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View Full Version : Shanny's last 10 games finish.


azbroncfan
01-12-2010, 09:10 AM
2002 5-5
2003 5-5
2004 5-5
2005 8-2
2006 With a FRANCHISE QB ERA 4-6
2007 4-6
2008 4-6

One winning finish to last 10 games in his last 7 here in Denver. All losing seasons with franchise QB. Just saying.

Rohirrim
01-12-2010, 09:11 AM
Ooops. This ought to be good. ;D

You should post this at Extreme Skins. :rofl:

jhns
01-12-2010, 09:15 AM
Which us why he was fired. Still all better than 2-8. Even with the worst defense in franchise history and a lot more injuries.

supermanhr9
01-12-2010, 09:15 AM
wow, I had no idea. He established a culture here of not finishing strong, McD has his work cut out to end that way of thinking in Denver.

Yes I am making an excuse for McDaniels.

bronco militia
01-12-2010, 09:17 AM
shanny (4-6)>mc****face (2-8)

azbroncfan
01-12-2010, 09:18 AM
shanny (4-6)>mc****face (2-8)

8-8=8-8= NO PLAYOFFS no matter how you slice it.

Meck77
01-12-2010, 09:24 AM
We had had some great years with Jake Plummer.

Doggcow
01-12-2010, 09:28 AM
8-8=8-8= NO PLAYOFFS no matter how you slice it.

You just blew his mind.

chrisp
01-12-2010, 09:28 AM
It is at the very least fair to say that Mc D failed to stop the tendency to finish weak rather than that he is responsible for it. I'm hoping its something we can address next season. In fact, I'm almost hoping we can start out 0-3 or something, as I'm so sick of us fading down the stretch...

Thing is, we faded late-season even back in the days we were good! in 1996 we took our foot off the gas deliberately, in our first SB-winning season we had a worrying late-season slump and even in 1998 we ended up going 2-2 over the final four after starting 12-0. I don't think we've EVER had a season with a better record over the last eight...EVER....

I really, really wonder if it does have something to do with the thin air? People say that it gives US an extra home-field advantage (most famously John Madden) but maybe playing in that thin air 8 games a season wears guys down a little more? Certainly it seems to happen time and time again no matter who's coaching or who's in the team, and we don't exactly have the best home playoff record since 1996 either......

azbroncfan
01-12-2010, 09:32 AM
We had had some great years with Jake Plummer.

Yep a lot better than the supposed franchise QB.

Doggcow
01-12-2010, 09:32 AM
It is at the very least fair to say that Mc D failed to stop the tendency to finish weak rather than that he is responsible for it. I'm hoping its something we can address next season. In fact, I'm almost hoping we can start out 0-3 or something, as I'm so sick of us fading down the stretch...

Thing is, we faded late-season even back in the days we were good! in 1996 we took our foot off the gas deliberately, in our first SB-winning season we had a worrying late-season slump and even in 1998 we ended up going 2-2 over the final four after starting 12-0. I don't think we've EVER had a season with a better record over the last eight...EVER....

I really, really wonder if it does have something to do with the thin air? People say that it gives US an extra home-field advantage (most famously John Madden) but maybe playing in that thin air 8 games a season wears guys down a little more? Certainly it seems to happen time and time again no matter who's coaching or who's in the team, and we don't exactly have the best home playoff record since 1996 either......

Sell that story to CBS, sure you could pull an article out of it, no matter which answer proves true.

PRBronco
01-12-2010, 09:35 AM
It's not complicated:

I think Shanny's weak finishes were more due to his stubborness. He would just keep jamming his game plan down everyone's throat even though everyone knew what he was doing and knew how to stop it.

This season was more due to a difference in talent levels. As teams figured out our tendencies and our players had to actually win 1 on 1 battles, they just couldn't get it done. Losing Ryan Harris, and Hamilton and Wiegman's drastic declines just didn't allow our offense to win any battles, and the overall lack of talent on defense got exposed more as the season went on and our linemen couldn't get by on hustle any more.

Of course the talent level hurt Shanny's teams as well, towards the end of his tenure.

bronco militia
01-12-2010, 09:35 AM
8-8=8-8= NO PLAYOFFS no matter how you slice it.

well duh! thanks for the awesome thread!

Doggcow
01-12-2010, 09:38 AM
well duh! thanks for the awesome thread!

Are you ****ting me? His post was at least as relevant as yours. Keep running around like a hypocritical douchebag.

bronco militia
01-12-2010, 09:39 AM
Are you ****ting me? His post was at least as relevant as yours. Keep running around like a hypocritical douchebag.

thanks for caring!

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 09:46 AM
You guys do realize that our collapse was due to lack of depth all across the board. We brought in a bunch of veteran stop gaps (and play makers) along with guys to fill voids of 50% of our roster being cut. I think we wont see the same results in year two, and even stronger results in year 3. McDaniels has had one offseason to fill this roster with guys that fit our scheme give him another two years and we will be able to maintain strong starts. As long as Josh doesn't bring in a bunch of street free agents like Engleburger, Winborn, and Vernon Fox....errr never mind.

bpc
01-12-2010, 10:16 AM
McD managed to out-do all collapses in just his very first season in Denver. It's easier to win the super bowl than fail like McD did down the stretch.

We're now one of only 3 teams since the AFL/NFL merger (SPANNING 44 YEARS!) to start 6-0, and fail to make the playoffs. We did it in grand fashion too, with a week to spare, losing to a 4-12, and 5-11 team AT home no less.

Sorry guys, bag on Shanny all you want but in 15 years in Denver, Jack McDaniels managed to surpass him in one foul swoop. Not only that, he can't control his locker room and Denver has been the laughing stock of the NFL all season.

Arkie
01-12-2010, 10:32 AM
2002 5-5
2003 5-5
2004 5-5
2005 8-2
------------------------------------------------------
2006 With a FRANCHISE QB ERA 4-6
2007 4-6
2008 4-6

One winning finish to last 10 games in his last 7 here in Denver. All losing seasons with franchise QB. Just saying.

Three playoffs with Plummer with a couple .500's down the stretch.

April 29, 2006 was the day the franchise turned around and went in a different direction. It didn't work out.

Doggcow
01-12-2010, 10:35 AM
McD managed to out-do all collapses in just his very first season in Denver. It's easier to win the super bowl than fail like McD did down the stretch.

We're now one of only 3 teams to start 6-0, and fail to make the playoffs. We did it in grand fashion too, with a week to spare, losing to a 4-12, and 5-11 team AT home no less.

Sorry guys, bag on Shanny all you want but in 15 years in Denver, Jack McDaniels managed to surpass him in one foul swoop. Not only that, he can't control his locker room and Denver has been the laughing stock of the NFL all season.

How many teams in the NFL have ever started 6-0 btw?

Taco John
01-12-2010, 10:36 AM
None of them as bas as 2-8, huh?

bpc
01-12-2010, 10:38 AM
How many teams in the NFL have ever started 6-0 btw?

Who knows, who cares? The only newsworthy part about that record is the destinction of choking away the playoffs, as we did.

Shanahan had some seasons we wish would have ended better... but he never failed as miserably as 2009.

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 10:38 AM
McD managed to out-do all collapses in just his very first season in Denver. It's easier to win the super bowl than fail like McD did down the stretch.

We're now one of only 3 teams to start 6-0, and fail to make the playoffs. We did it in grand fashion too, with a week to spare, losing to a 4-12, and 5-11 team AT home no less.

Sorry guys, bag on Shanny all you want but in 15 years in Denver, Jack McDaniels managed to surpass him in one foul swoop. Not only that, he can't control his locker room and Denver has been the laughing stock of the NFL all season.

Your right Shanny doesn't deserve all of the criticism he gets for his repeated late season collapses, but a rookie head coach with a gutted roster does?

I've said this multiple times now and I'm not going to stop until people get the point. We cut half of our roster from last year and brought in a bunch of rookies and FAs to fill the holes. We wore down as the season went on because we didn't have the depth to continue to perform at the level we achieved through the first six games. You can call it overachieving or you can just look at it for what it was. Both of our lines were fresh, healthy, and dominant. Heres a breakdown of how the Broncos broke down...

*Ryan Harris IR (we lost one our book ends and teams started to exploit our lack of T depth.)

*Lack of adequate rotation on the defensive line. Ron Fields wore down, Ryan McBean couldn't stay healthy and we were forced to adjust the scheme that made our defense dominant though our fist 6 games.

*Our interior line was inferior and as the season progressed they started to get dominated. This is something we will address this offseason guaranteed.

*The two most effective RBs on this team were a Rookie (who like all rookies..wore down), and a veteran with chronic knee problems.

*Because of our poor offensive line play we could not sustain drives and again wore down our defense.

By the time we played the Chiefs we were so beat up and ineffective across our lines we probably couldn't have beat the Lions. We need QUALITY depth across both of our lines along with a bigger more productive interior O-Line. This is what happens when you rebuild a team, you cut all of the players that were scheme stop gaps for the previous regime and start replacing them with your guys. Thats what is going on its plain and simple. You should feel privileged to have a coach who was capable to put us in position to have one of the worst collapses in NFL history because most teams who rebuild like we are don't sniff 6 wins in season let alone starting 6-0. The Steelers went through this process a few years ago, the Saints went through this process, the Jets, the Giants...the list goes on. Two of those teams won superbowl's not to long after, and the Saints could be on their way. You should follow other NFL teams more, and you might realize it was damn impressive that we started the way we did.

How many teams have cut 50% of their roster and then started the season 6-0? I bet there are less than 3 teams in NFL history.

bpc
01-12-2010, 10:40 AM
2002 5-5
2003 5-5
2004 5-5
2005 8-2
2006 With a FRANCHISE QB ERA 4-6
2007 4-6
2008 4-6

One winning finish to last 10 games in his last 7 here in Denver. All losing seasons with franchise QB. Just saying.

The funny and stupid thing about your post is that you are assumed a. that Jake Plummer was any kind of franchise player in 2005, b that Jay Cutler could attain franchise status during just his first FULL season in the NFL.

Your expectations are bull****, but that can be said about many unknowledgable NFL fans. The Denver Bronco fans have been spoiled for a long time. Unfortunately for us, I think we're soon going to be realizing how much in the coming seasons when we get to see how the other half lives.

Taco John
01-12-2010, 10:41 AM
I wouldn't have cared so much about losing 8 of the last ten games if the two wins were against the Raiders and the Chiefs at home.

That was a pathetic finish whether Josh was a rookie head coach or not. Losing to the Raiders and Chiefs - especially with the sorry state of their teams - at home like we did was a terrible way to close a season.

bloodsunday
01-12-2010, 10:43 AM
You guys are so busy arguing about "my dad can beat up your dad" that you are missing the point. How as a Broncos organization do we reverse that trend? 2 - 8 versus 4 - 6 is not worth arguing about. The big question is why can't we win late in the season? Until we do that, we don't stand a chance to get in the playoffs or win when we do.

I submit there are two things that we need to change:
1) The team needs to get younger -- build through the draft. Our best players are old and I think they tend to wear down and get injured later in the year
2) We need to get guys that dominated the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball

And a possible 3rd choice is that we need some stability. Shanny rotating d-coordinators every year certainly didn't help us to settle on personnel or for the personnel we have to master the system.

bpc
01-12-2010, 10:46 AM
Your right Shanny doesn't deserve all of the criticism he gets for his repeated late season collapses, but a rookie head coach with a gutted roster does.

I've said this multiple times now and I'm not going to stop until people get the point. We cut half of our roster from last year and brought in a bunch of rookies and FAs to fill the holes. We wore down as the season went on because we didn't have the depth to continue to perform at the level we achieved through the first six games. You can call it overachieving or you can just look at it for what it was. Both of our lines were fresh, healthy, and dominant. Heres a breakdown of how the Broncos broke down...

*Ryan Harris IR (we lost one our book ends and teams started to exploit our lack of T depth.)

*Lack of adequate rotation on the defensive line. Ron Fields wore down, Ryan McBean couldn't stay healthy and we were forced to adjust the scheme that made our defense dominant though our fist 6 games.

*Our interior line was inferior and as the season progressed they started to get dominated. This is something we will address this offseason guaranteed.

*The two most effective RBs on this team were a Rookie (who like all rookies..wore down), and a veteran with chronic knee problems.

*Because of our poor offensive line play we could not sustain drives and again wore down our defense.

By the time we played the Chiefs we were so beat up and ineffective across our lines we probably couldn't have beat the Lions. We need QUALITY depth across both of our lines along with a bigger more productive interior O-Line. This is what happens when you rebuild a team, you cut all of the players that were scheme stop gaps for the previous regime and start replacing them with your guys. Thats what is going on its plain and simple. You should feel privileged to have a coach who was capable to put us in position to have one of the worst collapses in NFL history because most teams who rebuild like we are don't sniff 6 wins in season let alone starting 6-0. The Steelers went through this process a few years ago, the Saints went through this process, the Jets, the Giants...the list goes on. Two of those teams won superbowl's not to long after, and the Saints could be on their way. You should follow other NFL teams more, and you might realize it was damn impressive that we started the way we did.

How many teams have cut 50% of their roster and then started the season 6-0? I bet there are less than 3 teams in NFL history.

I stopped reading after the first sentence. McDaniels had a top 5, offensive yardage unit. Scoring would come. So how come the only gutting was self inflicted when he tore apart the offense? All the people he brought to this defense, which performed well and ADMIRABLY for over 2/3's of the season until they wore out, were FA and draft pickups. We couldn't have done that without moving Cutler? Dawkins, Hill, Fields, Goodman, Holliday, Reid, Davis? FA, FA, FA, FA, FA, FA.

The only gutting that went on this offseason was McDaniels taking a knife to the offense, cutting out Cutler, and rendering other important parts useless. Go check the stats. The failure to make the playoffs was McDaniels fault. Give this offense another three-seven pts per game with Cutler at the helm and I think we're easily in the playoffs.

Hey, McDaniels ****ed up, put himself in the record books and here we are. Sorry, no pass on this instance. His running and management of this team has been questionable since day 1 and that's along with all the good things he has done. You're just making excuses.

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 10:47 AM
I wouldn't have cared so much about losing 8 of the last ten games if the two wins were against the Raiders and the Chiefs at home.

That was a pathetic finish whether Josh was a rookie head coach or not. Losing to the Raiders and Chiefs - especially with the sorry state of their teams - at home like we did was a terrible way to close a season.

I agree but both of those teams started to put their teams together toward the end of the season. Jamal Charles out rushed the entire NFL through the last six games, and the Chiefs defense started to make sense of the 3-4 as the season wore on. If they get Eric Berry watch out!

After the first Chiefs game I told a buddy of mine that if the Broncos played like that again they wouldn't be so lucky. We won that game because of drops by the chef WRs and dumb turnovers. The Chiefs played a disciplined game and I was right they kicked our ass.

The Raiders...there is no excuse for that game, we played terrible.

Taco John
01-12-2010, 10:54 AM
I don't think there's ever an excuse for losing to either the Raiders or the Chiefs at home. It's just something that shouldn't happen, whether it's Shanahan or McDaniels or whoever is the coach.

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 10:54 AM
I stopped reading after the first sentence. McDaniels had a top 5, offensive yardage unit. Scoring would come. So how come the only gutting was self inflicted when he tore apart the offense? All the people he brought to this defense, which performed well and ADMIRABLY for over 2/3's of the season until they wore out, were FA and draft pickups. We couldn't have done that without moving Cutler? Dawkins, Hill, Fields, Goodman, Holliday, Reid, Davis? FA, FA, FA, FA, FA, FA.

The only gutting that went on this offseason was McDaniels taking a knife to the offense, cutting out Cutler, and rendering other important parts useless. Go check the stats. The failure to make the playoffs was McDaniels fault. Give this offense another three-seven pts per game with Cutler at the helm and I think we're easily in the playoffs.

Hey, McDaniels ****ed up, put himself in the record books and here we are. Sorry, no pass on this instance. His running and management of this team has been questionable since day 1 and that's along with all the good things he has done. You're just making excuses.

You should have kept reading...

We lost 2 starters on offense.

TE: Daniel Grahm= Same
RB: Kno=New
QB: Orton=New
WR: Marshall= Same
WR: Eddie= Same
WR: Gaffney= New but we still had Stokely so Same
T: Clady= Same
T: Harris= same
G: Hamilton= Same
C: Weigman=same
G: Kuper= Same

Looks like the same damn offense to me, just a new QB and an upgrade at reciever and RB. What are you talking about dude, your way to butt hurt about losing Cutler. Shed the man crush and come back to reality the only side of the ball that was gutted and rebuilt was the Defense.

DT: Fields=new
DE: McBean= New
DE: Peterson= old
LB: Doom=old
LB: DJ= old
LB: Davis=new
LB: Hagan= old (new starter)
S: Dawkins= new
S: Hill= new
CB: Goodman=new
CB: Champ= old

By my count thats 5 new starters on defense and 2 on offense. Its even more drastic if you want to look at depth. Your argument is null and void...next please!

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 11:00 AM
I don't think there's ever an excuse for losing to either the Raiders or the Chiefs at home. It's just something that shouldn't happen, whether it's Shanahan or McDaniels or whoever is the coach.

Well thats been our problem for the last two seasons, and thats why this offseason is the most crucial in team history. Both the Chiefs and the Raiders after 8 years in the cellar are on the up and up (expected when you pick in the top 5 year in year out.). We have to make the moves to really separate ourselves or they are going to overtake us in this division and we are going to be the cellar team in the AFC West...well maybe not I don't know if the raiders will ever get out of the cellar. If we address the interior line and add more depth along the defensive front this team will be in the playoffs next year. We are heading in the right direction we just need to fill these needs while we still have the veterans that are holding this young core together. Once we can replace the Veterans with quality replacements this team will begin to dominate.

TonyR
01-12-2010, 11:01 AM
I stopped reading after the first sentence.

...with Cutler at the helm and I think we're easily in the playoffs...


You should have kept reading, perhaps you'd learn something. Although I highly doubt it since the reality of the debacle that was the Jay Cutler led Chicago Bears somehow still escapes your self perpetuated reality. Stick with the drumbeat of your agenda. It will be nice having a break from you again next season when the team is winning. You'll always have the Bears and Redskins to root for.

bpc
01-12-2010, 11:02 AM
You should have kept reading...

We lost 2 starters on offense.

TE: Daniel Grahm= Same
RB: Kno=New
QB: Orton=New
WR: Marshall= Same
WR: Eddie= Same
WR: Gaffney= New but we still had Stokely so Same
T: Clady= Same
T: Harris= same
G: Hamilton= Same
C: Weigman=same
G: Kuper= Same

Looks like the same damn offense to me just a new QB and an upgrade at reciever and RB. What are you talking about dude, your way to but hurt about losing Cutler. Shed the man crush and come back to reality the only side of the ball that was gutted and rebuilt was the Defense.

DT: Fields=new
DE: McBean= New
DE: Peterson= old
LB: Doom=old
LB: DJ= old
LB: Davis=new
LB: Hagan= old (new starter)
S: Dawkins= new
S: Hill= new
CB: Goodman=new
CB: Champ= old

By my count thats 5 new starters on defense and 2 on offense. Its even more drastic if you want to look at depth. Your argument is null and void...next please!

So what happened that caused us to fall off on offense? Something changed? That WAS our weak link this year. We UPGRADED at HB as you said. Why did the OL fail, why did Eddie Royal fail, why did short yardage fail, why did McD fail to produce TD's as he said that is what his offense will bring to Denver over the last regime?

A whole lot of smoke.

Nothing was gutted on this roster. We just made FA improvements. The draft didn't bring crap except through special teams. Buck and whomever could have reproduced Knowshon's results from this year. He couldn't even manage 62 yds a game necessary to get 1000 yds rushing, and that landmark is like a joke now.

Taco John
01-12-2010, 11:03 AM
...this offseason is the most crucial in team history.

I don't believe that for a second.

bpc
01-12-2010, 11:05 AM
You should have kept reading, perhaps you'd learn something. Although I highly doubt it since the reality of the debacle that was the Jay Cutler led Chicago Bears somehow still escapes your self perpetuated reality. Stick with the drumbeat of your agenda. It will be nice having a break from you again next season when the team is winning. You'll always have the Bears and Redskins to root for.

Learn what, that our offense failed miserably this year vs. last season? That FA's filled up our defense nicely as we switched to a 3-4, unfortunately they were hung out to dry too long by a offensive unit which couldn't score?

You guys are clueless.

As for me, i'm here after every win, every loss. Go back each week and take a look. When I'm wrong, I say it. When I'm right, i say it. I heaped TONS of praise on McDaniels through week 6. Unfortunately, i should have redirected it towards the job Nolan did. McD didn't carry his weight this season and that's why the team failed.

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 11:08 AM
So what happened that caused us to fall off on offense? Something changed? That WAS our weak link this year. We UPGRADED at HB as you said. Why did the OL fail, why did Eddie Royal fail, why did short yardage fail, why did McD fail to produce TD's as he said that is what his offense will bring to Denver over the last regime?

A whole lot of smoke.

Nothing was gutted on this roster. We just made FA improvements. The draft didn't bring crap except through special teams. Buck and whomever could have reproduced Knowshon's results from this year. He couldn't even manage 62 yds a game necessary to get 1000 yds rushing, and that landmark is like a joke now.

The OL failed because of injuries and a scheme change. The offense failed because the OL failed, and we had a new QB in a new scheme along with the rest of the offense. Its not hard to see why the offense was not productive, they showed flash's they just need to develop consistency.

And yes cutting 50% of the roster and replacing 9 of 22 starters is gutting a team.

The running game does need to improve but again along with the rest of the offense it starts in the Trench's. Guard and Center need to be a huge focus this offseason or I will be joining you in your disapproval of Coach McDaniels. Until then he has my full support.

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 11:10 AM
I don't believe that for a second.

Do you honestly believe this team can improve from a .500 season without some major upgrades on both lines? I sure don't.

bpc
01-12-2010, 11:14 AM
The OL failed because of injuries and a scheme change. The offense failed because the OL failed, and we had a new QB in a new scheme along with the rest of the offense. Its not hard to see why the offense was not productive, they showed flash's they just need to develop consistency.

And yes cutting 50% of the roster and replacing 9 of 22 starters is gutting a team.

The running game does need to improve but again along with the rest of the offense it starts in the Trench's. Guard and Center need to be a huge focus this offseason or I will be joining you in your disapproval of Coach McDaniels. Until then he has my full support.

System change = you should have been smarter and played to your player's strengths, which we did not do. Hell, we didn't even use our best players sometimes.

Those are the facts. Mental, is not always physical, unless you want to assume that McD gutted this teams brains and they forgot how to play effectively.

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 11:18 AM
System change = you should have been smarter and played to your player's strengths, which we did not do. Hell, we didn't even use our best players sometimes.

Those are the facts. Mental, is not always physical, unless you want to assume that McD gutted this teams brains and they forgot how to play effectively.

We did play to our players strengths thats why we won 6 games against playoff teams (San Diego, Cincy, NE, Dallas), injuries then wear and tear of season put this team on their heals. You should have kept reading I explained all of this.

Because we gutted our roster we did not have the quality of depth necessary to maintain the level of success we achieved while this team still had gas in the tank.

Broncomutt
01-12-2010, 11:21 AM
The late season collapse would have been a little easier to stomach had McDaniels not decided to act like he won the Super Bowl after week 5, or tell opposing players "he owned them" right before getting his ass humiliated. :confuzzle

We'll see, maybe McDaniels will learn. Then again, should be interesting to see what other ways he comes up with embarassing himself. :coach:

I wanted Shanny gone for a long time and was glad to see him go, but I'll give him credit, he never pulled that kind of stupid crap.

HEAV
01-12-2010, 11:23 AM
We had had some great years with Jake Plummer.

Hell yea! Plummer was a winner!

HEAV
01-12-2010, 11:28 AM
The late season collapse would have been a little easier to stomach had McDaniels not decided to act like he won the Super Bowl after week 5, or tell opposing players "he owned them" right before getting his ass humiliated. :confuzzle

He said "When he was in NE they (meaning NE) owned SD. It was spun by the Chugs linebacker. The same linebacker that was twitter'n from a club after the Broncos smack his team in the mouth on Monday night.


We'll see, maybe McDaniels will learn. Then again, should be interesting to see what other ways he comes up with embarassing himself. :coach:

I wanted Shanny gone for a long time and was glad to see him go, but I'll give him credit, he never pulled that kind of stupid crap.

Sure...right...

kamakazi_kal
01-12-2010, 11:30 AM
It's not complicated:

I think Shanny's weak finishes were more due to his stubborness. He would just keep jamming his game plan down everyone's throat even though everyone knew what he was doing and knew how to stop it.

This season was more due to a difference in talent levels. As teams figured out our tendencies and our players had to actually win 1 on 1 battles, they just couldn't get it done. Losing Ryan Harris, and Hamilton and Wiegman's drastic declines just didn't allow our offense to win any battles, and the overall lack of talent on defense got exposed more as the season went on and our linemen couldn't get by on hustle any more.

Of course the talent level hurt Shanny's teams as well, towards the end of his tenure.

This sounds allot like Mcd's final 10 games.

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 11:31 AM
I like seeing that kind of passion in a coach, I don't agree with him talking ****. Mike Tomlin comes to mind, we would be lucky to have Josh turn into a Mike Tomlin (success wise) but they definitely have the same approach. Shanny was an Xs and Os guy this team needed a motivator and thats exactly what we got.

bpc
01-12-2010, 11:33 AM
Hell yea! Plummer was a winner!

Arguably Shanahan's best coaching job was done with Plummer. He turned the lovable loser into a playoff QB who made the pro bowl.

Highly underrated by those that cast criticisms on Mike's last 10 years.

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 11:33 AM
This sounds allot like Mcd's final 10 games.

There's truth to this, especially the outside runs. I started a drinking game with Josh's play calling...everytime the Broncos pitch the ball out wide and we lose a yard or two, Drink.

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 11:35 AM
Arguably Shanahan's best coaching job was done with Plummer. He turned the lovable loser into a playoff QB who made the pro bowl.

Highly underrated by those that cast criticisms on Mike's last 10 years.

Fully agree, who would have thought before Jay broke the franchise passing record that Jake Plummer of all people would have the most passing yards in Bronco History.

bpc
01-12-2010, 11:35 AM
I like seeing that kind of passion in a coach, I don't agree with him talking ****. Mike Tomlin comes to mind, we would be lucky to have Josh turn into a Mike Tomlin (success wise) but they definitely have the same approach. Shanny was an Xs and Os guy this team needed a motivator and thats exactly what we got.

Ha ha. Mike Tomlin and Jack McDaniels are about as opposite as it comes. Tomlin is smart, tough, and absolute. He has innate confidence in his ability and knows how to control players.

McDaniels has shown to be slightly two faced, unconfrontational, slithery, untactful, and arrogant. He also loves to show people up.

bpc
01-12-2010, 11:37 AM
Fully agree, who would have thought before Jay broke the franchise passing record that Jake Plummer of all people would have the most passing yards in Bronco History.

And he tied John's season TD mark with 27.

I liked Jake. Fun guy to root for. Unfortunately his limitations killed us in big games and I did not think very highly of the way that he just folded during 2006. We put competition behind him and he quit.

oubronco
01-12-2010, 11:38 AM
I agree but both of those teams started to put their teams together toward the end of the season. Jamal Charles out rushed the entire NFL through the last six games, and the Chiefs defense started to make sense of the 3-4 as the season wore on. If they get Eric Berry watch out!

After the first Chiefs game I told a buddy of mine that if the Broncos played like that again they wouldn't be so lucky. We won that game because of drops by the chef WRs and dumb turnovers. The Chiefs played a disciplined game and I was right they kicked our ass.

The Raiders...there is no excuse for that game, we played terrible.

wasn't this what popps and his crew were preaching we would do this year.............Oops

Taco John
01-12-2010, 11:40 AM
Do you honestly believe this team can improve from a .500 season without some major upgrades on both lines? I sure don't.

That's beside the point of this being the most crucial offseason in team history.

But yeah, I think Josh has himself created a situation where we not only need to improve the defensive line, but also now the offensive line. This is why I've been concerned that we're actually regressing. Prior to him coming to the team, the offensive line was considered a strength of ours. Now it's talked about as a liability.

I personally think he is making a mistake that may end up costing him his job over the long haul. I think rather than jettisoning the ZBS, he should have opted to intergrate it and innovate his system around what was already a strength. Instead, he chose to take these guys and force them into a system that didn't match their talents. We ended up getting blown off the ball because of it, and couldn't get a single 100 yard game out of a runningback all year.

We have needs all over the field now, where before, we just had needs on defense. Maybe the approach is one step back, two step forwards. I'll be happy if that's the case. But I'm concerned that it's going to be "two steps back."

oubronco
01-12-2010, 11:40 AM
So what happened that caused us to fall off on offense? Something changed? That WAS our weak link this year. We UPGRADED at HB as you said. Why did the OL fail, why did Eddie Royal fail, why did short yardage fail, why did McD fail to produce TD's as he said that is what his offense will bring to Denver over the last regime?

A whole lot of smoke.

Nothing was gutted on this roster. We just made FA improvements. The draft didn't bring crap except through special teams. Buck and whomever could have reproduced Knowshon's results from this year. He couldn't even manage 62 yds a game necessary to get 1000 yds rushing, and that landmark is like a joke now.

Scheme, Playcalling?

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 11:43 AM
wasn't this what popps and his crew were preaching we would do this year.............Oops

Sure...I don't care what they anybody on the Mane was endorsing during the season. This whole picking sides and talking about crews is not really my style man, I just like having good football discussion so if your going to go around pointing fingers and calling people out you should check out Broncomania.


I don't think anybody saw this collapse coming, now all we can do is analyze discuss and hope this mess gets fixed.

oubronco
01-12-2010, 11:45 AM
Sure...I don't care what they anybody on the Mane was endorsing during the season. This whole picking sides and talking about crews is not really my style man, I just like having good football discussion so if your going to go around pointing fingers and calling people out you should check out Broncomania.


I don't think anybody saw this collapse coming, now all we can do is analyze discuss and hope this mess gets fixed.

I damn sure hope these late season collapses are over and we start playing some strong football cause this finesse shyt hasn't worked for quite awhile

Popps
01-12-2010, 11:49 AM
wasn't this what popps and his crew were preaching we would do this year.............Oops

It's not my "crew," they're my Minions.

Get it right, boy.


Also, I didn't preach that we "would do" that... I said that it's what I hoped would happen. Unfortunately, it didn't. We started out way too strong, then hit a rough patch of difficult games and injuries and never recovered.

That said, until the messy 2nd half of the last game... the team did compete and stayed in games. We made a quality effort against two playoff teams late in the season. That's more than I can say for the embarrassment we saw in San Diego with the division on the line last year.

I'm disappointed with the finish, just like everyone else. But, I see reason for optimism in what we're building.

But, I never promised anything as far as record. In fact, I said our record this year wasn't so important as the kind of 3-phase progress we made, as there was no way we were a SB team, anyway.

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 11:50 AM
I damn sure hope these late season collapses are over and we start playing some strong football cause this finesse shyt hasn't worked for quite awhile

We tried power football all season long, our line couldn't handle it. It worked early on because our line was healthy and we did not have to run outside left every time we tried to run a stretch play. An elite Guard would make this team very very dangerous.

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 11:52 AM
It's not my "crew," they're my Minions.

Get it right, boy.


Also, I didn't preach that we "would do" that... I said that it's what I hoped would happen. Unfortunately, it didn't. We started out way too strong, then hit a rough patch of difficult games and injuries and never recovered.

That said, until the messy 2nd half of the last game... the team did compete and stayed in games. We made a quality effort against two playoff teams late in the season. That's more than I can say for the embarrassment we saw in San Diego with the division on the line last year.

I'm disappointed with the finish, just like everyone else. But, I see reason for optimism in what we're building.

But, I never promised anything as far as record. In fact, I said our record this year wasn't so important as the kind of 3-phase progress we made, as there was no way we were a SB team, anyway.

Don't forget we got embarrassed by the Chiefs late this season. Its not like the game mattered with the way things played out but, we got our asses kicked.

oubronco
01-12-2010, 11:55 AM
It's not my "crew," they're my Minions.

Get it right, boy.


Also, I didn't preach that we "would do" that... I said that it's what I hoped would happen. Unfortunately, it didn't. We started out way too strong, then hit a rough patch of difficult games and injuries and never recovered.

That said, until the messy 2nd half of the last game... the team did compete and stayed in games. We made a quality effort against two playoff teams late in the season. That's more than I can say for the embarrassment we saw in San Diego with the division on the line last year.

I'm disappointed with the finish, just like everyone else. But, I see reason for optimism in what we're building.

But, I never promised anything as far as record. In fact, I said our record this year wasn't so important as the kind of 3-phase progress we made, as there was no way we were a SB team, anyway.

Your right I was just baggin on ya a bit

The thing that bothered me was when we faced a team for the second time we got manhandled for whatever reason

oubronco
01-12-2010, 11:55 AM
We tried power football all season long, our line couldn't handle it. It worked early on because our line was healthy and we did not have to run outside left every time we tried to run a stretch play. An elite Guard would make this team very very dangerous.

Both lines need some bad muthafuggas

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 11:56 AM
If you watch the Chiefs game again we played about just as well, they just didn't make as many mistakes, and we couldn't run the ball.

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 11:57 AM
Both lines need some bad muthafuggas

It's to bad Logan Mankins is going to be Restricted.

oubronco
01-12-2010, 12:00 PM
It's to bad Logan Mankins is going to be Restricted.

He didn't look so good against Baltimore maybe it was one game I don't know but he was getting manhandled pretty good

DivineLegion
01-12-2010, 12:02 PM
He didn't look so good against Baltimore maybe it was one game I don't know but he was getting manhandled pretty good

He's definitely declined in the last two years, but with our supporting cast and his measurables he would be hard pressed not to succeed.

rastaman
01-12-2010, 12:54 PM
You guys do realize that our collapse was due to lack of depth all across the board. We brought in a bunch of veteran stop gaps (and play makers) along with guys to fill voids of 50% of our roster being cut. I think we wont see the same results in year two, and even stronger results in year 3. McDaniels has had one offseason to fill this roster with guys that fit our scheme give him another two years and we will be able to maintain strong starts. As long as Josh doesn't bring in a bunch of street free agents like Engleburger, Winborn, and Vernon Fox....errr never mind.

McD is going to need to change the late season slumps that have taken place in November and December. Its the same pattern. We beat KC, Oak, and SD in Sept and Oct, and manage to lose to them in Nov. and Dec.

OBF1
01-12-2010, 01:06 PM
shanny (4-6)>mc****face (2-8)

I am going to let you in on a secret... it is a great place with alot of Bronco fans


.



.



.


.


.


.


.

www.extremeskins.com

Get the F u KC out if you are butt hurt like the other biotches that have gone away.

DenverBrit
01-12-2010, 01:19 PM
Arguably Shanahan's best coaching job was done with Plummer. He turned the lovable loser into a playoff QB who made the pro bowl.

Highly underrated by those that cast criticisms on Mike's last 10 years.

You can thank Kubiak for that.

RaiderH8r
01-12-2010, 01:23 PM
2002 5-5
2003 5-5
2004 5-5
2005 8-2
2006 With a FRANCHISE QB ERA 4-6
2007 4-6
2008 4-6

One winning finish to last 10 games in his last 7 here in Denver. All losing seasons with franchise QB. Just saying.

And any of those 10 game finishes would have landed this club in the playoffs. 2-8 with 4 losses against the Chiefs, Raiders, and Skins.

Any way you slice it McKid **** the bed in epic fashion.

azbroncfan
01-12-2010, 01:24 PM
The funny and stupid thing about your post is that you are assumed a. that Jake Plummer was any kind of franchise player in 2005, b that Jay Cutler could attain franchise status during just his first FULL season in the NFL.

Your expectations are bull****, but that can be said about many unknowledgable NFL fans. The Denver Bronco fans have been spoiled for a long time. Unfortunately for us, I think we're soon going to be realizing how much in the coming seasons when we get to see how the other half lives.

I expected Cutler to beat a bad 49er team with a 10 pt lead and not throw pick 6's. Cutler was 0-5 in playoff clinching games so I am not really surprised now though.

RaiderH8r
01-12-2010, 01:25 PM
I expected Cutler to beat a bad 49er team with a 10 pt lead and not throw pick 6's. Cutler was 0-5 in playoff clinching games so I am not really surprised now though.

After a 6-0 start Orton couldn't even get himself into position to have a playoff clinching game.

barryr
01-12-2010, 02:24 PM
I had pointed something like this out myself in a thread a couple weeks ago or so. Some are still living like it's 1997 and 1998 and forgetting the last 10 years of Shanahan's coaching record, which includes many late season losses and only 1 playoff win his last 10 years.

Hamrob
01-12-2010, 02:57 PM
Shanny

5-5
5-5
5-5
AFC Championship
Rebuilt Offense

McD

2-8
???

azbroncfan
01-12-2010, 03:32 PM
McD managed to out-do all collapses in just his very first season in Denver. It's easier to win the super bowl than fail like McD did down the stretch.

We're now one of only 3 teams since the AFL/NFL merger (SPANNING 44 YEARS!) to start 6-0, and fail to make the playoffs. We did it in grand fashion too, with a week to spare, losing to a 4-12, and 5-11 team AT home no less.

Sorry guys, bag on Shanny all you want but in 15 years in Denver, Jack McDaniels managed to surpass him in one foul swoop. Not only that, he can't control his locker room and Denver has been the laughing stock of the NFL all season.

Does McD get to blame his assistant coaches and hirer new ones for an excuse like Shanny?

broncocalijohn
01-12-2010, 03:37 PM
Sad case when people are bashing McD and sticking up for Shanny when all those stats are horrible. Only one year where we took off like gangbusters and still got our 1st round bye. This isnt Broncos football like I remembered. Home team stadium sucks compared to Old Mile High. McD failed one year when speaking of collapses. Shanny had more than enough and with a supposed Franchise QB.

bpc
01-12-2010, 03:46 PM
Does McD get to blame his assistant coaches and hirer new ones for an excuse like Shanny?

Maybe. If he led us to a super bowl or two.

Meck77
01-12-2010, 03:49 PM
Sad case when people are bashing McD and sticking up for Shanny when all those stats are horrible. .

I call it the Atlas Syndrome. Some are still in denial.

SureShot
01-12-2010, 03:49 PM
2002 5-5
2003 5-5
2004 5-5
2005 8-2
2006 Without Al Wilson ERA 4-6
2007 4-6
2008 4-6

One winning finish to last 10 games in his last 7 here in Denver. All losing seasons with franchise QB. Just saying.

Fixed

gtown
01-12-2010, 04:31 PM
Last part of the season is all about talent. That stat is telling. Shanny the GM indeed got Shanny the coach fired.

Popps
01-12-2010, 04:40 PM
Last part of the season is all about talent. That stat is telling. Shanny the GM indeed got Shanny the coach fired.

Shanahan was a masterful game-day coach.

Any other coach would have been been a disaster with the talent he had to work with most years.

Problem is, that was his fault.


It was 14 years, folks. We had some great years with him. I love the guy. But life keeps moving, whether or not you want it to.

azbroncfan
01-12-2010, 04:51 PM
[QUOTE]The funny and stupid thing about your post is that you are assumed a. that Jake Plummer was any kind of franchise player in 2005,

Where did I say that?

b that Jay Cutler could attain franchise status during just his first FULL season in the NFL.

Yes I expect to win with whoever is put under center. I knew we could win with Jake, maybe not it all but make the playoffs.

Your expectations are bull****, but that can be said about many unknowledgable NFL fans.

I was just pointing out that you Butler's keep ripping the finish by MCD and the same crap this franchise has put up with for years. That was a brutal of a schedule that we played this year as we have in 10 years.

azbroncfan
01-12-2010, 04:59 PM
And any of those 10 game finishes would have landed this club in the playoffs. 2-8 with 4 losses against the Chiefs, Raiders, and Skins.

Any way you slice it McKid **** the bed in epic fashion.

8-8 is 8-8. 9-7 is 9-7. No playoffs most of the time. If we won against KC it wouldn't of mattered.

CEH
01-12-2010, 06:19 PM
2002 5-5
2003 5-5
2004 5-5
2005 8-2
2006 With a FRANCHISE QB ERA 4-6
2007 4-6
2008 4-6

One winning finish to last 10 games in his last 7 here in Denver. All losing seasons with franchise QB. Just saying.

It's been 43 years since a Broncos team went 2-8 in their last 10 games
Floyd Little was a rookie

Just saying

snowspot66
01-12-2010, 06:43 PM
It's been 43 years since a Broncos team went 2-8 in their last 10 games
Floyd Little was a rookie

Just saying

Yeah well maybe we need to accept the fact that our team right now isn't very talented. We talk about the guys on offense as if they are all super stars but the truth is Clady and Marshall are the closest players to a superstar we have and I think everybody here can still name multiple WR's they would trade Marshall for straight up and not bat an eye. We just don't have the talent.

You guys bash him for going 2-8 in the last ten but you don't bother to mention the fact that we had a real chance to win almost every one of those games. Even the ass beating given by Baltimore we were still a score away pretty late in the game. Considering our talent levels I'm not sure what more you could expect.

RaiderH8r
01-13-2010, 05:59 AM
8-8 is 8-8. 9-7 is 9-7. No playoffs most of the time. If we won against KC it wouldn't of mattered.

Oh well then, since he pissed down his leg against two dog **** teams to render the KC game MOSTLY moot then it must be OK. And the KC game was only moot after the fact so, you know, maybe McKid might have wanted to field a team that at least pretended to be interested in going to the playoffs.

azbroncfan
01-13-2010, 10:05 AM
Oh well then, since he pissed down his leg against two dog **** teams to render the KC game MOSTLY moot then it must be OK. And the KC game was only moot after the fact so, you know, maybe McKid might have wanted to field a team that at least pretended to be interested in going to the playoffs.

How quickly you forget. Shanny did the same thing last two years too against Oakland and KC. Whatever though I am not going to throw MCD under the bus after one year when we put up with several dissappointing finishes and chokes jobs over the past few years with Shanny.

WestFan
01-14-2010, 01:56 AM
How many teams in the NFL have ever started 6-0 btw?

4 this season:

Colts, finished 14-2, #1 AFC seed
Saints, finished 13-3, #1 NFC seed
Vikings, finished 12-4, #2 NFC seed
Broncos, finished 8-8, NO PLAYOFFS


In 2008:

Titans started 6-0, finished 13-3, got the #1 AFC seed


In 2007:

Patriots started 6-0, finished 16-0, got the #1 AFC seed
Colts started 6-0, finished 13-3, got the #2 AFC seed


In 2006:

Bears started 6-0, finished 13-3, got the #1 NFC seed
Colts started 6-0, finished 12-4, got the #2 AFC seed


In 2005:

Colts started 6-0, finished 14-2, got the #1 AFC seed

Usually when you start off 6-0, you win your division, and get a playoff bye.

10 teams have started 6-0 in the last 5 seasons. All have won their division, and gotten a playoff bye, except for one.

The Broncos.

watermock
01-14-2010, 02:15 AM
Oh well then, since he pissed down his leg against two dog **** teams to render the KC game MOSTLY moot then it must be OK. And the KC game was only moot after the fact so, you know, maybe McKid might have wanted to field a team that at least pretended to be interested in going to the playoffs.


Ha!

McDumbass was only interested in benching Marshall and Sheffler.

By the time he took the field, he had allready given up. Pussy Biatch!