PDA

View Full Version : Why I'm happy we have McDaniels as our coach now, and for the future


RunYouOver26
01-08-2010, 05:33 PM
Don't mean to keep this whole annoying debate going on, but as always, I have my opinion, and since I can't keep my posts short, I had to make this thread. Deal with it ;)

If you've watched enough football, have enough football intelligence, and have been around the game enough to be a part of an organization....then you know that at certain points, it becomes time to make a change. Shanahan was a fantastic coach, and I was very mad when he was fired. However, his message was getting stale here...we had a LOT of talent, but couldn't pull it out down the stretch, and for the second straight year, collapsed. It was time for a change, it really was.

Now, people who say that a) we never should've fired Shanny and b) our team last year was amazing, why would McD break it up...you guys have yourselves in a hole.

If Shanny really was the perfect person for this team, then how did he collapse with such a great team? OR, if those guys were true team players and winners, how could a coach like Shanny not get them into the playoffs?

I happen to believe Shanny was a great coach, and, looking back on it, it's more on the players.

If Kyle Orton can lead us to 8-8, then one of 2 things is apparent: Either a) Jay Cutler was incredibly overrated (see: 2009 Chicago Bears) or b) McDaniels has a LOT of potential as a head coach...think of our team this year with a top quarterback.

This time, I think it's a combination of both...Orton clearly isn't the answer, but how is it that we can substitute Orton for Cutler and wind up with the same result? Sure, the defense improved, but statistically speaking, Kyle Orton ran just as productive an offense as Cutler.

Don't believe me? Don't look at the yardage, because that was misleading. Last year, under Shanny, our team was miserable in the red zone. Despite having the #2 passing offense in football, we were 16th in scoring. This year, we were 20th in scoring. OK, so last year was a little better, but--our TO ratio last year: -17. This year? +7. That's a HUGE difference. Last year, 24 was the difference between the first place team in TOs, and the 26th.

So was our defense that horrible last year? Looking only at the obvious statistics, yes. When you think about the average field position, total number of possessions against and plays from scrimmage, you'll see otherwise.

Our defense had some of the WORST starting field position in football, often putting them in a real tough spot. We GAVE the other team the ball THIRTY times last year, not even including missed fourth downs, of which we had eight.

If you don't think Cutler's play put our defense in a significant hole, you're just not looking at the right statistics.

So back to my point, it was more of the players than it was Shanahan, but NOW, McDaniels is leading a productive team despite lacking a major talent at the most important position.

We WERE 6-0, with a really crappy team, in my opinion. Yes, we fell apart down the stretch, but damn, what were the expectations before the season? In my opinion, a good coach is one who exceeds the expectations for a team, or one who gets their team deep into the playoffs. In our case, we DOUBLED our projected win total in many predictions.

You can't just give a guy ONE year and expect him to turn everything around. Not gonna happen. If it does, it was because they inherited a great team. I give McDaniels 3 years to get us to be a SB contender. This guy can coach, he's young and he wants a team full of winners, and there is NOTHING wrong with that. If you think it's more important to let one selfish player take over your team, you're wrong, and that's why you're not in the business.

I have total confidence McDaniels will get us into the playoffs next year, likely as a wild card. Unfortunately, I'm sure that won't even be good for some fans.

The good news? The Broncos aren't firing him because a bunch of impatient fans expect immediate results and "don't like his attitude." The fact that he's young means he'll continue to learn more and more every year, and he's the kind of coach I expect to remain with us for as long as Shanahan did.

Don't forget...he EXCEEDED expectations. At one point this season, we were talked about as a potential super bowl team. Yes, we collapsed, that sucks, everyone knows that...the point is...would a crappy coach even get us to 6-0, with a team led by Kyle Orton?

I don't think so.

OABB
01-08-2010, 05:46 PM
please elaborate.

watermock
01-08-2010, 05:49 PM
we collapsed, that sucks, everyone knows that...the point is...would a crappy coach even get us to 6-0, with a team led by Kyle Orton?


Stokely and Marshall got us to 6-0, and Orton played very well. I wan't his fault Indy put up 21 in the first Q.

We got 3 TO's in that game. The offense sucked salty balls.

worm
01-08-2010, 06:15 PM
truly you have a dizzying intellect.

DenverBrit
01-08-2010, 06:24 PM
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/funny-pictures-bored-cat.jpg

gyldenlove
01-08-2010, 06:30 PM
we had a LOT of talent, but couldn't pull it out down the stretch, and for the second straight year, collapsed. It was time for a change, it really was.

but statistically speaking, Kyle Orton ran just as productive an offense as Cutler.

our team was miserable in the red zone.

So was our defense that horrible last year? Looking only at the obvious statistics, yes. When you think about the average field position, total number of possessions against and plays from scrimmage, you'll see otherwise.

Our defense had some of the WORST starting field position in football, often putting them in a real tough spot. We GAVE the other team the ball THIRTY times last year, not even including missed fourth downs, of which we had eight.

So back to my point, it was more of the players than it was Shanahan, but NOW, McDaniels is leading a productive team despite lacking a major talent at the most important position.

We WERE 6-0, with a really crappy team, in my opinion. Yes, we fell apart down the stretch, but damn, what were the expectations before the season? In my opinion, a good coach is one who exceeds the expectations for a team, or one who gets their team deep into the playoffs. In our case, we DOUBLED our projected win total in many predictions.

Don't forget...he EXCEEDED expectations. At one point this season, we were talked about as a potential super bowl team. Yes, we collapsed, that sucks, everyone knows that...the point is...would a crappy coach even get us to 6-0, with a team led by Kyle Orton?


I left out the fluff and just kept the contentious/wrong bits.

We had a really talented team last year? yet the coach you claim to be very good turned over about half the starters and more than 1/3 of the roster. This doesn't jive at all, if we had such a talented team then a good coach would clearly have kept the team in place, like Caldwell did in Indianapolis. There are only 2 logical explanations, a) the team we had last year wasn't very talented or b) Mcdaniels is a ****ty coach.

I think it is a), we didn't have a very good team.

No, in fact the offense was nowhere near as effective. Scoring was down, 3rd down conversions down, red zone scoring down. All the metric of efficiency went down, most by significant amounts.

Our team last year scored TDs on 54% of our red zone possessions, which ranked in the top 10, this year: 45% which ranked in the bottom 10.

The reason we ranked the middle of the league in scrimmage plays on defense is because we were the 3rd worst team when it comes to yards per play on defense, which is a much more saying number. Teams didn't need a lot of plays to move the ball.

This year our offense gave the ball away 23 times on turnovers and 11 times on 4th downs missed. Down 4 from last year, that doesn't seem like a big change.

So now we are lacking major talent? But we had so much of it last year, where did it go?

Now the team is downright really crappy, wow what a fall from grace. A talented team in 2008 became a team lacking major talent and now a really crappy team?

Wow, we are good team because we won more games than some media people predicted. At least we won more games than last year when our coach got fired and we had to turn over half the starters and 1/3 of the roster.. oh no wait, that is my bad, I thought for a second there we had really improved.

Who talked about us as a super bowl team? At no point in the season did we get mentioned with Minnesota, Indianapolis and New Orleans as super bowl candidates.

Here is a coach you might want to read up on: Lovie Smith, he got a team lead by Kyle Orton to the playoffs, by extension of your logic he must then be an amazing coach - oh no wait, what is that I don't hear? people chanting Lovie's name - could it be that this apparently amazing coach didn't get his team to the playoffs?

Meck77
01-08-2010, 06:45 PM
I'll keep it simple. You got to shake things up to get different results. Bowlen isn't some chump that some make him out to be. McD will get this baby turned around next season.

I'm going to reach here a bit but my gut says those that don't understand what Bowlen did are just risk averse type personalities in general. High Risk! High reward!

TheReverend
01-08-2010, 06:50 PM
I'm guessing you're 16.

Amirite?

jhns
01-08-2010, 06:57 PM
I agree that McDaniels has made a better team than what we had last year. This one has a defense. I also agree last years team had troubles in the red zone and with turnovers.

I don't agree with how you represent the defense or offense. First off, our offense had the 32nd ranked starting field position. Our defense had the 16th ranked starting field position. It sure looks to me like the offense is the one in a bad situation and gave the defense a huge advantage here. They made up 16 places.

Our offense drove the furthest per drive in the league. We punted the fewest times per drive in the league. We also were 9th in both scoring per drive and TDs per drive. The problem is we were also near the bottom of the league in turnovers per drive. The defense was also one away from a record for fewest turnovers in a season. The defense is just as much to blame for that turnover ratio.

We weren't the 16th scoring offense. That is a team stat. Just taking out defensive and special teams TDs, we were 11th in scoring. We go to 9th if you add a FG, or you can pretend we had a good kicker last year and still blame the scoring problem on the offense. This years team has more TDs from the defense and special teams, as well as an accurate kicker, and still ranks lower. Our defense saw the 2nd fewest drives in the league and was still the worst defense in Bronco history. I don't see how you can even begin to defend that or blame any of it on the offense.

What you don't seem to have thought about though is the fact that the entire offense last year was made up of rookie-3rd year players. Both the offense and defense had a ton of injuries. There are some pretty good explanations for being inconsistent. I don't get how you can even begin to say last years offense didn't show it could be special. The problem was Shanahan didn't have anything resembling a defense. I agree it was time for him to go. That doesn't mean we have to dog last years team and pretend it didn't have any upside. McDaniels made a far better defense but the offense has regressed. I hope he can now fix the line and get a QB that can be productive. If that happens, I see him having a bright and long future here. I have no doubt they will finish building the defense.

I could go on all day but I have to get ready to go.

Also, here are the stats I am pulling: http://aaronschatz.com/stats/drivestats2008

JCMElway
01-08-2010, 09:12 PM
truly you have a dizzying intellect.

Wait 'till I get going! Where was I?

RunYouOver26
01-08-2010, 10:35 PM
I left out the fluff and just kept the contentious/wrong bits.

We had a really talented team last year? yet the coach you claim to be very good turned over about half the starters and more than 1/3 of the roster. This doesn't jive at all, if we had such a talented team then a good coach would clearly have kept the team in place, like Caldwell did in Indianapolis. There are only 2 logical explanations, a) the team we had last year wasn't very talented or b) Mcdaniels is a ****ty coach.

I think it is a), we didn't have a very good team.

I'm all for a debate on this...

The title of the thread is why I'm happy we have him now, and for the future. I don't think McDaniels is a great coach right now, but I think he shows plenty of potential to become one in the next few years.

Let's get some things straight so we're on the same page here...McDaniels screwed up the end of the season, he didn't handle things great in pre-season, and overall, he showed that he was truly a young, inexperienced rookie coach (redundant, I know). All that blame I'm willing to throw on him for the disasterous 2-8 collapse down the stretch? I'm willing to give him equal credit for the shocking 6-0 start. To come in and start his first season with that much adversity...and go 6-0, that's remarkable, and to me, shows his potential as a coach.

Was their luck in the 6-0 start? Of course. Was their bad luck in the 2-8 finish...absolutely. That's why I cancel it out, it goes both was...always has, always will.

For as good as his gameplans were early in the season, his adjustments and strategy towards the end of the year sucked. Other coaches, ones with experience, picked apart what he liked to do and he didn't mix things up enough to keep up successful down the stretch. It was his fault.

But you don't hire someone like McDaniels to see the whole one year turnaround. The very fact that we finished with the same record as last year is impressive to me. This will take a few years, his big mistakes this year were all things he can learn from. He's a football guy...been surrounded by the sport his whole life, and from the beginning of the season, he's proved to me that he knows how to coach too.

It's all something I think experience will handle, and I think he'll be a damn good coach with a couple years under his belt.

I know...this isn't a real response to most of your argument...mainly because that wasn't the goal of my initial argument.

My point was...anyone expecting a mistake free first year must not watch much football or understand the game very well. Give him a few years, he'll be just fine.

ZONA
01-08-2010, 11:18 PM
Yeah, bottom line is that with so much turnover in players, coaches, schemes and what not, throw it most difficult schedule in the NFL, playing so many teams coming off their bye week, I think the season went decent. Not great, not bad, but decent. We started hot, had some luck, but had some bad luck late.

As miffed as I was at how it ended, I'm still pumped for next year.

baja
01-08-2010, 11:59 PM
I know McD will be coach of the year one of these seasons. ;D

No really!

NFLBRONCO
01-09-2010, 12:02 AM
I'm glad McD understands that in todays NFL you need BIGGER lines.

TheDave
01-09-2010, 12:02 AM
I know McD will be coach of the year one of these seasons. ;D

No really!

Now all you have to do is lock that in by betting some one... ;D

worm
01-09-2010, 12:16 AM
wait 'till i get going! Where was i?

rep!!!

Popps
01-09-2010, 12:24 AM
Nothing wrong with the thread. It's a sincere, optimistic opinion. God forbid a fan have a positive outlook about his team around here.

Hope you're right. I'm equally optimistic. It was time for a change and I believe we made an excellent choice, despite the early turbulence.

TomServo
01-09-2010, 03:29 AM
i thought shanny needed to go. he was stale, but McD is a freakin disaster.

Archer81
01-09-2010, 03:40 AM
i thought shanny needed to go. he was stale, but McD is a freakin disaster.


Yeah...8-8 is SO horrible for a rookie HC...


:Broncos:

watermock
01-09-2010, 03:47 AM
Yeah...8-8 is SO horrible for a rookie HC...


:Broncos:

No, but 2-8 down the stretch is, with home losses to 2 of the worst teams not only in our division, but the entire NFL.

TomServo
01-09-2010, 03:51 AM
Yeah...8-8 is SO horrible for a rookie HC...
when we start 6-0
that is a freakin disaster
O yay we started 6-0
but we won two games all of the last TEN
That is a disaster.
lets reverse it. lets say we went 2-8 and then 6-0?
How is that? THAT, i would like.
NO we won Two whole games the last two months Woo freakin Hoo

TomServo
01-09-2010, 03:56 AM
everything got worse as the year went on. But O YAY we got 6 sloppy wins YAY.
we lost to the raiders and chiefs just one win could mean playoffs, at home. yay 8-8

Archer81
01-09-2010, 04:04 AM
when we start 6-0
that is a freakin disaster
O yay we started 6-0
but we won two games all of the last TEN
That is a disaster.
lets reverse it. lets say we went 2-8 and then 6-0?
How is that? THAT, i would like.
NO we won Two whole games the last two months Woo freakin Hoo


2006: started 6-2. Finished 3-5. (2-2 last qtr of season)
2007: started 3-5. Finished 4-4. (2-2 last qtr of season)
2008: Started 4-4. Finished 4-4. (1-3 last qtr of season)
2009: Started 6-2. Finished 2-6. (0-4 last qtr of season)

Seems to me the last 4 seasons this team swan dives late in the year. Perspective, please.

:Broncos:

NYBronco
01-09-2010, 04:17 AM
McD continues to put his team together and I am optimistic and excited for the future. An 8-8 season with all the selfish (Marshall) drama that continued to the final week is impressive for a team that was only expected to post a 3 or 4 win season.

Cito Pelon
01-09-2010, 12:08 PM
I'm guessing you're 16.

Amirite?

Amirite must be your birthstone, Rev.

I mean, really, how could anybody be so unerringly accurate as yourself without a mineral like Amirite behind them.

TonyR
01-09-2010, 12:30 PM
What I keep shaking my head about is that if the Broncos don't inexplicably shiz the bed at home against Oak and KC we're all holding hands and singing Kumbaya right now. We'd be gearing up for our first playoff game in a quite a while. The performances in those games just defy logic, particularly in contrast to how well they played for parts of the games against Indy and Phila. Ruined what shoulda/coulda/woulda been a nice 10-6 season. Sigh.

barryr
01-09-2010, 12:43 PM
If Shanahan can be given a decade to win 1 playoff game, maybe McDaniels should at least be given a second year before downgrading any and everything he does and calling him the stupid, silly names some insist on doing around here in every thread. It's gotten old already.

barryr
01-09-2010, 12:46 PM
What I keep shaking my head about is that if the Broncos don't inexplicably shiz the bed at home against Oak and KC we're all holding hands and singing Kumbaya right now. We'd be gearing up for our first playoff game in a quite a while. The performances in those games just defy logic, particularly in contrast to how well they played for parts of the games against Indy and Phila. Ruined what shoulda/coulda/woulda been a nice 10-6 season. Sigh.

From this season:

Negative: Broncos lost all home games to division rivals

Positive: Broncos won all road games within the division(they haven't done that very often even in their playoff years)

Cito Pelon
01-10-2010, 12:43 PM
What I keep shaking my head about is that if the Broncos don't inexplicably shiz the bed at home against Oak and KC we're all holding hands and singing Kumbaya right now. We'd be gearing up for our first playoff game in a quite a while. The performances in those games just defy logic, particularly in contrast to how well they played for parts of the games against Indy and Phila. Ruined what shoulda/coulda/woulda been a nice 10-6 season. Sigh.

I'm so gotdang furious right now about that same thing I don't know what to say. Lack of mental toughness, what?

db56
01-10-2010, 05:24 PM
I was pissed when Shanahan was fired but after I calmed down I realized that he was a coach that was just too comfortable in his "head coach for life" cush, coaching job in Denver. Success came early for Shanny and in the last years it just seemed like going through the motions to me and I'm glad Mr. Bowlen had the nuts to make the change.

McDaniels has the pedigree to be a great HC and he definitely showed signs in his rookie season, I can remember any coach in history that has to endure so much and still had as much success. Crying, sniveling, prima donna qb's and other players that havent proved a damn thing being pissed off because they were told that they had not yet arrived and were subject to the same rules as everyone else, and fans who still think this is 1998 and Elway is going to show up and pull it off in the fourth quarter and we can all feel great, grow the !@#k up!! we all look at the Patriots and Brady and Cassell and say thats it! but I say not so fast, and it was proved when he took Knowshon with the first pick, evidently he believes that a running game is also important.

I'm trying to sit back and give McD a fair chance, he deserves it but I do think he made a mistake when he celebrated after the win against the Pats, save the victory lap and the hammer celebration for a Super Bowl victory son...