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View Full Version : Broncos suspected tampering, but were happy to let Nolan go


TonyR
01-25-2010, 11:10 AM
Posted by Mike Florio on January 25, 2010 1:56 PM ET

A week after Broncos defensive coordinator Mike Nolan left the team, details are still trickling out regarding the circumstances that led to his 24-hour journey from Denver to Miami. (Or was it Milan to Minsk?)

Per a league source, the Broncos immediately suspected upon receiving a form requesting permission to interview Nolan for the same job in Miami that the Dolphins had been talking to Nolan, which would be a clear violation of the tampering rules.

But the source says the Broncos didn't care, because they were ready to part ways with Nolan. Nolan and coach Josh McDaniels were "too much alike," the source said, and so they routinely butted heads.

So, as Jason La Canfora of NFL.com recently reported, the split didn't occur because McDaniels told Nolan that the Broncos were going to stop blitzing, but because McDaniels and Nolan simply could no longer coexist. Miami's attempt to hire Nolan simply provided both sides with an escape route.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/25/broncos-suspected-tampering-but-were-happy-to-let-nolan-go/

http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/01/23/broncos-busy-filling-out-coaching-staff/

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 11:11 AM
Well bye.

Dagmar
01-25-2010, 11:12 AM
Color me shocked.

bap454
01-25-2010, 11:14 AM
Well Mcdaniels does know best.....right??

Rohirrim
01-25-2010, 11:15 AM
Too bad that now we'll have to let Dumervil go too.

jhns
01-25-2010, 11:16 AM
So McD can't even get along with his hand picked staff? Nice.

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 11:17 AM
Well Mcdaniels does know best.....right??

He's the CIC...so yeah.

This is becoming clearer. Nolan thought he shouldn't have to listen to a younger boss. You see it with older people all the time. I usually fire them. Good luck getting a new job at 45 with little experience outside of the company you've been working for these last 20 years.

Traveler
01-25-2010, 11:18 AM
But the source says the Broncos didn't care, because they were ready to part ways with Nolan. Nolan and coach Josh McDaniels were "too much alike," the source said, and so they routinely butted heads.

Too much alike?

Man-Goblin
01-25-2010, 11:20 AM
Shouldn't they still have tried to get some sort of compensation or penalty for the Dolphins?

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 11:21 AM
So McD can't even get along with his hand picked staff? Nice.

Hand picked and what's available are two different things. But even still....McDaniels, right or wrong, is in charge. Not Mike Nolan and not anyone else, except Pat Bowlen. If McDaniels wants hospital corners on a made bed in training camp...you better do it. It's not a democracy. It's a dictatorship

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 11:21 AM
Shouldn't they still have tried to get some sort of compensation or penalty for the Dolphins?

You'd have to prove it first. Good luck with that.

WolfpackGuy
01-25-2010, 11:23 AM
So McD can't even get along with his hand picked staff? Nice.

Well, he got Nolan's name because they share agents.

It just seems kinda weird how all of these people aren't "getting along" with him.

jhns
01-25-2010, 11:24 AM
Hand picked and what's available are two different things.

Riiiiight. I would say that if he gets to hire a guy, that guy is hand picked. Yes, you usually have to work with what's available when hand picking your coaches. That or have enough friends to tamper and get away with it.

DenverBrit
01-25-2010, 11:25 AM
So McD can't even get along with his hand picked staff? Nice.

McD didn't know Nolan when he was hired, they shared an agent, it didn't work out, that's all.

DenverBrit
01-25-2010, 11:27 AM
Hand picked and what's available are two different things. But even still....McDaniels, right or wrong, is in charge. Not Mike Nolan and not anyone else, except Pat Bowlen. If McDaniels wants hospital corners on a made bed in training camp...you better do it. It's not a democracy. It's a dictatorship

Just like most businesses.

2KBack
01-25-2010, 11:28 AM
Well, he got Nolan's name because they share agents.

It just seems kinda weird how all of these people aren't "getting along" with him.

who are "all these people?"

Nolan went from total control Head Coach, to assistant to a younger total control head coach, he didn't like it.

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 11:29 AM
Just like most businesses.

It's actually amusing. I am in charge and have a general direction on where I want to take the unit within the business and I get a bunch of "We used to do it this way", or "That won't work", or "I like to do it this way". I ask for suggestions and take them. I am not all knowing, but these long timers want to fight you on ever decision. It's best to send them on their way and then everybody can be happy.

jhns
01-25-2010, 11:29 AM
McD didn't know Nolan when he was hired, they shared an agent, it didn't work out, that's all.

Yes, this is not new information to me. It doesn't change my reply. How many times did Shanahan fire a guy after a single season because they couldn't get along?....

Beantown Bronco
01-25-2010, 11:33 AM
Too much alike?

Rumor has it that the quote came from McD's wife after he caught them in bed together.

Rohirrim
01-25-2010, 11:33 AM
Yes, this is not new information to me. It doesn't change my reply. How many times did Shanahan fire a guy after a single season because they couldn't get along?....

You mean, like defensive coordinators?

DenverBrit
01-25-2010, 11:33 AM
It's actually amusing. I am in charge and have a general direction on where I want to take the unit within the business and I get a bunch of "We used to do it this way", or "That won't work", or "I like to do it this way". I ask for suggestions and take them. I am not all knowing, but these long timers want to fight you on ever decision. It's best to send them on their way and then everybody can be happy.

I used to tell employees that we are a democracy, right up to the checkbook, then we become a dictatorship. :)

DenverBrit
01-25-2010, 11:34 AM
Yes, this is not new information to me. It doesn't change my reply. How many times did Shanahan fire a guy after a single season because they couldn't get along?....

I lost count. How many??

Edit. Are you now saying McD fired Nolan??

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 11:34 AM
Yes, this is not new information to me. It doesn't change my reply. How many times did Shanahan fire a guy after a single season because they couldn't get along?....

I can only think of 1

Bates 1 as DC
Ray Rhodes 2 as DC
Coyer 2 as DC

bap454
01-25-2010, 11:34 AM
Shouldn't they still have tried to get some sort of compensation or penalty for the Dolphins?

Kid Mcd doesnt know the meaning of that. he proved it last year in the draft when the Redskins were desperate to trade with denver to take Orakpo. Denver told them not to worry because they werent taking him anyhow.

DenverBrit
01-25-2010, 11:35 AM
I can only think of 1

Bates 1 as DC
Ray Rhodes 2 as DC
Coyer 2 as DC

Bates quit after being asked to coach LBs

worm
01-25-2010, 11:36 AM
Josh needs to learn the word "delegate".

Never have I seen so much been given to someone so young and unproven.

Made the single voice 'Face of the franchise'
Teamed with a very green "GM"
Being a 1st time head coach
Installing his offensive system
Oversight on the D

I can't think of any other person in his position trying to do so much. Not even one with HOF credentials.

Rohirrim
01-25-2010, 11:36 AM
I lost count. How many??

I think you're supposed to put your answer in the form of a question to win the Double Jeopardy.

jhns
01-25-2010, 11:37 AM
I can only think of 1

Bates 1 as DC
Ray Rhodes 2 as DC
Coyer 2 as DC


Really, those were because they couldn't get along? Funny, this is the first time I've hears that. I'm usually pretty good about keeping up on Bronco news.

2KBack
01-25-2010, 11:38 AM
Josh needs to learn the word "delegate".

Never have I seen so much been given to someone so young and unproven.

Made the single voice 'Face of the franchise'
Teamed with a very green "GM"
Being a 1st time head coach
Installing his offensive system
Oversight on the D

I can't think of any other person in his position trying to do so much. Not even one with HOF credentials.

You can only really delegate when you have a team of people that you KNOW are all on the same page. That takes some time.

UberBroncoMan
01-25-2010, 11:39 AM
Wonder what we would have gotten for proving it.

jhns
01-25-2010, 11:40 AM
You mean, like defensive coordinators?

Sure. Offensive coordinators or special teams coaches would work as well.

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 11:41 AM
i used to tell employees that we are a democracy, right up to the checkbook, then we become a dictatorship. :)

lol

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 11:43 AM
Really, those were because they couldn't get along? Funny, this is the first time I've hears that. I'm usually pretty good about keeping up on Bronco news.

What else would you call it? Oh you think it's personal? Might be. More likely it's professional.

Rhodes and Shanahan didn't get along
Coyer and Shanahan didn't get along
Bates and Shanahan didn't get along

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 11:44 AM
Bates quit after being asked to coach LBs

Because professionally he and Shanahan didn't get along with regards to how to run a defense. What other reason could there be?

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 11:45 AM
Josh needs to learn the word "delegate".

Never have I seen so much been given to someone so young and unproven.

Made the single voice 'Face of the franchise'
Teamed with a very green "GM"
Being a 1st time head coach
Installing his offensive system
Oversight on the D

I can't think of any other person in his position trying to do so much. Not even one with HOF credentials.

I am sure the day will come, but right now he needs to control every aspect because he wants it run his way regardless of how others like it.

jhns
01-25-2010, 11:46 AM
What else would you call it? Oh you think it's personal? Might be. More likely it's professional.

Rhodes and Shanahan didn't get along
Coyer and Shanahan didn't get along
Bates and Shanahan didn't get along

LOL

Riiight. They were fired for performance or quit for personal reasons. Not once did it come out that they couldn't work together because they didn't get along. Not once did one of those guys improve a unit only to have the head coach want them gone.

DenverBrit
01-25-2010, 11:47 AM
Because professionally he and Shanahan didn't get along with regards to how to run a defense. What other reason could there be?

That would be the reason. ;D

jhns
01-25-2010, 11:48 AM
Because professionally he and Shanahan didn't get along with regards to how to run a defense. What other reason could there be?

The defense got better. They say it wasn't due to scheme differences. Your little spin is failing big time.

snowspot66
01-25-2010, 11:48 AM
LOL

Riiight. They were fired for performance or quit for personal reasons. Not once did it come out that they couldn't work together because they didn't get along. Not once did one of those guys improve a unit only to have the head coach want them gone.

Coyer anybody?

He was given the Browncos and couldn't get a man to the QB to save his own life because of it but he got more out of that defense than I think any man alive had a right to.

DenverBrit
01-25-2010, 11:50 AM
LOL

Riiight. They were fired for performance or quit for personal reasons. Not once did it come out that they couldn't work together because they didn't get along. Not once did one of those guys improve a unit only to have the head coach want them gone.

It was mutual, or do you think McD, rather than Nolan, pre-arranged the Dolphins job?

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 11:50 AM
LOL

Riiight. They were fired for performance or quit for personal reasons. Not once did it come out that they couldn't work together because they didn't get along. Not once did one of those guys improve a unit only to have the head coach want them gone.

Doesn't matter on how the unit performed. You asked the question and you got the answer. It happened once after a year, and twice after 2 seasons. Why aren't they still here? Rhodes said he was leaving for health reasons only to show up days later as the DC for Seattle. It's because he and Shanahan didn't get along. Rhodes even said after he left that you can't run the defense Shanahan wanted with the players he had. They didn't see eye-to-eye. What's different here is how you've played it up in you own mind.

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 11:52 AM
Coyer anybody?

He was given the Browncos and couldn't get a man to the QB to save his own life because of it but he got more out of that defense than I think any man alive had a right to.

Damn...I was waiting on that to totally can him.

DenverBrit
01-25-2010, 11:53 AM
Doesn't matter on how the unit performed. You asked the question and you got the answer. It happened once after a year, and twice after 2 seasons. Why aren't they still here? Rhodes said he was leaving for health reasons only to show up days later as the DC for Seattle. It's because he and Shanahan didn't get along. Rhodes even said after he left that you can't run the defense Shanahan wanted with the players he had. They didn't see eye-to-eye. What's different here is how you've played it up in you own mind.

Not only that, but Shanny and Rhodes had worked together before and were reputedly friends.

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 11:53 AM
The defense got better. They say it wasn't due to scheme differences. Your little spin is failing big time.

You are wrong. Perhaps you should go to a dolphins board and work out your "little" ideas and then come back.

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 11:54 AM
Not only that, but Shanny and Rhodes had worked together before and were reputedly friends.

Indeed. It's professional.

It's never personal.

jhns
01-25-2010, 11:55 AM
You are wrong. Perhaps you should go to a dolphins board and work out your "little" ideas and then come back.

What part is wrong? I can prove both of those points pretty easily. Let me know which one you are having trouble with.

bowtown
01-25-2010, 11:56 AM
There was also a falling out between Shanahan and Alex Gibbs and Son.

There was a differnce of egos between Shotonheimer and AJ Smith

There was a differnce of egos between Belichick and Mangini.

There was a differnce of egos between Haley and Gailey

There was a differnce of egos between Al Davis and every coach he's ever had.

This is football. People have egos. McDaniels has a huge ego. Nolan also has a huge ego, ask any 49er fan. This is what happens. To be a head coach you have to have a lot of confidence in yourself and your philosophy, enough to go to the mat over it. I'd rather give McDaniels enough rope to succeed or hang himself in his first three years, and if that means Nolan has to go, so be it. If things don't get better though, there is only one guy left to blame but at least it won't be because we didn't give him every possible chance to succeed. This is how we did it was with Shanahan too. I think this is how Bowlen likes to run a franchise and I can't say that it hasn't worked for him pretty well so far.

WolfpackGuy
01-25-2010, 11:56 AM
who are "all these people?"


Jeremy Bates, Cutler, Hillis, Scheffler, Marshall...now Nolan.

I can't really include Turner and Dennison, but they got their checks for 2009 and split as soon as openings appeared that were friendly to them.

It just seems odd the general theme of "can't coexist with the head coach" keeps popping up.

bronco militia
01-25-2010, 11:58 AM
Rhodes left for medical reasons (thank god)...look it up

bowtown
01-25-2010, 11:59 AM
Rhodes left for medical reasons (thank god)...look it up

Yeah, his ass hurt from the Raider game.

jhns
01-25-2010, 12:02 PM
Jeremy Bates, Cutler, Hillis, Scheffler, Marshall...now Nolan.

I can't really include Turner and Dennison, but they got their checks for 2009 and split as soon as openings appeared that were friendly to them.

It just seems odd the general theme of "can't coexist with the head coach" keeps popping up.

I wouldn't bring this stuff up. "Bronco" fans now seem to think McDaniels is above the team. Any problem with anything is all on everyone other than McDaniels. Coaches and players on the Broncos will be thrown under the bus here to save Mr. BiggerthantheBroncos.

bowtown
01-25-2010, 12:03 PM
Jeremy Bates, Cutler, Hillis, Scheffler, Marshall...now Nolan.

I can't really include Turner and Dennison, but they got their checks for 2009 and split as soon as openings appeared that were friendly to them.

It just seems odd the general theme of "can't coexist with the head coach" keeps popping up.

Where did that come up in the context of Bates, Hillis, or Marshall? I've never heard any those guys say that. I also think that adding Bates to the list is a little bit of a reach, I don't know if he even ever met McDaniels.

snowspot66
01-25-2010, 12:04 PM
Jeremy Bates, Cutler, Hillis, Scheffler, Marshall...now Nolan.

I can't really include Turner and Dennison, but they got their checks for 2009 and split as soon as openings appeared that were friendly to them.

It just seems odd the general theme of "can't coexist with the head coach" keeps popping up.

Why is that odd? I'm not going to bash Shanahan for anything but his style is completely different to McDaniels. Shanahan ran club med and the only person on the entire team who took any flak was the DC.

McDaniels comes in and everybody is under the microscope. What the hell did Bates do to warrant any loyalty? All he did was OC the most unbalanced offense we've had in decades. The coddled players like Cutler and Scheffler didn't like being told they weren't good enough yet (even though he was right). Don't even mention Marshall. That's just Marshall. Even Shanahan was reportedly getting sick of him.

The only people that can't "co-exist" with McDaniels are the guys who want it their way the entire time and can't handle any change or criticism. You don't let idiots like that run a football team. Shanahan got away with it based purely on his long tenure, Super Bowl wins, and horrifying death glare.

bronco militia
01-25-2010, 12:04 PM
I "Bronco" fans now seem to think McDaniels is above the team. .

he is above the team...Pat Bowlen handed him Shanny's set of key's to the franchise.

snowspot66
01-25-2010, 12:06 PM
I wouldn't bring this stuff up. "Bronco" fans now seem to think McDaniels is above the team. Any problem with anything is all on everyone other than McDaniels. Coaches and players on the Broncos will be thrown under the bus here to save Mr. BiggerthantheBroncos.

He's the coach. He's in charge. He's the boss. If they can't handle it they can't be here. Nobody said anything to Shanahan because he was pretty relaxed in his treatment of players and everybody was terrified of him.

But McDaniels is younger and new so they think they can get away with ****.

jhns
01-25-2010, 12:07 PM
are the guys who want it their way the entire time and can't handle any change or criticism. You don't let idiots like that run a football team.

So McDaniels isn't like this? What?

MaloCS
01-25-2010, 12:09 PM
Everyone that thought the split was due to personality conflicts was "dead on balls" accurate. Everyone else that believed the split was "mutual" was duped by the party line.

There are just TOO many coincidences to have believed this split was anything but a difference in opinion and an exercise in authority.

:welcome:

RaiderH8r
01-25-2010, 12:11 PM
Hand picked and what's available are two different things. But even still....McDaniels, right or wrong, is in charge. Not Mike Nolan and not anyone else, except Pat Bowlen. If McDaniels wants hospital corners on a made bed in training camp...you better do it. It's not a democracy. It's a dictatorship

Unfortunately McKid looks more and more like he runs a banana republic.

bowtown
01-25-2010, 12:13 PM
Everyone that thought the split was due to personality conflicts was "dead on balls" accurate. Everyone else that believed the split was "mutual" was duped by the party line.

There are just TOO many coincidences to have believed this split was anything but a difference in opinion and an exercise in authority.

:welcome:

Ummm, where did you get exercise in authority from an article that talked about tampering?

jhns
01-25-2010, 12:13 PM
he is above the team...Pat Bowlen handed him Shanny's set of key's to the franchise.

No individual will ever be above the Broncos. This will be McDaniels undoing though. We need an actual NFL power structure here. No team is successful anymore with a head coach that tries to do it all. Not only is McDaniels trying to take on as much as Shanahan did, he is also trying to call the offensive plays. Can anyone try naming a similar situation that is actually working? I don't know of one. To think, all of those veterans can't handle this but McDaniels can.... The guy that was never a coach at any level, was only a coordinator for 2 years, and only in football for about 8 years.

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 12:15 PM
Rhodes left for medical reasons (thank god)...look it up

And then took a job with the Seahawks shortly there after.

outdoor_miner
01-25-2010, 12:15 PM
Jeremy Bates, Cutler, Hillis, Scheffler, Marshall...now Nolan.

I can't really include Turner and Dennison, but they got their checks for 2009 and split as soon as openings appeared that were friendly to them.

It just seems odd the general theme of "can't coexist with the head coach" keeps popping up.

I have no idea how Jeremy Bates or Peyton Hillis fit into your list??? If you want to add Bates, might as well add every single Shanny coach that McD didn't retain. And for Hillis - he is a guy that didn't play because the coach didn't think he was good enough. How does that fit into this?

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 12:18 PM
What part is wrong? I can prove both of those points pretty easily. Let me know which one you are having trouble with.

You haven't proven anything but your own embrassment.

DrFate
01-25-2010, 12:19 PM
Just like most businesses.

In most (successful) businesses, management tries to find a way to keep people who excel at their job. You don't run people off right and left simply because of a personal issue. It's called being a grown up.

bowtown
01-25-2010, 12:19 PM
No individual will ever be above the Broncos. This will be McDaniels undoing though. We need an actual NFL power structure here. No team is successful anymore with a head coach that tries to do it all. Not only is McDaniels trying to take on as much as Shanahan did, he is also trying to call the offensive plays. Can anyone try naming a similar situation that is actually working? I don't know of one. To think, all of those veterans can't handle this but McDaniels can.... The guy that was never a coach at any level, was only a coordinator for 2 years, and only in football for about 8 years.

Ken Weisenhunt
Sean Payton
Norv Turner
Mike McCarthy
Brad Childress
Wade Phillips (defense)

Just to name a few who have been to the playoffs THIS YEAR and call their own plays.

WolfpackGuy
01-25-2010, 12:20 PM
Bates left when it became apparent he wouldn't be involved in the play calling. He lasted about a week.

And do people really think Hillis was happy riding the bench?

bendog
01-25-2010, 12:21 PM
Den's front office suspecting something is like keeping up with the kardasians plot lines

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 12:21 PM
In most (successful) businesses, management tries to find a way to keep people who excel at their job. You don't run people off right and left simply because of a personal issue. It's called being a grown up.

I agree that you need discussion and you want talented people in postions, but they have to work within the direction you lay down has the person in charge.

WolfpackGuy
01-25-2010, 12:21 PM
Unfortunately McKid looks more and more like he runs a banana republic.

More like Moon Over Parador.

jhns
01-25-2010, 12:22 PM
You haven't proven anything but your own embrassment.

Says the guy with childish spins. Says the guy that has nothing but "you are wrong"....

I said I will prove it. What part are you having trouble with? I didn't say I had proven anything. I get now why you have these dumb spins. You can't even read, I shouldn't expect intelligent replies.

MaloCS
01-25-2010, 12:22 PM
Ummm, where did you get exercise in authority from an article that talked about tampering?

Ummm... read the bold text.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by Mike Florio on January 25, 2010 1:56 PM ET

A week after Broncos defensive coordinator Mike Nolan left the team, details are still trickling out regarding the circumstances that led to his 24-hour journey from Denver to Miami. (Or was it Milan to Minsk?)

Per a league source, the Broncos immediately suspected upon receiving a form requesting permission to interview Nolan for the same job in Miami that the Dolphins had been talking to Nolan, which would be a clear violation of the tampering rules.

But the source says the Broncos didn't care, because they were ready to part ways with Nolan. Nolan and coach Josh McDaniels were "too much alike," the source said, and so they routinely butted heads.

So, as Jason La Canfora of NFL.com recently reported, the split didn't occur because McDaniels told Nolan that the Broncos were going to stop blitzing, but because McDaniels and Nolan simply could no longer coexist. Miami's attempt to hire Nolan simply provided both sides with an escape route.

bowtown
01-25-2010, 12:23 PM
Bates left when it became apparent he wouldn't be involved in the play calling. He lasted about a week.

And do people really think Hillis was happy riding the bench?

I'm sure there are a lot of players who aren't good enough to play who are also unhappy they are sitting on the bench all over the league.

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 12:23 PM
I have no idea how Jeremy Bates or Peyton Hillis fit into your list??? If you want to add Bates, might as well add every single Shanny coach that McD didn't retain. And for Hillis - he is a guy that didn't play because the coach didn't think he was good enough. How does that fit into this?

Every time Hillis got on the field he didn't no where to line up, fumbled the ball, or just plain did it wrong. It's no wonder he had to ride the bench. It's where he belonged.

Cito Pelon
01-25-2010, 12:24 PM
I think the problem was that cheapass gutless drunk Bowlem made Nolan and McD share a bathroom. That always causes problems. Who knows how the toothbrush got wet?

DrFate
01-25-2010, 12:24 PM
I agree that you need discussion and you want talented people in postions, but they have to work within the direction you lay down has the person in charge.

If this was about Nolan, and only Nolan, it's a non-issue.

But the rats are fleeing the ship. Coaches, players, front office. I simply don't agree that McDaniels is more valuable than everybody else combined.

Being successful is sometimes about getting along with people and putting ego aside.

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 12:24 PM
Says the guy with childish spins. Says the guy that has nothing but "you are wrong"....

I said I will prove it. What part are you having trouble with? I didn't say I had proven anything. I get now why you have these dumb spins. You can't even read, I shouldn't expect intelligent replies.

Are you done? You haven't "proven it" because you can't.

bowtown
01-25-2010, 12:26 PM
Ummm... read the bold text.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by Mike Florio on January 25, 2010 1:56 PM ET

A week after Broncos defensive coordinator Mike Nolan left the team, details are still trickling out regarding the circumstances that led to his 24-hour journey from Denver to Miami. (Or was it Milan to Minsk?)

Per a league source, the Broncos immediately suspected upon receiving a form requesting permission to interview Nolan for the same job in Miami that the Dolphins had been talking to Nolan, which would be a clear violation of the tampering rules.

But the source says the Broncos didn't care, because they were ready to part ways with Nolan. Nolan and coach Josh McDaniels were "too much alike," the source said, and so they routinely butted heads.

So, as Jason La Canfora of NFL.com recently reported, the split didn't occur because McDaniels told Nolan that the Broncos were going to stop blitzing, but because McDaniels and Nolan simply could no longer coexist. Miami's attempt to hire Nolan simply provided both sides with an escape route.



I get that they didn't get along, Nolan wanted more power, and asked to leave, and McDaniels granted it. I don't see where the crushing iron fist authority comes into it.

jhns
01-25-2010, 12:26 PM
Ken Weisenhunt
Sean Payton
Norv Turner
Mike McCarthy
Brad Childress
Wade Phillips (defense)

Just to name a few who have been to the playoffs THIS YEAR and call their own plays.

Where you just failed is I know for a fact multiple of those guys are not the GM and do not take on GM duties. The majority of them do not have close to the control McDaniels has. I am not sure about all of them, so maybe one or two of those are good examples.

rmsanger
01-25-2010, 12:27 PM
McDaniels = George Bush... "The Decider" and we all know how that worked out... Get a bunch of yessir employees that don't deviate from the gifted path and the whole organization falls in line. The only part he can't control is the players and he's trying to weed them out 1 by 1.

In the end if we fail it's all on his shoulders and if we succeed it's mostly due to him. Live by the sword die by the sword.

bowtown
01-25-2010, 12:27 PM
Where you just failed is I know for a fact multiple of those guys are not the GM and do not take on GM duties. The majority of them do not have close to the control McDaniels has. I am not sure about all of them, so maybe one or two of those are good examples.

Josh McDaniels is not the GM of the Denver Broncos.

bowtown
01-25-2010, 12:28 PM
McDaniels = George Bush... "The Decider" and we all know how that worked out... Get a bunch of yessir employees that don't deviate from the gifted path and the whole organization falls in line. The only part he can't control is the players and he's trying to weed them out 1 by 1.

In the end if we fail it's all on his shoulders and if we succeed it's mostly due to him. Live by the sword die by the sword.

Why would you want a team of players that don't listen to the coach? He should weed those out one by one.

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 12:29 PM
If this was about Nolan, and only Nolan, it's a non-issue.

But the rats are fleeing the ship. Coaches, players, front office. I simply don't agree that McDaniels is more valuable than everybody else combined.

Being successful is sometimes about getting along with people and putting ego aside.

I agree that getting along is key, but regardless of who is more valuable the person in charge makes the decisions and he can't have someone on the staff going against the grain. I have had more than a few people employed that knew everything in the book, but they were worthless in the sense that they would not operate within the direction of the unit. Thereby negating the value of the intelligence they brought to the situation. They had to go despite their talent.

bowtown
01-25-2010, 12:30 PM
I agree that getting along is key, but regardless of who is more valuable the person in charge makes the decisions and he can't have someone on the staff going against the grain. I have had more than a few people employed that knew everything in the book, but they were worthless in the sense that they would not operate within the direction of the unit. Thereby negating the value of the intelligence they brought to the situation. They had to go despite their talent.

Napoleon.

jhns
01-25-2010, 12:30 PM
Josh McDaniels is not the GM of the Denver Broncos.

LOL

Riiiiiiight.....

WolfpackGuy
01-25-2010, 12:31 PM
In the end if we fail it's all on his shoulders and if we succeed it's mostly due to him. Live by the sword die by the sword.

Yeah, he's building himself the world's most expensive butter knife.

bigbucks24
01-25-2010, 12:31 PM
Everyone that thought the split was due to personality conflicts was "dead on balls" accurate. Everyone else that believed the split was "mutual" was duped by the party line.

There are just TOO many coincidences to have believed this split was anything but a difference in opinion and an exercise in authority.

:welcome:

Why can't it be both? Why can't it be that they didn't get along and both wanted to end the relationship? What am I missing.

jhns
01-25-2010, 12:31 PM
Are you done? You haven't "proven it" because you can't.

Good 5 year old response. I would expect nothing more from you.

bowtown
01-25-2010, 12:32 PM
Why can't it be both? Why can't it be that they didn't get along and both wanted to end the relationship? What am I missing.

McDaniels traded Cutler, duh.

Rohirrim
01-25-2010, 12:34 PM
Why can't they see it?
http://www.allhealthsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/anxiety-in-elderly.jpg
It's Josh. He's evil! Evil, I tell you!

DrFate
01-25-2010, 12:34 PM
They had to go despite their talent.

I'm just wondering where it ends, Garcia...

This isn't Parcells brought in to reboot the franchise. This is an unproven guy who has decided on a 'slash and burn' approach. How many coaches, players, and front office people have to 'go' simply because there is some issue with them and McDaniels? And at what point do the 'real fans' speak up and say 'no more'? Bailey? Dummerville? Clady?

colonelbeef
01-25-2010, 12:35 PM
So McDaniels couldn't get along with somebody. Shocker.

TonyR
01-25-2010, 12:37 PM
In most (successful) businesses, management tries to find a way to keep people who excel at their job. You don't run people off right and left simply because of a personal issue. It's called being a grown up.

Wow is this a naive take. Talented, high performing people leave their jobs all the time for various reasons. They hate their superior(s), they hate their job and/or circumstances, the get a better opportunity, etc. When egos clash the person in the superior position almost always wins unless there's someone higher up the food chain who dictates differently. It's very Darwinian.

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 12:39 PM
I'm just wondering where it ends, Garcia...

This isn't Parcells brought in to reboot the franchise. This is an unproven guy who has decided on a 'slash and burn' approach. How many coaches, players, and front office people have to 'go' simply because there is some issue with them and McDaniels? And at what point do the 'real fans' speak up and say 'no more'? Bailey? Dummerville? Clady?

But he is taking the Parcells approach. If people are counting the Goodmans, Jeremy Bates, and other people when McDaniels was hired, that seems dubious as the franchise was completely turning over. What I see her is a guy that used to be head coach, and maybe didn't adjust so well to not being the guy in charge of the team.

jhns
01-25-2010, 12:40 PM
. When egos clash the person in the superior position almost always wins unless there's someone higher up the food chain who dictates differently.

Of course, this all depends on your definition of "wins".

lostknight
01-25-2010, 12:41 PM
A awful lot of people here are sure making a lot of "Nolan wasn't willing to listen to a younger guy" claims, with absolutely no knowledge.

Dove Valley talking points strike again. All we know is that McDaniels wanted rid of Nolan. Period. Like McDaniels wanted a lot of other people gone.

DrFate
01-25-2010, 12:41 PM
Talented, high performing people leave their jobs all the time for various reasons. They hate their superior(s), they hate their job and/or circumstances, the get a better opportunity, etc. When egos clash the person in the superior position almost always wins unless there's someone higher up the food chain who dictates differently.

Again - taken in isolation, Nolan leaving is a non-starter. People DO leave for a variety of reasons. Happens all the time.

This isn't about only Nolan. This is about Goodmans/Cutler/Nolan/Marshall/etc. There is a common denominator in all these stories.

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 12:43 PM
Napoleon.

LOL.

I have heard that before, once we become unsuccessful...I'll listen to it. :)

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 12:45 PM
Again - taken in isolation, Nolan leaving is a non-starter. People DO leave for a variety of reasons. Happens all the time.

This isn't about only Nolan. This is about Goodmans/Cutler/Nolan/Marshall/etc. There is a common denominator in all these stories.

I don't think there is other than those people, minus Nolan and Marshall, didn't adapt to the change.

Marshall just wants to get paid and would be in jail if it wasn't for the NFL.

Paladin
01-25-2010, 12:46 PM
I'm just wondering where it ends, Garcia...

This isn't Parcells brought in to reboot the franchise. This is an unproven guy who has decided on a 'slash and burn' approach. How many coaches, players, and front office people have to 'go' simply because there is some issue with them and McDaniels? And at what point do the 'real fans' speak up and say 'no more'? Bailey? Dummerville? Clady?

"Real fans" speaking up and a dollar fifty will get you a cup of coffee. When McD signs on to this board and posts on it, Hades will have frozen over.

Bowlen is commited to McD. Period.

If you have never been the "boss", I don't know if you will understnad the need to maintain orgainzational integrity and committment to the same objectives. I had all 98 of my people on the same page, and if a staff member went rogue, there was a reckoning, not just from me, but from other staff and team leaders..... You listen to the people who have good ideas or who are helping to improve processes, but BS ends at the door....

DrFate
01-25-2010, 12:46 PM
But he is taking the Parcells approach.

Has he earned that? Bowlen said part of the problem was that Shanahan had too much power, that he wanted a GM and a head coach. Before the ink is try on Shanny's pink slip, McDaniel's is re-painting the stadium. Based on what was he given this much power?

What I see her is a guy that used to be head coach, and maybe didn't adjust so well to not being the guy in charge of the team.

You and I both know that is simply speculation on your part. I don't know why Nolan left. Maybe he slashed Hoodie Jrs tires. Maybe he sat in Bowlen's chair or put on his mink coat. Maybe he said Elway was overrated. Nobody here knows.

My point remains - Nolan seems to be just the latest symptom of a trend. It isn't just coaches - it's coaches, players, front office folks.

Paladin
01-25-2010, 12:47 PM
Again - taken in isolation, Nolan leaving is a non-starter. People DO leave for a variety of reasons. Happens all the time.

This isn't about only Nolan. This is about Goodmans/Cutler/Nolan/Marshall/etc. There is a common denominator in all these stories.


And therein lies the BS.....

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2010, 12:49 PM
Has he earned that? Bowlen said part of the problem was that Shanahan had too much power, that he wanted a GM and a head coach. Before the ink is try on Shanny's pink slip, McDaniel's is re-painting the stadium. Based on what was he given this much power?



Well for one....Bowlen normally gives the coach the most power. Pat Bowlen will straight up tell you has no business making football decisions. He is given this trust based on what Pat Bowlen thinks.

DrFate
01-25-2010, 12:51 PM
If you have never been the "boss", I don't know if you will understnad the need to maintain orgainzational integrity and committment to the same objectives.

I understand it well. I've also worked at more than one place where 'the boss' was an absolute dumbass, the organization floundered and failed due to constant mismanagement, and anyone with half a brain left ASAP.

This isn't a guy with a track record of success who is cutting dead weight. This is a guy with NO track record cutting, seemingly, anyone and everyone.

RaiderH8r
01-25-2010, 12:55 PM
Mike Nolan has character issues and doesn't fit into McKid's plan.

TonyR
01-25-2010, 12:55 PM
Again - taken in isolation, Nolan leaving is a non-starter. People DO leave for a variety of reasons. Happens all the time.

This isn't about only Nolan. This is about Goodmans/Cutler/Nolan/Marshall/etc. There is a common denominator in all these stories.

I suppose that's fair. But at the same time, when a company gets a new CEO or goes through a "management shakeup" there are usually a lot of changes. The senior people want "their" people, not somebody elses. Some are forced out, some see the writing on the wall and leave on their own. This doesn't make it a "good" thing but it is reality. It doesn't work without some minimal level of buy in and loyalty.

Rohirrim
01-25-2010, 12:57 PM
Mike Nolan has character issues and doesn't fit into McKid's plan.

I think it's because he refused to wear the hoodie.

DrFate
01-25-2010, 12:59 PM
I suppose that's fair. But at the same time, when a company gets a new CEO or goes through a "management shakeup" there are usually a lot of changes.

I agree. A CEO often changes top staff. But he/she doesn't change the entire company. In this context, I think the head coach should choose his staff. (for example, there was some talk about the TEN college job that they wanted the new HC to keep Kiffin's staff)

And maybe Nolan did something/didn't do something. In isolation, it's a non-story. But the trend, from where I sit, is to move the most established players and the most established coaches. I find it an unsettling trend.

jhns
01-25-2010, 01:00 PM
I understand it well. I've also worked at more than one place where 'the boss' was an absolute dumbass, the organization floundered and failed due to constant mismanagement, and anyone with half a brain left ASAP.

This isn't a guy with a track record of success who is cutting dead weight. This is a guy with NO track record cutting, seemingly, anyone and everyone.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Also, why is it that people actually think the NFL is the same as the companies they work for? These comparisons to how your ****ty business does stuff doesn't have a lot to do with anything. You start managing highly skilled labor and maybe these comparisons would be somewhat valid. Right now, they are laughable.

bendog
01-25-2010, 01:03 PM
coaches bring in their own asst coaches. It's worrisome that the two most talented offensive playmakers cannot exist with this guy. He's now got to replace a probowl qb and wr. Of course, he's a billicheat guy, so this should be easy for him.

I think its evident that the conflict with Nolan wasn't over what defensive philosophy of scheme, it was much more personal.

WolfpackGuy
01-25-2010, 01:04 PM
Mike Nolan has character issues and doesn't fit into McKid's plan.

He also has a clue which makes him doubly damned.

MaloCS
01-25-2010, 01:04 PM
I think the problem was that cheapass gutless drunk Bowlem made Nolan and McD share a bathroom. That always causes problems. Who knows how the toothbrush got wet?

Oh no you didn't! Hilarious!

MaloCS
01-25-2010, 01:06 PM
I get that they didn't get along, Nolan wanted more power, and asked to leave, and McDaniels granted it. I don't see where the crushing iron fist authority comes into it.

This is where we differ. I don't see it as Nolan wanting more power. I see it as the new coach taking power away from Nolan resulting in differing opinions and a request to leave.

Hulamau
01-25-2010, 01:07 PM
I lost count. How many??

Edit. Are you know saying McD fired Nolan??

Don't waste your breath Brit, mouth-breather's always seem to struggle with the finer points of logic.

WolfpackGuy
01-25-2010, 01:07 PM
He's now got to replace a probowl qb and wr.

Oh no, you didn't.

Better get your fire extinguisher.

snowspot66
01-25-2010, 01:09 PM
So McDaniels isn't like this? What?

When you are the head coach players don't get to criticize.

bendog
01-25-2010, 01:11 PM
Oh no, you didn't.

Better get your fire extinguisher.

Neckbeard for the probowl. lol

jhns
01-25-2010, 01:30 PM
Don't waste your breath Brit, mouth-breather's always seem to struggle with the finer points of logic.

How fat do you have to be in order to lose your breath when typing?

NYBronco
01-25-2010, 01:37 PM
Thanks, Nolan for the fine job you did improving the Bronco defense but all things considered it really wouldn't take much to improve a 29th ranked defense.

Good to see McD getting more of his program in order with those that want to work within his vision for this team.

Cito Pelon
01-25-2010, 02:06 PM
The same posters that thought Shanny could do no wrong and were negative about McD from the start are still portraying Shanny could do no wrong and are still negative about McD.

Blah, blah, blah, same old baloney. It's nice for argument I guess, but it's also laughable that some posters can't get their nose out of Shanny's ass, and can't get their foot out of McD's ass.

It's like I said a long time ago - firing Shanny was like Daddy taking binker out of an infant's mouth.

jhns
01-25-2010, 02:23 PM
The same posters that thought Shanny could do no wrong and were negative about McD from the start are still portraying Shanny could do no wrong and are still negative about McD.

Blah, blah, blah, same old baloney. It's nice for argument I guess, but it's also laughable that some posters can't get their nose out of Shanny's ass, and can't get their foot out of McD's ass.

It's like I said a long time ago - firing Shanny was like Daddy taking binker out of an infant's mouth.

How dare you guys defend the man that got us 2 SBs while criticizing the guy who has made us the most drama filled franchise in the NFL!

bendog
01-25-2010, 02:38 PM
jmo, but it's possible to think that shanny wasn't going to be able to build a defense, esp with slowick as DC, to challange and still think lil josh is a disaster. I mean it's not like you gotta love one to dislike the other's job performance.

jhns
01-25-2010, 02:44 PM
jmo, but it's possible to think that shanny wasn't going to be able to build a defense, esp with slowick as DC, to challange and still think lil josh is a disaster. I mean it's not like you gotta love one to dislike the other's job performance.

The mane is no place for a rational post. Please delete and come with something more creative.

DenverBrit
01-25-2010, 03:09 PM
In most (successful) businesses, management tries to find a way to keep people who excel at their job. You don't run people off right and left simply because of a personal issue. It's called being a grown up.

What was the personal issue??

broncofan7
01-25-2010, 03:11 PM
NO ****.

It's all on McGenius next year--he had god damn well better deliver a playoff birth.

That seat is FIERY HOT in Denver next season...........

broncofan7
01-25-2010, 03:13 PM
I understand it well. I've also worked at more than one place where 'the boss' was an absolute dumbass, the organization floundered and failed due to constant mismanagement, and anyone with half a brain left ASAP.

This isn't a guy with a track record of success who is cutting dead weight. This is a guy with NO track record cutting, seemingly, anyone and everyone.

BINGO!

another rotten fruit from the Bellicheat coaching tree........

broncocalijohn
01-25-2010, 03:15 PM
Yes, this is not new information to me. It doesn't change my reply. How many times did Shanahan fire a guy after a single season because they couldn't get along?....

Youare such a Shanny homer that you blocked out all the DC we had that got canned after a season or two. Hell, our past DC is now going to the SB with the Colts! How about getting front office guys canned so he can have complete control? Dude, dont be ignorant or a hypocrite.

DenverBrit
01-25-2010, 03:24 PM
Don't waste your breath Brit, mouth-breather's always seem to struggle with the finer points of logic.

That's become painfully obvious around here.

broncofan7
01-25-2010, 03:34 PM
That's become painfully obvious around here.

indeed.
1)2 & 8.
2)20 pt loss at home to KC in a game we had to win
3) regression in yards, pts, explosive plays (but we cut down on INT's right?)
4) alienating our most talented players AND COACHES 2 yrs in a row......

PLAYOFF BIRTH OR BUST homers.

Popps
01-25-2010, 03:53 PM
Youare such a Shanny homer that you blocked out all the DC we had that got canned after a season or two. Hell, our past DC is now going to the SB with the Colts! How about getting front office guys canned so he can have complete control? Dude, dont be ignorant or a hypocrite.

Haha!

Oops.

strafen
01-25-2010, 04:10 PM
indeed.
1)2 & 8.
2)20 pt loss at home to KC in a game we had to win
3) regression in yards, pts, explosive plays (but we cut down on INT's right?)
4) alienating our most talented players AND COACHES 2 yrs in a row......

PLAYOFF BIRTH OR BUST homers.Most teams play their best football in December, we played our worst.

Cito Pelon
01-25-2010, 05:09 PM
Napoleon.

Hitler Napoleon McStalin. Hitler and them other bums are saints in comparison to this guy. Josh is like Hitler on DGH (Dictator Growth Hormone).

The MVPlaya
01-25-2010, 05:11 PM
Most teams play their best football in December, we played our worst.

MOST teams? :spit:

rastaman
01-25-2010, 05:49 PM
He's the CIC...so yeah.

This is becoming clearer. Nolan thought he shouldn't have to listen to a younger boss. You see it with older people all the time. I usually fire them. Good luck getting a new job at 45 with little experience outside of the company you've been working for these last 20 years.

Yep! To bad Corporate Predatory Facism has taken over the American Work Force.

rastaman
01-25-2010, 05:51 PM
MOST teams? :spit:

McD already told his gullible robotic fan base that he guarantees there won't by anymore November-December melt downs as long as he's in charge.:rofl:

rastaman
01-25-2010, 05:53 PM
Mike Nolan has character issues and doesn't fit into McKid's plan.

McD is GOD! He doesn't need qualified vet. assist. coaches. Like any dictator, McD only needs to be surrounded by YES MEN......and his Brother!:thumbs:

Bronco Yoda
01-25-2010, 06:16 PM
It's actually amusing. I am in charge and have a general direction on where I want to take the unit within the business and I get a bunch of "We used to do it this way", or "That won't work", or "I like to do it this way". I ask for suggestions and take them. I am not all knowing, but these long timers want to fight you on ever decision. It's best to send them on their way and then everybody can be happy.

Sounds to me like you still have some learning to do as a supervisor, leader... whatever. JMO.

DenverBrit
01-25-2010, 06:17 PM
indeed.
1)2 & 8.
2)20 pt loss at home to KC in a game we had to win
3) regression in yards, pts, explosive plays (but we cut down on INT's right?)
4) alienating our most talented players AND COACHES 2 yrs in a row......

PLAYOFF BIRTH OR BUST homers.

LOL Pregnant?? Lactating??

Or just an Ass who exaggerates??

Take off your clown shoes and relax!!

DenverBrit
01-25-2010, 06:19 PM
McD is GOD! He doesn't need qualified vet. assist. coaches. Like any dictator, McD only needs to be surrounded by YES MEN......and his Brother!:thumbs:

You've just described Shanny....and a lot of other coaches.

DenverBrit
01-25-2010, 06:20 PM
Most teams play their best football in December, we played our worst.

Yep, just like old times, hopefully, that will change.

jhns
01-25-2010, 06:26 PM
Youare such a Shanny homer that you blocked out all the DC we had that got canned after a season or two. Hell, our past DC is now going to the SB with the Colts! How about getting front office guys canned so he can have complete control? Dude, dont be ignorant or a hypocrite.

The guys fired here were bad under Shanahan. None of them made the defense better before leaving. None of them left because they couldn't get along with the coach.

Anyways, that was Shanahans downfall. There is not a successful team in this league that has a coach that is also the gm. That is especially true when you add in the calling offensive plays. Why would you say I am a hypocrite for not wanting to keep making the same mistake? That is dumb.

Bronco Yoda
01-25-2010, 06:40 PM
IMO, the bottom line is that the entire coaching staff needs to be rowing in the same direction.

McD is not only young but comes off really young...sounds young, looks young, acts young. Nothing wrong with that per say. But it does bring it's own unique challenges. This doesn't exacly help in the respect department when it comes to working with experienced coaching staffs (for many reasons, some already discussed here).

From my observations of Josh and the kind of person he is. He's going to have to 'build' a coaching staff. Not just merely 'assemble' one. This will take longer.

I had really hoped that this wouldn't be necessary. But it's obviously the way things are going to be.

Good Luck Coach McD. Do Good.

Go Broncos.

Florida_Bronco
01-25-2010, 07:26 PM
The guys fired here were bad under Shanahan. None of them made the defense better before leaving. None of them left because they couldn't get along with the coach.

Really? Are you forgetting Jim Bates. He was a very good DC and was fired because he wanted more control of the defense and the resources spent on it.

tsiguy96
01-25-2010, 07:38 PM
whats sad is the vast majority of this forum is pretty supporting of mcdaniels. but between bpc, bf7 (wasnt he not supposed to post for 3 months), dragster and a few select others, it would seem most everyone here hates him. they dont, these few people just continually post trying to ruin the purpose of this message board: football discussion.

as if them coming here to post about how bad mcdaniels is will change what is actually happening in denver or change his job status. there is no mutiny, mcdaniels is not on the hot seat yet, most players seem genuinely supportive of mcdaniels, but that doesnt matter to them. you either absolutely despise everything mcdaniels has done or you are an idiot homer retard koolaid drinker. their whole purpose to come here is to try and take the actual discussion out of the equation and just go to blind hatred by repeating a few talking points (soudns like republican debate eh?)

DBroncos4life
01-25-2010, 07:47 PM
Just like if you don't like Josh McD you are not a true Broncos fan as if somehow he is the Denver Broncos.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-25-2010, 08:14 PM
Kid Mcd doesnt know the meaning of that. he proved it last year in the draft when the Redskins were desperate to trade with denver to take Orakpo. Denver told them not to worry because they werent taking him anyhow.

YEAH! How about some bull**** "inside" information!?!?!?!??!

Nothing like it.

Popps
01-25-2010, 08:22 PM
LOL Pregnant?? Lactating??
!

:rofl:

He can't read, write or spell... but he's a "doctor."

jhns
01-25-2010, 08:27 PM
Really? Are you forgetting Jim Bates. He was a very good DC and was fired because he wanted more control of the defense and the resources spent on it.

Really? Do you care to expand on this theory that Bates improved the defense before being fired?

Dagmar
01-25-2010, 08:29 PM
:rofl:

He can't read, write or spell... but he's a "doctor."

http://rlv.zcache.com/dr_douchebag_binder-p127584892163162738f72cc_400.jpg

Dr.5280
01-25-2010, 09:45 PM
The obvious fact is that five DCs have left this organization in the last five years. The obvious question leads to what causes such instability in the organization.

gyldenlove
01-26-2010, 12:07 PM
Really? Are you forgetting Jim Bates. He was a very good DC and was fired because he wanted more control of the defense and the resources spent on it.

No, he was demoted because the defense sucked so bad it made the Raiders look good. The same fate he has faced in Tampa this year.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-26-2010, 12:12 PM
Most teams play their best football in December, we played our worst.

MOST teams? You must have been watching football for at least 20 minutes or so to come up with such a great statement.

What a dip****.