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ZONA
01-03-2010, 10:10 PM
I think it was painfully aware today that using the #12 pick on Moreno was probably not the most brilliant of choices. I understand he's a rookie and he's done a decent job with the average at best run blocking in front of him but I think Charles showed us today that an explosive and fast back only needs that one seem in order to get huge yards. That puts so much pressure on a defense it's unreal. I really like Moreno's toughness but he just doesn't have the kind of top talent speed at RB to really cause big concerns for a defense. We absolutely could have got the same kind of performance from a 5th round pick as we got from Moreno. Not trying to bang on him, the dude is trying his best, but he just doesn't have the raw talent at this level to be special.

phillybroncosnut
01-03-2010, 10:13 PM
Have to agree... I hated the pick then, and still hate it (not Moreno, but, the choice to draft him with out first pick)

SureShot
01-03-2010, 10:15 PM
He reminds me of Mike Bell.

Killericon
01-03-2010, 10:15 PM
Man, he's a rookie! People were saying the same things about DeAngelo Williams after his rookie year.

strafen
01-03-2010, 10:15 PM
Have to agree... I hated the pick then, and still hate it (not Moreno, but, the choice to draft him with out first pick)My sentiments exactly...

TheDave
01-03-2010, 10:16 PM
I still have high hopes for the kid. Improve the blocking and use him more in the passing game.

NFLBRONCO
01-03-2010, 10:18 PM
Lets bolster interior line and judge him then

Broncoman13
01-03-2010, 10:19 PM
I think it was painfully aware today that using the #12 pick on Moreno was probably not the most brilliant of choices. I understand he's a rookie and he's done a decent job with the average at best run blocking in front of him but I think Charles showed us today that an explosive and fast back only needs that one seem in order to get huge yards. That puts so much pressure on a defense it's unreal. I really like Moreno's toughness but he just doesn't have the kind of top talent speed at RB to really cause big concerns for a defense. We absolutely could have got the same kind of performance from a 5th round pick as we got from Moreno. Not trying to bang on him, the dude is trying his best, but he just doesn't have the raw talent at this level to be special.

Charles is in year two... he showed glimpses (just as Moreno has) last year before exploding onto the scene this year. I'll eat my words next year if Moreno doesn't show up at about 225 and just a beast. This kid has a lot of promise. A new QB threat and a change at LG will do him wonders. He is a player and not even close to one of our major concerns.

phillybroncosnut
01-03-2010, 10:19 PM
Man, he's a rookie! People were saying the same things about DeAngelo Williams after his rookie year.

I'm not saying he can't or wont be a player, I just thought the #12 pick could have been used to filling more important holes on the Broncos. I didnt think RB was the best choice when we had a stable of RB's we already signed. We could have either traded down, or taken a better fit for our team at 12

KevinJames
01-03-2010, 10:19 PM
I thought he was one of the only bright spots once again today.

apparently I am blind but I don't see this bust everyone talks about I see a kid with a bright future who ones very hard and rarely do I see the kid stop turning his legs until he is completely down thats a sign of a good RB.

one thing people need to understand Moreno is not going to be a speedster thats not his game hes not all that fast hes quick but hes doesn't have blazing speed thats not why we drafted him and down the line were going to need one of those lightning change ups.

Hamrob
01-03-2010, 10:20 PM
Moreno needs to learn how to hit the hole and go. He runs latterally too often and isn't fast enough to play those games.

He would be a nice compliment to a guy like Charles. He's not a bust, he'll be a player for us. But taking him with the #12 pick was not wise. Orakapo or Cushing would have been nice.

Taco John
01-03-2010, 10:21 PM
He has all the tangibles. But his field vision seems very poor. He takes too long to make a decision behind the line. I think Bobby Turner can coach him up, but I was very disappointed with how much we put on a kid that wasn't performing when there were other options we could have used.

Dagmar
01-03-2010, 10:23 PM
Damn that rookie leading the league in rookie rushing. Damn him to hell! It's his 1st year! He should have been all pro by his 2nd game, just like all the other top running backs in the league!

Boltjolt
01-03-2010, 10:28 PM
Man, he's a rookie! People were saying the same things about DeAngelo Williams after his rookie year.

Yeah but Williams ran a 4.44, Moreno ran a 4.59

NFLBRONCO
01-03-2010, 10:30 PM
Denver needs a speed back to spell Buck and Moreno

Killericon
01-03-2010, 10:30 PM
I'm not saying he can't or wont be a player, I just thought the #12 pick could have been used to filling more important holes on the Broncos. I didnt think RB was the best choice when we had a stable of RB's we already signed. We could have either traded down, or taken a better fit for our team at 12

This I will agree with.

Yeah but Williams ran a 4.44, Moreno ran a 4.59

:rofl:

Baba Booey
01-03-2010, 10:35 PM
Lets bolster interior line and judge him then

This. We need hogs for this system. Good hogs, not Hochstein.

Taco John
01-03-2010, 10:37 PM
When is the last time we couldn't field a thousand yard starter?

bowtown
01-03-2010, 10:38 PM
When is the last time we couldn't field a thousand yard starter?

Is the correct answer, last year?

boltaneer
01-03-2010, 10:39 PM
I thought you guys drafted Moreno because you were afraid the Chargers were going to take him. :rofl:

Anyway, it's way too early to pass judgment on the kid. It's just his rookie year!

yerner
01-03-2010, 10:41 PM
I still like him when he gets more reps. I thought Ray Rice was a bust last year with alot of the same issues. Ray is faster though.

Bob's your Information Minister
01-03-2010, 10:41 PM
So, wait...Bob was right?

Popps
01-03-2010, 10:41 PM
I have no idea until we can get a line that can open up holes. At times, he's looked great. Other times, he's fighting 3 guys in the backfield to get to the LOS. (Many times today.)

He's no Chris Johnson or Adrian Peterson. But, I still think we can get great value out of him for where we took him. He's capable of being a workhorse back. We saw it earlier this year when we WERE blocking well.

ZONA
01-03-2010, 10:44 PM
I guess the word "bust" is all in how you apply it. Moreno is in no way a bust the same way Jarvis Moss was a bust. But to take a RB with the #12 overall pick and him not get even one 100 yard game and not reach 1000 yards could be considered a bust in terms of where he was drafted. I think he could be one of those Kevin Faulk types who are very steady and play hard for several years. But I just don't see a truly special back in the making here. People are always saying he's shown flashes but I'm not sure I really saw many of those flashes. When there were wide open lanes, which were not often, he really didn't showcase anything amazing, he basically got what the defense gave him. Maybe a handful of times he made a great spin move or great cutback or something but it certainly wasn't often enough to say that he showed flashes. I had much higher hopes for him because the clips I saw of him at Georgia, he looked like he had a much better burst. We knew he wasn't a fast guy but I haven't even really seen good burst from him this year at all. Now, he has shown that he's one tough MF, he can take a hit and keep on ticking, I really do like that. And I think he will be a good player for us long term but I just can't see this guy being a big time threat. Sure there haven been other runners in this league that were not fast that had great careers but most of those guys were excellent at breaking tackles and using their blockers and just sniffing out the best possible lane, however small it may have been.

I'm not sure anybody here is saying he's a bad player, I think most of just agree he's the kind of player you probably could have easily found in a round 2 or 3, definitely not the #12 overall.

SureShot
01-03-2010, 10:45 PM
I have no idea until we can get a line that can open up holes. At times, he's looked great. Other times, he's fighting 3 guys in the backfield to get to the LOS. (Many times today.)

He's no Chris Johnson or Adrian Peterson. But, I still think we can get great value out of him for where we took him. He's capable of being a workhorse back. We saw it earlier this year when we WERE blocking well.

At this point we are not getting value for where we took him. 12 is pretty damn high for a RB.

24champ
01-03-2010, 10:49 PM
Moreno isn't a bust. People that think he is, are retarded. He's a cocky guy, I like that and he shows the intangibles to be a workhorse back. Plus he will improve, since he will have a full offseason with the team, unlike coming in at the Nth hour this year.

Fixing the O-line this offseason will go a long ways as well.

Killericon
01-03-2010, 10:56 PM
When is the last time we couldn't field a thousand yard starter?

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r362/Mariorck/Motivational%20Posters/Irony.jpg

DBroncos4life
01-03-2010, 11:04 PM
I hope he can end up like Steven Jackson. Solid power runner that is very dangerous out of the backfield.

ZONA
01-03-2010, 11:12 PM
I agree that Moreno will probably be that "workhorse" type of back, but teams more often then not don't draft a "workhorse" with the #12 overall pick.

It might be a little too soon to tell but I would be much much much more optimistic if he had broken some long runs this year or had a special game where he went over 150 or 200 yards rushing. I'm in no way suggesting he's not a good fit here. Just simply saying I felt we could have traded down from there and taken somebody like Wells later on and picked up another crucial early pick to help rebuild this team.

SureShot
01-03-2010, 11:13 PM
I hope he can end up like Steven Jackson. Solid power runner that is very dangerous out of the backfield.

I dont think that would be realistic. SJax is 6-2 236 Moreno is 5-11 217.

ZONA
01-03-2010, 11:15 PM
I hope he can end up like Steven Jackson. Solid power runner that is very dangerous out of the backfield.

Except that Jackson goes about 235-240 and runs a 4.45 and can outrun defenders. Moreno is not as big, not as fast, and you could argue that Moreno runs behind a much better Offensive Line, lol.

SureShot
01-03-2010, 11:17 PM
Except that Jackson goes about 235-240 and runs a 4.45 and can outrun defenders. Moreno is not as big, not as fast, and you could argue that Moreno runs behind a much better Offensive Line, lol.

And was taken at #24. Now thats value.

ZONA
01-03-2010, 11:21 PM
And was taken at #24. Now thats value.

I think the Cardinals in the end will have themselves something very similar in Wells. Some of those long runs I saw him have this year that lane was small and he was through it in a flash and was gone. Like I said, I sincerely thought Moreno showed much better burst in his college highlight tapes but it's hard to figure out if maybe he's just hesitant right now in picking that seem and exploding through it or that the highlight reels were against college level talent and these NFL guys are fast.

SureShot
01-03-2010, 11:24 PM
I think the Cardinals in the end will have themselves something very similar in Wells. Some of those long runs I saw him have this year that lane was small and he was through it in a flash and was gone. Like I said, I sincerely thought Moreno showed much better burst in his college highlight tapes but it's hard to figure out if maybe he's just hesitant right now in picking that seem and exploding through it or that the highlight reels were against college level talent and these NFL guys are fast.

Wells had twice as many runs over 20 yards with a lot less carries. Im not going to say he is a bust right now, but I'm not impressed.

DBroncos4life
01-03-2010, 11:24 PM
Except that Jackson goes about 235-240 and runs a 4.45 and can outrun defenders. Moreno is not as big, not as fast, and you could argue that Moreno runs behind a much better Offensive Line, lol.

Jackson is 6-2/6-3 so the extra weight is to be expected and his 40 time was 4.55.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-03-2010, 11:33 PM
Moreno isn't a bust. People that think he is, are retarded. He's a cocky guy, I like that and he shows the intangibles to be a workhorse back. Plus he will improve, since he will have a full offseason with the team, unlike coming in at the Nth hour this year.

Fixing the O-line this offseason will go a long ways as well.

^ This.

I'll suspend judgment until I see him behind a line that doesn't suck.

ZONA
01-03-2010, 11:37 PM
Jackson is 6-2/6-3 so the extra weight is to be expected and his 40 time was 4.55.

WRONG




40 yard dash - 4.45
20 yard shuttle - 4.09
3Cone - 7.03
Verticle - 37 1/2 inches
Broad - 9'10"
Bench - 16 reps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Jackson

TheChamp24
01-03-2010, 11:44 PM
I seriously don't see a gamebreaker/changer you pick this high for a RB. Not saying he is horrible, but he seemed like a back that could be easily replaceable. I'm not calling him a bust, but he needs to get better next year.

DBroncos4life
01-03-2010, 11:48 PM
WRONG




40 yard dash - 4.45
20 yard shuttle - 4.09
3Cone - 7.03
Verticle - 37 1/2 inches
Broad - 9'10"
Bench - 16 reps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Jackson

lol you should look what the ** say. Pro day results. The surface he ran on for that could be faster...


Where do they go from here?
Oregon State expects to see a few of its own go in this weekend's draft
Raju Woodward
The Daily Barometer
Issue date: 4/23/04 Section: Sports

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Kacy Kizer<br><i>The Daily Barometer</i><p>Steven Jackson, Richard Seigler, Dwan Edwards and James Newson find out this weekend if they will continue their football careers in the NFL as the 2004 draft will take place in New York beginning on Saturday.</p
Kacy Kizer
The Daily Barometer

Steven Jackson, Richard Seigler, Dwan Edwards and James Newson find out this weekend if they will continue their football careers in the NFL as the 2004 draft will take place in New York beginning on Saturday.
[Click to enlarge]

It's that time of year again, and this year it's supposed to be better than ever.

The NFL Draft takes place this weekend, and despite its share of controversy, things are looking good for Oregon State.

In recent years, the OSU football team has seen its fair share of Beavers go in the NFL Draft.

Last year, three Beavers were selected, including linebacker Nick Barnett. Barnett became only the fourth Oregon State player to be drafted in the first round when the Green Bay Packers chose him with the 26th pick.

Until Barnett, Heisman Trophy winner Terry Baker was the last Beaver to be taken in the first round. Baker was the first pick in the 1963 draft.

This year's draft, however, could be the best yet for Oregon State.

Six Beavers have a good shot at being drafted. The group is headlined by running back Steven Jackson, who is primed to be OSU's next first round pick. The 6-foot-3, 233-pound Jackson is regarded by many to be the top back in the draft and is expected to be selected in the top 15.

Other Beavers who could be drafted are defensive tackle Dwan Edwards, linebacker Richard Seigler, wide receiver James Newson, tight end Tim Euhus and kicker Kirk Yliniemi.

If all of these players are selected, it would set an OSU record for most selections in one draft. The current mark is five, which was last accomplished in 1969, when Bill Enyart, Jon Sandstrom, Jon Didion, Rocky Rasley and Mike Foote were all drafted.

Many events take place leading up to the draft, including the NFL combine. The combine is an event where teams scout players by evaluating players' physical and mental abilities. While the combine can help players raise their stock, it can also hurt them.

For example, the NFL puts a lot of emphasis on speed. So if a player runs poorly, his stock can suffer.

Until the combine, Virginia Tech's Kevin Jones was regarded as the best running back in the draft. Jackson's stock, however, has soared, and now the Beavers' leading rusher is considered the top running back.

Jackson posted a 4.55 40-yard dash time at the combine. He is a rare combination of speed and power.

Jackson has the speed to hit holes quickly and the strength to break tackles. As a result, he often gains yards after contact and finishes off runs with authority. He also possesses good hands for a running back and isn't afraid to block. However, Jackson's vision could hurt him and he needs to learn to adjust to defenses better. Jackson's willingness to block, though, makes him the total package to many scouts.

With all the recent trades in the NFL involving running backs, it's hard to tell who will select Jackson. Several possibilities include Dallas, Denver and Oakland.

At 6-foot-2 and 313 pounds, Edwards is the ideal size for a defensive tackle. He showed decent speed at the combine with a 5.12 40-yard dash. He is a solid all-around tackle who plays smart. Edwards is a good pass rusher who gets good penetration. He is also a strong tackler who hits with force.

Edwards relies on instinct and sheer effort to find the ball and make plays. Despite his size, Edwards needs to improve his strength, as he sometimes is overpowered. He has been mentioned as a possible first round selection, but will most likely be taken in the second round.

In its mock draft, "The Sporting News" has Edwards going to the Denver Broncos.

Linebacker Richard Seigler is considered to be the second best middle linebacker available in the draft. The 6-foot-2, 244-pound Seigler ran a 4.86 40-yard dash at the combine, which is unusually slow for him, as speed is considered to be one of his best attributes.

Seigler possesses good skills and instincts. His motor is always running at high gear and he plays with a lot of intensity and emotion. He is a great competitor who plays hard. As an explosive tackler who uses his strength well against the run, Seigler will need to be aware of his speed, which leads to over-pursuing at times.

Also, he tries to run around blocks too often, instead of attacking them. Seigler needs to work on his coverage skills, as he doesn't move fluidly while covering receivers. He is expected to be drafted in the second or third round. He should be the next great OSU linebacker to make it to the NFL, following in the footsteps of James Allen and Barnett.

James Newson is strong and physical for a wide receiver at 6 feet tall and 213 pounds. Newson has great hands and instincts for catching the ball. He is a fierce competitor who fights for the ball, and isn't afraid to go over the middle to make tough catches. This is a reflection of his fearless nature.

He also has a tireless work ethic that makes him a good leader. Newson's strength allows him to break tackles and gain yards after the catch. This makes up for his average speed, (Newson was clocked at 4.84 at the combine), which leaves him unable to separate from defenders.

With that in mind, Newson would fit in well with the West Coast offense. He will most likely go on the second day of the draft.

Tight end Tim Euhus made considerable strides during his last two years at OSU, and they are paying off for him now. His stock has risen due to his success at the combine, where he ran a 4.86 40-yard dash.

Euhus is a good athlete for his position, as he also played basketball for the Beavers his freshman year. As a result, he runs and jumps well for his height, which makes him a good target for going over the middle. He is smart player who works with quarterbacks and knows how to make adjustments.

Euhus, however, needs to add more size and muscle to his frame. He is inconsistent as a blocker and carries the ball too loose, which can lead to fumbles. He is considered to be one of the top 10 tight ends in the draft, and could even be drafted before Newson.

Place-kickers usually aren't a hot commodity during the draft, as many teams don't want to use a pick on a special teams player. As a result, most kickers and punters are signed as free agents. Kirk Yliniemi, however, is considered to be the one of the best kickers available. Yliniemi has good leg extension and follow-through. He gets good height and trajectory on his kicks.

Yliniemi possesses the leg strength to explode into the ball. He is very good kicking from long distances and handles pressure well. He is an exceptional athlete for a kicker, as he ran a 4.69 40 at the combine.

Yliniemi, however, is inconsistent at getting kickoffs into the end zone, and has, at best, adequate hang time on his kicks.

Two other Beavers will likely get a shot in the NFL, as safety Lawrence Turner and receiver Kenny Farley are being considered strong candidates to be free agents. Both have good size for their positions and have the ability to play in the NFL. In fact, Farley may have more upside than Newson because of his ideal size and good speed.

The draft will begin Saturday at 9 a.m. at Madison Square Garden in New York. The first three rounds will be on Saturday, and the draft will conclude Sunday with the final four rounds.

Raju Woodward is a sports writer for The Daily Barometer. He can be reached at baro.sports@studentmedia.orst.edu

http://media.barometer.orst.edu/media/storage/paper854/news/2004/04/23/Sports/Where.Do.They.Go.From.Here-2299423.shtml

Taco John
01-04-2010, 12:08 AM
Moreno reminds me of Shaun Alexander (http://www.nfl.com/players/shaunalexander/profile?id=ALE617460).

ZONA
01-04-2010, 12:09 AM
[QUOTE=DBroncos4life;2702695]lol you should look what the ** say. Pro day results. The surface he ran on for that could be faster...

PRO DAY is NOT the Combine. Anybody can have days where they run faster or slower. You go by the fastest official time somebody ran. And his Official Combine time was 4.55

But the point being made is, he's alot bigger and faster then Knowshon. You're not disagreeing with that are you?

SureShot
01-04-2010, 12:10 AM
Moreno reminds me of Shaun Alexander (http://www.nfl.com/players/shaunalexander/profile?id=ALE617460).

They are similar in size and they both like to fumble

Rabb
01-04-2010, 12:12 AM
I thought he looked pretty good today and all year for that matter, all things considered. I will reserve total judgment for when we have the offense clicking as a whole which doesn't seem to have happened often this season.

Today he got it done when he needed to from what I saw, seemed like when he was stuffed it was because he had nowhere to go. I liked his goal line running for once finally.

ZONA
01-04-2010, 12:15 AM
They are similar in size and they both like to fumble

I'm not getting on board with that. Moreno has done a much better job in the 2nd half of the season with ball security and I don't feel it's a problem. However, I do believe that the early fumbles sort of played a part in how he runs with the ball. I think he's so conscious of protecting the ball that he runs a little cautious. Maybe as time goes on he learns to run more relaxed and natural and when he senses contact he can go into a more protective position but we shall see.

Doggcow
01-04-2010, 12:16 AM
Moreno isn't a huge threat because his Oline allows him to get hit by a DE, DT and LB by the time he gets to the line of scrimmage.

FFS People, it's amazing Moreno did as well as he did. LeSean and Shonn Greene and Donald Brown and Beanie Wells were in a WAY better situation and didn't do nearly as much.

tsiguy96
01-04-2010, 12:17 AM
Moreno isn't a huge threat because his Oline allows him to get hit by a DE, DT and LB by the time he gets to the line of scrimmage.

FFS People, it's amazing Moreno did as well as he did. LeSean and Shonn Greene and Donald Brown and Beanie Wells were in a WAY better situation and didn't do nearly as much.

moreno really did get hit in the backfield on almost EVERY single run. dont know if its because 8 in the box most plays, or because our oline just gets destroyed, or combo of both, but it was bad.

WABronco
01-04-2010, 12:18 AM
If Alexander could've play on passing downs the comparison would've been a bit more apt.

No, he probably won't be a big-gainer like Tatum Bell was. But the potential is there for ~100 yards a game plus legitimate passing down-time.

Least of our concerns.

bpc
01-04-2010, 12:19 AM
Peoples predictions about who this guy reminds them of is all over the board.

He's not Alexander. Shaun had an amazing presence about himself at the goalline. We have yet to see that with Knowshon besides against the Chiefs.

I don't know why we took a HB so high. The NFL is littered with 2nd, 3rd, 4th round HB's having an impact as starters. Combine that with the fact HB's have the shortest lifespan in the NFL, it just seems like more of a reach vs. other needs we had. Yes, he has some skills in three categories... running, blocking, catching. He's probably only solid, solid, good in those three in that respective order.

I don't think Knowshon is a workhorse type back as he's often nicked up and hobbling, and his lack of speed and power to break tackles is going to limit his effectiveness. The line could get better and he might be a 1100 yd back but I don't think he's much more than that. I believe he'll have to be saddled up next to a backfield mate more often than not.

I think Moreno is a good guy... he's just from the shallow end of the talent pool vs. guys like Rice, CJ, and even Shaun Alexander. All of those guys had discernable great traits coming out of college.

ZONA
01-04-2010, 12:23 AM
Moreno isn't a huge threat because his Oline allows him to get hit by a DE, DT and LB by the time he gets to the line of scrimmage.

FFS People, it's amazing Moreno did as well as he did. LeSean and Shonn Greene and Donald Brown and Beanie Wells were in a WAY better situation and didn't do nearly as much.

Well using your logic, there is no way Jackson should have had anything close to 1500 yards because the Rams are pathetic and certainly defenses key on him every game and their OL sucks. I have a hard time believing he had more or bigger lanes then Moreno had.

And McCoy, Green and Wells didn't do nearly as much because they didn't have nearly the same amount of carries. Moreno had almost 150 more carries then Green had. I can't buy your logic in regards to those other guys.

Carries 2009

Green 108
McCoy 155
Wells 176

Moreno 247

Taco John
01-04-2010, 12:24 AM
I think he'd have been awesome in a ZBS system. In a system where we take zone blockers and ask them to block like they're the 91 Washington Redskins, he looked pretty ordinary.

DBroncos4life
01-04-2010, 12:28 AM
[QUOTE=DBroncos4life;2702695]lol you should look what the ** say. Pro day results. The surface he ran on for that could be faster...

PRO DAY is NOT the Combine. Anybody can have days where they run faster or slower. You go by the fastest official time somebody ran. And his Official Combine time was 4.55

But the point being made is, he's alot bigger and faster then Knowshon. You're not disagreeing with that are you?

I know what the hell pro day is and it's done on a faster surface then what they run at the NFL combine. That is why you see so many players having faster 40 times at pro days. Players magically get taller after the combine too.

Jackson is bigger then Moreno. Moreno is 5-11 210. Jackson is 6-2 235. What I am saying is that Jackson has two or more inches on Moreno so he can carry the extra weight easier.

My point is we have a guy that should be able to pound the ball and get us 60 catches out of the backfield if he is being used properly.

Doggcow
01-04-2010, 12:33 AM
Well using your logic, there is no way Jackson should have had anything close to 1500 yards because the Rams are pathetic and certainly defenses key on him every game and their OL sucks. I have a hard time believing he had more or bigger lanes then Moreno had.

And McCoy, Green and Wells didn't do nearly as much because they didn't have nearly the same amount of carries. Moreno had almost 150 more carries then Green had. I can't buy your logic in regards to those other guys.

Carries 2009

Green 108
McCoy 155
Wells 176

Moreno 247

SJax is an elite RB. Hard to compare the two... Thats like saying Mark Sanchez is no Drew Brees. Which I agree.

However, Knowshon earned his carries. Despite what you want to believe, I know we BOTH watched him get tackled behind the line of scrimmage multiple times every game, which were not his fault.

LeSean- 4.1ypc (Great passing game and offense to take guys out of the box, and a pretty decent Oline)
Green- 5ypc (With an ELITE line and got a lot of help from his game vs indy and cinci)
Wells - 4.5 (An Elite QB Game and pass to take guys out of the box and... Look at the schedule...)

Moreno at 3.8 wasn't that far behind, especially with a brutal schedule, and **** Oline.

WABronco
01-04-2010, 12:35 AM
Peoples predictions about who this guy reminds them of is all over the board.

He's not Alexander. Shaun had an amazing presence about himself at the goalline. We have yet to see that with Knowshon besides against the Chiefs.

I don't know why we took a HB so high. The NFL is littered with 2nd, 3rd, 4th round HB's having an impact as starters. Combine that with the fact HB's have the shortest lifespan in the NFL, it just seems like more of a reach vs. other needs we had. Yes, he has some skills in three categories... running, blocking, catching. He's probably only solid, solid, good in those three in that respective order.

I don't think Knowshon is a workhorse type back as he's often nicked up and hobbling, and his lack of speed and power to break tackles is going to limit his effectiveness. The line could get better and he might be a 1100 yd back but I don't think he's much more than that. I believe he'll have to be saddled up next to a backfield mate more often than not.

I think Moreno is a good guy... he's just from the shallow end of the talent pool vs. guys like Rice, CJ, and even Shaun Alexander. All of those guys had discernable great traits coming out of college.

You could equate a lot of Alexander's talent to the effectiveness of his line. He was neither fast, shifty, or strong.

And all but a few teams employ a shared backfield (to varying degrees, obviously).

Solid showing in his 1st year.

bpc
01-04-2010, 12:49 AM
The one thing Alexander has always had was an innate ability to score TD's. Maybe it was blocking... maybe it was playcalling... but he racked up double digit TD's in 5 straight seasons including his MVP year.

It's early but I saw something when I watched Alexander run. I just haven't seen enough watching Moreno run. He really needs to hit the gym hard this offseason, ditch the speed/quickness back montra, and learn to be a downhill, north/south runner who can break tackles upon 1st contact.

Bob's your Information Minister
01-04-2010, 12:51 AM
Did you guys see what Moreno did when he broke into the open field last night for his "long" run of 18 yards?

He had a chance to break one. His legs were moving fast...but his body wasn't.

He can't hit that open space and zoom past guys. And we're talking about a slooooow Chiefs' defense.

Slowshon.

Doggcow
01-04-2010, 12:53 AM
Did you guys see what Moreno did when he broke into the open field last night for his "long" run of 18 yards?

He had a chance to break one. His legs were moving fast...but his body wasn't.

He can't hit that open space and zoom past guys. And we're talking about a slooooow Chiefs' defense.

Slowshon.

Knowshon wasn't in "Open field" all game. Your defense actually played pretty damn good.

watermock
01-04-2010, 12:55 AM
When we changed blocking schemes, our line turned to crap.

Reegardless, I'm not very impressed with Moreno. He can do everything, but nothing exceptional.

Bob's your Information Minister
01-04-2010, 12:59 AM
Knowshon wasn't in "Open field" all game. Your defense actually played pretty damn good.

Yes he was. He had a big hole and ran right through the middle of the field for an 18-yard gain. But he couldn't outrun the safeties and turn it into a HUGE gain.

Do you see this? Ever heard of "if you're even, he's leavin'" ?

http://i47.tinypic.com/90nltf.jpg

Moreno got run down by #34 and even Mike Brown (#30) piled on. Because he's slow. Charles accelerates through that gap and leaves those turkeys in the dust.

ZONA
01-04-2010, 01:02 AM
When we changed blocking schemes, our line turned to crap.

Reegardless, I'm not very impressed with Moreno. He can do everything, but nothing exceptional.

I'm not a huge fan of Charles but I think even he (a small fast guy) broke more tackles today then Moreno did. Sometimes breaking tackles isn't about how strong you are or how tough. Alot of the times it's how fast you are. Defenders close in on you but judge their angle wrong or just can't get enough of a good hold on to you and the tackle is broke. I think that is one of the reasons why Moreno is not breaking as many tackles. If he was faster through some of the holes, defenders would not have as good a grasp on him and he could break the tackle better. It's hard to break a tackle when the guy can get a full wrap going on.

Doggcow
01-04-2010, 01:03 AM
Yes he was. He had a big hole and ran right through the middle of the field for an 18-yard gain. But he couldn't outrun the safeties and turn it into a HUGE gain.

Do you see this? Ever heard of "if you're even, he's leavin'" ?

http://i47.tinypic.com/90nltf.jpg

Moreno got run down by #34 and even Mike Brown (#30) piled on. Because he's slow. Charles accelerates through that gap and leaves those turkeys in the dust.

Oh you mean after he was slowed down by like 4 tackles he broke? All the guys in that picture had a step on Knowshon, who was off balance to begin with after the broken tackles.

Bob's your Information Minister
01-04-2010, 01:07 AM
He doesn't look off balance to me. He just couldn't accelerate fast enough. He's sloooooooooooooooooow.

Accept it.

Doggcow
01-04-2010, 01:08 AM
He doesn't look off balance to me. He just couldn't accelerate fast enough. He's sloooooooooooooooooow.

Accept it.

Look at the 4 bitchass chiefs behind him that he just smoked? The fact that he made it through that was awesome, and a great one.

Bob's your Information Minister
01-04-2010, 01:11 AM
Look at the 4 b****ass chiefs behind him that he just smoked? The fact that he made it through that was awesome, and a great one.

No doubt, he's a good player. He has talent for sure. He's just not gonna break the long ones. So you have to question if he was really worth the #12 pick.

I think you guys basically drafted a poor man's Priest Holmes. Without the threat of a real passing game backing him up he's not gonna wow you.

yavoon
01-04-2010, 01:13 AM
4.59 is scary slow

Doggcow
01-04-2010, 01:15 AM
No doubt, he's a good player. He has talent for sure. He's just not gonna break the long ones. So you have to question if he was really worth the #12 pick.

I think you guys basically drafted a poor man's Priest Holmes. Without the threat of a real passing game backing him up he's not gonna wow you.

Well he's definitely not the kind of game breaker that Glenn Dorsey or Tyson Jackson are...

Bob's your Information Minister
01-04-2010, 01:23 AM
Well he's definitely not the kind of game breaker that Glenn Dorsey or Tyson Jackson are...

Glenn Dorsey had a sack today and was a major reason the Broncos couldn't run the ball. Your deflection was weak in both theory and execution.

Doggcow
01-04-2010, 01:26 AM
Glenn Dorsey had a sack today and was a major reason the Broncos couldn't run the ball. Your deflection was weak in both theory and execution.

You deflected the other top 5 bust I pointed out. It's not Moreno's fault that our Oline is garbage.

Moreno is a stud, and will prove it once he has at least 2 Olineman to run behind.

ZONA
01-04-2010, 01:26 AM
Well he's definitely not the kind of game breaker that Glenn Dorsey or Tyson Jackson are...

oooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh


That was a good one. DOH.

:thanku:

ZONA
01-04-2010, 01:28 AM
You deflected the other top 5 bust I pointed out. It's not Moreno's fault that our Oline is garbage.

Moreno is a stud, and will prove it once he has at least 2 Olineman to run behind.

You have to actually have the stats to back up your status of being a stud. You think he could amount to that with a line upgrade but calling him a stud right now is extremely premature. Steven Jackson has a terrible offensive line and he racked up almost 1500 yards this year for the pathetic Rams. I know you like Moreno and that's fine, but let's not make him out to be a stud quite yet.

Bob's your Information Minister
01-04-2010, 01:36 AM
You deflected the other top 5 bust I pointed out. It's not Moreno's fault that our Oline is garbage.

Moreno is a stud, and will prove it once he has at least 2 Olineman to run behind.

Who's fault is it that Buckhalter is more explosive, breaks longer runs and has a higher YPC?

You're right, I didn't address Jackson. But he's a rookie defensive lineman. You're comparing him to a rookie RB. Apples and oranges.

Even so, your deflection was weak. You're defending a slow running back by bringing up defensive lineman who just contributed to shutting him down. Slick move.

fontaine
01-04-2010, 03:38 AM
Moreno has done ok for the kind of production we used to get from a 5th/6th round pick, not from a high first rounder.

maher_tyler
01-04-2010, 04:02 AM
947 rushing yards 7 TD's and 213 receiving yards 2 TD's...thats 1160 yards total and 9 TD's. 275 touches...pretty good for a rookie if you ask me! With Harris and hopeful middle O line help and a year under his belt, should come back even better next year!

fontaine
01-04-2010, 04:12 AM
Why don't we just go back to using the ZBS exclusively? We already have three guys in place in Harris/Kuper/Clady that excelled in this system and we know Buck has enough speed and vision to capitalize it. Moreno will do a lot better in this system also.

It just makes zero sense to me to go with a power running game without, well, any power players along the OL. Not just that but we've got two great coaches in Turner/Dennison who can not only coach that but find the kind of talent that can excel in it.

Jerry Curl
01-04-2010, 04:23 AM
Haha @ people comparing Steven Jackson, a pro-bowler w/ 6 years experience, to a rookie.

Oh and Charles got caught by Goodman who was behind him and not at full speed when Charles passed by, so not leaving all the turkeys behind.

rmsanger
01-04-2010, 05:52 AM
Let's just say Moreno is going to be the worst 1st RB taken in the draft for sometime. Mark Ingram is going to be a beast, wish we could trade slowshon for him!

barryr
01-04-2010, 06:41 AM
Hard for Moreno to be a big threat when he's often faced with a defender in his face as soon as he gets the ball.

As I have mentioned, makes no sense to claim Moreno is so slow, but racked up the yards he did in the SEC conference, a place hardly known for slow defenses.

He doesn't have blazing speed, but neither did TD, but he seemed to do fine when he wasn't having to find holes that weren't there.

jsco70
01-04-2010, 06:43 AM
Why don't we just go back to using the ZBS exclusively? We already have three guys in place in Harris/Kuper/Clady that excelled in this system and we know Buck has enough speed and vision to capitalize it. Moreno will do a lot better in this system also.

It just makes zero sense to me to go with a power running game without, well, any power players along the OL. Not just that but we've got two great coaches in Turner/Dennison who can not only coach that but find the kind of talent that can excel in it.

The transition was a one year growing pain.

Kuper, Harris and Clady can excel in any type of system, and now they have a year under their belt. Now McD and Co. can draft or sign the new new C and LG and the OL will be ready to go.

Beantown Bronco
01-04-2010, 07:26 AM
Let's just say Moreno is going to be the worst 1st RB taken in the draft for sometime.

EPIC fail.

Just in the last two drafts, I can come up with the following:

Darren McFadden
Donald Brown
Chris Wells

WolfpackGuy
01-04-2010, 07:32 AM
The team didn't need a RB at #12.

That's pretty much why I've been down on him.

fontaine
01-04-2010, 09:08 AM
The transition was a one year growing pain.

Kuper, Harris and Clady can excel in any type of system, and now they have a year under their belt. Now McD and Co. can draft or sign the new new C and LG and the OL will be ready to go.

Right, so McD gives up on the running game for one year so that we'd have what's his name, or what's his face starting at LG/C for us next season?

Yeah, because it's so easy to just go out and sign a powerhouse LG and C combo in just one off season right?

Why the hell transition in the FIRST place from something that's worked so well for so long.

TonyR
01-04-2010, 09:11 AM
Didn't read the whole thread, so these thoughts are probably redundant, but will admit that while I'm disappointed in Moreno myself and don't think he'll ever be what you'd hope to get at #12 I do think he'll be a good RB. The O-line was awful the 2nd half of the year so I can't put all the blame on Moreno for his performance.

oubronco
01-04-2010, 09:17 AM
How many times this year was he one shoestring from breaking off some big runs

Jay6Cutler
01-04-2010, 09:49 AM
the problem with noshow is hes not fast enough to hit the edge. hes not big enough to run people over. in anyother draft he would have been a 4th-6th round pk at best. noshow should have not been picked 12th overall cause at 12 you should be able to to get a impact player not a 4th-6th rd talent. noshow was a major reach at 12

TonyR
01-04-2010, 09:53 AM
noshow was a major reach at 12

Near consensus top rated back in the draft and many teams were rumored to be interested in round one including Phila and SD.

bowtown
01-04-2010, 09:59 AM
the problem with noshow is hes not fast enough to hit the edge. hes not big enough to run people over. in anyother draft he would have been a 4th-6th round pk at best. noshow should have not been picked 12th overall cause at 12 you should be able to to get a impact player not a 4th-6th rd talent. noshow was a major reach at 12

Wow I didn't realize that draft was so thin at RB. So then in any other draft, I guess Beanie Wells would have been Mr. Irrelevant. Unfortunate time to draft what many scouts called a top ten talent and what Bobby Turner descibed as the most complete back he'd seen.

vancejohnson82
01-04-2010, 10:02 AM
the problem with noshow is hes not fast enough to hit the edge. hes not big enough to run people over. in anyother draft he would have been a 4th-6th round pk at best. noshow should have not been picked 12th overall cause at 12 you should be able to to get a impact player not a 4th-6th rd talent. noshow was a major reach at 12

hahahahaha....sometimes I feel like I shouldnt even be a part of this board. Takes like this are just beyond ridiculous....4th-6th round talent? Dude, what on Earth are you smoking? There is no way he was going to last past pick 20. He was labeled as the best back in the draft going away.

by the way...the guy who ran for 259 yards on us yesterday was pretty much a non-factor in his rookie year...but i guess the Chiefs should have labeled him a bust, right?

gyldenlove
01-04-2010, 10:06 AM
Moreno will turn into the next Deangelo Williams, he will have 1500 yards rushing in a season by the end of the 2011 season at the latest.

jsco70
01-04-2010, 10:14 AM
Why the hell transition in the FIRST place from something that's worked so well for so long.

It's pretty simple concept, but I'll break it down for you. The answer is because Pat Bowlen fired Mike Shanahan following the 2008-2009 season. Bowlen then hired Josh McD as the new coach of the Denver Broncos. Apparently, the new coach doesn't want to run zone blocking so he changed the system. In order to implement HIS system (whether you like it or not is irrelevant), the OL migrated to the new blocking scheme over the course of the season.

At this time, it's pretty obvious both the starting center and left guard were unable to adapt for various reasons. Therefore, McD and his staff will look to sign or draft new starters at these position. More than likely, these new starters will have previous experience in whatever blocking scheme McD intends to use with his offense. Powerhouse or not, one who thinks clearly will have to presume the new starters will be an upgrade over the 2009 starters.

Meanwhile, Harris, Kuper, Clady and other holdovers will have benefited in the 2010 season thanks to the transition in 2009. Was it a painful transition? Yes, it was, but only because the team overacheived in 2009 and was in the playoff hunt until the final week of the season. It's possible the team would have won another game or two had they continued with zone blocking and made the playoffs...we'll never know. Ironically, had the team played to preseason projections, the transition would have been basically been a non-issue.

Based on all that, here we all sit on the first day of the offseason. There are basically two choices. 1) Whine and moan for the next six months about how McD is destroying the Broncos. Wish with all your might 2010 is another abysmal year, he fails, gets fired and then we can go through another "transition." 2) Realize McD is the coach and support him in hopes he improves the team. Cheer for the team and try to be positive and respectful. I'm for option two, how about you?