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Lolad
01-07-2010, 08:24 AM
Josina Anderson:  Your first season in the league you had 68 carries for 343 yards under Mike Shanahan. This season, under Josh McDaniels you logged 13 carries for 54 yards. Having said that, when you look back at this year, how do you feel this season went?

Peyton Hillis:  Well, I was kind of like everybody else in that I was expecting a lot of good things to happen to me this year, especially after last season.  Unfortunately, when the new coaching staff arrived it ended up not being that way. It really got me down for a little while. However, I just accepted it because I am really kind of used to it from my days at Arkansas being very similar. It’s been a rough road but I tend to overcome things like this and come out on top. With me not knowing what will happen next year, meaning whether I stay here or go somewhere else, it’s totally out of my hands.  It’s up to the coaching staff and everybody else to really decide that for me. Wherever my opportunity is, I am going to be grateful and try to take advantage of it. If I stay here, I just got to prove to my coaches that I deserve to play and that I deserve to be here.

Josina: So with that, what do you think your future is with the Broncos? What can you tell Denver fans about the likelihood of whether you will stay in Denver?

Peyton: Well when you look at yourself and you realize that you’re not playing very much anything can happen.  I have to anticipate that I might return, or that I that I might get cut. I have to keep everything up in the air right now so I am not caught off guard if it happens.

Josina:  What do you think was the reason for your decline in playing time this season, and for your decrease in production?  Some of your teammates that I talk to think it’s a combination of your preseason performance, your fumble against Cleveland early in the regular season, and the politics of McDaniels’ guys Moreno and Buckhalter being in front of you.

Peyton:  Well yes, I did fumble one time against Cleveland and that was it. It does feel like all the opportunities I had or could have had demolished after that point, but I thought I had a really good preseason. I thought I was doing exceptionally well, but hey life is full of surprises.

Josina: So do you think politics played a part in how your season unraveled when you consider the fact you had only one fumble this season, and Moreno had four?

Peyton: Well when you get a new head coach, a new philosophy, a new scheme, and he brings all of his new guys, you’re probably going to have to accept that you might have to take a backseat. I’m just the type of guy that continues to work hard and the guy that continues to hope that eventually my coaches will see my potential and talent. When it comes to Knowshon, obviously (McDaniels) drafted him so he is going to get more opportunities.


Josina:  As the season progressed, and the media and fans observed that you were not getting as much playing time, many of them assumed that you were in the doghouse.  Did you ever feel like you were, was there ever any tension between you and McDaniels?

Peyton:  Being the guy that I am, I’m not the one to ask a lot of questions or question the leader. I just kind of like to let things happen the way they will. I’m the one that is going to just put my head down and keep on working hard. Josh and I were always very friendly whenever we talked to one another.  We didn’t talk a lot, but when we did it was very conversational.

Josina:  But do you feel now in hindsight, given the way that you just described the nature of your personality that perhaps you should have spoke up more on your own behalf?

Peyton: I think not.  I think that I am a smart enough guy to speak up if I feel like I can get something accomplished. But being a 7th round draft pick, I just realize that I am in less of a position to impose myself on any coach. So, there was really no reason in doing that.

Josina:  But what about a case like your teammate Tony Carter? He was on the Broncos practice squad most of the season, and Josh promoted him to the active roster.  Evidently your introductory status is not related to your ability to advance or progress, or so it would seem from that example. What’s the truth, or what was your truth?


Peyton: Tony (Carter) is still (McDaniels’) guy. They brought him in as (an undrafted free agent), so I feel like (McDaniels) still has more of a comfort level with a guy like Tony when it comes to integrating him into his own system.  My experience in what I had to deal with individually was different, so there is really nothing different that I could have done about it.

Josina:  So when you see all the drama that began under this new regime, and how it flared up again at the end of the season with the “McScheffler” and the latest “McMarshall” episodes, what goes through your head? When you combine what happen with you and those guys, is it your observation that the locker room is split between Shanahan’s guys and McDaniels’ guys?

Peyton:  That could be the case.  I really couldn’t say to tell you the truth. I don’t know the story behind Brandon (Marshall) and Tony (Scheffler). What I do know is that this is a business. As far as the guys that are left over from the Shanahan era, you can only hope that we are all on the same playing field; so in the end, what can you do?

Josina:  So what did you hear about your future in your exit interview?

Peyton:  I was told they just need to take some more time and go over everything to determine how they feel about me.  I was fine with that. There’s nothing I can do about that. Time will tell.

Josina:  So do you want to be here in Denver Peyton? Could you be happy if you had the same playing time next season? Obviously, Moreno will still be here, and there is a good chance Buckhalter will remain as well with how things currently stand.

Peyton:  I guess it would all depend on if things would change. I don’t really know what will happen at this point.  I love being here. I love being a Bronco, and I love this city.

Josina:  So is your happiness dependant upon your playing time?

Peyton:  Most definitely.  I went from doing really good things for this team to not doing anything, and I would like to be a good teammate and contribute. Clearly, the overall success of this team is very important to me, but also within that I would like things to change because right now it’s all speculation what coach thinks about me. But to say once again, most definitely I would like things to change.

tsiguy96
01-07-2010, 08:27 AM
thats the same MO of most players in the NFL. if they arent playing where they are at but could play somewhere else, they prolly want to go to that place...

vancejohnson82
01-07-2010, 08:27 AM
amazing....this was posted yesterday with a completely different thread title

Dagmar
01-07-2010, 08:27 AM
Josina Anderson

Stopped reading there.

ColoradoBuff
01-07-2010, 08:28 AM
great interview. hopefully he stays a Bronco. If not, good luck where ever you go Peyton!

The Joker
01-07-2010, 08:30 AM
I hate it when my opportunities demolish.

BOOO!!!!

He's pretty much gone, I reckon. Still think his long term future is as a pure RB, he more or less sucks as a lead blocker so keeping him there seems foolish.

Just hand him the ball and tell him to run forward and you might have a back that can contribute in some capacity.

BigPlayShay
01-07-2010, 08:34 AM
Anyone else think Josina wants to kill McDaniels as much as Law wants to kill Marshall? Someone should start a poll.

Beantown Bronco
01-07-2010, 08:34 AM
Sure, dude, that one fumble did you in.....how about the 3 short yardage plays out of 4 that they called your number during the opening drive in Oakland, only to have you false start and get stuffed twice in a row.

It's not like that one fumble did you in....sorry.

strafen
01-07-2010, 08:38 AM
Sure, dude, that one fumble did you in.....how about the 3 short yardage plays out of 4 that they called your number during the opening drive in Oakland, only to have you false start and get stuffed twice in a row.

It's not like that one fumble did you in....sorry.The guy had 13 freakin' carriesw all season long.
You're obviously looking hard in the wrong places to back-up a worthless argument
The fact of the matter remains Hillis did not get the playing time he deserved to make a difference. Period!

oubronco
01-07-2010, 08:40 AM
Sure, dude, that one fumble did you in.....how about the 3 short yardage plays out of 4 that they called your number during the opening drive in Oakland, only to have you false start and get stuffed twice in a row.

It's not like that one fumble did you in....sorry.

well then what about Morenos 20-30 short yardage carries that were stuffed, should he be treated the same

Beantown Bronco
01-07-2010, 08:41 AM
The guy had 13 freakin' carriesw all season long.
You're obviously looking hard in the wrong places to back-up a worthless argument
The fact of the matter remains Hillis did not get the playing time he deserved to make a difference. Period!

Try to at least stay CLOSE to on-point. Please don't quote me unless you're responding to something I wrote.

fontaine
01-07-2010, 08:42 AM
I can't see him here in Denver next season. He doesn't get on the field as a RB or FB and isn't good enough for special teams.

Maybe Shanahan picks him up in Washington!! lol

Requiem
01-07-2010, 08:43 AM
Behind Hillis words lay a Devil with a pitchfork.

Beantown Bronco
01-07-2010, 08:43 AM
well then what about Morenos 20-30 short yardage carries that were stuffed, should he be treated the same

Depends on what the coaches saw in the film the day after the game. What if he got stuffed because there were 2 or 3 guys in the backfield, whereas maybe Hillis got stuffed because he missed his hole and ran into a guy he shouldn't have? We are not privy to all that goes on behind the scenes, so I will trust that the coaches have good reason for doing what they're doing.

McD has NOTHING to gain by benching Hillis and going with Moreno if Hillis actually gives him a better chance of gaining those yards and scoring TDs. Sorry. It's not a conspiracy to play "his" guys. That's the quickest way to get fired. It looks a lot worse for McD if he chooses to lose with his guys as opposed to winning with Shanny's guys. Do you disagree?

Jason in LA
01-07-2010, 08:44 AM
Seems like she was asking some very leading questions. Like she just wanted to know the drama that was going on. Hillis was smart to avoid giving her what she really wanted.

PRBronco
01-07-2010, 08:44 AM
Maybe I'm being dyslexic, I just scanned it, but I don't see where he says he wants out.

Beantown Bronco
01-07-2010, 08:46 AM
Hillis was smart to avoid giving her what she really wanted.

From what I've read about her, this part probably took place after the interview. DVD release date unknown.

Requiem
01-07-2010, 08:48 AM
Josina should be following the Special Olympics. In that regard, she'd get to interview like-minded people.

bpc
01-07-2010, 08:52 AM
Hey Peyton, good luck where ever you go. I'm sure you'll work hard and do well.

Dagmar
01-07-2010, 08:54 AM
Anyone else think Josina wants to kill McDaniels as much as Law wants to kill Marshall? Someone should start a poll.

Seriously, what the hell is up with this chick?

Apart from the obvious!

http://www.kdvr.com/media/photo/2009-01/44679837.jpg

Yikes, just yikes. Wait...


















http://johnryanrecabar.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/the-grinch.jpg

bpc
01-07-2010, 09:02 AM
Seriously, what the hell is up with this chick?

Apart from the obvious!

http://www.kdvr.com/media/photo/2009-01/44679837.jpg




http://johnryanrecabar.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/the-grinch.jpg


That is one ugly b****.

Dagmar
01-07-2010, 09:03 AM
That is one ugly b****.

She looks bitter, very bitter about something.

PRBronco
01-07-2010, 09:06 AM
She looks bitter, very bitter about something.

Seriously, she wants to bring down whitey. She hates that McDaniels got the job over Morris, and she thinks that if she paraphrases Hillis she can create infighting, because she assumes they're all in cahoots. /puts on tinfoil hat

Requiem
01-07-2010, 09:08 AM
Who wouldn't tap that? :wiggle:

The Joker
01-07-2010, 09:12 AM
I'd do her up the wrong one, that'd be as far as I'd go though in all honesty.

gtown
01-07-2010, 09:20 AM
Strange as it may seem, Hillis might have trade value, if McD decides to go a different direction. The guy was pretty good in 2008 and can play fullback, run the ball, and catch it out of the backfield.

Rabb
01-07-2010, 09:24 AM
Seems like she was asking some very leading questions. Like she just wanted to know the drama that was going on. Hillis was smart to avoid giving her what she really wanted.

yep, she was just trolling

I really hate her

Requiem
01-07-2010, 09:24 AM
Lets hope that he and Scheffler both have some sort of value. I really like Marshall, and want him to stay, but woot.

Popps
01-07-2010, 09:36 AM
Hey Peyton, good luck where ever you go. I'm sure you'll work hard and do well.

:spit:

Dagmar
01-07-2010, 09:37 AM
I'd do her up the wrong one, that'd be as far as I'd go though in all honesty.

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/sportatorium/TV%20-%20Chapelle.jpg
Coooooooooooooooooooold blooooooooooded!

rastaman
01-07-2010, 09:38 AM
great interview. hopefully he stays a Bronco. If not, good luck where ever you go Peyton!

Yep, Peyton was and remains a class act. He's the ultimate team player both at the collegite level and here in Denver. I want to see him have a successful career either as a Bronco or with another NFL team.

Should McD release of cuts Hillis, I sure hope Shanny is keeping his eyes open and offers a roster spot for him. After all coaches have their players they feel most comfortable with. Its obvious McD has his players he feels most comfortable with and its obviously not Hillis.

rastaman
01-07-2010, 09:44 AM
Anyone else think Josina wants to kill McDaniels as much as Law wants to kill Marshall? Someone should start a poll.

Marshall may want to give Dwarf Law an ass kicking as well. Ass kickings can go either way.

Hell Marshall may want to give McDaniel's a "Blanket Party" as well. Who's to say Scheffler, Cutler and perhaps Hillis wouldn't mind showing up for a Blanket Party for Josh McDaniel's.

For the right price.....Law might show up for the Blanket party as well since he's no better than a mercenary anyway.

Popps
01-07-2010, 09:44 AM
Someone shoot me a wake-up call when Hillis has NFL relevance again.

rastaman
01-07-2010, 09:46 AM
:spit:

Well at least we know Hillis has no trade value.....RIGHT! Then again how much would McPimp try and rip off another NFL team who maybe interested in Hillis's talent?

rastaman
01-07-2010, 09:47 AM
Someone shoot me a wake-up call when Hillis has NFL relevance again.

We will wake you if McD proves he can win in November and December! Fair enough?

BigPlayShay
01-07-2010, 09:48 AM
Marshall may want to give Dwarf Law an ass kicking as well. Ass kickings can go either way.

Hell Marshall may want to give McDaniel's a "Blanket Party" as well. Who's to say Scheffler, Cutler and perhaps Hillis wouldn't mind showing up for a Blanket Party for Josh McDaniel's.

For the right price.....Law might show up for the Blanket party as well since he's no better than a mercenary anyway.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/3/37/Ctfo.jpg/200px-Ctfo.jpg

Beantown Bronco
01-07-2010, 09:51 AM
Should McD release of cuts Hillis, I sure hope Shanny is keeping his eyes open and offers a roster spot for him.

Of course you hope that, because if Shanny doesn't bother picking him up, that essentially puts the final nail in the coffin of the entire debate. It would certainly be VERY telling IMO if he shows no interest in him.

rastaman
01-07-2010, 09:51 AM
Try to at least stay CLOSE to on-point. Please don't quote me unless you're responding to something I wrote.

Here's what you wrote:

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco
Sure, dude, that one fumble did you in.....how about the 3 short yardage plays out of 4 that they called your number during the opening drive in Oakland, only to have you false start and get stuffed twice in a row.

It's not like that one fumble did you in....sorry.

rastaman
01-07-2010, 09:53 AM
Of course you hope that, because if Shanny doesn't bother picking him up, that essentially puts the final nail in the coffin of the entire debate. It would certainly be VERY telling IMO if he shows no interest in him.

Well every player needs a system that suits his talents and a HC that believes in the player and their talent. We know McD did neither. Lets see if Shanny is willing to give that lowly mentally challenged 7th round pick another shot.;D

rastaman
01-07-2010, 09:54 AM
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/3/37/Ctfo.jpg/200px-Ctfo.jpg

Why? Let the killings and blanket party begin! Hilarious!

dbfan21
01-07-2010, 10:01 AM
Who wouldn't tap that? :wiggle:

I heard T-Hank has 2 illegitimate kids with her! :angel:

broncocalijohn
01-07-2010, 10:09 AM
I can't see him here in Denver next season. He doesn't get on the field as a RB or FB and isn't good enough for special teams.

Maybe Shanahan picks him up in Washington!! lol

If Shanahan picks him up then all the naysayers of Hillis that he was the 6th option and not worth more than that will be proven wrong. Mike does have 5 guys in front of Hillis that he can choose with Selvin, Tatum, etc. I cannot see Hillis being here. McD likes his guys and no reason to keep him on if he is going to be a 3rd or 4th stringer. Josh will draft someone in the 4th or 5th round to take that spot. I wish he could stay and show some production at tailback, but unless there is an injury, he wont be getting the touches. If he is gone, the proof is in the pudding of how many teams would want to bring him in for a look.

chex
01-07-2010, 10:15 AM
If Shanahan picks him up then all the naysayers of Hillis that he was the 6th option and not worth more than that will be proven wrong. Mike does have 5 guys in front of Hillis that he can choose with Selvin, Tatum, etc. I cannot see Hillis being here. McD likes his guys and no reason to keep him on if he is going to be a 3rd or 4th stringer. Josh will draft someone in the 4th or 5th round to take that spot. I wish he could stay and show some production at tailback, but unless there is an injury, he wont be getting the touches. If he is gone, the proof is in the pudding of how many teams would want to bring him in for a look.

I'm sure he'll draw some interest, but that still doesn't mean anything. Training camps are loaded with other teams' castoffs. Does he stick and become the featured back people on here think he is, or is he just filling out the roster as depth, if at all? Honestly, I don't think that question get answered until this time next year.

Dagmar
01-07-2010, 10:16 AM
Marshall may want to give Dwarf Law an ass kicking as well. Ass kickings can go either way.

Hell Marshall may want to give McDaniel's a "Blanket Party" as well. Who's to say Scheffler, Cutler and perhaps Hillis wouldn't mind showing up for a Blanket Party for Josh McDaniel's.

For the right price.....Law might show up for the Blanket party as well since he's no better than a mercenary anyway.

So you have stooped to actually wishing physical harm on Josh McDaniels now. Classy.

rastaman
01-07-2010, 10:32 AM
So you have stooped to actually wishing physical harm on Josh McDaniels now. Classy.

So you've stooped to wishing physical harm to Brandon Marshall...boy how classy of you!

Gort
01-07-2010, 10:33 AM
Someone shoot me a wake-up call when Hillis has NFL relevance again.

KC will claim him and he'll run roughshod over the Broncos D twice a year for the next dozen years! :wiggle:

rastaman
01-07-2010, 10:33 AM
I'm sure he'll draw some interest, but that still doesn't mean anything. Training camps are loaded with other teams' castoffs. Does he stick and become the featured back people on here think he is, or is he just filling out the roster as depth, if at all? Honestly, I don't think that question get answered until this time next year.

If I were Peyton Hillis, here's what I would do. Pick up the phone tomorrow, and call Mike Shanahan.

"Coach, you probably know about how my season went in Denver this past year. I just want to say I want to thank you for the opportunity you gave me in 2008 and I think I showed you that I can be a solid contributor in your offense. I'd like to ask if there's any chance I can part of your program again next season in Washington, because clearly, there is no future for me here in Denver."

If Shanahan says "Sorry Peyton, I don't think there's any room for you here", well what does he have to lose by at least trying? I don't think Shanahan will say that. At the salary he's making, he'd be a bargain. Trade a 4th or 5th rounder for him, and everyone is happy. If Hillis stays in Denver for another year, there's a good chance his career will be over. If the WAS thing doesn't work out, he and his agent need to get the word out and he should ask for his release immediately. I have no doubt he'll do better anywhere but in Denver.

Beantown Bronco
01-07-2010, 10:41 AM
If Shanahan says "Sorry Peyton, I don't think there's any room for you here", well what does he have to lose by at least trying?

Plenty. Such a phone call would clearly meet the league's definition of tampering and would result in sanctions.

Dagmar
01-07-2010, 10:42 AM
So you've stooped to wishing physical harm to Brandon Marshall...boy how classy of you!

When did I do that?

ColoradoDarin
01-07-2010, 11:04 AM
Poor questions, good job of non-answering by Hillis.

Josina: So you sh&t the bed against Cleveland and didn't get much playing time after that?

Hillis: But I only sh&t it ONCE (ok maybe 4 times).

bpc
01-07-2010, 11:13 AM
So I'm wondering, why all the hate for Peyton Hillis by certain parties on this thread? Despite what some around this forum think of the fans opinion, what has he done to piss anybody off? He hasn't bitched, he hasn't moaned. He was just answering questions. Seriously, I don't understand it.

Popps?

Just another situation of you hating anything associated with Shanny?

Dagmar
01-07-2010, 11:21 AM
So I'm wondering, why all the hate for Peyton Hillis by certain parties on this thread? Despite what some around this forum think of the fans opinion, what has he done to piss anybody off? He hasn't b****ed, he hasn't moaned. He was just answering questions. Seriously, I don't understand it.

Popps?

Just another situation of you hating anything associated with Shanny?

Backlash I imagine.

People getting annoyed that he is famed as a savior for our team at RB, while using that as an excuse to bash Moreno and the Head Coach.

Not saying that is justified.

Hillis was excellent when filling in last year.

azbroncfan
01-07-2010, 11:25 AM
Peyton find us a 7th round pick for you and your gone.

Florida_Bronco
01-07-2010, 11:26 AM
So I'm wondering, why all the hate for Peyton Hillis by certain parties on this thread? Despite what some around this forum think of the fans opinion, what has he done to piss anybody off? He hasn't b****ed, he hasn't moaned. He was just answering questions. Seriously, I don't understand it.

Popps?

Just another situation of you hating anything associated with Shanny?

Hate for Hillis? No, just like with Shanahan, we aren't big fans of mediocrity around these parts and Hillis absolutely sucked this year.

bpc
01-07-2010, 11:28 AM
I'm okay with the fact that McD hates him. Whatever. Different flavor for many different headcoaches. I think the problem most have is that our short yardage ability sucked, and he seemed great in that category. 17 carries over a season does not equate a fair opportunity.

That's neither here or there. If McD doesn't want to use him for whatever reason, that's fine. McD's only got two more years in Denver so he better start figuring out the combinations better if he wants to keep his job.

As for Hillis, trade him, release him, whatever. I don't see the point of keeping a guy if you don't intend on using him. Make a move and go on to the next player.

Popps
01-07-2010, 11:29 AM
So I'm wondering, why all the hate for Peyton Hillis by certain parties on this thread? Despite what some around this forum think of the fans opinion, what has he done to piss anybody off? He hasn't b****ed, he hasn't moaned. He was just answering questions. Seriously, I don't understand it.

Popps?

Just another situation of you hating anything associated with Shanny?

Chris, I know your attention-whore routine is getting stale, so you're trying to ramp it up for the new year.

However, what some people around here might not remember is that you absolutely bashed Shanahan relentlessly for "not using Ashley Lelie" right.

That's right, folks. Chris was man-crush crazy about Ashley Lelie, and said the only reason he wasn't having success is that our coach had no idea how to use him. Like Cutler, Chris assured us that Ashley would go onto big things.


So, let's not re-write history. I defended Shanahan from the likes of you and the Griese lovers around here for years. You spent way more time railing that guy than I ever did. I was arguably the biggest Shanahan apologist on this board for many years.

As for our 7th round draft pick/4th string RB... there's no "hate" involved. In fact, I thought he'd split time as a starter at the beginning of the season.

McDaniels has shown a clear pattern of giving playing time to Shanahan guys who have earned it.

No one hates Peyton. He's just not a guy who's capable of earning playing time. He couldn't earn it with Shanahan and he couldn't earn it with McDaniels. (And ****ed up when he did.) So, not so shocking that the report out of college was that he would have these kinds of troubles.


Quit re-writing history, Chris. Your insincere Shanahan act is a joke. You bashed the guy as much as anyone, and far more than I ever did. I've been a huge supporter of Shanny since I watched him coach as an assistant in Denver, and first-hand as an assistant in San Francisco.

Popps
01-07-2010, 11:30 AM
I'm okay with the fact that McD hates him. Whatever. r.

How did you go from such a quality poster to a 12 year old girl?

Honestly?

Florida_Bronco
01-07-2010, 11:30 AM
Chris, I know your attention-whore routine is getting stale, so you're trying to ramp it up for the new year.

However, what some people around here might not remember is that you absolutely bashed Shanahan relentlessly for "not using Ashley Lelie" right.

That's right, folks. Chris was man-crush crazy about Ashley Lelie, and said the only reason he wasn't having success is that our coach had no idea how to use him. Like Cutler, Chris assured us that Ashley would go onto big things.


So, let's not re-write history. I defended Shanahan from the likes of you and the Griese lovers around here for years. You spent way more time railing that guy than I ever did. I was arguably the biggest Shanahan apologist on this board for many years.

As for our 7th round draft pick/4th string RB... there's no "hate" involved. In fact, I thought he'd split time as a starter at the beginning of the season.

McDaniels has shown a clear pattern of giving playing time to Shanahan guys who have earned it.

No one hates Peyton. He's just not a guy who's capable of earning playing time. He couldn't earn it with Shanahan and he couldn't earn it with McDaniels. (And ****ed up when he did.) So, not so shocking that the report out of college was that he would have these kinds of troubles.


Quit re-writing history, Chris. Your insincere Shanahan act is a joke. You bashed the guy as much as anyone, and far more than I ever did. I've been a huge supporter of Shanny since I watched him coach as an assistant in Denver, and first-hand as an assistant in San Francisco.

Wow. Owned.

bpc
01-07-2010, 11:38 AM
Chris, I know your attention-whore routine is getting stale, so you're trying to ramp it up for the new year.

However, what some people around here might not remember is that you absolutely bashed Shanahan relentlessly for "not using Ashley Lelie" right.

That's right, folks. Chris was man-crush crazy about Ashley Lelie, and said the only reason he wasn't having success is that our coach had no idea how to use him. Like Cutler, Chris assured us that Ashley would go onto big things.


So, let's not re-write history. I defended Shanahan from the likes of you and the Griese lovers around here for years. You spent way more time railing that guy than I ever did. I was arguably the biggest Shanahan apologist on this board for many years.

As for our 7th round draft pick/4th string RB... there's no "hate" involved. In fact, I thought he'd split time as a starter at the beginning of the season.

McDaniels has shown a clear pattern of giving playing time to Shanahan guys who have earned it.

No one hates Peyton. He's just not a guy who's capable of earning playing time. He couldn't earn it with Shanahan and he couldn't earn it with McDaniels. (And ****ed up when he did.) So, not so shocking that the report out of college was that he would have these kinds of troubles.


Quit re-writing history, Chris. Your insincere Shanahan act is a joke. You bashed the guy as much as anyone, and far more than I ever did. I've been a huge supporter of Shanny since I watched him coach as an assistant in Denver, and first-hand as an assistant in San Francisco.

Well the fact is, you don't remember history correctly.

I never bashed Shanahan for not using Lelie correctly. I bashed Shanahan for not making a move to land a QB who could throw an accurate ball farther than 15 yds. Since Lelie's ypc was something around 22 at the time, I think this was a fair assessment.

I've always been a supporter of Mike Shanahan. I thought Jake Plummer had a limited arm and sucked in the big game. Why have a speed receiver who can get 5-7 yds of separation 20 yds down the field on a DB when your QB can't throw anything but wounded ducks in the air? Often, Ashley had to stop running... wait four seconds and make a circus grab over the defender he cleanly beat.

It didn't make sense and I knew at the time, we would NEVER win a championship or have a great offense with Plummer. SO, as you can see, I was stoked to see that we got a QB with a laser rocket arm, unfortunately it came after we had landed Javon Walker and Ashley wanted out.

Besides that, Ashley and I played high school and college football together, so yes, I did want to see us highlight his strengths (stretching the field) instead of his weaknesses.

No apologies from that.

What you see on my front is somebody who is calling things like I see it, as I think it should be so we can win.

You Popps... you on the other hand have no direction of which way is up or down, and all you care about is furthering your agenda of protecting your sacred cows. Throw all the Shanahan people under the bus you can, and then spin out when it doesn't suit you anymore. You're like the pancake man. When an excuse doesn't fit, you just flip!

bpc
01-07-2010, 11:41 AM
Wow. Owned.

ha ha. Just give you some pom poms. What are you, his bitch now?

You all want to go check the archives of posts on this board? Feel free to go right ahead.

I'm more than confident in my words which were written and they'll verify my criticism was with Plummer as our QB.

Florida_Bronco
01-07-2010, 11:42 AM
all you care about is furthering your agenda of protecting your sacred cows.

I think this is the only sacred cow Popps is concerned about protecting.

http://xpirate.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/bronco_logo.jpg

Popps
01-07-2010, 11:43 AM
You're just a bitter guy, Chris. Learn to move into the future with the rest of the world.

You spent way more time bashing Shanahan than I did. That's what makes your little act even more comical.

But, you keep proffering lies and bull**** to protect a 4th string RB, Chris. That makes a ton of sense. Great place to put your energies.

Popps
01-07-2010, 11:44 AM
ha ha. Just give you some pom poms. What are you, his b**** now?

You all want to go check the archives of posts on this board? Feel free to go right ahead.

I'm more than confident in my words which were written and they'll verify my criticism was with Plummer as our QB.

Oh yea, you bashed Shanahan relentlessly about Plummer, too.

Yea, you were a HUGE Shanahan fan.

::)

oubronco
01-07-2010, 11:47 AM
Chris, I know your attention-whore routine is getting stale, so you're trying to ramp it up for the new year.

However, what some people around here might not remember is that you absolutely bashed Shanahan relentlessly for "not using Ashley Lelie" right.

That's right, folks. Chris was man-crush crazy about Ashley Lelie, and said the only reason he wasn't having success is that our coach had no idea how to use him. Like Cutler, Chris assured us that Ashley would go onto big things.


So, let's not re-write history. I defended Shanahan from the likes of you and the Griese lovers around here for years. You spent way more time railing that guy than I ever did. I was arguably the biggest Shanahan apologist on this board for many years.

As for our 7th round draft pick/4th string RB... there's no "hate" involved. In fact, I thought he'd split time as a starter at the beginning of the season.

McDaniels has shown a clear pattern of giving playing time to Shanahan guys who have earned it.

No one hates Peyton. He's just not a guy who's capable of earning playing time. He couldn't earn it with Shanahan and he couldn't earn it with McDaniels. (And ****ed up when he did.) So, not so shocking that the report out of college was that he would have these kinds of troubles.


Quit re-writing history, Chris. Your insincere Shanahan act is a joke. You bashed the guy as much as anyone, and far more than I ever did. I've been a huge supporter of Shanny since I watched him coach as an assistant in Denver, and first-hand as an assistant in San Francisco.

see this is where I have a problem with this situation Hillis ****ed up his chances (all 13 I assume) with his 1 fumble but with Moreno he ****s up all the time and gets glorified......What gives

bpc
01-07-2010, 11:50 AM
I think this is the only sacred cow Popps is concerned about protecting.

http://xpirate.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/bronco_logo.jpg

Popps has been polarized by consistent arguing on this site. He doesn't even know what his fan-hood stands for anymore.

I myself, love the Broncos. I want McD to succeed. He gets three years. He's used one and I wasn't impressed with what he did on offense. He's attached his wagon to Kyle Orton so he's gonna have to ride it now. Neither is without criticism when they suck, which was generally all year. The best move McD/Broncos made was hiring Nolen. That provided us the platform for the 8-8 year.

Both have a lot of work to do, to get better moving to year 2. That remains to be seen and i'm taking a wait and see approach. I reserve the right to complain about any part of this team which sucks, and offer my opinion on what they should do to get better... like all fans on this board.

I respect Mike Shanahan, I feel he'll be a hall of fame head coach and the greatest Bronco head coach for the forseeable future. Damn right, unless he's playing Denver, i'll be more than happy to root for the guy and I hope he has tremendous success in Washington. Super Bowl success. If that is what makes me a bad fan, well **** off. I don't give a **** about what anybody thinks.

I'm less tied to Jay Cutler but I think he's a talented guy. I have no doubt that he's going to bounce back in his career. He's definitely better than Kyle Orton in every phase of the game. Time will tell, but Cutler is going to smash all his statistics. In fact it won't even be fair to compare in a few years because Orton will be on the bench somewhere and Jay will still be compiling statistics. Those that adamantly defend Kyle the starter, are going to be eating **** in a few years. Mark it down. Save this post if you want. If i'm wrong, throw it in my face for years to come. It won't happen and thats why i'm not concerned about posting it.

Go Broncos!

Florida_Bronco
01-07-2010, 11:50 AM
see this is where I have a problem with this situation Hillis ****ed up his chances (all 13 I assume) with his 1 fumble but with Moreno he ****s up all the time and gets glorified......What gives

Fumbles happen, especially for running backs. Hillis had a pretty pedestrian preseason and cost this team timeouts because he didn't know where to line up. For someone like McD, who preaches mistake free football, that **** isn't going to stand. Hence why Hillis was promptly escorted to the bench.

Beantown Bronco
01-07-2010, 11:52 AM
see this is where I have a problem with this situation Hillis ****ed up his chances (all 13 I assume) with his 1 fumble but with Moreno he ****s up all the time and gets glorified......What gives

Hillis messed up a lot more than just the one fumble. I thought we already made that clear. Apparently not.

bpc
01-07-2010, 11:53 AM
It's just time to move on from Hillis. Obviously, McD has no inspiration to play him. That's fine. Unfortunately he killed all his value he had rolling over from 08' so if you guys want him off the roster, most-likely he'll have to be cut. Just the way it is when you self-sabotage value.

oubronco
01-07-2010, 11:53 AM
well it wasn't like he had alot of opportunities and so McD was happy Moreno missed blocks and missed running lanes?

Beantown Bronco
01-07-2010, 11:55 AM
You make the most of the opportunities you have. No excuses.

oubronco
01-07-2010, 11:55 AM
Hillis messed up a lot more than just the one fumble. I thought we already made that clear. Apparently not.

I know but it's not like Moreno didn't have ****ups too so why dog Hillis and praise Moreno they both made mistakes

Florida_Bronco
01-07-2010, 11:57 AM
Popps has been polarized by consistent arguing on this site. He doesn't even know what his fan-hood stands for anymore.

I myself, love the Broncos. I want McD to succeed. He gets three years. He's used one and I wasn't impressed with what he did on offense. He's attached his wagon to Kyle Orton so he's gonna have to ride it now. Neither is without criticism when they suck, which was generally all year. The best move McD/Broncos made was hiring Nolen. That provided us the platform for the 8-8 year.

Both have a lot of work to do, to get better moving to year 2. That remains to be seen and i'm taking a wait and see approach. I reserve the right to complain about any part of this team which sucks, and offer my opinion on what they should do to get better... like all fans on this board.

I respect Mike Shanahan, I feel he'll be a hall of fame head coach and the greatest Bronco head coach for the forseeable future. Damn right, unless he's playing Denver, i'll be more than happy to root for the guy and I hope he has tremendous success in Washington. Super Bowl success. If that is what makes me a bad fan, well **** off. I don't give a **** about what anybody thinks.

I'm less tied to Jay Cutler but I think he's a talented guy. I have no doubt that he's going to bounce back in his career. He's definitely better than Kyle Orton in every phase of the game. Time will tell, but Cutler is going to smash all his statistics. In fact it won't even be fair to compare in a few years because Orton will be on the bench somewhere and Jay will still be compiling statistics. Those that adamantly defend Kyle the starter, are going to be eating **** in a few years. Mark it down. Save this post if you want. If i'm wrong, throw it in my face for years to come. It won't happen and thats why i'm not concerned about posting it.

Go Broncos!

Glad to see you finally declare your allegiance. Does this mean you'll stop cheering when the former coach supposedly sticks it to our owner?

bpc
01-07-2010, 11:58 AM
Oh yea, you bashed Shanahan relentlessly about Plummer, too.

Yea, you were a HUGE Shanahan fan.

::)

My feelings towards Shanny and McD border on the same right now in some respects. I never approved of Jake Plummer after he showed he couldn't keep pace with Peyton Manning. Yet we kept him, and kept trying to win with him. That was pointless. We would have never beat anybody significant in the playoffs with Plummer and we never did. I said that from the first time i saw him in big games. He had a fragile mind and buckled when the pressure was on... which was always in the playoffs. Put him down by 14 and the veil of secrecy was gone from our offensive attack. We would have to pass to catch up and that's when the defense pinned their ears back and forced Plummer into stupid situations that his feeble talent couldn't get him out of.

Does this sound familiar? Sounds like a lot of things i'm saying about Kyle Orton right now.

The true sign of a fan is when you can admit the teams weaknesses. Only then can you get better. We needed a better QB than Jake Plummer if we wanted to win a super bowl or even a division championship.

Fast forward to today.

We need a better QB than KYLE ORTON if we want to win a super bowl or even a division championship.

Popps
01-07-2010, 11:59 AM
Popps has been polarized by consistent arguing on this site. He doesn't even know what his fan-hood stands for anymore.

I myself, love the Broncos.

Hilarious!

My love for this team goes back almost before you were born, Chris. You spend day and night bashing this club, and then turn around and expect anyone to believe that you're a fan?

My fanhood "stand" for winning.

Not winning ONLY if it's with certain players like Ashley Lelie.


It's cool that you like Shanahan now, though. Too bad you spent so many years trashing him for various things.


Just quit making a fool of yourself, Chris. Get back to being a respectable poster and leave the attention whore routine to some turd like Lex.

bpc
01-07-2010, 11:59 AM
Glad to see you finally declare your allegiance. Does this mean you'll stop cheering when the former coach supposedly sticks it to our owner?

I wear my allegiance on my sleeve, every day and I don't deflect, spin, or go the round about way to protect my agenda.

That's you, popps and a few others MO.

That's okay. You keep holding tight to that preminition that Kyle Orton is going to lift this team on his back like Hercules and lead us to a championship. We'll revisit the discussion in a few years when he's sitting the bench.

Popps
01-07-2010, 12:00 PM
Glad to see you finally declare your allegiance. Does this mean you'll stop cheering when the former coach supposedly sticks it to our owner?

:rofl:

No, but he's a really great fan.




Really.

Taco John
01-07-2010, 12:04 PM
I think McDaniels didn't use Hillis because success would have locked him into the guy, and he doesn't want to be locked into Hillis for whatever reason. But the idea that Hillis didn't deserve a chance to prove he could help us win games is a non-starter for me. He more than deserved a chance to prove that. Certainly more than Lamont Jordan.

Whatever the reason is, it's a bad one as far as I'm concerned.

bpc
01-07-2010, 12:04 PM
Hilarious!

My love for this team goes back almost before you were born, Chris. You spend day and night bashing this club, and then turn around and expect anyone to believe that you're a fan?

My fanhood "stand" for winning.

Not winning ONLY if it's with certain players like Ashley Lelie.


It's cool that you like Shanahan now, though. Too bad you spent so many years trashing him for various things.


Just quit making a fool of yourself, Chris. Get back to being a respectable poster and leave the attention whore routine to some turd like Lex.


Hey, through discussion, you have to keep your mind open and your team accountable. I never once said that I didn't criticize Shanahan at points. There are many things I criticized him for. The total body of work is larger than a few irish pennants. Shanahan did a great job and i've said that many times. I didn't agree with keeping Griese, or Plummer on as long as we did but Shanahan put forth the best, winning franchise we could have with those guys on the roster and I respect him tremendously for that. His hands were tied because franchise QB's don't grow on trees and we never lost so he never had the opportunities most other franchises like the Colts and Steelers did to find a great QB.

You see, guess what, you don't have to be blind as **** to follow your team. You can have expectations (you use the word, trashing...) and still be a great fan. Sorry you forgot that. Now you won't boarder on anything close to criticism of McD. One need only check back after losses as you were trying to sell your garbage spin to fellow mane posters while you flung another post Shanny player under the bus.

Florida_Bronco
01-07-2010, 12:09 PM
I think McDaniels didn't use Hillis because success would have locked him into the guy, and he doesn't want to be locked into Hillis for whatever reason. But the idea that Hillis didn't deserve a chance to prove he could help us win games is a non-starter for me. Your tin foil hat is a little too tight there, TJ.


He more than deserved a chance to prove that. What has he done to deserve it? Having a couple good games after Shanahan ran out of options last year?

No one "deserves" anything in the NFL. You earn it or you don't, and Peyton didn't.

Certainly more than Lamont Jordan. Jordan has enjoyed a pretty decent career in the NFL and is a 1,000 yard rusher. What has Hillis done again?

oubronco
01-07-2010, 12:12 PM
Your tin foil hat is a little too tight there, TJ.


What has he done to deserve it? Having a couple good games after Shanahan ran out of options last year?

No one "deserves" anything in the NFL. You earn it or you don't, and Peyton didn't.

Jordan has enjoyed a pretty decent career in the NFL and is a 1,000 yard rusher. What has Hillis done again?

Dude you might have some good points but Jordan flatout sucks

Florida_Bronco
01-07-2010, 12:16 PM
Dude you might have some good points but Jordan flatout sucks

When did Jordan suck? He came in and did exactly what his role dictated.

Popps
01-07-2010, 12:16 PM
As I said, Chris. Anyone with eyes knew it was time for Mike Shanahan to move on. No one "threw him under the bus."

You just need to grow up a bit and learn how the world works, dude. You sound a little immature.

Plenty of adult fans are capable of appreciating what Shanahan did, but recognizing that organizations and businesses sometimes make personnel changes and that is often times best for both parties.

I love how the basis of your defense for being a troll is... "a real fan can question a team's moves."

Yet, you're the one saying that anyone who thought it was time for Shanahan to move isn't a real fan.

You're just not sure what you mean, are you?

chex
01-07-2010, 12:24 PM
I think McDaniels didn't use Hillis because success would have locked him into the guy, and he doesn't want to be locked into Hillis for whatever reason. But the idea that Hillis didn't deserve a chance to prove he could help us win games is a non-starter for me. He more than deserved a chance to prove that. Certainly more than Lamont Jordan.

Whatever the reason is, it's a bad one as far as I'm concerned.

Just think TJ, if 6 RB's didn't go on IR last year, Shanahan wouldn't have given him his "chance to prove he could help us win games".

It's funny how you glorify Shanahan for his running game prowess, yet never question his reasons for making Hillis his absolute last choice to carry the ball. But of course, since Josh McDaniels is not Mike Shanahan, you'll make the baseless accusations and ask the tough questions now. Maybe Shanahan didn't use Hills sooner because he didn't want to be locked into him too. I'll bet it sounds more ridiculous to you when the names are changed.

Crushaholic
01-07-2010, 12:25 PM
Dude you might have some good points but Jordan flatout sucks

Jordan had a very good career with the Raiders. I'm not sure where you got the idea that he sucks...

broncocalijohn
01-07-2010, 12:27 PM
I'm sure he'll draw some interest, but that still doesn't mean anything. Training camps are loaded with other teams' castoffs. Does he stick and become the featured back people on here think he is, or is he just filling out the roster as depth, if at all? Honestly, I don't think that question get answered until this time next year.

I dont think teams are bringing him in to start. I think if they need a big guy that can catch, run and block, then he might be someone's guy. He will be cheap and probably worth the money.

WolfpackGuy
01-07-2010, 12:29 PM
That one fumble was on a kick return.

And why in the hell was he returning kicks anyway?

Popps
01-07-2010, 12:29 PM
Just think TJ, if 6 RB's didn't go on IR last year, Shanahan wouldn't have given him his "chance to prove he could help us win games".

It's funny how you glorify Shanahan for his running game prowess, yet never question his reasons for making Hillis his absolute last choice to carry the ball. But of course, since Josh McDaniels is not Mike Shanahan, you'll make the baseless accusations and ask the tough questions now. Maybe Shanahan didn't use Hills sooner because he didn't want to be locked into him too. I'll bet it sounds more ridiculous to you when the names are changed.

Lock it up.

Taco John
01-07-2010, 12:29 PM
Your tin foil hat is a little too tight there, TJ.

Tin foil hat?

Whatever. Believing that an NFL coach would do something prideful is hardly "tin foil hat" material. I'd have to say that you should stop being so naive.


No one "deserves" anything in the NFL. You earn it or you don't, and Peyton didn't.

Peyton absolutely earned an opportunity to prove himself. The guy proved that he can carry a team when called into action. He's a five tool talent. He earned an opportunity, but was shut out.

bpc
01-07-2010, 12:30 PM
As I said, Chris. Anyone with eyes knew it was time for Mike Shanahan to move on. No one "threw him under the bus."

You just need to grow up a bit and learn how the world works, dude. You sound a little immature.

Plenty of adult fans are capable of appreciating what Shanahan did, but recognizing that organizations and businesses sometimes make personnel changes and that is often times best for both parties.

I love how the basis of your defense for being a troll is... "a real fan can question a team's moves."

Yet, you're the one saying that anyone who thought it was time for Shanahan to move isn't a real fan.

You're just not sure what you mean, are you?

There is nothing about me being a troll. You're just a little sensitive to the agenda your protecting which is why you throw suttle digs at Shanahan, his former players, and deflect or spin all criticism which comes McD's way.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/nothing%20to%20see" target="_blank"><img src="http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/blurr1974/nothing_to_see_here.jpg" border="0" alt="Nothing to See Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

Popps
01-07-2010, 12:31 PM
That one fumble was on a kick return.

And why in the hell was he returning kicks anyway?

He did it in college. I believe he did it for us last year, as well.

He looked terrible in that role, however.

Taco John
01-07-2010, 12:31 PM
Just think TJ, if 6 RB's didn't go on IR last year, Shanahan wouldn't have given him his "chance to prove he could help us win games".

It's funny how you glorify Shanahan for his running game prowess, yet never question his reasons for making Hillis his absolute last choice to carry the ball. But of course, since Josh McDaniels is not Mike Shanahan, you'll make the baseless accusations and ask the tough questions now. Maybe Shanahan didn't use Hills sooner because he didn't want to be locked into him too. I'll bet it sounds more ridiculous to you when the names are changed.


None of that matters once Hillis got in there and started carrying the team to wins. That is, if winning is what is important here.

Taco John
01-07-2010, 12:32 PM
Jordan had a very good career with the Raiders. I'm not sure where you got the idea that he sucks...


Lamont Jordan had one good season with the Raiders... And for that matter, it was really his only good season of his 9 year career.

Popps
01-07-2010, 12:35 PM
There is nothing about me being a troll. You're just a little sensitive to the agenda your protecting which is why you throw suttle digs at Shanahan, his former players, and deflect or spin all criticism which comes McD's way.

Chris, again.. I've been the Shanahan defender over the years.

You're the basher. Let's not confuse roles, here.

As for his former players... let's talk about that...

Bailey - Probably my favorite Bronco
Clady - Duh
Royal - Love the guy's ability. Hope he catches on with the offense.
Marshall - Don't like the person, like his production.
DJ - Like the person, not wild about his play.
Woodyard - Nice backup
Larsen - Nice STs guy, back-up
Hillis - Big fan of his physical skills. Wish he could earn playing time.
Doomervil - Love the guy. Didn't love him as an every-down 4-3 DE, but love his new role.


So, I'm not sure where you're getting your fantasy that I have an issue with Shanahan players.

This notion that our coach has an issue with them is the peak of idiocy.

McDaniels has proven that he'll put the best guy on the field, regardless of where they came from. He's benched his own high draft picks, and even deactivated them.

It's just nonsense from bitter fans who were on the wrong side of a team move.

Time to put on big boy pants and move into the future, Chris.

Taco John
01-07-2010, 12:36 PM
Chris, again.. I've been the Shanahan defender over the years.




LOL ROFL! Hilarious!

bpc
01-07-2010, 12:37 PM
Lamont Jordan had one good season with the Raiders... And for that matter, it was really his only good season of his 9 year career.

And the fact is, he's IN his 9th year. Basically his career is finished.

Hillis was in his 2nd year and had showed potential to the point where McD heaped praise on him this offseason. Naturally I think you would want to help your young players catch on and get them experience so they can get better.

Maybe not in this situation though. Better go with the old trusty vet, like we did with Ty Law, cutting J. Williams.

DeuceOfClub
01-07-2010, 12:38 PM
Josina: "OMG, something huge just happened, details later"

chex
01-07-2010, 12:39 PM
None of that matters once Hillis got in there and started carrying the team to wins. That is, if winning is what is important here.

Why doesn't it matter? You can't question one and not the other.

Why didn't Shanahan start Hillis sooner? Why were guys like Selvin Young, Michael Pittman, Andre Hall, and Ryan Torain all given opportunities before Hillis? Are any of those guys even still in the league?

But yeah, let's jump on McDaniels for burying Hillis when Shanahan did the same exact thing last year, and went unscathed.

bpc
01-07-2010, 12:39 PM
LOL ROFL! Hilarious!

Serious, he posts a list of multiple guys he's thrashed this year game after game this year.

I think he's finally lost it.

Taco John
01-07-2010, 12:39 PM
There is absolutely no good competitive reason that I can think of why a 9 year veteran who has virtually no future or value to the team should have been given carries over a second year beast who has proven that he can be a four down threat, and at the very least could be used as trade bait. I can't find a single competitive reason to rationalize this.

But if you add pride to the picture, suddenly things start to make sense.

Taco John
01-07-2010, 12:40 PM
But yeah, let's jump on McDaniels for burying Hillis when Shanahan did the same exact thing last year, and went unscathed.

He didn't go unscathed. Popps absolutely ROASTED Shanahan last season for this very thing.

Of course, the direction of the wind changed since then, and Popps is now telling us he was the "Shanahan Defender." So there's that...

Lolad
01-07-2010, 12:42 PM
Peyton find us a 7th round pick for you and your gone.

you think he's only worth a 7th?

Popps
01-07-2010, 12:45 PM
LOL ROFL! Hilarious!

I know, it's pretty funny to hear people who bashed Shanahan for not using Griese and Ashley Lelie correctly... and winning with Plummer now suddenly purport to be great fans of his.

Funny how people remember things, huh?

oubronco
01-07-2010, 12:46 PM
When did Jordan suck? He came in and did exactly what his role dictated.

He sucks

chex
01-07-2010, 12:48 PM
He didn't go unscathed. Popps absolutely ROASTED Shanahan last season for this very thing.

Of course, the direction of the wind changed since then, and Popps is now telling us he was the "Shanahan Defender." So there's that...

Good for Popps then.

I don't recall you making an issue of it however. Why is that? Do you really believe that Josh McDaniels has such a personal vendetta against Hillis that he would jeopardize his own future, and sacrifice the team's success, by keeping him on the bench instead of helping us win games, if he were so inclined to believe he could? And how does that explain Shanahan doing the same exact thing last year?

You are the moderator of a popular Broncos messageboard, so if you're going to make an accusation that McDaniels for some reason didn't want Hillis to go in and succeed, you should really have something to back it up. And again, offer an explanation as to why he's the second head coach in Denver to do so.

Taco John
01-07-2010, 12:55 PM
Because until Hillis got an opportunity to show it in a game, all he was was a 250 lb. seventh round full back. Once he got into the games, he proved to be an absolute beast - a bona fide game breaker. Do you record the games? I dare anyone to go back and watch the games and then come onto this forum with a straight face and tell us that Hillis didn't deserve a chance to do that for us again this year while we were losing 8 of 10 games.

Do it. I challenge anyone to do it. Watch those games fresh again and see the impact the guy had on the whole team - and the pace of the game. He was a BEAST!

You guys want to turn this into an issue of "hating McDaniels" and I think that's a ridiculous dismissal of the work Hillis has already put in for this organization. Go ahead - watch the tapes and then come back here and try to tell me that my interest is in anything but winning. That guy flat out brought it for this team. He more than earned the opportunity to prove himself on a team that was fading to 2-10.

broncolife
01-07-2010, 12:58 PM
So I'm wondering, why all the hate for Peyton Hillis by certain parties on this thread? Despite what some around this forum think of the fans opinion, what has he done to piss anybody off? He hasn't b****ed, he hasn't moaned. He was just answering questions. Seriously, I don't understand it.

Popps?

Just another situation of you hating anything associated with Shanny?

Its funny. Its seems like the same people who love Orton hate Hillis.And the same people who like Hillis hate Orton.

rastaman
01-07-2010, 12:59 PM
Why doesn't it matter? You can't question one and not the other.

Why didn't Shanahan start Hillis sooner? Why were guys like Selvin Young, Michael Pittman, Andre Hall, and Ryan Torain all given opportunities before Hillis? Are any of those guys even still in the league?

The question that should be asked had Shanny not been fired, and Selvin Young, Michael Pittman, Andre Hall, and Ryan Torain and Hillis all returned this year, who would Shanny be more inclined to give a shot of starting or getting more playing time. All bets are with Hillis. Nor would Shanny had experiment w/ putting Hillis on ST.

But yeah, let's jump on McDaniels for burying Hillis when Shanahan did the same exact thing last year, and went unscathed.

Shanny may have buried Hillis down the depth chart at the beginning of the season, however, after Shanny saw how Hillis performed last year before his season ending hamstring injury.....there's no doubt Hillis would have taken carries away from the older running backs at the start of this season or Shanny could have outright started Hillis this year. Its all based upon Hillis's performance last year before his injury.

oubronco
01-07-2010, 01:01 PM
Because until Hillis got an opportunity to show it in a game, all he was was a 250 lb. seventh round full back. Once he got into the games, he proved to be an absolute beast - a bona fide game breaker. Do you record the games? I dare anyone to go back and watch the games and then come onto this forum with a straight face and tell us that Hillis didn't deserve a chance to do that for us again this year while we were losing 8 of 10 games.

Do it. I challenge anyone to do it. Watch those games fresh again and see the impact the guy had on the whole team - and the pace of the game. He was a BEAST!

You guys want to turn this into an issue of "hating McDaniels" and I think that's a ridiculous dismissal of the work Hillis has already put in for this organization. Go ahead - watch the tapes and then come back here and try to tell me that my interest is in anything but winning. That guy flat out brought it for this team. He more than earned the opportunity to prove himself on a team that was fading to 2-10.

+1 rep

vancejohnson82
01-07-2010, 01:01 PM
Because until Hillis got an opportunity to show it in a game, all he was was a 250 lb. seventh round full back. Once he got into the games, he proved to be an absolute beast - a bona fide game breaker. Do you record the games? I dare anyone to go back and watch the games and then come onto this forum with a straight face and tell us that Hillis didn't deserve a chance to do that for us again this year while we were losing 8 of 10 games.

Do it. I challenge anyone to do it. Watch those games fresh again and see the impact the guy had on the whole team - and the pace of the game. He was a BEAST!

You guys want to turn this into an issue of "hating McDaniels" and I think that's a ridiculous dismissal of the work Hillis has already put in for this organization. Go ahead - watch the tapes and then come back here and try to tell me that my interest is in anything but winning. That guy flat out brought it for this team. He more than earned the opportunity to prove himself on a team that was fading to 2-10.

agreed....I was at the Jets game and even those fans were jocking Hillis.......however, that was 2008 and in 2009 he wasnt a factor for whatever reason

are we going to belabor this HIllis thing all offseason???

Lolad
01-07-2010, 01:02 PM
Good for Popps then.

I don't recall you making an issue of it however. Why is that? Do you really believe that Josh McDaniels has such a personal vendetta against Hillis that he would jeopardize his own future, and sacrifice the team's success, by keeping him on the bench instead of helping us win games, if he were so inclined to believe he could? And how does that explain Shanahan doing the same exact thing last year?

You are the moderator of a popular Broncos messageboard, so if you're going to make an accusation that McDaniels for some reason didn't want Hillis to go in and succeed, you should really have something to back it up. And again, offer an explanation as to why he's the second head coach in Denver to do so.

Shanahan always liked a back that averaged over 5 yards a carry. He said it in his exit press conference for the season. The position was his to lose if Mike came back to coach.

oubronco
01-07-2010, 01:03 PM
agreed....I was at the Jets game and even those fans were jocking Hillis.......however, that was 2008 and in 2009 he wasnt a factor for whatever reason

are we going to belabor this HIllis thing all offseason???

probably not cause McD will probably trade him for another long snapper

Taco John
01-07-2010, 01:06 PM
agreed....I was at the Jets game and even those fans were jocking Hillis.......however, that was 2008 and in 2009 he wasnt a factor for whatever reason

are we going to belabor this HIllis thing all offseason???



I know that I am. I think the guy has superstar potential. Maybe I'm wrong. But we all saw what he is capable of. I'd very like to see McDaniels put this situation to rest once and for all. Why wouldn't a 2-10 team have the use for a game breaker like Hillis? I just would like a straight answer to that question.

Don't you think that question merits an answer?

watermock
01-07-2010, 01:06 PM
All I know is how Josh-sinda kept tring to bait Hillis and he handled it like a pro.

I know, it sounds retarded huh... huh...

vancejohnson82
01-07-2010, 01:06 PM
probably not cause McD will probably trade him for another long snapper

for the record, we never "traded" for a long snapper

we cut ours and signed Paxton and I think he was instrumental in our 6-0 start

PRBronco
01-07-2010, 01:10 PM
Its funny. Its seems like the same people who love Orton hate Hillis.And the same people who like Hillis hate Orton.

Dont' worry, I like both. Am I the only one left who enjoys loving the Broncos, and doesn't strap on an explosive vest any time the front office doesn't do exactly what I want? I'm not blind. Mike Leach/Lonnie Paxton-gate still doesn't sit well with me. And I shat a brick when we traded a first for a second rounder, and when we drafted Richard Quinn. But I have faith in the team, and warmed up to the selections eventually, like I do with most everything the team does, because what's the point in carrying seething hatred around? That's just not healthy.

vancejohnson82
01-07-2010, 01:10 PM
I know that I am. I think the guy has superstar potential. Maybe I'm wrong. But I know what he's capable of. I'd very like to see McDaniels put this situation to rest once and for all. Why wouldn't a 2-10 team have the use for a game breaker like Hillis? I just would like a straight answer to that question.

Don't you think that question merits an answer?

I'm probably one of the biggest McDaniels fans/apologists on this board....but I really dont know why Hillis didnt get a better shot to show what he could do...it made sense up until the wheels started to fall off, in my opinion.

I think he will be on the roster come next year and he will be used more. I don't think McDaniels really had a place for him in the playbook this year....he's not big on throwing the ball to the backs out of the backfield and i think that is one of Hillis' main strengths.

but my real answer is that I have no clue but we werent at practices every day or in meetings....there has to be something going on and we will never know

Taco John
01-07-2010, 01:11 PM
What's going to happen with this guy? We're just going to let him go this offseason?

Isn't this a legitimate question?

Taco John
01-07-2010, 01:16 PM
I'm probably one of the biggest McDaniels fans/apologists on this board....but I really dont know why Hillis didnt get a better shot to show what he could do...it made sense up until the wheels started to fall off, in my opinion.

I think he will be on the roster come next year and he will be used more. I don't think McDaniels really had a place for him in the playbook this year....he's not big on throwing the ball to the backs out of the backfield and i think that is one of Hillis' main strengths.

but my real answer is that I have no clue but we werent at practices every day or in meetings....there has to be something going on and we will never know



I'm perceived as a McDaniels basher because of my Bowlen tantrum. But I really want to see the guy succeed. His story is an inspirational story for me - a guy my age as a head coach of a team, and a shot at winning it all. That's a powerful story, and example. I think it's great.

But more than a good McDaniels story, I just want to see the Broncos win. Based on the evidence of Peyton that we've all seen, it's reasonable to conclude that using Peyton Hillis gives the Broncos better odds to do that. If he doesn't, I'd like to hear why not. I mean, if Josh can air the dirty laundry of Brandon Marshall to the media, where's the harm in airing it for Hillis?

bpc
01-07-2010, 01:20 PM
Its funny. Its seems like the same people who love Orton hate Hillis.And the same people who like Hillis hate Orton.

I actually don't hate Orton. I think he's an average starter/great backup QB.

Then again, i don't think he'll ever win a playoff game or super bowl, or win us a division championship. He also isn't a difference maker. So I think we should be drafting our QB of the future this offseason. Maybe we will, maybe we won't. If we don't, I think it's a terrible failure by McDaniels.

I dont' mind if we start the season with Orton next year as long as we have somebody more capable behind him, learning the game. To plan around him long term like he's going to win us the super bowl would be foolish.

skpac1001
01-07-2010, 01:24 PM
agreed....I was at the Jets game and even those fans were jocking Hillis.......however, that was 2008 and in 2009 he wasnt a factor for whatever reason

are we going to belabor this HIllis thing all offseason???

I know I am. On offense, Hillis is just the posterchild of an overall theme. Last year cast off Wiegman outperforms expectations and earns a new contract. This year he is garbage and will probably be gone. Last year Royal overperforms expectations and may even be more valuable then Marshall. This year he can't get open or contribute. Last year the offensive line outperforms expectations and gels into one of the best in the league. This year its why we suck. Finally, last year we get consistently amazing rushing performances out of a 7th round FB who was the third best RB on his college team. This year he can't even beat out a LB for his FB position. Is it really the players failing to get everything out of their performance because they don't fit the scheme? Or the coaches fault the scheme doesn't fit the players, or he can't get the best out of them?

Lolad
01-07-2010, 01:24 PM
for the record, we never "traded" for a long snapper

we cut ours and signed Paxton and I think he was instrumental in our 6-0 start

come on with the BS... Our long snapper was instrumental in our wins?

So I guess we can fault him for our 2-8 record the rest of the way?

vancejohnson82
01-07-2010, 01:24 PM
I'm perceived as a McDaniels basher because of my Bowlen tantrum. But I really want to see the guy succeed. His story is an inspirational story for me - a guy my age as a head coach of a team, and a shot at winning it all. That's a powerful story, and example. I think it's great.

But more than a good McDaniels story, I just want to see the Broncos win. Based on the evidence of Peyton that we've all seen, it's reasonable to conclude that using Peyton Hillis gives the Broncos better odds to do that. If he doesn't, I'd like to hear why not. I mean, if Josh can air the dirty laundry of Brandon Marshall to the media, where's the harm in airing it for Hillis?

here is what I think....McDaniels came into camp and really didnt know much about the guy and I don't even think McD thought he would make the roster....once he brought in Buckhalter I think he had made up his mind that Hillis was going to be phased out. He imagined a power running game from Moreno mixed with a speed/edge running game with Buck. We saw glimpses of it from time to time but it never really worked out as we all saw. He took the stance that it was our line's play that attributed to the dismal running game and it wasnt the back's fault. Hence no changes to the RB rotation. He started to work him into the team by letting him return kicks and putting him in there at times at the FB positiion (which was horrible).

I think he will be worked in next year because Buckhalter is going to break down. It's just a feeling I have. How can he cut Hillis when we have guys like Jordan and Buckhalter in the rotation who are injury prone to say the least.

I think they will kiss and make up

vancejohnson82
01-07-2010, 01:25 PM
come on with the BS... Our long snapper was instrumental in our wins?

So I guess we can fault him for our 2-8 record the rest of the way?

please re-read my post with extreme sarcasm

Archer81
01-07-2010, 01:26 PM
I know I am. On offense, Hillis is just the posterchild of an overall theme. Last year cast off Wiegman outperforms expectations and earns a new contract. This year he is garbage and will probably be gone. Last year Royal overperforms expectations and may even be more valuable then Marshall. This year he can't get open or contribute. Last year the offensive line outperforms expectations and gels into one of the best in the league. This year its why we suck. Finally, last year we get consistently amazing rushing performances out of a 7th round FB who was the third best RB on his college team. This year he can't even beat out a LB for his FB position. Is it really the players failing to get everything out of their performance because they don't fit the scheme? Or the coaches fault the scheme doesn't fit the players, or he can't get the best out of them?


Actually Hillis was beaten out for FB by Larsen last season.

:Broncos:

Florida_Bronco
01-07-2010, 01:26 PM
Tin foil hat?

Whatever. Believing that an NFL coach would do something prideful is hardly "tin foil hat" material. I'd have to say that you should stop being so naive. Is there any evidence to suggest that is why Hillis sat on the bench?

Absolutely none.

Peyton absolutely earned an opportunity to prove himself. The guy proved that he can carry a team when called into action. He's a five tool talent. He earned an opportunity, but was shut out. He earned a chance to go into camp and fight for a job. He did, and so we moved onto preseason. He had a pretty pedestrian performance there.

Still, McD gave him chances during the season and Hillis was one screw up after another, thus earning him a spot on the bench.

See how that works?

Lolad
01-07-2010, 01:26 PM
I know I am. On offense, Hillis is just the posterchild of an overall theme. Last year cast off Wiegman outperforms expectations and earns a new contract. This year he is garbage and will probably be gone. Last year Royal overperforms expectations and may even be more valuable then Marshall. This year he can't get open or contribute. Last year the offensive line outperforms expectations and gels into one of the best in the league. This year its why we suck. Finally, last year we get consistently amazing rushing performances out of a 7th round FB who was the third best RB on his college team. This year he can't even beat out a LB for his FB position. Is it really the players failing to get everything out of their performance because they don't fit the scheme? Or the coaches fault the scheme doesn't fit the players, or he can't get the best out of them?

I don't understand why people continue to believe Royal wasn't getting open. We just had a QB and a scheme that didn't benefit him in anyway which McDaniels pointed out he needed to do better on next season

Taco John
01-07-2010, 01:29 PM
I know I am. On offense, Hillis is just the posterchild of an overall theme. Last year cast off Wiegman outperforms expectations and earns a new contract. This year he is garbage and will probably be gone. Last year Royal overperforms expectations and may even be more valuable then Marshall. This year he can't get open or contribute. Last year the offensive line outperforms expectations and gels into one of the best in the league. This year its why we suck. Finally, last year we get consistently amazing rushing performances out of a 7th round FB who was the third best RB on his college team. This year he can't even beat out a LB for his FB position. Is it really the players failing to get everything out of their performance because they don't fit the scheme? Or the coaches fault the scheme doesn't fit the players, or he can't get the best out of them?


You said it perfectly. This was beautiful. It perfectly encapsulates my concerns about the direction of the team, and whether or not we're taking a step forwards or backwards right now.

skpac1001
01-07-2010, 01:30 PM
I don't understand why people continue to believe Royal wasn't getting open. We just had a QB and a scheme that didn't benefit him in anyway which McDaniels pointed out he needed to do better on next season

I think that is pretty much the point of my post, minus the QB part.

Taco John
01-07-2010, 01:32 PM
Is there any evidence to suggest that is why Hillis sat on the bench?

Absolutely there is. Look at what Hillis did the last drive of the KC game, and then look at how many carries he got after showing that. Everybody on the field knew that Hillis was going to get the ball, and nobody could stop him.

Florida_Bronco
01-07-2010, 01:36 PM
Absolutely there is. Look at what Hillis did the last drive of the KC game, and then look at how many carries he got after showing that. Everybody on the field knew that Hillis was going to get the ball, and nobody could stop him.

He was also playing against the Chief's scrubs.

What else ya got?

kamakazi_kal
01-07-2010, 01:37 PM
Its funny. Its seems like the same people who love Orton hate Hillis.And the same people who like Hillis hate Orton.

I don't think Hillis is so special but I would have liked to see him get more of a chance considering how terrible moreno was at short yardage. I thought Cbuck was the better runner of him and moreno this year.

I honestly also don't hate Orton, again I just don't see anything special in the guy .... I guess I come off as a hater because I don't gush all over him. I simply think the guy is nothing but average and will not be winning us a superbowl. From what I gather that makes me "not a fan"

ColoradoDarin
01-07-2010, 01:37 PM
Absolutely there is. Look at what Hillis did the last drive of the KC game, and then look at how many carries he got after showing that. Everybody on the field knew that Hillis was going to get the ball, and nobody could stop him.

Because he got some good carries in garbage time in a blowout?

Yikes.

Hillis deserves a spot of this team, but Buckhalter (especially) and Moreno (somewhat) showed more this year.

Pony Boy
01-07-2010, 01:41 PM
What's going to happen with this guy? We're just going to let him go this offseason?

Isn't this a legitimate question?

I'm to the point that I want to see him released or traded, he will never get an opportunity to play here. I've been in McDaniel’s corner but his handling of Hillis and his love for Orton has me teetering on the edge. I think Shanahan will gut the roster in DC and I could see some type of a package deal for Hillis and a player or pick.

kamakazi_kal
01-07-2010, 01:43 PM
I know I am. On offense, Hillis is just the posterchild of an overall theme. Last year cast off Wiegman outperforms expectations and earns a new contract. This year he is garbage and will probably be gone. Last year Royal overperforms expectations and may even be more valuable then Marshall. This year he can't get open or contribute. Last year the offensive line outperforms expectations and gels into one of the best in the league. This year its why we suck. Finally, last year we get consistently amazing rushing performances out of a 7th round FB who was the third best RB on his college team. This year he can't even beat out a LB for his FB position. Is it really the players failing to get everything out of their performance because they don't fit the scheme? Or the coaches fault the scheme doesn't fit the players, or he can't get the best out of them?

this. square pegs round holes .... gots ta change it up a little .... for sure after everyone figured out how to stop the bubble left, slant in, up the middle for no gain ...... "game plan"

Meck77
01-07-2010, 01:44 PM
If hillis is this badass that some claim...Then why wasn't he a badass in training camp? Why wasn't he a badass on the field? Why did he only average 22 yards a return yet Royal averaged 24? Where are we supposed to put a guy that doesn't beat everyone else out at his position?

All this internet opinion is just that. Thank god your opinions don't mean jack or we would have been 4-12 like many of thought. Just relax internet coaches. We'll be in the playoff next season. I really don't think there is some conspiracy to keep "whitey down".

Taco John
01-07-2010, 01:46 PM
He was also playing against the Chief's scrubs.

What else ya got?

All the other stuff I've already said. You can pretend like Hillis hasn't made a solid case for himself, but I think the evidence points towards him being a productive, game-breaking type of back.

Rabb
01-07-2010, 01:46 PM
If hillis is this badass that some claim...Then why wasn't he a badass in training camp? Why wasn't he a badass on the field? Why did he only average 22 yards a return yet Royal averaged 24? Where are we supposed to put a guy that doesn't beat everyone else out at his position?

around here, punter

Meck77
01-07-2010, 01:49 PM
around here, punter

Hilarious!

He didn't even stand out on special teams. Running straight into piles at full speed is hardly the sign of a "game breaker". I readily admit he isn't your proto type returner but to say McD didn't give him some looks is complete BS.

Bottom line is any average back/wr can get you 20 yards on a return. That is what hillis did. Average. He was even more average on his carries.

skpac1001
01-07-2010, 02:00 PM
If hillis is this badass that some claim...Then why wasn't he a badass in training camp? Why wasn't he a badass on the field? Why did he only average 22 yards a return yet Royal averaged 24? Where are we supposed to put a guy that doesn't beat everyone else out at his position?

All this internet opinion is just that. Thank god your opinions don't mean jack or we would have been 4-12 like many of thought. Just relax internet coaches. We'll be in the playoff next season. I really don't think there is some conspiracy to keep "whitey down".

Shouldn't this be relative to the competition? With the badass Moreno? I was sold in the offseason in the amazing powers of situational based football, do you think that Moreno was a better fit for each and every situation he was used over Hillis in?

broncocalijohn
01-07-2010, 02:01 PM
i think most just want him to get a decent chance at playing tailback on short yardage. If you dont hand him the rock, let him block or go out on a delayed post. He can break arms for yardage. Yet, he never, ever got the chance. That is fact. He did it last year so why couldnt he this year? This is all I cared about. Nothing to do with special teams. This is about being in the backfield and watching 3rd and 4th and short plays fail. When McDaniels gave him a chance, it was as a FB and TG he got within inches of the first down so we can go for it on 4th.

Requiem
01-07-2010, 02:04 PM
Peyton Hillis was not a "beast" for us. He made common plays that I would expect NFL caliber players to do. We've had runners from Olandis Gary to Mike Anderson, and even Tatum T-Mobile Bell consistently making plays for the Broncos under a Mike Shanahan offense. They all rushed for 1,000 yards. They all had decent YPC. Some of them could catch the ball from time to time. They weren't "good" NFL players, and it showed as they dwindled and faded away elsewhere.

It took until a running back corp was ravaged by injuries for him to even see the field. He did well, but he wasn't over impressive. He didn't win us games over the end stretch and didn't provide memories that will last a life time. What is so special about him?

Hillis has been overshadowed his whole career by superior players on his collegiate and professional team(s). The NFL is about proving yourself. What he did was not proof enough to a lot of fans, and especially a new offensive staff who obviously aren't infatuated with his abilities. He, like many who came here, had a clean slate and had to prove himself.

Spencer Larsen was a Shanahan carry-over, yet consistently drew praise from McDaniels and earned his job. Do you really, really believe that it was just something that was given to him? The McDaniels Conspiracy BS regarding Hillis, Scheffler and others really needs to stop. You earn your time to play in the NFL, and Hillis couldn't see special teams the right way and you expect him to contribute offensively on a regular basis because he busted a few runs when he was "hand-given" the job because of a riddled roster?

Child please. The Hillis weinerhead gushin' needs to stop.

yavoon
01-07-2010, 02:15 PM
hillis, scheffler and royal have all disappeared under mcdaniels. it almost looks as if his offense can only accomodate one rb and one wr in its schemes(note how gaffney blew up when he became #1).

skpac1001
01-07-2010, 02:30 PM
It looks alot like what you would expect a 33 year old coach who only coached one offensive system, and only for a couple years so he has the same basic personnel the whole time. To me his offense is the opposite of his defense. The defense is flexible and will adapt itself to the personnel to maximize thier strengths and hide thier weaknesses. On offense, the prototype for players is rigid and the players have to adapt themselves to try to maximize thier similarity to Patriot players and minimize anything outside of the box. There is not going to be much stretching of the scheme to adapt to unique players.

Hamrob
01-07-2010, 02:36 PM
Peyton Hillis was not a "beast" for us. He made common plays that I would expect NFL caliber players to do. We've had runners from Olandis Gary to Mike Anderson, and even Tatum T-Mobile Bell consistently making plays for the Broncos under a Mike Shanahan offense. They all rushed for 1,000 yards. They all had decent YPC. Some of them could catch the ball from time to time. They weren't "good" NFL players, and it showed as they dwindled and faded away elsewhere.

It took until a running back corp was ravaged by injuries for him to even see the field. He did well, but he wasn't over impressive. He didn't win us games over the end stretch and didn't provide memories that will last a life time. What is so special about him?

Hillis has been overshadowed his whole career by superior players on his collegiate and professional team(s). The NFL is about proving yourself. What he did was not proof enough to a lot of fans, and especially a new offensive staff who obviously aren't infatuated with his abilities. He, like many who came here, had a clean slate and had to prove himself.

Spencer Larsen was a Shanahan carry-over, yet consistently drew praise from McDaniels and earned his job. Do you really, really believe that it was just something that was given to him? The McDaniels Conspiracy BS regarding Hillis, Scheffler and others really needs to stop. You earn your time to play in the NFL, and Hillis couldn't see special teams the right way and you expect him to contribute offensively on a regular basis because he busted a few runs when he was "hand-given" the job because of a riddled roster?
Child please. The Hillis weinerhead gushin' needs to stop.Man, you just painted the picture for Mike Shanahan's Hall of Fame Speach! He did more with less than anyone in Professional Sports...right?

Rohirrim
01-07-2010, 02:40 PM
Never in the anals of history have so many panties been twisted so tightly over the fate of a 7th round pick.

PRBronco
01-07-2010, 02:42 PM
Never in an anals of history have so many panties been twisted so tightly over the fate of a 7th round pick.

:giggle:

skpac1001
01-07-2010, 02:47 PM
Never in an anals of history have so many panties been twisted so tightly over the fate of a 7th round pick.

I wish Hillis was the only 2008 Bronco offensive player this scheme/coach has caused a regression with instead of just the worst example.

Taco John
01-07-2010, 02:48 PM
Never in the anals of history have so many panties been twisted so tightly over the fate of a 7th round pick.

Rod Smith was an undrafted free agent. Karl Mecklenberg was a 13th round pick. Terrell Davis was a 6th round pick. The Broncos history is littered with late round picks who managed to carve out solid careers.

Rohirrim
01-07-2010, 02:53 PM
Quit blaming it on McD. Like Hillis himself said, he rarely, if ever, even talks to the coach. I know all these conspiracies are much more entertaining but here's how I envision it:
Josh goes to Bobby Turner and Dennison. He says give me a list of our best backs who are ready for this game. He takes the list and looks at it. Hillis' name is down near the bottom. He calls the game accordingly. On Monday, Kizla, Paige and all the tin foil hat fan brigade are calling for McD's head because he isn't playing the obvious savior (Note: These are the same people who thought Simms would lead us to the promised land). Josh shakes his head and says, "WTF?"

Requiem
01-07-2010, 02:53 PM
Man, you just painted the picture for Mike Shanahan's Hall of Fame Speach! He did more with less than anyone in Professional Sports...right?

Mike sure knew how to get the most out of his runners!

skpac1001
01-07-2010, 03:17 PM
Quit blaming it on McD. Like Hillis himself said, he rarely, if ever, even talks to the coach. I know all these conspiracies are much more entertaining but here's how I envision it:
Josh goes to Bobby Turner and Dennison. He says give me a list of our best backs who are ready for this game. He takes the list and looks at it. Hillis' name is down near the bottom. He calls the game accordingly. On Monday, Kizla, Paige and all the tin foil hat fan brigade are calling for McD's head because he isn't playing the obvious savior (Note: These are the same people who thought Simms would lead us to the promised land). Josh shakes his head and says, "WTF?"

Fine. Its not McDaniels. Hillis was only productive last year because he had huge holes made by the offensive line and a great passing game featuring consistent big plays by Royal and Scheffler. In order for this to work for me now, tell me why the offensive line, Royal, and Scheffler were only productive last year.

Taco John
01-07-2010, 03:22 PM
Fine. Its not McDaniels. Hillis was only productive last year because he had huge holes made by the offensive line and a great passing game featuring consistent big plays by Royal and Scheffler. In order for this to work for me now, tell me why the offensive line, Royal, and Scheffler were only productive last year.


It's pretty tough to rationalize unless you just simply refuse to. Then it's no thing.

OCBronco
01-07-2010, 03:29 PM
One of the worst interviews I've read in awhile. Nothing but leading questions and innuendo. Why Anderson gets paid to do this stuff is beyond me. You could probably hire someone from the local college newspaper to do better work.

Broncoman13
01-07-2010, 03:33 PM
for the record, we never "traded" for a long snapper

we cut ours and signed Paxton and I think he was instrumental in our 6-0 start

Not as much as Seth Olsen though. Seth Olsen did such a great job of carrying helmets that the team couldn't help but start off 6-0.

Please tell me you were kidding.

Broncoman13
01-07-2010, 03:40 PM
One of the worst interviews I've read in awhile. Nothing but leading questions and innuendo. Why Anderson gets paid to do this stuff is beyond me. You could probably hire someone from the local college newspaper to do better work.

I thought she asked a lot of questions that inquiring minds wanted to know. They were tough questions for Hillis and I imagine he felt uncomfortable answering some of them. They were very pointed and showed her obvious distaste for Josh McDaniels. She doesn't care for him very much, that much is for sure and I think she gets her opinion from certain players on the team, most likely Shanahan holdovers.

Say what you like about the arguments regarding McD vs Shanny players, the fact of the matter is we are going to be "stuck" with a lot of them. There just won't be a lot of players to upgrade with this season with the CBA nearing an end. There may be a few guys out there that have worn out there welcome (Like Tony Scheffler, but even he may be tendered in hopes of gaining some draft compensation), but they will be far and few between or has beens or never were's. So McD is going to have to either find a way to deal with both sides or go through another year of a divided locker room. For the record, I understand McD's perspective. It makes sense for a coach to want his kind of players. But you also have to play the hand your dealt some times and that means taking advantage of your personnel's strengths. Marching directly into the line on 3rd and short over and over and over with the same negative result is not addressing the problem, nor is it using your team's strengths. After the Colts game I thought, "Okay he has obviously identified a weakness with the OL and he will address that in free agency and the draft, time try something new for the time being." Instead, he continued to do the same thing over and over as though he knew of nothing else he could do or try. Not very innovative, IMO.

Popps
01-07-2010, 03:47 PM
I thought she asked a lot of questions that inquiring minds wanted to know. They were tough questions for Hillis and I imagine he felt uncomfortable answering some of them. They were very pointed and showed her obvious distaste for Josh McDaniels. She doesn't care for him very much.

She sounds like a total idiot. Someone could be very intelligent and not care for McDaniels, but just as an observation... she sounds barely literate.

Agree that the questions were probably tough for Hillis to answer. He sounded a little whiney, but not too bad. He did the best job he could to not burn his bridges.

The thing I would have asked Hillis if I were Josina woud be....

How were so many other Shanahan players able to get onto the field on a regular basis while you're couldn't Peyton?

Even guys like Eddie Royal, who weren't particularly productive right away were shown a true commitment from McDaniels as a starter and a regular option in our offense?

Got an answer for that one, Peyton?

Taco John
01-07-2010, 03:48 PM
I thought she asked a lot of questions that inquiring minds wanted to know.

I thought so too. But I understand the criticism that she's taking for this. It's part of the gig when you touch on sensitive issues. Always has been and always will be.

Taco John
01-07-2010, 03:49 PM
How were so many other Shanahan players able to get onto the field on a regular basis while you're couldn't Peyton?

Even guys like Eddie Royal, who weren't particularly productive right away were shown a true commitment from McDaniels as a starter and a regular option in our offense?

Got an answer for that one, Peyton?


Why would you lie to the guy as part of your "question?"

rastaman
01-07-2010, 03:53 PM
Because he got some good carries in garbage time in a blowout?

Yikes.

Hillis deserves a spot of this team, but Buckhalter (especially) and Moreno (somewhat) showed more this year.

CBuck can't stay healthy! So he can't be depended upon. Moreno is probably a more effective RB within a ZBS with a lead blocking FB.

Speaking of Garbage time why didn't McD put Hilllis into the game during the 4 game losing streak when the team and Moreno were all playing like GARBAGE!

Your garbage argument doesn't pass the SMELL TEST! :clown:

rastaman
01-07-2010, 04:00 PM
She sounds like a total idiot. Someone could be very intelligent and not care for McDaniels, but just as an observation... she sounds barely literate.

Agree that the questions were probably tough for Hillis to answer. He sounded a little whiney, but not too bad. He did the best job he could to not burn his bridges.

The thing I would have asked Hillis if I were Josina woud be....

How were so many other Shanahan players able to get onto the field on a regular basis while you're couldn't Peyton?

Even guys like Eddie Royal, who weren't particularly productive right away were shown a true commitment from McDaniels as a starter and a regular option in our offense?

Got an answer for that one, Peyton?

Say what ya will Pops....but it looks like McD is going to provide another season of drama and finger pointing away from himself as he attempts to remake the Broncos in his image. A risky move but hey....thats the choice McD has made and he'll have to live with it.

rastaman
01-07-2010, 04:05 PM
Poor questions, good job of non-answering by Hillis.

Josina: So you sh&t the bed against Cleveland and didn't get much playing time after that?

Hillis: But I only sh&t it ONCE (ok maybe 4 times).

And you point! One fumble shouldn't land you in the doghouse. Moreno had 4 fumbles over the course of the season....why wasn't he benched and shoved into McD's gulag after his 2nd fumble.

Seems as though Warden McFavoritism.....just has his pets.:rofl:

Requiem
01-07-2010, 04:07 PM
Gulag, haha.

OBF1
01-07-2010, 04:12 PM
I did not see where Peyton said play me or ship me out. Kind of misleading thread title.... But this is the mane so it is not a suprise.

Taco John
01-07-2010, 04:18 PM
I did not see where Peyton said play me or ship me out. Kind of misleading thread title.... But this is the mane so it is not a suprise.

I agree with this. I thought he handled himself very professionally.

Requiem
01-07-2010, 04:22 PM
As he should?

Popps
01-07-2010, 04:24 PM
Say what ya will Pops....but it looks like McD is going to provide another season of drama and finger pointing bla bla bla bla bla...

So, you don't have an answer, either?

Gotcha.

Josina asked the wrong question.


Again, very simple...

"Peyton, I noticed a number of Shanahan-acquired players played significant roles this year. Even reserve players like Woodyard and Larsen seemed to land in very good graces with Coach McDaniels.

Why do you think these other players got those chances and you didn't, Peyton?"



Real simple. Just ask Peyton that simple question. Because, those are the facts... and instead of passively implying that he only wants Shanahan guys, you go further to prove your point by giving evidence to support it.

Since we have evidence that McDaniels took favorably to many Shanahan players, the real question becomes...

why wasn't he one of them?


But, Josina didn't ask him that. She doesn't sound like she puts a lot of thought into anything, though.

Popps
01-07-2010, 04:25 PM
As he should?

I think people are just saying that he tried to show restraint, which is good because he's a 7th round draft pick and a 4th string RB. He's got 300-something career rushing yards. He himself said he doesn't have any leverage to be flapping his gums about this stuff.

The time to earn leverage would have been in training camp.

Plenty of other Shanahan guys did.

For some reason, he couldn't.

Lolad
01-07-2010, 04:27 PM
Peyton Hillis was not a "beast" for us. He made common plays that I would expect NFL caliber players to do. We've had runners from Olandis Gary to Mike Anderson, and even Tatum T-Mobile Bell consistently making plays for the Broncos under a Mike Shanahan offense. They all rushed for 1,000 yards. They all had decent YPC. Some of them could catch the ball from time to time. They weren't "good" NFL players, and it showed as they dwindled and faded away elsewhere.

It took until a running back corp was ravaged by injuries for him to even see the field. He did well, but he wasn't over impressive. He didn't win us games over the end stretch and didn't provide memories that will last a life time. What is so special about him?

Hillis has been overshadowed his whole career by superior players on his collegiate and professional team(s). The NFL is about proving yourself. What he did was not proof enough to a lot of fans, and especially a new offensive staff who obviously aren't infatuated with his abilities. He, like many who came here, had a clean slate and had to prove himself.

Spencer Larsen was a Shanahan carry-over, yet consistently drew praise from McDaniels and earned his job. Do you really, really believe that it was just something that was given to him? The McDaniels Conspiracy BS regarding Hillis, Scheffler and others really needs to stop. You earn your time to play in the NFL, and Hillis couldn't see special teams the right way and you expect him to contribute offensively on a regular basis because he busted a few runs when he was "hand-given" the job because of a riddled roster?

Child please. The Hillis weinerhead gushin' needs to stop.

I'm sorry I was at the Jets game and Hillis ran all over them he was a big reason why we beat the jets. Falcons game he caught a key 3rd down pass tip toed the sideline to stay in bounds. Browns made a 1st down when hit in the backfield unlike Moreno! Miami game Peyton with over 100 yards receiving if Cutler didn't throw early picks we would have won that game.

Rohirrim
01-07-2010, 04:28 PM
Fine. Its not McDaniels. Hillis was only productive last year because he had huge holes made by the offensive line and a great passing game featuring consistent big plays by Royal and Scheffler. In order for this to work for me now, tell me why the offensive line, Royal, and Scheffler were only productive last year.

Did Hillis take this team to the playoffs last year? Did the number two offense win the last three games and take us through the playoffs last year? My guess is that McD looked at the history of the team and said to himself - this team hasn't won its division in ten years, so we have to go in a new direction. When it comes down to the end of the season, you want lines that can impose their will. Technique alone has its limits. The teams that move on are the teams with the lines that can dominate. The truth is, this team cannot drive for a single yard when it must have it. They get blown off the line by big D linemen. We're going in a different direction. Takes time. And patience.

What happened at the Orange Bowl was a perfect example. The big line of Iowa dominated. Many people thought the Yellow Jackets' spread offense would run right past Iowa. When your line dominates, you usually win.

BTW, to me, "productive" means "playoffs."

Popps
01-07-2010, 04:30 PM
Why would you lie to the guy as part of your "question?"

Eddie remained a starter for the entire time he was healthy. They tried to keep him involved in the offense and even looked like they were forcing the issue, at times. For whatever reason, he wasn't as productive in this system.

But, he wasn't benched, traded or replaced with a "McDaniels guy."

He also remained a KR/PR through the season, when healthy.

So... again, McDaniels spoke highly of Royal and kept him involved as a starter.

Very simple. Why did all of these other Shanahan guys have no problem earning time, and you did, Peyton?

Simple question.

There must be a reason.


Let's hear it.

Requiem
01-07-2010, 04:30 PM
I'm sorry I was at the Jets game and Hillis ran all over them he was a big reason why we beat the jets. Falcons game he caught a key 3rd down pass tip toed the sideline to stay in bounds. Browns made a 1st down when hit in the backfield unlike Moreno! Miami game Peyton with over 100 yards receiving if Cutler didn't throw early picks we would have won that game.

. . . and then he tore his groin, failed to earn a quality spot on our roster and gets to keep the seats warm for the big boy starters. Sounds awesome! :thumbsup:

Popps
01-07-2010, 04:31 PM
Did Hillis take this team to the playoffs last year? Did the number two offense win the last three games and take us through the playoffs last year? My guess is that McD looked at the history of the team and said to himself - this team hasn't won its division in ten years, so we have to go in a new direction. When it comes down to the end of the season, you want lines that can impose their will. Technique alone has its limits. The teams that move on are the teams with the lines that can dominate. The truth is, this team cannot drive for a single yard when it must have it. They get blown off the line by big D linemen. We're going in a different direction. Takes time. And patience.

What happened at the Orange Bowl was a perfect example. The big line of Iowa dominated. Many people thought the Yellow Jackets' spread offense would run right past Iowa. When your line dominates, you usually win.


Not surprisingly, a dead-solid take on the situation.

Requiem
01-07-2010, 04:32 PM
Let's hear it.

Mormons are better blockers. Larsen's mission trips during his time at Arizona make him better suited for contact. He has Christ on his side.

Archer81
01-07-2010, 04:32 PM
why wasn't he benched and shoved into McD's gulag after his 2nd fumble.


You do know Gulags were death camps for political prisoners, right? If you did, then you would know comparing a player not playing because of his own actions to enemies of a dictatorial state sent to these places to die is not a valid comparison.

However, I realize there is a possibility you have no clue what a gulag is, and therefore thought you were witty to use a word you have a half assed understanding of.

****tard.

:Broncos:

Bronco Yoda
01-07-2010, 04:44 PM
Fumbles happen, especially for running backs. Hillis had a pretty pedestrian preseason and cost this team timeouts because he didn't know where to line up. For someone like McD, who preaches mistake free football, that **** isn't going to stand. Hence why Hillis was promptly escorted to the bench.

And Moreno didn't? What games were you watching? Moreno missed blockes, ran into linemen, dropped balls, fumbled, tripped over his own feet and in the end didn't break a single run to change a game. He hardly had a steller year. I sure hope he improves or we will need to back to the draft for a RB.

skpac1001
01-07-2010, 04:46 PM
Did Hillis take this team to the playoffs last year? Did the number two offense win the last three games and take us through the playoffs last year? My guess is that McD looked at the history of the team and said to himself - this team hasn't won its division in ten years, so we have to go in a new direction. When it comes down to the end of the season, you want lines that can impose their will. Technique alone has its limits. The teams that move on are the teams with the lines that can dominate. The truth is, this team cannot drive for a single yard when it must have it. They get blown off the line by big D linemen. We're going in a different direction. Takes time. And patience.

What happened at the Orange Bowl was a perfect example. The big line of Iowa dominated. Many people thought the Yellow Jackets' spread offense would run right past Iowa. When your line dominates, you usually win.

BTW, to me, "productive" means "playoffs."

By your definition (playoffs) McDaniels hasn't led a productive offense in 2 consecutive years now, coincidentally the only two years Tom Brady wasn't his QB. I can handle going in a different direction, even if it takes time, but the direction better stop being backwards soon.

Hogan11
01-07-2010, 04:47 PM
You do know Gulags were death camps for political prisoners, right? If you did, then you would know comparing a player not playing because of his own actions to enemies of a dictatorial state sent to these places to die is not a valid comparison.

However, I realize there is a possibility you have no clue what a gulag is, and therefore thought you were witty to use a word you have a half assed understanding of.

****tard.

:Broncos:

rastaboras does not concern himself with history or definitions, rastaboras is only concerned with players getting as much cash as they possibly can.

Rohirrim
01-07-2010, 04:57 PM
By your definition (playoffs) McDaniels hasn't led a productive offense in 2 consecutive years now, coincidentally the only two years Tom Brady wasn't his QB. I can handle going in a different direction, even if it takes time, but the direction better stop being backwards soon.

If McD doesn't go out in this draft and FA and start bringing in some big uglies, I'll start getting worried. Josh admitted he screwed up his first draft because he wasn't sure what he had. No excuses now. He now knows two things without a doubt: The Broncos don't have the beef to get a yard when they need it and the the Dline can't penetrate hard enough to destroy the running lanes. By year three, I expect the Broncos to win the AFCW.

Popps
01-07-2010, 05:42 PM
Funny how this thread sort of went dead when the question was posed about other Shanahan players having no problem earning playing time while Hillis couldn't.

Pretty much the same way the other Hillis threads ended.

Requiem
01-07-2010, 06:04 PM
It is an awesome question. It takes awesome people to answer it!

skpac1001
01-07-2010, 06:15 PM
Funny how this thread sort of went dead when the question was posed about other Shanahan players having no problem earning playing time while Hillis couldn't.

Pretty much the same way the other Hillis threads ended.

I imagine since McDaniels is at wits end trying to integrate somebody who basically fits his offense like Royal, as well as slightly off-fit guys like Scheff, I think he put figuring out how to use a not-quite rb not-quite fb type to best advantage on the back burner. I can admit that Hillis, like Alstott, is a tough player for coaches to figure out, and since McDaniels can't even figure out the easy Shanny guys right now, he doesn't want to bite off the ones that even Shanny had a hard time with.

McDman
01-07-2010, 06:28 PM
You're just a bitter guy, Chris. Learn to move into the future with the rest of the world.

You spent way more time bashing Shanahan than I did. That's what makes your little act even more comical.

But, you keep proffering lies and bull**** to protect a 4th string RB, Chris. That makes a ton of sense. Great place to put your energies.

Ok, why do you use his name multiple times in every post? Is it trying to establish dominance or something? It's kind of weird.

Florida_Bronco
01-07-2010, 07:15 PM
All the other stuff I've already said. You can pretend like Hillis hasn't made a solid case for himself Hillis made a great case for himself being on the bench and that's where Josh put him.


but I think the evidence points towards him being a productive, game-breaking type of back. He has all the physical tools to do it. If he "gets it" mentally he will probably become that type of back.

He hasn't, and he isn't.

And Moreno didn't? What games were you watching? Moreno missed blockes, ran into linemen, dropped balls, fumbled, tripped over his own feet and in the end didn't break a single run to change a game. He hardly had a steller year. I sure hope he improves or we will need to back to the draft for a RB.

I don't recall us burning any timeouts because Moreno didn't know where to line up.

As for having a stellar year, he was the leading rusher among all NFL rookies, so at the very least he is better than his peers currently.

Requiem
01-07-2010, 07:24 PM
Ok, why do you use his name multiple times in every post? Is it trying to establish dominance or something? It's kind of weird.

Contrary to popular belief, my name is also Chris and not Requiem. We have names for a reason, McDurdledoo.

slyinky
01-07-2010, 07:46 PM
Funny how this thread sort of went dead when the question was posed about other Shanahan players having no problem earning playing time while Hillis couldn't.

Pretty much the same way the other Hillis threads ended.

I've skimmed through the various Hillis threads and what I find funny, well funny and kind of pathetic, is that you must have over 500 posts in said threads. I mean seriously, for a guy who you deem so insignificant why the hard-on?

Popps
01-07-2010, 09:17 PM
I've skimmed through the various Hillis threads and what I find funny, well funny and kind of pathetic, is that you must have over 500 posts in said threads. I mean seriously, for a guy who you deem so insignificant why the hard-on?

It's great conversation. Why not talk about it?


HE is insignificant. The conversation, however is no more or less valid than any football board conversation. It's all bull**** in the big picture.

If you were driving down the highway and saw two trains collide on the tracks next to the road, would you look over?

Well, there you go.

Popps
01-07-2010, 09:19 PM
Anyway, we can put a fork in this thread.

I asked the magical question, and people just sort of vanish... and it dies.

Someone else will post another Hillis thread... I'll ask the same question... and the thread will die again.






RIP latest Hills thread.

Taco John
01-07-2010, 09:27 PM
None of the other players had first round draft picks in front of them.

Wow. That was a real tough question. You're a thread killer, alright.

Popps
01-07-2010, 09:34 PM
None of the other players had first round draft picks in front of them.

Wow. That was a real tough question. You're a thread killer, alright.

But, Woodyard had a guy in front of him that McDaniels brought in.

A. Smith was a highly publicized, high draft pick who was benched, AND deactivated.

Ayers was benched at times.

Larsen saw plenty of work.

Your excuse would fly if we were talking about why he wasn't a STARTER. We're just talking about why he couldn't manage to work himself into the rotation.

We have countless examples of Shanahan guys playing crucial roles as starters and back-ups.

McDaniels benched his own highly publicized draft pick in favor of some 47 year old CB who was out of work. But, you're telling me that JUST in the instance of Moreno, McDaniels was ****-scared to give Hillis any carries because he thought he might look TOO good?

Hilarious!

Again, when we've got countless examples of productive Shanahan players on this team, the whole "he's not a McDaniels guy" argument is put to death.

So, you need to come up with a better reason. One that has any basis in evidence, and one that isn't easily refutable by data we have easily at hand.

Keep trying.

Taco John
01-07-2010, 09:39 PM
But, Woodyard had a guy in front of him that McDaniels brought in.

A. Smith was a highly publicized, high draft pick who was benched, AND deactivated.

Ayers was benched at times.

Larsen saw plenty of work.

Your excuse would fly if we were talking about why he wasn't a STARTER. We're just talking about why he couldn't manage to work himself into the rotation.

We have countless examples of Shanahan guys playing crucial roles as starters and back-ups.

McDaniels benched his own highly publicized draft pick in favor of some 47 year old CB who was out of work. But, you're telling me that JUST in the instance of Moreno, McDaniels was ****-scared to give Hillis any carries because he thought he might look TOO good?

Hilarious!

Again, when we've got countless examples of productive Shanahan players on this team, the whole "he's not a McDaniels guy" argument is put to death.

So, you need to come up with a better reason. One that has any basis in evidence, and one that isn't easily refutable by data we have easily at hand.

Keep trying.



None of those are first round picks.

I don't know why Josh squandered Hillis's talent. Trying to guess seems pretty pointless (I'd like for Josh to show some accountability himself for that question). I just know that he wasn't able to get what Shanahan managed to get out of him - not to mention an array of other players who took strides backwards.

You asked your question, so now answer mine: how is it that Shanahan was able to get so much out of so many of these guys, but they ended up regressing under McDaniels?

rugbythug
01-07-2010, 09:47 PM
I think McDaniels is a Dumb Ass. SHanny was much more tan. If Mcdaniels tanned more he would be a better coach. Pu$$y

rugbythug
01-07-2010, 09:48 PM
Hillis is the Awesome. It only Requires 4 RB's to die for him to show the Awesome. Next year hopefully we have 4 RB's This year we only had 3 and that was the most problem.

Popps
01-08-2010, 12:55 PM
None of those are first round picks.


But, Ayers was a first round pick... and he was benched through the course of the season.

So, once again... we have to ask ourselves, why were SO MANY other Shanahan players able to be successful with the new staff while Hillis couldn't earn regular work for the 2nd season in a row?

So, no... you didn't answer my question. You tossed out a conspiracy theory that is easily disproved by using other data.

Honestly, Taco... are you so petty and shallow that you really and truly believe a head coach would jeopardize his future in the league by intentionally losing games just so a 4th round RB didn't look as good as a first round pick?

Really, dude? You honestly believe that? And you're how old?

Taco John
01-08-2010, 12:58 PM
Conspiracy theory! Hilarious!

Popps
01-08-2010, 01:14 PM
Conspiracy theory! Hilarious!

I know, it's funny ****. A coach is going to purposely drive his team's record into the ground because he's so fearful of a 4th string RB having success.

Funny indeed.