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View Full Version : Since PFT is the end all/be all of sources for some, McD mandated Nolan blitz less..


bpc
01-20-2010, 11:03 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/20/report-mcdaniels-told-nolan-there-would-be-less-blitzing/

As folks in Denver try to figure out why Mike Nolan is no longer the team's defensive coordinator, Ron Borges of the Boston Herald reports that the divorce was caused not by Bill Parcells sniffing around for someone to run Miami's defense, but by Broncos coach Josh McDaniels trying to tell Nolan how to do his job.

Per Borges, McDaniels told Nolan "in no uncertain terms" that the Broncos would be blitzing less frequently in 2010 than they did in 2009.

And so the two men decided to part ways.

A cynic might think that McDaniels simply wanted to hire former Patriots defensive coordinator Dean Pees(of course, they need more of those!), and that Pees possibly was motivated to add to the coaching staff a guy with NFL head-coaching experience, who could be a viable candidate to take over the Broncos on an interim basis if the 2-8 momentum to end McDaniels' first season continues into his second.

Keep leading us to the promise land McD, running off good players and coaches alike.

Rulon Velvet Jones
01-20-2010, 11:05 AM
Dude, you're so far behind on this.

But thanks for starting ANOTHER ****ing thread.

TheDave
01-20-2010, 11:05 AM
http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=88747

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-20-2010, 11:06 AM
Borges has been shown to be wrong a LOT on this.

Per Schefter: Hearing Broncos-Mike Nolan breakup had nothing to do with blitzing more or less. Nolan had another option, so did McDaniels. Each moved on.

per Lombardi: Despite what you've read, the blitz package had nothing to do with McD-Nolan divorce. Just two different coaching styles.

TheDave
01-20-2010, 11:06 AM
http://twitter.com/VicLombardi

Despite what you've read, the blitz package had nothing to do with McD-Nolan divorce. Just two different coaching styles.

OBF1
01-20-2010, 11:08 AM
In related new.... bpc still has wood for shanny and cutler.

Dagmar
01-20-2010, 11:09 AM
http://skepacabra.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/epic-fail-2.jpg

bpc
01-20-2010, 11:09 AM
I prefer the solid PFT source some people around here choose. ha ha.

The Joker
01-20-2010, 11:09 AM
What's particularly awesome is that bpc has actually posted in the other thread about this exact same thing!

I'll take Schefter's word, he's pretty much the Chuck Norris of NFL reporting.

PRBronco
01-20-2010, 11:09 AM
Yeah man, that article was drivel. I can't believe pft even bothered with it.

Requiem
01-20-2010, 11:10 AM
The Broncos blitzes brought mixed results this past year. Sometimes we got there, other times we didn't and the times we failed hurt us terribly, with middle of the field was opened up for receivers and the like to make big gains and big time plays. If the coaching philosophies of the two didn't match, it was best to part ways. I'm glad Nolan ended up with the Dolphins, who have Porter and Taylor ready to be aggressive and rush off the edge for him. I also expect the Dolphins to key in on another linebacker with the arrival of Nolan there.

The implications of Nolan's departure could resonate through our draft. I think the selection of McClain was highly indicative of Nolan's desire to have athletic guys on the inside. With him gone, I'm not sure where our defensive focus may lie when it comes to the draft. Hopefully getting bigger players up front at some point in time.

Heck, whether or not the "blitz" talk led to the "divorce" remains to be seen. Probably untrue. Someone here had reported that Nolan was interested in other jobs even upon accepting Denver's offer. Nolan is in a better position to incorporate his philosophy with the Dolphins now than he would have been here another year. JMHO.

BigPlayShay
01-20-2010, 11:11 AM
Funny, guess who is the only Denver area reporter to retweet PFT unlinke Lombardi and Schefter? That's right, Mrs. Journalism herself, aptly named Man Mattress by PRBronco, Josina Anderson.

BPC and Josina have the same agenda.

bowtown
01-20-2010, 11:13 AM
Funny, guess who is the only Denver area reporter to retweet PFT unlinke Lombardi and Schefter? That's right, Mrs. Journalism herself, aptly named Man Mattress by PRBronco, Josina Anderson.

BPC and Josina have the same agenda.

I'm beginning to think they have similar anatomy as well.

bpc
01-20-2010, 11:14 AM
That's right. My sole focus now is to dig out that little tic McDaniels who has infected my franchise.

I was willing to give him his three years before the whole Nolan incident. Now he just needs to get the **** out.

Ultimately his fate will be decided by FA and the draft, so I'm pretty sure his next wave of Patriot backups and his draft board of 30 players will assist him in offing himself after this next year.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-20-2010, 11:16 AM
That's right. My sole focus now is to dig out that little tic McDaniels who has infected my franchise.

I was willing to give him his three years before the whole Nolan incident. Now he just needs to get the **** out.

Ultimately his fate will be decided by FA and the draft, so I'm pretty sure his next wave of Patriot backups and his draft board of 30 players will assist him in offing himself after this next year.

It's YOUR franchise? Holy ****, Pat Bowlen DOES post here!


Hilarious!

bpc
01-20-2010, 11:19 AM
Damn right. I take ownership of my sports team. And when **** is not going right, it's time to make a change.

Soon enough.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/mr%20burns" target="_blank"><img src="http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk219/sloaney_bucket/mr-burns.jpg" border="0" alt="Mr Burns Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

The Joker
01-20-2010, 11:26 AM
This is the last thing we needed in fairness.

BPC is actually somewhat intelligent, he's the leader that mock, BF7, rasta and the rest of the hysterics have been crying out for.

Forum's gonna get messy this offseason.

Flex Gunmetal
01-20-2010, 11:29 AM
That's right. My sole focus now is to dig out that little tic McDaniels who has infected my franchise.

I was willing to give him his three years before the whole Nolan incident. Now he just needs to get the **** out.

Ultimately his fate will be decided by FA and the draft, so I'm pretty sure his next wave of Patriot backups and his draft board of 30 players will assist him in offing himself after this next year.

Delusions of grandeur?

bpc
01-20-2010, 11:36 AM
My reaction to when Nolan got forced out, the latest in a long line of F' ups over just one short year by McD:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tim5nU3DwIE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tim5nU3DwIE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Flex Gunmetal
01-20-2010, 11:37 AM
Too bad nolan didn't get fired, huh?

BroncoBuff
01-20-2010, 11:40 AM
A cynic might think that McDaniels simply wanted to hire former Patriots defensive coordinator Dean Pees(of course, they need more of those!).

Nope. Josh initially denied Nolan permission to talk to the Dolphins, and that was AFTER Pees became available. Had he really wanted Pees, there would be no reason to block Nolan.

BroncoBuff
01-20-2010, 11:45 AM
so I'm pretty sure his next wave of Patriot backups and his draft board of 30 players will assist him in offing himself after this next year.

I disagree with you here ... I think the free agent class was excellent.

And the draft class looks bad only when compared to Jim Goodman's three that preceded it. If you compare Josh's '09 draft class around the league, it's probably somewhere right in the middle. Although I suppose seeing that we had 3 of the first 37 picks, we probably should've seen a bit more this year.

Killericon
01-20-2010, 11:51 AM
I disagree with you here ... I think the free agent class was excellent.

And the draft class looks bad only when compared to Jim Goodman's three that preceded it. If you compare Josh's '09 draft class around the league, it's probably somewhere right in the middle. Although I suppose seeing that we had 3 of the first 37 picks, we probably should've seen a bit more this year.

Yeah, I want to get Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, Ryan Harris and Marcus Thomas EVERY YEAR.

Also, it's not at all surprising that BPC loves PFT...Both 3 letter acronyms that hate the Denver Broncos.

Archer81
01-20-2010, 11:53 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-oWWbAqSHcE&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-oWWbAqSHcE&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
01-20-2010, 12:22 PM
Yeah, I want to get Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, Ryan Harris and Marcus Thomas EVERY YEAR.

I've come to the point where I believe the worst, most unreasonable and insufferable posters/fans are those revisionist-historians that deny the brilliance of Jim Goodman's drafts. It's just not possible to do so.

Those four draftees you mentioned there? THREE of them are rock-solid, average to above-average NFL contributors. So if that's the best you can do to discredit him, you should probably re-think your evaluation of his work. Let me help you re-think: Of the 21 players Goodman drafted 4, 3 and 2 years ago .... ONLY 2 ARE OUT OF THE LEAGUE! (Eslinger and Torain, and Torain succombed to a physical weakness Goodman/Shanny knew existed but took a chance on anyway).

If they kept records for this stuff, I have little doubt Goodman's three seasons would be among the very best three season runs, at least since the post-merger combined draft.



Also, it's not at all surprising that BPC loves PFT...Both 3 letter acronyms that hate the Denver Broncos.

LOL ... I can appreciate the humor there.

bpc, what say you?

Requiem
01-20-2010, 12:50 PM
The quality of the players drafted should be considered as well under Goodman's tenure, not just the fact that a certain amount of players are still in the league. I'd be willing to bet that most teams who drafted over the past three years still have many of their picks still playing ball, if not with them, elsewhere. It'd be an interesting study, one that I do not have the time for at the moment. The only reason you say you have little doubt is just to try and reinforce the strength of your argument without actually going and documenting it.

At any case, we are still under the basic time span that players who are drafted spend in the league. The Goodman's were able to draft some pretty good players, but a lot of the guys left in the league are hardly anything to get too excited about. Plus, the development of the players (especially the good ones) over time cannot be attributed to Goodman, only the fact that he had a hand in scouting them.

I guess we could do a little spirited break down before I get off work here. Here are my thoughts. (I'll leave off my thoughts regarding the value of trades, i.e. moving up to get Moss, etc. off their respective grade designations.)

Sub-par Players / Journeymen

Lichtensteiger, Williams, Torain, Powell, Moss, Crowder, Thomas and Eslinger made little impacts where they were at or aren't doing much of anything at all.

Starting Material / Quality Role Players

Hillis, Barrett, Larsen, Hixon -- I think this is a fair assessment of their abilities and performance so far in their young careers. To say that they are established weapons would be stretching the truth.

Quality Players

Chris Kuper and Eddie Royal -- Two very good players for our team who have contributed in each year in some form. Nice finds.

Elite Players

Ryan Clady, Brandon Marshall and Elvis Dumervil (3-4 OLB) -- I give them the "elite" tag since they are Pro-Bowlers, and some of the last drafted players we've had to even earn that honor. Goodman did a great job of scouting Marshall and realizing his talents, as well as understanding Dumervil's value as a pass rusher in the NFL.

Overall, I see a lot of busts (which is the norm) with some decent players, solid starters and a few elites. To say the least, Buff -- I've seen a lot of teams with this sort of success ratio, but I understand your thoughts and appreciate the way you approach them.

Sorry if this seemed scatterbrained. I got a two hour break before I close at work and am stoked to go smoke a cig. Peace braskhis.

Natedog24
01-20-2010, 01:06 PM
Goodman's drafting skills are often exaggerated around here, but its easy to look very fondly on his classes when compared to the only class we have seen under the McDaniels/Xanders regime. Here's hoping McXanders does a better job of making people forget about Goodman/Shanny in year 2....

BroncoBuff
01-20-2010, 01:20 PM
The only reason you say you have "little doubt" is just to try and reinforce the strength of your argument without actually going and documenting it.
LOL ... very good, you got me there!! .... (I do that a lot actually ::))


Still think I'm right, though ... I haven't done "all" the research, okay, but I have looked at teams' yearly draft boards, at our yearly draft boards, and most draft classes lose two or more players within one year (e.g. Blake Schleuter), whereas with Goodman, there's just two players gone TOTAL, in FOUR years.

You maker good points, but you're missing a baseline. We both are. Goodman's drafts - nobody's drafts for that matter - exist in a vacuum. You have to have a static baseline to compare them to to determine whether they're good or bad. For example, do you know how very few drafted players make it into a third year in the league? Or even a second? I'm not sure myself (;D), but 6 out of 7 players from his 2006 draft are about to make it into Year FIVE. I just don't think that happens ... I'd be interested to hear otherwise, but I just don't think there are many if any such examples.

And I disagree that Crowder and Thomas are "Sub-par." Marcus Thomas has played a ton for us in his three years, even this year - his first ever 3-4 experience. And Crowder was 2nd on our team in sacks as a rookie ... plus he had 43 tackles, 3.5 sacks and started 4 or 5 games for Tampa this year. He's not a 3-4 guy, sure, but he and Thomas both fit your "Quality Role Player" tier.

I disagree JMFW is "sub par." Five teams made claims the day he was waived. Imo, "sub par" players generally would probably clear waivers, then get signed to a practice squad maybe. But that's just semantics.

You forgot Ryan Harris, he's a "Quality Player" with Kuper and Royal, and you forgot Jay Cutler, who should be "Starting Material" at least.

BroncoBuff
01-20-2010, 01:21 PM
Okay Req ... I WILL DO THE RESEARCH!


You should help to keep it fair: Throw me 5 teams, and I'll compare the '06, '07 and '08 years.

bpc
01-20-2010, 01:22 PM
I've come to the point where I believe the worst, most unreasonable and insufferable posters/fans are those revisionist-historians that deny the brilliance of Jim Goodman's drafts. It's just not possible to do so.

Those four draftees you mentioned there? THREE of them are rock-solid, average to above-average NFL contributors. So if that's the best you can do to discredit him, you should probably re-think your evaluation of his work. Let me help you re-think: Of the 21 players Goodman drafted 4, 3 and 2 years ago .... ONLY 2 ARE OUT OF THE LEAGUE! (Eslinger and Torain, and Torain succombed to a physical weakness Goodman/Shanny knew existed but took a chance on anyway).

If they kept records for this stuff, I have little doubt Goodman's three seasons would be among the very best three season runs, at least since the post-merger combined draft.





LOL ... I can appreciate the humor there.

bpc, what say you?

Well, he's insisting I hate the Broncos, so as usually, KillerIcon makes himself look like a total fool. Nothing new here though.

The whole PFT thread was to show others who absolutely stupid it is to post that conjecture as a newsworthy source, yet posters kept using it trying to validate that McDaniels isn't an idiot.

It will come to light soon enough. Everything depends on this offseason. If all the FA's are soaked up like many expect, and we can't land some impact additions for the numerous holes on this roster, we're going to be in trouble next year.

WolfpackGuy
01-20-2010, 01:24 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/football/story/1433901.html

"Last week, the Dolphins contacted the Broncos about interviewing Nolan because there was a widespread understanding in league circles that Nolan's working relationship with Broncos coach Josh McDaniels had soured as a result of philosophical differences."

Phins fans are happy with the move judging from comments.

Killericon
01-20-2010, 01:44 PM
I've come to the point where I believe the worst, most unreasonable and insufferable posters/fans are those revisionist-historians that deny the brilliance of Jim Goodman's drafts. It's just not possible to do so.

Those four draftees you mentioned there? THREE of them are rock-solid, average to above-average NFL contributors. So if that's the best you can do to discredit him, you should probably re-think your evaluation of his work. Let me help you re-think: Of the 21 players Goodman drafted 4, 3 and 2 years ago .... ONLY 2 ARE OUT OF THE LEAGUE! (Eslinger and Torain, and Torain succombed to a physical weakness Goodman/Shanny knew existed but took a chance on anyway).

If they kept records for this stuff, I have little doubt Goodman's three seasons would be among the very best three season runs, at least since the post-merger combined draft.





LOL ... I can appreciate the humor there.

bpc, what say you?

Hey, I was all about Goodman while he was here, and I wish that we kept them around. TO be honest, I never grieved his loss because at the time, I was still shellshocked over Shanahan. Goodman was fantastic.

But let's not kid ourselves. Ryan Harris was an awesome pick. Marcus Thomas was a good pick(Remember what he cost us). Crowder and Moss were crappy. I have to assume that you meant that Moss is a "rock-solid, average to above-average NFL contributor" since you said 3 of 4, and you certainly didn't mean Crowder(He's average AT BEST in Tampa).

BB, you're one of my favourite posters around here(even if we find ourselves on opposite sides of this epic battle), but when the hell did Jarvis Moss turn into a "rock-solid, average to above-average NFL contributor"?!?!? That draft SUCKED.

Anyways, if I gave the impression that I dislike the Goodmans or their work, I wish to clarfiy; I don't.

Just because I like the guys we have now doesn't mean that I don't like what we had before. I don't blame McDaniels for Shanahan getting fired. I don't blame Xanders for the Goodmans' departure. I blame Bowlen for those things, and I don't hold them against the current regime. I was/is Pro-Shanahan, and now I'm Pro-McDaniels.

Well, he's insisting I hate the Broncos, so as usually, KillerIcon makes himself look like a total fool. Nothing new here though.

The whole PFT thread was to show others who absolutely stupid it is to post that conjecture as a newsworthy source, yet posters kept using it trying to validate that McDaniels isn't an idiot.

It will come to light soon enough. Everything depends on this offseason. If all the FA's are soaked up like many expect, and we can't land some impact additions for the numerous holes on this roster, we're going to be in trouble next year.

Notice, folks, how he DOESN'T DENY THE 3 LETTER ACRONYM CONNECTION!

(I was kidding, man)

Also, if you could point me to a PFT article that DOESN'T make McDaniels look like and idiot, I'd be stunned. Those guys try to slam the Broncos any way they can. Always have, always will.

PRBronco
01-20-2010, 01:52 PM
Also, if you could point me to a PFT article that DOESN'T make McDaniels look like and idiot, I'd be stunned. Those guys try to slam the Broncos any way they can. Always have, always will.

They've eased up a little since Shanahan left, they hated that guy's guts for some reason. Either way, they're grade A twats.

Popps
01-20-2010, 02:25 PM
bla bla bla.... I'm sad... bla bla bla.... I want Jay back... bla bla... make it 1995 again... bla bla bla....

http://www.ietjer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/AttentionWhore-poster.jpg

bpc
01-20-2010, 03:17 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/football/story/1433901.html

"Last week, the Dolphins contacted the Broncos about interviewing Nolan because there was a widespread understanding in league circles that Nolan's working relationship with Broncos coach Josh McDaniels had soured as a result of philosophical differences."

Phins fans are happy with the move judging from comments.

Of course they are. Nolan's defense gave us a legitimate chance to win 12 or 13 games this year. McD's offense put is in position to win very little but were bailed out by the D, and also special teams.

I expect that offense to be top 5-10 this year and go to the playoffs. If not... sccchtick. Time to move along like we did after Wade Phillip's 2nd year.

Requiem
01-20-2010, 03:17 PM
And I disagree that Crowder and Thomas are "Sub-par." Marcus Thomas has played a ton for us in his three years, even this year - his first ever 3-4 experience. And Crowder was 2nd on our team in sacks as a rookie ... plus he had 43 tackles, 3.5 sacks and started 4 or 5 games for Tampa this year. He's not a 3-4 guy, sure, but he and Thomas both fit your "Quality Role Player" tier.

I was Tim Crowder homer and while he didn't do anything special this year, he did well in his role at LE for the Buccaneers. I'd make that concession and perhaps for Thomas as well, but they are nothing special. Just role guys. Good catch, I'd move them.

I won't move Williams. He may be talented, but not established, and has done nothing to merit the rating of anything more in the NFL.

{quote]You forgot Ryan Harris, he's a "Quality Player" with Kuper and Royal, and you forgot Jay Cutler, who should be "Starting Material" at least.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I forgot Ryan. He was great for us in Shanahan's last year, but was playing average before his injury this year. That and the fact he missed his first season mainly due to injury is why I am hesitant with him as a player, although most know I loved him coming out of Notre Dame.

And I'll give you five random teams:

Baltimore Ravens
Arizona Cardinals
New York Jets
Houston Texans
Green Bay Packers

The only hard thing with this is, "How many years do we go back?" or "How consistent was their coaching staff?" -- Additionally, where the teams were picking (lower/higher) and the total number of picks also will sway the results. I'm willing to bet those teams each have Pro-Bowlers within the past three drafts, but may have had more overall picks than the Broncos -- and had more of a chance to "hit" or "miss" -- etc. We'll see though. The Goodman's drafted some quality contributors, and some bad ones. Same goes for most around the league. I just wouldn't trumpet the Goodman's as being the be-all-end-all when it comes to talent evaluation.

bpc
01-20-2010, 03:19 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/football/story/1433901.html

"Last week, the Dolphins contacted the Broncos about interviewing Nolan because there was a widespread understanding in league circles that Nolan's working relationship with Broncos coach Josh McDaniels had soured as a result of philosophical differences."

Phins fans are happy with the move judging from comments.

No surprise.

Requiem
01-20-2010, 03:20 PM
Of course they are. Nolan's defense gave us a legitimate chance to win 12 or 13 games this year. McD's offense put is in position to win very little but were bailed out by the D, and also special teams.


No, not that many games. Especially near the end of the season, and the numerous other times they allowed 25+ each year. Tough to overcome. Not excusing the offense, but the defense broke down more than 3-4 times in games this year.

bpc
01-20-2010, 03:29 PM
No, not that many games. Especially near the end of the season, and the numerous other times they allowed 25+ each year. Tough to overcome. Not excusing the offense, but the defense broke down more than 3-4 times in games this year.

I'll concede the SD, KC and Oakland games at home, and Washington on the road, HOWEVER, the offense didn't bring **** those games and the problem with our defense is that they weren't big and talented enough up front. Hence if you have a propensity to go 3 and out, they might be ****ed after halftime.

I dont' think that the defense lost us the PHilly, Indy, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh games but they played amazing in stretches that even allowed us to be in those games. Specifically Pitt and Baltimre at halftime and into the 3rd quarter, and Philly and Indy, while they started slow, stopped those high scoring teams and generated enough turnovers for a good offensive unit to win those games.

The defense was good enough to win 12 game outright, if they had any kind of assistance on offense. Unfortunately for us... we did not.

Requiem
01-20-2010, 03:32 PM
Our offense was abysmal for the most part, which didn't help us play in games, but any time a team is putting near 30 on you, you are going to have a hard time winning games. That's the NFL. As the season went on, the defense wore down and teams were exposing us for our weaknesses. Hence our decline. Our offense was weak all over the place and lacked any consistency. That is why we were an 8-8 team. Lack of fluidity on either side of the ball.