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Rulon Velvet Jones
01-06-2010, 03:14 PM
Charlie Weis has agreed to become the offensive coordinator of the Kansas City Chiefs, according to team and league sources. Weis could be named to the position within the next 24 to 48 hours, the sources said.
Weis will be reunited with head coach Todd Haley, with whom he shared an office when both were young assistants with the New York Jets. Weis also will be reunited with Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli, who was the Patriots vice president of player personnel when Weis was the offensive coordinator for New Englalnd's three Super Bowl championships before Weis became the coach at Notre Dame.
Haley ran the offense in his first year with the Chiefs after dismissing offensive coordinator Chan Gailey. Haley had expressed a desire to find a coordinator so he could better manage his head coaching responsibilities.

tsiguy96
01-06-2010, 03:16 PM
will be interesting to see how matt cassel progresses under weis. hes still fat.

Rulon Velvet Jones
01-06-2010, 03:18 PM
Do the Chiefs get ragged for "trying to be like the Patriots" as much as the Broncos do?

PRBronco
01-06-2010, 03:19 PM
Bob, quick! Buy your new 52x30 pleated front khakis before he gets there and there's none left!

edit: Was than an appropriate amount of waist size exaggeration? I'm not sure how fat fat people are.

jhat01
01-06-2010, 03:21 PM
Bob, quick! Buy your new 52x30 pleated front khakis before he gets there and there's none left!

It's the pleats!!! Not to mention Romeo will be along shortly

supermanhr9
01-06-2010, 03:21 PM
Alright,,, man the AFC west is headed back to glory. Next year I predict these records (Chargers 12-4, Broncos, 10-6 (or better), Chiefs 9-7, Raiders, 0-16)

I know this might sound bad, but I miss the days where the AFC West was one of the most feared divisions. Now we are just laughing stocks, except the Chargers, as much as that pains me to say.

DHallblows
01-06-2010, 03:25 PM
Oh thank goodness...because I needed Weis to coach at another organization I hated in order to further my dislike for the man

bpc
01-06-2010, 03:26 PM
Good move for the Chiefs. Obviously Weis and Haley need to get along and both seems like they have their moments with attitude.

Bronco LB52
01-06-2010, 03:27 PM
I don't care how capable Weis is, he's a fat slob and a crummy person and that's enough reason to hate him. I'm glad he's not on my team.

Carmelo15
01-06-2010, 03:32 PM
I don't care how capable Weis is, he's a fat slob and a crummy person and that's enough reason to hate him. I'm glad he's not on my team.

LOL you guys are a bunch of weightists

broncofan
01-06-2010, 03:36 PM
Alright,,, man the AFC west is headed back to glory. Next year I predict these records (...Raiders, 0-16)

:spit:

kmartin575
01-06-2010, 03:42 PM
Do the Chiefs get ragged for "trying to be like the Patriots" as much as the Broncos do?

Not sure about outside of KC, but our own fans give the team alot of **** for doing it.

kmartin575
01-06-2010, 03:44 PM
Alright,,, man the AFC west is headed back to glory. Next year I predict these records (Chargers 12-4, Broncos, 10-6 (or better), Chiefs 9-7, Raiders, 0-16)

I know this might sound bad, but I miss the days where the AFC West was one of the most feared divisions. Now we are just laughing stocks, except the Chargers, as much as that pains me to say.

I don't see the Chiefs reaching 9-7 next year, hope i'm wrong though. Maybe 6-10 or 7-9. Of course we easily could have been 6-10 this year had we not crapped ourselves recently against Cleveland and Buffalo at home so who knows, next years schedule is easier.

TDmvp
01-06-2010, 03:45 PM
So i guess all the people who wanted him here can shut up now ...

Kid A
01-06-2010, 03:49 PM
Any rumors on the DC front for them? Everyone hates Pendergast, and I've heard Romeo Crennel is a very real possibility. If they land him and Weis they will certainly have a good/Patriot staff on paper.

ZachKC
01-06-2010, 04:02 PM
Do the Chiefs get ragged for "trying to be like the Patriots" as much as the Broncos do?

Yes but it mostly seems our own fan base doing the ragging.

ZachKC
01-06-2010, 04:03 PM
Any rumors on the DC front for them? Everyone hates Pendergast, and I've heard Romeo Crennel is a very real possibility. If they land him and Weis they will certainly have a good/Patriot staff on paper.

The word around KC ever since Haley was hired was that Crennel was going to be DC last year but could not due to his hip surgery.

Pendergast is not being fired but they seem to be careful not say he is going to be the DC next year.

ZachKC
01-06-2010, 05:00 PM
According to Schefter...

"It's likely to be a New England reunion: Now that Charlie Weis has agreed to work in Kansas City, Romeo Crennel will not be far behind."

ColoradoDarin
01-06-2010, 05:15 PM
Good move for them, stupid mullets

boltaneer
01-06-2010, 05:20 PM
Good move for them, stupid mullets

Until Haley fires Weis in the last week of August. ;)

SoCalBronco
01-06-2010, 05:23 PM
Bob...thoughts?

Florida_Bronco
01-06-2010, 05:25 PM
****, I wanted Weis.

ZachKC
01-06-2010, 05:36 PM
It is an upgrade...the offense was improving a lot even without and o-co so I am really excited at this experience that will be coming to the Chiefs this offseason.

Fantastic news.

400HZ
01-06-2010, 05:47 PM
So Haley got his playcalling duties revoked?

kmartin575
01-06-2010, 05:48 PM
Until Haley fires Weis in the last week of August. ;)

Haha, funny

DenverBrit
01-06-2010, 05:48 PM
Bob...thoughts?



He had one once, but it died of loneliness.

kmartin575
01-06-2010, 05:51 PM
So Haley got his playcalling duties revoked?

IMO it's probably his call to do this. Probably decided he should just concentrate on being the head coach. Plus it was Clark Hunt that somewhat forced Haley to keep Chan Gailey on his staff until finally before the season Haley made him realize it wasn't working. Not Haley's fault he wasn't allowed to bring in his own guy. Plus the Chiefs took so long to hire Pioli and the head coaching search took a while longer so by the time those two positions were in place most of the best coaches were already hired in other cities. Chiefs even had to go into the draft with the scouts from the Carl Peterson regime. Sometime after the draft they were all let go and now it looks like we are cleaning house with the staff now that we have time to hopefully make some decent hires. I know of two position coaches that have already been let go, Tim Krumrie on DL and the assistant offensive line coach.

Ziggy
01-06-2010, 06:06 PM
Weis will be the head coach in KC within 2 years.

broncosteven
01-06-2010, 06:37 PM
****, I wanted Weis.

I thought we had an OC?

Broncolorado
01-06-2010, 06:41 PM
Weis loves him some BBQ.How about Romeo?
Maybe they can do a Coors commercial together

jhat01
01-06-2010, 06:44 PM
I wonder what McDaniels thinks of this...Just further convelutes the familiarity thing with division foes I guess

strafen
01-06-2010, 06:50 PM
Bob, quick! Buy your new 52x30 pleated front khakis before he gets there and there's none left!

edit: Was than an appropriate amount of waist size exaggeration? I'm not sure how fat fat people are.lmao! ROFL!

strafen
01-06-2010, 06:52 PM
BTW, I think this was a brilliant move by the Chiefs.
This should help Cassel flourish in an offense he's familiar with...

watermock
01-06-2010, 06:57 PM
WTF?

You'd would think we shut them out at mile high last week.

We got blown out because Mashall demands double teams, our blocking is all ****ed and
Scheff was suspened.

Oh, and sluggo threw 2 pick 6's.

Oh, it as th blocking...THE BLOCKING WAS FINE LAST YEAR.

Popcorn Sutton
01-06-2010, 07:02 PM
Oh thank goodness...because I needed Weis to coach at another organization I hated in order to further my dislike for the man

:spit:

watermock
01-06-2010, 07:02 PM
Weiss is an excellnt addition to that team.

Bronco Boy
01-06-2010, 07:33 PM
I heard the decision was entirely barbecue based. Too bad Memphis doesn't have a team.

Florida_Bronco
01-06-2010, 08:12 PM
I thought we had an OC?

We do, but I would like to have someone experienced in the system for McD to use as a sounding board and to take some of the gameplanning burden off him.

jhat01
01-06-2010, 08:21 PM
WTF?

You'd would think we shut them out at mile high last week.

We got blown out because Mashall demands double teams, our blocking is all ****ed and
Scheff was suspened.

Oh, and sluggo threw 2 pick 6's.

Oh, it as th blocking...THE BLOCKING WAS FINE LAST YEAR.

Yeah that's it...you forgot one little bitty teeeny tiiiny thing though...if you give up 300 yards rushing, you will lose. Damn if only Scheffler was in the game...what could have been

24champ
01-06-2010, 08:49 PM
I thought we had an OC?

Yeah....we had an awesome offense this year. [/sarcasm]


Anyway nice hire for the cheaps.

montrose
01-06-2010, 09:09 PM
I'm actually really worried about the Chiefs, they got better and better as the season went along and a guy like Weis should do wonders for Cassell's development. With their talented cancer gone (LJ), and Pioli calling the shots - I can see them getting really good within a few years.

Dudeskey
01-06-2010, 09:20 PM
Will they fire him before next season starts?

400HZ
01-06-2010, 09:28 PM
I'm actually really worried about the Chiefs, they got better and better as the season went along and a guy like Weis should do wonders for Cassell's development. With their talented cancer gone (LJ), and Pioli calling the shots - I can see them getting really good within a few years.

What has Pioli done so far other than scavenge Patriot scraps? I haven't been impressed with him so far. Tyson Jackson was a moronic draft pick.

Florida_Bronco
01-06-2010, 09:46 PM
What has Pioli done so far other than scavenge Patriot scraps? I haven't been impressed with him so far. Tyson Jackson was a moronic draft pick.

Yeah, the Chiefs have a LONG ways to go before they're a legitimate threat.

Bob's your Information Minister
01-06-2010, 09:58 PM
"Bob is always wrong" takes another blow.

Bob's your Information Minister
01-06-2010, 10:03 PM
Bob...thoughts?

OK in all seriousness...I thought Haley did a fine job with the offense in the last month of the season. We averaged over 400 yards per game and some of that came without Bowe in the lineup.

I love Haley's offensive philosophy and he runs a very balanced offense. There's really nothing I dislike about how he calls a game aside from the occasional fourth-down blunder. He puts players in good situations and gets the most out of his talent, he spreads the ball around, all those good things.

BUT I think he should be removed as offensive coordinator because it was infringing on his ability to manage the game as a head coach. It was too much for one guy, especially seeing as how he was quarterbacks coach, too. Haley needs a fresh set of eyes on the opponent and the Chiefs' own gameplan every week to take some of the load off and tweak what needs to be refined.

I don't know if he'll continue to call plays but I would prefer he didn't. Obviously Weis has a great history with adapting to his personnel on offense. I think he can get a lot out of Charles as he's never really had a running back like him before, at least not in New England. Dillon was more of a mudder.

More than anything Weis can help Cassel...because I think it's widely accepted that Weis had a LARGE hand in Tom Brady's development.

KCStud
01-07-2010, 01:37 AM
What has Pioli done so far other than scavenge Patriot scraps? I haven't been impressed with him so far. Tyson Jackson was a moronic draft pick.

How the hell was Jackson a moronic draft pick? KC had no experienced 3-4 DE's or guys who could for sure play the position. And please don't ruin your football IQ by calling him a bust after 1 season.
Who was KC supposed to take? Curry and Monroe both struggled badly this year as well.

Florida_Bronco
01-07-2010, 01:43 AM
How the hell was Jackson a moronic draft pick? KC had no experienced 3-4 DE's or guys who could for sure play the position. And please don't ruin your football IQ by calling him a bust after 1 season.
Who was KC supposed to take? Curry and Monroe both struggled badly this year as well.

Picking Jackson that high was moronic.

jhat01
01-07-2010, 05:36 AM
How the hell was Jackson a moronic draft pick? KC had no experienced 3-4 DE's or guys who could for sure play the position. And please don't ruin your football IQ by calling him a bust after 1 season.
Who was KC supposed to take? Curry and Monroe both struggled badly this year as well.

**** dude..You stay around here long enough your football IQ wil be in the crapper..According to several dolts here, the Broncos entire draft last year was a bust after the preseason, hell McD was supposed to go with Simms after a couple preseason games too.

watermock
01-07-2010, 05:43 AM
Sorry, the Chiefs will challenge next year, and it won't be against the Broncos.

watermock
01-07-2010, 05:48 AM
According to several dolts here, the Broncos entire draft last year was a bust after the preseason, hell McD was supposed to go with Simms after a couple preseason games too.

Wow. Our draft WAS a bust, considering we had 3 first rounders and 5 in 3. WTF, are you slow?

We also picked 6 of 9 on offense. how many can you name?

jhat01
01-07-2010, 06:02 AM
Wow. Our draft WAS a bust, considering we had 3 first rounders and 5 in 3. WTF, are you slow?

We also picked 6 of 9 on offense. how many can you name?

Nope not slow..Just don't call drafts "busts" 10 minutes after they are over, or after one season. Reach in and pull your thong out of your ass wacko..

Broncos_OTM
01-07-2010, 06:07 AM
WTF?

You'd would think we shut them out at mile high last week.

We got blown out because Mashall demands double teams, our blocking is all ****ed and
Scheff was suspened.

Oh, and sluggo threw 2 pick 6's.

Oh, it as th blocking...THE BLOCKING WAS FINE LAST YEAR.

WTF are you talking about.

400HZ
01-07-2010, 08:03 AM
How the hell was Jackson a moronic draft pick? KC had no experienced 3-4 DE's or guys who could for sure play the position. And please don't ruin your football IQ by calling him a bust after 1 season.
Who was KC supposed to take? Curry and Monroe both struggled badly this year as well.

Well I watched every game that Jackson played at LSU for starters. If I had a #3 overall draft pick, I would have targetted a player who wasn't invisible on the field for 98% of the snaps. Even his measurables sucked. KC could have gotten any number of future game-breakers - Raji, Curry, Orakpo, Crabtree - but they went with a guy whose upside is average at best. You should be building a team around a #3 overall pick, not constantly making excuses for him.

boltaneer
01-07-2010, 08:43 AM
You don't spend the #3 overall pick and all that money on a 3-4 DE. Period.

Even if Jackson becomes just a 'good' player, it will still not even be close to worth the price they paid for him.

Bob's your Information Minister
01-07-2010, 10:44 AM
Sorry, the Chiefs will challenge next year, and it won't be against the Broncos.

Wow, pessimistic much?

The Chiefs need two new linebackers, a new defensive tackle, at least one new safety, a nickel corner and depth everywhere else if they want to think about fielding a good defense.

If they find two new offensive line starters they might field a good offense IF Cassel pulls his head out of his ass.

That's 7 starters in one offseason and free agency aint yielding ****.

They might go 7-9....

crazyhorse
01-07-2010, 10:51 AM
Well I watched every game that Jackson played at LSU for starters. If I had a #3 overall draft pick, I would have targetted a player who wasn't invisible on the field for 98% of the snaps. Even his measurables sucked. KC could have gotten any number of future game-breakers - Raji, Curry, Orakpo, Crabtree - but they went with a guy whose upside is average at best. You should be building a team around a #3 overall pick, not constantly making excuses for him.

A moronic pick is picking Rivers when Brees is your QB.

Xenos
01-07-2010, 01:39 PM
A moronic pick is picking Rivers when Brees is your QB.
First, I'd like to say that I'm happy that you're back and healthy again (hopefully?)

Now that has been addressed. Did you actually see remember how horrible Brees was in 2003? He was considered a bust at that point and would have lost the job to Rivers in 2004 if it wasn't for contract disputes. Besides, we also got Merriman, Kaeding, and some other players in that deal as well.

Black96WS6
01-07-2010, 02:01 PM
A moronic pick is picking Rivers when Brees is your QB.

Are you trying to be funny or are you serious?

2003 San Diego Chargers 11 11 205 356 57.6 2,108 5.9 11 15 21 178 67.5 21 84 4.0 0 5 3
2002 San Diego Chargers 16 16 320 526 60.8 3,284 6.2 17 16 24 180 76.9 38 130 3.4 1 2 0
2001 San Diego Chargers 1 0 15 27 55.6 221 8.2 1 0 2 12 94.8 2 18 9.0 0 2 0

Brees 2003 season - 11 TDs, 15 INTs, 67.5 QB rating. Benched for Doug Flutie.

Yeah, that just screams franchise QB.hmmm...

Previous year - 17 TDs/16 INTs...76.9 QB rating...another world-beating season...he actually regressed in '03...

400HZ
01-07-2010, 02:34 PM
A moronic pick is picking Rivers when Brees is your QB.

Right. Our team is still working to overcome that colossal mistake. :spit:

KCStud
01-07-2010, 02:45 PM
Well I watched every game that Jackson played at LSU for starters. If I had a #3 overall draft pick, I would have targetted a player who wasn't invisible on the field for 98% of the snaps. Even his measurables sucked. KC could have gotten any number of future game-breakers - Raji, Curry, Orakpo, Crabtree - but they went with a guy whose upside is average at best. You should be building a team around a #3 overall pick, not constantly making excuses for him.

The only player I could see that we needed the most there is Raji. Jackson was hands down the best 3-4 DE prospect in that draft and we needed him. Curry's problem is that his football IQ needs some work. He's out of position A LOT. That's why McClain will be a better draft pick. He's more NFL ready. Crabtree was a drama queen and Orakpo would have been nice, but he has a very good DL in front of him.
I admit I loved Raji and wanted him, but Jackson was a good pick for what the team needed. You build from the lines out and I'm not complaining. I think Jackson will end up being an above average 3-4 DE like Dorsey was this year.

KCStud
01-07-2010, 02:50 PM
Sorry, the Chiefs will challenge next year, and it won't be against the Broncos.

I would worry about your Broncos. Your interior OL i weak, Marshall will most likely be gone, Royal didn't do anything this year and Orton is your QB.

I could see a lot of trouble for you guys next season.

crazyhorse
01-07-2010, 08:41 PM
Right. Our team is still working to overcome that colossal mistake. :spit:

How do you overcome throwing away a #1 pick on a player you already had?

Yeah, I know, Brees sucked. Until he had time to develop. Then he was one of the best in the game. Thats what you do with draft picks....develop them. You dont dump them and spend the 1st pick in the draft on a replacement a couple years later.

Fact is, you didnt need the QB. Thusy a wasted #1 pick.

Chop it up any way that you want. But you cant tell me Brees is a bust.

Xenos
01-07-2010, 09:00 PM
How do you overcome throwing away a #1 pick on a player you already had?

Yeah, I know, Brees sucked. Until he had time to develop. Then he was one of the best in the game. Thats what you do with draft picks....develop them. You dont dump them and spend the 1st pick in the draft on a replacement a couple years later.

Fact is, you didnt need the QB. Thusy a wasted #1 pick.

Chop it up any way that you want. But you cant tell me Brees is a bust.
Hindsight is always fun. Brees was a 6'0 QB with the second weakest arm in the league after Chad Pennington when he first entered the league. Kyle Orton had more upside then him for goodness sake. And his 2003 season is probably one of the worst in QB history even for a second year starter. It was so bad that even Marty gave up on him and helped handpick Rivers. And right now, it looks about even with Rivers being the slightly better QB in crunch time.

Of course, the fact that Brees' career nearly ended in 2005 also helped prove the need for depth and that first round pick wasn't a waste. Either way we let go one pro bowler for another pro bowler. Don't be jealous because you have no QB. (Not to mention multiple picks like we did in that draft).

crazyhorse
01-08-2010, 04:20 AM
Hindsight is always fun. Brees was a 6'0 QB with the second weakest arm in the league after Chad Pennington when he first entered the league. Kyle Orton had more upside then him for goodness sake. And his 2003 season is probably one of the worst in QB history even for a second year starter. It was so bad that even Marty gave up on him and helped handpick Rivers. And right now, it looks about even with Rivers being the slightly better QB in crunch time.

Of course, the fact that Brees' career nearly ended in 2005 also helped prove the need for depth and that first round pick wasn't a waste. Either way we let go one pro bowler for another pro bowler. Don't be jealous because you have no QB. (Not to mention multiple picks like we did in that draft).

So we agree then.

As for the worst bust in NFL history, dont forget Leaf. Also, I wouldn't call getting Rivers by default on a Manning pissing contest hand picked.

DivineLegion
01-08-2010, 05:33 AM
How do you overcome throwing away a #1 pick on a player you already had?

Yeah, I know, Brees sucked. Until he had time to develop. Then he was one of the best in the game. Thats what you do with draft picks....develop them. You dont dump them and spend the 1st pick in the draft on a replacement a couple years later.

Fact is, you didnt need the QB. Thusy a wasted #1 pick.

Chop it up any way that you want. But you cant tell me Brees is a bust.

Sorry man reality is a funny thing, Drew Brees is a product of Sean Peyton's system. Just like Matt Cassel was a product of the New England system, and Brett Favre was a product of Brad Childres system (96-98, 09). Its amazing how these QBs have amazing years in various systems and when they move around success will either follow or fall to the wayside. Favre has had his 3 best seasons under Childres, Brees with Peyton seems HOF worthy, Jake Plummer with Shannahan (Cutler too) is breaking franchise records, Matt Cassel almost seamlessly steps in for Tom Brady with little hoddies guidance...the list goes on. Funny how Arizona starts 08' utilizing a lot of 5 step drops until Kurt Warner insists on them switching to more of a quick read offense and they explode, where do you think he learned that from...Mike Martz anybody?

I think there are very few exceptions to quarterbacks success being apart from their coordinators. The list begins obviously with Peyton Manning, followed by Aaron Rodgers, Carson Palmer, and Chad Pennington. I think these four guys just have an identity that separates them as leaders.

And yes, I would take Phillip Rivers of Drew Brees any day. The guy has the winning mentality you look for in a QB. He just doesn't quit.

crazyhorse
01-08-2010, 05:58 AM
Sorry man reality is a funny thing, Drew Brees is a product of Sean Peyton's system. Just like Matt Cassel was a product of the New England system, and Brett Favre was a product of Brad Childres system (96-98, 09). Its amazing how these QBs have amazing years in various systems and when they move around success will either follow or fall to the wayside. Favre has had his 3 best seasons under Childres, Brees with Peyton seems HOF worthy, Jake Plummer with Shannahan (Cutler too) is breaking franchise records, Matt Cassel almost seamlessly steps in for Tom Brady with little hoddies guidance...the list goes on. Funny how Arizona starts 08' utilizing a lot of 5 step drops until Kurt Warner insists on them switching to more of a quick read offense and they explode, where do you think he learned that from...Mike Martz anybody?

I think there are very few exceptions to quarterbacks success being apart from their coordinators. The list begins obviously with Peyton Manning, followed by Aaron Rodgers, Carson Palmer, and Chad Pennington. I think these four guys just have an identity that separates them as leaders.

And yes, I would take Phillip Rivers of Drew Brees any day. The guy has the winning mentality you look for in a QB. He just doesn't quit.

QBs and thier success is a direct reflection of O line and weapons. The system B.Favre is in is the the very same he has been in his whole carreer. Cassels success was a direct reflection of the players around him. Does the "system" matter? Sure it does. But more importantly, the players matter. The plays are the same. I'm not a big "buzz word" person. System is a buzz word used too often in the BB community. Most systems consist of the coaches finding what plays the player likes the most, that the player executes the best. Then call them.

If you are intimating that Brees is some sort of quitter, thats just dumb. I cant think of a QB that fires up his team more than Brees. I'm not a big Drew Brees lover or nothing like that. So Im not going to sing praises about the guy. But to minimize what he has done is self serving. The guys is a gamer. Just like he was when the Chargers let him go. River has done nothing that Brees hasn't done.

Thats reality.

400HZ
01-08-2010, 08:08 AM
How do you overcome throwing away a #1 pick on a player you already had?

Yeah, I know, Brees sucked. Until he had time to develop. Then he was one of the best in the game. Thats what you do with draft picks....develop them. You dont dump them and spend the 1st pick in the draft on a replacement a couple years later.

Fact is, you didnt need the QB. Thusy a wasted #1 pick.

Chop it up any way that you want. But you cant tell me Brees is a bust.

1) Rivers is better

2) The Chargers got Shawne Merriman, Nate Kaeding, and Roman Oben out of the pick in addition to Rivers.

400HZ
01-08-2010, 08:12 AM
So we agree then.

As for the worst bust in NFL history, dont forget Leaf. Also, I wouldn't call getting Rivers by default on a Manning pissing contest hand picked.

Drafting Sheli was a shrewd goddamn move. A lot of front offices would have just gotten timid and drafted Rivers #1.

400HZ
01-08-2010, 08:18 AM
The only player I could see that we needed the most there is Raji. Jackson was hands down the best 3-4 DE prospect in that draft and we needed him. Curry's problem is that his football IQ needs some work. He's out of position A LOT. That's why McClain will be a better draft pick. He's more NFL ready. Crabtree was a drama queen and Orakpo would have been nice, but he has a very good DL in front of him.
I admit I loved Raji and wanted him, but Jackson was a good pick for what the team needed. You build from the lines out and I'm not complaining. I think Jackson will end up being an above average 3-4 DE like Dorsey was this year.

There are players of Jackson's quality every year in the 3rd and 4th rounds. Wasting the #3 overall pick on him when your team was desperately in need of playmakers was just incredibly stupid. To me, that move alone solidifies Pioli as a dumbass.

oubronco
01-08-2010, 08:21 AM
Are you trying to be funny or are you serious?

2003 San Diego Chargers 11 11 205 356 57.6 2,108 5.9 11 15 21 178 67.5 21 84 4.0 0 5 3
2002 San Diego Chargers 16 16 320 526 60.8 3,284 6.2 17 16 24 180 76.9 38 130 3.4 1 2 0
2001 San Diego Chargers 1 0 15 27 55.6 221 8.2 1 0 2 12 94.8 2 18 9.0 0 2 0

Brees 2003 season - 11 TDs, 15 INTs, 67.5 QB rating. Benched for Doug Flutie.

Yeah, that just screams franchise QB.hmmm...

Previous year - 17 TDs/16 INTs...76.9 QB rating...another world-beating season...he actually regressed in '03...

And look at the QB he is now, wonder if Cutler can become a good QB

oubronco
01-08-2010, 08:23 AM
How do you overcome throwing away a #1 pick on a player you already had?

Yeah, I know, Brees sucked. Until he had time to develop. Then he was one of the best in the game. Thats what you do with draft picks....develop them. You dont dump them and spend the 1st pick in the draft on a replacement a couple years later.

Fact is, you didnt need the QB. Thusy a wasted #1 pick.

Chop it up any way that you want. But you cant tell me Brees is a bust.

Cutler anyone?

crazyhorse
01-08-2010, 11:17 AM
Drafting Sheli was a shrewd goddamn move. A lot of front offices would have just gotten timid and drafted Rivers #1.

Shrewd if you needed a QB. But you didn't. Just come to terms with it man. The pick was pissed away.

On the other hand. Roidman, IMO, has been a black eye to the franchise. Yeah he was good while roided out. But has been a chump since then. A bust if you will. The kicker? Well you can get good kickers in the 7th round. Hardly justifying trading 1st rounders to pick up a kicker. But he is a good kicker. I like him.

Its obvious you grade on a curve. We'll just leave it at that and move on.

crazyhorse
01-08-2010, 11:21 AM
There are players of Jackson's quality every year in the 3rd and 4th rounds. Wasting the #3 overall pick on him when your team was desperately in need of playmakers was just incredibly stupid. To me, that move alone solidifies Pioli as a dumbass.

Our team was in desperate need of foundation players. Linemen on both sides of the ball. Because we purged a few 4-3 players from our defense, it only magnified the need to build on the defensive side for the new 3-4.

Surely you realize you build a team from the inside out, not the outside in.

Stop trolling.

kappys
01-08-2010, 11:28 AM
You don't spend the #3 overall pick and all that money on a 3-4 DE. Period.

Even if Jackson becomes just a 'good' player, it will still not even be close to worth the price they paid for him.

Isn't that where Richard Seymour was picked?

400HZ
01-08-2010, 11:40 AM
Shrewd if you needed a QB. But you didn't. Just come to terms with it man. The pick was pissed away.

On the other hand. Roidman, IMO, has been a black eye to the franchise. Yeah he was good while roided out. But has been a chump since then. A bust if you will. The kicker? Well you can get good kickers in the 7th round. Hardly justifying trading 1st rounders to pick up a kicker. But he is a good kicker. I like him.

Its obvious you grade on a curve. We'll just leave it at that and move on.

So if I understand you right,

San Diego pissed away their top pick on:

1) One of the top 3 quarterbacks in the league (1st round)
2) A guy who got 40 sacks his first 3 years (1st round)
3) A kicker who is statistically the most accurate of all time (3rd round)
4) A veteran starting left tackle (5th round)

Kansas City wisely invested their #3 overall on:

1) A thoroughly mediocre interior linemen with no upside
2) .


Wow, what other insight do you have? I'm dying to hear it.

400HZ
01-08-2010, 11:45 AM
Our team was in desperate need of foundation players. Linemen on both sides of the ball. Because we purged a few 4-3 players from our defense, it only magnified the need to build on the defensive side for the new 3-4.

Surely you realize you build a team from the inside out, not the outside in.

Stop trolling.

That's debatable when discussing top draft picks. Especially on a team devoid of quality playmakers, and even more so when the player picked is only a marginal upgrade over a scrub vet like Boone.

KCStud
01-08-2010, 12:28 PM
There are players of Jackson's quality every year in the 3rd and 4th rounds. Wasting the #3 overall pick on him when your team was desperately in need of playmakers was just incredibly stupid. To me, that move alone solidifies Pioli as a dumbass.

LMAO there were not any 3-4 DE's who could hold a candle to Jackson's potential in that draft and we both know that.

KCStud
01-08-2010, 12:29 PM
That's debatable when discussing top draft picks. Especially on a team devoid of quality playmakers, and even more so when the player picked is only a marginal upgrade over a scrub vet like Boone.

So you're judging Jackson after only one season compared to a vet? Clearly you know how what you're talking about Ha!

400HZ
01-08-2010, 12:48 PM
LMAO there were not any 3-4 DE's who could hold a candle to Jackson's potential in that draft and we both know that.

:bs:

400HZ
01-08-2010, 12:50 PM
So you're judging Jackson after only one season compared to a vet? Clearly you know how what you're talking about Ha!

Haha, ya, expecting the 3rd overall pick in the draft to outperform a scrub-level journeymen. Crazy!!!

http://gurugilbert.com/wp-content/old-man-laughing.jpg

boltaneer
01-08-2010, 01:41 PM
Isn't that where Richard Seymour was picked?

Wasn't Seymour drafted as a 4-3 DT, who they thought would be versatile enough to play a 3-4 DE as well?

Maybe you can say the same about Jackson and even Dorsey. I guess the problem I have with those picks is not the players they picked but how they're using them.

Wow, I just looked up their contract numbers. Jackson and Dorsey have a total of $54 million guaranteed! Unbelievable!

Why KC switched to a 3-4 is beyond me. Their d-line could be scary in a 4-3, had they kept Jared Allen at DE and Dorsey and Jackson as their two DTs. Instead, their front seven is garbage.

Inkana7
01-08-2010, 02:06 PM
LMAO there were not any 3-4 DE's who could hold a candle to Jackson's potential in that draft and we both know that.

I seem to remember Ziggy Hood playing quite well towards the end of this season..

elsid13
01-08-2010, 02:19 PM
Isn't that where Richard Seymour was picked?

Seymour was #6 in his draft. Pryce was 28th in that same draft

400HZ
01-08-2010, 03:35 PM
I seem to remember Ziggy Hood playing quite well towards the end of this season..

Hood is going to be a stud. I pined for him this last draft even though San Diego at #16 would have been severely reaching. Pittsburgh brings along their linemen slowly, but he got like 4 sacks in the preseason and was disruptive. A word that will never be used to describe Jackson.

KCStud
01-08-2010, 07:05 PM
Wasn't Seymour drafted as a 4-3 DT, who they thought would be versatile enough to play a 3-4 DE as well?

Maybe you can say the same about Jackson and even Dorsey. I guess the problem I have with those picks is not the players they picked but how they're using them.

Wow, I just looked up their contract numbers. Jackson and Dorsey have a total of $54 million guaranteed! Unbelievable!

Why KC switched to a 3-4 is beyond me. Their d-line could be scary in a 4-3, had they kept Jared Allen at DE and Dorsey and Jackson as their two DTs. Instead, their front seven is garbage.

Apparently you haven't watched many Chiefs games this year. Dorsey looked much better than last season and his presence was felt. It was very noticeable when he didn't play (Jerome Harrison running wild on us). And how about Tamba Hali? He had his best year as a 3-4 OLB. He drew multiple holding calls and had a ton of QB pressures.
I think Jackson will be an above average DE. When you look at the other options we had at the time (Curry, Raji, Monroe), you will see those guys struggling just as much as Jackson.

Btw-I find it hillarious that you dog KC about reaching for Jackson when your team made a major reach for English. Tamba was better than Merroidman and English, but yet we have a "garbage" front 7 :spit:

crazyhorse
01-08-2010, 07:16 PM
So if I understand you right,

San Diego pissed away their top pick on:

1) One of the top 3 quarterbacks in the league (1st round)
2) A guy who got 40 sacks his first 3 years (1st round)
3) A kicker who is statistically the most accurate of all time (3rd round)
4) A veteran starting left tackle (5th round)

Kansas City wisely invested their #3 overall on:

1) A thoroughly mediocre interior linemen with no upside
2) .


Wow, what other insight do you have? I'm dying to hear it.

You recieved those picks for Manning. The 1st pick was wasted on Rivers before you traded. You already had a top QB on the roster. Its not that hard to understand. You were minus a 1st round pick immediately because it was already picked or you. You come off like you needed Rivers. I'm telling you that you didn't.

Let me make it easier for you. You want to make fun of a bad draft pick like the Chargers are immune. You guy made the worst pick of all time in the 1st.

Ryan Leaf. Now.....shut up.ROFL! :clown: :strong:

The difference is, ours has potential to be a good player. Yours is a historical laughing stock.

KCStud
01-08-2010, 07:18 PM
Oh and 400HZ, I hope you and the rest of your Chugger fans enjoy the rest of what Marty built because we all know Norv isn't half the coach or talent evaluator that Marty is.

Look your drafts when Norv took over. The talent level goes way downhill.

Bronx33
01-08-2010, 07:18 PM
"Bob is always wrong" takes another blow.



Can you fit another blow into your busy schedule?

TheDave
01-08-2010, 07:22 PM
You recieved those picks for Manning. The 1st pick was wasted on Rivers before you traded. You already had a top QB on the roster. Its not that hard to understand. You were minus a 1st round pick immediately because it was already picked or you. You come off like you needed Rivers. I'm telling you that you didn't.

Let me make it easier for you. You want to make fun of a bad draft pick like the Chargers are immune. You guy made the worst pick of all time in the 1st.

Ryan Leaf. Now.....shut up.ROFL! :clown: :strong:

The difference is, ours has potential to be a good player. Yours is a historical laughing stock.

Is Ryan Leaf still the worst or has Jafatass Russel replaced him? I actually think Jafatass is now the worst pick EVER.

Just a thought... carry on.

400HZ
01-08-2010, 07:28 PM
You recieved those picks for Manning. The 1st pick was wasted on Rivers before you traded. You already had a top QB on the roster. Its not that hard to understand. You were minus a 1st round pick immediately because it was already picked or you. You come off like you needed Rivers. I'm telling you that you didn't.

Let me make it easier for you. You want to make fun of a bad draft pick like the Chargers are immune. You guy made the worst pick of all time in the 1st.

Ryan Leaf. Now.....shut up.ROFL! :clown: :strong:

The difference is, ours has potential to be a good player. Yours is a historical laughing stock.

I guess we just have different opinions on what a successful draft entails. To me, turning one pick into three Pro Bowlers is categorized as successful. And don't try and act like you saw anything in Brees during 2003. He was terrible.

crazyhorse
01-08-2010, 07:31 PM
Is Ryan Leaf still the worst or has Jafatass Russel replaced him? I actually think Jafatass is now the worst pick EVER.

Just a thought... carry on.Not sure.

But Leaf had a game in Arrowhead where he completed 1 of 15 w/3 picks I think. Ive never heard of a player who had more picks than completions in a game. Not sure on the numbers. Its been awhile. But it was unreal.

400HZ
01-08-2010, 07:34 PM
Oh and 400HZ, I hope you and the rest of your Chugger fans enjoy the rest of what Marty built because we all know Norv isn't half the coach or talent evaluator that Marty is.

Look your drafts when Norv took over. The talent level goes way downhill.

1) I don't think Norv is even allowed into the draft room
2) The Marty era produced better players because we were always picking high
3) The 2008 draft sucked, but 2007 and 2009 are shaping up quite nicely

crazyhorse
01-08-2010, 07:41 PM
I guess we just have different opinions on what a successful draft entails. To me, turning one pick into three Pro Bowlers is categorized as successful. And don't try and act like you saw anything in Brees during 2003. He was terrible.

I like the kicker. Not Merriman. Rivers is good no doubt. But another player in the 1st round and Brees would have been, lets say, more successful.

Most points are debateable. The main thing is that you are happy with what your team is doing. They have been doing well the last few years. Thats what happens when you have top 5 picks for 10 years or so.

In any event, the point I am trying to make is, Charger fans are in no position to be making fun of any other teams 1st round draft picks. Considering you let Brees go before he had a chance to develop, you're in no position to judge whether a draft or a player drafted is successful one year in or not either. These are facts and are not debateable.

400HZ
01-08-2010, 07:56 PM
I like the kicker. Not Merriman. Rivers is good no doubt. But another player in the 1st round and Brees would have been, lets say, more successful.

Most points are debateable. The main thing is that you are happy with what your team is doing. They have been doing well the last few years. Thats what happens when you have top 5 picks for 10 years or so.

In any event, the point I am trying to make is, Charger fans are in no position to be making fun of any other teams 1st round draft picks. Considering you let Brees go before he had a chance to develop, you're in no position to judge whether a draft or a player drafted is successful one year in or not either. These are facts and are not debateable.

At least with Leaf they swung for the fences, even if it was a horrible, mind-scarring whiff. Tyson Jackson was more of a two strike foul bunt.

crazyhorse
01-08-2010, 08:00 PM
At least with Leaf they swung for the fences, even if it was a horrible, mind-scarring whiff. Tyson Jackson was more of a two strike foul bunt.

You'd come off looking smarter if you just would have conceeded the point. But yeah, this is another way to go.8')

Bronx33
01-08-2010, 08:00 PM
At least with Leaf they swung for the fences, even if it was a horrible, mind-scarring whiff. Tyson Jackson was more of a two strike foul bunt.



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kmartin575
01-08-2010, 08:07 PM
Wasn't Seymour drafted as a 4-3 DT, who they thought would be versatile enough to play a 3-4 DE as well?

Maybe you can say the same about Jackson and even Dorsey. I guess the problem I have with those picks is not the players they picked but how they're using them.

Wow, I just looked up their contract numbers. Jackson and Dorsey have a total of $54 million guaranteed! Unbelievable!

Why KC switched to a 3-4 is beyond me. Their d-line could be scary in a 4-3, had they kept Jared Allen at DE and Dorsey and Jackson as their two DTs. Instead, their front seven is garbage.

Front 7 is garbage? Dorsey might be wasting his talent at 3-4 DE but he vastly improved from his rookie season and looks like a solid player. Alex Magee made some plays as a backup DE. Jackson had a pretty bad year but he's a rookie, still time to turn it around. Tamba Hali had a solid season at OLB (never seen a player held as many times as he was). Sure the front 7 isn't anything to brag about but there are at least some pieces in place.

400HZ
01-08-2010, 08:12 PM
You'd come off looking smarter if you just would have conceeded the point. But yeah, this is another way to go.8')

You're talking about looking smart? Your argument is that a draft choice that was leveraged into 3 Pro Bowl players was a dumb decision. No matter how many snide comments you make about it, your position is beyond stupid.

crazyhorse
01-08-2010, 08:22 PM
You're talking about looking smart? Your argument is that a draft choice that was leveraged into 3 Pro Bowl players was a dumb decision. No matter how many snide comments you make about it, your position is beyond stupid.

No. I said you didn't need a QB. That picking up a QB with "that pick" was a waste. I said you're in no position to judge. I'm right. Never said anything about the other players. The rest is what you've added to try and make a point you somehow needed a QB. You still havent done that. You're welcome to keep trying though.

You should pay closer attention. I reccommend you go back and read the thread again. BTW, you started the snide comments. Dont start crying now.

Good night. It's past my bed time. No hard feelings, bud. If you like it....I love it. I know you're a fan of the Chargers. I expect a homered up version of events from you. It's cool.

Peace.

400HZ
01-08-2010, 08:36 PM
No. I said you didn't need a QB. That picking up a QB with "that pick" was a waste. I said you're in no position to judge. I'm right. Never said anything about the other players. The rest is what you've added to try and make a point you somehow needed a QB. You still havent done that. You're welcome to keep trying though.

You should pay closer attention. I reccommend you go back and read the thread again. BTW, you started the snide comments. Dont start crying now.

Good night. It's past my bed time. No hard feelings, bud. If you like it....I love it. I know you're a fan of the Chargers. I expect a homered up version of events from you. It's cool.

Peace.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2708189&postcount=59

I guess you skipped over it after your feathers got all ruffled.

By the way, if your crystal ball told you that Brees was going to become something legit then I'm curious to know what it says about your man Tyson.

Xenos
01-08-2010, 10:05 PM
So we agree then.

As for the worst bust in NFL history, dont forget Leaf. Also, I wouldn't call getting Rivers by default on a Manning pissing contest hand picked.
That wasn't the argument that you were having with 400Hz or why you were wrong. We know now that Brees is a pro bowler, not when we drafted his replacement. The issue behind this argument is how our use of the first round pick was better than yours. You could have gotten Raji or traded down for more draft picks is one example.

Xenos
01-08-2010, 10:12 PM
You recieved those picks for Manning. The 1st pick was wasted on Rivers before you traded. You already had a top QB on the roster. Its not that hard to understand. You were minus a 1st round pick immediately because it was already picked or you. You come off like you needed Rivers. I'm telling you that you didn't.

Let me make it easier for you. You want to make fun of a bad draft pick like the Chargers are immune. You guy made the worst pick of all time in the 1st.

Ryan Leaf. Now.....shut up.ROFL! :clown: :strong:

The difference is, ours has potential to be a good player. Yours is a historical laughing stock.
We didn't draft Rivers. We drafted Manning and then traded the Giants for Rivers, some future picks, and players in return. And if you honestly thought Brees was going to be a pro bowler after his 2003 season, I have some beach front property I want to sell you in Montana.

boltaneer
01-08-2010, 10:13 PM
Apparently you haven't watched many Chiefs games this year. Dorsey looked much better than last season and his presence was felt. It was very noticeable when he didn't play (Jerome Harrison running wild on us). And how about Tamba Hali? He had his best year as a 3-4 OLB. He drew multiple holding calls and had a ton of QB pressures.
I think Jackson will be an above average DE. When you look at the other options we had at the time (Curry, Raji, Monroe), you will see those guys struggling just as much as Jackson.

I'm talking about your defense as a whole. They were TERRIBLE this year. You can prop up Hali and spin it all you want but the core of your defense didn't get the job done. 29th in points allowed and 30th in yards. That's garbage to me.

If you're satisfied with Jackson being just an "above average" DE, then good for you I guess. But what they spent on him and the money they put in his pocket, he needs to be the best 3-4 DE in the history of the game to justify that.

Btw-I find it hillarious that you dog KC about reaching for Jackson when your team made a major reach for English.

Again, I only question the pick because of how high he was picked and thus how much money he was paid and how they are using him. And there's a HUGE difference in money between the third and sixteenth pick.

You break the bank for pass rushers, not guys whose job it is to occupy linemen.

Tamba was better than Merroidman and English, but yet we have a "garbage" front 7 :spit:

I'm hoping you're referring to this season with this statement. Merriman is coming off of major knee surgery and has been playing through a variety of other injuries so his performance has been down.

English hasn't been playing that bad. The sack numbers aren't there but he has been close many times especially late in the year. But he is a rook, so he gets a pass from me for now.

Like I was alluding to earlier, I don't really question the talent at this point. I believe draft picks should get more than 1-2 years before you start calling them a bust. And I'm saying that I think you could have a scary good front four with Allen, Hali, Jackson and Dorsey.

It's your front office and Haley who are misusing your front seven.

Your defense wasn't nearly as bad when Herm was there and before King Carl foolishly got rid of the best player on your team.

Xenos
01-08-2010, 10:14 PM
I like the kicker. Not Merriman. Rivers is good no doubt. But another player in the 1st round and Brees would have been, lets say, more successful.

Most points are debateable. The main thing is that you are happy with what your team is doing. They have been doing well the last few years. Thats what happens when you have top 5 picks for 10 years or so.

In any event, the point I am trying to make is, Charger fans are in no position to be making fun of any other teams 1st round draft picks. Considering you let Brees go before he had a chance to develop, you're in no position to judge whether a draft or a player drafted is successful one year in or not either. These are facts and are not debateable.
Strange. We haven't had a top 5 pick in a long time (the last time we even picked in the top 15 was in 2004), and yet manage to be successful with a lot of our draft picks. What's the Chief's excuse for actually having a top 5 picks for the last few years.

Xenos
01-08-2010, 10:17 PM
Front 7 is garbage? Dorsey might be wasting his talent at 3-4 DE but he vastly improved from his rookie season and looks like a solid player. Alex Magee made some plays as a backup DE. Jackson had a pretty bad year but he's a rookie, still time to turn it around. Tamba Hali had a solid season at OLB (never seen a player held as many times as he was). Sure the front 7 isn't anything to brag about but there are at least some pieces in place.
All I have to say is thank God you guys changed your defensive scheme, because Rivers has his best year against you guys this season. He always seemed to have problems against Herm's Cover Two defense.

boltaneer
01-08-2010, 10:30 PM
All I have to say is thank God you guys changed your defensive scheme, because Rivers has his best year against you guys this season. He always seemed to have problems against Herm's Cover Two defense.

As it turns out, Herm may not be Head Coach material but the guy knows his defense.

His team, whether it was the Jets or the Chiefs either beat the Bolts or gave them fits, even with lesser teams. I for one was very happy when the Chiefs fired him.

Xenos
01-08-2010, 10:41 PM
Apparently you haven't watched many Chiefs games this year. Dorsey looked much better than last season and his presence was felt. It was very noticeable when he didn't play (Jerome Harrison running wild on us). And how about Tamba Hali? He had his best year as a 3-4 OLB. He drew multiple holding calls and had a ton of QB pressures.
I think Jackson will be an above average DE. When you look at the other options we had at the time (Curry, Raji, Monroe), you will see those guys struggling just as much as Jackson.

Btw-I find it hillarious that you dog KC about reaching for Jackson when your team made a major reach for English. Tamba was better than Merroidman and English, but yet we have a "garbage" front 7 :spit:
It's not even about picking a 3-4 DE. I understand the importance of the trenches. But I also see the importance of getting more value especially when you're in the top 5. Hell, the freaking Browns were able to trade down so many times. I know you could have gotten some good guys in the trenches.

Even if you didn't get a 3-4 DE, you could have gotten a OT to protect Cassell (like Oher or Vollmer), as well as some quality centers (like Mack, or Caldwell), and some later 3-4 DE that have shown the ability to do well (like Myron Pryor picked in the fifth round by the Patriots and who is starting ahead of Ron Brace). Or heck, even our Udfa Nosetackle Ogemdi Nwagbuo would have had better value. (since he can play NT and 3-4 DE and has had more impact than Jackson this year).

Xenos
01-08-2010, 10:43 PM
1) I don't think Norv is even allowed into the draft room
2) The Marty era produced better players because we were always picking high
3) The 2008 draft sucked, but 2007 and 2009 are shaping up quite nicely
Oh he is. Why do you think we didn't draft a single OT in this year's draft. It's because Norv and the coaching staff were high on Jeromey Clary. And they were right for the most part.

KCStud
01-09-2010, 12:18 AM
I'm talking about your defense as a whole. They were TERRIBLE this year. You can prop up Hali and spin it all you want but the core of your defense didn't get the job done. 29th in points allowed and 30th in yards. That's garbage to me.

If you're satisfied with Jackson being just an "above average" DE, then good for you I guess. But what they spent on him and the money they put in his pocket, he needs to be the best 3-4 DE in the history of the game to justify that.



Again, I only question the pick because of how high he was picked and thus how much money he was paid and how they are using him. And there's a HUGE difference in money between the third and sixteenth pick.

You break the bank for pass rushers, not guys whose job it is to occupy linemen.



I'm hoping you're referring to this season with this statement. Merriman is coming off of major knee surgery and has been playing through a variety of other injuries so his performance has been down.

English hasn't been playing that bad. The sack numbers aren't there but he has been close many times especially late in the year. But he is a rook, so he gets a pass from me for now.

Like I was alluding to earlier, I don't really question the talent at this point. I believe draft picks should get more than 1-2 years before you start calling them a bust. And I'm saying that I think you could have a scary good front four with Allen, Hali, Jackson and Dorsey.

It's your front office and Haley who are misusing your front seven.

Your defense wasn't nearly as bad when Herm was there and before King Carl foolishly got rid of the best player on your team.

The damage was done before Pioli even got there. Allen was King Carl's fault, so I don't blame this regime at all.

And what you are seeing is not garbage. What you are seeing is a bunch of players that went from a different system to a 3-4 for the first time. The reason KC's defense was so bad was because of age, a lack of talent, and most of all no veteran leadership. It takes more than one year to build a good 3-4 defense.

crazyhorse
01-09-2010, 06:25 AM
No. I said you didn't need a QB. That picking up a QB with "that pick" was a waste.

You should pay closer attention. I reccommend you go back and read the thread again.

Peace.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2708189&postcount=59

I guess you skipped over it after your feathers got all ruffled.

A moronic pick is picking Rivers when Brees is your QB.

Your point?

BTW, my crystal ball says...........you're in no position to qualify last years draft class.

400HZ
01-09-2010, 07:24 AM
Your point?

BTW, my crystal ball says...........you're in no position to qualify last years draft class.

Come on. You are just playing stupid now. I'll lay it out one more time and if the obvious flaw in your argument still isn't apparent to you then I'll just stop wasting my time.

2003 Drew Brees (3rd year in league) - 2,108 yards 11 TD 15 INT 5.9 YPA
This is what Brees produced the year before his replacement was drafted. He was benched for and outperformed by 41 year old Doug Flutie. When Brees was being assessed by Chargers management in 2003, they had access to this information. They did not have access to information from the years 2004-2010, which is what your convoluted argument is based on.

You recieved those picks for Manning. The 1st pick was wasted on Rivers before you traded. You already had a top QB on the roster.

The pick was pissed away

Just for fun, let's play your stupid game and pretend that San Diego's front office had the same amazing powers of prognostication that you do. A draft pick (or draft day trade) that produces a top 3 quarterback in the league is a good pick, regardless of need. If Indianapolis drafts a future top 3 quarterback next year, then it is a good goddamn pick even though they already have an awesome quarterback. San Diego drafted a top 3 quarterback when the only person in the world who Drew Brees was impressing was apparently you. I know you're grasping it, even if you want to pretend that you're not.

boltaneer
01-09-2010, 09:29 AM
The damage was done before Pioli even got there. Allen was King Carl's fault, so I don't blame this regime at all.

And what you are seeing is not garbage. What you are seeing is a bunch of players that went from a different system to a 3-4 for the first time. The reason KC's defense was so bad was because of age, a lack of talent, and most of all no veteran leadership. It takes more than one year to build a good 3-4 defense.

You're still missing my point.

Why did KC go to a 3-4 in the first place? They had just drafted Dorsey, who a lot of people were saying could develop into a Warren Sapp type of player. Remember everyone going gaga over KC's draft that year because Dorsey "fell" right into their laps?

Now the guy is just occupying blockers in a 3-4. Sad.

Jackson is likely a better fit in a 3-4 but hell if I would want my team spending a top five pick two years in a row on that position.

KC is still missing the most important piece of their defense and that's the NT. Good luck with that.

Their defense is still at least two years away from becoming anything IMO, and that's being optimistic.

It is unfair to blame the current regime for Jared Allen. A lot of the blame has to fall on Clark Hunt though. I just look at what KC has done as a whole in the past few years and I just scratch my head. But I'm glad at the same time. Like I said, if they stuck with things, they could have had an imposing defense by now.

crazyhorse
01-09-2010, 10:56 AM
If Indianapolis drafts a future top 3 quarterback next year, then it is a good goddamn pick even though they already have an awesome quarterback.

If Indy drafts a QB in the 1st round, its a wasted pick.

Bob's your Information Minister
01-09-2010, 11:01 AM
You're still missing my point.

Why did KC go to a 3-4 in the first place? .

Because our GM is Scott Pioli.

DHallblows
01-09-2010, 11:28 AM
If Indy drafts a QB in the 1st round, its a wasted pick.

How so? Staying behind Brett for like 4 or whatever years did wonders for developing Aaron in Green Bay.

crazyhorse
01-09-2010, 11:35 AM
How so? Staying behind Brett for like 4 or whatever years did wonders for developing Aaron in Green Bay.

After 4 years on the bench, a drafted QB would be up for a new contract. Tell me how smart it is to draft a QB, sit him for 4 years w/pay, only to have to sign a QB. Rodgers is the exception not the rule.

DHallblows
01-09-2010, 11:45 AM
After 4 years on the bench, a drafted QB would be up for a new contract. Tell me how smart it is to draft a QB, sit him for 4 years w/pay, only to have to sign a QB. Rodgers is the exception not the rule.

I suppose. But that many years behind Favre or Manning will make any decent QB good. So I guess I see what you mean by drafting a #10 QB or something any paying him a ridiculous amount of money for that length of time. But if they're drafting someone in the 2nd round, it'd be a good investment (assuming there's a QB remotely projected to go around then)

boltaneer
01-09-2010, 12:58 PM
Because our GM is Scott Pioli.

Does he not know what a 4-3 defense is?

Bob's your Information Minister
01-09-2010, 01:23 PM
Does he not know what a 4-3 defense is?

I'm sure he does, but he, like every disciple of the Parcells/Belichick tree, are 3-4 believers.

400HZ
01-10-2010, 08:10 AM
If Indy drafts a QB in the 1st round, its a wasted pick.

Way to bow out.

400HZ
01-10-2010, 08:12 AM
Does he not know what a 4-3 defense is?

Like everyone else from New England, he has no clue how to make his own evaluations or come up with his own ideas. Just do what Bill does.

boltaneer
01-10-2010, 09:30 AM
It takes more than one year to build a good 3-4 defense.

Miami's defense was bad in 2007 and they switched to a 3-4 in 2008 and became a top ten defense (though their defense went downhill again this season). Denver's garbage defense switched to a 3-4 this season and they became a top ten defense.

And they did it because they went out and got guys who fit the scheme. And they did so on the cheap. Can you name the guys on Denver's d-line? They're nobodies. But they apparently are doing a good job. And their nobodies are outperforming KC's $50 million dollar men.

KC's defense is struggling because they're trying to put square pegs into round holes.