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tsiguy96
01-20-2010, 12:10 AM
it appears nolan really did adopt the jimmy johnson/rex ryan school fo defense, but mcdaniels wanted to do a more patriot style of confusing coverage rather than bringing pressure. which is crazy because that same type of play is what killed our defense this year, they stopped attacking and started backing off.

mcdaniels is right that constantly blitzing to make up for lack of stopping the run is a bad idea, but still, cant just back off the pressure when you have an unfantastic front 7, you need scheme to cover up the weakness and that pressure seemed to do that. maybe it really did get exposed, who knows.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncosheadlines/ci_14224891?source=rss

Broncos_OTM
01-20-2010, 12:16 AM
At this point TSI it just dont matter. Nolan is gone. What i would suggest is accept it move on and avoid BPC threads. dude is crazy

tsiguy96
01-20-2010, 12:16 AM
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1226848

Less than two weeks after McDaniels acted in a way he would never tolerate from his players - like a petulant child - when he refused to provide his team its best chance to win its final game by benching Pro Bowl wide receiver Brandon Marshall and tight end Tony Scheffler, he called in defensive coordinator Mike Nolan and told him in no uncertain terms his Broncos would not be blitzing next season like they did this year.
The blitz, especially in some run situations, has long been a staple of Nolan’s approach to defense, and it has served him and his teams well. That included McDaniels’ Broncos, who were 29th in the league in defense a year ago but finished seventh this season, their first under Nolan, despite a late-season slide that coincided with a less than brilliant 2-8 finish to McDaniels’ roller coaster first season as a head coach.
<iframe marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" hspace="0" vspace="0" name="i_middle" id="i_middle" bordercolor="#efefef" src="http://www.bostonherald.com/includes/processAds.bg?position=Middle&companion=Top,Right,Middle,Middle1,Bottom&page=bh.heraldinteractive.com%2Fsports%2Fcolumnist s%2Farticle" frameborder="0" height="250" scrolling="no" width="300"></iframe>
There will not be a second season of that union because after that meeting Nolan and McDaniels decided what had always been the NFL equivalent of a shotgun marriage - McDaniels hired Nolan at the suggestion of the agent they both share, Bob LaMonte, despite the fact they barely knew each other - had to end.

ZONA
01-20-2010, 12:27 AM
Both styles have their pros and cons, it just depends on the players you have. McD thinks he has the players (or wants to go out and get more players) who can cover better then they can blitz, then so be it. As long as they succeed then I don't care which style we use.

broncosteven
01-20-2010, 12:36 AM
If this is true then McD is running a Totalitarian Empire with constant purges reminicent of 1930's Russia. If your not a yes men you are purged.

I wondered why the A gap blitz which was so successful early in the year all but disappeard in the last 10 game slide. I don't know if they ran it during the KFC blowout in Denver but it might have been something that would have kept Charles from getting outside like he did all day and prevent the TE or WR to seal the edge to create a hole off tackle.

Looks like the years of having a sack leader are as dead as the years when we had 1200+ yard backs.

Doesn't Slowic preach the read react which is why the CB's are 10 yards off the ball and they try to keep everything in front to prevent the big play?

I sure hope McD is done picking up blocking TE's in the 2nd round and this year we get the top DL at our slot and pickup a LB who can cover better than Davis in the middle, maybe an outside guy to replace doom in coverage packages on 3rd down when sending only 3 rushers. After that we need a depth DL guy, a center, a LG and maybe a QB depending on Orton's status. Oh and I forgot a playmaking WR who can demand double teams and beat them for game winning plays.

bpc
01-20-2010, 12:50 AM
At this point TSI it just dont matter. Nolan is gone. What i would suggest is accept it move on and avoid BPC threads. dude is crazy

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/crazy" target="_blank"><img src="http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo81/BCWhite84/Web%20stuff/crazy_face.jpg" border="0" alt="crazy face Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

Drek
01-20-2010, 03:55 AM
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1226848

This article is just outright wrong. Its obvious Nolan wanted to leave for the Dolphins and McDaniels chose not to stand in his way. You really think they where quibbling over strategy literally hours before Nolan signs his contract with the Dolphins?

Nolan saw a faster path to being a head coach again, he took it. McDaniels chose not to stand in the way of that goal. End of story.

barryr
01-20-2010, 05:24 AM
What is it with people saying McDaniels wants to run a tight ship and be a dictator? What NFL coach that runs a loose ship has so much success? So McDaniels wants things done his way. So do the other 31 head coaches, nothing new there except to McDaniels bashers that is.

WolfpackGuy
01-20-2010, 05:50 AM
In case "The Coach" didn't know, he didn't bring the Pats defensive line with him to Denver.

I thought Nolan did a helluva job overall with the average talent he had up front.

jhns
01-20-2010, 05:54 AM
What is it with people saying McDaniels wants to run a tight ship and be a dictator? What NFL coach that runs a loose ship has so much success? So McDaniels wants things done his way. So do the other 31 head coaches, nothing new there except to McDaniels bashers that is.

Really? I bet you can't name a single coach that is successful right now and has all the say on everything on top of calling their own offensive plays. I bet you can't name a single one. Zero doesn't seem so close to 31.

supermanhr9
01-20-2010, 06:02 AM
I disagree completely. I felt our blitzing was constant all year, however the 2nd half of the season people caught on.

Watch the Jets play defense, it looks nothing like the way we did. Their blitzes are calculated and effective. Ours were just, well, predictable, and only had success stopping the run. Look back at all of DOOM's sacks, they were almost always on 4 person rushes.

I honestly don't care and after cooling down about this, I believe the personnel (Dawkins, Goodman, Hill, etc) had more to do with the turnaround than Nolan did.

TheDave
01-20-2010, 06:21 AM
it appears nolan really did adopt the jimmy johnson/rex ryan school fo defense, but mcdaniels wanted to do a more patriot style of confusing coverage rather than bringing pressure. which is crazy because that same type of play is what killed our defense this year, they stopped attacking and started backing off.

mcdaniels is right that constantly blitzing to make up for lack of stopping the run is a bad idea, but still, cant just back off the pressure when you have an unfantastic front 7, you need scheme to cover up the weakness and that pressure seemed to do that. maybe it really did get exposed, who knows.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncosheadlines/ci_14224891?source=rss

I tried saying this yesterday... The scheme McKidd was around while with the pats was not an agressive blitzing defense like so many were trying to say.

I have no idea where the rumor came from that our head coach was the agressive blitz happy one.

jhns
01-20-2010, 06:30 AM
This doesn't look good for McD no matter which way you spin it. Either his own hand picked staff can't even work with him or he is incompetent at picking his own staff. How do you not know what a guy does when you hire him? It isn't like Nolan is new to the league. Did he expect Nolan to run a defense he has never worked with? It doesn't really matter what you want to believe, every scenerio makes McD look bad.

PRBronco
01-20-2010, 06:34 AM
Wow, no sources at all. You could have skipped the season, spent all of yesterday on the mane, and then written that article.

Beantown Bronco
01-20-2010, 06:50 AM
It doesn't really matter what you want to believe, every scenerio makes McD look bad.

Not true.

Can't a guy just want to leave for more money without hating where he worked?

521 1N5
01-20-2010, 06:52 AM
I wish the country was as passionate as running Obama out of office as y'all are of running McD out of town. Wonder who our next coach will be? Maybe Marty!!! He's very traditional, you guys should love it!

jhns
01-20-2010, 06:53 AM
Not true.

Can't a guy just want to leave for more money without hating where he worked?

Do we know his contract? How would he know he is getting more money, at that point, anyways?

bendog
01-20-2010, 06:53 AM
Both styles blitz. i'm just curious as to why Tiny or anyone else thinks the personnel Den has are suitable to the NE style of 3-4.

TheDave
01-20-2010, 06:55 AM
I wish the country was as passionate as running Obama out of office as y'all are of running McD out of town. Wonder who our next coach will be? Maybe Marty!!! He's very traditional, you guys should love it!

These discussions are nasty enough... Please don't bring politics into them.

Beantown Bronco
01-20-2010, 06:55 AM
Do we know his contract? How would he know he is getting more money, at that point, anyways?

We don't know......yet at least. But that's not the point. Naturally, you missed that.

I'll say it, slowly.....You said "every scenario makes McD look bad". My scenario is by definition possible and doesn't make McD look bad.

broncswin
01-20-2010, 06:56 AM
I disagree completely. I felt our blitzing was constant all year, however the 2nd half of the season people caught on.

Watch the Jets play defense, it looks nothing like the way we did. Their blitzes are calculated and effective. Ours were just, well, predictable, and only had success stopping the run. Look back at all of DOOM's sacks, they were almost always on 4 person rushes.

I honestly don't care and after cooling down about this, I believe the personnel (Dawkins, Goodman, Hill, etc) had more to do with the turnaround than Nolan did.

Agree, that is why we gave up some many rushing yards, and the points in every game, don't get me started

jhns
01-20-2010, 06:57 AM
I wish the country was as passionate as running Obama out of office as y'all are of running McD out of town. Wonder who our next coach will be? Maybe Marty!!! He's very traditional, you guys should love it!

I would hope for Cowher. Marty can build a team but still gets far to conservative in the playoffs. It doesn't really matter though. The NFL has passed Bowlen and the Bronco way of doing things. No good team gives the coach full control and has them calling plays on one side of the ball. No matter who we bring in, I doubt we are successful if we keep the power structure that we have.

gyldenlove
01-20-2010, 07:04 AM
Both styles blitz. i'm just curious as to why Tiny or anyone else thinks the personnel Den has are suitable to the NE style of 3-4.

Because Mcdaniels says so, he is always right and he always knows best, and even if he doesn't then **** it because he is the all powerful coach/GM now and he gets 3 more years to do his thing and put in his scheme and it is inconcievable that a man with so much genious could ever lead to anything negative at all.












Despite that Bowlen specifically didn't want 1 man to wield both coach and GM powers again, Mcdaniels have had both since the Goodmans left.

Despite that Mcdaniels was hailed as the prow of the good ship offense, we took significant steps backwards on points scored, 3rd downs and red zone scoring.

Despite that our defense improved from last to top 10 we know find out that Mcdaniels is not happy with how it is run and want to change it.

Spending a future 1st round draft pick on a 2nd round player in a draft he didn't prepare for propperly.

But don't let that ruin anything.

jhns
01-20-2010, 07:17 AM
We don't know......yet at least. But that's not the point. Naturally, you missed that.

I'll say it, slowly.....You said "every scenario makes McD look bad". My scenario is by definition possible and doesn't make McD look bad.

Ok, maybe I should say any scenerio that is played out within the rules. If the Dolphins tampered and Nolan just left for more money, then McD wouldn't look bad.

bendog
01-20-2010, 07:26 AM
Well, I obviously agree that Nolan used Hagen and esp Doom as he did because they arent' as fluid in pass coverage (ie lack lateral mobility) as the OLB NE typically uses, and the down lineman aren't as stout v the run as the personnel NE typically uses. DJ Williams was drafted as a Will and was never really a stout Mike in the 4-3.

But, we'll see what changes occur.

I'm mystified as to what the owner and front office are doing. But, we'll have to wait to see what happens there too.

Beantown Bronco
01-20-2010, 07:36 AM
Ok, maybe I should say any scenerio that is played out within the rules. If the Dolphins tampered and Nolan just left for more money, then McD wouldn't look bad.

When a guy supposedly assesses all his options, travels across country, goes through all the hoops, interviews, signs a contract, etc all within 24 hours of being let go......I think it's safe to say there was a good degree of tampering going on. Anyone who believes otherwise is extremely naive, at best IMO.

jhns
01-20-2010, 07:38 AM
When a guy supposedly assesses all his options, travels across country, goes through all the hoops, interviews, signs a contract, etc all within 24 hours of being let go......I think it's safe to say there was a good degree of tampering going on. Anyone who believes otherwise is extremely naive, at best IMO.

Well, if it is that obvious, the Dolphins should hear from the league any time now.

bronco militia
01-20-2010, 07:39 AM
When a guy supposedly assesses all his options, travels across country, goes through all the hoops, interviews, signs a contract, etc all within 24 hours of being let go......I think it's safe to say there was a good degree of tampering going on. Anyone who believes otherwise is extremely naive, at best IMO.

I don't think there was any tampering involved. I think it was mutual.


...the broncos were talking to Romeo Crennel last week

Beantown Bronco
01-20-2010, 07:41 AM
Well, if it is that obvious, the Dolphins should hear from the league any time now.

"Common sense obvious" and "provable" are two very different things, smartass.

The league doesn't want any part of getting involved in these things. Just look at the Favre tampering charges from two years ago. He had a freaking team issued cell phone from Green Bay that had Minnesota coaches phone numbers all over it. Did the league do anything? Nope.

bendog
01-20-2010, 07:43 AM
see post 28

Beantown Bronco
01-20-2010, 07:43 AM
I don't think there was any tampering involved. I think it was mutual.


...the broncos were talking to Romeo Crennel last week

The Broncos can talk to whomever they want to talk to, provided they are not under contract (and Crennel wasn't).

Coaches like Nolan who are under contract, however, cannot....unless the Broncos gave him permission to. And they did not.

Mr.Meanie
01-20-2010, 07:46 AM
If this is true then McD is running a Totalitarian Empire with constant purges reminicent of 1930's Russia. If your not a yes men you are purged.

:spit:

Drama and hysterics, everywhere. haha

jhns
01-20-2010, 07:46 AM
The Broncos can talk to whomever they want to talk to, provided they are not under contract (and Crennel wasn't).

Coaches like Nolan who are under contract, however, cannot....unless the Broncos gave him permission to. And they did not.

Did you ever think he may have friends in Miami or that they made an offer he couldn't refuse?

bendog
01-20-2010, 07:50 AM
Like Al Groh talking to Parcells never brought up his name. too funny.

I guess the guy is a hopeless homer.

Beantown Bronco
01-20-2010, 07:52 AM
Did you ever think he may have friends in Miami

Sure, that's a possibility. But there comes a time when you see this kind of thing happen every year when FA opens that you just have to admit to the truth.

or that they made an offer he couldn't refuse?

Weird. Didn't I explicitly talk about this above in the "not McD's fault" scenario?

bronco militia
01-20-2010, 08:00 AM
The Broncos can talk to whomever they want to talk to, provided they are not under contract (and Crennel wasn't).

Coaches like Nolan who are under contract, however, cannot....unless the Broncos gave him permission to. And they did not.

yes, we all know the rules.....the NFL doesn't care if the Broncos don't care.

what most of us all want to know is the 'who, what, where, when and how's' of why these two coaches are no longer working together.

TheDave
01-20-2010, 08:01 AM
yes, we all know the rules.....the NFL doesn't care if the Broncos don't care.

what most of us all want to know is the 'who, what, where, when and how's' of why these two coaches are no longer working together.

after just one year...

jhns
01-20-2010, 08:03 AM
Weird. Didn't I explicitly talk about this above in the "not McD's fault" scenario?

This doesn't go well with the whole "its so obvious" thing.

BroncoBuff
01-20-2010, 08:03 AM
I wondered why the A gap blitz which was so successful early in the year all but disappeard in the last 10 game slide.

Yes, we blitzed far more early on ... that's why I'm wondering about this ???

worm
01-20-2010, 08:04 AM
Like Al Groh talking to Parcells never brought up his name. too funny.

I guess the guy is a hopeless homer.

People keep missing this point. Al Groh turned down the Miami DC job last Friday. So clearly there was no tampering prior to last Friday.

I think the most plausible scenario is that Al and Mike had spoken and Al knew that Mike wasn't that happy....then Al mentioned Mike's name to Bill on Friday when he opted out. The process evolved from there.

Clearly the Phins were interested in hiring someone as quick as possible based on the two job offers that went out last week as well as their coaching commitments for the college game coming up.

strafen
01-20-2010, 08:08 AM
This article is just outright wrong. Its obvious Nolan wanted to leave for the Dolphins and McDaniels chose not to stand in his way. You really think they where quibbling over strategy literally hours before Nolan signs his contract with the Dolphins?

Nolan saw a faster path to being a head coach again, he took it. McDaniels chose not to stand in the way of that goal. End of story.This is a post by a heavy kool-aid drinker.
Don't drink the kool-aid and type!!!

Beantown Bronco
01-20-2010, 08:09 AM
This doesn't go well with the whole "its so obvious" thing.

YES IT DOES.

They worked out the $ beforehand.

How else would he be able to so easily answer the question McD asked him point blank about where he would prefer working, Denver or Miami? He already knew how much $ Miami was offering.

Beantown Bronco
01-20-2010, 08:12 AM
what most of us all want to know is the 'who, what, where, when and how's' of why these two coaches are no longer working together.

That's for those who want to read more into it than there is IMO. It's not always so complicated. More $ either this year as the Miami DC, or next year in the form of a head coaching position is enough. There doesn't have to be some big controversy between him and McD for this to happen.

Beantown Bronco
01-20-2010, 08:15 AM
People keep missing this point. Al Groh turned down the Miami DC job last Friday. So clearly there was no tampering prior to last Friday.

So. Even if true (which it isn't necessarily....they clearly could negotiate with more than one guy at a time while only making one official offer at a time), that still leaves 4 days.

jhns
01-20-2010, 08:15 AM
YES IT DOES.

They worked out the $ beforehand.

How else would he be able to so easily answer the question McD asked him point blank about where he would prefer working, Denver or Miami? He already knew how much $ Miami was offering.

The better question is, when did the team announce what happened?

bronco militia
01-20-2010, 08:16 AM
That's for those who want to read more into it than there is IMO. It's not always so complicated. More $ either this year as the Miami DC, or next year in the form of a head coaching position is enough. There doesn't have to be some big controversy between him and McD for this to happen.

LMFAO! where the hell ya been the last 10 years! ROFL!

this is what we do! :strong:

TheDave
01-20-2010, 08:18 AM
That's for those who want to read more into it than there is IMO. It's not always so complicated. More $ either this year as the Miami DC, or next year in the form of a head coaching position is enough. There doesn't have to be some big controversy between him and McD for this to happen.

We have no idea if money played a part in this and at this point there is no evidence that Sparano's tenure will be any shorter than McD's...

My point is your guessing just like everyone else.

bendog
01-20-2010, 08:26 AM
I think Beantown is just posting. Everyone has to know that Parcells, Groh and Nolan have histories and guys talk. Everyone has to know that Parcells, Groh and Nolan all knew that Tiny was trying to get a NE guy to replace Nolan. But the line that is crossed is in making job offers without permission. And the Dolphins got permission.

And no Tiny didn't do Turner any favor in initially refusing permission. That was a bitchy move. And people around the league do remember **** like that.

But imo it's pretty clear that Tiny and Nolan had a miscommunication of how much autonomy Nolan would have. Tiny wants a NE scheme. Nolan has been pretty adaptable in his gigs, but he's not really from the Billicheat coaching tree, and it appears he didn't want to go the way Tiny wanted. Was it because Nolan didn't think the scheme fit the personnel? Maybe. Was it that he didn't like working for Tiny? Very likely. Is it that he doesn't really want to use a NE model? Very possible.

Maybe it'll work out. I certainly wanted Shanny to move in the direction of the billicheat model, because they don't really need first round talent at the linebacker, defensive ends like Neil Smith and Alfred Williams are at a premium. But the Parcells model really gets to the same place in terms of what talent a team needs. Parcells likes having speed rush guys at the OLB, but he's made it work with guys like Mo Lewis and Roman Phiffer, who weren't bums, but they weren't no 1 picks either.

~Crash~
01-20-2010, 08:40 AM
Not true.

Can't a guy just want to leave for more money without hating where he worked?

I would take the heat a lone ....:sunshine:

HILife
01-20-2010, 08:42 AM
I've always been a believe in the attacking style defense. So I will take a wait and see attuditude for the new defense.

Beantown Bronco
01-20-2010, 08:44 AM
I think Beantown is just posting.

Well, the Mane doesn't have audio or video options, so I'm kind of stuck with the posting option. :clown:

But the line that is crossed is in making job offers without permission. And the Dolphins got permission.

Really? If I missed that, feel free to point it out. Everything I read said they denied permission right up until the official separation on Monday.

And no Tiny didn't do Turner any favor in initially refusing permission. That was a b****y move. And people around the league do remember **** like that.

We'll just have to agree to disagree here. I just know a lot of folks here and in the media are reading this situation the same as me. But, regardless of the motivation, it worked out better for Turner in the end either way.

bendog
01-20-2010, 08:48 AM
yeah, you missed it. And tiny was a great guy for Turner. A real stand up guy.

kamakazi_kal
01-20-2010, 08:48 AM
it appears nolan really did adopt the jimmy johnson/rex ryan school fo defense, but mcdaniels wanted to do a more patriot style of confusing coverage rather than bringing pressure. which is crazy because that same type of play is what killed our defense this year, they stopped attacking and started backing off.

mcdaniels is right that constantly blitzing to make up for lack of stopping the run is a bad idea, but still, cant just back off the pressure when you have an unfantastic front 7, you need scheme to cover up the weakness and that pressure seemed to do that. maybe it really did get exposed, who knows.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncosheadlines/ci_14224891?source=rss


What's with all the "square peg in a round hole" type of thinking here? To me the Pats play that type of defense because they have the people to execute it. It's allot like the running game this year ...... why does it have to be the patriots way or the highway. If a blitzing style works ... and it was working why not use it? Just cause the Patriots don't? that's just stupid.

kamakazi_kal
01-20-2010, 08:50 AM
When a guy supposedly assesses all his options, travels across country, goes through all the hoops, interviews, signs a contract, etc all within 24 hours of being let go......I think it's safe to say there was a good degree of tampering going on. Anyone who believes otherwise is extremely naive, at best IMO.

Well if the article is true ..... Nolan could have been looking at his possible options since the bye week.
Tampering or not he was going to leave when he was told how to do his job. Truth is we don't know what happened behind close doors. The FO is choosing not to use the media for this PR battle.

bendog
01-20-2010, 08:52 AM
What's with all the "square peg in a round hole" type of thinking here? To me the Pats play that type of defense because they have the people to execute it. It's allot like the running game this year ...... why does it have to be the patriots way or the highway. If a blitzing style works ... and it was working why not use it? Just cause the Patriots don't? that's just stupid.

Dallas is still running a kind of Parcells scheme. parcells drafted Ware. You could see the weakness in the Minny game. It's not really a surprise where the pressure will come from. Conversely, Billicheat's taken the 3-4 in a different direction. He can blitz a corner, and roll the zone to fill the vacated spot without giving the qb any hint. Billicheat's scheme is very deceptive and disrupts qb's like manning who are good at reading defenses.

Of course the officials let Ty Law run Marvin Harrison off the field too, and that prolly helped NE out too. (-:

kamakazi_kal
01-20-2010, 08:53 AM
YES IT DOES.

They worked out the $ beforehand.

How else would he be able to so easily answer the question McD asked him point blank about where he would prefer working, Denver or Miami? He already knew how much $ Miami was offering.

You ever think dude just wanted the &uck out?

broncswin
01-20-2010, 09:59 AM
You ever think dude just wanted the &uck out?

best post of the thread...who gives a flip, the guy is gone and we will have another d-cord...if anyone thinks we have control of these decisions, well then they need to leave the mane for awhile.ROFL!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-20-2010, 10:01 AM
@Adam_Schefter Hearing Broncos-Nolan breakup had nothing to do with blitzing less.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-20-2010, 10:09 AM
Full Tweet:

@Adam_Schefter Hearing Broncos-Mike Nolan breakup had nothing to do with blitzing more or less. Nolan had another option, so did McDaniels. Each moved on.

PRBronco
01-20-2010, 10:11 AM
Full Tweet:

@Adam_Schefter Hearing Broncos-Mike Nolan breakup had nothing to do with blitzing more or less. Nolan had another option, so did McDaniels. Each moved on.

Man Schefter rules. That actually wraps things up quite nicely, but I have a sneaking suspicion that this isn't the last we'll hear of it here.

bendog
01-20-2010, 10:14 AM
What's funny is absolutely no one has any info on whether NE blitzes more than den did. I will hazard the notion that billicheat blitzes more in some games than others. You cannot play Manning vanilla, but why give a team like the Jests any thing other than a read and react unless Sanchez is in third and long. lol

Saying it's about "blitzing" too much much or not enough is ..... oversimplifying something that's already oversimplfied.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-20-2010, 10:16 AM
Man Schefter rules. That actually wraps things up quite nicely, but I have a sneaking suspicion that this isn't the last we'll hear of it here.

Of course not. Next we'll hear about how Schefter is just a McD nut hugger or whatever... that he doesn't know anything... that rasta actually knows more than he does on account of his crystal ball.

jhns
01-20-2010, 10:22 AM
Man Schefter rules. That actually wraps things up quite nicely, but I have a sneaking suspicion that this isn't the last we'll hear of it here.

I'm not sure why you guys think this makes it ok? If it is mutual, McDaniels wanted to get rid of the coordinator of the only part of this team that showed significant improvement. Nolan wanting to leave shows that even McDaniels hand picked coaches don't want to work with him.

Let me say that again. The coach of the only part of this team to show improvement is not here now. I get it, you guys think everything is great for the Broncos if McD is behind it. To bad this thinking doesn't really go with reality.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-20-2010, 10:25 AM
I'm not sure why you guys think this makes it ok? If it is mutual, McDaniels wanted to get rid of the coordinator of the only part of this team that showed significant improvement. Nolan wanting to leave shows that even McDaniels hand picked coaches don't want to work with him.

Let me say that again. The coach of the only part of this team to show improvement is not here now. I get it, you guys think everything is great for the Broncos if McD is behind it. To bad this thinking doesn't really go with reality.

Christ. You're just out to find problems.

Especially loved this gem: "I get it, you guys think everything is great for the Broncos if McD is behind it." Not the case, but since you're destined to think everything is **** if McD is behind it, I suppose you feel justified.

TheDave
01-20-2010, 10:25 AM
What's funny is absolutely no one has any info on whether NE blitzes more than den did. I will hazard the notion that billicheat blitzes more in some games than others. You cannot play Manning vanilla, but why give a team like the Jests any thing other than a read and react unless Sanchez is in third and long. lol

Saying it's about "blitzing" too much much or not enough is ..... oversimplifying something that's already oversimplfied.

The New England Patriots run a modified base 3-4 Chuck Fairbanks-Hank Bullough system[11] installed by Bill Belichick. The term 3-4 means that their base formation consists of 3 defensive linemen (defensive end, nose tackle, and defensive end), 4 linebackers (outside "Will" weak side linebacker, middle "Jack" weak side linebacker, middle "Mike" strong side linebacker, and outside "Sam" strong side linebacker), and 4 defensive backs (cornerback, free safety, strong safety, and cornerback).[12] It is believed that this 3-4 structure gives the defense the greatest amount of flexibility because the linebackers are among the most versatile players on the defense, capable of rushing the quarterback, tackling runners or dropping into coverage. By mixing the roles of their linebackers from play to play, the Patriots defense seeks to cause confusion on the part of opposing offenses. At times the Patriots will also shade their defensive linemen different ways, creating "over" or "under" defenses. "Over" and "under" defenses simply refer to the shift of the defensive linemen to the strong or weak side of the offense, respectively, and the rotation of the linebackers in the opposite direction.

The "Fairbanks-Bullough" 3-4 system is known as a two gap system, because each of the defensive linemen are required to cover the gaps to both sides of the offensive lineman that try to block them.[13] Defensive linemen in this system tend to be stouter, as they need to be able to hold their place without being overwhelmed in order to allow the linebackers behind them to make plays. This is the reason that defensive linemen such as Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork do not always rack up sack and tackle statistics despite their critical importance to the team.[14]

The system is at times more conservative than certain other defenses currently in vogue in the league,[15] despite the constant threat of its potent linebacker blitz.[citation needed] The Patriots defensive system generally places an emphasis on physicality and discipline over mobility and risk taking[citation needed] and is sometimes characterized as a "bend but do not break defense".[16]


Though this is a Wiki article... this is how I always saw the Pats defense.

gyldenlove
01-20-2010, 10:28 AM
Dallas is still running a kind of Parcells scheme. parcells drafted Ware. You could see the weakness in the Minny game. It's not really a surprise where the pressure will come from. Conversely, Billicheat's taken the 3-4 in a different direction. He can blitz a corner, and roll the zone to fill the vacated spot without giving the qb any hint. Billicheat's scheme is very deceptive and disrupts qb's like manning who are good at reading defenses.

Of course the officials let Ty Law run Marvin Harrison off the field too, and that prolly helped NE out too. (-:

Dallas runs Wade Philips 1-gap 3-4 much more than Parcells. It is much more similar to the system run in San Diego than what is run in Miami, Denver or New England.

The Parcells system to some extend and the Bellichick variant specifically relies much more on having 4 actual linebackers that can all drop into zone or man cover, while the linemen have to hold up the offensive line and keep the offensive linemen off the linebackers.
The system Philips runs and to some extend Nolan as well uses the linemen in much more of a gap assignment way and relies more on having 1 or 2 pass rushers on the outside who as tasked with playing contain and rush and then the ILBs are the linebackers who have to control the gap that the defensive line can't handle as well as covering.

The reason New England uses much more zone blitz and can use safety and CB blitzes is that they don't have a dedicated pass rushing OLB like we have Dumervil or Dallas has Ware or San Diego had Merriman. Baltimore is really the middle ground since Suggs does it all, but that is rare and they have for a while now been running a very aggressive scheme with a lot of blitzing from different angles which requires very flexible linebackers.

jhns
01-20-2010, 10:29 AM
Not the case, but since you're destined to think everything is **** if McD is behind it, I suppose you feel justified.

It is the case. It is why you all get so pissy when people critisize him.

I didn't think having Nolan and the defensive signings was a bad thing. I actually didn't want McD fired anymore after seeing the direction of the defense. That didn't work out so well though.

It isn't that I want to think everything he does is crap. He just forces me to think this way. We are starting Kyle Orton....

BigPlayShay
01-20-2010, 10:41 AM
http://twitter.com/VicLombardi

Despite what you've read, the blitz package had nothing to do with McD-Nolan divorce. Just two different coaching styles.


and also


Studesville on his way to Denver as new Broncos RBcoach. Also, more hirings expected tomorrow. Vicandgary.com

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-20-2010, 10:46 AM
http://twitter.com/VicLombardi

Despite what you've read, the blitz package had nothing to do with McD-Nolan divorce. Just two different coaching styles.


and also


Studesville on his way to Denver as new Broncos RBcoach. Also, more hirings expected tomorrow. Vicandgary.com

WHAT???????????? It's not Josh's BROTHER? But what will we have to freak out about??

Popps
01-20-2010, 10:50 AM
At this point TSI it just dont matter. Nolan is gone. What i would suggest is accept it move on and avoid BPC threads. dude is crazy

:rofl:

bendog
01-20-2010, 11:06 AM
I think that's pretty accurate

And this from what seems to be a fan site, and while I tink the quotes are accurate, they are not footnoted. It is certainly true about the original Orange Crush. With Swenson and TJ there really was little blitzing. Simon Fletcher and Meck played in a different version.


New England Head Coach Bill Belichick:

"Joe Collier was my first exposure to the true 3-4 defense as we know it. Prior to that I was at Detroit. In Detroit we ran the 3-4 defense, but we ran it out of a 4-3 and the linebacker over a tight end was a down lineman, that was Kenny Sanders. And it had all the principles and elements of a 3-4 defense. It just had a defensive end on the tight end but they still had the two bubbles on the guard, still had a weakside linebacker pulling him off on the open side. In that particular defense when Jimmy Carr was the coordinator, Jerry Glanville, Fritz Shurmur, Floyd Reese, that was an all-star staff. That was predicated on pressure, and when I say heavy blitzing, I'm talking in the neighborhood of 50 blitzes per game in some games, extremely heavy blitzing and pressure.

When I went to Denver, Joe's defense was the true 3-4 with multiple fronts. Most games we went into with 50 fronts, so it wasn't the straight 3-4, it was the shaded noses, kicked-down ends, walked-up linebackers and that kind of thing. So the scheme of that was a lot different and we never blitzed, twice a game maybe. It was all primarily coverage-oriented multiple, multiple fronts. And so that was the big contrast between those two systems. It was interesting. And both of them were very successful. Then when I came to New York we were 4-3 defense in '79 and '80. But when Bill (Parcells) came from New England he brought that defense down, and (Chuck) Fairbanks and those guys ran it with the Patriots, and it was back to the traditional 3-4 but without the front variation that we had in Denver.

And we played the same front in New York with (Jim) Burt on the nose, (George) Martin and (Curtis) McGriff at the left end and (Leonard) Marshall at the right end. And there was hardly any fluctuation on that, and we tried to expand the coverages and pressures a little bit. It's an interesting combination. I'd say what we do now has elements of all three of those in it. Just going back to that for a second, one thing there was a lot less to defend. There was a lot less one-back that we saw until Joe Gibbs came to Washington. There was very little shotgun. There was very little nickel. It was almost 3-4 on first down, second down, third down in the red area. Now it's everything but that. I think that had a lot to do with those systems. We're dealing with a much different set of problems on the offensive side of the ball, whatever defense you're playing these days."

--
imo he downplays LT's contribution in the Parcells evolution. Parcells made do with lesser talents with the Jests, but he also drafted James Farrior high in the first round during his brief time there. In dallass he dratfted Ware. He's always got a pressure guy off the edge. Billicheat isn't tied to that. He seems to have evolved more to having the multiple fronts that Joe Collier was using in the mid 70s. But, he's also incorporated what LeBeau has done in Pitt with the zone blitz.

My recollection of the patsies defense is that while they might seldom send more than 4 guys, you might see 2 linebackers and 2 lineman, with one down lineman dropping back to zone.
--
from the same article

Romeo Crennel as the Patriots Defensive Coordinator in 2003:

"The guys who play the 3-4, the linemen are usually bigger, stronger linemen and a lot of times to leave that big strong guy to play technique [like tying up blockers and filling a gap] you lose a step and the dynamic pass rusher that the 4-3 ends are. Our linebackers have to be our pass rushers because they have that kind of ability."
http://www.theclevelandfan.com/article_detail.php?blgId=3373

Also,

http://www.nfl.com/kickoff/story?id=09000d5d8124eb61&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

I cannot find it now, but I read an article last fall when I was trying to find out what scheme nolan was tied to. I found he wasn't really tied to one over another. But the article was about what he was doing in Denver. He inherited a plethora of underachiveing dlinemen, no true nose tackle in the Wilfolk mode, and some real chumps at linebacker ... with DJ being an guy with ability but not always showing up.

Den got killed against the run in 08. So Nolan installed really a 5-2. But that was more to stop the run. Get five guys up to jam the line, and two guys back to pick up the back. Against the pass, Nolan brought at least 4 guys, with Doom off the edge. I have no idea what % of passing downs he brought more. But NE had Vrable, McGinist, Ted-dee, and guys like Ted Johnson. For God's sake Nolen and Tiny brought in the ghost of ty law trying to find somebody who could cover.

I'll give tiny this much. We need better athletes on defense so we can stop trying to hit the qb before some guy is open 30 yards downfield. But this stuff about 'we blitz too much' is a bunch of bull****

edit: goldynlove, Yeah. I skipped over Wade. I think I confused someone yesterday that there is not one single coaching tree with Billicheat and Parcells. Billicheat is a distinct tree. Al Groh and Nolan are off the Parcells tree.

Beantown Bronco
01-20-2010, 11:07 AM
Full Tweet:

@Adam_Schefter Hearing Broncos-Mike Nolan breakup had nothing to do with blitzing more or less. Nolan had another option, so did McDaniels. Each moved on.

You're only as faithful as your options.

BroncoBuff
01-20-2010, 12:31 PM
Christ. You're just out to find problems.

Especially loved this gem: "I get it, you guys think everything is great for the Broncos if McD is behind it." Not the case, but since you're destined to think everything is **** if McD is behind it, I suppose you feel justified.
That is so sad ... I don't remember that Shanahan needed to be defended this much. People could question and bash Mike all they wanted, and there were no insecure Superfans who feared such opinions. Very few, anyway ... this "love it or leave it" contingent makes my stomach turn.

Stand up for yourselves, don't be so afraid of differing opinions that you feel forced to wave the flag and attack every time the kid gets questioned.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-20-2010, 12:50 PM
That is so sad ... I don't remember that Shanahan needed to be defended this much. People could question and bash Mike all they wanted, and there were no insecure Superfans who feared such opinions. Very few, anyway ... this "love it or leave it" contingent makes my stomach turn.

Stand up for yourselves, don't be so afraid of differing opinions that you feel forced to wave the flag and attack every time the kid gets questioned.

BB, I have no quarrel with you, but come on. It has nothing to do with a 'superfan', it has nothing to do with insecurity or McD's choices or anything else.

The tone of this forum has become so shrill. If you think that maybe letting him, I don't know, coach a second season on his three year contract, you're obviously a McD nuthugger and he can do no wrong. I have plenty of problems with how McD has run things, and I'm not crazy about seeing Nolan go. But when you post something reasonable like "perhaps it's just a part of the plan," it's met with "YEAH THE PLAN TO RUIN MY TEAM BECAUSE HE HATES THE TEAM AND THE TOWN AND THE PLAYERS rabblerabblerabble" bull**** that doesn't go ANYWHERE and leads to more back and forth than simple discussing of what's ACTUALLY happening.

I have no problem with people questioning what McD is doing. I've done it, you've done it, I think at one point or another EVERYONE here has done it. But the polarizing views, the "WE MUST FIRE HIM BEFORE HE RUINS EVERYTHING!" and the "WE ARE THE LAUGHINGSTOCK OF THE LEAGUE NOW BECAUSE OF MCPOOPYPANTSFACEHEAD" are ****ing TIRED, OLD, PATHETIC, and only lead to more shrill douchebaggery.

Honestly, I wasn't on this forum when Mike was still around, so I cannot comment on that. Something tells me it wasn't the ****ing kumbaya that you're claiming. Not with folks like Mock around. I just don't buy it.

You talk about the "love it or leave it" contingent, but you don't mention the "McD is an asshole douchebag who is trying to ruin our favorite team, and if you don't agree with that you're a nuthugger who doesn't know jack **** about football" contingent.

/shrug

jhns
01-20-2010, 01:44 PM
You talk about the "love it or leave it" contingent, but you don't mention the "McD is an a-hole douchebag who is trying to ruin our favorite team, and if you don't agree with that you're a nuthugger who doesn't know jack **** about football" contingent.

/shrug

You are a dumby head using a straw man argument again, you Mr. Stoopid Poo-Poo McDoo!

LOL

Wasn't this what you posted to me the last time I put something in quotes? Maybe you have a link to someone saying exactly that?

Oh well, the "McDaniels is above the team" crowd will never change.

bendog
01-20-2010, 01:59 PM
Tiny isn't above the team. He IS the team. (-: