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View Full Version : If the Colts make the SB, could Orton get the nod for the AFC Pro Bowl?


PaintballCLE
01-21-2010, 09:25 PM
Seriously, the AFC right now has matt Schaub, and Vince Young......as their Qb's. Manning is the starter, but if he makes the SB he can't play. Not that anyone really cares about the probowl, but this place might explode of Orton makes it. Hell Young only played half the season, I think he has a shot.

RhymesayersDU
01-21-2010, 09:27 PM
Jesus, the similarities just keep piling up.

Remember when Jake Plummer made the Pro Bowl as like the 5th alternate?

I keep telling people, we've seen how this movie ends. It's not fun.

Killericon
01-21-2010, 09:28 PM
Jesus, the similarities just keep piling up.

Remember when Jake Plummer made the Pro Bowl as like the 5th alternate?

I keep telling people, we've seen how this movie ends. It's not fun.

13-3 with a trip to the AFC Championship game, to be followed by trading up and getting a strong-armed QB, who would then be traded?

I'm game. Let's do this thing.

Dagmar
01-21-2010, 09:31 PM
13-3 with a trip to the afc championship game, to be followed by trading up and getting a strong-armed qb, who would then be traded?

I'm game. Let's do this thing.

^5 lol

Dagmar
01-21-2010, 09:32 PM
Seriously, the AFC right now has matt Schaub, and Vince Young......as their Qb's. Manning is the starter, but if he makes the SB he can't play. Not that anyone really cares about the probowl, but this place might explode of Orton makes it. Hell Young only played half the season, I think he has a shot.

What kind of shot does he have? I have lost count of who is actually in the PB.

SoCalBronco
01-21-2010, 09:33 PM
No

OBF1
01-21-2010, 09:35 PM
So Jake Plummer is coming back ???

Dagmar
01-21-2010, 09:41 PM
http://i46.tinypic.com/2niwff5.png

Not far off I guess.

TheChamp24
01-21-2010, 10:03 PM
It already is ridiculous Young got in.
Really, the only competition with Orton is Flacco and Garrard, and Flacco may be too hurt to play.

Dagmar
01-21-2010, 10:08 PM
It already is ridiculous Young got in.
Really, the only competition with Orton is Flacco and Garrard, and Flacco may be too hurt to play.

Flacco was gimping for 2 weeks, no way they let him play!

Dagmar
01-21-2010, 10:09 PM
Honestly, the thing is and Florio pointed this out when Young got in, when people look back in a few years there won't be asterisks next to these guys names, it will say ProBowl.

If it were to happen I would be very happy, I am happy if any of our boys get in.

Dagmar
01-21-2010, 10:10 PM
No

Can we ask why?

Hercules Rockefeller
01-21-2010, 10:11 PM
DJ was the only alternate

Dagmar
01-21-2010, 10:23 PM
DJ was the only alternate

But there are no alternate QBs left, with Rivers and Brady injured and when Manning beats the Jets, they need another.

extralife
01-21-2010, 10:29 PM
I think we need to abolish the practice of saying dudes are pro bowlers if they get in because sixth other dudes bowed out. You are a pro bowler if you were voted in by official methods. If you get in otherwise, have fun playing, but that **** should <i>not</i> go on your resume.

What about Palmer? He'd get in over Orton. Flacco too, and maybe Gerrard.

PaintballCLE
01-21-2010, 10:37 PM
i dont know this for sure, but I am assuming flacco and or palmer said no which is why they got to young.

Meck77
01-21-2010, 10:40 PM
As the average years pass by I think even the "Tacos" of the mane will realize how much they miss the Jake Plummer playoff era.
It really sucked making the playoffs year after year.

SouthStndJunkie
01-21-2010, 10:51 PM
As the average years pass by I think even the "Tacos" of the mane will realize how much they miss the Jake Plummer playoff era.
It really sucked making the playoffs year after year.

I liked Jake....but I don't think he would have reacted well to Josh getting in his grill, screaming: "Do your job!" and "Don't give me 'my bad'....make the ****ing play!"

Br0nc0Buster
01-21-2010, 10:51 PM
Orton should make it regardless, I dont think he has pounded any Florida vag yet

SouthStndJunkie
01-21-2010, 10:53 PM
I would much rather have Jake Plummer circa 2003-2005 than Kyle Orton as the QB of my team.

SoCalBronco
01-21-2010, 10:54 PM
Can we ask why?

Because I don't think he'd be the most deserving of the potential alternates.

BTW, props for changing your username back to Dagmar. I liked Dagmar alot more than I liked Rusty. :thumbsup:

Dagmar
01-21-2010, 10:57 PM
Because I don't think he'd be the most deserving of the potential alternates.

BTW, props for changing your username back to Dagmar. I liked Dagmar alot more than I liked Rusty. :thumbsup:

Fair enough, but neither is Vince Young.

Rusty turned me evil on here. I blame Dale Gribble. I feel calmer as Dagmar.

SoCalBronco
01-21-2010, 10:58 PM
Orton should make it regardless, I dont think he has pounded any Florida vag yet

That's actually the first legitimate reason I've heard for KingNeckBeard to be in the Pro Bowl in Miami. :thumbs:

SouthStndJunkie
01-21-2010, 11:06 PM
Orton should make it regardless, I dont think he has pounded any Florida vag yet

Spring Break 2002.

Popps
01-21-2010, 11:07 PM
Honestly, the thing is and Florio pointed this out when Young got in, when people look back in a few years there won't be asterisks next to these guys names, it will say ProBowl.

If it were to happen I would be very happy, I am happy if any of our boys get in.

I think it would be fantastic if he was able to sneak in. He probably didn't have a Pro Bowl season, but he played extremely well through a TON of controversy and really a lot of undue pressure.

All he did was come in and play well, won some games and put up respectable numbers. He did everything we asked him to do. He showed nice leadership and remained classy through the whole turbulent season.

He may not be our savior at QB, but I like the kid... and I love to see any of my Bronco land Pro Bowl honors.

TheChamp24
01-21-2010, 11:21 PM
I think we need to abolish the practice of saying dudes are pro bowlers if they get in because sixth other dudes bowed out. You are a pro bowler if you were voted in by official methods. If you get in otherwise, have fun playing, but that **** should <i>not</i> go on your resume.

What about Palmer? He'd get in over Orton. Flacco too, and maybe Gerrard.

Thats why Vince Young getting in this year is such a joke due to nearly every AFC QB bailing out.
To start, we had:
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Phillip Rivers
Great QB's there. However, 2 of them are out with injuries. Ben Roethlisberger declined due to injury, and the same with Carson Palmer. In step Schaub and Young. Now, if the Colts make the Super Bowl, Peyton needs to be replaced. Flacco? I don't see how he could play, and why the Ravens would let him actually as well. Basically brings it down to 2 players, either Kyle Orton or David Garrard.
So, the top 10 AFC QB's in the 2009 NFL Season by QB rating:
Phillip Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Matt Schaub
Tom Brady
Joe Flacco
Kyle Orton
Carson Palmer
David Garrard
Vince Young

Bold are the ones going as far as we know, assuming Colts win. Underlined and italics are voted in originally, but injured. Italics are injured and declined.
With that said, out of the top 10 QB's, only 1 will not have gotten an invite/nod most likely if the Colts win. 6 QB's having to opt out is incredible lol.

Pick Six
01-22-2010, 12:22 AM
Basically brings it down to 2 players, either Kyle Orton or David Garrard.

I think even Orton's HARSHEST critics will put Orton in over Garrard...Ha!

bpc
01-22-2010, 12:55 AM
Fair enough, but neither is Vince Young.

Rusty turned me evil on here. I blame Dale Gribble. I feel calmer as Dagmar.

I'm gonna miss Rusty Trombone. LOL.

That's terrible but it had to be said.

bendog
01-22-2010, 09:02 AM
it's been posted, but what the hell. and what a joke.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/seasontype/2/league/afc

kamakazi_kal
01-22-2010, 09:50 AM
Seriously, the AFC right now has matt Schaub, and Vince Young......as their Qb's. Manning is the starter, but if he makes the SB he can't play. Not that anyone really cares about the probowl, but this place might explode of Orton makes it. Hell Young only played half the season, I think he has a shot.

ha ha ha I hope the probowl coach asks him to throw deep to a "speed" WR

bendog
01-22-2010, 09:58 AM
On strategy during draft

"I think we were aggressive, if you want to use that term. We didn't have that many players on our board once we were done with the evaluation, and that was the goal. ‘Let's get the players on the board that we want on our team. Let's not have 200 names up there if we don't want 200 guys on our roster.' So, we had a board that was thinned out. (General Manager) Brian (Xanders), and the scouts and the coaches did a great job evaluating the players they had in their areas. And, by the end of the process, our board was thin. We knew we wanted to come away with players on our board and we did, we didn't go to the back board for anybody. At some certain points in the draft, I think you ask yourself ‘If we wait, is he going to be there?' And there were a few times where we felt like there's no way. If we wait, we're not going to be able to attain a player that we'd like to get. We weighed the value of what we were trading to try to go ahead and get the players that we were looking to get. And we have a totally full draft next year, one through seven. So, we didn't give away any rounds next year. We had a couple extra (this year) and we used those to move and get the players in this year's draft."

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/4/26/855125/josh-mcdaniels-discusses-day-2-of

UberBroncoMan
01-22-2010, 10:19 AM
Vince Young making it is a ****ing joke, just like it was last time.

Meh, people love a feel good story.

Hamrob
01-22-2010, 11:45 AM
Schaub
Young
Orton

My how the mighty have fallen!

WolfpackGuy
01-22-2010, 12:43 PM
That would relegate the Pro Bowl to even lesser status than it has now.

It's already been moved from Hawaii and to the week before the Super Bowl.

You let Orton in and you might as well cancel it.

But, at least the Orton fans would finally see it's not the OFFENSIVE LINE'S fault.

Bronco LB52
01-22-2010, 01:40 PM
i dont know this for sure, but I am assuming flacco and or palmer said no which is why they got to young.

Roethlisberger turned down an invite. So did Palmer. I haven't heard anything about Flacco though.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_663259.html

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2010/1/22/1264897/carson-palmer-has-to-decline-a-pro

PaintballCLE
01-22-2010, 09:39 PM
Hope they dont go with Henne to try to pick up some of the local miami fans.........only player they had was Jake Long....... and hes not playing injured.

azbroncfan
01-22-2010, 10:22 PM
I wonder if the Butler's who used the excuse for Cutler about him being a probowl QB will treat Orton the same for being a ProBowl QB.

strafen
01-22-2010, 10:24 PM
Seriously, the AFC right now has matt Schaub, and Vince Young......as their Qb's. Manning is the starter, but if he makes the SB he can't play. Not that anyone really cares about the probowl, but this place might explode of Orton makes it. Hell Young only played half the season, I think he has a shot.

Yeah, so we can brag about having a probowl QB :wiggle:

TheReverend
01-22-2010, 10:29 PM
I wonder if the Butler's who used the excuse for Cutler about him being a probowl QB will treat Orton the same for being a ProBowl QB.

Because there's an outside chance that he might sneak in due to 5-6 QBs declining due to injury or superbowl?

Doesn't quite bring the same esteem...

HAT
01-22-2010, 10:49 PM
Because there's an outside chance that he might sneak in due to 5-6 QBs declining due to injury or superbowl?

Doesn't quite bring the same esteem...

Statistically:

Jay Cutler's 2008 season with the Broncos = Kyle Orton's 2009 season with the Broncos.

Kyle Orton's 2008 season with the Bears = Jay Cutler's 2009 season with the Bears.

They're pretty much interchangeable.

extralife
01-22-2010, 11:01 PM
I suppose they are interchangeable if you are stupid, yes.

TheReverend
01-23-2010, 12:04 AM
Statistically:

Jay Cutler's 2008 season with the Broncos = Kyle Orton's 2009 season with the Broncos.

Kyle Orton's 2008 season with the Bears = Jay Cutler's 2009 season with the Bears.

They're pretty much interchangeable.

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion, but it sure will be fun to see the train of though explained...

DrFate
01-23-2010, 08:32 AM
I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion, but it sure will be fun to see the train of though explained...

He had a whole thread about this a while back. Pick the numbers that support your argument, ignore the rest. Typical orange-and-blue colored glasses stuff.

Hogan11
01-23-2010, 09:36 AM
That would relegate the Pro Bowl to even lesser status than it has now.

It's already been moved from Hawaii and to the week before the Super Bowl.

You let Orton in and you might as well cancel it.

But, at least the Orton fans would finally see it's not the OFFENSIVE LINE'S fault.

This.

I probably won't even tune in for it....I mean really, what for?

broncosteven
01-23-2010, 10:58 AM
As the average years pass by I think even the "Tacos" of the mane will realize how much they miss the Jake Plummer playoff era.
It really sucked making the playoffs year after year.

Nope, what sucked was getting beat down 10 - 41, 24 - 49, and losing at home to the Steelers 17 -34. Out of 3 years we did get one playoff win, wooo hoooo.....Ummm yeah?

TDmvp
01-23-2010, 11:01 AM
As the average years pass by I think even the "Tacos" of the mane will realize how much they miss the Jake Plummer playoff era.
It really sucked making the playoffs year after year.

I loved Jake but pretty sure we only made the playoff once with him. 2005 ...
Year after year would be plural.

HAT
01-23-2010, 11:18 AM
He had a whole thread about this a while back. Pick the numbers that support your argument, ignore the rest. Typical orange-and-blue colored glasses stuff.

Care to explain which numbers that QB's get judged on that I ignored?



Jay Cutler last year with the Broncos:

QBR: 86.8
Y/C: 11.8
Y/A: 7.3
%: 62,3
TD: 25
INT: 18
Team record: 8-8

Kyle Orton this year with the Broncos:

QBR: 86.0
Y/C: 11.3
Y/A: 7.0
%: 62.1
TD: 21
INT: 12
Team record: 8-8

Let's look at that in reverse also....

'08 Orton with the Bears:

QBR: 79.6
Y/C: 10.9
Y/A: 6.4
%: 58.5
TD: 18
INT: 12
Team record: 9-7

'09 Cutler with the Bears:
QBR: 76.8
Y/C: 10.9
Y/A: 6.6
%: 60.5
TD: 27
INT: 26
Team record: 7-9

HAT
01-23-2010, 11:19 AM
PS....Orton making the pro bowl would be a joke.

bendog
01-23-2010, 02:35 PM
about 50 yds per game difference or about 600 on the year. Also 8 qbs had more yds than neck beard in 09 (including Lambchop), and only 2 had more than lambchop in 08.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2009/passing.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2008/passing.htm

And yeah Bart Starr and Bob Griese had realitively less yds, but they were on winning teams.

Inkana7
01-23-2010, 02:53 PM
I loved Jake but pretty sure we only made the playoff once with him. 2005 ...
Year after year would be plural.

Um...Dude. We went to the playoffs every year except 2006 with Jake. 2003, 2004, 2005.

HAT
01-23-2010, 03:13 PM
about 50 yds per game difference or about 600 on the year. Also 8 qbs had more yds than neck beard in 09 (including Lambchop), and only 2 had more than lambchop in 08.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2009/passing.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2008/passing.htm

And yeah Bart Starr and Bob Griese had realitively less yds, but they were on winning teams.


Yards are irrelevant when comparing the two.

Cutler 2008 attempts with the Broncos: 616
Orton 2009 attempts with the Broncos: 541

Add 75 more attempts for Orton using his season averages for completion % and yards per completion...

75 x 62% = 46.5
46.5 x 11.3 Y/C = 525
525 + 3,802 = 4,327


Add 75 more attempts for Orton using his season averages for TD/attempt & INT/attempt....

TD/A = .0625 x 75 = 4.68
INT/A = .0357 x 75 = 2.67

Let's round down to an extra 4 Td's & 2 INT's

Bottom line....Using Orton's 2009 averages and giving him 75 more attempts to match Jay's attempts in 2008 and you get roughly:

4,300 yards
25 TD's
14 INT's

Sound familiar?

Hamrob
01-23-2010, 03:47 PM
Yards are irrelevant when comparing the two.

Cutler 2008 attempts with the Broncos: 616
Orton 2009 attempts with the Broncos: 541

Add 75 more attempts for Orton using his season averages for completion % and yards per completion...

75 x 62% = 46.5
46.5 x 11.3 Y/C = 525
525 + 3,802 = 4,327


Add 75 more attempts for Orton using his season averages for TD/attempt & INT/attempt....

TD/A = .0625 x 75 = 4.68
INT/A = .0357 x 75 = 2.67

Let's round down to an extra 4 Td's & 2 INT's

Bottom line....Using Orton's 2009 averages and giving him 75 more attempts to match Jay's attempts in 2008 and you get roughly:

4,300 yards
25 TD's
14 INT's

Sound familiar?I'm not sure I follow the 11.3 y/c number. Orton threw for 7yds a completion on average. Sure, Orton can complete 7yd passes at a high rate with very few errors. We all appreciate that. The thing with Orton is, where is he when you have to have a play. Where is he on 3rd downs? If he can start to make more plays himself...where there not expected (that's what great ones do) and if he can start to stretch the field, so that teams don't play 8men in the box....then, I think everyone would be fine with Orton.

Cutler was developing...and he had the tools that teams drool over. Yes, Orton is developing to (maybe), but his tools are less impressive. He's a mouth breather for gosh sakes!

WolfpackGuy
01-23-2010, 03:59 PM
The thing with Orton is, where is he when you have to have a play.

In the fetal position after tripping over his own feet.

Dagmar
01-23-2010, 03:59 PM
Why are some people so ANGRY by this possibility?

Popps
01-23-2010, 04:05 PM
Why are some people so ANGRY by this possibility?

That's what I can't figure out.

With full knowledge that Orton is what he is, I'd still love to see the guy get some recognition for a nice season. He's a loyal, hard working Bronco... why wouldn't I want to see something positive happen for him?

I think the anger over something positive like this (which is highly improbable) just shows the mindset of some of these fence-fans. They sort of like the team on their own terms... when things are perfect.

NFLBRONCO
01-23-2010, 04:21 PM
That's what I can't figure out.

With full knowledge that Orton is what he is, I'd still love to see the guy get some recognition for a nice season. He's a loyal, hard working Bronco... why wouldn't I want to see something positive happen for him?

I think the anger over something positive like this (which is highly improbable) just shows the mindset of some of these fence-fans. They sort of like the team on their own terms... when things are perfect.

I think its because most understand Orton isn't a longterm answer for us and a probowl invite will up price on contract this offseason.

HAT
01-23-2010, 04:22 PM
I'm not sure I follow the 11.3 y/c number. Orton threw for 7yds a completion on average. Sure, Orton can complete 7yd passes at a high rate with very few errors. We all appreciate that. The thing with Orton is, where is he when you have to have a play. Where is he on 3rd downs?

Again, I'm not saying Orton is the end all be all....Just that he and Jay are pretty much interchangeable statistically (to date).


3,802 yards/336 completions = 11.3 y/c

As for 3rd downs....

Orton 2009 on 3rd down:
86.9 QBR
55%
933 yards, 84 completions, 153 attempts
11.1 y/c
10 TD
3 INT

Cutler 2008 on 3rd down:
72.3 QBR
60%
1069 yards, 86 completions, 143 attempts
12.4 y/c
9 TD
11 INT

So yeah...Jay was slightly more accurate and averaged about 4 feet more per completion on 3rd down.

Which do you think killed more drives....Orton's being slightly less acurrate or Cutler's 11 INT's?

Hamrob
01-23-2010, 04:58 PM
Again, I'm not saying Orton is the end all be all....Just that he and Jay are pretty much interchangeable statistically (to date).


3,802 yards/336 completions = 11.3 y/c

As for 3rd downs....

Orton 2009 on 3rd down:
86.9 QBR
55%
933 yards, 84 completions, 153 attempts
11.1 y/c
10 TD
3 INT

Cutler 2008 on 3rd down:
72.3 QBR
60%
1069 yards, 86 completions, 143 attempts
12.4 y/c
9 TD
11 INT

So yeah...Jay was slightly more accurate and averaged about 4 feet more per completion on 3rd down.

Which do you think killed more drives....Orton's being slightly less acurrate or Cutler's 11 INT's?I'm certainly not angry and I'm really not an Orton hater either. I wish him success every week. To me, he just doesn't make the plays when he needs to for defenses to fear us. In terms of your 3rd down stats. Where did you get them. I followed your links but I didn't see the 3rd down stats?

Hamrob
01-23-2010, 05:01 PM
That's what I can't figure out.

With full knowledge that Orton is what he is, I'd still love to see the guy get some recognition for a nice season. He's a loyal, hard working Bronco... why wouldn't I want to see something positive happen for him?

I think the anger over something positive like this (which is highly improbable) just shows the mindset of some of these fence-fans. They sort of like the team on their own terms... when things are perfect.Who are you to call other posters "fence-fans"? I'm sure you've gone with the flow your entire life...it's alot easier that way...heh popps?

HAT
01-23-2010, 05:10 PM
I'm certainly not angry and I'm really not an Orton hater either. I wish him success every week. To me, he just doesn't make the plays when he needs to for defenses to fear us. In terms of your 3rd down stats. Where did you get them. I followed your links but I didn't see the 3rd down stats?

Right on.

Situational stats:

KO
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7282/situational;_ylt=AmR8KfcAalkXgZjaBiDyA9r.uLYF

JC
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7760/situational;_ylt=AmR8KfcAalkXgZjaBiDyA9r.uLYF?year =2008

The Moops
01-23-2010, 05:21 PM
Who cares if Orton makes the Pro Bowl . . . being an alternate means very little. Most stars don't even want to play, they just want to be named. I remember Mike Boryla (I think he played high school ball in Colorado), a mediocre Eagles QB in the mid 70s may have been MVP of the Pro Bowl one year after 3 or 4 guys bowed out . . .

Hamrob
01-23-2010, 06:18 PM
Right on.

Situational stats:

KO
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7282/situational;_ylt=AmR8KfcAalkXgZjaBiDyA9r.uLYF

JC
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7760/situational;_ylt=AmR8KfcAalkXgZjaBiDyA9r.uLYF?year =2008Interesting. You can tell (for whatever reason) they don't like him going to the middle of the field. Yes, his rating is good on 3rd down....meaning he has a high percentage of completions...but what it doesn't show is whether he moves the chains.

In other words, if you got 3rd and 6 and you complete a five yard screen and then punt the ball...you're not accomplishing your mission.

Bronco LB52
01-24-2010, 01:56 AM
According to this article, David Garrard is next in line if Peyton Manning can't play.

http://jacksonville.com/interact/blog/david_johnson/2010-01-24/t_u_2_nfl_should_change_pro_bowl_or_drop_it

If the Colts advance to the Super Bowl, Peyton Manning will have to skip the Pro Bowl. Jaguars quarterback David Garrard is reportedly the next alternate.