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ZachKC
01-09-2010, 11:05 AM
Ayers fined for Jamaal Charles body slam
Posted by Mike Florio on January 9, 2010 10:40 AM ET
A reader asked us last night to obtain an explanation for the NFL's failure to fine Broncos defensive end Robert Ayers for his Turkey Joe Jones move on Chiefs running back Jamaal Charles in Week 17.

As it turns out, no explanation is needed; Ayers was fined.

Per NFL spokesman Greg Aiello, the league slapped Ayers with a $5,000 sanction for unnecessary roughness.

The hit can be seen at roughly 1:15 of the NFL.com highlight package from the Chiefs' upset of the Broncos.

TheDave
01-09-2010, 11:07 AM
$5K...?

To be honest I thought it was going to be a lot more than that.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 11:09 AM
$5K...?

To be honest I thought it was going to be a lot more than that.

I thought so as well. I am not too outraged or anything. I am glad the league came out and made some action but 30k for a sombrero but 5k for this? Could have broke the dudes neck. And it isnt like it was some fast crazy play like those helmet to helmet hits you see in the secondary. He had to go out of his way to do i.

JJG
01-09-2010, 11:12 AM
pardon my ignorance, but why was that tackle ruled "unnecessary roughness"? the play was still live right?

Killericon
01-09-2010, 11:12 AM
It goes to show how much Florio knows about the Broncos that he thinks Ayers is an End.

crazyhorse
01-09-2010, 11:17 AM
pardon my ignorance, but why was that tackle ruled "unnecessary roughness"? the play was still live right?

It was after the whistle. But still unnecessary either way.

Cito Pelon
01-09-2010, 11:19 AM
I enjoyed the tackle.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 11:22 AM
pardon my ignorance, but why was that tackle ruled "unnecessary roughness"? the play was still live right?

Because it was putting Charles in an unnecessarily dangerous situation. There is no reason to go out of your way to slam a guy on to his neck when you can tackle him all the same.

crazyhorse
01-09-2010, 11:27 AM
I enjoyed the tackle.

259 yards rushing will do that to ya.

DB_champ24
01-09-2010, 11:29 AM
Because it was putting Charles in an unnecessarily dangerous situation. There is no reason to go out of your way to slam a guy on to his neck when you can tackle him all the same.

no, actually the whistle was blown in the middle of the tackle. You can't just stop what you're doing. Broncos players couldn't tackle that guy all day, they had to get him down somehow. This is football, guys are going to get slammed, it was a stupid wimpy call.

JJG
01-09-2010, 11:29 AM
Because it was putting Charles in an unnecessarily dangerous situation. There is no reason to go out of your way to slam a guy on to his neck when you can tackle him all the same.

but he couldn't tackle him all the same...Is it illegal to pick someone up?

TDmvp
01-09-2010, 11:32 AM
Only time i said his name all year was that play ... nice of him to cost us 15 that one time .
Bust ...

TonyR
01-09-2010, 11:33 AM
pardon my ignorance, but why was that tackle ruled "unnecessary roughness"? the play was still live right?

I know we're in the minority in this position but I feel the same way. You have to tackle guys gently now? I didn't know that. All that said, I watched the game online on a tiny little viewer so I might not have the best perspective on the whole thing.

Bronco Boy
01-09-2010, 11:34 AM
5K well spent. Charles will be scared of Ayers now for years to come.

_Oro_
01-09-2010, 11:35 AM
It was Ayers only tackle of the year, he had to make it count.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 11:39 AM
no, actually the whistle was blown in the middle of the tackle. You can't just stop what you're doing. Broncos players couldn't tackle that guy all day, they had to get him down somehow. This is football, guys are going to get slammed, it was a stupid wimpy call.

It isn't about the whistle. This is a penalty no matter what the whistle does.

It isn't about guys simple getting hit or slammed...that happens all the time...there was a reason this was a penalty AND a fine. It is because of the dangerous and unnecessary nature of the hit. If you don't believe in unnecessary roughness at all thats fine...thats another issue. This is the exact kind of play the rule was made for.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 11:41 AM
5K well spent. Charles will be scared of Ayers now for years to come.

Yea, it really seemed to spook him the rest of the game.
ROFL!ROFL!

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ZachKC
01-09-2010, 11:41 AM
I know we're in the minority in this position but I feel the same way. You have to tackle guys gently now? I didn't know that. All that said, I watched the game online on a tiny little viewer so I might not have the best perspective on the whole thing.

No.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 11:42 AM
but he couldn't tackle him all the same...Is it illegal to pick someone up?

Why not? He had his hands around his hips and easily could have brought him down...he was getting his ass kicked all day and was frustrated so he slammed him.

Are you really trying to tell me that is the only way he could have brought Charles down?

Dr. Broncenstein
01-09-2010, 11:47 AM
Honestly I thought it would be much more than 5k. That was bush-league frustration venting by a marginal player, on a defense that was getting clowned by Jamaal Charles. Ayers should have been ejected.

MagicHef
01-09-2010, 11:51 AM
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4:24. No penalty.

DHallblows
01-09-2010, 11:58 AM
4:24. No penalty.

Ah, but you see, Brian was a well known, hard-hitting safety, playing for an East Coast team in that video. So no penalty. Read the rule book dummy! ;D

WolfpackGuy
01-09-2010, 11:59 AM
Late hit, but Ayers is lucky it was only 5K of his stolen money.

rad
01-09-2010, 12:00 PM
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4:24. No penalty.

I guess we know who taught Ayers how to tackle.....

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 12:01 PM
Late hit, but Ayers is lucky it was only 5K of his stolen money.

People keep focusing on the whistle. I think that matters little. It was an illegal hit.

TheDave
01-09-2010, 12:02 PM
4:24. No penalty.

Yeah... Like who's going to fine Brian Dawkins. I know I wouldn't. 8')

Cito Pelon
01-09-2010, 12:10 PM
Honestly I thought it would be much more than 5k. That was bush-league frustration venting by a marginal player, on a defense that was getting clowned by Jamaal Charles. Ayers should have been ejected.

Don't make me laugh.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-09-2010, 12:15 PM
Don't make me laugh.

I know.... it's cool to suplex a guy for making a fool out of your defense. Classy fans should understand.

TonyR
01-09-2010, 12:22 PM
4:24. No penalty.

Great find. Almost an identical tackle. And I remember this now and don't even recall a possible penalty being discussed. Have the rules changed?

Bronco Yoda
01-09-2010, 12:30 PM
I enjoyed the tackle.

me too! :giggle: Ha!

azbroncfan
01-09-2010, 12:34 PM
Yea, it really seemed to spook him the rest of the game.
ROFL!ROFL!

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That is a classic DJ overrun the play.

Taco John
01-09-2010, 12:35 PM
It isn't about the whistle. This is a penalty no matter what the whistle does.

I disagree. Why do you think he only got fined $5k.

I've seen that tackle go for nothing before. This was all about the whistle.

When the whistle blows, the play is dead. Period.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 12:36 PM
I disagree. Why do you think he only got fined $5k.

I've seen that tackle go for nothing before. This was all about the whistle.

When the whistle blows, the play is dead. Period.

He is in the air during the whistle. Listen in to it.

Cito Pelon
01-09-2010, 12:36 PM
I know.... it's cool to suplex a guy for making a fool out of your defense. Classy fans should understand.

It was a good tackle, something every NFL back should expect at some time if he's fighting for extra yards and the whistle hasn't blown. Tackles like that are just NFL-like. Or college-like, or highschool-like. That's football.

TheDave
01-09-2010, 12:38 PM
That is a classic DJ overrun the play.

At least DJ had a guard on him... Marcus Thomas was busy dancing around his man on the LOS.


WOW... Watch that again, what a complete fail by so many people at the point of attack.

Pathetic...

Taco John
01-09-2010, 12:38 PM
People keep focusing on the whistle. I think that matters little. It was an illegal hit.



What rule book are you referring to? Not the NFL one. I've never heard of a rule that bans that particular tackle.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 12:38 PM
It was a good tackle, something every NFL back should expect at some time if he's fighting for extra yards and the whistle hasn't blown. Tackles like that are just NFL-like. Or college-like, or highschool-like. That's football.

Slamming a guy on his neck.

Is not football.

Broncos4tw
01-09-2010, 12:39 PM
I thought it was not needed. I was yelling at him as soon as he did it, as I thought we were going to get a 15 yard penalty out of it. The guy was not moving, at all. He had 3 guys on him. So our guy picks him up and bodyslams him backwards, the guy can do nothing about it.

If that was done to our player, I would have been very pissed off.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 12:39 PM
What rule book are you referring to? Not the NFL one. I've never heard of a rule that bans that particular tackle.

Did you go back and listen to the whistle on the play?

Or were you sunk into your couch in embarrassment as you mentioned when you saw the play in the game thread.

Taco John
01-09-2010, 12:48 PM
Did you go back and listen to the whistle on the play?

Or were you sunk into your couch in embarrassment as you mentioned when you saw the play in the game thread.

No I'm trying to find a reference to that move being illegal in the NFL rulebook. Not coming up with anything.

azbroncfan
01-09-2010, 12:49 PM
At least DJ had a guard on him... Marcus Thomas was busy dancing around his man on the LOS.


WOW... Watch that again, what a complete fail by so many people at the point of attack.

Pathetic...

DJ overran the play allowing the G to be able to seal the backside lane resulting in the TD.

DBroncos4life
01-09-2010, 12:49 PM
That is a classic DJ overrun the play.

lol Dawkins and Davis both get way out of position and you are going to place blame on DJ who had a guard blocking his knee's on the play? 3-4 LB's are more effective if they are not being blocked 5 yards down field.

TDmvp
01-09-2010, 12:51 PM
What rule book are you referring to? Not the NFL one. I've never heard of a rule that bans that particular tackle.

I think there actually is a rule on lifting and slamming ... I'm hunting a online rule book and having trouble finding one besides the crap one on NFL.com ... But pretty sure there is a rule on lifting and slamming and not only on Qb's on all ball carriers. It's a judgment call and more about the lifting part if I remember how they described it on nfl network.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 12:53 PM
No I'm trying to find a reference to that move being illegal in the NFL rulebook. Not coming up with anything.

Poor choice of words.

That is unnecessary roughness whether the whistle blew or not.

UR can and in this case was during an active play.

TheDave
01-09-2010, 12:54 PM
DJ overran the play allowing the G to be able to seal the backside lane resulting in the TD.

You need to re-watch that he didn't over run the play at all... On the other hand he did fail to take the guard on and instead tried to run around his block.

Something that alot of people in our front 7 did on that play.

PRBronco
01-09-2010, 12:54 PM
Larsen had an unpenalized suplex last year but I can't find a clip of it anywhere. Anyone else remember that?

DBroncos4life
01-09-2010, 12:55 PM
DJ overran the play allowing the G to be able to seal the backside lane resulting in the TD.

3 seconds into the video the guard is on DJ. Charles was still in the backfield when the guard hit him. DJ moved from one side of the big 50 to the other where Davis was lined up. How many yards do you think DJ traveled in the three seconds it took the guard to hit him?

Houshyamama
01-09-2010, 12:56 PM
Because it was putting Charles in an unnecessarily dangerous situation. There is no reason to go out of your way to slam a guy on to his neck when you can tackle him all the same.

There is when he's a Chief Hilarious!

I like the tackle, great way to spend 5K IMO

Houshyamama
01-09-2010, 12:58 PM
Slamming a guy on his neck.

Is not football.

This is. A rough sport. Go home and. Cry you little. Girl.

azbroncfan
01-09-2010, 12:59 PM
You need to re-watch that he didn't over run the play at all... On the other hand he did fail to take the guard on and instead tried to run around his block.

Something that alot of people in our front 7 did on that play.

He completely overpursued. If he would of just stood where he lined up Charles would of ran right past him on the left shoulder. He could of filled the cutback lane and forced Jamaal to run in to where the defenders were. Instead he ran where all of Denver's defenders were abandoning his backside gap control and Charles ran right where he should of been for a long TD. Over running allowed the G to seal the backside too.

TheDave
01-09-2010, 12:59 PM
3 seconds into the video the guard is on DJ. Charles was still in the backfield when the guard hit him. DJ moved from one side of the big 50 to the other where Davis was lined up. How many yards do you think DJ traveled in the three seconds it took the guard to hit him?

This video is an absolute spotlight on what happens when your team is not physical at the POA... Thomas doesn't even engage his man, Doom is more than happy being sealed off to the outside, fields is crushed by the double team and then DJ does his best to dance around the OG.


Embarrasing... absolutely embarrassing.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 01:00 PM
There is when he's a Chief Hilarious!

I like the tackle, great way to spend 5K IMO

Congrats.

http://chiefschatter.com/files/2009/12/JamaalCharles8.jpg

azbroncfan
01-09-2010, 01:04 PM
3 seconds into the video the guard is on DJ. Charles was still in the backfield when the guard hit him. DJ moved from one side of the big 50 to the other where Davis was lined up. How many yards do you think DJ traveled in the three seconds it took the guard to hit him?

lol Dawkins and Davis both get way out of position and you are going to place blame on DJ who had a guard blocking his knee's on the play? 3-4 LB's are more effective if they are not being blocked 5 yards down field.

Dawkins and Davis were in same gap so one of them screwed up but DJ's overpursuit turned a 5 yard gain into a TD. Again if he just wouldn't have moved at all the G would of overran him on his left shoulder and either reached and held him or DJ would of been in a position to shut the play down. There were several reads by the defenders on that play but DJ could of saved a big play by just doing his responsiblility.

Houshyamama
01-09-2010, 01:04 PM
I think the Broncos learned from the Chiefs that this is a rough sport. We were more physical.

Still riding high from your "Super Bowl" win I see. Enjoy it while it lasts and enjoy another losing season next year. I think most people around here gave the Chiefs credit for thumping our ass but your high and mighty act is wearing thin. The Chiefs still suck, time to remember that and your rightful place in the AFC West... as our doormat.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 01:09 PM
Still riding high from your "Super Bowl" win I see. Enjoy it while it lasts and enjoy another losing season next year. I think most people around here gave the Chiefs credit for thumping our ass but your high and mighty act is wearing thin. The Chiefs still suck, time to remember that and your rightful place in the AFC West... as our doormat.

Not my Superbowl...not the Chiefs Superbowl. The Chiefs beat you every single year.

It was a great win for a team who has had trouble finding wins. Great momentum builder going into next season. Compounded by excitement with some coaching moves...

Bronco Yoda
01-09-2010, 01:10 PM
Did you go back and listen to the whistle on the play?

Or were you sunk into your couch in embarrassment as you mentioned when you saw the play in the game thread.

I think he was going for a pile driver but Charlie was flailing around too much. It was embarrassing that he messed that move up. Oh well. There's always next time.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 01:12 PM
I think he was going for a pile driver but Charlie was flailing around too much. It was embarrassing that he messed that move up. Oh well. There's always next time.

He isn't that good at football. The guy has to make a name for himself somehow right?

cabronco
01-09-2010, 01:14 PM
I will give Charles a 10 on doing the funky chicken , to draw that penalty.

azbroncfan
01-09-2010, 01:16 PM
Great momentum builder going into next season. Compounded by excitement with some coaching moves...

Yeah right. I am sure this meaningless win will be the motto for the season next year. It is probably already forgot about. I am sure Haley will be saying do you remember that win against the 8-7 Denver Broncos last year? It was so great that we can challenge the Super Bowl winners. That game will mean nothing when it comes down to it. Keep telling yourself it does though.

Houshyamama
01-09-2010, 01:16 PM
Not my Superbowl...not the Chiefs Superbowl. The Chiefs beat you every single year.

It was a great win for a team who has had trouble finding wins. Great momentum builder going into next season. Compounded by excitement with some coaching moves...

Oh come on dude, I know at least 3 or 4 Chiefs fans that told me leading up to the game that this was their "Super Bowl". Not my words, theirs.

The Chiefs have averaged 3.3 wins over the last three years, any "excitement" you feel should be accompanied by serious trepidation due to past performance. One win isn't everything. If you remember, the Broncos recently walked into Arrowhead and demolished your newly exciting team. Don't get your hopes too high.

DBroncos4life
01-09-2010, 01:20 PM
Dawkins and Davis were in same gap so one of them screwed up but DJ's overpursuit turned a 5 yard gain into a TD. Again if he just wouldn't have moved at all the G would of overran him on his left shoulder and either reached and held him or DJ would of been in a position to shut the play down. There were several reads by the defenders on that play but DJ could of saved a big play by just doing his responsiblility.

He didn't over pursuit man the ball carrier was still in the backfield by the time the guard in hit him. That guard was running free to block DJ no matter what and in a 3-4 system that is a failure by the front 3. I know what you are trying to say but you can't place the break down of the front 7 on DJ. If anything I would guess that hole should have been closed up by Davis forcing Charles to bounce up top to Dawkins.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 01:24 PM
Yeah right. I am sure this meaningless win will be the motto for the season next year. It is probably already forgot about. I am sure Haley will be saying do you remember that win against the 8-7 Denver Broncos last year? It was so great that we can challenge the Super Bowl winners. That game will mean nothing when it comes down to it. Keep telling yourself it does though.

This is a team that hasn't done a lot of winning. Each win is big. It is especially nice because there has been a lot of offensive improvement...the offense is getting a bit of an identity. They capped off a season getting better...losing a close game to a division winner and then a game on the road against an AFC West rival.

The Chiefs will build on this game.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 01:25 PM
Oh come on dude, I know at least 3 or 4 Chiefs fans that told me leading up to the game that this was their "Super Bowl". Not my words, theirs.



Link? I guess we will have to take your word for it. ROFL!ROFL!

It is also good to know we have won the superbowl so many times in the 2000s hopefully the '10s bring us as much luck. lol

azbroncfan
01-09-2010, 01:27 PM
He didn't over pursuit man the ball carrier was still in the backfield by the time the guard in hit him. That guard was running free to block DJ no matter what and in a 3-4 system that is a failure by the front 3. I know what you are trying to say but you can't place the break down of the front 7 on DJ. If anything I would guess that hole should have been closed up by Davis forcing Charles to bounce up top to Dawkins.

Gap control doesn't have anything to do with where the ball carrier is. There was absolutely no reason for DJ to run sideways. Look again if he would of not moved one inch the G fired out to block the gap where Davis was, he could of ran directly into the cutback lane and stopped the play for a 5 yard gain at best. DJ cause a short gain into a long one with poor gap discipline. there was no point of him being over on the other side of the field. Think what you want though.

fontaine
01-09-2010, 02:49 PM
I think this was Ayers' 2nd personal foul for the year.

He supposedly has great potential but so far he hasn't done anything that a FA like Mario Haggan couldn't do.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 03:05 PM
I think this was Ayers' 2nd personal foul for the year.

He supposedly has great potential but so far he hasn't done anything that a FA like Mario Haggan couldn't do.

That and Mario Haggan is a hilarious name.

gyldenlove
01-09-2010, 03:07 PM
I think this was Ayers' 2nd personal foul for the year.

He supposedly has great potential but so far he hasn't done anything that a FA like Mario Haggan couldn't do.

On the other hand Haggan has done several things Ayers can't like stopping the runner in the backfield, sacking the QB, sealing the outside, keeping containment.

Doggcow
01-09-2010, 03:19 PM
People keep focusing on the whistle. I think that matters little. It was an illegal hit.

Because it was dangerous? So the league should fine people every time they injure someone? ALL HITS IN THE NFL ARE DANGEROUS!

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 03:28 PM
Because it was dangerous?

Because it was unnessicarily dangerous.

the league should fine people every time they injure someone?
No. Nobody said that. Take your straw man somewhere else.

ALL HITS IN THE NFL ARE DANGEROUS!

All of them? There are a lot of mundane hits but that has nothing to do with anything.

Deuce
01-09-2010, 03:30 PM
Why not? He had his hands around his hips and easily could have brought him down...he was getting his ass kicked all day and was frustrated so he slammed him.

Are you really trying to tell me that is the only way he could have brought Charles down?

Its pretty obvious you have never stepped onto a football field. Do you have any idea how hard it is to tackle somebody around the hips when you are behind them? You have absolutely have no leverage, the only way to gain leverage is to use your hips to elevate his center of gravity, just like ayers did. Go back to your couch and acting like you know what the hell you are talking about.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 03:47 PM
Its pretty obvious you have never stepped onto a football field. Do you have any idea how hard it is to tackle somebody around the hips when you are behind them? You have absolutely have no leverage, the only way to gain leverage is to use your hips to elevate his center of gravity, just like ayers did. Go back to your couch and acting like you know what the hell you are talking about.

I have played a who lot of football in my life. I have stepped between the lines of an NFL stadium and played ball. That has little to do with anything though.

He had hold of him he could have brought him into his body to take him down. If he had the leverage to take him the other way and suplex him he had the leverage to simply tackle him.

chadta
01-09-2010, 03:51 PM
i want our guys to play till the whistle, that was the only way he was going to makethe tackle, if ayers lets up and he runs that one in for a touchdown he would be crucified, he made the right play.

If you want to blame anyone blame the refs for not blowing the whistle sooner.

Deuce
01-09-2010, 03:52 PM
I have played a who lot of football in my life. I have stepped between the lines of an NFL stadium and played ball. That has little to do with anything though.

He had hold of him he could have brought him into his body to take him down. If he had the leverage to take him the other way and suplex him he had the leverage to simply tackle him.

So, you were the third string nose tackle for your high school team that played on an NFL field? Thought so...

You have no idea how physics work. Just because you have leverage to tackle him one way does not mean you have enough leverage to tackle him one another way. How else could he have tackled him while in that position?

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 03:52 PM
i want our guys to play till the whistle, that was the only way he was going to makethe tackle, if ayers lets up and he runs that one in for a touchdown he would be crucified, he made the right play.

If you want to blame anyone blame the refs for not blowing the whistle sooner.

That isn't the only way he makes the tackle. Who came up with this silly idea?

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 03:54 PM
So, you were the third string nose tackle for your high school team that played on an NFL field? Thought so...

You have no idea how physics work. Just because you have leverage to tackle him one way does not mean you have enough leverage to tackle him one another way. How else could he have tackled him while in that position?

The top is false. But you need something else to talk about because you are reaching so badly.

If you have your arms completely around the front of a player. Lifting him completely behind you and slamming him on his neck is absolutely not the way only way he can be taken down. To say differently is idiotic.

Deuce
01-09-2010, 03:55 PM
The top is false. But you need something else to talk about because you are reaching so badly.

If you have your arms completely around the front of a player. Lifting him completely behind you and slamming him on his neck is absolutely not the way only way he can be taken down. To say differently is idiotic.

HOW THEN!!!!!!?????? Explain how he could have brought him to the ground while in that position?

jhat01
01-09-2010, 03:57 PM
Link? I guess we will have to take your word for it. ROFL!ROFL!

It is also good to know we have won the superbowl so many times in the 2000s hopefully the '10s bring us as much luck. lol

Yeah you're right, last Super Bowl what...40 years? And about 16 years since since your last playoff win? You guys are bottom dwellers and you know it.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 04:01 PM
HOW THEN!!!!!!?????? Explain how he could have brought him to the ground while in that position?

Drive through him...use your strength you also had a player that was helping him bring him down.

The idea that the way he brought him down was physically the only way he could have done it effectively is idiotic.
http://i47.tinypic.com/jpj5w7.png

Doggcow
01-09-2010, 04:02 PM
Yeah you're right, last Super Bowl what...40 years? And about 16 years since since your last playoff win? You guys are bottom dwellers and you know it.

Nawwww, Brandon Albert, Glenn Dorsey, Tyson Jackson are going to take them to the promised land.... LOL

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 04:03 PM
There are 3 players who could help to bring him down in that picture...each could drive him backwards.

Deuce
01-09-2010, 04:12 PM
Drive through him...use your strength you also had a player that was helping him bring him down.

The idea that the way he brought him down was physically the only way he could have done it effectively is idiotic.
http://i47.tinypic.com/jpj5w7.png

Hahahaha, you have just proved you have never played a down of legitimate football. Drive through him? Drive him forwards where Charles can easily use his strength and forward momentum to continue to plow forward? All Charles would have to do is continue to run forwards and with Ayers "driving through him" and pushing right through Charles' center of gravity, he could have ran indefinitely. The easiest way to tackle somebody at their center of gravity is to disrupt that momentum, not aid their momentum and just push them forward.

Who care about the three other guys that "could have" driven him backwards, the fact is they WEREN'T driving him backwards. What is Ayers supposed to do? Go easy on him and when Charles drags him for another twenty yards, Ayers says "well there were three other guys that 'could have driven him backwards'"

Deuce
01-09-2010, 04:15 PM
Drive through him...use your strength you also had a player that was helping him bring him down.

The idea that the way he brought him down was physically the only way he could have done it effectively is idiotic.
http://i47.tinypic.com/jpj5w7.png

LOL at you using a picture to try to prove your point. Watch the video and it will prove MY point. Charles is in a low strong position, Ayers hips were high, and he had zero ability to "drive through" him, the only way he could gain leverage was to drop his hips and pull charles upwards to get his center of gravity high enough to take him to the ground.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 04:18 PM
Hahahaha, you have just proved you have never played a down of legitimate football. Drive through him? Drive him forwards where Charles can easily use his strength and forward momentum to continue to plow forward? All Charles would have to do is continue to run forwards and with Ayers "driving through him" and pushing right through Charles' center of gravity, he could have ran indefinitely. The easiest way to tackle somebody at their center of gravity is to disrupt that momentum, not aid their momentum and just push them forward.

Who care about the three other guys that "could have" driven him backwards, the fact is they WEREN'T driving him backwards. What is Ayers supposed to do? Go easy on him and when Charles drags him for another twenty yards, Ayers says "well there were three other guys that 'could have driven him backwards'"

No thats bull****, he could have driven him straight towards the sideline and not given up ground. He had him completely wrapped up. The fact that you think he is to much of a pussy to make a simple tackle that is made a thousand times every Sunday has nothing to do with it.

You are a complete homer and full of **** if you think that is the only way to tackle him.

Did you play college ball?

LRtagger
01-09-2010, 04:23 PM
Only time i said his name all year was that play ... nice of him to cost us 15 that one time .
Bust ...

You didn't say his name on that fumble recovery for a TD?


I'm guessing that Chef Olineman didnt get fined for going at Marcus Thomas' knees 20 yards behind the ballcarrier. That was more of a cheap shot than Ayers tackle IMO. At least Ayers' intent was to stop the runner...the cut on Thomas was a blatant attempt to injure him.

Deuce
01-09-2010, 04:24 PM
No thats bull****, he could have driven him straight towards the sideline and not given up ground. He had him completely wrapped up. The fact that you think he is to much of a p***Y to make a simple tackle that is made a thousand times every Sunday has nothing to do with it.

You are a complete homer and full of **** if you think that is the only way to tackle him.

Did you play college ball?

The fact that you think that Charles is that much a pussy to stay be taken down when he has the lower center of gravity and the better position has nothing to do with it. And if you watch the video, he essentially did drive him straight towards the sideline, but it just so happens that Ayers was between Charles and the sideline so the only way to drive him towards the sideline was to pull him over.

I am not going to talk about my athletic career in public. I will send you a PM.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 04:27 PM
The fact that you think that Charles is that much a p***Y to stay be taken down when he has the lower center of gravity and the better position has nothing to do with it. And if you watch the video, he essentially did drive him straight towards the sideline, but it just so happens that Ayers was between Charles and the sideline so the only way to drive him towards the sideline was to pull him over.

I am not going to talk about my athletic career in public. I will send you a PM.

No, go ahead....no actual team names...if you are going to talk all kinds of **** about your career go ahead and post it. I dont give a **** about your PM.

He could have pushed him towards the sideline he was facing. He had full control of Charles to bring down. If you have enough control over Charles...NOT a big guy to slam him like that you have enough to bring him down especially with two other defenders right there.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 04:30 PM
Besides all of this...he had impeded his forward progress already...with other players coming in to assist. You couple that with the slam and it is an obvious no brainer penalty and fine.

People that are not Bronco homers don't even see the debate.

Deuce
01-09-2010, 04:32 PM
No, go ahead....no actual team names...if you are going to talk all kinds of **** about your career go ahead and post it. I dont give a **** about your PM.

He could have pushed him towards the sideline he was facing. He had full control of Charles to bring down. If you have enough control over Charles...NOT a big guy to slam him like that you have enough to bring him down especially with two other defenders right there.

Whatever, I sent you a PM. Where did you play college ball?

If he pushed him towards the other sideline, charles could have easily just put one foot in front of the other and stayed up.

Deuce
01-09-2010, 04:33 PM
Besides all of this...he had impeded his forward progress already...with other players coming in to assist. You couple that with the slam and it is an obvious no brainer penalty and fine.

People that are not Bronco homers don't even see the debate.

Yeah no brainer penalty and fine from referees who have never played the game and a commissioner who has never played the game.

People that actually know what they are talking about don't even see the debate.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 04:35 PM
Whatever, I sent you a PM. Where did you play college ball?

If he pushed him towards the other sideline, charles could have easily just put one foot in front of the other and stayed up.

I didn't play college ball, of course I am not the one trying to compare football cocks on the board...it is for you to be obsessed with.

He had total control of Charles body. The kind of control you would need over someone if you were going to body slam him. It is also funny you totally discount two other defenders in the whole thing.

But I guess Broncos homers know everything and the refs...the NFL...and football watching public are just idiots because you played football. lol

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 04:36 PM
Yeah no brainer penalty and fine from referees who have never played the game and a commissioner who has never played the game.

People that actually know what they are talking about don't even see the debate.
This just in...

The NFL doesn't know **** about the NFL.

Sincerely,

Al Bundy.


Dude I am glad you had 6 touchdowns against Polk High. Let it go. You couldn't be more wrong here.

Deuce
01-09-2010, 04:41 PM
I didn't play college ball, of course I am not the one trying to compare football cocks on the board...it is for you to be obsessed with.

He had total control of Charles body. The kind of control you would need over someone if you were going to body slam him. It is also funny you totally discount two other defenders in the whole thing.

But I guess Broncos homers know everything and the refs...the NFL...and football watching public are just idiots because you played football. lol

This is exactly my point. Everybody sits on their couches and nobody has any idea about what they are talking about. Everybody thinks they know so much about football and how to play, and "oh, he should have down this or that" And yet these are the same people who on monday morning are putting suit and ties on and heading to the A/R department. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, all I am saying is, don't act like you know what the **** you are talking about. Don't act like you know how to tackle an NFL caliber player, because you don't, and never will. It was clear that at that split second, the only way Ayers thought he could get Charles down was to do what he did.

I really dont post on here much because I try not to question the broncos, the players or the coaches too much, because I have no idea whats going on behind closed doors. I have no idea what its like to be an NFL player or coach or GM. They are there for a reason and for us to act like we know better is ignorant.

chadta
01-09-2010, 04:47 PM
it was all about timing.

look at the dawkins slam, contact was made and he was slammed, look at ayers, contact was made, they sorta fought for inches which took time, if it was more instant not a word would be said about it.

If your going to keep fighting for the extra inches, and want the refs to keep letting you play, you cant bitch about it when you get slammed on your head after you had been stopped.

so pick a side, either take quick whistles to stop plays like that but also stop hard fought extra yards, or let them play and get your extra yards but realize that sometimes your gonna end up on your head.

Deuce
01-09-2010, 04:59 PM
I didn't play college ball, of course I am not the one trying to compare football cocks on the board...it is for you to be obsessed with.

He had total control of Charles body. The kind of control you would need over someone if you were going to body slam him. It is also funny you totally discount two other defenders in the whole thing.

But I guess Broncos homers know everything and the refs...the NFL...and football watching public are just idiots because you played football. lol

The reason I brought up playing football is because if you did play you would know how hard it is to tackle somebody while in this position. That's why you see this move all the time in wrestling (real wrestling) and mma. If they could get them down another way, why would they waste all their energy lifting their opponent completely off the ground and over their own shoulder. The reason is because in this position, you lack leverage, now listen to this carefully, I have said this numerous times but you just cant seem to understand it. The only way to gain leverage is by dropping your hips and getting your center of gravity lower than your opponents, this is the only way to gain an advantage. And the only way to gain that advantage in this position was to lift him and use that momentum to take him over your shoulder. Without this, he would essentially just be playing piggy back. Now why don't you go back to your couch and talk to somebody who doesn't know how to play football, then you can act all smart and knowledgeable and stuff.

orinjkrush
01-09-2010, 05:57 PM
i hope that money goes to charles' chiropractor

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 06:18 PM
This is exactly my point. Everybody sits on their couches and nobody has any idea about what they are talking about. Everybody thinks they know so much about football and how to play, and "oh, he should have down this or that" And yet these are the same people who on monday morning are putting suit and ties on and heading to the A/R department. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, all I am saying is, don't act like you know what the **** you are talking about. Don't act like you know how to tackle an NFL caliber player, because you don't, and never will. It was clear that at that split second, the only way Ayers thought he could get Charles down was to do what he did.

I really dont post on here much because I try not to question the broncos, the players or the coaches too much, because I have no idea whats going on behind closed doors. I have no idea what its like to be an NFL player or coach or GM. They are there for a reason and for us to act like we know better is ignorant.
I have played with and tackled Darren Sproles, Ladell Betts, and Brandon Lloyd before.

But that doesn't mean ****. You are not out playing on Sundays right now.

You are not special, neither am I.

It really doesn't take anyone special to see that suplexing Charles was not the only outcome that could have happened to stop Charles.

GreatBronco16
01-09-2010, 07:53 PM
Oh Jesus Christ Zach. Just shut your di****cker and go take some pictures. You are not going to win this stupid debate here on this board. If you want to win this debate, go talk to someone on another board. Your constant crying in this thread is a ****ing joke. Now run along.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 08:07 PM
Oh Jesus Christ Zach. Just shut your di******er and go take some pictures. You are not going to win this stupid debate here on this board. If you want to win this debate, go talk to someone on another board. Your constant crying in this thread is a ****ing joke. Now run along.

Great take!

Tom A Hawk
01-09-2010, 08:10 PM
I enjoyed the tackle.

I enjoyed the ass kicking the donks got

jhat01
01-09-2010, 08:46 PM
I enjoyed the ass kicking the donks got

Well at least you got to see the Chorfs win one SB in your life. I doubt you'll see another.

baja
01-09-2010, 08:56 PM
Honestly I thought it would be much more than 5k. That was bush-league frustration venting by a marginal player, on a defense that was getting clowned by Jamaal Charles. Ayers should have been ejected.

I thought he would be ejected too. That was embarrassing for a Bronco fan

Dedhed
01-09-2010, 09:27 PM
It was after the whistle.

No it wasn't.

Dedhed
01-09-2010, 09:30 PM
That was embarrassing for a Bronco fan
Not this one.

There's a highlight of Dawkins making the exact same tackle, and it's lauded as hard nosed football. No different with Ayers.

Broncos4tw
01-09-2010, 10:40 PM
It's a 5k fine.. it's over with.. it's honestly not a big deal. I thought it was stupid if only from a penalty standpoint. But c'mon.. NO player in the league wants to be picked up, and bodyslammed backwards, where the player has no outcome on their fate. I'd be royally PO'd if any player did that to a Bronco player, and it was just as stupid here.

Bronco Yoda
01-09-2010, 11:09 PM
It really doesn't take anyone special to see that suplexing Charles was not the only outcome that could have happened to stop Charles.

Maybe not... but it sure was the most enjoyable one to watch. I say we do it again next year just to kick some sand in your little panties.

ZachKC
01-09-2010, 11:43 PM
Maybe not... but it sure was the most enjoyable one to watch. I say we do it again next year just to kick some sand in your little panties.

Yes, lets do it next year. I will take a win on the field and you can take...I am not sure what it is you are calling this but you can have it! :rofl:

Houshyamama
01-10-2010, 12:55 AM
Link? I guess we will have to take your word for it. ROFL!ROFL!

It is also good to know we have won the superbowl so many times in the 2000s hopefully the '10s bring us as much luck. lol

haha, oh Chiefs fans. I really hope for your sake that your hopes aren't that high for next year. Keep in mind that the season ending loss to the Chiefs was absolutely embarrassing. There wasn't the feeling you get when you know you lost to a comparable or better team. No, it was just plain embarrassing. I can't blame you if you're riding high all off season over your Super Bowl win, God knows you haven't had much to be happy about for a long time. Just don't get used to the elation.

Vladimir
01-10-2010, 08:09 AM
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/richboy901/Animated/dawkins.gif

yeah!

rugbythug
01-10-2010, 09:18 AM
This Hit was legal. But has since been deemed illegal Circa horsecollar. You are no longer allowed to Pile drive or suplex players. Although you could have just a couple of years ago.