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View Full Version : Everyone that brings up 2-8 and wants to fire mcdaniels should take another look.


PaintballCLE
01-18-2010, 06:05 PM
So ill be the first Mcd supporter to point this out.....

6-0 giving up 7, 6, 3, 10, 17, and 23 for an average of 11 pts/game.


Then we lose 4 in a row....giving up 30, 28, 27, 32 for an average of 29.5/game

Then we win 2 more giving up 6 and 13 for an average of 9.5/game

Then we lose our last 4 giving up 28, 20, 30, 44 for an average of 30.5/game


so the season in total we gave up 10.6 in our wins and 29.9 in our losses.

It was the tale of 2 defenses that really cost us games this year.

Sure the offense wasnt up to par, but if you look at those considerable differences in defense, most offenses in the league would have finished with about the same record as we did.

And since people are blaming the offense we scored 20.4 ppg this year....... a mere 3 ppg less than last year

Stormontheplains
01-18-2010, 06:07 PM
So ill be the first Mcd supporter to point this out.....

6-0 giving up 7, 6, 3, 10, 17, and 23 for an average of 11 pts/game.


Then we lose 4 in a row....giving up 30, 28, 27, 32 for an average of 29.5/game

Then we win 2 more giving up 6 and 13 for an average of 9.5/game

Then we lose our last 4 giving up 28, 20, 30, 44 for an average of 30.5/game


so the season in total we gave up 10.6 in our wins and 29.9 in our losses.

It was the tale of 2 defenses that really cost us games this year.

Sure the offense wasnt up to par, but if you look at those considerable differences in defense, most offenses in the league would have finished with about the same record as we did.

Are you sure it wasn't the tale of 1 ****ty offense??

The MVPlaya
01-18-2010, 06:09 PM
Take that last number of 44 and turn it into 30 because 14 of those points were pick six's.

However, if you're defense is giving up damn near 30 points a game - you're not going to win even with the best offenses (Denver last year).

DBroncos4life
01-18-2010, 06:09 PM
Paging Mike Nolan, paging Mike Nolan you are to report under the bus as soon as possible.

Rohirrim
01-18-2010, 06:11 PM
The grapes were sour.

broncosteven
01-18-2010, 06:12 PM
Didn't we only avg 10 points per game during the 1st 4 game loseing streak?

I would like to see the Offensive #'s before blaming the D for the slideS.

bpc
01-18-2010, 06:13 PM
Paging Mike Nolan, paging Mike Nolan you are to report under the bus as soon as possible.

The retort of the day! :) Good one.

Lolad
01-18-2010, 06:16 PM
So ill be the first Mcd supporter to point this out.....

6-0 giving up 7, 6, 3, 10, 17, and 23 for an average of 11 pts/game.


Then we lose 4 in a row....giving up 30, 28, 27, 32 for an average of 29.5/game

Then we win 2 more giving up 6 and 13 for an average of 9.5/game

Then we lose our last 4 giving up 28, 20, 30, 44 for an average of 30.5/game


so the season in total we gave up 10.6 in our wins and 29.9 in our losses.

It was the tale of 2 defenses that really cost us games this year.

Sure the offense wasnt up to par, but if you look at those considerable differences in defense, most offenses in the league would have finished with about the same record as we did.

And since people are blaming the offense we scored 20.4 ppg this year....... a mere 3 ppg less than last year

I think in every game save for the Colts and Eagles our defense held teams to under 10 points going into halftime. Too many 3 and out's will make any team look good. Check our 1st KC game.

PaintballCLE
01-18-2010, 06:18 PM
PS, we won every game this year we gave up 19 points or less.......and lost every game (outside of the sd who scored at the end when it didnt matter) we gave up 20 or more.

broncosteven
01-18-2010, 06:25 PM
PS, we won every game this year we gave up 19 points or less.......and lost every game (outside of the sd who scored at the end when it didnt matter) we gave up 20 or more.

Hold teams to 19 points and you are going to win a lot of games.

We are still a Tip and 2 great catches by Marshall from being a 5 win team.

PaintballCLE
01-18-2010, 06:27 PM
Hold teams to 19 points and you are going to win a lot of games.

We are still a Tip and 2 great catches by Marshall from being a 5 win team.

agreed, and last year we were one bad call (sd), two missed fg's (no), etc from the same thing.

The MVPlaya
01-18-2010, 06:27 PM
Hold teams to 19 points and you are going to win a lot of games.

We are still a Tip and 2 great catches by Marshall from being a 5 win team.

You can say the colts are a couple passes from manning from being a second/3rd seed team.

Argument doesn't hold up well.

broncosteven
01-18-2010, 06:31 PM
You can say the colts are a couple passes from manning from being a second/3rd seed team.

Argument doesn't hold up well.

I am saying we are 3 plays from being on the losing side of 3 games we were able to win. I didn't mention the colts.

For the record, the TIP play in game 1, Marshalls game winning TD vs Cowboys and his TD vs NE. Take those plays away and this team wins 5 games.

The MVPlaya
01-18-2010, 06:34 PM
I am saying we are 3 plays from being on the losing side of 3 games we were able to win. I didn't mention the colts.

For the record, the TIP play in game 1, Marshalls game winning TD vs Cowboys and his TD vs NE. Take those plays away and this team wins 5 games.


Ok - but what is the point of this? EVERY season there will be GAMES that are decided one 1 or 2 plays, by EVERY team.

This is a pointless statement.

Chargers are 2 kicks away from being in the AFC championship game...

This type of sh1t is irrelevant.

broncosteven
01-18-2010, 06:36 PM
Ok - but what is the point of this? EVERY season there will be GAMES that are decided one 1 or 2 plays, by EVERY team.

This is a pointless statement.

Chargers are 2 kicks away from being in the AFC championship game...

This type of sh1t is irrelevant.

OK then what about the O only avg 10 points during the 1st losing streak? Makes it hard on a D to win when an O is only putting 3 or 7 on the board.

DBroncos4life
01-18-2010, 06:40 PM
Our O averaged 25.3 points per game during wins and 15.3 in losses. What a tale of two offenses. Who should we run out of town or throw under the bus for that oh wait it Dennison and Turner!!!!!!

Jason in LA
01-18-2010, 06:43 PM
Well at least the defense showed up 8 times this year. That's more than anybody can say for the offense.

I'm just saying.

The MVPlaya
01-18-2010, 06:43 PM
OK then what about the O only avg 10 points during the 1st losing streak? Makes it hard on a D to win when an O is only putting 3 or 7 on the board.

Yeah - I'm not denying that, but if you look deeper... we played 2 top defenses in Ravens and Steelers (no excuse, just saying that we didn't exactly just crumble on offense to ****ty defenses).

And then Orton pretty much missed a full game between the next 2 games (4 qtrs).

Redskins game we should have found a way to win REGARDLESS of the injury, there is no reason to give up that type of scoring to the Redskins. Considering 7 points was on that punt trick play, pretty pathetic (I guess you can blame special teams?)

Last 3 games, if the defense played to the caliber we were being touted as, we probably would have won.

It's hard to take scores and start saying, OH if the defense allowed less points we would have won. Because who knows, if we allowed less points, the whole game would have played out different, and this is vice versa too.

I see where you are coming from as far as not blaming the defense, as it shouldn't be fully blamed... but it is a FACT that we played worse as the season progressed/second half. Maybe teams began to figure out our scheme, or whatever it is... the defense didn't get the job done EITHER.

broncosteven
01-18-2010, 06:47 PM
Yeah - I'm not denying that, but if you look deeper... we played 2 top defenses in Ravens and Steelers (no excuse, just saying that we didn't exactly just crumble on offense to ****ty defenses).

And then Orton pretty much missed a full game between the next 2 games (4 qtrs).

Redskins game we should have found a way to win REGARDLESS of the injury, there is no reason to give up that type of scoring to the Redskins. Considering 7 points was on that punt trick play, pretty pathetic (I guess you can blame special teams?)

Last 3 games, if the defense played to the caliber we were being touted as, we probably would have won.

It's hard to take scores and start saying, OH if the defense allowed less points we would have won. Because who knows, if we allowed less points, the whole game would have played out different, and this is vice versa too.

I see where you are coming from as far as not blaming the defense, as it shouldn't be fully blamed... but it is a FACT that we played worse as the season progressed/second half. Maybe teams began to figure out our scheme, or whatever it is... the defense didn't get the job done EITHER.

I still think the O going 3 and out puts a lot more pressure on the D. The Indy game we were down 14 or 21 (I can't remember) before the 1st 1st down, the Eagles game is a blow out if the D doesn't turn it back on.

PaintballCLE
01-18-2010, 06:47 PM
Well at least the defense showed up 8 times this year. That's more than anybody can say for the offense.

I'm just saying.

we only averaged 3 less ppg this year than the self proclaimed greatest offense ever that mcd ****ed up last year.

The MVPlaya
01-18-2010, 06:47 PM
Well at least the defense showed up 8 times this year. That's more than anybody can say for the offense.

I'm just saying.

So the offense gets no credit for the wins?

The offense was the one that made the miraculous play in the Bengals game... AFTER the defense had given up the touchdown on the final drive, thus CHOKING.

27 points in the Browns game, 23 against the raiders, 20 against the Pats, 34 against the Chargers, 26 against the Giants, 37 against the Chiefs, 27 against the Eagles, and 24 against the Chiefs.

Not taking all the blame off the offense, but our defense also pretty much choked away the last 3 games of the season (Russell game winning drive from how far away? Really?). Eagles game, same thing choking at the very end. Chiefs...really?

The MVPlaya
01-18-2010, 06:50 PM
I still think the O going 3 and out puts a lot more pressure on the D. The Indy game we were down 14 or 21 (I can't remember) before the 1st 1st down, the Eagles game is a blow out if the D doesn't turn it back on.

It is, but this is all complementary football. You don't see the Jets crumbling because of their offenses inability to score/move the ball.

The Eagles game is a blow out if they didn't turn it back on...right, but shouldn't have it been on since 15:00 Q1?

PaintballCLE
01-18-2010, 06:51 PM
It is, but this is all complementary football. You don't see the Jets crumbling because of their offenses inability to score/move the ball.

The Eagles game is a blow out if they didn't turn it back on...right, but shouldn't have it been on since 15:00 Q1?

exactly the d "turned it on" after giving up 27 points........geee whiz

DBroncos4life
01-18-2010, 06:54 PM
we only averaged 3 less ppg this year than the self proclaimed greatest offense ever that mcd ****ed up last year.

Like I said in another thread the 370 points the 08 team put up would have placed us at 12th in the NFL this year. 326 we scored this year would have placed us at 24th. So if McD could have gotten us the same out of the O with Cutler it's pretty clear we would have been a better team on O then with Orton.

Jason in LA
01-18-2010, 06:54 PM
we only averaged 3 less ppg this year than the self proclaimed greatest offense ever that mcd ****ed up last year.

Last year's offense had issues. Averaging three points less than that is a problem.

Jason in LA
01-18-2010, 06:58 PM
So the offense gets no credit for the wins?

The offense was the one that made the miraculous play in the Bengals game... AFTER the defense had given up the touchdown on the final drive, thus CHOKING.

27 points in the Browns game, 23 against the raiders, 20 against the Pats, 34 against the Chargers, 26 against the Giants, 37 against the Chiefs, 27 against the Eagles, and 24 against the Chiefs.

Not taking all the blame off the offense, but our defense also pretty much choked away the last 3 games of the season (Russell game winning drive from how far away? Really?). Eagles game, same thing choking at the very end. Chiefs...really?

The offense was really bad against the Bengals, while the defense played great outside of one drive. I guess they should have pitched a shutout to get some credit.

I wasn't all that impressed with the O against the Raiders, and getting points against the Pats was like pulling teeth. That 34 points against the Chargers was nice. But remember two of those TDs came off of returns.

The offense wasn't good this year. Plain and simple.

Gob
01-18-2010, 07:02 PM
Last year's offense had issues. Averaging three points less than that is a problem.

No kidding. I thought historic late season collapses, subpar scoring offenses, .500 records, constant change at DC and ignoring defensive line talent were good reasons for firing Shanny. One year later, same story but different performance standards for the HC.

oubronco
01-18-2010, 07:09 PM
So ill be the first Mcd supporter to point this out.....

6-0 giving up 7, 6, 3, 10, 17, and 23 for an average of 11 pts/game.


Then we lose 4 in a row....giving up 30, 28, 27, 32 for an average of 29.5/game

Then we win 2 more giving up 6 and 13 for an average of 9.5/game

Then we lose our last 4 giving up 28, 20, 30, 44 for an average of 30.5/game


so the season in total we gave up 10.6 in our wins and 29.9 in our losses.

It was the tale of 2 defenses that really cost us games this year.

Sure the offense wasnt up to par, but if you look at those considerable differences in defense, most offenses in the league would have finished with about the same record as we did.

And since people are blaming the offense we scored 20.4 ppg this year....... a mere 3 ppg less than last year

the inept offense had nothing to do with it................Right

Popps
01-18-2010, 07:58 PM
Good thread, Bleed.

Fairly obvious what happened. We had troubles on both sides of the ball in the 2nd half. Neither is exempt from criticism and BOTH had troubles irrespective of the other's performance.

broncolife
01-18-2010, 09:17 PM
So the offense gets no credit for the wins?

The offense was the one that made the miraculous play in the Bengals game... AFTER the defense had given up the touchdown on the final drive, thus CHOKING.

27 points in the Browns game, 23 against the raiders, 20 against the Pats, 34 against the Chargers, 26 against the Giants, 37 against the Chiefs, 27 against the Eagles, and 24 against the Chiefs.

Not taking all the blame off the offense, but our defense also pretty much choked away the last 3 games of the season (Russell game winning drive from how far away? Really?). Eagles game, same thing choking at the very end. Chiefs...really?

Cin-


20-6 plays for 23 yards and a punt
16-3 and out for4 yards
44-3 and out for -1 yard
16-3 and out for 4 yards
20-3 and out for 8 yards
18-9 play 52 yard field goal drive
14-3 and out for 3 yards
5-8 plays for 34 yards and a punt
34-5 plays for 34 yards and a field goal
35-10 plays for 23 yards and a punt
13-miracle pass for 87 yard td

average O field position=21.3
average O drive=24.2
number of possesions=11
3 and outs=5
O Turnovers=0
D Turnovers=3
Points gained by D turnovers=0
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=0
Top=26:33
Top gained by turnovers=2:40
1:27 Fumble-Den44-3 and out for -1 yard
1:13 Int-Den20-3 and out for 8 yards
00:00 Int Tony Sheftler pick with no time left.

Without the Ds help O points = 12

Cle-

20- 7 plays for 23 yards and a punt
Clev 9- 3 plays for 9 yards and a td
19- 13 plays for 76 yards and a field goal
20-5 plays for 10 yards and a punt
6-16 plays for 73 yards and a missed field goal
Cle38- 6 plays for 18 yards and a field goal
12-9 plays for 69 yards and a missed field goal
18-6 plays for a 82 yard td drive
33-3 plays for a 67 yard td drive
31-9 plays for 37 yards. stopped

average O field Position= 31.2
average O drive= 46.4
number of possessions=10
3 and outs=0
O Turnover=0
D Turnovers=3
Points gained by D turnovers=10
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=0
Top=32:44
Top gained by D turnovers=4:14
1:11 Fumble- Clev 9- 3 plays for 9 yards and a td
2:55 Fumble- Cle38- 6 plays for 18 yards and a field goal
:08 Int at Den 6 Orton takes a knee

Without the Ds help O points = 17

Oak-

31-12 plays 68 yard drive stopped at the 1 for not points
Oak 23- 6 plays for 23 yards and a td
Oak 34- 3 and out for 4 yards and a field goal
21-11 plays for 76 and a field goal
20-8 plays for 80 yard td drive
6-16 plays for a 91 yard drive for a field goal
oak 49- 3 and out for 1 yard
44- 3 and out for 5 yards
oak 44-clock ran out 26 yards

average O Field position= 41.5
average O drive=41.3
number of O Possesions=9
3 and outs=3
O Turnovers=1
D Turnovers=3
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=0
Fumble at Den 16 luckily the D forced another TO
Points gained by D turnovers=13
Top=36:15
Top gained by D turnovers=11:42
2:46 Int at Oak 23- 6 plays for 23 yards and a td
:48 Int at Oak 34- 3 and out for 4 yards and a field goal
8:08 Fumble at Den 6-16 plays for a 91 yard drive for a field goal
Without the Ds help O points =10

Dal-

7- 3 and out gain of 0
30- 3 and out gain of 0
20- 6 plays for 20 yards and a punt
Dal 9- 1 play for a 9 yard td
12-9 plays for 36 yard and a punt
21-fumble, but d saves us and gets a pick at the 6
6-7 plays for 39 yards and a punt
8-12 plays for 62 yards and stuffed on 4th and 1
37-6 plays for 20 yards and a punt
25- 7 plays for 75 yards and a field goal
27- 3 play 73 yard td drive

average O field position=25.8
average O drive = 30.3
number of possessions=11
3 and outs=2
O Turnovers=1
D Turnovers=2
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=0
-Fumble at Den26 luckly the D saves us again and gets an Int
Points gained by D turnovers=7
Top=26:53
Top gained by D turnovers=4:01
:06 Fumble at Dal 9- 1 play for a 9 yard td
3:55 Int a Den 6-7 plays for 39 yards and a punt
Without the Ds help O points =10

Ne-

20- 9 plays for 50 yards and a missed field goal
19- 3 plays for 16 yards and fumble
20- 3 and out for 9 yards
38- 5 plays for 22 yards and a punt
10- 10 play 79 yard td drive
28- 12 plays for 66 yards and a field goal
30- 8 plays for 28 yards and a punt
2- 12 play 98 yard td drive
26- 3 and out for 6 yards
Ne 45- 3 and out for 5 yards
20- 11 plays for 58 yards and field goal

average O field position=24.3
average O drive=39.7
number of possessions=11
3 and outs=3
O Turnovers=1
D Turnovers=0
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=3
-Fumble at Den 43.4 plays for 8 yards for a Field goal.
Points gained by D turnovers=0
Top=36:29
Top gained by D turnovers=0
Without the Ds help O points =20

SD-

26- 7 plays for 18 yards and a punt
22- 13 plays for 62 yards and a field goal
25- 6 plays for 41 yards and a missed field goal
26- 4 and out for 28 yards
23- 9 play 77 yard td drive
SD 47-10 plays for 36 yards and a field goal
29- 8 plays for 32 yards and a punt
38- 5 play 62 yard td drive
45- clock ran out

average O field position=31.8
average O drive= 44.5 didnt add the last drive
number of possessions= 9
3 and out= 0
O Turnovers=0
D Turnovers=1
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=0
Points gained by D turnovers=3 royal returns gave 14 in this one
Top=30:43
Top gained by D turnovers=3:38
3:38 Fumble at SD 47-10 plays for 36 yards and a field goal
Without the Ds and sp help O points =17

Balt-
31- 3 and out for 1 yard
20- 3 and out for 3 yards
20- 4 plays for 11 yards and fumbled at our own 23
12- 4 and out for 17 yards
24- 4 and out for 6 yards
19- 11 plays for 36 yards and a punt
14- 10 plays for a 86 yard td. got a little help with 3 penalties
22- 3 and out for 8 yards
20- 5 and out 24 yards
24- 3 and out for -10 yards
20- 9 plays for 52 yards clock runs out

average O field position=20.5
average O drive= 21.2
number of possessions=11
3 and out= 4
O Turnovers=1
D Turnovers=0
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=3
Fumble at Den 23 for a 3 and out field goal
Points gained by D turnovers=0
Top=26:23
Top gained by D turnovers=0
Without the Ds help O points =7

Pits-
22- 9 plays for 56 yards and a field goal
18- 8 plays for 30 yards and a punt
23- 4 plays for 8 yards and a pick 6
21- 10 plays for 28 yards and a punt
16- 7 plays for 29 yards and a punt
40- 4 and out for 15 yards
10- 4 and out for 24 yards
33- 3 and for 3 yards
25- 2 plays for O yards and Int
26- 3 and out for 0 yards
20- 4 plays for 17 yards and Int

average O field position=23
average O drive= 19
number of possessions= 11
3 and out= 2
O Turnovers=2
D Turnovers=2
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=7
-Int at Den25. 3 plays for a td
-Int at Den 40. Kneel down
Offensive Points gained by D turnovers=0 D got the 7
Top=26:57
Top gained by D turnovers=2:22
00:00 54 yard fumble returned for a td
2:22 int at the Den10- 4 and out for 24 yards
Without the Ds help O points = -4 pick 6 included

Wash-

33- 4 plays for 67 yard td drive
40- 4 plays for 21 yards and a fumble
25- 1 play for 75 yard td
15- 5 and out for 1 yard
31- 3 and out for 0 yards
11- 18 plays for 82 yards and a field goal
SIMMS IN
28- 9 plays for 24 yards and a punt
31- 3 and out for -5 yards
40- 3 plays for 14 yards and a Int
27- 3 and out for 0 yards
26- 3 and out for -7 yards

average O field position=27.9
average O drive= all 24.7, Orton only =41, Simms only=5.2 lol
number of possessions=11
3 and out= all 5,Orton only=1, Simms only=4
O Turnovers=2
D Turnovers=0
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=7
-fumble at the was31. 3 and out
-Int at was 40.11 plays for a td
Offensive Points gained by D turnovers=0
Top=24:17
Top gained by D turnovers=0
Without the Ds help O points =17

SD-

SIMMS STARTING

26- 8 plays for 57 yards and a fumble
20- 3 and out for -7 yards
20- 3 and out for -1 yard
ORTON IN
38- 4 plays for 58 yards and a fumble into the endzone
45- 1 play for an int
36- 9 plays for 59 yards and a field goal
20- 7 plays for 40 yards and stopped on 4th down
20- 3 and out for -7 yards
18- 11 plays for 63 yards and stopped on 4th down
20- 3 and out
20- 1 play for 9 yards out of time


average O field position= 25.7
average O drive= all 26.2. Orton only=30.4 Simms only= 16.3 Didnt count last drive of the game
number of possessions= 11
3 and out= 4
O Turnovers=3
D Turnovers=0
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=7
-fumbled at our 31.9 play 69 yard td drive
-fumbled and touchbacked to our 20.3 and out punt
-int at sd 42.4 and out
Offensive Points gained by D turnovers=0
Top=22:08
Top gained by D turnovers=0
Without the Ds help O points =3

Nyg-
14- 3 and out for 6 yards
16- 13 plays for 76 yards and a field goal
29- 12 plays for 57 yards and a field goal
Nyg38- 4 plays for 38 yards and a td
49- 6 plays for 20 yards and a field goal
11- 4 plays for 9 yards and a knee
21- 5 plays for 50 yards and a int
25- 5 and out for 16 yards
36- 8 plays for 64 yards and a td
Nyg36- 9 plays for 30 yards and a field goal
Nyg48- 3 and out for 5 yards


average O field position=34.4
average O drive= 33.7
number of possessions= 11
3 and out= 2
O Turnovers=1
D Turnovers=3
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=3
-int at nyg40. 9 plays for a field goal
Offensive Points gained by D turnovers=10
Top=35:30
Top gained by D turnovers=6:52
2:00 Fumbled at Nyg38- 4 plays for 38 yards and a td
3:59 Fumbled at Nyg36- 9 plays for 30 yards and a field goal
:53Int at Nyg 48
Without the Ds help O points =16

Kc-

33- 5 plays for 53 yards and int in the endzone
37- 8 plays for a 63 yard td drive
21- 4 and out for 11 yards
20- 8 plays for a 80 yard td drive
39- 3 and out for 4 yards
35- 5 plays for 14 yards and a fumble
kc26- 3 and out for 1 yard and field goal
kc21- 4 plays for 21 yards and a td
kc42- 5 plays for 22 yards and a field goal
24- 3 and out for 3 yards
4- 2 plays for 3 yards and a fumble
20- 7 play 80 yard td drive
kc41- 4 and out for 21 yards and a field goal
5-10 plays for 39 yards to run out the clock


average O field position=36.2
average O drive= 29.6
number of possessions= 14
3 and out= 3
O Turnovers=3
D Turnovers=3
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=10
-int touchbacked to kc20. 3 and out
-fumble at the 50.4 and out for a field goal.
-fumble at our 4. Easy td
Offensive Points gained by D turnovers=10, D scored 7 by themselves.
Top=35:55
Top gained by D turnovers=4:31
1:50 int at kc21- 4 plays for 21 yards and a td
2:41 int at kc42-5 plays for 22 yards and a field goal
00:00 30 yard fumble return for a td
Without the Ds help O points =27 not giving the fake field goal eventhough it set up our O with awesome field position

Ind-

11- 3 and out for 7 yards
20- 7 plays for 39 yards stopped on 4th down
13- 5 and out for 23 yards
20- 12 plays for a 80 yard td drive
46- 3 and out for 9 yards
37- 4 plays for 18 yards time runs out
19- 3 and out for 8 yards
34- 5 and out for 21 yards
Ind37- 6 plays for 17 yards and Int
43- 7 plays for 34 yards and a missed field goal
Ind24- 4 and out for 14 yards and a field goal
32- 11 plays for a 68 yard td drive
20- 4 and out for 8 yards. stopped on 4th down


average O field position=33.3
average O drive= 26.6
number of possessions= 13
3 and out= 3
O Turnovers= 1
D Turnovers= 3
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=0
-int at ind 14. 3 and out
Offensive Points gained by D turnovers=3
Top=31:27
Top gained by D turnovers=4:07
:29 int 37- 4 plays for 18 time runs out
2:36 int at Ind37- 6 plays for 17 yards and Int
1:02 Ind24- 4 and out for 14 yards and a field goal
Without the Ds help O points =13

Oak-

35-10 plays for 60 yards and a field goal
Oak41- 4 and out for 16 yards and a field goal
39- 5 and out for 20 yards
20- 4 and out for 19 yards
20- 3 and out for 4 yards
20- 3 and out for 8 yards
20- 12 plays for 47 yards and a field goal
50- 8 plays for a 50 yard td drive
1- 3 and out for 9 yards
19- 9 plays for 78 yards and a field goal
24- 3 and out -9 yards
22- 4 plays for 32 yards out of time

average O field position=27.4
average O drive= 27.8
number of possessions=12
3 and out= 4
O Turnovers=0
D Turnovers=2
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=0
Offensive Points gained by D turnovers=10
Top=28:34
Top gained by D turnovers=6:40
2:57 int at Oak41- 4 and out for 16 yards and a field goal
3:43 fumbled at the 50- 8 plays for a 50 yard td drive
Without the Ds help O points =9

Phi-

32-3 and out for 0 yards
32-3 and out for 1 yard
22-3 and out for 7 yards
30-12 play drive for a 70 yard td drive
30-3 and out for 7 yards
25- halftime
50- 9 plays for 35 yards and a field goal
23-6 plays for37 yards and a Orton Int
Phi25-5 plays for 25 yards and a td
Phi16-2 plays for 16 yards and a td
Phi49-3 and out for -3 yards
47-3 and out for 8 yards
44-7 plays for 28 yards and a field goal
9-3 and out for 8 yards

average O field position=42.6
average O drive= 18.3
number of possessions= 13 not counting halftime drive.
3 and out= 7
O Turnovers=1
D Turnovers=3
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=0
Offensive Points gained by D and Sp turnovers=10

Top=29:17
Top gained by D turnovers=6:31
1:49- 3 and out
4:21 -Champ int at 50. 9 plays for a field goal
:21-fumble recovered by reid at Phi16.2 plays for a td
Without the Ds help O points =17

Kc-

20- 3 and out for 9 yards
16- 9 plays for 32 yards and a punt
47- 3 and out for 2 yards
5- 10 plays for a 95 yard td drive
14- 4 and out for 35 yards
19- 11 play drive for 92 yards and a field goal
27- 4 play 73 yard drive for a td
24- pick 6 game was Kc20-17Den before it
27- 5 plays out for 29 yards
Kc3- 3 plays for 3 yards and a td
15- pick 6
20- 6 plays and out for 20 yards
23- 11 plays for 54 yards and a pick
7- 6 plays for 54 yards out of time


average O field position=25.7
average O drive= 36.5
number of possessions= 14
3 and out= 2
O Turnovers=3
D Turnovers=2
Opponents Points gained by O turnovers=14
Offensive Points gained by D turnovers=14
Top=33:03
Top gained by D turnovers=5:19
4:27-int at Den5 10 plays for a td
:52-Law with a pick to KC3. Easy td
Without the Ds help O points = -4 counting pick 6s

Without the Ds help our O is nothing. Even the last 3 games they D did good enough to win the games if they had a compentent offense behind them.


Was going to add some more stats and do last years O and compare them on a new thread, but after doing this heeeelll no.

DBroncos4life
01-18-2010, 09:25 PM
The only thing this thread does is show when McD started messing with Nolan's schemes and wanting him to do things he doesn't want to do like be more aggressive. :poke:

watermock
01-18-2010, 09:54 PM
It's pointless.

The outrage is so deafening, it's pointless.

watermock
01-18-2010, 09:56 PM
The only thing this thread does is show when McD started messing with Nolan's schemes and wanting him to do things he doesn't want to do like be more aggressive. :poke:


WTF? How do you know?

watermock
01-18-2010, 09:57 PM
Nolan wanted OUT that is confirmed.

WTF, it's like rats abadoning sinking ship.

Buy a clue.

BTW, I bought you one year ago.

This ship is done....

Jason in LA
01-19-2010, 08:51 AM
There were issues on both sides of the ball. But the D was very good for a good portion of the season. The O was never really good. The D was much better than the O. Really thinking about it, if the D had played at the same level as the O, this team would have sucked really bad. Like 4 wins bad.

Rohirrim
01-19-2010, 09:00 AM
I'm going to stick with the philosophy that we need better players at a few positions to really get somewhere - specifically LG, C, and DT. A better rush end wouldn't hurt either. I really think it's the lines. I thought the same thing under Shanny. Until we fix those, the rest is window-dressing.

Beantown Bronco
01-19-2010, 09:00 AM
I now know I've seen it all when someone is trying to blame the offense for the giving up of 21 points to the Colts after their first three drives, none of which came on a short field.

PRBronco
01-19-2010, 09:06 AM
I wish I could know more about this "McD preferred to blitz but Nolan wanted to read and react" business. If that's true, I'm more optimistic than usual for next season. I was a huge Nolan fan, obviously. But let's face it. We should have lost that Bengals game, and were in that position because the defense sat back and stopped blitzing at the end of the game. The only reason we won in SD was because of super aggressive blitzing. When the defense sat back and tried to cover, it couldn't. Our linebackers weren't talented enough and our secondary wasn't fast enough.

Gob
01-19-2010, 09:13 AM
I now know I've seen it all when someone is trying to blame the offense for the giving up of 21 points to the Colts after their first three drives, none of which came on a short field.

Who gets the blame in the Pats/Colts game?

Jason in LA
01-19-2010, 09:15 AM
I'm going to stick with the philosophy that we need better players at a few positions to really get somewhere - specifically LG, C, and DT. A better rush end wouldn't hurt either. I really think it's the lines. I thought the same thing under Shanny. Until we fix those, the rest is window-dressing.

It's a balance between coaching and players. A winning team has both. Teams lacking in either area are going to struggle. I agree with you that the Broncos need more talented players. But at the same time, we really don't know if McD is a good head coach or not. He's going to have to prove himself fast or he won't be around long. If he doesn't turn out to be a good coach then talented players will only take this team so far. Look at a team like the Chargers, who we keep hearing that they are so talented. Norv isn't a good head coach and he hasn't done much with that team.

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 09:17 AM
Our O averaged 25.3 points per game during wins and 15.3 in losses. What a tale of two offenses. Who should we run out of town or throw under the bus for that oh wait it Dennison and Turner!!!!!!

This kind of **** is hilarious. Dennison and Turner were run out of town...:spit:

It had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that two former coaches offered them jobs in systems they have worked in for MANY years.

Beantown Bronco
01-19-2010, 09:28 AM
Who gets the blame in the Pats/Colts game?

Huh?

Rohirrim
01-19-2010, 09:30 AM
It's a balance between coaching and players. A winning team has both. Teams lacking in either area are going to struggle. I agree with you that the Broncos need more talented players. But at the same time, we really don't know if McD is a good head coach or not. He's going to have to prove himself fast or he won't be around long. If he doesn't turn out to be a good coach then talented players will only take this team so far. Look at a team like the Chargers, who we keep hearing that they are so talented. Norv isn't a good head coach and he hasn't done much with that team.

I get the feeling there are a lot of "me first" guys on that team, and a bunch of whiners. Like I said in another thread, once the Jets took the lead I turned to my son and said, "Watch the Chargers fall apart now." And they did, with stupid penalties, and frustration, and basic childishness. They did the same thing under Schotty. That "team personality" was there before Norv. When your star QB is a punk, it must be a difficult coaching situation.

We don't know if McD is a good coach or not. True. I'm definitely not wild about his playcalling. But I'm not sure that his playcalling isn't limited by the players he has. Maybe he'd like to do more but feels that he can't at this point in time? He kept going for those third and ones on the ground almost as if hoping his line was better than it is - and they couldn't get it done. That must be frustrating for a coach. What coach wants to be forced into the situation where he has to pass, or call some trick play, on third and one? Did you see the Jets on that final third and one against the Chargers to seal the game? They blew them apart. That's what you have to have.

Maybe the whole Nolan thing is McD wants a blitzing attack and Nolan didn't want to go there. Philosophical difference? I don't know. I do know that we are weak on the lines, and in football, that's the last place you want weakness. In fact, I attribute the second half collapses the Broncos have been having for years to that one factor more than any other.

I've been saying the same thing for years. Where's the beef?

Gob
01-19-2010, 09:44 AM
Huh?

Maybe I misunderstood what you guys were arguing about, but I thought you were blaming the D for the Colts game loss, probably in support of us letting go of Nolan and possibly replacing him with Pees. Since the Pats D gave up 34 points including 21 in the 4th quarter, I was wondering if you felt Pees Pats D was any better against the Colts then ours.

Beantown Bronco
01-19-2010, 09:55 AM
Maybe I misunderstood what you guys were arguing about, but I thought you were blaming the D for the Colts game loss, probably in support of us letting go of Nolan and possibly replacing him with Pees. Since the Pats D gave up 34 points including 21 in the 4th quarter, I was wondering if you felt Pees Pats D was any better against the Colts then ours.

I'm not going to use one game to make an entire blanket statement about coaching. That would be foolish.

Though, since you bring up that game, I will say this: the Pats defense wasn't exactly helped out by the refs giving Indy two huge (and questionable) pass interference calls that resulted in about 50 yards on two TD drives, and by the offense giving up the ball on 4 downs around the 20 yard line.

barryr
01-19-2010, 10:09 AM
So ill be the first Mcd supporter to point this out.....

6-0 giving up 7, 6, 3, 10, 17, and 23 for an average of 11 pts/game.


Then we lose 4 in a row....giving up 30, 28, 27, 32 for an average of 29.5/game

Then we win 2 more giving up 6 and 13 for an average of 9.5/game

Then we lose our last 4 giving up 28, 20, 30, 44 for an average of 30.5/game


so the season in total we gave up 10.6 in our wins and 29.9 in our losses.

It was the tale of 2 defenses that really cost us games this year.

Sure the offense wasnt up to par, but if you look at those considerable differences in defense, most offenses in the league would have finished with about the same record as we did.

And since people are blaming the offense we scored 20.4 ppg this year....... a mere 3 ppg less than last year

Great job of pointing all that out!

Gob
01-19-2010, 10:19 AM
I'm not going to use one game to make an entire blanket statement about coaching. That would be foolish.

Though, since you bring up that game, I will say this: the Pats defense wasn't exactly helped out by the refs giving Indy two huge (and questionable) pass interference calls that resulted in about 50 yards on two TD drives, and by the offense giving up the ball on 4 downs around the 20 yard line.

Would I be right in guessing that an acceptable sample size is half a season?
Obviously of course, it would have to be the later half, because while total team performance can only be judged taking the full year into account (can't say 2-8, its 8-8), defensive performance can be judged by halves, and its down the stretch that counts.

WolfpackGuy
01-19-2010, 10:24 AM
A lot of those games the offense probably had more 3 and outs than points scored.

Watch about 10 minutes of either the Ravens, Steelers, or Chuggers games...

Popps
01-19-2010, 10:38 AM
A lot of those games the offense probably had more 3 and outs than points scored.

Watch about 10 minutes of either the Ravens, Steelers, or Chuggers games...

That's the thing.

Just like the 2005 AFCCG... you can't just give a free pass to a defense that gives up 30 fuggin' points in a half just because your offense started out slowly. You field a defense to stop teams and keep you in games, regardless of what the offense does. We all know that each affects the other, but there's a point when it's not an excuse.

When you can't stop Jamarcus Russell coming in cold off of the bench, you've got problems.



DISCLAIMER: I liked Nolan. (Before the idiots get started.)

HEAV
01-19-2010, 10:39 AM
I wish I could know more about this "McD preferred to blitz but Nolan wanted to read and react" business. If that's true, I'm more optimistic than usual for next season. I was a huge Nolan fan, obviously. But let's face it. We should have lost that Bengals game, and were in that position because the defense sat back and stopped blitzing at the end of the game. The only reason we won in SD was because of super aggressive blitzing. When the defense sat back and tried to cover, it couldn't. Our linebackers weren't talented enough and our secondary wasn't fast enough.


Well the Raider (@ Denver) game the defense stop blitz'n late and allowed Jafat to move the ball.

The Philly game was mared by the lack of covering the TE and letting big plays early get the team down on the score board.

So the late game adjustments did take place. Denver adjusted to the Colts,Eagles and Radiers.

Maybe McDaniels is/was looking for more consistant pass rush and wasn't seeing it on film.

It's not liek the minut the offense was of the field Josh was then coaching the defense or watching the defense play. The minute Kyle came off the field he and McDaniels would sit and go over the plays and film on the bench.

Nolan was running the defense from above, while McDaniels was either talking with the QB,teaching the rookie back... or screaming at his entire offense.

Again I like Nolan, but he had more control over the defense then most DC's have on other teams.

As far as Pees, it's natural too assume that McDaniels rather go with a known person that has had succes in the league.

Cito Pelon
01-19-2010, 02:13 PM
So ill be the first Mcd supporter to point this out.....

6-0 giving up 7, 6, 3, 10, 17, and 23 for an average of 11 pts/game.


Then we lose 4 in a row....giving up 30, 28, 27, 32 for an average of 29.5/game

Then we win 2 more giving up 6 and 13 for an average of 9.5/game

Then we lose our last 4 giving up 28, 20, 30, 44 for an average of 30.5/game


so the season in total we gave up 10.6 in our wins and 29.9 in our losses.

It was the tale of 2 defenses that really cost us games this year.

Sure the offense wasnt up to par, but if you look at those considerable differences in defense, most offenses in the league would have finished with about the same record as we did.

And since people are blaming the offense we scored 20.4 ppg this year....... a mere 3 ppg less than last year

This is a fair assessment. It sure would have been nice to have a more productive O (and ST's), but the D played poorly in that 2-8 stretch. Godawful amount of rushing yds given up.

Maybe McD meddled with the D in that stretch, I don't know, probably never will.

Gob
01-19-2010, 06:22 PM
That's the thing.

Just like the 2005 AFCCG... you can't just give a free pass to a defense that gives up 30 fuggin' points in a half just because your offense started out slowly. You field a defense to stop teams and keep you in games, regardless of what the offense does. We all know that each affects the other, but there's a point when it's not an excuse.

When you can't stop Jamarcus Russell coming in cold off of the bench, you've got problems.



DISCLAIMER: I liked Nolan. (Before the idiots get started.)

Nolan's season and Coyer's, not a bad comparison. Hope the change of DC solves the line play better this time compared to last.

mr007
01-19-2010, 06:26 PM
we only averaged 3 less ppg this year than the self proclaimed greatest offense ever that mcd ****ed up last year.

yeah I'm sure a +15 difference in defensive turnovers coupled with better field position and defensive scores makes absolutely no difference on offensive stats....

strafen
01-19-2010, 06:26 PM
Paging Mike Nolan, paging Mike Nolan you are to report under the bus as soon as possible.No kidding!
I wonder what took them so long to throw Nolan under the bus! ROFL!

colonelbeef
01-19-2010, 06:41 PM
Are you sure it wasn't the tale of 1 ****ty offense??

lulz :giggle:

broncosteven
01-19-2010, 07:27 PM
This is a fair assessment. It sure would have been nice to have a more productive O (and ST's), but the D played poorly in that 2-8 stretch. Godawful amount of rushing yds given up.

Maybe McD meddled with the D in that stretch, I don't know, probably never will.

The Special teams dropped off sharply the 2nd half of the season also. All we had was one good game out of Royal returning a Punt and kick for TDs after that they disappeared.

I thought from what I read about McD last year all the facets of the game would get attention and no stone would be left uncovered. I saw that in the 1st 6 games but it sure seemed to me like they never came back after the Bye. I sure hope the attitude changes at Dove Valley and they play a full season next year.

PaintballCLE
01-19-2010, 08:36 PM
yeah I'm sure a +15 difference in defensive turnovers coupled with better field position and defensive scores makes absolutely no difference on offensive stats....

very true, but that still doesnt explain the huge difference in points given up from the wins and losses.

Cito Pelon
01-19-2010, 10:20 PM
It's a balance between coaching and players. A winning team has both. Teams lacking in either area are going to struggle. I agree with you that the Broncos need more talented players. But at the same time, we really don't know if McD is a good head coach or not. He's going to have to prove himself fast or he won't be around long. If he doesn't turn out to be a good coach then talented players will only take this team so far. Look at a team like the Chargers, who we keep hearing that they are so talented. Norv isn't a good head coach and he hasn't done much with that team.

I thought you already decided he sucked? Sure seemed like that was your conclusion long ago.

Cito Pelon
01-19-2010, 10:33 PM
The Special teams dropped off sharply the 2nd half of the season also. All we had was one good game out of Royal returning a Punt and kick for TDs after that they disappeared.

I thought from what I read about McD last year all the facets of the game would get attention and no stone would be left uncovered. I saw that in the 1st 6 games but it sure seemed to me like they never came back after the Bye. I sure hope the attitude changes at Dove Valley and they play a full season next year.

Yeah, you and me and lots of others.

Taco John
01-19-2010, 10:51 PM
It was the tale of 2 defenses that really cost us games this year.



Are you sure it wasn't the tale of 1 ****ty offense??



Point: Stormontheplains.

I have a hard time understanding why people throw a great defense under the bus when the offense can't do anything to balance the table for them. The same thing happened with the Coyer defense, which was on a record pace until they finally broke down due to the same problem: an offense that couldn't pull their weight on the score board and game clock.

Yeah, the defense broke down. I mean: duh. Of course they broke down. The depth wasn't there to keep that act up all season. At some point, you've got to get those guys off the field to rest.

Cito Pelon
01-19-2010, 11:04 PM
Point: Stormontheplains.

I have a hard time understanding why people throw a great defense under the bus when the offense can't do anything to balance the table for them. The same thing happened with the Coyer defense, which was on a record pace until they finally broke down due to the same problem: an offense that couldn't pull their weight on the score board and game clock.

Yeah, the defense broke down. I mean: duh. Of course they broke down. The depth wasn't there to keep that act up all season. At some point, you've got to get those guys off the field to rest.

A "great defense" doesn't give up 250 yds rushing to the Raiders, 315 yds rushing to the Chiefs, both at Mile High. A "great defense" doesn't give up 21 pts to the Colts and 27 pts to the Eagles in the first half.

You better reconfigure that argument of yours, TJ. You might impress some of our weaker posters and the pro-Shanny/anti-McD crowd, but yer not gonna impress the stronger posters.

Jason in LA
01-19-2010, 11:14 PM
I thought you already decided he sucked? Sure seemed like that was your conclusion long ago.

Nope, you must have me confused with someone else, or you thought that I was in the fire McD camp, which I never was. I have been critical of McD, but I'm against the thought of firing the guy. It's silly to fire a coach before he can prove what he can do. Even though I don't like certain things that happened this year I wouldn't say that it proves that he can't coach. Getting rid of him would mean starting over again, which I think is foolish.

I have always been in the middle. At this point I'm not pro or con McD. I'm waiting another season to see what he can or can't do.

My major issue was with Orton. I thought he sucked before the season started, and he did nothing to change that opinion. I'm all for keeping McD, but I'd be all for getting another QB.

Taco John
01-19-2010, 11:24 PM
A "great defense" doesn't give up 250 yds rushing to the Raiders, 315 yds rushing to the Chiefs, both at Mile High. A "great defense" doesn't give up 21 pts to the Colts and 27 pts to the Eagles in the first half.

You better reconfigure that argument of yours, TJ. You might impress some of our weaker posters and the pro-Shanny/anti-McD crowd, but yer not gonna impress the stronger posters.


I think that's evidence that the locker room was lost at that point. I think they came out and battled the Eagles out of pride showing that they had that potential still. But the Raiders games and the Chiefs games are an indictment of a coach that lost his locker room. Which is apparently why Nolan is leaving.

I think that the doubts about whether a screaming kid coach can hold a locker room together over a 16 game season are well founded.

DivineLegion
01-19-2010, 11:51 PM
So ill be the first Mcd supporter to point this out.....

6-0 giving up 7, 6, 3, 10, 17, and 23 for an average of 11 pts/game.


Then we lose 4 in a row....giving up 30, 28, 27, 32 for an average of 29.5/game

Then we win 2 more giving up 6 and 13 for an average of 9.5/game

Then we lose our last 4 giving up 28, 20, 30, 44 for an average of 30.5/game


so the season in total we gave up 10.6 in our wins and 29.9 in our losses.

It was the tale of 2 defenses that really cost us games this year.

Sure the offense wasnt up to par, but if you look at those considerable differences in defense, most offenses in the league would have finished with about the same record as we did.

And since people are blaming the offense we scored 20.4 ppg this year....... a mere 3 ppg less than last year


Week 1 86 yards rushing 12-7 W (Bengals 86 yards)
Week 2: 186 yards rushing 27-6 W (Browns 54 yards)
Week 3: 215 yards rushing 23-3 W (Raiders 95 yards)
Week 4: 116 yards rushing 17-10 W (Cowboys 74)
Week 5: 103 yards rushing 20-17 W (Patriots 98 yards) We passed for 100 more yards in this game
Week 6: 101 yards rushing 34-23 W (Chargers 73 yards)
Week 7: 66 yards rushing 30-7 L (Ravens 125)
Week 8: 27 yards rushing 28-10 L (Steelers 172)
Week 9: 120 yards rushing 17-27 L (Redskins 174)
Week 10: 115 yards rushing 32-3 L (Chargers 203)
Week 11: 138 yards rushing 26-6 W (Giants 57)
Week 12: 245 yards rushing 44-13 W (Chiefs 94)
Week 13: 95 yards rushing 16-28 L (Colts 92) We went 2-4 in the redzone, Peyton and his boys went 4-4...thats the difference in this game. Oh and the Colts were the worst rushing team in the league last year.
Week 14: 80 yards rushing 20-19 L (Raiders 241)
Week 15: 70 yards rushing 30-27 L (Eagles 105)
Week 16 84 yards rushing 44-24 L (Chiefs 317)


I agree but does anyone see a trend? This is not a one sided issue its a major problem that really started to develope as the season went on, hints our 2-8 finnish. If you cant read between the lines I will explain it (directed twoard the haters).

Establishing the run game, and stoping the run are the two keys to winning about 85% of your games.

That stat line shows why adressing both Lines this offseason is a HUGE (thats punny) priority.

I

KevinJames
01-19-2010, 11:53 PM
^well said we need to beef up the front, especially on offense.

I am saying we are 3 plays from being on the losing side of 3 games we were able to win. I didn't mention the colts.

For the record, the TIP play in game 1, Marshalls game winning TD vs Cowboys and his TD vs NE. Take those plays away and this team wins 5 games.

well in that case

we were one JaMarcus Russel stop away from beating the Raiders at mile high
we were one correct call away from going into OT with the Eagles (day of the bad calls)

not to mention

we were one healthy Kyle Orton away from beating the redskins



see I can do it too!

Gob
01-20-2010, 08:40 AM
A "great defense" doesn't give up 250 yds rushing to the Raiders, 315 yds rushing to the Chiefs, both at Mile High. A "great defense" doesn't give up 21 pts to the Colts and 27 pts to the Eagles in the first half.

You better reconfigure that argument of yours, TJ. You might impress some of our weaker posters and the pro-Shanny/anti-McD crowd, but yer not gonna impress the stronger posters.

That is an interesting argument. I wonder if the stronger posters would accept doing the same cherry-pick the games style argument to evaluate the offense or the work of the head coach (except I would use the words "decent" rather then "great")? I am guessing they would rather look at the season as a whole to evaluate them.

Rohirrim
01-20-2010, 08:43 AM
I think that's evidence that the locker room was lost at that point. I think they came out and battled the Eagles out of pride showing that they had that potential still. But the Raiders games and the Chiefs games are an indictment of a coach that lost his locker room. Which is apparently why Nolan is leaving.

I think that the doubts about whether a screaming kid coach can hold a locker room together over a 16 game season are well founded.

I was once hiking through the Rockies and saw a footprint I couldn't identify. I'm pretty sure it was left by an orc. I have no doubt that the Rockies are filled with orcs.

BroncoInferno
01-20-2010, 08:46 AM
No kidding. I thought historic late season collapses, subpar scoring offenses, .500 records, constant change at DC and ignoring defensive line talent were good reasons for firing Shanny. One year later, same story but different performance standards for the HC.

No, the standards aren't different. Shanny produced three straight seasons as what you described. McDaniels has had only one year. If he produces similar or worse results after getting another two years then he'll be gone too (and deservedly so).

BroncoInferno
01-20-2010, 08:49 AM
I think that's evidence that the locker room was lost at that point. I think they came out and battled the Eagles out of pride showing that they had that potential still. But the Raiders games and the Chiefs games are an indictment of a coach that lost his locker room. Which is apparently why Nolan is leaving.

I think that the doubts about whether a screaming kid coach can hold a locker room together over a 16 game season are well founded.

Then you admit Shanny lost the locker room during the final three seasons which featured late season collapses and ass-cuttings at the hands of the likes of the Lions and Raiders, culminating in division costing three game collapse in '08 which included 31-10 and 52-21 drubbings?

Broncomutt
01-20-2010, 08:51 AM
I think that's evidence that the locker room was lost at that point. I think they came out and battled the Eagles out of pride showing that they had that potential still. But the Raiders games and the Chiefs games are an indictment of a coach that lost his locker room. Which is apparently why Nolan is leaving.

I think that the doubts about whether a screaming kid coach can hold a locker room together over a 16 game season are well founded.

You have very little hard evidence to back this up, but I can't help but agree.

I look at it this way. You got players that want to quit (Marshall & Scheffler) and other players sayin' "Bench these fools" (Dawkins, Bailey, et al.) and others who no doubt just kept quiet and did what they were told.

That's a divided locker room.

Gob
01-20-2010, 08:55 AM
No, the standards aren't different. Shanny produced three straight seasons as what you described. McDaniels has had only one year. If he produces similar or worse results after getting another two years then he'll be gone too (and deservedly so).

True as long as you agree that this season was strike one.

BroncoInferno
01-20-2010, 09:00 AM
True as long as you agree that this season was strike one.

Depends on your perspective. Folks like bpc said we would go 4-12, so they ought to be thrilled that their expectations were exceeded.

Gob
01-20-2010, 09:04 AM
Depends on your perspective. Folks like bpc said we would go 4-12, so they ought to be thrilled that their expectations were exceeded.

Then that is why I would say performance standards are different. Before Shanny was fired I bet nobody said we would go 4-12 in 2009.

strafen
01-20-2010, 09:04 AM
You have very little hard evidence to back this up, but I can't help but agree.

I look at it this way. You got players that want to quit (Marshall & Scheffler) and other players sayin' "Bench these fools" (Dawkins, Bailey, et al.) and others who no doubt just kept quiet and did what they were told.

That's a divided locker room.

It's the responsibility of the head coach to keep a team united.
It's clear McDaniels doesn't know the difference between team unity and team mutiny, which is what this team is right now.