white house.

The line item veto was declared unconstitutional in Clinton v. New York. It's gone (although I agree it would be a great way to slash spending).

[JJJ]

Except that his actual actions have shown your entire premise to be false. It's funny, the left is yelling and screaming that Obama tricked them into thinking that he was far more 'progressive' than he is.

I'll leave this on you: What has Obama proposed that would put him on the 'far left' of anything? The public health option? I suppose, but that was a privately administered as it was proposed.

Beyond that I see very little paint him as a leftist. His economics are fairly conservative. He's in favor of tax-cuts, just aimed at different folks than Republicans (which he's already enacted). He's taken steps towards a balanced budget, and I see no indication that he's going in a different direction. He's a strong advocate for PAYGO.

He's probably a bit more socially liberal than Republicans like, hardly out of line with the middle of the country. The reality is, we're not a nation of bible-thumpers no matter what O'Reilly would want you to believe.

In short... I don't see any measure by which Obama is anything but downright moderate. The only people who would say different are the ones crafting their own reality on FOX news and the right-wing AM radio talk shows.

Now this is an even funnier post.

He is on the record stating that his preference is a public option and that is a very left position. He left his most left-wing leaders in charge of drafting health care knowing it would come out as far left as it can possible be and still pass. He would finish off the job the next time if it didn't get him the full public option which he has publicly stated is his goal.

Tax cuts, you are kidding right. He will have to pay for these programs. The tax increases are coming I assure you. It is naive to think otherwise. And amazingly he has come up with a way that Democrats, not because they don't make a lot of money, but simply because they are Democrats, are not subject to his tax increases. That Union exemption of cadillac plans is the ultimate hypocrisy and clearly favors the left.

Balanced budgets. The deficit has doubled in less than a year in office. You have bought into his token spending freezes long after the horse has left the barn. These freezes come on the heals of unprecidented increases in the same departments. And another "jobs" bill on the way. Ha, ha. Balanced budgets, that is a good one.

You have bought into the PAYGO deception which is supported by the Dems because of its feature to not allow revenue reductions without offsetting it with tax increases elsewhere. Clearly a vehichle to steer the collections away from his constituants. God forbid we actually lower spending. That being said PAYGO probably works and I would give him credit if he signed it again.

He is giving Miranda rights to terrorists. You cannot get much more left than that.

He thinks you can negotiate with Iran. Can't get much more left than that.

By any measure of left and right his voting record is far, far left.

He is a magician, don't watch his hands.

[Rigs11]

RUSSERT: Tom Cole — former head of the NRCC, congressman from Oklahoma — said, “He scored many points. He did really well.” Barack Obama, for an hour and a half, was able to refute every single Republican talking point used against him on the major issues of the day. In essence, it was almost like a debate where he was front and center for the majority of it. … One Republican said to me, off the record, behind closed doors: “It was a mistake that we allowed the cameras to roll like that. We should not have done that.”

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/29/russert-gop-obama/

[rastaman]

Actually, I believe Bush did talk to the democratic caucus, but it wasn't televised. But what keeps getting lost on the liberals is the republicans haven't been the problem since the democrats had the votes to do all they wanted, but have fought with themselves more than anything. Sure, makes them feel good to blame the other party since that's been the game for years, but reality says something different, which liberals tend not to live in that world.

Meh! Bush also used Reconciliation, his veto pen, and executive orders to get his agenda passed over 8 years.

So tell me something Barrrryr will you conservative-fence straddling independent Republicans come on un-glued when Obama start using Reconciliation, veto pen, and executive orders at the same rate Bush had done?

Remember, the party that lost is not in the position to demand not a God Damned Thing. The party that lost should count their lucky stars if they are allowed to COMPROMISE! AND THAT'S IT!

[rastaman]

Now this is an even funnier post.

He is on the record stating that his preference is a public option and that is a very left position. He left his most left-wing leaders in charge of drafting health care knowing it would come out as far left as it can possible be and still pass. He would finish off the job the next time if it didn't get him the full public option which he has publicly stated is his goal.

Tax cuts, you are kidding right. He will have to pay for these programs. The tax increases are coming I assure you. It is naive to think otherwise. And amazingly he has come up with a way that Democrats, not because they don't make a lot of money, but simply because they are Democrats, are not subject to his tax increases. That Union exemption of cadillac plans is the ultimate hypocrisy and clearly favors the left.

Balanced budgets. The deficit has doubled in less than a year in office. You have bought into his token spending freezes long after the horse has left the barn. These freezes come on the heals of unprecidented increases in the same departments. And another "jobs" bill on the way. Ha, ha. Balanced budgets, that is a good one.

You have bought into the PAYGO deception which is supported by the Dems because of its feature to not allow revenue reductions without offsetting it with tax increases elsewhere. Clearly a vehichle to steer the collections away from his constituants. God forbid we actually lower spending. That being said PAYGO probably works and I would give him credit if he signed it again.

He is giving Miranda rights to terrorists. You cannot get much more left than that.

He thinks you can negotiate with Iran. Can't get much more left than that.

By any measure of left and right his voting record is far, far left.

He is a magician, don't watch his hands.

JJJ.....Shut Up! All you're doing is posting more Republican Obstructionism. You guys are crying, biitching and moaning plain and simple. Obama has already exposed conservative voters and their fence straddling fair weather independent voters to be obtstructionist to the entire country.

So when Obama starts to implement Reconciliation, the use of the veto pen, and using executive orders, the public will be behind him b/c for once the American people will realized that Obama had no other choice

JJJ, all you conservative sore loser Republican't and your fair weather independent voters must realize that when you don't win elections....they have consequences. Republicans and conservatives lost and they are foolish to believe that they can demand that all their agenda's should be passed. Hell....you conservatives lost the election by over 10 million votes!

Wake up, you conservative Republicans LOST....now you have no other choice but to COMPROMISE!!!

[Garcia Bronco]

You guys are crying, biitching and moaning plain and simple

Who are you talking about?

[rastaman]

Who are you talking about?

I'm talking about Republican conservatives supporting the Party of NO and Obstructionism. You and JJJ have been complaining as if your party won the election! You lost the election by over 10 million votes. Obama won over 360 electorial states out 525! Elections have consequences and the GOP are behaving as if they have won the WH.

You tell me when the Obstructionist-Party of No Repbulicans will finally realize they lost and start compromising to Move This Country Forward?

[rastaman]

RUSSERT: Tom Cole — former head of the NRCC, congressman from Oklahoma — said, “He scored many points. He did really well.” Barack Obama, for an hour and a half, was able to refute every single Republican talking point used against him on the major issues of the day. In essence, it was almost like a debate where he was front and center for the majority of it. … One Republican said to me, off the record, behind closed doors: “It was a mistake that we allowed the cameras to roll like that. We should not have done that.”

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/29/russert-gop-obama/

The Party of NO and Obstructionism walked right into Obama's trap and have now been exposed as a Party with no suggestions and the lack of "Will and Integrity" to Compromise.

Now when Obama starts to strategcially using Reconciliatiion, the veto pen, and executive orders to get the work done for the people....the publica will understand and support Obama.

[Rigs11]

The Party of NO and Obstructionism walked right into Obama's trap and have now been exposed as a Party with no suggestions and the lack of "Will and Integrity" to Compromise.

Now when Obama starts to strategcially using Reconciliatiion, the veto pen, and executive orders to get the work done for the people....the publica will understand and support Obama.

yep and that "fair and balanced" news network was the only to cut away and not show the whole thing.

[Garcia Bronco]

I'm talking about Republican conservatives supporting the Party of NO and Obstructionism. You and JJJ have been complaining as if your party won the election! You lost the election by over 10 million votes. Obama won over 360 electorial states out 525! Elections have consequences and the GOP are behaving as if they have won the WH.

You tell me when the Obstructionist-Party of No Repbulicans will finally realize they lost and start compromising to Move This Country Forward?

The republicans have obstructed nothing and until two weeks ago was powerless to stop anything. Obama nor Nancy nor Reid has needed one...not one "republican" vote to pass anything. Try again, loser.

[Rigs11]

The republicans have obstructed nothing and until two weeks ago was powerless to stop anything. Obama nor Nancy nor Reid has needed one...not one "republican" vote to pass anything. Try again, loser.

A record 101 fillibusters last year. That's not obstruction?

[rastaman]

The republicans have obstructed nothing and until two weeks ago was powerless to stop anything. Obama nor Nancy nor Reid has needed one...not one "republican" vote to pass anything. Try again, loser.

You are the loser Jack Azz b/c your party lost the election. Obama didn't need the SC to select him into the WH like the GOP President needed.

You God Dam right the lossing party is POWERLESS----Elections have consequences. GW Bush used Reconciliation, the veto pen, and executive order to cramm legislation down the throats of Democrats and they were POWERLESS TO STOP the Bush reconciliation, his veto pen, and executive orders....AND HIS PRESIDENTIAL SIGNING STATEMENTS.

Now GB tell me why you did not complaim how GW Bush and GOP Congress ran rough shod over this nation and the Democratic Congress from 2001-2006?

STOP YOUR BELLYACHING AND TAKE YOUR MEDICINE LIKE MAN.....YOU SKIRT WEARING SISSY!

[cutthemdown]

I'm talking about Republican conservatives supporting the Party of NO and Obstructionism. You and JJJ have been complaining as if your party won the election! You lost the election by over 10 million votes. Obama won over 360 electorial states out 525! Elections have consequences and the GOP are behaving as if they have won the WH.

You tell me when the Obstructionist-Party of No Repbulicans will finally realize they lost and start compromising to Move This Country Forward?

Your own Senate leader is quoted as saying he feels the fillibuster is a perfectly sound and fair weapon for the minority party to wield. If anything dems getting there own medicine.

[rastaman]

A record 101 fillibusters last year. That's not obstruction?

GB has no comeback for the record setting Republican Filibusters.

[rastaman]

Your own Senate leader is quoted as saying he feels the fillibuster is a perfectly sound and fair weapon for the minority party to wield. If anything dems getting there own medicine.

Meh! Thats what reconciliation is for to bust up Republican Filibusters and obstructionism.

Cutty just admit it you and your ilk will cry, bittttch moan and complain when Obama decides to use Reconciliation, the veto pen, executive orders, and presidential signing statements just like GW Bush had done.

Funny how you cry baby conservative fence straddling independent Republican'ts are such cowards and complainers. What a Joke!

[Garcia Bronco]

A record 101 fillibusters last year. That's not obstruction?

You can't filibuster when the other p[arty has a super majority

[cutthemdown]

Meh! Thats what reconciliation is for to bust up Republican Filibusters and obstructionism.

Cutty just admit it you and your ilk will cry, bittttch moan and complain when Obama decides to use Reconciliation, the veto pen, executive orders, and presidential signing statements just like GW Bush had done.

Funny how you cry baby conservative fence straddling independent Republican'ts are such cowards and complainers. What a Joke!

I haven't once said I think Reconciliation is unfair. If cloture rule is a rule then it's a fair tool to use also. Both of them are fair and IMO are a check and balance against each other.....I guess. I'm no expert on how Congress works I just no the basics.

I actually agree with mandatory insurance for all and many other things that health reform will do so it's not a huge deal for me really. I buy Kaiser I can't see it getting worst really lol. But I still pay cash to go see my old doctor from when I had a ppo. He's just that good.

I have no problem with Obama doing whatever he can to get his agenda forward outside of the special deal for Nebraska and the unions. Any new tax should go evenly out to all the states to help pay for it. I think even you can agree with that right?

My point on reconcilliation is it expires right and has to be re-voted on, and also can't add to deficit. Makes it seem not perfect for something like long term health reform. Great for quick tax increases or decreases which expire. Also my point is that a lot dems could lose election because taking that path. Using reconcilliation to tax away tax goes over better then using it to add tax. Even you can see that difference right?

Healthcare is a loser for many dems because it won't kick in until long after the tax and they are voted out of office. You say they should take one for the team but you are talking about peoples dreams of becoming Senators and Congressman. They have tons of reasons to not go along with this.

So please Rasta lay out for me how you think Dem leadership gets 9-10 dems to fall on the sword to pass this through reconcilliation. Rumor has it even Barbara Boxer in trouble now. She hasn't even had to try to get re-elected up until now.

[Fedaykin]

You can't filibuster when the other p[arty has a super majority

In order to break a filibuster, you have to have 60 votes, not just 60 seats.

[Rigs11]

You can't filibuster when the other p[arty has a super majority

I thought they could still filibuster but then the majority would end the debate. Isn't this how it works?

[Garcia Bronco]

I thought they could still filibuster but then the majority would end the debate. Isn't this how it works?

Unless you have 40 senators you can't have "endless debate" to end. Unless I am missing something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster

[Garcia Bronco]

In order to break a filibuster, you have to have 60 votes, not just 60 seats.

Exactly. Thank you. So to go end-round on the point...it was also democrats blocking this legislation or so-called 101 "republican" filibusters.

[Rigs11]

Exactly. Thank you. So to go end-round on the point...it was also democrats blocking this legislation or so-called 101 "republican" filibusters.

Your deducing skills aren't very good. So the filibuster count skyrockets when the repubs are in the minority and you don't see a connection here?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You are the loser Jack Azz b/c your party lost the election. Obama didn't need the SC to select him into the WH like the GOP President needed.

You God Dam right the lossing party is POWERLESS----Elections have consequences. GW Bush used Reconciliation, the veto pen, and executive order to cramm legislation down the throats of Democrats and they were POWERLESS TO STOP the Bush reconciliation, his veto pen, and executive orders....AND HIS PRESIDENTIAL SIGNING STATEMENTS.

Now GB tell me why you did not complaim how GW Bush and GOP Congress ran rough shod over this nation and the Democratic Congress from 2001-2006?

STOP YOUR BELLYACHING AND TAKE YOUR MEDICINE LIKE MAN.....YOU SKIRT WEARING SISSY!

This.

I've yet to hear GB or any other rightard offer an honest explanation for why their party was trounced in the last election.