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Popps
01-10-2010, 11:23 PM
ENGLEWOOD – Of all the terms to describe the upcoming offseason for the Denver Broncos, don’t forget “complicated.”

Already the team is working on two different free-agency plans – with and without a new collective-bargaining agreement. If there is no new agreement, key players like outside linebacker Elvis Dumervil, receiver Brandon Marshall, tight end Tony Scheffler, quarterback Kyle Orton and guard Chris Kuper will be restricted free agents, not unrestricted as they would have been under the old agreement.

Many teams will be affected by what happens on the labor front in the next few months, but few are watching closer than the Broncos.

“We will have to wait and see,” coach Josh McDaniels said. “It’s certainly a thing that we are going to have to be patient with.”

While Orton and Dumervil might be pricey to keep, their spots with the team seem relatively secure. They both want to return and the organization appears ready to bring them back. The futures of Marshall and Scheffler are much messier. Both were deactivated for the season finale, and while nobody involved ruled out a return, it seems likely both could move on. If Marshall and Scheffler don’t return the Broncos lose two key pieces of their passing attack. Marshall would be particularly tough to replace, considering he caught 68 passes in his past eight games.

“We just want to have the guys that want to be here and play,” Orton said. “I hope that’s them. I hope they want to be here. They’re obviously great football players.”

Many of the Broncos’ issues in the offseason – more big plays on offense, a consistent pass rush from players other than Dumervil, finding eventual successors for the four starters in the secondary who are all older than 30, and beefing up the offensive line to run a power scheme – could be solved by the progress of the 2009 draft class. First-day picks running back Knowshon Moreno, outside linebacker Robert Ayers, cornerback Alphonso Smith and tight end Richard Quinn all got to play as rookies, with mixed results. The Broncos need all of them to have a bigger impact in 2010.

McDaniels said he met with the rookies the day after the season and let them know they aren’t rookies anymore, and more will be asked of them.

“We need to expect them to do some things that maybe we didn’t expect of them this year and they need to expect that of themselves,” McDaniels said.

McDaniels had a tough time answering questions about the Broncos’ plan in free agency, given the labor unrest. Last year Denver mostly targeted second-tier free agents like receiver Jabar Gaffney, running back Correll Buckhalter and defensive tackle Ronald Fields and signed them early in free agency.

Denver’s draft preparation will be different, McDaniels said. He said last year the front office didn’t get a full opportunity to evaluate college players because he was hired in January. This year, the Broncos already have preliminary draft rankings after scouting players during the season.

“That’s something that we didn’t get to last year until late February or early March,” McDaniels said. “We’re months in advance of that. We’ve got a really good idea of what we want to look for and the kind of players we’re looking for.”



Draft

Denver’s only first-round pick is the one it acquired from Chicago in the Jay Cutler trade. The pick will be 10th or 11th, depending on a coin flip with Jacksonville. The Broncos’ first-round pick, 14th overall, was traded to Seattle. Denver also does not have a fifth-round pick.



Free agency

Unrestricted free agents

P Mitch Berger, S Vernon Fox, OT Brandon Gorin, LB Nick Greisen, G Ben Hamilton, G Russ Hochstein, DE Vonnie Holliday, CB Ty Law, WR Brandon Lloyd



Free agents affected by CBA (restricted with no new agreement)

OLB Elvis Dumervil, G Chris Kuper, WR Brandon Marshall, QB Kyle Orton, TE Tony Scheffler, DE Le Kevin Smith



Restricted free agent

K Matt Prater



Exclusive rights free agent

S Josh Barrett



Needs

Receiver: Even if Brandon Marshall returns, the Broncos need more from their receivers. Denver needs to look long and hard at adding a deep threat.
Defensive line: The Broncos’ run defense wore down late in the year. Denver’s 3-4 defense demands top-notch players up front to be successful.
Offensive line: Guard Russ Hochstein’s season-ending knee injury makes the line even thinner. Josh McDaniels will want bigger linemen to run a power scheme.


http://www.gazette.com/sports/unrest-91894-affects-broncos.html

tsiguy96
01-10-2010, 11:37 PM
hope we re-sign lloyd and holliday. hochstein for depth.

brncs_fan
01-10-2010, 11:41 PM
“That’s something that we didn’t get to last year until late February or early March,” McDaniels said. “We’re months in advance of that. We’ve got a really good idea of what we want to look for and the kind of players we’re looking for.”


When did we start looking?

tsiguy96
01-10-2010, 11:42 PM
When did we start looking?

Mcd didnt get hired until January, he had to assemble a staff and get settled in, then his staff had to start late on the draft prospects. This year, his staff has been working for a few months already.

TheDave
01-10-2010, 11:43 PM
“That’s something that we didn’t get to last year until late February or early March,” McDaniels said. “We’re months in advance of that. We’ve got a really good idea of what we want to look for and the kind of players we’re looking for.”


Not trying to derail this thread, but... if they were so behind the 8 ball last year, why spend this years 1st on a player they did not scout as thouroghly as they wanted to?

Just doesn't make sense.

brncs_fan
01-10-2010, 11:44 PM
Mcd didnt get hired until January, he had to assemble a staff and get settled in, then his staff had to start late on the draft prospects. This year, his staff has been working for a few months already.

I get the part about last year and that is perfectly understandable. I was wondering more about how much time he was devoting to it this year while we were back-sliding out of the playoffs.

tsiguy96
01-10-2010, 11:44 PM
Not trying to derail this thread, but... if they were so behind the 8 ball last year, why spend this years 1st on a player they did not scout as thouroghly as they wanted to?

Just doesn't make sense.

i think everyone is STILL questioning the alphonso smith trade. they obviously saw something they liked, mcd talked preseason about a player either having ballhawk abilities or he doesnt, and alphonso had a ton of INT in college. not transferring over yet, but hope is clearly not all lost.

tsiguy96
01-10-2010, 11:46 PM
I get the part about last year and that is perfectly understandable. I was wondering more about how much time he was devoting to it this year while we were back-sliding out of the playoffs.

i highly, highly doubt mcd gets involved in any scouting until its time for him to do so. im sure the last few months its been the scouting department getting reports on players and narrowing down their list of prospects, dont need him to do that.

DBroncos4life
01-10-2010, 11:47 PM
Not trying to derail this thread, but... if they were so behind the 8 ball last year, why spend this years 1st on a player they did not scout as thouroghly as they wanted to?

Just doesn't make sense.

I'm sorry TheDave we just can't give you a super fan card at this time. It has come to our attention that you question things.

TheDave
01-10-2010, 11:48 PM
I get the part about last year and that is perfectly understandable. I was wondering more about how much time he was devoting to it this year while we were back-sliding out of the playoffs.

0... Our head coach isn't scouting anyone during the season.

brncs_fan
01-10-2010, 11:50 PM
i highly, highly doubt mcd gets involved in any scouting until its time for him to do so. im sure the last few months its been the scouting department getting reports on players and narrowing down their list of prospects, dont need him to do that.

So, where there no scouts in Denver to do that kind of work for him last year? Not trying to get **** started but there are suddenly a lot of questions in my head about the process, especially since I don't know much about it.

TheDave
01-10-2010, 11:52 PM
I'm sorry TheDave we just can't give you a super fan card at this time. It has come to our attention that you question things.

I know... I suck...

Unfortunately, amongst a virtual cornucopia of head scratchers over the last year that one just doesn't make sense... on any level.

DBroncos4life
01-10-2010, 11:53 PM
0... Our head coach isn't scouting anyone during the season.

Didn't he fire the everyone in the scouting department? I'm pretty sure that move happened when he fired the GM.

TheDave
01-10-2010, 11:59 PM
Didn't he fire the everyone in the scouting department? I'm pretty sure that move happened when he fired the GM.

I'm not sure about the whole scouting department but they did get rid of both Goodmans in mid february...

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:00 AM
Not trying to derail this thread, but... if they were so behind the 8 ball last year, why spend this years 1st on a player they did not scout as thouroghly as they wanted to?

Just doesn't make sense.

They apparently really liked the kid. He was projected as the best CB in the draft if he was an inch taller. He was a ballhawk in college and looked to be an instant contributor in special teams.

He had a ho-hum first season, as do many rookies. I just can't understand why people want to rush to put these kids in the grave so ****ing quickly.

Beyond that, Dave... we sat through a decade of some of the worst drafting and FA moves in the league. I love how suddenly... the Mopey Mafia is demanding perfection out of these drafts... INSTANTLY.

We couldn't hit the side of a ****ing barn with 10 draft picks every year for a decade, but McDaniels is supposed to draft an all-pro team with his first picks.

Honestly... how many top-flight players did we draft in 10 years?

Al Wilson... Portis... who the **** else? Where do these insane demands for instant draft perfection come from?

Let these kids play in the system and develop before you **** all over them.

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:01 AM
I'm not sure about the whole scouting department but they did get rid of both Goodmans in mid february...

Yea, well... big ****.

Where are the Goodmans working now?

They landed a few good players, one with a first round pick... the others with 2nd round picks. A few of these guys were also major head cases.

Once again, 10 years with a few good draft picks, and suddenly we're supposed to knock every pick out of the park.

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:03 AM
And while we're patting the Goodmans on the ass, why don't we ask them why their solution to our worst defense in the league was Boss Bailey, Marlon McCree and Niko Outoftheleagueis.

Then, ask them why our defense was so ****ty in the first place.

bpc
01-11-2010, 12:05 AM
Yea, well... big ****.

Where are the Goodmans working now?

They landed a few good players, one with a first round pick... the others with 2nd round picks. A few of these guys were also major head cases.

Once again, 10 years with a few good draft picks, and suddenly we're supposed to knock every pick out of the park.

Hmmmm... don't think anybody was talking bad about anybody just talking timelines, yet Popps wastes no time throwing another portion of the last regime under the bus. Itchy trigger finger? Ya know, gotta protect that agenda at every turn.

TheDave
01-11-2010, 12:07 AM
They apparently really liked the kid. He was projected as the best CB in the draft if he was an inch taller. He was a ballhawk in college and looked to be an instant contributor in special teams.

He had a ho-hum first season, as do many rookies. I just can't understand why people want to rush to put these kids in the grave so ****ing quickly.

Beyond that, Dave... we sat through a decade of some of the worst drafting and FA moves in the league. I love how suddenly... the Mopey Mafia is demanding perfection out of these drafts... INSTANTLY.

We couldn't hit the side of a ****ing barn with 10 draft picks every year for a decade, but McDaniels is supposed to draft an all-pro team with his first picks.

Honestly... how many top-flight players did we draft in 10 years?

Al Wilson... Portis... who the **** else? Where do these insane demands for instant draft perfection come from?

Let these kids play in the system and develop before you **** all over them.

Oh ****... cut the name calling will ya'.

I asked a legit question that was bolded in the article you posted. That isn't "****ting all over them" nor "putting them in the grave". Thats simply questioning one (not all of them) move in light of the information you posted. No where did I mention Moreno, Ayers, McBath, etc.

Seriously man, get a grip...

DBroncos4life
01-11-2010, 12:07 AM
I'm not sure about the whole scouting department but they did get rid of both Goodmans in mid february...

I think it was everyone. There was others along with the Goodmans. Taco really needs a underground sub forum though. The heat is getting to intense and I wouldn't want to run anymore posters off with my non believing.

brncs_fan
01-11-2010, 12:09 AM
I think it was everyone. There was others along with the Goodmans.

That would make more sense with what the article is saying. The way it is stated it makes it seem that they were basically starting from scratch.

TheDave
01-11-2010, 12:09 AM
And while we're patting the Goodmans on the ass, why don't we ask them why their solution to our worst defense in the league was Boss Bailey, Marlon McCree and Niko Outoftheleagueis.

Then, ask them why our defense was so ****ty in the first place.

Again... WTF are you talking about?

I was asked a question and said

I'm not sure about the whole scouting department but they did get rid of both Goodmans in mid february...

Now, how exactly is that "patting them on the ass"?

Goddamn your a cranky old ****...

DBroncos4life
01-11-2010, 12:10 AM
Oh ****... cut the name calling will ya'.

I asked a legit question that was bolded in the article you posted. That isn't "****ting all over them" nor "putting them in the grave". Thats simply questioning one (not all of them) move in light of the information you posted. No where did I mention Moreno, Ayers, McBath, etc.

Seriously man, get a grip...

He left out Marshall, Doom, and Clady Ha!

TheDave
01-11-2010, 12:11 AM
I think it was everyone. There was others along with the Goodmans. Taco really needs a underground sub forum though. The heat is getting to intense and I wouldn't want to run anymore posters off with my non believing.

With meltdowns like this, I'm starting to wonder if Popps and TSI are actually the same guy.

Oh and if anyone blames you for running someone off... just Blame it on TheRev. ;D

DBroncos4life
01-11-2010, 12:12 AM
That would make more sense with what the article is saying. The way it is stated it makes it seem that they were basically starting from scratch.

SoCal and I both pointed it out when it happened. I know we went into the draft with people that had to be working around the clock to make up a draft board.

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:12 AM
Oh ****... cut the name calling will ya'.

I asked a legit question that was bolded in the article you posted. That isn't "****ting all over them" nor "putting them in the grave". Thats simply questioning one (not all of them) move in light of the information you posted. No where did I mention Moreno, Ayers, McBath, etc.

Seriously man, get a grip...

I'm gripped, brother... and I don't see where I called you a name.

But, I'm passionate about my Broncos. Sorry. Just not down with the "In When They Win" bunch around here.

I just think the Smith thing is WAY blown out of hand. We've got a guy named Jarvis Moss on our roster (barely) that none of you folks seem to be bitching about.

Where's the outrage about him?

How about Marcus Thomas and his horrible play late in the season?

Why the need to blow the Smith story up to such atmospheric levels?

The answer is obviously that it makes the staff look inept. It was fine for Shanahan to swing and miss in the first 2 rounds for 10 years, but McDaniels picks a guy at the top of the first who isn't a Pro Bowler yet, and we're in a panic.

Honestly, it's a draft pick. He may work out, he may not. We traded draft slots for him. It happens. If we picked 15th this year with that pick, we may have missed on that. You just never know. (Only we would have paid more.)

I realize every pick can't be George Foster, Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks or Marcus Nash... but such is life.

DBroncos4life
01-11-2010, 12:13 AM
With meltdowns like this, I'm starting to wonder if Popps and TSI are actually the same guy.

Oh and if anyone blames you for running someone off... just Blame it on TheRev. ;D

I have thought that for a long time now. :rofl:

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:15 AM
He left out Marshall, Doom, and Clady Ha!

No I didn't. I said one was a first rounder (Clady) and we landed a couple other valuable players.

We also went 10 years and only drafted a couple of guys anyone could call an impact player.

So, drafts are what they are... a crap-shoot. Grading this class right now is silly, and expecting something in the first year that Shanahan and Co. could barely do over 10 years is ridiculous.

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:17 AM
With meltdowns like this, I'm starting to wonder if Popps and TSI are actually the same guy.

Oh and if anyone blames you for running someone off... just Blame it on TheRev. ;D

Wait, now you want to call names, Dave?

Thought you just said we were having a debate?

Which is it, kid? Pick one, and I'm game... either way.

I apologize for having a little enthusiasm about my team. I know you're above that... right, Cool?

bpc
01-11-2010, 12:17 AM
I'm gripped, brother... and I don't see where I called you a name.

But, I'm passionate about my Broncos. Sorry. Just not down with the "In When They Win" bunch around here.

I just think the Smith thing is WAY blown out of hand. We've got a guy named Jarvis Moss on our roster (barely) that none of you folks seem to be b****ing about.

Where's the outrage about him?

How about Marcus Thomas and his horrible play late in the season?

Why the need to blow the Smith story up to such atmospheric levels?

The answer is obviously that it makes the staff look inept. It was fine for Shanahan to swing and miss in the first 2 rounds for 10 years, but McDaniels picks a guy at the top of the first who isn't a Pro Bowler yet, and we're in a panic.

Honestly, it's a draft pick. He may work out, he may not. We traded draft slots for him. It happens. If we picked 15th this year with that pick, we may have missed on that. You just never know. (Only we would have paid more.)

I realize every pick can't be George Foster, Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks or Marcus Nash... but such is life.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/agenda" target="_blank"><img src="http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b372/BuffyTheFundieSlayer/Pics/TGA/GayAgenda.jpg" border="0" alt="agenda Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

TheDave
01-11-2010, 12:18 AM
I'm gripped, brother... and I don't see where I called you a name.

But, I'm passionate about my Broncos. Sorry. Just not down with the "In When They Win" bunch around here.

I just think the Smith thing is WAY blown out of hand. We've got a guy named Jarvis Moss on our roster (barely) that none of you folks seem to be b****ing about.

Where's the outrage about him?

How about Marcus Thomas and his horrible play late in the season?

Why the need to blow the Smith story up to such atmospheric levels?

The answer is obviously that it makes the staff look inept. It was fine for Shanahan to swing and miss in the first 2 rounds for 10 years, but McDaniels picks a guy at the top of the first who isn't a Pro Bowler yet, and we're in a panic.

Honestly, it's a draft pick. He may work out, he may not. We traded draft slots for him. It happens. If we picked 15th this year with that pick, we may have missed on that. You just never know. (Only we would have paid more.)

I realize every pick can't be George Foster, Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks or Marcus Nash... but such is life.

So let me get this straight, if you post a thread and bold something that shines a light on the A. Smith trade I should first run around and bitch about something that happened 3+ years ago before I discuss your article?

You are so busy trying to draw lines in the sand you make no sense...

TheDave
01-11-2010, 12:18 AM
Wait, now you want to call names, Dave?

Thought you just said we were having a debate?

Which is it, kid? Pick one, and I'm game... either way.

I apologize for having a little enthusiasm about my team. I know you're above that... right, Cool?

Sorry didn't mean to call you TSIGUY... that was over the line.

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:19 AM
[QUOTE=bpc;2712415]

Uh oh... it's officially a Mopey Mafia Menage Trois.

Break out the black veils, lipstick, wine coolers and dead roses.

brncs_fan
01-11-2010, 12:20 AM
Sorry didn't mean to call you TSIGUY... that was over the line.

Homewrecker.

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:20 AM
Sorry didn't mean to call you TSIGUY... that was over the line.

It's cool, man. Just funny when one post says no name-calling, and the next you bust out the smack.

You're all bug-a-boo. I get it.

They do make medication. I'm just sayin'...

DBroncos4life
01-11-2010, 12:24 AM
No I didn't. I said one was a first rounder (Clady) and we landed a couple other valuable players.

We also went 10 years and only drafted a couple of guys anyone could call an impact player.

So, drafts are what they are... a crap-shoot. Grading this class right now is silly, and expecting something in the first year that Shanahan and Co. could barely do over 10 years is ridiculous.

They are a crap shoot but when Shanahan failed it is a big deal. Just like his failure at the end at his last year here. You blame Shanahan for failures and let McD slide for the samething. The punishment should be the same for the same crime.

TheDave
01-11-2010, 12:24 AM
It's cool, man. Just funny when one post says no name-calling, and the next you bust out the smack.

You're all bug-a-boo. I get it.

They do make medication. I'm just sayin'...

bug-a-boo ???

Sorry my cranky old **** translator is busted... ;)

DBroncos4life
01-11-2010, 12:28 AM
bug-a-boo ???

Sorry my cranky old **** translator is busted... ;)

I think he just called you a type of single story house.... :P

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:28 AM
bug-a-boo ???

Sorry my cranky old **** translator is busted... ;)

Thought you'd like that one. Mr. Show reference.

And old? Aren't you like 73 or something?

Anyway, I'm going to get on board with you, man. You're right. Being miserable and pessimistic about this team for the rest of time is the way to work it. Not sure what I was thinking giving any of these guys a chance.




http://nitespyder.com/FatGothKid.jpg

Fat goth kid says...


"Be angry like TheDave. Things are bad."

bpc
01-11-2010, 12:29 AM
People in LA are crazy looking. Wow.

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:31 AM
People in LA are crazy looking. Wow.



Only two things come from Lincoln, CA....

brncs_fan
01-11-2010, 12:32 AM
I seriously thought that was a woman for a second.

DBroncos4life
01-11-2010, 12:32 AM
People in LA are crazy looking. Wow.

She is going to be hot once she shaves the beard and drops about 200 pounds. I would never date in LA though, one day they can go to bed looking like that and the next day look like Megan Fox. I hope someday they do something with thumbs though. ;D

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:34 AM
I seriously thought that was a woman for a second.

It's mad, whatever it is.

bpc
01-11-2010, 12:35 AM
Ha ha. I like my family atmosphere up here in the foothills of the Sierra's. Better to navigate around the cess pools in California than be directly associated with them. Plus, the snow is much better in Tahoe.

I like that you didn't decline the statement either. ;)

brncs_fan
01-11-2010, 12:36 AM
Isn't it nice to know that we as Bronco fans can still rally around pictures of really weird looking people?

I feel a group hug and feeling sharing session coming on.

TheDave
01-11-2010, 12:37 AM
Thought you'd like that one. Mr. Show reference.

And old? Aren't you like 73 or something?

Anyway, I'm going to get on board with you, man. You're right. Being miserable and pessimistic about this team for the rest of time is the way to work it. Not sure what I was thinking giving any of these guys a chance.


Fat goth kid says...


"Be angry like TheDave. Things are bad."


no seriously what is a "bug a boo"... I'm sure it had some meaning back in the 30's.

But seriously bro, you started this pissing contest (as usual). Now would you care to tell us questioning types why they would chose to spend an extra future pick on a kid they admitedly did not scout as well as they would have liked to? You did post the article... hell you even highlighted the part I'm talking about.

Now in case that qustion got your haggels up again keep in mind I did not "**** all over" the rest of our draft. Nor did I "Pat the goodmans on the ass". And for good measure I am unhappy with several of Shanny's draft busts from the past.

Now that tha's clear how about we get back on topic. :thumbs:

montrose
01-11-2010, 12:38 AM
Interesting article, glad to hear the team has multiple plans. Assuming their is no new deal, I still wouldn't be stunned if the RFAs (sans Scheffler) are all back on their tenders.

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:39 AM
Ha ha. I like my family atmosphere up here in the foothills of the Sierra's. Better to navigate around the cess pools in California than be directly associated with them. Plus, the snow is much better in Tahoe.

I like that you didn't decline the statement either. ;)

Remember junior, I've lived in CA for 20 years. I know it well. Northern CA? Been there, done that.

bpc
01-11-2010, 12:39 AM
Let me just say that I would much rather have Joe Haden on this roster come April, than Alphonso Smith. Just me but I'll take the ballhawking, speedy CB with height for $600 Alex.

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:40 AM
Interesting article, glad to hear the team has multiple plans. Assuming their is no new deal, I still wouldn't be stunned if the RFAs (sans Scheffler) are all back on their tenders.

Dude, don't come in here talking football. I'm in the middle of a rip-session on the Widows and enjoying myself.

:yayaya:

TheDave
01-11-2010, 12:42 AM
Let me just say that I would much rather have Joe Haden on this roster come April, than Alphonso Smith. Just me but I'll take the ballhawking, speedy CB with height for $600 Alex.

I don't know anything about Haden except that he will most likely be there at #14... Still would't pick a corner even if we had that pick.

Front 7 or maybe a reach for Ilpuati (sp?)

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:42 AM
In all seriousness though Montrose... I really don't think the average fan realizes what a ****-mess this could be if they don't work out a deal. We'll be stuck with guys we don't necessarily want, and won't be able to get guys we do. Draft picks will be at a premium with FA's being thin, and so teams may be willing to give up less of them for restricted FA's.

Unless I'm just looking at all of this wrong, it's really got the potential to be a bummer.

I like the draft, but I'm a free-agency nut. I love watching the player movement, and I'm a big believer in building through FA. (Both.) It'll kill a lot of off-season fun for us all if 3/4ths of the pool dries up, not to mention making improving ourselves more challenging.

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:44 AM
People were ****ting bricks about Smith in training camp. I think the kid just lost his confidence early on, and never played like he was capable of. I don't think the kinds of skills he possesses just go away, though.

I expect a couple of our guys to make big leaps next season. We'll see.

TheDave
01-11-2010, 12:47 AM
Interesting article, glad to hear the team has multiple plans. Assuming their is no new deal, I still wouldn't be stunned if the RFAs (sans Scheffler) are all back on their tenders.

I think that multiple plan thing is a PR game... From everything I've read the owners are pushing for a lock out in 2011.

I'm not sure why, but the initial parameters they sent out are not something you start a negotisation with.

bpc
01-11-2010, 12:48 AM
Remember junior, I've lived in CA for 20 years. I know it well. Northern CA? Been there, done that.

I'm sorry. Been to Socal a bunch of times... have yet to see what the draw is.

I like my fresh lakes, clean water, soft powder, and outdoors activities. LA? The only good thing they get down there is our toilet water since they keep pandering for us to let more and more run off for their sustenance. Guess it's better than whatever they have right now though.

bpc
01-11-2010, 12:51 AM
I don't know anything about Haden except that he will most likely be there at #14... Still would't pick a corner even if we had that pick.

Front 7 or maybe a reach for Ilpuati (sp?)

CB is going to be staring us straight in the face after this season. Goodman and Champ are both going to be 32. We still don't even know what we got with Alphonso Smith. He might be a career slot CB. Even in that role, he got beat out by a CB wrenched out of retirment and has a pegleg.

Broncos_OTM
01-11-2010, 12:54 AM
And while we're patting the Goodmans on the ass, why don't we ask them why their solution to our worst defense in the league was Boss Bailey, Marlon McCree and Niko Outoftheleagueis.

Then, ask them why our defense was so ****ty in the first place.

Just to be fair i dont know how involved the goodmans were involved in FA scouting. I know the new regime clearly defines both.

I will not put to much on MCD for this last draft although it was super important having two first rounders and all. I just find it mind boggeling that if they lacked so much scouting film on guys they just didnt trade out of the first, or trade some of our picks for established vets.

MCD gets a pass this last draft. This is going to be a big year for MCD. i have said from the beging he gets two years to atleast turn this ship around.

that and i hope he has more then a hundred or so guys scouted this year.

TheDave
01-11-2010, 12:55 AM
CB is going to be staring us straight in the face after this season. Goodman and Champ are both going to be 32. We still don't even know what we got with Alphonso Smith. He might be a career slot CB. Even in that role, he got beat out by a CB wrenched out of retirment and has a pegleg.

and a UDFA...

But, as far as the corners that can actually play... I've seen too many teams make up for sub par corners with a superior front 7. Never the other way around (see broncos 2000-2009). I would gladly go to war with a lot more talent in the front 7 (especially on the lines) and a 33 year old champ and goody.

Popps
01-11-2010, 01:01 AM
I'm sorry. Been to Socal a bunch of times... have yet to see what the draw is.

I like my fresh lakes, clean water, soft powder, and outdoors activities. LA? The only good thing they get down there is our toilet water since they keep pandering for us to let more and more run off for their sustenance. Guess it's better than whatever they have right now though.

Oh, don't get me wrong... if not for the industry, I'd probably be elsewhere. But, there are a lot of attractions down here, as well.

As for powder, I can get to the cabin in Big Bear in about 2 hours, or I can surf in under an hour drive. No problem, there.

But, as Jim Rome always points out... the only ones worried about a NoCal v. SoCal debate are people up there. People down here don't have time for it.

Personally, I've done both. Both have pros and cons.

Popps
01-11-2010, 01:04 AM
Just to be fair i dont know how involved the goodmans were involved in FA scouting. I know the new regime clearly defines both.

I will not put to much on MCD for this last draft although it was super important having two first rounders and all. I just find it mind boggeling that if they lacked so much scouting film on guys they just didnt trade out of the first, or trade some of our picks for established vets.

MCD gets a pass this last draft. This is going to be a big year for MCD. i have said from the beging he gets two years to atleast turn this ship around.

that and i hope he has more then a hundred or so guys scouted this year.

Well, that's the million dollar question. No one really knows how involved anyone was under Shanahan's watch. I think we all sort of assume we know, but few really do.

As for McDaniels' draft... I think there will be hits and misses. I think strategically, he did some very smart things. I happen to love the Quinn pick, as hated as it is around here. (Without much reason.)

I think Moreno will be productive for us. Looks like one or both of the safeties will contribute down the road.

I think the jury is out on Ayers. I love the idea of him, and what he showed his senior season.

But, we just need a lot more time to be sure.

bpc
01-11-2010, 01:10 AM
Oh, don't get me wrong... if not for the industry, I'd probably be elsewhere. But, there are a lot of attractions down here, as well.

As for powder, I can get to the cabin in Big Bear in about 2 hours, or I can surf in under an hour drive. No problem, there.

But, as Jim Rome always points out... the only ones worried about a NoCal v. SoCal debate are people up there. People down here don't have time for it.

Personally, I've done both. Both have pros and cons.

I always say, when in doubt, go the family route. NorCal is perfect for me on that front. If only we could export Oakland down south, everything would be perfect.

As for surfing, once you're raised in Hawaii and that's your norm, it's hard to settle for what's in California, North or South. Everything else is junk.

SureShot
01-11-2010, 01:11 AM
Strange, I remember Popps ****ting on drafts pretty regularly back in the day. I wonder what changed? Was it because it heavily featured guys in the trenches that he would consistanly bitch about? No, it was pretty much skill players except for waste of a second rounder on a blocking TE...hmmmm.

bpc
01-11-2010, 01:16 AM
and a UDFA...

But, as far as the corners that can actually play... I've seen too many teams make up for sub par corners with a superior front 7. Never the other way around (see broncos 2000-2009). I would gladly go to war with a lot more talent in the front 7 (especially on the lines) and a 33 year old champ and goody.

It can go both ways but I feel like the reason teams would go to a 3-4 is because it's easier to produce a pass rush without having to have the premium guys like Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, etc.

Honestly it's neither here or there. The future isn't that far away from having a Lenny Walls or a Herndon at CB for us and we saw how that worked out for us. In this league now, with all the spread formations we're seeing, that's asking for defensive suicide. We need to and should be looking very closely at CB.

The problem is we have holes across the board.

BroncoMan4ever
01-11-2010, 02:44 AM
When did we start looking?

think about it. he got here in January and spent the rest of January filling out his staff. February came and he and his staff were in the process of filtering out what players should remain in Denver and which should be tossed aside. once that was done they got around to looking at the needs of the team. meaning they didn't begin to take a good hard look at the draft or FA until the staff was in place, old garbage was dumped and the remaining team was evaluated. by then it was at least late February early March.

fontaine
01-11-2010, 03:26 AM
think about it. he got here in January and spent the rest of January filling out his staff. February came and he and his staff were in the process of filtering out what players should remain in Denver and which should be tossed aside. once that was done they got around to looking at the needs of the team. meaning they didn't begin to take a good hard look at the draft or FA until the staff was in place, old garbage was dumped and the remaining team was evaluated. by then it was at least late February early March.

With the kind of roster turnover including assistancts etc, at least half of the league finds itself in the same position.

It shouldn't be an excuse because it's pretty much the norm around the league.

UberBroncoMan
01-11-2010, 04:04 AM
Man does the off-season make me laugh.

Broncoman13
01-11-2010, 05:41 AM
Not trying to derail this thread, but... if they were so behind the 8 ball last year, why spend this years 1st on a player they did not scout as thouroghly as they wanted to?

Just doesn't make sense.

That is exactly what I said the day he had the press conf... Okay, so you don't have much time to prepare for the draft. YOu don't know what you need on your team position wise nor are you very familiar with the players in the draft and you give away a #1 draft pick??? REally? And it really doesn't help that it was Alphonso Smith. That is killing him right now.

azbroncfan
01-11-2010, 05:41 AM
And while we're patting the Goodmans on the ass, why don't we ask them why their solution to our worst defense in the league was Boss Bailey, Marlon McCree and Niko Outoftheleagueis.

Then, ask them why our defense was so ****ty in the first place.

Don't forget about the trade one bust for another that landed the great John Engelberger.

Broncoman13
01-11-2010, 05:50 AM
and a UDFA...

But, as far as the corners that can actually play... I've seen too many teams make up for sub par corners with a superior front 7. Never the other way around (see broncos 2000-2009). I would gladly go to war with a lot more talent in the front 7 (especially on the lines) and a 33 year old champ and goody.

Yup, look at teams like the Jets, Vikings, and Cowboys. They have nothing at CB... oops. Wait.

But more to your point, I think Goodman and Champ behind a stronger front 7 would be very similar to what the Jets, Vikings, and Cowboys have. The main thing we need is to get a little bigger on the line. And then probably find another ILB. I like DJ Williams, he's a stat collector, but not a play maker. Wouldn't mind Rolando McClain at'tall. Another guy that could have a huge impact on our defense is Eric Berry. I know we have some young studs coming up in the near future. Loved what I was seeing out of McBath. Bruton looks to be a player as well. But Eric Berry will have a Ed Reed, Troy Palamalu, Darren Sharper like affect on a defense. Always around the ball and the ultimate play maker. You want to talk about light and day defenses. Look at the Steelers and Ravens with and without their star safeties. Both have very good front sevens, but without their safeties they are still mediocre. With their safeties they are capable of making Tom Brady throw 3 or 4 INTs in a postseason game in his house. Huge difference.

WolfpackGuy
01-11-2010, 05:59 AM
“That’s something that we didn’t get to last year until late February or early March..."

???

He was too busy trying to get Cassel.

Drek
01-11-2010, 08:55 AM
Not trying to derail this thread, but... if they were so behind the 8 ball last year, why spend this years 1st on a player they did not scout as thouroghly as they wanted to?

Just doesn't make sense.

I highly doubt they didn't scout the individuals as thoroughly as they wanted.

This is likely the reason why McDaniels had such a small draft board last year. Instead of doing a mediocre job on 400 kids they chose to do a good job scouting around 100.

Of course a bit of logical thought would lead one to that conclusion, but don't let something like that get in the way of expressing your distaste for this current organization.

Didn't he fire the everyone in the scouting department? I'm pretty sure that move happened when he fired the GM.
There's this crazy web site called www.denverbroncos.com that just so happens to list the team's staff. If you would have taken all of five minutes to look on there you'd have seen that all but one of the regional scouts are pre-McDaniels employees (one is a pre-Shanahan, Scott Distenfano has been with the Broncos for 27 years). They also retained long time scout Cornell Green as a consultant.

In terms of pro personnel scouting they've only changed one person, director of pro personell, now filled by Kevin Kidd.

So they've changed 4 out of 14 scouting positions and instead of having the three headed monster that was Goodman, Goodman, and Xanders they've now moved to a single GM (Xanders) who coordinates the FO himself.

McDman
01-11-2010, 09:10 AM
hope we re-sign lloyd and holliday. hochstein for depth.

That's exactly what I thought.

Holliday was a great signing. He came in and did what he was asked to in limited playing time.

TheDave
01-11-2010, 09:12 AM
I highly doubt they didn't scout the individuals as thoroughly as they wanted.

This is likely the reason why McDaniels had such a small draft board last year. Instead of doing a mediocre job on 400 kids they chose to do a good job scouting around 100.

Of course a bit of logical thought would lead one to that conclusion, but don't let something like that get in the way of expressing your distaste for this current organization.




Boo Hoo... Where's that "leave Britney alone" video when you need it?

No matter how you want to spin this they admitted their research was limited by time, resources (staff), and knowledge of the current roster. In that case you don't leverage yourself in the way they did it. Many of us questioned this pick when it happened and it continues to look questionable.

See this is how things work for me... when they do well I applaud them, when they do poorly I criticize them. Currently this move deserves criticism.

Of course a bit of logical thought would lead one to that conclusion, but don't let something like that get in the way of expressing your blind loyalty for this current organization.

Cito Pelon
01-11-2010, 09:17 AM
I think it was everyone. There was others along with the Goodmans. Taco really needs a underground sub forum though. The heat is getting to intense and I wouldn't want to run anymore posters off with my non believing.

Oh, they really cleaned house. They did keep one Goodman out of the three IIRC. We'll just have to see it pans out. And wait to see how the 2009 draft class pans out.

ludo21
01-11-2010, 09:18 AM
The jury is still out on Smith, but the fact is you dont normally waste that pick a year in advance when you havent scouted that class yet as Mcd said they had not.

Cito Pelon
01-11-2010, 09:26 AM
no seriously what is a "bug a boo"... I'm sure it had some meaning back in the 30's.

But seriously bro, you started this pissing contest (as usual). Now would you care to tell us questioning types why they would chose to spend an extra future pick on a kid they admitedly did not scout as well as they would have liked to? You did post the article... hell you even highlighted the part I'm talking about.

Now in case that qustion got your haggels up again keep in mind I did not "**** all over" the rest of our draft. Nor did I "Pat the goodmans on the ass". And for good measure I am unhappy with several of Shanny's draft busts from the past.

Now that tha's clear how about we get back on topic. :thumbs:

You question what a bugaboo is, so I have to ask you WTF is "got your haggels up"? WTF is a 'haggels'?

TheDave
01-11-2010, 09:29 AM
You question what a bugaboo is, so I have to ask you WTF is "got your haggels up"? WTF is a 'haggels'?

It was late... hackles.

gyldenlove
01-11-2010, 09:35 AM
They apparently really liked the kid. He was projected as the best CB in the draft if he was an inch taller. He was a ballhawk in college and looked to be an instant contributor in special teams.

He had a ho-hum first season, as do many rookies. I just can't understand why people want to rush to put these kids in the grave so ****ing quickly.

Beyond that, Dave... we sat through a decade of some of the worst drafting and FA moves in the league. I love how suddenly... the Mopey Mafia is demanding perfection out of these drafts... INSTANTLY.

We couldn't hit the side of a ****ing barn with 10 draft picks every year for a decade, but McDaniels is supposed to draft an all-pro team with his first picks.

Honestly... how many top-flight players did we draft in 10 years?

Al Wilson... Portis... who the **** else? Where do these insane demands for instant draft perfection come from?

Let these kids play in the system and develop before you **** all over them.

If he was 3 inches taller and 0.3 seconds faster in the 40 yard dash, Smith is unfortunately the most deadly combination of slow and small you will ever see.

Ho-hum? since when did that become a pseudonym for crappy? We are talking about a guy who had so much success he was pushed for playing time by a guy who got cut and not signed by another team, got demoted behind a 35 year old street free agent and a midseason practice squad signee. If that is ho-hum I wouldn't want to see what you think is a bad season...

Mcdaniels wasn't supposed to draft an all-pro team, but nice strawman argument there. But it would have been nice if he had gotten a contributor - you know someone who could maybe register a sack or maybe even play in a rotation role. The only player we drafted who made any impact was a star RB who failed to reach 100 yards in a game, here is a list of rookie RBs who had at least one 100 yard rushing game this year:

Beanie Wells
Arian Foster
Shonn Greene
Bernard Scott

Shanahan got fired largely because of his personnel decisions, so shouldn't we expect that whoever replaced him would do better? in fact shouldn't be a requirement that you are better than the guy you replaced - if not then we are paying Shanahan 14 mill for no reason and Mcdaniels however many mill for even less of a reason.

Mcdaniels has owned up and said he wasn't prepared enough for the draft last year, unfortunately it cost us a few picks this year when he would have been prepared, but be that as it may, why can't you own up and face that your messiah has let you down with his first draft? Is your selfworth as a Bronco fan really that tied up in how Mcdaniels does?

Cito Pelon
01-11-2010, 09:38 AM
I think that multiple plan thing is a PR game... From everything I've read the owners are pushing for a lock out in 2011.

I'm not sure why, but the initial parameters they sent out are not something you start a negotisation with.

To me, the trouble with those initial parameters is the owners are trying to turn the clock back.

Look at the current CBA - the owners gave more than they wanted to back in 2004 or whenever it was signed in order to avoid a lockout or walkout. By that I mean the 60% of revenue guaranteed with a minimum payroll that had to be distributed to the players.

Back to "initial parameters". I bet the owners will be willing to keep the current structure in almost everything, but they want a rookie salary cap of some kind. I think that's fair for all parties and I hope something like that will be agreed upon.

TheDave
01-11-2010, 09:42 AM
To me, the trouble with those initial parameters is the owners are trying to turn the clock back.

Look at the current CBA - the owners gave more than they wanted to back in 2004 or whenever it was signed in order to avoid a lockout or walkout. By that I mean the 60% of revenue guaranteed with a minimum payroll that had to be distributed to the players.

Back to "initial parameters". I bet the owners will be willing to keep the current structure in almost everything, but they want a rookie salary cap of some kind. I think that's fair for all parties and I hope something like that will be agreed upon.

that's why I think they are pushing for a lock-out... If they really wanted something acomplished before March they would not try and reduce salaries by as much as they are.

From the looks of things, I doubt we see a full season in 2011.

missingnumber7
01-11-2010, 09:43 AM
I think its funny...at the beginning of the season all players were talking about was how big a pay day it was going to be with out a Salary Cap. Media said it would turn into a situation similar to baseball. And it may still, but in the end I think that Owners are going to try to drive salaries down. But the biggest losers in the end are going to be us as fans. Especially if there is no football in 2011 which as things move seems more and more likely.

Cito Pelon
01-11-2010, 09:45 AM
Just to be fair i dont know how involved the goodmans were involved in FA scouting. I know the new regime clearly defines both.

I will not put to much on MCD for this last draft although it was super important having two first rounders and all. I just find it mind boggeling that if they lacked so much scouting film on guys they just didnt trade out of the first, or trade some of our picks for established vets.

MCD gets a pass this last draft. This is going to be a big year for MCD. i have said from the beging he gets two years to atleast turn this ship around.

that and i hope he has more then a hundred or so guys scouted this year.

Absolutely. Not only does the 2009 draft have to contribute more, but the 2010 draft better have some contributors. Everybody knows damn well you have to draft well, hence the criticism we've seen over the years about Shanny's drafts.

snowspot66
01-11-2010, 10:10 AM
Not trying to derail this thread, but... if they were so behind the 8 ball last year, why spend this years 1st on a player they did not scout as thouroghly as they wanted to?

Just doesn't make sense.

Remember our secondary from 08?

Everybody was real high on Smith. People may have thought the price was high but everybody like Smith the player.

Considering our secondary in 08 I think they took the kid because they believed he would become a good solid starter for us in time and in his rookie season could help fill specific roles and try to patch up the worst secondary this franchise had ever seen.

Popps
01-11-2010, 10:50 AM
why can't you own up and face that your messiah has let you down with his first draft? Is your selfworth as a Bronco fan really that tied up in how Mcdaniels does?

Messiah? Who said that.

I'm just not going to knee-jerk to bust assumptions on all of these guys like you, simply because it fits some scored ex-Shanagirlfriend agenda you have.

It's too early to say what this draft is... or isn't. It's that simple.

montrose
01-11-2010, 11:03 AM
Mcdaniels has owned up and said he wasn't prepared enough for the draft last year, unfortunately it cost us a few picks this year when he would have been prepared, but be that as it may, why can't you own up and face that your messiah has let you down with his first draft? Is your selfworth as a Bronco fan really that tied up in how Mcdaniels does?

Are you already calling the draft a failure? Man that would be disheartening. While I was certainly hoping for more first-year production, I'm not ready to give up on this years draft. While McD may not have been as prepared as he would like, it's not like the Broncos vastly reached on Moreno or Ayers - they were pretty high on every mock draft and list I saw. In fact, I recall many thinking Moreno would be the front runner for ROY. To me, Moreno never looked quite as explosive as he did in camp or during those first runs against SF after he sprained his MCL. I'm hoping that with a year to recover and better learn the system, and with an improved OL blocking for him, Moreno can show why he was so well thought of around the league heading into the draft. The Smith selection will forever be the heavily questioned one because of the pick traded for it. I'm hopeful the game will slow down for him but even if the kid completely busts out I thought McD hit on McBath and Bruton, and I'm excited for the development of Quinn, Brandstater, Olsen and McKinley.

Again, I was hoping for more in year one but I'm not ready to call the draft a miss; and I'm certainly not ready to call out McD for reaching on anyone as, outside of Quinn, every selection was taken around where the player was projected to go (with the exception of Smith who was a 1st rounder in pretty much every mock I saw).

SureShot
01-11-2010, 11:14 AM
boo hoo... Where's that "leave britney alone" video when you need it?


25915

TheDave
01-11-2010, 11:15 AM
25915



:notworthy

gyldenlove
01-11-2010, 11:16 AM
Are you already calling the draft a failure? Man that would be disheartening. While I was certainly hoping for more first-year production, I'm not ready to give up on this years draft. While McD may not have been as prepared as he would like, it's not like the Broncos vastly reached on Moreno or Ayers - they were pretty high on every mock draft and list I saw. In fact, I recall many thinking Moreno would be the front runner for ROY. To me, Moreno never looked quite as explosive as he did in camp or during those first runs against SF after he sprained his MCL. I'm hoping that with a year to recover and better learn the system, and with an improved OL blocking for him, Moreno can show why he was so well thought of around the league heading into the draft. The Smith selection will forever be the heavily questioned one because of the pick traded for it. I'm hopeful the game will slow down for him but even if the kid completely busts out I thought McD hit on McBath and Bruton, and I'm excited for the development of Quinn, Brandstater, Olsen and McKinley.

Again, I was hoping for more in year one but I'm not ready to call the draft a miss; and I'm certainly not ready to call out McD for reaching on anyone as, outside of Quinn, every selection was taken around where the player was projected to go (with the exception of Smith who was a 1st rounder in pretty much every mock I saw).

I am calling the draft diappointing just like Mcdaniels did - clearly we didn't get nearly the level of contribution in year 1 we should have gotten considering we had 5 picks on day 1.

Can the players improve? of course they can, some of them almost certainly will. Does that change the fact that the level of contribution in year 1 was disappointing? no.

Mario Williams is a good example, he was disappointing in year 1 but no bust. I am not calling Smith a bust, but his rookie year was certainly disappointing.

Please, do realize that there is a difference between a disappointing rookie year and a bust - for now the rookies have just been disappointing - if they ultimately become busts is still very much up in the air.

gyldenlove
01-11-2010, 11:16 AM
Messiah? Who said that.

I'm just not going to knee-jerk to bust assumptions on all of these guys like you, simply because it fits some scored ex-Shanagirlfriend agenda you have.

It's too early to say what this draft is... or isn't. It's that simple.

Josh called it disappointing, why can't you?

Popps
01-11-2010, 11:20 AM
why can't you own up and face that your messiah has let you down with his first draft? Is your selfworth as a Bronco fan really that tied up in how Mcdaniels does?

Messiah? Who said that.

I'm just not going to knee-jerk to bust assumptions on all of these guys like you, simply because it fits some scored ex-Shanagirlfriend agenda you have.

It's too early to say what this draft is... or isn't. It's that simple.

Hercules Rockefeller
01-11-2010, 11:24 AM
If there is no new agreement, key players like outside linebacker Elvis Dumervil, receiver Brandon Marshall, tight end Tony Scheffler, quarterback Kyle Orton and guard Chris Kuper will be restricted free agents, not unrestricted as they would have been under the old agreement.


Don't see these guys being UFAs even if they do reach a new agreement.

Over 200 guys will be UFAs that were scheduled to be RFAs, and there's at least 1 from each team. Every team has relied upon the belief that they would retain these players' rights for 1 more season, and made signing decisions accordingly. Cannot see the owners agreeing to anything to puts these guys all on the open market.

Florio, so take it FWIW, said a couple months ago in one of his labor updates that both sides had pretty much agreed to even if there was a new deal, these players would still be RFAs.

Cito Pelon
01-11-2010, 11:26 AM
If he was 3 inches taller and 0.3 seconds faster in the 40 yard dash, Smith is unfortunately the most deadly combination of slow and small you will ever see.

Ho-hum? since when did that become a pseudonym for crappy? We are talking about a guy who had so much success he was pushed for playing time by a guy who got cut and not signed by another team, got demoted behind a 35 year old street free agent and a midseason practice squad signee. If that is ho-hum I wouldn't want to see what you think is a bad season...

Mcdaniels wasn't supposed to draft an all-pro team, but nice strawman argument there. But it would have been nice if he had gotten a contributor - you know someone who could maybe register a sack or maybe even play in a rotation role. The only player we drafted who made any impact was a star RB who failed to reach 100 yards in a game, here is a list of rookie RBs who had at least one 100 yard rushing game this year:

Beanie Wells
Arian Foster
Shonn Greene
Bernard Scott

Shanahan got fired largely because of his personnel decisions, so shouldn't we expect that whoever replaced him would do better? in fact shouldn't be a requirement that you are better than the guy you replaced - if not then we are paying Shanahan 14 mill for no reason and Mcdaniels however many mill for even less of a reason.

Mcdaniels has owned up and said he wasn't prepared enough for the draft last year, unfortunately it cost us a few picks this year when he would have been prepared, but be that as it may, why can't you own up and face that your messiah has let you down with his first draft? Is your selfworth as a Bronco fan really that tied up in how Mcdaniels does?

2009 wasn't much of an impact draft. Moreno is pretty good, I'll still say part of the reason they grabbed him was to keep him out of San Diego. I think SD was itching to draft Moreno as their next LT.

Requiem
01-11-2010, 11:26 AM
Quinn was rated a late-second rounder or early third by the Pro Football Weekly reports that have been rather spot on as to where a player will likely be selected. There were a lot of people who didn't feel that he was a reach.

Cito Pelon
01-11-2010, 11:37 AM
Are you already calling the draft a failure? Man that would be disheartening. While I was certainly hoping for more first-year production, I'm not ready to give up on this years draft. While McD may not have been as prepared as he would like, it's not like the Broncos vastly reached on Moreno or Ayers - they were pretty high on every mock draft and list I saw. In fact, I recall many thinking Moreno would be the front runner for ROY. To me, Moreno never looked quite as explosive as he did in camp or during those first runs against SF after he sprained his MCL. I'm hoping that with a year to recover and better learn the system, and with an improved OL blocking for him, Moreno can show why he was so well thought of around the league heading into the draft. The Smith selection will forever be the heavily questioned one because of the pick traded for it. I'm hopeful the game will slow down for him but even if the kid completely busts out I thought McD hit on McBath and Bruton, and I'm excited for the development of Quinn, Brandstater, Olsen and McKinley.

Again, I was hoping for more in year one but I'm not ready to call the draft a miss; and I'm certainly not ready to call out McD for reaching on anyone as, outside of Quinn, every selection was taken around where the player was projected to go (with the exception of Smith who was a 1st rounder in pretty much every mock I saw).

There's also a factor that some coaches are just not willing to use rookies too much. Some coaches yank them at the first mistake. So we'll just have to wait and see how these guys pan out.

Look at Dominique Foxworth. Dude never had the coaches behind him in Denver, got traded for what a 7th to Atlanta? Fox is in Balt now and led the team in tackles yesterday.

Requiem
01-11-2010, 11:50 AM
Foxworth also gave up some of the most yards for any cornerback in the NFL this past year.

Rohirrim
01-11-2010, 11:56 AM
Unless a draftee is an out and out bust or an out and out star, you're not going to know for three years. Especially with CBs.

montrose
01-11-2010, 12:04 PM
I am calling the draft diappointing just like Mcdaniels did - clearly we didn't get nearly the level of contribution in year 1 we should have gotten considering we had 5 picks on day 1.

Can the players improve? of course they can, some of them almost certainly will. Does that change the fact that the level of contribution in year 1 was disappointing? no.

Mario Williams is a good example, he was disappointing in year 1 but no bust. I am not calling Smith a bust, but his rookie year was certainly disappointing.

Please, do realize that there is a difference between a disappointing rookie year and a bust - for now the rookies have just been disappointing - if they ultimately become busts is still very much up in the air.

I agree completely.