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Popps
01-04-2010, 02:13 AM
Brandon Marshall apparently picked the wrong time to be late.
According to three team sources, here's the backdrop to Broncos coach Josh McDaniels deciding to bench Marshall for the team's regular-season finale Sunday against the Kansas City Chiefs:
After the Broncos' 30-27 loss at Philadelphia, Brian Dawkins, D.J. Williams, Daniel Graham, Champ Bailey and Kyle Orton met with McDaniels on Monday. Those players communicated the message this was a Denver team loaded with veterans who felt a sense of urgency regarding their chance to make the playoffs.
The veterans urged McDaniels to stress accountability to the team.
The veterans did not single out any player during their group meeting. But Friday, Marshall
showed up late for treatment on a sore hamstring. Given the veterans' message, McDaniels didn't hesitate in deactivating Marshall. McDaniels also benched tight end Tony Scheffler for attitude issues.
As it turned out, Marshall's production was replaced by Jabar Gaffney, who had 14 catches for 213 yards against the Chiefs; by Brandon Lloyd, who had four catches for 95 yards; and by Brandon Stokley, who five catches for 43 yards and a touchdown.
"Those were not the hard decisions," McDaniels said of the benchings. "If it would have been hard, then it would not have been true to what my philosophy has been all along and what I've been saying about building a team and being accountable."


Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14116925#ixzz0bdJsbhR1

Popps
01-04-2010, 02:16 AM
It's funny, because now you look at this and say... here's a guy (Marshall) that basically was done playing and said so, after getting the Pro Bowl nod. So, McDaniels made a statement, apparently to appeal to his team leaders.

Making the best of a bad situation?

Ratboy
01-04-2010, 03:51 AM
It's funny, because now you look at this and say... here's a guy (Marshall) that basically was done playing and said so, after getting the Pro Bowl nod. So, McDaniels made a statement, apparently to appeal to his team leaders.

Making the best of a bad situation?

Yeah! Totally, Popps.

Only to turn around and get into the biggest train wreck of their lives. We got our asses handed to us, could Marshall had made a difference? We'll never know, but we know one thing. Jamaal Charles smacked us in the face with his ****.

Endy
01-04-2010, 06:06 AM
Marshall's a very good player, but throwing the ball was not the Broncos problem yesterday.

Hulamau
01-04-2010, 06:24 AM
Yeah! Totally, Popps.

Only to turn around and get into the biggest train wreck of their lives. We got our asses handed to us, could Marshall had made a difference? We'll never know, but we know one thing. Jamaal Charles smacked us in the face with his ****.

True enough and last I saw Marshall stopped playing Safety as a Sophomore or Junior in College.

Yes, Orton's two pick 6s were a dagger in the heart but the victim was already on life support by then and Kyle, Gaffney, Stokely and Moreno (when he got a chance) were the only ones who drove this team, and kept us in the game for 3 quarters as well while our valiant defense laid a real dinosaur egg for four quarters.

Orton had some beautiful passes last night as well. No doubt it could have helped if Marshall had been there and ready to play. Shame on Marshall for playing the 'me-first' game again.

No doubt he could have eliminate some of those timing drops with players that don't get a lot of balls and would have had a lot better chance on that last hail mary to the endzone that got picked when Flowers had position on the smaller Gaffney.

But over all Gaffney did a decent job of filling in for Marshall's production and his absence did not cost us this game. And neither did Orton.

barryr
01-04-2010, 06:25 AM
Marshall wouldn't have stopped Charles from running through huge holes all game long. It's like the Broncos didn't even have a DL out there.

Goobzilla
01-04-2010, 06:55 AM
I wonder if Graham's enough of a "leader" to call himself out after his pathetic performance yesterday.

broncofan7
01-04-2010, 06:57 AM
Brandon Marshall apparently picked the wrong time to be late.
According to three team sources, here's the backdrop to Broncos coach Josh McDaniels deciding to bench Marshall for the team's regular-season finale Sunday against the Kansas City Chiefs:
After the Broncos' 30-27 loss at Philadelphia, Brian Dawkins, D.J. Williams, Daniel Graham, Champ Bailey and Kyle Orton met with McDaniels on Monday. Those players communicated the message this was a Denver team loaded with veterans who felt a sense of urgency regarding their chance to make the playoffs.
The veterans urged McDaniels to stress accountability to the team.
The veterans did not single out any player during their group meeting. But Friday, Marshall
showed up late for treatment on a sore hamstring. Given the veterans' message, McDaniels didn't hesitate in deactivating Marshall. McDaniels also benched tight end Tony Scheffler for attitude issues.
As it turned out, Marshall's production was replaced by Jabar Gaffney, who had 14 catches for 213 yards against the Chiefs; by Brandon Lloyd, who had four catches for 95 yards; and by Brandon Stokley, who five catches for 43 yards and a touchdown.
"Those were not the hard decisions," McDaniels said of the benchings. "If it would have been hard, then it would not have been true to what my philosophy has been all along and what I've been saying about building a team and being accountable."


Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14116925#ixzz0bdJsbhR1

This came out after Denver realized the negative publicity they were going to receive---nothing more than SPIN. why was this not released immediately? This would have painted the Broncos in a more positive light--but instead they have to lick their finger and hold it up to the winds and they realized in wasn't in their favor--so they came up with this. You believe that McD led our team to much improvement over the course of this season, so I have no doubt that you believe in this too.........

barryr
01-04-2010, 07:00 AM
Dawkins reportedly wants to come back and play and "having fun" according to the analysts, so interesting a veteran player who made the Pro Bowl(whose former team made the playoffs) wants to come back and play with such a supposed idiot for a coach. If the players didn't ask for accoutability, it shouldn't be hard to find out if that really happened or not.

RaiderH8r
01-04-2010, 07:03 AM
This came out after Denver realized the negative publicity they were going to receive---nothing more than SPIN. why was this not released immediately? This would have painted the Broncos in a more positive light--but instead they have to lick their finger and hold it up to the winds and they realized in wasn't in their favor--so they came up with this. You believe that McD led our team to much improvement over the course of this season, so I have no doubt that you believe in this too.........

+1

This wreaks of a setup job so that McKid can dump another Pro Bowl skill player in the offseason.

The only thing McKid improved on was our traditional late season collapse, moving the starting date up to October instead of the usual December. 2-8 since the bye. 2 and 8.

RaiderH8r
01-04-2010, 07:05 AM
Dawkins reportedly wants to come back and play and "having fun" according to the analysts, so interesting a veteran player who made the Pro Bowl(whose former team made the playoffs) wants to come back and play with such a supposed idiot for a coach. If the players didn't ask for accoutability, it shouldn't be hard to find out if that really happened or not.

I'm glad he's been having fun getting his ass handed to him by the likes of the Raiders, Chiefs and Redskins down the stretch. That makes me warm and fuzzy inside. Anybody else in that locker room having fun getting thumped on in an epic collapse of a season?

DrFate
01-04-2010, 07:05 AM
Has any 'veteran player' actually been quoted saying he went to McDaniels and 'requested accountability'? Or just 'unnamed sources' at work again?

Chris
01-04-2010, 07:23 AM
It was all the team captains.

jhns
01-04-2010, 07:32 AM
Always a problem with players. Always an excuse. Same old McDaniels. Of course, it is everyone else according to popps and the "McDaniels is above the Broncos" crowd.

WolfpackGuy
01-04-2010, 07:35 AM
All I know is the Broncos are "accountable"

And out of the playoffs...again

Steve Prefontaine
01-04-2010, 07:48 AM
Marshall's a very good player, but throwing the ball was not the Broncos problem yesterday.

2 KC defensive touchdowns off interceptions say you are wrong.

DrFate
01-04-2010, 07:49 AM
It was all the team captains.

Again - was anyone quoted, on the record, with this 'request'?

Or is it just chatter?

jhat01
01-04-2010, 07:58 AM
Again - was anyone quoted, on the record, with this 'request'?

Or is it just chatter?

Orton eluded to it in his post game I think. I'll have to go back and look.

Beantown Bronco
01-04-2010, 08:00 AM
2 KC defensive touchdowns off interceptions say you are wrong.

That's a tackling problem, not necessarily a throwing problem.

jhns
01-04-2010, 08:06 AM
That's a tackling problem, not necessarily a throwing problem.

Interceptions aren't a throwing problem now? What exactly was wrong with Cutler when he was here then? People couldn't tackle? I guess I don't get what you guys have argued all season about Cutler with your statement here.

It is pretty funny how much you defend complete garbage.

gyldenlove
01-04-2010, 08:08 AM
Brian Dawkins, D.J. Williams, Daniel Graham, Champ Bailey and Kyle Orton met with McDaniels

It is funny because that is in fact a list of people who played like **** against the Chiefs, so I guess the accountability they want will extend to themselves. Graham and Bailey could both start by showing their dedication to accountability by accepting greately reduced contracts, Orton has the opportunity to sign a small tender and either stay here or ensure he can be traded for a decent draft pick to another team.

Dawkins and DJ Williams can't do much contract wise, but they can at least own up publicly and show some accountability that way.

Endy
01-04-2010, 08:09 AM
2 KC defensive touchdowns off interceptions say you are wrong.

Okay. Catching the football was not the wide receivers' problem yesterday.

Point is that Orton threw for 430 yards and Marshall's replacement had over 200 yards himself.

Marshall would not have prevented those pick 6's and I doubt he would have played better than Gaffney did.

Not saying that having him on the field wouldn't help, but a even a team full of Brandon Marshall's with Peyton Hillis playing QB still would have lost by 20.

OBF1
01-04-2010, 08:09 AM
Hey guys..... even if we won 49-0 we are at the same point, NO playoffs. Both the Ravens and Jets won yesterday. No single player orcoach cost us a thing yesterday but and embarassing loss to the chiefs.

gyldenlove
01-04-2010, 08:09 AM
That's a tackling problem, not necessarily a throwing problem.

No, they were both throwing problems, Orton threw the ball right to a guy who has 4 interceptions in nearly 5 full seasons.

Buck Melanoma
01-04-2010, 08:14 AM
Lil Hoodie forgot one lesson that he should have learned in NE - don't throw your players under the bus publicly.

Maybe Marshall did need to be disciplined - I don't know. One thing is certain - Mickey D should have handled much of what he has said behind closed doors, not at the microphone.

Punk is as punk does.

oubronco
01-04-2010, 08:28 AM
Hey guys..... even if we won 49-0 we are at the same point, NO playoffs. Both the Ravens and Jets won yesterday. No single player orcoach cost us a thing yesterday but and embarassing loss to the chiefs.

the problem is even if we would've backed in the playoffs we wouldn't of done anything anyways

broncofan7
01-04-2010, 08:46 AM
Hey guys..... even if we won 49-0 we are at the same point, NO playoffs. Both the Ravens and Jets won yesterday. No single player orcoach cost us a thing yesterday but and embarassing loss to the chiefs.

Really? you mean we knew that the bungles would lay down for the NYJ despite the fact that they played LATER ON IN THE DAY so that's why we got pasted in a game that we needed to win just to have a chance? Aghh, now it all makes sense

uplink
01-04-2010, 08:58 AM
Lil Hoodie forgot one lesson that he should have learned in NE - don't throw your players under the bus publicly.


Agree, but according to the story the vets wanted it done for accountability reasons and McD did it and couldn't really sugar coat it to the press without lying and thus damaging his relationship with the vets.

RaiderH8r
01-04-2010, 09:02 AM
Hey guys..... even if we won 49-0 we are at the same point, NO playoffs. Both the Ravens and Jets won yesterday. No single player orcoach cost us a thing yesterday but and embarassing loss to the chiefs.

After a 6-0 start all the Broncos needed was to go 4-6 in their remaining 10 games to feasibly make the playoffs. With games against the bottom dwelling Redskins, Raiders and two against the Chiefs out of the next 10 games should have ensured a playoff spot just beating up on poor teams. Figure they can probably go 5-5 down the stretch and get to 11 wins and that's not too shabby. But no, McKid's December schnide started in October and lasted through January dropping games to the Skins, Raiders, and a split against the hapless f'ing Chiefs. Yesterday's game may have been rendered moot by wins from Baltimore and NYJ but the bigger point is that it shouldn't have mattered. Denver should have been in a win and in situation with no help needed. Hell, they should have been a playoff lock by week 17 but McKid has been figured out and now he's going back to his method of throwing players under the bus to cover for his own mistakes.

2-8.

rastaman
01-04-2010, 10:15 AM
Brandon Marshall apparently picked the wrong time to be late.
According to three team sources, here's the backdrop to Broncos coach Josh McDaniels deciding to bench Marshall for the team's regular-season finale Sunday against the Kansas City Chiefs:
After the Broncos' 30-27 loss at Philadelphia, Brian Dawkins, D.J. Williams, Daniel Graham, Champ Bailey and Kyle Orton met with McDaniels on Monday. Those players communicated the message this was a Denver team loaded with veterans who felt a sense of urgency regarding their chance to make the playoffs.
The veterans urged McDaniels to stress accountability to the team.
The veterans did not single out any player during their group meeting. But Friday, Marshall
showed up late for treatment on a sore hamstring. Given the veterans' message, McDaniels didn't hesitate in deactivating Marshall. McDaniels also benched tight end Tony Scheffler for attitude issues.
As it turned out, Marshall's production was replaced by Jabar Gaffney, who had 14 catches for 213 yards against the Chiefs; by Brandon Lloyd, who had four catches for 95 yards; and by Brandon Stokley, who five catches for 43 yards and a touchdown.
"Those were not the hard decisions," McDaniels said of the benchings. "If it would have been hard, then it would not have been true to what my philosophy has been all along and what I've been saying about building a team and being accountable."


Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14116925#ixzz0bdJsbhR1

Means absolutely nothing b/c the vets were not accountable for how they played against KC having giving up 44 points!

Both McD and his hand-picked VETERANS stunk up the joint this past Sunday....so they basically need to STFU with all their rhetoric BS. These veterans may have joined forces to support the benchings of Scheffler and Bmarsh to endear themselves to McD.....however, these same veterans didn't step forward to ensure the defeat of KC.

Speaking of accountability and attitudes.....it was glaringly absent from our so called veterans AT HOME against the lowly KC. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me.

Its easy to find scapegoats to cover up your non-performance and to buy time to hide your incompetencies.....but you can't run and hide forever.

TailgateNut
01-04-2010, 10:18 AM
Means absolutely nothing b/c the vets were not accountable for how they played against KC having giving up 44 points!

Both McD and his hand-picked VETERANS stunk up the joint this past Sunday....so they basically need to STFU with all their rhetoric BS. These veterans may have joined forces to support the benchings of Scheffler and Bmarsh to endear themselves to McD.....however, these same veterans didn't step forward to ensure the defeat of KC.

Speaking of accountability and attitudes.....it was glaringly absent from our so called veterans AT HOME against the lowly KC. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me.

Its easy to find scapegoats to cover up your non-performance and to buy time to hide your incompetencies.....but you can't run and hide forever.

Speaking of scapegoats. Don't you have one or two you want to single out once again!

Florida_Bronco
01-04-2010, 10:20 AM
Yeah! Totally, Popps.

Only to turn around and get into the biggest train wreck of their lives. We got our asses handed to us, could Marshall had made a difference? We'll never know, but we know one thing. Jamaal Charles smacked us in the face with his ****.

I don't know about you, but I don't want to sacrifice long term success (which requires a team first attitude) for the instant gratification of a win.

If those loss is just another building block in exorcising Shanahan's cancer from the team, well then I'll be happy to take it.

broncofan7
01-04-2010, 10:20 AM
Means absolutely nothing b/c the vets were not accountable for how they played against KC having giving up 44 points!

Both McD and his hand-picked VETERANS stunk up the joint this past Sunday....so they basically need to STFU with all their rhetoric BS. These veterans may have joined forces to support the benchings of Scheffler and Bmarsh to endear themselves to McD.....however, these same veterans didn't step forward to ensure the defeat of KC.

Speaking of accountability and attitudes.....it was glaringly absent from our so called veterans AT HOME against the lowly KC. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me.

Its easy to find scapegoats to cover up your non-performance and to buy time to hide your incompetencies.....but you can't run and hide forever.

Bingo!

broncofan7
01-04-2010, 10:21 AM
Speaking of scapegoats. Don't you have one or two you want to single out once again!

your RV is kick ASS. that is all.

rastaman
01-04-2010, 10:22 AM
True enough and last I saw Marshall stopped playing Safety as a Sophomore or Junior in College.

Yes, Orton's two pick 6s were a dagger in the heart but the victim was already on life support by then and Kyle, Gaffney, Stokely and Moreno (when he got a chance) were the only ones who drove this team, and kept us in the game for 3 quarters as well while our valiant defense laid a real dinosaur egg for four quarters.

Orton had some beautiful passes last night as well. No doubt it could have helped if Marshall had been there and ready to play. Shame on Marshall for playing the 'me-first' game again.

No doubt he could have eliminate some of those timing drops with players that don't get a lot of balls and would have had a lot better chance on that last hail mary to the endzone that got picked when Flowers had position on the smaller Gaffney.

But over all Gaffney did a decent job of filling in for Marshall's production and his absence did not cost us this game. And neither did Orton.

So you're assuming BMarsh could have done all the above on a bad hamstring? Remember, many of the veterans who alledgedly went to McD and told him to bench Marshall also went out last sunday and gave up 44 points against KC while allowing over 300 yards rushing with Charles gaining 250 plus yards.

broncofan7
01-04-2010, 10:23 AM
I don't know about you, but I don't want to sacrifice long term success (which requires a team first attitude) for the instant gratification of a win.

If those loss is just another building block in exorcising Shanahan's cancer from the team, well then I'll be happy to take it.

2-8 in their last ten games...McD isn't even building his resume with that type of performance to close the season--

rastaman
01-04-2010, 10:26 AM
Speaking of scapegoats. Don't you have one or two you want to single out once again!

Well talk is cheap! If the theme last week was all about ACCOUNTABILITY-RESPONSIBIILITY and ATTITUDE, both McD and his Veteran robots did not show up last Sunday to backup their BS!

TonyR
01-04-2010, 10:32 AM
We got our asses handed to us, could Marshall had made a difference?

Why do people keep saying this? Marshall had no intention of playing, and even if he did the effort wouldn't have been there. Those are the reasons this problem happened. He got called out for his efforts against Philly, he faked an injury, and he showed up late for treatment on the "injury".

Popps
01-04-2010, 10:35 AM
I don't know about you, but I don't want to sacrifice long term success (which requires a team first attitude) for the instant gratification of a win.

If those loss is just another building block in exorcising Shanahan's cancer from the team, well then I'll be happy to take it.

That was sort of what I wondered when I read the article.

If McDaniels did indeed work this out with his team leaders, then the public knowledge of why this happened eventually works in his favor, imo.

Think about it from a personal perspective. I'll bet everyone here at some point or another has had to cut ties with someone, and given up something in the short term for doing so. But, you did it for the long-term betterment of the situation. (Be it girlfriends, employees, friends, etc.)

I still don't know if he handled it correctly, but if what is being reported is true (Scheffler bad-mouthing the team after dropping TDs and Marshall taking plays and potentially games off).... then I don't blame him for doing this.


Here's the thing about McDaniels. This isn't a guy who's come into town to be happy that he's got a job and to put together enough. 500 seasons to be employed for a few years. You can tell this guy is going to win big, or go down in flames trying. He's got a vision for the franchise that he developed working in a championship structure. So, if guys aren't on board... he's cutting ties.

Give him credit. He worked it out with Marshall and got a Pro Bowl season out of him. But, at a certain point, you can make sugar cookies out of ****. And personally, I don't trust Marshall, at this stage. He's got too much history to assume these reports about him aren't true.

Popps
01-04-2010, 10:37 AM
Why do people keep saying this? Marshall had no intention of playing, and even if he did the effort wouldn't have been there. Those are the reasons this problem happened. He got called out for his efforts against Philly, he faked an injury, and he showed up late for treatment on the "injury".

Elway commented that it was pretty clear Brandon wasn't giving a full effort in Philly.

Add Scheffler's drop of a crucial TD in the endzone, and maybe you start to put together a pattern.


I get the idea that Brandon Marshall is a great player... when he feels like it.

Paladin
01-04-2010, 10:41 AM
that was sort of what i wondered when i read the article.

If mcdaniels did indeed work this out with his team leaders, then the public knowledge of why this happened eventually works in his favor, imo.

Think about it from a personal perspective. I'll bet everyone here at some point or another has had to cut ties with someone, and given up something in the short term for doing so. But, you did it for the long-term betterment of the situation. (be it girlfriends, employees, friends, etc.)

i still don't know if he handled it correctly, but if what is being reported is true (scheffler bad-mouthing the team after dropping tds and marshall taking plays and potentially games off).... Then i don't blame him for doing this.


Here's the thing about mcdaniels. This isn't a guy who's come into town to be happy that he's got a job and to put together enough. 500 seasons to be employed for a few years. You can tell this guy is going to win big, or go down in flames trying. He's got a vision for the franchise that he developed working in a championship structure. So, if guys aren't on board... He's cutting ties.

Give him credit. He worked it out with marshall and got a pro bowl season out of him. But, at a certain point, you can make sugar cookies out of ****. And personally, i don't trust marshall, at this stage. He's got too much history to assume these reports about him aren't true.

rep!!!

rastaman
01-04-2010, 10:51 AM
That was sort of what I wondered when I read the article.

If McDaniels did indeed work this out with his team leaders, then the public knowledge of why this happened eventually works in his favor, imo.

Think about it from a personal perspective. I'll bet everyone here at some point or another has had to cut ties with someone, and given up something in the short term for doing so. But, you did it for the long-term betterment of the situation. (Be it girlfriends, employees, friends, etc.)

I still don't know if he handled it correctly, but if what is being reported is true (Scheffler bad-mouthing the team after dropping TDs and Marshall taking plays and potentially games off).... then I don't blame him for doing this.


Here's the thing about McDaniels. This isn't a guy who's come into town to be happy that he's got a job and to put together enough. 500 seasons to be employed for a few years. You can tell this guy is going to win big, or go down in flames trying. He's got a vision for the franchise that he developed working in a championship structure. So, if guys aren't on board... he's cutting ties.

Give him credit. He worked it out with Marshall and got a Pro Bowl season out of him. But, at a certain point, you can make sugar cookies out of ****. And personally, I don't trust Marshall, at this stage. He's got too much history to assume these reports about him aren't true.

Marshall got Marshall to the Pro Bowl! Last time I checked...McD hasn't caught no one Fu*king ball, didn't run run one F*@king route, didn't take one F*#king viciously hit from defenses, and he didn't risking bodily harm and careering ending injury(s) to play every sunday for 16 weeks. Point is, McD needed BMarsh more than Bmarsh needed McDaniel's in 2009.

Speaking of cutting ties! It works both ways. Cutler realized he had to cut ties with McD and Bowlen and likewise McD and Bowlen realized this as well. Now with see the same scenario happening with the need to cut ties once again from McD btwn Marshall and Scheffler and possible Hillis. Oh well life goes on.

vancejohnson82
01-04-2010, 10:54 AM
Marshall got Marshall to the Pro Bowl! Last time I checked...McD hasn't caught no one ****ing ball, didn't run run one F*@king route, didn't take one F*#king viciously hit from defenses, and he didn't risking bodily harm and careering ending injury(s) to play every sunday for 16 weeks. Point is, McD needed BMarsh more than Bmarsh needed McDaniel's in 2009.

Speaking of cutting ties! It works both ways. Cutler realized he had to cut ties with McD and Bowlen and likewise McD and Bowlen realized this as well. Now with see the same scenario happening with the need to cut ties once again from McD btwn Marshall and Scheffler and possible Hillis. Oh well life goes on.

But according to you guys McDaniels is out to sabotage certain guys to prove a point...so why would he even put Marshall on the field and throw him passes???

And don't give me the "because he wanted to win" argument because you guys seem to believe that he doesnt care about winning as long as he is proving his points

Popps
01-04-2010, 10:57 AM
Marshall got Marshall to the Pro Bowl! Last time I checked...McD hasn't caught no one ****ing ball, didn't run run one F*@king route, didn't take one F*#king viciously .

So much anger! Wow!

Point is, McD needed BMarsh more than Bmarsh needed McDaniel's in 2009..


Yea, well... playing without Marshall was a non-issue on Sunday. Gaffney stepped up and probably played better than Marshall would have.

Of course, Marshall was a non-issue against Philly, too. So, maybe it's a moot point.


Speaking of cutting ties! It works both ways. Cutler realized he had to cut ties with McD

That's hysterical.

Yea, Cutler realized he needed to cut ties after McDaniels was in discussions for a replacement for his dumb ass.

Now with see the same scenario happening with the need to cut ties once again from McD btwn Marshall and Scheffler and possible Hillis.

Would you please quit mentioning Hillis like he has NFL relevance.

Oh well life goes on.

You'd better believe it.

Breaker
01-04-2010, 11:02 AM
I think Orton and Graham should shut their mouths until they learn some accountability and not throw 3 picks and drop 2 wide open balls for huge plays respectively.

Inkana7
01-04-2010, 11:05 AM
I think Orton and Graham should shut their mouths until they learn some accountability and not throw 3 picks and drop 2 wide open balls for huge plays respectively.

What do you want them to do, apologize to you personally? I'm sure they did take responsibility for it within the team. Something I'm not sure Marshall could ever do. Oh wait, he did say he would give a "few" of his 21 catches away for a win. What a champ.

colonelbeef
01-04-2010, 11:24 AM
Let me summarize the Poops/apologist point of view for the remainder of the offseason

1. going 2-8 down the stretch was a result of excellent coaches unable to coach up inferior talent.

2.Marshall is a cancer, egomaniac. Same for Sheffler. Same for anybody who has any sort of problem with McDaniels' heavy handed approach to managing the roster and injuries.

3. All of the failures from the 2008 draft are a result of Shanahan's players and OL not being good enough.

4. all of Kyle Orton's obvious shortcomings (To the unbiased observer that is) are a result of the Shanahan OL- just a year ago considered to be among the 3 or 4 best in the league- suddenly not being good enough. Also the receivers, they aren't good enough. Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, Stokeley, Gaffney, Lloyd. What just a year ago was considered to be a top flite unit is suddenly inadequate. Must be them, not the subpar talent throwing them the ball, or the horrific situational coaching coming from the sidelines.

5. This was a total rebuild, and we all knew it. Except that the guy generally regarded as the best HC outside of Belichick over the past 15 years, and the best Offensive mind, the guy who helped develop Steve Young and John Elway and who both credit as being an offensive and quaterbacking genius, had already totally rebuilt the OL on the fly, installed a new, young QB with unlimited potential, put together the best two young tackles in the league, drafted two gamebreaking WRs, a deep threat TE with hands of gold, and a HB/FB monster who stepped in to lead the team in rushing last year.

All of this was already in place. The guy taking over the Broncos job was being handed the keys to a Porsche that needed some tuning on offense, and lots of resources and a new philosophy on defense. It was all there to be spent.

Instead we now get a bunch of pansy apologists claiming that 2-8 down the stretch, including losses at home to the ****ing Chiefs and Raiders to miss the playoffs, with the best player on the sideline being accused of lying about an injury publicly leading up to the final game, with garbage QB play and no discernable running attack is supposed to be some sort of moral victory, or a step in the right direction.

As myself and many others have said numerous times- the Broncos no longer have a QB. The Cutler fiasco last offseason set in motion the horrid finale that we witnessed this season. Now we get to watch Shanahan coach up another team, and Marshall walk away simply because the coach has once again decided to act like the rookie that he is and let his ego get in the way of making good, sound personnel decisions for the future of the franchise.

You're right Poops et al, this is fantastic. Go on now, tell me how performing worse than the Browns and Chiefs during the 2nd half of the season is acceptable. I'm waiting.

TailgateNut
01-04-2010, 11:32 AM
Well talk is cheap! If the theme last week was all about ACCOUNTABILITY-RESPONSIBIILITY and ATTITUDE, both McD and his Veteran robots did not show up last Sunday to backup their BS!

You're right about one thing. Talk is cheap, and your drivel is cheaper. The rest of the team didn't give up before game time.

**** BM and Sheffler. If they want to be PrimaDonnas, let them do that somewhere else. As I said before BM decided to act like a football player, he's a mini TO. Lot's of talent, but an asshole who can be a cancer to a team. Looks like he hasn't changed a bit. As far as Sheffler goes, who knows what his ****ing problem is.
AND speaking of ROBOTS, do you ever have anything positive in your life?

DenverBroncosJM
01-04-2010, 11:34 AM
Im curious what should have McD said when asked why BM was benched? Its clear to all the BM Lovers or McD haters he handled this wrong but how should he have handled it?

Last game of the season and our pro bowl receiver gets benched it would have been noticed so what do you say? Damned if yah do and Damned if yah dont.

colonelbeef
01-04-2010, 11:37 AM
Im curious what should have McD said when asked why BM was benched? Its clear to all the BM Lovers or McD haters he handled this wrong but how should he have handled it?

Last game of the season and our pro bowl receiver gets benched it would have been noticed so what do you say? Damned if yah do and Damned if yah dont.

He's injured. He has no reason to say otherwise. Dr McDaniels should have kept his mouth shut and let it be. The fans would be questioning him enough without McDaniels getting publicly involved, thereby pissing off half the team and fanbase.

DenverBroncosJM
01-04-2010, 11:39 AM
He's injured. He has no reason to say otherwise. Dr McDaniels should have kept his mouth shut and let it be. The fans would be questioning him enough without McDaniels getting publicly involved, thereby pissing off half the team and fanbase.

OK but when BM says he can play and the MRI shows no damage? This stuff comes out, as we can see.

Florida_Bronco
01-04-2010, 11:42 AM
I think Orton and Graham should shut their mouths until they learn some accountability and not throw 3 picks and drop 2 wide open balls for huge plays respectively.

I can forgive poor play alot easier than I can forgive someone for giving up on the team.

TailgateNut
01-04-2010, 11:45 AM
He's injured. He has no reason to say otherwise. Dr McDaniels should have kept his mouth shut and let it be. The fans would be questioning him enough without McDaniels getting publicly involved, thereby pissing off half the team and fanbase.


Oh, I get it, he should have lied and stated that BM didn't go into douche mode again.

TailgateNut
01-04-2010, 11:46 AM
I can forgive poor play alot easier than I can forgive someone for giving up on the team.


Reminds me of Quitterson.

colonelbeef
01-04-2010, 11:46 AM
OK but when BM says he can play and the MRI shows no damage? This stuff comes out, as we can see.

This is a lot of conjecture about somethine we really don't now the truth about.

Bottom line- for a coaching organizational staff that is really tight lipped about injury information, there sure is a lot of innuendo floating around without a direct source. MRIs are proven to be incorrect all the time.

Marshall said he was hurt. If he is, and McDaniels still questions him publicly, what does that do for the team? If he isn't, again, what does that do for the team?

McDaniels needs to learn to pick his battles, this was a stupid one to get into.

colonelbeef
01-04-2010, 11:48 AM
Oh, I get it, he should have lied and stated that BM didn't go into douche mode again.

show me the medical report that states he was good to play. Otherwise, stop being so stupid as to buy into everything McDaniels leaks out just because he's the coach. He comes from a proven lying, self serving coaching background.

Arkie
01-04-2010, 11:50 AM
Marshall wouldn't have matched Gaffney's production in the last game. He was done with the Broncos before the Philly game. Benching Marshall was one of the only things Denver did right for the last game.

TailgateNut
01-04-2010, 11:52 AM
show me the medical report that states he was not cleared to play. Otherwise, stop being so stupid as to buy into everything BM leaks out just because he's the PrimaDonna. He comes from a proven lying, self serving woman beater background.

There ya go, asswipe. I fixed it for you. No charge!

rastaman
01-04-2010, 12:12 PM
But according to you guys McDaniels is out to sabotage certain guys to prove a point...so why would he even put Marshall on the field and throw him passes???

And don't give me the "because he wanted to win" argument because you guys seem to believe that he doesnt care about winning as long as he is proving his points

Ummmmm.....Okay! You haven't explained why McD stuck with McD and allowed him to play either!

Surely McD didn't do it out the niceness of his HEART. After all, Rattle Snakes don't operate this way.

broncosteven
01-04-2010, 12:20 PM
like I said in another thread, I wonder if Moss will be cut/traded this year because of his accountablity issues this year...

TailgateNut
01-04-2010, 12:22 PM
Ummmmm.....Okay! You haven't explained why McD stuck with McD and allowed him to play either!

Surely McD didn't do it out the niceness of his HEART. After all, Rattle Snakes don't operate this way.

Lawd have mercy.

Popps
01-04-2010, 07:05 PM
Wow...

http://www.denverbroncos.com/

Watch the Kyle Orton interview, post-game.

Thanks the coach for doing what the rest of the team asked him to do and demand accountability. Seemed pretty intense in his delivery of the answer.

Was asked directly... "Kyle, are you saying that the vets on this team acknowledge that these guys quit on the team?"

Just listen to his answer. Doesn't say yes (of course) .... but he says yes.

Taco John
01-04-2010, 07:11 PM
I really like Kyle's demeanor. The guy just seems like a solid, personally strong individual. He's not full of himself, but he carries an air of confidence in himself.

Bronx33
01-04-2010, 07:21 PM
Lawd have mercy.


I blame in all on the public school system.

Hamrob
01-04-2010, 08:07 PM
I don't know about you, but I don't want to sacrifice long term success (which requires a team first attitude) for the instant gratification of a win.

If those loss is just another building block in exorcising Shanahan's cancer from the team, well then I'll be happy to take it.Exorcising Shanahan's cancer from the team? What the **** are you talkng about?

Mike Shanahan was the winningest coach the Broncos have ever had. He won 2 Superbowl's for us...something no other coach could get done.

Just what ****ing cancer are you talking about. Mike will probably take the pathetic Redskins to the playoffs next year. What an idiotic statement on your part.

Popps
01-04-2010, 08:18 PM
Exorcising Shanahan's cancer from the team? What the **** are you talkng about?

Just what ****ing cancer are you talking about. .

-David Kircus
-Javon Walker
-Travis Henry
-iHop
-Dale Carter

etc...etc.

No one is questioning Shanahan's ability to coach. But, his GM ability over the past decade has been sketchy, at best. Actually, it's been horrible in free agency and so-so in the draft.... and only recently did a couple drafts bring it up to so-so.

The Club Med party at Dove Valley is over. ****s like Marshall can get with the program or get the **** out.

You don't have to like it, but you not liking it won't change it.

I happen to like it. :)

Hamrob
01-04-2010, 09:10 PM
-David Kircus
-Javon Walker
-Travis Henry
-iHop
-Dale Carter

etc...etc.

No one is questioning Shanahan's ability to coach. But, his GM ability over the past decade has been sketchy, at best. Actually, it's been horrible in free agency and so-so in the draft.... and only recently did a couple drafts bring it up to so-so.

The Club Med party at Dove Valley is over. ****s like Marshall can get with the program or get the **** out.

You don't have to like it, but you not liking it won't change it.

I happen to like it. :)Popps...I don't care what you like or don't like for that matter. My response to that deushebag was that Mike Shanahan was not a cancer and if he was....then let's hire another one...if they bring us 2 Superbowls and an average of 10 wins per season.

I'm rooting for McDaniels, but he's got a steap hill to climb and he's not in the same class as Shanny...that's for sure. And as far as his free agent signings and his drafting...well let's just see how that all turns out. I can't say that I'm impressed to this point.

ShutDownPoster
01-04-2010, 09:20 PM
Gaffney did an awesome job - doesn't hurt that he KNOWS the system and is suited for it. On a side note - wasn't Gaffney drafted in the same year as Lelie?

Dagmar
01-04-2010, 09:32 PM
Popps...I don't care what you like or don't like for that matter. My response to that deushebag was that Mike Shanahan was not a cancer and if he was....then let's hire another one...if they bring us 2 Superbowls and an average of 10 wins per season.

I'm rooting for McDaniels, but he's got a steap hill to climb and he's not in the same class as Shanny...that's for sure. And as far as his free agent signings and his drafting...well let's just see how that all turns out. I can't say that I'm impressed to this point.

I'm sure Popps doesn't give 2 ****s if you are impressed or not.

And deushebag?

DivineLegion
01-04-2010, 09:46 PM
Maybe our problem against the Chiefs was in the trenches. We got manhandled on the Defensive side of the ball, and our Offensive line couldent get Chris Johnson past the line of scrimage. The threw the ball 50+ times because we couldent run. Our "collapse" this season almost mirrored the one from last season, we couldent run the ball when it mattered. Thats it, look at every team in the playoffs this season and tell me what they all have in common.

Bengals: Strong running game and a big physical O-line, top defense, and Carson Palmer.
Vikings: Strong running game with a big physical O-line, top Defense, and Brett Favre.
Eagles: Andy Reid, Donovan McNabb, and a strong Defense.
Patriots: Tom Brady, ok running game, and a good O-line.
Jets: Best in the NFL Defense, best running game in the NFL because of a big physical O-line.
Colts: Peyton Manning, top 5 Defense, and the best O-line in the NFL.
Chargers: Phillip Rivers, Good running game with a big physical O-line, and a solid D.
Cowboys: Tony Romo, Huge offensive line, great running game, solid D.
Packers: Top 5 Defense, Aaron Rogers, strong running game, Big physical O-line.
Saints: Drew Brees, play making Defense, Strong running game, Good O-line.
Ravens: Big physical O-line, Good Defense, strong running game, and Joe Flaco.
Cardinals: Solid D, Kurt Warner, Big physical O-line.


Im pretty sure that list contains the top ten Qbs in the NFL, the 12 top offensive lines this season, and atleast half of the top 15 defenses in the NFL. We couldent run the ball the second half of the season because we had way to many injuries across the board. We need to focus on finding a left Guard and Center in the 10' draft. We also need more size on our defensive line, I dont know what happened to Ryan McBean but losing that kid killed our run stoping ability. I say Draft the kid (DT) out of Cal, and focus on the rebuilding a tatered O-line in 2-3.

Popps
01-04-2010, 10:00 PM
Maybe our problem against the Chiefs was in the trenches. We got manhandled on the Defensive side of the ball, and our Offensive line couldent get Chris Johnson past the line of scrimage. The threw the ball 50+ times because we couldent run. Our "collapse" this season almost mirrored the one from last season, we couldent run the ball when it mattered. Thats it, look at every team in the playoffs this season and tell me what they all have in common.

Bengals: Strong running game and a big physical O-line, top defense, and Carson Palmer.
Vikings: Strong running game with a big physical O-line, top Defense, and Brett Favre.
Eagles: Andy Reid, Donovan McNabb, and a strong Defense.
Patriots: Tom Brady, ok running game, and a good O-line.
Jets: Best in the NFL Defense, best running game in the NFL because of a big physical O-line.
Colts: Peyton Manning, top 5 Defense, and the best O-line in the NFL.
Chargers: Phillip Rivers, Good running game with a big physical O-line, and a solid D.
Cowboys: Tony Romo, Huge offensive line, great running game, solid D.
Packers: Top 5 Defense, Aaron Rogers, strong running game, Big physical O-line.
Saints: Drew Brees, play making Defense, Strong running game, Good O-line.
Ravens: Big physical O-line, Good Defense, strong running game, and Joe Flaco.
Cardinals: Solid D, Kurt Warner, Big physical O-line.


Im pretty sure that list contains the top ten Qbs in the NFL, the 12 top offensive lines this season, and atleast half of the top 15 defenses in the NFL. We couldent run the ball the second half of the season because we had way to many injuries across the board. We need to focus on finding a left Guard and Center in the 10' draft. We also need more size on our defensive line, I dont know what happened to Ryan McBean but losing that kid killed our run stoping ability. I say Draft the kid (DT) out of Cal, and focus on the rebuilding a tatered O-line in 2-3.



Phenomenal post.

A ****ing plus.


Last year I was posting some similar-themed threads as the playoffs were going on.

Of the final 4 playoff teams, 3 were ranked in the top 4 defenses.

For the entire playoffs, QBs averaged something like 220 yards passing, 2 TDs and 1 INT.

Very pedestrian numbers.

The obvious takeaway here is, if you can't run the ball and play defense, you're ****ed... and when you get in, the 1-man QB show isn't going to cut it.

Very few QBs are suited to a pass-only offense we ran yesterday. (Due to the lack of run-blocking.) Kyle Orton isn't one of them.

watermock
01-04-2010, 10:02 PM
You forgot Clarett nd Kennison, Popps. Your losing your touch, probably because of our suddenly pathetic O-Line and horrible draft with 3 first rounders, and a 3rd.

Hey, but draft for special teams play, your a chip off Al davis sack.

And I think we traded Walker.

Popps
01-04-2010, 10:03 PM
Popps...I don't care what you like or don't like for that matter. .

I don't care if you care. That wasn't the point. The point was, you not liking it won't change the factual reality that Mike Shanahan has had problems finding quality personnel, and in particular... has brought in too many dip****s and paid them too much.

My response to that deushebag was that Mike Shanahan was not a cancer and if he was....then let's hire another one...if they bring us 2 Superbowls and an average of 10 wins per season.
.

I don't believe he meant Shanahan was a cancer. He meant that the club is weeding out the schmucks that Shanahan left behind.

watermock
01-04-2010, 10:08 PM
Bengals: Strong running game and a big physical O-line, top defense, and Carson Palmer.
Vikings: Strong running game with a big physical O-line, top Defense, and Brett Favre.
Eagles: Andy Reid, Donovan McNabb, and a strong Defense.
Patriots: Tom Brady, ok running game, and a good O-line.
Jets: Best in the NFL Defense, best running game in the NFL because of a big physical O-line.
Colts: Peyton Manning, top 5 Defense, and the best O-line in the NFL.
Chargers: Phillip Rivers, Good running game with a big physical O-line, and a solid D.
Cowboys: Tony Romo, Huge offensive line, great running game, solid D.
Packers: Top 5 Defense, Aaron Rogers, strong running game, Big physical O-line.
Saints: Drew Brees, play making Defense, Strong running game, Good O-line.
Ravens: Big physical O-line, Good Defense, strong running game, and Joe Flaco.
Cardinals: Solid D, Kurt Warner, Big physical O-line.


Wow.

I'm just getting some popcorn.

Broncoman13
01-04-2010, 10:14 PM
I really like Kyle's demeanor. The guy just seems like a solid, personally strong individual. He's not full of himself, but he carries an air of confidence in himself.

I agree 100%. He has the perfect demeanor to be a QB in Denver. Sad that he doesn't have the physical talent you would prefer.

It is troublesome that we're finding out how much internal conflict there was with this team. So bad that players were going to National Sports Writers and talking about internal issues.

Here is how bad... Listening to BDawks end of season interview and Mario Haggan and Ryan McBean are yelling at each other. BDawk (uncomfortable) says man these guys are crazy and tries to ignore the conflict.

Never a good thing when players are turning on one and other.

Dagmar
01-04-2010, 10:17 PM
You forgot Clarett nd Kennison, Popps. Your losing your touch, probably because of our suddenly pathetic O-Line and horrible draft with 3 first rounders, and a 3rd.

Hey, but draft for special teams play, your a chip off Al davis sack.

And I think we traded Walker.

This idiot is a ****ing riot!

Popps
01-04-2010, 10:29 PM
You forgot Clarett nd Kennison, Popps. Your losing your touch, probably because of our suddenly pathetic O-Line and horrible draft with 3 first rounders, and a 3rd.

Hey, but draft for special teams play, your a chip off Al davis sack.

And I think we traded Walker.

Take your medicine and go to bed, Mock.

Broncoman13
01-04-2010, 10:41 PM
Actually I think McD eluded to the fact that his first draft wasn't the perfect fit.

He discussed things such as acquiring free agents and draft prospects that fit their AFCW opponents. To me, that screams that drafting a 5'9 CB probably doesn't help when facing WRs in the AFCW. It also screams that he is willing to look at everything, including himself and improve. Scott Hastings said it best after McD's interview. "Damn, damn you McD. I want to be mad at you right now... but you're saying and doing all the right things."

Popps
01-04-2010, 10:58 PM
Actually I think McD eluded to the fact that his first draft wasn't the perfect fit.

He discussed things such as acquiring free agents and draft prospects that fit their AFCW opponents. To me, that screams that drafting a 5'9 CB probably doesn't help when facing WRs in the AFCW. It also screams that he is willing to look at everything, including himself and improve. Scott Hastings said it best after McD's interview. "Damn, damn you McD. I want to be mad at you right now... but you're saying and doing all the right things."

I think Smith was drafted because he showed so much promise with regards to being a ball-hawk in college. He's struggled to make the transition, but the kid has all the skills and is reportedly a hard worker. I think it's a confidence thing for young CBs. He just didn't look sure of himself when he was out there.

I still have hopes that he'll wind up a productive nickel for us by next season, and hopefully a guy that can compete for a starting gig when we lose Champ.

Bob's your Information Minister
01-05-2010, 03:21 AM
Kind of funny that DJ Williams, Brian Dawkins and Champ Bailey request accountability...and then went out and LOST THE GAME with the rest of Denver's defense.

LMAO

RaiderH8r
01-05-2010, 07:54 AM
Oh, I get it, he should have lied and stated that BM didn't go into douche mode again.

Yeah, he'd be the first NFL HC to lie about an injury or fudge the report. :wiggle:

RaiderH8r
01-05-2010, 08:02 AM
Maybe our problem against the Chiefs was in the trenches. We got manhandled on the Defensive side of the ball, and our Offensive line couldent get Chris Johnson past the line of scrimage. The threw the ball 50+ times because we couldent run. Our "collapse" this season almost mirrored the one from last season, we couldent run the ball when it mattered. Thats it, look at every team in the playoffs this season and tell me what they all have in common.

Bengals: Strong running game and a big physical O-line, top defense, and Carson Palmer.
Vikings: Strong running game with a big physical O-line, top Defense, and Brett Favre.
Eagles: Andy Reid, Donovan McNabb, and a strong Defense.
Patriots: Tom Brady, ok running game, and a good O-line.
Jets: Best in the NFL Defense, best running game in the NFL because of a big physical O-line.
Colts: Peyton Manning, top 5 Defense, and the best O-line in the NFL.
Chargers: Phillip Rivers, Good running game with a big physical O-line, and a solid D.
Cowboys: Tony Romo, Huge offensive line, great running game, solid D.
Packers: Top 5 Defense, Aaron Rogers, strong running game, Big physical O-line.
Saints: Drew Brees, play making Defense, Strong running game, Good O-line.
Ravens: Big physical O-line, Good Defense, strong running game, and Joe Flaco.
Cardinals: Solid D, Kurt Warner, Big physical O-line.


Im pretty sure that list contains the top ten Qbs in the NFL, the 12 top offensive lines this season, and atleast half of the top 15 defenses in the NFL. We couldent run the ball the second half of the season because we had way to many injuries across the board. We need to focus on finding a left Guard and Center in the 10' draft. We also need more size on our defensive line, I dont know what happened to Ryan McBean but losing that kid killed our run stoping ability. I say Draft the kid (DT) out of Cal, and focus on the rebuilding a tatered O-line in 2-3.

Except that last year's OL got production out of seven count'em seven deep at the RB position. This year's RB was the McKid's first rounder. McKid is either too stupid or obstinant to recognize his running game doesn't work with the personnel he has and instead of adapting his "offensive genius" to the personnel available he insists on cramming square pegs in round holes with his jackass power running game. This OL is just fine for what it was put together for and McKid didn't put them in a position to succeed and that is a failure on McKid's part. Go ahead, revamp the OL for his game, that's fine. But Jesus weeping Christ utilize the talent that you've got for the best purposes you can you arrogant little asshat. Meanwhile, McKid's "guy" at QB throws the ball like a busted armed little girl so there's no deep threat and teams can load up on the run because they know Kyle isn't a consistant threat for the deep ball because Captain Checkdown has a noodle arm. Teams made Kyle Orton beat them down the stretch and McKid's protege' turned out to be exactly who we knew him to be...the career back up to Sexy Rex Grossman for a f'ing reason.

RaiderH8r
01-05-2010, 08:05 AM
Actually I think McD eluded to the fact that his first draft wasn't the perfect fit.

He discussed things such as acquiring free agents and draft prospects that fit their AFCW opponents. To me, that screams that drafting a 5'9 CB probably doesn't help when facing WRs in the AFCW. It also screams that he is willing to look at everything, including himself and improve. Scott Hastings said it best after McD's interview. "Damn, damn you McD. I want to be mad at you right now... but you're saying and doing all the right things."

So everybody in the football world knew that trading up for Fonzi Smith was the wrong move before it happened yet McKid gets a pass now for realizing now what he could have learned from anybody in the audience at the draft? Well Hastings has a greater tolerance for stupidity than I do.

Florida_Bronco
01-05-2010, 08:06 AM
Exorcising Shanahan's cancer from the team? What the **** are you talkng about?

Mike Shanahan was the winningest coach the Broncos have ever had. He won 2 Superbowl's for us...something no other coach could get done.

Just what ****ing cancer are you talking about. Mike will probably take the pathetic Redskins to the playoffs next year. What an idiotic statement on your part.

Look, I'm well aware of the success Shanny had here. I'm also aware of the mediocre teams he put on the field.

As for the cancer, I don't see why you even have to ask that question. Shanny coddled players too much (Cutler) , brought in too many questionable characters (MoC, Henry, Marshall...etc) and neglected the defense and it's players to the point where they felt like "second class citizens".

Feel free to doubt me all you want, but we have comments from consummate professionals like John Lynch and D.J Williams that confirm what was happening there in Denver, and it's not the type of thing that breeds a winning organization.

jhns
01-05-2010, 08:26 AM
Look, I'm well aware of the success Shanny had here. I'm also aware of the mediocre teams he put on the field.

As for the cancer, I don't see why you even have to ask that question. Shanny coddled players too much (Cutler) , brought in too many questionable characters (MoC, Henry, Marshall...etc) and neglected the defense and it's players to the point where they felt like "second class citizens".

Feel free to doubt me all you want, but we have comments from consummate professionals like John Lynch and D.J Williams that confirm what was happening there in Denver, and it's not the type of thing that breeds a winning organization.

We had those same type of players during our SB years and I bet you love them. Fact is, this is a sport of big dumb guys. Personalities to not play a role in anything other than giving the media and drama queens something to talk about. As long as your team isn't fighting amongst themselves, there isn't a problem.

He neglected the defense? What, for his last 3 years? I suggest you go look because he had top 10 defenses until the last 3 years. Your arguments are lame and I can't believe a Bronco fan would go out of their way to talk bad about Shanahan. He made this organization what it is. We would be no better than the Chargers if it weren't for him.

SportinOne
01-05-2010, 08:36 AM
I don't know. This is just weird. Why is everything surrounding McDaniels so unclear? Do other teams go through this? I really want to know. Shanahan disciplined players but you always knew what was going on. It seems like every time McDaniels disciplines someone there are always refuting reports from either players or media.

Brandon Marshall is a lot of things, but, ask yourself this: Does Brandon Marshall really seem like the type of guy who would pack in and not play in a game that was that important? I really don't think so. My guess is that there is no way he could play the game and McDaniels took it as an opportunity to display his authority, for team building purposes or not.

Florida_Bronco
01-05-2010, 08:37 AM
We had those same type of players during our SB years Really? Name them.

He neglected the defense? What, for his last 3 years? I suggest you go look because he had top 10 defenses until the last 3 years. Yeah, the last 3 years. You know, those last 3 years where we missed the playoffs?

As for those top 10 defenses, yeah they were pretty good during the SB years and immediately after that, but Shanahan let them deteriorate. Luckily we had a very good DC in Larry Coyer who was able to gameplan around alot of their deficiencies, but that didn't work once we faced legitimately talented teams (Colts in the playoffs, anyone?).

Your arguments are lame Actually they are dead on and supported with the direct quotes of players who were there watching it happen.

and I can't believe a Bronco fan would go out of their way to talk bad about Shanahan. Who is talking bad about Shanahan? I love the guy for bringing us the Super Bowls and think he's the 3rd best thing to ever happen to the Broncos behind Elway and Bowlen, but the guy had lost his touch and there were a laundry list of problems with the way he was running this team the last 5 years or so.

Stating that isn't hating on him, it's just calling it like I see it.

He made this organization what it is. We would be no better than the Chargers if it weren't for him. Believe it or not we had some pretty good teams before Shanahan, and we'll have some good teams even now that he's gone.

SportinOne
01-05-2010, 08:41 AM
We had those same type of players during our SB years and I bet you love them. Fact is, this is a sport of big dumb guys. Personalities to not play a role in anything other than giving the media and drama queens something to talk about. As long as your team isn't fighting amongst themselves, there isn't a problem.

He neglected the defense? What, for his last 3 years? I suggest you go look because he had top 10 defenses until the last 3 years. Your arguments are lame and I can't believe a Bronco fan would go out of their way to talk bad about Shanahan. He made this organization what it is. We would be no better than the Chargers if it weren't for him.

Personality ALWAYS has something to do with team success. That's exactly why New England won super bowls.

jhns
01-05-2010, 08:43 AM
Really? Name them.

Yeah, the last 3 years. You know, those last 3 years where we missed the playoffs?

As for those top 10 defenses, yeah they were pretty good during the SB years and immediately after that, but Shanahan let them deteriorate. Luckily we had a very good DC in Larry Coyer who was able to gameplan around alot of their deficiencies, but that didn't work once we faced legitimately talented teams (Colts in the playoffs, anyone?).

Actually they are dead on and supported with the direct quotes of players who were there watching it happen.

Who is talking bad about Shanahan? I love the guy for bringing us the Super Bowls and think he's the 3rd best thing to ever happen to the Broncos behind Elway and Bowlen, but the guy had lost his touch and there were a laundry list of problems with the way he was running this team the last 5 years or so.

Stating that isn't hating on him, it's just calling it like I see it.

Believe it or not we had some pretty good teams before Shanahan, and we'll have some good teams even now that he's gone.

Every organization has good teams. Shanahan won us SBs. Again, we would be no better than the Chargers if not for Shanhan.

So he had 3 years of bad defense in 15 and he was a cancer to the team? Riiiight....

As for the players that are like the ones you named, that's easy. I can name two without thinking. Romo and Sharpe.....

Florida_Bronco
01-05-2010, 09:17 AM
Every organization has good teams. Shanahan won us SBs. Again, we would be no better than the Chargers if not for Shanhan.

So he had 3 years of bad defense in 15 and he was a cancer to the team? Riiiight... So what would you call it then? The locker room was effectively split between the offense the defense, his good friend was given years to turn around the defense when a proven DC was effectively fired 6 weeks into his first season and he sat around while Bates and his buddy Cutler called the offense like it was Madden and cost us games.

As for the players that are like the ones you named, that's easy. I can name two without thinking. Romo and Sharpe..... Romo is the exact opposite of a me first player. I don't see how you could come to that conclusion. Sharpe was a team first guy too despite the fact he liked to run his mouth alot.

Popps
01-05-2010, 09:24 AM
E
As for the players that are like the ones you named, that's easy. I can name two without thinking. Romo and Sharpe.....

Do you even watch football?

WolfpackGuy
01-05-2010, 09:27 AM
Personality ALWAYS has something to do with team success. That's exactly why New England won super bowls.

3 Super Bowls by 3 points each.

"Roll that beautiful bean footage of the defense's signals!"

jhns
01-05-2010, 09:28 AM
So what would you call it then? The locker room was effectively split between the offense the defense, his good friend was given years to turn around the defense when a proven DC was effectively fired 6 weeks into his first season and he sat around while Bates and his buddy Cutler called the offense like it was Madden and cost us games.

Romo is the exact opposite of a me first player. I don't see how you could come to that conclusion. Sharpe was a team first guy too despite the fact he liked to run his mouth alot.

Those are both players that were or would be crap talked in the media as questionable personalities. Shanahan never had a problem with those types because they aren't a problem until you let them be one.

I would call it a few down years that we were rebuilding. He was not a cancer. He had 2 total seasons under .500 his entire time here. Obviously you haven't seen other teams down years and what a cancer does. Some dispute the rebuild but we replaced about 90 percent of the roster from 05-07. He had a few things, like signings and coaches, that went wrong. That doesn't make him a cancer. If McDaniels has another 8 win season, are you going to call him a cancer?

TailgateNut
01-05-2010, 09:29 AM
Do you even watch football?

You must excuse the little one. He was the ripe age of 6 when Sharpe started playing and got his first piece of *** when Sharpe retired. BUT he knows everything, because he read it in a book!Hilarious!

jhns
01-05-2010, 09:31 AM
3 Super Bowls by 3 points each.

"Roll that beautiful bean footage of the defense's signals!"

Exactly, even the coach was a questionable personality on that team. They also had multiple players that these guys would complain about if they got to know them. They have even gotten rid of a few that eventually demanded contracts and did other me-first things. Those players still won them SBs.

Popps
01-05-2010, 09:32 AM
Tell you what, if we DID have Romo on this current team... he would have likely poppepd Brandy in the mouth the first time he tried his "I'm chilly and excusing myself from practice" routine.

I mean, can you see the look on Romo's face if some idiot said something like that back in the day?

jhns
01-05-2010, 09:33 AM
Do you even watch football?

LOL So you are going to dispute that? Figures.

Also, what does watching football have to do with knowing their personalities? That doesn't even make sense. I didn't comment on play.... I think it is time to grow a brain popps. Your stupid is showing.

TailgateNut
01-05-2010, 09:36 AM
Tell you what, if we DID have Romo on this current team... he would have likely poppepd Brandy in the mouth the first time he tried his "I'm chilly and excusing myself from practice" routine.

I mean, can you see the look on Romo's face if some idiot said something like that back in the day?

Bingo.

Don't confuse jhns, he'll have to run to wiki or the local puplic library to look up Bronco history and then get back to you at a later date.

Although Brandon has so much potential, his negative outweigh any positives. It's just a matter of time before he makes the national headlines with another non-football related incident! Mark my words!

jhns
01-05-2010, 09:38 AM
Tell you what, if we DID have Romo on this current team... he would have likely poppepd Brandy in the mouth the first time he tried his "I'm chilly and excusing myself from practice" routine.

I mean, can you see the look on Romo's face if some idiot said something like that back in the day?

Then he would shoot up some roids and tell an o-linemen he was going to eat their babies.

You have to be kidding with this... Romo and Sharpe would be eaten alive in todays media and you would follow it just like you do for everything else.

Taco John
01-05-2010, 09:47 AM
I can see both sides here. The Broncos medical staff let Brandon down last year, and this year is his money year. If that event hadn't happened, then this would be very cut and dried for me. But I can't blame a guy for being cautious in light of that when he's got the entire future of his family (even unborn family) riding on his well being.

This is the kind of risk that a team takes when they leave a player who is outperforming their contract unpaid.

This whole thing really should have been kept as an internal issue. I don't think Josh did the organization any favors by making it public.

Florida_Bronco
01-05-2010, 09:55 AM
Those are both players that were or would be crap talked in the media as questionable personalities. Who gives a flying **** what the media thinks. Guys like Marshall and Scheffler were such distractions that the team leaders went to McD and told him something needs to be done. Do you think that ever happened with Sharpe and Romo?

Shanahan never had a problem with those types because they aren't a problem until you let them be one. Shanahan never had a problem with "those types" because that's not what Sharpe and Romo were, and then in his later years he coddled "those types" in Cutler, Scheffler and Marshall.

I would call it a few down years that we were rebuilding. He was not a cancer. He had 2 total seasons under .500 his entire time here. Obviously you haven't seen other teams down years and what a cancer does. Some dispute the rebuild but we replaced about 90 percent of the roster from 05-07. He had a few things, like signings and coaches, that went wrong. That doesn't make him a cancer. Mike was a great X's and O's type coach, but the culture he fostered here in Denver was most certainly a cancer.

I mean, do you REALLY think some players didn't pick up on the message when Shanny demoted Bates (a proven DC) 6 weeks into 2007 and then was going to bring back Slowik after a year and a half of making the defense worse? It told players like Cutler/Marshall/Scheffler that as long as you're one of the coaches favorites, you really don't have to be accountable. It also brought up the "second class citizens" comments you heard from the defensive players.


If McDaniels has another 8 win season, are you going to call him a cancer? I judge Shanahan to be a cancer by irrefutable facts related to the culture around the team, not his win/loss record. The same will hold true for McDaniels.

kamakazi_kal
01-05-2010, 09:59 AM
It's funny, because now you look at this and say... here's a guy (Marshall) that basically was done playing and said so, after getting the Pro Bowl nod. So, McDaniels made a statement, apparently to appeal to his team leaders.

Making the best of a bad situation?

Seems a tad harsh. Not the sheff thing, that I get. Marsh was late not to practice, not to meetings but to get treatment on an injury.

Where was it Marshall said "I'm done playing"?

jhns
01-05-2010, 10:03 AM
Who gives a flying **** what the media thinks. Guys like Marshall and Scheffler were such distractions that the team leaders went to McD and told him something needs to be done. Do you think that ever happened with Sharpe and Romo?

Shanahan never had a problem with "those types" because that's not what Sharpe and Romo were, and then in his later years he coddled "those types" in Cutler, Scheffler and Marshall.

Mike was a great X's and O's type coach, but the culture he fostered here in Denver was most certainly a cancer.

I mean, do you REALLY think some players didn't pick up on the message when Shanny demoted Bates (a proven DC) 6 weeks into 2007 and then was going to bring back Slowik after a year and a half of making the defense worse? It told players like Cutler/Marshall/Scheffler that as long as you're one of the coaches favorites, you really don't have to be accountable. It also brought up the "second class citizens" comments you heard from the defensive players.


I judge Shanahan to be a cancer by irrefutable facts related to the culture around the team, not his win/loss record. The same will hold true for McDaniels.

So now Cutler is this type to? How was he anything other than team first? Because he got mad about McD trying to trade him away? The fact that he did all he could, including working all of every offseason, for the team means nothing?

You guys are kidding yourselves. Marshall is another level but he is not the only one you are naming. We have had many questionable personalities. We had them when we won the SBs and we had them when Mike left. McDaniels can't deal with players and now suddenly all these guys are a problem. The only two that you even have an argument about are Marshall and Sheffler. That is for them dogging it. Everyone else you named and were talking about was no different than many we had on the SB teams.

As for your Shanahan hate, good luck with that.


Edit: I would also like to add that you are also dogging McDaniels here. He knew what these players were like before this season ever started. Neither makes much money and both could be cut without being cap trouble. If these types of players hurt teams, McDaniels is just as guilty of keeping them around to destroy this years team.

jhns
01-05-2010, 10:07 AM
Seems a tad harsh. Not the sheff thing, that I get. Marsh was late not to practice, not to meetings but to get treatment on an injury.

Where was it Marshall said "I'm done playing"?

He didn't. Popps has to make stuff up to validate his arguments. I'm not sure why you would need to do that with Marshall though...

Popps
01-05-2010, 10:34 AM
Seems a tad harsh. Not the sheff thing, that I get. Marsh was late not to practice, not to meetings but to get treatment on an injury.

Where was it Marshall said "I'm done playing"?

Well, let's see... he claims to have had an injury that no one seems to be able to validate. His own teammates apparently think he's full of ****. He skips therapy sessions for his alleged hamstring injury that he hurt jogging in practice.

Oh, then there's this...

The latest showdown between the head coach and the Pro Bowl receiver actually began the week before when Marshall excused himself from practice, complaining the cold weather was making it difficult for him to breathe
-ESPN.

Then there's the widely speculated notion that he didn't play all out against Philly... and that once the Pro Bowl vote came in mid-week, that was the end of his interest in playing this year.

Oh, and finally... there's the little detail that Brandy already quit on the team once this year when he was pouty about his paychecks.


So, you can take that mountain of evidence (both tangible and circumstantial) and either ignore it, or draw a fairly obvious conclusion.


How many times in your life can you recall a group of vets on a team going to a coach and basically TELLING HIM they don't want to play with a guy.

You think that's just a coincidence?

jhns
01-05-2010, 10:39 AM
Well, let's see... he claims to have had an injury that no one seems to be able to validate. His own teammates apparently think he's full of ****. He skips therapy sessions for his alleged hamstring injury that he hurt jogging in practice.

Oh, then there's this...

The latest showdown between the head coach and the Pro Bowl receiver actually began the week before when Marshall excused himself from practice, complaining the cold weather was making it difficult for him to breathe
-ESPN.

Then there's the widely speculated notion that he didn't play all out against Philly... and that once the Pro Bowl vote came in mid-week, that was the end of his interest in playing this year.

Oh, and finally... there's the little detail that Brandy already quit on the team once this year when he was pouty about his paychecks.


So, you can take that mountain of evidence (both tangible and circumstantial) and either ignore it, or draw a fairly obvious conclusion.


How many times in your life can you recall a group of vets on a team going to a coach and basically TELLING HIM they don't want to play with a guy.

You think that's just a coincidence?

I think you are believing any rumor you can dig up from anywhere. You are then speculating on a few things and making up a few other things. If you think you are making good conclusions from that, there isn't much we can do to help you.

Popps
01-05-2010, 10:57 AM
I think you are believing any rumor you can dig up from anywhere. You are then speculating on a few things and making up a few other things. If you think you are making good conclusions from that, there isn't much we can do to help you.

I see.

You can't refute anything anyone is saying, so you just call people liars?

I didn't print these stories.

I didn't gather up Bailey, Dawkins and the rest of the vets and tell McDaniels to sit Marshall.

I didn't make Brandy quit on the team one time already this year.



Then again, you're the guy telling us Broncos fans that one of our most well-known team leaders during the SB years was a discipline problem.


Again, I'm guessing you don't really watch the game... you just hang out here to pick arguments? You seem to have a real problem gathering and accepting factual information.

kamakazi_kal
01-05-2010, 11:06 AM
Well, let's see... he claims to have had an injury that no one seems to be able to validate. His own teammates apparently think he's full of ****. He skips therapy sessions for his alleged hamstring injury that he hurt jogging in practice.

Oh, then there's this...

The latest showdown between the head coach and the Pro Bowl receiver actually began the week before when Marshall excused himself from practice, complaining the cold weather was making it difficult for him to breathe
-ESPN.

Then there's the widely speculated notion that he didn't play all out against Philly... and that once the Pro Bowl vote came in mid-week, that was the end of his interest in playing this year.

Oh, and finally... there's the little detail that Brandy already quit on the team once this year when he was pouty about his paychecks.


So, you can take that mountain of evidence (both tangible and circumstantial) and either ignore it, or draw a fairly obvious conclusion.


How many times in your life can you recall a group of vets on a team going to a coach and basically TELLING HIM they don't want to play with a guy.

You think that's just a coincidence?


Ok. So allot of apparently and alleged. In the post article about this they went out of their was to state is was not player specific ...... so are you drawing your own conclusions on this or what?

The breathing thing sounds like bull but Hammys and WR don't mix. Can you really trust when the medical staff says we can't find anything and he's fine?

Don't worry he'll be gone soon enough then you can light your cross on someone elses lawn.

Florida_Bronco
01-05-2010, 11:10 AM
So now Cutler is this type to? How was he anything other than team first? Because he got mad about McD trying to trade him away? The fact that he did all he could, including working all of every offseason, for the team means nothing? Yes, Cutler is that type. Is there any real question about that after Cutler did everything he could to drive a wedge between the team and McDaniels so he could get his way? Hell, he embodies everything about "those types" and why I'm glad McD booted him out on his ass.

You guys are kidding yourselves. Marshall is another level but he is not the only one you are naming. Yes, Marshall is not quite as bad as Cutler. He's harmed this team with his jackass moments, but never intentionally (IMO) while Cutler intentionally tried to divide the team and fanbase for his benefit.

We have had many questionable personalities. We had them when we won the SBs Again, name them.

McDaniels can't deal with players and now suddenly all these guys are a problem. Really? I'd say McDaniels is dealing with them just fine. Act like a ****ing sandy vagina and your ass is sitting on the bench. I ****ing applaud him for that.

Cutler wasn't a problem? Well yeah, because he was Mike's boy and Mike let him do whatever the **** he wanted. Don't believe me? Read the article where John Lynch said as much. Scheffler was probably the same way.

As for Marshall not being a problem? How many times had he been arrested now?

The only two that you even have an argument about are Marshall and Sheffler. That's because they're the only ones who are being problems and haven't bought into what McD is trying to do. Gotta love how you just destroyed your own "he can't handle the players" argument.

Everyone else you named and were talking about was no different than many we had on the SB teams. And once again, I say "name em".

As for your Shanahan hate, good luck with that. No you're just being thick headed. I've stated repeatedly how I feel about Shanahan despite his screw ups the last few years.

Edit: I would also like to add that you are also dogging McDaniels here. He knew what these players were like before this season ever started. Neither makes much money and both could be cut without being cap trouble. If these types of players hurt teams, McDaniels is just as guilty of keeping them around to destroy this years team.

Swing, and a miss. Marshall acted out in the preseason and got suspended, then was a model citizen until recently. Scheffler was pissed about losing his boyfriend to Chicago, but he basically kept his mouth shut until after the Eagles game.

Florida_Bronco
01-05-2010, 11:12 AM
I think you are believing any rumor you can dig up from anywhere. Says the guy who still believes we tried to trade Jay Cutler despite guys like Adam Schefter coming out and saying it's bunk.

jhns
01-05-2010, 11:29 AM
Says the guy who still believes we tried to trade Jay Cutler despite guys like Adam Schefter coming out and saying it's bunk.

Didn't we get two firsts, a third, and Orton for him?

Popps
01-05-2010, 11:30 AM
Don't worry he'll be gone soon enough then you can light your cross on someone elses lawn.

:spit:

Awesome!

White people are da bomb!!!!

Drek
01-05-2010, 11:31 AM
So now Cutler is this type to? How was he anything other than team first? Because he got mad about McD trying to trade him away? The fact that he did all he could, including working all of every offseason, for the team means nothing?

You guys are kidding yourselves. Marshall is another level but he is not the only one you are naming. We have had many questionable personalities. We had them when we won the SBs and we had them when Mike left. McDaniels can't deal with players and now suddenly all these guys are a problem. The only two that you even have an argument about are Marshall and Sheffler. That is for them dogging it. Everyone else you named and were talking about was no different than many we had on the SB teams.

As for your Shanahan hate, good luck with that.


Edit: I would also like to add that you are also dogging McDaniels here. He knew what these players were like before this season ever started. Neither makes much money and both could be cut without being cap trouble. If these types of players hurt teams, McDaniels is just as guilty of keeping them around to destroy this years team.

Cutler has had issues about accountability and being a leader since day one. Just because Shanahan made excuses for it doesn't change who Cutler was and still is, just now on a different team.

His problems didn't start with McDaniels, his public problems started when Shanahan was let go and he started acting like he had the right to make demands about who stays and who goes. He's a player, not a GM or owner. His agent only exacerbated the problem.

In short, Cutler is a Brett Favre personality with Brett Favre's management but not nearly the results on the football field. That isn't a good thing.

He isn't Marshall by any stretch though, who is quickly blossoming into the next T.O. level headcase WR.

Mike Shanahan won titles here by reigning in a few wild personalities who when brought in where surrounded by stable veteran leadership. Guys like Elway, Atwater, etc. who had HOF or borderline HOF careers under their belts and weren't afraid to step on toes and put foot to ass when someone wasn't doing what was best for the team.

After those guys fully departed you can see Shanahan constantly trying to recapture that same kind of success through similar methods, but without that leadership base in the locker room there was no accountability and more problematic busts than successful turnarounds. Dale Carter, IHOP, Travis Henry, and Eddie Kennison are examples of his projects who in some way flaked out. He tolerated a self serving attitude in the locker room for much of his final tenure here, is it really that surprising to see the young guys brought into that kind of environment showing similar self serving tendencies?

McDaniels' #1 attempt here has been to build a team first locker room. Marshall, Scheffler, and the like have too much talent for him to give up on and he tried to bring them into the fold. They obviously are unwilling to change those tendencies, or at least where up to this point.

It takes time to change a locker room mentality as drastically as this one needs but until McDaniels does that this team will not succeed in today's NFL.

Popps
01-05-2010, 11:34 AM
Ok. So allot of apparently and alleged. In the post article about this they went out of their was to state is was not player specific ...... so are you drawing your own conclusions on this or what?
.

Ummm... no.

The vets on the team requested that our coach removed him. (Dawkins, Bailey, etc.)

It's probably because they are a bunch of racist, cross-burners.

Then there's that little detail about Brandy quitting once already this season.

I mean, he's got such a clean history. Why would anyone doubt him?


But, you just keep plugging your ears there, sport. I'm sure this is all just a big lie perpetrated by racists.

LOL

jhns
01-05-2010, 11:34 AM
I see.

You can't refute anything anyone is saying, so you just call people liars?

I didn't print these stories.

I didn't gather up Bailey, Dawkins and the rest of the vets and tell McDaniels to sit Marshall.

I didn't make Brandy quit on the team one time already this year.



Then again, you're the guy telling us Broncos fans that one of our most well-known team leaders during the SB years was a discipline problem.


Again, I'm guessing you don't really watch the game... you just hang out here to pick arguments? You seem to have a real problem gathering and accepting factual information.

Who said anything about a discipline problem? What facts are you showing? Even your sources know those aren't facts and you claim they are?

You haven't even shown anything that says those guys wanted Marshall sat. They asked for accountability. Marshall then showed up late to a rehab and was sat. Everything else you pulled is speculation and rumor. I get that you can't see this because you obviously don't have the brain power. You may want to learn what a fact is before you continue making yourself look dumb.

Popps
01-05-2010, 12:07 PM
Who said anything about a discipline problem?

The courts, the league and the organization. Anyone I'm forgetting?

Oh, the women he smacked. (Allegedly)

Even your sources know those aren't facts and you claim they are? .

Really? The team didn't suspend him? The league didn't suspend him? The vets that are saying they went to the coach to have him benched didn't do what they say they did?


You haven't even shown anything that says those guys wanted Marshall sat. .

Right, except for the fact that he sat... and the vets went to the coach and asked him to demand "accountability." Did you even listen to Orton's interview? Did you listen to the coach?

was sat. Everything else you pulled is speculation and rumor. .

I've pulled well-reported facts, mixed with well-reported and undisputed speculation. I have not heard one source refute any of it.

You, on the other hand... are telling us that Bill Romanowski was a discipline problem.

Hilarious!

TailgateNut
01-05-2010, 12:13 PM
You, on the other hand... are telling us that Bill Romanowski was a discipline problem.

Hilarious!

Considering the amount of **** jhns pulls from his ass, you would think it would be visible from outer space. A landmark of sorts.

ZONA
01-05-2010, 12:14 PM
Marshall's a very good player, but throwing the ball was not the Broncos problem yesterday.

Well, I think 3 INT's with 2 of them being returned for TD's was a very big problem. Marshall could not have done anything about that nor could the defense. Those plays all had a MAJOR impact on the game. A HUGE impact.

jhns
01-05-2010, 12:16 PM
The courts, the league and the organization. Anyone I'm forgetting?

Oh, the women he smacked. (Allegedly)



Really? The team didn't suspend him? The league didn't suspend him? The vets that are saying they went to the coach to have him benched didn't do what they say they did?



Right, except for the fact that he sat... and the vets went to the coach and asked him to demand "accountability." Did you even listen to Orton's interview? Did you listen to the coach?



I've pulled well-reported facts, mixed with well-reported and undisputed speculation. I have not heard one source refute any of it.

You, on the other hand... are telling us that Bill Romanowski was a discipline problem.

Hilarious!

The one agument was about questionable characters and personalities, not discipline problems. Also, how is using roids not a discipline problem? Did that suddenly become legal in the NFL? How about punching multiple players and breaking a guys eye socket? How about when he spit in a guys face? Are these traits of a good character guy? Is all of this showing how diciplined he was?

I have seen and heard everything you have. Again, they asked for accountability, Marshall was late for rehab and sat. All of the other stuff is rumor and speculation. Sheffler was sat as well. How do you know they weren't talking about him?

You have not pulled facts. It is pretty funny that you are now defending them as facts. You then even admit there is speculation, and those are also facts.... LOL Good stuff popps.

Edit: I would also like to add that I loved Romo and Sharpe as players. I just am using them as examples of character issues not hurting a team. These were great players that won us a couple SBs. I figured I would add this so I'm not just talking bad about them.

Popps
01-05-2010, 12:57 PM
The one agument was about questionable characters and personalities, not discipline problems. Also, how is using roids not a discipline problem? .

Umm... Romo's steroid use started in 2001, by his own admission.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2190441

Romo was widely known as one of the leaders on our championship defense and his banned substance use wasn't remotely an issue during the SB run.

Like I said, you sound like maybe you haven't watched the game long? A few reps I've received say you're a kid, so that would make sense. Maybe you should spend less time arguing with people who have watched the game longer than you, and actually try to get your facts straight before continuing to embarrass yourself with comments like... "Bill Romanowski was a discipline problem for the Broncos."

Florida_Bronco
01-05-2010, 12:57 PM
Didn't we get two firsts, a third, and Orton for him?

Yeah, after he had gone on his little hissy fit and cut off all communication from the team.

Luckily we raped the Bears in that trade.

The one agument was about questionable characters and personalities, not discipline problems. Also, how is using roids not a discipline problem? Did that suddenly become legal in the NFL? How about punching multiple players and breaking a guys eye socket? How about when he spit in a guys face? Are these traits of a good character guy? Is all of this showing how diciplined he was?
None of the issues Romo had ever did anything to hurt the Broncos. Stokes (the guy who got spit on) was taunting Romo when that incident happened, and the steroid issue came up after he had left the Broncos.

Edit: I would also like to add that I loved Romo and Sharpe as players. I just am using them as examples of character issues not hurting a team. These were great players that won us a couple SBs. I figured I would add this so I'm not just talking bad about them. How was Sharpe a "character issue"?

Florida_Bronco
01-05-2010, 12:59 PM
A few reps I've received say you're a kid, so that would make sense. According to his profile he is 25, making him 2 years older than me, so he don't get to use age as an excuse. ;D

Popps
01-05-2010, 01:02 PM
How was Sharpe a "character issue"?

Romo and Sharp were two of the most respected teammates and leaders on that championship team. Romo was feared and respected.

To claim these guy were "discipline problems" is the peak of idiocy.

But, we're clearly dealing with someone who never watched the games, or followed the team back then.

jhns
01-05-2010, 01:06 PM
Umm... Romo's steroid use started in 2001, by his own admission.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2190441

Romo was widely known as one of the leaders on our championship defense and his banned substance use wasn't remotely an issue during the SB run.

Like I said, you sound like maybe you haven't watched the game long? A few reps I've received say you're a kid, so that would make sense. Maybe you should spend less time arguing with people who have watched the game longer than you, and actually try to get your facts straight before continuing to embarrass yourself with comments like... "Bill Romanowski was a discipline problem for the Broncos."

Again, you are not reading very well. Anyways, how about his punching guys and spitting in their faces? Romo was also widely known to have character issues. Nice dodge on that part....

You come with these arguments and then say my arguments need improved? Nice. Do you want to go over what a fact is again? Do you want to go over when I said this quote: "Bill Romanowski was a discipline problem for the Broncos."? Maybe you are the one that should stop arguing until you are able to read.

Also, reps from guys like tailgate mean nothing. Those girls got their feelings hurt in past arguments and now follow me around constantly posting about me. It is a pathetic and funny site to see such old men act like such jilted teenage girls.

Popps
01-05-2010, 01:06 PM
Oh, and if memory serves... Romo was a captain for at least 3 seasons?

Yea... real discipline problem.

Teammates and coaches usually vote a guy captain when he's a discipline problem.

Popps
01-05-2010, 01:08 PM
Again, you are not reading very well.

Nah.

You're just have your facts wrong, kid.

Romo was a 3-time captain on a championship defense.

You simply don't know what you're talking about, and are embarrassing yourself.

jhns
01-05-2010, 01:11 PM
Nah.

You're just have your facts wrong, kid.

Romo was a 3-time captain on a championship defense.

You simply don't know what you're talking about, and are embarrassing yourself.

So, what part of punching other players and spitting on them in games says good character to you?

I simply do know what I'm talking about as you guys act dumb. You are only proving my point. Bad character means nothing on the football field and can actually be a good thing. Thanks for helping my argument popps.

rastaman
01-05-2010, 01:25 PM
Tell you what, if we DID have Romo on this current team... he would have likely poppepd Brandy in the mouth the first time he tried his "I'm chilly and excusing myself from practice" routine.

I mean, can you see the look on Romo's face if some idiot said something like that back in the day?

One would also have to question whether Romo would have gone publicly with his dismay of playing for a "Plastic" inexperienced Rookie HC. Who knows Romo may have gone up to McD and "Spit" in his face!

Face it Popps.....McD has had his Idiot and Incompetent moments as well.

rastaman
01-05-2010, 01:27 PM
Nah.

You're just have your facts wrong, kid.

Romo was a 3-time captain on a championship defense.

You simply don't know what you're talking about, and are embarrassing yourself.

I doubt very seriously that Romo could have played for McD.

Florida_Bronco
01-05-2010, 01:31 PM
Anyways, how about his punching guys and spitting in their faces? He punched and spat players on the other team. That never effected the Bronco's locker room.

Romo was also widely known to have character issues. Not within the team he wasn't. He was regarded as a loose cannon on the field though.

jhns
01-05-2010, 01:52 PM
He punched and spat players on the other team. That never effected the Bronco's locker room.

Not within the team he wasn't. He was regarded as a loose cannon on the field though.

What is with all of you trying to twist the argument now? Here is your original list, it is a direct quote: "(MoC, Henry, Marshall...etc)".... Really now.... So what did Clerett(no idea on the spelling) do to hurt the Broncos locker room?

Let me make my argument again so this is clear. Shanahan has always had guys of questionable character, even during the SBs. Romo broke a guys eye socket and ended his career. He punched multiple other players. He spit in a players face. These are not things done by a good character individual. My entire argument is that bad character doesn't mean they hurt the locker room so of course I don't think Romo hurt the locker room. He wouldn't be a good example then. He still was a bad character player on the SB teams.

Now, after Shanahan leaves, these guys are all suddenly locker room cancers and causing problems.... Well that just takes me back to what I originally said. McDaniels doesn't know how to deal with players. If they are a problem, they shouldn't be here. Shanahan never kept anyone around that he couldn't control. He kept a lot of questionable character guys in check. These are things the rookie coach needs to figure out.

jhat01
01-05-2010, 02:04 PM
He sure kept IHOP in check right? Didn't that slug Gardener coin the phrase "Little man upstairs"?

Popps
01-05-2010, 02:07 PM
So, what part of punching other players and spitting on them in games says good character to you?.

We weren't talking about "good character," we were talking about a team leader. You claimed he was a "discipline problem." He was a 3-time team captain and ANYTHING but a discipline problem.

As I said, when you don't know your team history, you tend to step in crap when you get in conversations like this.

Stick to name-calling until you can learn team history.

jhns
01-05-2010, 02:11 PM
We weren't talking about "good character," we were talking about a team leader. You claimed he was a "discipline problem." He was a 3-time team captain and ANYTHING but a discipline problem.

As I said, when you don't know your team history, you tend to step in crap when you get in conversations like this.

Stick to name-calling until you can learn team history.

No popps, we were talking about character issues. Who knows what you keep going on about but that is what everyone else was arguing. Here is the original list of examples, posted by someone else, that started this. "(MoC, Henry, Marshall...etc)". How is this talking about what they did here when one never played here? Which of these guys fit your team leader argument? How does your argument make sense with this list? Oh right, it doesn't. Poor popps can't keep up.

You still claim punching other players and spitting in their faces is not a discipline issue? Man, I would love to have grown up in your house.

How about I stick to name calling(?) while knowing team history?

RaiderH8r
01-05-2010, 02:18 PM
Accountability...like Graham dropping passes because he's got his hands full robbing the Broncos for his $5 mil/year. Accountability like producing 1 TD all year. That kind of accountability Daniel?

Accountability like sending a 1st round pick to move up to take a second rate talent in the second round accountability McKid? Then signing the Ghost of Ty Law's Career to come in to play nickel because Fonzi couldn't cover a turd pile in a phone booth accountability?

DBroncos4life
01-05-2010, 02:22 PM
He punched and spat players on the other team. That never effected the Bronco's locker room.

Not within the team he wasn't. He was regarded as a loose cannon on the field though.

He has hit team-mates before. This is the classic case of "well I know he is a thug but he is our thug so its OK." Bill was a hell of a player for us and for that I love him.

Florida_Bronco
01-05-2010, 03:05 PM
What is with all of you trying to twist the argument now? Here is your original list, it is a direct quote: "(MoC, Henry, Marshall...etc)".... Really now.... So what did Clerett(no idea on the spelling) do to hurt the Broncos locker room? There is no twisted argument at all. As for Clarett, I'd say drinking in the locker room is a pretty big concern as well as his reported half assed attitude.

Let me make my argument again so this is clear. Shanahan has always had guys of questionable character even during the SBs Yet you can't name them.

Romo broke a guys eye socket and ended his career. After he left Denver.

He punched multiple other players. Players of other teams.

He spit in a players face. An opposing player that was taunting him.

These are not things done by a good character individual. My entire argument is that bad character doesn't mean they hurt the locker room so of course I don't think Romo hurt the locker room. He wouldn't be a good example then. He still was a bad character player on the SB teams. Romo was a leader on and off the field for this team. None of his baggage was ever dumped on the team.

Now, after Shanahan leaves, these guys are all suddenly locker room cancers and causing problems... Of course. He let his little offensive "superstars" do whatever the **** they wanted. It was fine with him, even though the defense felt like second class citizens.

Well that just takes me back to what I originally said. McDaniels doesn't know how to deal with players. If they are a problem, they shouldn't be here. McDaniels is handling them the way they need to be handled. Fall in line or get a one way ticket to the bench.

Shanahan never kept anyone around that he couldn't control. A single player (Brandon Marshall) proves this statement false.

He kept a lot of questionable character guys in check. Like who?

These are things the rookie coach needs to figure out. Josh has got it figured out perfectly. Come down hard on them when they **** up and if they don't straighten out, boot them the **** out of town.

Florida_Bronco
01-05-2010, 03:07 PM
He has hit team-mates before. In Denver?

SureShot
01-05-2010, 03:07 PM
He punched and spat players on the other team. That never effected the Bronco's locker room.



Thats not true. Sharpe and the some of the black players were very offended.

barryr
01-05-2010, 03:14 PM
Shanahan did bring in Dale Carter and Leon Lett, which turned out to be huge failures, as well as Clarett and Gardener.

jhns
01-05-2010, 03:15 PM
LOL.... You guys crack me up. It is impossible to even try having a real debate on here.

"The guy that punched other players, spit in their faces, and used roids was a high character guy!"

Funny stuff.

"McDaniels is dealing with Marshall!"

Oh really? Is that why he is still causing problems? Is this something new to the end of this season? Why is he still on the team if McD gets rid of them for screwing up repeatedly?

Do you guys even try to think about your arguments?

Florida_Bronco
01-05-2010, 03:23 PM
Thats not true. Sharpe and the some of the black players were very offended.

I know he and Sharpe didn't like each other, but that's about the extent of any inter-team conflict that I'm aware of.

Oh really? Is that why he is still causing problems? He's not. The leaders told McD he was a problem and McD benched him.

Is this something new to the end of this season? Why is he still on the team if McD gets rid of them for screwing up repeatedly? Probably because there is a chance that it can still be worked out, and at the very least we'll get compensation for him if someone signs him during free agency.

Bronco Yoda
01-05-2010, 03:28 PM
LOL.... You guys crack me up. It is impossible to even try having a real debate on here.

"The guy that punched other players, spit in their faces, and used roids was a high character guy!"

Funny stuff.

"McDaniels is dealing with Marshall!"

Oh really? Is that why he is still causing problems? Is this something new to the end of this season? Why is he still on the team if McD gets rid of them for screwing up repeatedly?

Do you guys even try to think about your arguments?

It's good entertainment isn't it... LOL ROFL!

jhns
01-05-2010, 03:30 PM
I.

That's about as far as I got. When you want to have a real debate, look me up. I can't deal with the constant twisting of arguments as you are all proven wrong. It is far to hard to keep up with what I am supposed to be arguing at any given time.

The use of rumors as facts by you and popps has to be the best part of arguing with you though.

Florida_Bronco
01-05-2010, 03:34 PM
That's about as far as I got. When you want to have a real debate, look me up. I can't deal with the constant twisting of arguments as you are all proven wrong. It is far to hard to keep up with what I am supposed to be arguing at any given time.

Look me up when you want to start coddling douchebag superstars.

I won't hold my breath.

SureShot
01-05-2010, 03:35 PM
I know he and Sharpe didn't like each other, but that's about the extent of any inter-team conflict that I'm aware of.



Shannon Sharpe and Willie Green and others felt it had racial overtones. Let me refresh your memory.

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/01/21/sports/sports-of-the-times-a-temporary-truce-fits-broncos-plans.html

gyldenlove
01-05-2010, 03:35 PM
He's not. The leaders told McD he was a problem and McD benched him.


That is flat out not true. The meeting Mcdaniels had with a select few players most of the leaders in name only, was Monday.

The injury happened on Wednesday and the therapy session he was late for was Friday morning. Mcdaniels reacted to this Friday afternoon by doing the coaches decision press conference.

Unless you suggest that guys like Orton and Graham are prescient enough to predict 4 days ahead of time than Marshall would miss a therapy session for an injury he had yet to suffer but somehow can't predict a 250 lb linebacker in a white shirt jumping in front of a pass then you are wrong.

Archer81
01-05-2010, 03:39 PM
That is flat out not true. The meeting Mcdaniels had with a select few players most of the leaders in name only, was Monday.

The injury happened on Wednesday and the therapy session he was late for was Friday morning. Mcdaniels reacted to this Friday afternoon by doing the coaches decision press conference.

Unless you suggest that guys like Orton and Graham are prescient enough to predict 4 days ahead of time than Marshall would miss a therapy session for an injury he had yet to suffer but somehow can't predict a 250 lb linebacker in a white shirt jumping in front of a pass then you are wrong.


Or...the team leaders knew Marshall was dogging it before Hamstringgate and wanted McDaniels to stress accountability.

:Broncos:

jhns
01-05-2010, 03:39 PM
Look me up when you want to start coddling douchebag superstars.


Yeah, there is little chance I start coddling them. It will be a while before they let me be in charge of the team to coddle them.

Popps
01-05-2010, 03:52 PM
That is flat out not true. The meeting Mcdaniels had with a select few players most of the leaders in name only, was Monday.

The injury happened on Wednesday and the therapy session he was late for was Friday morning. Mcdaniels reacted to this Friday afternoon by doing the coaches decision press conference.

Unless you suggest that guys like Orton and Graham are prescient enough to predict 4 days ahead of time than Marshall would miss a therapy session for an injury he had yet to suffer but somehow can't predict a 250 lb linebacker in a white shirt jumping in front of a pass then you are wrong.


Not at all the timeline the coach and players gave. In fact, Orton stressed that there was conversation after the incident.

It's also been well-reported that there were multiple factors in the team wanting him held accountable.


I suppose just like him beating up his girlfriends, there's a great excuse for everything.

The guy has 9 lives. I'll give him that. Seems to be able to duck out of almost everything.




Anyway, like our last head-case, he's headed out of Denver, thankfully.

Florida_Bronco
01-05-2010, 03:56 PM
Shannon Sharpe and Willie Green and others felt it had racial overtones. Let me refresh your memory.

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/01/21/sports/sports-of-the-times-a-temporary-truce-fits-broncos-plans.html

Alright, so going by that story the incident brought some bad feelings that were then hashed out in a team meeting very shortly after.

That settles that.

That is flat out not true. The meeting Mcdaniels had with a select few players most of the leaders in name only, was Monday.

The injury happened on Wednesday and the therapy session he was late for was Friday morning. Mcdaniels reacted to this Friday afternoon by doing the coaches decision press conference.

Unless you suggest that guys like Orton and Graham are prescient enough to predict 4 days ahead of time than Marshall would miss a therapy session for an injury he had yet to suffer but somehow can't predict a 250 lb linebacker in a white shirt jumping in front of a pass then you are wrong. The leaders were pissed about Marshall dogging it in the Eagles game apparently.