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Denver724
01-09-2010, 05:44 PM
Greene sure looked good today.

gtown
01-09-2010, 05:49 PM
Yeah he looked good. But NYJ have four first rounders starting on their Oline. It's a novel idea: having talent on your lines will help those behind the line. It's why the Hillis bandwagon sinks while trying to ford the Platte River.

Broncosfreak_56
01-09-2010, 05:53 PM
Plus they have Foneco.

Bronco Yoda
01-09-2010, 05:55 PM
That's why we needed more Hillis BECAUSE the O-line was getting pushed around. Power to compensate a weak O-line. What a novel idea eh?

bpc
01-09-2010, 05:57 PM
There is no covering this up, Shonn Greene is a better pure runner vs. Knowshon.

Knowshon is easily the better pass receiver though.

Better value with Greene vs. Knowshon in my opinion.

epa86b@netzero
01-09-2010, 05:58 PM
Yeah he looked good. But NYJ have four first rounders starting on their Oline. It's a novel idea: having talent on your lines will help those behind the line. It's why the Hillis bandwagon sinks while trying to ford the Platte River.

I picked up on the same idea that NYJ had four 1st rounders on the offensive line. Thus, they were able to play defense and run the ball on offense. This past season, we were able to play defensive fairly well but we could not run the ball effectively and consistently on offense.

rmsanger
01-09-2010, 05:59 PM
Greene is hands down a better runner. He possesses better vision and has a much better burst through the hole. I'd say his future looks much briter and much longer than noShawn.

Dagmar
01-09-2010, 05:59 PM
http://www.facepalm.org/img.php

go_broncos
01-09-2010, 06:04 PM
Big mistake in taking Moreno..He is slow runner. I would have taken Moreno in 2nd or 3rd round.

WABronco
01-09-2010, 06:05 PM
Go broncos I agree, but only to an extent. I'm talking 2nd day.

yhova
01-09-2010, 06:06 PM
Everyone's third string running back > Moreno

Florida_Bronco
01-09-2010, 06:07 PM
Yeah he looked good. But NYJ have four first rounders starting on their Oline. It's a novel idea: having talent on your lines will help those behind the line. It's why the Hillis bandwagon sinks while trying to ford the Platte River.

End thread. :thumbs:

bpc
01-09-2010, 06:08 PM
Shonn Greene proved that he was going to be an impact power runner at Iowa. He's a hammer that you bring into the game who will wear teams down, a legitimate 20-25 carry HB. NYJ's don't need him to do that right now because Thomas Jones is one of the top 5 HB's in the league.

Still, he looks much more explosive than Knowshon does.

ludo21
01-09-2010, 06:25 PM
I agree, Moreno was a wasted #1 pick. Sucks, but its what happens when you only look at 30 or so players like our staff did

misturanderson
01-09-2010, 06:28 PM
How weird that this thread became a McD-basher circle jerk.

go_broncos
01-09-2010, 06:29 PM
If we take a RB in 1st round, he better make the offense better.
He doesn't have a single 100 yards rushing. For him to be successful, we need to have a great O-line. We didn't have a single rookie impact player taken in 1st 3 rounds.

Trading up to take A.smith and Quinn sucks.

LRtagger
01-09-2010, 06:30 PM
I agree, Moreno was a wasted #1 pick. Sucks, but its what happens when you only look at 30 or so players like our staff did

Yea the Broncos staff were the only scouts who had Moreno as a 1st round talent...All other teams and draft experts had him as a day two pick because their big boards had more players on them.

Archer81
01-09-2010, 06:33 PM
Yea the Broncos staff were the only scouts who had Moreno as a 1st round talent...All other teams and draft experts had him as a day two pick because their big boards had more players on them.


:kiddingme


:Broncos:

Hamrob
01-09-2010, 06:34 PM
I was frustrated alot with Moreno this year. He just looked lost most of the time. He hesitated too much and never exploded through the hole. He's not a fast back...probably a 4.7 guy realistically. He can't get outside on pitches, so you have to run him up the middle. The problem is, he's too small and gets blown up too easily. His best hope is to learn to run north and south and to hit the hole hard...and then look to make a move. He tries to get cute in the back field before he hits the hole...which resulted in so many negative yardarge runs this year.

He's a rookie...so the jury is still out. He ran for nearly 1,000 yds at 4yds a carry...so even us nay sayers need to give the kid a break. Let's see how he looks next year before we say he was a waste of a first round pick. Note to file.

gtown
01-09-2010, 06:35 PM
This is apples and oranges. You can't compare Greene and Moreno unless their running behind the same line. Watch the second half of the season. It's amazing how bad our run blocking was. We have one great player on the oline, Clady.

As for the Jets, Foneco and Mangold are Pro Bowlers this year, Damien Woody has been a Pro Bowler, and Dbrick Ferguson will eventually be one. You're gonna say Knowshon is gonna be running into the backs of those guys?

go_broncos
01-09-2010, 06:40 PM
This is apples and oranges. You can't compare Greene and Moreno unless their running behind the same line. Watch the second half of the season. It's amazing how bad our run blocking was. We have one great player on the oline, Clady.

As for the Jets, Foneco and Mangold are Pro Bowlers this year, Damien Woody has been a Pro Bowler, and Dbrick Ferguson will eventually be one. You're gonna say Knowshon is gonna be running into the backs of those guys?

According to you, we need Pro Bowl offensive line for Moreno to be successful.
Then, we should have taken RB in 2nd or 3rd round.

Florida_Bronco
01-09-2010, 06:46 PM
I agree, Moreno was a wasted #1 pick. Sucks, but its what happens when you only look at 30 or so players like our staff did

Come on Ludo, you are a way better poster than that.

Archer81
01-09-2010, 06:50 PM
According to you, we need Pro Bowl offensive line for Moreno to be successful.
Then, we should have taken RB in 2nd or 3rd round.


So now its McDaniel's fault because he did not forsee his offensive line caving in late in the year? Last season it was all about getting a 3 down back and the offense would be complete and candy would rain from the heavens and rivers would turn to peppermint schnaps in Colorado.

Quite simply, the NYJ have signed or drafted talented players to play along their offensive line. As a result, they have one of the better rushing attacks in the NFL, and have had success with a rookie QB because of it. The Broncos offensive line has great talent at the tackles and aging small guys at center and left guard. Until we solidify the interior of our offensive line, any back we put behind them will not get it done.

:Broncos:

gtown
01-09-2010, 06:52 PM
According to you, we need Pro Bowl offensive line for Moreno to be successful.
Then, we should have taken RB in 2nd or 3rd round.

Not necessarily a perennial Pro Bowl line, but a healthy and relatively proficient one. That means younger and better replacements for Weigmann and Hamilton, and a healthy Harris. Plus Orton doesn't do much to justify not stacking the box against the Broncos.

Moreno will get better. Lots of RBs jump the gap from year 1 to year 2. See Ray Rice and Mendenhall. The only that gets me about him is that he might be injury prone. Can't count the number of times he got up gimpy this year.

WABronco
01-09-2010, 06:54 PM
It just eases the tension! Keep posting! Be gone Moreno!

Drek
01-09-2010, 07:18 PM
Wow. Who drove the short bus into this thread and herded all you semi-sentient mouth breathing clowns off it?

This board isn't really worth spending time on if this is what passes for football discussion.

gtown
01-09-2010, 07:22 PM
Wow. Who drove the short bus into this thread and herded all you semi-sentient mouth breathing clowns off it?

This board isn't really worth spending time on if this is what passes for football discussion.

I thought we were in offseason retard mode?! Does this put the kibosh on my swine flu>Moreno thread?

ludo21
01-09-2010, 07:27 PM
Come on Ludo, you are a way better poster than that.

Wasnt that what came out after the draft? That our board was extremely small?

I still think Moreno will be solid, but not #1 solid. He is not a real gamebreaker.

bpc
01-09-2010, 07:29 PM
Shonn Greene has two 100 yd games this year.

jhat01
01-09-2010, 07:33 PM
Big mistake in taking Moreno..He is slow runner. I would have taken Moreno in 2nd or 3rd round.

Are you ****ing serious? You're b****ing about a guy a sneeze from 4 ypc about 1000 yards and 7 touchdowns here. 3rd round? I'll agree Greene looked explosive tonight, I also think Moreno looked explosive early in the season as well. He had dead legs late in the year IMO. Not one single GM or coach had Moreno as 3rd round talent. Not a chance.

Some of you guys just blow my mind. And BTW...4.62 vs. 4.65 in favor of Moreno.

Florida_Bronco
01-09-2010, 07:52 PM
Wasnt that what came out after the draft? That our board was extremely small? I don't remember exactly what the number was but yes, we had a pretty small list of players on our draft board yes, but that was because McDaniels had identified the players that fit the type of system and environment he was bringing to Denver. It does NOT mean we didn't scout a lot more players.

I still think Moreno will be solid, but not #1 solid. He is not a real gamebreaker. See, we both know it's way too early to be making those claims.

Like I said man, you're a better poster than that. :-)

Florida_Bronco
01-09-2010, 07:53 PM
Wow. Who drove the short bus into this thread and herded all you semi-sentient mouth breathing clowns off it?

This board isn't really worth spending time on if this is what passes for football discussion.

Pretty sad isn't it?

ludo21
01-09-2010, 07:55 PM
I hope so man. His top speed has not looked all that great...thus the lack of game breaking ability.

Either way, I am glad we have him and hope he improves, which I am sure he will.

Broncoman13
01-09-2010, 07:57 PM
Greene sure looked good today.

Ferguson, Foneco, Mangold... need I say more?

Florida_Bronco
01-09-2010, 07:59 PM
I hope so man. His top speed has not looked all that great...thus the lack of game breaking ability.

Either way, I am glad we have him and hope he improves, which I am sure he will.

Top speed is extremely overrated. Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson were all "slow" backs but they outperformed "speedy" backs like Tatum Bell.

watermock
01-09-2010, 08:02 PM
Buillshiat. Green hits the hole better and stronger.

Just as I said before the draft.

There were questions about his knees.

Broncoman13
01-09-2010, 08:03 PM
Buillshiat. Green hits the hole better and stronger.

Just as I said before the draft.

There were questions about his knees.

When did Moreno have a hole to hit???

watermock
01-09-2010, 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by Drek
Wow. Who drove the short bus into this thread and herded all you semi-sentient mouth breathing clowns off it?

This board isn't really worth spending time on if this is what passes for football discussion.

How amusing not to realize the 09 draft was a complete bust.

Idiot.

watermock
01-09-2010, 08:05 PM
When did Moreno have a hole to hit???

He would of in 08. Idiot.

watermock
01-09-2010, 08:09 PM
Top speed is extremely overrated. Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson were all "slow" backs but they outperformed "speedy" backs like Tatum Bell.


Greene isn't a speed back. That's why he waited till the 3rd.

And disrespect for the big 10.

How's Stafford doing?

watermock
01-09-2010, 08:10 PM
Portris did pretty well.

Next?

Second leading all time.

Popps
01-09-2010, 08:13 PM
We'll see where Moreno is once we can block consistently. He looked great at times, and like he had things to learn at other times.

I do know this... every year there are a few RBs that outperform guys taken in front of them. Moreno very well may not end up the best in this draft class. As long as he's productive, I don't care. All you can do is take the best option you see, and he was the consensus best option.

bpc
01-09-2010, 08:18 PM
Moreno is going to have a Sammy Winder type career.

watermock
01-09-2010, 08:21 PM
Moreno is going to have a Sammy Winder type career.

Stop stealing my quotes.

He's just slightly more explosive.

He's easier to take down tho.

Horrible choice over Orakapo, or Cushing, or trading for Smith...

The Broncos draft was FAIL.

jhat01
01-09-2010, 08:38 PM
Moreno is going to have a Sammy Winder type career.

So you've decided after a couple hundred carries that he's going to be a 40yd per game back? Are you still a pro scout? The guy was the most complete back coming out of college last year. Played well in the best Conf. in college FB.

After a year when he had more ypg than Forte, Kevin Smith, Pierre Thomas, Brandon Jacobs, Addai, and LT?

same amt of TDs as Ray Rice, D'Williams, and one more than Benson?

Based on this years stats..Greene @ 38 ypg will have a Sammy Winder typr career..silly huh?

Pony Boy
01-09-2010, 08:43 PM
The Broncos draft was FAIL.

This whole thread is a FAIL

watermock
01-09-2010, 08:47 PM
It's also where he was taken moron.

We could of had Cushing, Orakapo and Greene.

watermock
01-09-2010, 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by bpc
Moreno is going to have a Sammy Winder type career.

No, what I think we are saying is Winder reminds us very much like Moreno.

Winder wasa a good back, but wasn't taken #12.That's all.

And people that have knowledge see similarities.

OKayyye?

jhat01
01-09-2010, 08:55 PM
It's also where he was taken moron.

We could of had Cushing, Orakapo and Greene.

Whatever you fat faced prick. You're saying he's going to have a below average career based on some fantasy in your ****ed up brain housing group. The guy had a good year, every year there are guys that you wished you drafted. I'm sure you knew all along what kind of years these guys would have...Just STFU

jhat01
01-09-2010, 08:56 PM
Or maybe that's not what your saying...i cant tell with your jibberish

Captain 'Dre
01-09-2010, 08:58 PM
There is no covering this up, Shonn Greene is a better pure runner vs. Knowshon.

Knowshon is easily the better pass receiver though.

Better value with Greene vs. Knowshon in my opinion.

The thing that concerns me about Knowshon is that at 205-210 pounds, he's really NOT a big back at all, and while he's not SLOW, he's not a speed burner. This gives me some concerns about his long range durability.

He can't make holes to run through on his own. I see him as more of a complimentary weapon than a true go-to guy.

Hopefully, the team gets built in such a way that there are a variety of offensive weapons to distribute the ball to. That's the environment in which Knowshon can be most effective.

And hopefully, he won't be all beat up by the time the complementary talent is assembled around him.

DBroncos4life
01-09-2010, 08:59 PM
Yeah he looked good. But NYJ have four first rounders starting on their Oline. It's a novel idea: having talent on your lines will help those behind the line. It's why the Hillis bandwagon sinks while trying to ford the Platte River.

It's really not that deep anymore. :)

rastaman
01-09-2010, 09:01 PM
I picked up on the same idea that NYJ had four 1st rounders on the offensive line. Thus, they were able to play defense and run the ball on offense. This past season, we were able to play defensive fairly well but we could not run the ball effectively and consistently on offense.

How do you run the ball consistently when Defenses can pack 8 on the LOS b/c our passing game is no threat b/c of McD's predictable offensive play calling and Orton's limited passing abilities?

Also, McD inherited a ZBS Offensive line, yet McD decided to force his power blocking scheme on the OL.

Doesn't make any sense.

watermock
01-09-2010, 09:02 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=1172&dateline=1073945773

Whatever.

rastaman
01-09-2010, 09:02 PM
The thing that concerns me about Knowshon is that at 205-210 pounds, he's really NOT a big back at all, and while he's not SLOW, he's not a speed burner. This gives me some concerns about his long range durability.

He can't make holes to run through on his own. I see him as more of a complimentary weapon than a true go-to guy.

Hopefully, the team gets built in such a way that there are a variety of offensive weapons to distribute the ball to. That's the environment in which Knowshon can be most effective.

And hopefully, he won't be all beat up by the time the complementary talent is assembled around him.

I think McD over reached with drafting Moreno 12th overall in the draft. Time will tell---I guess.

rastaman
01-09-2010, 09:04 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=1172&dateline=1073945773

Whatever.

The truth is obvious.:thumbs:

Popps
01-09-2010, 09:04 PM
I think McD over reached with drafting Moreno 12th overall in the draft. Time will tell---I guess.

So, you're not interested in getting Moreno out of town to get him a better contract?

Why is it different for him?

jhat01
01-09-2010, 09:06 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=1172&dateline=1073945773

Whatever.

You forgot Idiot, or Moron to end your post. Go **** yourself...you're a Caricature.

rastaman
01-09-2010, 09:06 PM
So, you're not interested in getting Moreno out of town to get him a better contract?

Why is it different for him?

First time I heard this argument from you! Where are you basing this opinion from?

Popps
01-09-2010, 09:09 PM
First time I heard this argument from you! Where are you basing this opinion from?

Don't know... I just thought that was your thing.

If Moreno's having problems, I just figured like other guys you've taken up for... you'd want to get him out of Denver so he could succeed.

No?

rastaman
01-09-2010, 09:09 PM
Popps are you still there?

rastaman
01-09-2010, 09:12 PM
Don't know... I just thought that was your thing.

If Moreno's having problems, I just figured like other guys you've taken up for... you'd want to get him out of Denver so he could succeed.

No?

You thought wrong.....and you made a mistake by assuming as usual. Moreno is McD's boy and of course you'll carry water for Moreno b/c McD has told you to do so. So whats knew!:sunshine:

jhat01
01-09-2010, 09:16 PM
So Rasta..Is Speardog your alter ego, or Mock's...You know, the phantom rep whore that doesn't post out in the open? You guys are a riot!

watermock
01-09-2010, 09:22 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1fuDDqU6n4o&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1fuDDqU6n4o&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>.

Florida_Bronco
01-09-2010, 09:25 PM
The thing that concerns me about Knowshon is that at 205-210 pounds, he's really NOT a big back at all, and while he's not SLOW, he's not a speed burner. This gives me some concerns about his long range durability.

He can't make holes to run through on his own. I see him as more of a complimentary weapon than a true go-to guy.

Hopefully, the team gets built in such a way that there are a variety of offensive weapons to distribute the ball to. That's the environment in which Knowshon can be most effective.

And hopefully, he won't be all beat up by the time the complementary talent is assembled around him.

Just FYI, Terrell Davis played at 210 lbs.

azbroncfan
01-09-2010, 09:27 PM
Just FYI, Terrell Davis played at 210 lbs.

Terrell might of ran slow at the combine but he was explosive and fast on gameday. Moreno has yet to show that and it surprises me since he looked pretty fast during games at Georgia. I guess it is just the difference in College to the Pros.

Pony Boy
01-09-2010, 09:27 PM
you're a Caricature.

Wow.. I bet you hurt Mock's feelings with that one ........This is better than a cripple fight....

rastaman
01-09-2010, 09:27 PM
So Rasta..Is Speardog your alter ego, or Mock's...You know, the phantom rep whore that doesn't post out in the open? You guys are a riot!

Hi Homer....how many lines of coke did you snort this eveing?:~ohyah!:

watermock
01-09-2010, 09:29 PM
And Portis played at 190.

The point is a line that opened holes in 08 for a TMobile rep, couldn't opem 1 yard for our prize RB.

rastaman
01-09-2010, 09:33 PM
There was nothing wrong with the 2009 Denver Bronco OL player wise.....McD was ultimately the problem b/c of his archiac offensive philosophy.

jhat01
01-09-2010, 09:38 PM
Hi Homer....how many lines of coke did you snort this eveing?:~ohyah!:

The wording in the rep sounds a bit like yours though no?

"If he lost his legs then why did the great McD keep starting him when he had fresher RB running for better YPC?"

Just a guess though. And I don't touch the stuff RastaSally. I just wonder why people use alt accounts to rep and post with. Seems like something a panty waist would do, no?

watermock
01-09-2010, 09:39 PM
Wow.. I bet you hurt Mock's feelings with that one ........This is better than a cripple fight....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWk6RgQbPVc

jhat01
01-09-2010, 09:43 PM
Wow.. I bet you hurt Mock's feelings with that one ........This is better than a cripple fight....

I'm sure he understands..Not sure you do though. Anyways, I'm not out to hurt anyone's feelings. Just pointing out how he insults every poster that he doesn't agree with.

rastaman
01-09-2010, 09:47 PM
The wording in the rep sounds a bit like yours though no?

"If he lost his legs then why did the great McD keep starting him when he had fresher RB running for better YPC?"

Just a guess though. And I don't touch the stuff RastaSally. I just wonder why people use alt accounts to rep and post with. Seems like something a panty waist would do, no?

Gee why all the paranoia coming from you so suddenly? How many alt accounts do you have (Not that I care).;)

Have you stopped taking your medication?

watermock
01-09-2010, 09:48 PM
Pony Boy...did Mommy name you that?

Just curious.

Bronco Yoda
01-09-2010, 09:51 PM
No, what I think we are saying is Winder reminds us very much like Moreno.

Winder wasa a good back, but wasn't taken #12.That's all.

And people that have knowledge see similarities.

OKayyye?

You have to understand that many of these peeps never saw Winder. Probably don't even know who he is. I see people here all over Moreno's jock that think he's the next TD even though you know they probably barely saw him play.

jhat01
01-09-2010, 09:51 PM
Gee why all the paranoia coming from you so suddenly? How many alt accounts do you have (Not that I care).;)

Have you stopped taking your medication?

Why all the cutesy woman like responses tonight? Paranoia? Just an observation. I don't understand the logic is all.

Bronco Yoda
01-09-2010, 09:55 PM
Just FYI, Terrell Davis played at 210 lbs.

Did you even see TD play at Georgia or as a rook?

bpc
01-09-2010, 09:56 PM
The thing that concerns me about Knowshon is that at 205-210 pounds, he's really NOT a big back at all, and while he's not SLOW, he's not a speed burner. This gives me some concerns about his long range durability.

He can't make holes to run through on his own. I see him as more of a complimentary weapon than a true go-to guy.

Hopefully, the team gets built in such a way that there are a variety of offensive weapons to distribute the ball to. That's the environment in which Knowshon can be most effective.

And hopefully, he won't be all beat up by the time the complementary talent is assembled around him.

Knowshon was a slasher in college, who made some highlight plays with his quickness. We all remember Knowshon made a ton of money with "the leap". He also was adept at catching the ball out of the backfield. Always a nice attritube in today's offensive game.

What people failed to realize is that Moreno runs upright, is slow, and his highlight reel runs in college, aren't going to cut it in the pro's where everybody is .2-.4 seconds faster than the fastest in the SEC. We've all seen his east/west dancing this year. He needs to ditch it.

Moreno was trying to run like a finesse back this year as if he has speed on defenders. That's not going to cut it. He needs to learn to just hit it up into the LOS sometimes and if he gets 3 yds, so be it. Stop dancing. Positive yardage and get every bit that he can.

Speed is never going to come to him so if you all are expecting Moreno to find another gear, forget about it. He's a quick back 0-10 yds. He can squirt out of the LOS but his 3rd and 4th gears are missing which is why he never really had 20 yd runs or longer. That isn't the line's fault, that's Moreno's.

Knowshon needs to decide what he wants to be in the NFL... a speed back or power back... since we already ruled his 4.68 speed out, he better start learning to buck people over. I would suggest he spend some time in the weight room doing squats and deadlifts. He tried to run a few people over this season and it's pretty much embarassing to watch as he normally goes down on first contact. A good year in the gym though could benefit him. He could bulk up to 220, 225, solid weight and then his slow 40 time doesn't become as big of a factor.

Hopefully by then we'll have this iso blocking scheme figured out with some better interior line guys and he can have more of an impact next year.

In my opinion, Knowshon doesn't look like more than a 1200 yd per season guy, at his best. I think he'll need a backfield mate ball and chained to him as well.

Pony Boy
01-09-2010, 09:56 PM
I'm sure he understands..Not sure you do though. Anyways, I'm not out to hurt anyone's feelings. Just pointing out how he insults every poster that he doesn't agree with.

It's all good... I just hit me funny when you called Mock a Caricature ....:rofl:

Pony Boy
01-09-2010, 10:01 PM
Knowshon was a slasher in college, who made some highlight plays with his quickness. We all remember Knowshon made a ton of money with "the leap". He also was adept at catching the ball out of the backfield. Always a nice attritube in today's offensive game.

What people failed to realize is that Moreno runs upright, is slow, and his highlight reel runs in college, aren't going to cut it in the pro's where everybody is .2-.4 seconds faster than the fastest in the SEC. We've all seen his east/west dancing this year. He needs to ditch it.

Moreno was trying to run like a finesse back this year as if he has speed on defenders. That's not going to cut it. He needs to learn to just hit it up into the LOS sometimes and if he gets 3 yds, so be it. Stop dancing. Positive yardage and get every bit that he can.

Speed is never going to come to him so if you all are expecting Moreno to find another gear, forget about it. He's a quick back 0-10 yds. He can squirt out of the LOS but his 3rd and 4th gears are missing which is why he never really had 20 yd runs or longer. That isn't the line's fault, that's Moreno's.

Knowshon needs to decide what he wants to be in the NFL... a speed back or power back... since we already ruled his 4.68 speed out, he better start learning to buck people over. I would suggest he spend some time in the weight room doing squats and deadlifts. He tried to run a few people over this season and it's pretty much embarassing to watch as he normally goes down on first contact. A good year in the gym though could benefit him. He could bulk up to 220, 225, solid weight and then his slow 40 time doesn't become as big of a factor.

Hopefully by then we'll have this iso blocking scheme figured out with some better interior line guys and he can have more of an impact next year.

In my opinion, Knowshon doesn't look like more than a 1200 yd per season guy, at his best. I think he'll need a backfield mate ball and chained to him as well.

Your sure not a man of few words...... you wear my ass out when you post.....

WolfpackGuy
01-09-2010, 10:04 PM
Moreno is not and never will be as fast as TD.

Not at deciding, cutting, running, anything.

jhat01
01-09-2010, 10:05 PM
You have to understand that many of these peeps never saw Winder. Probably don't even know who he is. I see people here all over Moreno's jock that think he's the next TD even though you know they probably barely saw him play.

I think it's a little more simple than that. Winder had a couple productive years, what 1000 or so yards once or twice. Could catch the ball...but to get down to it, he was a 40 yard per game RB.

I just don't see how that distinction can be made after a couple hundred carries. Does he run like him? I don't remember, I was 8 in 1984.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't say I'm "on his jock"..I thought he wore down as the year went on..I thought he was plenty strong and explosive to the hole early, I saw the carpet tackle him on numerous occasions in Indy. Did McD press with him? Maybe, but another discussion.

It's easy to say we wasted the pick on him, but I think getting 9 total Tds and 60ish yards/game out of a rookie is not a waste.

Popps
01-09-2010, 10:09 PM
Knowshon showed a lot of promise, and at times looked indecisive. But, I'll attribute a good deal of that to there being 3 guys there with him to take the snap on every other play.

Go back and look at the Oakland, Dallas and NE games this year... and you'll see the kind of production I think we will get from him, and more. He's a pounding runner when he can get a head of steam.

I think he'll need a change of pace back to work with, but I think he'll be a very productive 1st and 2nd down runner for us.

bpc
01-09-2010, 10:15 PM
So you've decided after a couple hundred carries that he's going to be a 40yd per game back? Are you still a pro scout? The guy was the most complete back coming out of college last year. Played well in the best Conf. in college FB.

After a year when he had more ypg than Forte, Kevin Smith, Pierre Thomas, Brandon Jacobs, Addai, and LT?

same amt of TDs as Ray Rice, D'Williams, and one more than Benson?

Based on this years stats..Greene @ 38 ypg will have a Sammy Winder typr career..silly huh?

Winder had some good years. Never great outside of one season though. I think he topped out at 1200 yds and was a impact guy on 3rd down because he could catch the ball.

Knowshon to me is a tweener (not a power guy, not a speed guy) but he can stay on the field all three downs. That's the good.

He's also a high effort guy, which I respect, but he runs too hard, too high, and too slow. He had injury problems dating back to Georgia and he's already had them here. I don't think that's going to lessen as he takes over the starters share of carries in the backfield.

His speed isn't going to allow him to break many long runs which is going to hurt his yardage. Having a noodle arm QB in the backfield that hesitates to throw farther than 15 yds is going to compress the running lanes because teams are going to play to clog the running lanes and take away a majority of our short throws as well.

His power isn't going to allow him to break many tackles at this point and time. He can at least change that.

Denver could improve it's line and it could make his decent traits better.

There is nothing that blew me away about Moreno's career at UGA. He had a few highlight plays. Nice.

Injuries and speed concerns made wonder about his overall impact on the game and this season did not help. You know how easy it is to get 1000 yds? 62.5 yds rushing per game.

Do I think he's a 40 ypg back? No, I think he's slighty better. Maybe 50 yds per game.

BTW, Knowshon came out in a year of desperation at HB, which is why he was picked so high. Moreno doesn't have near the skill level that CJ or Rice had coming out of college and they were drafted end of the 1st round, early 2nd. Sad fact but we reached for an area we felt was a need could have had just as nice value in round 3 with Shonn Greene. His game is better suited for the pro's as well. Especially in a cold weather city.

Bronco Yoda
01-09-2010, 10:19 PM
Good post bpc. There is hope for this world after all. On that ...good night all. :)

Florida_Bronco
01-09-2010, 10:21 PM
Knowshon showed a lot of promise, and at times looked indecisive. But, I'll attribute a good deal of that to there being 3 guys there with him to take the snap on every other play.

Go back and look at the Oakland, Dallas and NE games this year... and you'll see the kind of production I think we will get from him, and more. He's a pounding runner when he can get a head of steam.

I think he'll need a change of pace back to work with, but I think he'll be a very productive 1st and 2nd down runner for us.

Agreed. Also keep in mind that the Pats have always used complimentary backs so there is no reason to think we won't have that here in Denver as well. :thumbsup:

bowtown
01-09-2010, 10:24 PM
He had injury problems dating back to Georgia

Not true.

bpc
01-09-2010, 10:25 PM
Moreno is not and never will be as fast as TD.

Not at deciding, cutting, running, anything.

TD wasn't fast. He was explosive, and he had great vision, balance and toughness.

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Man, TD and Shanny offenses used to make it look so EASY! Seeing something like this would be like a dying man finding water in a dessert with this offense.

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WolfpackGuy
01-09-2010, 10:30 PM
TD wasn't fast. He was explosive, and he had great vision, balance and toughness.


Agreed, but I said he was certainly faster than Moreno.

Tune into to ESPN2.

Popps
01-09-2010, 10:30 PM
\ You know how easy it is to get 1000 yds? 62.5 yds rushing per game. .

You also have to look at how many carries he's getting per game. A guy has to have the chances to get rolling and in many games this year, he just hasn't gotten enough carries.

He's averaging right at 4 yards per carry. Not stellar, but not crappy, either.

You're right in the notion that he's no Adrian Peterson. But, he may well be productive in the Emmit Smith mold if we get some blocking in front of him.
He's not a darter, so guys are going to have to be able to hold their blocks for a second.


Give the kid another season before you stamp the ****ing scarlet letter on him. Look at guys like Cedric Benson. Sometimes this stuff takes a little time.

Popps
01-09-2010, 10:35 PM
Agreed. Also keep in mind that the Pats have always used complimentary backs so there is no reason to think we won't have that here in Denver as well. :thumbsup:

Our top 2 backs ran for just under 1600 yards. Not great... but about in the middle of the pack.

Adrian Peterson and his 2nd back ran for about 1700 yards.

Clearly, we need to improve... but it wasn't a total disaster until late in the season when our blocking just seemed to fall apart.

Let's see what happens when we're able to really commit some resources to the interior line and get bigger and more physical up front.

WolfpackGuy
01-09-2010, 10:35 PM
The team would've been better served drafting defense at 12 or trading down as it was.

I'm probably never going to give Moreno a fair shake because of that.

bpc
01-09-2010, 10:42 PM
I think Moreno is a fine player. I just don't ever think he's going to be great. His skills point to that... but if that doesn't clear it up for you, what NE HB has been great in McDaniels offense? Ever? They use a RBBC, just like we've adopted this season. Moreno will never get all the carries in the game because he's going to spotted 1/3 of the time after he assumes the majority of the carries.

It was just a reach of a draft pick at 12 when we had more pressing issues and needs on the board. Factor in that stud HB's are found more easily anywhere from round 1-7 than virtually any position in the draft, I thought it was a dumb move.

It doesn't mean I won't root for him but a tiger can't change his stripes. He's never going that great of a player. More of a jack of all trades, Sammy Winder type. Nobody's dogging on Winder either. He had a very solid 8 or 9 year career in Denver.

strafen
01-09-2010, 10:47 PM
Come on Ludo, you are a way better poster than that.

What do you want him to say?
Do you want him to lie?
Telling the truth doesn't make him a bad poster, does it?

jhat01
01-09-2010, 10:51 PM
BTW, Knowshon came out in a year of desperation at HB, which is why he was picked so high. Moreno doesn't have near the skill level that CJ or Rice had coming out of college and they were drafted end of the 1st round, early 2nd. Sad fact but we reached for an area we felt was a need could have had just as nice value in round 3 with Shonn Greene. His game is better suited for the pro's as well. Especially in a cold weather city.

I'll agree he doesn't have the same skills as the two you mentioned. Rice played a 3rd year with 300-400 more carries against much weaker competition. He ran a 4.4 but If not for his epic bowl game, he may have dropped a bit. Great back..with two full seasons in the NFL

CJ was a 4 year player that's a completely different type of guy...He had neck surgery before his big year and had some durabilty concerns didn't he? But he ran a 4.2 so mix all that up and you get a late 1st rounder. Burner with two full seasons in the NFL.

I just want to have this conversation next year..hopefully later, because we'll be in the playoffs. IMO it's easy to call things "reaches" at this point...Rice had 500 yards and no TDs as a rookie. CJ was a different story but It's hard to compare those two. Let's see if Knowshon can build on a solid season.

KipCorrington25
01-09-2010, 10:55 PM
Not fumbling all the time and not holding out and not being slow and not being small helps...

jhat01
01-09-2010, 11:47 PM
Not fumbling all the time and not holding out and not being slow and not being small helps...

Not a fan of his, I get it. When I look at his highlights from 08 it's hard for me not to think of him as a high pick. Didn't quite equate this year but I can see why he was touted. He's going to be a really good back for us.

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KevinJames
01-10-2010, 01:15 AM
You guys don't think do you Knowshon would look just as good behind the Jets o-line

TomServo
01-10-2010, 02:06 AM
the point is knowshown was a waste @#12
mike anderson gave us 1400 yards at 5.0 a pop and a long run of 80 yards. and he was older, giving service in iraq
the cell phone guy gave us 5.9 per carry and a long run of 37.
knoshows longest run is 36 yards on Fresh legs. he is AVG and we gave him #12 $

TomServo
01-10-2010, 02:22 AM
i love talking about the old days-70s with popps. but this coach and this running back.... he's so wrong. Mcd and Knosho really suck
so bad

TomServo
01-10-2010, 03:34 AM
for a #12 pick knoshown pretty much sucked

rmsanger
01-10-2010, 06:10 AM
Pretty much... For me the most obvious problem isn't the speed it's his lack of vision. In those highlight clips you show of TD that's the first thing that stands out. He's patiend and waits for the block then makes that incredible first slash/cut across the LOS. After he gets into the 2nd tier you can see him change his body weight to maximize yardage.

NoShawn has the vision of a 90 year old woman.

azbroncfan
01-10-2010, 07:47 AM
What do you want him to say?
Do you want him to lie?
Telling the truth doesn't make him a bad poster, does it?

With Florida if it always isn't pro bronco or homer garbage then your a bad poster.

strafen
01-10-2010, 07:53 AM
for a #12 pick knoshown pretty much suckedHe's a bust. Book it!
You want to see good RB's?
Watch the play-offs

WolfpackGuy
01-10-2010, 08:00 AM
I think he will be a serviceable player, but 12 was way too high and RB was not necessarily a position of need.

McCoy and Greene who went later have more burst and can take it all the way when they break free.

bowtown
01-10-2010, 08:05 AM
When Turner turned on the video of a University of Georgia running back earlier this year, he saw "a person that was a complete package, and that's what we're always looking for," he said.
He saw Knowshon Moreno.
"He could do everything," Turner said. "He can do pass protection, he can block, he can catch, and obviously to be a running back you've got to be able to run the ball."



http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13362724#ixzz0cE4fZePm (http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13362724#ixzz0cE4fZePm)

I guess Bobby Turner knows less about running backs than most of the posters in this thread.

Rabb
01-10-2010, 08:15 AM
I was huge on Greene before the draft and had hoped we would take him in the second, but I am a Hawkeye and biased. Tough runner and fast. That said, he wouldn't have done much better this season here with the way our blocking ended up.

He is by far and away a tougher runner though.

elsid13
01-10-2010, 08:21 AM
I hate taking running back in the first round, I think you overpay for performance in the draft that way, since there are guys that can give you similar numbers later on. That being said, I don't think Moreno is a bad player, he has some problems, like lack of patience,no feel for the cut back, so-so feet in the hole and no burst. He needs to work on his game and spend some time in the weight room and improve his lateral quickness. The patience will come with the experience and that will allow him to play to his strength - agility in open field and good one on one power.

_Oro_
01-10-2010, 08:48 AM
Knowshon was a slasher in college, who made some highlight plays with his quickness. We all remember Knowshon made a ton of money with "the leap". He also was adept at catching the ball out of the backfield. Always a nice attritube in today's offensive game.

What people failed to realize is that Moreno runs upright, is slow, and his highlight reel runs in college, aren't going to cut it in the pro's where everybody is .2-.4 seconds faster than the fastest in the SEC. We've all seen his east/west dancing this year. He needs to ditch it.

Moreno was trying to run like a finesse back this year as if he has speed on defenders. That's not going to cut it. He needs to learn to just hit it up into the LOS sometimes and if he gets 3 yds, so be it. Stop dancing. Positive yardage and get every bit that he can.

Speed is never going to come to him so if you all are expecting Moreno to find another gear, forget about it. He's a quick back 0-10 yds. He can squirt out of the LOS but his 3rd and 4th gears are missing which is why he never really had 20 yd runs or longer. That isn't the line's fault, that's Moreno's.

Knowshon needs to decide what he wants to be in the NFL... a speed back or power back... since we already ruled his 4.68 speed out, he better start learning to buck people over. I would suggest he spend some time in the weight room doing squats and deadlifts. He tried to run a few people over this season and it's pretty much embarassing to watch as he normally goes down on first contact. A good year in the gym though could benefit him. He could bulk up to 220, 225, solid weight and then his slow 40 time doesn't become as big of a factor.

Hopefully by then we'll have this iso blocking scheme figured out with some better interior line guys and he can have more of an impact next year.

In my opinion, Knowshon doesn't look like more than a 1200 yd per season guy, at his best. I think he'll need a backfield mate ball and chained to him as well.

I don't see this finesse back stuff at all. I saw indecision throughout the season but not finesse. This guy runs looking for contact.

Look at these highlights vs the Giants
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81485319/WK-12-Knowshon-Moreno-highlights

Its true he's not going to rip off 20+ yard runs most of the time. But luckily for us 1st downs are only 10 yards and he has no problem getting those once he's past the LOS. Almost all of his problems happened when guys were hitting him behind the LOS.

Captain 'Dre
01-10-2010, 08:57 AM
Just FYI, Terrell Davis played at 210 lbs.

Did Terrell use extra wide shoulder pads or something? Ha!

Terrell ran harder AND lower than Knowshon does, delivering far more punishment. So even if the size of the two players is similar, Davis played bigger.

oubronco
01-10-2010, 09:16 AM
Yea the Broncos staff were the only scouts who had Moreno as a 1st round talent...All other teams and draft experts had him as a day two pick because their big boards had more players on them.

:spit: dude lay down the pipe and back away

bpc
01-10-2010, 09:43 AM
I don't see this finesse back stuff at all. I saw indecision throughout the season but not finesse. This guy runs looking for contact.

Look at these highlights vs the Giants
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81485319/WK-12-Knowshon-Moreno-highlights

Its true he's not going to rip off 20+ yard runs most of the time. But luckily for us 1st downs are only 10 yards and he has no problem getting those once he's past the LOS. Almost all of his problems happened when guys were hitting him behind the LOS.

His Giants game was the best he had this season IMO. I don't count KC because they were the worst defense in the league. He looked more like a difference maker that game than at any point of this season in which I can recall.

jhat01
01-10-2010, 10:21 AM
He's a bust. Book it!
You want to see good RB's?
Watch the play-offs

You don't even know what a "bust" is. If he plays for 6 or 7 years with the same stats as this year would you call him a bust? You probably would.

skpac1001
01-10-2010, 10:23 AM
Not a fan of his, I get it. When I look at his highlights from 08 it's hard for me not to think of him as a high pick. Didn't quite equate this year but I can see why he was touted. He's going to be a really good back for us.

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I remember before the draft I watched his highlights and freaked out, thinking he was the next Barry. Then I looked at his ypc average against different teams, and some of his lowlights, and he didn't look like a 1st rounder anymore to me. With the exception of one game against a good team (i forget which, LSU maybe?, he ripped off something like a 60 yarder in the game), every good team he faced, like 5-6 during his season, he averaged around 2.5 yards per carry, and if I remember right, I am being generous with the 2.5. All his decent averages came against nobody teams. He is gifted and I am not writing him off yet, but the concerns I have with him are the same I had before the draft, his rookie season actually is basically the same as his last college season.

go_broncos
01-10-2010, 10:31 AM
Most RBs are better than Moreno. Look at Ray Rice..

jhat01
01-10-2010, 10:35 AM
I remember before the draft I watched his highlights and freaked out, thinking he was the next Barry. Then I looked at his ypc average against different teams, and some of his lowlights, and he didn't look like a 1st rounder anymore to me. With the exception of one game against a good team (i forget which, LSU maybe?, he ripped off something like a 60 yarder in the game), every good team he faced, like 5-6 during his season, he averaged around 2.5 yards per carry, and if I remember right, I am being generous with the 2.5. All his decent averages came against nobody teams. He is gifted and I am not writing him off yet, but the concerns I have with him are the same I had before the draft, his rookie season actually is basically the same as his last college season.

I get what you are saying, but you are a little off. He averaged about 3.8 yds per carry against Tenn, Bama, and Florida in 08 and he didn't have a great bowl game. I'm not calling him Emmett Smith or anything, don't get me wrong, but I think he had a solid rookie season...9 total Tds and about 60 ypg. That's top half production. I think he'll build on this for next season and seasons to come.

Requiem
01-10-2010, 10:39 AM
Greene is a tough downhill runner, needless to say -- he has the opportunity of running behind a Pro-Bowl center and a much better run blocking OL. I'm hoping Moreno at his young age, 22, will continue to grow and become a better football player physically and mentally. He only played two years at Georgia, so I expected a slower transition into the NFL.

I'd much rather have Moreno, even with where we made the investment at. He has the capacity and ability to succeed in any manner possible. He will continue to get better. People need to be patient. Afterall, I don't think 1,200 APY and 9 touchdowns is that shabby. Pretty impressive to me.

jhat01
01-10-2010, 10:39 AM
Most RBs are better than Moreno. Look at Ray Rice..

Ray Rice had 400 yds and no Tds his rookie season. Give it a rest.

skpac1001
01-10-2010, 10:40 AM
I get what you are saying, but you are a little off. He averaged about 3.8 yds per carry against Tenn, Bama, and Florida in 08 and he didn't have a great bowl game. I'm not calling him Emmett Smith or anything, don't get me wrong, but I think he had a solid rookie season...9 total Tds and about 60 ypg. That's top half production. I think he'll build on this for next season and seasons to come.

Story of my life.

jhat01
01-10-2010, 10:43 AM
story of my life.

:giggle::thumbsup:

Rulon Velvet Jones
01-10-2010, 10:45 AM
Until there's success, people will always want what others have.

Rabb
01-10-2010, 10:47 AM
Most RBs are better than Moreno. Look at Ray Rice..

Most posters are better than you and know more about football. Please die.

go_broncos
01-10-2010, 10:48 AM
Most posters are better than you and know more about football. Please die.

you f..king ****..Mark my words..You or your family will die in a week..

Rabb
01-10-2010, 10:49 AM
Ray Rice had 400 yds and no Tds his rookie season. Give it a rest.

they can't, the short-sighted **** around here is worse than it was last off season and I am impressed, I didn't think it was possible

all respect to TJ because I love this place but it's a joke anymore and 90% unreadable...until the last 9 months I had nobody on my iggy list and now I have at least 10

Rabb
01-10-2010, 10:50 AM
you f..king ****..Mark my words..You or your family will die in a week..

awesome thanks kitten (classy bringing the family into it btw, kudos)

now go find something else to hate about your team

jhat01
01-10-2010, 11:11 AM
you f..king ****..Mark my words..You or your family will die in a week..

Family? Nice move dude...:ban:

Rabb
01-10-2010, 11:13 AM
Family? Nice move dude...:ban:

I mean, I said please when I asked him to die

his was more of a threat :D

go_broncos
01-10-2010, 11:13 AM
Family? Nice move dude...:ban:

He started it..I never said anything to him.

So, its ok for him to say that i die.

go_broncos
01-10-2010, 11:14 AM
I mean, I said please when I asked him to die

his was more of a threat :D

I dont care if you say please..You said that i need to die.

jhat01
01-10-2010, 11:16 AM
He started it..I never said anything to him.

So, its ok for him to say that i die.

Don't know, I'm not a mod. I got a 30 day for telling someone they could "**** their mother" though. Everybody gets too worked up, many times me included.

Dagmar
01-10-2010, 11:20 AM
Bantastic.

Rabb
01-10-2010, 11:21 AM
I dont care if you say please..You said that i need to die.

feel free to report me, I am pretty sure there is a difference in me saying "please die" and you saying "Mark my words..You or your family will die in a week"

I am not running to a mod because...

1. I don't care, or feel threatened by your stupid ass
2. I baited you and like a simple moron you took it, so you are correct I started it
3. My ignore list just grew by 1, which is all I care about

:yayaya:

Dagmar
01-10-2010, 11:23 AM
feel free to report me, I am pretty sure there is a difference in me saying "please die" and you saying "Mark my words..You or your family will die in a week"

I am not running to a mod because...

1. I don't care, or feel threatened by your stupid ass
2. I baited you and like a simple moron you took it, so you are correct I started it
3. My ignore list just grew by 1, which is all I care about

:yayaya:

He is now banned. :welcome:

Tombstone RJ
01-10-2010, 11:23 AM
Wow, this thread went from bad to no class rapidly. Well done gentlemen, well done.

Rabb
01-10-2010, 11:26 AM
Wow, this thread went from bad to no class rapidly. Well don't gentlemen, well done.

I will man up and take any ownership for contributing to it also, seriously. I'll stop being a jerk ass.

I said please though :wiggle:

Anyhow, back to the topic...sorry all

Dagmar
01-10-2010, 11:33 AM
I dont care if you say please..You said that i need to die.

Enjoy your vacation from the Mane.

sixtimeseight
01-10-2010, 11:47 AM
<table id="post2711414" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr title="Post 2711414"><td class="thead" style="font-weight: normal;">http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 01-10-2010, 12:10 PM </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2"> Remove user from ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?userlist=ignore&do=removelist&u=6944)
go_broncos (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/member.php?u=6944) </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1"> This message is hidden because go_broncos is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Damn, I don't get to see this anymore.

Archer81
01-10-2010, 12:05 PM
you f..king ****..Mark my words..You or your family will die in a week..


<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IUH3JQjcweM&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IUH3JQjcweM&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

:Broncos:

tsiguy96
01-10-2010, 12:10 PM
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IUH3JQjcweM&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IUH3JQjcweM&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

:Broncos:

Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!

TonyR
01-10-2010, 12:29 PM
Someone here, maybe Drek but I'm not certain, has made an interesting comparison of Moreno to Tiki Barber. Tiki had a slow start but then really had a great career before losing his desire and retiring while still near his peak. See link below.

I think we haven't even begun to see the best of Knowshon Moreno.

http://www.nfl.com/players/tikibarber/profile?id=BAR025952

Cito Pelon
01-10-2010, 12:47 PM
Moreno is pretty good. With a little more patience picking the right hole he's a good chain mover. He looks to me like he learned a few things around the goal line during the season. He's a fairly tough runner, doesn't have top-end speed but has good burst and balance. Has to learn the straight arm to get a few more yards. Has good hands and that didn't get seen in 2009 as much as it will in the future. With screens he can get more yards with some patience. Moreno is a good back.

db56
01-10-2010, 04:37 PM
Moreno is pretty good. With a little more patience picking the right hole he's a good chain mover. He looks to me like he learned a few things around the goal line during the season. He's a fairly tough runner, doesn't have top-end speed but has good burst and balance. Has to learn the straight arm to get a few more yards. Has good hands and that didn't get seen in 2009 as much as it will in the future. With screens he can get more yards with some patience. Moreno is a good back.

couldnt agree more.. he got an education in how the profesionals do it this season, no more outrunning everybody to the corner and huge holes to run through but imo he manned up and played with toughness and was a good pick at that spot. Knowshon had a good season considering he was dodging blitzers in the backfield and making his own holes most of the time I think we will see what Knowshon can do we drafted when gets to the second level next season with some new faces on the interior side of the line..

yavoon
01-10-2010, 04:52 PM
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IUH3JQjcweM&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IUH3JQjcweM&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

:Broncos:

this is one of the best forum meme's since rickroll.

Captain 'Dre
01-10-2010, 05:25 PM
Most RBs are better than Moreno. Look at Ray Rice..

Ray Rice is a stud, and Matt Forte is another guy I like.

Bronco LB52
01-10-2010, 06:28 PM
This is apples and oranges. You can't compare Greene and Moreno unless their running behind the same line. Watch the second half of the season. It's amazing how bad our run blocking was. We have one great player on the oline, Clady.

As for the Jets, Foneco and Mangold are Pro Bowlers this year, Damien Woody has been a Pro Bowler, and Dbrick Ferguson will eventually be one. You're gonna say Knowshon is gonna be running into the backs of those guys?

Ferguson was just named as Jake Long's injury replacement on the AFC Pro Bowl roster.

watermock
01-11-2010, 12:58 PM
If we take a RB in 1st round, he better make the offense better.
He doesn't have a single 100 yards rushing. For him to be successful, we need to have a great O-line. We didn't have a single rookie impact player taken in 1st 3 rounds.

Trading up to take A.smith and Quinn sucks.

Pretty simple stuff. That's what's so confusing to them. We could of had Cushing , Orakapo AND Greene with a little dealing, without even trading our first in '10 we got for Cutler.

TonyR
01-11-2010, 01:04 PM
Pretty simple stuff. That's what's so confusing to them. We could of had Cushing , Orakapo AND Greene with a little dealing, without even trading our first in '10 we got for Cutler.

It's always simple with perfect hindsight, isn't it? Funny how that works.

gtown
01-11-2010, 01:08 PM
It's always simple with perfect hindsight, isn't it? Funny how that works.

Hindsight be damned. We really messed up when we didn't pick Ed Reed and Tom Brady. What were we thinking?

Dagmar
01-11-2010, 01:13 PM
Pretty simple stuff. That's what's so confusing to them. We could of had Cushing , Orakapo AND Greene with a little dealing, without even trading our first in '10 we got for Cutler.

Show me the post where you suggested this predraft. Show me the post where ANYONE on this board suggested this.

Show me the post on ANY message board anywhere that suggested this.

Seriously? Why didn't Shanahan take Brady in 2000? He picked Deltha O'Neal, Ian Gold, Chris Cole, Jerry Johnson, Cooper Carlisle, Muneer Moore and Mike Anderson before Tom Brady was picked.

God Shanahan was so stoooopid.

In case you were wondering, the above is exactly how ridiculous you sound Peanut Butter boy.

Dagmar
01-11-2010, 03:41 PM
Strange how mock suddenly disappears when his "arguments" are blown away.

watermock
01-11-2010, 04:01 PM
Actually, you can remember, butt, Ha! I picked Orakapo and either Clay Matthews or Cushing or Greene.

Plus we would have our 10 #1, 2 top 11's. STFU.

Dagmar
01-11-2010, 04:02 PM
link?

Why didn't we pick Brady!

Or Ed REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED?

Draft hindsight crap is stupid mock, you know it.

watermock
01-11-2010, 04:06 PM
Show me the post where you suggested this predraft. Show me the post where ANYONE on this board suggested this.

Show me the post on ANY message board anywhere that suggested this.

Seriously? Why didn't Shanahan take Brady in 2000? He picked Deltha O'Neal, Ian Gold, Chris Cole, Jerry Johnson, Cooper Carlisle, Muneer Moore and Mike Anderson before Tom Brady was picked.

God Shanahan was so stoooopid.

In case you were wondering, the above is exactly how ridiculous you sound Peanut Butter boy.

We had mock drafts in the good days of OM and nobody picked those players.

We did't do so bad as the last draft, in fact, he 06 and 08 drafts were excellent.

You stupid moth****er, you do realize we get 2 firsts and 2 #3, PLUS 2 firsts and 3 #'s from Cutler and Marshall, right?

watermock
01-11-2010, 04:09 PM
link?

Why didn't we pick Brady!

Or Ed REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED?

Draft hindsight crap is stupid mock, you know it.

We picked Ed Reed in the last good draft, back when we cared.

Lelie was takn first, but Ed Reed was there, both in the mock and real draft. STFU.

Dagmar
01-11-2010, 04:09 PM
We had mock drafts in the good days of OM and nobody picked those players.

We did't do so bad as the last draft, in fact, he 06 and 08 drafts were excellent.

You stupid moth****er, you do realize we get 2 firsts and 2 #3, PLUS 2 firsts and 3 #'s from Cutler and Marshall, right?

:rofl:

:kiss::kiss::kiss::kiss::kiss::kiss:

watermock
01-11-2010, 04:20 PM
Fine...We got 3 #1's last year, total. Plus we has 2 #2's, that we traded for Smith and late #2 for Quinn, then we drafted marginal slow satiees and undersized OL and a project QB.


I remember the draft, do you remember your last boyfriend?

Popps
01-11-2010, 04:21 PM
Strange how mock suddenly disappears when his "arguments" are blown away.

He'll reappear a few minutes later when he forgets, though.

Popps
01-11-2010, 04:26 PM
The funniest thing about Mock calling Moreno a bust already is that the biggest hard-on Mock ever had was over Vernon Davis and Justin Fargas. Fargas turned out to be worthless. But, Davis now looks like the best TE in the league.

FOUR YEARS.

FOUR YEARS it took for Vernon Davis to break out. That was Mock's favorite (non) draft pick of all time. He was a borderline bust for 3 years... now he's a break-out star.

You'd think Mock might have learned a lesson from this story... that sometimes you have to give a guy a year or two to shine. Sometimes even longer. The list is endless. Many... I'd say even MOST draft picks don't peak in year 1.

So, calling guys like Moreno a bust in year one really shows a lack of understanding of how these things can and often do pan out.

Dagmar
01-11-2010, 04:29 PM
Fine...We got 3 #1's last year, total. Plus we has 2 #2's, that we traded for Smith and late #2 for Quinn, then we drafted marginal slow satiees and undersized OL and a project QB.


I remember the draft, do you remember your last boyfriend?

You remember something you old retard?

I assume the boyfriend comment is some sort of lame gay smack?

watermock
01-11-2010, 04:31 PM
Dumbass, Fargas was a mid round pick.

BTW, why don't you check out Fargas stats for the past 3 years as opposed to McFadden.

watermock
01-11-2010, 04:36 PM
Career Stats Season Team Games Rushing Receiving Fumbles
G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Long TD FUM Lost
TOTAL 827 3,369 -- 53 10 77 523 -- 21 0 10 4
2009 OAK 12 4 129 491 3.8 35 3 17 113 6.6 14 0 1 0
2008 OAK 14 14 218 853 3.9 42 1 10 52 5.2 12 0 3 1
2007 OAK 14 7 222 1,009 4.5 48 4 23 188 8.2 17 0 3 1
2006 OAK 16 6 178 659 3.7 48 1 13 91 7.0 21 0 1 0
2005 OAK 14 0 5 28 5.6 15 0 1 9 9.0 9 0 -- --
2004 OAK 12 0 35 126 3.6 15 1 11 68 6.2 21 0 1 1
2003 OAK 10 1 40 203 5.1 53 0 2 2 1.0 6 0 1 1
Recent Games

watermock
01-11-2010, 04:38 PM
Career Stats Season Team Games Rushing Receiving Fumbles
G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Long TD FUM Lost
TOTAL 217 856 -- 50 5 50 530 -- 48 0 8 4
2009 OAK 12 7 104 357 3.4 28 1 21 245 11.7 48 0 5 3
2008 OAK 13 5 113 499 4.4 50 4 29 285 9.8 27 0 3 1
Recent Games

Dagmar
01-11-2010, 04:38 PM
I love when mock calls people dumbass.

sixtimeseight
01-11-2010, 04:39 PM
<table id="post2713445" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr title="Post 2713445"><td class="thead" style="font-weight: normal;">http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 01-11-2010, 05:31 PM </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2"> Remove user from ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?userlist=ignore&do=removelist&u=242)
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</td> </tr> <!-- / main bar --> </tbody></table> <!-- / close content container --> <!-- / post #2713445 --><!-- post #2713453 --> <!-- open content container --> <!-- this is not the last post shown on the page --> <table id="post2713453" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr title="Post 2713453"> <td class="thead" style="font-weight: normal;" id="currentPost"> View Post (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2713453) http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/statusicon/post_new.gif 01-11-2010, 05:36 PM </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2"> Remove user from ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?userlist=ignore&do=removelist&u=242)
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</td> </tr> <!-- / main bar --> </tbody></table>



<!-- / close content container --> <!-- / post #2713453 --><!-- post #2713457 --> <!-- open content container --> <!-- this is not the last post shown on the page --> <table id="post2713457" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr title="Post 2713457"> <td class="thead" style="font-weight: normal;"> View Post (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2713457) http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/statusicon/post_new.gif 01-11-2010, 05:38 PM </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2"> Remove user from ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?userlist=ignore&do=removelist&u=242)
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These are my favorite mock posts.

Mr.Meanie
01-11-2010, 04:41 PM
WYou stupid moth****er, you do realize we get 2 firsts and 2 #3, PLUS 2 firsts and 3 #'s from Cutler and Marshall, right?

:spit:

Dagmar
01-11-2010, 04:41 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=79168

Remember this doozy you moron mock? Who was to blame for that? Booze, peanut butter? Beezer?

Dagmar
01-11-2010, 04:41 PM
:spit:

I know, I'm a stupid mother****er, then he posts that!!!! :rofl:

watermock
01-11-2010, 04:42 PM
WTW, he's still got better ypc and the same fumbles.

And this was just a simple reach in a mock draft.

Was Fargas taken top 10 dummy?

Dagmar
01-11-2010, 04:53 PM
WTW, he's still got better ypc and the same fumbles.

And this was just a simple reach in a mock draft.

Was Fargas taken top 10 dummy?

Hilarious!

azbroncfan
01-11-2010, 04:55 PM
<table id="post2713445" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr title="Post 2713445"><td class="thead" style="font-weight: normal;">http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 01-11-2010, 05:31 PM </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2"> Remove user from ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?userlist=ignore&do=removelist&u=242)
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<!-- / close content container --> <!-- / post #2713453 --><!-- post #2713457 --> <!-- open content container --> <!-- this is not the last post shown on the page --> <table id="post2713457" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr title="Post 2713457"> <td class="thead" style="font-weight: normal;"> View Post (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2713457) http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/statusicon/post_new.gif 01-11-2010, 05:38 PM </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2"> Remove user from ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?userlist=ignore&do=removelist&u=242)
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These are my favorite mock posts.

What is the over/under on the week for the amount of ignore poster posts you will do? Last I checked it was 52.5 but a lot of action on the over has moved it to 61.

Dagmar
01-11-2010, 04:55 PM
Jay Cutler can't be judged in draft points. He's the only one to even be starting right now, yet alone probowl.
likely Jay will carry them to a division title in a weak division.

Converesly, I think with our basically "NEW' team, and a tough road, will probably have a higher pick next year.

So much for getting McCoy or Bradford.
Hilarious!

watermock
01-11-2010, 04:56 PM
Yeah, that proved alot.
[QUOTEJay Cutler can't be judged in draft points. He's the only one to even be starting right now, yet alone probowl.
likely Jay will carry them to a division title in a weak division.

Converesly, I think with our basically "NEW' team, and a tough road, will probably have a higher pick next year.

So much for getting McCoy or Bradford.

--------------------------

Oh my...so we did what? trade a #5 pick to Seattle and lose 6 of 8?


You know dimwit, we had 3 first round picks.

Now we have 1.

And no QB. No quality RB, and no #1 WR.

Go tell me to build a tin roof over Arkanas.

Keep making excuses for an offense totally demolished.

sixtimeseight
01-11-2010, 04:57 PM
What is the over/under on the week for the amount of ignore poster posts you will do? Last I checked it was 52.5 but a lot of action on the over has moved it to 61.

What's the over/under on how old you are? I'm going with 70 based on how angry and bitter you are, but even then I'd be tempted to take the over.

watermock
01-11-2010, 05:06 PM
I remember when I said predraft that Moreno seemed to not warrant a #12 pick, since his speed was average, I got ripped.

Oh well, he's a rookie, his tim shold get better, right?

Just look at our entire draft.

Yes, with 3 first rounders, 5x3, have at least 2 impact players.

Dagmar
01-11-2010, 05:06 PM
And no QB. No quality RB, and no #1 WR.

Go tell me to build a tin roof over Arkanas.

[/QUOTE]

What?

And WTF? Tin roof?

Put the peanut butter DOWN!

azbroncfan
01-11-2010, 05:14 PM
Yeah, that proved alot.
[QUOTEJay Cutler can't be judged in draft points. He's the only one to even be starting right now, yet alone probowl.
likely Jay will carry them to a division title in a weak division.

Converesly, I think with our basically "NEW' team, and a tough road, will probably have a higher pick next year.

So much for getting McCoy or Bradford.

--------------------------

Oh my...so we did what? trade a #5 pick to Seattle and lose 6 of 8?


You know dimwit, we had 3 first round picks.

Now we have 1.

And no QB. No quality RB, and no #1 WR.

Go tell me to build a tin roof over Arkanas.

Keep making excuses for an offense totally demolished.

What are you talking about? The rotgut or peter pan is kicking your ass. When did we have a #5? When did we have 3 number 1's? We traded our #1 this year to Seattle that was it.

broncofan7
01-17-2010, 04:23 PM
BUMP. give the OP his due.........

bpc
01-17-2010, 04:29 PM
We're going to look back on this draft and the way HB's were taken in a similar fashion to when Dan Marino was passed up by 20 teams in 83' and Todd Blackledge was drafted MUCH too high.

Shonn Greene was the better NFL type HB compared to Moreno, and even the value of being taken some 60 picks later, we still overpaid for a HB.

WABronco
01-17-2010, 05:05 PM
Looking back, Shonn Greene should've been the no. 1 pick. He's so good.

Florida_Bronco
01-17-2010, 05:51 PM
So not only did the resident lunatic feel the need to bump this thread, but then started another thread on the exact same topic.

This is bordering on being Bobo level attention whore right here.

Punisher
01-17-2010, 06:13 PM
This is why u never take a RB in the 1st round unless he has A LOT of Talent

orinjkrush
01-17-2010, 06:22 PM
we coulda had, we shoulda had,
but we had:

1st round choices:
2009 1 12 12 Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia ????
2008 1 12 12 Ryan Clady OT Boise State…HIT
2007 1 17 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida….Miss
2006 1 11 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt…..long fly foul
2005 2 24 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State…..???
2004 1 17 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami….HIT
2003 1 20 20 George Foster OT Georgia…Miss
2002 1 19 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii….Miss
2001 1 24 24 Willie Middlebrooks DB Minnesota….Miss
2000 1 15 15 Deltha O'Neal DB California….Miss
1999 1 31 31 Al Wilson LB Tennessee…Hit
1998 1 30 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee….Miss
1997 1 28 28 Trevor Pryce DE Clemson….HIT

Florida_Bronco
01-17-2010, 06:24 PM
we coulda had, we shoulda had,
but we had:

1st round choices:
2009 1 12 12 Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia ????
2008 1 12 12 Ryan Clady OT Boise State…HIT
2007 1 17 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida….Miss
2006 1 11 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt…..long fly foul
2005 2 24 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State…..???
2004 1 17 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami….HIT
2003 1 20 20 George Foster OT Georgia…Miss
2002 1 19 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii….Miss
2001 1 24 24 Willie Middlebrooks DB Minnesota….Miss
2000 1 15 15 Deltha O'Neal DB California….Miss
1999 1 31 31 Al Wilson LB Tennessee…Hit
1998 1 30 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee….Miss
1997 1 28 28 Trevor Pryce DE Clemson….HIT

O'Neal, Lelie and Foster should all be considered hits of some sort as they all produced for the team over multiple years.

Punisher
01-17-2010, 06:27 PM
O'Neal, Lelie and Foster should all be considered hits of some sort as they all produced for the team over multiple years.

LOL remember when O'Neal came back as a WR then got cut Ha!

orinjkrush
01-17-2010, 06:39 PM
the grades i've seen for Moss indicate major BUST. will he stay?