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View Full Version : Where to Change First Things First.


rugbythug
01-10-2010, 10:36 AM
1. Left Guard. Since probably the 2005 Season. The Ben Hamilton Spot has been a serious Problem in Short Yardage. This year with the Blocking style changes that problem seemed to spread from just Short Yardage But to every run Play. Off Tackle, Sweeps were forced back before the runner was able to go North/South. Watch the good running teams this year. Chris Johnson was clean till positive yardage on every play. Every Bronco back had a hand on them in the back field on nearly every play. Keeping the LOS clean till the runner can hit the hole must change for this team to play well next year.

2. Defensive Tackle-At the end of this season Off Tackle runs were pure gold. I don't know the average gain but I am sure it was massive. Less so were outside runs, and runs up the gut. So IMO 2 tackles first and then the nose. Also other than the ageless Vonnie Holiday no pressure was ever generated. Kenny P. Looked great in preseason but disappeared later in the year. Good teams get pressure from these guys.

Improve the above and we win 20-30% more games.

From those two glaring issues we run into a lot of lesser issues.
1.RB Play
2.WR #2
3.Inside LB
4.QB Play-Orton is fine when the play is working as drawn up. But plays like he has vertigo if pressure comes or the first receiver is not open. For all the check down complaints he gets. He rarely ever makes a check down throw that generates positive yds. Mostly he checks it down into a players cleat.
5.Nickle CB

gunns
01-10-2010, 10:46 AM
Those are my thoughts exactly...OL and DL. People say TD being brought in helped Elway win those SB's. It was more the OL, who helped Elway and TD. The two anchors to each side. Improve them, you improve the rest of the team.

gtown
01-10-2010, 10:56 AM
Of all the OL I have seen in the draft, I have been most impressed with Iupati. That guy is a monster. He played a nearly perfect bowl game and every time I saw him, I came away awed. If we get an extra first rounder, I hope we target this guy.

And what of Olsen? Was he that raw?

Lev Vyvanse
01-10-2010, 10:57 AM
Did you mean D Ends?

watermock
01-10-2010, 11:00 AM
If we get an extra first rounder, I hope

WE had one...he got fronted by Ty Law and and a free agent midsason.

Tombstone RJ
01-10-2010, 11:01 AM
1. Left Guard. Since probably the 2005 Season. The Ben Hamilton Spot has been a serious Problem in Short Yardage. This year with the Blocking style changes that problem seemed to spread from just Short Yardage But to every run Play. Off Tackle, Sweeps were forced back before the runner was able to go North/South. Watch the good running teams this year. Chris Johnson was clean till positive yardage on every play. Every Bronco back had a hand on them in the back field on nearly every play. Keeping the LOS clean till the runner can hit the hole must change for this team to play well next year.

2. Defensive Tackle-At the end of this season Off Tackle runs were pure gold. I don't know the average gain but I am sure it was massive. Less so were outside runs, and runs up the gut. So IMO 2 tackles first and then the nose. Also other than the ageless Vonnie Holiday no pressure was ever generated. Kenny P. Looked great in preseason but disappeared later in the year. Good teams get pressure from these guys.

Improve the above and we win 20-30% more games.

From those two glaring issues we run into a lot of lesser issues.
1.RB Play
2.WR #2
3.Inside LB
4.QB Play-Orton is fine when the play is working as drawn up. But plays like he has vertigo if pressure comes or the first receiver is not open. For all the check down complaints he gets. He rarely ever makes a check down throw that generates positive yds. Mostly he checks it down into a players cleat.
5.Nickle CB

I agree, however the Broncos need to start with a center, and then a left guard. Fix those two positions and the entirior of the oline startes to solidify.

ludo21
01-10-2010, 11:08 AM
Agreed, OL and DL are the answers, as always.

WR #1 is what we need though, I doubt BMarsh is here next season.

gyldenlove
01-10-2010, 11:12 AM
It is funny how fast history is rewritten, last year we had the best offensive line in franchise history from a statistical point of view and even though we all know it didn't have as much talent as the lines of the late 90s it was still pretty damn good. But now all of a sudden we have had line trouble since 2005?

Lets say it like it is, Mcdaniels wants to play a system he doesn't have the players for, he is a slightly more talented Jim Bates in that respect. So now we have to spend a lot of resources and time trying to replace at least 2 offensive linemen, and while we do that every other fault with Mcdaniels offense can be entirely blamed on the offensive line. The fact that our run game suffered so badly had nothing to do with our beloved 1st round runningback, or the fact that we ran almost exclusively from double or triple TE sets, practically telegraphing the defense what was coming, and certainly had nothing to do with our complete lack of passes of more than 10 yards which allowed the defense to load up the line of scrimmage. It had nothing to do with the playcalling, running on 1st down and then passing on 2nd and 3rd. It was all due to the interior offensive line.

The funny thing is, we were leading the league for about half the season when it came to negative yards, we had less than 1 per game, but I am assume that was also because of the interior line.

I agree we need help on the interior line, but let us not rewrite history just yet to hide all the obvious blemishes with our offense, because most of them are not attributable to the interior line.

Pony Boy
01-10-2010, 11:56 AM
Rebirth of the Fridge ......Mt Cody in the middle and at fullback on the goal line.

Perry scores at fullback...POW .....

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xPmSJ6Txwto&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xPmSJ6Txwto&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

eddie mac
01-10-2010, 11:59 AM
Look at the Saints. IMHO the OL play of Nicks and Evans alone at both OG positions was one of the major reasons this team has shot through the roof offensively.

Tombstone RJ
01-10-2010, 12:43 PM
It is funny how fast history is rewritten, last year we had the best offensive line in franchise history from a statistical point of view and even though we all know it didn't have as much talent as the lines of the late 90s it was still pretty damn good. But now all of a sudden we have had line trouble since 2005?

Lets say it like it is, Mcdaniels wants to play a system he doesn't have the players for, he is a slightly more talented Jim Bates in that respect. So now we have to spend a lot of resources and time trying to replace at least 2 offensive linemen, and while we do that every other fault with Mcdaniels offense can be entirely blamed on the offensive line. The fact that our run game suffered so badly had nothing to do with our beloved 1st round runningback, or the fact that we ran almost exclusively from double or triple TE sets, practically telegraphing the defense what was coming, and certainly had nothing to do with our complete lack of passes of more than 10 yards which allowed the defense to load up the line of scrimmage. It had nothing to do with the playcalling, running on 1st down and then passing on 2nd and 3rd. It was all due to the interior offensive line.

The funny thing is, we were leading the league for about half the season when it came to negative yards, we had less than 1 per game, but I am assume that was also because of the interior line.

I agree we need help on the interior line, but let us not rewrite history just yet to hide all the obvious blemishes with our offense, because most of them are not attributable to the interior line.

Well said, no argument here. I'm a big fan of the oline and much of the offenses problems arise from the play calling. Not sure why McD was so vanilla, maybe he was trying to prove a point, that is, "we are gonna live and die by these plays and at the end of the season, I'm gonna know where our strength and weaknes truly are for my offense...."

Did McD sacrifice this year to prove a point? I dunno, but it's a ligit question.

Rohirrim
01-10-2010, 12:59 PM
IMO, to build a winning football team, you start with the basics: Build a line that can get you one yard, anytime, anywhere on the field, against any opponent, no matter what the situation. Once you have that, start working back.

PRBronco
01-10-2010, 01:19 PM
1. Left Guard. Since probably the 2005 Season. The Ben Hamilton Spot has been a serious Problem in Short Yardage. This year with the Blocking style changes that problem seemed to spread from just Short Yardage But to every run Play. Off Tackle, Sweeps were forced back before the runner was able to go North/South. Watch the good running teams this year. Chris Johnson was clean till positive yardage on every play. Every Bronco back had a hand on them in the back field on nearly every play. Keeping the LOS clean till the runner can hit the hole must change for this team to play well next year.

2. Defensive Tackle-At the end of this season Off Tackle runs were pure gold. I don't know the average gain but I am sure it was massive. Less so were outside runs, and runs up the gut. So IMO 2 tackles first and then the nose. Also other than the ageless Vonnie Holiday no pressure was ever generated. Kenny P. Looked great in preseason but disappeared later in the year. Good teams get pressure from these guys.

Improve the above and we win 20-30% more games.

From those two glaring issues we run into a lot of lesser issues.
1.RB Play
2.WR #2
3.Inside LB
4.QB Play-Orton is fine when the play is working as drawn up. But plays like he has vertigo if pressure comes or the first receiver is not open. For all the check down complaints he gets. He rarely ever makes a check down throw that generates positive yds. Mostly he checks it down into a players cleat.
5.Nickle CB

Great post, I'd like to say I agree with everything, but I just read an excellent thread on the mane that told me that our running game is bad because McD is petulant and Knowshon is a bust. Shonn Greene would make Ben Hamilton a better blocker.

Jk of course. It all starts with the line. I'm watching Mankins play right now and am envious, I just saw him stone Ngata.

rugbythug
01-10-2010, 02:52 PM
It is funny how fast history is rewritten, last year we had the best offensive line in franchise history from a statistical point of view and even though we all know it didn't have as much talent as the lines of the late 90s it was still pretty damn good. But now all of a sudden we have had line trouble since 2005?

Lets say it like it is, Mcdaniels wants to play a system he doesn't have the players for, he is a slightly more talented Jim Bates in that respect. So now we have to spend a lot of resources and time trying to replace at least 2 offensive linemen, and while we do that every other fault with Mcdaniels offense can be entirely blamed on the offensive line. The fact that our run game suffered so badly had nothing to do with our beloved 1st round runningback, or the fact that we ran almost exclusively from double or triple TE sets, practically telegraphing the defense what was coming, and certainly had nothing to do with our complete lack of passes of more than 10 yards which allowed the defense to load up the line of scrimmage. It had nothing to do with the playcalling, running on 1st down and then passing on 2nd and 3rd. It was all due to the interior offensive line.

The funny thing is, we were leading the league for about half the season when it came to negative yards, we had less than 1 per game, but I am assume that was also because of the interior line.

I agree we need help on the interior line, but let us not rewrite history just yet to hide all the obvious blemishes with our offense, because most of them are not attributable to the interior line.

We have not been a strong 3rd and Short team since 05. Anyone who has seen a game knows this. Maybe you have a hard time remembering. How about the 07 Detroit Game?

rastaman
01-10-2010, 02:58 PM
Rebirth of the Fridge ......Mt Cody in the middle and at fullback on the goal line.

Perry scores at fullback...POW .....

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xPmSJ6Txwto&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xPmSJ6Txwto&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Fridge ate himself out of the league. Mount Cody will probably do the same.:peace:

skpac1001
01-10-2010, 03:23 PM
We have not been a strong 3rd and Short team since 05. Anyone who has seen a game knows this. Maybe you have a hard time remembering. How about the 07 Detroit Game?

I'm not really sure what to make of this, but I will throw it out there.
According to NFL.com, we are 11th in the league at Power rushing, as defined by
Rush Pwr = Percentage of rushes on 3rd or 4th down with 2 or fewer yards to go that achieved a first down or TD. Also includes rushes on 1st-and-goal and 2nd-and-goal from the opponent's 2-yard line or closer.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE _LINE&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=RUSHING_RIGHT_POWER&d-447263-n=1&season=2009&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1

There seems to be as many mammoth power rush lines below us as above.

Edit: I screwed this up pretty badly. I counted only power runs right, at which we ranked 11th. Power runs to the center ranked 30th. Power runs left ranked 14th.

gyldenlove
01-10-2010, 03:28 PM
We have not been a strong 3rd and Short team since 05. Anyone who has seen a game knows this. Maybe you have a hard time remembering. How about the 07 Detroit Game?

When did I bring up 07 as being a good year? I talked about 08 being a good year for our offensive line.

Here is the list of teams who converted better on 3rd down in 2008 than we did:

Indianapolis Colts


(We finished 2nd in the league tied with New Orleans at a 48% conversion rate)

Do you still want to tell me how awful we were on 3rd downs?

I will give you this one chance to walk away from a bad argument you can't win.

gyldenlove
01-10-2010, 03:29 PM
And for reference: here is the difference a year and poor offensive playcalling makes:

From 48% to 36%, that is a drop of 25% from 08 to 09.

WolfpackGuy
01-10-2010, 03:31 PM
The team was absolutely horrible in short yardage and goalline this season.

Bronx33
01-10-2010, 03:44 PM
The team was absolutely horrible in short yardage and goalline this season.



Calling the same play over and over didn't help either.

skpac1001
01-10-2010, 03:47 PM
The team was absolutely horrible in short yardage and goalline this season.

Was there any yardage situations we were good at? I doubt we were ranked any higher in med to long yardage situations then we were at short.

WolfpackGuy
01-10-2010, 03:52 PM
Was there any yardage situations we were good at? I doubt we were ranked any higher in med to long yardage situations then we were at short.

That 2nd and 87 against the Bengals was pretty good.

I bet they're tops in that category...

Dedhed
01-10-2010, 03:59 PM
Of all the OL I have seen in the draft, I have been most impressed with Iupati. That guy is a monster. He played a nearly perfect bowl game and every time I saw him, I came away awed. If we get an extra first rounder, I hope we target this guy.
Why do we need an extra 1st to target this guy?

skpac1001
01-10-2010, 04:01 PM
Why do we need an extra 1st to target this guy?

I think taking him at 11 would be a little early value-wise. We could always trade down though.

Dedhed
01-10-2010, 04:12 PM
I think taking him at 11 would be a little early value-wise. We could always trade down though.

I can stand that argument. We have a great player available at a great area of need, but people worry about taking him 5 or 6 picks before some random value board has him listed.

It's a "two in the bush is greater than one in the hand" argument, and imo, completely fallacious.

skpac1001
01-10-2010, 04:21 PM
I can stand that argument. We have a great player available at a great area of need, but people worry about taking him 5 or 6 picks before some random value board has him listed.

It's a "two in the bush is greater than one in the hand" argument, and imo, completely fallacious.

Can't really argue with you, other then to say if we could manipulate the picks so that we can get both Dan Williams NT and Iupati, then I will sacrifice a chicken or something. That is still a two in the bush argument though, I guess.

rugbythug
01-10-2010, 04:23 PM
Calling the same play over and over didn't help either.

Worked good for Baltimore today. Actually works good for most good teams.

Dedhed
01-10-2010, 05:11 PM
Can't really argue with you, other then to say if we could manipulate the picks so that we can get both Dan Williams NT and Iupati, then I will sacrifice a chicken or something. That is still a two in the bush argument though, I guess.
I'd eat Brussel sprouts with every meal, including cereal, for that to happen, but in the end i think it's unrealistic.

It's also the reason that armchair drafters complain so much. My theory is that you target a few guys in each round, and if your #1 gut is there, you take him unless you think you can get him an entire round later. Of course you can try to make a trade, but that's supremely more difficult than people make it out to be.

In the end, I have no issues with taking Iupati at #11, even if he might be available at #20.

There's no way he's available in the 2nd, and I don't see a guy who has a bigger impact as a rookie for this team.

WolfpackGuy
01-10-2010, 05:14 PM
Can't really argue with you, other then to say if we could manipulate the picks so that we can get both Dan Williams NT and Iupati, then I will sacrifice a chicken or something. That is still a two in the bush argument though, I guess.

Probably COULD'VE had the ammo to pull both.

But, good thing they got Smith instead, right?

Dedhed
01-10-2010, 05:23 PM
Probably COULD'VE had the ammo to pull both.

But, good thing they got Smith instead, right?

WAY too soon to be copping this 'tude. Particularly with Bailey on the verge.

Not to mention that with Marshall and Scheffler on the block, we probably still do have the ammo.

TonyR
01-10-2010, 05:46 PM
Here is the list of teams who converted better on 3rd down in 2008 than we did:

Indianapolis Colts

(We finished 2nd in the league tied with New Orleans at a 48% conversion rate)

Do you still want to tell me how awful we were on 3rd downs?


I think he was talking about rushing on 3rd and short, not overall 3rd down conversion rate.