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strafen
01-13-2010, 07:22 PM
Again, you're just so over the top psycho over this guy, you'll never listen to reason.

DevlineLegion's post summed it up perfectly. That's the long and the short of it.

But, you keep up the freak-out if you want. It's like watching a train-wreck. Not pleasant, but somehow entertaining.So if McDaniles draft another back in the 1st round in this year's draft...are you going to throw Moreno under the bus?
i'm willing to bet you will be...

Taco John
01-13-2010, 07:23 PM
DevlineLegion's post summed it up perfectly. That's the long and the short of it. .


Not really. DevineLegion said Hillis got his shot and failed. That never happened. Hillis was never given the ball enough times to really heat up and provide the spark that made you say he "deserved 15 carries a game."

If he had been, and then failed, then DevineLegion's post would have summed it up perfectly.

DenverBrit
01-13-2010, 07:26 PM
Not really. DevineLegion said Hillis got his shot and failed. That never happened. Hillis was never given the ball enough times to really heat up and provide the spark that made you say he "deserved 15 carries a game."

If he had been, and then failed, then DevineLegion's post would have summed it up perfectly.

Obviously Hillis is not showing up at practice, otherwise we'd be seeing him game-day and the Mane would have half as many threads.

Popps
01-13-2010, 07:29 PM
Not really. DevineLegion said Hillis got his shot and failed. That never happened. Hillis was never given the ball enough times to really heat up and provide the spark that made you say he "deserved 15 carries a game."

If he had been, and then failed, then DevineLegion's post would have summed it up perfectly.


Players usually aren't rewarded with more chances to carry the ball after fumbling and missing assignments in crucial situations. Particularly if there is any truth to the rumors that said player was already struggling with learning plays, the system, etc.

So, yes... his post summed it up perfectly. It's reality that you can accept, or not.

I was a big believer that he should see carries. I'm also a big believer that our staff put the two most capable backs on the field this season. I also believe that where there's enough smoke, there's probably fire.

Peyton's own words said that he had to rethink his priorities.


You're free to believe it's a big conspiracy, Taco. You're just in an extreme minority. That's all there is to it.

watermock
01-13-2010, 07:31 PM
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Popps
01-13-2010, 07:32 PM
So if McDaniles draft another back in the 1st round in this year's draft...are you going to throw Moreno under the bus?
i'm willing to bet you will be...

No one's been "thrown under the bus." Get a grip. Go have a good cry or something.

skpac1001
01-13-2010, 07:32 PM
I'm not sure what your argument is. Backups aren't necessarily "wastes of roster spots" as someone falsely suggested above. Every team needs them, and every team has them. If there's someone you would rather have as a backup than Jordan that's another argument I suppose.

Here is my argument. Most coaches nowadays look for more then just injury replacements in their backup running backs, they also look for special skills so the players can also contribute on gameday, 3rd down rb's, power runners, whatever. McDaniels former team is a good example of this approach. It would have been nice for Moreno and the team if the load was spread around more at running back, both in general (like most rookies who carry the majority of the load he starting looking flat towards the end of the year) and also specifically in situations that he may not be perfectly fit for. If the backup runningbacks (except Buck) were not worthy of taking situational snaps, and were not worthy to share the load when it would have helped Moreno, they were wasted roster spots since you could find backups that could contribute more on a regular basis in some way. Even if you don't buy that, you could find a backup that is strong on special teams and just as capable of being an injury replacement as Jordan.

DenverBrit
01-13-2010, 07:34 PM
And wouldn't you agree that was a nice pleasant surprise?
Do you point the finger at the coaching staff for having failed to use him earlier?
Come on, the guy went in there and took the bull by the horns, and he had done the same thing this year if given the same opportunity...

You really ought to post your coaching credentials, you've moved way beyond 'opinion' and are now expressing 'facts' that require inside information and NFL experience.

Seriously, what are your NFL qualifications? None??

watermock
01-13-2010, 07:45 PM
Players usually aren't rewarded with more chances to carry the ball after fumbling and missing assignments in crucial situations. Particularly if there is any truth to the rumors that said player was already struggling with learning plays, the system, etc.



So, yes... his post summed it up perfectly. It's reality that you can accept, or not.

I was a big believer that he should see carries. I'm also a big believer that our staff put the two most capable backs on the field this season. I also believe that where there's enough smoke, there's probably fire.

Peyton's own words said that he had to rethink his priorities.


You're free to believe it's a big conspiracy, Taco. You're just in an extreme minority. That's all there is to it.


No, he was pollitically correct under the Furhur.

He's not a minority, espcially after going 2-8 and missing the playoffs dumbass, and let me remind you, Marshall was suspended 3 times and still made the probowl.

So don't EVEN TELL ME Hillis wasn't on Beavis shiatlist.

What was a great offense and draft from 06 will be gone next year.

Meck77
01-13-2010, 07:49 PM
Wouldn't it be something if Hillis became a Redskin? We'd probably lose some more "fans". lol

watermock
01-13-2010, 07:50 PM
You really ought to post your coaching credentials, you've moved way beyond 'opinion' and are now expressing 'facts' that require inside information and NFL experience.

Seriously, what are your NFL qualifications? None??


I'm damn sick of this "you need coaching cred" to critique a team.

What is exactly "coaching cred"?

Lane Kiffin?

Taco John
01-13-2010, 07:51 PM
Players usually aren't rewarded with more chances to carry the ball after fumbling and missing assignments in crucial situations.


Moreno was.

watermock
01-13-2010, 07:55 PM
Wouldn't it be something if Hillis became a Redskin? We'd probably lose some more "fans". lol

I could care less other than the hipocracy.

DenverBrit
01-13-2010, 08:03 PM
I'm damn sick of this "you need coaching cred" to critique a team.

What is exactly "coaching cred"?

Lane Kiffin?

Wrong. He's not critiquing but stating 'facts'. Big difference.

Florida_Bronco
01-13-2010, 08:04 PM
Moreno was.

What assignments did Moreno miss?

watermock
01-13-2010, 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by DenverBrit
You really ought to post your coaching credentials, you've moved way beyond 'opinion' and are now expressing 'facts' that require inside information and NFL experience.



This is interesting.

Is "Denver Brit" an "inside source?" , or some teacher paid to teach soccer for girls?

It's funny.

I can cross refenece everything, just remember that.

watermock
01-13-2010, 08:18 PM
What assignments did Moreno miss?


Not that many, given that he only had to read the blocking.

Are you an idiot?


Did he have a lead blocker or were we in 3 wide.

C'mon dumnbass.

watermock
01-13-2010, 08:20 PM
What assignments did Moreno miss?

He didn't miss any.

He just was slow and stumbled his way along.

watermock
01-13-2010, 08:23 PM
Moreno didn't have any "assignments"

His deal was to "run to the hole or break out".


this is pretty simple.


Honestly, he sucked.

strafen
01-13-2010, 08:25 PM
You really ought to post your coaching credentials, you've moved way beyond 'opinion' and are now expressing 'facts' that require inside information and NFL experience.

Seriously, what are your NFL qualifications? None??Do I need coaching credentials to state the obvious?
Are you telling me you haven't seen the same thing everybody else has, but refuse to see?

strafen
01-13-2010, 08:26 PM
Moreno was.

:thumbs: :thumbsup: :rofl:

strafen
01-13-2010, 08:28 PM
What assignments did Moreno miss?WTF?!!!!!
This is ridiculous.
Where were you?
Did you watch any games by any chance?
Holy crap!!! ROFL!

Dagmar
01-13-2010, 08:45 PM
Sigh...

watermock
01-13-2010, 09:01 PM
What do you mean being as good as people say he is?
Have you been living under a rock?
How can you say something so stupid to imply Hillis never demonstrated legitimate skills to be a difference maker?
He's not playing Hillis because he had his guys to play in front of him, just like the guys he's brough to play in front of Royal, Stokley, and Scheffler.
Moreno was his guy. He had to play Moreno because the criticism he recieved for that pick.
It was a controversial pick.
McDaniels wanted to prove he was right in spending the 12th overall pick on a college back that only had 2 years under his belt of college football.
That was a dumb move, and McDaniels wanted to prove otherwise...

As were other picks.

Popps
01-13-2010, 09:09 PM
Not that many, given that he only had to read the blocking.

Are you an idiot?


Did he have a lead blocker or were we in 3 wide.

C'mon dumnbass.

http://www.lostwackys.com/images/original-series/1st/kook-aid.jpg

Florida_Bronco
01-13-2010, 09:09 PM
WTF?!!!!!
This is ridiculous.
Where were you?
Did you watch any games by any chance?
Holy crap!!! ROFL!

So where are they? I mean if they were so boundless, surely you can provide a few examples right?

watermock
01-13-2010, 09:14 PM
Marshall, Scheffler, Hillis, Royal...

Give me stats on these week 17 players.

DivineLegion
01-13-2010, 09:16 PM
Not really. DevineLegion said Hillis got his shot and failed. That never happened. Hillis was never given the ball enough times to really heat up and provide the spark that made you say he "deserved 15 carries a game."

If he had been, and then failed, then DevineLegion's post would have summed it up perfectly.

Dude he got his chances on the field in small amounts and those were probably due to good preperation in practice where McDaniels thought he deserved a shot on the filed. The thing that killed him was his on the field performance, I cant tell you how many times he missed key blocks. When you get your shots in only a few snaps you have to make the most of every opportunity awarded to you and he Failed plain and simple. He's a second year guy that made a lot of rookie mistakes. He will be around next year, and he will get his shots next year.

Getting a shot on the field starts in training camp, then then only way for a player to fight for a chance on the field is in practice. I don't think any of us have a good idea of what goes on during practice.

DenverBrit
01-13-2010, 09:22 PM
Do I need coaching credentials to state the obvious?
Are you telling me you haven't seen the same thing everybody else has, but refuse to see?

Explain how you have arrived at the conclusion that if Hillis were playing, he'd be duplicating last years performance.

If you're correct, why isn't Hillis playing??

Dagmar
01-13-2010, 09:39 PM
Marshall, Scheffler, Hillis, Royal...

Give me stats on these week 17 players.

Marshall - injured, refused to play despite an MRI seeing nothing.
Royal - Neck injury.
Scheffler - Inactive due to dissent (as wished for by Team captains)
Hillis - Similar to the rest of his season.

I am sure you had a point you racist idiot.

strafen
01-13-2010, 10:11 PM
Explain how you have arrived at the conclusion that if Hillis were playing, he'd be duplicating last years performance.

If you're correct, why isn't Hillis playing??He wasn't injured, was he?
I think I've already explained over and over why he didn't play.

The only time he saw some significant playing time was against the Chiefs.
If you saw that game, then I don't need to explain anything to you.
Don't play dumb with me. Why do I need to explain to you the things you already know the answer to?
You saw Hillis dragging defenders on his back at Arrowhead Stadium. Very reminiscent of what he did in 2008.
Hillis was not given a real chance to do more this year.
You can't deny that.
You give the guy 15-20 touches a game, and you'll see a good production out of him.
He never got that chance this past season...

watermock
01-13-2010, 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by watermock
Marshall, Scheffler, Hillis, Royal...

Give me stats on these week 17 players.

Marshall - injured, refused to play despite an MRI seeing nothing.
Royal - Neck injury.
Scheffler - Inactive due to dissent (as wished for by Team captains)
Hillis - Similar to the rest of his season.

I am sure you had a point you racist idiot.

wow
You buy that?

Dagmar
01-13-2010, 10:40 PM
wow
You buy that?

Yes, but I don't have dalliances with peanut butter and my brain is intact, so that's where we differ you racist. :welcome:

watermock
01-13-2010, 11:12 PM
Your're baiting.

Clean out your mouth.

Blueflame
01-14-2010, 12:13 AM
Really, I don't get this take at all. Are all the backups a waste of a roster spot then? Let's trim the rosters down to 30 since you only need the starters and a few role players ::)

A player who is deactivated week after week after week is a waste of a roster slot. IMHO.

On top of that, Jordan came cheap, did what we asked of him and was a needed veteran presence, so what exactly are you complaining about?

Oh, wait, he was a Patriot for a brief time. ::)
He also used to be a Raider. ::)

Me too, but that remains to be seen.

It will most likely be seen... I can't imagine any scenario in which the rifts can successfully be bridged.

There are plenty of other talented receivers out there who could take Marshall's spot. Honestly I'd prefer he just grow the **** up and act like a professional but that seems unlikely at this point.

Who? Name one WR (of Marshall's caliber) that we can realistically get to replace him.

A move that may very well be praised down the road.

And certainly hasn't been to date... it was not a typical (veteran) HC move and never will be.

Blueflame
01-14-2010, 12:16 AM
Apparently she doesn't understand that teams need depth. She must remember all the RB injuries the team had last year, right? If Moreno and Buckhalter were both hurt clearly Jordan would have been asked to contribute more. Not that difficult.

Jordan didn't play a lot because there were better options in front of him. That's how it works. Simple. At least for some people.

I understand that no other team in the NFL was interested enough in Jordan to sign him.

watermock
01-14-2010, 01:01 AM
Season over Blue....

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/t_brady_fumble_IA.jpg

Blueflame
01-14-2010, 01:19 AM
Season over Blue....

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/t_brady_fumble_IA.jpg

Poor Tommy... I tried really hard to feel sorry for the Pats as they had their butts handed to them on a platter by the Ravens last weekend. In the end, I just snickered though. Weird how they're suddenly beatable once the league made 'em give up their tapes...

Popps
01-14-2010, 01:31 AM
He also used to be a Raider. ::)
.

So did Mike Shanahan.

Blueflame
01-14-2010, 01:44 AM
So did Mike Shanahan.

For less time than LaMont Jordan was... :pfbbt:

DenverBrit
01-14-2010, 10:16 AM
He wasn't injured, was he?
I think I've already explained over and over why he didn't play.

The only time he saw some significant playing time was against the Chiefs.
If you saw that game, then I don't need to explain anything to you.
Don't play dumb with me. Why do I need to explain to you the things you already know the answer to?
You saw Hillis dragging defenders on his back at Arrowhead Stadium. Very reminiscent of what he did in 2008.
Hillis was not given a real chance to do more this year.
You can't deny that.
You give the guy 15-20 touches a game, and you'll see a good production out of him.
He never got that chance this past season...

Ok, I disagree with your 'conclusions'.... you present your opinion as 'facts' but don't validate them with a source.

So you must see something the coaching staff doesn't. Do you??

But again:

If you're correct, why isn't Hillis playing??

Popps
01-14-2010, 10:25 AM
But again:

If you're correct, why isn't Hillis playing??

http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/red-sky-ufo.jpg

BroncoBuff
01-14-2010, 12:03 PM
Yes, but I don't have dalliances with peanut butter and my brain is intact, so that's where we differ you racist. :welcome:

Wow, I thought we couldn't make fun of health issues ... so I can go after crazyhorse then, right?

Dagmar
01-14-2010, 12:18 PM
Wow, I thought we couldn't make fun of health issues ... so I can go after crazyhorse then, right?

How many trolling thread does crazyhorse start? How many racist / xenophobic, THREATENING PM's/reps does crazyhorse send you?

BroncoBuff
01-14-2010, 12:21 PM
How many trolling thread does crazyhorse start? How many racist / xenophobic, THREATENING PM's/reps does crazyhorse send you?

That stuff is wrong too.

But get real, if you don't like his threads, don't open them. If he angers and frustrates you so much, maybe you should avoid him. Disagreeing with somebody doesn't mean it's okay to make fun of their health issues.

Dagmar
01-14-2010, 12:25 PM
That stuff is wrong too.

But get real, if you don't like his threads, don't open them. If he angers and frustrates you so much, maybe you should avoid him. Disagreeing with somebody doesn't mean it's okay to make fun of their health issues.

Riiiiight. If someone threatens me via PM, makes racist comments about others and make xenophibic comments about me and my wife since we live here in Boulder, in America and are not American I hope he mainlines the Jif.

Taco John
01-14-2010, 12:26 PM
How many trolling thread does crazyhorse start? How many racist / xenophobic, THREATENING PM's/reps does crazyhorse send you?

You feel threatened by someone who is crippled? You must, because you throw his physical ailment in his face at every opportunity that you can.

Mock can handle it, and knows that he's made his own bed on this forum in many ways. But MAN you make yourself look like a piece of crap when you make fun of a crippled man for being crippled. It's easily one of the lowest and most degrading things I've seen someone on the Internet do to themselves.

Dagmar
01-14-2010, 12:36 PM
You feel threatened by someone who is crippled? You must, because you throw his physical ailment in his face at every opportunity that you can.

Mock can handle it, and knows that he's made his own bed on this forum in many ways. But MAN you make yourself look like a piece of crap when you make fun of a crippled man for being crippled. It's easily one of the lowest and most degrading things I've seen someone on the Internet do to themselves.

I make fun of a guy who is racist, who threatens me and makes degrading comments about my nationality. I am making fun of him for being ignorant. The PB thing is me stooping to his level, it's not actually me making fun of him for being a cripple although I know it comes off that way. I don't care what physical position someone is in, I get angry when someone says those things to me. I know your opinion of me Taco and I am sorry you feel that way but as an immigrant and my wife I get sensitive to slurs being thrown my way.

Taco John
01-14-2010, 12:37 PM
However you want to rationalize it, you make fun of a man for being crippled.

Dagmar
01-14-2010, 12:41 PM
However you want to rationalize it, you make fun of a man for being crippled.

I notice you, owner of this site tearing me a new one more than once but never criticising him for his racism or threats. Again, I get how you, Buff, Blue and several others feel about me, no need to keep reiterating it. Jeez.

Taco John
01-14-2010, 12:45 PM
I notice you, owner of this site tearing me a new one more than once but never criticising him for his racism or threats. Again, I get how you, Buff, Blue and several others feel about me, no need to keep reiterating it. Jeez.


I haven't seen anything from Mock that constitutes racism or threats. If they exist, they don't get reported.

Mostly I see you following him around and making fun of him for being crippled.

I'm not sure what high ground you think you own here, but I don't see it. You might think of putting him on ignore and picking yourself up out of the mud.

DenverBrit
01-14-2010, 12:58 PM
http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/red-sky-ufo.jpg


Hole in one!!

Dagmar
01-14-2010, 01:45 PM
I haven't seen anything from Mock that constitutes racism or threats. If they exist, they don't get reported.

Mostly I see you following him around and making fun of him for being crippled.

I'm not sure what high ground you think you own here, but I don't see it. You might think of putting him on ignore and picking yourself up out of the mud.

I take my fight to the one who threatens me and insults me for my nationality, I don't report him. Buff doesn't fight my battles for ME.

And most of the time I am makig fun of him for being retarded or an idiot, not crippled. And he was like that before the "incident" so don't start boss!

2KBack
01-14-2010, 01:57 PM
this is really interrupting my Hillis reading

Gob
01-14-2010, 02:00 PM
Ok, I disagree with your 'conclusions'.... you present your opinion as 'facts' but don't validate them with a source.

So you must see something the coaching staff doesn't. Do you??

But again:

If you're correct, why isn't Hillis playing??

Good question. I think its the question everyone is asking, and the simple answers aren't quite cutting it.
It can't be only McDaniels, since Hillis has been struggling for RB time since college.
It can't be that Hillis doesn't offer anything special, because he was given (and kept) a roster spot that could be given to better blockers, special team players, or backs who could have helped out sharing the carries.
Maybe he has a spot because McDaniel's sees his potential and thinks he is special but somewhere between the two of them have had problems carving out his role.

Dagmar
01-14-2010, 02:23 PM
I'm officially bored of Rusty, can I have Dagmar back. Rusty is evil.

BroncoBuff
01-14-2010, 02:35 PM
i haven't seen anything from mock that constitutes racism or threats. If they exist, they don't get reported.

Mostly i see you following him around and making fun of him for being crippled.

I'm not sure what high ground you think you own here, but i don't see it. You might think of putting him on ignore and picking yourself up out of the mud.

+1

Dagmar
01-14-2010, 02:47 PM
+1

*Slow claps*

I'm glad that you tolerate the slurs on me and
wife and PM threats. Superstar moral compass there lawyer boy.

Dagmar
01-14-2010, 02:56 PM
Oh. My. God. You actually did it!

Peeeez?

errand
02-09-2010, 06:47 PM
The losing to Oakland and KC at home while a 5 tool player who proved himself a game changer was left in the dog house is the part that I find upsetting.

Not to mention losing eight of ten games.

giving up so many points down the stretch tells me it's not Orton, or Hillis or Moreno that was the problem...but a defense that wasn't as good in the 2nd half as it was in the first.

Taco John
02-09-2010, 06:52 PM
Yeah, I learned this last week that we probably should have made some "adjustments."

watermock
02-09-2010, 06:56 PM
It can't be only McDaniels, since Hillis has been struggling for RB time since college.


That's amusing.

Hillis was brought in as a TB and when Nutt got Mcfadden and Felix, he dumped him to FB.

Hillis put on 20 and became a force on short yardage and recieving. BTW, he was a force in beating LSU, the only team to beat them in 05 via the Hog Wild with McFadden at QB.

Buy a clue.

Flex Gunmetal
02-09-2010, 07:11 PM
Do you conclude every post you make with 'buy a clue'? Its cute to have a catchphrase.

watermock
02-09-2010, 07:21 PM
What's yours?

Flex Gunmetal?

WTF is that?

watermock
02-09-2010, 07:22 PM
At least you get the avatar right.

Dagmar
02-09-2010, 07:23 PM
At least you get the avatar right.

Unlike yourself.

watermock
02-09-2010, 07:32 PM
2-8 says otherwise.

Flex Gunmetal
02-09-2010, 07:35 PM
What's yours?

Flex Gunmetal?

WTF is that?

Its actually a name, you witless moron. You've asked the origin of my name and I've told you, but obviously you lack short term memory along with a grasp on common sense.

Buy an education, you need one badly.

watermock
02-09-2010, 07:52 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=5178&dateline=1245452785.

sixtimeseight
02-09-2010, 07:53 PM
Careful, insult the forum pet too much and you're going to get banned.

Dagmar
02-09-2010, 07:58 PM
Careful, insult the forum pet too much and you're going to get banned.

Nah, they just gang up on you.

Flex Gunmetal
02-09-2010, 07:59 PM
Careful, insult the forum pet too much and you're going to get banned.

I can't imagine mock is as stupid in person as he is online. If he is, might be time to 2nd guess that whole darwinism thing.

Dagmar
02-09-2010, 07:59 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=5178&dateline=1245452785.

That's his avatar, well done.

Dagmar
02-09-2010, 08:00 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=242&dateline=1232065692



http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x297/InvisiblexSeas/Kel.gif

sixtimeseight
02-09-2010, 08:55 PM
I can't imagine mock is as stupid in person as he is online. If he is, might be time to 2nd guess that whole darwinism thing.

I'm guessing he's even stupider. At least online he can somewhat filter what he says, I'm nearly certain that in real life he has no control of his mouth and I doubt anyone can stand to be around him.

Meck77
02-09-2010, 10:36 PM
Move over Little. Hillis 2025 HOF!

HAT
02-09-2010, 11:10 PM
Buy an education, you need one badly.

Didn't you hear? The Mockster was edumacated at Perdue.

Mods...Please don't ban me for spelling smack. :pimp:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-10-2010, 07:31 AM
Didn't you hear? The Mockster was edumacated at Perdue.

Mods...Please don't ban me for spelling smack. :pimp:

The Perdue Choo Choo Trains? Neat!

Blueflame
02-10-2010, 11:50 AM
Didn't you hear? The Mockster was edumacated at Perdue.

Mods...Please don't ban me for spelling smack. :pimp:

Actually it just might be spelled correctly if you were going for the French word for "forgotten"....

HAT
02-10-2010, 12:07 PM
Yeah, but Mock is kind of unforgettable.

In an :olddude::griese::alghh: sort of way.

HEAV
02-10-2010, 12:28 PM
Actually it just might be spelled correctly if you were going for the French word for "forgotten"....

Or if you like chicken...

http://www.perdue.com/


Careful, insult the forum pet too much and you're going to get banned.

I've always thought it was sad how the site owner & mods protected Mock (even from himself) his act got old in 2003 and now he's more a cartton of his old self.

Kaylore
02-10-2010, 12:38 PM
Peyton Hillis. Never has so much hype been made about a seventh round pick that was only played after we we lost six running back to injury. He'd played two decent games (nothing amazing) and got hurt and now everyone thinks he's the next Jerome Bettis. Low and behold he finds himself again buried on the depth chart with McD and suddenly it's a conspiracy.

This is worse than Wesley Duke.

HEAV
02-10-2010, 12:47 PM
Peyton Hillis. Never has so much hype been made about a seventh round pick that was only played after we we lost six running back to injury. He'd played two decent games (nothing amazing) and got hurt and now everyone thinks he's the next Jerome Bettis. Low and behold he finds himself again buried on the depth chart with McD and suddenly it's a conspiracy.

This is worse than Wesley Duke.


But Bro....Duke was the next Antonio Gates! :~ohyah!:

sixtimeseight
02-10-2010, 01:10 PM
I've always thought it was sad how the site owner & mods protected Mock (even from himself) his act got old in 2003 and now he's more a cartton of his old self.

Seriously. I got "infraction points" (whatever the **** those are) from Blueflame because I mentioned peanut butter. It's like I'm in kindergarten and teacher called my mommy because I picked on the fat kid.

Requiem
02-10-2010, 03:49 PM
Wesley Duke, Demetrin Veal, that one other defensive lineman we signed that was supposedly going to be awesome. Corey Jackson, I believe? Hillis is just another one of those dudes.

Killericon
02-10-2010, 04:22 PM
Wesley Duke, Demetrin Veal, that one other defensive lineman we signed that was supposedly going to be awesome. Corey Jackson, I believe? Hillis is just another one of those dudes.

Hixon, Q, Hillis...The list goes on and on.

Taco John
02-10-2010, 04:25 PM
I think Hillis is better than any of those dudes and has proven it. Frankly, I think Jerome Bettis is a great comparison. I think we could get that kind of production out of Hillis. I'm little afraid to admit it. I won't be browbeaten into ignoring and just forgetting what we all saw with our own eyes.

There's not many people that this search database won't reveal to have believed the same thing at one point in time.

Archer81
02-10-2010, 04:33 PM
I think Hillis is better than any of those dudes and has proven it. Frankly, I think Jerome Bettis is a great comparison. I think we could get that kind of production out of Hillis. I'm little afraid to admit it. I won't be browbeaten into ignoring and just forgetting what we all saw with our own eyes.

There's not many people that this search database won't reveal to have believed the same thing at one point in time.


I believe Hillis is capable. Last season gave us flashes of what he can do as the primary runningback...however, something is clearly holding him back. If he is backing up at FB and RB for 2 HC's, and only gets to play in garbage time or when everyone else is hurt, that tells us something is up with the player.

:Broncos:

Taco John
02-10-2010, 04:46 PM
I believe Hillis is capable. Last season gave us flashes of what he can do as the primary runningback...however, something is clearly holding him back. If he is backing up at FB and RB for 2 HC's, and only gets to play in garbage time or when everyone else is hurt, that tells us something is up with the player.

:Broncos:



RE: Bolded:

I agree and it's my opinion that the lack of opportunity is the primary thing holding him back. Don't bother telling me that sat on the bench for two coaches garbage. I saw what he did when he was on the field. Whatever reason he was on the bench was not a good enough reason, especially when your team is fading 2-8 down the stretch.

If Josh is any kind of coach, he should be able to "coach 'em up" and get out of Hillis what we all know he's capable of.

Lev Vyvanse
02-10-2010, 05:01 PM
RE: Bolded:

I agree and it's my opinion that the lack of opportunity is the primary thing holding him back. Don't bother telling me that sat on the bench for two coaches garbage. I saw what he did when he was on the field. Whatever reason he was on the bench was not a good enough reason, especially when your team is fading 2-8 down the stretch.

If Josh is any kind of coach, he should be able to "coach 'em up" and get out of Hillis what we all know he's capable of.

Three if you count college.

strafen
02-10-2010, 05:27 PM
Three if you count college.

Tell me what has that proven?
I think those issues you guys keep beinging up are irrelevant.
It's got more to do to cover for McDaniles and not wanting to question his decision to not play Hillis.
Scheffler is in the same boat. Are you telling me that both Scheffler and Hillis all of the sudden were not playing last year because of thier performance?
That's a joke!
Scheffler in limited action this year still managed to finish 3rd on the team oin both catches and yards.
Scheffler was a crucial part of our offense last year in the same way Hillis was.
To not have those two guys get more balls their way, reflected our offensive decline and possibly lost games.

Every single person here who has thrown Scheffler and Hillis under the bus is a McDaniels supporter. They refuse to put any blame on McDaniels at all cost.

Hillis did not get a fair chance to compete and never got any significant playing time for anybody here to say he wasn't cutting it, yet, Moreno got all the playing time in the world to prove his worth, and he failed miserably.
McDaniels is responsible for putting Moreno and Hillis is a position where both would fail.

strafen
02-10-2010, 05:28 PM
I believe Hillis is capable. Last season gave us flashes of what he can do as the primary runningback...however, something is clearly holding him back. If he is backing up at FB and RB for 2 HC's, and only gets to play in garbage time or when everyone else is hurt, that tells us something is up with the player.

:Broncos:The only thing clearly holding Hillis back is McDaniels, no matter how you slice it...

errand
02-10-2010, 05:33 PM
No I didn't. I thought of Griese the same thing that I think of Orton: a servicable guy who needs better protection. Read anything Popps writes about Orton. That's the same stuff I was saying about Griese, nearly word for word.

Orton and Griese are practically the same quarterback. Orton had a much better line this year than Griese probably ever had though.

Oh bull****! Your exact words were "I think...no wait, I know...when given protection Brian Griese is the NFL's most efficient QB, - BAR NONE"

Killericon
02-10-2010, 05:43 PM
I think Hillis is better than any of those dudes and has proven it. Frankly, I think Jerome Bettis is a great comparison. I think we could get that kind of production out of Hillis. I'm little afraid to admit it. I won't be browbeaten into ignoring and just forgetting what we all saw with our own eyes.

There's not many people that this search database won't reveal to have believed the same thing at one point in time.

I think he's more talented than any of those players, but until he produces again, he's in the exact same category.

2KBack
02-10-2010, 05:46 PM
Did I just see that Taco John said that our Oline last year was better than the Oline that Griese started with? The Superbowl winning Oline?

Taco John
02-10-2010, 06:10 PM
Did I just see that Taco John said that our Oline last year was better than the Oline that Griese started with? The Superbowl winning Oline?

You're confused. We lost a lot of offensive line power due to retirement. We lost Zimmerman to retirement, Habib to the Seahawks, and Schlereth to ESPN.

At one point in time, we had a back up center (George Teague) who was promoted to starting left tackle.

2KBack
02-10-2010, 06:15 PM
You're confused. We lost a lot of offensive line power due to retirement. We lost Zimmerman to retirement, Habib to the Seahawks, and Schlereth to ESPN.

At one point in time, we had a back up center (George Teague) who was promoted to starting left tackle.

In 1999 the entire left side and Center were manned by probowl players. In 2000 Denver had the second highest scoring offense in team history on the back of a rookie running back, Brian Griese and Gus Ferrotte. You are waaaaay underrating the line Griese had and overrating our current line. I was a Griese supporter, but his struggles did not stem from the offensive line.

Taco John
02-10-2010, 06:16 PM
Oh bull****! Your exact words were "I think...no wait, I know...when given protection Brian Griese is the NFL's most efficient QB, - BAR NONE"

And it was true. He went to the Pro Bowl on that reputation, and earned a hell of a paycheck from the Broncos for it. I won't run from that statement at all.

Give the guy protection, and he proved he could produce. Take it away, and he proved that was nothing but a servicable guy who needs better protection. Orton and Griese are practically the same quarterback. And yes... Orton had a much better line this year than Griese probably ever had though.

Dagmar
02-10-2010, 07:09 PM
This thread will be alive as long as Al Davis I think. Maybe we should trade Hillis to the Raiders. The meltdown would almost be worth it.

Archer81
02-10-2010, 07:32 PM
The only thing clearly holding Hillis back is McDaniels, no matter how you slice it...


Huh. So he was a starter without 6 other backs going onto IR in 2008? Or was McDaniels holding him back by osmosis?


:Broncos:

strafen
02-10-2010, 08:03 PM
Huh. So he was a starter without 6 other backs going onto IR in 2008? Or was McDaniels holding him back by osmosis?


:Broncos: Until you start acknowledging the facts as they took place, this debate will never end, much less be understood.
The fact is that in 2008 Shanahan had his RB's in place. He had favored Selvin Young as his guy for the season. Behind Young he had Michael Pittman, and Andre Hall.
Peyton Hillis was the FB, and later became the RB by default. He played 12 games in 2008 and started in 6 of those 12 games he played. So, it wasn't as if he was riding the bench until the injuries started to occur like you are implying. The guy saw action in 12 games, started in six, especially for a rookie

So, playing in 12 games and starting in six, is not my definition of being held back...

Archer81
02-10-2010, 08:18 PM
Until you start acknowledging the facts as they took place, this debate will never end, much less be understood.
The fact is that in 2008 Shanahan had his RB's in place. He had favored Selvin Young as his guy for the season. Behind Young he had Michael Pittman, and Andre Hall.
Peyton Hillis was the FB, and later became the RB by default. He played 12 games in 2008 and started in 6 of those 12 games he played. So, it wasn't as if he was riding the bench until the injuries started to occur like you are implying. The guy saw action in 12 games, started in six.

So, playing in 12 games and starting in six, is not my definition of being held back...


In 2009, he started 2 games, played in 14.

In both 2008 and 2009, he was beat out by a converted LB for a starting job. In both seasons, he only saw extended time when SOMEONE ELSE went down. Both Shanahan and McDaniels have commented on Hillis' physical ability. Pretending Hillis was an established starter when McDaniels got here and was treated unfairly by the new coaching staff is dishonest. (Same RB coach both years...I guess Turner was in on it with McDaniels and Shanahan?) But considering how you are in regards to McDaniels, not surprising you would paint this particular scenario in this way.


:Broncos:

Dagmar
02-10-2010, 08:24 PM
In 2009, he started 2 games, played in 14.

In both 2008 and 2009, he was beat out by a converted LB for a starting job. In both seasons, he only saw extended time when SOMEONE ELSE went down. Both Shanahan and McDaniels have commented on Hillis' physical ability. Pretending Hillis was an established starter when McDaniels got here and was treated unfairly by the new coaching staff is dishonest. (Same RB coach both years...I guess Turner was in on it with McDaniels and Shanahan?) But considering how you are in regards to McDaniels, not surprising you would paint this particular scenario in this way.


:Broncos:

:notworthy

strafen
02-10-2010, 08:41 PM
In 2009, he started 2 games, played in 14.

In both 2008 and 2009, he was beat out by a converted LB for a starting job. In both seasons, he only saw extended time when SOMEONE ELSE went down. Both Shanahan and McDaniels have commented on Hillis' physical ability. Pretending Hillis was an established starter when McDaniels got here and was treated unfairly by the new coaching staff is dishonest. (Same RB coach both years...I guess Turner was in on it with McDaniels and Shanahan?) But considering how you are in regards to McDaniels, not surprising you would paint this particular scenario in this way.


:Broncos:You need to stop passing your BS as fact
First of all, nobody is saying he was an established starter.
Second, Hillis played in 10 games and not 14. Third, he only carried the ball 13 times in those 10 games
Get your facts straight. Larsen did NOT beat Hillis out in 2008. You know damn well that was not the case at all. Larsen became a FB by default. When everybody from our running back roster went down, Hillis became the primary ball carrier. We did not have a FB. Larsen was converted into a FB.
I hope that clears your false statement right there.

Larsen was chosen by McDaniles to play FB over Hillis. A coaching decision. I don't think he beat out Hillis on a head-to-head competition for the job.
I can't and neither can you recall a game where Larsen stood out. That right there merits no further argument.

As far as Turner's input goes, I guess leaving the team for another should tell you what kind of unput he had that McDaniels was willing to listen to, huh?

And don't tell me that a guy like Turner after seeing Moreno flop game in game out that he was against throwing Hillis in there. If there was somebody who knew Hillis abilities was Turner.
Shanahan never underestimated Hillis in public, unless I missed something and you have a link to prove otherwise...

Dagmar
02-10-2010, 08:46 PM
You need to stop passing your BS as fact


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Archer81
02-10-2010, 09:04 PM
You need to stop passing your BS as fact
First of all, nobody is saying he was an established starter.
Second, Hillis played in 10 games and not 14. Third, he only carried the ball 13 times in those 10 games
Get your facts straight. Larsen did NOT beat Hillis out in 2008. You know damn well that was not the case at all. Larsen became a FB by default. When everybody from our running back roster went down, Hillis became the primary ball carrier. We did not have a FB. Larsen was converted into a FB.
I hope that clears your false statement right there.

Larsen was chosen by McDaniles to play FB over Hillis. A coaching decision. I don't think he beat out Hillis on a head-to-head competition for the job.
I can't and neither can you recall a game where Larsen stood out. That right there merits no further argument.

As far as Turner's input goes, I guess leaving the team for another should tell you what kind of unput he had that McDaniels was willing to listen to from him, huh?

And don't tell me that a guy like Turner after seeing Moreno flop game in game out that he was against throwing Hillis in there. If there was somebody who knew Hillis abilities was Turner.
Shanahan never underestimated Hillis in public, unless I missed something and you have a link to prove otherwise...

NFL.com has him playing in 14 games.
http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonhillis/profile?id=HIL734134

Larsen was drafted at ILB. He was asked in the preseason to split time and become a FB. He WON the starting job. Sapp was waived to make room for Larsen and Hillis at FB. Hillis did not start until week 3 at FB.
http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonhillis/gamelogs?id=HIL734134&season=2008

Turner stayed in Denver and was asked by McDaniels to stay after 2008. It was obvious after Shanahan was fired that where ever he would turn up, Turner would follow. It was wise of McDaniels to keep Turner and Dennison to help ease from Shanahan's offense to McDaniels. You would also think that Turner, who has seen TD, Gary, Anderson, Portis, Droughns, and Bell cracking 1000 yards he could coach up any back. He also got production from Hall, Griffin, Henry, Mike Bell and Selvin Young. So I would tend to believe the HC would listen to a RB coach who has that record of success. Yet in two straight seasons, Hillis was not able to get more starting time without someone else getting hurt.

I also said Shanahan and McDaniels has praised Hillis physical abilities. So clearly something is up with the player if he in unable to get on the field for more than spot duty and special teams work.

You are under the impression I believe Hillis is a horrible player. Its quite the opposite. I think he is talented, and would help the Broncos immensely. Its not McDaniels holding Peyton back, its Peyton himself.

:Broncos:

strafen
02-10-2010, 09:27 PM
NFL.com has him playing in 14 games.
http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonhillis/profile?id=HIL734134

Larsen was drafted at ILB. He was asked in the preseason to split time and become a FB. He WON the starting job. Sapp was waived to make room for Larsen and Hillis at FB. Hillis did not start until week 3 at FB.
http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonhillis/gamelogs?id=HIL734134&season=2008

Turner stayed in Denver and was asked by McDaniels to stay after 2008. It was obvious after Shanahan was fired that where ever he would turn up, Turner would follow. It was wise of McDaniels to keep Turner and Dennison to help ease from Shanahan's offense to McDaniels. You would also think that Turner, who has seen TD, Gary, Anderson, Portis, Droughns, and Bell cracking 1000 yards he could coach up any back. He also got production from Hall, Griffin, Henry, Mike Bell and Selvin Young. So I would tend to believe the HC would listen to a RB coach who has that record of success. Yet in two straight seasons, Hillis was not able to get more starting time without someone else getting hurt.

I also said Shanahan and McDaniels has praised Hillis physical abilities. So clearly something is up with the player if he in unable to get on the field for more than spot duty and special teams work.

You are under the impression I believe Hillis is a horrible player. Its quite the opposite. I think he is talented, and would help the Broncos immensely. Its not McDaniels holding Peyton back, its Peyton himself.

:Broncos:

Your comments about Larsen beating out Hillis sounds condescendant to me.
In any event, Larsen has better blocking skills than Hillis. I can concede that. That's where his abilities over Hillis' end.
Larsen has not had a carry that I could find in two years as a pro.
Hillis is more about his abilities as a runner. I still think he has decent blocking abilities.
Moreno was the guy McD wanted to run the ball. McD knew that Hillis if given ample opportunities to run the ball in the ballpark of 10-15 carries that he would outshine Moreno. That was no-brainer.
To me that's a more realistic reason why he did not get to play as much as he should have.
LaMont Jordan getting more carries over Hillis?
Come on?
That was flat out retarded and reason enough to back up my belief that McD knowingly held Hillis back.
I can guarantee you it got nothing to do with Hillis not performing on the field. 13 carries in a whole season doesn't constitute a fair share of chances to prove his worth...

DenverBrit
02-10-2010, 09:59 PM
NFL.com has him playing in 14 games.
http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonhillis/profile?id=HIL734134

Larsen was drafted at ILB. He was asked in the preseason to split time and become a FB. He WON the starting job. Sapp was waived to make room for Larsen and Hillis at FB. Hillis did not start until week 3 at FB.
http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonhillis/gamelogs?id=HIL734134&season=2008

Turner stayed in Denver and was asked by McDaniels to stay after 2008. It was obvious after Shanahan was fired that where ever he would turn up, Turner would follow. It was wise of McDaniels to keep Turner and Dennison to help ease from Shanahan's offense to McDaniels. You would also think that Turner, who has seen TD, Gary, Anderson, Portis, Droughns, and Bell cracking 1000 yards he could coach up any back. He also got production from Hall, Griffin, Henry, Mike Bell and Selvin Young. So I would tend to believe the HC would listen to a RB coach who has that record of success. Yet in two straight seasons, Hillis was not able to get more starting time without someone else getting hurt.

I also said Shanahan and McDaniels has praised Hillis physical abilities. So clearly something is up with the player if he in unable to get on the field for more than spot duty and special teams work.

You are under the impression I believe Hillis is a horrible player. Its quite the opposite. I think he is talented, and would help the Broncos immensely. Its not McDaniels holding Peyton back, its Peyton himself.

:Broncos:

It won't matter how many times you explain, it will always be:

"McPoopyPants held him back, there can be no other explanation."

sixtimeseight
02-10-2010, 10:13 PM
<table id="post2747817" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr title="Post 2747817"><td class="thead" style="font-weight: normal;">http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/statusicon/post_new.gif 02-10-2010, 09:27 PM </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2"> Remove user from ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?userlist=ignore&do=removelist&u=10462)
dragster69 (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/member.php?u=10462) </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1"> This message is hidden because dragster69 is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).
</td></tr></tbody></table>

Let me tell you how much better it is to see this than his idiotic ramblings. Seriously, the guy is borderline retarded, ignore him an he'll go away.

Blueflame
02-10-2010, 10:15 PM
Seriously. I got "infraction points" (whatever the **** those are) from Blueflame because I mentioned peanut butter. It's like I'm in kindergarten and teacher called my mommy because I picked on the fat kid.

"Seriously"... I've never seen so much crying over what amounts to a meaningless gesture of disapproval over a single post. And "I" think you need to dry the tears and get over it....

strafen
02-10-2010, 10:17 PM
<table id="post2747817" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr title="Post 2747817"><td class="thead" style="font-weight: normal;">http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/statusicon/post_new.gif 02-10-2010, 09:27 PM </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2"> Remove user from ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?userlist=ignore&do=removelist&u=10462)
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Let me tell you how much better it is to see this than his idiotic ramblings. Seriously, the guy is borderline retarded, ignore him an he'll go away.You don't have to read my post, moron. Grow up!

Blueflame
02-10-2010, 10:17 PM
You're confused. We lost a lot of offensive line power due to retirement. We lost Zimmerman to retirement, Habib to the Seahawks, and Schlereth to ESPN.

At one point in time, we had a back up center (George Teague) who was promoted to starting left tackle.

Trey Teague (a converted TE) wasn't an adequate replacement for T-Bone (Tony Jones) either...

strafen
02-10-2010, 10:26 PM
God forbid people can have something to debate about without having overzealous McDaniels nuthuggers take offense at what's being discussed.<TABLE id=post2747831 class=tborder border=0 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=5 width="100%" align=center><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2>sixtimeseight (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/member.php?u=7634) </TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1>This message is hidden because sixtimeseight is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).
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<TABLE id=post2747831 class=tborder border=0 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=5 width="100%" align=center><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2>sixtimeseight (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/member.php?u=7634) </TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1>This message is hidden because sixtimeseight is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).
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strafen
02-10-2010, 10:28 PM
Trey Teague (a converted TE) wasn't an adequate replacement for T-Bone (Tony Jones) either...I remember that guy. He went to the Bills.

Archer81
02-10-2010, 10:28 PM
Your comments about Larsen beating out Hillis sounds condescendant to me.
In any event, Larsen has better blocking skills than Hillis. I can concede that. That's where his abilities over Hillis' end.
Larsen has not had a carry that I could find in two years as a pro.
Hillis is more about his abilities as a runner. I still think he has decent blocking abilities.
Moreno was the guy McD wanted to run the ball. McD knew that Hillis if given ample opportunities to run the ball in the ballpark of 10-15 carries that he would outshine Moreno. That was no-brainer.
To me that's a more realistic reason why he did not get to play as much as he should have.
LaMont Jordan getting more carries over Hillis?
Come on?
That was flat out retarded and reason enough to back up my belief that McD knowingly held Hillis back.
I can guarantee you it got nothing to do with Hillis not performing on the field. 13 carries in a whole season doesn't constitute a fair share of chances to prove his worth...


Another thing to think about. With Turner staying, who had more of a chance to start in 2009 or at least have a head start on a starting role? Hillis or Moreno?

I think our disagreement is over who currently heads the Denver Broncos at HC and the direction he is taking the team, not who is running the football. This is an argument about your dislike of McD, with Hillis being the setup or excuse to launch into a way to criticize McDaniels. He was a rookie HC. He made plenty of mistakes, not playing Hillis when he was not ready to assume a larger role was not one of them.

Condescendant?

:Broncos:

Taco John
02-10-2010, 10:31 PM
Huh. So he was a starter without 6 other backs going onto IR in 2008? Or was McDaniels holding him back by osmosis?


:Broncos:

No, he was a rookie fullback in 2008.

strafen
02-10-2010, 10:38 PM
Another thing to think about. With Turner staying, who had more of a chance to start in 2009 or at least have a head start on a starting role? Hillis or Moreno?

I think our disagreement is over who currently heads the Denver Broncos at HC and the direction he is taking the team, not who is running the football. This is an argument about your dislike of McD, with Hillis being the setup or excuse to launch into a way to criticize McDaniels. He was a rookie HC. He made plenty of mistakes, not playing Hillis when he was not ready to assume a larger role was not one of them.

Condescendant?

:Broncos:There's no doubt that Turner worked with Moreno.
We can argue all day if the direction Mcdaniels wants to take this team to is the right one. I'm not a coach, but I'm willing to bet he will continue to have a rocky road ahead in his pursue to get the team with the system and people he wants.
We have plenty talent. He inherit a talented team and he couldn't achieve anything noteworthy.

Archer81
02-10-2010, 10:46 PM
There's no doubt that Turner worked with Moreno.
We can argue all day if the direction Mcdaniels wants to take this team to is the right one. I'm not a coach, but I'm willing to bet he will continue to have a rocky road ahead in his pursue to get the team with the system and people he wants.
We have plenty talent. He inherit a talented team and he couldn't achieve anything noteworthy.


I doubt the validity of the statement we had a talented team. We had talent at some spots. We had gaping holes at others. He achieved the same record as the previous coach with a "lesser" QB and a worse offensive output. But we will see where it goes.

:Broncos:

Dagmar
02-10-2010, 11:00 PM
For two people who just said they had each other on ignore, you sure are still chatting a bunch...

watermock
02-11-2010, 04:49 AM
I see another poor season ahead. This isn't about "Herb" as much as it's smple minded masterbation.

We are in perfect position to lose several players, or simply piss them off by giving them minimum tenders.

No attempt at all to my knowledge has been done to anyone from the '06 class.

Of with McStalin running a 21st century gulag 13, noone really knows. Bowlen say redo BM, draft a QB. Ha! Chances of that are slim to none, and you can bet someone is going to ante up 60 million for Doom, who benefited from the move to OLB when he was basicbally bullied as a RDE.

We also lost 3 more coaches, Turner, Dennison and Nolan, and got another newbie, (McKid's brother) to on the job training of King Neckbeard.

BTW, Nolan was good enough for Parcells, Dennison for Kubiack and Turner for Shanny, so they landed in better places.

Since we allready lost at home to both the Raiders and Chiefs, we can hope to steal some wins from the Warnerless Cards and Pete up in Seattle.

This was the year we could been a contender as the team matured and the 09 draft concentrated on D and a RB and D fA's.

We got older, less experienced coaching staff and are in a weaker draft position in a better draft.

Archer81
02-11-2010, 07:47 AM
I see another poor season ahead. This isn't about "Herb" as much as it's smple minded masterbation.

We are in perfect position to lose several players, or simply piss them off by giving them minimum tenders.

No attempt at all to my knowledge has been done to anyone from the '06 class.

Of with McStalin running a 21st century gulag 13, noone really knows. Bowlen say redo BM, draft a QB. Ha! Chances of that are slim to none, and you can bet someone is going to ante up 60 million for Doom, who benefited from the move to OLB when he was basicbally bullied as a RDE.

We also lost 3 more coaches, Turner, Dennison and Nolan, and got another newbie, (McKid's brother) to on the job training of King Neckbeard.

BTW, Nolan was good enough for Parcells, Dennison for Kubiack and Turner for Shanny, so they landed in better places.

Since we allready lost at home to both the Raiders and Chiefs, we can hope to steal some wins from the Warnerless Cards and Pete up in Seattle.

This was the year we could been a contender as the team matured and the 09 draft concentrated on D and a RB and D fA's.

We got older, less experienced coaching staff and are in a weaker draft position in a better draft.

Seems everyone but you knew Turner and Dennison were gone after this past season regardless of what the Broncos did. Nolan leaving was mutual...I dont know what else to tell you if you keep thinking its all McDaniels fault they left.

:Broncos:

strafen
02-11-2010, 08:14 AM
Seems everyone but you knew Turner and Dennison were gone after this past season regardless of what the Broncos did. Nolan leaving was mutual...I dont know what else to tell you if you keep thinking its all McDaniels fault they left.

:Broncos:I never even thought Turner or Denison would be leaving the Broncos. Especially Turner more than Denison.
Don't you find disturbing that we lost 3 good coaches of 3 important positions on the team?

That just doesn't happen. Think about it...

BroncoInferno
02-11-2010, 08:43 AM
Moreno was the guy McD wanted to run the ball. McD knew that Hillis if given ample opportunities to run the ball in the ballpark of 10-15 carries that he would outshine Moreno. That was no-brainer.

You honestly believe that McDaniels thought that Hillis would be more productive than Moreno but gave Moreno more carries anyway? To the detriment of the team, and by extension to his own job security? You guys are a riot, man.

strafen
02-11-2010, 08:51 AM
You honestly believe that McDaniels thought that Hillis would be more productive than Moreno but gave Moreno more carries anyway? To the detriment of the team, and by extension to his own job security? You guys are a riot, man.Don't forget the controversy surrounding picking Moreno.
It wasn't anything personal against Moreno per-se, it's got more to do with the fact we were coming off one of the worst collapses in team history by a really bad defense. We didn't need a RB.
McDaniels wanted to prove he did the right thing by drafting Moreno.
IMO Hillis could've been of more help to the team had he given more opportunities. By the same token, Buckhalter could've been given more touches over Moreno as well. Moreno was a rookie and he was named the primary ball carrier. Moreno showed that either he was not ready yet, or he's just not as good as his 12th pick in the draft may indicate. Your pick.

If McDaniels thought Moreno would be the best man for the job, is his decision. He wasn't able to prove that.
The good thing is, we will be able to judge him this coming season. We will find out a lot more about McDaniels and where Moreno is at...

Broncomutt
02-11-2010, 08:53 AM
You honestly believe that McDaniels thought that Hillis would be more productive than Moreno but gave Moreno more carries anyway? To the detriment of the team, and by extension to his own job security? You guys are a riot, man.

Why not? He did it in the Indianapolis game. Moreno was gassed and limping but McD left him out there rather than use a fresh body. To the detriment of the team.

Don't you remember, the media even asked him about it after the game? His excuse was Hillis was the only starting FB and he didn't want him injured. Soooo, he left his only starting HB, who was clearly struggling, out there to get drilled rather than use a fresh player. That right there is called "Josh-logic"!

Detrimental actions to the team don't have to be intentional you know. Sometimes the coach just does stupid stuff.

BroncoInferno
02-11-2010, 08:55 AM
Don't forget the controversy surrounding picking Moreno.
It wasn't anything personal against Moreno per-se, it's got more to do with the fact we were coming off one of the worst collapses in team history by a really bad defense. We didn't need a RB.
McDaniels wanted to prove he did the right thing by drafting Moreno.
IMO Hillis could've been of more help to the team had he given more opportunities. By the same token, Buckhalter could've been given more touches over Moreno as well. Moreno was a rookie and he was named the primary ball carrier. Moreno showed that either he was not ready yet, or he's just not as good as his 12th pick in the draft may indicate. Your pick.

If McDaniels thought Moreno would be the best man for the job, is his decision. He wasn't able to prove that.
The good thing is, we will be able to judge him this coming season. We will find out a lot more about McDaniels and where Moreno is at...

Well, Hillis did not prove that he would have been better than Moreno, either. Your claim is that McDaniels KNEW Hillis would be better and stubbornly refused to give him carries. That is a ridiculous claim. That would mean he'd rather lose to prove a point--and by extension put his own job in jeopardy--than to win a game. No coach would do that. If you think it was a mistake not to give Hillis more carries, fine; but to say McDaniels KNEW that he would be more effective but chose not to give him carries anyway is just a flat out stupid opinion.

jhat01
02-11-2010, 08:58 AM
Why not? He did it in the Indianapolis game. Moreno was gassed and limping but McD left him out there rather than use a fresh body. To the detriment of the team.

Don't you remember, the media even asked him about it after the game? His excuse was Hillis was the only starting FB and he didn't want him injured. Soooo, he left his only starting HB, who was clearly struggling, out there to get drilled rather than use a fresh player. That right there is called "Josh-logic"!

Detrimental actions to the team don't have to be intentional you know. Sometimes the coach just does stupid stuff.

I have to admit that I was scratching my head during that game. Moreno was gassed, and was tackled by the turf several times.

BroncoInferno
02-11-2010, 09:07 AM
Why not? He did it in the Indianapolis game. Moreno was gassed and limping but McD left him out there rather than use a fresh body. To the detriment of the team.

Don't you remember, the media even asked him about it after the game? His excuse was Hillis was the only starting FB and he didn't want him injured. Soooo, he left his only starting HB, who was clearly struggling, out there to get drilled rather than use a fresh player. That right there is called "Josh-logic"!

Detrimental actions to the team don't have to be intentional you know. Sometimes the coach just does stupid stuff.

Of course coaches can do detrimental things to the team without knowing it. That wasn't what dragster claimed. He calim McD KNEW Hillis would be more effective than Moreno but didn't play him anyway. That would fall under the category of doing something INTENTIONALLY detrimental to the team.

Dagmar
02-11-2010, 09:15 AM
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm126/thew_902/Denied_Encino_Man.gif

Broncomutt
02-11-2010, 09:18 AM
Of course coaches can do detrimental things to the team without knowing it. That wasn't what dragster claimed. He calim McD KNEW Hillis would be more effective than Moreno but didn't play him anyway. That would fall under the category of doing something INTENTIONALLY detrimental to the team.

I understand and agree, McDaniels doesn't strike me as the type to intentionally commit professional suicide. He is definitely emotionally charged and very driven to win.

But at the same time, replacing an injured/gassed player with somebody fresh is such a common sense decision. Just give Moreno 1 or 2 plays to catch his breath for Christ sake! When such basic common sense isn't exercised, and a relatively non-sensical excuse is used to back it up, imaginations will soar.

Intentional? Nah.
Imbecile? Maybe.

strafen
02-11-2010, 09:27 AM
Well, Hillis did not prove that he would have been better than Moreno, either. Your claim is that McDaniels KNEW Hillis would be better and stubbornly refused to give him carries. That is a ridiculous claim. That would mean he'd rather lose to prove a point--and by extension put his own job in jeopardy--than to win a game. No coach would do that. If you think it was a mistake not to give Hillis more carries, fine; but to say McDaniels KNEW that he would be more effective but chose not to give him carries anyway is just a flat out stupid opinion.So you don't think Hillis would've done better than Hillis?
Take it for what is worth. Hillis carried the ball only 13 times the whole season. You can't get any continuity by carrying the ball just over 1 carry per game average.
You saw Hillis play in 2008. What made you think without seeing him play enough in 2009 that he wasn't going to be the same productive guy?
He proved in the KC game in KC he hasn't lost anything. Call it garbage time all you want, but what we saw in that game was vintage Peyton Hillis.
You would think that after that performance that McDaniels would've at least considered giving the guy some more playing time?
Why didn't he?

Again when you have a guy who hass demonstrated awesome skills running the ball, a guy that can demand attention from the opposing defenses and you decide not to play that guy, wouldn't that at least raise some questions?
Don't forget Buckhalter. He also had a better chance to perform and help us more if McDaniels wasn't so set on Moreno to succeed.

strafen
02-11-2010, 09:39 AM
But at the same time, replacing an injured/gassed player with somebody fresh is such a common sense decision. Just give Moreno 1 or 2 plays to catch his breath for Christ sake! When such basic common sense isn't exercised, and a relatively non-sensical excuse is used to back it up, imaginations will soar.

Intentional? Nah.
Imbecile? Maybe.That one right there was another telling sign of McDaniels stubborness and ego getting in the way of common football sense.
There were too many things McDaniels actions revealed to us than just saying it with words.
We will chalk it up to the rookie year mistakes. Hopefully he would do things differently this year. The guy seems to speak a pretty line when it comes down to football. We want him to practice what he preaches.

BroncoInferno
02-11-2010, 09:48 AM
So you don't think Hillis would've done better than Hillis?

I don't know, and neither do you. McDaniels obviously didn't think so.

You saw Hillis play in 2008. What made you think without seeing him play enough in 2009 that he wasn't going to be the same productive guy?

NFL history is littered with guys who shined brightly for a stretch of games only to become also-rans for the majority of their career. Scott Mitchell looked like a franchise QB for a brief stretch of time. Just because Hillis was successful in a handful of games last season in no way suggests that that success was going to continue long-term.

He proved in the KC game in KC he hasn't lost anything. Call it garbage time all you want, but what we saw in that game was vintage Peyton Hillis.

The KC game proved nothing. Garbage time is garbage time. The opposition knew they were going to lose and you can't give a player any serious evaluation on his play in such circumstances.

You would think that after that performance that McDaniels would've at least considered giving the guy some more playing time?
Why didn't he?

I think it's clear that, for whatever reason, McD did not trust Hillis with the ball in hisa hands in meaningful situations. Was that distrust justified? I don't know. I wasn't at practice and didn't witness Hillis' effort or how interacted with teammates and the coaching staff. Neither do you.

Again when you have a guy who hass demonstrated awesome skills running the ball, a guy that can demand attention from the opposing defenses and you decide not to play that guy, wouldn't that at least raise some questions?

Sure. But I doubt the answer is that McD KNEW Hillis would be better, as you suggest, but chose to play Moreno to prove some point.

Don't forget Buckhalter. He also had a better chance to perform and help us more if McDaniels wasn't so set on Moreno to succeed.

It's pretty easy to see why Buchhalter got limited carries. The guy is made of glass. He's missed three full seasons in his career due to injury and was dinged up this season as well. He is the classic case of a guy who is most effective in spot duty.

Dagmar
02-11-2010, 09:49 AM
This is surely getting monotonous for everyone on both sides of the fence. Surely?

SURELY!

~Crash~
02-11-2010, 09:49 AM
at post 383 is were I end this puppy. Hills is the type of player that adds zest to a team .with out zest was this team towards the end of the season simple as that .

Gob
02-11-2010, 10:06 AM
It's pretty easy to see why Buchhalter got limited carries. The guy is made of glass. He's missed three full seasons in his career due to injury and was dinged up this season as well. He is the classic case of a guy who is most effective in spot duty.

Sure. I think its pretty easy to see why Moreno should have had his carries reduced also, 10th most in the league is tough for any rookie, and he wasn't very productive (in fact an article over at milehighreports suggests that his runs on first or third down hurt the team more then they helped it). Frankly, I can't understand why Jordan wasn't dropped and someone brought in who McDaniels would feel comfortable taking more carries away from Moreno. I think Hillis would be just fine at that role, but if not then he should have been dropped also and someone else tried out until they found someone they were comfortable with.

BroncoInferno
02-11-2010, 10:41 AM
Sure. I think its pretty easy to see why Moreno should have had his carries reduced also, 10th most in the league is tough for any rookie, and he wasn't very productive (in fact an article over at milehighreports suggests that his runs on first or third down hurt the team more then they helped it). Frankly, I can't understand why Jordan wasn't dropped and someone brought in who McDaniels would feel comfortable taking more carries away from Moreno. I think Hillis would be just fine at that role, but if not then he should have been dropped also and someone else tried out until they found someone they were comfortable with.

I think blocking was a bigger issue for the running game than the running backs. On many of the unsuccessful plays it wouldn't have mattered if Earl Campbell was back there.

watermock
02-11-2010, 10:46 AM
Just look at the benching of BM and Scheff in the last game. Moreno looked either slow or tenative or both all season long.

Buck had a very good season.

Why doesn't everyone admit the McBeavis is just what he has shown.

Jordan sucked salty balls all season for anyone with eyes, yet his old ass was supposed to power his way in.

If we were going to a power rushing scheme, wouldn't of been better to take Orakapo, then Cushing, then Greene.

watermock
02-11-2010, 10:55 AM
I think blocking was a bigger issue for the running game than the running backs. On many of the unsuccessful plays it wouldn't have mattered if Earl Campbell was back there.

Yeah sure, Earl Cambells and Ricky Williams come few and far between.

It wasn't the line, it was Beavis awsome running attack.

Hell, I think were worse running than in '08.

Moreno isn't a bad back, he's good in all areas, but he's not great in any area.

As far as Hillis, he's a true TB and was force to play at AR because the had McFadden and Felix.

McNutt hated him too.

Hillis still produced on every stage he's been on.

Dagmar
02-11-2010, 10:57 AM
Hillis still produced on every stage he's been on.

Especially special teams!
http://calvinandhobbes.home.sapo.pt/imgs/e_cards/laughing.gif

watermock
02-11-2010, 11:05 AM
What? 1 false start and 1 fumble lost?

Season Team Rushing Receiving Fumbles
G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
2009 Denver Broncos 14 2 13 54 4.2 13 1 4 19 4.8 6 0 1 1
2008 Denver Broncos 12 6 68 343 5.0 19 5 14 179 12.8 47 1 -- --
TOTAL 81 397 4.9 19 6 18 198 11.0 47 1 1 1

4.9 a carry and 11 per reception? and 1 fumble?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dagmar
02-11-2010, 11:09 AM
Those stats indicate a huge success!

Hillis has been a HUGE success wherever he has been.

HUGE!!!









http://i48.tinypic.com/309r71f.gif

Dagmar
02-11-2010, 11:11 AM
http://i45.tinypic.com/oho9dy.jpg

Is how I am going to TRY and treat my arguments with mock from now on.

Won't work, but dagnabbit I'll try!

Beantown Bronco
02-11-2010, 11:31 AM
Anyone who needs to know why Hillis didn't get more action this season need look no further than what he did in the first Oakland game. On the first drive, they called his number 3 times in a matter of 4 plays from the goal line. Results?

Stuffed twice and false started.

Combine that with a fumble on special teams a week or two later and there you have it.

watermock
02-11-2010, 12:42 PM
And yet he still averaged 4.2 a carry in '09.

It's not his fault McGenius couldn't see that LG was weak.

Want to look up Jordan's stats?

2009 Denver Broncos 9 0 25 86 3.4 13 0 0 0 -- -- 0 --

But he was a Patriot and "knew the system"!


What bullcrap.

Beantown Bronco
02-11-2010, 12:44 PM
It's not his fault McGenius couldn't see that LG was weak.


Yet it somehow is Moreno's fault. Weird.

watermock
02-11-2010, 12:50 PM
Why don't you look at Moreno's fumbles?

4 lost, and he didn't return kicks.

watermock
02-11-2010, 12:51 PM
Yet it somehow is Moreno's fault. Weird.

I've never blamed Moreno for anything ever. It isn't his fault we reached at 11.

Beantown Bronco
02-11-2010, 01:00 PM
Why don't you look at Moreno's fumbles?

4 lost, and he didn't return kicks.

What's there to look at? 4 lost fumbles? Big deal. Peterson does that in one game. Moreno did it with a TON of carries for a rookie.

He never fumbled in college and he was much better at protecting the ball over the last third of the season. He'll be fine.

I've never blamed Moreno for anything ever. It isn't his fault we reached at 11.

This is the 2nd time you've said they got him at 11. They didn't. They got him at 12.

And why was he a reach? Everyone in the world knew the Chargers were eye-balling him at their spot which was #16. So, unless the Broncos had another pick before #16, by definition it's not a reach.

DBroncos4life
02-11-2010, 01:09 PM
It finally has the attention of the CDC. The most notable symptom is delusional thinking. People suffering often feel like they are falling because they have no ground to stand on, and often cause others mild headaches. For anymore information visit this website....

http://www.cdc.gov/

watermock
02-11-2010, 01:19 PM
So we had an outstanding draft? And we've resigned what is left from the '06 draft?

Beantown Bronco
02-11-2010, 01:28 PM
So we had an outstanding draft? And we've resigned what is left from the '06 draft?

It's WAAAAAAY too soon to grade this draft. And what does re-signing anyone from the 06 draft have to do with anything? They're all essentially under contract for at least one more year. Why rush into anything before the CBA situation is resolved? It's not exactly good business to give away tens of millions of dollars in signing bonuses when there may not even be a 2011 season, now is it?

DenverBrit
02-11-2010, 01:31 PM
So we had an outstanding draft?

Maybe, time will tell.

And we've resigned what is left from the '06 draft?

Don't know if Denver has re-signed the 06 draft class, maybe Josina knows.



.

Dagmar
02-11-2010, 01:42 PM
So we had an outstanding draft? And we've resigned what is left from the '06 draft?

Change the record dude. For ****s sake.

watermock
02-11-2010, 02:17 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/st7kPSQ98Mg&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/st7kPSQ98Mg&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>.

McBeavis must be apprehended!

DenverBrit
02-11-2010, 04:31 PM
McBeavis must be apprehended!

You'll enjoy his company in re-hab.

Of course, he'll be wearing the white coat. ;D

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/samc352/samc3520708/samc352070800004/1447697.jpg

errand
02-13-2010, 06:16 AM
Trey Teague (a converted TE) wasn't an adequate replacement for T-Bone (Tony Jones) either...

Matt Lepsis was a converted TE...he turned out OK.

errand
02-13-2010, 06:21 AM
I never even thought Turner or Denison would be leaving the Broncos. Especially Turner more than Denison.
Don't you find disturbing that we lost 3 good coaches of 3 important positions on the team?

That just doesn't happen. Think about it...

There are two kinds of coaches...those that are fired, and those that going to be. I find it amazing alot of fans on here bitching about Dennison being canned....for years he was flogged by you clowns as being an idiot and as far as Turner is concerned, you do realize it was his recommendation that Mike draft Maurice Clarett.....

errand
02-13-2010, 06:25 AM
Why don't you look at Moreno's fumbles?

4 lost, and he didn't return kicks.

yeah to go with 947 rushing yards and 7 td's