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Popps
01-18-2010, 05:29 PM
Broncos defensive coordinator Mike Nolan and the team parted ways today, clearing the way for former Patriots assistant Dean Pees to take the position on head coach Josh McDaniels' staff.
"I can't say anything other than Josh and I mutually agreed to part ways," Nolan said after meeting with McDaniels today.
Pees had served as the defensive coordinator in New England under Bill Belichick since the 2006 season, but he left the team under mutual agreement on Jan. 14. The Patriots defense ranked 11th overall this season.

Pees, 60, was hospitalized for shortness of breath in a Week 17 loss at Houston.
But don't feel too sorry for Nolan. He's expected to get another defensive coordinator position soon, interviewing
this week with the Miami Dolphins.

The Buffalo Bills have also expressed interest, and the Chicago Bears may be eying him as well.
Nolan was the first hire for McDaniels when he became head coach of the Broncos last year.

With a new 3-4 defense the Broncos gave up the fewest points in the NFL (66) during the first six games of the season on the way to 6-0 start, but faltered the second half of the season and were torched for 44 points in the season finale against the Kansas City Chiefs.

"I have great respect for Mike and wish him success in the future," McDaniels said in a team statement.
Nolan had coached the San Francisco 49ers from 2005 before being fired during the 2008 season. He is the son of former NFL head coach Dick Nolan.


Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_14217058#ixzz0d199cZ7t

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_14217058

vancejohnson82
01-18-2010, 05:32 PM
haha...so anyone who leaves our team now becomes a Chicago target?

The MVPlaya
01-18-2010, 05:33 PM
Where is this team statement?

NYBronco
01-18-2010, 05:33 PM
Giving up 44 points to KC in Denver all I can say is good luck to you Mike Nolan wherever you end up. I'm looking forward to your replacement.

gyldenlove
01-18-2010, 05:36 PM
Giving up 44 points to KC in Denver all I can say is good luck to you Mike Nolan wherever you end up. I'm looking forward to your replacement.

He only gave up 30, Mcdaniels and Orton gave up 14. You can't really blame the defensive coordinator for the QB throwing two pick six interceptions.

Rabb
01-18-2010, 05:38 PM
He only gave up 30, Mcdaniels and Orton gave up 14. You can't really blame the defensive coordinator for the QB throwing two pick six interceptions.

Just like you cannot blame the coach for the QB throwing 2 pick sixes right?

Popps
01-18-2010, 05:38 PM
Dean Pees, a 37-year coaching veteran, was named the defensive coordinator on Bill Belichick's staff on January 17, 2006. Pees served as the Patriots' linebackers coach from 2004-05 and his coaching credentials include six seasons as a collegiate head coach and 15 seasons as a defensive coordinator at the college level. Pees joined Belichick's staff prior to the 2004 season after a tenure as the head coach at Kent State.

The Patriots have averaged less than 20 points per game allowed in every season that Pees has been defensive coordinator. In 2008, the Patriots allowed 19.3 points per game and achieved an 11-5 record despite using 22 different starters on defense, including four rookies. Pees' 2008 defense ranked second in the NFL in forced threeand- out percentage (30.6) and helped give the offense the second best average starting field position in the NFL.

In 2007, Pees' defense contributed to the first 16-0 regular season in NFL history. The Patriots defense allowed 274 points, marking the fourth time in the previous five seasons (since 2003) that New England has allowed fewer than 275 points in a season. The 2007 Patriots ranked fourth in the league in yards allowed per game (288.3), the fewest allowed by a Patriots defense in 28 years, and second in the league in sacks (47). The Patriots defense sent three starters to the Pro Bowl (LB Mike Vrabel, NT Vince Wilfork and CB Asante Samuel).

In his first season as defensive coordinator in 2006, Pees' defense set a franchise record for points allowed per game, giving up an average of just 14.81 points per opponent as the Patriots finished 12-4 and at the top of the AFC East. The New England defense was fourth in the NFL in takeaways and first in opponents' fourth down conversion percentage. The Patriots defense was also second in the league in opponent passer rating. Pees' defense steadily improved over the course of the season, and remained in the NFL's top 10 in total defense for the entire second half of the season. The Patriots finished second in the league in points allowed in 2006.

In 2005, Pees tutored a Patriots linebackers unit that featured three of the defense's top five tacklers and accounted for 22 of the team's 33 sacks. Mike Vrabel transitioned from outside linebacker to inside linebacker during the season and paced the team with a career-high 114 tackles (80 solo), while Rosevelt Colvin's 73 tackles (49 solo) marked the second highest total of his career and placed fourth on the team. Tedy Bruschi, who missed the first six games of the season while recovering from a stroke, placed fifth on the team with 72 tackles (38 solo) despite playing in just nine games.

The contributions of the linebackers in the second half of the 2005 season were a key reason the Patriots were able to clinch the AFC East title by recording six wins in a seven-week span over the final two months of the season. During the month of December the Patriots shut down the run, allowing just 31.3 rushing yards per game. The effort helped to produce four straight December wins, including a 28-0 shutout over Tampa Bay on December 17 to claim the AFC East crown. Additionally, New England allowed just 10 total points over a three-game December span, marking the fewest points allowed over any three games in team history.

Pees marked a solid first season in the NFL in 2004, mentoring a linebackers unit that produced three of the team's top four tacklers. The Patriots defense ranked sixth in the NFL against the run, while New England linebackers recorded 27.5 quarterback sacks. Tedy Bruschi finished second on the team in tackles (128), and fellow starters Ted Johnson (112) and Vrabel (76), finished third and fourth, respectively. Outside linebacker Willie McGinest, also a starter in the Patriots' 3-4 alignment, paced the team with 9.5 sacks. Bruschi, in his ninth NFL season, earned his first Pro Bowl selection.

Pees was hired as the head coach at Kent State on December 17, 1997, faced with the challenge of rebuilding a program that had not produced a winning season in 12 years and had not won more than three games in a season for six years. Once his system was fully implemented, the Golden Flashes showed significant improvement.

In 2001, Pees led the Golden Flashes to a 6-5 record, notching the school's best mark in 14 years, and only the second winning season in 25 years. In his last three seasons at Kent State, Pees' teams won more games than the school had won in the previous decade. Pees' six-year tenure with the Golden Flashes made him the longest-serving head coach in the program's last 40 years.

Prior to securing the head job at Kent State, Pees was the defensive coordinator and inside linebackers coach on Nick Saban's staff at Michigan State. The Spartans qualified for a postseason bowl game in each of Pees' three seasons in East Lansing and finished with the 13th-ranked overall defense in the nation in his final season.

Pees joined Michigan State after serving as secondary coach on Lou Holtz's staff at Notre Dame during the 1994 season. While in South Bend, Pees coached Eagles Pro Bowl cornerback Bobby Taylor during his senior season in which he was named to numerous All-American teams. He joined the Fighting Irish after four seasons as the defensive coordinator at the University of Toledo, where he was first hired by Saban in 1990. In 1992, Pees' defense allowed just 13.9 points per game as Toledo posted an 8-3 record, including two shutout victories. Pees also served a threeyear stint as the secondary coach at the Naval Academy (1987-89).

Pees began his coaching career with a six-year tenure as a high school head coach. He then entered the college ranks as the defensive coordinator/ secondary coach for the University of Findlay (1979-82) and then held the same title at Miami (Ohio) University (1983-86).

NYBronco
01-18-2010, 05:40 PM
He only gave up 30, Mcdaniels and Orton gave up 14. You can't really blame the defensive coordinator for the QB throwing two pick six interceptions.

OK Nolan's D only gave up 30 points to KC in Denver, that makes all the difference.

I'm still looking forward to Nolan's replacement.

oubronco
01-18-2010, 05:42 PM
Yes Popps but we don't have the players that New England had

Rabb
01-18-2010, 05:43 PM
Yes Popps but we don't have the players that New England had

well, not ALL of them yet

hades
01-18-2010, 05:49 PM
Sooooo, what Popps is saying is Pees has no real experience, I get it.

Popps
01-18-2010, 05:57 PM
Yes Popps but we don't have the players that New England had

Totally agree, and that's why you'll find me making that argument on many threads here, in spite of being told that we should have gone 16-0 and won the SB this season.

More talent? Where do I sign? Been saying that for a while, now.

I'd assume that adding more talent would be part of the equation. Just a guess.


For the record, it looks like Pees did rather well with less than stellar talent, rookies and dealt with a lot of injuries.

vancejohnson82
01-18-2010, 05:59 PM
Totally agree, and that's why you'll find me making that argument on many threads here, in spite of being told that we should have gone 16-0 and won the SB this season.

More talent? Where do I sign? Been saying that for a while, now.

I'd assume that adding more talent would be part of the equation. Just a guess.


For the record, it looks like Pees did rather well with less than stellar talent, rookies and dealt with a lot of injuries.

Popps,

I thought (being one of your minions) that I was supposed to root for LESS talent and better records so I can say what a genius McDaniels is...

can you please forward me your thoughts on Nolan and I will proceed with proper support.

Signed,

Minion #4

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 06:01 PM
Where is this team statement?

http://greenspeedsn.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/josh-mcdaniels.jpg

Broncos head coach McDaniels issued the following statement:
"The coach indicated he wished to seek new challenges elsewhere."

bombay
01-18-2010, 06:02 PM
As noted in the Nolan thread, the wheels came off the defense in the 2nd half of the season. They gave up an average of 15.5 in the first half, during which they faced 5 playoff bound teams. They gave up 24.75 in the 2nd half, when they faced 3 playoff bound teams. For whatever reason, other teams caught up with Nolan's D.

Rohirrim
01-18-2010, 06:04 PM
I like Nolan, but I never thought he would be the long term answer. I assumed he would stay here until he got another HC shot, which could have come at any time. So, it sucks, but it's part of the game.

Popps
01-18-2010, 06:08 PM
Popps,

I thought (being one of your minions) that I was supposed to root for LESS talent and better records so I can say what a genius McDaniels is...

can you please forward me your thoughts on Nolan and I will proceed with proper support.

Signed,

Minion #4



You clearly need to read your Minion Constitution. This is covered in chapter 7, just after the Hillis Conspiracy guidelines.

Popps
01-18-2010, 06:12 PM
As noted in the Nolan thread, the wheels came off the defense in the 2nd half of the season. They gave up an average of 15.5 in the first half, during which they faced 5 playoff bound teams. They gave up 24.75 in the 2nd half, when they faced 3 playoff bound teams. For whatever reason, other teams caught up with Nolan's D.

That was disappointing. Even in games where we scored fairly well, we got into real trouble.

I attributed it to lacking talent, but we had the same talent all year. So, that was someone of a concern.

Still, I would have liked to see him have one more year. But, I'm also not upset if we get Pees in here. I like what I read about him.

Again, one of these things we'll never really know... I wonder how much input Nolan had over personnel? I wish we knew that answer. We never will, just like with Shanahan.

Rohirrim
01-18-2010, 06:13 PM
That was disappointing. Even in games where we scored fairly well, we got into real trouble.

I attributed it to lacking talent, but we had the same talent all year. So, that was someone of a concern.

Still, I would have liked to see him have one more year. But, I'm also not upset if we get Pees in here. I like what I read about him.

Again, one of these things we'll never really know... I wonder how much input Nolan had over personnel? I wish we knew that answer. We never will, just like with Shanahan.

You're still right: It's lack of talent more than any other thing, including coaching.

bombay
01-18-2010, 06:15 PM
You're still right: It's lack of talent more than any other thing, including coaching.


No doubt about the lack of talent. Mediocre running backs were putting up huge numbers against the Broncos running it right up the gut.

broncosteven
01-18-2010, 06:15 PM
As noted in the Nolan thread, the wheels came off the defense in the 2nd half of the season. They gave up an average of 15.5 in the first half, during which they faced 5 playoff bound teams. They gave up 24.75 in the 2nd half, when they faced 3 playoff bound teams. For whatever reason, other teams caught up with Nolan's D.

And during the 1st 4 game losing streak we only avg'ed 10 points per game on O.

What are the O #'s during the SECOND 4 game losing streak?

bombay
01-18-2010, 06:17 PM
And during the 1st 4 game losing streak we only avg'ed 10 points per game on O.

What are the O #'s during the SECOND 4 game losing streak?

Should be easy enough to find out. Let us know.

Did Nolan run the offense, too?

Popps
01-18-2010, 06:19 PM
And during the 1st 4 game losing streak we only avg'ed 10 points per game on O.

What are the O #'s during the SECOND 4 game losing streak?

Not sure, but 2 of those games were played without the starting QB, for the record.

The concern was against Indy, Philly and KC, where we did put up some points... and the D still fell apart.

It was just tough to figure why we went south so hard, defensively. Or, maybe we just played over our heads early on.

broncosteven
01-18-2010, 06:27 PM
Not sure, but 2 of those games were played without the starting QB, for the record.

The concern was against Indy, Philly and KC, where we did put up some points... and the D still fell apart.

It was just tough to figure why we went south so hard, defensively. Or, maybe we just played over our heads early on.

For the record Orton started the last 4 games, I did the math it was 21.4 points over the last 4 games. Not stellar

ant1999e
01-18-2010, 06:32 PM
I like Nolan, but I never thought he would be the long term answer. I assumed he would stay here until he got another HC shot, which could have come at any time. So, it sucks, but it's part of the game.

He's going to buffalo. :thumbs:

Popps
01-18-2010, 06:33 PM
For the record Orton started the last 4 games, I did the math it was 21.4 points over the last 4 games. Not stellar

Not stellar, but look at the Indy game. They had 21 on us before we could blink. We also scored OK against Philly and KC, but the D just seemed to fold.

I get that you're looking for McD to be the scape-goat for the late season defensive collapse, but it's just not accurate.

Mike Shanahan's offense wasn't the reason the 06/07/08 defenses fell apart. The defenses just weren't very good.

Our defense improved this year, but clearly... by the end of the year it would be fair for ANY rational fan to question the performance of the defense AND the offense.

tsiguy96
01-18-2010, 06:38 PM
so pees runs the same defense as we ran this year, attacking 3-4 with varying pressure and disguised blitz/coverage on most plays?

broncosteven
01-18-2010, 06:40 PM
Not stellar, but look at the Indy game. They had 21 on us before we could blink. We also scored OK against Philly and KC, but the D just seemed to fold.

....


How many times did we go 3 and out vs Indy to get down 21 -zippo?

How many games all freaking year did the O start slow and the D kept them in games? They wouldn't have made INDY sweat if the D doesn't show up after being down big. The Eagles game is another blow out if the D doesn't make it a closer game.

broncosteven
01-18-2010, 06:41 PM
so pees runs the same defense as we ran this year, attacking 3-4 with varying pressure and disguised blitz/coverage on most plays?

But is the dude healty? Sounds like he wants to talk over his options with his wife.

tsiguy96
01-18-2010, 06:42 PM
How many times did we go 3 and out vs Indy to get down 21 -zippo?

How many games all freaking year did the O start slow and the D kept them in games? They wouldn't have made INDY sweat if the D doesn't show up after being down big. The Eagles game is another blow out if the D doesn't make it a closer game.

if we started 3 3-outs, thats an excuse for allowing 21 points right away? credit the toughness fo entire team for fighting back and defense did pick manning 3 times which we didnt capitalize on, but if we dont go down that fast that early, we win the game.

Popps
01-18-2010, 06:42 PM
so pees runs the same defense as we ran this year, attacking 3-4 with varying pressure and disguised blitz/coverage on most plays?

Need to read up on him, more. Sounds like he gets a lot of mileage out of his LBs.

He's also had a very good front 3 to work with.


I know everyone hates the Patriots, but as far as I'm concerned... if Nolan is gone, the next best option would be a guy that has had success and runs things in a way McD is familiar with.

I say bring in all the ex-pats we need to if it helps us win.

tsiguy96
01-18-2010, 06:43 PM
But is the dude healty? Sounds like he wants to talk over his options with his wife.

well he didnt get fired his contract ran out and he didnt want to renew it, but his health i dont think anyone has any idea of. hes 60 years old, hes not a spring chicken.

Popps
01-18-2010, 06:45 PM
How many times did we go 3 and out vs Indy to get down 21 -zippo?

How many games all freaking year did the O start slow and the D kept them in games? They wouldn't have made INDY sweat if the D doesn't show up after being down big. The Eagles game is another blow out if the D doesn't make it a closer game.

I agree completely. Our D played great at times this season.

Conversely, why couldn't they stop Jafatass Russell on ONE drive to seal a probable playoff entry?

Point is, they just need more talent. I don't think Nolan was responsible (solely) for that slide. I also don't think McDaniels' offense was. It's just needing more talent.

As I said, I know it's part of the Hater Handbook, but maybe try to step outside of it and see it for the reality it is, once in a while. We need more... better players. Shocking concept, I know.

gyldenlove
01-18-2010, 06:46 PM
so pees runs the same defense as we ran this year, attacking 3-4 with varying pressure and disguised blitz/coverage on most plays?

The Belichick 3-4 is a lot less aggressive in terms of blitzing and relies a lot more on zone coverage and zone-man mixes. When blitzing it is quite common from zone coverage.

tsiguy96
01-18-2010, 06:53 PM
The Belichick 3-4 is a lot less aggressive in terms of blitzing and relies a lot more on zone coverage and zone-man mixes. When blitzing it is quite common from zone coverage.

that seems to be more what we ran later in the year, we came out fo the box the first few weeks running a jim johnson style D, then later they seemed to let off the gas, one of my major coaching complaints of the year.

Popps
01-18-2010, 07:15 PM
so pees runs the same defense as we ran this year, attacking 3-4 with varying pressure and disguised blitz/coverage on most plays?

The good news would seem to be that we're already in the midst of a personnel shift that plays towards the scheme.

He also put up big sack numbers without the luxury of a guy like Doom.

We'll see what happens, but I like the sound of him.

As I said, I'm perfectly happy to have as many ex-pats as possible. Shanahan loaded up his roster with ex 49ers and guys he was familiar with.

That's how you do it.

montrose
01-18-2010, 07:41 PM
Not excited at all for Pees. He may even be a solid coach but I think it colors McD so badly to bring in a NE guy. I'm really worried about this locker room, I'd even like to see a move to bring the team together like resigning Marshall or Dumervil. Just something positive because since December we lost 4 straight to miss the playoffs - including an embarrasing home loss to KC, went through the Marshall thing and lost three coaches including Nolan. Something positive has to happen.

colonelbeef
01-18-2010, 07:50 PM
Totally agree, and that's why you'll find me making that argument on many threads here, in spite of being told that we should have gone 16-0 and won the SB this season.

More talent? Where do I sign? Been saying that for a while, now.

I'd assume that adding more talent would be part of the equation. Just a guess.


For the record, it looks like Pees did rather well with less than stellar talent, rookies and dealt with a lot of injuries.

When did he do well? New England's defense has been horrid for 3 years now.

That defense died when Bruschi and Law were done.

Lev Vyvanse
01-18-2010, 07:51 PM
When did he do well? New England's defense has been horrid for 3 years now.

That defense died when Bruschi and Law were done.

Top ten points and yards in each of the last three years is horrid?

Bob's your Information Minister
01-18-2010, 08:05 PM
By the end of the year you'll be calling him Dean Poops.

colonelbeef
01-18-2010, 08:10 PM
Top ten points and yards in each of the three years is horrid?

That defense may have been decent statistically, but it's been quite beatable since 06. They played an incredibly weak schedule this year, including an "away" game on a neutral site against the worst team in the league and 4x against the bills and dolphins, two of the worst offenses in the league, and still were only 11th in yards against.

Aside from all of that, you think some background douche has control of the defense, or Bill Belichick, the mastermind of the 86 and 90 Giants defenses, and the architect of the New England run of the first half of 00 is running that side of the ball?

broncosteven
01-18-2010, 08:10 PM
I agree completely. Our D played great at times this season.

Conversely, why couldn't they stop Jafatass Russell on ONE drive to seal a probable playoff entry?

Point is, they just need more talent. I don't think Nolan was responsible (solely) for that slide. I also don't think McDaniels' offense was. It's just needing more talent.

As I said, I know it's part of the Hater Handbook, but maybe try to step outside of it and see it for the reality it is, once in a while. We need more... better players. Shocking concept, I know.

Everyone needs more talent, the Saints, the Vikings, the Colts, even the Jets could all use more talent and depth but talent can go to waste if the Coaches cannot utilize their talent.

I like how Ryan plays to his teams strengths, I wish we had more of that mindset around here but I guess that is hating.

watermock
01-18-2010, 08:11 PM
http://greenspeedsn.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/josh-mcdaniels.jpg

Broncos head coach McDaniels issued the following statement:
"The coach indicated he wished to seek new challenges elsewhere."

Pees would be the worst move for several reasons.

Popps
01-18-2010, 08:13 PM
Pees would be the worst move for several reasons.

Oh crap. Someone just came to.

Popps
01-18-2010, 08:18 PM
Everyone needs more talent, the Saints, the Vikings, the Colts, even the Jets could all use more talent and depth but talent can go to waste if the Coaches cannot utilize their talent.

I like how Ryan plays to his teams strengths, I wish we had more of that mindset around here but I guess that is hating.

Pretty funny.

Someone already pointed this out, but suddenly everyone is a huge Ryan fan. Where was this 6 weeks ago?

It's easy to play to your strengths when you have one of the best O-lines going. Hand the ball to a RB. Duh.


The ****ing Jets were dead in the water. They won ONE more game than us. They were gift-wrapped an invitation to the playoffs and got hot.

Now suddenly the coach is Jesus flippin' Christ.

Popps
01-18-2010, 08:19 PM
Oh, and that rep was hysterical, Steven. (You know which one. ;)

watermock
01-18-2010, 08:20 PM
As I said, I know it's part of the Hater Handbook, but maybe try to step outside of it and see it for the reality it is, once in a while. We need more... better players. Shocking concept, I know.

Are you for ****in' real?

Why don't you try the old reality handbook for once?

The '08 offense was 2nd in yards, it's been destroyed.

Our draft sucked. Our coaching sucks now. Our talent will/has been removed.

Popps
01-18-2010, 08:24 PM
Are you for ****in' real?

Why don't you try the old reality handbook for once?

The '08 offense was 2nd in yards, it's been destroyed.

Our draft sucked. Our coaching sucks now. Our talent will/has been removed.

Oh boy.

Here we go, folks.

Hilarious!

Rabb
01-18-2010, 08:28 PM
Not excited at all for Pees. He may even be a solid coach but I think it colors McD so badly to bring in a NE guy. I'm really worried about this locker room, I'd even like to see a move to bring the team together like resigning Marshall or Dumervil. Just something positive because since December we lost 4 straight to miss the playoffs - including an embarrasing home loss to KC, went through the Marshall thing and lost three coaches including Nolan. Something positive has to happen.

agree 100%

DBroncos4life
01-18-2010, 08:30 PM
Should be easy enough to find out. Let us know.

Did Nolan run the offense, too?

So you view Nolan's failures as a good enough reason to be let go? What about the people that failed on O? When do they get to leave the team?

TonyR
01-18-2010, 08:32 PM
...but suddenly everyone is a huge Ryan fan. Where was this 6 weeks ago?


This is pretty funny. Until the Jets first playoff win I don't recall a whole lot of "we should've fired Rex Ryan" sentiment. Some of these people are so disingenous it boggles the mind.

TonyR
01-18-2010, 08:32 PM
So you view Nolan's failures as a good enough reason to be let go?

You act like he got fired. He didn't.

DBroncos4life
01-18-2010, 08:35 PM
You act like he got fired. He didn't.

We put up a damn good fight to keep him. He coach I was thinking about interviewing for the Miami DC job is that OK with you? Well sure the Patriots just let Pees go so I was going to **** can you anyways. What a mutual agreement this is!

Paladin
01-18-2010, 10:21 PM
He only gave up 30, Mcdaniels and Orton gave up 14. You can't really blame the defensive coordinator for the QB throwing two pick six interceptions.


You actually work at being stupid? That is the dumbest statement I've heard outside anything bpc or the Dave says..... You are in bad company.

Paladin
01-18-2010, 10:35 PM
We put up a damn good fight to keep him. He coach I was thinking about interviewing for the Miami DC job is that OK with you? Well sure the Patriots just let Pees go so I was going to **** can you anyways. What a mutual agreement this is!

You tell yourself stories like this all the time? You have not a frealkng clue what was said in that meeting. Not a single clue. Fantasize away......


Hilarious!

barryr
01-19-2010, 05:38 AM
The Pats' secondary has been a weak spot for a number of years, but typically find a way to hide it.

I liked Nolan, but the defense did not do well at the end of the season. I had stated many times I didn't think Nolan had all the pieces he would want yet for his defense, so getting more talent is obviously a big need, especially on the DL.

BroncoInferno
01-19-2010, 05:48 AM
I am pretty surprised by this. I know the D struggled more in the second half of the season, but I think anyone objectively looking at things had to expect that. The talent was never there and it seemed Nolan was getting it done with smoke and mirrors at the beginning of the season. It's hard to mask a talent deficient squad for a full 16 game season, not after giving the opposition film to look at. Still, even with the late season collapse the defense was still much improved over the abortion of recent seasons. Maybe Nolan and McD just didn't get along? In any case, Pees is a solid option for a replacement. Belichek scapegoated him this season. He lost veteran leaders like Seymour and Vrabel and was left with a young, inexperienced defense. Despite that, they finished 5th in the league in scoring defense.

WolfpackGuy
01-19-2010, 05:50 AM
The talent was never there and it seemed Nolan was getting it done with smoke and mirrors at the beginning of the season. It's hard to mask a talent deficient squad for a full 16 game season, not after giving the opposition film to look at. Still, even with the late season collapse the defense was still much improved over the abortion of recent seasons.

Amen

WolfpackGuy
01-19-2010, 06:00 AM
I thought this Pees guy had health problems anyways before Belicheat chased him off?

RaiderH8r
01-19-2010, 06:04 AM
There was a **** ton more genius in getting Denver's D to perform like it did than I saw from the McKid offensive playbook all year.

missingnumber7
01-19-2010, 06:29 AM
New HC same old crap...are we trying to set a record for most DC's gone through in a 10 year period? I love how the best piece of coaching is now gone from this staff...love it.

Gob
01-19-2010, 06:43 AM
There was a **** ton more genius in getting Denver's D to perform like it did than I saw from the McKid offensive playbook all year.

It boggles the mind that the same people argue
1- Losing Nolan is no big deal, his defense was only better then last years for half the season, then it looked like last years again.
2- McDaniels is doing fine on offense and needs more time and better talent on the line, our scoring is only slightly worse then last year.

I guess it is worse to bring a team up then collapse then to never improve it at all. Either that, or we get the argument that McDaniels had a hand in the defense and was really what caused the improvement until the collapse - when it was all Nolan.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 06:53 AM
He only gave up 30, Mcdaniels and Orton gave up 14. You can't really blame the defensive coordinator for the QB throwing two pick six interceptions.

ONLY 30? Well, then.

TheDave
01-19-2010, 06:57 AM
People who are trying to pin the KC loss on nolan need to rewatch the game. It wasn't a scheme issue, it was a front 7 unwilling to take on blocks and play like they had for most of the season. In this type of defense, when guys like Marcus Thomas and DJ are trying to run around their blocks GAPPING holes are created... Thats what killed us.

Rohirrim
01-19-2010, 07:00 AM
I am pretty surprised by this. I know the D struggled more in the second half of the season, but I think anyone objectively looking at things had to expect that. The talent was never there and it seemed Nolan was getting it done with smoke and mirrors at the beginning of the season. It's hard to mask a talent deficient squad for a full 16 game season, not after giving the opposition film to look at. Still, even with the late season collapse the defense was still much improved over the abortion of recent seasons. Maybe Nolan and McD just didn't get along? In any case, Pees is a solid option for a replacement. Belichek scapegoated him this season. He lost veteran leaders like Seymour and Vrabel and was left with a young, inexperienced defense. Despite that, they finished 5th in the league in scoring defense.

This take is far too reasonable for this board. STFU and get out of here. ;D

Gob
01-19-2010, 07:10 AM
He only gave up 30, Mcdaniels and Orton gave up 14. You can't really blame the defensive coordinator for the QB throwing two pick six interceptions.

I don't know, it worked pretty well deflecting attention away from Cutler the whole time he was here (and it is the current favorite excuse for the Bears fans, aside from blaming the O-line), I don't see why it won't do the same for McDaniels and Orton.

RaiderH8r
01-19-2010, 07:35 AM
It boggles the mind that the same people argue
1- Losing Nolan is no big deal, his defense was only better then last years for half the season, then it looked like last years again.
2- McDaniels is doing fine on offense and needs more time and better talent on the line, our scoring is only slightly worse then last year.

I guess it is worse to bring a team up then collapse then to never improve it at all. Either that, or we get the argument that McDaniels had a hand in the defense and was really what caused the improvement until the collapse - when it was all Nolan.

Indeed. Rarely do you see a coach turn around such an abysmal unit in such fashion. His schemes were figured out? Well, with such good scheming with such poor personnel that also put Dumervil in position to lead the league in sacks, I'll take that guy and let him build the talent to make his schemes work all year long.

Meanwhile, our HC is intent on shipping out talent in search of I don't know what. It is a remarkable bed crapping.

Broncos4tw
01-19-2010, 07:55 AM
People pushing this onto Nolan just makes me fugging laugh. Go back and look at the play-by-plays for all those losses. There is a common theme in those games. It goes like this:

Broncos:
1st and 10 - Sack for -8 yards
2nd and 18 - Orton pass for 2 yard
3rd and 16 - Orton pass for 5 yards
4th: PUNT!

next drive...

Broncos:
1st and 10 - Run for 5 yards
2nd and 5 - Orton incomplete pass
3rd and 5 - Run for -2 yards
4th: PUNT!

Oh.. those were the actual first two drives against the Ravens, our first loss. And if you watched the games (or if you missed them, make sure to go look at the play-by-play), you'll notice a sad pattern of 3 or 5 and outs. Our defense was on the field for long stretches at a time. You are surprised they got scored on? It's demoralizing as hell, not to mention tiring, when your offense doesn't do jack, and back out you go.

The reality is they didn't figure out our D.. they figured out OUR line, and our running game. Stacked the line. Put it all on Orton's shoulders. Who failed miserably, repeatedly.

But noooo... can't be that. McDaniel's is a frigging GOD of football! Sheff and Co. are obviously THUGS who deserve to be ****canned. Nolan, you clearly SUCK. Our HC with one whole year of football obviously knows how to call defense better than YOU dude, get out of town! Orton is a QBing GOD! Thank goodness he is coming back.. WHEW! I was worried we might start being productive on offense, but no worries there. Orton in, Marshall, and probably Sheff and Royal gone.. we can only go up from here baby!

The lengths people go to, to defend this guy is staggering.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 07:57 AM
People pushing this onto Nolan just makes me fugging laugh. Go back and look at the play-by-plays for all those losses. There is a common theme in those games. It goes like this:

Broncos:
1st and 10 - Sack for -8 yards
2nd and 18 - Orton pass for 2 yard
3rd and 16 - Orton pass for 5 yards
4th: PUNT!

next drive...

Broncos:
1st and 10 - Run for 5 yards
2nd and 5 - Orton incomplete pass
3rd and 5 - Run for -2 yards
4th: PUNT!

Oh.. those were the actual first two drives against the Ravens, our first loss. And if you watched the games (or if you missed them, make sure to go look at the play-by-play), you'll notice a sad pattern of 3 or 5 and outs. Our defense was on the field for long stretches at a time. You are surprised they got scored on? It's demoralizing as hell, not to mention tiring, when your offense doesn't do jack, and back out you go.

The reality is they didn't figure out our D.. they figured out OUR line, and our running game. Stacked the line. Put it all on Orton's shoulders. Who failed miserably, repeatedly.

But noooo... can't be that. McDaniel's is a frigging GOD of football! Sheff and Co. are obviously THUGS who deserve to be ****canned. Nolan, you clearly SUCK. Our HC with one whole year of football obviously knows how to call defense better than YOU dude, get out of town! Orton is a QBing GOD! Thank goodness he is coming back.. WHEW! I was worried we might start being productive on offense, but no worries there. Orton in, Marshall, and probably Sheff and Royal gone.. we can only go up from here baby!

The lengths people go to, to defend this guy is staggering.

The **** that you make up is incredible.

Look man, it's about BOTH sides of the football, and in the second half of the season, our D didn't perform well. Is it all on Nolan? Of course not! But he was interested in leaving, and ended up leaving.

I know you want to put all the blame on McDaniels, but when you look at it logically, that just doesn't make sense.

RaiderH8r
01-19-2010, 08:24 AM
The **** that you make up is incredible.

Look man, it's about BOTH sides of the football, and in the second half of the season, our D didn't perform well. Is it all on Nolan? Of course not! But he was interested in leaving, and ended up leaving.

I know you want to put all the blame on McDaniels, but when you look at it logically, that just doesn't make sense.

Yeah, how can you put the responsibility for running the team on the guy who's responsible for running the team? It's ludicrous!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-19-2010, 08:26 AM
Yeah, how can you put the responsibility for running the team on the guy who's responsible for running the team? It's ludicrous!

You're right. Let's blame EVERYTHING on ONE half of the ball when clearly both sides were not getting it done. Brilliant.

WolfpackGuy
01-19-2010, 08:29 AM
Opponents times of possession for the last 10 games...

(L) Ravens 33:37
Offense did NOTHING
Defense broke down in the second half

(L) Steelers 33:03
Offense did NOTHING
Defense broke down in the second half

(L) Redskins 35:43 (somewhat inflated because of Broncos 2 long TD's)
Offense did NOTHING after Orton was hurt
Defense broke down in the second half

(L) Chuggers 37:52 <-- (WOW)
Offense scored 3 points
Defense gave up a lot of points on short drives

(W) Giants 24:30
Offense 2-5 in redzone
Defense held Giants to 6

(W) Cheaps 24:05
The offense won this
Defense sent Cassel to the bench

(L) Colts 28:33
Offense waited until being down 21-0 to wake up and couldn't convert short yardage for schit
Defense shut the Colts down for 2.5 quarters

(L) Faiders 31:26
Offense 1-4 in the redzone. This should've been over early.
Defense got its ass kicked

(L) Eagles 30:43
Offense waited until being down 27-10 to wake up
Defense shut Eagles down in the second half

(L) Cheaps 26:57
Offense put up 30 first downs and 500+ yards, but also threw 2 TD's to KFC
Defense got its ass kicked

I'm not totally absolving the defense, but the general theme is the offense hung the defense out to dry TOO many times.

RaiderH8r
01-19-2010, 08:46 AM
You're right. Let's blame EVERYTHING on ONE half of the ball when clearly both sides were not getting it done. Brilliant.

As HC McKid gets the whole enchilada of blame. He wants to make bold moves he better get bold results. 8-8 is not bold, it is mediocrity. 2-8 after the bye is a bold statement of sucktitude.

bendog
01-19-2010, 08:58 AM
I don't really agree he gets all the blame. But with three no 1 picks, I still don't get the impression this team is on the upswing, and I thought the offense was regaining its momentum in shanny's last year. In 08 they improved, and had the long ball back, but they couldn't run inside consistently even with Hillis. If anything, its been a regression.

But if Ayers and the too short cornerback pan out, the guy's a genius.

vancejohnson82
01-19-2010, 09:18 AM
Opponents times of possession for the last 10 games...

(L) Ravens 33:37
Offense did NOTHING
Defense broke down in the second half

(L) Steelers 33:03
Offense did NOTHING
Defense broke down in the second half

(L) Redskins 35:43 (somewhat inflated because of Broncos 2 long TD's)
Offense did NOTHING after Orton was hurt
Defense broke down in the second half

(L) Chuggers 37:52 <-- (WOW)
Offense scored 3 points
Defense gave up a lot of points on short drives

(W) Giants 24:30
Offense 2-5 in redzone
Defense held Giants to 6

(W) Cheaps 24:05
The offense won this
Defense sent Cassel to the bench

(L) Colts 28:33
Offense waited until being down 21-0 to wake up and couldn't convert short yardage for schit
Defense shut the Colts down for 2.5 quarters

(L) Faiders 31:26
Offense 1-4 in the redzone. This should've been over early.
Defense got its ass kicked

(L) Eagles 30:43
Offense waited until being down 27-10 to wake up
Defense shut Eagles down in the second half

(L) Cheaps 26:57
Offense put up 30 first downs and 500+ yards, but also threw 2 TD's to KFC
Defense got its ass kicked

I'm not totally absolving the defense, but the general theme is the offense hung the defense out to dry TOO many times.


This is how the Jets play too....they try and hide their QB weakness and rely on their running game and defense to get it done...don't make mistakes and hope to get some breaks....thats what MARGINALLY TALENTED teams do...try and play to your strengths

PRBronco
01-19-2010, 09:22 AM
I don't really agree he gets all the blame. But with three no 1 picks, I still don't get the impression this team is on the upswing, and I thought the offense was regaining its momentum in shanny's last year. In 08 they improved, and had the long ball back, but they couldn't run inside consistently even with Hillis. If anything, its been a regression.

But if Ayers and the too short cornerback pan out, the guy's a genius.

No chance in hell a 5'-9" guy can play corner in the nfl. Just cut him now IMO.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/19/vikings-add-another-pro-bowler/

Rulon Velvet Jones
01-19-2010, 09:27 AM
How the hell did Winfield make the Pro Bowl?

TheDave
01-19-2010, 09:27 AM
No chance in hell a 5'-9" guy can play corner in the nfl. Just cut him now IMO.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/19/vikings-add-another-pro-bowler/

Unfortunately our 5'9" corner got replaced by an UDFA and a retired player... His height is the least of our issues, his inability to get on the field is the current problem.

Popps
01-19-2010, 09:28 AM
The **** that you make up is incredible.

Look man, it's about BOTH sides of the football, and in the second half of the season, our D didn't perform well.

I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to recognize that both sides struggled.

Nolan isn't being fired. He's just moving on. Is that a reflection of McDaniels being hard to work with? It's possible. We just probably won't really know all the details for a long time.

I personally don't look at this as good news, but I'm also not in panic mode until I see who we hire, either.

RaiderH8r
01-19-2010, 09:29 AM
Unfortunately our 5'9" corner got replaced by an UDFA and a retired player... His height is the least of our issues, his inability to get on the field is the current problem.

Exactly. Our second round pick for a first rounder trade up couldn't beat out the "Man on the Street" or The Ghost of Ty Law's Career. WTF?

RaiderH8r
01-19-2010, 09:30 AM
I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to recognize that both sides struggled.

Nolan isn't being fired. He's just moving on. Is that a reflection of McDaniels being hard to work with? It's possible. We just probably won't really know all the details for a long time.

I personally don't look at this as good news, but I'm also not in panic mode until I see who we hire, either.

I think Nolan can see the iceberg and is getting off of McKid's Titanic before the ship goes down.

bendog
01-19-2010, 09:30 AM
I didn't lable him too short. I said if the guy turns out to be a player, lil josh is a genius.

I don't think it's gonna happen, but it might.

TheDave
01-19-2010, 09:31 AM
Exactly. Our second round pick for a first rounder trade up couldn't beat out the "Man on the Street" or The Ghost of Ty Law's Career. WTF?

You think it hurts now... Wait until Seattle is on the clock @ #14.

SureShot
01-19-2010, 09:34 AM
You think it hurts now... Wait until Seattle is on the clock @ #14.

Nah we will trade Marshall to get our pick back. All is good.

PRBronco
01-19-2010, 09:47 AM
How the hell did Winfield make the Pro Bowl?

I think Rodgers-Cromartie's knee exploded on the weekend.

RaiderH8r
01-19-2010, 10:05 AM
You think it hurts now... Wait until Seattle is on the clock @ #14.

http://cdn2.knowyourmeme.com/i/15945/original/Double_Facepalm_by_ScotlandForLife.jpg

Broncos4tw
01-19-2010, 10:41 AM
Well, the Jets have the one thing you need to succeed, if you don't have a franchise QB. Well two things.

We have in the final four: Favre, Manning, Brees.. and a Jets team that has the #1 ranked D, AND the #1 ranked rushing offense in the league. If you have that, you can win. You keep the opponent from moving the ball, you keep the ball for long spells... if you can do that, you can win. But those teams are few and far between.

vancejohnson82
01-19-2010, 10:45 AM
Well, the Jets have the one thing you need to succeed, if you don't have a franchise QB. Well two things.

We have in the final four: Favre, Manning, Brees.. and a Jets team that has the #1 ranked D, AND the #1 ranked rushing offense in the league. If you have that, you can win. You keep the opponent from moving the ball, you keep the ball for long spells... if you can do that, you can win. But those teams are few and far between.

but the Jets have trouble doing that at times.....and look a lot like our offense for long stretches....3 and outs...boring playcalls...bubble screens. Brian Schottenheimer was under a lot of heat during their losing streak...

my point is that there are other teams who are content to NOT turn the ball over and put their D on the field for big bunches...ours just wasnt good enough

gyldenlove
01-19-2010, 10:50 AM
How the hell did Winfield make the Pro Bowl?

The Vikings fans stuffed the ballot box, they have a million pro bowlers.

gyldenlove
01-19-2010, 10:56 AM
I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to recognize that both sides struggled.

Nolan isn't being fired. He's just moving on. Is that a reflection of McDaniels being hard to work with? It's possible. We just probably won't really know all the details for a long time.

I personally don't look at this as good news, but I'm also not in panic mode until I see who we hire, either.

Quite clearly some suggestions must have been made last season when hiring Nolan as to how much Mcdaniels would be involved in the defense - and quite clearly there was either a misunderstanding between the two or Mcdaniels didn't give Nolan as much influence as he said he would have, we don't know.

Nolan told Mcdaniels that either there was a misunderstanding and he couldn't live with not having more autonomy or that Mcdaniels failed to live up to the promises of last year, either way Nolan couldn't keep on being the DC here and Mcdaniels agreed to release him from his contract - interestingly this is the kind of thing the GM would normally deal with, but I guess Mcdaniels forgot to pulls Xanders' strings.

BroncoInferno
01-19-2010, 03:04 PM
Unfortunately our 5'9" corner got replaced by an UDFA and a retired player... His height is the least of our issues, his inability to get on the field is the current problem.

C'mon, Dave. You are smart guy; you know as well as I do that it is quite common for player to produce little as rookies and then develop into productive players. Declaring anyone for the 2009 draft class a failed pick at this point is clearly premature.

TheDave
01-19-2010, 03:08 PM
C'mon, Dave. You are smart guy; you know as well as I do that it is quite common for player to produce little as rookies and then develop into productive players. Declaring anyone for the 2009 draft class a failed pick at this point is clearly premature.

That's why I said "Current Problem" and avoided the words "Failed Pick"

But even you have to admit... It doesn't look so good right now.

The MVPlaya
01-19-2010, 03:10 PM
c'mon, dave. You are smart guy; you know as well as i do that it is quite common for player to produce little as rookies and then develop into productive players. Declaring anyone for the 2009 draft class a failed pick at this point is clearly premature.

+1

BroncoInferno
01-19-2010, 03:42 PM
That's why I said "Current Problem" and avoided the words "Failed Pick"

But even you have to admit... It doesn't look so good right now.

No, I don't admit that. I said all along during the Hillis debates that I thought that the problem in the running game was pure blocking and not an issue with the running backs. Moreno showed me enough talent that I think he will come around if we upgrade the interior line and bring in a OL coach more suited to the power blocking scheme McD wants to establish. Ayers development is right on par with what you would typically expect from a rookie playing new position. He showed flashes of talent at times and looked confused at others. Jury is still out, but there are encouraging signs. Smith showed less than either of the two, so obviously that causes concern. However, I'm not going to get too worried until we see what kind of improvement he shows in year two. In short, the jury is still out but failure does not look more anymore likely than success overall at this point as you seem to suggest.

Popps
01-19-2010, 04:02 PM
Quite clearly some suggestions must have been made last season when hiring Nolan as to how much Mcdaniels would be involved in the defense - and quite clearly there was either a misunderstanding between the two or Mcdaniels didn't give Nolan as much influence as he said he would have, we don't know.

Nolan told Mcdaniels that either there was a misunderstanding and he couldn't live with not having more autonomy or that Mcdaniels failed to live up to the promises of last year, either way Nolan couldn't keep on being the DC here and Mcdaniels agreed to release him from his contract - interestingly this is the kind of thing the GM would normally deal with, but I guess Mcdaniels forgot to pulls Xanders' strings.

Again, Mike Shanahan ran his organization the exact same way. So does Bill B..

McDaniels is going to put the players, coaches and systems in place that he feels will help the team win. He's not an unconfident man. You don't have to like it, but it is what it is.

We have a coach who is very similar to Mike Shanahan, folks. He's not worried about your opinions. He's worried about winning.

TheDave
01-19-2010, 08:58 PM
. Smith showed less than either of the two, so obviously that causes concern. However, I'm not going to get too worried until we see what kind of improvement he shows in year two. In short, the jury is still out but failure does not look more anymore likely than success overall at this point as you seem to suggest.

and that is the only person we are talking about... I said you have to admit, it doesn't look so good. You disagreed with that, but then admited that his performance "causes concern"... you're splitting hairs here.

Being replaced on the depth chart by an UDFA and a retired player are bad signs... rookie or not.

ZONA
01-19-2010, 09:46 PM
He only gave up 30, Mcdaniels and Orton gave up 14. You can't really blame the defensive coordinator for the QB throwing two pick six interceptions.

True. And you can't say McD helped give up 14 points on those 2 plays either. That's all Orton baby.

Bigdawg26
01-19-2010, 10:29 PM
Well in McDaniels defense Shanny's picks weren't all that good either (i.e. George Foster, Paul Tavessi, Deltha O'neal, Willie Middlebrooks, Marcus Nash, etc). Outside of the Culter, Marshall, Kuper, and Dumervil draft our drafts have sucked for the past couple of years!!

SureShot
01-19-2010, 10:33 PM
Alphonso Smith next Jarvis Moss

TheDave
01-19-2010, 10:38 PM
Well in McDaniels defense Shanny's picks weren't all that good either (i.e. George Foster, Paul Tavessi, Deltha O'neal, Willie Middlebrooks, Marcus Nash, etc). Outside of the Culter, Marshall, Kuper, and Dumervil draft our drafts have sucked for the past couple of years!!

I don't see too many people defending Shanny and his draft picks... Though he did hit the mother load in 2006, his run between 2000 and 2005 was some of the worst drafting I've ever seen.

tsiguy96
01-20-2010, 12:03 AM
Alphonso Smith next Jarvis Moss

id give him til his second year to show signs of life, but hes looked horrible so far. im betting everyone wished we didnt make that pick except alphonso. but all hope is not lost.

broncosteven
01-20-2010, 01:05 AM
Again, Mike Shanahan ran his organization the exact same way. So does Bill B..

McDaniels is going to put the players, coaches and systems in place that he feels will help the team win. He's not an unconfident man. You don't have to like it, but it is what it is.

We have a coach who is very similar to Mike Shanahan, folks. He's not worried about your opinions. He's worried about winning.

Ya but Shanny knew how to play to players strengths and get more out of them, that stoked his ego even more and his growing ego helped speed the change but so far McD has not played to his players strength especially in the Indy game where he ran the same Power play at least 3 times to the right with Knoshon in order to establish an identy. THis is who we are now stop us! and the last 4 teams did.

McD may be more like Shanny in another 6-12 years but he is still way too young to be running a team at 33 with little College and just what 5 years as an assistant?

Even Shanny knew it was better to go to San Fran pickup some new ideas, have time to tweak his old ideas after Oakland and then after 2 years and winning a SB with 49ers he came to Denver.

It is always nice to have lots of talent at every position but good coaches can mask that by executing as a TEAM and playing to everyones strenghts.

Read Wooden on Leadership or any other titles John Wooden has written. Good stuff about player managment and getting the best out of them.

TonyR
01-20-2010, 06:37 AM
Ya but Shanny knew how to play to players strengths and get more out of them...

Who got more out of Doom, McD/Nolan in '09 or Shanny/Slowik in '08? Be careful painting with that broad brush of yours.