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View Full Version : By the numbers: Cutler and Orton


HEAV
01-06-2010, 06:59 PM
The first year for Jay Cutler and Kyle Orton with their new teams is officially over.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2680/capturexn.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/capturexn.jpg/)http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/capturexn.jpg/1/w262.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img140/capturexn.jpg/1/)


The numbers are in and there are some remarkably close comparisons. Still, looking at the numbers, the argument has to be made that Orton had the better year than Cutler. Orton threw 14 fewer interceptions than Cutler in 14 fewer passes. Orton also had a significantly higher passers’ rating than Cutler.

Chicago acquired Cutler from Denver last spring. Denver received two first-round picks, Orton and a third-round pick in exchange for Cutler and a fifth-round pick.


http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/8844/by-the-numbers-cutler-and-orton
For Orton to have better numbers than Cutler has to be discouraging for the Bears and exciting for Denver. Of course, Cutler has a ton of potential. But the first-year numbers show perhaps Denver made the right choice.

snowspot66
01-06-2010, 08:04 PM
Percentage wise Orton pretty much matched or outdid Cutlers stats from 08. I doubt we go QB this year. The lines are much more important at this point. Much more potential for a higher boost in performance by picking up some linemen than taking a QB. Maybe in 2011 depending on how Orton does with a year under his belt in the system.

misturanderson
01-06-2010, 08:21 PM
Percentage wise Orton pretty much matched or outdid Cutlers stats from 08. I doubt we go QB this year. The lines are much more important at this point. Much more potential for a higher boost in performance by picking up some linemen than taking a QB. Maybe in 2011 depending on how Orton does with a year under his belt in the system.

I would agree, but I would think that if a QB fell that McD thought was the absolute BPA at that draft position, he might be willing to pick him up. I don't think McD thinks the QB position is above significant improvement, but I do think that he feels (rightfully so) that the line was the biggest offensive issue this year.

Dagmar
01-06-2010, 10:11 PM
The same crowd who tear Moreno apart for his performance while refusing to take into account outside factors will be here soon to whine about it all being someone, ANYONE, other than Jay's fault.

Merlin
01-06-2010, 10:23 PM
The same crowd who tear Moreno apart for his performance while refusing to take into account outside factors will be here soon to whine about it all being someone, ANYONE, other than Jay's fault.
Yeah, because Cutler had an equally talented, OL, RBs, WRs and O coordinator...yeah, it is clearly a simple and fair comparison.

Inkana7
01-06-2010, 10:24 PM
Did anyone notice that Cutler passed for 3,666 yards?

Jason in LA
01-06-2010, 10:24 PM
Oh no, not another Cutler vs. Orton thread. Yikes!

DBroncos4life
01-06-2010, 10:25 PM
The same crowd who tear Moreno apart for his performance while refusing to take into account outside factors will be here soon to whine about it all being someone, ANYONE, other than Jay's fault.

Why are you always the first person in a thread whining about people going to whine? I often wondered if anyone has thought about trying to cure aids by giving the person more aids. Odds are it won't work but what if it did?

Dagmar
01-06-2010, 10:41 PM
Why are you always the first person in a thread whining about people going to whine? I often wondered if anyone has thought about trying to cure aids by giving the person more aids. Odds are it won't work but what if it did?

No, in the search for a cure for aids there are plenty of people who have aids (31.3 million adults) there are...

...wait, is that what you were asking?

I love that I have so many fans now...

TheDave
01-06-2010, 10:47 PM
What was the comparison on 3rd down? I always felt cutler was at his best on 3rd & long. Orton on the other hand scares me on anything over 3 & 4.

Dagmar
01-06-2010, 10:50 PM
What was the comparison on 3rd down? I always felt cutler was at his best on 3rd & long. Orton on the other hand scares me on anything over 3 & 4.

Cutler's mobility was far superior. Of course that "ability to make a play" also led to many a turnover, be it fumble or pick.

Cutler IS the last 2 minutes of that 39 - 38 SD game. He lost us that game, but away with a technicality and then won it in spectacular fashion.

DBroncos4life
01-06-2010, 11:03 PM
What was the comparison on 3rd down? I always felt cutler was at his best on 3rd & long. Orton on the other hand scares me on anything over 3 & 4.

Cutler had a higher completion % then Orton but 12 of Culters picks came on third down this year. All Cutler really did was save his punter some work this year so it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. ;D

TheDave
01-06-2010, 11:07 PM
Cutler had a higher completion % then Orton but 12 of Culters picks came on third down this year. All Cutler really did was save his punter some work this year so it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. ;D

Yeah I was wondering what happened this year... Last season he was 48%ish and #3 in the league on 3rd down.

I figured it would drop but I wasn't sure if it fell into Orton's territory.

Orton needs to put some serious work into his 3rd down efficiancy, like I said anything over 3&4 and I was expecting to see Berger.

strafen
01-06-2010, 11:08 PM
It doesn't matter whether Orton would have another year or not under his belt playing this system.
You can't teach talent and physical abilities. That's all there is to it.

DBroncos4life
01-06-2010, 11:11 PM
Yeah I was wondering what happened this year... Last season he was 48%ish and #3 in the league on 3rd down.

I figured it would drop but I wasn't sure if it fell into Orton's territory.

Orton needs to put some serious work into his 3rd down efficiancy, like I said anything over 3&4 and I was expecting to see Berger.

I really feel that having Culter throw a INT on third down would have helped our D out this year instead of having Berger punt. LOL

TheDave
01-06-2010, 11:13 PM
I really feel that having Culter throw a INT on third down would have helped our D out this year instead of having Berger punt. LOL

Good point, who had a better net a cutler pick on 3rd down or a berger punt on 4th?

ROFL!

Dagmar
01-06-2010, 11:14 PM
I really feel that having Culter throw a INT on third down would have helped our D out this year instead of having Berger punt. LOL


It would be LOL if it wasn't true!

Berger's long punts were the worst I have EVER seen.

DBroncos4life
01-06-2010, 11:17 PM
Good point, who had a better net a cutler pick on 3rd down or a berger punt on 4th?

ROFL!

I think Cutler pinned teams inside the 20 with the best of the them this year.

Ray_Lewis'_Victim
01-06-2010, 11:26 PM
I wonder how much Orton was affected by his ankle injury. He looked a LOT more mobile against the Chiefs than he had in a while. He may not be the next Tom Brady, but the man certainly has balls.

Dagmar
01-06-2010, 11:28 PM
I wonder how much Orton was affected by his ankle injury. He looked a LOT more mobile against the Chiefs than he had in a while. He may not be the next Tom Brady, but the man certainly has balls.

Big Bearded Balls! :afro:

snowspot66
01-06-2010, 11:32 PM
It doesn't matter whether Orton would have another year or not under his belt playing this system.
You can't teach talent and physical abilities. That's all there is to it.

Uhuh, sure. Being more comfortable and sure of where all of your receivers will be and when won't make any difference at all.

hambone13
01-06-2010, 11:41 PM
Big Bearded Balls! :afro:

The guy's balls are so full of accountability they're Orange and Blue...

Archer81
01-06-2010, 11:45 PM
Chicken and a fish gettin...buckwild.


:Broncos:

HEAV
01-07-2010, 07:27 AM
Yeah I was wondering what happened this year... Last season he was 48%ish and #3 in the league on 3rd down.

I figured it would drop but I wasn't sure if it fell into Orton's territory.

Orton needs to put some serious work into his 3rd down efficiancy, like I said anything over 3&4 and I was expecting to see Berger.

With a improved center/guard combo along with Moreno getting it together, will only help Orton. Not to mention second year in the offense for Kyle.

He still needs to work on check downs.

Kaylore
01-07-2010, 08:29 AM
Cutler had a higher completion % then Orton but 12 of Culters picks came on third down this year. All Cutler really did was save his punter some work this year so it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. ;D

Beat me to it. Cutler used to be pretty good on third down. This year he was more likely to kill his own team on third down. TheDave, you may have been scared of Orton on third down but the worst he did was take a sack (still bad) whereas Cutler would give the ball away quite a bit. He had a horrible year and Orton had a decent one.

DrFate
01-07-2010, 08:33 AM
Cutler screwed the pooch this year. Even if you think he is the better player (like I do) - nobody can defend his performance in 09.

strafen
01-07-2010, 08:59 AM
Uhuh, sure. Being more comfortable and sure of where all of your receivers will be and when won't make any difference at all.For the love of God, were you really pumped up when you'd heard Orton was coming to Denver?
Really?
This guy is a lousy QB no matter how you slice it.
If you want mediocricy, then pray we keep this bum as our QB.

Steve Prefontaine
01-07-2010, 09:05 AM
Cutler's mobility was far superior. Of course that "ability to make a play" also led to many a turnover, be it fumble or pick.

Cutler IS the last 2 minutes of that 39 - 38 SD game. He lost us that game, but away with a technicality and then won it in spectacular fashion.

Wow. 31 "legit" points that day and Cutler lost us a game that we actually won.

Mind blown.

Steve Prefontaine
01-07-2010, 09:09 AM
Numbers of the QB that "lost" that SD game...

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="stathead" style="background: rgb(0, 46, 77) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><td colspan="6">Denver Passing</td></tr><tr class="colhead" align="right"><td align="left" width="125px"> </td><td>C/ATT</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>TD</td><td>INT</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" align="right"><td align="left">J. Cutler (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9597)</td><td>36/50</td><td>350</td><td>7.0</td><td>4</td><td>1</td></tr></tbody></table>

Dagmar
01-07-2010, 09:21 AM
Wow. 31 "legit" points that day and Cutler lost us a game that we actually won.

Mind blown.

Urgh, you Cutler fan boys. I was talking about a specific 2 minute period, and I wasn't being a douche about Cutler, even though he is a douche. In a two minute spell he fumbled the game away (then Hoculi-ed)and then won it with two genius passes.

I am glad I can blow your mind though, you football genius you.

Dagmar
01-07-2010, 09:23 AM
]Numbers of the QB that "lost" that SD game...[/B]

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="stathead" style="background: rgb(0, 46, 77) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><td colspan="6">Denver Passing</td></tr><tr class="colhead" align="right"><td align="left" width="125px"> </td><td>C/ATT</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>TD</td><td>INT</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" align="right"><td align="left">J. Cutler (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9597)</td><td>36/50</td><td>350</td><td>7.0</td><td>4</td><td>1</td></tr></tbody></table>

The game we won? Did you read my post, I was making an example of Cutler being genius and awful in a brief period of the game.

Can you get Cutler's pinky dick out of your mouth for 2 seconds to get that? No, don't you say anything bad about my boyfriend... Noooooooooooo!

I could pull up some numbers for games he ACTUALLY lost if you fancy? Not just for us? For the Bears this year?

Steve Prefontaine
01-07-2010, 09:30 AM
The game we won? Did you read my post, I was making an example of Cutler being genius and awful in a brief period of the game.

Can you get Cutler's pinky ********* your mouth for 2 seconds to get that? No, don't you say anything bad about my boyfriend... Noooooooooooo!

I could pull up some numbers for games he ACTUALLY lost if you fancy? Not just for us? For the Bears this year?
Don't get your panties in a bunch.

Yes, I read your post. It was stupid. Your point was that Cutler lost Denver a game in which they actually won. Super great retarded **** right there.

Dagmar
01-07-2010, 09:35 AM
Don't get your panties in a bunch.

Yes, I read your post. It was stupid. Your point was that Cutler lost Denver a game in which they actually won. Super great retarded **** right there.

Tht is correct, that is EXACTLY what I posted you retard.

He lost us that game, but got away with a technicality and then won it in spectacular fashion.

I was REFERENCING the last 2 minutes of the game. It's hilarious how you idiots jump and defend Cutler at any opportunity you think he is being attacked, even though I complimented the guy twice in my original post.

You are special.

Jay thinks you are special and thanks you for being a Bears fan.

Steve Prefontaine
01-07-2010, 09:42 AM
Tht is correct, that is EXACTLY what I posted you retard.



I was REFERENCING the last 2 minutes of the game. It's hilarious how you idiots jump and defend Cutler at any opportunity you think he is being attacked, even though I complimented the guy twice in my original post.

You are special.

Jay thinks you are special and thanks you for being a Bears fan.
This is like debating with a chimp. I completely get what you are trying to say. It's stupid.

Dagmar
01-07-2010, 09:50 AM
This is like debating with a chimp. I completely get what you are trying to say. It's stupid.

Keep stamping your feet buddy, it's hilarious.

Steve Prefontaine
01-07-2010, 09:55 AM
Keep stamping your feet buddy, it's hilarious.

Will do pal.

Merlin
01-07-2010, 11:12 AM
He [Cutler] had a horrible year and Orton had a decent one.
With a far inferior team Cutler had one less win than Orton. Orton had a decent yr and Cutler are horrible one. Makes sense. Cutler had a bad yr in a very bad and poorly coached team. With his tools he could do better, but his performance was far more impressive than Orton's. At best, from a Denver perspective, they both had a mediocre yr. The one good thing about Orton is that if McD is able to establish the type of game he wants (which I highly doubt because he has shown nothing that would give credence to the assumption that he is a good talent evaluator), Orton could succeed, because he showed that with excellent protection and running game he can be good. However, it is not that easy to create that level of protection around a QB.

Beantown Bronco
01-07-2010, 11:15 AM
With a far inferior team Cutler had one less win than Orton.

Unless the two teams played the same schedule, then this type of comparison is useless.

Rabb
01-07-2010, 11:16 AM
With a far inferior team Cutler had one less win than Orton. Orton had a decent yr and Cutler are horrible one. Makes sense. Cutler had a bad yr in a very bad and poorly coached team. With his tools he could do better, but his performance was far more impressive than Orton's. At best, from a Denver perspective, they both had a mediocre yr. The one good thing about Orton is that if McD is able to establish the type of game he wants (which I highly doubt because he has shown nothing that would give credence to the assumption that he is a good talent evaluator), Orton could succeed, because he showed that with excellent protection and running game he can be good. However, it is not that easy to create that level of protection around a QB.

you may want to think about that a little, the protection this year was pretty pedestrian as a whole and the running game kinda' sucked ass

it may be better than Chicago's line, but don't fool yourself into thinking we were the 2008 line this past season

Rabb
01-07-2010, 11:19 AM
Unless the two teams played the same schedule, then this type of comparison is useless.

it will always be useless here because there will always be a defense for one side or another

if Cutler had the better year people would credit him for overcoming their deficiencies

he had a similar year and people blame it on the talent around him (sound familiar?)

Orton is not a top 10 guy but I hate that he takes such a beating around here, the guy played better than I thought he would this season and I can hardly blame our record (sans maybe 2 glaring exceptions) on him. How many games did Jay flat out LOSE for Chicago?

Who ****ing cares, let's just dance with the b**** we brought to the ball and hope she puts out for now.

Rigs11
01-07-2010, 11:20 AM
Yeah, because Cutler had an equally talented, OL, RBs, WRs and O coordinator...yeah, it is clearly a simple and fair comparison.

yeah and the broncos had a tougher schedule. Whats your point?

Dagmar
01-07-2010, 11:23 AM
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z179/spidey1703/2z6w5li.gif

snowspot66
01-07-2010, 11:27 AM
For the love of God, were you really pumped up when you'd heard Orton was coming to Denver?
Really?
This guy is a lousy QB no matter how you slice it.
If you want mediocricy, then pray we keep this bum as our QB.

Changing the subject because I'm right I see.

Your problem is everything is in black and white. Of course it usually is for those with a messiah complex, showing us the light and all that bull****. That was you wasn't it?

Where have I ever said Orton was a great QB?

What he is is effective and gives us a chance to compete while we fix serious problems with our team. You throw a rookie in there (and I don't believe there is one McDaniels will see as an improvement this year) and we're looking at several seasons of suck because this team in general lacks enough talent to succeed even with with Veterans leading it.