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View Full Version : First reasonable report on Nolan's leaving


Hulamau
01-19-2010, 02:19 AM
good read


http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14219106

As the Broncos' confusing 2009 season wore on, Josh McDaniels and Mike Nolan began to realize that aside from their agent, they didn't have much in common.

In large part because of differences in coaching styles, philosophies and game-day play calling, McDaniels, the Broncos' head coach, and Nolan, the team's defensive coordinator, decided at the conclusion of their meeting Monday to end their business relationship after just one season.

"I definitely was surprised," Broncos inside linebacker Andra Davis said. "Didn't see this coming at all. It seemed like everything was good, everything is OK. I guess it's best if it was mutually agreed upon."

McDaniels and Nolan moved quickly to fill their voids. Nolan will interview with the Miami Dolphins for their defensive coordinator position this week, while the Broncos are likely to soon name former New England assistant Dean Pees as their fifth defensive coordinator in five years.

"I can't say anything other than Josh and I mutually agreed to part ways," said Nolan, who added he hadn't yet had time to contact his children when reached by The Denver Post.

Even from the start, McDaniels and Nolan seemed like a curious partnership. McDaniels was 32 when hired to be the Broncos' head coach last year. He is the son of a legendary high school coach from Canton, Ohio, and owed his entire NFL coaching background to the Patriots and their head coach, Bill Belichick.

McDaniels is system specific in the way he puts together his roster and game plan.

Nolan, 50, is an NFL lifer. His dad, Dick Nolan, was an NFL head coach from 1968-80. Mike Nolan coached for six NFL teams over 23 seasons, 11 as a defensive coordinator, six from 1987-92 in an earlier stint with Denver and four as head coach for the San Francisco 49ers.

"I have great respect for Mike and wish him success in the future," McDaniels said in a team media release.

Although McDaniels and Nolan never previously worked together, they were introduced through their mutual agent, Bob LaMonte. By all accounts, McDaniels and Nolan got along fine through the good times of their 6-0 start and during the rough period of their miserable 2-8 finish. They did not argue or butt heads.

According to an NFL source, the relationship between McDaniels and Nolan, while not contentious, began to gradually develop an irritant, like a scratch that wouldn't stop itching. Nolan believed he would have more autonomous control of the defense. And McDaniels, like Belichick, is a head coach who oversees all phases of a football operation.

During their 6-0 start, the Broncos allowed just 11.0 points per game. The defense was trampled down the stretch, allowing 25.8 points in the final 10 games.

Soon after the Broncos' abrupt end to their 8-8 season, McDaniels started receiving requests from other teams seeking permission to interview Nolan. Besides the Dolphins, the Bills also expressed interest. The Bears are possible too.

It appeared Nolan, who had just one year remaining on his contract, may have concluded his second coaching stint with the Broncos wasn't a good fit.

McDaniels agreed. After the Broncos' coaches took time off last week, they reconvened Monday. McDaniels met with Nolan and, at the end of their discussion, each agreed it would be best to separate.

McDaniels believes in the offensive and defensive systems he helped coach in New England. Pees worked with him on the Patriots' staff from 2004-08. When Pees, who had been the Pats' defensive coordinator since 2006, and Belichick agreed to part ways last week, McDaniels had the man to carry out his defensive beliefs.

.................................................. ........................................ continued at DPost.com

Hulamau
01-19-2010, 02:27 AM
It seems like this was mostly a mutual football decision. Both Josh and Mike seem to like and respect each other but Nolan wanted more autonomy over the D and Josh has a vision and style that works as a total system including the O and D as two sides of the same coin.

After two weeks to review the year, and no doubt with some lucrative back room carrots from Miami and others for Nolan's services .. ones that likely give him a better shot at taking over said team at some point and with perhaps less rebuilding on miami's D required .. they agreed to part ways.

Josh works best when everyone is on the same page. Nolan is a excellent defensive coach but so is Pees. As surprising as this change is, it doesn't at all necessarily mean disaster or a step back on the defense.

And at least now Josh will have all his pegs in a row and has a D coordinator who knows the system inside and out and has bought in 100%.

Josh now either sinks or swims in the next two years, but that was always the case and he know s with Pees he gets a system guy from the same system running the 3-4 as he learned it as well.

Perhaps the defensive failure the last half of the year to adapt and get better after teams started figuring out what Nolan was doing, particularly with the big break downs the last four games, played a big part in this 'mutual' parting?

While the D play significantly better the whole year over all and was the key cog in many of our early wins, its big failures in the Chokeland, Philly and KC games, and even the Indy game at the end where Orton had directed a near comeback, were more responsible for us missing the playoffs than the offense.

I'm not at all saying that is all on Nolan by any means, only that in the coaches year end review, it would have been hard not to notice the big decline in scoring D, going from 11 points allowed in the first six games to 23.5 points allowed in the last six games on D versus the offense which in the first 6 games averaged 22.2 points with a fully intact starting o-line but showed some improvement in the last 6 averaging 26 points a game with a significantly impaired o-line that trashed the run game and thus put a lot more pressure on the passing game as well.

The defense didn't have major injuries, but the weakness of the personnel in the front seven that had been masked a lot by the new schemes early on got more exposed as the season wore on and team figured out how to exploit them. Nolan wasn't able to adjust and compensate again for the talent gap up front. It not all his fault by any means, but his leaving doesn't mean fire and brimstone here either.

Though it does provide significant fodder fro the Nervous Nellies to start up the Fire Josh campaign. Why not wait and see and at least learn to look a little more deeply before assuming the worst.

You are going to have to wait anyway .... :-)

bpc
01-19-2010, 02:29 AM
Back at square zero.

crawdad
01-19-2010, 02:29 AM
Excellent post. Good information!

Hulamau
01-19-2010, 02:44 AM
Back at square zero.

BS Chris, it is not square zero.

This sounds like a deliberate mutual decision after a careful review .. what Josh promised that every areas would be looked at thoroughly for any square pegs and round holes that causes this team to not be able to rebound well.

The break down in o-line play on offense and the big drop in defensive consistency, with them having major mental and/or coaching errors at the worst time in the last half of the year .. particularly the last four games where their inability to close the deal prevented us from winning all four games.

Yes the D helped at times too but the were not ready to play the first half of the Indy game and the last quarter of the Fader and Philly games either.

The last KC game the front 7 didn't show up at all!

We still have a 3-4 and are building on what strides they did make this year. In Pees, if he is the guy, we have a proven expert in the 3-4 and specifically in working within the same total system philosophy as Josh.

So you're crying about its starting over from 'square zero' again is ludicrous and comes just from your hate hard-on for all things McD.

None of us know how Josh will work out long term. He's made his share of mistakes, as well as down a ton of good things too. This parting of Nolan may not be one of the mistakes and sounds like it was truly a mutual recognition that it might be in everyone's best interest for him to move on.

Time will tell.

You used to be more thoughtful Chris, why not wait until the dust settles a little before proclaiming this a disaster?

Popps
01-19-2010, 02:45 AM
Nice write-up. Doesn't sound that bad, really.

Look, folks... McDaniels has a way he wants things done. You can hate him for it, but it is what it is. He's not in the business of diluting his systems/coaching beliefs.

Maybe he's an intolerable asshole, and maybe he's just a guy who is going to build the kind of franchise he wants. Either way, I'm fine with giving this time to find out.

Felt like we made some progress in year one, as bumpy as it was. Next year will be telling, and we'll have a lot more info to go on. If we regress in a major way, then sure... you have to wonder if McD is just pushing too hard.

But, if things start to come together, as they did for Shanahan in year two... then I think we'll be in for something pretty cool.

It's tough for fans to accept. We all want to know right now. But the truth is, only time will tell if McD is a great coach. Personally... I DO think he'll end up a winner in this league. I just hope it's with us.

Taco John
01-19-2010, 02:52 AM
We simply lost the coach who improved our defense beyond our wildest dreams in one amazing season to unreconcilable "philisophical differences." What's the fuss?

watermock
01-19-2010, 03:19 AM
It seems like this was mostly a mutual football decision. Both Josh and Mike seem to like and respect each other but Nolan wanted more autonomy over the D and Josh has a vision and style that works as a total system including the O and D as two sides of the same coin.

After two weeks to review the year, and no doubt with some lucrative back room carrots from Miami and others for Nolan's services .. ones that likely give him a better shot at taking over said team at some point and with perhaps less rebuilding on miami's D required .. they agreed to part ways.

Josh works best when everyone is on the same page. Nolan is a excellent defensive coach but so is Pees. As surprising as this change is, it doesn't at all necessarily mean disaster or a step back on the defense.

And at least now Josh will have all his pegs in a row and has a D coordinator who knows the system inside and out and has bought in 100%.

Josh now either sinks or swims in the next two years, but that was always the case and he know s with Pees he gets a system guy from the same system running the 3-4 as he learned it as well.

Perhaps the defensive failure the last half of the year to adapt and get better after teams started figuring out what Nolan was doing, particularly with the big break downs the last four games, played a big part in this 'mutual' parting?

While the D play significantly better the whole year over all and was the key cog in many of our early wins, its big failures in the Chokeland, Philly and KC games, and even the Indy game at the end where Orton had directed a near comeback, were more responsible for us missing the playoffs than the offense.

I'm not at all saying that is all on Nolan by any means, only that in the coaches year end review, it would have been hard not to notice the big decline in scoring D, going from 11 points allowed in the first six games to 23.5 points allowed in the last six games on D versus the offense which in the first 6 games averaged 22.2 points with a fully intact starting o-line but showed some improvement in the last 6 averaging 26 points a game with a significantly impaired o-line that trashed the run game and thus put a lot more pressure on the passing game as well.

The defense didn't have major injuries, but the weakness of the personnel in the front seven that had been masked a lot by the new schemes early on got more exposed as the season wore on and team figured out how to exploit them. Nolan wasn't able to adjust and compensate again for the talent gap up front. It not all his fault by any means, but his leaving doesn't mean fire and brimstone here either.

Though it does provide significant fodder fro the Nervous Nellies to start up the Fire Josh campaign. Why not wait and see and at least learn to look a little more deeply before assuming the worst.



The Nervous Nellies should wait and see?

Dip sHIAT.

Ratboy
01-19-2010, 04:02 AM
Denver Patriots. Yay!

Ratboy
01-19-2010, 04:04 AM
We simply lost the coach who improved our defense beyond our wildest dreams in one amazing season to unreconcilable "philisophical differences." What's the fuss?

Well, if you put it that way...

KevinJames
01-19-2010, 04:10 AM
We still have a great defensive staff IMO and I don't see why Dean Pees can't be just as good as Nolan was for us.

Drek
01-19-2010, 04:45 AM
We simply lost the coach who improved our defense beyond our wildest dreams in one amazing season to unreconcilable "philisophical differences." What's the fuss?

By coaching completely counter culture to his previous styles, and instead adopting a style much more like what McDaniels was involved with and observed in New England.

Nolan didn't coach an attacking style of defense in Baltimore or San Fran. In both stop he aimed for a read and react defense. Here suddenly we where running an attack heavy scheme with multiple personnel fully committing to the blitz on many plays.

McDaniels obviously was involved in the D. Hell, Dumervil said McDaniels gave him one on one coaching during camp and pre-season.

Seems like an amicable split from both sides to me. Nolan wants a better path to a head coaching job, which he won't get if he's viewed as McDaniels' lieutenant, and McDaniels wants someone who is more intimately familiar with what he looks for in a defense.

When Pees got released I thought there was a good chance we'd find a role for him here.

rastaman
01-19-2010, 05:03 AM
Back at square zero.

I guess we will become the NE Broncos of the AFC West. My how things have changed.

UberBroncoMan
01-19-2010, 05:18 AM
I guess we will become the NE Broncos of the AFC West. My how things have changed.

The Chiefs look more like that than us.

Still, this is some stupid ****.

I'm going to miss blitzing.

On the WHOLE this defense had an immense improvement, even with the bad final 10 games.

Now once again, no stability on the D side of the ball and everyone has to learn their **** all over again.

Beantown Bronco
01-19-2010, 05:18 AM
We simply lost the coach who improved our defense beyond our wildest dreams in one amazing season to unreconcilable "philisophical differences." What's the fuss?

If the season lasted only 6 games, then I'd agree with this. Sadly, it lasts 16 games and, by the end, it was evident that it was hardly improved very much at all.

rmsanger
01-19-2010, 05:24 AM
If the season lasted only 6 games, then I'd agree with this. Sadly, it lasts 16 games and, by the end, it was evident that it was hardly improved very much at all.

Part of the problem could be that Nolan wasn't allowed to adapt is gameplan everyweek to tweek the strategy due to McDouche's hand holding control over everything. Everything that went wrong last year was McD's fault. He's the George Bush (The Decider) & Dick Cheney of the Denver Broncos.

WolfpackGuy
01-19-2010, 05:42 AM
Whoops, looks like the Broncos missed out on the Romeo Crennel sweepstakes!


LOL

Inkana7
01-19-2010, 05:47 AM
Part of the problem could be that Nolan wasn't allowed to adapt is gameplan everyweek to tweek the strategy due to McDouche's hand holding control over everything. Everything that went wrong last year was McD's fault. He's the George Bush (The Decider) & Dick Cheney of the Denver Broncos.

Please don't tell me you actually believe this.

tsiguy96
01-19-2010, 06:05 AM
Before the split, Miami sent in a request for permission to interview Nolan, sources close to the situation told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter. The parting was friendly and gave Nolan a chance to move on and talk to the Dolphins, the source told Clayton.


lkjh

HILife
01-19-2010, 06:18 AM
:(

gyldenlove
01-19-2010, 06:52 AM
This worries me, it took 1 year for Mcdaniels to alienate Nolan, it is not going to be easy to get good coaches like this - we are going to end up with a staff full of cronies.

barryr
01-19-2010, 07:04 AM
At the end of the season, the lack of talent on defense came up. Sad to see Nolan go, but coaches come and go. Rare for any team to keep all its coaches for a long period of time, especially if seen as doing a great job since other teams want them.

We already had people bad mouthing McDaniels(some do it 24/7 on any issue) for supposedly not letting Turner talk to the Skins, and then turn around and be upset once he does let him. The same would be for Nolan. How dare he let him talk to another team. No, he should let him talk.

It's like they wait to see what McDaniels does first and then bitch no matter what is decided. You can't reason with people who are only wanting to see the bad in somebody. Heck, whenever you see the "kid" remark in reference to him by some around here, who do it all the time, it's not meant as a compliment. Heck, even Shanahan had to go through some of that with the "mastermind" nonsense.

Rohirrim
01-19-2010, 07:04 AM
This worries me, it took 1 year for Mcdaniels to alienate Nolan, it is not going to be easy to get good coaches like this - we are going to end up with a staff full of cronies.

So is Shanahan. Sad to see Nolan go. Now let's get some more good players in here.

WolfpackGuy
01-19-2010, 07:09 AM
We already had people bad mouthing McDaniels(some do it 24/7 on any issue) for supposedly not letting Turner talk to the Skins, and then turn around and be upset once he does let him. The same would be for Nolan. How dare he let him talk to another team. No, he should let him talk.

I don't think many were AS upset about Turner and Dennison leaving because their departures were forgone conclusions. Especially when it was apparent their "style" was no longer wanted and after Shanahan got his new job.

BroncoInferno
01-19-2010, 07:11 AM
We simply lost the coach who improved our defense beyond our wildest dreams in one amazing season to unreconcilable "philisophical differences." What's the fuss?

Well,the beyond our wildest dreams for the first six games, anyway. Also, your statement indicates you give all the credit for the turnaround to Nolan. As the article indicates, one of the issues between the two was that Nolan wanted more autonomy with his defense, while Josh likes to have his hands in everything. Also, Josh brought in the players who were key to the turnaround. So maybe Josh had more to do with the turnaround than many want to give him credit for.

If Pees is the replacement, he'll be a good choice. He was scapegoated this season despite producing the 5th best scoring D in the league after Belichek sent his veteran talent and leadership packing and left him with a young, inexperienced group.

gunns
01-19-2010, 07:15 AM
I was shocked and dismayed when I saw Nolan was leaving. For the first time since 2005 we had a defense that actually showed up for most games, and besides 2005, it had been since the SB days. But I don't know that I'm truly disappointed that McD wants to oversee the D as head coach. It seemed like Shanahan didn't care at all about the D except to throw garbage at it most times. Pees seems to have done a decent job with the Pats defense since 2006 and I wait with nervous anticipation to see what happens.

That being said, I hope McD makes the D a priority in free agency and the draft.

jhns
01-19-2010, 07:19 AM
This article says the same as everything else. Even McDs own coaches don't want to work with him. Between that and his way of dealing with players, I'm sure we have a bright future....

WolfpackGuy
01-19-2010, 07:21 AM
But I don't know that I'm truly disappointed that McD wants to oversee the D as head coach.


As "groundbreaking and unpredictable" as the offense was this season, disappointment will be a pipe dream if this happens. We're nearing "cover your eyes" territory.

azbroncfan
01-19-2010, 07:30 AM
Some guys personalities don't mesh. No biggie. Players make coaches anyway.

jhns
01-19-2010, 07:33 AM
Players make coaches anyway.

Tell that to Royal and Elvis....

azbroncfan
01-19-2010, 07:40 AM
Tell that to Royal and Elvis....

Royal had the sophmore slump and Elvis has been productive at every level and had good coaching at Louisville. Look at Nolan's record at SF or Bill B's track record in Cleveland, Shanny's at Oakland. Coaching only does so much but it still comes down to talent.

jhns
01-19-2010, 07:45 AM
Royal had the sophmore slump and Elvis has been productive at every level and had good coaching at Louisville. Look at Nolan's record at SF or Bill B's track record in Cleveland, Shanny's at Oakland. Coaching only does so much but it still comes down to talent.

There are thousands of examples of new d-coordinators coming in and turning a bad defense around. There are thousands of examples of players falling off or suddenly showing up under new coaching. Are you serious with this? It is the coach that puts the players in a position to succeed or fail. There are very few examples of players making coaches. I would say Manning is the closest to that right now and they still have a defense that he isn't responsible for. Anyways, we don't have that kind of player. We need coaching.

baja
01-19-2010, 07:47 AM
In the grand scheme of things screw football....

TheDave
01-19-2010, 07:47 AM
Watching some people go through the mental gymnastics required to marginalize Nolans impact is pathetic to watch. Fact is, we were one of the worst defenses any of us had seen in 2008. In one year Nolan implemented his scheme with several new players and moved us to #7... That is one hell of a coaching job no matter how you look at it.

This is a big loss, and the continuation of the inflexable "My way or the highway" atitude of our head coach.

Whoever the replacement is, he has big shoes to fill and from the looks of things he better fill those shoes EXACTLY the way McKidd wants him to.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 07:49 AM
We're going to be fine. Good grief. Some of you drama queens are so unoriginal with your hair on fire, WE ARE DOOMED predictions. Just give it a rest.

Didn't somebody say that they would miss the blitzes? Because that's not really what Nolan runs. He runs a lot of big nickel (according to some of the Niner fans that I've talked to) and never really blitzes; more of a read and react type of defensive coach. If he asked to be given that leeway, and McD said no, we want an aggressive scheme... I mean, is there really something wrong with that?

McDaniels is not going to coordinate the D, like some of you guys act like you fear. Give it a rest. Pees is a good coach, runs an aggressive scheme. And what's more, McD trusts him to bring in the right people. Can't understate that.

jhns
01-19-2010, 07:55 AM
Watching some people go through the mental gymnastics required to marginalize Nolans impact is pathetic to watch. Fact is, we were one of the worst defenses any of us had seen in 2008. In one year Nolan implemented his scheme with several new players and moved us to #7... That is one hell of a coaching job no matter how you look at it.

This is a big loss, and the continuation of the inflexable "My way or the highway" atitude of our head coach.

Whoever the replacement is, he has big shoes to fill and from the looks of things he better fill those shoes EXACTLY the way McKidd wants him to.

Everyone will always act like McD is always right no matter what. That means throwing everyone else under the bus. oh well, he will be gone soon. All of the McD fans will leave with him and the Broncos will finally be able to start heading in the right direction.

mr007
01-19-2010, 07:55 AM
If we bring in Pees, I don't see this as being as bad as it initially looked on the surface.

As to the thought that Nolan wants a chance of getting a better position, he said himself he prefers to be a coordinator, because as a HC you lose a lot of your focus because of your extended responsibilities, so I'm doubting the chance to move up has anything to do with him leaving.

azbroncfan
01-19-2010, 07:58 AM
There are thousands of examples of new d-coordinators coming in and turning a bad defense around. There are thousands of examples of players falling off or suddenly showing up under new coaching. Are you serious with this? It is the coach that puts the players in a position to succeed or fail. There are very few examples of players making coaches. I would say Manning is the closest to that right now and they still have a defense that he isn't responsible for. Anyways, we don't have that kind of player. We need coaching.

Yes I am serious. When it comes to winning football games it comes down to talent and execution. Scheme's only can hide so much lack of talent and this year's D did a good job through first few games til that advantage was over. Listen this Defense got punched in the mouth and by two terrible teams in Oakland and KC. This D let Russell beat them on the last drive of the game. They gave up 200 plus yards to those bums. If it was just coaching talent then Nolan would probably still be in San Fran. Singletary pretty much had the same players Nolan had.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 07:59 AM
If we bring in Pees, I don't see this as being as bad as it initially looked on the surface.

As to the thought that Nolan wants a chance of getting a better position, he said himself he prefers to be a coordinator, because as a HC you lose a lot of your focus because of your extended responsibilities, so I'm doubting the chance to move up has anything to do with him leaving.

He couldn't have just been saying that, though. Definitely just wants to be a coordinator. I bet he never takes another head coaching gig.

/rolleyes

I find it really funny what some people choose to believe and not believe here. Seriously. Marshall says McD is one of the best coaches he's ever had, and half the board says "he's just playing along to get traded!" But Nolan says he prefers to be a coordinator, and it's handed down from God on golden tablets. Good grief.

Rock Chalk
01-19-2010, 08:01 AM
Wow, gave up 25.8 points a game in the final 10?

How is this stat being glossed over?

25.8 ppg in the last 10 games of the season where we went 2-8. Hmm.

azbroncfan
01-19-2010, 08:03 AM
Wow, gave up 25.8 points a game in the final 10?

How is this stat being glossed over?

25.8 ppg in the last 10 games of the season where we went 2-8. Hmm.

How about 200 yards plus rushing allowed to two terrible Oakland and Kansas City teams?

jhns
01-19-2010, 08:08 AM
Yes I am serious. When it comes to winning football games it comes down to talent and execution. Scheme's only can hide so much lack of talent and this year's D did a good job through first few games til that advantage was over. Listen this Defense got punched in the mouth and by two terrible teams in Oakland and KC. This D let Russell beat them on the last drive of the game. They gave up 200 plus yards to those bums.

LOL

Wow, that is pretty funny. Nolan gave us our only wins. He turned the worst ever Bronco defense into a top 10. Yes, they still had problems. Yes, a coach needs talent. No, talent doesn't make a coach. Coaches are the ones that put the talent in a position to succeed. We just lost our coach before even giving him talent. He was turning this defense around. You are a joke and will suck McDs nuts no matter what. Real fans don't support cancers.

I watched this same kind of defensive turnaround at Nebraska. I bet you think guys like Suh made Bo, right? The same Suh that wasn't even known until Bo came? The same Suh that turned into one of the best ever defensive players when Bo came? The Nebraska defense was the worst ever in Nebraska. The first year under Bo, they put up good stats(like our top 10 defense) and still collapsed down the stretch. That is because it takes more than a single season. The next year Nebraska had one of the best defenses in the country. Any Nebraska fan can tell you, this defense was looking to be doing the exact same thing. Got a lot better but couldn't hold up through the season. Was the worst ever in Bronco history and turned top 10 in a single season.

I don't even know why I am arguing this. That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. There are so many examples of new coaches going to a team and that team suddenly playing better. Coaches are far more important than players. They bring in the players. They develope the players. They put them in position to succeed or fail.

TheDave
01-19-2010, 08:09 AM
How about 200 yards plus rushing allowed to two terrible Oakland and Kansas City teams?

You need to rewatch those games... especially the KC game.

Our front 7 was too busy running around blocks to actually play the scheme. Guys like Marcus Thomas and DJ were constantly dancing around helping to create MASSIVE holes for the opposing RB's.

and FWIW Oakland did a great of a job of exposing Doom and his weakness against the run. He may be one hell of a pass rusher, but he did a pathetic job of setting the edge and keeping contain that game.

Those weren't scheme or coaching issues at play those were talent issues and a general lack of "want to" being exposed.

jhns
01-19-2010, 08:10 AM
How about 200 yards plus rushing allowed to two terrible Oakland and Kansas City teams?

Worst ever Bronco defense to top 10 defense in a single offseason. So horrible!

LOL

Must hate on Nolan to protect McD!

broncswin
01-19-2010, 08:11 AM
We just have to see what pees or who ever gets the jobs does, but I can tell you we weren't even close to a good defense at the end of the season....teams figured us out, they countered against our strenghts and we didn't adjust...yes it does suck that we have to start from scratch, but leave the drama out until there is something to show drama about.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 08:11 AM
You need to rewatch those games... especially the KC game.

Our front 7 was too busy running around blocks to actually play the scheme. Guys like Marcus Thomas and DJ were constantly dancing around helping to create MASSIVE holes for the opposing RB's.

and FWIW Oakland did a great of a job of exposing Doom and his weakness against the run. He may be one hell of a pass rusher, but he did a pathetic job of setting the edge and keeping contain that game.

Those weren't scheme or coaching issues at play those were talent issues and a general lack of "want to" being exposed.

Okay, well if these guys are running around blocks... where's the defensive coaching? Or is that McD's fault as well?

azbroncfan
01-19-2010, 08:13 AM
LOL

Wow, that is pretty funny. Nolan gave us our only wins. He turned the worst ever Bronco defense into a top 10. Yes, they still had problems. Yes, a coach needs talent. No, talent doesn't make a coach. Coaches are the ones that put the talent in a position to succeed. We just lost our coach before even giving him talent. He was turning this defense around. You are a joke and will suck McDs nuts no matter what. Real fans don't support cancers.

I watched this same kind of defensive turnaround at Nebraska. I bet you think guys like Suh made Bo, right? The same Suh that wasn't even known until Bo came? The same Suh that turned into one of the best ever defensive players when Bo came? The Nebraska defense was the worst ever in Nebraska. The first year under Bo, they put up good stats(like our top 10 defense) and still collapsed down the stretch. That is because it takes more than a single season. The next year Nebraska had one of the best defenses in the country. Any Nebraska fan can tell you, this defense was looking to be doing the exact same thing. Got a lot better but couldn't hold up through the season. Was the worst ever in Bronco history and turned top 10 in a single season.

I don't even know why I am arguing this. That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. There are so many examples of new coaches going to a team and that team suddenly playing better. Coaches are far more important than players. They bring in the players. They develope the players. They put them in position to succeed or fail.

Obviously you haven't watched the Denver Broncos of late and their attempt to hide lack of talent with coaching changes. I am not sucking McD's dink I just know that none of these changes will make any difference unless Denver adds some good talent that will allow the coaches to coach. Without it you will suck even if you have the best coaching around. I love how you compare college to the pro's which has more to do with recruiting than coaching.

broncswin
01-19-2010, 08:14 AM
Worst ever Bronco defense to top 10 defense in a single offseason. So horrible!

LOL

Must hate on Nolan to protect McD!

I don't think anyone is hating on Nolan, just talking about how the D fell apart near the end of the season...I think it was a little of everything...scheme, lack of talent, and just worn out from an O that struggled leaving the D a lot of game time...I am not saying this is exaclty what I wanted, but before we freak out, lets see who we bring in and what they can do:approve:

azbroncfan
01-19-2010, 08:15 AM
You need to rewatch those games... especially the KC game.

Our front 7 was too busy running around blocks to actually play the scheme. Guys like Marcus Thomas and DJ were constantly dancing around helping to create MASSIVE holes for the opposing RB's.

and FWIW Oakland did a great of a job of exposing Doom and his weakness against the run. He may be one hell of a pass rusher, but he did a pathetic job of setting the edge and keeping contain that game.

Those weren't scheme or coaching issues at play those were talent issues and a general lack of "want to" being exposed.

You obviously didn't read the post where I said Denver's talent was lacking and it doesn't matter who the coach is if he has no talent.

TheDave
01-19-2010, 08:16 AM
Okay, well if these guys are running around blocks... where's the defensive coaching? Or is that McD's fault as well?

Neither... It's a lack of talent and/or players the truly fit our scheme. I don't care who you are, you are never going to turn DJ into a stack and shed MLB. He absolutely must be protected by a fatty up front to be effective.

We didn't have enough fatties willing to do the dirty work. Nolan did one hell of a job to cover that up for half of the season. Unfortunately, by the end of the year everyone figured that out.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 08:16 AM
I don't think anyone is hating on Nolan, just talking about how the D fell apart near the end of the season...I think it was a little of everything...scheme, lack of talent, and just worn out from an O that struggled leaving the D a lot of game time...I am not saying this is exaclty what I wanted, but before we freak out, lets see who we bring in and what they can do:approve:

WAIT AND SEE? That'll never fly around here.

jhns
01-19-2010, 08:17 AM
I don't think anyone is hating on Nolan, just talking about how the D fell apart near the end of the season...I think it was a little of everything...scheme, lack of talent, and just worn out from an O that struggled leaving the D a lot of game time...I am not saying this is exaclty what I wanted, but before we freak out, lets see who we bring in and what they can do:approve:

No defense + no QB = wins?

Let's just fire McDaniels and get someone that people want to work and play for. That would be a start.

jhat01
01-19-2010, 08:17 AM
I was pretty irked last night when the news came out. This morning I still don't feel good about it, but I feel better because it seems to have ended on good terms. McD didn't **** can him and I was worried that he jettisoned him because of the D's fade down the stretch. Now that it seems like it wasn't some knee jerk reaction, it won't be another circus sideshow in the media. If Pees is the guy, fine. I just want to see an attacking defense every week, a defense that plays strong every game, a defense that doesn't **** the bed against bad teams with nothing to lose. I'm still excited about next year.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 08:18 AM
No defense + no QB = wins?

Let's just fire McDaniels and get someone that people want to work and play for. That would be a start.

A start to mediocrity. Awesome.

You want to become the new Raiders? Really?

You whine about consistency, then want to fire the head coach... it's baffling. it really is baffling.

broncswin
01-19-2010, 08:18 AM
Well for the guys who jump to conclusion it is gonna be another long off-season...how many good posters are gonna take a leave of absence from the Mane because of this??

broncswin
01-19-2010, 08:19 AM
i was pretty irked last night when the news came out. This morning i still don't feel good about it, but i feel better because it seems to have ended on good terms. Mcd didn't **** can him and i was worried that he jettisoned him because of the d's fade down the stretch. Now that it seems like it wasn't some knee jerk reaction, it won't be another circus sideshow in the media. If pees is the guy, fine. I just want to see an attacking defense every week, a defense that plays strong every game, a defense that doesn't **** the bed against bad teams with nothing to lose. I'm still excited about next year.

this.

BigPlayShay
01-19-2010, 08:20 AM
Denver Patriots. Yay!

And prior to that we were the Denver 49ers, woo hoo!

TheDave
01-19-2010, 08:21 AM
You obviously didn't read the post where I said Denver's talent was lacking and it doesn't matter who the coach is if he has no talent.

No, I tried to ignore such a rediculous statement. Coaching does matter, and Nolan did one hell of a job hiding our weakneses for as long as possible.

Another season of adding the right players into the same scheme, under the same coach would have been great for these players. Unfortunately that isn't going to happen.

broncswin
01-19-2010, 08:21 AM
Don't forget when we were the browncos

jhns
01-19-2010, 08:21 AM
WAIT AND SEE? That'll never fly around here.

I would say wait and see is out at this point. Nolan was the only reason I stopped calling for McDs job. Why would I wait and see now? Nolan won all of our games last season. We(the Seahawks) are picking top 3 without him. Just look at the stats being thrown around. We gave up like 10 points a game in wins. Those are stats of the greatest ever defense. When they didn't play like that, we lost. I'm sure you think it was all the great talent on defense and Nolan just held them back a lot of the time. Maybe you think the offense was responsible for wins, the one that turned out to be one of the worst in the past 20 years of Bronco football.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 08:21 AM
I was pretty irked last night when the news came out. This morning I still don't feel good about it, but I feel better because it seems to have ended on good terms. McD didn't **** can him and I was worried that he jettisoned him because of the D's fade down the stretch. Now that it seems like it wasn't some knee jerk reaction, it won't be another circus sideshow in the media. If Pees is the guy, fine. I just want to see an attacking defense every week, a defense that plays strong every game, a defense that doesn't **** the bed against bad teams with nothing to lose. I'm still excited about next year.

Well said. What's done is done. Nolan's gone, we'll probably get Pees, and nothing will really change. Time marches on.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 08:22 AM
I would say wait and see is out at this point. Nolan was the only reason I stopped calling for McDs job. Why would I wait and see now? Nolan won all of our games last season. We(the Seahawks) are picking top 3 without him. Just look at the stats being thrown around. We gave up like 10 points a game in wins. Those are stats of the greatest ever defense. When they didn't play like that, we lost. I'm sure you think it was all the great talent on defense and Nolan just held them back a lot of the time. Maybe you think the offense was responsible for wins, the one that turned out to be one of the worst in the past 20 years of Bronco football.

You STOPPED calling for McD's job? When was that? Oh right. Never.

So Nolan gets all the credit for the wins, but none of the blame for the losses? Good lord, you really are a widow.

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 08:22 AM
Watching some people go through the mental gymnastics required to marginalize Nolans impact is pathetic to watch. Fact is, we were one of the worst defenses any of us had seen in 2008. In one year Nolan implemented his scheme with several new players and moved us to #7... That is one hell of a coaching job no matter how you look at it.

This is a big loss, and the continuation of the inflexable "My way or the highway" atitude of our head coach.

Whoever the replacement is, he has big shoes to fill and from the looks of things he better fill those shoes EXACTLY the way McKidd wants him to.

Don't you think it's kind of telling that the Defense had such a good season and one of the supposed reasons Nolan wants out is because he wants total control and less input from the Head Coach? How much of the success was Nolan's system?

If you look Nolan's system in Baltimore and in San Fran it wasn't an exotic blitz happy system. The Broncos used a lot of stunts, delayed blitzes and were overall an attacking style of defense and it's been documented time and again that Nolan teaches a read and react system.

If you are the Head Coach of a team and you've been successful doing something, wouldn't you want to keep doing it? You see it as "my way or the highway" and I see it as continuing to do the things that have made him or the teams he's been a part of successful.

I'm not trying to get into it with you but this seems like another scenario where you automatically assume the worse position without having all the facts.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 08:23 AM
Don't you think it's kind of telling that the Defense had such a good season and one of the supposed reasons Nolan wants out is because he wants total control and less input from the Head Coach? How much of the success was Nolan's system?

If you look Nolan's system in Baltimore and in San Fran it wasn't an exotic blitz happy system. The Broncos used a lot of stunts, delayed blitzes and were overall an attacking style of defense and it's been documented time and again that Nolan teaches a read and react system.

If you are the Head Coach of a team and you've been successful doing something, wouldn't you want to keep doing it? You see it as "my way or the highway" and I see it as continuing to do the things that have made him or the teams he's been a part of successful.

I'm not trying to get into it with you but this seems like another scenario where you automatically assume the worse position without having all the facts.

That never happens on the OM does it? Nah.

jhns
01-19-2010, 08:24 AM
A start to mediocrity. Awesome.

You want to become the new Raiders? Really?

You whine about consistency, then want to fire the head coach... it's baffling. it really is baffling.

Riiight. I want concistency so I should want to stay with McDaniels? I don't know when I ever said anything about consistency but you will have to explain how we are getting it with this coach.

Hamrob
01-19-2010, 08:25 AM
We still have a great defensive staff IMO and I don't see why Dean Pees can't be just as good as Nolan was for us.Don't you think...much of that staff is loyal to Nolan? Ya think some or many of them will want to go join him?

HEAV
01-19-2010, 08:27 AM
Both sides gave it a try, both felt it was better to go their own ways.

I like Coach Nolan, always admired his defense and coaching style. But if he wasn't happy and McDaniels wasn't happy then it was best to move on.

I hope Dean Pees can continue what Nolan started. Nolan did a good job with a front seven full of no-names and used to be names.

More talent on the line and a second year in the 3-4 for Dumvervill,D.J.,Ayers,Haggan will help.

Like many stated before, coaching is one thing, but you need talent also.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 08:27 AM
Riiight. I want concistency so I should want to stay with McDaniels? I don't know when I ever said anything about consistency but you will have to explain how we are getting it with this coach.

Fire a head coach after one season and see how successful you are. Makes the team look like it's unbalanced and has no plan. McD clearly HAS a plan, you just aren't on board with it. That's your problem, not his.

jhns
01-19-2010, 08:28 AM
You STOPPED calling for McD's job? When was that? Oh right. Never.

So Nolan gets all the credit for the wins, but none of the blame for the losses? Good lord, you really are a widow.

I guess a lot of Bronco fans just love f ups. You support the cancer. I will continue to tell it how it is. We are going nowhere with Orton and now no defense. It should be an interesting ride though. There is no way Bowlen fires him yet so I am just hopeing he leaves with at least a little to work with when he does finally get shown the door. We can then hear from you guys about how Bowlen is screwing up and we just needed 5-6 more years before we have that perfect team that can make Orton look good.

TheDave
01-19-2010, 08:28 AM
Don't you think it's kind of telling that the Defense had such a good season and one of the supposed reasons Nolan wants out is because he wants total control and less input from the Head Coach? How much of the success was Nolan's system?

If you look Nolan's system in Baltimore and in San Fran it wasn't an exotic blitz happy system. The Broncos used a lot of stunts, delayed blitzes and were overall an attacking style of defense and it's been documented time and again that Nolan teaches a read and react system.

If you are the Head Coach of a team and you've been successful doing something, wouldn't you want to keep doing it? You see it as "my way or the highway" and I see it as continuing to do the things that have made him or the teams he's been a part of successful.

I'm not trying to get into it with you but this seems like another scenario where you automatically assume the worse position without having all the facts.


Actually when we hired Nolan there was an article that talked about him sitting out a year and watching teams like Baltimore... I think the guy added a few wrinkles to his scheme.

If he wanted a little more autonomy... well... I think he earned it. If I'm McKidd I give it to him. If things don't work I take it away.

Additionally, if Nolan was a read and react Coordinator and McDaniels didn't want that... Why did he hire him then?

jhat01
01-19-2010, 08:28 AM
Don't you think...much of that staff is loyal to Nolan? Ya think some or many of them will want to go join him?

I don't think you'll see much of that. Did any of the position coaches come with him? I don't know for sure, but it didn't seem like a bunch of 'his guys' were on the staff. I may be wrong, but I don't foresee other coaches following him.

bendog
01-19-2010, 08:29 AM
ahhh, I love the sound of wheels falling off. Bowlen will suck your money for his taxes, and sell the wreck in 4 years. lol

Broncos4tw
01-19-2010, 08:29 AM
Perhaps the defensive failure the last half of the year to adapt and get better after teams started figuring out what Nolan was doing, particularly with the big break downs the last four games, played a big part in this 'mutual' parting?

I'm sure the offenses inability to keep the ball for more then 3 plays in consecutive drives, REPEATEDLY, and our D often being on the field for long stretches, has nothing to do with it. And I'm sure McD, who apparently likes all the control, wasn't making decisions and changes on the D himself. Nope.. gotta be all Nolan.

It's not as if McDaniels, who has only been here for ONE YEAR and run out players and coaches alike since the day he got here, had anything to do with it.

ColoradoDarin
01-19-2010, 08:31 AM
Neg rep, you should know by now that reasonableness and the mane don't go together. :)

GeniusatWork
01-19-2010, 08:32 AM
I guess we will become the NE Broncos of the AFC West. My how things have changed.

Gives you and that other sissy bpc something more to whine about, you should be happy.

worm
01-19-2010, 08:35 AM
It appears that unless it is directly out of the NE manifesto, we aren't interested in it. Regardless of the success it has or the foundation it allows us to build on for next year.

Is a little continuity too much to ask for?

orinjkrush
01-19-2010, 08:35 AM
what a total train wreck. regardless of the he said, who said, we said stuff. just a total 3 story house on fire. i didn't think the weirdness of last year could be topped. wrong. and the scary part is: you know there's gonna be more just right around the corner.

watermock
01-19-2010, 08:35 AM
I'm sure the offenses inability to keep the ball for more then 3 plays in consecutive drives, REPEATEDLY, and our D often being on the field for long stretches, has nothing to do with it. And I'm sure McD, who apparently likes all the control, wasn't making decisions and changes on the D himself. Nope.. gotta be all Nolan.

It's not as if McDaniels, who has only been here for ONE YEAR and run out players and coaches alike since the day he got here, had anything to do with it.

Nope, it's all Sharipova's fault!

jhns
01-19-2010, 08:36 AM
You STOPPED calling for McD's job? When was that? Oh right. Never.

So Nolan gets all the credit for the wins, but none of the blame for the losses? Good lord, you really are a widow.

The only thing I have complained about since like week 4 is Orton. I have not said he needs fired since then. I dare you to prove that wrong. You make these claims and no one here ever backs them up.

Yes, Nolan gets credit for taking the worst ever defense and making them a great one for our wins. No, I am not going to dog him or act like he wasn't doing a great job just because that worst ever defense wasn't the greatest ever and really consistent in one season. On the other hand, our good young offense did nothing to help the D because you and McDaniels want Orton running it.

So yes, Nolan gets credit for the wins and won't be hated on for not having a horrible defense turned into a perfect one in a single season. See, I think progress is a good thing. Something we haven't seen from the offense.

HEAV
01-19-2010, 08:39 AM
what a total train wreck. regardless of the he said, who said, we said stuff. just a total 3 story house on fire. i didn't think the weirdness of last year could be topped. wrong. and the scary part is: you know there's gonna be more just right around the corner.

Well it could be worse...could be Bills fan and have Chan Gailey as our coach...or be Faider fan.

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 08:45 AM
Actually when we hired Nolan there was an article that talked about him sitting out a year and watching teams like Baltimore... I think the guy added a few wrinkles to his scheme.

If he wanted a little more autonomy... well... I think he earned it. If I'm McKidd I give it to him. If things don't work I take it away.

Additionally, if Nolan was a read and react Coordinator and McDaniels didn't want that... Why did he hire him then?

I think he (Nolan) did a good job too. However, I like to take a step back and look at both sides of the coin without predisposition. I don't think it's out of the question for a Head Coach to have some input in the Offense, Defense and Special Teams. Is that so crazy?

As far as the question on why he hired him...? Not sure.... but it's a valid question. It's hard to speculate on how that went down but I guess I would assume that like anything it seems good at first and when the two started to work together more they realized their philosophies were different and mutually agreed to part ways. It's only speculation but perhaps McD thought Nolan could bring his knowledge of the 3-4 and 4-3 (because he's coached both systems) and teach the base defense to a team that was converting from a 4-3. It obviously wasn't covered in enough detail in the interview that McDaniels would like to have some input as well.

I just don't see this as a HUGE issue. They cordially agreed to go separate ways. Nolan wants full control of his defense and McDaniels happens to be a coach who likes to have some input on all phases of a football team. I don't blame Nolan or McDaniels for moving on.

Kid A
01-19-2010, 08:51 AM
Positive spin on this would seem to be that McDaniels hired Nolan because it was an obvious hire at the time: connected through an agent, experienced 3-4 guy, etc. They obviously didn't have any experience together. After a season, in which there is zero evidence or reason to believe they clashed, they realized they had different approaches and philosophies and both could find a better fit.

Maybe that isn't how it went down. Maybe there was more animosity. Somewhat doubt that, but if I was a casual observer I can certainly see why I might start to wonder about McD's people skills. Either way, best of luck to Nolan and huge thanks to him for turning this D in the right direction. A truly impressive job by him.

TheDave
01-19-2010, 09:00 AM
I think he (Nolan) did a good job too. However, I like to take a step back and look at both sides of the coin without predisposition. I don't think it's out of the question for a Head Coach to have some input in the Offense, Defense and Special Teams. Is that so crazy?

As far as the question on why he hired him...? Not sure.... but it's a valid question. It's hard to speculate on how that went down but I guess I would assume that like anything it seems good at first and when the two started to work together more they realized their philosophies were different and mutually agreed to part ways. It's only speculation but perhaps McD thought Nolan could bring his knowledge of the 3-4 and 4-3 (because he's coached both systems) and teach the base defense to a team that was converting from a 4-3. It obviously wasn't covered in enough detail in the interview that McDaniels would like to have some input as well.

I just don't see this as a HUGE issue. They cordially agreed to go separate ways. Nolan wants full control of his defense and McDaniels happens to be a coach who likes to have some input on all phases of a football team. I don't blame Nolan or McDaniels for moving on.

If this was our first bit of drama with McKidd I would agree with you.

Unfortunately, it looks to be an all to common event.

IMO this team needed an off season of continuity... not another shake up. Because of that I would have acquiesced to Coach Nolan's demands. IMO it would have been the best thing for the team.

watermock
01-19-2010, 09:03 AM
It's not common, it's SOP.

kamakazi_kal
01-19-2010, 09:08 AM
Man these offseasons really really suck.

I see the 25PPG in the last 10 games mentioned as a reason that it's ok Nolan is leaving. Could it be that Mcd is such a control freak he wouldn't let Nolan adjust the D? It also seems to be glossed over the fact that Mcd's stellar offensive gameplanning blew balls in the last 10 games. That D spent allot of time on the field.

Beantown Bronco
01-19-2010, 09:12 AM
It also seems to be glossed over the fact that Mcd's stellar offensive gameplanning blew balls in the last 10 games. That D spent allot of time on the field.

The 2009 offense outscored the 2008 offense if you are comparing the last 10 weeks of each season. And the 2009 Broncos won the TOP battle quite a bit and didn't turn the ball over nearly as much as the 2008 Broncos offense did, so the defense was rarely put in bad situations, unlike in 2008.

SureShot
01-19-2010, 09:13 AM
If this was our first bit of drama with McKidd I would agree with you.

Unfortunately, it looks to be an all to common event.

IMO this team needed an off season of continuity... not another shake up. Because of that I would have acquiesced to Coach Nolan's demands. IMO it would have been the best thing for the team.

The question is what's next? I should offer some sort of prize to the winner who correctly predicts the next drama.

jhns
01-19-2010, 09:16 AM
The 2009 offense outscored the 2008 offense if you are comparing the last 10 weeks of each season. And the 2009 Broncos won the TOP battle quite a bit and didn't turn the ball over nearly as much as the 2008 Broncos offense did, so the defense was rarely put in bad situations, unlike in 2008.

You are wrong on the stats and your attempts to defens McD are failing horribly.

When I think of great coaches, I always think: "They are great because their players don't want to play for them and their coaches don't want to coach with them."

The offense regressed. The defense showed tons of improvement. These are the facts. You can spin them however you want, they won't change.

I don't get why you guys want to defend McD so much and throw everyone else under the bus. You really think you are being good fans by supporting our teams cancer?

bendog
01-19-2010, 09:20 AM
The question is what's next? I should offer some sort of prize to the winner who correctly predicts the next drama.

That's sort of impossible since the current head coach is sort of unpredictable, but it will probably involve his ego and need control and deflect any criticism of himself. Shanny wasn't immune, but he was a lot more competent and his ego wasn't too fragile to deal with people like Cutler

SonOfLe-loLang
01-19-2010, 09:20 AM
There are thousands of examples of new d-coordinators coming in and turning a bad defense around. There are thousands of examples of players falling off or suddenly showing up under new coaching. Are you serious with this? It is the coach that puts the players in a position to succeed or fail. There are very few examples of players making coaches. I would say Manning is the closest to that right now and they still have a defense that he isn't responsible for. Anyways, we don't have that kind of player. We need coaching.

Out of curiosity, did you ever play football?

TheDave
01-19-2010, 09:20 AM
The question is what's next? I should offer some sort of prize to the winner who correctly predicts the next drama.

Actually it shouldn't be that difficult to guess... The drama always canters on the teams strength.

2009 offseason - Good offense, terrible defense... Trade the QB

2009 regular season - Brandon Marshall is our only playmaker on offense... Deactivate him and publicly question his "injury status".

2010 Offseason - Good defense, underwhelming offense... part ways with the defensive coordinator.

Sooo... Considering our secondary is our biggest strength, I'm guessing we trade champ.

jhns
01-19-2010, 09:24 AM
Out of curiosity, did you ever play football?

Yes I did, I also played ice hockey, baseball, soccer, and a couple seasons of basketball. Anything else you want to know about me?

bendog
01-19-2010, 09:27 AM
Dave,

I think it wasn't so much about trading the qb as being afraid of having a situation like R66v6s created with Elway and Shanny. Shanny was Elway's confidant even after Shanny began his tour as head coach after Wade. But Shanny was able to work via other qb coach's like Bates w/o getting into a situation where the qb and qb coach are second guessing the HC/Off coord.

In Lil Josh's case, it was more complex becuase Cutler obviously had success in the previous scheme that Bates was involved in. Cutler did go probowl. So, to have made it work, Lil Josh would have had to sell his offensive concept to at least Cutler, and possibly Bates too. He had no interest in doing that. It was all on Cutler to accept whatever Lil Josh wanted, and the blame would be on Cutler for the failures. Similar with Nolan.

SureShot
01-19-2010, 09:28 AM
Actually it shouldn't be that difficult to guess... The drama always canters on the teams strength.

2009 offseason - Good offense, terrible defense... Trade the QB

2009 regular season - Brandon Marshall is our only playmaker on offense... Deactivate him and publicly question his "injury status".

2010 Offseason - Good defense, underwhelming offense... part ways with the defensive coordinator.

Sooo... Considering our secondary is our biggest strength, I'm guessing we trade champ.

Wheres Hotrod or Baja when you need a poll? If someone makes a poll I will throw in a lobster ride with TheRev or a Hummer on the beach from BF7 for the winner.


http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=3340&dateline=1256099663&type=profile


http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1982/2761/29953880001_large.jpg

Chris
01-19-2010, 09:30 AM
How dare you post a hummer in this thread

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 09:31 AM
Dave,

I think it wasn't so much about trading the qb as being afraid of having a situation like R66v6s created with Elway and Shanny. Shanny was Elway's confidant even after Shanny began his tour as head coach after Wade. But Shanny was able to work via other qb coach's like Bates w/o getting into a situation where the qb and qb coach are second guessing the HC/Off coord.

In Lil Josh's case, it was more complex becuase Cutler obviously had success in the previous scheme that Bates was involved in. Cutler did go probowl. So, to have made it work, Lil Josh would have had to sell his offensive concept to at least Cutler, and possibly Bates too. He had no interest in doing that. It was all on Cutler to accept whatever Lil Josh wanted, and the blame would be on Cutler for the failures. Similar with Nolan.

"Lil Josh" wasn't brought in to sate the desires of a petulant, childish quarterback. He was brought in to install his system and win football games. He's installing his system and won as many games as Shanahan did his first year.

And for that matter, McD worked for a few weeks with Cutler on watching film and working on installing the offense. Seems like Cutler was upset from the get go, and didn't want to be coached. He wanted to be patted on the head and told everything he was doing was right.

SureShot
01-19-2010, 09:31 AM
How dare you post a hummer in this thread

Nobody has to take the Hummer. The lobster ride is still an option*.


*Mike Nolan not included.

bendog
01-19-2010, 09:35 AM
"Lil Josh" wasn't brought in to sate the desires of a petulant, childish quarterback. He was brought in to install his system and win football games. He's installing his system and won as many games as Shanahan did his first year.

And for that matter, McD worked for a few weeks with Cutler on watching film and working on installing the offense. Seems like Cutler was upset from the get go, and didn't want to be coached. He wanted to be patted on the head and told everything he was doing was right.

Do me a favor. Ignore my posts and I'll do the same for you.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 09:44 AM
Do me a favor. Ignore my posts and I'll do the same for you.

Don't like logic and realism? Hey, we've all got our problems. :welcome:

bendog
01-19-2010, 09:51 AM
I don't like stupidity. Like holmgren didn't sell favre on a system or that Shanny didn't sell a system to young.

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 09:58 AM
I don't like stupidity. Like holmgren didn't sell favre on a system or that Shanny didn't sell a system to young.

Hmm, Favre and Young are two completely different personalities than Jay Cutler but you keep on.

jhns
01-19-2010, 10:05 AM
Hmm, Favre and Young are two completely different personalities than Jay Cutler but you keep on.

Yeah, because you know. More like his made up personality(created by the "McD is above the Broncos" crowd) is far different.

bendog
01-19-2010, 10:17 AM
Absolutley. Brett Favre is the most coachable player in pro sport today. No hot dog prima donna there.

Gob
01-19-2010, 10:20 AM
The 2009 offense outscored the 2008 offense if you are comparing the last 10 weeks of each season. And the 2009 Broncos won the TOP battle quite a bit and didn't turn the ball over nearly as much as the 2008 Broncos offense did, so the defense was rarely put in bad situations, unlike in 2008.

The 2009 Broncos offense and 2009 Bears offense both scored about 19 points per game after week 6. From week 11 to the end of the season, Orton and Jeff George Jr had very similar stats.
Not acceptable IMHO.

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 10:22 AM
Absolutley. Brett Favre is the most coachable player in pro sport today. No hot dog prima donna there.

Being coachable is one thing... not calling back the owner of the team because "god forbid" you are a professional sports athlete and your name came up in trade talks is another.

jhns
01-19-2010, 10:30 AM
Being coachable is one thing... not calling back the owner of the team because "god forbid" you are a professional sports athlete and your name came up in trade talks is another.

You are right, all successful organzations have front offices that act just as immature as their players. All of them have this much drama ever year.

The guys you named are just as immature as Cutler. The difference is they were with people that knew how to deal with players.

Popps
01-19-2010, 10:33 AM
I guess we will become the NE Broncos of the AFC West. My how things have changed.

Yes, we will. Just like we became the 49ers in the 90s. That's generally how these things go when a guy comes from a winning structure. They bring in systems and people who made things work.

Popps
01-19-2010, 10:39 AM
Well,the beyond our wildest dreams for the first six games, anyway. Also, your statement indicates you give all the credit for the turnaround to Nolan. As the article indicates, one of the issues between the two was that Nolan wanted more autonomy with his defense, while Josh likes to have his hands in everything. Also, Josh brought in the players who were key to the turnaround. So maybe Josh had more to do with the turnaround than many want to give him credit for.



Nolan himself said that Josh was instrumental in bringing these guys in.

Yet, you're going to hear people around here say that Nolan did it all and McD had nothing to do with it.

Then, those same people will turn around and tell you that McD controlling tyrant.

So, I guess we just need to figure out which one it is. McD is a tyrant, and made all of the defensive decisions, or he's NOT a Tyrant, and allowed Nolan freedom to do a lot of what he wanted to do.

gunns
01-19-2010, 10:42 AM
As "groundbreaking and unpredictable" as the offense was this season, disappointment will be a pipe dream if this happens. We're nearing "cover your eyes" territory.

He's not saying he's going to be the coordinator. Just some head coach input. Hey, I don't know if it'll be bad or good but it's a hell of lot better than ignoring it like Shanahan did.

mr007
01-19-2010, 10:42 AM
He couldn't have just been saying that, though. Definitely just wants to be a coordinator. I bet he never takes another head coaching gig.

/rolleyes

I find it really funny what some people choose to believe and not believe here. Seriously. Marshall says McD is one of the best coaches he's ever had, and half the board says "he's just playing along to get traded!" But Nolan says he prefers to be a coordinator, and it's handed down from God on golden tablets. Good grief.

I'm just saying what he said dip****. I didn't make some emphatic statement as if it was the end all be all, I'm simply responding to insinuations some make with words from the horses mouth. people here are ****ing retarded sometimes.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 10:47 AM
I'm just saying what he said dip****. I didn't make some emphatic statement as if it was the end all be all, I'm simply responding to insinuations some make with words from the horses mouth. people here are ****ing retarded sometimes.

I agree. People are ****ing retarded, especially here, and it's most of the time.

I was contrasting Nolan's statement, which you take as fact, with the statement Marshall made about McD at the end of the season, which was met with much ridicule and mocking from many retards on this board.

Sorry to ruffle your feathers, 007, but I wasn't directing that AT you.

People here are ****ing sensitive sometimes.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 10:49 AM
Nolan himself said that Josh was instrumental in bringing these guys in.

Yet, you're going to hear people around here say that Nolan did it all and McD had nothing to do with it.

Then, those same people will turn around and tell you that McD controlling tyrant.

So, I guess we just need to figure out which one it is. McD is a tyrant, and made all of the defensive decisions, or he's NOT a Tyrant, and allowed Nolan freedom to do a lot of what he wanted to do.

That would require people to think clearly and logically about McDaniels. Most here aren't capable.

mr007
01-19-2010, 10:52 AM
I agree. People are ****ing retarded, especially here, and it's most of the time.

I was contrasting Nolan's statement, which you take as fact, with the statement Marshall made about McD at the end of the season, which was met with much ridicule and mocking from many retards on this board.

Sorry to ruffle your feathers, 007, but I wasn't directing that AT you.

People here are ****ing sensitive sometimes.

Well when you attack someone by insinuating they take something as "God's golden tablet" it's a bit annoying. You can contrast that statement in a much better way and you wouldn't receive that type of response. Just giving back to you what you're throwing out there... no worries though, my feathers aren't ruffled.

bendog
01-19-2010, 10:55 AM
But jhns, again I'm not sure if Lil Josh was just being as much a prima donna as Cutler/Lambchop. He didn't want to chance a situation where his qb didn't buy into his scheme, and he sure didn't want to have a qb coach who wasn't on board. Other coaches have replaced successful offensively minded head coaches and developed good relations with established quarterbacks. Don Shula and Unitas. There was no lack of ego with those two guys. Dan Fouts bought into Croyall's system. Another two big ego duo. Lombardi worked with Jugenson, which was perhaps the biggest schizophrenic duo, with Jurgenson being notoriously undisciplined, but Lombardi got a helluva a year from the guy. Probowl with I think the only 60% completion rate of the guy's HOF career.

It's not the billicheat way, however. And, I'm not sure that a new coach making it work with an established qb in a new system isn't really the exception to the rule. Denver fans who grew up in the Elway era prolly don't get it, because Elway chafed in R^^v^s system for years, and finally got some relief with Shanny and then Fassel and then Shanny redeaux. That was an unusual career, with success really finding the guy at the end when his skills were diminished.

But it's up to lil Josh to find a probowl qb and make the draft picks work. He got two firsts. He's got to get at least one guy who's is a playmaker in the mode of a Seymour or at least Demarcus Ware. Maybe he will. But he just spent two no 1 picks on defense and apparantly didn't like the scheme. Not a good sign.

Play2win
01-19-2010, 11:13 AM
McD does seem to understand the yin and yang of NFL offenses and defenses, which is good. You gameplan what you do on defense partially by what you call on offense the previous series, and, likewise, you gameplan the offense by what you call on defense the previous series. This perspective could definitely lead to many more wins.

baja
01-19-2010, 11:18 AM
But jhns, again I'm not sure if Lil Josh was just being as much a prima donna as Cutler/Lambchop. He didn't want to chance a situation where his qb didn't buy into his scheme, and he sure didn't want to have a qb coach who wasn't on board. Other coaches have replaced successful offensively minded head coaches and developed good relations with established quarterbacks. Don Shula and Unitas. There was no lack of ego with those two guys. Dan Fouts bought into Croyall's system. Another two big ego duo. Lombardi worked with Jugenson, which was perhaps the biggest schizophrenic duo, with Jurgenson being notoriously undisciplined, but Lombardi got a helluva a year from the guy. Probowl with I think the only 60% completion rate of the guy's HOF career.

It's not the billicheat way, however. And, I'm not sure that a new coach making it work with an established qb in a new system isn't really the exception to the rule. Denver fans who grew up in the Elway era prolly don't get it, because Elway chafed in R^^v^s system for years, and finally got some relief with Shanny and then Fassel and then Shanny redeaux. That was an unusual career, with success really finding the guy at the end when his skills were diminished.

But it's up to lil Josh to find a probowl qb and make the draft picks work. He got two firsts. He's got to get at least one guy who's is a playmaker in the mode of a Seymour or at least Demarcus Ware. Maybe he will. But he just spent two no 1 picks on defense and apparantly didn't like the scheme. Not a good sign.

So do you still have to mow that 3/4 acre this time of year?

gyldenlove
01-19-2010, 11:19 AM
Being coachable is one thing... not calling back the owner of the team because "god forbid" you are a professional sports athlete and your name came up in trade talks is another.

Lets see, Favre jerked the Packers around for so long they had no choice but to let him go, he then prompty joins the Jets, pulls the same stunt once more and then joins the Packers arch rivals, just to take an extra large dump on everything the city of Green Bay and the state of Wisconsin did for him. Favre has more than any other QB in this league - by a large margin - been unprofessional and petulent and alienated people who supported him through his drug and alcohol problems.

bendog
01-19-2010, 11:20 AM
So do you still have to mow that 3/4 acre this time of year?

No. Wife got a job and got me a yard guy. That last year nearly killed me.

lostknight
01-19-2010, 11:22 AM
My God people. It's as simple as this. Portions of the team that McDaniels was directly responsible for - offensive play calling in particular- sucked beyond all mortal compression. Nolan (who was hired with the promise of autonomy) directed the offense the first half of the season and did well. McDaniels got a huge ego burst when he went 6-0 and sunk the reast of our season.

Yet it's nolan on his way out the door? Even if Pees is successful with with Nolan built, it's more money wasted and flushed down the toilet by the wannabe Napoleon.

McDaniels should have been stripped of his OC playcalling duties, not given more control of the defense.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 11:22 AM
Lets see, Favre jerked the Packers around for so long they had no choice but to let him go, he then prompty joins the Jets, pulls the same stunt once more and then joins the Packers arch rivals, just to take an extra large dump on everything the city of Green Bay and the state of Wisconsin did for him. Favre has more than any other QB in this league - by a large margin - been unprofessional and petulent and alienated people who supported him through his drug and alcohol problems.

See that? COACHABLE! Great teammate!

baja
01-19-2010, 11:23 AM
No. Wife got a job and got me a yard guy. That last year nearly killed me.
Where have you been posting, PM me.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 11:23 AM
My God people. It's as simple as this. Portions of the team that McDaniels was directly responsible for - offensive play calling in particular- sucked beyond all mortal compression. Nolan (who was hired with the promise of autonomy) directed the offense the first half of the season and did well. McDaniels got a huge ego burst when he went 6-0 and sunk the reast of our season.

Yet it's nolan on his way out the door? Even if Pees is successful with with Nolan built, it's more money wasted and flushed down the toilet by the wannabe Napoleon.

McDaniels should have been stripped of his OC playcalling duties, not given more control of the defense.

Couple things:
Nolan was directing the offense? Weird. Thought he was a DC.
Nolan was hired with the "promise" of autonomy? Link? Proof? Anything?

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 11:24 AM
My God people. It's as simple as this. Portions of the team that McDaniels was directly responsible for - offensive play calling in particular- sucked beyond all mortal compression. Nolan (who was hired with the promise of autonomy) directed the offense the first half of the season and did well. McDaniels got a huge ego burst when he went 6-0 and sunk the reast of our season.

Yet it's nolan on his way out the door? Even if Pees is successful with with Nolan built, it's more money wasted and flushed down the toilet by the wannabe Napoleon.

McDaniels should have been stripped of his OC playcalling duties, not given more control of the defense.

You present things as fact when you truly have no clue. That pretty much kills the rest of your post.

watermock
01-19-2010, 11:29 AM
Lets see, Favre jerked the Packers around for so long they had no choice but to let him go, he then prompty joins the Jets, pulls the same stunt once more and then joins the Packers arch rivals, just to take an extra large dump on everything the city of Green Bay and the state of Wisconsin did for him. Favre has more than any other QB in this league - by a large margin - been unprofessional and petulent and alienated people who supported him through his drug and alcohol problems.


It would be so so sweet for mock....

vancejohnson82
01-19-2010, 11:30 AM
You present things as fact when you truly have no clue. That pretty much kills the rest of your post.

exactly....he also fails to recognize that Josh had anything to do with the defense....he's a chump who just makes up fact and presents them in alignment with his argument

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 11:34 AM
exactly....he also fails to recognize that Josh had anything to do with the defense....he's a chump who just makes up fact and presents them in alignment with his argument

It's so obvious it's not even funny. Josh McDaniels comes from a system and a mentor who has always been a hands on every aspect of the team type of coach. But, according to lostknight (sorry but the name is kind of ironic) he immediately hires a coach and promises full autonomy over the defense?? Likely.....not.

broncocalijohn
01-19-2010, 11:39 AM
With a year left in his contract, why didnt we hold out for Miami to give us one of their draft picks like Chiefs did to get their sorry coach? I think a 3rd rounder would have been perfect.

watermock
01-19-2010, 11:40 AM
Maybe Nolan was just tired of kissing his baby ass every time he interupted him?

Archer81
01-19-2010, 11:41 AM
With a year left in his contract, why didnt we hold out for Miami to give us one of their draft picks like Chiefs did to get their sorry coach? I think a 3rd rounder would have been perfect.


I dont think the NFL allows coaches to be swapped for picks anymore.


:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
01-19-2010, 11:47 AM
Wish we could've snagged Romeo last week ... seems like they should've seen this coming.

broncocalijohn
01-19-2010, 11:47 AM
Yes, we will. Just like we became the 49ers in the 90s. That's generally how these things go when a guy comes from a winning structure. They bring in systems and people who made things work.

how did that work out for us from 96 to 98?

gyldenlove
01-19-2010, 11:49 AM
I dont think the NFL allows coaches to be swapped for picks anymore.


:Broncos:

Only head coaches, you can't trade for assistants.

The Joker
01-19-2010, 11:53 AM
Wish we could've snagged Romeo last week ... seems like they should've seen this coming.

Good point, seems like McDaniels wasn't really expecting this or surely he'd have wanted a piece of Crennel.

I wonder if maybe Nolan has had his head turned by Parcells, and decided to bring about this difference of opinion with McD.

If they were really so far apart in terms of being able to work together going forward, you would think they'd both be aware of that and not wait until two weeks after the season finishes to reach this so called mutual agreement?

broncocalijohn
01-19-2010, 11:56 AM
Maybe Nolan was just tired of kissing his baby ass every time he interupted him?

now u know how your nurses feel when they wipe your ass. Mock, I would rather hear an opinion on the light rail then believe one of your guesses.

fontaine
01-19-2010, 12:01 PM
I guess if the two couldn't work together it's better that they part company.

What bothers me more is that we've got a coach who now couldn't get along with the starting QB, stud WR, and now the DC that helped get the most out of our defense.

McD seems to have a habit of doing that, except he was the one who hand picked Nolan and then realized he couldn't work with him.

Beantown Bronco
01-19-2010, 12:05 PM
I guess if the two couldn't work together it's better that they part company.

What bothers me more is that we've got a coach who now couldn't get along with the starting QB, stud WR, and now the DC that helped get the most out of our defense.

McD seems to have a habit of doing that, except he was the one who hand picked Nolan and then realized he couldn't work with him.

80 or so players
20 or so coaches

And he supposedly couldn't get along with Cutler and, at times, Marshall. Two of the more immature guys you'll find anywhere. Yup, it's a habit.

Bigdawg26
01-19-2010, 12:06 PM
He reminds me of a lil annoying Lane Kiffin! They are both young pricks who are control freaks!

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 12:07 PM
I guess if the two couldn't work together it's better that they part company.

What bothers me more is that we've got a coach who now couldn't get along with the starting QB, stud WR, and now the DC that helped get the most out of our defense.

McD seems to have a habit of doing that, except he was the one who hand picked Nolan and then realized he couldn't work with him.

Oh vey! Ignorant much?

Marshall and McDaniels get along just fine. It's about money. Period. Marshall has even gone on record saying he loved "coach" and that he is responsible for his turn around.

As far as Nolan is concerned, this wouldn't be the first time two coaches, one a former Head Coach decided to work together, spent some time working together and realized it wasn't a match.

Not to mention, simply stating he couldn't get along with a QB and stud receiver is leaving a bit out of the equation isn't it? Marshall has a rap sheet the size of BF7's ego and Cutler felt he was so above the team that he didn't even return the owner's calls.

bendog
01-19-2010, 12:08 PM
Why would lil josh want another non-billicheat NFL lifer coach who wants autonomy to call his defenses? Most likely he saw a chance for a billicheat guy, and Nolan was more than willing to move on. That's really what the article says. They reached an amicable parting of the ways. Nolan is not close to being in the Billicheat coaching tree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Nolan

If anything he's more closely tied to the bill parcell's form of the 3-4, which is less blitz happy than what lil josh wants.

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 12:09 PM
Why would lil josh want another non-billicheat NFL lifer coach who wants autonomy to call his defenses? Most likely he saw a chance for a billicheat guy, and Nolan was more than willing to move on. That's really what the article says. They reached an amicable parting of the ways. Nolan is not close to being in the Billicheat coaching tree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Nolan

If anything he's more closely tied to the bill parcell's form of the 3-4, which is less blitz happy than what lil josh wants.

Wow, you are clearly seeing things from all angles. Hilarious!

bendog
01-19-2010, 12:12 PM
yeah thanks. you're a genius.

Florida_Bronco
01-19-2010, 01:35 PM
The Chiefs look more like that than us.

Still, this is some stupid ****.

I'm going to miss blitzing.

On the WHOLE this defense had an immense improvement, even with the bad final 10 games.

Now once again, no stability on the D side of the ball and everyone has to learn their **** all over again.

The blitizing is not going to go away. That style of defense come from the Patriots, NOT Nolan.

Believe me, we'll see very little change to the defense in 2010.

TheDave
01-19-2010, 01:54 PM
The blitizing is not going to go away. That style of defense come from the Patriots, NOT Nolan.

Believe me, we'll see very little change to the defense in 2010.

Blitzing style came from the Patriots? Since when?

bendog
01-19-2010, 02:14 PM
I think both don't avoid blitzing, but the Parcell's style is more attuned to having a guy like Doom, or Ware ... or LT. It's like there's consistent OLB pressure. Billicheat evolved into more of a style where the ILB are basically DT's who are too small to play down, and while there's blitzing, it's a lot of guys dropping off into zone and trying to disguise exactly who is going to rush.

Parcells/Groh/and apparantly Nolan need speed talent at OLB. Billicheat needs blue chippers talent on his defensive line.

Florida_Bronco
01-19-2010, 02:14 PM
Blitzing style came from the Patriots? Since when?

You know what I meant.

TheDave
01-19-2010, 02:16 PM
You know what I meant.

No I don't...

bendog
01-19-2010, 02:17 PM
Me neither, but if I'm doom I'm seriously annoyed/nervous.

TheDave
01-19-2010, 02:18 PM
Me neither, but if I'm doom I'm seriously annoyed/nervous.

I hope this doesn't hurt our chances of signing him

MaloCS
01-19-2010, 02:18 PM
I'm 38 years old and have been a professional for 15 of those years. Not once in my career has the term "mutually agreed upon" been used in a positive fashion. It's a politically correct way to say "no comment" without trying to rouse suspicion that something was wrong. Once the political correctness finds it's way into a response on why someone left an organization you can bet your ass that there's more to it then what it being let on.

--------------------------------------

Quote: Darrel Reed on 104.3 The Fan, interviewed by D-Mac, Mon, 1/18/10.
"McD and Nolan often collaborated on game plans."

--------------------------------------

Quote: Mike Klis, Denver Post article in this thread
"Nolan believed he would have more autonomous control of the defense."

--------------------------------------

Quote: Mike Klis, Denver Post article in this thread
"In large part because of differences in coaching styles, philosophies and game-day play calling, McDaniels, the Broncos' head coach, and Nolan, the team's defensive coordinator, decided at the conclusion of their meeting Monday to end their business relationship after just one season."

--------------------------------------

Fact: 2009 Bye week, Broncos cut Brett Kern

--------------------------------------

Fact: 2009 Bye week, Broncos cut Jack Williams, bring in Ty Law

--------------------------------------

Fact: Pre 2009 Bye week, 6 wins, 0 losses

--------------------------------------

Fact: Pre 2009 Bye week, allowed just 11.0 points per game

--------------------------------------

Fact: Post 2009 Bye week, 2 wins, 8 losses

--------------------------------------

Fact: Post 2009 Bye week, allowed 25.8 points per game

--------------------------------------

The above tells me that there's more to this story then what the Broncos' PR Dept. is letting on. It looks to me that McD was meddling in the defense which may or may not have been a key factor in the play of the unit after the bye week. I just find the above quotes and facts odd.

bendog
01-19-2010, 02:20 PM
Mutually agreed upon can mean: Josh: I'm firing his ass for a billicheat guy. Nolan: I'd break this little **** in two, but the grief wouldn't be worth the short term satisfaction.

Florida_Bronco
01-19-2010, 02:21 PM
No I don't...

What I meant was that the aggressive, attacking defense we ran this year was brought to Denver by Josh McDaniels, where he learned it.

TheDave
01-19-2010, 02:22 PM
I'm 38 years old and have been a professional for 15 of those years. Not once in my career has the term "mutually agreed upon" been used in a positive fashion. It's a politically correct way to say "no comment" without trying to rouse suspicion that something was wrong. Once the political correctness finds it's way into a response on why someone left an organization you can bet your ass that there's more to it then what it being let on.

100% true... My favorite are the "We wish him/her well in their future endeavors" email that goes out afterwards. ;D

TheDave
01-19-2010, 02:25 PM
What I meant was that the aggressive, attacking defense we ran this year was brought to Denver by Josh McDaniels, where he learned it.

He didn't learn an agressive blitzing style from the patriots... Bellichick has never been that type of guy with the pats.

Thats why I don't understand where you are coming from.

bendog
01-19-2010, 02:25 PM
uh no. but it's ok.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/10/09/week.5/index.html

this is NOT a billicheat scheme.

NYBronco
01-19-2010, 02:26 PM
I guess we will become the NE Broncos of the AFC West. My how things have changed.

The Cleveland Broncos or Denver Browns era didn't work too well, at least McD is familiar with and trying to build from a successful organization/background through coaches and players.

DBroncos4life
01-19-2010, 02:34 PM
The Cleveland Broncos or Denver Browns era didn't work too well, at least McD is familiar with and trying to build from a successful organization/background through coaches and players.

The Browns front 4 helped us get to the AFC championship game. Once you take that little factoid out of the equation yeah it didn't work that well.

NYBronco
01-19-2010, 02:41 PM
The Browns front 4 helped us get to the AFC championship game. Once you take that little factoid out of the equation yeah it didn't work that well.

Good point, factoid registered.

McD just needs equal time with his NE players/coaches as with the time and effort spent with the factoids.

Br0nc0Buster
01-19-2010, 03:00 PM
He didn't learn an agressive blitzing style from the patriots... Bellichick has never been that type of guy with the pats.

Thats why I don't understand where you are coming from.

That doesnt mean it wasnt his scheme though
I remember when he was hired him talking about having a specific scheme and sticking too it, not changing it constantly like what happened with Denver in the past

Nolan deserves a lot of credit for the defensive turn around, but Josh picked the players and it was the style of defense that Josh wanted

Remember Nolan was criticized in Washington because his schemes were too "vanilla"

Im not saying this because Nolan is gone, Iv pretty much been under the impression it was Josh's style of defense all along

Nolan doesnt have a history of highly aggressive defenses

TheDave
01-19-2010, 03:05 PM
That doesnt mean it wasnt his scheme though
I remember when he was hired him talking about having a specific scheme and sticking too it, not changing it constantly like what happened with Denver in the past

Nolan deserves a lot of credit for the defensive turn around, but Josh picked the players and it was the style of defense that Josh wanted

Remember Nolan was criticized in Washington because his schemes were too "vanilla"

Im not saying this because Nolan is gone, Iv pretty much been under the impression it was Josh's style of defense all along

Nolan doesnt have a history of highly aggressive defenses

In training camp there was an interview with Nolan talking about what he did during his year off. He talked at length about watching and learning from team like the Ravens...

On the other hand we have McKidd who has never been part of an agressive/blitzing defense...

To be honest I'm not sure who is responsible, but I do find it funny that now that nolan is gone everyone is sure the blitzing is because McKidd ordered it.

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 03:10 PM
In one year Nolan implemented his scheme with several new players and moved us to #7... That is one hell of a coaching job no matter how you look at it.




No, he did not. McDaniels picked the players, McDaniels picked the scheme(s)... he hired Nolan to come in and run it, which more sounds like something their agent set up (same agent, this is a bigger factor than anything you've read).

Give credit where credit it is due.

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 03:13 PM
In training camp there was an interview with Nolan talking about what he did during his year off. He talked at length about watching and learning from team like the Ravens...

On the other hand we have McKidd who has never been part of an agressive/blitzing defense...

To be honest I'm not sure who is responsible, but I do find it funny that now that nolan is gone everyone is sure the blitzing is because McKidd ordered it.

Yeah - I watched that interview to, learning from Ravens/Pitts/etc... not sure what he learned from Ravens because we never used any gap overload blitzes. Maybe a safety blitz (the one where Hill got the strip on Romo).

That's what made me think he was going to be aggressive too - until reports/interviews came out of McDaniels picking the players, schemes, etc.

TheDave
01-19-2010, 03:13 PM
No, he did not. McDaniels picked the players, McDaniels picked the scheme(s)... he hired Nolan to come in and run it, which more sounds like something their agent set up (same agent, this is a bigger factor than anything you've read).

Give credit where credit it is due.

Fair enough you just need to prove to me that this was McDaniels scheme.

Because when he hired Nolan, McKidd went out of his way to praise how sound his schemes were and that is why they hired him.

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 03:17 PM
The logic is as simple as 1, 2, 3.

1.) It is a FACT that McDaniels handpicked the players on defense.

2.) Nolan is the defensive coord. known for a conservative defense. McDaniels said we were going to run an attacking/aggressive defense... FORGET this though.

3.) WHY would any coach handpick players for another coaches scheme? If he wanted Nolan's full scheme, why would he go out the way and pick the players for something he isn't knowledgeable of? <<<---- just put yourself in this position.

"Yeah, I want to handpick the players, but you go and do what you can."

I'm telling you - if Miami lets Nolan take full control and pick his players, everything from the past 2 days will get bumped like I did your wife (not aimed at you Dave, just a general statement LOL).

Miami has a nice set of young CB's - but they are in desperate need of a DT, MLB, and S... I'm hoping they let Nolan take full control. The only times his defense were successful was when he had 11 pro bowlers starting (exaggeration).

Chris
01-19-2010, 03:19 PM
I thought Nolan was known for being aggressive. Not saying just asking.

bendog
01-19-2010, 03:19 PM
Seriously, how can you logically posit that Nolan ran Lil Josh's scheme? You have any link for that? You didn't see a billicheat defense in Den in 2009. You see the OLB moving to a down lineman stance on passing downs in a billicheat system?

I'm seriously curious about who picked the players on draft day. I'd guess Nolan had no imput on Moreno. But Ayers and the short guy? I'm still openminded about one or both of them eventually being players, but .... jeez. Zero this year.

mario hagen, goodman, davis, hill and dawkins were all good effort pickups. There's no upside there, but for a stop gap move it worked better than I'd feared.

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 03:22 PM
I thought Nolan was known for being aggressive. Not saying just asking.

I did too as we were hiring him, but a close friend is a huge 49ers fan...

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 03:26 PM
Seriously, how can you logically posit that Nolan ran Lil Josh's scheme? You have any link for that? You didn't see a billicheat defense in Den in 2009. You see the OLB moving to a down lineman stance on passing downs in a billicheat system?

I'm seriously curious about who picked the players on draft day. I'd guess Nolan had no imput on Moreno. But Ayers and the short guy? I'm still openminded about one or both of them eventually being players, but .... jeez. Zero this year.

mario hagen, goodman, davis, hill and dawkins were all good effort pickups. There's no upside there, but for a stop gap move it worked better than I'd feared.

Haggan was already on the team... just resigned (I think? he was on the team from last year though). lol FA moves usually have no "upside", that's why there is a draft. Unless you have a huge FA star player signing, you're getting good/solid consistent players.

No you didn't - however they had to work Dumervil into the system. Ayers and Dumervil were the only 2 OLB's that did this...both whom had to play DE's for their whole entire lives.

oubronco
01-19-2010, 03:27 PM
The logic is as simple as 1, 2, 3.

1.) It is a FACT that McDaniels handpicked the players on defense.

2.) Nolan is the defensive coord. known for a conservative defense. McDaniels said we were going to run an attacking/aggressive defense... FORGET this though.

3.) WHY would any coach handpick players for another coaches scheme? If he wanted Nolan's full scheme, why would he go out the way and pick the players for something he isn't knowledgeable of? <<<---- just put yourself in this position.

"Yeah, I want to handpick the players, but you go and do what you can."

I'm telling you - if Miami lets Nolan take full control and pick his players, everything from the past 2 days will get bumped like I did your wife (not aimed at you Dave, just a general statement LOL).

Miami has a nice set of young CB's - but they are in desperate need of a DT, MLB, and S... I'm hoping they let Nolan take full control. The only times his defense were successful was when he had 11 pro bowlers starting (exaggeration).

Or you could look at it like this

Cutler's the Problem
Marshall's the Problem
Scheffler's the Problem
the assistant coaches are the problem
Eddie Royal and Peyton Hillis are No Good
Lets Upgrade the running backs, but still manage to drag the Offense down from 2nd, to 20th
McD doesn't agree with how Nolan runs things, so he takes it over. Result?
Broncos D allows 250 to 300 yds rushing to the Redskins, Raiders, the Chiefs

So who is the Common Denominator in all these PROBLEMS?

Florida_Bronco
01-19-2010, 03:30 PM
He didn't learn an agressive blitzing style from the patriots... Bellichick has never been that type of guy with the pats.

Thats why I don't understand where you are coming from.

I'm sorry, but this has to be a typo. I mean, Belichick has always been known for running a very aggressive, blitz happy defense. ???

Seriously, how can you logically posit that Nolan ran Lil Josh's scheme? You have any link for that? Well first you have the fact that this year's defense was nothing like Nolan's defenses in his previous stops, and even Nolan himself was quoted as saying that Josh had him run a much more aggressive defense here in Denver.

You see the OLB moving to a down lineman stance on passing downs in a billicheat system? Yes, they do that on occasion.

bendog
01-19-2010, 03:33 PM
Ayers is more a dallas type player than a NE. Dallas has Ware and Spencer, both converted DE's.

Nolan ran Parcell's defense NOT billicheat's last season.

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 03:36 PM
Or you could look at it like this

Cutler's the Problem
Marshall's the Problem
Scheffler's the Problem
the assistant coaches are the problem
Eddie Royal and Peyton Hillis are No Good
Lets Upgrade the running backs, but still manage to drag the Offense down from 2nd, to 20th
McD doesn't agree with how Nolan runs things, so he takes it over. Result?
Broncos D allows 250 to 300 yds rushing to the Redskins, Raiders, the Chiefs

So who is the Common Denominator in all these PROBLEMS?

That was piss poor logic/information.

No one said Cutler was the problem until his attitude problems became apparent (Bowlen pulled the trigger, NOT MCD). Ask youself, does he have more trade value today or when we had him, performance ASIDE...

Marshall - had problems with Shanny too. Shanny is not known to exactly be a strict person now is he? Allowing players to skip practice and take days off.

Scheffler - Not sure what the whole big ordeal is here, he was involved in the offense when possible. Think back, if he had caught that pass against the Eagles, we would have had 7 points instead of 3. No one wants to talk about this though. Or the fact the team captains had a meeting and wanted him benched? WOULD YOU PLAY SOMEONE WHO SAID HE COULDN'T WAIT UNTIL THE SEASON IS OVER WHEN YOUR PLAYOFF HOPES ARE ON THE LINE?

Eddie Royal he admitted that he wants to get him more involved with the offense. Hillis...this topic has been talked about enough.

That 2nd offense last year didn't get us into the playoffs, especially after not showing up against the BILLS, and RAIDERS (LOL)

lol where in the hell did you get the last piece of logic of McDaniels being the one that he took over the defense with just those games? WTF?

How about I ask you this - 1 playoff win in a decade - common denominator?

No playoff appearances in the past 3 years before this year?

Shut the fucc up and stop acting like we've had success with anything that was here in the beginning - because the fact is we haven't other than somehow being 2nd in offense (which is really not the full story because we couldn't score in the redzone for fucc ****.).

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 03:38 PM
No one wants to talk about how Oakland came in in 2008 and smoked us 10-31... NAH... NO ONE.

oubronco
01-19-2010, 03:38 PM
That was piss poor logic/information.

No one said Cutler was the problem until his attitude problems became apparent (Bowlen pulled the trigger, NOT MCD). Ask youself, does he have more trade value today or when we had him, performance ASIDE...

Marshall - had problems with Shanny too. Shanny is not known to exactly be a strict person now is he? Allowing players to skip practice and take days off.

Scheffler - Not sure what the whole big ordeal is here, he was involved in the offense when possible. Think back, if he had caught that pass against the Eagles, we would have had 7 points instead of 3. No one wants to talk about this though. Or the fact the team captains had a meeting and wanted him benched? WOULD YOU PLAY SOMEONE WHO SAID HE COULDN'T WAIT UNTIL THE SEASON IS OVER WHEN YOUR PLAYOFF HOPES ARE ON THE LINE?

Eddie Royal he admitted that he wants to get him more involved with the offense. Hillis...this topic has been talked about enough.

That 2nd offense last year didn't get us into the playoffs, especially after not showing up against the BILLS (LOL)

lol where in the hell did you get the last piece of logic of McDaniels being the one that he took over the defense with just those games? WTF?

How about I ask you this - 1 playoff win in a decade - common denominator?

No playoff appearances in the past 3 years before this year?

Shut the fucc up and stop acting like we've had success with anything that was here in the beginning - because the fact is we haven't other than somehow being 2nd in offense (which is really not the full story because we couldn't score in the redzone for fucc ****.).

I was just giving you another perspective but since you know everything without knowing shyt carry on :welcome:

oubronco
01-19-2010, 03:39 PM
No one wants to talk about how Oakland came in in 2008 and smoked us 10-31... NAH... NO ONE.

Slowick

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 03:39 PM
Ayers is more a dallas type player than a NE. Dallas has Ware and Spencer, both converted DE's.

Nolan ran Parcell's defense NOT billicheat's last season.

It wasn't Nolan's at the end of the day and McDaniels was telling him what scheme to run - that is it...

I'm not sure how you can just take Ayers and say that he is the culprit of us running a Parcells defense when Ayers was brought in as a run stopper.

Cito Pelon
01-19-2010, 03:39 PM
I can see why they both decided it was best to amicably part ways. McD was maybe sticking his nose into what he shouldn't have been, I don't know. I'm always gonna be curious about who decided to draft The Phonz, and who decided to bench him for Ty Law. That may have been one of those "irritants".

It's not good to start over again. Now the assistant D staff may get upheaved. It's like Shanny all over again. Does McD do like Shanny and insist the new DC has to keep the same assistant staff?

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 03:42 PM
Slowick

oh ****! But I thought Oakland beating us was McDaniels fault? Is it Slowick's fault we put up 10 points?? It's not Cutler's or Shanahan's. It's gotta be... that mile high altitude? ???

Br0nc0Buster
01-19-2010, 03:43 PM
In training camp there was an interview with Nolan talking about what he did during his year off. He talked at length about watching and learning from team like the Ravens...

On the other hand we have McKidd who has never been part of an agressive/blitzing defense...

To be honest I'm not sure who is responsible, but I do find it funny that now that nolan is gone everyone is sure the blitzing is because McKidd ordered it.

Nolan doesnt have a track record of having aggressive defenses
Just because Josh is from New England doesnt mean he has to do everything exactly the same as Belicheck

Josh said he had a specific scheme in mind for the defense when he was first hired

Go back and watch when he was first hired, he explains it all there

Its Joshs scheme with Joshs players

This doesnt take anything away from Nolan, but the people who think our aggression on defense was soley his making have no idea what they are talking about

As mentioned earlier, ask any Niner fan if Nolan ran a blitz happy defense while he was there, thats not his MO

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 03:43 PM
I can see why they both decided it was best to amicably part ways. McD was maybe sticking his nose into what he shouldn't have been, I don't know. I'm always gonna be curious about who decided to draft The Phonz, and who decided to bench him for Ty Law. That may have been one of those "irritants".

It's not good to start over again. Now the assistant D staff may get upheaved. It's like Shanny all over again. Does McD do like Shanny and insist the new DC has to keep the same assistant staff?

How is this like Shanny? Yeah, it's not consistent - I'm not denying that... however Nolan was never thrown under the bus, he wasn't fired, they wanted him to stay, so WTF?

oubronco
01-19-2010, 03:43 PM
oh ****! But I thought Oakland beating us was McDaniels fault? Is it Slowick's fault we put up 10 points?? It's not Cutler's or Shanahan's. It's gotta be... that mile high altitude? ???

Dude you asked you'll have to wait till the movie's over then you will see

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 03:45 PM
Dude you asked you'll have to wait till the movie's over then you will see

:raidersux:smashraid

TheDave
01-19-2010, 03:47 PM
I'm sorry, but this has to be a typo. I mean, Belichick has always been known for running a very aggressive, blitz happy defense. ???



No... no he hasn't.

bendog
01-19-2010, 03:48 PM
Florida, it was a more aggressive defense that what billicheat runs. Nolan cut his teeth in NY in the post Parcells era under Ray Hadley and Nolan spent the one year with the Jests under Al Groh, who was Parcell's linebacker coach. Billicheat's never had a doom type position.

Everything I've seen is that Nolan is not really tied to one from of the 3-4.

But for people to say that the reason lil josh and Nolan parted ways is that lil Josh wants to bring a more aggressive "NE style" defense is bull****. Because that's not NE's style. They blitz, but they do it with disguising zones and briging players from different positions. Den didn't / doesn't have the personnel.

I understand why Doom was used in the scheme as he was. Nolan and Lil Josh had to play the personnel they had. I don't see how a guy like Ayers really fits a NE style defense ... unless they wanted to play him down like Seymour ... but as I said, I don't have any idea if Ayers will really be a player, or if he is one, what his role can be.

As for "a more aggressive defense," denver pretty much brought five to the line. I'm not sure how much more aggressive it can get.

DBroncos4life
01-19-2010, 03:49 PM
No one wants to talk about how Oakland came in in 2008 and smoked us 10-31... NAH... NO ONE.

What happened to the 2008 coaching staff?

jhns
01-19-2010, 03:52 PM
LOL..... So now Nolan didn't even run his scheme? Wtf? Are you guys serious?

If that is true, McD is a worse coach than I thought. I'm sure some of you have some spin as to why him hiring a defensive coordinator and then making him run an unfamiliar scheme is a good thing. No wonder our defense started to fall apart again. Isn't that the same thing Shanahan did the last couple of years during our collapses? Wasn't it his idea to do that 3-4, 4-3 thing? Good to know we are making all of the same mistakes again.....

TheDave
01-19-2010, 03:53 PM
Nolan doesnt have a track record of having aggressive defenses
Just because Josh is from New England doesnt mean he has to do everything exactly the same as Belicheck

Josh said he had a specific scheme in mind for the defense when he was first hired

Go back and watch when he was first hired, he explains it all there

Its Joshs scheme with Joshs players

This doesnt take anything away from Nolan, but the people who think our aggression on defense was soley his making have no idea what they are talking about

As mentioned earlier, ask any Niner fan if Nolan ran a blitz happy defense while he was there, thats not his MO

So let me try to follow this...

Nolan runs a conservative defense sits out a year and talks about all he learned from watching the Ravens, Steelers, etc.

But we are sure the blitzing wasn't him.

On the other hand McDaniels comes from a conservative Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 system... but were sure the blitzing is his call.



Look here is a bit of logic that people are forgetting... McKidd is the offensive coordinator and the head coach. His plate is already FULL. I think some of you are kidding yourselves if you think he also ran hee defense behind the scenes.

Here is something else to consider. With our lack of depth along the line we ran a hell of a lot of 5-2... So who gets credit for that one?

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 03:53 PM
What happened to the 2008 coaching staff?

Yeah - that's my point - but the fact is everyone here is moaning and groaning like we won the super bowl with that staff.

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 03:58 PM
So let me try to follow this...

Nolan runs a conservative defense sits out a year and talks about all he learned from watching the Ravens, Steelers, etc.

But we are sure the blitzing wasn't him.

On the other hand McDaniels comes from a conservative Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 system... but were sure the blitzing is his call.


Look here is a bit of logic that people are forgetting... McKidd is the offensive coordinator and the head coach. His plate is already FULL. I think some of you are kidding yourselves if you think he also ran hee defense behind the scenes.

We're not really. McDaniels discussed numerous times during the season how him and Nolan were making love and creating their game plans to attack the offense, with an offensive minded defense. Anytime they asked about the defensive plans he'd talk about creating it with Nolan during the week...

Before the season started, he said he wanted to run an aggressive attacking defense. << --- where he learned that? I don't know, I'm not knowledgeable of his whole defensive coaching tree (right now)... but he DID start off on the defensive side of the ball.

All I'm saying is - Nolan is as conservative as you can get << ---

Now this whole Patriots defense thing - you guys can go at it until I or someone can find a site that tells you how many times a team blitzes a game broken down by years.

DBroncos4life
01-19-2010, 04:02 PM
Yeah - that's my point - but the fact is everyone here is moaning and groaning like we won the super bowl with that staff.
Yet people are defending the 2009 staff like we won the super bowl as well.

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 04:03 PM
So let me try to follow this...

Nolan runs a conservative defense sits out a year and talks about all he learned from watching the Ravens, Steelers, etc.

But we are sure the blitzing wasn't him.

On the other hand McDaniels comes from a conservative Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 system... but were sure the blitzing is his call.



Look here is a bit of logic that people are forgetting... McKidd is the offensive coordinator and the head coach. His plate is already FULL. I think some of you are kidding yourselves if you think he also ran hee defense behind the scenes.

Here is something else to consider. With our lack of depth along the line we ran a hell of a lot of 5-2... So who gets credit for that one?

Both of them. :strong:

Honestly - I'm no pro when looking at details - but I cannot remember 1 time where we had 5 players with their hands down - and if you're talking about 5 players being at the LOS/POA before the snap - I guess every 3-4 defense runs this too, because you'll see them run this 3-4 set with OLB - DE - NT - DE - OLB at the LOS throughout the game.

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 04:04 PM
Yet people are defending the 2009 staff like we won the super bowl as well.

Really? Is it me or is the people going ballistic about Nolan leaving?

Whatever is the case - we just need to win more games. :thanku:

DarkHorse
01-19-2010, 04:08 PM
6-10 next year - call it.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 04:16 PM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/01/19/clearly-nolan-was-leaving-before-monday/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-blogs-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%3A+Blo g%29

Clearly Nolan was leaving before Monday

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Now hold a minute here. Mike Nolan meets with Josh McDaniels on Monday and they mutually decide to separate. And Nolan already has a job by Tuesday morning with the Miami Dolphins?
No doubt, Nolan was looking to leave before he met with McDaniels. And there can be no doubt Nolan had the Dolphins’ job lined up before he met with McDaniels. Which is fine because there’s probably a decent chance McDaniels had former New England defensive coordinator Dean Pees in his back pocket before the Nolan meeting Monday.
What this should tell Bronco fans is despite all the conspiracy theories getting thrown around out there, the phrase “mutually agreed to part ways” should be taken at face value. This would have been a firing if not for a resignation. And it would have been a resignation if not for a firing.
Nolan has told some people that McDaniels is a bright young coach but he has a different style. Pees understands that style.

Br0nc0Buster
01-19-2010, 04:42 PM
So let me try to follow this...

Nolan runs a conservative defense sits out a year and talks about all he learned from watching the Ravens, Steelers, etc.

But we are sure the blitzing wasn't him.

On the other hand McDaniels comes from a conservative Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 system... but were sure the blitzing is his call.



Look here is a bit of logic that people are forgetting... McKidd is the offensive coordinator and the head coach. His plate is already FULL. I think some of you are kidding yourselves if you think he also ran hee defense behind the scenes.

Here is something else to consider. With our lack of depth along the line we ran a hell of a lot of 5-2... So who gets credit for that one?

Your assumption that Nolan changed his stripes after watching film holds no more water than saying Josh decided not to follow the exact mold of the Patriots offense

I never said though that Josh ran the defense, just that he had a view of what style it would be and had a big hand in the players brought in(again he said he had a view when he got hired, I see no reason why he would lie about something like that)

Considering that Josh started on the defensive side of the ball, he is not completely oblivious to defense and it is perfectly reasonable to see how he would have something in mind before he got hired

Also if Josh has such and enourmous ego as so many on here claim, it doesnt make sense for him to just concede like that to Nolan, I mean Josh has proven he likes to do things a certain way, giving complete control to Nolan doesnt fit that mold

I think Nolan did a fantastic job, I dont think that we will just be able to plug in anyone and be just as good, I am just pointing out that there is reason to think that Josh had a very big hand in what kind of defense we ran, and that the scheme shouldnt dramatically change

strafen
01-19-2010, 04:53 PM
We simply lost the coach who improved our defense beyond our wildest dreams in one amazing season to unreconcilable "philisophical differences." What's the fuss?Until McDaniels figures himself out and realize he's not Belicheck, he's not his HS coach dad, he is his own person.
He needs to rely on his coaching staff and learn from people who have been in the NFL longer than he has been alive.
You don't come across as a hot shot young coach thinking he knows everything and meddle into your coaching way of running their system. You can have input and be entitled to know what's going on, but that should be the end of his intrusion with coaches jobs
The guy has a Napoleon complex, he's stubborn, he's an egomaniac, and all he wants is a yeas-sir type coaches.
Nobody who has spent most of their lives coaching in the NFL is going to bow to a 33-year old punk who has done nothing to earn his stripes in the NFL!

strafen
01-19-2010, 04:55 PM
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Clearly Nolan was leaving before Monday

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Now hold a minute here. Mike Nolan meets with Josh McDaniels on Monday and they mutually decide to separate. And Nolan already has a job by Tuesday morning with the Miami Dolphins?
No doubt, Nolan was looking to leave before he met with McDaniels. And there can be no doubt Nolan had the Dolphins’ job lined up before he met with McDaniels. Which is fine because there’s probably a decent chance McDaniels had former New England defensive coordinator Dean Pees in his back pocket before the Nolan meeting Monday.
What this should tell Bronco fans is despite all the conspiracy theories getting thrown around out there, the phrase “mutually agreed to part ways” should be taken at face value. This would have been a firing if not for a resignation. And it would have been a resignation if not for a firing.
Nolan has told some people that McDaniels is a bright young coach but he has a different style. Pees understands that style.Pees is a 60-year old coach with health issues.
I haven't had a chance to dig into his resume yet.
Somebody needs to find out who this guy is, and what he's about!

2KBack
01-19-2010, 04:57 PM
Ayers is more a dallas type player than a NE. Dallas has Ware and Spencer, both converted DE's.

Nolan ran Parcell's defense NOT billicheat's last season.

Who do you think was Parcells defensive coordinator during his most successful seasons?

SureShot
01-19-2010, 04:58 PM
In training camp there was an interview with Nolan talking about what he did during his year off. He talked at length about watching and learning from team like the Ravens...

On the other hand we have McKidd who has never been part of an agressive/blitzing defense...

To be honest I'm not sure who is responsible, but I do find it funny that now that nolan is gone everyone is sure the blitzing is because McKidd ordered it.

I heard on the light rail all kick and punt returns that went for touchdowns were drawn up by McDonalds on the sideline.

Cito Pelon
01-19-2010, 05:06 PM
How is this like Shanny? Yeah, it's not consistent - I'm not denying that... however Nolan was never thrown under the bus, he wasn't fired, they wanted him to stay, so WTF?

I'm wondering if McD like Shanny did will insist the new DC keeps the same assistant staff.

summerdenver
01-19-2010, 05:11 PM
I heard on the light rail all kick and punt returns that went for touchdowns were drawn up by McDonalds on the sideline.

By us or against us?

Popps
01-19-2010, 05:16 PM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/01/19/clearly-nolan-was-leaving-before-monday/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-blogs-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%3A+Blo g%29

Clearly Nolan was leaving before Monday

By Mike Klis (http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/author/mike-klis/)

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Now hold a minute here. Mike Nolan meets with Josh McDaniels on Monday and they mutually decide to separate. And Nolan already has a job by Tuesday morning with the Miami Dolphins?
No doubt, Nolan was looking to leave before he met with McDaniels. And there can be no doubt Nolan had the Dolphins’ job lined up before he met with McDaniels. Which is fine because there’s probably a decent chance McDaniels had former New England defensive coordinator Dean Pees in his back pocket before the Nolan meeting Monday.
What this should tell Bronco fans is despite all the conspiracy theories getting thrown around out there, the phrase “mutually agreed to part ways” should be taken at face value. This would have been a firing if not for a resignation. And it would have been a resignation if not for a firing.
Nolan has told some people that McDaniels is a bright young coach but he has a different style. Pees understands that style.


You know, no matter how many times you post rational reports like this... the imbeciles are going to run around here screaming conspiracy, panties wedged deep up their arses.

Cito Pelon
01-19-2010, 05:18 PM
I'm thinking back to the Indy game in 2009 when Denver came out on D with that weird scheme, what was it, a 5-2-4? Indy proceeded to go up 21-0 in the 1st Q. Did McD "interfere" to get that scheme changed and maybe Nolan chafed? Or was that McD's scheme to start the game and Nolan got pissed off and changed it? I don't know and nobody else does either.

We're just gonna have to wait this out and see what happens.

oubronco
01-19-2010, 05:21 PM
I'm thinking back to the Indy game in 2009 when Denver came out on D with that weird scheme, what was it, a 5-2-4? Indy proceeded to go up 21-0 in the 1st Q. Did McD "interfere" to get that scheme changed and maybe Nolan chafed? Or was that McD's scheme to start the game and Nolan got pissed off and changed it? I don't know and nobody else does either.

We're just gonna have to wait this out and see what happens.

My guess would be that the DEFENSIVE coordinater more than likely made the changes that the OFFENSIVE GURU started with

Bob's your Information Minister
01-19-2010, 05:29 PM
The part that really stinks is you guys got rid of a coach who appeared to be hired based on due diligence, and replaced him with a nepotistic hire.

Gross.

SureShot
01-19-2010, 05:31 PM
By us or against us?

Do you really think McDonalds would draw up a play that wasnt successful?

What kind of fan are you? ::)

Cito Pelon
01-19-2010, 05:48 PM
My guess would be that the DEFENSIVE coordinater more than likely made the changes that the OFFENSIVE GURU started with

I don't know, and neither do you.

oubronco
01-19-2010, 05:50 PM
I don't know, and neither do you monkey-face. :wiggle:

well you did ask for an opinion and whats with the name calling

Cito Pelon
01-19-2010, 05:53 PM
well you did ask for an opinion and whats with the name calling

I edited the monkey-face out, even though it was joke. It's like a term of affection, little monkey-face. Nevermind, it was a joke, but apparently not very funny.

TexanBob
01-19-2010, 06:14 PM
We started out fast and then played crappy at the end to finish 8-8, out of the playoffs and watched our defensive coordinator depart.

Did ANYTHING really change???

We just got Shanahan, Part II with Belichick's arrogance as a bonus.

OCBronco
01-19-2010, 07:24 PM
By the way, while the defense was greatly improved over 2008, there is still quite a lot of improvement to be made.

We finished the season ranked #26 in rushing D, folks:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

Nolan is a loss, but it's not the end of the world.

DBroncos4life
01-19-2010, 07:28 PM
By the way, while the defense was greatly improved over 2008, there is still quite a lot of improvement to be made.

We finished the season ranked #26 in rushing D, folks:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

Nolan is a loss, but it's not the end of the world.

So you think replacing Nolan is the fastest way to improve the D?

Cito Pelon
01-19-2010, 07:32 PM
By the way, while the defense was greatly improved over 2008, there is still quite a lot of improvement to be made.

We finished the season ranked #26 in rushing D, folks:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

Nolan is a loss, but it's not the end of the world.

Good point.

Kid A
01-19-2010, 07:36 PM
Just saw this on NFL.com.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/01/19/nolans-jump-from-denver-to-miami-clarified/


Nolan's Jump from Denver to Miami Clarified

With speculation surrounding why Mike Nolan decided to leave the Broncos for a lateral move to become the Dolphins’ defensive coordinator, here’s some clarity from what I’ve learned after speaking to sources close to the situation:

* There is no acrimony between Nolan and Broncos coach Josh McDaniels. The Dolphins sent the Broncos a written request to interview Nolan. McDaniels approached Nolan with the request and, in a nutshell, asked him if he’d rather be in Miami or Denver. Nolan said he would like to interview with the Dolphins. McDaniels then granted Nolan permission and wished him well.

* The Broncos have allowed their assistants to interview for jobs with other teams this offseason, taking the position that if a coach has an opportunity for a promotion, it wouldn’t stand in the way. That it did the same for Nolan to make a lateral move was somewhat interesting.

* Possibly factoring into Nolan’s decision, his contract with the Broncos supposedly was set to expire after next season, as will a lot of the team’s assistant coaches’ deals. With the possibility of a work stoppage, Nolan foresaw being able to negotiate a contract that would pay him through a lockout with the Dolphins, should the NFL and the NFL Players Association not be able to finalize a labor deal before the 2011 season.

* With a deal coming together so quickly with the Dolphins –- one day after Nolan split from Denver –- parameters of a deal had to have been in place before or shortly after he left the Broncos.



If this is how it happened (and this is as reliable an insight as we've had) I really can't see how this is spun as a negative toward McDaniels. Obviously it implies Nolan wasn't completely enamored with working in Denver under Josh.

But there is also a decided difference between "would rather work in Miami/get a better contract given the labor issues" vs. "clash of personalities, Napoleon McDaniels kicking him out the door." Seems like a completely respectful, undramatic business agreement between the two.

yerner
01-19-2010, 07:38 PM
I don't understand what the argument is about now that we know that Nolan wanted to leave and didn't like coaching with Josh. How is having a disgruntled coordinator a good idea?

If you want to blame Mcd for anything its for hiring someone he didn't know well enough last year. Other than that, its better that he left now than next year.

Gob
01-19-2010, 07:48 PM
You know, no matter how many times you post rational reports like this... the imbeciles are going to run around here screaming conspiracy, panties wedged deep up their arses.

No conspiracy theory is needed, although it is helpful to deflect arguments that way. All you really need is a belief that McDaniels is inexperienced and seems to have a work personality only his brother flourishes under.

azbroncfan
01-19-2010, 07:49 PM
I'm sorry, but this has to be a typo. I mean, Belichick has always been known for running a very aggressive, blitz happy defense. ???

Yes, they do that on occasion.

Um no the NE style is the Bill P. two gap 3-4 that doesn't rely on heavy blitzing. Now what I mean by that is sending more than 4. BB would do what the other team struggled at. He never really blitzed Manning consistently because he knew that was a death trap.

LongDongJohnson
01-19-2010, 08:13 PM
this is good. nolan sucks anyway.

he had to coach in the pressbox because he's a pussy

TotallyScrewed
01-19-2010, 08:29 PM
How about 200 yards plus rushing allowed to two terrible Oakland and Kansas City teams?

Exactly how did the offense and the play calling help keep the defense fresh and the opponent within range???

Sad to have to say it but it's a team game and one unit affects the others...Hello.

DivineLegion
01-19-2010, 08:41 PM
This is all BS, this is how the conversation really went down...

Mike: Hey Josh can I talk to you?

Josh: Sure Mike whats up.

Mike: Hey man I know we had a good defense last year...

Josh: Whats this about Mike

Mike: Look man I want to move to Miami

Josh: Are you serious?

Mike: Dude hold on theres more to this

Josh: I would hope so...

Mike: I heard you could see J-Los ass from cordinators booth.

***Coach McDaniels gives Mike a suprised stare***

Josh: Really?

Mike: Yea.

Josh: Damn dude You should go

Mike: I know man...Good working with you Josh.

Josh: Yea you too.

See it was a mutual agreement.

azbroncfan
01-19-2010, 09:00 PM
Exactly how did the offense and the play calling help keep the defense fresh and the opponent within range???

Sad to have to say it but it's a team game and one unit affects the others...Hello.

The Oakland game the Defense failed to step up and stop a terrible Oakland passing team after Denver's O had scored to go ahead. We already discussed this and whenever you let J. Russell beat you picking up 4th and longs in the 2 min drill it is a fail.

jhns
01-19-2010, 09:03 PM
You guys didn't know? Last year the offense killed us and now this year the defense killed us.

LOL....

You guys are funny.

OCBronco
01-19-2010, 09:13 PM
So you think replacing Nolan is the fastest way to improve the D?

No. But getting better players will certainly help. One of the reasons why the pass D ranking was so high (#3) was that, by the end of the season, teams didn't need to throw the ball in order to beat us. When teams are rushing for upwards of 200 yards a game, it's not hard to figure out where the problems are.

Apparently some of the players are behind the idea of promoting Martindale. This wouldn't be the craziest idea in the world, and it might result in a negligible dropoff in game planning.

Anyway, it's pointless to freak out about Nolan leaving until: 1) We get all the facts about why he left (and I wouldn't be surprised to see the Dolphins get charged with tampering), and 2) We see who's replacing him.

Durango
01-19-2010, 09:24 PM
So is Shanahan. Sad to see Nolan go. Now let's get some more good players in here.

I read a post on one of these Nolan threads in which someone argued the lack of continuity may be a red flag for FA's, so the Broncos may struggle landing premium talent unless they're willing to over-pay, and with the finances in question to some degree, that won't happen again. I don't even think the team will cough up the big bucks to keep one of the top talents they already have in Champ Bailey. I guess we'd better get used to 'make-do' with what we have, except for the middle-of-the-road FA's and a few draft choices.

Soul-Bronco
01-19-2010, 09:28 PM
this is good. nolan sucks anyway.

he had to coach in the pressbox because he's a p***Y

:spit: Thanks for the laugh dude, that was awesome

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 09:32 PM
Exactly how did the offense and the play calling help keep the defense fresh and the opponent within range???

Sad to have to say it but it's a team game and one unit affects the others...Hello.

Tell that to the Jets... what did they have, like 3 or 4 straight 3 and outs last game?

ZONA
01-19-2010, 10:42 PM
We simply lost the coach who improved our defense beyond our wildest dreams in one amazing season to unreconcilable "philisophical differences." What's the fuss?

You can't simply lay all the credit on Nolan's lap for the defensive turnaround, just as you can't lay all the blame on his lap for the defensive breakdowns at the end. McD did bring in some upgraded talent and I'm sure there are some things defensively that he worked along with Nolan on. Possibly defensive play design, and so on. Things could easily still improve on defense next year. It would not be the first time a coach has left a team and the following year that same team improved in that one area.

Don't lose hope my friend.

watermock
01-22-2010, 06:23 AM
lkjh


are a robot?

jhns
01-22-2010, 07:04 AM
It will be refreshing when McD is finally gone. All of the people here defending him will then trash him like no other. It will be funny to see the spins of why all of this stuff is suddenly bad for the team after all of you fight to the death trying to convince yourselves McDaniels is being smart. You just have to realize it is McDaniels that seems to want to fail.

Great offense? Well let's get rid of the QB, fight with the top target, and forget our really good young receiver! That should help! I know! We can start Kyle Orton and that will put us on track to being great! What? The defense went from 30 to 7? Wow, maybe we should get rid of the d coordinator and go with my other options!

Yeah, I would say you have to be a special person to think we are on the right track. The one part of the team that didn't regress now has a new coach, again. Great....

What will be bad is if Cutler ever puts it together. People will wake up and finally run McDaniels out of town for being such a jackass. Then there will be far worse fighting amongst Bronco fans. I would like to see McD run out of town but I think even I would have to leave all Bronco forums if Cutler starts playing well.