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View Full Version : What did everyone think of this years ameoba offense


skpac1001
01-06-2010, 06:58 PM
I remember how in the beginning of the offseason the talk was all about the ameoba offense, how the identity would change game to game. I just wondered if anyone else thought that was kind of funny in retrospect. Don't get me wrong, when I think of this season I am going to think of the incredible offensive changes from one game to the next. Transformations really.
Some games the 15 screens would go only to the right, then the next game, it would be a mix of which way the 15 screens went. On 3rd or 4th and short they would call only Moreno runs into the middle, then the next game the short yardage calls would change completely into Moreno to the slightly off-center.
It is really refreshing when we are not at all predictable, when we are so versatile that we cannot be prepared for. I can't wait for the wrinkles he will put in this year.

_Oro_
01-06-2010, 07:00 PM
Well we ran the wild horses against NE.

Ziggy
01-06-2010, 07:03 PM
When you can't run the ball or protect the QB, the playbook dwindles in a hurry. I'll judge this offense when McD has the players he wants in it, and they have the ability to run the ball.

strafen
01-06-2010, 07:46 PM
This offense was nothing close to what I was expecting it to be.
We did seem to have all the weapons to create favorable situations, but as it turned out, we became too predictable; not enough mix of players catching the ball during a game.
In other words, I would've loved to see our offense spread the ball some more...

snowspot66
01-06-2010, 07:50 PM
Until we can run the ball effectively and get a receiver both big enough and fast enough to be a true deep threat (Royal too small, Marshall not fast by receiver standards) this offense will be limited. On the bright side it seems to be very good at getting guys open and putting us in good positions for third downs. We had a lot of short yardage on third down this year. Didn't do **** with it but that should improve next year if that historically based projection based on our first and second down production holds true.

gyldenlove
01-06-2010, 07:58 PM
Definitely had some ups and downs on offense. I do think we at times got way too cute instead of going for the throat when we had the chance.

One thing that did seem obvious was that in some games we had a very limited game plan that we didn't deviate from even when it became apparent that things weren't working.

I hope we can get a fuller game book and more variated playcalling next season, it really did seem like we too often relied on the gameplan to score points, and if something wasn't in there then we just didn't do anything.

Popps
01-06-2010, 08:27 PM
It's difficult to judge this offense until we can line up and run right at teams. If you watched the Chiefs game... we had very little problem moving the ball through the air. But, we had all sorts of trouble running the ball.

Until that's fixed, this offense won't be consistently productive.

It all starts up front, and my guess is that we'll put a lot of resources into upgrading the interior line so this isn't the case next year.

broncosteven
01-06-2010, 09:12 PM
It's difficult to judge this offense until we can line up and run right at teams. If you watched the Chiefs game... we had very little problem moving the ball through the air. But, we had all sorts of trouble running the ball.

Until that's fixed, this offense won't be consistently productive.

It all starts up front, and my guess is that we'll put a lot of resources into upgrading the interior line so this isn't the case next year.

Until Orton was forced to throw to his 2nd option, then the INT's came as fast as a Bears game.

I don't think Orton will ever get any better than what we saw this last year, there was a reason he was thrown away by Chicago to sweeten the pot to complete the trade.

The more I think about it Cutler's mobility made the Oline better and the Oline made Cutler better. Orton has no mobility and goes down if brushed against.

Taco John
01-06-2010, 09:27 PM
It's too bad Hillis wasn't given more of a chance to contribute.

bpc
01-06-2010, 09:37 PM
I thought the offense was pathetic. We had some players that could contribute, but they weren't given the proper opportunity to. The scheme sucked. Magically a offensive line which gave up 12 sacks gave up, what, 40? Eddie Royal should be listed on the back of a milkcarton the way he was erased from playing offense.

This is not the offense I thought we were going to have, coming out the shoots with our newly minted offensive genius. Maybe the McD show in New England was really the Tom Brady and Pro Bowler's at WR show?

skpac1001
01-06-2010, 09:57 PM
Well, I realize you guys are right, and this offense won't show what it could be until it has the right pieces in place. I think that is pretty much true for every team in the NFL though (few teams have a perfect fit offense at all positions), and I think most coaches would say that Denver has (had?) more raw talent on offense then all but a handful of teams in the NFL. I guess I am just bitter because I bit into the amoeba offense offseason story and the last thing I expected this year was for Royal and Hillis to be ghosts and our scoring per game to be even worse then the sad number (for our talent level) it was last year. Right now this whole thing feels way to close to the Brian Billick story to be comfortable with me (builds reputation with record setting attacking offense with star studded recieving corps featuring Moss, never able to come close to high end offense with different personnel).
Oh well, give me a few months without football and an exciting draft and I will be biting on the next homer story.

montrose
01-06-2010, 10:07 PM
I agree with Taco that Hillis could've really brought a great element to this offense and I just can't understand why McD didn't use him other than the theory that he had trouble picking up the offense (I believe Hillis' inability to lineup correctly caused the team to burn a time out against NE and that was the last we really saw of him).

During camp I had the feeling the offense was being coached more to not make mistakes than make plays and that carried over into the season. There seemed to be a tough balance between trying to set a new identity and play winning football. I'm hopeful that in year two together with an OL better suited for this offense, McD and Orton will integrate more of the principles of his offense (dominating on the OL, a heavy dose of intermediate routes and passes to the RB lulling the defense to sleep and going down field for the dagger).

broncocalijohn
01-06-2010, 10:29 PM
just came in to say happy birthday!

wandlc
01-06-2010, 10:33 PM
It is interesting that this line averaged more yards per game last year without having a regular RB all season. The decision to abandon the ZBS hurt the run game. The ZBS run game could have easily coexisted with the dink and dunk pass game and might have helped it out by allowing more play action with the mobile QB we have. Maybe in the future McD will get his head out of rectal defilade and turn down his arrogance a little bit. Mike Tomlin as a DC didn't run a 3-4 Defense, did he change the Steelers D when he got the job? No, he understood what he had in a DC and defense and continued with it. McD kept both Turner and Dennison for some reason which I have yet to figure out, he sure didn't use their abilities and knowledge.

Taco John
01-06-2010, 10:51 PM
it is interesting that this line averaged more yards per game last year without having a regular rb all season. The decision to abandon the zbs hurt the run game. The zbs run game could have easily coexisted with the dink and dunk pass game and might have helped it out by allowing more play action with the mobile qb we have. Maybe in the future mcd will get his head out of rectal defilade and turn down his arrogance a little bit. mike tomlin as a dc didn't run a 3-4 defense, did he change the steelers d when he got the job? No, he understood what he had in a dc and defense and continued with it. mcd kept both turner and dennison for some reason which i have yet to figure out, he sure didn't use their abilities and knowledge.


+1

BigPlayShay
01-06-2010, 10:58 PM
Found it to be more of a paramecium.

GreatBronco16
01-06-2010, 10:59 PM
It's too bad Hillis wasn't given more of a chance to contribute.

The Hillis thread to give him blowjobs in on page two I believe. Try looking there.

strafen
01-06-2010, 11:02 PM
It is interesting that this line averaged more yards per game last year without having a regular RB all season. The decision to abandon the ZBS hurt the run game. The ZBS run game could have easily coexisted with the dink and dunk pass game and might have helped it out by allowing more play action with the mobile QB we have. Maybe in the future McD will get his head out of rectal defilade and turn down his arrogance a little bit. Mike Tomlin as a DC didn't run a 3-4 Defense, did he change the Steelers D when he got the job? No, he understood what he had in a DC and defense and continued with it. McD kept both Turner and Dennison for some reason which I have yet to figure out, he sure didn't use their abilities and knowledge.Next to why kamekaze pilots wore helmets, that's got to be one of the greatest mysteries in history... ;)

GreatBronco16
01-06-2010, 11:04 PM
I thought the offense was pathetic. We had some players that could contribute, but they weren't given the proper opportunity to. The scheme sucked. Magically a offensive line which gave up 12 sacks gave up, what, 40?

Try 29 sacks. Then subtract 17 to equal your twelve and that is how many more turnover we would have had on offense.

It's funny how people are thrilled with the Oline only giving up 12 sacks with a mobile Cutler, all the while instead of taking sacks, Cutler made up for it by throwing INTs, but Orton takes the sack instead all the while throwing way, way less INTs, and Orton is now the reason why the Oline sucks compared to last year.

Yeah, Ok.

Popps
01-06-2010, 11:46 PM
Until Orton was forced to throw to his 2nd option, then the INT's came as fast as a Bears game.
.

Wrong.

He threw to his second option when he needed to. If you recall, his second option had a couple of drops earlier in the game. It had nothing to do with options, it has to do with teams knowing you're going to throw on every single down. Even a "great" QB like Cutler got into trouble last year because we had to do the same thing.

Again, a couple of the biggest plays in the game were to his 2nd and 3rd options. But, when you tell a defense you're simply going to pass on every down, they're eventually going to poach a couple of INTs.

Point being, no matter who is back there... it's a ridiculous position for an offense to be in. If you can't run the ball, you can't win games late in the year.

How many times do we have to go over this around here?

hambone13
01-06-2010, 11:52 PM
It is interesting that this line averaged more yards per game last year without having a regular RB all season. The decision to abandon the ZBS hurt the run game. The ZBS run game could have easily coexisted with the dink and dunk pass game and might have helped it out by allowing more play action with the mobile QB we have. Maybe in the future McD will get his head out of rectal defilade and turn down his arrogance a little bit. Mike Tomlin as a DC didn't run a 3-4 Defense, did he change the Steelers D when he got the job? No, he understood what he had in a DC and defense and continued with it. McD kept both Turner and Dennison for some reason which I have yet to figure out, he sure didn't use their abilities and knowledge.

+2 Don't run an offense you don't have the personnel for but have the best coach in the league for....ridiculous.

Popps
01-07-2010, 12:17 AM
It's too bad Hillis wasn't given more of a chance to contribute.

Yep. It's a shame he couldn't earn it like the rest of the guys on the roster.

Maybe with his next team.

hambone13
01-07-2010, 12:38 AM
Yep. It's a shame he couldn't earn it like the rest of the guys on the roster.

Maybe with his next team.

Did you watch the year end presser with McD? What did you think about the lack details about what he was willing to say about Hillis but has been so willing to discuss regarding other players? I can't imagine how Hillis didn't earn the team's respect when McDaniels talked him up about his practice and training schedule on at least 2 occasions during press conferences. McD gave him one shot in the KC game and was sarcastic about it....like Hillis should have popped that play and made it happen. That was a horrible play call. What DC didin't know that play was coming. It's almost like he did it because he knew that journalist was going to ask.

Popps
01-07-2010, 01:31 AM
Did you watch the year end presser with McD? What did you think about the lack details .

I think that's a polite way to say... "he's not as good as the other guys we have, and he's got problems with the mental side of the game."


But, that's just a guess.

yerner
01-07-2010, 01:55 AM
I thought the offense was awful. If you didn't know any better you never would have thought Mcdaniels is the young innovative coach that controlled the New England offense.

Its actually really odd how bad some players were in it, which has me thinking it might be entirely possible that lots of the broncos simply didnt know what they were doing.

Maybe there just wasn't enough time for the new playbook to get entirely comprehended this year. It could be that simple.

ZONA
01-07-2010, 02:41 AM
I thought the offense was pathetic. We had some players that could contribute, but they weren't given the proper opportunity to. The scheme sucked. Magically a offensive line which gave up 12 sacks gave up, what, 40? Eddie Royal should be listed on the back of a milkcarton the way he was erased from playing offense.

This is not the offense I thought we were going to have, coming out the shoots with our newly minted offensive genius. Maybe the McD show in New England was really the Tom Brady and Pro Bowler's at WR show?

Well there is NO doubt that a HOF elite QB makes a huge difference. I mean, even Shanny had problems when he didn't have Elway. To be totally honest, you can change all kinds of things on your offense, schemes, players, coaches, but it all seems to even out for the good or bad depending on who's behind center. If you're lucky enough to have a good one, things usually go well for you. If you have a bad one, they go bad for you. And if you have a mediocre one, like we have, you usually end up mediocre, like we were.

lol

WolfpackGuy
01-07-2010, 07:18 AM
The offense seemed to be designed by an amoeba.

cmhargrove
01-07-2010, 07:38 AM
It wasn't my favorite offense ever, but honestly if they could just fix their short yardage running plays, I feel like we could have easily won 3 more games this year.

And one of those games would have been against the Colts.

I agree that we need to fix the run game first, then the passing lanes will open more easily. Our WR corps is plenty talented enough.

jhns
01-07-2010, 07:39 AM
This offense showed it now has a ton to work on. We need a new center, guard, and QB. McDaniels also needs to learn how to use players to their strengths. If you don't have the players to do something, you probably shouldn't keep trying it a thousand times. Guys like Royal also didn't forget how to get open. I get that McDaniels needs his own players but another year of this will be unacceptable in my mind. To many young players suddenly fell off the map and the offense struggled in every improtant area. We were horrible on third down and in the red zone. The turnovers that we were so good about early in the year also started being a big problem by the end of the year.

We have a lot to work on so let's see what this staff can do.

fontaine
01-07-2010, 08:51 AM
1. Talented and heady players like Gaffney, Buck, Marshall etc can work in different types of offenses but I'm not convinced about Moreno/Royal/Orton yet and how they can handle changes week to week (not in gameplans) but in their specific roles.

2. Don't chop and change the OL schemes. Either run a power oriented scheme and get the damn players can do it, or go back to a primary ZBS. This mixing and matching is not utilising the strengths of the good players we have along the OL, nevermind the weak links like Weigman/Hamilton/Hochstein.

Stick to an OL philosophy early in the off season and build your draft/FA and training camp for that. At least then you give your players the best chance to succeed instead of asking Hamilton/Weigman to go one on one with 320+lb DTs.

Gutless Drunk
01-07-2010, 09:14 AM
Wrong.

He threw to his second option when he needed to. If you recall, his second option had a couple of drops earlier in the game. It had nothing to do with options, it has to do with teams knowing you're going to throw on every single down. Even a "great" QB like Cutler got into trouble last year because we had to do the same thing.

Again, a couple of the biggest plays in the game were to his 2nd and 3rd options. But, when you tell a defense you're simply going to pass on every down, they're eventually going to poach a couple of INTs.

Point being, no matter who is back there... it's a ridiculous position for an offense to be in. If you can't run the ball, you can't win games late in the year.

How many times do we have to go over this around here?

Rushing Yards Leaders
RK TEAM ATT YDS YDS/A LONG TD YDS/G FUM FUML
1 NY Jets 607 2756 4.5 71 21 172.3 9 4
2 Tennessee 499 2592 5.2 91 19 162.0 14 8
3 Carolina 525 2498 4.8 77 18 156.1 11 6
4 Miami 509 2231 4.4 68 22 139.4 11 5
5 Baltimore 468 2200 4.7 77 22 137.5 6 3
6 New Orleans 468 2106 4.5 55 21 131.6 6 4
7 Dallas 436 2103 4.8 66 14 131.4 6 3
8 Cleveland 498 2087 4.2 71 10 130.4 6 4
9 Cincinnati 505 2056 4.1 61 9 128.5 8 1
10 Jacksonville 447 2029 4.5 80 19 126.8 7 4
11 Kansas City 438 1929 4.4 76 8 120.6 14 5
12 New England 466 1921 4.1 55 19 120.1 7 5
13 Minnesota 467 1918 4.1 64 19 119.9 8 5
14 Green Bay 438 1885 4.3 62 20 117.8 3 0
15 Atlanta 451 1876 4.2 58 15 117.3 5 3
16 Buffalo 424 1867 4.4 47 6 116.7 6 3
17 NY Giants 443 1837 4.1 38 14 114.8 12 7
18 Denver 440 1836 4.2 45 9 114.8 6 4
19 Pittsburgh 428 1793 4.2 60 10 112.1 8 5
20 St. Louis 411 1784 4.3 58 4 111.5 7 4
21 Oakland 410 1701 4.1 60 7 106.3 8 5
22 Philadelphia 384 1637 4.3 67 14 102.3 7 3
23 Tampa Bay 403 1625 4.0 35 5 101.6 12 3
24 Detroit 409 1616 4.0 64 9 101.0 7 2
25 San Francisco 371 1600 4.3 80 12 100.0 5 2
26 Seattle 395 1566 4.0 62 7 97.9 11 3
27 Washington 391 1508 3.9 78 8 94.3 6 1
28 Arizona 365 1494 4.1 50 16 93.4 12 7
29 Chicago 373 1492 4.0 72 6 93.3 10 3
30 Houston 425 1475 3.5 32 13 92.2 11 6
31 San Diego 427 1423 3.3 36 17 88.9 2 2
32 Indianapolis 366 1294 3.5 45 16 80.9 4 2

AFC
Seed Team Record
1 Indianapolis (yz*) 14-2-0
2 San Diego (yz) 13-3-0

fontaine
01-07-2010, 10:01 AM
Rushing Yards Leaders
RK TEAM ATT YDS YDS/A LONG TD YDS/G FUM FUML
1 NY Jets 607 2756 4.5 71 21 172.3 9 4
2 Tennessee 499 2592 5.2 91 19 162.0 14 8
3 Carolina 525 2498 4.8 77 18 156.1 11 6
4 Miami 509 2231 4.4 68 22 139.4 11 5
5 Baltimore 468 2200 4.7 77 22 137.5 6 3
6 New Orleans 468 2106 4.5 55 21 131.6 6 4
7 Dallas 436 2103 4.8 66 14 131.4 6 3
8 Cleveland 498 2087 4.2 71 10 130.4 6 4
9 Cincinnati 505 2056 4.1 61 9 128.5 8 1
10 Jacksonville 447 2029 4.5 80 19 126.8 7 4
11 Kansas City 438 1929 4.4 76 8 120.6 14 5
12 New England 466 1921 4.1 55 19 120.1 7 5
13 Minnesota 467 1918 4.1 64 19 119.9 8 5
14 Green Bay 438 1885 4.3 62 20 117.8 3 0
15 Atlanta 451 1876 4.2 58 15 117.3 5 3
16 Buffalo 424 1867 4.4 47 6 116.7 6 3
17 NY Giants 443 1837 4.1 38 14 114.8 12 7
18 Denver 440 1836 4.2 45 9 114.8 6 4
19 Pittsburgh 428 1793 4.2 60 10 112.1 8 5
20 St. Louis 411 1784 4.3 58 4 111.5 7 4
21 Oakland 410 1701 4.1 60 7 106.3 8 5
22 Philadelphia 384 1637 4.3 67 14 102.3 7 3
23 Tampa Bay 403 1625 4.0 35 5 101.6 12 3
24 Detroit 409 1616 4.0 64 9 101.0 7 2
25 San Francisco 371 1600 4.3 80 12 100.0 5 2
26 Seattle 395 1566 4.0 62 7 97.9 11 3
27 Washington 391 1508 3.9 78 8 94.3 6 1
28 Arizona 365 1494 4.1 50 16 93.4 12 7
29 Chicago 373 1492 4.0 72 6 93.3 10 3
30 Houston 425 1475 3.5 32 13 92.2 11 6
31 San Diego 427 1423 3.3 36 17 88.9 2 2
32 Indianapolis 366 1294 3.5 45 16 80.9 4 2

LOL ROFL!

Apparently we have to go over this one more time for Popps!

bpc
01-07-2010, 10:04 AM
Well there is NO doubt that a HOF elite QB makes a huge difference. I mean, even Shanny had problems when he didn't have Elway. To be totally honest, you can change all kinds of things on your offense, schemes, players, coaches, but it all seems to even out for the good or bad depending on who's behind center. If you're lucky enough to have a good one, things usually go well for you. If you have a bad one, they go bad for you. And if you have a mediocre one, like we have, you usually end up mediocre, like we were.

lol

The problem I have with this is, McD is given genius status for his work with Cassell more so than Brady's 50 TD season. My opinion but I think many feel this way.

I don't really give him as much credit for Cassell as others because once again, he's throwing to two pro bowl WR's, among the best in the league at what they do.

Requiem
01-07-2010, 10:07 AM
I thought it sucked.

oubronco
01-07-2010, 10:24 AM
Wrong.

He threw to his second option when he needed to. If you recall, his second option had a couple of drops earlier in the game. It had nothing to do with options, it has to do with teams knowing you're going to throw on every single down. Even a "great" QB like Cutler got into trouble last year because we had to do the same thing.

Again, a couple of the biggest plays in the game were to his 2nd and 3rd options. But, when you tell a defense you're simply going to pass on every down, they're eventually going to poach a couple of INTs.

Point being, no matter who is back there... it's a ridiculous position for an offense to be in. If you can't run the ball, you can't win games late in the year.

How many times do we have to go over this around here?


doesn't seem to hurt the colts and manning

gtown
01-07-2010, 10:42 AM
It wasn't my favorite offense ever, but honestly if they could just fix their short yardage running plays, I feel like we could have easily won 3 more games this year.

And one of those games would have been against the Colts.

I agree that we need to fix the run game first, then the passing lanes will open more easily. Our WR corps is plenty talented enough.

Agree with this totally. Our Oline was just manhandled this year, vice Clady. I cannot count the times Moreno ran into the back of a blocker getting no push. Once we get power run blockers in there, we should be much better in both running and passing, and on third down.

kamakazi_kal
01-07-2010, 10:47 AM
Did you watch the year end presser with McD? What did you think about the lack details about what he was willing to say about Hillis but has been so willing to discuss regarding other players? I can't imagine how Hillis didn't earn the team's respect when McDaniels talked him up about his practice and training schedule on at least 2 occasions during press conferences. McD gave him one shot in the KC game and was sarcastic about it....like Hillis should have popped that play and made it happen. That was a horrible play call. What DC didin't know that play was coming. It's almost like he did it because he knew that journalist was going to ask.

forget it man ..... unless your rubbing Mcd's manhood your wrong in Popps book ...... "disscussions" with him are a waste of time.

kamakazi_kal
01-07-2010, 10:48 AM
Well there is NO doubt that a HOF elite QB makes a huge difference. I mean, even Shanny had problems when he didn't have Elway. To be totally honest, you can change all kinds of things on your offense, schemes, players, coaches, but it all seems to even out for the good or bad depending on who's behind center. If you're lucky enough to have a good one, things usually go well for you. If you have a bad one, they go bad for you. And if you have a mediocre one, like we have, you usually end up mediocre, like we were.

lol

Perfect example ...... the vikings ....

bpc
01-07-2010, 12:14 PM
Rushing Yards Leaders
RK TEAM ATT YDS YDS/A LONG TD YDS/G FUM FUML
1 NY Jets 607 2756 4.5 71 21 172.3 9 4
2 Tennessee 499 2592 5.2 91 19 162.0 14 8
3 Carolina 525 2498 4.8 77 18 156.1 11 6
4 Miami 509 2231 4.4 68 22 139.4 11 5
5 Baltimore 468 2200 4.7 77 22 137.5 6 3
6 New Orleans 468 2106 4.5 55 21 131.6 6 4
7 Dallas 436 2103 4.8 66 14 131.4 6 3
8 Cleveland 498 2087 4.2 71 10 130.4 6 4
9 Cincinnati 505 2056 4.1 61 9 128.5 8 1
10 Jacksonville 447 2029 4.5 80 19 126.8 7 4
11 Kansas City 438 1929 4.4 76 8 120.6 14 5
12 New England 466 1921 4.1 55 19 120.1 7 5
13 Minnesota 467 1918 4.1 64 19 119.9 8 5
14 Green Bay 438 1885 4.3 62 20 117.8 3 0
15 Atlanta 451 1876 4.2 58 15 117.3 5 3
16 Buffalo 424 1867 4.4 47 6 116.7 6 3
17 NY Giants 443 1837 4.1 38 14 114.8 12 7
18 Denver 440 1836 4.2 45 9 114.8 6 4
19 Pittsburgh 428 1793 4.2 60 10 112.1 8 5
20 St. Louis 411 1784 4.3 58 4 111.5 7 4
21 Oakland 410 1701 4.1 60 7 106.3 8 5
22 Philadelphia 384 1637 4.3 67 14 102.3 7 3
23 Tampa Bay 403 1625 4.0 35 5 101.6 12 3
24 Detroit 409 1616 4.0 64 9 101.0 7 2
25 San Francisco 371 1600 4.3 80 12 100.0 5 2
26 Seattle 395 1566 4.0 62 7 97.9 11 3
27 Washington 391 1508 3.9 78 8 94.3 6 1
28 Arizona 365 1494 4.1 50 16 93.4 12 7
29 Chicago 373 1492 4.0 72 6 93.3 10 3
30 Houston 425 1475 3.5 32 13 92.2 11 6
31 San Diego 427 1423 3.3 36 17 88.9 2 2
32 Indianapolis 366 1294 3.5 45 16 80.9 4 2

AFC
Seed Team Record
1 Indianapolis (yz*) 14-2-0
2 San Diego (yz) 13-3-0

Ouch. Stuck that one in the pooper.

Expect a classic popps spin coming to a forum near you!

snowspot66
01-07-2010, 12:56 PM
Why don't you guys pounding your chest about Indy and San Diego wait to see if they actually do anything in the playoffs. For all their trips this past decade only one ring among them. Running the ball and stopping the run is playoff football.

mr007
01-07-2010, 01:24 PM
Ouch. Stuck that one in the pooper.

Expect a classic popps spin coming to a forum near you!

If you own him with something like this, he simply doesn't respond. If he does, he'll somehow spin it to fit his BS agenda instead of admitting he was wrong. Pretty much same ole.

ScottXray
01-07-2010, 02:29 PM
As far as Indy and SD....yeah....they ran less, had crappy stats etc and ended up in the playoffs.

But much as I hate it Rivers IS a franchise QB....how many times did he win games late by passing his team downfield. And frankly his defense was much better than ours.

Same for Indy and the pay-me-a-ton. They are both QB's that make everyone around them better.

When you don't have a QB that changes the game, you DO have to be able to run. While Orton is capable of winning he doesn't change the game, won't take it over and doesn't carry his team. So Popps is mostly right.

Shanahans whole scheme depended on having that kind of QB. When we didn't find one to replace Elway we went through ten mostly winning years, without final success.

Hamrob
01-07-2010, 04:05 PM
I agree with Taco that Hillis could've really brought a great element to this offense and I just can't understand why McD didn't use him other than the theory that he had trouble picking up the offense (I believe Hillis' inability to lineup correctly caused the team to burn a time out against NE and that was the last we really saw of him).

During camp I had the feeling the offense was being coached more to not make mistakes than make plays and that carried over into the season. There seemed to be a tough balance between trying to set a new identity and play winning football. I'm hopeful that in year two together with an OL better suited for this offense, McD and Orton will integrate more of the principles of his offense (dominating on the OL, a heavy dose of intermediate routes and passes to the RB lulling the defense to sleep and going down field for the dagger).I think the thing with Hillis was the same for McDaniels as it was for Shanahan. He just doesn't project as a RB...but he's not a very good FB either. Shanny had to go through a whole stable or RB's before he found out what a tough runner Hillis was. I just don't think McDaniels believes he can be that guy. Hillis needs to go somewhere they'll give him a shot at RB. I think he would be a perfect compliment for a speed back and the entire NFL is running 2 RB's these days. I dont' think McD plans to keep him.

Hamrob
01-07-2010, 04:10 PM
Our offense was boring and predictable this year. It's amazing to me...how last year the Oline was the strength of our team and all of a sudden we blame this year's downfall on the Oline. Perhaps the scheme or the Coach deserve some of the blame?

- McDaniel's needs to open it up...he was ultra conservative
- Orton needs to go through his progressions...he only threw to his main target and if that person (Marshall ) wasn't open...he threw it away.
- We need our RB's to hit the holes quicker. Moreno is slow and tends to dance instead of putting his nose down and running straight ahead. We need some speeed to the outside where we can incorporate pitches back into our offense.
- I agree we need a WR who can go deep...in case Orton really can get it to him

gyldenlove
01-07-2010, 04:46 PM
Why don't you guys pounding your chest about Indy and San Diego wait to see if they actually do anything in the playoffs. For all their trips this past decade only one ring among them. Running the ball and stopping the run is playoff football.

Is it now? how many great running attacks went to the superbowl last year?

2008 rushing rank:

32nd: Arizona Cardinals
23rd: Pittsburgh Steelers

I can see how rushing offense is REALLY important in the playoffs and the regular season.

gyldenlove
01-07-2010, 04:55 PM
As far as Indy and SD....yeah....they ran less, had crappy stats etc and ended up in the playoffs.

But much as I hate it Rivers IS a franchise QB....how many times did he win games late by passing his team downfield. And frankly his defense was much better than ours.

Same for Indy and the pay-me-a-ton. They are both QB's that make everyone around them better.

When you don't have a QB that changes the game, you DO have to be able to run. While Orton is capable of winning he doesn't change the game, won't take it over and doesn't carry his team. So Popps is mostly right.

Shanahans whole scheme depended on having that kind of QB. When we didn't find one to replace Elway we went through ten mostly winning years, without final success.


Defense:

Pts/G

Chargers: 20.0
Broncos: 20.2
Colts: 19.2

Yds/G

Chargers: 326.9
Broncos: 315.0
Colts: 339.2

Turnovers:

Chargers: 14 INTs, 11 Fumble rec, 25 total
Broncos: 18 INTs, 13 Fumble rec, 31 total
Colts: 16 INTs, 10 Fumble rec, 26 total

Sacks:

Chargers: 35
Broncos: 39
Colts: 34

Tell again how much better the Chargers and Colts defense was than ours.

Popps
01-07-2010, 06:34 PM
Rushing Yards Leaders
RK TEAM ATT YDS YDS/A LONG TD YDS/G FUM FUML

31 San Diego 427 1423 3.3 36 17 88.9 2 2
32 Indianapolis 366 1294 3.5 45 16 80.9 4 2



Playoff teams:

Rushing Rank

Dallas 7
Philly 22
NY Jets 1
Cinci 9
Green Bay 14
Arizona 28
Baltimore 5
New England 12
New Orleans 6
Minnesota 13
San Diego 31
Indy 32


Wow, so... 50% of the top 10 rushing teams made the playoffs... as did over 50% of the top 15 rushing teams.


But, yea... let's pull the 2 examples that are the exception to the norm to make our point.

See, when you have to do **** like that, it means you're off the trail.

Save yourself the embarrassment next time and post the full list.

Better yet, see if you can get o job as an NFL analyst with your new philosophy, "the running game doesn't matter."

Popps
01-07-2010, 06:40 PM
If you own him with something like this, he simply doesn't respond. If he does, he'll somehow spin it to fit his BS agenda instead of admitting he was wrong. Pretty much same ole.

Yea, pulling 2 exceptions to the norm and avoiding the 50% of the top 10 that did make the playoffs isn't "owning" anything except a crappy post and a misinformed take.

It should also probably be noted that of the 3 teams that made it into the playoffs this year with weaker running game numbers... 2 of them have hall of fame QBs.

That might be just a wee bit of how those two exceptions to the rule managed that... ya think?

gyldenlove
01-07-2010, 06:48 PM
Playoff teams:

Rushing Rank

Dallas 7
Philly 22
NY Jets 1
Cinci 9
Green Bay 14
Arizona 28
Baltimore 5
New England 12
New Orleans 6
Minnesota 13
San Diego 31
Indy 32


Wow, so... 50% of the top 10 rushing teams made the playoffs... as did over 50% of the top 15 rushing teams.


But, yea... let's pull the 2 examples that are the exception to the norm to make our point.

See, when you have to do **** like that, it means you're off the trail.

Save yourself the embarrassment next time and post the full list.

Better yet, see if you can get o job as an NFL analyst with your new philosophy, "the running game doesn't matter."

8 of the top 10 passing teams made the playoffs, 8 of the top 10 run defense teams, and half of the top 15 pass defense teams.

Big surprise that good teams make the playoffs.

Fact is that a good rush offense doesn't get you in automatically, only half of the top 10 made it and fact is that a bad rush offense doesn't keep you out, the bottom 2 teams both made it, as top seeds no less.

Having a run game like ours is absolutely no excuse, even though you really really want it to be.

broncosteven
01-07-2010, 08:23 PM
Wrong.

He threw to his second option when he needed to. If you recall, his second option had a couple of drops earlier in the game. It had nothing to do with options, it has to do with teams knowing you're going to throw on every single down. Even a "great" QB like Cutler got into trouble last year because we had to do the same thing.

Again, a couple of the biggest plays in the game were to his 2nd and 3rd options. But, when you tell a defense you're simply going to pass on every down, they're eventually going to poach a couple of INTs.

Point being, no matter who is back there... it's a ridiculous position for an offense to be in. If you can't run the ball, you can't win games late in the year.

How many times do we have to go over this around here?

They were only down 6 with plenty of game left. Gaffney didn't get another catch after he was double teamed and taken away as an option.

Sure every team needs more talent, there isn't a team in the league that would not benefit from more talent and the ablity or need to run the ball more.

I think the biggest issue with this team is that they didn't play to the players strength.

Rex Ryan knew he had a young QB and some great backs so they relied on the run game and took the ball out of his rookied QB's hands. Indy and SD have 2 great QB's, they use the run to keep teams honest. The days of cold weather being an excuse not to execute a passing attack are over. It didn't stop NE vs Bills in the snow, they put up 50+.

I miss the days when we owned the LOS and had backs that could put up 200+ a game. I think those days are long gone.

This team is going to tell the NFL "This is what we do, stop us". So far they have.

Popps
01-07-2010, 10:28 PM
Having a run game like ours is absolutely no excuse, even though you really really want it to be.

Look, if you believe that having a subpar running game is the way to build a championship team, you just don't understand the history of the game.

We can't punch a ball in from the 3 yard line.

We can't pick up 1 yard on 3rd down when we need it.

We can't run the ball with any consistency, so we are stuck in pass-only mode.

If you want to try to convince some of the dip****s around here that none of that matters, have at it. Just don't ask me or the rest of the thinking NFL world to join you. Most people know better.

By the way, why would I "want" a subpar running game to be an "excuse."

Excuse for what?

That doesn't even make sense.

epicSocialism4tw
01-07-2010, 10:54 PM
I thought the offense was pathetic. We had some players that could contribute, but they weren't given the proper opportunity to. The scheme sucked. Magically a offensive line which gave up 12 sacks gave up, what, 40? Eddie Royal should be listed on the back of a milkcarton the way he was erased from playing offense.

This is not the offense I thought we were going to have, coming out the shoots with our newly minted offensive genius. Maybe the McD show in New England was really the Tom Brady and Pro Bowler's at WR show?

Its embarrassing, really. Instead of learning from what Shanahan (the offensive genius of this generation of coaches) did with a bunch of young players to maximize their ability and continue to grow them, McD forced his will on them and got very little in return. IMO, this shows the difference in class between McD and a good coach.

fontaine
01-08-2010, 07:46 AM
Its embarrassing, really. Instead of learning from what Shanahan (the offensive genius of this generation of coaches) did with a bunch of young players to maximize their ability and continue to grow them, McD forced his will on them and got very little in return. IMO, this shows the difference in class between McD and a good coach.

To be fair to McDaniels this is the ONLY real complaint I have also.

Yes, he's done a lot of good, but he made a real rookie mistake and thinking he could tear down the OL/running schemes and get better. He was flat out wrong.

We had more injuries to the offense last year and were still a better team on 3rd downs and in the red zone. If there's one thing McD needs to do this offseason is run a scheme that's best for the talent that's here, instead of asking small OL to power block 320 lb DTs and then abandon the running game in a heart beat.

jhat01
01-08-2010, 08:51 AM
To be fair to McDaniels this is the ONLY real complaint I have also.

Yes, he's done a lot of good, but he made a real rookie mistake and thinking he could tear down the OL/running schemes and get better. He was flat out wrong.

We had more injuries to the offense last year and were still a better team on 3rd downs and in the red zone. If there's one thing McD needs to do this offseason is run a scheme that's best for the talent that's here, instead of asking small OL to power block 320 lb DTs and then abandon the running game in a heart beat.

I have to agree. I think we could have ran the ZB pretty much exclusively and tried to find some bigger bodies this offseason. Pass blocking is pass blocking, that shouldn't have had an impact on his throwing offense. But what's done is done now. Bring in the Hogs!