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TheReverend
01-03-2010, 07:28 PM
From the Josina thread, rumors are running rampant that McD wants to clean house with the rest of the "Shanahan" guys, and that we should cut him slack because he didn't have his guys to run his system.

Here's the confusing part:

If you didn't want any of the pre-existing players that had been impact players, why take the job at all?

LongDongJohnson
01-03-2010, 07:29 PM
clearly shanahan guys arent capable of executing 5 yard pass routes.

if we had the proper mcdaniel players we would be dominating!

Archer81
01-03-2010, 07:30 PM
I would really take anything said in the lockerroom immediately following a 44-24 loss with a gigantic grain of salt. I would also pause over who is the jerkass running her mouth.

:Broncos:

TheReverend
01-03-2010, 07:34 PM
I would really take anything said in the lockerroom immediately following a 44-24 loss with a gigantic grain of salt. I would also pause over who is the jerkass running her mouth.

:Broncos:

Well then call this premature speculation.

IF it is the case, why take THIS job? Why not a different team with more patience, lower expectations, higher draft picks?

Killericon
01-03-2010, 07:35 PM
Well then call this premature speculation.

IF it is the case, why take THIS job? Why not a different team with more patience, lower expectations, higher draft picks?

Cause it's the mother****ing Denver Broncos!

bpc
01-03-2010, 07:35 PM
This thread is a joke.... right?

SoDak Bronco
01-03-2010, 07:36 PM
Why take the Job? Well its a HC position in the NFL, and he wanted to move up? End Thread.

SureShot
01-03-2010, 07:36 PM
25848

DBroncos4life
01-03-2010, 07:36 PM
Because BB is sending his people out to ruin teams :clown:

24champ
01-03-2010, 07:37 PM
If you didn't want any of the pre-existing players that had been impact players, why take the job at all?

To answer your question, I'll just sum it up in one word...control.

ayjackson
01-03-2010, 07:37 PM
Hey. Let's make up a rumor and then fly off the handle about it!

extralife
01-03-2010, 07:37 PM
Why take the Job? Well its a HC position in the NFL, and he wanted to move up? End Thread.

so what you're saying is he cares more about himself than he cares about the denver broncos.

why is this ok for coaches, but not for players? why can coaches hide behind that line?

TheReverend
01-03-2010, 07:38 PM
This thread is a joke.... right?

I really, REALLY wish it were...

tsiguy96
01-03-2010, 07:38 PM
so what you're saying is he cares more about himself than he cares about the denver broncos.

why is this ok for coaches, but not for players? why can coaches hide behind that line?

because his ultimate goal is to win games, and hes been given reign to do that.

strafen
01-03-2010, 07:39 PM
clearly shanahan guys arent capable of executing 5 yard pass routes.

if we had the proper mcdaniel players we would be dominating!Those are the downfield plays, man.
The dink and dunk passes are of the 2-yard variety ROFL!

rugbythug
01-03-2010, 07:39 PM
From the Josina thread, rumors are running rampant that McD wants to clean house with the rest of the "Shanahan" guys, and that we should cut him slack because he didn't have his guys to run his system.

Here's the confusing part:

If you didn't want any of the pre-existing players that had been impact players, why take the job at all?

You take Jobs for the Job. You Get the Players.

TheReverend
01-03-2010, 07:39 PM
Why take the Job? Well its a HC position in the NFL, and he wanted to move up? End Thread.

So he had no other offers? You're saying we were the premier HC spot, and we hired the guy who no one else interested him? Simply not true. Please try again.

Hamrob
01-03-2010, 07:40 PM
25848That's great!ROFL!

extralife
01-03-2010, 07:40 PM
because his ultimate goal is to win games, and hes been given reign to do that.

no, his ultimate goal is to have success, like any player. why is it a guy like brandon marshall can bust his ass on the field, put up the numbers and obviously help us win, but it doesn't matter because he's "in it for himself," but a coach doesn't ever have to answer those same calls?

it's a joke. no one associated with any organization gives a **** about the colors unless they've been there for at least ten years. it's all in the fan's heads.

bpc
01-03-2010, 07:40 PM
so what you're saying is he cares more about himself than he cares about the denver broncos.

why is this ok for coaches, but not for players? why can coaches hide behind that line?

You mean when he ran out onto the field after week five when we beat the Patriots and he celebrated like he just won the super bowl, upstaging his previous head coach in the process?

McD needs YEARS of experience before he's going to scratch that "genius" potential he has in him. Unfortunately, I doubt he reaches that level in Denver.

Archer81
01-03-2010, 07:41 PM
Well then call this premature speculation.

IF it is the case, why take THIS job? Why not a different team with more patience, lower expectations, higher draft picks?


A couple of scenarios.

1. The attitude problem from some of the players existed under Shanahan, who was more adept at keeping it under wraps. A New HC comes in expecting these "stars" to behave in a professional manner and they did not, and McDaniels exascerbated it with his disciplinary stances.

2. McDaniels has it in his head that he requires certain players for his schemes, and needed a season to see which players left over fit and which ones did not. So regardless of what we did this year, some fan favorites from last season would have been gone anyway.

:Broncos:

strafen
01-03-2010, 07:41 PM
so what you're saying is he cares more about himself than he cares about the denver broncos.

why is this ok for coaches, but not for players? why can coaches hide behind that line?They are still trying to locate a machine able to measure Mcdaniels' ego...

Popps
01-03-2010, 07:43 PM
I'll bet you there are still 7 Shanahan guys starting by opening day next year.

-Doom
-Clady
-Royal
-Kuper
-DJ
-Bailey
-Peterson

That's about a third of the starting roster.


Much more likely, he wants to get rid of a certain type of personality.

Shanahan cleaned house when he came in, too.

It's what most coaches do.

Most teams who switch coaches aren't switching because the roster is so stacked full of awesome talent.



Think about it.

Lev Vyvanse
01-03-2010, 07:44 PM
I'll bet you there are still 7 Shanahan guys starting by opening day next year.

-Doom
-Clady
-Royal
-Kuper
-DJ
-Bailey
-Peterson

That's about a third of the starting roster.


Much more likely, he wants to get rid of a certain type of personality.

Shanahan cleaned house when he came in, too.

It's what most coaches do.

Most teams who switch coaches aren't switching because the roster is so stacked full of awesome talent.



Think about it.

No Harris?

extralife
01-03-2010, 07:45 PM
there is no way eddie royal starts next year. I wonder about Champ. Peterson is a McD guy by virtue of sucking his dad's balls.

TheReverend
01-03-2010, 07:46 PM
A couple of scenarios.

1. The attitude problem from some of the players existed under Shanahan, who was more adept at keeping it under wraps. A New HC comes in expecting these "stars" to behave in a professional manner and they did not, and McDaniels exascerbated it with his disciplinary stances.

2. McDaniels has it in his head that he requires certain players for his schemes, and needed a season to see which players left over fit and which ones did not. So regardless of what we did this year, some fan favorites from last season would have been gone anyway.

:Broncos:

Not sure I really buy this.

Here's the thing:

When he interviewed with Bowlen, Bowlen said he was just "blown away" by Josh's plan...

Do you think that plan involved cutting ties with Denver's top cash cows in jersey/merch sales?

Lev Vyvanse
01-03-2010, 07:47 PM
McD likes Larsen as well.

Archer81
01-03-2010, 07:49 PM
Not sure I really buy this.

Here's the thing:

When he interviewed with Bowlen, Bowlen said he was just "blown away" by Josh's plan...

Do you think that plan involved cutting ties with Denver's top cash cows in jersey/merch sales?


Considering how often you see 7, 30 and 84 jerseys in the stands, I am not entirely sure Merchandise sales factored into it. I offered some scenarios, it does not mean I believe either one to be gospel truth. More than likely a majority of the Shanahan guys are still here next season, simply because you dont toss away talent because of perceived player/coach issues.

:Broncos:

TonyR
01-03-2010, 07:49 PM
Outside of perhaps Marshall and Scheffler who is going to get cleaned out? Hamilton could be replaced. Wiegmann? Stokely could be near the end of the line. Marcus Thomas? Graham and Bailey could be possible salary casualties. But if any of these guys are gone next year I don't think being "Shanahan guys" has much to do with it. It's really about running an organization and getting better.

Broncoman13
01-03-2010, 07:50 PM
I'll bet you there are still 7 Shanahan guys starting by opening day next year.

-Doom- I wouldn't bet on him being signed long term, but we hold the cards so I'll agree.
-Clady- He better be.
-Royal- Doubt he'll be a starter on anything other than STs.
-Kuper- If we replace Orton yes, otherwise...GONE.
-DJ- 50/50. If he finds a taker he'll deal him.
-Bailey- Less than 50% chance.
-Peterson- He's more a McD guy than Shanny and if he is starting next year then we've not done enough to address the DLine. Kenny is a good backup option though.

That's about a third of the starting roster.


Much more likely, he wants to get rid of a certain type of personality.

Shanahan cleaned house when he came in, too.

It's what most coaches do.

Most teams who switch coaches aren't switching because the roster is so stacked full of awesome talent.



Think about it.

my thoughts in bold.

jayman_37
01-03-2010, 07:50 PM
I heard he learned how to win under Bellicheck and how to handle players under his father who was a high school coach. I just think you have to handle things differently when they are grown men than when they are high school kids. I really think MCD can be a good coach and probably is. I just think it might be a few years before he gets it figured out. Ala belicheck with the Browns.

ColoradoDarin
01-03-2010, 07:54 PM
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Lev Vyvanse
01-03-2010, 07:55 PM
Kuper- If we replace Orton yes, otherwise...GONE.
What does that mean?

ayjackson
01-03-2010, 07:56 PM
I heard he learned how to win under Bellicheck and how to handle players under his father who was a high school coach. I just think you have to handle things differently when they are grown men than when they are high school kids. I really think MCD can be a good coach and probably is. I just think it might be a few years before he gets it figured out. Ala belicheck with the Browns.

Are we still allowed to post rational, dispassionate commentary?

TheReverend
01-03-2010, 07:57 PM
Considering how often you see 7, 30 and 84 jerseys in the stands, I am not entirely sure Merchandise sales factored into it. I offered some scenarios, it does not mean I believe either one to be gospel truth. More than likely a majority of the Shanahan guys are still here next season, simply because you dont toss away talent because of perceived player/coach issues.

:Broncos:

It'd be akin to benching your best player the final week of your playoff run

Gort
01-03-2010, 07:58 PM
Because BB is sending his people out to ruin teams :clown:

well, he did have a grudge against the Browns to be settled, and under Shanny, the Broncos had pretty much owned the Patriots in recent years.... so... hmmmm.... maybe rasta should investigate. he's already uncovered the conspiracies around cutler and hillis. ;)

Archer81
01-03-2010, 08:00 PM
It'd be akin to benching your best player the final week of your playoff run


Or your best player making the probowl and wanting to shut it down before his team's remaining game with playoff implications.

:Broncos:

Lev Vyvanse
01-03-2010, 08:07 PM
Or your best player making the probowl and wanting to shut it down before his team's remaining game with playoff implications.

:Broncos:

Come on man, he was asked to breathe cold air. What the **** is he suppose to do?

WABronco
01-03-2010, 08:08 PM
To answer your question, I'll just sum it up in one word...control.

Control of an even worse off team...that makes sense.

Even McD would realize that you can't make massive, sweeping changes and expect to be given a long enough leash to do so. I mean, I really doubt he and Bowlen had a secret agreement where McD is allowed to purge the roster til he sees fit, even if it takes 5 years to field a competitive team.

You guys make it seem like he's out to cut the entire starting roster and replace it with UDFA/2nd and 3rd stringer-type talent. That's just not a realistic vision, regardless of whether it's exaggerated by bias or not. I mean, if you believe that he's that thick, more power to you, I suppose. I don't think many in the league would expect to keep their jobs doing that, especially a noobie.

I see some changes on the interior OL, some upgrading for the front seven...the most drastic thing I think we could see is releasing Graham or something. Even then, there's no depth at TE then with that move, so I don't see that. And Champ? Unless he's become an 88 on the Madden speed scale, figuratively speaking, where's the rationale for axing him? You feelin' good about Al Smith and Tony Carter teaming with Andre Goodman? Uh, no. Sure you can bring in cheaper, cost effective guys in FA (like we did on D), but you don't say "Well this Clady guy is a ****ing Shanahanner I'm going to cut his ass and replace him with Chad Clifton." Sorry, no. A young, athletic LT who's under contract for 4 more years ain't going nowhere.

/rant

lostknight
01-03-2010, 08:24 PM
I'll bet you there are still 7 Shanahan guys starting by opening day next year.

-Doom
-Clady
-Royal
-Kuper
-DJ
-Bailey
-Peterson

That's about a third of the starting roster.


Much more likely, he wants to get rid of a certain type of personality.

Shanahan cleaned house when he came in, too.

It's what most coaches do.




Think about it.

Yep, few remember it in the glory days of the Superbowls that happened, but Mike Shanahan started by trading Quarterback John Elway.

Broncoman13
01-03-2010, 08:24 PM
What does that mean?

Kuper is best suited for protections that involve a moving pocket. Similar to the ZBS but one where the OL can utilize speed and technique more than size and strength. Kyle Orton can't execute in that system (they tried) and thus the continual pound it up the middle approach and drop back passing we've seen.

Anyone seen Kupes Dad around here lately?

Florida_Bronco
01-03-2010, 08:27 PM
First I don't believe the rumors are true, and Josina Anderson is a Grade A C*** to begin with.

That said, who would he really clean house on? The people who don't fit his system have basically already been cleaned out.

frerottenextelway
01-03-2010, 08:28 PM
Kuper is best suited for protections that involve a moving pocket. Similar to the ZBS but one where the OL can utilize speed and technique more than size and strength. Kyle Orton can't execute in that system (they tried) and thus the continual pound it up the middle approach and drop back passing we've seen.

Anyone seen Kupes Dad around here lately?

Sucks. Gonna miss him around here.

Broncoman13
01-03-2010, 08:28 PM
It'd be akin to benching your best player the final week of your playoff run

BMarsh wasn't going to play either way. The only thing McD did wrong (in a major way) was take it to the media and make it about him having control. McD boned himself by making this about him. All eyes were on the Broncos to see how a team without the guys that didn't want to play for the Broncos would compete. There were countless jokes going around regarding the "Shanny guys" vs the "McD guys". The proof is in the pudding I guess. Down two of Shanny's guys and we play what has been described by y'all as uninspired football. McD made it so he'd have all eyes on him and it was an epic fail for him.

Broncoman13
01-03-2010, 08:29 PM
First I don't believe the rumors are true, and Josina Anderson is a Grade A C*** to begin with.

That said, who would he really clean house on? The people who don't fit his system have basically already been cleaned out.

Umm, do you think that everyone on the OL fits his system?

Captain 'Dre
01-03-2010, 08:30 PM
From the Josina thread, rumors are running rampant that McD wants to clean house with the rest of the "Shanahan" guys, and that we should cut him slack because he didn't have his guys to run his system.

Here's the confusing part:

If you didn't want any of the pre-existing players that had been impact players, why take the job at all?

Power? Greed? Ego? Stupidity?

Seriously... could be any of the above.

Florida_Bronco
01-03-2010, 08:31 PM
Kuper is best suited for protections that involve a moving pocket. Similar to the ZBS but one where the OL can utilize speed and technique more than size and strength. Kyle Orton can't execute in that system (they tried) and thus the continual pound it up the middle approach and drop back passing we've seen.

Anyone seen Kupes Dad around here lately?

Kupes dad is still around and as of just a couple days ago, posting pretty frequently. As far as Kuper fitting the scheme, he is also big and strong enough to play in McD's system. I doubt we have to worry about him leaving, especially given another strong performance from him this season.

24champ
01-03-2010, 08:32 PM
Control of an even worse off team...that makes sense.

Even McD would realize that you can't make massive, sweeping changes and expect to be given a long enough leash to do so. I mean, I really doubt he and Bowlen had a secret agreement where McD is allowed to purge the roster til he sees fit, even if it takes 5 years to field a competitive team.

You guys make it seem like he's out to cut the entire starting roster.

/rant


I disagree, they had an agreement. McDaniels signed with the Broncos because of Bowlen's history of giving Head Coaches not named Wade Phillips a long leash and control. It's clear that McDaniels has a specific plan for this team. He didn't change his offense because he wanted to see who fits and who doesn't. Otherwise what's the point of installing his offense?

I don't think we'll see a complete purge of the roster, but we'll see numerous changes. Players I definitely don't see McDaniels bringing back...Berger, Scheffler, Marshall, Weigmann, Hamilton. Lot more will follow these guys out the door.

Offense NEEDS an overhaul, we have draft picks, and maybe we get more if we deal Marshall (which at this point, I could care less if he goes or stays.)

Florida_Bronco
01-03-2010, 08:35 PM
Umm, do you think that everyone on the OL fits his system?

No. Hamilton is a horrible fit, but that much is obvious after this season. Wiegmann "fit" the system but he's just too long in the tooth to be a full time starter anymore. Clady, Kuper, Harris all fit though, and we have a decent starter in Hochstein and that Olsen kid coming up as well.

Florida_Bronco
01-03-2010, 08:35 PM
I disagree, they had an agreement. McDaniels signed with the Broncos because of Bowlen's history of giving Head Coaches not named Wade Phillips a long leash and control. It's clear that McDaniels has a specific plan for this team. He didn't change his offense because he wanted to see who fits and who doesn't. Otherwise what's the point of installing his offense?

I don't think we'll see a complete purge of the roster, but we'll see numerous changes. Players I definitely don't see McDaniels bringing back...Berger, Scheffler, Marshall, Weigmann, Hamilton. Lot more will follow these guys out the door.

Offense NEEDS an overhaul, we have draft picks, and maybe we get more if we deal Marshall (which at this point, I could care less if he goes or stays.)

Excellent take.

Broncoman13
01-03-2010, 08:41 PM
No. Hamilton is a horrible fit, but that much is obvious after this season. Wiegmann "fit" the system but he's just too long in the tooth to be a full time starter anymore. Clady, Kuper, Harris all fit though, and we have a decent starter in Hochstein and that Olsen kid coming up as well.

Hochstein was barely an upgrade... Olsen didn't dress for a single game did he?

WABronco
01-03-2010, 08:41 PM
I disagree, they had an agreement. McDaniels signed with the Broncos because of Bowlen's history of giving Head Coaches not named Wade Phillips a long leash and control. It's clear that McDaniels has a specific plan for this team. He didn't change his offense because he wanted to see who fits and who doesn't. Otherwise what's the point of installing his offense?

I don't think we'll see a complete purge of the roster, but we'll see numerous changes. Players I definitely don't see McDaniels bringing back...Berger, Scheffler, Marshall, Weigmann, Hamilton. Lot more will follow these guys out the door.

Offense NEEDS an overhaul, we have draft picks, and maybe we get more if we deal Marshall (which at this point, I could care less if he goes or stays.)

Well it's possible, it just would be extremely unlikely in today's NFL, seemingly. I just can't imagine an owner being comfortable with the potential downsides of a long-winded shift in direction.

At some point, though, McD is going to have to mesh his plan with some of the stalwarts on this roster (which, if you think about it actually, there won't be so many left after Marshall hits the road). I think the two OT's aren't going anywhere. The need for change on the interior OL is obvious.

I definitely see your point. I just don't know about an agreement, and if there is one whether it would be able to stand up to the potential strain of losing.

enjolras
01-03-2010, 08:43 PM
This team has had a leadership deficit since the day Elway left, and Shannahan had no idea how to fix it. McDaniels recognizes that players who grew into the NFL under Shannahan are, by and large, lacking in a certain mental toughness required to win consistently in the NFL.

The Patriots have it. The Steelers have it. Peyton Manning has it.

The Broncos don't.

He's going to fix it. Best thing to happen to this team in 10 years.

Boobs McGee
01-03-2010, 08:55 PM
this team has had a leadership deficit since the day elway left, and shannahan had no idea how to fix it. Mcdaniels recognizes that players who grew into the nfl under shannahan are, by and large, lacking in a certain mental toughness required to win consistently in the nfl.

The patriots have it. The steelers have it. Peyton manning has it.

The broncos don't.

He's going to fix it. Best thing to happen to this team in 10 years.

qfmft

kmartin575
01-03-2010, 09:00 PM
From the Josina thread, rumors are running rampant that McD wants to clean house with the rest of the "Shanahan" guys, and that we should cut him slack because he didn't have his guys to run his system.

Here's the confusing part:

If you didn't want any of the pre-existing players that had been impact players, why take the job at all?

Yep, kinda pisses me off when coaches come in and clean house of talented players just because they aren't "their" players.

Florida_Bronco
01-03-2010, 09:05 PM
Hochstein was barely an upgrade... I disagree agree. He's an average/adequate starter and I certainly want an upgrade, but he did much better than the corpse of Ben Hamilton.

Olsen didn't dress for a single game did he? He was dressed today, and I've seen him dressed several times throughout the year. Regardless, alot of first year linemen sit their first year, so I wouldn't say thats an indictment against him.

24champ
01-03-2010, 09:30 PM
I disagree agree. He's an average/adequate starter and I certainly want an upgrade, but he did much better than the corpse of Ben Hamilton.


My guess is he will stay for another year at least. Hochstein is backup material, he can play a variety of positions...not just guard.

extralife
01-03-2010, 09:38 PM
This team has had a leadership deficit since the day Elway left, and Shannahan had no idea how to fix it. McDaniels recognizes that players who grew into the NFL under Shannahan are, by and large, lacking in a certain mental toughness required to win consistently in the NFL.

The Patriots have it. The Steelers have it. Peyton Manning has it.

The Broncos don't.

He's going to fix it. Best thing to happen to this team in 10 years.

This is a made up term. It's something you point to when you want to talk out of your ass. And 2-8 to close a season sure as hell ain't it.

SportinOne
01-03-2010, 10:01 PM
To answer your question, I'll just sum it up in one word...control.

To answer further, look to your left and read from top to bottom.

That's been there since day one and it hasn't changed.

Hercules Rockefeller
01-03-2010, 10:18 PM
If you didn't want any of the pre-existing players that had been impact players, why take the job at all?

I think most of the league knew that Marshall was/is a ticking time bomb, but how many knew that Cutler was so mentally weak? How many would have thought Weigman would fall off the earth this year and Hamilton no longer had it? You can scout guys all you want by looking at film, but you obviously aren't going to have day-to-day contact with the players on another team to see how they practice, prepare in meetings, etc. Some of that stuff has to be seen first hand.

OBF1
01-03-2010, 10:48 PM
I have 1 question:

What kind of asshole biotch poster would quote Josina..... and then post her spewage on the mane??? Owner of a 2" prick I would imagine.

~Crash~
01-03-2010, 11:00 PM
Yep, few remember it in the glory days of the Superbowls that happened, but Mike Shanahan started by trading Quarterback John Elway.

LOL don't destroy his master piece of BS.

~Crash~
01-03-2010, 11:02 PM
I have 1 question:

What kind of a-hole biotch poster would quote Josina..... and then post her spewage on the mane??? Owner of a 2" prick I would imagine.

when we were at the HOF your wife was telling the crowd you had a 2" prick..so:welcome:

~Crash~
01-03-2010, 11:13 PM
I think most of the league knew that Marshall was/is a ticking time bomb, but how many knew that Cutler was so mentally weak? How many would have thought Weigman would fall off the earth this year and Hamilton no longer had it? You can scout guys all you want by looking at film, but you obviously aren't going to have day-to-day contact with the players on another team to see how they practice, prepare in meetings, etc. Some of that stuff has to be seen first hand.

you don't know what Josh said to Cutler ! I do know this as fact Josh kept Cuter waiting for an hour before cutler gave up and went to Tenn. that was the day he was trying to trade cutler . so I can see why he was pissed .

also add in what the Goodman's said to cutler as they got showed the door. and then what cutler kept saying was he would show up when mandatory but it would not be a need because he was going to be traded .

kupesdad
01-07-2010, 03:15 PM
Kuper is best suited for protections that involve a moving pocket. Similar to the ZBS but one where the OL can utilize speed and technique more than size and strength. Kyle Orton can't execute in that system (they tried) and thus the continual pound it up the middle approach and drop back passing we've seen.

Anyone seen Kupes Dad around here lately?

I'm here... skulking around... trying to recover from Sunday

Popps
01-07-2010, 03:50 PM
From the Josina thread, rumors are running rampant that McD wants to clean house with the rest of the "Shanahan" guys, and that we should cut him slack because he didn't have his guys to run his system.

Here's the confusing part:

If you didn't want any of the pre-existing players that had been impact players, why take the job at all?

Because it's not true.

Champ, DJ, Clady, Eddie and a host of others will return to starting and supporting roles next year.

So, it sounds confusing because it's bull****.


That said, see my Historical Facts thread for reference.... but Mike Shanahan turned over the roster to the same or even greater degree when he took over the team in 1995. That's new coach business as usual.

Paladin
01-07-2010, 04:02 PM
The McD haters and the Shanahan and Quitler widows have now morphed into the "Woe is us Crowd." Every rumor will be taken as gospel truth and will be duly reported on these pages with the appropraite tongue-clicking and juvenile epithets for McD.

Carry on. Good comedy ahead.....

OBF1
01-07-2010, 04:14 PM
Me thinks the Rev is playing with his lobster float device again.... Why would you post anything Hose-ina writes? Come on man you are better than this.

NYBronco
01-07-2010, 04:16 PM
It will be interesting to see how many of Shanahan's players McD releases will get picked up by Shanahan and in return see who Shanahan releases on the Redskin roster to make room for them.

uplink
01-07-2010, 04:39 PM
It will be interesting to see how many of Shanahan's players McD releases will get picked up by Shanahan and in return see who Shanahan releases on the Redskin roster to make room for them.

I could see: Stokley, Scheffler, Hillis
3 guys who McD should have played more this year!

Could see: Simms for personal reasons since Kyle is the OC

maybe: Kuper if released

maybe: Hamilton, Wieghman if don't retire

Welcome back to the NFL: Nate Jackson

Popps
01-07-2010, 05:12 PM
Again, there's no need for confusion. We've seen this kind of turnover before. Anyone remember where?

In 1994 - Denver went 7-9

Roster Turnover

From 1994 to 1995..

Offense: 6 of 11 starters replaced. (Over 50%)

Defense: 6 of 11 starters replaced (Over 50%)

Just a reminder that back in 1995, apparently Mike Shanahan wanted to go with his own guys, as well. Almost an identical number of starters turned over as we had this year.

(Denver went 8-8 in 95)

Yet... I don't seem to recall anyone calling him Mike ShanaHitler.

oubronco
01-07-2010, 05:15 PM
If it makes us better who gives a ****

Popps
01-07-2010, 05:17 PM
If it makes us better who gives a ****

That's officially my favorite post of yours.

Lev Vyvanse
01-07-2010, 05:57 PM
Again, there's no need for confusion. We've seen this kind of turnover before. Anyone remember where?

In 1994 - Denver went 7-9

Roster Turnover

From 1994 to 1995..

Offense: 6 of 11 starters replaced. (Over 50%)

Defense: 6 of 11 starters replaced (Over 50%)

Just a reminder that back in 1995, apparently Mike Shanahan wanted to go with his own guys, as well. Almost an identical number of starters turned over as we had this year.

(Denver went 8-8 in 95)

Yet... I don't seem to recall anyone calling him Mike ShanaHitler.

We should have let Ted Washington stay.

Lev Vyvanse
01-07-2010, 06:15 PM
ShanaHitler chased off Dennis Smith as well.

BroncoFiend
01-07-2010, 06:57 PM
So he had no other offers? You're saying we were the premier HC spot, and we hired the guy who no one else interested him? Simply not true. Please try again.

McD chose to come here because the Broncos were the premier HC spot last year, with an owner known to strongly support his team and his coaches.

That, and he probably figured he would have the job for more than just one year. With the amount to turnover every team experiences year in and year out, particualrly after a coaching change this is not exactly out of the ordinary behavior.

BroncoFiend
01-07-2010, 07:00 PM
It'd be akin to benching your best player the final week of your playoff run

Are you talking about the guy who said he was too injured to play?

BroncoMan4ever
01-07-2010, 11:40 PM
who really cares who is here and isn't here next season. as far as i am concerned after the KC beatdown, no ones job should be safe for next season, regardless of being a Shanahan or McD guy.

with that being said, every coach who takes over a team dumps holdover players he either does not like, do not fit his vision for the team or are distractions.

i hate hearing this crap about how he is so anti guys who were Shanahan guys. Doom was a Shanahan guy, Marshall, DJ, Clady, Harris, Kuper, Weigman, Hamilton, Peterson, Bailey, all of them Shanahan guys.

Each one of those guys not only was kept on the roster, but each one was an integral part of the team. the truth is he played the best players, and 10 of those best players were SHanahan guys. meaning up til the midway part of the season when the OL sucked and had to be retooled, he was trotting out a starting squad composed of guys who played under Shanahan.


so many bitch and moan about Hillis not starting that no one realizes maybe he just isn't better than those who have spots ahead of him. he looked like a god last season simply because after years of mediocrity at the RB position when we finally saw good play at the position we all became certain he was greatness before our eyes.

and the Royal notion someone will inevitably bring up, he had a sophomore slump and battled through some injuries. it was a down year for the guy. he will be back to form next season.

BroncoMan4ever
01-07-2010, 11:43 PM
McD chose to come here because the Broncos were the premier HC spot last year, with an owner known to strongly support his team and his coaches.

That, and he probably figured he would have the job for more than just one year. With the amount to turnover every team experiences year in and year out, particualrly after a coaching change this is not exactly out of the ordinary behavior.

exactly. on average every season teams change out as much as 40% of the roster every year. what difference does it make who last coached that player. if the new coach has no faith in that player for whatever reason, replace him with someone he trusts/

Popps
01-08-2010, 12:41 AM
Are you talking about the guy who said he was too injured to play?

Look, a lot of players hurt themselves jogging in practice right after being elected to the Pro Bowl in a contract year. Just a happy old coincidence.

Popps
01-08-2010, 12:43 AM
exactly. on average every season teams change out as much as 40% of the roster every year. what difference does it make who last coached that player. if the new coach has no faith in that player for whatever reason, replace him with someone he trusts/

Which is why we can wrap this thread up. It's not confusing, because the rumors are not true. Roster turnover is expected, and McDaniels had the exact same roster turnover as Shanahan in his first year.

Business as usual.

colonelbeef
01-08-2010, 06:11 AM
McD chose to come here because the Broncos were the premier HC spot last year, with an owner known to strongly support his team and his coaches.

That, and he probably figured he would have the job for more than just one year. With the amount to turnover every team experiences year in and year out, particualrly after a coaching change this is not exactly out of the ordinary behavior.

It is when you had an offense as young, under contract, and set as the offense was last year, and then you go and blow it up, then field the worst offense the Broncos have seen in 20 years to follow it up.

Travesty, and quite embarrassing.

colonelbeef
01-08-2010, 06:12 AM
Which is why we can wrap this thread up. It's not confusing, because the rumors are not true. Roster turnover is expected, and McDaniels had the exact same roster turnover as Shanahan in his first year.

Business as usual.

Unless, of course, every skill player and 3/5 of the line had been drafted in the last 3 years, all were under contract, and in place already.

Why are you such an apologist Poops? Can't you admit that this year was a failure in light of the offensive falloff?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-08-2010, 06:12 AM
Using anything that stupid attention whore writes as a jumping off point for discussion is absolute fail.

BroncoMan4ever
01-08-2010, 11:56 AM
Unless, of course, every skill player and 3/5 of the line had been drafted in the last 3 years, all were under contract, and in place already.

Why are you such an apologist Poops? Can't you admit that this year was a failure in light of the offensive falloff?

that is such crap. the 3/5 of the line you talk about Clady, Kuper and Harris, all not only began the season as starters but remained starters until the end or until injury ended their season.

what skill players are you talking about? Marshall was still used a ****oad until he decided he was done. Royal had a sophomore slump. Scheff wasn't exactly a focal point in the offense under Shanahan, so i don't see why everyone is so pissed that he might not be back. Cutler is the only skill player that could possibly be listed as a skill player that was dumped, but it wasn't exactly like we tossed aside an Elway or Manning. we got rid of a crybaby, sullen, emo bitch boy QB that couldn't handle the pressure when someone demanded him to get better

Popps
01-08-2010, 12:11 PM
It is when you had an offense as young, under contract, and set as the offense was last year.

Cutler: Disaster

Marshall: Was going to hold out if he didn't get big money, anyway.

"Offense was SET?"

Hilarious!

Couldn't run the ball, middle of the back at scoring, averaged less than this year's team after week 3 and turned the ball over constantly.

Yea, boy... we were sure "set" last year.

::)

bowtown
01-08-2010, 12:16 PM
that is such crap. the 3/5 of the line you talk about Clady, Kuper and Harris, all not only began the season as starters but remained starters until the end or until injury ended their season.

what skill players are you talking about? Marshall was still used a ****oad until he decided he was done. Royal had a sophomore slump. Scheff wasn't exactly a focal point in the offense under Shanahan, so i don't see why everyone is so pissed that he might not be back. Cutler is the only skill player that could possibly be listed as a skill player that was dumped, but it wasn't exactly like we tossed aside an Elway or Manning. we got rid of a crybaby, sullen, emo b**** boy QB that couldn't handle the pressure when someone demanded him to get better

Be careful what you say around colonbeef. When he says "every skill player" Culter is actually the only one he is talking about.

jhns
01-08-2010, 12:25 PM
I don't think it is that McDaniels just doesn't like Shannys guys. It is that McDaniels isn't the offensive guru he was made out to be. He has to get players that make his system go instead of fitting his system to his players. All great coaches adjust what they do to fit who they have. McDaniels simply isn't able to do this. It is why our line was a problem. It is also why Royal fell off(well that and not having a QB that can get him the ball). His choice in QB and his inability to use his players makes Shanahan guys, who were on offense, a lot less useful.

He has no problem with the good defensive players because Nolan is a good coach that can get the most out of who he has. Now the big question is can McDaniels can get the players he needs to run his system.

TailgateNut
01-08-2010, 12:26 PM
Come on man, he was asked to breathe cold air. What the **** is he suppose to do?

The "HORROR".:spit:

chex
01-08-2010, 12:33 PM
I don't think it is that McDaniels just doesn't like Shannys guys. It is that McDaniels isn't the offensive guru he was made out to be. He has to get players that make his system go instead of fitting his system to his players. All great coaches adjust what they do to fit who they have. McDaniels simply isn't able to do this. It is why our line was a problem. It is also why Royal fell off(well that and not having a QB that can get him the ball). His choice in QB and his inability to use his players makes Shanahan guys, who were on offense, a lot less useful.

He has no problem with the good defensive players because Nolan is a good coach that can get the most out of who he has. Now the big question is can McDaniels can get the players he needs to run his system.

All great coaches became great coaches because they believed in what they did and got the players to fit their system, not the other way around. Case in point: Jimmy Johnson. He took over a 3-13 Cowboys team and actually did worse than that the following year by going 1-15. Do I need to explain how that turned out?

Why would McDaniels come in here and run some other offense? Because they were a fit for Shanahan's system? Name me one head coach that came in and didn't do things his way. One.

azbroncfan
01-08-2010, 12:42 PM
Yep, few remember it in the glory days of the Superbowls that happened, but Mike Shanahan started by trading Quarterback John Elway.

Too bad MCD didn't have an Elway on the roster when he took over.

Popps
01-08-2010, 12:45 PM
I don't think it is that McDaniels just doesn't like Shannys guys. It is that McDaniels isn't the offensive guru he was made out to be. He has to get players that make his system go instead of fitting his system to his players. All great coaches adjust what they do to fit who they have. .

Riiiiight.

That's why Shanahan flipped over about 60% of the roster in his first season as head coach, so he could "adjust his offense to fit the players he had."

Flash forward two years to the Superbowl, and there was probably 80% turnover in starters. Maybe more.

Yea, he really adjusted his offense to fit the players he inherited, huh?

jhns
01-08-2010, 12:45 PM
All great coaches became great coaches because they believed in what they did and got the players to fit their system, not the other way around. Case in point: Jimmy Johnson. He took over a 3-13 Cowboys team and actually did worse than that the following year by going 1-15. Do I need to explain how that turned out?

Why would McDaniels come in here and run some other offense? Because they were a fit for Shanahan's system? Name me one head coach that came in and didn't do things his way. One.

Did Johnson have a bunch of players fall of the map? This isn't about record. This also isn't about using someone elses system. I said adjust HIS system to fit the players he has. Shanahan is a real offensive guru and has no problem in this area. In fact, I bet a lot of Washingtons offensive players actually get better under him. This doesn't mean the team suddenly will have no holes and win a bunch more.

TonyR
01-08-2010, 12:46 PM
Why would McDaniels come in here and run some other offense? Because they were a fit for Shanahan's system? Name me one head coach that came in and didn't do things his way. One.

Are you suggesting that Josh McDaniels should have made changes to a team that won one playoff game in ten years? Why that's just crazy talk!

TonyR
01-08-2010, 12:48 PM
Too bad MCD didn't have an Elway on the roster when he took over.

I was going to respond similarly but decided not to waste my time with someone stupid enough to make even a loose comparison of Jay Cutler to John Elway.

WolfpackGuy
01-08-2010, 12:50 PM
That Dallas team going into 1989 was a HORRIBLE team.

jhns
01-08-2010, 12:55 PM
Riiiiight.

That's why Shanahan flipped over about 60% of the roster in his first season as head coach, so he could "adjust his offense to fit the players he had."

Flash forward two years to the Superbowl, and there was probably 80% turnover in starters. Maybe more.

Yea, he really adjusted his offense to fit the players he inherited, huh?

Way to use an example that proves my point.

1) Shanahans offense was better than the one here the year before. I would say he adjusted to what he had quite well.

2) No good player suddenly fell off on offense.

3) I didn't say they shouldn't get their players, I said real offensive gurus get the best out of what they have. Maybe you think McDaniels put our o-line and players like Royal in a great position to succeed but I don't agree...

TonyR
01-08-2010, 12:57 PM
...i hate hearing this crap about how he is so anti guys who were Shanahan guys.

How dare Josh McDaniels get rid of Jamie Winborn, Marquand Manuel, Nate Webster, Dre Bly, Boss Bailey, Karl Paymah, John Engelberger, Marlon McCree, Dewayne Robertson, and Niko Koutouvides, to name a few! How DARE he!

chex
01-08-2010, 01:00 PM
Did Johnson have a bunch of players fall of the map? This isn't about record. This also isn't about using someone elses system. I said adjust HIS system to fit the players he has. Shanahan is a real offensive guru and has no problem in this area. In fact, I bet a lot of Washingtons offensive players actually get better under him. This doesn't mean the team suddenly will have no holes and win a bunch more.

Wrong again. Johnson came in, and ran HIS philosophy. Traded his best player and brought in guys that suited HIS philosophy. He didn't come in, look at the roster and say 'ok, let me run this type of system since I don't have guys to run mine.' Being a great coach means making YOUR system work, not continuing someone else's.Why would any coach do anything differently than what he believes in? McDaniels is doing what any coach would do. Just because the casualties are all former Shanahan players doesn't make it bad.

chex
01-08-2010, 01:01 PM
That Dallas team going into 1989 was a HORRIBLE team.

Yep they were 3-13. Can't do much worse than that, right? Or can you?

TonyR
01-08-2010, 01:03 PM
...real offensive gurus get the best out of what they have. Maybe you think McDaniels put our o-line and players like Royal in a great position to succeed but I don't agree...

I agree that all appearances suggest that Eddie Royal wasn't used effectively, and the same can probably said to a lesser extent about Scheffler and Hillis. But I also think the offensive line sucked at run blocking, for various reasons, and this held back the offense as much as anything. McD's biggest mistake may have been his expectations about this O-line in his system. I hope that's the first thing he fixes on this offense, and based on his comments I think it will be.

jhns
01-08-2010, 01:08 PM
Wrong again. Johnson came in, and ran HIS philosophy. Traded his best player and brought in guys that suited HIS philosophy. He didn't come in, look at the roster and say 'ok, let me run this type of system since I don't have guys to run mine.' Being a great coach means making YOUR system work, not continuing someone else's.Why would any coach do anything differently than what he believes in? McDaniels is doing what any coach would do. Just because the casualties are all former Shanahan players doesn't make it bad.

What are you reading? I have not said McD has to run someone elses system a single time. I never said he shouldn't get his players. Since this wasn't ever said, your responses do not make sense.

WolfpackGuy
01-08-2010, 01:14 PM
Yep they were 3-13. Can't do much worse than that, right? Or can you?

Well, it made sense in the Dallas at that time to take a step back to make a leap forward.

Johnson had no choice but to get rid of guys because a MAJORITY of the team sucked.

I don't think that was the case at the end of the Phillips and Shanahan regimes in Denver.

Merlin
01-08-2010, 01:16 PM
This team has had a leadership deficit since the day Elway left, and Shannahan had no idea how to fix it. McDaniels recognizes that players who grew into the NFL under Shannahan are, by and large, lacking in a certain mental toughness required to win consistently in the NFL.

The Patriots have it. The Steelers have it. Peyton Manning has it.

The Broncos don't.

He's going to fix it. Best thing to happen to this team in 10 years.
That is exactly what crossed my mind when Denver, with an inferior QB eliminated the SB Defending champs in the playoffs. Surely Denver was not the first team to beat the Bellicheat Patriots in the playoffs with their inferior leadership. That is why I always treat that game as fictional. The refs gave it to Denver. No incompetent, rudderless team would defeat the mightly defending SB Champs. Oh, and the unlucky bounces Denver had against Pitts in the conference final were all due to their utter lack of leadership and Pitts oozing of leadership. Nice, insightful post.

Merlin
01-08-2010, 02:22 PM
But I also think the offensive line sucked at run blocking, for various reasons, and this held back the offense as much as anything.
That OL was rated #1 in run blocking by football outsiders last yr. A worse OL than we had this yr has done better in previous yrs at run blocking, or have we forgotten the yr of Pears, wornout Lepsis, and the like? It was McD's plan to totally reconfigure this offense this yr, which sadly meant discarding some of its true strengths last yr, e.g. the OL. Although it can easily be argued he had to change the OL to adapt to our statute in the backfield, one must remember he purposely pursued Orton and the lesser draft picks over the Skins QB and better draft pick because he thought Orton was the better option.

Now Orton may be the better option, but he still is nothing better than mediocre without a power blocking line and great RB. Since he was going to have to rebuild that OL to match his needs, he might as well gone for Campbell and relied on his mobility while benefiting from the better draft picks. In the end, the final outcome would not have been much different for Denver, but at least we would have had better draft choices (now as to whether McD and Co would have used them wisely is another matter).

BroncoMan4ever
01-10-2010, 12:32 AM
What are you reading? I have not said McD has to run someone elses system a single time. I never said he shouldn't get his players. Since this wasn't ever said, your responses do not make sense.

you said that McDaniels and any other coach should change his system to fit the players he has. in order to fit the players he has, he would inevitably need to continue to run Shanahan's system.

the Johnson in Dallas early 90s example has been brought up. he came in and had his vision for what he wanted the team to be, and traded his best player, and in the process of a complete overhaul the team was worse the year after he took over than when he got there. but he continued his work in getting his players and implementing his system and we all know how that ended up working out.

why is McDaniels given so much **** for doing what coaches before him and coaches after him will all do? last offseason he unloaded the garbage that bogged down the franchise the last few years and began getting his system and his players in place. this offseason, he will continue his work of getting rid of the guys who don't have a place in his system and bring in guys who do.

every season on average, every team in the league will have a roster turnover of 40%. meaning on average every season 40% of every team is replaced with new players. for a rebuilding team that number goes up.

look at when Shanahan took over, he did exactly what McDaniels is doing and by the time of the super bowl runs the team was comprised of at least 80% players who were not in Denver before Shanahan came along.

Kaylore
01-10-2010, 07:47 AM
hey. Let's make up a rumor and then fly off the handle about it!

rofl!

baja
01-10-2010, 07:57 AM
Well then call this premature speculation.

IF it is the case, why take THIS job? Why not a different team with more patience, lower expectations, higher draft picks?

There isn't enough violence in the world that you need to sport that avatar?

Bad taste my man bad taste.

gunns
01-10-2010, 09:44 AM
This team has had a leadership deficit since the day Elway left, and Shannahan had no idea how to fix it. McDaniels recognizes that players who grew into the NFL under Shannahan are, by and large, lacking in a certain mental toughness required to win consistently in the NFL.

The Patriots have it. The Steelers have it. Peyton Manning has it.

The Broncos don't.

He's going to fix it. Best thing to happen to this team in 10 years.

:thumbsup:

I agree. It's been lacking since Elway left. Bringing Dawkins in was a step in the right direction, takes some pressure off Champ to handle it himself on the defense. The offense has had no one, the QB's have had their "emotional" problems, the running game went to ****, the OL has been haphazard. I look forward to the changes McD makes. There is only one player that would disappoint me if McD let him go and that's Clady.