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Bronco Rob
01-10-2010, 05:14 AM
Changes sure to start at line of scrimmage


Broncos' run game, run defense in need of boost
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 01/10/2010 01:00:00 AM MST


No one ever wants to go there.

Maybe because it's too dirty, too rough, too bruising. Too anonymous.

Focus is always on the spotlight, from where quarterbacks throw, receivers catch and tailbacks run.

When considering what went wrong with the Broncos' once-promising 2009 season and how they can end their playoff drought in 2010, discussion usually starts with quarterback Kyle Orton. The real answer, though, may lie directly in front of Orton.

The gritty, sweaty, widely ignored line of scrimmage.

When the Broncos began the 2009 season 6-0, credit went to Orton and Brandon Marshall, or to safety Brian Dawkins and pass-rushing linebacker Elvis Dumervil. Looking back, it was the players up front who were dominating, particularly in the second half of games. The Broncos could not have outscored their first six opponents by a combined second-half score of 76-10 if not for their linemen moving the line of scrimmage a yard or two in their desired direction.

Then there was the Broncos' free fall after Week 6. They got beat up by Baltimore, wore down by Pittsburgh. The pitiful Oakland Raiders rushed for 241 yards despite running at the disadvantage of 5,280 feet above sea level. kansas city's one trick pony Jamaal Charles, all 199 pounds of him, gashed the Broncos for 259 yards.

In contrast, Broncos rookie Knowshon Moreno averaged just 43.3 yards, on 2.7 yards per carry, in his final four games.

The difference between the 6-0 Broncos and 2-8 Broncos? Look no further than where people never look: the line of scrimmage.

"If you have to pass the ball 56 times (as Orton did in the season-ending debacle against Kansas City), now your protection is going to be significantly more challenged when the defense knows you have to throw it to gain yards," Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said. "If you also struggle to stop the run, you try to start moving people down in the box on defense. Now, all of the sudden, everybody is in one-on-one coverage in the secondary or you start blitzing to try to stop the run, which is never a good formula because if you do that, you've got all (heck) breaking loose at the line of scrimmage. Sometimes it's good and sometimes it's terrible. That's never a good formula."

To say Denver's late-season fade should be blamed on McDaniels' coaching, Orton's throwing or locker-room disharmony is to disrespect the significance of the play at the line of scrimmage. Priority No. 1 this offseason for McDan- iels, his coaching staff and general manager Brian Xanders is addressing the line of scrimmage, where blockers push tacklers and tacklers push back.

"There's two positions you've got to look at," said former Broncos guard Mark Schlereth, now an NFL analyst for ESPN. "The inside of the offensive line, and you've got to find a complementary pass rusher to Elvis Dumervil somewhere. Who knows if that guy exists?"

Where have you gone, Robert Ayers? Here's a look at the positions the Broncos are certain to address this offseason:

Interior offensive line. Every time McDaniels was asked why he didn't use Peyton Hillis in short-yardage situations, his response, in so many words, was that the problem did not necessarily lie with the running backs, but with the blocking up front.

McDaniels believes in Moreno. He would not have used the No. 12 overall pick in the 2009 draft if he didn't. But there's no way to sugarcoat Moreno's 3.8 yards per carry for the season as anything but disappointing. Moreno will stay. The offensive line will change.

In Ryan Clady and Ryan Harris, the Broncos are plenty good enough at the tackle position. There will be a new left guard next season, and 285-pound Casey Wiegmann will again confront the possibility of getting replaced by a larger center.

Defensive front seven. Ayers, the No. 18 overall draft pick, finished with 17 fewer sacks in his rookie year than Dumervil, now a restricted free agent. Because both were outside linebackers who are defensive ends by trade, the Broncos employed more of a 5-2 defense than 3-4 in Mike Nolan's first season as their defensive coordinator. The Broncos will again search for a true 3-4 outside linebacker who can rush the passer, cover a tight end and disrupt the run. And given the way the Broncos became so passive against the rush in November and December, they may look for a 3-4 inside linebacker who more closely resembles take-on-the-blocker Andra Davis than free-lancing D.J. Williams, and more stoutness at five-technique defensive end and nose tackle.

Receiver. The question isn't if Marshall will leave Denver, or even when his departure should happen March 5, the first day of the trading and free-agent season. Will the Broncos try to replace his Pro Bowl talent?

"New England did it forever without a No. 1 receiver," Schlereth said.

Nor do the Broncos have to find the equivalent of Wes Welker at slot receiver. They already have one in Eddie Royal. They just didn't realize it during the 2009 season.

"I know that I'm frustrated and disappointed that we couldn't do more in terms of using Eddie Royal," McDaniels said. "I've been asked that question a bunch. I know Eddie is frustrated with it too. I'm not happy with that, and I don't want that to be the case. We're going to work hard to try to fix that and get that to change dramatically going into next season."

Receiving tight end. In veteran Daniel Graham and youngster Richard Quinn, the Broncos have two block-first tight ends but neither can replace the pass-catching role of Tony Scheffler, who is likely to be traded.

Quarterback. Orton will return, but it would be a surprise if the Broncos gave him a Matt Cassel-type contract when the current labor laws say it's not necessary. The Broncos may bring in another veteran to compete with Chris Simms as backup or continue to analyze the draft for their quarterback of the future.



Broncos' wish list?

The Broncos' needs are many, including improving the interior of the offensive line, the front three on defense, linebacker, a No. 1 receiver and a future quarterback. First comes free agency, then the draft. Following are players the Broncos may pursue this offseason:


Free agency

1. Logan Mankins, LG, Patriots, 6-4, 310, RFA-UFA*

Interior offensive line may be top priority.

2. Ryan Pickett, NT, Packers, 6-2, 340, UFA

Pickett will be best 3-4 nose tackle available.

3. Larry Foote, ILB, Lions, 6-1, 240, UFA

Might be better 3-4 fit than D.J. Williams.

4. Jarvis Green, DL, Patriots, 6-3, 285, UFA

Versatile lineman who can rush the passer.

5. Benjamin Watson, TE, Patriots, 6-3, 255, UFA

Well-known by Broncos coach Josh McDaniels.

Others: Rex Hadnot, C, Browns; Mark Clayton, WR, Ravens; Marcus Spears, DE, Cowboys; Ryan Denney, DE, Bills; Stephen Neal, G, Patriots; Chad Pennington, QB, Dolphins; Casey Hampton, NT, Steelers; Derrick Johnson, LB, Chiefs.

* Restricted free agent if labor agreement is not reached; unrestricted if there's a new contract agreement.



http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14158161#ixzz0cD8aGG6U

Rabb
01-10-2010, 09:19 AM
Mankins and Foote would be fan-****ing-tastic

elsid13
01-10-2010, 09:24 AM
Exactly were would Foote play? Are we going to cut/trade DJ? not likely and Davis was pretty solid. What this team needs on defense is better DE that can hold up the run blocks.

broncogary
01-10-2010, 09:25 AM
Well, if Mankins ends up being an RFA, no way we give up a first and third for him.

oubronco
01-10-2010, 10:12 AM
Why does everyone assume that we will get all the Patriots free agents?

there are 30 other teams out there that need players as well

Rabb
01-10-2010, 10:36 AM
Exactly were would Foote play? Are we going to cut/trade DJ? not likely and Davis was pretty solid. What this team needs on defense is better DE that can hold up the run blocks.

first, you can't have enough good linebackers

second, don't be shocked if DJ is shipped...I am a fan but he isn't as great as people make him out to be either

Hamrob
01-10-2010, 10:39 AM
first, you can't have enough good linebackers

second, don't be shocked if DJ is shipped...I am a fan but he isn't as great as people make him out to be eitherI'd replace Davis before I got rid of D.J. Davis looked terrible down the stretch. He's slow and for every nice play he makes, there's two where he completely disapears.

Hamrob
01-10-2010, 10:48 AM
It's interesting to me...that most of the so-called draft gurus happen to be saying we should draft a LB and/or a DE with our #1.

You hardly hear anyone talking about our NT or lack there of. I agree we could use a 5 technique DE and a OLB who can rush the passer and of course replacing Davis soon makes sense as well. But, to me...we need a monster in the middle at NT.

Perhaps we get Pickett in free agency and don't have to focus on NT in the draft...but absent of that...we need a NT somehow.

At #10 we'll have to take either McClain or a DE. We'd be reaching for a OLB at that draft position and Cody would be a reach there as well. So, we either take a DE or McClain at #10 (outside chance we take a QB). OR;

We trade back and take Cody and the best Guard/Center available.

I really think we can improve our team this offseason and if McDaniels can grow himself and improve his playcalling....we'll be in the playoffs next year.

We absolutely have to have: Moreno, Ayers & Smith make bigger contributions next year. All three guys were less than impressive in their rookie seasons.

Paladin
01-10-2010, 10:53 AM
I'd prefer the trade down, and get a LG and a C, maybe a DE or LB. It is no secret that McD thinks the Oline needs to be improved. He said it a couple of times in the conferences.

The Joker
01-10-2010, 10:55 AM
I like the idea of taking McClain, he seems to me like a can't miss pick. If Gerald McCoy falls to there then he'd be ideal, IMO.

That said, I agree that a quality NT would be a huge addition to the team. I think Fields is serviceable, but not really a difference maker by any means. He'd be a great #2 NT, but as the starter not so much.

If we can get a late #1 back if we trade Marshall, I'd love to see Cody be the guy we pick up.

bpc
01-10-2010, 11:00 AM
It's interesting to me...that most of the so-called draft gurus happen to be saying we should draft a LB and/or a DE with our #1.

You hardly hear anyone talking about our NT or lack there of. I agree we could use a 5 technique DE and a OLB who can rush the passer and of course replacing Davis soon makes sense as well. But, to me...we need a monster in the middle at NT.

Perhaps we get Pickett in free agency and don't have to focus on NT in the draft...but absent of that...we need a NT somehow.

At #10 we'll have to take either McClain or a DE. We'd be reaching for a OLB at that draft position and Cody would be a reach there as well. So, we either take a DE or McClain at #10 (outside chance we take a QB). OR;

We trade back and take Cody and the best Guard/Center available.

I really think we can improve our team this offseason and if McDaniels can grow himself and improve his playcalling....we'll be in the playoffs next year.

We absolutely have to have: Moreno, Ayers & Smith make bigger contributions next year. All three guys were less than impressive in their rookie seasons.

I'm of the opinion that it takes time to grow those guys and you're paying a premium for a 2-down player.

Investing high draft picks in the DL of a 3-4 is a risky proposition. You get situations like KC had with Tyson Jackson. Where's the production? Well, it's hard to account for production from that spot, like you would expect with a top 10 draft pick.

I wouldn't touch DL this year with our #1 pick unless the whole draft collapsed and Gerald McCoy or Suh some how made their way down to our selection... not gonna happen.

Instead, I would turn our attention to FA where we can find ready made contributors, such as Picket, Woolfork (fat chance), Jolly, or a lesser known name, Abrayo Franklin who Nolan tutored in SF and is a FA this year.

I think Fields is a solid player at NT, more of a backup though. Add a player like Franklin and we're looking much better at that spot and the depth is solidified.

I would also bulk up Ayers and put him at DE permanently. He's a good player, nice quickness, excellent strength but he's not a natural pass rusher. He's got two moves, bull rush, spin. He can do that at DE. We need a premium guy at OLB rushing the passer. MLB is another spot were we need help.

As for the OL, we do need to improve the middle of this unit, especially LG. It would be great if we could land a guy like Mankins in free agency. Doubtful that NE lets him go. Another NE guy is coming up and I wouldn't be surprised to see us go after him... Stephen Neal. He's had some injury concerns but I could see us land him at more of a bargain price considering he understands the system.

I'm also leaning towards offensive line in the first round. Seems to be where the depth is for us unless we could trade back.

Killericon
01-10-2010, 11:20 AM
"I know that I'm frustrated and disappointed that we couldn't do more in terms of using Eddie Royal," McDaniels said. "I've been asked that question a bunch. I know Eddie is frustrated with it too. I'm not happy with that, and I don't want that to be the case. We're going to work hard to try to fix that and get that to change dramatically going into next season."

This quote gives me more hope than anything else I've heard.

bpc
01-10-2010, 11:25 AM
This quote gives me more hope than anything else I've heard.

The most frustrating thing about this is why just think about it after the season? Why not try something new to fix it IN season, especially when we were struggling so bad down the stretch?

Head coach, offensive coordinator... it's a tough job... but if you're going to do both, you better have your head on straight and be able to think outside the box and objectively look at the personnel and find roles for them and how best to use their talents.

You could argue about many misused players during this season. Eddie Royal is just the most apparent. You could also point to the failure at the offensive line, short yard running game, etc, etc, etc.

McDaniels is very green as a head coach.

skpac1001
01-10-2010, 11:33 AM
The most frustrating thing about this is why just think about it after the season? Why not try something new to fix it IN season, especially when we were struggling so bad down the stretch?

Head coach, offensive coordinator... it's a tough job... but if you're going to do both, you better have your head on straight and be able to think outside the box and objectively look at the personnel and find roles for them and how best to use their talents.

You could argue about many misused players during this season. Eddie Royal is just the most apparent. You could also point to the failure at the offensive line, short yard running game, etc, etc, etc.

McDaniels is very green as a head coach.

Unfortunately, I think he was trying to fix it the whole time, he just couldn't. He made comments about it a few times during the season.
I think there is no doubt about him being green as a head coach, but I actually think he has done a pretty good job at it.
But I think he is also green (one scheme with one basic set of hall of fame players for most his career) as an OC, and has failed almost completely at that IMHO, based on what he said he wanted to do before the season.

HEAV
01-10-2010, 11:38 AM
In Ryan Clady and Ryan Harris, the Broncos are plenty good enough at the tackle position. There will be a new left guard next season, and 285-pound Casey Wiegmann will again confront the possibility of getting replaced by a larger center.

Clady needs to get stronger. Not upper body, but rather his lower legs. Too often the last 4-5 games he was driven back by rushers and didn't have much push/drive in the legs.

Harris, hopefully can comeback from the turf toe and continue to improve.

I'm hoping for a new Guard-Center combo that can push the LOS and make the 3 & short plays eaiser in 2010.

The entire offensive line needs to get stronger.

Rabb
01-10-2010, 11:42 AM
I'd replace Davis before I got rid of D.J. Davis looked terrible down the stretch. He's slow and for every nice play he makes, there's two where he completely disapears.

can't argue with you there holmes

rastaman
01-10-2010, 01:33 PM
first, you can't have enough good linebackers

second, don't be shocked if DJ is shipped...I am a fan but he isn't as great as people make him out to be either

DJ is a great talent. He's kinda like Trevor Pryce in terms of long term talent, and only needs to be shipped to a team that already has a talented defense like what Pryce is playing with in Baltimore.

ScottXray
01-10-2010, 01:48 PM
I'd replace Davis before I got rid of D.J. Davis looked terrible down the stretch. He's slow and for every nice play he makes, there's two where he completely disapears.

Sounds just like DJ to me. DJ overuns plays, gets caught up in blocking
and tends to chase the blocking back rather than the ball carrier too much.

Popps
01-10-2010, 01:50 PM
When considering what went wrong with the Broncos' once-promising 2009 season and how they can end their playoff drought in 2010, discussion usually starts with quarterback Kyle Orton. The real answer, though, may lie directly in front of Orton.

Yep. Fairly simple stuff if you're paying attention. The problems with our running game started there, as well.

It'll be addressed this offseason, that's for sure.

Popps
01-10-2010, 01:53 PM
Sounds just like DJ to me. DJ overuns plays, gets caught up in blocking
and tends to chase the blocking back rather than the ball carrier too much.

I wonder if there's a way to find out where our longest runs allowed were directed? I'd bet my life that most of our 10+ yard runs ran to his side.

He's far from our biggest problem, but he has flaws in his game that really cost us at times.

He'd be great on the weak side in a 4-3 with a great MLB to help him out.

I'm not remotely sold on him as a middle linebacker. Never have been. High tackle numbers or not.

Again, I don't "hate" him... I just don't think he's a good fit in the middle.

PRBronco
01-10-2010, 01:58 PM
I'm glad it's been put out there that DJ isn't working on the inside. I think they can still find a use for him though. I know he's not the prototypical body type, but with his athleticism, does anyone else think he'd be well suited to rushing the passer opposite Doom on obvious passing downs? Take the guess work out of it for him, just say "go get the QB".

Popps
01-10-2010, 02:15 PM
Defensive front seven. Ayers, the No. 18 overall draft pick, finished with 17 fewer sacks in his rookie year than Dumervil, now a restricted free agent. Because both were outside linebackers who are defensive ends by trade, the Broncos employed more of a 5-2 defense than 3-4 in Mike Nolan's first season as their defensive coordinator. The Broncos will again search for a true 3-4 outside linebacker who can rush the passer, cover a tight end and disrupt the run. And given the way the Broncos became so passive against the rush in November and December, they may look for a 3-4 inside linebacker who more closely resembles take-on-the-blocker Andra Davis than free-lancing D.J. Williams, and more stoutness at five-technique defensive end and nose tackle.

What a great ****ing write-up this is.

I pray to god he's on-target with his predictions. It's so logical, I can't imagine it going any other way.

Popps
01-10-2010, 02:18 PM
I'm glad it's been put out there that DJ isn't working on the inside. I think they can still find a use for him though. I know he's not the prototypical body type, but with his athleticism, does anyone else think he'd be well suited to rushing the passer opposite Doom on obvious passing downs? Take the guess work out of it for him, just say "go get the QB".

He can't beat anyone once he's engaged. He's phenomenal in open space, but he's done once hands are on him. He'd never beat a lineman one on one.

He's also carrying a huge contract, so keeping him in a reserve role isn't likely. I hear you about his athleticism, but I just don't think he's a long-term solution for anything on this defense.

That said, I think he can be a placeholder while we build things up around him. Particularly if we get more help up front.

Popps
01-10-2010, 02:20 PM
"I know that I'm frustrated and disappointed that we couldn't do more in terms of using Eddie Royal," McDaniels said. "I've been asked that question a bunch. I know Eddie is frustrated with it too. I'm not happy with that, and I don't want that to be the case. We're going to work hard to try to fix that and get that to change dramatically going into next season."

I've been saying this around here. McDaniels is very dedicated to Royal's abilities. He loves the kid, and I think they did really try early in the year to keep him involved. He'll absolutely keep trying to find a way to use his skills.

fontaine
01-10-2010, 02:33 PM
I've heard the same stuff before, whether or not McDaniels actually does something to fix the DL/OL remains to be seen.

I think with Kuper, Harris, and Clady we already have three guys that can get the job done. And along the DL we already have decent players but not difference makers. Start with the draft and fix it.

Although I would love to get Casey Hampton at NT, with Seymour at DE as two DEs that can immediately come in and give us near pro bowl play. That would allow all four LBers to wreak havoc.

Ziggy
01-10-2010, 02:54 PM
I've heard the same stuff before, whether or not McDaniels actually does something to fix the DL/OL remains to be seen.

I think with Kuper, Harris, and Clady we already have three guys that can get the job done. And along the DL we already have decent players but not difference makers. Start with the draft and fix it.

Although I would love to get Casey Hampton at NT, with Seymour at DE as two DEs that can immediately come in and give us near pro bowl play. That would allow all four LBers to wreak havoc.

What makes you think that Seymour won't be franchised? Let's be realistic here.

rastaman
01-10-2010, 03:18 PM
I'm glad it's been put out there that DJ isn't working on the inside. I think they can still find a use for him though. I know he's not the prototypical body type, but with his athleticism, does anyone else think he'd be well suited to rushing the passer opposite Doom on obvious passing downs? Take the guess work out of it for him, just say "go get the QB".

DJ is a great talent. He's kinda like Trevor Pryce in terms of long term talent, and only needs to be shipped to a team that already has a talented defense like what Pryce is playing with in Baltimore.

Hamrob
01-10-2010, 03:36 PM
Defensive front seven. Ayers, the No. 18 overall draft pick, finished with 17 fewer sacks in his rookie year than Dumervil, now a restricted free agent. Because both were outside linebackers who are defensive ends by trade, the Broncos employed more of a 5-2 defense than 3-4 in Mike Nolan's first season as their defensive coordinator. The Broncos will again search for a true 3-4 outside linebacker who can rush the passer, cover a tight end and disrupt the run. And given the way the Broncos became so passive against the rush in November and December, they may look for a 3-4 inside linebacker who more closely resembles take-on-the-blocker Andra Davis than free-lancing D.J. Williams, and more stoutness at five-technique defensive end and nose tackle.

What a great ****ing write-up this is.

I pray to god he's on-target with his predictions. It's so logical, I can't imagine it going any other way.Part of what he's saying...is that Ayers is a bad fit, D.J. is a bad fit and Doom is a bad fit for the 3-4!

Doom is not an OLB, D.J. is not a ILB and Ayers is not an OLB. That's why we were playing a 5-2 the entire year. As soon as the RB cleared the line of scrimmage...he was running 30yds down the field.

You have to have the right personnel to run the 3-4 correctly, you can't have all these hybrids.

Archer81
01-10-2010, 03:38 PM
DJ is a great talent. He's kinda like Trevor Pryce in terms of long term talent, and only needs to be shipped to a team that already has a talented defense like what Pryce is playing with in Baltimore.


You are a Bronco fan? Every single scenario for you involves the Broncos shipping talent out. Have you ever watched football?

:Broncos:

fontaine
01-10-2010, 04:18 PM
What makes you think that Seymour won't be franchised? Let's be realistic here.

I know, I know, but stranger things have happened in Oakland.

Popps
01-10-2010, 04:19 PM
Part of what he's saying...is that Ayers is a bad fit, D.J. is a bad fit and Doom is a bad fit for the 3-4!

Doom is not an OLB, D.J. is not a ILB and Ayers is not an OLB. That's why we were playing a 5-2 the entire year. As soon as the RB cleared the line of scrimmage...he was running 30yds down the field.

You have to have the right personnel to run the 3-4 correctly, you can't have all these hybrids.

He wasn't saying Doom was a poor fit. He was saying he needed help.

As for Ayers, he was saying he wasn't productive a pass-rusher... yet.

Also disagree that you can't have hybrid types in a 3-4. To some extent, the very nature of the system requires versatile players. (DTs who can act as DEs sometimes... OLBs who can put their hand down and take on a tackle, etc.)

You just can't have a guy like DJ Williams playing middle linebacker in any system, imo. That's just a poor fit, no matter what scheme you run.

broncogary
01-10-2010, 04:41 PM
He can't beat anyone once he's engaged. He's phenomenal in open space, but he's done once hands are on him. He'd never beat a lineman one on one.

He's also carrying a huge contract, so keeping him in a reserve role isn't likely. I hear you about his athleticism, but I just don't think he's a long-term solution for anything on this defense.

That said, I think he can be a placeholder while we build things up around him. Particularly if we get more help up front.

Who's the placekicker going to be?

SoCalBronco
01-10-2010, 04:44 PM
Hey...if the Broncos don't want to keep a Pro Bowl alternate LB who was first in team tackles, second in TFL, second in FF, first among LB's in PD and had a career high in sacks, that's their loss, not his. Perhaps some other team would appreciate his contributions and talents more. He doesn't need Denver for anything. He'd have 3/4 of the league lining up to sign him within minutes.

broncogary
01-10-2010, 04:49 PM
Hey...if the Broncos don't want to keep a Pro Bowl alternate LB who was first in team tackles, second in TFL, second in FF, first among LB's in PD and had a career high in sacks, that's their loss, not his. Perhaps some other team would appreciate his contributions and talents more. He doesn't need Denver for anything. He'd have 3/4 of the league lining up to sign him within minutes.

He's not without value, but if we can trade him for what you think he's worth, and it's an uncapped year, it sounds like a good deal.

Hamrob
01-10-2010, 04:57 PM
He wasn't saying Doom was a poor fit. He was saying he needed help.

As for Ayers, he was saying he wasn't productive a pass-rusher... yet.

Also disagree that you can't have hybrid types in a 3-4. To some extent, the very nature of the system requires versatile players. (DTs who can act as DEs sometimes... OLBs who can put their hand down and take on a tackle, etc.)

You just can't have a guy like DJ Williams playing middle linebacker in any system, imo. That's just a poor fit, no matter what scheme you run.They played a 5-2 most of the season...which means they don't have 3-4 personnel. Dumervil is a 3rd down specialist only. Ayers was a disapointment. That's easy enough to understand.

TonyR
01-10-2010, 05:28 PM
As for Ayers, he was saying he wasn't productive a pass-rusher... yet.


Anybody notice the play of Anthony Spencer last night for the Cowboys, and hear how they said he finally starting getting it this season, his 3rd in the league?

Popps
01-10-2010, 10:33 PM
Hey...if the Broncos don't want to keep a Pro Bowl alternate LB who was first in team tackles, second in TFL, second in FF, first among LB's in PD and had a career high in sacks, that's their loss, not his. Perhaps some other team would appreciate his contributions and talents more. He doesn't need Denver for anything. He'd have 3/4 of the league lining up to sign him within minutes.

SoCal, I know it's a personal issue with you, not a football issue... but DJ has holes in his game. It's that simple. However, if you care for him the way you appear to... you really should recognize that inside LB in a 3-4 isn't his natural position.

I like DJ as a human being. I think he's a great athlete. However, I'd love to move him to a team where he'd be a better fit for them... and get something nice in return.

Bigdawg26
01-10-2010, 10:42 PM
I would love to get Hampton as a NT and Seymour as DE and bulk up Ayers and put him as DE (he's much better there). Then we can focus on getting a real speedy OLB and interior O-linemen in the draft.

Popps
01-10-2010, 10:55 PM
Anybody notice the play of Anthony Spencer last night for the Cowboys, and hear how they said he finally starting getting it this season, his 3rd in the league?

Ayers was projected as a guy who would need a few years to develop. So, any sort of major first-year breakout would have been a surprise. He saw regular time, and showed flashes. That's on par with realistic expectations at this stage.

TheDave
01-10-2010, 10:56 PM
Hey...if the Broncos don't want to keep a Pro Bowl alternate LB who was first in team tackles, second in TFL, second in FF, first among LB's in PD and had a career high in sacks, that's their loss, not his. Perhaps some other team would appreciate his contributions and talents more. He doesn't need Denver for anything. He'd have 3/4 of the league lining up to sign him within minutes.

I've been a DJ fan since he got here... IMO he got the **** end of things with position changes almost every year.

Unfortunately, he doesn't fit this defense at all. He just does not take on blocks enough. Time after time I watched him try to run around guards leaving gapping holes for opposing runners. You either take people on at the POA in this defense or you have 259 yard rushing games.

Either we overcompensate with some huge fatties up front or we need to find LB's that can Stack & Shed

LongDongJohnson
01-11-2010, 12:17 AM
im glad that mcdaniels understands that building a championship team starts up front.

we couldnt run the ball. we couldnt stop the run.

thats the reason were sitting at home again and not playing in the playoffs. old man casey weigman and feather weight ben hamilton need to go asap.

LongDongJohnson
01-11-2010, 12:20 AM
Hey...if the Broncos don't want to keep a Pro Bowl alternate LB who was first in team tackles, second in TFL, second in FF, first among LB's in PD and had a career high in sacks, that's their loss, not his. Perhaps some other team would appreciate his contributions and talents more. He doesn't need Denver for anything. He'd have 3/4 of the league lining up to sign him within minutes.

miami homer alert

bpc
01-11-2010, 12:23 AM
They played a 5-2 most of the season...which means they don't have 3-4 personnel. Dumervil is a 3rd down specialist only. Ayers was a disapointment. That's easy enough to understand.

James Harrison was cut three times upon entering the NFL.

I don't think Doom had that bad of a 1st year in the defense, with 17 sacks.

Popps
01-11-2010, 12:25 AM
James Harrison was cut three times upon entering the NFL.

I don't think Doom had that bad of a 1st year in the defense, with 17 sacks.

Doom is not a "third down specialist" in a 3-4.

In a 4-3, maybe.

He's got work to do against the run, but he's starting OLB material in our scheme. No question about it.

montrose
01-11-2010, 12:54 AM
Regarding DJ, some of the out of towners may have missed this, but McDaniels went out of his way to laud and praise the play of Williams on the Josh McDaniels show following his selection to the Pro Bowl as an Alternate.

To the offseason - Mankins would own. He'd instantly make the single weakest position on the team of the 22 starters, a huge strength. I'm a firm believer that improving the OL (and subsuqently the running game) is the single biggest thing that can improve this team. It will make the offense more efficent and keep the defense off the field. The longer our defense played, the more it struggled and that was an effect that mounted with every game played.

My "glass-half-full" approach believes that an improved OL, with Orton having another year in this system and without feeling pressured to get one guy the ball (Marshall) and a healthy Moreno would take enough pressure of the defense, also in it's second year with the new staff, that the Broncos field a more consistent and competitive team.

My offseason plan would begin with the interior OL, ideally getting a big-time LG like Mankins and getting bigger at the C position (Oskie had mentioned something about Olsen at C?). Bring Kuper back on a 1-year tender and get a man-blocking OL coach in here to lead a unit of Clady, the new LG (Mankins!), the new C (maybe Olsen), Kuper and Harris - and the Broncos would see strong results. I think Moreno will be much improved once his knee has had time to fully heal and Orton should be more comfortable in this offense with more time to learn. Assuming Marshall is dealt and Stokley is gone, we're probably looking at a WR corps of Royal, Gaffney and a newcomer with maybe Lloyd as the #4 (and I think you'll see more 4 WR sets with a better OL). Obviously none of those guys is a gamebreaker but we would have the potential to spread the field to some nice route-running WRs similar to the Patriots' championship days.

I could see that offense controlling the ball better and maybe even landing in the lower top-10 range in points scored. On the DL, if either through the draft or FA we can land 1-2 DL to make a nice impact (and bring Holliday back) - I'd like our personal. I'd be all over Mount Cody with the 1st round pick if he's available and try to bring in one starting caliber DE to go with Peterson, McBean and Holliday. I really like what I saw from Ayers as the season progressed and I'm hoping he'll continue to get better. The age of the secondary concerns me, mostly at CB as McBath, Barrett and Bruton look like young studs. Alphonso's going to have to make some plays, which is what he was drafted to do. The game looked really fast to him this year so I could see him making a jump next year but overall - I don't think anything could help our defense more than an improved running game that can reduce their time spent on the field.

Broncos_OTM
01-11-2010, 01:41 AM
It's interesting to me...that most of the so-called draft gurus happen to be saying we should draft a LB and/or a DE with our #1.

You hardly hear anyone talking about our NT or lack there of. I agree we could use a 5 technique DE and a OLB who can rush the passer and of course replacing Davis soon makes sense as well. But, to me...we need a monster in the middle at NT.

Perhaps we get Pickett in free agency and don't have to focus on NT in the draft...but absent of that...we need a NT somehow.

At #10 we'll have to take either McClain or a DE. We'd be reaching for a OLB at that draft position and Cody would be a reach there as well. So, we either take a DE or McClain at #10 (outside chance we take a QB). OR;

We trade back and take Cody and the best Guard/Center available.

I really think we can improve our team this offseason and if McDaniels can grow himself and improve his playcalling....we'll be in the playoffs next year.

We absolutely have to have: Moreno, Ayers & Smith make bigger contributions next year. All three guys were less than impressive in their rookie seasons.
The reason why you see LB and DE in alot of Denver mocks are becuase well you stated it. Denver would be very wise to move down if at all possible. and spend most of the picks in the trenches.

It has also been coming out of GB that Picket and the pack are working on a extension.

This is gonna be bare bones in FA. I expect alot of trades. I also imagine our draft picks will be very differant.

dbfan21
01-11-2010, 07:45 AM
I like the idea of taking McClain, he seems to me like a can't miss pick. If Gerald McCoy falls to there then he'd be ideal, IMO.

That said, I agree that a quality NT would be a huge addition to the team. I think Fields is serviceable, but not really a difference maker by any means. He'd be a great #2 NT, but as the starter not so much.

If we can get a late #1 back if we trade Marshall, I'd love to see Cody be the guy we pick up.

Rep! I would love to see McClain in orange & blue! I didn't watch much Bama football this year, but he was huge against Texas. He's big, fast and plays through the whistle. Then, to be able to get back into the first round via Marshall trade and land Cody at NT would send me through the roof with enthusiasm. Then we could focus the next few rounds on the interior O-line and WR.

TonyR
01-11-2010, 07:48 AM
Wilfork begins to look at uncertain future
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 11, 2010 9:15 AM ET

Vince Wilfork is one of the few defensive cornerstones the Patriots have left. Now Wilfork is wondering if he'll join some of his well known former teammates on the way out of Foxborough.

"As the time ticked off that clock, it kinda dawned on me,'' Wilfork said after Sunday's beatdown.

"I told my teammates, the guys I play with on that defense, 'I don't know if this is the last game I play with you or not, but if it is, man, I love you and I'm gonna miss you.' We'll go from here and see what happens," Wilfork said.

We hate to break Wilfork's bubble, but he's not going anywhere. He's ultimately the most valuable player on the defense, and the team has the right to place the franchise tag on him.

Former PFT scribe Tom Curran mentioned the possible use of the tag to Wilfork Sunday: "Of course I won't like it," Wilfork said.

Barring a long-term contract extension, Wilfork may have to get used to the notion.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/11/wilfork-begins-to-look-at-uncertain-future/

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-11-2010, 07:53 AM
The most frustrating thing about this is why just think about it after the season? Why not try something new to fix it IN season, especially when we were struggling so bad down the stretch?

Head coach, offensive coordinator... it's a tough job... but if you're going to do both, you better have your head on straight and be able to think outside the box and objectively look at the personnel and find roles for them and how best to use their talents.

You could argue about many misused players during this season. Eddie Royal is just the most apparent. You could also point to the failure at the offensive line, short yard running game, etc, etc, etc.

McDaniels is very green as a head coach.

You honestly don't think he tried to fix it in-season, bpc? I mean, you really believe that?

Good grief. You talk about McD being "green."

HorseHead
01-11-2010, 08:09 AM
I'm preety sure Spencer (Anthony, Cowboys) is in his 2nd year...

Logan Mankins is a beast...

TonyR
01-11-2010, 08:26 AM
I'm preety sure Spencer (Anthony, Cowboys) is in his 2nd year...


Nope. 3rd year. Rookie in '07.

http://www.nfl.com/players/anthonyspencer/profile?id=SPE434038

PRBronco
01-11-2010, 09:22 AM
Wilfork begins to look at uncertain future
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 11, 2010 9:15 AM ET

Vince Wilfork is one of the few defensive cornerstones the Patriots have left. Now Wilfork is wondering if he'll join some of his well known former teammates on the way out of Foxborough.

"As the time ticked off that clock, it kinda dawned on me,'' Wilfork said after Sunday's beatdown.

"I told my teammates, the guys I play with on that defense, 'I don't know if this is the last game I play with you or not, but if it is, man, I love you and I'm gonna miss you.' We'll go from here and see what happens," Wilfork said.

We hate to break Wilfork's bubble, but he's not going anywhere. He's ultimately the most valuable player on the defense, and the team has the right to place the franchise tag on him.

Former PFT scribe Tom Curran mentioned the possible use of the tag to Wilfork Sunday: "Of course I won't like it," Wilfork said.

Barring a long-term contract extension, Wilfork may have to get used to the notion.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/11/wilfork-begins-to-look-at-uncertain-future/


Lol, Wilfork is such a dirty bastard, I was trying to keep an eye on him during the Pats game. I'd just love to have a player that mean on our D line, let alone that good.

The Joker
01-11-2010, 09:40 AM
Mankins is a RFA, why on earth would the Pats let him walk when he can be kept dirt cheap for another year?

It's just not going to happen people.

TonyR
01-11-2010, 09:44 AM
Mankins... It's just not going to happen people.

Completely agree. If there is no CBA deal then the odds of us getting him approach 0. Reminds me a little of people thinking we had a shot to get Peppers or Bart Scott last year.

bloodsunday
01-11-2010, 10:31 AM
First of all, I finally believe we will do this. We've needed to for several seasons now.

Secondly, I find the idea that we might "move" DJ Williams interesting. Do we move his position or move him to another team?

bloodsunday
01-11-2010, 10:34 AM
They played a 5-2 most of the season...which means they don't have 3-4 personnel. Dumervil is a 3rd down specialist only. Ayers was a disapointment. That's easy enough to understand.

Ayers is only a rookie and didn't play much in college. He's a bit of a project and we shouldn't read too much into his 1 season, IMO. They drafted him to be part of a 3 - 4 system, and most draft "gurus" projected him to 3 - 4 teams. So we also shouldn't assume he doesn't fit that system.