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View Full Version : Why don't we franchise Marshall?


supermanhr9
01-15-2010, 06:51 AM
There is all this talk about upcoming free agents getting franchised, is there any good reason why we don't franchise Marshall?

Ray Finkle
01-15-2010, 06:54 AM
why franchise a player you are going to trade? You tender him for a 1st and 3rd and let him go elsewhere....Franchise Doom.

ColoradoDarin
01-15-2010, 06:55 AM
$$$$

I doubt anyone's giving up 2 #1's for Marshall, but I think someone would give up a 1 & 3 (Roy Williams, Jared Allen for a couple of precedents). If we tender him the highest RFA, it's only $3 million, a little more than he was making last season - which gives him and his agent a lot of motivation to find another team to pony up some dollars for him. If we franchise him, he makes really good money at least for one year. If you want to move him, you tender him RFA.

broncofan7
01-15-2010, 06:57 AM
Because McGenius thinks HIS scheme--you know the one that scored only 30 TD's this season with the all pro talent that is Brandon Marshall--- is greater than the players who execute it. 4-12 or 5-11 next year will tell him otherwise.

Rabb
01-15-2010, 07:01 AM
why franchise a player you are going to trade? You tender him for a 1st and 3rd and let him go elsewhere....Franchise Doom.

bingo

bronco militia
01-15-2010, 07:02 AM
you only franchies an unrestricted player

TheDave
01-15-2010, 07:13 AM
you only franchies an unrestricted player

This... Since he is a RFA, you tender him a 1st & a 3rd and see if he can work something out with another team. Then we decide if we match or take the compensation.

SoDak Bronco
01-15-2010, 07:16 AM
What do we do with Kuper? Does he fit the power running scheme that we want going foward? I believe he is a RFA, and I thought you could only put a 1st/3rd tender on one player and that will be Marshall. Anyone know how that works?

supermanhr9
01-15-2010, 07:20 AM
Thanks gentlemen. I was un clear on when you actually franchise a player. I agree 100% then, we need to franchise DOOM. I bet we will

Broncoman13
01-15-2010, 07:20 AM
Why would you franchise him, pay him the WR Avg top 5 salary and be forced to keep him when you can just offer him a 1st and 3rd tender and then if the market sets his price lower than he is expecting and he accepts it, the Broncos can match and keep him.

Here is another thought. Marshall's agent is likely telling him the timing of all of this. There is a good chance that Marshall (and several other FAs) will have to accept less than fair market value, if they want a long and lucrative contract. Marshall's production leads you to believe that he is a 5 year $50m dollar player with a bonus coming in the neighborhood of $15m. Marshall's agents are most likely telling him that he could be tagged as a 1st and 3rd making about $3.1m in 2010. In 2011 there is a good chance that there won't be football and no long term contract as result. The Broncos could franchise him which would give him a $7m pay day for the 2012 season. So, he's looking at making $10m over the next three years... So, what if the Broncos went to him right now, offered him 5 years $40m with an $8-10m bonus. That gives him $8m up front and probably a base salary in 2010 of about $5m. So in one year he can make more than he would by holding out for a bigger contract that may never come. Add to this equation the fact that in 2012, there is a chance that he's been sitting around for a year and that only complicates matters for him. PLUS, he'll be two years older and probably signing his last major contract. If he signs now, there is still a chance that he signs another good contract in 2015 or so.

TheDave
01-15-2010, 07:28 AM
What do we do with Kuper? Does he fit the power running scheme that we want going foward? I believe he is a RFA, and I thought you could only put a 1st/3rd tender on one player and that will be Marshall. Anyone know how that works?

I have not read anything on a limit to the tenders you can offer your RFA's... Here is pretty good write up on some of the new rules for this off season.




When can players start being signed in the 2009 free agency signing period?
Beginning at 11:01 p.m. (CT) on Thursday, February 26.

What are the categories of free agency?

Players are either "restricted" or "unrestricted" free agents. Within the categories are also "transition" and "franchise" players.

What is the time period for free agency signings this year?

For restricted free agents, from Feb. 27 to April 17; for unrestricted free agents, from Feb. 27 to July 22 (or the first scheduled day of the first NFL training camp, whichever is later); and for franchise players, from Feb. 27 until the Tuesday after the 10th week of the season (Nov. 17).

What is the difference between a restricted free agent and an unrestricted free agent?

Players become restricted free agents when they complete three accrued seasons and their contract expires. Unrestricted free agents have completed four or more accrued seasons with an expired contract.

What constitutes an "accrued season?"

Six or more regular-season games on a club's active/inactive, reserve/injured or "physically unable to perform" lists.

Other than accrued seasons, what determines a restricted free agent?

He has received a "qualifying" offer (a salary level predetermined by the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the league and its players) from his old club. He can negotiate with any club through April 17. If the restricted free agent accepts an offer sheet from a new club, his old club can match the offer and retain him because it has the "right of first refusal." If the old club does not match the offer, it can possibly receive draft-choice compensation depending on the amount of its qualifying offer. If an offer sheet is not executed, the player's rights revert exclusively to his old club after April 17.

What determines an unrestricted free agent?

A player with four or more accrued seasons whose contract has expired. He is free to sign with any club, with no compensation owed to his old club, through July 22 (or the first scheduled day of the first NFL training camp, whichever is later). On July 23, his rights revert to his old club if it made a "tender" offer (110 percent of last year's salary) to him by June 1. His old club then has until the Tuesday after the 10th week of the season (Nov. 17) to sign him. If he does not sign by Nov. 17, he must sit out the season. If no tender is offered by June 1, the player can be signed by any club at any time throughout the season.

What determines a transition player?

A club can designate one transition player (or one franchise player) in any given year. The player's club must offer a minimum of the average of the top 10 salaries of last season at the player's position or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. A transition player designation gives the club a first-refusal right to match within seven days an offer sheet given to the player by another club after his contract expires. If the club matches, it retains the player. If it does not match, it receives no compensation.

What determines a franchise player?

A club can designate one franchise player (or one transition player) in any given year. The salary level offer by a player's club determines what type of franchise player he is. An "exclusive" franchise player - not free to sign with another club - is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries at the player's position for the current year as of April 17, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, or the average of the top five salaries at his position as of the end of last season - whichever of the three is greater. If the player is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries of last season at his position, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, he becomes a "non-exclusive" franchise player and can negotiate with other clubs. His old club can match a new club's offer, or receive two first-round draft choices if it decides not to match.

Can a club decide to withdraw its franchise or transition designations on a player? If so, can it then use them on other players?

A club can withdraw its franchise or transition designations and the player then automatically becomes an unrestricted free agent either immediately or when his contract expires. The club cannot name a new franchise or transition player that year. It can name a new franchise or transition player the next year.

What is the salary cap for 2009?

The salary cap is $123 million per club.

When does the CBA expire should there be no extension to the agreement?

In March of 2011.

Will there be a college draft in 2011?

Yes.

What is the "Final League Year" in the current agreement?

The "Final League Year" is the term used in the CBA to refer to the last year of the agreement. Without a further extension of the CBA, the "Final League Year" would be the 2010 League Year.

What are the differences between the "Final League Year" and any other "League Year?"

The principal differences are that in the "Final League Year" there is no salary cap and there are substantial additional restrictions on player free agency and reductions in player benefits.

Now that 2009 is the last capped year, are there rules that impact player contract negotiations and a club's salary cap planning?

Yes. Here are the key differences:


After the last game of the 2008 regular season, signing bonus proration was reduced from a maximum of six years to a maximum of five years.
In 2009, there is no June 1 rule for Signing Bonus acceleration. If a player is removed from the roster or his contract is assigned via waivers or trade at any time in the 2009 League Year, any unamortized signing bonus will be immediately included in Team Salary.
There is no year-end netting of incentives in 2009. Not-likely-to-be-earned incentives are charged to team salary immediately when earned, and likely-to-be-earned incentives are deducted when they are no longer possible to earn.
Guaranteed salary from 2010 and beyond is reallocated to 2009 unless the entire 2009 salary is guaranteed.
50% of guaranteed salary in any League Year beyond 2012 is reallocated to 2009.
The 30% increase rule restricts salary increases from 2009 to 2010. For example: A player with a $500,000 salary in 2009 would be limited to annual salary increases of $150,000 ($500,000 x 30%) beginning in 2010.
A team can include only three veteran team incentives in a player contract covering 2009 and beyond. These incentives must also be coupled with a playtime requirement. Previously, clubs were limited to eight team incentives and no playtime requirement.
Are current player benefits affected in the Final League Year?

We expect player benefits to decline in the Final League Year. The union agreed that in the Final League Year, clubs would be relieved of their obligation to fund numerous benefit programs. Examples include second career savings (401K), player annuity, severance pay, performance-based pay and tuition assistance.

What determines an unrestricted free agent in the Final League Year (2010)?

In capped seasons, a player whose contract has expired becomes an unrestricted free agent if he has four or more accrued seasons. In the Final League Year (2010), a player whose contract has expired becomes an unrestricted free agent only if he has six or more accrued seasons. An unrestricted free agent is free to sign with any club with no compensation owed to his old club.

What determines whether a player is a restricted free agent in the "Final League Year?"

In capped seasons, a player whose contract expires becomes a restricted free agent if he has three accrued seasons. In the Final League Year (2010), a player whose contract expires becomes a restricted free agent if he has three, four or five accrued seasons. The rights of restricted free agents remain unchanged in the Final League Year.

In addition to the right to designate a franchise (or transition) player each capped year, can clubs designate additional players in the Final League Year?

Yes, one additional player can be tagged. In capped years, a club may designate a franchise player or a transition player. In the final league year (2010), a club may designate one additional transition player. A transition player must be offered a minimum of the average of the top 10 salaries of the prior season at the player's position or 120 percent of the player's prior year's salary, whichever is greater. A transition player designation gives the club a first-refusal right to match within seven days an offer sheet given to the player by another club after his contract expires. If the club matches, it retains the player. If it does not match, it receives no compensation.

What is the Final Eight Plan?

During the Final League Year, the eight clubs that make the divisional playoffs in the previous season have additional restrictions that limit their ability to sign unrestricted free agents from other clubs. In general, the four clubs participating in the championship games are limited in the number of free agents that they may sign; the limit is determined by the number of their own free agents signing with other clubs. For the four clubs that lose in the Divisional Playoffs, in addition to having the ability to sign free agents based on the number of their own free agents signing with other clubs, they may also sign players based on specific financial parameters.

Is there an Entering Player Pool in the Final League Year?

There may be. The CBA provides that the league has the unilateral right to keep or eliminate the rookie pool in the Final League Year.

Is there a Minimum Team Salary in the Final League Year?

There is no Minimum Team Salary in the Final League Year. The Minimum Team Salary in 2009 is projected to be $107.748 million, meaning each team is required to allocate $107 million on player costs (not including benefits). The team salary cap in 2009 is $123 million.

Are there individual player minimum salaries in the Final League Year?

Yes, but they rise at a rate somewhat slower than player minimum salaries rise in capped years.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/news.cfm?id=A58B619D-DBB7-60C9-EA882000BB6A4D15

missingnumber7
01-15-2010, 07:31 AM
What do we do with Kuper? Does he fit the power running scheme that we want going foward? I believe he is a RFA, and I thought you could only put a 1st/3rd tender on one player and that will be Marshall. Anyone know how that works?

Everyone sends PM's to Kupesdad and tells him to make sure his son has common sense and signs with the Broncos.

Or more seriously I think they pay him and he stays. He fits the system, and is big enough to play where they want him.

gyldenlove
01-15-2010, 07:36 AM
Here is how I would play it:

Negotiate like mad with Dumervil, he will only get more valuable if we let him play another season on a 1 year deal. This is the time to hook him.

Franchise Marshall. Then you have more freedom to explore either resigning him or trading without risking a team like Baltimore swooping in with an offer of a low 1st and low 3rd that you can't counter.

Kuper you give the 2nd round tender. If someone wants to pony up a 2nd round pick we have right of first refusal anyway, or we can take the pick and run, depends what else we do in FA.

Scheffler you give the low tender if nobody has offered a trade by the deadline. He would then be worth a 2nd round pick anyway so this gives some freedom in exploring a possible trade.

The good thing is there is no salary cap so we won't have to pay Marshall a dime before the season starts anyway so we have lots of time to resign or trade, plus we don't have to comply with a salary cap so the franchise tag is free over the summer.

Taco John
01-15-2010, 07:43 AM
why franchise a player you are going to trade? You tender him for a 1st and 3rd and let him go elsewhere....Franchise Doom.

Franchising Doom would be the same as signing Josh McDaniels pink slip, IMO. The players wouldn't respect that at all. Doom deserves a long term extension with guaranteed money. If the organization doesn't provide that, players are going to ask themselves about their own long term prospects with Denver. It's absolutely the wrong message to send to the locker room.

Taco John
01-15-2010, 07:46 AM
$$$$

I doubt anyone's giving up 2 #1's for Marshall, but I think someone would give up a 1 & 3 (Roy Williams, Jared Allen for a couple of precedents). If we tender him the highest RFA, it's only $3 million, a little more than he was making last season - which gives him and his agent a lot of motivation to find another team to pony up some dollars for him. If we franchise him, he makes really good money at least for one year. If you want to move him, you tender him RFA.

I agree that this is the best way to deal with Marshall, given the contentiousness between himself and the coach.

Hercules Rockefeller
01-15-2010, 07:55 AM
Franchising Doom would be the same as signing Josh McDaniels pink slip, IMO. The players wouldn't respect that at all. Doom deserves a long term extension with guaranteed money. If the organization doesn't provide that, players are going to ask themselves about their own long term prospects with Denver. It's absolutely the wrong message to send to the locker room.

Are you ****ing serious? Most guys who get tagged are tagged because their teams want to keep them long-term, but the sides can't get a deal worked out before the franchise date. Someone like Peppers is an exception, not the norm.

Taco John
01-15-2010, 07:56 AM
Are you ****ing serious? Most guys who get tagged are tagged because their teams want to keep them long-term, but the sides can't get a deal worked out before the franchise date. Someone like Peppers is an exception, not the norm.

When is the last time you heard a player happy that they got tagged? The way you are describing the tag here, though, is accurate. It should be a fall back strategy, not the plan.

Hercules Rockefeller
01-15-2010, 07:58 AM
When is the last time you heard a player happy that they got tagged?

Just because they're not happy they've been tagged, doesn't mean it sends the wrong message to the lockerroom or cause players to lose respect for the coach. You're trying to change your argument midstream TJ.

And again, most teams tag guys because they can't get the deal worked out in time, not because they have the intention of tagging them for a year and not doing anything about it.

And since you've added to your initial post, the tag is always a last resort-type thing, especially in capped years. It was too big of a chunk of money dedicated to one player.

Taco John
01-15-2010, 08:01 AM
Just because they're not happy they've been tagged, doesn't mean it sends the wrong message to the lockerroom or cause players to lose respect for the coach. You're trying to change your argument midstream TJ.

And again, most teams tag guys because they can't get the deal worked out in time, not because they have the intention of tagging them for a year and not doing anything about it.


I'm not changing my argument. We're saying the same thing.

People are talking about slapping a tag on him, and then kicking his agent out the door to find his market value. That isn't going to play well in the locker room. The Broncos have to do their own good faith negotiations up front and try to get the guy locked up before even thinking about tagging the guy.

Ray Finkle
01-15-2010, 08:21 AM
Franchising Doom would be the same as signing Josh McDaniels pink slip, IMO. The players wouldn't respect that at all. Doom deserves a long term extension with guaranteed money. If the organization doesn't provide that, players are going to ask themselves about their own long term prospects with Denver. It's absolutely the wrong message to send to the locker room.

probably wasn't clear on my post. If you are going to franchise someone, it would be Doom....

supermanhr9
01-15-2010, 08:25 AM
I'd love to be tagged. I'd get a tattoo saying, "You're welcome Denver".

WolfpackGuy
01-15-2010, 08:28 AM
"The Coach" wants to make sure he gets rid of Marshall.

Not franchising him facilitates that even more.

DrFate
01-15-2010, 08:41 AM
Marshall is as good as gone...

No tag needed

Rabb
01-15-2010, 09:07 AM
When is the last time you heard a player happy that they got tagged? The way you are describing the tag here, though, is accurate. It should be a fall back strategy, not the plan.

T Sizzle

supermanhr9
01-15-2010, 09:11 AM
Well, I am interested then who steps up into our #1 position. Eddie is not a true #1, or is he? He is the man afterall.

HEAV
01-15-2010, 09:20 AM
Are you ****ing serious? Most guys who get tagged are tagged because their teams want to keep them long-term, but the sides can't get a deal worked out before the franchise date. Someone like Peppers is an exception, not the norm.



It's TJ looking for a chance to see McDaniels fired.

Pony Boy
01-15-2010, 09:33 AM
Marshall is as good as gone...

No tag needed

I think if we tag him, his hammy will never get better......

broncofan7
01-15-2010, 10:07 AM
It's TJ looking for a chance to see McDaniels fired.

as if the worst 10 game stretch to finish a season in 40 years ISN'T enough..........

kupesdad
01-15-2010, 03:56 PM
Everyone sends PM's to Kupesdad and tells him to make sure his son has common sense and signs with the Broncos.

Or more seriously I think they pay him and he stays. He fits the system, and is big enough to play where they want him.

Bad idea.. I have a lot of time on my hands and I'm pretty cranky. Chris loves the Broncos and his favorite colors are orange and blue....or is it green? I keep forgetting :rofl::rofl::giggle::giggle: