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lostknight
01-18-2010, 04:21 PM
Anyone seen a pattern yet. I've been a critic of McDaniels, but have stated over and over that he needs to have a full two years to prove himself. But Mike Nolan leaving was the last straw.

Let's look at who McDaniels has torched, and the organization has later villified:
Jeremy Bates - left because McDaniels wanted to run the offense.
Goodmans - fired because McDaniels wanted to trade cutler and run the draft.
Cutler - traded because McDaniels thought he could find a franchise QB Scheffler - attempted traded, badmouthed in the press, still our most productive TE.
Royal - couldn't find a use for him, because NE england doesn't have a short fast wide receiver.
Hillis - Pulled for Lamont Jordan.
Marshall - Badmouthed in the press. Attempting to trade.
Nolan - left because McDaniels wanted to run the defense.

Things have gone full circle have they not? He clearly has learned nothing from the ****ing disaster that was his attempt at playing at both HC and OC. Last years draft was a disaster because he was both HC and GM. Now he wants to be HC, GM and DC?

Maybe I want him to stick around for another season, just so we can interview and grab Jeremy Bates as HC (which Mike was grooming him for).

What a disaster. This year was the first year that I put all of my sports entertainment dollars to the Rockies for games, and watched Broncos on the tube. Next year will be the second.

Ray Finkle
01-18-2010, 04:25 PM
Anyone seen a pattern yet. I've been a critic of McDaniels, but have stated over and over that he needs to have a full two years to prove himself. But Mike Nolan leaving was the last straw.

Let's look at who McDaniels has torched, and the organization has later villified:
Jeremy Bates - left because McDaniels wanted to run the offense.
Goodmans - fired because McDaniels wanted to trade cutler and run the draft.
Cutler - traded because McDaniels thought he could find a franchise QB Scheffler - attempted traded, badmouthed in the press, still our most productive TE.
Royal - couldn't find a use for him, because NE england doesn't have a short fast wide receiver.
Hillis - Pulled for Lamont Jordan.
Marshall - Badmouthed in the press. Attempting to trade.
Nolan - left because McDaniels wanted to run the defense.

Things have gone full circle have they not? He clearly has learned nothing from the ****ing disaster that was his attempt at playing at both HC and OC. Last years draft was a disaster because he was both HC and GM. Now he wants to be HC, GM and DC?

Maybe I want him to stick around for another season, just so we can interview and grab Jeremy Bates as HC (which Mike was grooming him for).

What a disaster. This year was the first year that I put all of my sports entertainment dollars to the Rockies for games, and watched Broncos on the tube. Next year will be the second.

Why would you keep a OC that is buddy buddy with your star QB and will undermine you? Bates is a joke....USC was a shell of it's former self with him there.

Rohirrim
01-18-2010, 04:26 PM
Dump a bucket of ice water on your head. Your hair's on fire.

Pony Boy
01-18-2010, 04:28 PM
Did I miss something when did Scheffler, Royal, Hillis, Marshall get traded....

PRBronco
01-18-2010, 04:28 PM
Oh wow...

DBroncos4life
01-18-2010, 04:29 PM
Why would you keep a OC that is buddy buddy with your star QB and will undermine you? Bates is a joke....USC was a shell of it's former self with him there.

That sure explains why ol' Pete took him with him to coach the Seahawks.

Archer81
01-18-2010, 04:30 PM
Nolan left?


:Broncos:

Ray Finkle
01-18-2010, 04:31 PM
That sure explains why ol' Pete took him with him to coach the Seahawks.

Rich Koytite (spelling)? was hired many times....Jerry Glanville was hired many times, Bob Slowik has been hired many times.....doesn't mean they are any good.

DBroncos4life
01-18-2010, 04:34 PM
Rich Koytite (spelling)? was hired many times....Jerry Glanville was hired many times, Bob Slowik has been hired many times.....doesn't mean they are any good.

Well if that's the case I guess he sucks because those guys got jobs repeatedly.

The MVPlaya
01-18-2010, 04:41 PM
Jumping to conclusions too early are we? lol

It's nice to forget the fact that McDaniels BROUGHT him here... so I wouldn't necessarily say he's RIPPNG the team apart after 1 year of not making the playoffs...

vancejohnson82
01-18-2010, 04:42 PM
haha....my favorite was this:

Hillis - benched for Jordan...

so stupid...

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 04:48 PM
Anyone seen a pattern yet. I've been a critic of McDaniels, but have stated over and over that he needs to have a full two years to prove himself. But Mike Nolan leaving was the last straw.

Let's look at who McDaniels has torched, and the organization has later villified:
Jeremy Bates - left because McDaniels wanted to run the offense.
Goodmans - fired because McDaniels wanted to trade cutler and run the draft.
Cutler - traded because McDaniels thought he could find a franchise QB Scheffler - attempted traded, badmouthed in the press, still our most productive TE.
Royal - couldn't find a use for him, because NE england doesn't have a short fast wide receiver.
Hillis - Pulled for Lamont Jordan.
Marshall - Badmouthed in the press. Attempting to trade.
Nolan - left because McDaniels wanted to run the defense.

Things have gone full circle have they not? He clearly has learned nothing from the ****ing disaster that was his attempt at playing at both HC and OC. Last years draft was a disaster because he was both HC and GM. Now he wants to be HC, GM and DC?

Maybe I want him to stick around for another season, just so we can interview and grab Jeremy Bates as HC (which Mike was grooming him for).

What a disaster. This year was the first year that I put all of my sports entertainment dollars to the Rockies for games, and watched Broncos on the tube. Next year will be the second.

It's an unmistakeabble pattern ... the Cutler debacle is looking very different now in hindsight.

Popps
01-18-2010, 04:49 PM
Lulz at putting Hillis in that list.

Look, this doesn't look good. But, we also don't have all of the data on this story. God forbid we got all the info before panicking.

elsid13
01-18-2010, 04:50 PM
Why would you keep a OC that is buddy buddy with your star QB and will undermine you? Bates is a joke....USC was a shell of it's former self with him there.

As much as I hate U$C, starting a Freshman QB and new starting line, Bates did a good job with that offense. Bates is fair better coach then most on this board give him credit for.

Archer81
01-18-2010, 04:50 PM
It's an unmistakeabble pattern ... the Cutler debacle is looking very different now in hindsight.


Not really. It looks exactly as it did this time yesterday.


:Broncos:

Gob
01-18-2010, 04:51 PM
Why would you keep a OC that is buddy buddy with your star QB and will undermine you? Bates is a joke....USC was a shell of it's former self with him there.

Well, getting rid of both of them took care of that problem for sure.

Inkana7
01-18-2010, 05:10 PM
Really, dude, Royal?

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 05:14 PM
Really, dude, Royal?

I'm on board with that one ... people say it's a "sophomore slump," but I don't buy that.

If we'd thrown his way more, there would be no "slump" ... it's not like he dropped a boatload of balls, he didn't botch his chances. You only get the touches the playcaller gives you, and Josh chose Marshall and Gaffney ahead of Eddie.

UberBroncoMan
01-18-2010, 05:14 PM
Lulz at putting Hillis in that list.

Look, this doesn't look good. But, we also don't have all of the data on this story. God forbid we got all the info before panicking.

When you start accumulating enough stats to formulate a pattern it becomes obvious... and it has been for a while. This is just icing on the cake.

W/E after last season nothing that goes on this off-season will surprise me or get me down.

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 05:17 PM
Not really. It looks exactly as it did this time yesterday.


:Broncos:

I dunno ... I disagree. I think.

It's looking now as if Jay was just Chapter One in this whole drama.

Archer81
01-18-2010, 05:22 PM
I dunno ... I disagree. I think.

It's looking now as if Jay was just Chapter One in this whole drama.


Jay created his own drama. He would not return phone calls of the owner, and purposely went through intermediaries rather than meet with Bowlen or McDaniels face to face. When you have your dad turn your playbook in, then clearly there is a maturity issue on the part of the player. Nolan wants to coach in Miami apparently, McDaniels decided to let him go. Its not some epic struggle for control that is being imagined in Broncos fandom. Two Shanahan coaches were let go. The Broncos players who have issues with McDaniels are the same 2 fools that had problems early in the year. Where is the team wide outcry that McDaniels is horrible and should be let go? No argument being made in regards to Tiny Titan McDaniels is holding any water or making any sense.

:Broncos:

Stormontheplains
01-18-2010, 05:23 PM
Mcd is putting himself before the franchise and fans. It's his way or the highway, I just don't think he knows what his way is. He must be a huge ass, assistant coaches are wanting either stabilaty, or the head job. They must think he is not stable and they will sink with him if they stay waiting for the head gig. Kid needs to go back to NE.

SoDak Bronco
01-18-2010, 05:26 PM
I know why we did this. DJ Williams requested another position change, and we didn't want to end the streak of him playing nearly every LB position possible.

Florida_Bronco
01-18-2010, 05:35 PM
Let's look at who McDaniels has torched, and the organization has later villified:

Jeremy Bates - left because McDaniels wanted to run the offense. A very subpar play caller who tried to mimic McDaniels offense in 2008. We hired the real deal, so what point would there have been to keeping Bates?

Goodmans - fired because McDaniels wanted to trade cutler and run the draft. Incorrect. Bowlen himself said he fired the Goodmans because Jeff and Xanders didn't get along and he didn't want to put Jim in the situation of choosing the team over his son.

It was a pretty classy move on Bowlen's part. If Jim had not been fired and instead basically forced to resign, he would have lost his salary for the year.


Cutler - traded because McDaniels thought he could find a franchise QB Credible sources claimed he wanted to be traded the minute Bates and Shanny were let go, then he forced his way out of town because he believed McD tried to trade him despite all the evidence pointing in the other direction.

Scheffler - attempted traded, badmouthed in the press, still our most productive TE. I never found a credible source claiming that we tried to trade Scheffler. Media only badmouthed him after it came out that he was wishing for the season to be over while the team was still fighting for a playoff spot.

Royal - couldn't find a use for him, because NE england doesn't have a short fast wide receiver. Royal should be playing the role Wes Welker does, but he's the only receiver we have with deep speed. New England has Moss for that role and we had to try to wedge Royal between the two.

Hillis - Pulled for Lamont Jordan. Because he made costly fumbles and routinely didn't know where to line up.

Marshall - Badmouthed in the press. Attempting to trade. Caught on film acting like a child during practice. Has a rap sheet as long as my arm. Apparently was so out of line at the end of the season that SEVERAL veterans asked McD to do something about it.

Nolan - left because McDaniels wanted to run the defense. Nolan has run a defense much different than what Josh came up under in New England.

Things have gone full circle have they not? He clearly has learned nothing from the ****ing disaster that was his attempt at playing at both HC and OC. Last years draft was a disaster because he was both HC and GM. Now he wants to be HC, GM and DC? Might want to get your facts straight before you make such declarations.

Maybe I want him to stick around for another season, just so we can interview and grab Jeremy Bates as HC (which Mike was grooming him for). Why would you want Bates? He's got exactly one season as an NFL OC in which he tried to imitate the guy we have now and did a pretty poor job of it.

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 05:37 PM
Jay created his own drama. He would not return phone calls of the owner, and purposely went through intermediaries rather than meet with Bowlen or McDaniels face to face. When you have your dad turn your playbook in, then clearly there is a maturity issue on the part of the player. Nolan wants to coach in Miami apparently, McDaniels decided to let him go. Its not some epic struggle for control that is being imagined in Broncos fandom. Two Shanahan coaches were let go. The Broncos players who have issues with McDaniels are the same 2 fools that had problems early in the year. Where is the team wide outcry that McDaniels is horrible and should be let go? No argument being made in regards to Tiny Titan McDaniels is holding any water or making any sense.

:Broncos:

Very valid points ... Jay was a real crybaby, no doubt.

But that doesn't mean he didn't have a valid reason to be upset.

DenverBrit
01-18-2010, 05:41 PM
Anyone seen a pattern yet. I've been a critic of McDaniels, but have stated over and over that he needs to have a full two years to prove himself. But Mike Nolan leaving was the last straw.

Let's look at who McDaniels has torched, and the organization has later villified:
Jeremy Bates - left because McDaniels wanted to run the offense.
Goodmans - fired because McDaniels wanted to trade cutler and run the draft.
Cutler - traded because McDaniels thought he could find a franchise QB Scheffler - attempted traded, badmouthed in the press, still our most productive TE.
Royal - couldn't find a use for him, because NE england doesn't have a short fast wide receiver.
Hillis - Pulled for Lamont Jordan.
Marshall - Badmouthed in the press. Attempting to trade.
Nolan - left because McDaniels wanted to run the defense.

Things have gone full circle have they not? He clearly has learned nothing from the ****ing disaster that was his attempt at playing at both HC and OC. Last years draft was a disaster because he was both HC and GM. Now he wants to be HC, GM and DC?

Maybe I want him to stick around for another season, just so we can interview and grab Jeremy Bates as HC (which Mike was grooming him for).

What a disaster. This year was the first year that I put all of my sports entertainment dollars to the Rockies for games, and watched Broncos on the tube. Next year will be the second.

I've noticed some posters dumping on McDaniels anytime a story or rumor surfaces.....distorting facts to the point of paranoia.

So yes, I've noticed a pattern.

broncswin
01-18-2010, 05:43 PM
I'm on board with that one ... people say it's a "sophomore slump," but I don't buy that.

If we'd thrown his way more, there would be no "slump" ... it's not like he dropped a boatload of balls, he didn't botch his chances. You only get the touches the playcaller gives you, and Josh chose Marshall and Gaffney ahead of Eddie.

Buff the guy couldn't get open this year, teams had him figured out, second season in the league...I am not saying McD's system had nothing to do with it, but don't you think there was more to Royals struggles than that?

Stormontheplains
01-18-2010, 05:45 PM
Could you please tell me in detail how you rated Bates as subpar play caller, did you have the benefit of the endzone tape the coaches have? Please tell us in facts like you ask for.

Stormontheplains
01-18-2010, 05:47 PM
Buff the guy couldn't get open this year, teams had him figured out, second season in the league...I am not saying McD's system had nothing to do with it, but don't you think there was more to Royals struggles than that?

How could they have figured him out with a different scheme. He was a great route runner right? So the only change was the routes he was running. I would say thats a strike against a coach not utilizing what stregnths royal had. By the way, hows the family

lostknight
01-18-2010, 06:07 PM
A very subpar play caller who tried to mimic McDaniels offense in 2008. We hired the real deal, so what point would there have been to keeping Bates?

Ohh. I don't know. Second best offense in the NFL?


Nolan has run a defense much different than what Josh came up under in New England.


Oh. I don't know. 7th best defense in the NFL?

See a pattern here? If NE did it, use it, had it, he wants it. If it doesn't fit, then it's no good.

Archer81
01-18-2010, 06:42 PM
Ohh. I don't know. Second best offense in the NFL?



Oh. I don't know. 7th best defense in the NFL?

See a pattern here? If NE did it, use it, had it, he wants it. If it doesn't fit, then it's no good.


16th in scoring...or do you get TD's rewarded to you per game depending on total offense ranking?

:Broncos:

DBroncos4life
01-18-2010, 06:47 PM
16th in scoring...or do you get TD's rewarded to you per game depending on total offense ranking?

:Broncos:

I'll take 16th over 20th any season. We scored 370 points in 08 that would have been good for 12th in the NFL this year. The 328 points we scored this year would have been good for 24th place last year.

Archer81
01-18-2010, 06:52 PM
I'll take 16th over 20th any season. We scored 370 points in 08 that would have been good for 12th in the NFL this year. The 328 points we scored this year would have been good for 24th place last year.


If we had a way back machine that might be important. Both seasons we finished 8-8, so I am not sure if its worth bragging about offense in season x vs season y.

:Broncos:

Florida_Bronco
01-18-2010, 06:53 PM
Ohh. I don't know. Second best offense in the NFL? 16th in scoring...or do you get TD's rewarded to you per game depending on total offense ranking? Beat me to it.

Oh. I don't know. 7th best defense in the NFL? Using largely the scheme McD wanted with players he hand picked.

See a pattern here? If NE did it, use it, had it, he wants it. If it doesn't fit, then it's no good. That's what head coaches do. They run the schemes they are comfortable with.

colorado jones
01-18-2010, 06:54 PM
How could they have figured him out with a different scheme. He was a great route runner right? So the only change was the routes he was running. I would say thats a strike against a coach not utilizing what stregnths royal had. By the way, hows the family

I would add that questionable playcalling/ game planning helped Royal regress...

DBroncos4life
01-18-2010, 07:04 PM
If we had a way back machine that might be important. Both seasons we finished 8-8, so I am not sure if its worth bragging about offense in season x vs season y.

:Broncos:

I'm just pointing out that 370 points this year would have put us in a better position to make the playoffs vs 323. People can say what they want about the 16th scoring O last year. 9 points was the difference between 16th and 12th in 08. Prater missing 9 field goals last year didn't help us in scoring at all. He hit on just 73% of his field goals last year. He hit on 85.7% this year. People don't stop and think about some of this before they start trashing last years O which was better in the RZ then this years team despite Cutlers problems in the RZ and we where much better on 3rd downs as well.

Archer81
01-18-2010, 07:11 PM
I'm just pointing out that 370 points this year would have put us in a better position to make the playoffs vs 323. People can say what they want about the 16th scoring O last year. 9 points was the difference between 16th and 12th in 08. Prater missing 9 field goals last year didn't help us in scoring at all. He hit on just 73% of his field goals last year. He hit on 85.7% this year. People don't stop and think about some of this before they start trashing last years O which was better in the RZ then this years team despite Cutlers problems in the RZ and we where much better on 3rd downs as well.


Yet both years we finished with 8 wins. What difference does the offensive ranking make?

:Broncos:

DBroncos4life
01-18-2010, 07:19 PM
Yet both years we finished with 8 wins. What difference does the offensive ranking make?

:Broncos:

Oh I guess you don't think scoring more point during the 09 season would have improved the record. OK my bad.

Archer81
01-18-2010, 07:22 PM
Oh I guess you don't think scoring more point during the 09 season would have improved the record. OK my bad.


Are we moving the argument back into the realm of fantasy? If we are, then of course. We score more points, we probably win more games. On the flip side, of we allow fewer points, we win more games as well. COnsidering no one alive can change reality, why waste the time in a facetious argument?


:Broncos:

DBroncos4life
01-18-2010, 07:26 PM
Are we moving the argument back into the realm of fantasy? If we are, then of course. We score more points, we probably win more games. On the flip side, of we allow fewer points, we win more games as well. COnsidering no one alive can change reality, why waste the time in a facetious argument?


:Broncos:

Then why point out 16th in scoring when someone says we had the second best O in the NFL? All I did was show you that the jump from 16th to 12th was 9 points. Yards matter. We averaged about 63 yards per game less a game this year then we did in 08. That is where our 3 point per game difference came from from 08 to 09.

watermock
01-18-2010, 07:30 PM
Lulz at putting Hillis in that list.

Look, this doesn't look good. But, we also don't have all of the data on this story. God forbid we got all the info before panicking.

Denver is losing 3 more coaches. 2 maybe 4 or 5 players we should keep.

How much more DATA do you need?

Archer81
01-18-2010, 07:31 PM
Then why point out 16th in scoring when someone says we had the second best O in the NFL? All I did was show you that the jump from 16th to 12th was 9 points. Yards matter. We averaged about 63 yards per game less a game this year then we did in 08. That is where our 3 point per game difference came from from 08 to 09.


Because you are attempting to skew the argument. We had the 2nd ranked offense in moving the football that only managed to be 16th in scoring. If you are going to point out last year's offense, there is more to it than moving the ball between the 20s. I am not saying this year's offense was record setting or powerful; it was not. But stating last year's offense was ranked 2nd has no bearing on THIS season. Why not say, well if we had the 1998 offense we would have won X amount of games? Its a fantasy argument. If you are going to bring in last year's offense, you must factor in last year's defense, and adjust the scoring defense accordingly, which more than likely gives us the same net result, and we are exactly where we were last year and this year. 8-8 and out of the playoffs.

:Broncos:

rastaman
01-18-2010, 07:39 PM
Did I miss something when did Scheffler, Royal, Hillis, Marshall get traded....

There are strong indications that btwn 010 and 011 they could all be gone! McD could be gone by 2012.

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 07:41 PM
A very subpar play caller who tried to mimic McDaniels offense in 2008. We hired the real deal, so what point would there have been to keeping Bates?

Incorrect. Bowlen himself said he fired the Goodmans because Jeff and Xanders didn't get along and he didn't want to put Jim in the situation of choosing the team over his son.

It was a pretty classy move on Bowlen's part. If Jim had not been fired and instead basically forced to resign, he would have lost his salary for the year.


Credible sources claimed he wanted to be traded the minute Bates and Shanny were let go, then he forced his way out of town because he believed McD tried to trade him despite all the evidence pointing in the other direction.

I never found a credible source claiming that we tried to trade Scheffler. Media only badmouthed him after it came out that he was wishing for the season to be over while the team was still fighting for a playoff spot.

Royal should be playing the role Wes Welker does, but he's the only receiver we have with deep speed. New England has Moss for that role and we had to try to wedge Royal between the two.

Because he made costly fumbles and routinely didn't know where to line up.

Caught on film acting like a child during practice. Has a rap sheet as long as my arm. Apparently was so out of line at the end of the season that SEVERAL veterans asked McD to do something about it.

Nolan has run a defense much different than what Josh came up under in New England.

Might want to get your facts straight before you make such declarations.

Why would you want Bates? He's got exactly one season as an NFL OC in which he tried to imitate the guy we have now and did a pretty poor job of it.

So many alibis ... your laundry list fails in that it explains too much.

The far more simple explanation is that Josh has poor people skills and is in over his head as a HC.


I agree with you about Jeremy Bates though ... in that Josh was an offensive guy, a very successful offensive guy. Thus he had every right, and probably made the right call in letting Bates go.

jhns
01-18-2010, 07:42 PM
Because you are attempting to skew the argument. We had the 2nd ranked offense in moving the football that only managed to be 16th in scoring. If you are going to point out last year's offense, there is more to it than moving the ball between the 20s. I am not saying this year's offense was record setting or powerful; it was not. But stating last year's offense was ranked 2nd has no bearing on THIS season. Why not say, well if we had the 1998 offense we would have won X amount of games? Its a fantasy argument. If you are going to bring in last year's offense, you must factor in last year's defense, and adjust the scoring defense accordingly, which more than likely gives us the same net result, and we are exactly where we were last year and this year. 8-8 and out of the playoffs.

:Broncos:

You know that isn't accurate. That is a team stat. Why lie to yourself? Does it hurt to know McD is an F up. He has no idea how to run a team. I have no idea what we have against real GMs. Cutler handled that situation bad but there is no reason for him to be gone. Now we don't get the defense we were building. This should be interesting. Luckily I haven't expected much for a while now.

Archer81
01-18-2010, 07:52 PM
You know that isn't accurate. That is a team stat. Why lie to yourself? Does it hurt to know McD is an F up. He has no idea how to run a team. I have no idea what we have against real GMs. Cutler handled that situation bad but there is no reason for him to be gone. Now we don't get the defense we were building. This should be interesting. Luckily I haven't expected much for a while now.


Cutler wanted out. Thats why he is gone.

Why is it when Shanahan changed defensive coordinators at whim, it was fine because Mike knew what type of defense he wanted? When McDaniels does it, it must mean McDaniels did something wrong? Also, why is it lying to myself when I oppose the notion that somehow our offense last year was oh so good? It wasnt. Pretending we had last year's scoring on this year's team is masturbatory nonsense. You cant do it, so why argue it? Would it have changed the result of the entire season? No.


:Broncos:

Beantown Bronco
01-18-2010, 07:52 PM
Then why point out 16th in scoring when someone says we had the second best O in the NFL? All I did was show you that the jump from 16th to 12th was 9 points. Yards matter. We averaged about 63 yards per game less a game this year then we did in 08. That is where our 3 point per game difference came from from 08 to 09.

Nope. The defenses the Broncos faced this season averaged giving up 3 pts less per game than the 2008 opponents did. So, if the 2009 offense faced the same defenses that the 2008 offense did, it's safe to say that they would've scored essentially the same amount of points.

jhns
01-18-2010, 07:56 PM
Cutler wanted out. Thats why he is gone.

Why is it when Shanahan changed defensive coordinators at whim, it was fine because Mike knew what type of defense he wanted? When McDaniels does it, it must mean McDaniels did something wrong? Also, why is it lying to myself when I oppose the notion that somehow our offense last year was oh so good? It wasnt. Pretending we had last year's scoring on this year's team is masturbatory nonsense. You cant do it, so why argue it? Would it have changed the result of the entire season? No.


:Broncos:

The 16th is a team stat, not an offensive stat. We were very productive last season. The fact that you don't have offensive stats to refute that shows how good your argument is. McDaniels screwed up a very good young offense. Now we just lost the defensive coordinator that was responsible for most of our wins this season. He was doing a great job at turning around the worst ever Bronco defense. Shanahan replaced guys when we had horrible defenses. There is a difference. No one like it when good coaches left under Shanahan. I don't know where you get that from.

McDaniels needs to work under a GM that has control. It is that simple. Shanahan may be the same way. I wish we could have had one for both of them at this point. Shanahan needed it to get talent and McDaniels needs it because he has no idea how to run a team and deal with players.

DBroncos4life
01-18-2010, 08:00 PM
Nope. The defenses the Broncos faced this season averaged giving up 3 pts less per game than the 2008 opponents did. So, if the 2009 offense faced the same defenses that the 2008 offense did, it's safe to say that they would've scored essentially the same amount of points.
If you gave the 08 the same field position and turnovers that the 09 D and SP teams gave the 09 O and I think we would be in better shape.

Archer81
01-18-2010, 08:06 PM
The 16th is a team stat, not an offensive stat. We were very productive last season. The fact that you don't have offensive stats to refute that shows how good your argument is. McDaniels screwed up a very good young offense. Now we just lost the defensive coordinator that was responsible for most of our wins this season. He was doing a great job at turning around the worst ever Bronco defense. Shanahan replaced guys when we had horrible defenses. There is a difference. No one like it when good coaches left under Shanahan. I don't know where you get that from.

McDaniels needs to work under a GM that has control. It is that simple. Shanahan may be the same way. I wish we could have had one for both of them at this point. Shanahan needed it to get talent and McDaniels needs it because he has no idea how to run a team and deal with players.


You mean the defense that McDaniels pushed for, staffed by players he signed and brought in?

As for the 2nd paragraph, thats pure opinion. You have 0 proof that McDaniels has a problem with coaches or players, because if that were the case, we would have more evidence of it besides Marshall and Sheffler, who were problems from the day McDaniels was hired.

:Broncos:

jhns
01-18-2010, 08:08 PM
You mean the defense that McDaniels pushed for, staffed by players he signed and brought in?

As for the 2nd paragraph, thats pure opinion. You have 0 proof that McDaniels has a problem with coaches or players, because if that were the case, we would have more evidence of it besides Marshall and Sheffler, who were problems from the day McDaniels was hired.

:Broncos:

You think what you want. I just don't care to support things that are bad for the Broncos. I get not everyone cares though.

Inkana7
01-18-2010, 09:05 PM
I'm on board with that one ... people say it's a "sophomore slump," but I don't buy that.

If we'd thrown his way more, there would be no "slump" ... it's not like he dropped a boatload of balls, he didn't botch his chances. You only get the touches the playcaller gives you, and Josh chose Marshall and Gaffney ahead of Eddie.

All part of a wide-ranging conspiracy to make the team weaker, no doubt.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-18-2010, 09:44 PM
While I'm very disturbed by the McD pattern here, there's some revisionist history going on with this thread.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-18-2010, 09:45 PM
Also, its annoying that some of the anti-mcdaniels camp never expects anyone else to accept responsibility. Was Eddie Royal not always on the field? Jeez, yeah, all mcd's fault.

That said, Mcd isnt exactly my favorite person right now.

Florida_Bronco
01-18-2010, 09:47 PM
So many alibis ... your laundry list fails in that it explains too much. Really? This isn't the courtroom here, Buff. Hell, let's take it line by line.

Bates - He and Shanny both admitted to copying alot of the 07 Pats offense.

Goodmans - Again, from Bowlen's own mouth.

Cutler - Adam Schefter is the bastion of Broncos reporting, and he said that we made no attempts to trade Jay Cutler. You even created a thread on this to calm everyone down when this originally happened.

Scheffler - Again, no credible sources I've found to suggest we tried moving him.

Royal - Basic football X's and O's.

Hillis - If you watched the 2009 season, you watched Hillis suck.

Marshall - Again, it was cut on film

Nolan - Nolan himself said that Josh had him run a more aggressive scheme and picked the players.

The far more simple explanation is that Josh has poor people skills and is in over his head as a HC. Then why did so many players come to Denver to play under him?

The only people who we know he had issues with are Cutler and Scheffler. Scheffler's statements are indefensible, and even by your own admission Cutler was a crybaby who received to meet with McDaniels and resolve the issue.

Maybe the issue is with those people, not McDaniels.

TDmvp
01-18-2010, 09:54 PM
Really? This isn't the courtroom here, Buff. Hell, let's take it line by line.

Bates - He and Shanny both admitted to copying alot of the 07 Pats offense.

Goodmans - Again, from Bowlen's own mouth.

Cutler - Adam Schefter is the bastion of Broncos reporting, and he said that we made no attempts to trade Jay Cutler. You even created a thread on this to calm everyone down when this originally happened.

Scheffler - Again, no credible sources I've found to suggest we tried moving him.

Royal - Basic football X's and O's.

Hillis - If you watched the 2009 season, you watched Hillis suck.

Marshall - Again, it was cut on film

Nolan - Nolan himself said that Josh had him run a more aggressive scheme and picked the players.

Then why did so many players come to Denver to play under him?

The only people who we know he had issues with are Cutler and Scheffler. Scheffler's statements are indefensible, and even by your own admission Cutler was a crybaby who received to meet with McDaniels and resolve the issue.

Maybe the issue is with those people, not McDaniels.



My brain hurts now ...

HAT
01-18-2010, 10:07 PM
Oh I guess you don't think scoring more point during the 09 season would have improved the record. OK my bad.

You're right....It is 'your bad' and a very dumb argument.

If the '09 Broncos scored exactly 27 points in each and every game....That average would've been good for 5th in the NFL behind only the Saints, Vikings, Packers and Chargers.

The only loss where 27 points was guaranteed to change into a win was the Raider game.

Yes...More points for Denver could possibly translate into less for their opponents but it's pure speculation.

watermock
01-18-2010, 10:12 PM
Funny.

The trash is falling so fast it's amusing.

HAT
01-18-2010, 10:17 PM
Nope. The defenses the Broncos faced this season averaged giving up 3 pts less per game than the 2008 opponents did. So, if the 2009 offense faced the same defenses that the 2008 offense did, it's safe to say that they would've scored essentially the same amount of points.

If this is true...That is an excellent observation. People throw so many opinions around that are not based in reality. But when you bring up cold hard stats to discredit any given notion......."The game is about more than stats"

Suuuuure it is....until the next time *you* need a stat to prove a point.

Archer81
01-18-2010, 10:27 PM
I was looking at Royal's stats. He caught the ball 37 times. He was targeted 79 times. He caught the ball 46.8% of the time it was thrown at him. In 2008 he caught the ball 91 times. He was targeted 129 times, or he caught the ball 70.5% of the time. He was in a sophmore slump in 2009. He did have the ball thrown at him less, but he did not make the plays when he was given the opportunities to.

Just an FYI.

:Broncos:

HAT
01-18-2010, 10:31 PM
I was looking at Royal's stats. He caught the ball 37 times. He was targeted 79 times. He caught the ball 46.8% of the time it was thrown at him. In 2008 he caught the ball 91 times. He was targeted 129 times, or he caught the ball 70.5% of the time. He was in a sophmore slump in 2009. He did have the ball thrown at him less, but he did not make the plays when he was given the opportunities to.

Just an FYI.

:Broncos:

The game is about more than just stats!!!

:wiggle:

strafen
01-18-2010, 10:31 PM
McEgo, driving the Broncos organization into the ground, one player, one coach at a time.
Another one bite the dust!

Archer81
01-18-2010, 10:33 PM
McEgo, driving the Broncos organization into the ground, one player, one coach at a time.
Another one bite the dust!


Wow...one player and one coach...THE END IS NEAR!


Seriously man?


:Broncos:

watermock
01-18-2010, 10:41 PM
Yeah, it was the entire 08 class' fault you dimwit.

The 09 class is a disater.

Look at YPG.

Plus we had a dramatic increase in D.

Just STFU.

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 10:42 PM
Wow...one player and one coach...THE END IS NEAR!

Seriously man?

:Broncos:

C'mon Chris, the best young offense in the league - in years - peeled off one at a time: Cutler, Hillis, Marshall, Scheffler, Royal marginalized. These are not exaggerations, these are the realities. It will take years to rebuild that group, can't do it in a year or two.

Best young offense in the league, gutted. And one guy's fingerprints are all over it.

watermock
01-18-2010, 10:43 PM
The game is about more than just stats!!!

:wiggle:


dumbass.......

watermock
01-18-2010, 10:46 PM
C'mon Chris, the best young offense in the league - in years - peeled off one at a time: Cutler, Hillis, Marshall, Scheffler, Royal marginalized. These are not exaggerations, these are the realities. It will take years to rebuild that group, can't do it in a year or two.

Best young offense in the league, gutted. And one guy's fingerprints are all over it.

Wrong!

We did better with our new D....

Right?

Beavis needs to be fired NOW.

Archer81
01-18-2010, 11:03 PM
C'mon Chris, the best young offense in the league - in years - peeled off one at a time: Cutler, Hillis, Marshall, Scheffler, Royal marginalized. These are not exaggerations, these are the realities. It will take years to rebuild that group, can't do it in a year or two.

Best young offense in the league, gutted. And one guy's fingerprints are all over it.


You know if they were the best young offense in the league, they would have done one of two things. 1. Scored more. Or 2. Made the playoffs at least once. They did neither. The only player on that list who is not here is Cutler. Sheffler was targeted in 2009 just as much as he was in 2008, and Royal was in a sophmore slump. Hillis couldnt beat out a coverted linebacker or old man river Jordan to start. That had nothing to do with the coach or his perceived hatred of anything Shanahan.

:Broncos:

HAT
01-18-2010, 11:05 PM
C'mon Chris, the best young offense in the league - in years - peeled off one at a time: Cutler, Hillis, Marshall, Scheffler, Royal marginalized. These are not exaggerations, these are the realities. It will take years to rebuild that group, can't do it in a year or two.

Best young offense in the league, gutted. And one guy's fingerprints are all over it.

How is "The best young offense in years" anything BUT an exaggeration?

Cutler and Orton have proved to be interchangeable in each others systems.

Hillis's 2008 YPC was exactly the same as Selvin Youngs

Marshall had a more productive year in 2009 than he did in 2008

Scheffler caught 9 less balls this year and one less TD

Royal was electric as a rookie and went through a SS (very common at WR).

And as for "gutted". Last I checked...only Cutler is no longer in Denver (Thank God)

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 11:16 PM
How is "The best young offense in years" anything BUT an exaggeration?

It was the best young offense in years ... in my opinion. Your point by point slamming of each guy is pretty weak ... I'll be glad to read about whichever other you think was better. And don't forget Clady, Harris and Kuper.

Archer81
01-18-2010, 11:17 PM
It was the best young offense in years ... in my opinion.

I'll be glad to read another you think was better?

And remember Clady, Harris and Kuper.


Chargers, Saints, Giants, Texans.


:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 11:20 PM
Chargers, Saints, Giants, Texans.

Chargers come close I suppose ... but no way to the rest. I said YOUNG, by that I mean, say, 4th or 5th years in the league.

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 11:22 PM
Chargers, Saints, Giants, Texans.


:Broncos:

Amazing how you tear the Broncos down ... and you call yourself a fan?!

Archer81
01-18-2010, 11:25 PM
Amazing how you tear the Broncos down ... and you call yourself a fan?!


As some of those on your side of this issue say, being impartial or realistic is being a true fan. You asked for bright young offenses. I gave you four. At no point did I say anything about the Broncos offense in comparison in the post you quoted.


:Broncos:

strafen
01-18-2010, 11:30 PM
Wow...one player and one coach...THE END IS NEAR!


Seriously man?


:Broncos:Take it anyway you want to take it...
What McDaniels has done is drive this football team into the ground.
There's a reason why he has had rifts with players. He has alienated the talent this team had on offense.
Now, the 3 most important coaches of the Broncos have left: Turner, Denison, and now Nolan.
This lunatic we have as a coach thinks he can make this team better by parting with talent.
Marshall, Scheffler, Hillis and who knows who else may be leaving the team.
In fact, Dumervil leaving would not be too far-fetched.

Who is he going to replaced those players and coaches?
More scrub players?
More New England buddies to be his coaches so he can have more ears and eyes everywhere report to him what's being said about his paranoid ass?

This team is a mutiny right now. This team has no trust in McDaniels. Nobody is safe.
Mike Leach, Cutler, Kern, Jack Williams, and quite possibly Scheffler, Hillis, Marshall is just a disturbing pattern indicating McEgo has some issues.
Napoleon reincarnated!

Great move by McEgo, the most improved phase of this team by leaps and bounds was the defense. And now he gets rids of the coach responsible for it.

The offense which is allegedly McDaniels forte, is the phase of this team that sucked and regressed badly this past season.

About firing the guy resposble for the collapse of the offense and the turmoil and chaos that is now the Denver Broncos?
The good news is McEgo has just put the rope around his neck.
He has accelerated his departure. Forget about 2-3 years, he better start produccing next year, or the rope around his neck will be too tight for him to breathe.
If the Broncos don't make the play-offs and at least make it to the AFC Conference Championship, McEgo will be gone next year...

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 11:34 PM
As some of those on your side of this issue say, being impartial or realistic is being a true fan.
It was sarcasm ... hmmm...


You asked for bright young offenses. I gave you four. At no point did I say anything about the Broncos offense in comparison in the post you quoted.

:Broncos:
I said the Chargers are close ... but Gates, LT and even Rivers fall outside the category of young. Saints much older, Texans no way, no TE and Chris Brown as RB. And Schaub is 30 I think. Giants look better than I thought though, nice young group on offense.


Part of why that youthful offensive group was so striking is that all were still on rookie contracts, every single one, save Hamilton, Weigmann and Graham (and we should've kept Chris Myers).

That is the major focus of the competitive dynamic in the league now ... maximize players while affordable, before they're free agents. You know that. Strike while the salary load is light enough to leave a full roster.


Main point is: We HAD these guys, and now they;re gone. Building that talent level back up again will take time ... especially seeing we need to focus on defense.

Archer81
01-18-2010, 11:36 PM
Chargers come close I suppose ... but no way to the rest. I said YOUNG, by that I mean, say, 4th or 5th years in the league.


Giants: Manning- 6th year.
Manningham-1st year
Smith-3rd year
Hixon-4th year
Nicks-1st year
Bradshaw-3rd year
Jacobs-5th year
Boss- 3rd year

Saints
Brees-9th year
colston- 4th year
Henderson-6th year
Meachem-3rd year
Moore-4th year
Bush-4th year
Bell-4th year
Shockey-8th year

Chargers
Rivers-6th year
Floyd-4th year
Jackson 5th year
Naane-3rd year
Osgood-7th year
LT-9TH year
Sproles-5th year
Gates-7th year

Texans
Schaub-6th yr
Johnson-7th yr
Anderson-4th yr
Walter-7th yr
Jones-3rd yr
Slatton-2nd yr
Moats-5th yr
Daniels-4th yr

Could throw in Philly, too.

:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
01-18-2010, 11:47 PM
Read my post above there ... rookie contracts are a key.

Yes, the Giants have a similarly talented youthful offense, fair enough. Saints and Texans though, not even close. But theere's too much minutia here ... the point is, we had a loaded young cheap offense, such that we could focus resources on the defense.

But now, no way ... we need a #1 WR, a pass catching TE and a QBOTF.

HAT
01-19-2010, 12:18 AM
It was the best young offense in years ... in my opinion. Your point by point slamming of each guy is pretty weak ... I'll be glad to read about whichever other you think was better. And don't forget Clady, Harris and Kuper.

The only one I slammed was the one who is no longer here.

Where to start?

If by better you mean would I rather them on Denver? Ok, I'll entertain your fantasy land for a bit.

Madden style I would trade a package of Cutler, Hillis, Schef, Marshall & Royal for:

Packers: Rodgers, Grant, Finley, Jennings
Falcons: Ryan, Snelling, Norwood, White
Titans: Young, CJ, Lendale, Britt
Vikings: Tavaris, AP, Rice, Harvin
Saints: Bush, Thomas, Colston, Meachem, Moore
Eagles: Kolb, McCoy, Celek, Jackson
Jets: Sanchez, Greene, Keller, Braylon
9ers: Smith, Gore, Davis, Crabtree, Morgan

Every single one of those players is 5th year or less. There's about 3 or 4 more teams that I left off because ONE of the players was 6th year.

BroncoBuff
01-19-2010, 12:31 AM
Okay, points taken ... I would disagree with several there (esp Vikes, Eagles, Jets, 9ers, none are equal imo), so I'll grant you "best" was an ill-advised term, especially in that it had no real bearing on my point. Which is: WE ALREADY HAD AN EXCELLENT CHEAP YOUNG OFFENSE, and now it's gone.

So now we have to concentrate resources on the defense AND the offense, instead of primarily defense. You must see that ... just replacing Marshall's output in this offense will require a serious investment - an investment that would not have been necessary if Shanahan were still here.

HAT
01-19-2010, 12:34 AM
Okay, points taken ... I would disagree with several there (esp Vikes, Eagles, Jets, 9ers, none are equal imo), so I'll grant you "best" was an ill-advised term, especially in that it had no real bearing on my point. Which is: WE ALREADY HAD AN EXCELLENT CHEAP YOUNG OFFENSE, and now it's gone.

So now we have to concentrate resources on the defense AND the offense, instead of primarily defense. You must see that ... just replacing Marshall's output in this offense will require a serious investment - an investment that would not have been necessary if Shanahan were still here.

Point taken as well. But, a big part of the reason I support McD is because he is NOT Shanahan.

I'm beyond grateful for his time here and for bringing Lombardi twice. But I am a huge proponent that NO coach/team should be paired that long. Denver needed a change in culture just as much as Shanahan needed a change of scenery IMO.

McD has made mistakes, no doubt. But there is no reason this team can't be 2-3 games beter next year and playing in January.

:thumbs:

watermock
01-19-2010, 12:35 AM
I was looking at Royal's stats. He caught the ball 37 times. He was targeted 79 times. He caught the ball 46.8% of the time it was thrown at him. In 2008 he caught the ball 91 times. He was targeted 129 times, or he caught the ball 70.5% of the time. He was in a sophmore slump in 2009. He did have the ball thrown at him less, but he did not make the plays when he was given the opportunities to.

Just an FYI.

:Broncos:

Like Vincent Jackson?

WTF?

Beavis only used Marshall when it amused his hitler style.

Such bull****.

watermock
01-19-2010, 12:37 AM
Wow

rastaman
01-19-2010, 03:36 AM
Really? This isn't the courtroom here, Buff. Hell, let's take it line by line.

Bates - He and Shanny both admitted to copying alot of the 07 Pats offense.

Goodmans - Again, from Bowlen's own mouth.

Cutler - Adam Schefter is the bastion of Broncos reporting, and he said that we made no attempts to trade Jay Cutler. You even created a thread on this to calm everyone down when this originally happened.

Scheffler - Again, no credible sources I've found to suggest we tried moving him.

Royal - Basic football X's and O's.

Hillis - If you watched the 2009 season, you watched Hillis suck.

Marshall - Again, it was cut on film

Nolan - Nolan himself said that Josh had him run a more aggressive scheme and picked the players.

Then why did so many players come to Denver to play under him?

The only people who we know he had issues with are Cutler and Scheffler. Scheffler's statements are indefensible, and even by your own admission Cutler was a crybaby who received to meet with McDaniels and resolve the issue.

Maybe the issue is with those people, not McDaniels.

And perhaps its just the opposite. In the end you can't point fingers at others and run from the obvious forever.

It just seems odd that so many players and coaches are leaving McD. By McD's 3rd year (2011) there won't be any excuses.

Right now it appears tha McD is building a team of "YES" men for both players and coaches. We will see if he can actually win with this format. So for all you supporters go ahead and support McD.....however, don't expect everyone to buy into McD's Bull-Shiiit.

rastaman
01-19-2010, 03:43 AM
I was looking at Royal's stats. He caught the ball 37 times. He was targeted 79 times. He caught the ball 46.8% of the time it was thrown at him. In 2008 he caught the ball 91 times. He was targeted 129 times, or he caught the ball 70.5% of the time. He was in a sophmore slump in 2009. He did have the ball thrown at him less, but he did not make the plays when he was given the opportunities to.

Just an FYI.

:Broncos:

Is there anyway to measure how many times Orton under or overthrew Royal, or threw behind him or failed to throw him the ball when he was open? Are stats keep in those categories? Because if these stats are kept or shown to be true, then the blame must also be shared by Orton as to why Royal's stats have suffered. Its not like Royal was throwing the ball to himself.

Beantown Bronco
01-19-2010, 04:09 AM
Is there anyway to measure how many times Orton under or overthrew Royal, or threw behind him or failed to throw him the ball when he was open? Are stats keep in those categories? Because if these stats are kept or shown to be true, then the blame must also be shared by Orton as to why Royal's stats have suffered. Its not like Royal was throwing the ball to himself.

Everyone else's percentage went up under Orton, but because Royal's went down, it's because Orton was inaccurate all the time? Please. Nobody else had a problem bringing in his throws.

watermock
01-19-2010, 04:14 AM
Ha!

Everyone knows Royal has bad hands.

STFU.

jhns
01-19-2010, 06:09 AM
I was looking at Royal's stats. He caught the ball 37 times. He was targeted 79 times. He caught the ball 46.8% of the time it was thrown at him. In 2008 he caught the ball 91 times. He was targeted 129 times, or he caught the ball 70.5% of the time. He was in a sophmore slump in 2009. He did have the ball thrown at him less, but he did not make the plays when he was given the opportunities to.

Just an FYI.

:Broncos:

Riiight. McD's QB has nothing to do with that, right? You do realize that being targeted doesn't mean the ball is catchable, right?

I'm sure it is that a rookie who ran great routes, could catch, and had Shanhans playbook down by his first camp just suddenly forgot how to play. Give me a break. McDaniels gave us a crap QB and has no clue how to use his talent. He is the one that didn't put guys like Royal in position to succeed. Maybe if he didn't fall in love with complete crap at QB, we could get another player that makes those around him better. Instead we are stuck with a QB that makes everyone elses job harder and you guys expect every other position to be perfect so it works with a crap QB. You guys deserve McD. I just don't get what fans like me have done to deserve this.

strafen
01-19-2010, 06:15 AM
I was looking at Royal's stats. He caught the ball 37 times. He was targeted 79 times. He caught the ball 46.8% of the time it was thrown at him. In 2008 he caught the ball 91 times. He was targeted 129 times, or he caught the ball 70.5% of the time. He was in a sophmore slump in 2009. He did have the ball thrown at him less, but he did not make the plays when he was given the opportunities to.

Just an FYI.

:Broncos:Is that really what happened this year?
Is that why I didn't SEE the ball thrown to Royal on all the games I SAW this year?
Wow, I thought I was watching some real football games. I guess no, huh?

Sophomore slump my ass. Get real man!
Get your head out of McD ass!!!

Beantown Bronco
01-19-2010, 06:19 AM
Is that why I didn't SEE the ball thrown to Royal on all the games I SAW this year?
Wow, I thought I was watching some real football games. I guess no, huh?


Considering he caught at least one pass in 12 games this year and at least two passes in 10 games this year, I'd say that in fact, yes, you did miss some football games this year.

Archer81
01-19-2010, 06:39 AM
Is that really what happened this year?
Is that why I didn't SEE the ball thrown to Royal on all the games I SAW this year?
Wow, I thought I was watching some real football games. I guess no, huh?

Sophomore slump my ass. Get real man!
Get your head out of McD ass!!!


Those are the numbers ass hat. Its not my fault you see what you want to see.


:Broncos:

Garcia Bronco
01-19-2010, 06:46 AM
Anyone seen a pattern yet. I've been a critic of McDaniels, but have stated over and over that he needs to have a full two years to prove himself. But Mike Nolan leaving was the last straw.

Let's look at who McDaniels has torched, and the organization has later villified:
Jeremy Bates - left because McDaniels wanted to run the offense.
Goodmans - fired because McDaniels wanted to trade cutler and run the draft.
Cutler - traded because McDaniels thought he could find a franchise QB Scheffler - attempted traded, badmouthed in the press, still our most productive TE.
Royal - couldn't find a use for him, because NE england doesn't have a short fast wide receiver.
Hillis - Pulled for Lamont Jordan.
Marshall - Badmouthed in the press. Attempting to trade.
Nolan - left because McDaniels wanted to run the defense.

Things have gone full circle have they not? He clearly has learned nothing from the ****ing disaster that was his attempt at playing at both HC and OC. Last years draft was a disaster because he was both HC and GM. Now he wants to be HC, GM and DC?

Maybe I want him to stick around for another season, just so we can interview and grab Jeremy Bates as HC (which Mike was grooming him for).

What a disaster. This year was the first year that I put all of my sports entertainment dollars to the Rockies for games, and watched Broncos on the tube. Next year will be the second.

I think you've reached on about 5 of those to try and make it fit your agenda. LMAO at including Cutler, Goodman, Hillis, and Jermey Bates.

Archer81
01-19-2010, 06:46 AM
Riiight. McD's QB has nothing to do with that, right? You do realize that being targeted doesn't mean the ball is catchable, right?

I'm sure it is that a rookie who ran great routes, could catch, and had Shanhans playbook down by his first camp just suddenly forgot how to play. Give me a break. McDaniels gave us a crap QB and has no clue how to use his talent. He is the one that didn't put guys like Royal in position to succeed. Maybe if he didn't fall in love with complete crap at QB, we could get another player that makes those around him better. Instead we are stuck with a QB that makes everyone elses job harder and you guys expect every other position to be perfect so it works with a crap QB. You guys deserve McD. I just don't get what fans like me have done to deserve this.


2008
Marshall: Targeted 183 times. Rec: 104
Royal: Targeted 129 times. Rec: 91
Scheffler: Targeted 60 times. Rec: 40

2009
Marshall: Targeted 154 times, Rec: 101
Royal: Targeted 79 times: Rec: 37
Scheffler: Targeted 50 times: Rec: 31

Yup. All the QB...Scheffler and Marshall's numbers stayed similar to the year before, despite getting fewer opportunities. Royal slumped, which happens from time to time with 2nd year players. Maybe there is more to the offensive problems then just Kyle Orton? These numbers are courtesy of ESPN.

:Broncos:

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 06:48 AM
Could you please tell me in detail how you rated Bates as subpar play caller, did you have the benefit of the endzone tape the coaches have? Please tell us in facts like you ask for.

I was kind of wondering the same thing about the OP.

jhns
01-19-2010, 06:50 AM
2008
Marshall: Targeted 183 times. Rec: 104
Royal: Targeted 129 times. Rec: 91
Scheffler: Targeted 60 times. Rec: 40

2009
Marshall: Targeted 154 times, Rec: 101
Royal: Targeted 79 times: Rec: 37
Scheffler: Targeted 50 times: Rec: 31

Yup. All the QB...Scheffler and Marshall's numbers stayed similar to the year before, despite getting fewer opportunities. Royal slumped, which happens from time to time with 2nd year players. Maybe there is more to the offensive problems then just Kyle Orton? These numbers are courtesy of ESPN.

:Broncos:

Yeah, throwing 50 screens to Marshall helps him keep his catches up. You are right it isn't all Orton. It is Orton being bad and McD not putting players in position to succeed. I would bet him trying to run everything and call plays has something to do with his incompetence. Oh well, Bowlen will wake up eventually. I can only pray it is soon.

Garcia Bronco
01-19-2010, 06:51 AM
2008
Marshall: Targeted 183 times. Rec: 104
Royal: Targeted 129 times. Rec: 91
Scheffler: Targeted 60 times. Rec: 40

2009
Marshall: Targeted 154 times, Rec: 101
Royal: Targeted 79 times: Rec: 37
Scheffler: Targeted 50 times: Rec: 31

Yup. All the QB...Scheffler and Marshall's numbers stayed similar to the year before, despite getting fewer opportunities. Royal slumped, which happens from time to time with 2nd year players. Maybe there is more to the offensive problems then just Kyle Orton? These numbers are courtesy of ESPN.

:Broncos:

Royal did not get open..plain and simple. He has gotten sloppy with his route running and I expect him to be better next year. People think that what makes Wes Welker...well Wes Welker is that he's short. Not even ****ing close. He's the best at what he does because he wants to be the best. Royal does too...and expect him to get right back up there.

Archer81
01-19-2010, 06:51 AM
Yeah, throwing 50 screens to Marshall helps him keep his catches up. You are right it isn't all Orton. It is Orton being bad and McD not putting players in position to succeed. I would bet him trying to run everything and call plays has something to do with his incompetence. Oh well, Bowlen will wake up eventually. I can only pray it is soon.


LOL. This post fails.


:Broncos:

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 06:56 AM
Read my post above there ... rookie contracts are a key.

Yes, the Giants have a similarly talented youthful offense, fair enough. Saints and Texans though, not even close. But theere's too much minutia here ... the point is, we had a loaded young cheap offense, such that we could focus resources on the defense.

But now, no way ... we need a #1 WR, a pass catching TE and a QBOTF.

The Patriots haven't really had a "pass catching TE" for years. It's not part of the system. Look at Watson's numbers... he never puts up big catch numbers as their number 1. The number 1 WR is still up in the air but the odds are you are correct. This may have been the case if Shanahan was still here.

The QBOTF is a valid point but it's ignorant to put that all on McDaniels. Jay had hurt feelings. I get that. But that is one of many reasons why professional sports athletes make so much money. From one year to the next, they never really know for sure where they might end up. The coaches change and philosophies change and therefore the players change. Hell, even when the coaches stay the same the player turnover is HUGE. Jay should have never been so melo-dramatic about his name coming up in trade talks. He should have been pissed and then been a professional about it. Nothing he did was professional and if you don't call the owner back you are all but guaranteed a ticket out of town.

jhns
01-19-2010, 06:57 AM
Royal did not get open..plain and simple. He has gotten sloppy with his route running and I expect him to be better next year. People think that what makes Wes Welker...well Wes Welker is that he's short. Not even ****ing close. He's the best at what he does because he wants to be the best. Royal does too...and expect him to get right back up there.

LOL

Is this post serious? Way to comment when you don't watch games.

Garcia Bronco
01-19-2010, 08:31 AM
LOL

Is this post serious? Way to comment when you don't watch games.

Now that you've gotten that all out of your system. I watch the games every week and I also go to them. didn't hit all ten home games this year, but either way I am there watching.

Bronco Boy
01-19-2010, 09:23 AM
I don't know, 8-8 is pretty good for a first year head coach who only had like half of his system in place. Hell, Shanny couldn't do better than that with his ENTIRE system in place.

strafen
01-19-2010, 09:27 AM
I don't know, 8-8 is pretty good for a first year head coach who only had like half of his system in place. Hell, Shanny couldn't do better than that with his ENTIRE system in place.Is the way he's got the 8-8 bud.
Had he started the season, say 0-3 with some ups and downs along the way and finish 8-8 would've been more commendable than starting 6-0 and blow it by going 2-8 in the last 10 games.
Huge difference there, don't you think? :wiggle:

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 09:27 AM
I don't know, 8-8 is pretty good for a first year head coach who only had like half of his system in place. Hell, Shanny couldn't do better than that with his ENTIRE system in place.

Agreed. And as our good friend Beantown Bronco has pointed out countless times, the Broncos faced a much stiffer challenge in 2009.

Another example: In 2008 the Broncos played 5 games against playoff opponents while in 2009 they played 9 against playoff opponents.

DenverBrit
01-19-2010, 09:31 AM
It was the best young offense in years ... in my opinion. Your point by point slamming of each guy is pretty weak ... I'll be glad to read about whichever other you think was better. And don't forget Clady, Harris and Kuper.

18th in scoring, one of the worst interception machines in the league (a tradition continued in Chicago) yet it was one of the best??

I see you're still pining away for JC. ;D

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 09:33 AM
18th in scoring, one of the worst interception machines in the league (a tradition continued in Chicago) yet it was one of the best??

I see you're still pining away for JC. ;D

I'll take a page from others here and say that the first 3 games the offense was pretty damn good. The last 13 games the offense scored the same PPG as this years version and had many more turnovers.

Garcia Bronco
01-19-2010, 09:52 AM
I don't know, 8-8 is pretty good for a first year head coach who only had like half of his system in place. Hell, Shanny couldn't do better than that with his ENTIRE system in place.

Not only that but this year we played every AFC playoff team but the Jets. We had 8 games this season against playoff teams and won half our games.

NE
Balt
SD x2
Indy
Cincy

NFC

Cowboys
Eagles

HAT
01-19-2010, 10:10 AM
Is the way he's got the 8-8 bud.
Had he started the season, say 0-3 with some ups and downs along the way and finish 8-8 would've been more commendable than starting 6-0 and blow it by going 2-8 in the last 10 games.
Huge difference there, don't you think? :wiggle:

While I'm disappointed in 8-8 and missing the playoffs, "How" they got to 8-8 doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me.

Are you telling the Titans season was somehow more successful than Denvers simply because they started 0-6 and went 8-2 after that?

Bullshiat!

You know as well as I do that if Denver would've started 0-8 and proceeded to reel off 8 straight wins that not one person would think any different of McD than they do now.

The supporters would still be disappointed but find some comfort in the turnaround....

The haters would still be screaming "We should've been in the playoffs if Mcdickless wouldn't have taken so long to get things going."

8-8 is 8-8. Doesn't matter how they got there.

DenverBrit
01-19-2010, 10:21 AM
While I'm disappointed in 8-8 and missing the playoffs, "How" they got to 8-8 doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me.

Are you telling the Titans season was somehow more successful than Denvers simply because they started 0-6 and went 8-2 after that?

Bullshiat!

You know as well as I do that if Denver would've started 0-8 and proceeded to reel off 8 straight wins that not one person would think any different of McD than they do now.

The supporters would still be disappointed but find some comfort in the turnaround....

The haters would still be screaming "We should've been in the playoffs if Mcdickless wouldn't have taken so long to get things going."

8-8 is 8-8. Doesn't matter how they got there.

The hysteria around here would rival the response of Rush Limbaugh supporters during a gay marriage at an Alabama Republican fundraiser.

BroncoBuff
01-19-2010, 10:30 AM
18th in scoring, one of the worst interception machines in the league (a tradition continued in Chicago) yet it was one of the best??

I see you're still pining away for JC. ;D

Well, I like Jay still, that's true. And despite his awful season, I FULLY expect he will develop into a borderline-elite quarterback.

And in light of recent events, I think his departure from Denver should now be seen in a very different light.

And I think you're failing to grasp the season he had last year. Yes, pretty bad in the red zone, but 62% completion, 4,500 yards, 18-11 (11 is not a "machine") ... those are damed good with seven RBs on IR. Plus great numbers in '07 despite the 'beetus, what a courageous soldier he was that year, you can't credibly deny that. I'd take him back over Kyle in less that a heartbeat, and I like Kyle actually. I suspect 90% of people here agree, though most would never admit it.


Okay Jay-haters, BroncoBuff haters ... FIRE AWAY! :redpunch:

watermock
01-19-2010, 10:35 AM
Cutler is gone, along with our draft pick

Gob
01-19-2010, 10:39 AM
While I'm disappointed in 8-8 and missing the playoffs, "How" they got to 8-8 doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me.

Are you telling the Titans season was somehow more successful than Denvers simply because they started 0-6 and went 8-2 after that?

Bullshiat!

You know as well as I do that if Denver would've started 0-8 and proceeded to reel off 8 straight wins that not one person would think any different of McD than they do now.

The supporters would still be disappointed but find some comfort in the turnaround....

The haters would still be screaming "We should've been in the playoffs if Mcdickless wouldn't have taken so long to get things going."

8-8 is 8-8. Doesn't matter how they got there.

Do you feel that way about how the defensive performance went down also, or does timing matter in that case? (i.e. it doesn't matter how good we looked in the beginning, we sucked when it counted ....vs.... we went from the 30th ranked scoring D to the 12th, period)

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 10:44 AM
Well, I like Jay still, that's true. And despite his awful season, I FULLY expect he will develop into a borderline-elite quarterback.

And in light of recent events, I think his departure from Denver should now be seen in a very different light.

And I think you're failing to grasp the season he had last year. Yes, pretty bad in the red zone, but 62% completion, 4,500 yards, 18-11 (11 is not a "machine") ... those are damed good with seven RBs on IR. Plus great numbers in '07 despite the 'beetus, what a courageous soldier he was that year, you can't credibly deny that. I'd take him back over Kyle in less that a heartbeat, and I like Kyle actually. I suspect 90% of people here agree, though most would never admit it.


Okay Jay-haters, BroncoBuff haters ... FIRE AWAY! :redpunch:

What the hell does a cordial parting of ways with Nolan and McDaniels have to do with Cutler? You have been looking for reasons to put the Cutler debacle on McDaniels and you fail miserably every time.

If you don't call the owner back, you get a ticket out of town. Period. Bowlen was a part of the meetings with Cutler and his agent and Bowlen is the one who finally gave Jay the hook and said Jay must be traded. If you don't believe that Jay failed to call Bowlen back then blame Bowlen because he's the one who put it out to the media.

I don't get you at all. You have a WORLD of patience for Jay Cutler but have a short fuse for McDaniels and anything that he does.

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 10:46 AM
Do you feel that way about how the defensive performance went down also, or does timing matter in that case? (i.e. it doesn't matter how good we looked in the beginning, we sucked when it counted ....vs.... we went from the 30th ranked scoring D to the 12th, period)

Last time I checked, all 16 games count.

Gob
01-19-2010, 11:16 AM
Last time I checked, all 16 games count.

Good. Judging the HC, DC, or OC for that matter by the whole season rather then cherry picked sections seems consistent (but not too common right now) to me.

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 11:25 AM
Good. Judging the HC, DC, or OC for that matter by the whole season rather then cherry picked sections seems consistent (but not too common right now) to me.

Nothing around here is ever consistent.

HAT
01-19-2010, 11:30 AM
Do you feel that way about how the defensive performance went down also, or does timing matter in that case? (i.e. it doesn't matter how good we looked in the beginning, we sucked when it counted ....vs.... we went from the 30th ranked scoring D to the 12th, period)

Not quite sure what you are asking. Going from 30th to 12th in defensive scoring is great and I've said multiple times that both Nolan & McD deserve props for accomplishing that in such a short time.

But like I said earlier in this thread where someone claimed that Denver's record would have much better had the offense not fallen off.......


If the '09 Broncos scored exactly 27 points in each and every game....That average would've been good for 5th in the NFL behind only the Saints, Vikings, Packers and Chargers.

The only loss where 27 points was guaranteed to change the result to a win was the Raider game.

Yes...More points for Denver could possibly translate into less for their opponents but it's pure speculation.

The bottom line is that this team still has shortcomings all the way around...offense, D, coaching, personnel. Various weakness shined through at different times. Sometimes they overcame those weaknesses, sometimes they didn't.

Add it all up and you get 8-8. Sucks, but it's not the end of the world all things considered.

I'm of the belief that things *will* get better.

McD has a year of experience now of watching and interacting with his talent as opposed to the 4 months to watch tape that he had to rely on for last years FA/Draft.

He's got 8 months to reflect on his own personal mistakes.

The schedule looks easier on paper next year.

Moreno, Ayers & Smith might never be superstars but I haven't seen one thing that leads me to believe that they won't step up their production in year two and be solid contributors.

Offensively:
Orton has a year in the system and hopefully won't have a busted finger or a gimpy ankle...Royal was both under utilized & sophomore slumping, I expect both to change...Moreno will look better with any interior O-line upgrade.
The million dollar question is what's going to happen with B-marsh?

Defensively:
Year two of running a 3-4...Secondary is fine for the time being, LB's look serviceable, no reason to think D-line help is not coming in the draft/FA. Losing Nolan is a bummer but I think people are over-reacting....It's not like they are going to go back to giving up 28 PPG simply b/c he is gone.

10-11 wins shouldn't be a problem next year.

jhns
01-19-2010, 11:33 AM
Good. Judging the HC, DC, or OC for that matter by the whole season rather then cherry picked sections seems consistent (but not too common right now) to me.

Yup, 8-8 got our HOF coach fired. So let's judge them for that. McDaniels needs fired.

I do enjoy reading everyone trying to spin every situation into Josh doing a good job though. When you have to continually play with numbers and make excuses, it really shows you are on the right side of things.

The spin of this whole Nolan thing is the best. The one part of this team that actually improved over last season was the defense. To bad even McDs own coaching selections don't even want to coach with him. Now we get to see what happens with a crap D all season and a regressing offense.

HAT
01-19-2010, 11:41 AM
Yup, 8-8 got our HOF coach fired. So let's judge them for that. McDaniels needs fired.

I've come around some on you jhns. I used to lump you in with the rastas, dragsters & bf7s of this board but now I see that you are capable of rational though more often than not.

HOWEVER:
8-8 did not get Shanny fired.

24-24 and 3 straight non PO appearances did.
A single PO victory in the 2000's did.
A set in his ways attitude did.
Slowik did.
Etc.

Surely you see that?

Gob
01-19-2010, 11:57 AM
Not quite sure what you are asking. Going from 30th to 12th in defensive scoring is great and I've said multiple times that both Nolan & McD deserve props for accomplishing that in such a short time.

But like I said earlier in this thread where someone claimed that Denver's record would have much better had the offense not fallen off.......



The bottom line is that this team still has shortcomings all the way around...offense, D, coaching, personnel. Various weakness shined through at different times. Sometimes they overcame those weaknesses, sometimes they didn't.

Add it all up and you get 8-8. Sucks, but it's not the end of the world all things considered.

I'm of the belief that things *will* get better.

McD has a year of experience now of watching and interacting with his talent as opposed to the 4 months to watch tape that he had to rely on for last years FA/Draft.

He's got 8 months to reflect on his own personal mistakes.

The schedule looks easier on paper next year.

Moreno, Ayers & Smith might never be superstars but I haven't seen one thing that leads me to believe that they won't step up their production in year two and be solid contributors.

Offensively:
Orton has a year in the system and hopefully won't have a busted finger or a gimpy ankle...Royal was both under utilized & sophomore slumping, I expect both to change...Moreno will look better with any interior O-line upgrade.
The million dollar question is what's going to happen with B-marsh?

Defensively:
Year two of running a 3-4...Secondary is fine for the time being, LB's look serviceable, no reason to think D-line help is not coming in the draft/FA. Losing Nolan is a bummer but I think people are over-reacting....It's not like they are going to go back to giving up 28 PPG simply b/c he is gone.

10-11 wins shouldn't be a problem next year.

Well then I probably should have read more of your posts before targeting that question specifically to you. I am just getting annoyed at the sudden general minimizing of Nolan's work because of half a season whereas the same people (seems like at least) argue McDaniels second half of the season is off-limits, the 2-8 crowd vs the 8-8 crowd.

jhns
01-19-2010, 12:07 PM
I've come around some on you jhns. I used to lump you in with the rastas, dragsters & bf7s of this board but now I see that you are capable of rational though more often than not.

HOWEVER:
8-8 did not get Shanny fired.

24-24 and 3 straight non PO appearances did.
A single PO victory in the 2000's did.
A set in his ways attitude did.
Slowik did.
Etc.

Surely you see that?

I can agree with that. I was just being a smartass. I have never been one to use that 2-8 argument(or that he needs fired for this past season) anyways.

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 12:33 PM
I can agree with that. I was just being a smartass. I have never been one to use that 2-8 argument(or that he needs fired for this past season) anyways.

Nope, you wanted him fired long before that. You wanted him fired regardless of whether or not Jay Cutler wanted to return calls to the owner.

azbroncfan
01-19-2010, 12:39 PM
Anyone seen a pattern yet. I've been a critic of McDaniels, but have stated over and over that he needs to have a full two years to prove himself. But Mike Nolan leaving was the last straw.

Let's look at who McDaniels has torched, and the organization has later villified:
Jeremy Bates - left because McDaniels wanted to run the offense.
Goodmans - fired because McDaniels wanted to trade cutler and run the draft.
Cutler - traded because McDaniels thought he could find a franchise QB Scheffler - attempted traded, badmouthed in the press, still our most productive TE.
Royal - couldn't find a use for him, because NE england doesn't have a short fast wide receiver.
Hillis - Pulled for Lamont Jordan.
Marshall - Badmouthed in the press. Attempting to trade.
Nolan - left because McDaniels wanted to run the defense.

Things have gone full circle have they not? He clearly has learned nothing from the ****ing disaster that was his attempt at playing at both HC and OC. Last years draft was a disaster because he was both HC and GM. Now he wants to be HC, GM and DC?

Maybe I want him to stick around for another season, just so we can interview and grab Jeremy Bates as HC (which Mike was grooming him for).

What a disaster. This year was the first year that I put all of my sports entertainment dollars to the Rockies for games, and watched Broncos on the tube. Next year will be the second.

Wow I can't believe we have all been so blind to not notice any of this.

jhns
01-19-2010, 01:16 PM
Nope, you wanted him fired long before that. You wanted him fired regardless of whether or not Jay Cutler wanted to return calls to the owner.

Yup... No argument there.

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 01:28 PM
Yup... No argument there.

So, a player can be above the team but the coach... NO Way??? You are quite confusing...

jhns
01-19-2010, 01:39 PM
So, a player can be above the team but the coach... NO Way??? You are quite confusing...

Sure. That is what I said, right?

I get that you think one side had to be right, but that is dumb. Both handled it like children. The thing is, Culter was still a kid. He needed to be put in his place. The front office is supposed to the adult in all of it and do that. Even if they want to get rid of him after that, there is no need to antagonize and create more drama while doing so. That situation showed this front office has no idea how to deal with players. Just look at the situation after the trade. This team was making all kinds of excuses and still putting its spin out to the media. Cutler said "no comment". At least he grew up a little when that all happened.

Cito Pelon
01-19-2010, 01:59 PM
I'm sure this thread will be the same old story - the same bunch of people that thought Shanny could do no wrong will claim McD does nothing right.

The same things Shanny did get McD vilified.

Popcorn Sutton
01-19-2010, 02:08 PM
Sure. That is what I said, right?

I get that you think one side had to be right, but that is dumb. Both handled it like children. The thing is, Culter was still a kid. He needed to be put in his place. The front office is supposed to the adult in all of it and do that. Even if they want to get rid of him after that, there is no need to antagonize and create more drama while doing so. That situation showed this front office has no idea how to deal with players. Just look at the situation after the trade. This team was making all kinds of excuses and still putting its spin out to the media. Cutler said "no comment". At least he grew up a little when that all happened.

You know, we actually agree on one thing. McDaniels and the front office need to learn to keep things in house.

As far as your "Cutler was still a kid" line there...well, I guess we'll have to disagree. It doesn't take a seasoned veteran to realize that trade talks happen in all professional sports. It should have never gone past the initial trade rumors. Jay Cutler decided to blow it out of proportion rather than handle it inside with Josh McDaniels. It would have been a perfect spot for Jay to come in to Dove Valley and tell McDaniels he is crazy for trying to trade him and that he is going to prove him wrong whether it's on the Broncos or elsewhere.

Not sure where you get the Cutler had no comment anyhow. During the Bears pre-season game Cutler himself admitted that the problem would have gone away if the Broncos would have guaranteed he wouldn't be traded. He wanted the Broncos to put him above the team and give him a guarantee. When they didn't he refused to call the owner of the team back.

You are correct when you say that both sides handled it poorly. However, you still managed to spin it to where the Broncos FO was to blame.

jhns
01-19-2010, 02:22 PM
You are correct when you say that both sides handled it poorly. However, you still managed to spin it to where the Broncos FO was to blame.

I didn't see him comment in the preseason. Maybe I am wrong about that. I won't claim to see and remember everything.

As for the paragraph I just quoted. That is what seperates my way of thinking from you and a lot of others. I think it is the organization that needs to handle it well. When they aren't, I don't see how I can blame the player for continuing to handle it poorly. It starts at the top. I guess I just expect a lot more from my front office than I expect from the players. Cutler is not the only immature 25 year old in this league that needs put in their place. If you really got to know the team, you would see a lot of guys just like him. That goes for the entire NFL.

That brings me to the other reason I blame the front office more. These are big dumb athlestes payed to run full speed into each other. I do not give a damn if a player is dumb, selfish, argumentative, or a bitch. This isn't some country club. This is football. All of the people that now care about personality should check their sexual orientation. Unless you are talking about off the field issues, I don't care to hear it. Even then, I never cared until they started suspending for it.

If he cries, put him in his place. Cutler would have had to retire if he didn't want to play for McD. This was never about what Cutler wants. Cutler and his wants can go f+++ themselves.

Cito Pelon
01-19-2010, 03:21 PM
Wow...one player and one coach...THE END IS NEAR!


Seriously man?


:Broncos:

Dragster is a member of the Chicken Little brigade, certainly. Every single move is a "disaster" waiting to happen.

DenverBrit
01-19-2010, 05:34 PM
McPoopyPants attracts more conspiracy nuts than a sold out........



http://rlv.zcache.com/nerd_convention_tshirt-p235581566542871609qw9y_400.jpg

listopencil
01-19-2010, 05:55 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=2541&dateline=1263880252


Nice avatar.



"It’s this scapegoat who is first introduced to the Israelites in Leviticus 16 as a part of the old covenant. Yahweh’s detailed instructions for the Day of Atonement further expand on the already-familiar Passover lamb concept. This atonement ritual required two flawless goats: one to be slaughtered and one to be the scapegoat. In Hebrew, “scapegoat” is azazel, which literally means “goat of removal.” After the high priest slaughtered the first goat as a sin offering and sprinkled its blood on the mercy seat (covering the Ark of the Covenant), he was to lay his hands on the head of the living goat and “confess over it all the wickedness and rebellion of the Israelites,”all their sins” and put them on the goat’s head” (Leviticus 16:21 NIV). Then the goat was sent into the desert to carry away the sins of the people. Not only was the shedding of innocent blood required for atonement; someone without flaw was needed take onto himself all guilt of the people and carry it away.

Like the sacrificial lamb or goat slaughtered as a sin offering, Jesus had to die a very real, very physical, very painful death.

In order to pay for our sin, it wasn’t going to be enough for Him to simply close His eyes and experience spiritual torment on our behalf. Fully human as “the second Adam,” Jesus suffered an excruciating human death. But that wasn’t the whole of His sacrifice. Also fully God, Jesus did what no other human could do."

colonelbeef
01-19-2010, 06:09 PM
I'll take 16th over 20th any season. We scored 370 points in 08 that would have been good for 12th in the NFL this year. The 328 points we scored this year would have been good for 24th place last year.

Worth repeating.

colonelbeef
01-19-2010, 06:11 PM
Yet both years we finished with 8 wins. What difference does the offensive ranking make?

:Broncos:

Stop being purposefully dense. The difference was that this year we had a defense worth a damn, and losing Cutler/McDaniels crap playcalling shot the team to hell.

Last years' offense with this years' defense= 12 wins and doing some damage in the playoffs. Total shame, total waste of a defense playing its' collective ass off, complete and utter waste of offensive talent

HAT
01-19-2010, 06:25 PM
Last years' offense with this years' defense= 12 wins and doing some damage in the playoffs. Total shame, total waste of a defense playing its' collective ass off, complete and utter waste of offensive talent

Wrong!


If the '09 Broncos scored exactly 27 points in each and every game....That average would've been good for 5th in the NFL behind only the Saints, Vikings, Packers and Chargers.

The only loss where 27 points was guaranteed to change into a win was the Raider game.

Yes...More points for Denver could possibly translate into less for their opponents but it's pure speculation.

Gob
01-19-2010, 06:30 PM
If the '09 Broncos scored exactly 27 points in each and every game....That average would've been good for 5th in the NFL behind only the Saints, Vikings, Packers and Chargers.

Quite honestly that was where my expectations were before the season, to be around 5th or so in scoring. I justified us hiring an offensive coach over a defensive one because I figured an offensive one would get our scoring rank closer to our yardage rank. I guess he did, but not in the way I was expecting.

strafen
01-19-2010, 06:31 PM
Dragster is a member of the Chicken Little brigade, certainly. Every single move is a "disaster" waiting to happen.

So, having 3 key coaching vacancies to fill, an offense to fix, a defense that now has become a huge question mark going into next season, is now not a disaster waiting to happen?
I think the disaster is already a reality. I think the disaster has happened...

You tell me how you like our chances going into next season?
This will be McDaniels second year. Do you think he's made any positive strides to get this team in a position to compete?
I think not.

HAT
01-19-2010, 06:32 PM
So, having 3 key coaching vacancies to fill, an offense to fix, a defense that now has become a huge question mark going into next season, is now not a disaster waiting to happen?
I think the disaster is already a reality. I think the disaster has happened...

You tell me how you like our chances going into next season?
This will be McDaniels second year. Do you think he's made any positive strides to get this team in a position to compete?
I think not.

I think you should change your handle to Disaster69. :thumbsup:

strafen
01-19-2010, 06:36 PM
I think you should change your handle to Disaster69. :thumbsup:I like that, but I think McDisaster2009 sounds better... :thumbsup:

Archer81
01-19-2010, 06:38 PM
I like that, but I think McDisaster2009 sounds better... :thumbsup:


Add -atron to the end of that, and you are your own Autobot.


:Broncos:

uplink
01-19-2010, 07:23 PM
Heard on Joshtina's tweet that McD will have the accounts of internet Broncos fan forum members revoked if they aren't secretly Pats lovers.