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View Full Version : Just another day in the Jack McDaniels tenure...


bpc
01-18-2010, 06:55 PM
<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/atomic%20bomb" target="_blank"><img src="http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh132/dantelogos/atomicbombfb7mm4.gif" border="0" alt="Atomic Bomb Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

vancejohnson82
01-18-2010, 06:56 PM
"Jack?"

Meck77
01-18-2010, 06:57 PM
Dude we get it. You hate McD. Do your really need to troll a Bronco fan site?

KipCorrington25
01-18-2010, 06:58 PM
Clady is next, Dumerville won't be resigned in favor of LeKevin Smith's former back up. This guy sucks.

bpc
01-18-2010, 06:58 PM
"Jack?"

It's what the ****er drives me to drink, to dull the pain.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/jack%20daniels" target="_blank"><img src="http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/thetwilightclub/Drinks/Whiskey%20%20Liquors/jack_daniels.gif" border="0" alt="JackDaniels Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 06:59 PM
It's what the ****er drives me to drink, to dull the pain.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/jack%20daniels" target="_blank"><img src="http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/thetwilightclub/Drinks/Whiskey%20%20Liquors/jack_daniels.gif" border="0" alt="JackDaniels Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

Send it over this way .....

bpc
01-18-2010, 07:00 PM
Dude we get it. You hate McD. Do your really need to troll a Bronco fan site?

Meck, this is a fan site. Is it not okay to relay despair? We're signed up with his team, for better or worse. Do I need to sunshine pump everything when we're stuck in this ****ed up cycle of fail?

Boards like this start to suck when one set of fans think they can run another set of fans off when things aren't going well, and criticsim is warranted. We all have the right to comment on the state of affairs with our team.

Rohirrim
01-18-2010, 07:00 PM
You need to start more threads about your obsessive hatred of McDaniels. There might be a poster on here who hasn't heard about it.

Los Broncos
01-18-2010, 07:01 PM
Won't be long till Clady is traded, can see it coming.

Popps
01-18-2010, 07:01 PM
Dude we get it. You hate McD. Do your really need to troll a Bronco fan site?

He's a real disappointment. Honestly, one of the biggest falls from grace we've seen here.

At least SoCal caught himself and returned to offering some decent input. BPC is just a joke.

vancejohnson82
01-18-2010, 07:03 PM
Meck, this is a fan site. Is it not okay to relay despair? Do I need to sunshine pump everything when we're stuck in this ****ed up cycle of fail?

Boards like this start to suck when one set of fans think they can run another set of fans off when things aren't going well, and criticsim is warranted. We all have the right to comment on the state of affairs with our team.

I agree....however, whenever there is a questionable move there are about a dozen repetetive threads....when its good there is no talk other than Chicago Bears

its just strange...but whatever....this latest move confuses me

bpc
01-18-2010, 07:04 PM
Let's talk about positive things... Elvis Dumervil. He's awesome.

Does he get resigned or maybe this disagreement with Nolan tonight was in regards to him. Maybe we don't resign him. Hmmmmm...

Sorry, is this going negative again?

Popps
01-18-2010, 07:05 PM
Meck, this is a fan site. Is it not okay to relay despair? Do I need to sunshine pump everything when we're stuck in this ****ed up cycle of fail?.

That's just your brain, kid.

We were 8-8. Same as the last few seasons.

Come back in a couple of years and we'll talk about results. Right now, you're just puking out ridiculous team-bashing for the sake of doing it.

You spent MONTHS fluffing Cutler's cock until he failed so miserably, you moved on to different troll tactics.

You don't have to "pump sunshine," but you don't have to trash the team 24/7, either. Plenty of people recognize that this is an unfortunate turn of events right now.

You're just a joke.

bpc
01-18-2010, 07:06 PM
I agree....however, whenever there is a questionable move there are about a dozen repetetive threads....when its good there is no talk other than Chicago Bears

its just strange...but whatever....this latest move confuses me

Actually a majority of the times i've had to talk about anything Cutler or Shanahan related is when fools are being obviously stupid about it, and trying to talk **** and nobody expected to be called out on BS.

I don't work like that, and I don't apologize for it.

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 07:06 PM
He's a real disappointment. Honestly, one of the biggest falls from grace we've seen here.

At least SoCal caught himself and returned to offering some decent input. BPC is just a joke.

You obviously haven't been paying attention there, professor. It's you and the other angry Superfans who have now been exposed as the mindless, intolerant, angry sycophants you always were ... while those of us who took a skeptical wait-and-see approach have, sadly, been proven the wiser contingent. And bpc is most definitely included in that contingent.

Rohirrim
01-18-2010, 07:09 PM
You obviously haven't been paying attention there, professor. It's you and the other angry Superfans who have now been exposed as the mindless, intolerant, angry sycophants you always were ... while those of us who took a skeptical wait-and-see approach have, sadly, been proven the wiser contingent. And bpc is most definitely included in that contingent.

Dive! Dive! Dive! Aaaaaoooooga! :rofl:

bpc
01-18-2010, 07:09 PM
That's just your brain, kid.

We were 8-8. Same as the last few seasons.

Come back in a couple of years and we'll talk about results. Right now, you're just puking out ridiculous team-bashing for the sake of doing it.

You spent MONTHS fluffing Cutler's cock until he failed so miserably, you moved on to different troll tactics.

You don't have to "pump sunshine," but you don't have to trash the team 24/7, either. Plenty of people recognize that this is an unfortunate turn of events right now.

You're just a joke.

You're turning this personal when really, we should be looking at the state of affairs of this team.

Usually when things turn personal, it's because you don't have any answers to back up your cause, which is exactly what we're seeing right now.

You can call me a joke all you want. 2/3rd's of this board are starting to understand or feel that McDaniels is/was a gigantic failure. The only positive we could take from this 8-8 year, just walked out the door waving his middle finger at the problem.

And here we are.

ColoradoDarin
01-18-2010, 07:14 PM
This message is hidden because bpc is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

:)

Garcia Bronco
01-18-2010, 07:23 PM
Meck, this is a fan site. Is it not okay to relay despair? We're signed up with his team, for better or worse. Do I need to sunshine pump everything when we're stuck in this ****ed up cycle of fail?

Boards like this start to suck when one set of fans think they can run another set of fans off when things aren't going well, and criticsim is warranted. We all have the right to comment on the state of affairs with our team.

I hear you, but let some other people lead the charge so it's not always you.

SoDak Bronco
01-18-2010, 07:25 PM
bpc used to be one of my favorite posters..this is getting old though.

HAT
01-18-2010, 07:27 PM
I hear you, but let some other people lead the charge so it's not always you.

Not to worry...Rasta and Mock will wake of from there collective stupors before long.

And BF7 should be here shor.....errr Oh yeah. :wiggle:

Garcia Bronco
01-18-2010, 07:27 PM
And i want funny titles like:

Drive it like you stole it, McDaniels!!!!

colonelbeef
01-18-2010, 08:53 PM
Nolan was the saving grace of the 2009 Broncos, without the defense over-performing for 3/4 of the season, that was a 3 win team. Another bad personnel decision from the front office/HC.

TonyR
01-18-2010, 08:58 PM
You obviously haven't been paying attention there, professor.

You make comments to Popps every day and he never responds. There's probably a reason for this. Perhaps you should start paying attention. Move on.

TonyR
01-18-2010, 09:01 PM
Dude we get it. You hate McD. Do your really need to troll a Bronco fan site?

It is getting unbearable. As if we know for a fact that Nolan leaving is definitely going to turn out to be a bad thing. I'm not thrilled with it either. But why are these guys who clearly hate the team right now so sad to see go the coordinator of defense that wasn't very good the second half of the season?

joe9999
01-18-2010, 09:08 PM
Nolan was the saving grace of the 2009 Broncos, without the defense over-performing for 3/4 of the season, that was a 3 win team. Another bad personnel decision from the front office/HC.

That`s exactly how I see it.

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 10:27 PM
That`s exactly how I see it.

Yup.

Important to add that all hope is not lost ... Josh could mature and excel still. I recall even Shanahan had some people skill troubles in Oakland, didn't he? He turned out pretty good.

Gob
01-18-2010, 10:37 PM
It is getting unbearable. As if we know for a fact that Nolan leaving is definitely going to turn out to be a bad thing. I'm not thrilled with it either. But why are these guys who clearly hate the team right now so sad to see go the coordinator of defense that wasn't very good the second half of the season?

Out of curiosity, would you be sad to see the head coach go whose entire team- offense, defense, and special teams, wasn't very good for the second half of the season?

HAT
01-18-2010, 10:56 PM
Nolan was the saving grace of the 2009 Broncos, without the defense over-performing for 3/4 of the season, that was a 3 win team. Another bad personnel decision from the front office/HC.

Nolan was an excellent addition and it's a bummer he is seeking other opportunities. McD did well to hire him even if it was only a stop gap.

That being said.....I'm a little confused as to the bolded part of the above quote. Which 12 games exactly?

I get 6 or 7 tops.

Florida_Bronco
01-18-2010, 11:00 PM
He's a real disappointment. Honestly, one of the biggest falls from grace we've seen here.

At least SoCal caught himself and returned to offering some decent input. BPC is just a joke.

Yeah, it's sad.

watermock
01-18-2010, 11:09 PM
He's a real disappointment. Honestly, one of the biggest falls from grace we've seen here.

At least SoCal caught himself and returned to offering some decent input. BPC is just a joke.


****head.

Your an idiot.

Requiem
01-18-2010, 11:20 PM
Mock, stop being rude.

bpc
01-18-2010, 11:25 PM
It is getting unbearable. As if we know for a fact that Nolan leaving is definitely going to turn out to be a bad thing. I'm not thrilled with it either. But why are these guys who clearly hate the team right now so sad to see go the coordinator of defense that wasn't very good the second half of the season?

Because defensive play can be affected by the status of the other two units on the field, offense and special teams. In the case of the offense, they were no where to be found in multiple games and left a very good unit stranded on the field for long periods of time. One only needs to look at Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Indianopolis for the most blatant case of that. While they weren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, they shut some of these opposing teams for extended periods of time.

Also, Denver was ranked very poorly two years ago and Nolan managed to turn that around in just one season. Imagine what his defense could have done if we would have given him additional players.

Additionally, we owe our 8-8 record to the defense. They held some great offenses in check during that period of time when we went 6-0.

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 11:28 PM
****head.

Your an idiot.

The freaking ballz on these guys, huh? Their angry, flag-waving agenda has been utterly discredited, and yet they still think they have enough credibility to attack bpc, a guy who's been basically right all along. bpc and the rest of our skepticism has been validated ... today all doubts are erased, we were correct to be skeptical. Sadly.

woodall
01-19-2010, 12:06 AM
Boards like this start to suck when one set of fans think they can run another set of fans off when things aren't going well, and criticsim is warranted. We all have the right to comment on the state of affairs with our team.

This is 100% true! What are you ridiculous McDouchebag supporters going to say in 2 years when the Broncos are the laughingstock of the league and your boy gets fired!!! How many times can lil' Joshie screw over the Broncos before you morons stop defending him???

Archer81
01-19-2010, 12:13 AM
This is 100% true! What are you ridiculous McDouchebag supporters going to say in 2 years when the Broncos are the laughingstock of the league and your boy gets fired!!! How many times can lil' Joshie screw over the Broncos before you morons stop defending him???


You all cried when Cutler was traded. You all cried when we were 1-3 in the preseason. You all dissapeared when Denver went 6-0. You all cried about Sheffler and Marshall being benched for **** attitudes. We finished 8-8, making it 4 straight seasons of average football. Excuse me if I doubt some of the sincerity of the McDaniels bashers intentions. I wont attack any other member's opinion, because its their opinion. However, you are doing exactly what BPC was writing about in the post you quoted. The people who support McDaniels wont be ran off because of a disagreement with you over the direction of the team.

:Broncos:

watermock
01-19-2010, 04:40 AM
You all cried when Cutler was traded. You all cried when we were 1-3 in the preseason. You all dissapeared when Denver went 6-0. You all cried about Sheffler and Marshall being benched for **** attitudes. We finished 8-8, making it 4 straight seasons of average football. Excuse me if I doubt some of the sincerity of the McDaniels bashers intentions. I wont attack any other member's opinion, because its their opinion. However, you are doing exactly what BPC was writing about in the post you quoted. The people who support McDaniels wont be ran off because of a disagreement with you over the direction of the team.

:Broncos:

Please stay!

uplink
01-19-2010, 08:36 PM
not everyone is unhappy with the Jack McDaniels tenure

colonelbeef
01-20-2010, 12:12 AM
Nolan was an excellent addition and it's a bummer he is seeking other opportunities. McD did well to hire him even if it was only a stop gap.

That being said.....I'm a little confused as to the bolded part of the above quote. Which 12 games exactly?

I get 6 or 7 tops.

@ Bengals, gave up 7 pts.
@ Cleveland, gave up 6 pts.
@ Oakland, gave up 3 pts
Dallas, gave up 10 points against the 2nd best O in the league.
New England- gave up 17 points, including OT, against the suddenly hot Tom Brady.
@ Chargers- gave up 23 points, most of which after the game was in hand.
NY Giants- 6 points given up, first shutout of NYG in a half in forever.
@ KC- always a tough game- gave up 13 points.
@ Indianapolis- picked Manning 3 times, offense couldn't capitalize. Tons of 3 and outs.
Oakland- gave up 20 points in a game where the offense had 3 and out after 3 and out, defense was on the field far too long.
@ Philly- The defense kept the team in the game giving Prton and the O fantastic field position time and time again only to watch the bubble screen fo 3 and out possession after possession. Again, the defense was on the field too long due to a crap offense. Defense kept the team in the game.

That's 11 games were the defense played from well to fantastically. Now show me 11 games where the offense was even mediocre, let alone dominant.

Of course the defense wore down, the offense simply couldn't control the clock whatsoever due to subpar QB play and the suddenly horrendous run game.

DenverBrit
01-20-2010, 12:33 AM
This is 100% true! What are you ridiculous McDouchebag supporters going to say in 2 years when the Broncos are the laughingstock of the league and your boy gets fired!!! How many times can lil' Joshie screw over the Broncos before you morons stop defending him???


Come back in 2 years and let's find out.

ZONA
01-20-2010, 01:16 AM
I'm fine with the McD haters having their own opinion and if they think Josh messed up on something then they have a right to complain if they want. But this post is just lame. It was Nolan's choice to leave, McD did nothing and guys want to come in here and start their McD trashing as if McD fired Nolan or something. I think this is where most McD supporters draw the line. When the McD Haters club comes out in full force about something McD didn't even do, just because something related to the team happened and they are upset about it.

bpc
01-20-2010, 01:57 AM
You can call it what you want but it seems that McD was mandating how Nolan called his defense... like he was a defensive coordinator at some point or time in the league.

Was Nolan given much choice but to leave? You bring in a vastly respect DC to call your defense, then you complain that you don't like what he's doing and you think he should change it... Nice.

McD rules with an iron fist and it's working out just great. If you need prove, just take a gander at the offense. They were running off the field every three plays, they were so good.

Hulamau
01-20-2010, 04:51 AM
You're turning this personal when really, we should be looking at the state of affairs of this team.

Usually when things turn personal, it's because you don't have any answers to back up your cause, which is exactly what we're seeing right now.

You can call me a joke all you want. 2/3rd's of this board are starting to understand or feel that McDaniels is/was a gigantic failure. The only positive we could take from this 8-8 year, just walked out the door waving his middle finger at the problem.

And here we are.

Why the gigantic overreaction??? You don't even know what happened or why. Seems like it was all quite amicable and all including indications from Adam Schefter who gets it more right than wrong usually. Are you sure having Nolan back was going in the right direction?

Yes, he made some improvements in the D early on and Nolan also presided over the steady slide in performance of the D the last 10 games.

The thing is, with every change or even potential change that has happened here, its met with an instant uproar of condemnation by you, BF7 even Mock these days as if any of you guys have the faintest idea what went down and know the whole story immediately and have thus passed judgment.

I don't know, maybe Josh turns out to truly be your anti-christ and dooms the Broncos and the OM to three decades of gnashing our teeth in the firey pit of endless 2-14 seasons, as you seem to think.

But why not wait at least until he pulls out the pick fork and proclaims Beelzebub as his papa before immediately assuming the worst on every single thing that happens at Dove Valley?

Why not show a little patience and restraint and at least until he has a losing season first and plays substantially worse than the last guy???

bpc
01-20-2010, 07:08 AM
Why the gigantic overreaction??? You don't even know what happened or why. Seems like it was all quite amicable and all including indications from Adam Schefter who gets it more right than wrong usually. Are you sure having Nolan back was going in the right direction?

Yes, he made some improvements in the D early on and Nolan also presided over the steady slide in performance of the D the last 10 games.

The thing is, with every change or even potential change that has happened here, its met with an instant uproar of condemnation by you, BF7 even Mock these days as if any of you guys have the faintest idea what went down and know the whole story immediately and have thus passed judgment.

I don't know, maybe Josh turns out to truly be your anti-christ and dooms the Broncos and the OM to three decades of gnashing our teeth in the firey pit of endless 2-14 seasons, as you seem to think.

But why not wait at least until he pulls out the pick fork and proclaims Beelzebub as his papa before immediately assuming the worst on every single thing that happens at Dove Valley?

Why not show a little patience and restraint and at least until he has a losing season first and plays substantially worse than the last guy???

The last 10 games had some disappointment attached to it but again, you're pasting the failure of talent overall on Nolan, much as most of you pin losses on Cutler as only his fault. Football is a team game, you gotta have players to win. Ultimately. Nolan needed more weapons on his unit but his aggressive approach sealed many huge victories for us this year and kept us in the game with some big offenses.

I've seen enough of McDaniels to know what type of character he is. People don't respect young, arrogant, A-Hole coaches like McDaniels when he walks all over coaches who have two and three times the experience he does much NFL respect. Guys like him and Lane Kiffin have the same MO and they're going to get burned sooner or later.

If you want to support McD, that's good for you. As a fan, it's your right. I think he's a cancer to my team, and I'm ready for him to be expunged.

TonyR
01-20-2010, 07:19 AM
...you're pasting the failure of talent overall on Nolan...

I don't know that anyone is "blaming" Nolan for anything. What's funny is that you drama clowns are blaming McD without any firm knowledge of what the situation really was or is. Once again you're choosing to bash and blame the current Broncos instead of the former Broncos. The organization will survive without Mike Nolan. He did a nice job but I think you're remembering him more for the first 6 weeks of the season instead of the last 10. How can you bash McD for the 2-8 while totally absolving Nolan? Where's the logic in that?

BroncoBuff
01-20-2010, 09:14 AM
Anybody see the show "Lie to Me"? Non-verbal communication was my masters thesis, and this pic of Josh, so similar to so many others, is telling:

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20100120/961aae_pees2_012010_edited-1.jpg

DenverBrit
01-20-2010, 09:32 AM
Anybody see the show "Lie to Me"? Non-verbal communication was my masters thesis, and this pic of Josh, so similar to so many others, is telling:

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20100120/961aae_pees2_012010_edited-1.jpg

What's telling is your unhealthy obsession. ;D

BroncoInferno
01-20-2010, 09:36 AM
The freaking ballz on these guys, huh? Their angry, flag-waving agenda has been utterly discredited, and yet they still think they have enough credibility to attack bpc, a guy who's been basically right all along. bpc and the rest of our skepticism has been validated ... today all doubts are erased, we were correct to be skeptical. Sadly.

You are in lala land if you think anything has been validated. BPC's takes (and yours to a lesser extent) are full of unsubstantiated conspiracy BS. I already ripped to shreds you Occam's razor argument yesterday and you disappeared from the thread.

UberBroncoMan
01-20-2010, 10:02 AM
Won't be long till Clady is traded, can see it coming.

What will you change your name to when this happens?

Br0nc0Buster
01-20-2010, 10:05 AM
cool thread bro....

I also like how the guy who was blowing his load over Chris Simms in the offseason is now confident enough to start dishing out the "I told you so's"

bendog
01-20-2010, 10:09 AM
I don't know that anyone is "blaming" Nolan for anything. What's funny is that you drama clowns are blaming McD without any firm knowledge of what the situation really was or is. Once again you're choosing to bash and blame the current Broncos instead of the former Broncos. The organization will survive without Mike Nolan. He did a nice job but I think you're remembering him more for the first 6 weeks of the season instead of the last 10. How can you bash McD for the 2-8 while totally absolving Nolan? Where's the logic in that?


The "blame" seems to be more about: WTF is tiny doing? He just hired this guy, who did improve the defense btw, and now one year in he seemingly can't work with him! WTF???

Followed by: You "fans" cannot criticize McDaniels! It must be Nolan who has ... [fill in the blank with: conspired with Parcells; committed insubordination; or something along those lines

BroncoBuff
01-20-2010, 10:22 AM
I already ripped to shreds you Occam's razor argument yesterday and you disappeared from the thread.

I don't think you ever did understand Occam's Razor, though I tried to explain. And I don't remember anything remotely like "ripping." I stand by my theory 100%, which Woody and the Boston Globe agree with. And as far as "disappearing," I do have a life ...

Now, have you seen "Lie to Me" or not? Do you understand the concept of non-verbal communication, and that it is a science?

I'm guessing you won't be responding to that ... you're too busy "ripping me to shreds" in your own mind :~ohyah!:

strafen
01-20-2010, 10:28 AM
Meck, this is a fan site. Is it not okay to relay despair? We're signed up with his team, for better or worse. Do I need to sunshine pump everything when we're stuck in this ****ed up cycle of fail?

Boards like this start to suck when one set of fans think they can run another set of fans off when things aren't going well, and criticsim is warranted. We all have the right to comment on the state of affairs with our team.Well said! :thumbsup:

BroncoInferno
01-20-2010, 10:35 AM
I don't think you ever did understand Occam's Razor, though I tried to explain. And I don't remember anything remotely like "ripping." I stand by my theory 100%, which Woody and the Boston Globe agree with. And as far as "disappearing," I do have a life ...

I understood your Occam's razor argument, and you misapplied the concept:

You are misusing Occam's razor by indicating that there are a number of situations that COULD be interpreted in a certain negative way, therefore the simplest answer is that the possible negative conjectures are correct. A proper use of Occam's razor would be to determine the simplest answer in each individual case.

1) Marshall's rogue behavior predates McDaniels arrival, therefore the simplest answer is that his rogue behavior is to blame for his two suspensions by McD and his imminent departure.

2) Scheffler's wildly inconsistent play and attitude issues predate McDaniels arrival, therefore the simplest answer is that his inconsistent play and suspension for his negative attitude was likely his undoing, not poor personal skills on the part of McD.

3) Turner and Dennison both made their reputations as coaches of the ZBS. McDaniels prefers a power blocking scheme. The medocity of the running game this season suggest that the meshing of the styles did not work out. The simplest answer is a philosophical mismatch.

4) Nolan has a long history of running read-and-react defenses, yet the defense used most of this season was much more aggressive than what he has traditional run, and is more in line with the sort of defense run in NE that McDaniels prefer. Again, the simplest answer is a philosophical mismatch.

In short, Occam's razor is a great tool to use, but used properly it does not support your assertion.

I received multiple reps declaring me the victor, so the shred-ripping exists in at least a few other minds ;D

Now, have you seen "Lie to Me" or not? Do you understand the concept of non-verbal communication, and that it is a science?

I'm guessing you won't be responding to that ... you're too busy "ripping me to shreds" in your own mind :~ohyah!:

I haven't seen it. I'm not terribly interested in your Fox News-like attempts to make sweeping judgements based on a photograph.

BroncoBuff
01-20-2010, 10:58 AM
Inferno, I think you simply do not understand Occam's Razor. You said the other night you'd never heard of it, and therefore, unsurprisingly, you're mis-applying the concept here. Let me explain: Instead of interposing multiple and varied explanations for these numerous personality "differences" (tellingly, none of which blame Josh), you can much more easily, as Occam postulated, explain ALL of them by rooting out a single, common explanation, to wit:


Q: What do all these separate situations have in common?
A: The Denver Broncos and Josh McDaniels

Q: What are the commonalities of these separate situations?
A: That the persons have decided to leave, or wish to leave, the Broncos and McDaniels

Q: Is it possible each of these several situations have distinct and insular causes?
A: Possible, but unlikely in that a single factor can explain them all. That the Broncos/Josh are difficult to work with, as the Boston papers today explained.



Next, It's not just "a" photograph, it's numerous and repetitive images with the same facial expression - and it's a very basic, very telling expression. It's not guesswork, it's science.

Now, is it possible that Josh knows what he's doing with this approach? Sure, it's possible. Many, MANY coaches have succeeded with a my-way-or-the-highway-approach (especially in the pre-free agency era). But it doesn't seem likely here, in that so many talented and successful people have left or wish to leave, and so few talented and successful people have stepped up to replace them. A 60-something just-fired coordinator with very serious health issues is not a step up from the guy who just left.

Finally, I simply don't believe you received "multiple reps" declaring you the "winner," especially seeing that you'd never heard of Occam's Razor before. Besides, why am I arguing with you? I have the Boston Globe, PFT, Woody and Occam's Razor on my side. So I'm good :thumbs:

BroncoInferno
01-20-2010, 11:05 AM
Inferno, I think you simply do not understand Occam's Razor. You said the other night you'd never heard of it, and therefore, unsurprisingly, you're mis-applying the concept here. Let me explain: Instead of interposing multiple and varied explanations for these numerous personality "differences" (tellingly, none of which blame Josh), you can much more easily, as Occam postulated, explain ALL of them by rooting out a single, common explanation, to wit:


Q: What do all these separate situations have in common?
A: The Denver Broncos and Josh McDaniels

Q: What are the commonalities of these separate situations?
A: That the persons have decided to leave, or wish to leave, the Broncos and McDaniels

Q: Is it possible each of these several situations have distinct and insular causes?
A: Possible, but unlikely in that a single factor can explain them all. That the Broncos/Josh are difficult to work with, as the Boston papers today explained.

I never said I had never heard of Occam's razor. You must be thinking of someone else. And, sorry, it is you who are failing to apply the razor correctly because you are lumping several situations, each with its own unique set of circumstances, together. There is nothing simple about that. The proper way is to apply the razor to each individual situation, as I correctly demonstrated above. Sorry, Occam's razor does not support you here.

Finally, I simply don't believe you received "multiple reps" declaring you the "winner," especially seeing that you'd never heard of Occam's Razor before.

Again, I never said any such thing. And here are a couple of the reps I received (thanks for implying I was lying, by the way):

BPC: Stop negative... 01-19-2010 11:32 PM DenverBrit Excellent!
BPC: Stop negative... 01-19-2010 11:31 PM bombay well done

BroncoInferno
01-20-2010, 11:10 AM
Oh, and I don't care to respond to your photograph stuff because it's pseudoscience and it doesn't interest me.

ZONA
01-20-2010, 11:22 AM
Lets look at this further:

Dennison WANTED to go to Houston (more money, upgraded position)

Turner WANTED to go to DC (reunited with friend of many years, security, new position)

Nolan WANTED to go to Miami (it's true so shut up, it's the first place he goes and less then 24 hours after he flys out of Denver he's signed his name on the line)

Cutler WANTED to be traded (both him and his agent wanted out of Denver before McD even was named the HC)


Seems to me like there is way too much crap being handed to McD. Dennison and Turner wanted out because of a better opportunity, how can anybody blame them or McD. Nolan wanted to go, so he's gone. Cutler wanted out so he's out.

The only guy I see WANTING to be here in Denver and turn this team around is Josh and I see nothing but a bunch of gutless backstabbing whores around here who want to crucify him. At least he WANTS to be here in Denver. Everybody else wants to hightail it outta here. So let them losers leave. Denver is a great city and Broncos a great franchise and Josh wants to be here and turn this team around and we need more people supporting him. Most of the guys here seem to want to support the puds who just want out rather then the guy is wants to stay. Screw you guys.

BroncoBuff
01-20-2010, 12:26 PM
You're incorrectly limiting the application of the theory. Occam's Razor applies to any singular or multiple set of unexplained events or occurrences, as long as you can identify commonalities in that set ... such that a simple, common explanation can be identified as a causal factor in each. And here, Josh is one of the commonalities (Josh, the franchise, and the city I suppose, broadly speaking).

And I suppose your two reps are "multiple" reps, strictly speaking ... so I stand corrected :(


While non-verbal communication in the form of facial, olfactory and body motion decoding CAN be LIKE a pseudoscience when there is no baseline for differentiation, here there is a baseline: that's not how his face is shaped, and that's not his face at rest. Facial expression decoding is in fact a hard science. Here:

The Facial Action Coding System (FACS)

Ekman and Friesen's (1978) Facial Action Coding System (FACS) was developed by determining from palpation, EMG, knowledge of anatomy, videotapes and photographs how the contraction of each facial muscle (singly and in combination with other muscles) changes the appearance of the face. Videotapes of more than 5000 different combinations of muscular actions were examined to determine the specific changes in appearance that occurred and how best to differentiate one from another. Measurement with FACS is in terms of Action Units (AUs) rather than muscular units for two reasons. First, for a few changes in appearance, more than one muscle is combined into a single AU. It is not possible to reliably distinguish which specific muscle acts to produce the lowering of the eyebrow and the drawing of the eyebrows together, and therefore the three muscles involved in these changes in appearance are combined into one specific Action Unit. Likewise, the muscles involved in opening the lips are also combined. Second, FACS separates into two AUs the activity of the frontalis muscle, because the inner and outer portion of this muscle can act independently, producing different changes in appearance. There are 46 AUs which account for changes in facial expression, and 12 AUs which describe changes in gaze direction and head orientation in coarser terms.

FACS coders spend approximately 100 hours learning the basics of FACS. Self instructional materials teach the anatomy of facial activity, i.e., how muscles singly and in combination change the appearance of the face. Prior to using FACS in research, learners are urged to score a videotaped test, to insure they are measuring facial behavior in agreement with prior learners. To date, more than 300 people in all areas of the world have learned FACS and achieved inter-coder agreement on this test of proficiency, and many others have some degree of familiarity with this method, which has become a de facto standard for social, behavioral, and computer scientists studying the face.

A FACS coder "dissects" an observed expression, decomposing it into the specific AUs which produced the movement. The coder repeatedly views records of behavior in slowed and stopped motion to determine which AU or combination of AUs best account for the observed changes. The scores for a facial expression consist of the list of AUs which produced it. The focus on individual AUs minimizes the coder's inference about the emotional meanings of the expression. The precise duration of each action also is determined, and the intensity of each muscular action and any lateral asymmetry is rated. In the most elaborate use of FACS, the coder determines the onset (first evidence) of each AU, when the action reaches an apex (maximum excursion), the end of the apex period when it begins to decline, and when it disappears from the face completely (offset). These time measurements are usually much more costly to obtain than the decision about which AU(s) produced the movement, and in most research only onset and offset have been measured.

http://www.face-and-emotion.com/dataface/misctext/iwafgr.html