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bloodsunday
01-13-2010, 10:16 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14176465

Many who have corresponded over the past week or so have taken great exception to the premise that not every football guy in the NFL is poised to surrender a bounty of draft picks in a trade to the Broncos for Pro Bowl wide receiver Brandon Marshall.

It seems some people are troubled by the idea that any number of general managers and pro personnel executives believe Marshall has plenty going for him but still aren't sure if he can rise above what they characterize as "very good" status.

Many folks in Broncos Nation blame quarterback Kyle Orton for the fact that 64.4 percent of Marshall's receiving plays went for 10 yards or fewer as he finished with an average of 11.1 yards per catch.

But in the 2008 season, the Broncos passed for 4,471 yards a record for the franchise with Jay Cutler at quarterback. Marshall averaged 12.2 yards per catch that season and did not have a reception longer than 47 yards; he had three in 2009.

In an offense that passed the ball 620 times 61.6 percent of the time, and 62 times more than this past season Marshall still had just over half of his receiving plays (51 percent) go for 10 yards or fewer.

Marshall had 13 receiving plays of more than 21 yards in 2008 and 10 in 2009. He had six touchdown catches in 2008 and 10 in 2009.

Even in the "wide open" Denver offense of 2008, as some have called it, and with Cutler in the shotgun most of the time, the only area of the field where Marshall had significantly more production than the 2009 season was between 11 and 20 yards, not down the field.

Some of that is because the Broncos wanted the ball out quickly Cutler was sacked just 11 times, even with his 616 attempts in 2008 but also because of Marshall's comfort level catching the ball on routes that call for him to face the quarterback. Those are short to intermediate routes in the middle of the field for the most part, more horizontal than vertical.

There's no question Marshall has the size and strength to dominate smaller cornerbacks. But it's still a question mark exactly how many of the NFL's toughest critics the personnel executives the Broncos are going to ask to trade for him believe Marshall is an elite player at his position.

The Broncos will get the answer to that in the coming weeks, and they need it to be at least one.

bloodsunday
01-13-2010, 10:19 AM
Let me ask the Brandon Marshall apologists this question: Would you trade a 1st and a 3rd plus a $55M contract to have Wes Welker on your team?

That's basically what you'd be getting. At least Welker can return punts and is a "high character" guy.

Paladin
01-13-2010, 10:48 AM
Good Question. Who wants to take it?

bloodsunday
01-13-2010, 10:51 AM
After watching the Jets blitz the middle of the field all day against them (leaving it wide open), I think Cincy could use a guy like Brandon to compliment Ochocinco. Just not sure the price is worth it.

gyldenlove
01-13-2010, 11:35 AM
Let me ask the Brandon Marshall apologists this question: Would you trade a 1st and a 3rd plus a $55M contract to have Wes Welker on your team?

That's basically what you'd be getting. At least Welker can return punts and is a "high character" guy.

No.

Welker is very good, but he is not a game changer and his value as a returner is limited at best. Welker gets many of receptions as a result of Moss's double teaming, he is not a guy who can be a number 1 and with his limited size he will never be a red zone target.

There is little in Welker we don't already have in other players.

bronco militia
01-13-2010, 12:16 PM
Let me ask the Brandon Marshall apologists this question: Would you trade a 1st and a 3rd plus a $55M contract to have Wes Welker on your team?

That's basically what you'd be getting. At least Welker can return punts and is a "high character" guy.

eddie royal is that guy.....I'm not sure why McDumbass didn't put him in the slot this year.

OBF1
01-13-2010, 12:17 PM
Oh yes BM is worth a 1st and 3rd :)

Lolad
01-13-2010, 01:34 PM
This article is just stringing information together only to validate his claim. The author wouldn't want you to know that both Fitzgerald and Boldin were right @ 11 ypc or that Majority of the WR's are within those same exact numbers

What WR don't you know that's comfortable facing the ball? How does he know that Marshall doesn't like catching the ball while running. I've seen so many routes this year where Marshall beat the jam and was streaking on a seam and he either was overrthrown or underthrown.

The QB has a lot to do with YPC as well as playcalling. If this author couldn't see that we we're basically throwing to make for our inept rubbing game he's an idiot. Hence the short passes and clearly not enough deep balls

Mr.Meanie
01-13-2010, 01:35 PM
Let me ask the Brandon Marshall apologists this question: Would you trade a 1st and a 3rd plus a $55M contract to have Wes Welker on your team?

That's basically what you'd be getting. At least Welker can return punts and is a "high character" guy.

No.

ColoradoBuff
01-13-2010, 02:21 PM
I think BM will be Bronco next year!

bloodsunday
01-13-2010, 02:57 PM
This article is just stringing information together only to validate his claim.
Actually Legwold is a football junkie known for draft and player analysis. This is not his claim. He gathered much of this information from talking to other GMs and personnel people (scouts) around the league. This is the perception of Marshall. And the stats back it up. The perception (fair or unfair) is very important because it will dictate how much leverage Marshall has and how much Denver could get in return for a trade.

The author wouldn't want you to know that both Fitzgerald and Boldin were right @ 11 ypc or that Majority of the WR's are within those same exact numbers
Umm ACTUALLY, B-Marsh finished 82nd in the league in YPC. Even if you take his number from last year (12.2), that would be good for 64th in the league this year. Of the top 30 players in total receptions, only 5 of them finished lower than B-Marsh, and 4 of them are TE. One is a running back (Ray Rice).

What WR don't you know that's comfortable facing the ball? How does he know that Marshall doesn't like catching the ball while running. I've seen so many routes this year where Marshall beat the jam and was streaking on a seam and he either was overrthrown or underthrown.
This is a scout's take on what Marshall does best.

The QB has a lot to do with YPC as well as playcalling. If this author couldn't see that we we're basically throwing to make for our inept rubbing game he's an idiot. Hence the short passes and clearly not enough deep balls
He addressed this point by comparing the "wide open" offense of 2008 and this year's offense. The numbers tell more or less the same story.

The overriding point is that we can replace B-Marsh's production. He's not worth the hassle. And, we should be careful if we think other teams are going to line up for a chance to offers us 2 draft picks for him.

bloodsunday
01-13-2010, 03:00 PM
eddie royal is that guy.....I'm not sure why McDumbass didn't put him in the slot this year.

I don't think it's that simple. That's part of the equation here. Everyone assumed that when he took over and installed the "NE offense" that Marshall would be Randy Moss and Royal would be Welker. Turns out Marshall is closer to Welker. We don't have a Moss - stretch the defense - kind of WR right now. That's why I think we audios B-Marsh and try to find us one of them. Gaffney and Royal can replace B-Marsh's production as the slot/possession WR.

I'm sure McDaniels would like to use more his talent, but when your 3 best WR play essentially the same position, you have a problem.

gunns
01-13-2010, 05:16 PM
No.

Welker is very good, but he is not a game changer and his value as a returner is limited at best. Welker gets many of receptions as a result of Moss's double teaming, he is not a guy who can be a number 1 and with his limited size he will never be a red zone target.

There is little in Welker we don't already have in other players.

There isn't a wide receiver in the league that will get you to a SB. They may win a game here or there on an amazing catch but receivers need a very good QB to even be that amazing WR. NE won a SB without game changing WR's and now that they have a "star receiver" they can't win one. I really like Welker but no, I wouldn't expend that amount for ANY receiver. I'm just hoping there is a team out there dumb enough to do it.

cutthemdown
01-13-2010, 05:49 PM
deep balls do help the rubbing game quite a bit.

That is so gay!!!!!!!!!

Lolad
01-13-2010, 06:07 PM
Actually Legwold is a football junkie known for draft and player analysis. This is not his claim. He gathered much of this information from talking to other GMs and personnel people (scouts) around the league.

He's better then Roy Williams I think we both can agree and If the Cowboys gave up that for him. Then I think we can expect Marshall to garner the same if not more.

This is the perception of Marshall. And the stats back it up. The perception (fair or unfair) is very important because it will dictate how much leverage Marshall has and how much Denver could get in return for a trade.

You have to look at the numbers of catches a guy with 10 catches with 3 going deep is going to look good. His data is skewed reason being if you look @ WR's with 70+ Receptions Which equates to 30 players (We can assume these are number 1 WR's/TE Because they were targeted a lot) Only 12 of them have Over 13+ YPC Of those 12 ALL of them have a better QB throwing them the ball.

Like I pointed out before unless these same executives believe based purely on YPC that Larry Fitzgerald isnt a top 5 WR based on identical numbers this year then his whole point it wrong from the very beginning.

elsid13
01-13-2010, 06:35 PM
"But in the 2008 season, the Broncos passed for 4,471 yards a record for the franchise with Jay Cutler at quarterback. Marshall averaged 12.2 yards per catch that season and did not have a reception longer than 47 yards; he had three in 2009."

Marshall had a hip that required surgery and yet still produced 12 yard a catch and people are saying he average???

Marshall is a guy that DC around the NFL have to account for when they play the Broncos by rolling coverage his way and having safety help over the top. He has enormous value to any team he plays for.

TheDave
01-13-2010, 06:54 PM
"But in the 2008 season, the Broncos passed for 4,471 yards a record for the franchise with Jay Cutler at quarterback. Marshall averaged 12.2 yards per catch that season and did not have a reception longer than 47 yards; he had three in 2009."

Marshall had a hip that required surgery and yet still produced 12 yard a catch and people are saying he average???

Marshall is a guy that DC around have to account when they play the Broncos by rolling coverage his way and having safety help over the top. He has enormous value to any team he plays for.

More importantly... he is the ONLY guy on our offense that tuly worries a defensive coordinator.

Popps
01-13-2010, 07:35 PM
It's a fair write-up. Marshall isn't a top 5 WR, in my opinion... but I sure wish he could stick around and contribute.

But, I just don't trust that this guy is ever going to have his head on straight. He held it together for 10 games or so, but must have been way out of line to garner the kind of opinion among his teammates that he did.

At a certain point, you have to go find a different play-maker if this guy can't get his **** together.

I have no idea what his value will be. I thought Chicago overpaid for Cutler, so maybe someone will overpay for Marshall. Somehow, I doubt we'll be as happy as we were with the Cutler bounty.

yavoon
01-13-2010, 07:41 PM
No.

Welker is very good, but he is not a game changer and his value as a returner is limited at best. Welker gets many of receptions as a result of Moss's double teaming, he is not a guy who can be a number 1 and with his limited size he will never be a red zone target.

There is little in Welker we don't already have in other players.

I use to believe this, but I don't think very many teams are double teaming moss anymore. frankly moss looks pathetic right now, maybe he has some hiddein belicheat injury. as long as teams don't put two real coverage ppl on welker then I think he will always produce, he's that good.

gyldenlove
01-13-2010, 08:18 PM
I use to believe this, but I don't think very many teams are double teaming moss anymore. frankly moss looks pathetic right now, maybe he has some hiddein belicheat injury. as long as teams don't put two real coverage ppl on welker then I think he will always produce, he's that good.

I didn't see too many Patriots games this year, but Moss was definitely double covered consistently against the Jets in game 1, against New Orleans, Carolina and 2nd Buffalo game.

Welker never sees double coverage.

TheDave
01-13-2010, 08:21 PM
I didn't see too many Patriots games this year, but Moss was definitely double covered consistently against the Jets in game 1, against New Orleans, Carolina and 2nd Buffalo game.

Welker never sees double coverage.

I have a lot of trouble believing that the Jets doubled him with Revis in their secondary.

Atwater His Ass
01-13-2010, 08:23 PM
More importantly... he is the ONLY guy on our offense that tuly worries a defensive coordinator.

good idea to bench him then in the season finale

TheDave
01-13-2010, 08:25 PM
good idea to bench him then in the season finale

IMO the worst thing about that was telegraphing it by deactivating during the week... At least make KC game plan for him.

Lolad
01-13-2010, 09:17 PM
It's a fair write-up. Marshall isn't a top 5 WR, in my opinion... but I sure wish he could stick around and contribute.

But, I just don't trust that this guy is ever going to have his head on straight. He held it together for 10 games or so, but must have been way out of line to garner the kind of opinion among his teammates that he did.

At a certain point, you have to go find a different play-maker if this guy can't get his **** together.

I have no idea what his value will be. I thought Chicago overpaid for Cutler, so maybe someone will overpay for Marshall. Somehow, I doubt we'll be as happy as we were with the Cutler bounty.

Nobody is saying he is a top 5 WR at the moment Top 10 is a good place for him

DivineLegion
01-13-2010, 09:19 PM
Let me ask the Brandon Marshall apologists this question: Would you trade a 1st and a 3rd plus a $55M contract to have Wes Welker on your team?

That's basically what you'd be getting. At least Welker can return punts and is a "high character" guy.

He can kick fieldgoals too, he did that in Miami in 06' when Mare went down.

Of course Marshall seems to have some punting skills so maybe that is irrelavent.

yavoon
01-13-2010, 09:52 PM
I didn't see too many Patriots games this year, but Moss was definitely double covered consistently against the Jets in game 1, against New Orleans, Carolina and 2nd Buffalo game.

Welker never sees double coverage.

having someone over the top is not double coverage, most of the league runs 2+ in deep. I didn't see any real double coverage on moss, and the plays I saw moss run looked absolutely pathetic. I seriously doubt the jets paid special attention to him at all, aside from trying to keep revis on him and whatever other normal schemes they run.

bloodsunday
01-14-2010, 12:30 PM
Nobody is saying he is a top 5 WR at the moment Top 10 is a good place for him

I think top 10 is being generous. Top 15? Probably. Below is just a sampling of guys that I think are as good (or better than Brandon), especially if you count the total package (his attitude, his legal problems, he below average speed).

1 Andre Johnson,
2 Wes Welker, WR
3 Miles Austin, WR
4 Sidney Rice, WR
5 Randy Moss, WR
6 Reggie Wayne, WR
7 Santonio Holmes, WR
8 Steve Smith, WR NYG
9 Vincent Jackson, WR
10 Hines Ward, WR
13 Roddy White, WR ATL
15 Greg Jennings, WR
17 Larry Fitzgerald, WR
18 Marques Colston, WR
19 Donald Driver, WR GNB
20 Chad Ochocinco, WR

Lolad
01-14-2010, 03:47 PM
I think top 10 is being generous. Top 15? Probably. Below is just a sampling of guys that I think are as good (or better than Brandon), especially if you count the total package (his attitude, his legal problems, he below average speed).

1 Andre Johnson,
2 Wes Welker, WR
3 Miles Austin, WR
4 Sidney Rice, WR
5 Randy Moss, WR
6 Reggie Wayne, WR
7 Santonio Holmes, WR
8 Steve Smith, WR NYG
9 Vincent Jackson, WR
10 Hines Ward, WR
13 Roddy White, WR ATL
15 Greg Jennings, WR
17 Larry Fitzgerald, WR
18 Marques Colston, WR
19 Donald Driver, WR GNB
20 Chad Ochocinco, WR

We aren't talking about attitudes.... He is more of an impact player then half the people on this list. The WR's you listed most of them haven't even put up comparable numbers or have done it consistently

TheDave
01-14-2010, 07:25 PM
I think top 10 is being generous. Top 15? Probably. Below is just a sampling of guys that I think are as good (or better than Brandon), especially if you count the total package (his attitude, his legal problems, he below average speed).

1 Andre Johnson,
2 Wes Welker, WR
3 Miles Austin, WR
4 Sidney Rice, WR
5 Randy Moss, WR
6 Reggie Wayne, WR
7 Santonio Holmes, WR
8 Steve Smith, WR NYG
9 Vincent Jackson, WR
10 Hines Ward, WR
13 Roddy White, WR ATL
15 Greg Jennings, WR
17 Larry Fitzgerald, WR
18 Marques Colston, WR
19 Donald Driver, WR GNB
20 Chad Ochocinco, WR

Larry Fitzgerald @ 17 Hilarious!

Please tell me that this list is "In no particular Order"

Drek
01-14-2010, 08:02 PM
eddie royal is that guy.....I'm not sure why McDumbass didn't put him in the slot this year.

Thats because you don't know **** about football and obviously didn't pay a damn bit of attention to any real football talk that came out of dove valley during this past summer.

McDaniels needed a field stretcher for the X receiver. Marshall doesn't have field stretching speed. Gaffney doesn't have field stretching speed. Stokley doesn't even have it much anymore. Know who does? Eddie Royal.

So when you can have either Marshall or Gaffney playing the Y WR role (lot of intermediate routes, attacking around the hashes and on the sidelines with hooks and outs), and either Stokley or Royal playing the Z WR role (the traditional Welker role with a lot of crossing routes like slants), only Royal could play the X WR role as the deep threat.

Is it a problem that Orton can't make use of the X WR like Tom Brady can? Sure, but its also a problem that Orton can't read defenses like Peyton Manning or put a ball someone's palms from 40 yards away like Drew Brees. Its never ideal when you don't have an elite QB. We haven't had one since John Elway walked out the door though, so accept it.

I'm expecting us to pursue a real X WR this off-season letting Royal take over the Z WR role. If we move Marshall Gaffney will be the Y and we'll need to find a quality X. If we keep Marshall and Gaffney is the rotating 4th WR (he does know all the roles even if he isn't well suited to all of them athletically) then we can roll the dice on a field stretcher for the X.

I personally think Josh Cribbs would be a great choice for that role. He's very unhappy in Cleveland thanks to a grossly low extension offer, we could probably acquire him for a 3rd, at most a 2nd. He'd give us an elite returner so that Royal could focus on slot duties in the 3 WR sets while Cribbs is brought in to stretch the field and pull open the defense's coverage. In 2 WR sets Cribbs comes off the field and you go with jush Royal and Marshall. That is probably what we'll open a lot of possessions in anyhow, since McDaniels likes to run out of the two TE formation.

bloodsunday
01-21-2010, 11:53 AM
We aren't talking about attitudes.... He is more of an impact player then half the people on this list. The WR's you listed most of them haven't even put up comparable numbers or have done it consistently

I beg to differ. He averages 12.3 YPC, 66 YPG, and 6 TDs per year in his career. Those are not playmaker stats.

And before you go all "2009 Denver Broncos ran a conservative offense" on me, note that those stats are weighted 75 percent by years with Cutler and Shanahan.

bloodsunday
01-21-2010, 11:54 AM
Larry Fitzgerald @ 17 Hilarious!

Please tell me that this list is "In no particular Order"

There is an inherent order in the list, based of 2009 stats. But to answer your question, that is not my desired order of who I would bring in. I was just trying to show you people the company that Brandon is keeping in the top 15.

_Oro_
01-21-2010, 11:58 AM
Thats because you don't know **** about football and obviously didn't pay a damn bit of attention to any real football talk that came out of dove valley during this past summer.

McDaniels needed a field stretcher for the X receiver. Marshall doesn't have field stretching speed. Gaffney doesn't have field stretching speed. Stokley doesn't even have it much anymore. Know who does? Eddie Royal.

So when you can have either Marshall or Gaffney playing the Y WR role (lot of intermediate routes, attacking around the hashes and on the sidelines with hooks and outs), and either Stokley or Royal playing the Z WR role (the traditional Welker role with a lot of crossing routes like slants), only Royal could play the X WR role as the deep threat.

Is it a problem that Orton can't make use of the X WR like Tom Brady can? Sure, but its also a problem that Orton can't read defenses like Peyton Manning or put a ball someone's palms from 40 yards away like Drew Brees. Its never ideal when you don't have an elite QB. We haven't had one since John Elway walked out the door though, so accept it.

I'm expecting us to pursue a real X WR this off-season letting Royal take over the Z WR role. If we move Marshall Gaffney will be the Y and we'll need to find a quality X. If we keep Marshall and Gaffney is the rotating 4th WR (he does know all the roles even if he isn't well suited to all of them athletically) then we can roll the dice on a field stretcher for the X.

I personally think Josh Cribbs would be a great choice for that role. He's very unhappy in Cleveland thanks to a grossly low extension offer, we could probably acquire him for a 3rd, at most a 2nd. He'd give us an elite returner so that Royal could focus on slot duties in the 3 WR sets while Cribbs is brought in to stretch the field and pull open the defense's coverage. In 2 WR sets Cribbs comes off the field and you go with jush Royal and Marshall. That is probably what we'll open a lot of possessions in anyhow, since McDaniels likes to run out of the two TE formation.

Not to mention if you need a third down conversion. You just put Cribbs at quarterback and he'll pick it up.

montrose
01-21-2010, 12:23 PM
More importantly... he is the ONLY guy on our offense that tuly worries a defensive coordinator.

Whoa, whoa, whoa:

http://espndeportes-assets.espn.go.com/2003/photos2009/0420/a_PeytonHillis_h.jpg

TheDave
01-21-2010, 12:28 PM
Whoa, whoa, whoa:

http://espndeportes-assets.espn.go.com/2003/photos2009/0420/a_PeytonHillis_h.jpg

yeah... I don't think he scares anyone from the bench.

watermock
01-21-2010, 01:12 PM
People forget that BM won the Dallas game,and Royal won the SD game.

I think, it was so long ago...

Rohirrim
01-21-2010, 01:12 PM
Thats because you don't know **** about football and obviously didn't pay a damn bit of attention to any real football talk that came out of dove valley during this past summer.

McDaniels needed a field stretcher for the X receiver. Marshall doesn't have field stretching speed. Gaffney doesn't have field stretching speed. Stokley doesn't even have it much anymore. Know who does? Eddie Royal.

So when you can have either Marshall or Gaffney playing the Y WR role (lot of intermediate routes, attacking around the hashes and on the sidelines with hooks and outs), and either Stokley or Royal playing the Z WR role (the traditional Welker role with a lot of crossing routes like slants), only Royal could play the X WR role as the deep threat.

Is it a problem that Orton can't make use of the X WR like Tom Brady can? Sure, but its also a problem that Orton can't read defenses like Peyton Manning or put a ball someone's palms from 40 yards away like Drew Brees. Its never ideal when you don't have an elite QB. We haven't had one since John Elway walked out the door though, so accept it.

I'm expecting us to pursue a real X WR this off-season letting Royal take over the Z WR role. If we move Marshall Gaffney will be the Y and we'll need to find a quality X. If we keep Marshall and Gaffney is the rotating 4th WR (he does know all the roles even if he isn't well suited to all of them athletically) then we can roll the dice on a field stretcher for the X.

I personally think Josh Cribbs would be a great choice for that role. He's very unhappy in Cleveland thanks to a grossly low extension offer, we could probably acquire him for a 3rd, at most a 2nd. He'd give us an elite returner so that Royal could focus on slot duties in the 3 WR sets while Cribbs is brought in to stretch the field and pull open the defense's coverage. In 2 WR sets Cribbs comes off the field and you go with jush Royal and Marshall. That is probably what we'll open a lot of possessions in anyhow, since McDaniels likes to run out of the two TE formation.

I sure do like your posts. It's football talk, without the soap opera. :thumbsup:

Atwater His Ass
01-21-2010, 03:26 PM
I beg to differ. He averages 12.3 YPC, 66 YPG, and 6 TDs per year in his career. Those are not playmaker stats.

And before you go all "2009 Denver Broncos ran a conservative offense" on me, note that those stats are weighted 75 percent by years with Cutler and Shanahan.

Way to add his rookie season of **** stats to bolster your argument.

Look at his last 3 seasons (which will be all anyone cares about, not his rookie season) and his averages are:

102 receptions, 1236 yards, 12.1 avg, and 7 TDs per year.

Compare to Fitzgeralds' last 3 seasons, since everyone has an e-hard on for him:

97 receptoins, 1310 yards, 13.1 avg, 11 TDs per year.

Yeah, they're not similiar at all.

rastaman
01-21-2010, 06:05 PM
People forget that BM won the Dallas game,and Royal won the SD game.

I think, it was so long ago...

And Stockley won the Cincy game! Thats 3 games that our WR's won. They were the difference btwn a 5-11 vs and 8-8 season.

rastaman
01-21-2010, 06:14 PM
Let me ask the Brandon Marshall apologists this question: Would you trade a 1st and a 3rd plus a $55M contract to have Wes Welker on your team?

That's basically what you'd be getting. At least Welker can return punts and is a "high character" guy.

Surely not your're not comparing Wes "Hobat-Dwarf" Welker to the Brandon "The Beast" Marshall! You can't be serious!:wiggle:

No.....wait----You Are. How pathetic.:sunshine:

bloodsunday
01-22-2010, 09:38 AM
Way to add his rookie season of **** stats to bolster your argument.

Look at his last 3 seasons (which will be all anyone cares about, not his rookie season) and his averages are:

102 receptions, 1236 yards, 12.1 avg, and 7 TDs per year.

Compare to Fitzgeralds' last 3 seasons, since everyone has an e-hard on for him:

97 receptoins, 1310 yards, 13.1 avg, 11 TDs per year.

Yeah, they're not similiar at all.

Notice how his YPC WENT DOWN and his TDS per year barely moved up without his rookie season? The bottom line is that his stats are result of volume and his comfort in the short to intermediate range and his lack of speed.

I find it laughable that you people keep brining up Larry Fitzgerald. Tell me which one of you wouldn't trade Marshall for Fitzgerald in a SECOND. If you tell me you wouldn't you are lying.

bendog
01-22-2010, 10:05 AM
wes welker at no 2. LOL

Rabb
01-22-2010, 10:06 AM
Notice how his YPC WENT DOWN and his TDS per year barely moved up without his rookie season? The bottom line is that his stats are result of volume and his comfort in the short to intermediate range and his lack of speed.

I find it laughable that you people keep brining up Larry Fitzgerald. Tell me which one of you wouldn't trade Marshall for Fitzgerald in a SECOND. If you tell me you wouldn't you are lying.

it is almost like comparing AD and CJ, either one is a fantastic option but they are both different in what they bring to the table (and no I am not saying BMarsh and Fitz are the AD and Johnson of NFL WR's, I am just making a comparison)

Marshall is best suited for our offense, a guy like Fitz might have his talent wasted here

montrose
01-22-2010, 08:19 PM
yeah... I don't think he scares anyone from the bench.

lol

~Crash~
01-22-2010, 08:36 PM
Let me ask the Brandon Marshall apologists this question: Would you trade a 1st and a 3rd plus a $55M contract to have Wes Welker on your team?

That's basically what you'd be getting. At least Welker can return punts and is a "high character" guy.

with two blew out knees hell no...

Gob
01-22-2010, 08:45 PM
Thats because you don't know **** about football and obviously didn't pay a damn bit of attention to any real football talk that came out of dove valley during this past summer.

McDaniels needed a field stretcher for the X receiver. Marshall doesn't have field stretching speed. Gaffney doesn't have field stretching speed. Stokley doesn't even have it much anymore. Know who does? Eddie Royal.

So when you can have either Marshall or Gaffney playing the Y WR role (lot of intermediate routes, attacking around the hashes and on the sidelines with hooks and outs), and either Stokley or Royal playing the Z WR role (the traditional Welker role with a lot of crossing routes like slants), only Royal could play the X WR role as the deep threat.

Is it a problem that Orton can't make use of the X WR like Tom Brady can? Sure, but its also a problem that Orton can't read defenses like Peyton Manning or put a ball someone's palms from 40 yards away like Drew Brees. Its never ideal when you don't have an elite QB. We haven't had one since John Elway walked out the door though, so accept it.

I'm expecting us to pursue a real X WR this off-season letting Royal take over the Z WR role. If we move Marshall Gaffney will be the Y and we'll need to find a quality X. If we keep Marshall and Gaffney is the rotating 4th WR (he does know all the roles even if he isn't well suited to all of them athletically) then we can roll the dice on a field stretcher for the X.

I personally think Josh Cribbs would be a great choice for that role. He's very unhappy in Cleveland thanks to a grossly low extension offer, we could probably acquire him for a 3rd, at most a 2nd. He'd give us an elite returner so that Royal could focus on slot duties in the 3 WR sets while Cribbs is brought in to stretch the field and pull open the defense's coverage. In 2 WR sets Cribbs comes off the field and you go with jush Royal and Marshall. That is probably what we'll open a lot of possessions in anyhow, since McDaniels likes to run out of the two TE formation.

Sincere question... wasn't NE's offense pretty pedestrian when the deep threat was anybody but Randy Moss? Since he has been on both the top 2 scoring offenses of all time, I am not all that confident we can find a similarly effective deep threat easily.

2KBack
01-22-2010, 08:48 PM
Sincere question... wasn't NE's offense pretty pedestrian when the deep threat was anybody but Randy Moss? Since he has been on both the top 2 scoring offenses of all time, I am not all that confident we can find a similarly effective deep threat easily.

it was statistically a top 10 offense for several seasons before Moss

WolfpackGuy
01-22-2010, 08:54 PM
Sincere question... wasn't NE's offense pretty pedestrian when the deep threat was anybody but Randy Moss? Since he has been on both the top 2 scoring offenses of all time, I am not all that confident we can find a similarly effective deep threat easily.

If they do find a deep threat, then all they have to do is find a QB who can get it to him.

Easy!

Moss would quit on the team after about the 3rd underthrown ball.

strafen
01-22-2010, 09:20 PM
Even though is a foregone conclusion Marshall will be gone, when and if he ever does, there will be another period of turmoil at Dove Valley and around the region.
To talk about it is one thing, to have this actually go down is another, if you know what I mean...
So, IMO the Broncos will try to stay away from another tumultuous event still.

They will try to handle the Marshall situation in a more clear and transparent manner to avoid putting themselves in a position to take the blame should things not work out favorably for either party, but it's my guess they will do their best to keep him...

bloodsunday
01-24-2010, 12:54 PM
Sincere question... wasn't NE's offense pretty pedestrian when the deep threat was anybody but Randy Moss? Since he has been on both the top 2 scoring offenses of all time, I am not all that confident we can find a similarly effective deep threat easily.

Yes, yes it was. But it was effective enough to win Super Bowls.

That's a very underrated point in this whole regime change. McDaniels came with a rep for offense because of the 2007 NE offense and what he did in one season with Matt Cassel. But in reality, NE success during McDaniels time there was mostly due to their defense.